The Lost Episode

If this picture doesn't make you scream and squirt, you'd better see a psychiatrist. Welcome to Horror Movie Podcast, where we're dead serious about horror movies. This is a versus episode where we will be discussing Wicker Man 1973, Wicker Man 2006, and Midsommar. 2019 this episode of horror movie podcast is brought to you by shutter the netflix for horror

To try Shudder free for 30 days, go to Shudder.com and use the promo code HMP. That's S-H-U-D-D-E-R.com and promo code HMP. On horror movie podcasts, you get in-depth horror movie reviews and discussions of classic films. films and new releases to help you decide whether you should buy rent or avoid these movies i am the wolfman and my our illustrious horror hosts joining us today as usual are

Dave, Dr. Schock Becker from just outside Philadelphia, PA. And Gilman Joel Robertson lurking at the edge of the green swamps of Central Florida.

And we are joined by a very special guest today. This is someone who has been a supporter of the show from, as far as I know, from the beginning. And we've... played some little bumpers with his guests at the beginning of shows occasionally, and he's been on the show by way of voicemail, and he did an episode with Joel separately, but this is the first time Hey.

I just kind of find myself now like walking around in a museum, hands behind my back, looking at all the fine stuff and the inner sanctums of HMP. So, no, I am happy to be here for this pagan folk horror thingy. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I did wonder, like, should we do this as a as a full core episode themed episode? And ultimately.

I didn't prepare quite enough for that. So I think I'm kind of thinking of it as more of as a, just a wicker man versus episode, but I, but obviously we can't help but touch on paganism, full core. cult, horror, you know, it's all part of the discussion here. And Peter is the world's top expert in pagan rituals from the North, the Norse region. Right, Peter? that's right wow is this where i just hang up even if he's not who the hell's gonna know yeah just pretend there is that

Listen, most of our listeners that are in the United States, they have no idea about the rest of the world. So whatever you say, you could just make it up as you go. I can say that applies to me for sure. Yeah, I was just going there because Joel still says I'm Swedish when I'm not. I will say this before we get rolling here. It is a pleasure to finally get to talk to you, Mr. Nielsen.

I mean, honestly, yeah, we've never talked before years and years and years, but not on HMP. Yeah, that's true. To be fair, to be fair. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if I'm in the indicator of what the American public school system has put out, I'm sorry to everyone in advance. No, You're the teacher, man. I used to be, not anymore. So you mean you forget stuff? Yes. Ah, okay.

So people who especially are Retro Movie Geek listeners are definitely familiar with Peter, but for those who aren't Peter, maybe could just give a little bit of your background so people can get to know you a bit before we jump into the show. Let's see. I was spawned from Mother Earth about two or three thousand years ago. And no, I mean, wow. What do you guys want to know?

Tell us your heritage that relates to this show. Tell us your podcasting and blogging background in brief. You didn't actually start following HMP till episode two, right? well technically no i yeah i think it was a couple episodes in uh when i found you guys and then i went back to episode one And I listened through every one of those. And then I got to the eight-hour episode. And that took a week. Because I didn't want to take an eight-hour walk. And then...

I've been writing on when Joel and Jason did Forgotten Flicks. Oh, what do we call them? The Peter's Retro Reviews, I think. I think we're very creative with the title. Yes. Yeah, yeah, we were. I think we tried to change it for one bit and we... No, confusing. So I did that for a bit, and then I was a guest there for a couple of times, and then Jason quit, and things stopped for a while.

Joel came up with the fantastic title, Forgotten Flakes Remembers, which is actually kind of cool. Again, real creative. Yeah, and that kind of morphed into Retro Movie Geek, and that's where we are today. As far as my podcasting thing, that's, wow, what is that, 10 years? Something like that. Wow. That's some serious business. And you're also, of course, doing the Terror on the Tube with Allison and Joel as well. Yep. It's a fantastic show. Aw.

So you're killing it. Tell us about the Great White North. That's not the Great White North. That's Canada. No. Right now, the sun's out, but it's been raining all day. I was born many many many many years ago in Denmark and we later moved to Sweden and I have been here ever since. What age did you move to Sweden? Oh, God. How old was I? I think it was six. Six. Yeah. Click.

I am actually thinking of moving back. We are looking at when things open up again. We'll see what happens. That's exciting. But in my heart, I bleed red and white like the flag. Did you retain your Danish in Sweden? Yeah. I'm not even a Swedish citizen. Well, yeah, but if you're going to school from the age of six, then you, I just assume, sometimes it's hard. Yeah, I get what you mean. I am fluent in both Danish and Swedish, as well as in English.

I keep up with it. I mean, I watch Danish movies, I read Danish books, and I speak Danish. So, yeah. It's all there. Peter, can I ask you a quick question? Yes, sir. Do you eat Danish? Yeah. Although it's been harder now because the borders have been closed because of the pandemic. There's not a lot of Danish food items left here. Oh, I just meant the pastry. The pastry, right. Oh, okay. Sure, Mr. Teacher. Peter, I'm not...

One of the great things about having Peter on, it's the only time I'm actually podcasting with somebody who's a little bit older than myself. Normally, I'm the old man. Wow. That's hilarious. Oh, my God. Well, there is that. Not by much, not by much, I think a year or something. Yeah, I was born in 68. Yep, 69 here, so yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, 68 was a good year, I think, I think, not sure.

Well, we are super glad to have Peter. I was joking earlier. He does not consider himself necessarily an expert on pagan ritual. But yeah, he did send us... kindly a couple of articles midsummer in Denmark and Sweden so I'm actually you know I'm obviously not from that part of the world but I do sympathize with you a little bit Peter because I lived in the Netherlands for several years and everyone's

thinks that's Denmark for some reason. The Dutch Danish think... Joel did. It was Joel. It was always me. It's always me. It happens a lot. Yeah, it does. So anyway, it's over here in Europe. Yeah. So we will jump right into it. Our beginning with Wicker Man 1973. And that is part of our shutter sponsored screaming online segment. So apologies guys. I have to read this copy really quick.

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You have unlimited access to stream ad free on all of your favorite devices, including Apple devices, Android devices, Xbox, Amazon Fire, Google Chromecast, Roku, and more. And we are super excited to talk about one of these films, which was one that I've been giving Joel a hard time about for a long time for having not seen. And that is the classic folk horror film, The Wicker Man.

From 1973. Take it away, Joel. All right. So the Wicker Man. Yes, indeed. This is the one that this is one of those where Wolfman, I will admit it now. When we weren't recording, he actually said he's looking into actually having my horror geek card revoked. He was like, you haven't seen the Wicker Man and you call yourself a horror fan. Uh, yes, I have never, this is one, this is, this was on that list. You know, there's that list.

that we all have as movie geeks in general, but specifically horror geeks, where, because you always have those areas, and I know you guys have talked about this a lot, where you're really strong in that area, right? You've seen a lot of slashers, you've seen a lot of vampire, you've seen a lot of whatever, or in my case, tiny.

terror goofy you know doesn't make any sense kind of movies uh but there's those other ones that you know are looked at widely as the classics of the genre And I would always argue this is more of a true cult classic because I feel like a lot of people in a mainstream sense wouldn't necessarily, they might have heard of this movie, but I don't know that it's...

as known as obviously other ones but that being said as a horror fan i don't i think in europe that might not definitely be the case it may be more so in the united states yes and again this is a major european i would be sad If people only knew the new one.

We'll get there. Don't get, don't get ahead of us. But yeah, that's, you know, that ultimately is, that's truly true. And as we established at the beginning, based on my, you know, public school education here in the States, I make certain assumptions. Well, it's just one of the most major releases from,

yes yeah and and uh so let me just real quick to read the imdb synopsis which is very short a puritan police sergeant arrives in a scottish island village in search of a missing girl whom the locals claim never Now, this was directed by Robin Hardy, whose name is familiar to me, but probably only because of things I've read. about the Wicker Man because he honestly does not have very many credits.

um three yeah three features yeah three three features as a director um and uh including one which i guess we might touch on briefly later which might be i guess kind of a sequel to the wicker man 73 uh but uh yeah here's all i'll say right off the bat because especially as i know what a what a fan everybody i believe that is on this particular episode is of this movie

I went into this movie. I don't want to say with the expectations because I didn't really know. I knew enough about it. Mainly that last shot. I've seen the fire and, you know, I don't want to give anything away. I'll just say there's a fire and.

I knew enough about it. I knew it was about a cult. I knew some of those kind of key beats. I knew Christopher Lee was in it. I just didn't, I think, get what a wonderfully... concise tight just well executed examination of opposing belief systems this movie would be like it was Awesome. Like I'm not going to lie. I will let the cat out of the bag thought it was fan.

it falls into the category now for me of death proof which I just we won't go down this road but I finally watched that one I think I may have mentioned that to you guys already after so many years and I'm like what is wrong with me why did I wait so It's one of those movies for me where it was just...

I love that the main character, Edward Woodward, which the whole time, by the way, I'm watching go, why do I know that dude? What is it? It's face. I'm like equalizer. Yes. Yes. I remember that from being a kid. I'm like, Oh my God. It's equalizer. And, and so, he's so good because let's let's be honest i mean he's now is he supposed to be catholic or did they ever say what his actual

Christian. I just took it as devoutly Christian. Yes, I got that. I don't know. It could have been Church of England. I was just a Christian. Okay, okay. Very, very strong. The IMDb synopsis is Puritan. I don't know if – is that a specific religion? No, not really. It's you just remaining like very – Well, you know, going back to – I mean if this was like during the days of the British Civil – the English Civil War. Yes, then maybe. That would – Oliver Cromwell was a Puritan.

But he definitely has that Puritan mentality. Yes. Whatever religion he is, he has that same sort of mentality. And I think what's really fascinating, too, because I feel like this is definitely a movie that you also have to watch considering the context of when it was made. is very of its time you're talking about the sexual evolution is you know really kind of ongoing and you can argue you know really in full force at this point in english movie as a british movie the 60s were kind of uh

I don't know what you want to call it. They started to kind of go into exploring the sexuality in the 70s. And so there's a lot in the 70s, there's a lot of nudity in the movies and sexuality, but that weren't really in the 60s. So I think that kind of plays into it too. And I think that the way he reacts to everything, I think...

And I will get I'm sure we'll get into this when we talk about the 2006 version. The reason why this movie works so well as of being this encapsulation of its time is there really is this. interesting dividing line between the cultures at the time with the counterculture and the, and the more traditional sort of viewpoint of everything. And I mean, I feel like Edward Woodward's character, Sergeant Howie, that he.

is more of the extreme on that traditional side, because I got to imagine there's still people who are, you know, devout and Christian who would not necessarily have been quite as uptight as he is. However, I think coming to that... I mean, he kind of was... I mean, you saw him giving... I don't know which... I have the director's cut. I'm not sure. I have seen the theatrical cut ages ago, so I don't remember. But you see a scene of him kind of... giving a sermon or preaching.

So I mean, so I'm sure he's involved with the church a little bit more than your average churchgoer. He's not just a parishioner. He's he may actually know. Exactly. All right. So. Yeah. But what I liked, though, was that his his performance.

as much of I guess we'll just you know let's say a stick in the mud as he kind of comes across as being under the circumstances of what he's presented with on this island uh it's like you know i'm look i don't consider myself to be a love man okay i get that i don't consider myself to be a prude far from it but i gotta admit if i if i rolled up out of a tavern and i saw that in

a field in the middle. I'd be like, whoa, what is happening? Three seconds later, Peter's naked and rolling. No, I'm not.

But yeah, so anyway, the thing is, is that the way his character reacts, like the whole, was it the landlord's daughter, that whole sequence? You know, he's constantly- He's appalled. He's appalled, but he's also- profoundly tempted right you definitely get the sense oh yes that the temptation is constant with him and they're doing it on purpose but what i loved about this version let's just say this this movie was how the people are

in it at the beginning because they're just so very you know salt of the earth sweet oh yeah there's even though they're obviously cut off from the main society there's just this sense of just i don't know they they seem oddly welcoming but not in this just that

cliche, culty, creepy kind of way. Like, I think if you went into this movie at the very beginning and didn't know what it was, like you didn't know it was a quote unquote cult movie. Yeah, I think... I mean, they're welcoming because of what transpires later, but he's still an outsider and he's a police officer meddling in their affairs, but they're still welcoming because…

off what I don't know how far into the spoilers we're going to get. But you know what? I mean, they welcome him in a certain sense. I think let's do this. Let's do a non-spoiler discussion. for the films, and then we can maybe do a spoiler discussion where we compare all of them at the end. That's fair. If we want to. Yeah, that's a good idea. I like that. Good idea. Yeah, because I think that...

the way they set everything up and which by the way, being that a good portion of my lineage is Scottish, you know, the name's Robertson. Um, I, I didn't have any, I had no idea this took place on a, like a Scottish Island. So I was like, Hey, my people, wait a minute. He actually texted that to me. Oh, this is about my people. He texted us as well. I know, I did. I texted all of you. I sent it to everybody. I was like, oh, my people. Uh-oh. And I did.

