HMP 223: At Your Mercy and Tribute to William Friedkin

So, yeah, my friend Jerry is conducting this experiment where she, whenever she engages with a chatbot, with an AI chatbot, she will try to get them to hallucinate, and I was like, hallucinate. What are you talking about? And she was like, well, you know, chatbots are programmed to keep you engaged in a conversation until they feel the ticket is resolved. So instead of going directly to the finish line, what she'll do is like contact Home Depot and start chatting with one of the bots on,

you know, if you click the help bar on it, you're talking to an AI. And she will start edging the conversation towards a rare subject that, you know, she knows a lot about, but almost everybody else doesn't. And in her case, it's horse racing. Like she grew up around horse racing and she knows a lot about horse race horses. And she will start throwing out fake facts or asking the AI what it thought about a fake race or stuff like that. And the AI will lie. And she'll say, oh, yeah,

that was a close one or something like that. And that's it. You know, then she's one, I guess, you know, but that's, you know, that's the idea. Yeah, the LCAI like is it is actually hallucinating or is it just talking crap? It's talking out of its butt. It's just, it's just like, oh, I have to chat with human now. And catch me if you can. Yeah, I think that's my favorite old trope, though, the way to defeat a robot is

just confuse it until its head explodes. Yeah, it's very Captain Kirk, isn't it? Yeah, it's, this is useful. This will come in handy when they actually like decide to all to euthanize all of us at once. If you can talk the bot out of gassing the vents in your house, maybe you'll survive, at least for a little while, until then the, you know, the scavenger ships come around to take us

off to the brood farm. And with that, everyone, welcome to horror movie podcast where we're dead serious about horror movies and slightly less serious about making chatbots hallucinate. This is HMP Episode 2 23. It's an at your mercy episode and a combination with a Frankenstein episode. I'm one of your hosts, Nathan Bartleball, and I'll be joined very shortly by my other co-host, including Trey Wetzdon, Victor Rodriguez, and Matt Wrongs will be joining us as we dive into our

at your mercy episode. We've got a piece dedicated to the late William Freakin, the director of the exorcist who passed away over the summer. We also have a lot of reviews from films over the summer that we got a chance to see but hadn't covered on the podcast yet. So this is a bit of a catchup episode. We have been away for a little bit, but we are planning a regular schedule now. So the good news is that you'll be getting weekly episodes of HMP starting with this release date.

And for the month of October, you'll be getting to each remaining week of October starting with today, Friday the 13th, where you're going to get this episode and another episode that covers our fall preview. I know a lot of new reviews as well, including a review of a movie that is just dropped, that's been sort of hanging in limbo for a while. It's just dropped on streaming today,

so you can check that episode out as well. I want a quick mention that the other episodes were the month of October are going to focus on kind of the spooky season, October, Halloween, and in that vein, what we're going to do are themed episodes. We have four themes. I'll mention them up front now and we're going to release two a week. We've got four in total. The first one is going to be a episode that's dedicated to Apar or Primate Har. We cover monkeys, we cover

apes. We kind of left the bad boons to Jay the Dead's new horror movies, but we have a lot of stuff there, including a retrospective on King Kong that's celebrating a really big milestone this year in 2023. And on that episode, you'll hear our guest Greg Bench. And after that, we've got three more episodes, one about haunted places where each of us will pick two horror movies related to haunted places. We have an episode on witches and we have an episode on Halloween related films.

So films that take place or feature Halloween in some degree. And you'll have those coming out leading up to Halloween and culminating with right before the holiday. So you have those things to look forward to. We are excited about this particular show, the At Your Mercy segment. Over the summer, we threw out an invitation for people to mention movies that they wanted us to review. Old, new, whatever. We got a lot of titles and we picked four of those titles. A special treat

is the At Your Mercy segment you're about to hear. We'll also feature the return of host emeritus Dave Dr. Shock Becker, who joins us to talk specifically about one of our At Your Mercy choices that you'll hear in just a moment. Before that, we're going to hear from yet another HMP alum. In fact, the one who started it all, Jay of the Dad Jay Piles, who's going to bring us two quick horror reviews of films that you can actually track down and watch on streaming now.

Later, we'll also hear from Bill Van Vegel with his Terror on Toobie selection. It's got a good one for you this time. And then you will hear us, then you'll hear Trey and I do a couple of movie reviews and then we will culminate with the Peace on Freakin and we review some more films as well. So I hope you enjoy the episode. As always, please check us out. You can find us over at Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. I'm not calling it X. You can catch us everywhere that Pod Catchers

catch podcasts. Please check us out. Thank you for listening. And with that horror movie podcast is back and I'm going to turn it over to Jay of the Dead. Hi, this is Jay of the Dead host emeritus of Horror Movie Podcast where we're still dead serious about horror movies. Now first, I have an under the radar under appreciated true gem for you from 2008. It's called Untraceable. It was released in theaters in January of 2008 and in fact, it was released one week after

Cloverfield. Now Untraceable was directed by Gregory Hobblet, who also directed films like Fracture, Hearts War, Frequency, Fallen and Primal Fear, just to name a few. Now some people probably won't consider Untraceable to be a horror movie. I would classify it as a drama first, suspense thriller second, and then horror movie because I do think it gets there. And here are my best comparisons just to give you a sense of it. This is a police procedural investigation mystery

type movie so it's along the lines of seven and the silence of the lambs. So at the very least, it's got that dark crime thriller vibe. Some people would probably call this a Saul ripoff, which would be very dismissive. But I get it because by the point Untraceable was released, there had already been four Saul releases. Admittedly, I have no doubt that this was greenlit due

to the financial success and popularity of Saul, of course. But listen to Jay of the Dead when I tell you Untraceable is not derivative, which is to say it's not merely a ripoff or a poor man's Saul. Okay. And one more little Easter egg of proof that Untraceable is a horror movie. At one point, our lead stays in a hotel room and it is room 237. Coincidence? I think not. So here's the premise. No spoilers. Diane Lane, not Ashley Judd, but Diane Lane stars as Jennifer Marsh,

a detective who works for the FBI, Cybercrimes Division, and Portland, Oregon. She goes about her daily work catching bad guys and scammers who defraud people online or sickos who are purveyors of Kitty porn until one day a creepy new website appears online. It is killwithme.com. And on this site, some weirdo starts out small with live streaming the torture and eventual death

of an animal and then graduates onto human victims. And here's the nasty part. The victims are captured in various traps Allah saw where the more viewers who visit the website to watch this sadism unfold, then the faster the trap works to kill the captive victim. Hence the name of the site kill with me. So that's basically the premise you've got a psycho serial killer whose killer website is gaining popularity fast, which means each additional victim is killed faster and faster

as the world continues to log on and watch all of this happen. Will our heroine, Jennifer Marsh be able to stop the madness? You get a watch and see. Anyway, the main theme to this film seems to be the concept of collective voyeurism. The kill with me concept reminds me of something they used to fascinate Alfred Hitchcock, which was the way that the audience or viewers participate in the voyeurism of Norman Bates by watching his murders that makes them an accomplice, meaning us,

that makes us an accomplice by sharing in the guilt of the murderer. So in untraceable, everyone who tunes into the website contributes to powering the murder device. It's like fuel. So I love the way this movie explores that implication of our voyeuristic society in this internet age. And yeah, since this is a film from 2008, it is a little dated technology-wise, but I'm sure you can still appreciate it. Quick casting note. In addition to Diane Lane, not Ashley Judd.

Untraceable also stars Billy Burke and Colin Hanks. Yes, Tom Hanks son. And it's crazy to see, but in this movie it also features Jesse Tyler Ferguson, who you will know as Mitchell in modern family, and Christopher Cousins, who plays Ted on Breaking Bad. That's wild to see them in this context. Oh, and I just gotta say, I love the reveal of this killer's motivation. And though it's not the same thing at all, it does remind me somewhat of the madman logic behind the quacking duck

killer and Fulcis, the New York Ripper. With bottom line here untraceable from 2008, it's an 8.5 out of 10 for me. And for most of you listeners, I'd call it a strong rental recommendation for you, but for me, it's a buy. I own it and I watch it once every year too. So that's untraceable, 8.5 out of 10. Okay, well this next one is a nasty little number not for the faint of heart. It's called Raise R-A-Z-E as in when you raise a building, which means the completely destroy it.

But in the sense of this film, we're talking about raising or destroying other human beings. And in fact, it's women to be precise. Raise is this dark-natured little indie flick from 2013. It was directed by Josh C. Waller, and here's the premise. No spoilers. Get these women who are captured in prison in some sort of underground black market super elite aristocratic betting ring, where the captive women are paired in one-on-one versus matches where they must fight to the death.

So think bare-knuckle MMA, no rules, no holds barred, brutal, bloody, and literal mortal combat. But what motivates these total strangers to fight the death? Well, the mysterious shadowy game runners have surveillance on the captive ladies, as well as on their loved ones at home. And so if the gals don't fight, then their loved one dies. They always pick their favorite loved one like their daughter or whatever. And so if they lose a fight, meaning they die in the

fight to the death, their favorite loved one still dies. So if you don't fight, your loved one dies. If you do fight and you lose, meaning you die, your loved one dies. And only one woman at the end will survive the whole ordeal. And if she does, her loved one lives, and she is freed as well. Now I don't know if I'm just getting soft-hearted in my old age, but this movie is brutal. These fights look so painful. It makes me wince, and it's cringy-inducing. Some of the women

in this, their characters are very tough, they're good fighters. I mean, they've been hand-selected for their abilities, and some of the women aren't. So sometimes you can really pit a full massacre, which is hard to watch. The ladies cast in this movie are quite lovely, and you'll recognize a few of them. But the one to note is Zoe Bell, who plays Sabrina, she is our protagonist.

Although we do sympathize with most of the other girls as well. And I think most horror fans will be familiar with Zoe Bell because she's a stunt woman and an action star from New Zealand. She's been in tons of stuff. But aside from Ray's here, my favorite work of hers is her stunt work in the Grindhouse double feature films, Death Proof, and Planet Terror. Oh and before I forget one more note about casting, we get to see the legendary Doug Jones. And of course, I know

you know him, he's very famous for his monster work. It is usually done under lots of makeup and prosthetics. But in this film, we actually get to see him just play a human, he's just a dude. Now, serendipitously, and very coincidentally, I did not do this on purpose, but Ray's has a very similar theme as untraceable, which is that immoral implication of being in a complex

to transgressive type voyeurism. And Ray's really works for me on two different levels. First, you got these awful rich elites who are essentially paying and betting on these kidnapped victims who are coerced to murder one another. You got despicable and exploitative rich voyeur's, and that's one level. And then the second level is I felt bad about myself as a human being, just watching these fairly realistic depictions of women raising one another. It just made me feel icky.

Anyway, the film is called Ray's pretty simple concept, but it is effective. And this one really works, and it's a horror film throughout all the way to the end, and I especially appreciate and respect the ending. So for Ray's, I'm coming in at a 7 out of 10. I'd call this a rental. If you think you can take all the gal on gal for rocious cat fighting violence, that's it. So I just want to thank Pastor Matt, the Velocipaster himself, and Jackson Rollings, as well as Nate, Victor, and

Tray, for giving me this opportunity to do these little guest segments. I love it, and I hope you're all digging it too. And before I run, just have two quick notes. If you haven't checked out Jackson's new album yet, do me a favor go to Spotify. Their band is called Anosmic A-N-O-S-M-I-C, and that word means having no sense of smell. But don't worry, they've got a great sense of rhythm. And in fact, this is my new workout jam. I use this at the gym when I'm on the treadmill.

Their album is called Cruciality. In fact, that's the name of the title track. And I dig that song, but my favorite song is called Black Snow Sky. So check it out, Black Snow Sky. I dig the vibe. So check them out, everybody. And Anosmic on Spotify. And as for me, I'm still horror podcasting over with my eight co-hosts at J of the Dead's new horror movies. You can find it at new horror movies.com. This is J of the Dead. Over in Owlton.

We got, we had a period of time that when we had so many bats, but my wife just, she was terrified at first, then she got to be such a pro because all you need to do if they get into your house is just open a door. And they follow the airflow and they just fly out. Yeah, I guess the whole thing blind is a batsett. They're looking for something. They don't want to be in there anymore than you want. No, they're usually if they come into a house, they were chasing an insect.

Right. And I know they're good. Everyone says, oh, bats are really good. They, you know, but you know what, they just creep the hell out of me. Yeah, but that's true. But they do, they eat mosquitoes, they eat flies. Yeah. So they're really good, but you know, we have an umbrella in our back deck. And I was sometimes my wife will put it up and, you know, on the, on the, and three bats will fall out of it, hit the table and fly off. Yeah.

Anyway, there's, yeah, this, uh, I guess get into it real quick is it's from a radio show. And it was from a station out of either Bethlehem Roundtown, which has tons of bats up that way. Big bat problem for a long time. A woman is in her house and she had just gotten home from work. And she noticed there was a bat in the house. Well, she didn't do anything about it because it's happened to her before. So what she did was, um, she got everything ready for the next day.

