Hello and welcome to Hospitality Maverick Podcast. I'm Michael, the founder of Hospitality Mavericks. We are in a mission to inspire leaders and entrepreneurs in the hospitality industry to create profitable and heart-centered businesses from the inside out. The kind, the both employees and customers of love and support. We are extremely excited to bring you our very first podcast. In true Hospitality Maverick fashion, we thought it would be only right to kick
it off with a prime example of a Hospitality Maverick. Griff Holland, for those who don't know, Griff is one of the co-founders of Friska, a healthy fast food restaurant offering seasonal, ethical, sourced, fresh food to eat in, take away or fuel your entire office with. Griff and his co-founder Ed were awarded the 2014 Best Edicle Restaurant by the Guardian for their unique approach to doing business. So where's Friska's activities are responsible
for igniting such recognition? And maybe the founder's decision to run their sites entirely off the noble entity could be their commitment to funding entrepreneurs in developing countries? Or maybe their lean supply chain would strengthen local economies by enabling fresh food to be sourced with minimal environmental impact. We reached out to Griff to talk about Friska and the current industry themes, challenges and predictions for the future.
Welcome Griff, let's shut your hat here at Hospitality Mavericks. Hi Michael, great to be here. Well, let's kick off with you telling me a bit about Friska, what you're about, where you at and how you got there. Sure, sure. Incredibly, this sort
of story began when I was 16 years old. I'm a bit older than 16 now, I'm 34. But the idea for Friska came on a family holiday to California and I just remember being completely bold over by the abundance of fresh and interesting food and by the warmth of Hospitality that I came across when I went to places. I remember one example specifically, my dad is incredibly tight-fisted and I don't think he actually likes food. But we went to this restaurant and
there was a way to call Joey. After 10 minutes with Joey, my dad was ordering three courses, cocktails, he even ordered a dessert and I was just amazed. I was amazed of the power of Hospitality really, how it made you feel when you received really great hospitality. I was 16 at the time, went to university, graduated in economics and international development,
but I just kept on feeling pulled towards this food thing, this Hospitality thing. And so after graduating, I did a bit of travelling around India, Vietnam, Thailand and I was just spending too much time doing market research on menus and different foods from around the world. I must have been the most boring backpacker in the world because every time I met a group of bright young things, I'll ask them where they went for lunch back home and
then what they thought of my logo. So it became a bit of an obsession really and until I just thought this is mad, you're in Thailand, you should be getting up to goodness nose what and actually all you're doing is spending your time in food courts talking to people about lunch. So I flew back to the UK, decided Bristol would be the place to start Frisker,
which was then actually called Crunch Food. It was more of a salad bar concept and moved to Bristol and that sort of where the story began, it was a bit of a rocky road to start with, it ended up with me going to courts, but it was a proper property that related thing, nothing to do with anything else. But actually that was the best bit of bad luck that will likely ever happen to me because the offer by original food business was actually
for the UK. Well a cold salad bar offer in a country which is reasonably cold is probably not the best. It was in the wrong part of town, but crucially I hadn't met my business partner
at this point. I should have because we went to the same university, graduated in the same year from the same course, but either being incredibly studious or perhaps very anti-social, I'm not sure which one, but we never met each other at university until one evening when we met at a business networking event and we really hit it off, his name's Ed and at the time he was working on a tech idea which wasn't sort of coming to life as it were. It was
a great idea but it just wasn't happening. So after about three months of getting to know each other, I said do you want to read my business plan? Do you want to have a look at this food thing that I've been cooking at? And he read it, he could understand the market, he could understand the vision and we decided to go into business together. So yeah that was back in 2009 on Victoria Street in Bristol. Wow that's a quite exciting journey. You're
all about doing the right thing you talk about a lot. So can you tell us a bit more about doing the right thing? You are funding, inter-renewers in developing countries, you are running your sites on renewable energy, etc etc. What is that all about and where that come from? I think one of the reasons that Ed and I started a business and wanted to create and grow something was this idea that we wanted to be really proud of what we did, who we did
it with and how we did it. So this idea of feeling proud of what you do every day was core to us as entrepreneurs as it were. And if those are your sort of personal values, I think you can't leave those at the door when you go to work in the morning otherwise
you become really sad and unfulfilled and unhappy. We always wanted to align our personal values with how we did business and that sort of influenced greatly this idea or a strapline of feel good food which now quite annoyingly I see everywhere, everyone's feel good something or other. But at the time I didn't know many places that had feel good food as a strapline,
but it goes beyond the food. If we start with the food, one of the most important things, possibly the most important thing is how it looks and how it tastes because if that's not there then nothing else matters. But once you get beyond that we think it's really important to feel good about how it's sourced, where it's produced, if it's a dish containing meat, are the animals responsibly reared? Quality is something that sort of underpins everything
that we do as well. So we don't want to be selling sandwiches or breakfast muffins or things with bread that are full of preservatives and aren't made to a high quality standard. That's on the product side but then it goes beyond that because I feel that businesses, without sounding too cheesy, actually businesses change the world and they can change the world for the better or for the worse. And I don't know many people that would deliberately
set out to change the world for the worse. But if you're not mindful of your actions and you don't build it into your business DNA, then it can quite easily be a slippery slope. So there are a number of things that we've done since day one which we feel underpin and strengthen this idea of a feel good company that makes feel good food and feel good coffee, but really it's a feel good company that we're building within the hospitality sector.