Then, as I do now, just slowly shaking my head. All right. So if I what I liked is I. Got the sense, and I obviously do not know everything there is to know about how policing works in the UK and specifically in that area and specifically at that time. However... I felt like it made sense that he, he,

Didn't necessarily have total jurisdiction, but obviously the laws there might be different than say they are over here where let's just say it again. Well, I'm sure get into this when we discuss it in other versions. The character has no jurisdiction whatsoever. That's no business doing anything that they're doing. Whereas this one. I just thought of Robin Williams' classic joke in Britain where the police officers don't have guns. So they stop or I'll say stop again. laughter laughter

Yeah, but anyway, but my point being is that I just I really loved that juxtaposition because obviously he is devout and in his belief system. And so are they. And the fact that you have. that clashing of the cultures and it's all there and it's like i said got this uh very just all this interesting elements that are so indicative of the time and it was also i thought beautifully shot i love the way it looks uh so yes i really really enjoyed this movie

I love the creepiness of this movie as it's kind of unfolding, you know, and he's, he's looking for this girl. And I think immediately that's such a creepy idea that this community is covering up the disappearance of a child. Like, The fact that it's a child makes it so much scarier that maybe all these people are lying. And the way that the movie handles it is so effective. And you're right, yeah. I think the main tension is definitely kind of the religious tension, but I love just the...

mystery aspect of it as well. I just feel like that's so well handled. It's also the way that it's not just the fact that the townspeople are kind of denying that they know about her. Because they don't really deny it. And there's pictures of her and people know her. Oh, it's her. And then they still say, no, we don't know anything about her. No, she doesn't live here. It's that double...

It's like you don't really know. Are they lying? Are they not lying? And why are they covering this up? Or are they covering it up? And it's that mystery. And like I said, there's something... I wrote that down. There's something oddly hypnotic about this movie, and once you've started it, you can pause it. You can't take your eyes off it. So it's the whole mystery aspect. the way that they, yeah, I don't know, it's like,

They're covering it up and still they're not, if that makes sense. I wanted to ask you guys, though, would you say that they're gaslighting him? Like you guys would all say that that's what they're doing? Oh, there's no doubt. 100%. Yeah, 100. They absolutely are. And once you get to that... last act, you understand why. Another thing I love about this movie is it's also a musical. It does. You've got that

That great number in the bar where you get the male patrons singing about Brett Eklund's character. It's probably my favorite of the musical sequences. There's a lot going on in this film. There really is. It all leads up to that final act. This is a movie that I put in the same sort of classification as Hitchcock's Psycho. And what I mean by that is...

If you haven't seen this, go into it cold. Don't watch trailers. Stop right now what we're talking about and go watch the film. Because that last act. It's so... It'll shake you. It really will. It'll shake you to your core what happens in the last act of this movie. Especially if you don't know what's coming. Because I think... Even probably Joel, who hadn't seen it, you probably were pretty familiar with some of the imagery. Yes, I was.

But if someone is by chance not familiar with the imagery from the film, do exactly what Dave said because this will shock you. I think it would be more shocking had I known nothing going into it. Yeah. And I mean, I'm not giving spoilers. It's not just about what you see, it's what you hear at the end. It is. And I watched this with headphones. with the sound turned on way up it it is it is terrifying

Another film we could have thrown in for like a mild versus comparison here that Edward Woodward is in is Edgar Wright's Hot Fuzz. And he intentionally put Edward Woodward in the village. to kind of wink at the wicker man this yeah and there's a lot of wicker man in hot fuzz as well but yeah it's a good one yeah so peter um what what's your kind of um history with this one when did you when did you come to it oh wow i don't really remember i mean i've seen this

Probably way too young. But that was the theatrical cut. So when I watched it this time around, I purposely watched the director's cut. So there was actually scenes that I hadn't seen. Yeah. And you can actually see the difference in quality while you watch it in the inserted scenes because the quality goes down. It's not really much. There are some scenes at the start of the movie where he kind of established Howie at the police station.

life before going to the island and then there's some scenes on the island that are also inserted later but probably at a way too young age i watched this but i didn't really remember much about it so it must have been ages ago yeah and i knew at some point i will we would probably get to it somewhere so i have some movies that i purposely don't watch because i know somewhere down the line i'll probably watch it for a podcast

right and uh this was this was it and then when you you guys asked me so it's been a while then it's been a while yeah so uh it it kind of was like going into it with uh with fresh eyes so it scared me again

So, yeah, I mean, I like Joel. This is kind of, well, at least from my... point of view too this is going to be gushing because i love this movie there's something about it you can this is not something you have on in the background even though with the musical numbers that i kind of found amusing that it was almost like a musical Because every time you heard music and singing, you saw the band, you saw someone singing on the screen.

but uh you can't once this movie starts there's no way you can take your eyes off it and you will just be pulled into this i don't know even how to intense i don't know what you're going to call it. And even actually after the movie ends with that intense and terrifying scene, You just can't, like some people just switch it off with the end credits. You kind of sit there thinking about what you've watched. Yeah, definitely. It is one for the books, and everyone should watch it. Definitely.

What about you, Dave? Is this a film that you, it's been a while or is this one you've seen a lot? You know, it's funny because I didn't see it when I was younger. I think I first saw this, I want to say in the mid-2000s. The first decade of the 2000s, maybe 2004, 2005 was the first time I saw it. And I remember just sort of being blown away by it. I did watch it again within the last year.

enjoyed it even more. One of the things I came away with with this most recent viewing, even more so than the initial one, are the scenes with Edward Woodward and Christopher Lee. Their scenes together are really strong. You've got these sort of opposing values. Both of them feel so strongly. about their belief system. And just the way they're going about it. And Edward Woodward is sort of haughty and judgmental. Christopher Lee is much more friendly, but yet not backing down.

Their scenes together are really strong. I loved it. And I did, as I mentioned already, I really did like the handful of musical numbers in the film as well. I really did. I'm not sure when I first saw this, but it's definitely a movie that I saw when I was a kid, and I've seen this a lot. I've seen it probably a dozen times, or more, and I own it.

It's a great film. I don't know that the director's cut adds a ton, but all three of the films we're talking about today have a director's cut. I would say Midsommar is the one that changes the most. It changes a lot in the director's cut, but...

I think it's worth seeing. I think I would say with all three of these, I would watch the, I guess Wicker Man 2006 isn't a director's cut. It's like the unrated version, but I'd recommend watching the extended version of all of these if you get the opportunity. yeah but yeah yeah i'm a huge fan of this one it's a classic and um i wish i could have that experience of seeing it again for the first time yeah yeah It helps not having watched it in a while. It's a movie where not...

It's not an actiony movie, so if people want that, maybe they shouldn't watch it. You watch this for the experience. And like Dave said, the scenes between Christopher Lee and Edward Woodward are amazing. It's like he said, it's religion versus religion and no one's backing down and they both make valid points. It is a very, to Peter's point, it is a very odd thing.

and unique film it has it's very 70s you know it has that kind of almost dream structure that's not even like you know a typical film structure but um so you have to definitely be prepared for that it's not like a It's just not like a typical movie experience, but it is a beautifully constructed film. For people going into expecting to see Britt Eklund naked, that's not her.

Yeah. Or if, yeah, or Edward Woodward also. Ingrid Pitt. Ingrid Pitt is in this one as well. Yep. I'd forgotten about that. Yeah. The librarian. Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Joel? Any other thoughts you want to share about this one before we move on? I think we pretty much have covered everything. I'm deeply sad that I went 45 years.

But what a rich experience to be able to see it now. That's cool. It's true. Everybody always says, I can't believe you haven't seen that movie. But you know what? I always envy people who get to see these films for the first time. Fresh. I wish I could forget. Psycho and Wicker Man and all of these other great movies. I wish I could go into them fresh again. For me, it's more envious than how can you call yourself a horror fan? I'm like, whoa, are you in for a great experience?

And I'm obviously, you know, tongue firmly planted in cheek when I say that. I know you guys are not that way. Right. There's nothing judgmental about it. It's like Dave said, I envy people going to see some of these, the great quote unquote. great classics with new eyes or with innocent eyes, I wish I could go back and watch some of the movies I watched. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that for me, it was...

Honestly, the pleasant surprise, if I'm being honest, is that because I knew just enough about it and I knew how much it had been talked up by. And I value your guys opinion. I really do, because usually you don't. lead me astray. But yeah, of course I should. But I also feel like, you know, it's one of those movies that a lot of people who've seen it, I don't...

I cannot think offhand if I've heard a lot of people saying, yeah, I kind of hated that movie. I'm sure there are people that do, but I don't know of anyone that has. And actually, Peter and I were talking about this before we got on with everybody else, how oftentimes a movie's talked up a lot. And that can sometimes make you feel like when you go into like, eh.

It's all right. But this one, again, pleasant surprise. I really loved it. I think mainly because of as that mystery plays out, Wolfman, to your point about how all those elements are there. And then the way, again, I know we're gonna do a spoiler talk later. So it'd be easier, but the way everything goes together, that it feels really well thought out, like just as a, as a writing piece, like as, as, as great.

screenwriting like i i'm i was trying to go back through i think well did you know do all the pieces fit it's like oh yeah actually yeah that all makes it it didn't rely on there wasn't a lot of things that um

which again, I can't really say without giving away spoilers, but we'll get into that part. My point being is I just thought it was very well written. I love the way it looks. I love the way the pacing of it. I thought it was creepy. I love Christopher Lee. I love Edward Woodward. I really loved everything about it. And to your point, what you're alluding to with the writing and everything, you don't really have to...

Think about, oh, so that's why that. Exactly. Yeah. It all made sense. Yeah. It makes sense. It makes sense. There's a, there's a nice fluidity to it. And because, and because I, and because very shortly after watching this, I watched another version. of it it really drove that point home

I intentionally watched the new one first. I'm glad I did not. I'm glad I did not do that. So as far as ratings and all that for me, this is a solid nine for me. Like I loved it. I thought it was fantastic. I think it's worth owning. i would like to watch it again it is a fantastic movie so thank you thank you wolfman for guilting me you're welcome you're welcome it's very effective it worked well it worked well

Okay. I'm sorry. I'm going to go one. I'm going to say 10 out of 10. I love this movie. This made my top 10 of 1973. It's not one of my top 10 horror films. But I could find no fault in it. I really couldn't. And the last time I watched it, it just seems to get stronger each time. Even when you know what's coming, it gets stronger. And yet you still are.

just shaken by that final scene knowing it's coming doesn't take doesn't lessen the effect totally agree of that final scene even on multiple viewings at least it didn't for me no i think this comes it comes down to a good script or a good novel. I'm sure the novel comes in a little bit into it. It was written by

What is his name? David Pinner? But Anthony Schafer was the guy who wrote the screenplay. Yeah, they actually, they like fought about whether or not it was actually based on the novel. Oh, okay. Like, you know, I think there may have even been a legal battle about whether or not. If you think about The Wicker Man, it's Anthony Schaefer you think of, even with the new one. It's based on his screenplay. But to go back to Dave's words here, you...

What's good about this is the screenplay, like I said before, and also you have Christopher Lee and Edward Woodward. Britt Eklund taken out of the equation I suppose but I mean she's not known for being a fantastic actress but you have Christopher Lee and Edward Woodward and just watching these two on screen together is kind of enough. It's interesting just hearing them talk about, well, apples.

It's interesting. And that makes for a good movie. Absolutely. Yeah, so what would you give it, Peter? Oh, God, I don't really like... rating stuff. Well, that's part of the package. Welcome to the sanctum. Welcome to the inner sanctum, Peter. Yes, I know. No, I'm up with Dave's here because...

If a movie can mesmerize you and scare you like that, that you can't really, you don't pause it to go to the bathroom, you just hold it in. And you sit, even though you've done that, you still sit through the credits. And think about what you watch. So this is a 10. Yeah, I like what several things Peter just said. I think Anthony Schaefer is somebody I'm a big fan of. I think this is his best.

film, but I think Sleuth, a lot of people would say, is up there as well. That's a good one. Yeah, Sleuth is awesome. And he did Hitchcock's Frenzy, he wrote. And these aren't great, but I still love them. The Agatha Christie adaptations of... Evil Under the Sun and Death on the Nile. And he was also uncredited on Murder on the Orient Express as well. So he's done a lot of stuff that I really enjoy. But...

Yeah, I think this is just a classic. And I think for me, yeah, it's just an easy 10 because... of the place that holds in cinema history. Like it's not going to be for everybody. I do think, you know, if you don't love the vibe of seventies kind of, so I wouldn't, it's not psychedelic, but I think Peter again described it well, like he's called it.

you said he puts you in a trance it's kind of mesmerizing it is kind of have that feel to it and so if you feel like going on that kind of a ride and you're not expecting necessarily the same types of setups and payoffs you'd get a conventional screenplay although there are great setups and payoffs in this film I think you'll enjoy this one but yeah this is a 10 out of 10 for me and I think we can all agree Stream it on shutter. That's what we want to really drive. Indeed.

So, yeah, get started streaming the best horror thriller and supernatural content. Shudder's expertly curated collection includes must-see titles like last year's Color Out of Space, Host. the Mortuary Collection, plus all the best horror documentaries like Cursed Films and Horror Noir, and the hit Creepshow TV series from executive producer Greg Nicotero of The Walking Dead, and of course...