Um, she had like an automatic coffee maker. She got her suitcase ready. Got everything ready for the next day. She programmed the coffee. So it would be poured by the time she got down there. And, and uh, that was that. She woke up the next morning. No bat. She figured, okay, got out. She drank her coffee and uh, went to work. Came back later, started to do the whole thing again, pulls out the filter from the

coffee. There's the bat in the coffee filter. It had cooked and she drank the coffee with the bat. Oh, in there. So she took it to the vet. Well, they couldn't tell because it was cooked if it had rabies or not. So she had to go through all the treatments. Oh, that's awful. Yeah, for the for the rabies and but just imagine that you pull it out and you realize you drank the coffee. Uh, yeah, that's the rabies. I'm not worried about I read an article when we were having a bad

problem that something like less than 0.1% of bats actually have rabies. But I think I'd rather have the rabies shots than drink bat in my coffee. I think so too. Yeah, I just remember hearing that store and it's like that's like you just imagine that your tolerance for bad coffee is so high. You can drink one with a tattoo or a bad. I guess. I guess. That's because you've been drinking Dunkin' Donuts coffee all the time. Yeah, Folgers. I think I'd rather have bat coffee.

Oh, man. Well, everyone now that we've had our we've had Dave's bat story and with this segment is an at your mercy segment. So we have some movies that were submitted by you the listeners for us to review and for this segment on Pastor Matt. We have with us the horror historian who from Columbus, Ohio, even though I've never heard him raise his voice. He is screaming through the ages. Mr. Tre Wettstone. Yeah, you haven't been here at home Matt. Okay.

And we have the Pacific Northwest author extraordinaire, the man with the silky smooth voice, vicious Victor Rodriguez. Hello there. And of course the fearsome film critic from outside of Baltimore, Maryland, Nathan Bartoball. Hey, how's it going everyone? And we are so glad to be joined by one of eight chimps OGs, one of one of our hosts emeritus, Mr. Dave, Dr. Shock Becker from outside

of Philadelphia, PA. How are you Dave? I'm doing well and it's good to be back on and yeah, I'm looking forward to to discuss this this movie that I'm on for here tonight because I actually got a chance to watch it again just just recently. I mean talking like it just finished up maybe five minutes ago or five minutes before we started recording Nathan had gotten in touch and we said, Hey, do you want to join us? Oh, look, it's an hour and a half and I think I can

squeeze this movie in again. So yeah, it's but it's not I think we should tell people we're going to be covering the private eyes from 1980 to begin with with Tim Conway and of course the great tonnots. Yes. And this is not an easy movie to find if you don't own it though, correct? Yeah, and I have to confess I wasn't able to find it. I found a less than reputable site carrying it,

but I couldn't handle the buffering so I wasn't able to catch up with this one, unfortunately. But yeah, it's kind of a weird situation and it's funny that you know, Dave, you took a hitist and you're like, I'm going to be a listener for a while and the movie that brings Dave back is the

private eyes. But it was it's funny because I think this was probably recommended because like about a month or two ago, it suddenly popped up on prime and I watched it with the kids and then someone tray, I think it was Dan Johnson recommended it and it was funny like he recommended like a day after we watched it and it was on prime and as soon as we made up our minds to like cover it is

one of our movies. It went, oh, gone. And you're right. It is almost nowhere else. My daughter like hooked up her Roku and was like, oh, Dad, I found it on some some weird little dinky app on the Roku. It was like, I can't remember what was called now. I think it's the Roku channel and I found it thanks to her. Yeah, it was art something and was like, yeah, the the like subset was. But whatever if you search Roku, you can find it. It's on there. It's not an amazing quality,

but hey, you can watch it. It's a movie that back in 1980 and I may be muting in and out because my wife's demon possessed puppies all of a sudden decided that I don't know fast watch or something is outside. I back in 1980, I was eight years old and our family didn't have a whole lot of money. My older brothers had just gone off to college. I went to the movies I remember even though we lived right down the street from a local cinema, we went to the movies four times a year.

My older sister took me to see the Empire Strikes Back and Superman II and my dad took me twice. Wants to see Flash Gordon, which you can hear Jackson and I and Nathan and Bill rave about over on Phantom Galaxy and the private eyes. It didn't hit me till later. I wasn't very introspective or reflective at H8 that my dad grew up with Flash Gordon. He was born in 1937

and that's why he wanted to see it. I don't think he liked the movie very much because he was shaking his head when we walked out, but he was also a huge fan of the Andy Griffiths show and of the Carol Burnett show. He couldn't wait to see the private eyes. Very cool. I saw it on the big screen as well. My father was taking my brother and I to see Jerry Lewis's triumphant return to the cinema. He had been away for a while and he did the

movie hardly working. It was sort of a sensation because a lot of people wanted to go see it. So when we got there, there was a long line and it slowly got back to us that it had sold out and we were not going to get to see hardly working. So my father said, well, let's go see the other movie and it happened to be the private eyes. And to be honest with you, we're much luckier that we got to see the private eyes because when we saw hardly working, it sucked. I mean, it is terrible.

I was going to say I'm sure the line the next week wasn't that long. Probably not. No, once the word of mouth starts to get around that this thing was a dud. Yeah, I'm sure the lines are much shorter. We could have seen it the next week and I'm kind of glad we didn't. But we did go to see the private eyes and I would have been in 80 at this point. I would have been 11, probably 11 years old at this point. And I enjoy, I mean, I at that time, I loved it. I thought,

wow, this is like I, well, we'll get into that in a little bit. But I also have the DVD. And I do see that there is a DVD available of this out there. I don't know if it's like it's 2299. That's quite a bit. There's also a multi format. Is it also on blue? It is. There is a blue ray of this out there. Is there a 2499 of blue? Right. I've had this DVD for a long time and I was it actually has a commentary with Tim Conway and the director. Nice. Which is kind of cool,

you know, with not being with us anymore. And look at this. If you wanted to buy the private eyes, you know, they suggest other movies on Amazon. It also recommends the ghost, blue ray of the ghost of Mr. Chicken. And another movie I loved as a kid. And every time it was all my mother would let me know and I'd watch it. The incredible Mr. Limpet. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's not. It's a good one. But anyway, I hadn't seen this movie in so long. I did

find it online. I think I saw this in the theater and then a couple of years later, my maternal grandparents had HBO before we did. I think I saw it in HBO and probably like 81, 82. It was playing one there around that time. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't see it again until about a week and a half ago. All I remembered about it was the business card between the ladies, breasts, and the Wukilar. The Wukilar. Yep. I remember the horse nears. Oh. Oh, Victor, had you seen this before?

No, I saw this a couple of weeks ago just to prepare for the show. And yeah, I am though a huge Don Nots and Tim Conway fans. So I was very easy to please when it came to this movie. And they'd start together. You know, they had paired up before and the one of the I think one of the better ones, the Apple dumpling gang. Yeah. That's where I knew them from when I saw this and I saw this on VHS in the 80s, probably like 1987. So it was probably similar.

Age you two guys when you saw it in the theater and we have rented it probably rented from the library. It was a weird combo because we rented this and the event, the adventures of young Sherlock Holmes, which is the Spielberg produced movie. And it's like I think Barry Levinson directed it. And it's a lot of fun too, but they're both they're kind of in that same vein, but private eyes are so different in that regard because it's sort of in a it's got it. It's like

right at the sort of bridge between two different. It's it's clearly referencing a lot of really older movies, but in the 80s a lot of people love movies like Clue, which come out after this and they follow in the same format. Yeah. Yeah. There was a sub genre that was really popular in around 1980, which was like the old dark house slash mansion movie. And Clue is one of those and this is another one.

There's a couple more that are murdered by death was before after this. I loved murder by death. I think that's a fun movie. Yeah. Yeah. A Gene Wilder did one was a he and Gulder Rattner. It was haunted honeymoon. Yep. Dom De La Wies was like the matriarch. Yes. I thought you were going to say the adventure of Sherlock Holmes, smarter brother. I've seen that one too. Yeah. That might be my favorite Dom De La Wies. I love it that to kind of

get in. If people haven't seen it, Don Nott's and Tim Conway are inspectors from from Scotland Yard. Yeah. Yeah. It makes no sense. They've been they've been booted off the police force in the United States and somehow get hired by Scotland Yard. And they receive a note specifically requesting that they come investigate the death or supposed death of this Lord who has his huge castle. And you know, he supposedly writes the letter and requests them, which means it's his ghost or

he's alive. And they go and they meet the the aeros, the adopted daughter and who is pretty easy on the eyes. Yes. But the rest of the staff is absolutely back crap crazy. Especially Bernard Fox. Bernard Fox. Every time I see Bernard Fox, I think of him in a Zlatter Day role in the mummy when he was the old like a general that was just waiting out there in the desert for one final like piece of that. I remember that. I think I think of that. I also

think he used a he used ever occurring role one Hogan's heroes. That's right. Yes. Yeah. But he goes crazy every time he hears is it murder? Yes. Yes. That he goes crazy and always wondered if if Carl Reiner and Steve Martin lifted that for dead men don't wear plaid. We're Steve Martin loses it every time he hears the words cleaning. Yeah. Possibly. That's

because it might after this one. Yeah. Exactly. And so you've got this whole cast including the maid who accorded her was hired because the owner, the Lord, like to watch her walk. And so they begin investigating and you've got this person or person's clad and black kind of chasing them around and that's and basically Vaudevillean high jinx in suit. Would you guys agree with that? Yeah. That's pretty accurate. Very much so. In fact, most of the jokes and that was

common. I mean, coming out of the early 80s and the 70s so many of those sitcoms had writers who had grown up with when they were kids Vaudeville. And so they stole so many of those jokes for 70s TV shows and Tim Conway was one of them. I mean, he was friends with Pat McCormack who was notorious for his off screen behavior as well as his comedy writing. Don't know who Pat McCormack was. He was what his day biginess and smokey and the bandit. Yes. No. That's right.

But he's also the guy who supposedly walking down Manhattan when a lady came up and asked for directions. The unzipped his fly took out his penis and used the veins to show her the way to where she was going. That was Pat McCormack. Pat McCormack was also the guy who was part of this writer's. He was the one who privatized. Yeah. So he was just notorious and Gilbert Godfrey told a story about that Pat McCormack had once hired a helicopter for his buddies. He said he was

going to fit. He was going to serve them the best dinner they ever had. And so they show up to a helicopter pat at LAX and each one of them gets on the helicopter and hands them a tuna fish sandwich and an apple. They're like, what is this? Well, there was a prostitute in the helicopter. And the prostitute would pleasure the writer while they buzzed

one of the producers' houses that they couldn't stand. And so, and then Gilbert Godfrey had always heard this story and wondered if it was true because he knew they were paying Pat McCormack for friends. And so he walked up to Tim Conway and said, I got to ask you about Pat McCormack. And Tim Conway

just looks like someone goes, hella a helicopter story? Yeah. But it was just, I do think that with all the faults his film had, the jokes are like silly, vaudevillian and you know, it's the that gum that goes off every hour and you know, all that kind of all that kind of stuff that at the end, I just think that even though the jokes are corny and so forth and maybe some of this is just pure nostalgia because I also loved Don Nott's and Tim Conway. But their chemistry together,

I think is great. Yeah. I agree. I agree. And it's funny because when I saw as a kid, I loved it. And I'd watch it on HBO all the time and I'd fall in love with it again, but I was a kid. And that's kind of what it's geared at. It's not quite the Apple Dumbling Gang. There was a little bit of adult humor in it, you know, not nothing that can still be. But you're right. Yeah. It's just a little bit more adult than the Apple Dumbling Gang. But then I got it. I got

to DVD and I reviewed it for the blog and I didn't like it. All of a sudden it just felt flat for me. I'm like, I don't know what I saw in this. And you know what? I saw I wrote my review. It's not glowing. It's not a very great review. And then I watched it again tonight and I loved it again. All of a sudden I'm laughing at it now. More than I left at it after. And I don't know what happened in between. But I'm laughing again. When that gun went off when they're in the house,

I cracked up. And I think when he threw the pigeon out the window. That that joke never stopped being funny to me. Stuffed a pigeon. And like it, my putty sits it down next to like a chicken there about to roast or something. And he's concerned about it's like, you know, it's going to be upset. And this stuff is stupid. I know what you mean, though Dave, because I had a similar thing when I watched it as a kid. I guess we should talk about this because

we're all reviewing on horror movie podcasts. Like it's not really a horror film. But it is definitely like a Victor said it's built in the Old Dark House tradition. So it does have some horror elements. And I think a lot of the comedy is very strange. Like it is not not strange. But it's also strange. It's very forced sometimes. Yeah. But it's also very weird comedy. And I think it stems from those two guys like that Wukalaer stuff. Like I don't never heard of a Wukalaer before.

And they never explain what a Wukalaer even is. You figured out towards again. Tim Conway keeps like changing what a Wukalaer is. That's a weird joke to have in that movie where there's no frame of reference other than him to talk about Wukalaers. No one else stops him and says what the Wukalaer like it's like an accepted thing. And and Don not finally is like there's no such thing as Wukalaers after listening to him talk about it. But like that's a weird joke to have

in a movie because they don't explain it whatsoever until the end. And that ending creep me out as a kid because the only part of the movie I first saw I turned it on and like I see this two guys get like you know what happens at the very end. And I was like oh wait this is a comedy. Yeah. But I think it's just the weirdness of the of the humor because the jokes don't always make sense. And you're like why was that funny? And a lot of it's just the look on Don not's face

or some weird little thing that Tim Conway is doing with his hands or whatever. And he just throws that bird right through the glass. The whole idea is like I don't know why do I have a gun you know it's like a gun with a timer on it makes no sense. Like there's no if you like some day yeah if I got to shoot someone every hour. Yeah. And this is just just so you guys know that

are listening. This is a period piece said in like the 1940s. And the gun with the timer on it is a is a cult M1911 with an alarm clock attachment somehow that makes the gun go off every hour. That's that's the kind of humor we're dealing with. Right you've increased your opportunity to be shot and killed. Right. By 24 hours in a day. But one day it might save your life. Right. Yeah. Hey I made it into that joke and I thought that joke was pretty fun. Honestly.