So that may be the energy that we buy, wherever we get to choose the energy supplier which isn't in every site, but sometimes it comes with the building as it were. But when we get to choose the energy supplier, we choose to go 100% renewable. I've touched on the provenance of quality animal husbandry of the produce and the meat that we buy. The beans we source, for example, I'm really proud to say that we source them from speciality, high quality,
responsible coffee funds at the moment in Brazil. Again, you know, something that we feel proud to associate ourselves with, you know, even if our mums, what to say, tell me about this part of your business, we'll do so with the real sense of pride. And then there are other things that we do which I hope go above and beyond the core business and how we operate within ourselves and actually have a small impact on the broader world. So
you've touched on the Deque partnership. We started that three and a half years ago, think it's three and a half, three and a half, four years this year actually. And that is funded through the sale of our Vietnamese phone noodles. And effectively, we donate 10 P per phone noodles we sell. And that goes towards microfinance charity called Deque based in Bristol, who fund, you know, small business loans to budding entrepreneurs
in sub-Saharan Africa. And that's amazing. I mean, over the past four years, we funded over 300 entrepreneurs with small business loans that, you know, in a small way, genuinely changed their life and improved it as well as people they employ and their children. Likewise, we've got a similar partnership with Frank Water. So whenever we sell a bottle of mineral water, which is a crazy concept in the UK, I fully admit, you know, we've
got perfectly clean tap water, which we offer for free. But if a customer chooses to buy mineral water from us, then 10 P goes towards Frank Water. And last year, we donated over £6,000 to Frank Water. And that fully funded a clean drinking water facility in rural India. So again, these are sort of, I don't want to go on about it in our stores or, you know, have too much focus on it online because it becomes a bit preachy or worthy. And it
feels like people are doing it just for the CSR side. But these are real people that actually now have got access to clean drinking water because we're trading and it's something that we're really proud of. I'm starting to waffle and I do waffle a lot. So just cut me short if I start to go on. But hopefully that gives you a good idea of the sort of values and the ethos that underpins frisker and what we do. Well, we really love it. So we think it's the right way of approaching business grip.
So you're opening 2009 dimension, you're your first unit and now you have nine units and you have more to come. You mentioned to me. So what is the plan for the next couple of years is growing the business or are you at a level now where you think that's the right place to be? Is there big expansion plans? Definitely, definitely. I don't belong to the school of thought that says big business is bad and bad and small is beautiful. I understand
why small is beautiful. But I think that actually if you're doing something great, the bigger the better. The challenge then becomes about staying true to your values and your your principles. But actually if you're founded on good things, good values, good products, good approach to life and people, then I say let's have it and let's go as big as possible.
Good example of that would be Patagonia. It seems now you can't walk down any high street without someone wearing a Patagonia puffer jacket or a Patagonia waterproof jacket. So they've grown into a massive global company with turnover far bigger than us, but they've stayed true to their values. In fact, they've probably strengthened them by having bigger impact on the issues that are important to them. So we've never shied away from saying
that we want to be big. We really want to be the most loved quick service food chain in the UK. So that doesn't necessarily mean we'll be the biggest because you know, Bretta Mongey have been going since 86, 87 a long time since I was a toddler when Pret started. So they've been going a long time and they've had a long time to refine their model and and being incredibly successful. So I wouldn't set out to say, oh, we're going
to be bigger than Pret in the next five years because frankly, we're not. It takes a long time to build a big business. So we sort of see our future being, well, focusing this year on Manchester and then really looking for the next city to focus and cluster on. It might be redding, it might be leads, it might even be London. But in the next few years, we'd really love to get to 50 stores throughout the UK and yet be recognised as the most
loved brand in our sector. And I say loved both by customers, but just as important to me and it has been since day one is loved by the people that I work with because I feel I believe that the brand within our sector is the team. You know, the brand isn't a logo,
the brand isn't a typeface, the brand isn't really even a menu because menus change. So I feel that the brand is the culture and the people that you attract and hopefully keep to work with you and make your sort of dream a reality and hopefully it becomes you know, their sort of professional dream and ambition as well. Anyway, I've gone off on a bit of a tangent there, but hopefully you understand sort of
what our plans are over the next few years. It's definitely to grow. Manchester is the focus certainly for this year, possibly for next year as well and then and then look out possibly London. We hope to be growing and growing a really great, great food place.