The Wicker Man, 1973. Try Shudder free for 30 days. Go to Shudder.com and use the promo code HMP. That's S-H-U-D-D-E-R.com and promo code HMP. All right, that was... Awesome movie discussion and good use of our Shudder sponsorship. I'm glad that this movie is available for everybody to see so easily. You can see it for free. Helps out the show.

Check it out. Now we're going to move into what's probably the best movie we're going to talk about tonight. The Wicker Man 2006. Wow. I was happy I was on mute there. all right so the wicker man 2006 now i will say uh this is the first time i've ever seen i and i saw it just a few hours ago for the first time So I'm going to go to IMDb for my synopsis of The Wicker Man from 2006, written and directed by Neil Labute, obviously based on Anthony Schaefer's screenplay from the original.

And the synopsis, a sheriff investigating the sheriff. Two words in. We're already off the rails here. A sheriff, yes, that's what it is. A sheriff, along with his drunken sidekick, played by Dean Martin, and a young gunman, played by Ricky Nelson, headed to the island of Summer's Isle. No, he's a motorcycle cop. I didn't watch that movie. Well, I want to see that movie. Actually, that would have been pretty cool. That would have been amazing. He's a motorcycle cop.

Investigating the disappearance of a young girl from a small island discovers there's a larger mystery to solve among the island's secretive neo-pagan community. All right, the rest of it's okay. The sheriff was a little off the rails. Now... Crazy Nick Cage has become a genre in and of itself. And this movie, I think, sort of, there are sequences in this film that sort of cement that.

You know, that sort of when you think of this movie, you think of crazy Nick Cage. And it started, you know, you go back to Vampire's Kiss in 1986 all the way up to today. It really is. Crazy Nick Cage has become something, you know, people look for that. When Nick Cage is in a movie, they expect him to be insane. They expect him to be sort of off the wall. You see that in this movie. However, he's not that way.

For most of it, he's just sort of this cop. What happens is he gets a letter from his former fiance. uh who's on this island of summer's isle who's saying uh you know she walked out on him basically um is what happened and he's actually recuperating there's a this this movie has a great opening sequence where you're following Nicolas Cage's character, and he plays, who is it, Edward Maness, I want to say his name is. They sort of give homage to Edward Woodward.

You get his name both with Nicolas Cage's character, his first name, and the last name of the girl he's going to check out. Rowan Woodward is her name. So they sort of pay homage to Edward Woodward in this film, which I thought was kind of cool. But there's a sequence where there's a doll tossed out onto the road. He's going along on his motorcycle. The car is in front of him and you see a doll tossed out of the car. He picks it up and pulls the car over.

to return the doll to the little girl and just something horrible happens. And it's like one of those traumatic events that it's very hard to, I mean, if it's something that I had witnessed, I think it would have really sort of... um it would have played with my my psyche you know i would have been in the same situation as him where he has to sort of take some time off but while he's recuperating from this uh you know horrific event He gets a letter from his former fiancee, played by Kate Behan.

And she says, look, I know you're not the last person you want to hear from, but I've returned home to Summer's Isle and I need your help. My daughter is missing. Rowan Woodward is missing. And I fear for her safety. I need your help. Please come to Summer's Isle. Well, against the advice of some of his peers, he decides to head to Summer's Isle to carry out this investigation to find this young girl.

And, of course, he meets with the same things that happened in the first film. People saying, no, there's never been a girl by that name here. Or, oh, yes, we know of Willow. is the name of his former fiance. We know her, but yeah, no, she never had a daughter. You get a lot of the same things you got in the first Wicker Man, which I think is, if you've seen the first Wicker Man.

This movie isn't going to, they make several changes to it. Obviously, Nicolas Cage plays a much different character than Edward Woodward played in the first film. But yet the ultimate story, as you're watching it, you know how it's going to unfold, at least in your mind if you've seen the original. You know how this one's going to unfold. And I don't think it unfolds that much differently from what you're expecting. But that said, that said. I could hold it in.

I think that, you know, you get this sort of mystery where he's trying to figure out where is Rowan, what's going on with her. He has flashbacks to this horrific event that he experienced at the beginning of the movie. And I thought that was, like I said, a nice little addition that Neil Labute threw in there to sort of flesh out the character a little bit or to at least get you on his side.

It's in the last act, though, that you get full-on Nick Cage. In the last act. Of course you've got that sequence, and I'm not going to go too deep into it. Let's just say the bees. That's what I've always heard about with this movie. is the sequence with the bees with nick cage now after watching this movie i went online and i looked up tried to find out like the most nick cage nicholas cage performances you know the sort of

The ones where he goes just sort of absolutely insane. And oddly enough, I found one on JoeBlow.com on the YouTube page where they counted down the top 10. Crazy Nick Cage performances. This only ranked number three. There were two ahead of it. Vampire's Kiss. I'm talking about the scene where he says the alphabet.

I believe that. And what was the other one? There was a crime film that actually was a little bit, Deadfall. Deadfall. Oh, really? Deadfall was a little bit of, not... uh what was it bad lieutenant porter that's what i thought it was going to be yeah that one was just behind this one okay but it was on the list um you know shoot him again his soul is still dancing

But Deadfall actually came in. It was Vampire's Kiss and Deadfall that came in ahead of this. Still, his performance in this movie is a stuff of legend. And for me, it's reason enough to watch it. It's predictable. If you've seen the original, you know how this one is going to end. All right? But...

If you like crazy Nick Cage, I can't see you passing this up. I really can't see you passing up worker men. Dave, can I just say real quick? You've made me a happy little boy. I have to mute myself. As soon as you started saying... you're so good at just like keeping cool, calm and collected. I couldn't have done everything you just said without like laughing throughout the whole thing because it's like, honestly, I just kept visualizing.

Bare-suited Nick Cage punching a woman in the face. I actually... He clocks... Three women in this movie, and I laughed out every single time. My favorite one is the karate kick, actually. Oh, the karate kick. Yes. Yes, into the wall. Yes. Oh, I don't even know how to rate this movie, because I want to rate it like a three.

The problem with this movie for me is I watched the original, absolutely loved it, and then within less than 24 hours, I watched this one. I deliberately watched this one first. See, but you've seen the original. I hadn't seen it, and I didn't want to... I'll be honest with you. I'm really glad I didn't do that because I feel like he would have tainted what I saw. I feel like it would have. So, um,

I think just, it took me like three different tries to get through this movie because I think the whole time, like first, you know what? Here's the other thing. Let me explain Wolfman. Because I thought, Wolfman's going to be mad at me because- I didn't... It was more like my mouth was hanging open through most of the movie rather than laughing because...

Wow. It's such a point of comparison to the original. So fresh in my mind that it just annoyed me how the choices they made were so inane and stupid that I couldn't get past that. Like, I just was like, all right, wait, wait, wait, wait. So. Like the whole point of the original is like everybody is like gaslighting him and they're acting like, but yet by the very nature of sticking his former flame in the middle of all this, you've completely...

Like eradicated that. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like there's this, it screws up these little things. Like the fact that if you, you don't have, if you've watched ever, like if you've watched any, like. I don't know law and order. If you watch any of these cop shows ever, you know how basic jurisdiction works, but apparently no one who was behind this movie did.

Because nothing he does would, now they had sent him as like a private detective and they had sent him just as a ex lover who wants to know about his potential child. Okay. Then fine. He'll try to kick in doors and do all, but he acts like he's got some sort of like, I, just show you my bag wait why did i just show like he worked like as a security guard and he just shows his plastic

Badged everybody. Like it has that much power. I mean, I'm not even sure if you have jurisdiction that you can karate kick people like that. Especially women. I don't know if you can karate kick women. Fair point. No. Fair point. But I'm just saying that all of a sudden.

side it's just the fact that no i just kept thinking like did you guys like and this is 2006 you could have googled you could have googled any of this like make him a federal agent at least then maybe you could say okay he's a federal agent and he's got you know i'm saying like i guess

None of it. It's like they were trying to keep it in line with the original was. But then, by the way, when they say neo-pagan in the IMDb thing, Dave, they're not neo-pagan. Like, I don't know what the hell they were. They were like...

Like this weird. I kind of like that word neopagian. Yeah, but they weren't that. Which then, that's the other thing I made a point in my own, like as I'm writing down notes, was what didn't make any sense is you've got that really interesting juxtaposition of the, you know, the Christian tradition.

person versus the actual like pagan you know you know nature based or you've got these this one it's like it was so muddled like if they had made it where nick cage's character was like this secular like science driven kind of guy atheist type guy and then he goes there and there may be more like a primitive, almost like ancient form of Christianity, right? And then you kind of play off on that, fine, but it's not what they do.

I mean, we'll speak to that really quick because I think what I think. OK, so this was produced by Nick Cage's company, Saturn Films. And, you know, they also produced. puts the movie Dave that we always start talking about Shadow of the Vampire and so Nick Cage was always going to be in this movie which I think ultimately because of the movie we got is a blessing because it's hilarious

But there is a part of me that's like, if this had been made with someone else, it could have been a lot better. Number one. Number two, I understand why they went after Neal Abue, because Neal Abue's whole thing is men versus women. All of his most famous films, before he started doing bigger films,

Neil Butte's best stuff was his indie stuff. And then when he started trying to do mainstream work like this, he just hasn't been able to quite land it yet, at least critically, and audiences. But I love Neil Butte. And his early stuff, your friends and neighbors and in the company of men, it's all about. Men versus women. And I think that is what they did here. This is a matriarchal society. They switched it around a little bit. But it's a beehive, right? And there's a queen bee.

And they're all these the males are these drones that are inconsequential to anything going on. I don't know which version you guys saw. James Franco is in the theatrical version, but not in the unrated version. That's the one I saw. I had to go.

Actually, I was so thrown because in the version I saw, the whole B scene was not there. They just do the audio. Like you could just hear him being, I guess, what they're doing to him. Oh, wow. Which actually I thought worked a little bit better. Well, yeah, because it's so real. ridiculous. But I actually, I actively sought out that.

I actively sought out that clip on YouTube. Cause like, Oh no, I'm not going through two hours of this movie and not get to see the bees scene. No, absolutely. See the unrated version. It's not a whole lot longer, but it has, it's a much better movie. I, think or it's more interesting i don't know if it's better but it i it's got the more wild stuff in it it's got because what they were trying to do was

No, not the bees. It was written to be an R-rated movie, and then they cut it down to PG-13. So the unrated version is really the original R-rated version, so it's got way more fun horror elements and wild. Crazy stuff in it. Breaking up the legs. Rather than this tension between paganism and Christianity, this film is really this...

I think it's like a female driven world versus like this male dominated world. And I think Chris Nicholas Cage is coming in. Like he's a man, he's going to save the day and he's, you know, and he's kind of like, he knows what he wants and then he runs up against this different society where he can't really make sense of it. And I think, I think that's the reason you go after a director like Neil Abue is if that's the story you're trying to tell. Um, I don't, yeah.

I don't know if it's successful. But I do, there are things I love about it. I think there was a spate of, and this is a common thing, right, where they take an international film and they try to Americanize it. And it's usually something we all, I mean, none of us here love remakes. but I I'm always interested in remakes I'm always fascinated by them and I think particularly the Nordic films they've done pretty well at translating them like you know the 1997 Insomnia is a classic film with

I guess it's Norwegian and Swedish kind of co-production. Yeah, that's an awesome. I mean, it's one of the best films ever. It works as the remake. Yeah, well, yeah, the Christopher Nolan remake with Al Pacino and Robin Williams. It sort of mutes it a little bit, what happened in the original, but it's still a good movie. I agree with you. You move it to Alaska, but people hated it when it came out.

I loved that movie. I loved it. I liked it too. I thought it was good enough. I still prefer the original, but I do like the remake as well. But it's not a movie that needed to be remade at all. But the remake worked. And then same as I would say, let the right one in. I think it's a perfect film. Let Me In is a lesser film, but it's still good. It's still very good, yeah. And I would say this is maybe the worst example of that, but I think it's an interesting way to...

you know, move something from Summer's Isle to, you know, an island in the Pacific Northwest. I love, I like that translation. And I think visually it looks really good. Like I love the... The cinematography I think is beautiful. I think the production design is incredible. I think the script is 80% according to the IMDb trivia. I don't know if that's true, but it says the script is 80% from the original movie.

um and so actually because i thought about that while watching yeah so there are there are actually a lot in the dialogue that is word for word yeah and so it's interesting then just for me like as someone who loves to study cinema like why does this one fail so miserably One, it's got some interesting ideas. It's got an interesting director, A-list star. The cinematography is better, you know, more modern. So it's like it should work better for a contemporary audience, I guess.