At least one time I saw it. Well they do it about 17 more times. Yeah. But when it goes off the first time in the and the house and it scares the the woman. Yeah. I left this time. I did. I left this time. There were I left I left quite a few times at this all you know I was enjoying the human. There is one I would say legitimate jump scare.

Yeah. It's yeah I agree with you Nathan some of the if it wasn't for those selling the jokes if it wasn't for Tim Conway and Don Nots like if they had chosen to make this in the 90s with another pair of younger comics I don't think it would have worked at all. No. No and you can see that in the 90s in fact Lucas attempted something along some of the lines of radio land murders. There's nothing terribly wrong with that movie but there's nothing right with it either.

You know I think Brian Benben was a star and had a lot of people in it but the jokes just sort of fall flat because they didn't you're right there there there would be no one there to sell them the way these guys do. There's there's and they're a big in TV obviously. What are the most interesting

things about the book Cinema Speculation? The Quentin Tarantino's book is he dedicates the list chapter to this guy who when he was a kid and hung around his mother lived with these other women and they all shared an apartment and Quentin lived there with him and there was this guy come over the South African American gentleman who was romancing one of the women and apparently he ended up like just he wasn't very dependable and he would say he loved movies like Quentin Tarantino

love movies and even wrote a screenplay that Tarantino said was not too bad it was like I'll forget he Western but anyway this guy they were sitting in a restaurant him in Tarantino and he there was a picture of Charlie Chaplin that was sort of a movie theme and and the guy said that guy's not funny he does not make me laugh he said do you know who makes me laugh Don Nots?

I think it's called Don Nots with the single greatest comedian he had ever seen but you know it's funny because I think that once upon a time most people would be in bearishton hollywood to admit that right but I think time has passed like one of Don Nots's biggest fans is the comedian Dana Gould

Dana Gould loves Don Nots you know Dana Gould people don't know he was basically the show runner for the Simpsons for many many years and then he went on just to do straight stand up comedy and now he's got a YouTube channel hanging with Dr. Z I think it is where he gets the full plan of the

apes makeup on and it's like Dr. Z from Planet of the Apes does the tonight show or it's worth checking out Dana Gould he only makes fun of a lot of people that he really admires and he has this great joke that he used to do in the 90s when Don Nots was still alive and he said that he realized the one person in the 60s and 70s before collar ID that could not make an obscene phone call at hollywood was Don Nots. As he said you know if Don Nots calls it

hey baby why do you wear it? You know the world automatically go Don Nots? Sure I'll tell you yeah and Dana Gould for horror fans he did work on he's the creator of Stan Against Evil that's right yeah it's a pretty good comedy horror series it's got three seasons he told a

funny story I was watching the night night stalker Colchak they had special features with him on it and he was big friends with Vampira from you know who was with Ed Woods true yeah he took a pair of her in her later years yeah and then they were looking for a burial plot for her and then

in the cemetery they're in he saw that with the one of the plots they were like okay how about this he said directly behind it was Derma Gabbins tombstone and he was like okay I need to have Colchak the night stalker relentlessly chasing a vampire throughout eternity so we're gonna put

her here wow that's awesome uh that's great you know Don Nots I love that one of the things I tell like occasionally a parent will come up to me uh at my church where I work and they all know that I'm a horror movie fan some people don't approve but they put up with me they will and they will ask me is like yeah my son really likes stuff you know and I like well how old is he independent on the age I'll be like uh Sean you know Scooby Doo where are you and see if you know

if he likes that or I'll go the ghost and mr. chicken yeah yeah and this was my daughter's first like foray into Don Nots I was like maybe this isn't the right one because like a ghost mr. chicken and the incredible mr. limpet are the two that I immediately think of and she gets really irritated sometimes with really goofy corn bowl humor she was into this at the end she's like I didn't think I was gonna like it but I really liked it nice and I think it's an ambiance

so here's the thing that kind of sells it is it has fun ambiance and it's got the old dark house ambiance it's got some creepy moments not excessively creepy but you do have like the the the moment it towards the beginning where the killer is getting ready to like strangle somebody you know that's done well and creepy the same way it would be done in a in a period piece horror film like that one so I mean it it's not it you have to sort of go into it and just you're there for those

two guys and they're shenanigans but did you guys notice Grace Abrisky from Twin Peaks? Yeah yeah yeah yeah she was the one who kept slapping the the butler who did he use the every temperate or fucks and loses loses mess but yeah a lot of the jokes don't hit but there's

just an overall funny charm and the wooka-lar thing as weird as it is I kind of love that that's a part of this movie that's it and also it's out there is is where Bernard Fox is is going after that kuku yes it's strange it's like you'd love to be in a writers I'd love to hear that commentary

actually day because I don't even I think what's fascinating is sometimes you'll see a bad joke you're like oh I see what they're trying to do I'm not sure what they were trying to do at certain points in this movie like knowing it it's like we took out all context and looked only the joke

remains right might have been improvised yes Tim Conway wrote this and he said once they got Don Notts then Don Notts had quite a bit of input into it as well he's not listed as one of the writers but you know that they were going back and forth with because he's like Don Notts is

it's funny because he tells these stories he goes first off that that that house was a real house and he said it was it was great you know the nights that they stayed there um it would be an eighth of a mile walk to get a glass of milk you know because it was this huge house and he tells

a story that they had to ensure it for four hundred million dollars well you know while they were shooting there and they were told that you can just use the electricity just you can just use the electricity so they plugged everything in and they were smoke coming out of the walls after

that first house it was like okay four hundred million dollars we got to find something else that we didn't know that isn't isn't that the built more in North Carolina yes where they shot it yeah okay yep and and he was telling the story that when they were staying like at the at the hotel I

guess for some of it um it was a 20 minute drive to get to the set and he would drive Don Notts in and he said Don is so great I love him he you know I've worked with him so much he's the reason I got into comedy in a way um but he did nothing but complain he said he was the biggest complainer

you'd ever want the whole 20 20 oh though your conditioning wasn't working I'm sweating what's going on look at that it's made a brick who makes a house out of bricks what's the point of making a house out of bricks and film comers like I actually recorded him one day and the next day I'm

like here just play this I don't have to hear it again that's funny because it's like that just carries right under the set like in the movie he's doing exactly that yeah and well he's also sick he came down with mono oh wow they were shooting at but he's you know he maybe one of his op

scene phone calls paid off yeah maybe it's funny you mentioned that that op scene phone call because obviously the joke is all I think we can recognize Don Notts but it's almost you can't it was hard to take him seriously as a ladies man on threes company right it's well not in the bad leisure suits

yeah the bad leisure suits but here when they have those opportunities it's like the that one like in you endocene where she's talking about what she was wearing and where and where she was and like in a different movie that would come off really and it's supposed to but it's hard imagine those

guys they can't quite muster the energy to really be turned on by you know what I mean that's really why you hear this but it's just like very mild until they got to the scene where they where they realized that like the eyes in the picture yeah yeah right and it's not as hard what

would you like what would you like someone watching you no one it's her room when she's getting untrust let me see you know yeah but it's weird it's like they're little kids almost it's like like kids try to like solve a mystery yep and then and then he finds like the eyes of the dog

as I can't see there's a nose in the way I do wonder some I brought you know how much was it improv it didn't feel like a lot of it was which surprised me because Tim Conway was kind of notorious for improving yeah especially on the set of the Carol Burnett show oh that that's

who can forget who can forget the the the the story about the Ella like going to the circus it's got to be one of the most played clips of the Carol Burnett show online especially yeah watching them crack up and then when he would crack I mean they would rehearse and rehearse

and rehearse and he's still cracking Harvey Kormann up to the point where Harvey Kormann is beat red I don't even know if I've seen Harvey Kormann make it through a skip with Tim Conway with that lamp that's awesome yeah and you know it's like that Wooka Lour thing I'm pretty sure he pulled

that out of his butt while they were just recording yeah the Wooka Lour look decent though at the end it does yeah it kind of has a Gmourian guard sort of thing you know what happens and it does I mean three years before return of the Jedi yeah this was a time when movies like this were costing

the director said this in the commentary this was a time when movies like this were costing about like seven million even small movies they made this for 2.7 million wow and it looks nice I mean it looks fine it's not not a great movie but I think hey if we're to have to go back and rewatch

a movie from my youth I still had a fun with it and it was a lot of fun to share with my kids both my kids enjoyed it for what it was and I'll go back and say you know there are so many people who and I like it too who love clue but there's a lot of similarities just in the plot structure

and what I mean I know they're both pulling from the same source but there's a similar energy you know that in this movie got to it first yeah yeah and you know speaking of the budget I did a little research and this movie was distributed by new world pictures I brought your

core man yeah yeah and you had a hand in any of that right yeah it was a little before my time but it was the most successful distributed movie by new world pictures at that time wow wow what I mean still I mean you had because Tim Conway was still fresh in people's minds from

Carol Burnett yeah I think Don Notsk was still on was was on three's company at this time I think that was just about yeah like just about on there I think the ropers might have still been there at that point but it was really clearly right yeah I think he went from this to three's company or

something nice sorry my once again my wife's demon possessed puppies are are going the count of Dracula yes my wife is not here and when she's not here when she's here they just crawl on her and they leave everyone else alone when they ignore me and they just decide that the

the neighbors are like Jerry from Fright Knight you think cold in an extra system knows you know I'm trying to find a dog actually says but I you know I haven't found one Russell Crowe might be available after that movie I'm sure he's got a lot of time on his head roll up on his

vest petit your house but now I it may be nostalgia but I really enjoyed watching it again even though it was hard to find yeah I'd like to listen to that commentary too and I thought the director did a good job even though he's not he didn't direct a lot I mean I think his next credit after this

was what you know and those of us for certain age remember the commercials the dwarf videos with Tim Conway yeah yeah yeah that's yeah stick with this yeah I would I would stick with the private eyes over doors and that that that app or the the channel that I mentioned on the Roku it's

artiflex a RTI FLI X and that's where private eyes is on if you have Roku you could look it up and it will pop up and get watched through there and so it wasn't not an amazing quality but you could still see it was you know relatively you know wasn't wasn't too blurry or anything like

that and it's a fun movie do we are we gonna give ratings for these yeah I think I think so so Nathan want you go first yeah I mean I'm gonna give it a 6.5 because it's probably right in the middle there's I it's charming enough I kind of want to give it a 7 probably true quality wise it's

more to 6 I'll give it a 6.5 all right Victor what about you yeah same as Nathan 6.5 for exactly the same reasons that's exactly what I felt when I was watching it I'm like yeah 6.5 and trade did you get a watch enough of it do you think to to give a rating or no I just got to the point where

they were right now well I'm I'm right there with it's like a 6.5 I do think that if you've got little kids you're wanting to ease into horror I think this is good because it does have the old dark house or there's an early 40s quote unquote horror movie called the hidden hand oh yeah yeah

that has kind of elements of that too and so I think it's good for that and if you can find like the DVD or blue rave I wouldn't pay 2499 for it although I will say these days to get like the a lot of the blue rays and stuff you know if it's got these in features and stuff your one of the

ones are more obscure it's harder to find it for a lot cheaper than that these days you know yeah and it's not 24.95 is not like an out of print price unfortunately yeah yeah well day what about you I think 6.5 is is fair you know what I'm looking at supplement I am DB the guy who played

the wakalar yeah Barney rosner it is not only his only credit but it is his picture the wakalar yes I would just passed away here 2022 and he did nothing else and the picture is of him as the wakalar wow if I had done that I would do the same I wonder if that was like the director's

drunk brother-in-law or something but on this hot spot and what's really interesting is that the rating that this movie has on IMDB is 6.5 oh wow which is actually pretty generous for if we're IMDB usually it's like yeah yes it is but but that's I mean yeah there are quite a few

jokes that fall flat but there's enough of them at work and like you said the the chemistry between the two of them Don Nonsense trying to play it straight at some time some points either he's just really irritated with Tim Conn what yeah that's what it is he's just really annoyed with the

development is around that element and then he's drinking the ink at one point yeah so the so what you want to the one another couple of us oh all right well we've got other movies day about nothing stick around for a little bit or I actually know I cannot I've got ahead I got to

get off to bed unfortunately but this was a blast thank you for for having me back on you are welcome always my friend yeah thank you it's great to talk to you and Dave yeah you know didn't you just talk to it no I appreciate it thank you so much and forgiving me another

chance to watch this movie it kind of redeemed itself for me so yeah I enjoyed it that's awesome well thanks Dave have a great thank you all right you guys do the same yep good all right have a go one take care and one more time big shout out to Dan Johnson for recommending it and I think

this falls in that category of the 6.5 but it's if you're a fan of this kind of movie it might be a a high priority rental yeah yeah why don't we move on to one that I am familiar with I've seen it a couple of times which is the keep from 1983 how many of you gentlemen got to see the keep