So you mentioned when you talked about your growth and your scaling of your nine business and it's that being true to your vision, values and culture, how do you make sure in Frisker that you stay true to those as you scale up because that's probably a challenge many people out there can recognize when they grow their businesses. Yeah, absolutely. And it's a challenge and I haven't got it right and every day it will
be a challenge eight years ago. Frankly, we weren't serving many people at all. We were serving our parents when they came in to support the business a couple of times a month, maybe some friends and other family and a few customers on the street because for the first 18 months, business was tough. We didn't really have a business, not many customers at all. And so the way we did things then was very different and has to be very different
to the way we do things now. You know, the sort of systems and processes that we had when we started were there, but they weren't sort of ingrained in a standard operating procedure manual. They happened because they happened because someone saw me do it. I showed them how to do it. I explained why I did it and then they did it. And if they had a better idea than I did, then I'll do it their way. Now you can't grow and scale a business that way
because it will just be absolute chaos. So you need to have one version of the truth. Now that truth can be questioned, I would say, because if you don't seek or improve, you stagnate and get worse. But one of the big things as you're scaling is to have one version of the truth, one version of reality, one way of doing things and making it clear to your colleagues why you do it a certain way. Because if everyone's clear on how things
work and why they work that way, then things work well. But if everyone does things differently, then chaos ensues. And that certainly isn't a great place to work because it's stressful, it's confused, you know, from a customer's point of view, it's inconsistent and all these
things. So I think that's ultimately the big challenge of scaling. It's about understanding all of the systems and processes that underpin what you do and how you do it and then trying to codify it in a way which people understand and can easily follow, but then trying to create a culture where people seek to improve the existing ways of doing things.
So coming through now, you have big plans for the future. What challenges do you expect to hit while you are trying to scale your business now over the next couple of years compared to what's going on in the industry right now? A lot of people talking about the perfect storm is here. We hit by a number of challenges in the industry. What is your view on that situation? Yeah. I think it's too easy to blame Brexit. I think it's too easy to blame
the outside world when things go wrong. And things have gone wrong at Frisker. We had to close one of our stores in Brindley Place at the start of the year. Emotionally, that was a very difficult thing to say goodbye to a team that we've been working with. Financially, it was a big thing because we spent a lot of money over the two years initially in the setup phase and then trying to support it to grow. But the reasons we clode it
have nothing to do with Brexit. It had nothing to do with the macroeconomic situation. It was a secondary site which if you are an established brand is absolutely fine because it's like shining a Batman symbol up into the air. People will know what it means and they will look, seek it out. But if you are a new brand or a challenge of brand in a new city where no one knows you, then it's kind of like starting a new business every time
you open. The fact that we've got seven stops in Bristol, the fact that we are a profitable site within the first month when we open in Bristol doesn't have any bearing at all when we open in Manchester or when we open in Birmingham. Because why should it? We haven't created a brand with that kind of halo effect around it. So I think it is a challenging situation. Things like business rates are undoubtedly a burden for business owners.
Definitely. I question the whole VAT thing about hot food to go. Now I understand it's a really important source of revenue but it doesn't really make much sense to me why something hot to go is vatable and something cold to go isn't. But that's a separate subject. Brexit is going to be a big issue. I'm sure if we can't attract good, ambitious people from Europe that want to start a new life in the UK and hospitality is a great industry
to start a new career in a new country. Then undoubtedly the labour side and recruitment is going to be massively challenged. But I would argue all of those things are surmountable. You can only focus on the things that you can influence. There's no point worrying about things outside your sphere of influence. Because you can't do anything about it. So I could be worrying about Brexit. I could be worrying about, I'm mindful of it but I'm
not worrying about it. I'm just trying to think how can we create the best employer brand we can within hospitality to attract and retain the best people? How can I keep innovating on the food side to keep our customers interested and engaged? And I think if you just focus on the fundamentals of your business, you'll be okay. You might not be okay every time. And I'm not the most experienced guy. I'm only 34. I've only done this, you know, frisker
that frisker is the only business I know. But that's certainly my perspective. We started frisker eight years ago, post-Leamon in the world's biggest financial crisis since goodness knows when. And yes, it was tough. But we made it work through trial and error and trial again. So I, yeah, I'm reasonably, I'm an optimistic guy anyway. So there will be casual teas when, you know, you've got systemic changes in the economy. And that doesn't make it
any easier for those guys that are casual teas. But I certainly don't feel that the UK hospitality scene is going to shrivel into nothing and regress back to the 1970s where coffee was served in a, you know, a Styrofoam cup and the only option at lunchtime was a ham and cheese sandwich. I certainly don't think that's the way it's going to go. Yeah, I might be hoping, I am hopelessly naive though. So I might be totally wrong and doomed to failure. But, but that's the way I see it.