And yet it just is like this utter failure. Narratively, it really doesn't make any sense. And it's weird because it does if you know the original. Like if you're like, I know what Wicker Man's about. I think you can just watch this and you kind of get it. But if you actually, I think if this was, and I think this is why it was one of the reasons why it was so poorly received is that if you're just watching, this is, is your only wicker man experience. It really doesn't make any sense. Like,

The way that the car crash and the girl and all this stuff ties into the later films, like, wait, what's happening? How does this happen? The car crash keeps changing every time he thinks about it. It's super unclear, like, how all of these threads connect and it feels like there are just a million loose ends that don't ever pay off and maybe that's the four minutes of footage that is still unreleased from this movie who knows but Hopefully we'll get those four minutes someday.

Yes, hopefully. Hopefully we will. As long as we can only watch those four minutes. I'm weird. I know that I'm weird. I would almost never recommend this movie to someone as a normal viewing experience. I do think it is one of those so bad.

it's good like a really fun watch with friends kind of a movie and i i but i actually legitimately enjoy watching this movie because i like the world it takes place in i just like being and i felt like this with midsummer too like i just like being submerged in like

this kind of weird culty atmosphere on a beautiful island and there's cool production design and it's pagan like i like all that vibe and i and i and i don't know what the key to unlocking the mysteries of this film is like i'm really curious precisely what Neil of you was going for here but I do you know it's easy to identify like the queen bee in Ellen Burstyn and how that plays out and how the men are like subjugated and kind of like I kind of like that.

that version of it does switching it around to a matriarchal community. Yeah. I like that as well. And if they had gone with it and like done, like here's the issue. Like you guys just said, okay, they took 80% of that original script. and just modified the 20%. Well, that's the problem. It's like they should have gone all in on that.

on that aspect. Take it from that. You know, it just, it never was that, it wasn't clear. I mean, yeah, you get it. I mean, okay, she's the queen. We get it. But, and they're all about bees. Very subtle. But I guess I didn't.

it never felt like other than having this sort of trite you know hackneyed symbolism there was never any sense of that the the matriarchal society and him coming up against i never like whereas in the original it is very clearly about these two different belief systems clash

I just realized something. What's that? Because the version I watched, because that was the theatrical version, you didn't get the B scene in there. Yes. And since you didn't get that... you didn't get because you have a bee scene earlier on when he's running through the hives yeah you didn't get a payoff

in the theatrical version no you didn't you just saw you they just thought about that yeah you see you see evidence that something happened but you don't know why you don't know that yeah it's it's it's setting something up and it doesn't happen in the theatrical version oh i never realized that

So I don't know what exactly versions are streaming where. If you do want to see the underrated version, which I recommend, I would get the Blu-ray. Because that's where you can see it. I have the DVD. I don't have the Blu-ray. I have the DVD of the unrated now. That's the only version I've seen.

Wow. Yeah. I will say too, that speaking of things that make literally like no sense to seem to point on, you guys already alluded to this is that opening scene, the fact that it comes back multiple times and really has no particular payoff. Like there's no.

I got to say, I was waiting for them to tie that into Summer's Isle somehow. They did because at the very end, you see some people that obviously are connected if you get my drift without giving anything directly away. But what I'm saying is if the argument is that happened and that's what.

drives him to some result but not really it's the letter that does because it's still the same setup the letter my daughter's missing and then they felt the need because the audience is too stupid apparently to figure out that this guy could just want to go and and investigate this which again because if they don't connect him to the mother then there's no absolutely zero reason because he's there's no connection I think the reason he went there initially

was to just reconnect with that woman. Yes, yeah. And to find out why did you leave? That's what I took it from. That's the reason that drove him there. His ego and insecurity. His ego and insecurity is the whole motivating factor. Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm thinking. That's what I was thinking. Again, it's very typically Neal Labute territory, like male ego.

you know? So I get it. Like it's, I don't know. It's it, but yeah, the company of men is a much better executed example of that. Right. Yeah. I didn't, we talked about it. Would it have worked? Sorry. He gets up from the diner.

At the very beginning of the movie, you see him for about three seconds. Oh, really? I didn't get to it. He gets up and walks out. As a matter of fact, I remember I even went back and I was watching a little bit of the movie. So you're saying he had enough? And Neil Lebut said,

Aaron Eckhart's been in all my movies. I figured, wouldn't it be funny to put him in this one? He's the one at the diner who gets up and walks out at the very beginning and you never see him again. He's there for about two seconds. That's hilarious. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Now that you mention it. I thought about that. Hey, isn't that? And then he never reappears. Never reappears.

What if Aaron Eckhart was the star of this movie? Could it have worked in any better though? No, I don't think so. Because it wouldn't have been funny. For this particular version of the movie, we- We kind of need Nicolas Cage. We need Crazy Nick Cage. Wolfman, you said this earlier. With Eckhart, I feel like it would not have been funny. Picture him in a bear suit.

Okay, I do want to address this. There are some interesting IMDb trivia things that I saw on here. First of all, the 80% of the script is the same. These are some interesting ones, though. Let's see. Nick Cage said that he was upset that people thought it was unintentionally funny that he was intentionally trying to make a black comedy. And that was part of. the soul of the film, what they actually set out to do. Mission accomplished.

Yeah. Here's another couple of fun little trivia things. The film was dedicated to Johnny Ramone, who introduced Nick Cage to Robin Hardy's original The Wicker Man, 1973. I saw that. I saw that with the credits for playing it. I didn't know why. Thank you. I saw it was dedicated to Johnny.

remote yeah and then this is a fun one it says winona writer turned down the role of willow in this film as she hated the script that's harsh and this is and this is uh you know the the person who is in welcome home roxy carmichael so i'm just saying Wow. I can say two things about this. I'm sorry, Josh. Go ahead. I'm going to say two good things about this movie. One.

is the music because it's made by uh angelo badlamenti so the score was good and i like the kind of the idea of that matriarchal community that they kind of did a switcheroo thing there Although they didn't really go all the way with it. Yeah. And when Nicolas Cage punches out that karate kick, it's like, what the hell are you doing, man? Yes.

The first one I kind of understood, but when he was sort of fighting Lily Sobieski, I thought that was maybe a little bit of a mismatch. A little bit over the edge. And the bear punch. That's so funny, though. I laughed out loud at that part. I'm not going to lie. I was like, what in the hell is happening? Yeah, but other than that, I mean, I wrote that several times. I have written down, I see in my notes, the word flat.

Because the movie is not like Josh said, it's not all bad, but there's something missing and it feels flat. And I wrote that down several times. There's something... and that's the irritating part of it because you see there's a good movie there's some well there is because that was made in 1973 but you could still have Because Nicolas Cage in this one is weird. I mean, he starts out at the start of the movie. It's almost like me on a Monday morning going to work, hating it, because he is...

I don't know. It's like he's just switched off. He goes through the same motion. Yeah, you're going too fast here. So the ticket and all that kind of like monotone. Yeah, even before this happened for that tragedy. He seems to just sort of, like you're saying, going through the motions when he's at the diner and the waitress says, hey, honey, your meal's ready. He just sort of looks and nods. He's not all there even at that point. Nope.

But then he goes to the island and stuff. And he's kind of like a, I don't know, elephant in a porcelain store, because he just bumbles onto this island, not knowing what to expect and just disrupting the... And you couldn't see that. I did air quotes normalcy. and but but to get to josh's point like you said there this i wrote that down this feels like a fourth or fifth generation vhs copy of something

It's so watered down. You expect to see more, and it's just not there. It's unfortunate because if you've seen the original, you know exactly what's going to happen, and you're just waiting for it to happen as you're watching the movie. Now, one thing I will say, and maybe this is faint praise, but this is now my favorite Lili Sobieski performance.

Before it was Deep Impact, so now I have to give it to the wicker man. I liked her a little bit more in this one. I liked Diane Delano, who was the first recipient of the punch. Lily Sobieski got the next sister beach. Yeah. Yeah. Molly Parker, who plays a couple of characters in this film, I thought was interesting. And of course, Ellen Burstyn, you know, is it appears as as the the leader of this community. She's sort of the Christopher Lee.

uh if you will of of this one long hair yeah right casting for this type of role i think what's that i think it's good casting oh yeah i agree i think i absolutely agree um Now, and like I said, he changed a few aspects of the story that Neil LaBute did. The reason, including the reason Edward is ultimately on Somerset. You know, why was he brought there? You find that out, and it is a little different from the original. They changed that up.

a surprise i think you kind of see that coming maybe after he has that first meeting uh with his former fiance um And just everything. There's a lot of beats in this film that are just from the original. You get that same sense of, you know, you're just waiting for it to happen. And it doesn't change it up enough. Like, let's look at.

For as an example, let's look at the recent Pet Sematary. I thought they changed more in that one, enough to sort of keep you on edge if you've seen the original. In this version, though, if you've seen the original Wicker Man. The ending is just not going to have the impact that you saw, you know, that the original one did. But yet, again, like I said, there's just something about crazy Nick Cage that's.

It's always going to add a few points for me when it comes to the final rating. And this is crazy Nick Cage at his best. And embarrassing punching women. Okay, so what's your rating, Dave? Okay, you ready for this one? I hope you're sitting down, Joel and Peter. 7 out of 10. 7? 7 out of 10. It would have been a five, but Crazy Nick Cage added two points for me. Love it. I'm going to say a rental. No, don't go out and buy it like I did. Don't be a fool, but I say definitely. I probably will.

You have to if you want to see the better. Well, I don't know. Again, if you can't find the unrated version for rental, it's worth getting. It's worth watching this. If you're going to have a party and laugh at the movie because it sucks. get four or five friends together, everybody pitches in two bucks, and then get the Blu-ray or DVDs so that you can see the underrated version.

Just saying. Considering some of the movies I have on my shelf, this is not on the lower half. I have this right next to Spice World.

So was this everyone's first time seeing it except for me? Yes. It was my first time. Definitely my first time. Okay, let's go next with Peter. Well, like I said, the last note I did was... unnecessary remake you didn't really need to remake this but again it's not all bad because there's some fun in it and most of it well all of it actually comes from nicholas cage

because he is well at the start he's he's wooden that's a good way of describing he is kind of i suppose it's again going through the motions of work every single time everything is the same and then the accident happens and then you have to work through that as well.

So, I suppose he snaps at one point, and that's where Crazy Nick Cage comes in. Even before he snaps, though, you get these little moments where you can just tell it's Nick Cage improvising. Yeah, exactly. What are you on the back there, a shark? Yeah, exactly. Because he is Nick Cage, and again, it's... I'm sure it's like I do on a Monday morning when I go to work. It's that cynical thing. You just can't help yourself. Because you just hate being there. And you can see it on his face.

when he gets on that motorcycle. The only thing I think he takes joy from is nailing people. giving them tickets because that's what i would have done so and then again like ellen burston is a really good uh what is she sister sister samara Summer's Isle, right? Yeah. Seeing her in this role, and she was perfect. And again, like the IMDb trivia, some of her lines are like carbon copies of Christopher Lee's.

So seeing her in this was also a treat. So it's not all bad, and I'm somewhere... Oh God, here comes the ratings again. 10 out of 10. Give it a 10. No, that's not going to happen. It's a little bit more than the middle. So a six, six and a half, I suppose. Good God, what is happening? No, but again, it's Nicolas Cage. You've just crossed into the Twilight Zone, Joel. Good Lord. Wow.

Okay, let me go next. I thought I would be the only one defending this movie in any way, shape, or form, so I'm not actually going to go as hard as I was originally planning on because I'm glad to hear that Dave and Peter confides that they appreciated it. Look, my point of view

is i love these remakes if you are a student of film especially if you're an aspiring filmmaker you're someone who wants to write direct anything like that it's worth seeing and studying why some things work and others don't

So honestly, I think the comparison between Wicker Man 73 and Wicker Man 2006 is fascinating because they're so similar and yet worlds apart. And I think this is like the Psycho remake, which we won't... get into blows about right now i do think it's worth just looking at and being like what happened like what is like what is the difference Why and why did they go wrong? Yeah. And it's just a fascinating thing, I think, to look at as someone who loves cinema.

And then, yeah, there is just the so bad it's good quality. I love best worst movies. Troll 2 is like, I think one of the most entertaining films of all time. And, you know, that's a movie I give like a 1.5 or a 2, but it's a high priority. recommendation own it buy it like because it's that much fun and that's how kind of i feel about this movie like i don't think it's quite that bad but i i'm gonna give this one a 5.5

But I think buy this Blu-ray. I think it's worth seeing the unrated version. It's weird. It's funny. It's strange. And for me, it's just a world I like to be submerged in. Wait, dude. Dave and I just got suckered into getting higher ratings than you. Higher than you. What the hell? Well, because what I do is I do my ratings differently. Like I think objectively.

i don't think it's a fantastic film but i love it you know what i mean so that's that's no i get it i get it i mean i have and i'm i know dave has we have clunkers on our shelves that we love watching because they are clunkers yes Same here. So now we turn it over to Joel to crap all over this movie. For the person who actually represents 99.9% of the audience.

Yeah, the young ones. The young ones. Thank you, Ed. I appreciate that, Peter. So something did occur to me as you guys were talking, because you said 80% of this movie, supposedly, based on the original screenplay, that other 20% had to be Nick Cage.

in his improvisation. Yes. Because, like, it occurred to me, like, the dialogue in this way, we didn't even get into that. Like, how characters, for instance, Ellen Burstett's character, she's saying things, words, are coming out of her mouth, and his responses to them? seem like they're in a different movie.