I thought it was yeah I did yep all right well the keep 1983 film Michael man and Michael man I was shocked to learn his 90 years old easy I did not realize that huh at least according to Wikipedia so unless somebody less you want to be my best all these guys are getting older

yeah that's true but and this was his second film after thief with James Khan the key for 1983 based on the novel by I believe it is Victor correct me if I'm wrong F Paul Wilson I believe yep you are correct and I'd read the book I sought out the movie watched it in the 90s sometime

on on VHS took a long time for this thing you know to drop to any other format and Nathan why don't you take it away on on our discussion for the keep if you don't mind sure and actually trade this was your movie right that you you had picked up from the group do you want to do the

kind of plot synopsis and was this trade yeah yeah I wish this was the one I picked so this movie was recommended by Karen Wagner over on Twitter and this was my first time watching this it was one that had been on my list forever and came up as one of the choices so it just

seemed like it was meant to be and the keep is the synopsis here that I have is very short into the point Nazis take over an ancient fortress that contains a mysterious entity that reeks have it in death upon them and I think with the keep I mean it's got a pretty solid cast here you've

got Scott Glenn you've got um uh I'm not even going to try to pronounce Eurigan's last name here Prochnell Gabriel Bern is in this as well Ian McClellan he's got really good cast and yeah like it says some Nazi soldiers show up there and are trying to take it over and things start happening

mean soldiers start dying and yeah it starts then we start really getting into it but yeah before I get in and kind of give my thoughts on it what's everybody's initial thoughts on the keep or what's the last time you saw it did you catch up with it recently Matt what about you yeah

I um I saw it like I said in the 90s I had a VHS for for many years I've watched it a couple times and I I basically skimmed through it again this week there is for those of you there is a version or a couple versions on YouTube that are that are streaming they're not the best quality

but they're you know they're okay but um I I think it's got a great setup and but I have problems with the third act all we were there yeah um well I'm a huge Michael Mann fan unfortunately for this podcast he doesn't this is one supernatural horror movie although I would say that

manhunter which I believe is the movie he did after this is horror it's just crime procedural horror and it's my favorite of his movies it's stunning but in the keep it's really interesting because you can see some of the shots that really hit home runs in manhunter he experiments with them in

the keep like the compositions the blocking you can see the talent there and I mean and and and you you guys said it already uh he already had done thief by the time he got to the keep and uh that's why the production weirdness that happened some of it is is man's fault and some of it

isn't but uh the fact that he turned in like a three plus hour movie to Paramount after he did thief is really weird because I mean I don't know what he expected but obviously Paramount chopped it to like 90 minutes or whatever the version I saw he goes 96 minutes yeah and it

suffers uh I mean uh Matt you you've read the book the book's good I mean the book's really good there are yeah it's not not I mean people say this all time it is very true uh the book is definitely worth reading I sought this out to watch it because I liked the book yeah I I mean I

I'm a F Paul Wilson fan there's a creature that starts manifesting in the keep while the Nazis are are occupying it and in the book it's not even really clear whether it's substantial or not you see like the eyes of it and and then an arm and it's really scary like it's it's really cool

the way the way he does that the reveal of the creature but uh anyway it's it's uh it's I also really liked it because it's kind of a lovecraftian narrative in in that the the Nazi stumble upon something and they have to know more and that's their undoing like you know finding out the details

is what kills them essentially uh like learning too much you know they they grab this uh Jewish scholar from a concentration camp and force him to help and that that guy's played by Sir Ian McKellen in the movie and um they get him to translate this old script in the keep which uh

is like old Slavic or something like that that only he can decipher and so the Ian McKellen character starts to develop a relationship with the creature that's haunting the halls of the keep and um it's a lot clearer in the book that uh Ian McKellen's character is you know he's he's

physically disabled and he has a weird affliction where he can't stand cold and the energy from the creature is revitalizing him and uh and making him shrug off the disease and then eventually McKellen's character starts going well maybe I can team up with this character to defeat the Nazis

you know uh and um and that it creates a really cool dynamic and then but I totally Matt I totally agree with you the first act is great like the first act is I mean it's visually stunning espresso my my cat familiar was mesmerized by this movie she could not take

rise off of it and neither could I um so yeah the first act when they hit the second act it starts to get a little weird and yeah the third act is a complete mess uh because uh I from what I've read they threw away the ending that man wanted uh in the movie which

is pretty similar to the book but um you know there's a big confrontation between the monster and uh Scott Glenn's character which is weirdly called Glenn in the book but it's it's like a Glocken or something like that but he's also a superhuman type who's basically his job is to watch

and wait for this creature to bust out of the keep and then go fight it so that's the type of movie we have going on it's really uh you know epic monster movie with and a period piece beautifully shot in uh what's supposed to be Romania and um yeah uh you're gonna proc now one of my favorite actors

you know um yeah he was the the captain and dust boat and uh the duke and David Lynch's dune and uh he's great in this as sort of a conscientious nazi who like is just trying to get his men not to screw with things in the keep basically yes and then his life becomes a living hell when this s s

officer shows up uh and that is Gabriel Bern playing that guy officer camp camp for and um he is just evil like uh campford just is just shooting villagers because he thinks they know something and they don't and uh and he is the he's really the the nemesis of prognos character who's just like you

guys are idiots like you know we are the people that are fighting the war you're just uh you know spreading nazi propaganda around but in any case uh it's it's all like people desperate because they're in the midst of world war two and trying to do the the best thing they can and uh

yeah it's um unfortunate that the uh there there was a tragedy on set where the special effects supervisor died about two weeks into post production which is a disaster for movie wally viewers yeah yeah yeah and uh i i think it it suffers a little bit from that the sound

editing is very odd like they're like some characters are very loud and other characters you can barely hear and that is very unlike michael man so i blame paramount for for anything like that yeah there's no way that michael man had his fingers on the editing buttons and that's what came

out uh because he's a bit of a perfectionist no if i mean if the trivia is to be believed like you know he turned into two hundred and ten minutes that's like three and a half hours right yeah yeah yeah and then so paramount cut it down to an hour and twenty they showed it to a test

audience it did not go well and so paramounts response was cut it more right that's what you you didn't like it now just wait i wish you had this uh well and you know that's interesting because i saw i saw this pieces of it when i was very young one of those deals where like

everyone's watching a movie and you're you're the kid and you're still sitting on the couch and knowing remember to tell you good about and the main that that first opening like half hour or so the movie is so atmospheric and you talk about victor like the kinds of shots

that man is doing here and then does a manhunter and and also how Wilson writes uh the mullisar character in the book there's a perfect evocation of that though in the in an early scene where some of the Nazis have finally broken through that last barrier wall right the wall that that is into

the layer where mullisar would have been kept or has been like walled up for all this time and you have that shot of them looking out into the darkness and then the darkness looking back at them and it sort of just pulls back and back and back and then suddenly someone's head is is essentially like

bitten off right and the body comes back out i thought that was so creepy because you're just imagining what kind of thing does that right and there's that that very love crafting sense of something ancient and old looking back at these people who look very small almost like ants and

insignificant and i think it i mean i think it's safe to say that one of the big problems i mean they're definitely when you have it when you have a person like man who really puts so much emphasis on character development i mean Scott what's going on with Scott Glenn in this movie is

almost like incomprehensible unless you've read the book because in my mind like you know i saw i'm like okay yeah i'll second that as someone who yeah you don't get a lot more but you do have a better sense of him as a character and who he is and when i saw it on tv later there were definitely

scenes the ending of the film i saw on television was different than the ending of the one that i just rewatched for this that's against the cut on the dvd and that probably speaks to the fact that there are you know at some point they were just throwing in other footage that they had when they put

this on television which would happen from time to time but well it's shocking that we don't have like a directors cut or some kind of longer extended cut of this film do you guys know anyone i think i've read some rum wins online but i don't think there's any surface i don't know

there was a there has been a huge outcry because it kind of late 90s early you know odds it had become kind of a cult classic and and there were a lot of people online kind of screaming for directors cut but apparently Michael man gave an interview and said that will never happen yeah he just kind

of disowned the movie more or less and i think he was just done with it and so he's never made any attempts to but you have to wonder because they've looked in vain uh for like the the cuts from friday 13th and and so forth a lot of them and i know they restored some to some of the films but

for some of them you know a lot of people just they went through the paramount vault that they're not there yeah yeah so yeah but i think it's probably safe to say that a major problem with this movie a a huge flaw i think there are definitely problems with it due to the cutting but it's the design

of the antagonist really like the when he finally shows up on screen he looks like a like enraged he man figure you know he's sort of like yeah so um the guy who designed him enki balal who like his he he's done a lot of comic book work he did the nico pull trilogy and really the fifth element is

a lot of that design of that movie is based off of like his comic book art but it just doesn't quite i can see that character working in more of like a fifth element type story right or a more grand over the top comic book story i mean but towards the end of this you have him he's got the

big glowing eyes i think at one point Scott glamp pulls out something that looks like the end of a vacuum cleaner when you want to be able to get to the you know the cracks near the wall and you put that like that uh that that triangular end on that he's holding that and it's supposed to be

like an ancient weapon for fighting evil and you're like that that's ridiculous yeah yeah i think it's a sword and that he has in the book yeah i remember it's toward vick yeah i'm surprised no ones mentioned so far the the soundtrack by tangerine dream i thought victor you would mention that

for sure but um i think that's excellent as well i will say yeah being coming to this is the first time watching it um i have to agree with pretty much everything you guys have said it has a great atmosphere and a feel early on and i do think it has a pretty solid cast like i said at the top of this

but it's there's just it always feels like there's something missing when you get to a certain point in the movie and all that build up is for not unfortunately and it's a real shame because i felt myself really wanting to like this one more and not saying that i didn't like it at all but um it just kind of gets in its own way and i think that's the biggest flaw with the film yeah it's i'm with victor's like i said the setup is so great and you know the cast is amazing it looks incredible as all

michael man films do you know michael man is like you know he's he's a more talented uh Joel Schumacher wow well in the sense that all whether gill man joe and i had this conversation and the fact that you know Joel Schumacher made some good films like the lost boys he made some bad films like some

of the batman movies that he did but they always looked fantastic i mean all of Joel Schumacher's films look good and all of michael man's movies look great and i mean the guy had a run that is absolutely incredible so you know he does feet which is a good movie he does this which doesn't

quite work but then he did man hunter the last of the mohikens heat the insider olly and collateral back to back to back to back to back incredible yeah that's that's an incredible run and so i agree with you victor the only excuse for this because the novel is good michael man is great

the cast is fantastic it looks amazing this this all comes down to you one studio interference but the other thing that i absolutely agree with Nathan on is the creature reveal is really disappointing yeah and there are scenes early on in like that one i mentioned and then there's

a scene where a woman she she's attacked and by some of the soldiers and is seemingly rescued by mellowsar and there's a scene of her being carried that's a really creepy image too and it goes back to what you were saying victor of the there's a sense of the disembodiment like of is

this thing fully corporeal and eventually he's like way too corporeal yeah this is going to sound weird but i almost wish this movie had been directed instead by john carpenter and i only say that because the the third act in both the book and the movie is kind of an apocalyptic act where like

the mohissar is a concept that's infecting the minds of the the villagers in the town and this is just the beginning like he tells is sir in michelle's character yeah when i bust out of here i'm gonna kill Hitler and i'm gonna you know carve my way across

across europe and it's gonna be awesome we're gonna get rid of your enemies and uh he's a huge concept that if if is allowed to run free is going to change the world uh in in its image i guess i should say and that's exactly the type of thing that carpenter is really good at doing

and he kind of does in mouth of madness when it's jirgen prock now who's doing inside church and they've got him like hold up and everything he's doing is reconstituting the world around him right right yeah especially if carpenter had dean kundi with him yeah well but again again like

as you pointed out mad this movie doesn't uh doesn't lack for great looks and and and sound and i think i think he make a good point victor because i think what carpenter would have been focused on is doing the apocalyptic idea on a budget that he understood you know he knew by this

point and carpenter's career he knew how to take a smaller budget and make this the the fantastical elements like pop without because something i've also heard is the ending that man was shooting for would have been extremely expensive and i don't think he and the kind of directories had quite the

vision to do it without it being either ridiculously expensive or ended up looking kind of chinsy right like that's not quite the thing that he normally does but um it's still man it's still a lot of atmosphere that idea is so good like that central idea that i kind of just go along with the movie

even though i know after having seen it once i know where it's going to end up yeah this is this is this is a story that i think is ripe for remake i agree i don't normally think that and then if i remember incorrectly it's been years there are follow-ups to this book right

yeah there's there's a six novel series i've only read the keep but um yeah there's uh i think there's five more books that are part of the ad miseries i thought was reprisal one of them i know that i read a follow-up to the keep and i don't remember which which what it was called but

i don't think i've read i have not read all the books yeah i've only read the keep but i highly recommend uh the keep like is a book yes and i and i think i did enjoy watching this i had fun i don't think it's fully successful as a horror movie but that cast is great and there's other

faces like morgan shepherd is a guy that you guys would recognize when you see him and later on he was a needful thing he was the he was the priest i think when uh when um uh what's his name uh pengborne tells him that hey you know what uh the devil destroyed your church and he was like

it wasn't the devil it was the damn baptists but uh yeah a lot of a lot of familiar faces in there and it was causing Gabriel Byron in like a villainous role this kind of earlier in his career yeah yeah yeah agreed yeah you know i i have a very short um but funny uh michael man story uh you know uh

i it's it's no secret that i work at new world pictures from like 88 to 91 and um um the very first day i showed up for work i got in before my boss did the phone rang i picked it up and it's um the production coordinator for crime story which is a tv show that michael man produced