Well, I don't think you're far, far off the target, I think, on my point of view as well. And another thing we just wanted shortly to touch on is technology. A lot of people talked about that this secret ingredients for the injury of your hospitality business have to help you through this perfect storm and will help you be more productive and so on. Do you see that have any threat to the humanist in hospitality? No, why? This hospitality is about how you make someone feel.
A robot can't make someone feel, well, not yet anyway, I'm sure there'll be robots in the future that make us feel things. I don't, I just don't think that that's what hospitality is about. It's not about a utility. People don't come to Frisca to stop feeling hungry. Well, that's not the only reason they come to Frisca. Yes, they're hungry at lunchtime and they come to Frisca to eat.
But they also come to Frisca because of Eugene, the manager at the eye who knows his customers by name and gives them hugs on their birthday or fannie up at Park Street who brings you know such energy to the day and you know brings a smile to our customers faces in the morning half seven in the morning when they're probably rather being bad and I don't feel that a robot will do that. What a robot can do or computers and AI is allow you perhaps to better understand your
customers and therefore be better, more effective on your menu. It might allow you to understand trends better and get insight into the data. Now undoubtedly there is you know certain industries will be a threat from robots. When I go through a drive-through, I'm not going through a drive-through for hospitality. I'm going through a drive-through because it's probably 10 o'clock at night. I'm
driving back from Manchester and I just need a quick fix you know a drive-through does that. So possibly where hospitality isn't as much in focus and it's more about pure service and delivery of you know products then I can see that jobs will be at risk but within the space that I feel friscus it I feel quite confident that humans humans will prevail we're not a terminated teacher
yet. Great, great, thank you for that little insight of technology. Before we finish off I always ask one question in the end so if you could get one advise only to somebody starting out during today to build a food business what would that be from the experience you have collected over the
years? It sounds a bit like I'm jumping on a bandwagon it sounds like I'm just saying what everyone else says but I feel that culture is the foundation of everything within a business and it's quite kind of neat to sort of think of it like a culture in a yoga you know if you get the culture right
you make yoga but if you get the culture wrong I don't know what you make because I'm not a chemist but you certainly don't get a yoga that's nice to eat and I think that it's a similar thing in life you know similar thing in a family if you've got the right culture in a family you can have a
nice happy family most of the time. If you get the culture right in a business then I think that that is what sets a business up for growth for reaching its ambition and that ambition doesn't have to be tied to scaling its ambition might be the best single cocky shop in a town but I think
it all comes back to culture and there's a book I read by the CEO of Zapos and he said something along the lines of culture being the leading indicator of a brand so you don't go to a graphic designer or a brand consultant say this is what we want to be this is who we're going to appeal to
we're going to appeal to ABC ones young hipsters no the brand the real brand the essence of a brand and what you do and how you do it all of that on a sustainable basis stems from the culture that you nurture within your business and you can't fake it either if I was an absolute I don't know
maybe some of my colleagues think I have an asshole but if I talk like this on a podcast and then I said goodbye to you guys and then turn into a totally different you know creature for my colleagues it would be fake and customers would feel that when they came into their stores
because people wouldn't feel engaged and brought into what Frisk is all about now I'm not suggesting that we get it right every time and we've still got a long way to go and we need to make our culture better and stronger and make more frisky wogging as it were but I really feel
the culture is the thing that defines what a business cat is and can be in the future thank you for that we love it thank you very much thank you for your time today it's been an absolute pleasure joining you really happy to talk that's all we have time for today thank you to
Griff Friskka for telling us about your journey and thoughts on the industry today's hospitality memory podcast with me Michael Sincere tune in next time for another industry into you and in the now more about us at hospitalitymarics.com thanks for listening