It does both tonally and just even in response. In his head, he's in another movie. It was. It was like he was in a totally different movie. And what I also loved is the character that his girlfriend, Willow, right? That was the Kate Behan. character. Yes. She does this a lot where she's just talking, you know, like we're talking right now and then just... And then she'll just say something and just... It's like... times where a thought is not completed it's like why is she just mumbling

There's a reason why not a writer turned that part down. I feel like that is probably the real reason. She's like, why does she never complete a sentence? Half a sentence and then parentheses garbled mumbling. Yeah, it was really, really odd. here's the thing. I think too, it didn't help that I watched this immediately after seeing the first one for the first, the original for the first time.

Maybe have a day between them. I should have at least had a good solid day. Maybe 48 hours. And I think this watched with other people, I will 100% agree, Wolfman would have made it. Yep. thousand percent more funny and more enjoyable but as a result i just most of the time was just like i was overthinking it i just kept watching thinking but why the hell wait if you're good and and then i will say

The net positive of the theatrical is you get James Franco and John Ritter's kid macking in a bar, which is kind of funny. And that scene, that scene seems so out of place. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, what? What's going on? Almost as out of place as Lili Sobieski's character telling Nick Cage's character early on, take me with you. Yeah, I gotta say, because then it never went anywhere from there.

Well, she says kind of the same thing at the end of the episode. That's a spoiler. We'll cut that part. It's okay. When we get to the spoiler part, we'll discuss how that also comes into play later, let's just say. But it... It doesn't make any sense. That makes sense, I guess, considering I get what they're trying to do. Anyway, the point is, so I will say I started off this review with this movie at a three. Okay. But just the laugh I got visualizing him in that pair suit.

It was so deep and just, it honestly uplifted my soul to such a degree. I'm giving it now a four. So I'm giving this thing a four out of 10. It is a so bad. It's not really good, but it is.

I will say this. I think people who enjoy that kind of movie and I do, I like troll too, but I, you know, I'm weird in that I'll watch movies kind of unironically as well that I know, I know objectively are not good. I get it. Munchies. Hey, but, well, Black Munchies, I know it's not a good movie, but I just, I do, I get what you're saying, but for me, I have this weird ability to, you talked about forgetting.

earlier dave and i don't know why but i'm actually in a weird way able to do like i i'm able to somewhat turn off not always but for a movie that i have like insane amounts of nostalgia for we can get into the whole cnd discussion that I'm able to kind of turn it off and be like, oh yeah, I know this is objectively not a good movie. I don't care. Still enjoy it. And not just because it's quote unquote bad. I just like it for what it is. So, but this movie, and who knows how did I see this movie?

When I was a kid, which I wouldn't have been because in 2006, I wasn't. But had I been, I feel like maybe I feel different about it. Had I had I seen the original Wicker Man like back in the 80s and then 2006 rolls around, I see this thing. maybe maybe i'd watch through the bunch of people but otherwise for me it is a rock solid four out of ten and i'd say avoid unless you really are just a bit of a masochist

That's amazing. But see, watching Nicolas Cage in a bear suit, I feel like, look up that scene, because honestly, that's worth the price of admission. Here's the thing, like, Joel... Everyone agrees with you. Everyone agrees with you. I'm looking at the Rotten Tomatoes. This has a 15% from critics. 17% from audiences. So it's not like... This is not that occasion where the audience loved it and the critics hated it or vice versa. No, I think IMDb is like 3.7 or something like that.

So again, you and I, Dave, were suckered into giving it higher ratings. Yeah, here we are thinking Joel's going to, I'm sorry, Josh is going to back us up. Yeah. I realized I didn't have to go as hard because you guys were actually, you know, kind of... I did say it was an unnecessary remake, though. The problem is the final scene of the original is impactful.

The final scene of this one is a foregone conclusion. Yes. Because it doesn't alter it enough from the first one. So you're waiting for it to happen as you're watching the movie. You're waiting for them to get to that scene, the inevitable moment. at the end of the film and it doesn't alter it to any specific any point that you're going to leave saying wow i just saw something completely different they start at the beginning but by the end of the movie it's the same film as the 1973 version

Exactly. I'm looking here on Rotten Tomatoes, and one of the critic reviews says, Nicolas Cage gives the worst performance of his career. And I'm just like, that's not true. Like, no, no, no. But that's early, too. Have they not seen other Nick Cage movies? Yeah. alphabet scene in vampires and also for me i would much rather see wackadood nick cage than national treasure wick nick cage like way more you know i would much rather see him off the rails

He's fun. That's what I can do with Nick Cage. Yes, he really is. Before we wrap up this review, I think it is important. Just one last quote from this classic, classic movie. Is this hers? How'd he get burned? How'd he get burned? How'd he get burned? Yes. I kind of laughed. I laughed. I'm going to get burned. I'm going to get burned. I'm going to get burned. I'm going to get burned.

Again, Nick Cage is actually what makes the movie. Yeah, this is what you see what happens when Nick Cage goes off script. Oh my gosh. This is what you get. is 2006 The Wicker Man, when he decides, hey, I think I know this character, I'm going to ad lib a little bit here. Yeah. He's the one developing the script and producing it. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll just say one more thing about this one. Kate B. Ann, who played Sister Willow, was also in, and I've seen this movie, so that's why I just so make people laugh at me. The Crocodile Hunter collision course. The Crocodile Hunter, really? I saw that in the theaters with my kids. I wish I'd seen that in the theaters. I was so upset because they did so much of that movie to that.

goddamn satellite who cares yeah who cares about that satellite and the country's trying to recover the spy satellite we're there to see the crocodile hunter for god's sakes we don't care about the spy satellite I was so disappointed walking out of the theater. I kind of didn't hate that movie. I didn't hate it either because it had the crocodile hunt in it. It had Steve Irwin in it. So how can you hate anything that Steve Irwin's in? It didn't have enough Steve Irwin.

Exactly. Not that I'm sure Wolfman isn't it. that's for another discussion I heard Josh tried to pipe in you guys what's going on about the crocodile hunter no I mean you know there's definitely it has its audience so as much as you want to talk about the crocodile hunter no no no I just

I found it funny that in this sense she was in that one. I'm very curious if we have any audience members who are like, these guys are missing the point of this movie. Obviously, it's all about... yeah because i do i do wonder i mean you know there is the very as joel said it's kind of like hackneyed but there's some very obvious you know be symbolism i'm wondering if there's anything a little bit deeper that um is there

I know like Neela Butte is Mormon and the beehive within Mormonism is like a symbol that is like a major symbol. And I'm wondering if that played into his, his leaving the Mormon church played into. anything to do with the B content. So if any, if there's anyone out there with a fan theory, please leave it in the comments or movie podcast.com. I'm super curious. Um, if anybody has any insight into.

what the hell they were doing here. Yeah. Loved it. I'm happy I'm not going to get flack for giving it low notes at this one. Yes. Yes. I'm not going to get jumped. Okay, so moving on to the last in our kind of versus discussion, we are going to be talking about Ari Aster's Midsommar from 2019. Hang on. My papers were too far away. Would this be a good place for Peter to give his sort of background info that he provided for us for the Midsommar? Yeah.

sure but am i gonna read all that well i don't know if you read it all you can sort of summarize okay in sweden midsummer it's um They don't really know where. If you go on reading about it, which I did, because I find it interesting to see where traditions come from. And everyone is saying, oh, they like the maple when they rise to maple. And there's a maple in Midsommar too, of course, because that's what the movie is about or where it's set anyway.

And the maple is actually a tradition that came from Germany during the 1300s or 1400s, so it's not a Swedish tradition, it's more of like a Germanic version, well, European version, I suppose. but it all kind of stems and you hear this i don't know which version you watched by the way uh were the subtitles on the swedish uh when they talked swedish

Not all the time. Originally, they released it without that. I had no problem understanding any of this movie, but I'm sure it'll be confusing. They intentionally didn't want audiences to know what they were saying. In some instances. I remember there was definitely the subtitles when the girl came in and said, hey, the young people are watching Austin Powers if anybody wants to join them. I'm pretty sure that was subtitles. Yeah, okay.

Okay, and that's what they said. Never mind. Anyway, they mentioned very early on in Swedish when they come to this place where all this takes place and they meet the brother. We'll get into that. And he actually says to his brother, like, happy John the Baptist Day. Because Midsommar, I think, comes from a mix of old... uh european nordic traditions and also mixed in with the christian traditions of john the baptist because he uh because jesus was is at christmas and john the baptist was

According to the Bible, and I'm sure people will correct me with this, according to the Bible, he was born six months before Jesus was born. So that's why they celebrate. kind of john the baptist day in the middle of the summer right like uh 24th or 25th of june so it's mixed kind of into that and people were still holding on to some of their old older traditions and the christian well the priests and the religious people didn't really want to mess with all of that because well

they were smart because if you ban things it just it's not a good thing so they kind of wove it together with the quote-unquote pagan traditions and john the baptist so that's kind of where it stems from And then you weave into it with the maypole and celebration. But most of it is actually just celebrating the summer and leaving behind kind of like the dark period of the year.

And having fun. Most of the time nowadays it's a lot of departure. Well, no, it's not. I'm sorry. But it's a lot of drinking and nine months later a lot of kids are born. And so a lot of people take it as an excuse to drink a lot of alcohol. I've seen it, I've taken part of it when I was young and sadly. That happens, and then things get out of hand, as it most of the times does when there's a lot of alcohol mixed into it. When we celebrate Midsommar here...

We get together with friends and family, have some good food and have a good time, actually. That's more so. And then you dance around the maple, people do that with that ridiculous song with the smirk roudona. Small frogs and they dance around. I'm sure I've sent you videos of people jumping around looking like fools, but it's all in good fun. And it has nothing to do with it, just like the Easter Bunny giving out eggs. celebrating the crucifixion of...

Jesus. That's very true. Yes, the crucifixion of Jesus celebrated with a bunny giving out eggs. You're absolutely right. Yes. See, that makes no sense. Just like dancing around the maypole singing about little frogs and trying to look like little frogs. But it's Swedish Midsommar. It's fun and games. That's kind of like the Swedish. And the Summers also is not really all that... It hasn't really got all that much to do with it anymore.

And Denmark, should we get into that too? Absolutely, yeah. Sure, if you want to. Hey, Peter, would you say it's all fun and games up until the point that they throw a couple old people off a cliff? We'll get into that because that is a myth that has nothing to do with it. We'll get into that, actually. The Danish, they don't really celebrate Midsommar like that.

They have Sankt Hems evening, which is also like with John the Baptist, is to celebrate his birth. And in Denmark, it's more like lighting huge bonfires. during the summer and just again having fun singing songs and i think that was you know i it was what i sent you sometimes they celebrate by putting small figures looking like witches and we're burning witches at the top of the fires and to kind of getting rid of the evil in the world.

So I suppose that's kind of weird. Well, that's actually an interesting maybe Christian adaptation of whatever the pagan holiday was to be like, oh, now the bonfire represents killing witches, right? Yeah. Yeah. And let's see. Where is it? Yeah, there it is. it was in the text i sent you sometimes the witch puppet on the bonfire has built in fireworks making it sound like she's screaming in the flames i've never actually witnessed that but i'm sure someone does it

Because we're Danes and we're weird like that. We have a very dark sense of humor sometimes. So it's kind of like the same celebration just at a different time. And to go back to the May poll, there's a reason why it's called a May poll, even though it's midsummer celebrated at the end of June. It's because in Germany they raised these May polls, in May actually.

at the start of the summer and they couldn't really do that here because there weren't real because they decorated with flowers and there weren't really all that yeah exactly so that's why they moved that but uh basically it's the same it's john the baptist and celebrating that the days are getting longer and the it's summer and over here a lot of people start their vacation their annual vacation during the end of june so uh that also plays part of it one more time

So before we get into the movie proper, maybe this is a good segue into the movie. I'm always interested when there's a culture that I'm familiar with. For me, it's like punk or skate or surf or Mormon or Polynesian, like the kind of things I grew up around. I'm always interested in how they're depicted on screen.

so with you having grown up with Midsommar and you're in this area and this is your heritage like when you're watching this movie for the first time you're just like this is ridiculous or like or you're like oh yeah there this could happen or like what's it like where's your mindset when you're

when this movie is unfolding? It's kind of a little bit of all of what you said, because I'm going to be quite frank here. At some points of this movie, I was like... are people really think do people really think this yep is how okay there you go because i was like oh wow okay and some parts of it are are true of course but

I was like, oh, do people really? Wow, is this how we do it? I've never been to a Miss Omer celebration like this. And to be fair, this is a special celebration because it's only every 90 years. so i i'm sure i've missed this part because i'm not that old yet give it a couple of years i'll come back to you So let's get into this one. Clearing the throat.