in in the late 80s and he goes victor it's your first day uh look we have no music budget for this current episode of of of crime story and i'm like what do you mean you mean a low music budget and he's like no we have no money at all and i'm like why why is this happening because

well last night there's a scene in crime story where you know this pharmaceutical place this uh this drugstore had to um be blown up on camera you know so we set the explosives we we did it and um man was like no it doesn't look good enough so we we did it a second time with more explosives

and that didn't that didn't satisfy him either so the third time they did it and that's the take that's in that episode um but it was so good the explosion was so good that it actually damaged the building that they were using and so all the money from the music budget and others other

budgets went off paying the uh the people off were very irate it was a big deal like uh michael man sued new world i think out of it and it was uh that was my first experience with him so if you're ever watching crime story the second season and you see an episode with like almost

no music in it except for the main title and like some public domain saw like some people sing for he's a jelligat fellow that's happy birthday appears many times it's the one we were working on yeah we can hear the splurge about some profits thunder it does yes it totally does and so i

explains why they had to eat two tuna fish sandwiches and apples for the rest of the uh uh yes yes gosh the prostitute budget was out the window how about ratings on this one guys this was a tough one to rate yeah um i gave it a seven

i think it holds up as a movie yeah you know it's not one of the greatest movies of its genre or anything but it has enough of man's touch i think that sets it apart from other movies of its type i don't know if if you're if you're just into like period piece monster movies i think it's worth

it's worth finding and and watching it's uh it ended up it ended up being not bad but you will see it like if you're a connoisseur of those types of movies you'll see it and you'll be like hmm it's weird that that happened like it's we you know it's weird that it ends that way or

yeah stuff like that or like what happens to uh uh Glenn uh you know there were a lot of weird things in the movie that are unexplained but if you can deal with that you'll you'll enjoy it i think the stuff exists like the version i saw on tv victor we didn't even taped it off

television so i know it was real and i i just looked up and uh i found a little uh tidbit that that verified it there they you see what happens to Glenn somewhere out there their footage that shows that so it really isn't it's again it man's fault in some of these areas maybe but i don't

think i would that's what i would love to see for good or bad i'd love to see his longer cut because i think it would definitely redeem a lot of this and i think with a bit with some better story elements not that the stories are fascinating but better character and story beats i think you

wouldn't even care as much uh but the last act is so much centered around the confrontation and the monster that when those things are kind of uh a dud it hurts it yeah um six point five for me um it's i really i kind of agree with victor it's very washable movie i've seen it several times i love

the atmosphere of it i will go back to it it just kind of misses the mark just a little bit for being a really good movie yeah and um i'll come in and echo victor sentiment and say it's a seven for me yeah i just i don't know what else to say about it like the atmosphere and stuff but it's so

disjointed and it's so kind of all over the place and yeah the the antagonist isn't the best but you know it's kind of got its weird quirky charms as well in spots but yeah i think it's definitely worth a watch if you've never checked it out i'm a little bit lower i'm a six only because

i thought the premise in the first act was so strong it really sets you up for something special and then it kind of muddles along and then it just drops the ball and i that's what really disappointed me i i had this on vhs years ago i bought it for like a used copy for like a buck or

something like that and i can watch the first act over and over and over again and just kind of zone out on the rest of the movie yeah you just pretend like it's an hour like out or limits episode and you're good yeah exactly and like i said i think that this is something that

like amazon or netflix could do a limited series i get a good atmospheric director to do it yeah yeah absolutely if you could get somebody like who knows how to shoot a film like me at a cost of shows you know how to do that you know in candy man and just and do like a five six episode

limited series i think more faithful to the book i think that would be great and keep the cgi to a minimum please don't do this don't do what happened here but also don't do the levy cgi but i think the source material strong and i've always i understand why hollywood remakes what

they remake they remake successful movies because they don't have to spend as much money on marketing it's got a built-in audience base i understand that but in my in my little fantasy world um hollywood would remake you know inferior movies with great premises yeah and the only hard

thing would be getting a cast because this does have a strong cast and they're doing good work in it you know beginning cast this strong as this one well there are enough actors who are who are certainly going to be ready to work once the strike is over so

i don't know how long that thing's going to carry a while settle in yeah i think you're right i heard somebody the other day predict that he thinks it's going to be november december at the earliest yeah yeah they'll be re-release in the privatized and the keep into theaters yeah

yeah content well we have more at your mercy picks so do we know who suggested earnest scared stupid yeah it's david fear it's got to be one of the coolest names fear really recommend earnest scared stupid yeah david they would love this one okay all right well earnest

scared stupid who wants to run with this one i'll i'll introduce it yeah i i took this one because i had heard from a couple of sources that they liked earnest scared stupid and i had never seen an earnest film you know i was familiar with the character of course from the commercials

and i was like all right this is going to be my first foray into earnest that well the premise is gym varnie who's actually a very accomplished actor it's just that the earnest character is the one that took off he's done a lot of other things he's done shakespeare and you know he's a legitimate

actor was a legitimate actor until he did earnest and then that's all people knew him for but he stars as earnest p-warl who is part of a family line in this movie his ancestor finius whirl decides to bind a troll who is haunting the neighborhood under an oak tree in the in the open

and before the troll is completely bound he puts a curse on whirl and says your family's been cursed and they're gonna get stupider and stupider and it's one of the few things i remembered from watching this before i rewatched it with your generations will be dumber and dumber it's pretty

it's pretty clever and then we cut from that to earnest who is just making his way around in 1991 in the same town and the one of the cool things about this movie is it takes place on holo ween so you know if you just are into watching horror movies on holo ween it's a little bit of a stretch to call this a horror movie unless you have kids then i think it's a pretty good gateway movie because it's got some horrific elements some of them work some of them not so much but it's mainly a comedy

but it is it does take place in holo ween and it deals with monsters and monster hunting and stuff like that so yeah basically earnest has to in first of all he unwittingly sets the troll loose again um while he's explaining the story which is very like evil dead too i think i'm

yes and uh and and then he realizes oh well i've got to fix this problem that i've made which is cool so he teams up with um earth a kit who plays old lady hackmore yeah it's really her like i checked on imdb and i guess is it her why she doing this but apparently yeah she i had to audition

for this movie she really wanted it and because she did this movie she got the part of isma i don't know if i'm saying that right in the emperor's new groove she voiced the villain in the emperor's new groove a couple of years later same casting director that's the way those things happen

and there is some lore some forgotten lore about the troll that earnest of course misinterpreted but eventually realizes um what the truth is and he teams up with the kids of the neighborhood who are the the only ones that kind of respect earnest um so they all become kind of fighters

of this troll thing the only problem is the trolls mission is to turn these kids into wood which a little scary um if if you're a kid i would think one figurines that like he stores inside the tree right like taking their souls essentially yeah and the wooden figurines of the turned kids are

pretty creepy looking so it does have those elements plus the trolls are designed by the chiotto brothers who did killer clowns from outer space and a lot of them look really similar to the clowns of they're not like that which came a little bit before this movie so i think there was

some cannibalism there but anyway it works it totally works yeah i mean it's it was the last earnest movie to be released by disney who i am semi boycotting i mean obviously i rented this movie but i'm boycotting them because of their ridiculous censorship policies on their streaming services

yes but they they called it quits on earnest after this movie didn't bring in quite the returns they were hoping for and i think the director and jim varnie may have released the other earnest movies on their own like as indies but anyway uh that's my that's my summary um did uh did you guys see it

yeah um this was one that i had seen as a kid i think my brother loved these earnest movies and i specifically remember seeing this one and i'll push back a little bit victor and say yes this is definitely not a horror movie watching as an adult but i think it's set up and follows the

same path that a horror movie would i mean it's definitely although there's tons of comedy in it and absolutely agree it's a comedy first i think it follows the same beats that horror movies would and yeah the the children figurines are definitely creepy because they're kind of you know frozen

in place and i don't care for the multiple personalities sections as much it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense it just comes out of nowhere and uh with no context it's kind of i don't know so those were the parts where i was kind of like scratching my head um i don't i don't think i

i don't i don't i don't remember those until i saw them on screen and then it all kind of clicked for me but you know it's it's kind of fun i would say and it's definitely a good i feel like would be good to watch with your kids around Halloween time i mean yeah earnest isn't the sharpest

tool in the shed and uh his antics are pretty bad but but um i think there's enough here i think there's some cool and creepy moments and some atmospheric moments as well and uh earthic kids wonderful in this i think but yeah she's great yeah i remember um the first time i saw i did not see this in the theater um i seen one earnest movie in the theater it was a girlfriend wanted to go and i think that was our first and last date but was that earnest goes to camp?

yes earnest goes to camp the first one i think yeah yeah so it was probably in that 93 and i was uh baby sitting my older sisters kids my uh my nephews and so it was October so i went to the video store to try to find something that would be appropriate and so it was like the great pumpkin

and then i got i got this and i remember watching it thinking as you all said one this makes absolutely no sense i did think that the you know i'll curse you see your generations get dumber and dumber i thought that was kind of funny and i liked earthic it in it as well i did not

know she auditioned for this you know i don't think i would have admitted that if i was earthic it but it actually like my nephews and it's 93 so one of them was like five one of them was like almost four and especially the four-year-old it terrified them the troll terrified them

and turning the kids into that feeding off their energy and all that kind of stuff and and it's just if i you know i remember correctly i kind of skimped through it this last week one of them falls like into the pit yes yeah yeah and then once like on a skateboard or something like that and

and it had actually scared him when my sister was like what did you do i was like i showed him earnest scares stupid you know i didn't think it was anything of it and uh so i i don't think i would show this to like four or five year olds but maybe like eight year olds yeah and eight year olds is right where it's kind of like pushing it for like all the earnest antics but i like this movie too and i think it's probably the best of the earnest movies big shout out to anyone who thinks earnest

saves christmas is fun to it it's the mileage a lot of that is definitely the nostalgia disorder with me because i saw i never thought the earnest movies are great but i watched them at a time when it's like okay i get the stick it's kind of funny i think this is the movie that depends the least

on the stick and that's why the stick becomes so jarring at times like that last final battle like you're with like what is the earnest identity crisis that he needs to be doing this while he's fighting the trolls and he's still like suddenly be that old lady in the turtle neck like it's some of the other films like earnest and it's probably generous or called the films but and like the earnest saves christmas like he's in dis he's supposed to be in disguise and breaking into a place it still

doesn't make a ton of sense but it makes zero sense in the end of this film it's like they just want to do his his stick again but it is funny like you mentioned like this is his like i think this was the fourth earnest movie that touched on had released and so they have that joke that the the the

descendants keep getting dumber and dumber is kind of funny because it's not even the first earnest movie it's like the fourth one like oh this is why those monsters those trolls are scarier than the the troll in the in the empire pictures movie right like troll from like 85 like he's kind of

creepy but these guys are creepier and they're certainly creepier than the trolls and or the goblins of troll too but the the whole plot is definitely a horror plot it's just the same concept as abet and kastelo where the monsters are in one movie and then earnest is another movie the problem

is earnest is no abet and kastelo and so he's far more jarring but i think his interactions with earth a kit are pretty funny and like there's this bit where he's he's determined that he's found the cure to stop the troll or whatever and it's like the stupidest thing again it's so dark

that's a possible moment yeah but i kind of of the three movies we've talked about i think i like this i think this one might be the most like purposefully successful of what it's trying to do yeah and we didn't we didn't mention that he uh you know he's a what does he refer himself a

sanitation he's he's a trash guy essentially he goes around and picks up the garbage and he gets orders directly from the the sheriff and the mayor in this so you can't tell what kind of a small town we're dealing with yeah that was weird with the way he interacted with the sheriff that was

really strange yeah but i think if you want to have like a you know to put this a perspective to give earnest geared stupid some credit to see it a different light consider a few years ago Adam Sandler did that hubi Halloween movie on that i was gonna bring that up and that movie watching

that movie made me appreciate this earnest movie so much more because to me that was a dead on arrival attempt to do the same thing that he does here and foreign audience for a certain audience i think this works yeah yeah i agree i okay i i will come to the defense of hubi Halloween darn it i

go for it i actually enjoyed it i enjoy most of the stuff that Adam Sandler does even when it's completely stupid you know i when i look at like funny people or you know i look at his punch drunk love or whatever uncut gems obviously the guy can't act yeah right and he can do good films

i kind of admire the fact i think you know he and Judd Apertile just have this friendship with each other it's like every once in a while he just wants to hang out with his buddies next stupid and i kind of like that i can and it just looks like he's having so much fun and i remember seeing Adam Sandler in concert with my buddy Steve in 1996 in Columbus and you know he's up there and he's doing is you know at a medium-paced songs and all that kind of stuff and he's doing that he's got

this big like behind him was like the kind of hoop that like on Friday night high school football games the guys run through oh yeah oh yeah it's just up there and i'm like what is that doing about about halfway through Chris Farley shirtless pops through it and just starts running through the

audience screaming at the top of his lungs and i was just that's just they like to have that kind of stupid fun and i kind of admire that knowing that the guy does have the talent that he could have gone i'm not doing grown-ups too you know i have a serious actor now have you seen punch drunk

love and he's just asked through it i'm gonna go do a cubie Halloween and there's something about that that i admire you know going back to Jim Varney yeah Jim apparently yeah Jim Varney you know could act he done some you know other stuff from theater and so forth and you know he