Yes, I have to. I was like, whenever somebody goes, let's get into this one. No, I just had to turn the page. I couldn't remember her name. Danny. and her boyfriend, or in quotation. That relationship is really not going anywhere. and i mean i'm sure she is kind of clingy and he is kind of uh aloof about it so they're both to blame but anyway it starts off with them having a not so good relationship and then

We understand that her sister has apparently killed their parents and then killed herself. Grief plays a very good part in this movie. And that kind of puts the boyfriend in a weird situation because he was apparently going to dump her and go off with his friends to Sweden. and then he kind of has to and i don't mean this in a condescending way or anything at all when saying he had to it just the way the movie makes it out to be he he takes care of her in her grief kind of

And it is decided that she is to go along for the trip to Sweden. Which kind of puts a damper on his friends' enthusiasm because they thought they were going there for the sex and the women. So they go along with their Swedish friend and his name, what the hell was his name? Pelle. They go to this huge, somewhere in the northern Sweden, in Helsingland, which says on the sign that you probably couldn't read, but I could. And we emerge.

in the woods to this big clearing and everything looks uh dandy and happy and everyone are walking around in what is not traditional swedish garbs i must add it looks good though And everything feels very happy at the start of the movie. And they take mushrooms and things are happy, not for Danny who has weird visions. And then things start kind of unfolding. I don't want to go too deep into it. I'm sure we'll talk about it. But things aren't really what they seem at the start.

We kind of see the friends changing. None of the other people are changing because they know what's going down, but they are slowly realizing that things are not what they thought they would be. Does that make any sense? Yeah, absolutely.

Because there are parts of this movie that did it. So none of the clothing that they're wearing has traditional skin? Not really. Parts of it is, but it's not really any specific... regions of sweden like that but then again this is not a traditional swedish uh celebration this is like a cult so i'm sure that's where they were going yeah But yeah, it's... I don't know. It starts off fairly fun in games and then... I don't know. People are too happy.

I thought that was a thing, Peter. Well, during the midsummer here, it starts off happy. Well, then again, it kind of mirrors. It starts off happy, and then at the end, it's a celebration of things. sometimes go awry. Don't the Scandinavian countries have the highest happiness index or whatever it is? Well, that's what they say. Okay. Is that it? Okay. Yeah. I'm kind of anxious and interested in hearing your takes of the movie and what unfolds.

Well, I could just be just for myself. I just watched. I didn't get to see the whole movie again. I had seen it. I think it made my top 10 in 2019, the year it came out. But it might have been number 10. I think it was like at the bottom of my list. Watching it again now, I think what I really appreciated was just Ari Aster's approach to the material, how he just has this sort of observant camera that is just willing to hang there.

and let the scenes play out just slowly. I'm thinking about the scene where the camera finally goes into the house after what the sister has done with the parents there. and just how it just goes from room to room and lingers there and you even get that early on with some of those great snow scenes i was actually thinking of you josh because this the beginning of this movie is it takes place in the snow

I mean, this is like a winter horror film. It starts off dark. Yeah, it does. And you get that. And I just watched, not too long ago, Bellator's Damnation. And he's another filmmaker. who does the same thing where his camera just lingers and it just moves slowly through the settings and watching the characters. You'll hear someone talk off screen or a noise off screen. And eventually the camera will get around to show you what that is.

You get that in this one. I'm thinking of the scene here where the characters are sort of branching off. You have the Americans going to check out where they're going to be sleeping and the couple who were from London. are with their sponsor and he's showing them that, I guess that long blanket or quilt, whatever it was that has the embroideries, I'm guessing it's a fertility. Yes, it is. It's like, whoa, what the hell am I looking at here when you see this blanket?

But yet you see the characters, the Americans walking in the distance. And this is the stars. This is Florence Pugh and all of the other, you know, Will Poulter's character. They're off in the distance, but yet the camera, you see them all. And it's just kind of hanging there. And it's bringing you into this world. You're becoming like just another observer of this world. And that's the style.

I think I said when I reviewed this during our top 10 of 2019, this made me appreciate Hereditary more than I did the first time I saw it. And make me want to go back and watch Hereditary again. Because I went into Hereditary thinking it's the most frightening movie you're ever going to see. When I really should have been looking at it more from the stylistic points of what Ari Aster was doing with it.

this maybe this movie just made me want to go back and watch that one again and i got it even more so watching it this time just how observant and and And just the methodical way that he was sort of presenting this story, it pulls me in even more this time than maybe it even did the first time. Can you imagine him moving up your list at all?

Maybe. I'd have to look and see what I had ahead of it, to be honest with you. It's very possible it might. I've got it here. The Night Shifter is number one. Lighthouse is number two. Climax is number three. Us is number four. Daniel Isn't Real is number five. The Dead Center is number six. One Cut of the Dead is number seven. Sweetheart, The Dead Don't Die, and Midsommar. I could see it maybe going to number...

Maybe right above Daniel Isn't Real. Have you seen the director's cut? No, I've still only seen the theatrical cut. i gotta say for my money the director's cut is where it's at i i really i really want to see the director's cut it changes it a lot actually Wow. It changes the meaning of a few different scenes. I mean, it's so interesting how you see, and Peter alluded to it, how you see that their relationship is just not going to work.

Yeah. With Florence Pugh and her boyfriend, it's just not going to work because she has all of this trauma. And he just is not equipped to deal. He's a very selfish character. You even see that later on when he decides what his thesis is going to be. He's intruding on his friend's thesis. You see a very selfish person.

with another character who needs more, who is trying to be selfless, saying, no, it's my fault. He forgot my birthday. No, I don't want to intrude on you. No, she's trying to be very selfless, whether she is or not, whether that's her trauma speaking, whether that's something that just has her sort of a flame to assert herself as opposed to with his character who's just so self-absorbed, you see it's not going to work.

And that's just very interesting how he's just keeping that in the background until it becomes something that needs to be in the foreground. Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, it's pretty from the beginning of. And you get this with the conversations between me with her friends and all that. But she is looking for a relationship that's not there.

and then when she loses her family i suppose she is looking for it even more because she feels like she's lost everything she has nothing else at that yeah yeah exactly so she is desperately clinging on to him even though she i mean she's not stupid she can see where he's at because it's not like he's good at hiding it so uh and he just wants out of it he and and his friends are jerks too

It's funny because he wants out of it when he's with his friends. But when he's with her, he seems to be, you know, he's just one of those guys who's like a chameleon. He's going to sort of adapt. to every situation without ever committing himself either way. Yeah, because they're all telling him, oh, she's clingy, she's needy, and look how many times she calls you, and do you really have to take that call, and all of that, and he's kind of...

I don't know, kind of in the middle of it. He kind of wants out of it, but then again, I don't know, at the start of the movie anyway, he may still want to be with her, but he makes it clear later on that he does not. Well, we get some other scenes with him where we see he's kind of cutthroat in a lot of ways. You know, he's he's willing to kind of screw people over and doesn't have. Yeah. However.

I think it might just be even be because of the casting, even though this character is a total jerk, like he's still somehow likable. Like there's an element of them that's kind of like likable. And I honestly, I think it might just be the actor because he's just so like. I think with Will Poulter there, it's hard to like him less than you like Will Poulter. He pees on their ancestors. Was that subtitled at all? When that guy screams? Add him for peeing in the tree.

I don't remember. I don't think so. I'd have to go back. I didn't get to that portion while we watched it. I'd have to get back. He had words to say in Swedish. Can I, can I just jump in real quick? I just want to say something. So this, I tried rewatching Midsommar. I mean, I, want to definitely get the two wicker man and but i had obviously seen midsummer i know we covered it i guess back on what was it 176

I think. Is that right? Somewhere in there. You gave our original review on 170. So low. Yeah, and I don't remember what my rating was. I feel like it was in the 8 range. I feel like it was, but... I could be. I think that's also true. Okay. Okay. It's on your top 10. It was number nine or number eight was in the top three, like bottom three of my top 10. So rewatching it, I got through like the first 45 ish minutes.

I don't, it's going to be weird. I don't know if I've had this experience, at least not in a long time, where I love all the actors, even Will Poulter. I like the actors themselves and other things I've seen them in, if they're actors I've seen before. I like them in other things. Yeah, like all the Swedish actors. Of course, like totally all of them. Yeah. Okay. I almost don't want to rewatch it because I found everybody so freaking grating.

That I don't know what, I don't know who peed in my coffee. I don't know. That would have been Will Polter's character. Will Polter peed in my coffee. Right. Yeah. True. That's a good point. But. I just found every, I mean, I get your point about him, the actor, because I actually, wasn't he the guy who played the older brother and was a Sing Street?

He's the same actor, right? I think it is. And my wife and I saw that. I love that. I thought he was fantastic in that. But he is such a... douche nozzle yes absolutely he's such and here's the thing about her on one level you obviously get you obviously get where the grief and the trauma and everything she's going through but there's just something

about it they she's so and honestly my issues with her are not her grief and her just wanting connection all this i totally great i get it i want to like go in and hug her but it's like whatever she's being obviously treated the way she's being treated by others. She's so desperate to fit in, like to be accepted. And I get that. I get that.

She wants, she needs this relationship more than she's ever needed it before because you have that sequence at the beginning before she gets this news where she's talking to this friend and the friend's like, what the hell with him?

Just let him go. And she's like, well, maybe I'm pushing him away. So she has that a little bit with her, but not to the point that she's at least willing to talk to somebody about it, saying, hey, I don't think this is working out. I don't think it's going anywhere. Then she gets that traumatic news. Now that's all she's got.

Now she's going to do everything she can to hold on to that one relationship, even as toxic as it is. And it would be the best thing for her in the world to just dump this guy. She's going to hold on to it. I guess there's also the element, too, and I don't know, it may be unfair to compare it to Hereditary, because it's the same director, right? And it came out very shortly after, and Hereditary affected me, and I know a lot of people so profoundly, that...

There's something about it really jumped out at me this time, especially that the moment of extreme grief that. I'll say she because it's right at the beginning of the movie. So that she has that the way that plays out is very reminiscent of a key scene and sequence in Hereditary. The difference is though, the level of horror and just devastating emotion I experienced.

in hereditary was so much more profound. And I just, and something about it just really jumped out. I think it's because it happens so early. So you don't really have time to get to know her and the, the relationships and the dynamics. And I was going to say that I think it might be.

Cause this happened earlier. The one in hereditary was more what toward like the middle of the movie. Yeah. Half hour, 45 minutes. And the thing is, is that with this one, it's like, she has that moment and it's, it's again, it's that like guttural jizz. wailing and especially when she calls the boyfriend it's almost like there's a part of you that it's like the last thing i want to do is side with him because i do i think the guy is a total

douche nozzle. But on the other hand, she does come across... You kind of understand him. I understand the neediness, but then on the flip side, you feel really bad because you're like, you know what she just... got a call about right you know what she's going but i think it's because you have like you you said it's at the start of the movie you haven't really connected to anyone yet especially her yeah especially her yeah it plays a good part of it

That's actually, can I say, though, it's actually something I like about it because I think I agree with you. I think everyone is super great at the beginning of the movie. And you kind of get why all of them are in, but you know what that feels like? It feels like when you're kind of in a bad relationship, like you kind of get like, no one's really happy in this situation, but it's like all going on. And then.

As the movie continues, by the midpoint, I'm kind of sympathetic to everyone. I'm more sympathetic to her than the boyfriend because, again, he's a jerk. You know, by the time bad things start happening to everybody. I just, you start seeing the humanity in each of these people by that point, you know, where you're like, because, and I agree with you, like, I think they all do start out super great, but I don't, I think, I don't know, for me, it evolves. My feelings toward them evolve.

And I think the movie does this, where it shifts your perspective, and I think it's intentional. Because I think where it gets to in the final shot is somewhere you don't necessarily want to get to, but... the movie kind of convinces you of that character's perspective, for me at least. Yeah, and to be honest, I kind of felt that the only quote-unquote real uh individual in this one and the guy who is who actually who's actually happy to be there and genuinely wants to be there is josh

Because he's always helpful. And he's the one getting screwed over by, what is his name, Christian? Yeah. The boyfriend. And he's just, he's the reason they went there. Because it was his thesis, and the other two were just tagging along. Yeah. And he's genuinely interested in this. in what's going on and wants to know everything about it. And then he goes in to take photographs, and I was telling, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. And he did.

I gotta say, I love that actor, William Jackson Harper as Josh. He's in The Good Place, the TV show. Or is it the bad place? I can't remember the name of that show. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, I know what you're talking about. The Kristen Bell Moot show? Yes. yeah anyway he's good he's all the good plays yeah he's really good in that he also was in um that uh film we reviewed on the show recently um what was that one called they remain those kind of the

existential horror film. But anyway, yeah, I really enjoyed it. Oh, okay. But yeah, I think the cast is... I love this cast. It's a good cast. I mean, the fact that you feel that they're grating is... Because people do get on your nerves. I mean, in real life, even though you like them, they do get on your nerves once in a while. Peter, can you tell us anything about the Swedish cast? Were you familiar with those actors?

Some of them, yes. Okay, tell us about the ones that you're familiar with and what you thought. Yeah, the guy who plays Pele, the guy who kind of orchestrates it all, and I'm sure he's kind of, yeah, well, we'll probably get into that. But he's the one who has told them about this and that they should come. And he's actually happy that Danny's going.

I suppose he's the only one who's actually happy that she's tagging along, and I'm sure that's because he's orchestrating it and he knows what's going to happen. But he's played by someone called Wilhelm Blomgren, and he is... uh there's a new show over here a series tv series called clock clark and it's about a kind of notorious uh criminal called clock olofsson

uh here in sweden and this ties back to actually the the episode we did with weekend of terror on on turn the tube joel because we talked about the stockholm syndrome oh yeah Because in August 73, he was in prison, but there was a bank heist up in Stockholm where they were taking hostages.

And the guys in doing the Bank Heist called and they wanted this guy, Clark Eulesson, to be there. And this is kind of where that... that that syndrome comes from the stockholm syndrome because a lot of the hostages kind of sided with the criminals in that one so that ties into that one because we talked a little bit about that and let's see who else uh the guy who played uh i think that was the guy who screamed that they were

pissing on his ancestors on the tree. He got really mad there. He had words in Swedish, like I said, and they were not good. That guy is Henrik Norlén. And what I mostly know him from is he plays a character called Lasse Coulson in a series of movies, there's actually 20 of them right now, about a special forces policeman called Johan Falk.

And he's one of the men in that group. The first one was made in 1999, and the last one was in 2015. There are 20 of them. They're really good. Like a police special forces series.

And then I recognized the lady who plays Siv, kind of like the head, who's in that weird cabin with all the... Well, who tells Christian that he has to kind of... quote-unquote mate with maya yeah uh she's been in a lot of movies and uh let's see there's one called there's a old one from the 80s that i watched not that long ago on tv And she was in an episode of a series called Smash, which is a tennis comedy that was in the...

released here in the 90s it was super fun but i'm suppose i suppose people outside of swedish didn't wouldn't get the humor at all anyways i recognized her her too and those are kind of the the three character the three actors that kind of stood out. I mean, I recognize some of the others, but I couldn't place them anywhere. But I think that the guy who played, the one who screamed at him, Henrik Nolan, because he was in those 20 movies and I have all of them on my shelf.

I know you already did this on Land of the Creeps, but I'm dying to get you back to do a Nordic Horror episode at some point. I'm sure we can find something to talk about. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, so I guess what I would only add is that. Yeah, I love this movie. This is a film that I wasn't totally sure how I felt about it at first.

But it's grown on me. And every time I've watched it, which I've seen it four times now, including once with the director's cut, I've liked it more and more every time I've watched it. And this is becoming one of my favorite films, to be honest. Of the last several years, not of all time. How much longer is the director's cut? It's sort of legendary. It's almost like the director's cut of...

What was that? The Brad Pitt Western... Jesse James. The assassination of Jesse James with a coward Robert Ford. There was a much bigger, longer... Director's cut that changed the film. Obviously, Richard Donner's director's cut of Superman 2. Is it along those lines where it's just 171? Sorry, good. I apologize. No, go ahead. No, that's what I'm asking. It's 171 minutes is the director's cut. It's about 20 minutes.

25 minutes or so. It changes it significantly. I heard Ari Oster talking about it, and he said... you know he just knew he had to make it shorter for the theatrical and so he was actually very happy with the theatrical even though it did change a few key things he felt like in some ways it improved it to force himself to cut it you know like he thought and i agree

But I just, I'm someone who just, if I love something, I like more of it. You know, if I'm going to watch Lord of the Rings, I'd rather watch the extended Lord of the Rings or whatever. Like, I just want more of it if I like it. Yeah, of course, because there's no other versions. You can't watch the short versions.

Yeah. And so even though I did love the theatrical cut or I enjoyed it and I bought it, I think when I saw the director's cut, I was like, holy crap. Like, I don't know. I just really enjoy it. Even though, again, I think some things do work a little bit better.

and the theatrical, just as Ari Aster said, it's just cool to see more of something I'm enjoying. So, yeah, for me, this movie's gone way up. It was already my... number four when we did our top 10 it would definitely be my number three maybe my number two if i was to make my list again um this is just a movie i like more and i like it better than hereditary i mean i think hereditary is a better film objectively

I think Hereditary is kind of a masterpiece, and I don't know that this one is. But I do think when we're talking about folk horror and kind of this world, I think it is a film that's going to last, and I think it's going to remain significant. And there's also just so many million of easter eggs in it there's so much to discover in this film peter talked about it a little bit i'm curious you can't really just watch it once i mean i watched it once and i watched the theatrical version but

And I was sitting here thinking, should I take notes of all of the symbolism and all that? I thought, I'm just going to give up because there's... constant yeah it's chock full of some symbolism and it's like every bit of the i mean i've watched a couple of those like little like the top 10 easter eggs and you know like youtube videos or whatever and there's a there's a lot

like all of the production design all every mural every photograph it all it all flashes forward to something and it's all foreshadowing to something in the film or it's all the countryside is beautiful I'm also curious because we haven't been able to really nail it yet in our discussion. I don't think we will, but I know Ari Aster mentioned this, that he didn't want the audience to always know what was going on around them.

And so the lines that are in Swedish, you know, I think it was my perception having listened to Ari Aster and Peter can maybe and linus a little bit more that they basically like give away more of the plot if you understand the swedish before it happens like you can kind of tell where it's heading more if you know what they're saying because you under yeah exactly because they they talk about what's going to happen and all of that and

if you know Swedish, you do get it. And that's kind of, I think, a hard line to to walk doing movies like this if you wanted to be in a foreign language because there's always going to be someone who understands it and then it kind of you know i don't want to i don't want to say fail because it didn't really but

To some extent it did, because the mysticism is kind of... In America, or the English-speaking countries all over the world, you were supposed to think... what the hell's going on they're talking we don't understand what they're saying and you kind of have to go like like these four friends They don't understand what's being said if Pelle doesn't translate it for them, so they kind of have to go along with what they do, and I kind of appreciate that.

Being the fact that I did understand every line in every language being said, except when they were talking old Nordic thingy gobbledygook that they did. Not sure if that was real or not, because I couldn't really. translate and have that but for the most part 99 of the part it was uh swedish and i understood everything so that it kind of loses a little bit

I think in countries where you do understand Swedish, or if you do understand Swedish, of course. So you do understand more of what's going on, understandably.

well let's do some ratings um joel i know you gave us our original and you don't remember exactly what you gave it right i think it was around an eight and i will say just a last thing i wanted to pipe in real quick and say so i should finish re-watching it and i should just go ahead and just re-watch the director's cut think is what i'm taking absolutely i will i will do that oh and by the way let's let's address the fact that you brought up with old people jumping off cliffs oh yeah

Oh boy. It's called it. Well, do you want to hold that? Are we going to do a spoilery discussion or no? That was going to be about Wicker Man, to be fair. Well, is this kind of in the ending? It's kind of like in the middle of the movie, isn't it? It is the middle. It's probably the first really sort of strong. Shocking. Well, other than the very beginning with the family, it's a very strong, shocking moment.

Yeah, it is. Shocking violence. Should we go into it or should we wait? I think it would be okay too, but we might as well just wait. Okay. If you haven't seen the movie, it's a fun moment. Fun is an interesting description. Fun is maybe the wrong word. It depends on how old you are when you're watching it. It's fun you're going to have. It's a changing, it's a change of perspective. Fun if you're into large croquet mallets and Gallagher routines. Yeah, I'm a Gallagher fan.

Front row, wearing a poncho. Yeah, exactly. I'm assuming my original rating was in the eight range. I'll stick with that. I'll let my obviously crap attitude today go and just assume that if I were to rewatch it from beginning to end, it would still be in. that range. So for me, that's what it is.

Okay. And then would you recommend people buy it, stream it, rent it? I personally don't really want to own it, but I kind of feel that way about all Air Astros movies because I really appreciate them, but I find it very hard to rewatch them. So I don't, I think that if somebody loves it, Loves his films. Absolutely. Go right ahead. Add to that collection. But yeah, I don't know. For me, I'd much prefer to stream it and wait till I'm in the mood. All right. Let's go with Dave.

I'm going to probably come in with, I don't know what I was initially. I don't even know if I gave it since we do our top tens. I don't know that we give number ratings for these. I'm going to say probably a nine out of ten. I would say buy it. I own it, but I'm really, really anxious to check out the director's cut now. Because when I finally saw Dr. Sleep, I only saw the director's cut. So that's the only version of it that I have in my mind, and I loved it.

I'm really anxious to see the director's cut of this movie, just to see those changes. All right, let's see. I'm not sure that I ever reviewed it either because Joel did our initial review. Yeah, I don't think you did. Now think about it. And then we talked about our top 10, but I don't know if Dave and I ever did a post-mortem. Right. I'm sure we talked about it pretty in depth when we did our top 10s. But I think initially I probably would have given this something in the 8.5 range. I think...

Now, having seen it two more times and watched the director's cut, yeah, I think this is definitely in the nine range for me, especially the director's cut. And I would say if you've seen it once, Make your second view in the director's cut for sure. It's worth re-watching to see all of the additional footage. It's a lot more footage and it just fleshes out the world more.

And yeah, even though I think Hereditary is the better film objectively, I can't rewatch that a lot. It's just so disturbing. This is a world I love inhabiting. I love being in this world. I love seeing this stuff. I'm sorry, can you guys hear that phone in the background? A little bit. A little bit. Not too bad, unfortunately. Okay, I'll just keep going.

Um, I, I just enjoy being in this world a lot more. I say, you know, I'm a big subscriber to Jordan Peele's, um, I deal a core where you're in just kind of this beautiful location, but. horrible things are happening that is definitely something i love you know i much prefer that to like the grunger world of like a saw movie or something i i love when everything seems perfect and it's just there's something horrifying going on underneath

There's also the drug aspect that Peter touched on a little bit. I've seen that criticized in some reviews of the film. Mushrooms. Yeah, I've seen people criticize like, well... It doesn't have the same psychological effect because the character isn't going through it emotionally. They're going through it due to this drug induced state. But I kind of disagree with that. I think.

one thing i love about it and i think something that's true of this whole situation is these characters are just totally out of control like they are they they have no control of the situation there and i think the drug none whatsoever aspect yeah kicks that up a lot

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Something else I picked up with that drug scene. When you listen to what Pele was saying and what she's experiencing, you get... the idea early on of that connection between the two of them or at least between this community and her as to where things eventually go because she's experiencing what he's describing.

You could always say maybe he was implanting that in her mind or whatever, but none of the other characters experience that she does. So that's sort of an early setup. of where the movie eventually goes at the end, I thought. And watching it again, I didn't get it the first time, but I got it the second time. I think he kind of senses, because he really wants her to be there, and I'm...

Taking the movie for what it is. You almost get the feeling he orchestrated it without orchestrating it. You know where Christian is saying, oh, I invited her along. I don't know if she's going to go. Guys, you sort of put me up. You get the feeling that Pele might have. spurred him to do that without him realizing it.

Yeah, and I don't disagree with Joel. I think the characters are great in the beginning. I think by the midpoint, though, I'm just so invested in all of them. I'm so curious. I just love where this movie goes. Yeah, I think I give this one a nine and I would call it a purchase and I would say.

i don't know it's hard to say like which version is better i just want more because so i love the director's cut but if i had never seen it i don't know that i'd always recommend the director's cut first because it is a lot longer and requires i think it is already a movie that struggles a little bit with pacing and so

a longer version. If you're annoyed by the pacing, you might be even more annoyed if you watch the director's cut, but... i don't know i guess maybe if you've never seen it try the theatrical cut first and then the director's cut but definitely if you've already seen the theatrical i'd recommend checking out the director's cut peter bring us on okay

And just jumping with the director's cuts and longer versions of movies, we've had this discussion over on Retro Movie Geeks more than once. And me being in the... The one corner where I don't really mind watching the long and sometimes really long versions of movies that has the slower pace. Right, me too, yeah.

But then again, that is not with all movies. You have to be invested in the movie. You have to be interested in the movie. Because if you're not, you can't sit through a three- or four-hour movie. There's no way. uh for this one like i i talked to joel before you guys got online this is the first uh first time watch for me with mr yeah wow because of what joel alluded to before was that when people and i tend to be weird like that, I don't know, with a child, I suppose.

If people hype up a movie like this, everyone needs to see this and this is the best thing ever. And I kind of tend to, no, I'm not going to watch it now. You retro movie geek guys, man. Yeah. But, and that's why I mean, and the worst part is, this is not a movie that I was not going to watch. I was going to watch it. I just want to, I mean, waiting for the right.

time i suppose and then when everyone hyped it up i was like yeah i'm not gonna watch it now because everyone is watching this now i'm gonna watch something else and then you throw on joel are like there's no wonder that you guys are that we've podcasted for 10 years now

And then, I am going to watch it again. I'm going to buy it. I have Hereditary on my shelf, of course, along with a lot of other... stuff and i'm gonna watch the the longer version because i didn't feel this uh it's a slow movie yeah sure but i was never i was never bored with it because Again, it's just like with the Wicker Man from 73, not 2006, 73. You're kind of mesmerized and you want to see where this is going. And this is...