just kind of leaned into this and i kind of admire that too yeah i think my cubie Halloween comment though is more that the plot of cubie Halloween like the the sand learn nonsense is fine but that's a movie that doesn't really lean into or embrace the horror element that it's trying to do you know

i give earnest scared stupid credit because the horror elements legit in cubie Halloween it's sort of like a red herring they don't do anything with it yeah that's true but and i don't think that anyone at disney or touched on or where i don't think that anybody fair realized how scary the

trolley at all before i think they would i think they would have put the brakes on that yeah chioto brothers and no joke but yeah yeah Jim Varney um he uh he grew up in Lexington, Kentucky and um he started acting professionally at age 17 he won all kinds of championships in high school

uh drama you know drama championship championships and like i said he he started uh he joined a Shakespeare company shortly after that and shortly after that he invented the earnest character for a dairy products company and that does come back there's a bit of an homage to that in this movie

there is it's messy um yeah he was so popular in the south that character that other dairy companies started using the character earnest for theirs and like i know that we all like grew up with with earnest and we've seen him in commercials and stuff like that even if you haven't seen the movies

like me but for our younger listeners like he's the dude that like comes right up in the camera so that it like distorts his face he's so close that he starts his face and he's like you know what i mean Vern that guy that's Ernest yeah i still like the Vern sequences in these movies because there's that idea that that's when you see the perspective that earnest seems like a psychopath you know because he always shows up and is completely intrusive and destructive did everything and uh but

he yeah Vern he did a movie i was there was a some movie title of something with doctor something in the phantom ray and i think he had a really quirky sensibility and then he kind of got this and for people who don't know who earnest is and Jim Varnie Jim Varnie is a slinky dog and toy story so

oh yeah yeah right story died young too yeah yeah i think he was going i'm 51 he was he died at 50 it wasn't long after toy story too right like yeah that's right yeah his buddy did toy story three yeah um yeah died of lung he was a chain smoker died of lung cancer he also was and they did it

wasn't great but they did the the Beverly Hillbilly's remake and he played Judd Clayton but he did good you can well like that was the only decent thing about that movie but yeah and you know there is a bit of a horror pedigree to this movie because there's an opening montage and there's scenes

from Nosferatu in it and the screaming skull which is one of my favorite um old older horror movies and the hideous sun demon and a bunch of others that i haven't seen yet but i missed that it was a good start where they i mean i saw it in this movie but i miss it when they

would do it in these movies in the 90s where they would legitimately not just name check but show clips and they you know because they could name checking older horror films like you know like back in the 90s they kind of think that Joe Dante would often do right like there's always a great

horror movie playing on television and everyone of Joe Dante's movies right so i think that that's one of those things when you're watching it and you see earnest and the opening credits have like oh much is to Nosferatu it's like wow i wish they would still do something like that yeah

yeah and that's true but i is there anything else we want to say about earnest scared stupid like i'm tapped out yeah it's a little listeners it's a little hard to kind of uh dig deep into the private eyes and earnest scared stupid yeah so we want to rate this sucker sure

all right victor you kicked it off what do you say all right you know i i was really prepared to give this a very low score going going in before i saw a single frame of it but i was actually pleasantly surprised by the movie and i think it deserves a seven yes i agree wow i'm not

gonna go as high i'm gonna i'm gonna say a six but like i said if you've got you know seven year old or something eight year old something like that and you're looking for something to put on when it starts to close to hollowing time i do think this is this is appropriate and they'll

probably think it's fun it's a little bit dated but it's worth a watch and plot wise it's really just hocus-pocus with earnest like yeah before there was hocus-pocus like hocus-pocus was a complete like retread of the entire story of this movie yeah and um all uh echo victor Nathan here and give

this one a seven um it was a fun trip down uh memory lane to to revisit and i'm glad i got to all righty well it doesn't sound like any of us would say you know to throw down 20 or 30 bucks for the blue ray or anything but no but if it's it's would you guys agree if it's like it's

Halloween time you got kids if it's streaming unlike amazon it's worth it yeah it's and it's a perfectly fun movie if you are having a like a family friendly Halloween party or something you could put this one on in the background and no one's gonna be you know except for maybe really

little kids are we too frightened by it and my i think my seven not that needed justify it but it's it's based on a movie for that audience yeah i agree that most hardcore horror fans are gonna sit down watch or it's scared stupid and be blown away but when you look at it through that lens i think

it works a lot better than it has any right to now and in that vein because this was one of the other movies i watched the movie i picked out of the these movies he's at your mercy movies and maybe the only one where i really felt like i should yell mercy was a chud too but the chud

from 1989 this was i believe this was recommended or suggested by Ashley i believe mm-hmm yep is that right barely actually suggested this one yeah chud to bud the chud and i had seen this movie ages ago when i had not seen it since and i thought hey you know what let me give this

a reassessment of sorts i will read the plot this one's coming up with Wikipedia and then i'll jump into it because there's some definitely things i want to talk about but the u.s government is ordered a branch of the military to discontinue tests concerning the chud project which is

built around the idea that enzymes taken from the sewer dwelling creatures from chud which was the movie before this can make hyper effective killing machines in the army but all over the last specimen of the experiment who's become known as bud the chud is hidden away in a center for

disease control office in a small american town from which a trio of bungling teenagers steal him and accidentally reawake in him in doing so and then bud escapes and begins the forgin army of chud's that's pretty much the plot in as much as there's a plot to this movie but there's a huge

problem here which is just throwing the word chud out doesn't really make you a sequel to the movie that came before and the movie chud which came out in 1984 by the time i got around to seeing the original chud it was at a birthday party in like 1990 and my buddy and i were hanging out or

all of us we've rented movies i think the other movie we read this night but it was brand new at that point time which was graveyard shifts so there it was a grimy double feature of it wasn't even done on purpose of graveyard shift and chud so the thing that struck me about the original

chud not how you got to feel about it is it's very atmospheric it has some really decent performances by of all people Daniel Stern and John heard and they have there these characters who the the movie really does descend down into sort of the new york underground and you see the way

that there are people living down there and then there are these monsters the monster effects in that original chud are pretty interesting as well it's not a perfect movie but it's a serious b-hor movie that has some things to say it's kind of smart it's got some great scary sequences in

it and i saw this movie i came home and my family and i'm trying to explain chud and i'm like i don't think i remember it i'm like well that's rented and it turned out that the the video store where we normally rented chud was out so we're like well let's get chud to bud the chud

watch this movie and my family just making fun of me like what what what what were you want about and i'm like this movie bears no resemblance whatsoever they use the word chud they mention the cannibalistic humanoid underground the wellers however if you watch the first chud film you realize

that technically that's not even what that is supposed to stand for you know by the time you get to the very end but this is not in any way a chud movie the monsters in this movie look exactly like zombies in fact they look pretty much like the zombies from return of the living dead and that's

what this movie feels like it feels for all the world like a cut rate third return of the living dead movie which is this point there were only been two it could have been pulled cold together from like the jokes that didn't work from return of the living dead part to and it's just a goofy silly

movie i i remember these to play it on us a lot and i was going into this thinking you know what let me look at this from the the viewpoint of this is a comedy and let's not look at it as a horror film but i personally and i i get if people have nostalgia for this and naturally if you like

this movie i kind of i kind of see why because it does have the de-enable return of the living dead but this time watching it divorced from it being connected to the first chud movie it still doesn't work for me they're going to be people to say well i i'm sure it's done because it's a horror

comedy i haven't liked horror comedies but i don't think the horror or the comedy works in this particular movie and it's down to the plot is just so contrived and thrown together at any given moment you're not sure why what's happening is happening i just gonna be where it used to

reference you probably remember this mat the idiot plot you know and they're not the only critics to do this but the idiot plot is basically the idea that narratively if one or two characters actually got together talk to each other they could solve all the problems that they were in the plot

this is more like an example of the sub moron plot where if any one of these characters did something a normal human unautomized person would do there would be no movie i mean these guys take this dead body the cadaver they take it home with them it's clearly alive they take it to

their house and then they're like oh he'll be fine here we'll leave him in the house with our parents and we'll just go off for a couple hours to talk to your girlfriend because you know the reanimated corpse is not that interesting anymore i did not re-watch this movie good i have not

seen this in a long time when i came back from la in 91 i went to work at a video store my freshman year in college and typically i would take often take a horror movie home with me at nikes we got free rentals and so one night i picked this up and all i remember is thinking

and correct me if i'm wrong but i was thinking robert vans in this piece of crap yeah and very thoroughly grumpy the entire time yeah and i actually kind of like robert vans character in this and it's funny this is this isn't the um first time this year that i've seen the

combination of robert vans and uh garrick gram who plays bud in this as they were both in the demon seed as well yeah but yeah i think the man was in the magnificent seven yeah and uh the world is going on and bullet as well right yes and bullet i just i'm going to do better movies after this too

i mean yeah like baskeball um i like to think here robert england is credited as man and trench coat walking with trick or treaters uh can we have no no why i yeah i'm i'm just gonna go on mute and and you and tray i have a good time when i listen to you because all i that literally all i

remember about this movie is watching this in my apartment at like 19 years of old a years age at like midnight and just saying what what what wait me what you know this is what is robert vans doing in this movie he's a good act yeah it's a paycheck and then june lock heart sitting here

and you know with the continue threes company normand fellas in here too but they're clearly just cash in a paycheck they did this happen a lot in the nineties right like i feel like some of these people just came on set and there were three movies filming they just went from set

to set to rubber band probably made five movies that day yeah um i i really don't have too much to say on bud the chud i think it's uh yeah like you mentioned in the whole crux of like what sets this in emotion is ridiculous and the

the the circumstances of how this happens and this is absolutely like you said comedy first not a ton of horror in it and uh you know i i'm trying to think of i i didn't i kind of liked the scene early on when um you had the uh woman working out and but shows up but uh honestly

this one didn't really do a lot for me and i don't have a ton to say on it other than you know i kind of like that scene and i did like the um the robber vong character to bit just for what it was to see him doing that kind of thing but yeah it's not it doesn't have it's it's not a sniff on the

original movie and it's not got the energy that the return of the living dead movies have and those movies too are horror films right they're horror film and the comedy extends from these characters doing kind of goofy things in the scenarios here it's just goofiness all the way across and so

there's nothing for it to balance off of there's no tension between horror and comedy it's it's less tension than there are in the earn it and then in the earners movie we just reviewed to be honest because even though those zombies do kill people here or there it's so kind of like it's shot

in such a silly way you're waiting for the like the laugh track to kick in right like judge too it's going to be a live studio audience or an undead studio audience whatever but here i will give here a gram a little bit of credit there is but as bud the chud because he's got like

he's the central part of the movie and bud the chud is kind of like i don't know if somebody saw Bob the zombie and Donna and you know day of the dead and was like hey let's make this like even dumber like let's let's go this where this guy is almost alive it could almost be a Disney

channel you know there's Disney channel movies where the kids find Frankenstein's monster or you know the gill man and they hang out with him and he goes to college like it's almost that kind of movie i talked a tray about how there's the the TV movie from 1985 the midnight hour

which is essentially like taking a patreon thriller it's like oh goals get to party on Halloween like that plot is the same between midnight hour and chud too but it's so the execution is so expensive is the midnight hour the one with sherry bell of hot yeah that's a great idea i really like

that movie yep and that's kind of what happens with chud you want to look at chud tune and say wait this can be done as a comedy you can have the fun monsters are just hanging out and chilling and it doesn't have to be as a noxiously banal i guess is this movie is that's the thing i can say

there was i didn't get any many laughs have it there i won laugh was a very weird laugh where there's a random scene of the parents they're trying to hide bud and the parents are watching television and the and the father they're watching like a nature documentary and the father randomly goes

oh i thought he was wearing a tuxedo that's just a penguin like what yeah random joke i'm like what yeah i was just looking through the cast and i saw that you know presidil pointers in yes i was like oh yeah she was in she was in carry and you know she was in

nightmare now in street three but she's also been in a lot of like acclaimed shoes and mommy deer issues and a lot of acclaimed movies in the seventies eighties i thought what is she doing in bud the you know the chud i looked it up she's the director's mom there you go yeah and for Victor you

know uh garrick gram was also in phantom of the paradise so he's been in a ton of horror fair you throughout the years obviously a lot of the palma stuff didn't he yeah uh yep um he was well he was in demon seed not to palma but um i i remember that one too and he was in used cars

yeah oh yeah he was a lot used cars yes and he he puts his puts his best foot forward in this one he's he's just that he's not giving much to do yeah as an aside since we don't have much to say about bud the chud go back to use cars for just a second as i wrap it let's review use cars yes

yes i still find that one of the most interesting kind of career trajectories has been Kurt Russell yeah because he goes from doing Disney movies doing the Elvis tv movie to doing used cars to being snakepliscan yeah that's a heck of a there is some you know some turns there

and that's not even you know later on then he get he kind of makes that term where he becomes almost a little bit more in the eyes of the mainstream i guess like prestigious right like he he does movies there he's a little more mainstream well he's in vanilla sky and but but he's also

yeah he's not a goal and all of that's kind of oh yeah miracle but he's also i think that came out in the same year i think it was both 93 he does captain ron and tombstone in the same yeah captain ron in that one the ipad keeps moving on yeah i remember i went to a convention like a

sci-fi horror convention in the 90s and there was a role playing game going on there which was it was Kurt Russell themed so like if you wanted to play a character like you had to pick one of Kurt Russell's movies and play that character that he played so there was like snakepliscan