Well, it's either a bad trip or a good trip, but depending on how you look at it, I suppose. And it gets more trippy as you go along and with the imagery and everything. And we're not going into the spoilery territory, but oh my God. At the end, I was like, what the hell is going on here? Everything is moving weirdly. So I went into it not knowing what to expect at all. And I suppose a little bit of the mystery goes away since you understand all of it, but not so much that I didn't want to.

see more of it and i can see the part as a as a non-swedish speaker since you don't understand All that's going on, you really want to keep watching to see what happens. And I was never there. But it's an interesting movie. I am going to watch it again with the director's cut to see what changes it. And having experienced the Swedish summers, and I know this is not shot in Sweden, but it really does look.

like it was shot up north in sweden oh i didn't realize it wasn't a shot in sweden no it wasn't none of it is i think i'm not sure but most of it was shut down in and somewhere in europe oh interesting but it does look like uh some of the northern parts of sweden and When it's summer here, and it's really summer and it's not raining, like they call a traditional midsummer celebration here, it is...

You carry stuff out to sit in the garden under the sun to eat, and then it starts raining, then you carry it in, and then the sun comes out again, and then you carry all the stuff out. It's kind of like a running gag over here. Midsommar celebrations are done in the sun and in the rain. Do you want to hear where this movie was filmed, guys? Yeah. It was mostly filmed in Hungary. Budapest, Korda Studios, and...

It was also Danny's apartment was filmed in Brooklyn, New York. And then we don't know what was filmed there, according to IMDb, but it was also filmed in Utah.

Oh, really? Just shocking. But it looks like there's probably a majority filmed in Budapest or Hungary. Yeah, but Hungary, it's in Europe. So I think the... it looks kind of similar and i mean if you have a Swedish summer a really good Swedish summer is amazing it's so beautiful so uh and i like the aspect of that and i like watching the aesthetics of it and then i mean it's a horror movie set in sweden so i was interested in that so it looks good and the characters

Even though they're grading at the start, but like we talked about, they're supposed to be and people are kind of like that. You can't go through your whole life liking someone all the time. I'm sure there are moments when they switch around episodes on podcasts where you have to redo all of the stuff you've done before. You kind of think...

Come on. I know people who do that are such thoughtless jerks, aren't they, Peter? Yeah, right, Joel? They really are thoughtless jerks. All kidding aside, I love you, man. You know that. There's something about this movie. It's a long movie, but like with the original Wicker Man, it's hard to take your eyes off it.

yeah because there's so much and you have these shots where you see so much in the background yeah it's like you just set up the camera at the edge of this field and you see everything and you kind of have to see it more than once to do what the hell's going on over there Yeah. So, yeah. And it all matters. It actually all reflects back to the plot. Yeah, it does. Yeah. So, yeah, I enjoyed it. It's a drama horror. It's a slow moving.

slow-moving movie. Wow, that's two words. And if you don't enjoy that, don't watch it. But I am going to watch again the director's cut to see what changes, like you said, Josh. So, rating, oh God. I don't know, it's, yeah.

I don't know. It's, it's horrific. And we have a guy in a bear costume, like in the Wicker Man 2006. By the way, did I ever, did I ever tell you guys that, that story that I went and saw Midsommar with my, my buddy Tyson and he leans over to me at that part where like, I mean, anyway, the audience, he just leans over. and under his breath he goes to Durkin and I will say that may have put a bit of a

A little lightning to the horror of the moment. Oh, boy. No, I don't know. This is, I mean, it's a movie I'm sure. Will grow on me as I watch it several times because I am going to buy this. Give it a five. Give it a five, Peter. Give it a five. I can't. No, you know I can't do that. So I'm somewhere around a seven and a half, I think.

okay and it may it may grow watching the director's cuts so because it has its ups and downs i'm not going to say it's a it's a fantastic movie but uh yeah and it's and again Being a Swedish, like knowing Swedish, it is kind of hilarious at parts because you do understand what's being said. Just that whole going back to that again when he's peeing on that ancestral tree.

I kind of laughed out loud because he is, that guy goes into him. And yeah, he's not nice. The words said are not nice words. That made me laugh. If you've seen the movie and you want to get into some of the Easter eggs and deeper means that we kind of glossed over in our non-spoiler review.

There are some great YouTube videos. I don't have a specific one to tell people to check out, but there's a couple out there. There are a lot of really interesting ones. I can't remember exactly which ones, but the ones I'm looking at right now, there's one that's called The Secrets Hidden in Plain Sight.

In Midsommar? I think I watched that. That one was good, and I think the other one was called How Midsommar Brainwashes You. I think that one was good too, but there are several. I think I watched that too.

easter eggs midsummer like i think that for me those added a lot of value to the film too because it's like oh okay there's all this stuff that they're going on that i hadn't really i hope i i kind of hope this movie because again bear in mind this has nothing to do with a traditional midsummer celebration in sweden like at all right it has the maypole and it looks sim and they dance around not well

Again, some of them do dance around in the French, and we do dance around jumping around like frogs. So, goddammit, I can't really... Yeah, well to the extremes it has nothing to do with the Swedish traditional midsummer celebration. So if people are interested in that, I hope it kind of makes them go check out.

some of the traditions because that yeah i do that when i watch a movie and i thought yeah is this really is this really how they go about these things and then i go look into it and some of the times it's it is like they and for real or sometimes it's like just far out there, but I hope it piques people's interest to kind of look into it.

Yeah, I think and they also have that kind of plausible deniability where they're like, well, this is a fictitious cult. So, of course, it's not exactly real. And it's a 90 year only celebration. It's celebrated every 90 years. So, yeah. That's also a good backup plan. I can't remember if this one I saw too, but this one looks interesting in this YouTube video. It's called Audiovisual Nightmare, Midsommar's Audiovisual Tricks.

That sounds like a fun one, too, that I'm going to check out if I hadn't already. But anyway, yeah, there's a lot of really interesting theories and online content. It kind of messes with you in this movie. With the audio and visual. I just like it more and more the more I watch it. It's crazy. I wasn't totally sure how I felt about it the first time, but it just keeps getting better and better.

For me, anyway. Well, yeah, let us know if you liked Midsommar. I know I saw some of our listeners online say the opposite, that they had liked it the first time, but then upon revisit, they were just like, yeah, I don't get this anymore. So I'd love to hear what people think of this, and especially if you've seen the director's cut, I'm curious to hear people chime in about which version they prefer, if they do have a preference.

Peter, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure having you here. And before you go, we just would like to offer you this drink. It's a... It's a traditional drink we offer all our guests. I didn't pee in it. I swear I didn't pee in it. Well, if you didn't, I don't want it. Is there blood in it? He's got some clips of Joel's hair that was missing from his hair. Hey, by the way, I have no hair on my top of my head, Peter, so use your imagination. Oh, boy.

I feel oddly aroused now. God. Peter, tell everybody where they can find you and if it differs in any way from where they can find Joel. Well, I'm in Sweden and he's not. So that kind of is the only thing. But other than that, they can go to... RetroMovieGeeks.com and check out man children talking most of the time. We have guests on. We had quite a fair amount of guests this year, actually, to keep us on track.

doesn't always work but most of the time because the iq rises and they can go to well olden times on forgotten flicks and read some of my stuff and listen to well Basically, man-children there too, I suppose. And they can go there on the tube and listen to Joel, Elson and myself talk about... TV movies from the 70s and 80s and one from the 90s so far. With a woman child? No, she's... She keeps us in track. We're actually marginally more mature. Yes, we are. She elevates us. We actually tried...

Ha ha ha Yeah. Mom keeps us in place. And actually, you know, this is Allison. The original Wicker Man is one of Allison's favorite films, and that was always a film that I thought, well, if we review this, we have to get Allison on for it. Oops. Sorry. can get some kind of clip from her i don't know i'll cut this out if we can't but

That'd be cool because Allison joined us for our cult episodes and she did a fantastic job on those. If people haven't heard those, those are some of my favorite. I'll put links to those in the show notes if you want to two episodes about cults and I think Allison was only on one of them but it was incredible. Just did an incredible job. Absolutely. Let's see. where was i twitter oh yeah oh yeah and guest appearances on uh land of the creeps oh yeah with uh dave and and the guys we did that

What was it? Almost six hours on Nordic Horror. Almost six hours on Nordic Horror. I think when you started, we started at night for you and then the sun was up. I think it was the next day already. Yeah, I think it was somewhere around 6 a.m. when we finished. For me, anyway. But then again, we went through over 60 movies. Absolutely no offense. Wolfman, I do not want to go that in-depth.

I think we didn't, well, we did go in depth on some of the movies, but we had, I don't know, it was more than 60 movies we went through, so that took some time. And I was not the one falling asleep. Dave. Well, I think you kind of dozed off at one point. I may have. I do that on occasion. Once we hit around the four and a half hour mark, I tend to nod a little bit. Yeah. I went peeing a couple of times because I drank a lot of coffee. Depends. They can find me there. Depends.

Didn't think of that. I'm going to write that down. Bye. Depends for next show. And they can find me. Well, I've been on one episode over on Nathan and Bill's. on the phantom galaxy we talked about some weird christmas movies i think i won picking the one i did and people can go check that out i'm not gonna spoil anything you have to go listen to it and then i'm

I'm fairly often over on Hugh's podcast, The Undead Wookiee, where we talk about some weird and some not so weird. Mostly horror and science fiction. So that's... I think I hit all the notes. And then there's Facebook and Letterboxd and Instagram and all that. The best thing about being on used podcasts is the time difference is not nearly as severe.

time okay when you're on when you're on you's podcast you you what is it a couple hours as opposed to six seven hours it's only one there's six hours between us right now and there's five hours between you and you. So he's an hour. I'm an hour ahead of him. So yeah, it works. Silence. Do we lose Wolfman? I'm sorry, I was muted. We appreciate the sacrifice to get online with us. I know you do this with Joel all the time. This is not a sacrifice. This is fun.

Well, you know what? It's been fascinating because this show is so different from Retro Movie Geek, but for some reason, all three of you guys just elevate. I think you all bring so much to the show when you've been on this show. I love having all three of you guys on. on this as much as we can get you. So we should do it again. And I don't know if there's anything left to bring to Nordic horror that you didn't get out on land of the creeps, but if so, well, we, I mean, we,

Like we said, we didn't really get in depth on more than a couple of them. So we'll do a deep dive. We'll pick a few choices on them. Yeah. We could actually do Midsommar from 2003. Oh, yeah. Which I kind of like better than this one. Oh, well, wait. What is that one? It has nothing to do with this. It just takes place on Midsommar. And it's more of a traditional Midsommar celebration. It's a Danish-Swede. Yeah, it is.

I really like that. Wolfman's mind blown. It's not easy to find now. I think I can find one with... English subtitles because that's hard to find nowadays.

okay so we haven't really done this is like something i've always wanted to do during our versus episodes we never have really done it let's give it a little shot really quick let's actually say let's put these movies up against one another um and you have to rank them or something i don't know what do you think like um and now and peter i would love to hear um how you rank the other midsummer from 2003 did you say it was love it

There's also, which we alluded to, there's another movie called The Wicker Tree that's directed by the same director of the 73 Wicker Man. It came out in 2011, and I own the DVD, but because I don't live in my home right now.

um i didn't have access to it i wasn't gonna buy a second copy of it so but um i'm really curious also if anyone's seen the wicker tree to let us know how they uh thought that added or subtracted to the world of the 73 wicker map but um what do you guys say like uh let's start with joel here um

How do you match these thumbs up against each other? So Wicker Man versus Wicker Man, you're being serious? Wicker Man versus Wicker Man versus Midsommar. Okay, yeah. Versus anything else that it's like, for me, I'm going to, you know, Fuzz. Peter's going to bring in the other Midsommar. I'll focus on these three. I would say for me, 73 Wicker Man, Midsommar, and then no offense to anyone here. Distant third. 2006 Wicker Man. Yeah, I think you're kind of correct on that one.

Anybody have a differing point of view on that? No, I was going to say, even though I was much kinder to the 2006 Wicker Man than Joe was, I would come, obviously, exactly in that same order that he is.

yeah and for me um obviously the wicker man 73 is the classic but if i'm like so you know to me it's just like it has that iconic status of just like it's a 10 no matter what but for me right now like if i was gonna watch one it would be midsomar like that's it's just kind of captured my imagination right now you know so I don't know. Those are pretty close for me in my versus ranking. So, Peter, where would Midsommar 2003 rank here for you? Hang on. I had myself on me. Damn it.

With the other, with Wicker Man and Wicker Man? With Wicker Man and Midsommar, where does it slot in for you? Well, the order Joel put these three in. is the correct order i think but yeah the mid and and again comparing the midsummer from from 2003 to this one is you can't do that because they're in two entirely different movies right the other one is more of like

Shit, I can't say that because that will spoil everything about it because you don't know this from the start. So I'm not going to say what it's about. Wow. I really like, I like the actors in it. Thanks again, Peter. We really appreciate it. We hope to have you back soon. It's one of my favorites. It's, um, It's more of a traditional horror, I suppose. It's like comparing children, but I like that better than The New Midsommar.

It's more easily accessible, I suppose. So it's more straightforward. And yeah. Well, thanks again, Peter. We really appreciate it. And we hope to have you back soon. My pleasure.