and the dude from big trouble little china and captain ron was one of the characters i remember that that was the most hilarious captain ron up against the thing that's what i like to do nothing ron and he did then i guess he had stuntman mic and went not later on and yeah

just later but i do love uh uh uh uh Kurt Russell picture uh did anyone in that game pick copper from fox and the hound no no well played yeah or whoever his use cards character was that jack warden's in that movie too right use cards i think so yeah yeah yeah he is i think he

plays two parts in it doesn't he crop yeah oh yeah he does yeah yeah it's right the two we like uh uh well heck we were reviewing like three other movies and oh i know i know i know i agree or instead of chod too so that should tell you everything you need to look i love

ashley ashley's one of my favorite guests to talk to if you want to hear brine scott's soul just just be crushed listen to ashley just just tear into rob zombies Halloween movies with brine scott and brine loves them and or listen to one of my favorite podcast retro movie geek when they cover the

fearless vampire hunter yeah it was and and and poor peter nielson is just the same thing i mean he's just you can just almost hear his his his soul be flating on air when ashley is just tearing the fearless vampire hunters apart you know but at the same time god lever heart she she loves bud you

know chod too she loves those kind of movies that she picked up when she was a kid yeah and i get and it's like i know yeah this just happened to be one that i hated as a kid i still still don't like so it does have an astounding element does have an astounding

i was kind of excited because i'm not excited but i was like i you know what i liked i i've returned like Dave said earlier i returned to many movies i saw that i didn't care for when i was younger and found at least some level of appreciation for love and for whatever reason

this one was still just like whiffed past the neurons it was gone yeah the horror is not there and it's not funny that's the problem that's it it fails on for me it fails on both counts but i can see i do get like there's that you know there's the Halloween

they're tempting them like a Halloween atmosphere there's this sort of ending where they're trying to like lead all the chuds to the you know to the high school and there's there's feelings where you get those little bits of where other movies like the midnight hour like idle hands where

that kind of stuff worked where that silliness work just doesn't work for me here this is like a 4.5 for me yeah and for me i think i came in just a little bit higher than you Nathan i'd come in at like f5 it's it's an avoid for me for i'm sorry to say it's an avoid sorry Ashley yeah it's honestly

i came in with that but i can't really recommend this to to someone until unless they are a fan of this type of movie but i it's just not for me i think even if there's like 30 other movies with this sort of premise that like yeah i think you know the other thing we talked about so now all

on the the chat talk it's got to do with the cast like not born those guys are just side players that show it for a few minutes the primary kids here they aren't charming they're not engaging like had they been an engaging group of teenagers and characters you want to spend time with

that probably would have taken this problem away you know you you could have they if they had done more than of things with bud and the kids it could have been fun well to quote four scump i think that's all we have to say about that all the movies yeah so this has been an at your

mercy segment we do want to thank everybody who contributed hopefully we we will do this again if anyone wants to recommend nail gun massacre i'm not against it i'm just saying i think you that leads us down some slippery slope there Matt they won't be reviewing marty girl massacre

and bloody slippery slope oh i must admit i do own nail gun massacre on blue right but anyway so you can choose but and we will try to get them so for this segment this is uh past your mat and the horror historian and vicious victor hellcat rod regas and Nathan Bartoball saying

stick around hello and welcome to to be terror where the movies are never what you might expect i'm bill van vegel your host and i am the co-host of land of the creeps phantom galaxy but here i am to talk about to be fine movies and here is one that has eluded me so far

now this is a fairly well-known film that many people have seen and actually a lot of people quite like and so this goes to show that to be isn't just schlock per se or low budget or envy this does have a decent library of high end top quality films so the movie i chose is 1976's burnt offerings

which an imdb is categorized as horror mystery and thriller which i think is a very app description for it so the description is this a family moves into a large old mansion in the countryside which seems to have a mysterious and sinister power over its residents okay that could go into a lot

of different ways and so i'm figuring i'm going in with an open mind you know haunted house films are not usually my bag but a good well done one yeah i'm gonna quite enjoy so let me see if i did or i didn't this is directed by dan Curtis now dan Curtis has a long history when you go

under his imdb and i resume and he's done such iconic made for tv films as dark shadows the night strangler and trilogy of terror he has quite a large one and he did a lot honestly of made for tv films but he did them of a certain quality and have to remember at a certain point in the

70s and 80s they were the equivalent of what hbo and paramount and amc is now so they put some production to them this one is a theatrical release film one of the strengths of this film is the cast you have carren black burges maradith all of her read ilene heckert who you might know from

first wives club and heartbreak rich and she did it made a few appearances on the mary teller more show you have a young leemont gumbry who was in girls just want to have fun ben and mutant you have the arasable betty davis you have one of the best character actors in the

history of hollywood dub tailor who's in film such as thunderbolt and lightning bonnie and cloud and the wild bunch well did i say thunderbolt and lightning i meant thunderbolt and lightfoot that's what i meant and you also have antony james who i always know from the naked god two and a

half the smell of fear but he was in a whole ton of films high planes drifter unforgiven multiple multiple films so what is this film really about so you've got read black and monk gumbry come to a country home that is well isolated out in the country really in a small town if you might even

call in a town really in god's country out in the middle of nowhere and they're going to a well kept up house to rent for the summer it has a deep rich history it's one of these iconic looking homes that looks like it's been there for quite a while with the pillars and vines and trees

and a large yard and multiple levels to the house with you know a big staircase and long corridors and you're going all right this has some potential so dub tailor opens the film basically the the the family drives up and dub tailor is the handyman basically says come on in make yourself

welcome and basically it explains to them a little bit of the history of the house and then out comes accurate to a hacker to talk about you know how much this will cost but before she's going to get into the price she wants to know that the right type of family to move in because she's very selective as to who she lets in but you get the sense that something is up with the

house. Hackett then wheels out Burgess Meredith who plays this kind of you know scraggly guy in a wheelchair older he's got a few questions he's a little bit gnarly he's a little bit erasible but I like him in his very short appearance he doesn't necessarily look like Mickey from Rocky

so they find out that it's $900 to rent for the summer and all of a read has his reservations because he knows a house like that should cost much more there's got to be some kind of catch there's something to it he thinks that Hackett and Meredith is a little bit odd and they also find out

that there is a mother living up in the house that they have to feed from time to time and so then Oliver Reed has reservations over that and Betty Davis comes along and she's the aunt and she's going to be living with them as well so they got the four of them in the house Oliver Reed

ultimately decides to go because Karen Black wants the family to be there for a couple of months he's working on a doctorate of some sort I don't think that ever specific if they were I missed it so the family's fixing up the house Oliver Reed and the son are working on getting things up the

yard the pool that's there it's in disrepair and they get things going and they notice some oddities around the house they find a graveyard with relatives that are buried there in the back towards the woods Oliver Reed goes in the pool when they get it going and finds glasses broken

with shatter marks through them he's not quite sure why and it kind of just plods along there is definitely a slow build element to this it is built on atmosphere with a very strong musical score and you're not knowing what's going to be happening there's a mystery element to this

it's creepy it's fairly well acted the cast is great but if this is a if you're a film viewer who wants constant action or jump scares or slash your elements to this this is not your film for you this is a film based on elements of what I just described atmosphere the loss of sanity

how would you react in this situation so at a certain point Reed starts losing his sanity in my opinion he's rough housing with the son in the pool and things go a little farther than they should have he barks at Karen black he's getting short tempered he has these weird nightmares and

dreams involving an ants funeral there's the recurrence of a large black sedan and a limo driver that or I guess it would be a herst driver that shows up from time to time played by Anthony James there's a as I said a strong atmospheric score that really adds to the tension in the house

and there becomes tension between black and Reed Reed at a certain point is almost combatose because of the issues he had in the pool and his sanity is breaking and then when he comes out of it he wants to leave and Karen black wants to stay there's you know couple fighting they're trying

to keep it together for the sun but there's not really much in the way of haunting yet other than some few creeks and you know something's going on at a certain point the house starts to take a life of its own and it becomes its own character I mean I love films where nonhuman people nonhuman

people nonhuman things take on their own characteristics that almost become a character in the film and that's what this is and so Betty Davis dies at a certain point but let's just say under unusual circumstances and it just adds to what's happening in the house you know Miller is a little

bit over the top all of sir Oliver Reed what did I say Oliver Miller was thinking basketball those of you guys who know the NBA know that reverence Oliver Miller is going over the top in many of these roles but it kind of works for him when you get Oliver Miller Oliver Reed he's one of my

all-time favorite actors and he kind of is what he is and this is at a point in his life when he's you know he's drinking quite heavily and apparently him and Betty Davis did not get along but he Davis only ever interacted with him when she needed to in these scenes she found him kind

of bullish which I mean I understand that but he brings that presence to this role so the the family is barely hanging on as they try to leave Reed basically gets the car there says okay we're done we're out I'm not putting up with anymore I'm going to leave it at that

it seemed to me that the first hour and 50 minutes set up the last two minutes but what a great last two minutes I absolutely love the ending of this there's a weird twist I love the ending very bleak shall we say but it tied it all together one of the things I wish I saw was more of Burgess

Meredith and Dub Taylor the the whole beginning crew other than the main three people only had maybe two to three minutes of screen time I would love to see them incorporated maybe showing up from time to time just to see what's going on in the house or kind of wrapping it up together at the end

that wasn't there and so the other part of it is it is a slow build it's a slow burn now I think the payoff is worth it and I love a slow burn if at the end it all comes together which this one does but I can see some people getting lost in it because it's kind of build as a haunted house

supernatural type of film which it really isn't but it kind of is it's got to be one that you watch late at night in the dark and just set yourself up and get yourself ready get your bag of chips or get your candy of choice have a nice cold beverage of whatever it is that you want and just enjoy

this film because it is worth watching especially if you're a fan of the genre and you like a film that isn't reliant on gore there's no gore there's no nudity there's I don't think there's any swearing in this film it's a PG film that's done the way a PG film should be done I gave this a

seven out of ten I can easily on a second watch see this going up to a seven and a half possibly in eight I look forward to watching this again and this is one of those things that Tooby does write a deep catalog with movies that you want to rewatch anyways that's my two cents if you have

any movies that you want me to do give me a holler send a message to the website or a to mat or to myself or wherever it is that you want able to get a hold of us anyways have yourselves great and never forget Tooby is there for all of us

okay we do we do have a really big show for everyone tonight but we did want to include a couple of reviews that for horror films that released right towards the end of the summer and there's a couple that both myself and Trey got a chance to see and actually by the time this episode's out

you will have the opportunity to see them both on streaming they're available they are at the current point that we are recording this they're both available to rent trade I'll be doing two reviews here we're going to review the Meg to the trench and we're going to be reviewing the last

voyage of the Demeter and we're going to start out first with Meg to the first movie and I don't think you have seen and maybe you still haven't seen the first movie Trey the first movie to me was a very basic giant shark movie I had read the the Steve Alton book that it was based off of and in fact

in the late 90s they had they were very far into the production I think it's reasonable way into the production on the film and I was excited to see it back then and of course it never came to fruition so the Meg was a movie they bumped around forever and when it was finally made it was like

marginally better than a sci-fi original you know it was sort of halfway between a sci-fi original and those movies like Deep Blue Sea that in some ways spawned the sci-fi original craze what appealed to me about the trailers for the Meg too is it it looked like

with taking the concept of the trench which is this area beneath the thermoclying down deep in the ocean they've discovered this basically a small microcosm of a prehistoric ocean that houses Megalodons and other creatures too and we got little bits of that in the original film before

it became very mega centric with Jason Statham's Jonas Taylor character and the rest of the characters on that on that rig that had to go battle the Megalodon so here comes a sequel the trench were inclined to believe that that's mostly going to deal with what's down in that trench beyond

the Megalodons the trailer gave us flashes of other monsters of dinosaurs and the thing that got me excited that I talked about in that original episode was the opening of the trailer is the also the opening of the actual film I can confirm now that shows a T-rex being eaten by a Megalodon

and that was the concept that was in the original script it was a scene that we were all looking forward to and then the Meg of course never actually got made fun fact that 98 when that movie came out it was all about you know they were going to have dinosaurs getting exterminated by an

asteroid in Armageddon and then that just became Trouton has to tell you that the dinosaurs were killed by an asteroid and I think the ex files movie did something similar with you see you know aliens in the in the Stone Age so these sorts of things were being done then so now it's you know

in the trailer I'm finally seeing something that they talked about for you know 20 plus years and then those bits that looked like asylum movies on steroids with there's a giant octopus and there are dinosaurs like amphibious creatures chasing them through the underbrush all of that looked

impressive to me it impressively cheesy the special effects didn't look amazing but I thought wow they're cramming a lot into this movie and then Ben Wheatley I think Ben Wheatley's name on the film Ben Wheatley the director of kill list the director of a field in England if you're here

in these movie titles and you're thinking what is he doing directing the Meg too yeah I agree with you and that was the big fascination what what drew Ben Wheatley outside of money to direct the Meg too only money yeah to jump right into this movie review I can keep this probably kind of

quick yeah probably only money um the credit I give here is that there's not as far as I can tell a single scene of this film that makes me think yeah Ben Wheatley made this movie he has managed to hide his artistic eye or whatever his his style of filmmaker he could probably reasonably tell

me no I didn't actually direct that movie at all and I would be you know I would be inclined to believe it but his name's on the film yeah you certainly commits to the kind of movie this is I think it would have been much better had he gone at it with his with his own unique vision I don't

need it to look like a field in England or any movie like that but there's an opportunity here at this movie I think it's safe to say I was disappointed um we're quite a bit actually Ben and Meg too uh and in fact a lot of ways it's not even as coherent as the original Meg here's the

issue when Alton wrote his sequels to this to these stories uh and and he was writing them in an almost a pseudo Michael Crite and style probably more Michael Crite and then Peter Benchley in terms of the way he wrote these novels and he had done other ones like the the lock that involves

you know a kind of scientific explanation for the lockness monster what that might be and it's a little different than you would think they're fun books the trench deals with the fact that down underneath that thermocline when when you have to go down and basically enter in this other

world there are prehistoric reptiles down there along with the Megs and so in sequel stories you had some whole school of pleasores and another one of the sequels there was a leopard on the came out of there and so uh Alton himself kind of went hog wild with what was down in the trench

and so when the movie's called the trench I'm ready to reassemble the characters and get them right down into this prehistoric world maybe you've got a bigger budget we can see what that world looks like that element of the movie is a complete disappointment tray uh so I'm

surprised the movie opens up we've got Jason Statham in his back he was the star of the last film he went head to head with the man at the end of that one and we bring the couple characters back cliff Curtis who I always enjoy watching and it has a lot of fun sort of yeah he does have fun

uh rapport with with Statham they do have a kind of fun buddy thing going but uh you bring back a lot of the other car you bring back a couple of the other characters and you bring back um the DJ character he was in the first film you bring him back but there's a lot of characters here that

seem like we're supposed to believe they were in the original film they're talked about as part of this yeah where that becomes a problem is at some point this movie decides and it's first hour we need to see that Statham has Statham's character Jonas has become basically like an eco terrorist

and is sabotaging these uh he's sometimes he's sabotaging them sometimes he's just catching information necessary to put them in jail but he is specifically going on these ocean these rigs that are jumping a waste into the ocean and he's kind of you know doing is they call

like a green James Bond at some point that's probably not too far beyond the point but that develops into an entire plot that when they go down into that trench which has all this possibility it becomes a story about a rogue mining operation that wants to what take take waste and stuff

like that and throw it into the trench and or or to strip it of resources i'm not entirely certain but it's funny to me that we watch these movies where you've got this grand thing this this rift that essentially has underneath of it a whole prehistoric world and the best thing people can

think to do is have a story of evil miners and of course there is a you know there's a mole within Jonas's little group someone who sold them out why go that route when you have the you don't just have the trench you've got one character who's trying to train one of the makes then he's hinted at

at the beginning of the movie and isn't done much with there are mechs suits that they they can wear and use uh go across the bottom of the ocean and they're they're ready that they can use it for combat stuff like that those are only moderately used in the context of the film and an hour in

i'm watching Jason Statham have a fist fight with a guy and in under the ocean and aquatic factory under the under the sea that is happening there are there have been maybe one or two quick flashes of seeing the mags we don't see anything else down in that trench we're on over an hour in and the

movie is a slog it does eventually pick up the last 30 minutes of this movie have everything you see in the trailers and at that point it's like we decided to film three sci-fi movies at once and the movie loosens up a little bit a cliff Curtis's character that's been sort of sidelined

pops back into the movie a lot and you have a lot of fun with the DJ character he gets a couple of great scenes but the movie just it's such a waste of potential and at the end of the day I feel like what we're seeing here is a sort of pumped up sci-fi original it's a little bit better than

that but it isn't even as good as deep blue sea and it's actually not as good as the mag yeah so I've got a lot of you brought up a lot of points you know what I'm talking about no no you're good first and foremost is one I'm not a huge um shark movie fan and I had little

to no interest in seeing the original meag and I still haven't and this one didn't necessarily convince me to go back and watch it um but it's it it's absolutely true what you're saying or there are characters that I didn't know I went back and looked up to see if certain characters were

in the original film because as someone who didn't watch the original they make it seem like these characters were in that film it's very weird and or at least that they have had some kind of history together that made me believe they were in the first movie but the biggest problem with this

and I think Cliff Curtis and the DJ character provide a lot of if it wasn't for them I would have fallen asleep I think at points during this film and I do think they have some fun back and forth and DJ the DJ characters especially funny knowing nothing about him in the first film

uh and the page Kennedy is the actor who plays him page and uh he does he he's definitely this guy's that was just like the smartmouth tech guy in the first movie and they have a very funny maybe the best sequence going to movie involves him revealing certain things he can do now

and I and the reasoning for why he can do this was pretty funny yeah no I liked that a lot um um but yeah like you said that trench segment is awful um I think that might be one of the worst part of the movies the writing in this is terrible yeah yeah and I the reason I listen Nathan I don't

know if this strikes the court with you but this film seemed to me like it was made for a Chinese audience because you know they what sells in China are big action movies that you don't need to pay attention to the dialogue and the dialogue is bad and I honestly wish more of the film would have

been in Mandarin just so I didn't have to listen to the the terrible back and forth of these awful one-liners that would make the MCU look like you know some of the great scripts of our time there's some yeah it's it's incredibly forced I think you and I pinpointed a line of dialogue

towards the beginning when they're trying to make a joke about these guys like having action figures and do they go to Comic Con but it's it's more than a single line of dialogue it isn't smart and it's like they keep talking about it it's like who is this dialogue for because anyone

that does go to Comic Con yeah well think that this this line is garbage and then what is it what's the purpose of it is it's supposed to be something that's intended for more mainstream monies is laugh at the nerds just kind of moment yeah huh stupid nerds like what if they don't

even commit to it in any sort of way it's not there was not this was not a great scene in the Jurassic World film but I remember when they come to like the uh I'll give you the actor's name but the guy that he is his his his work space is just full of dinosaurs and crap and they're constantly

knocking it over and they're sort of making fun of him for like how it's kind of insensitive for him to have Jurassic Park member of B.I.L.A.C. is how people were killed you know yeah yeah it's the same kind of laugh at the nerd moment but and I'm not saying it was great there but this

is several leagues below that and there's no snow deep sea pun intended with the leagues thing but the I think you're right the to talk about the Chinese thing very quickly when the original man came out I want to say that was maybe 2018 uh and it was the same summer you had had just a few

years ago they had done the cross that cross uh cutting thing where you had a Chinese and a US co-production with transformers the fourth transformers maybe and that one was non-stop like you know a robot would fall directly through some kind of random Chinese drink billboard right

like land and no bunch of like you know Chinese shoes or something and so that movie kind of set a standard that by the time we get to 2018 you had skyscraper had the same kind of feel where it's almost a junky sort of action movie it's not high on drama very stereotypical almost

like we get the basic beats of the action and if you've seen die hard that's you've seen die hard you've seen jaws you can understand the mag and skyscraper we're not going to give you anything extra to help you understand yeah they absolutely both of those movies felt that way but this movie is

even worse I think because you're right there's a certain point where they're just throwing tropes out there because they're easy tropes to deal with but they don't make a lot of sense the idea of someone aligning themselves with this evil corporation that wants to like

pollute the ocean and pollute this prehistoric trench like good luck finding a character that would fit in with these other people for so many years it's willing to do that but it helps that character was someone we've never seen before but that means there's zero stakes when this person

becomes the term code because well of course they did they weren't around when the mag did all this damage last time you've got the Montez character who is this other you know bad guy and he's awful all he does is fail and then look off into the distance and then he shows up somewhere else there's

an interesting thing about it because there's a mama one like are we trying to have some character film because it seemed like he was just thinking about how much he kept failing like there's a mama when you're like because and one of the characters says are you crying like but that's not

followed up on this movie is just basic types thrown out there to be eaten and then you're surprised when they don't get eaten and continue to to participate in some second rate ham and and and action film that has nothing to do with the monsters until we show back up at the end and then

the movie is so crazily and this is where I wonder about the Ben Wheatley thing it's so haphazardly edited towards the end that it is very hard to figure out what's happening to whom and where did you feel like that for a movie that takes place in the day with relatively clear

you know visuals I was confused about what was happening when and to whom and whether so care to have been eaten yet or not yes and honestly that whole and you said I think earlier that that last 30 minutes and this is what I've heard from multiple people is the fun part of the movie and I agree there's some cool parts with you know the Meg eating some people that are pretty fun and there's an octopus here and I love when an octopus is in a film all the way back to my obsession

with that goes back to the beast from 1996 TV movie yeah but I don't even think that's played off as well as it could be and the the other element there's another create there's another set of creatures in this that I think is just very disappointing for the most part so there is some fun there but yeah it's going it's cutting back and forth and back and forth and it's like what is going on and you know to speak to that bit because I want to clarify for people to consider seeing the movie

the 30 minutes of this movie don't actually redeem the rest this isn't like you're going to get a great monster movie after seeing through an hour of this movie it's just the comparatively most of the fun yes happens in those last 30 minutes the last 30 minutes are really about on the

level of the last Jurassic Park movie the Dominion movie I found things to like in that movie but it was not a very good movie and the same is true to make too it's not a very good movie and it's a same kind of deal you've got almost an embarrassment of riches in terms of where you could go with

this idea of the trench just like in Jurassic Park dinosaurs are now living among humans there is a genetically cloned little girl and you decide to make a movie about locusts right and the dinosaurs are there nothing that that's the driving force what's the point what why are we doing this why

are we having lots of scenes of people sneaking around in secret layers uh when your movie is a monster movie and so at that level it kind of it just doesn't work as well there's enough here with the staff him character and and and the kind of camaraderie that the returning characters have

that makes the movie a kind of basic like very low level fun uh it gets you through the earlier pieces of it but just just barely and then that last half is just enough that I'm like you know what this is more fun than your sci-fi kind of movie and when you turn these movies on the sci-fi channel

this is the kind of movie you kind of hope to see I think where there's a little bit of more finesse to it but it's not good it's a disappointment I can't very I can't recommend it very much and if you've seen the last movie it's you know it's maybe on par with that that last movie was probably

a little bit better um unfortunately it's a disappointment it isn't an awful movie I had fun to a degree but I can't give this one higher really than like a five yeah I'm gonna come in the same as a five um and honestly the the Jurassic World uh was it any yeah was the last one um I

absolutely think that's a great point of reference because that is another movie that had in a fantastic setup what the dinosaurs have gotten now and they're all over the world amongst people that's fantastic yeah that's all you have to do with it and I think they have that same

opportunity here and they had so many good pieces and that trailer had I know you and I were going back and forth we were excited about that trailer and it just kind of all dies on the vine when you get into it and have to sit through this terrible dialogue and not a whole lot going on

I wouldn't say it's a smart movie I wouldn't say it's like got it's it gets into science at like a level that's just it's not digging deep into science like the cright and stuff but it's also trying to be this action movie at the same time as these people talking about the being scientist and I

I don't know just don't pay 20 bucks for this one that's all I have to say if you're curious um wait till this is streaming somewhere and then check it out but I can't recommend it any in any other city yeah it's a definitely low priority rental you know as as the kind of HMP

designator goes uh and again if you enjoy these sorts of shark movies and you enjoy schlocky movies you'll probably get something a little bit out but particularly if you you know you'd like to just throw this on and have some beer and pizza you know there are moments

that are fine there was a lot of potential here having weekly on board having a big budget for this movie having that idea of that trench and like you said like the science in the first movie was also dumb but at least there was some of it there and and giving a reasoning for why these

things happen but there is a chunk of this movie to remind me of the movie underwater which is a better movie than this one and uh yes absolutely there's the problem at the end of the day if you want me to just to find what I see is the issue the movie takes itself too seriously on one hand not

seriously enough for people that want a real thriller but it also doesn't lean into the camp aspect of this is not a this looks like it should be a camping movie given what happens but it never embraces that this just feels like schlock not good schlock it though if it leaned into the camp

it leaned into the scenes of staff with what looks like a sword on a surfboard on top of this wave but the lead up to that moment is just dull and the execution of that moment is dull and so you don't get this big smile at the idea but you're not kind of it doesn't it's no more like watching it

in the trailer is as fun as seeing it in the movie and that's kind of a problem it's the same move with that more fun yeah because you don't have to you don't have to sit through the rest it's like that t-rex moment is you know it's exactly the same in the film as it is in the trailer

and there's just no real reason to see the movie yeah yeah it's just dumb mindless action and there are some like there's some good spectacle stuff in this they're really the effects aren't us not to think they would be either there there are moments when they are almost sci-fi level

visual effects not as summer very good that the you reference a little creatures running around on the ground I mean that is sadly that comes off more like Godzilla 1998 when you had all this baby Godzilla you know it's about at that level it's bad yeah that part was a creature's in the

evolution the the the decubning movie which is a far superior far superior but it is superior so this one and I have more fun with that movie yeah yeah so a five for me for this one all right well let's switch gears and let's go into our next review that we have for the last

voyage of the Demeter this is directed by Andre Overdall who in the past has done you know scary stories tell them dark the autopsy of Jane Doe troll hunter and that had me a little bit excited now I didn't see this trailer um necessarily I think I caught like just a clip of the trailer

you know I thought it looks cool I thought that particular design of Dracula looked cool and I thought I could get into it but to set this up um this is basically taking a is this a chapter of the novel yeah it's essentially a chapter novel uh the thing to remember about Dracula is it's

so very like a pastory like you know it's like lots of it is conveyed through letters and communications yeah so this is essentially the you have the ship washed up and you get the captains log as a snapshot of what happened on the Demeter in the novel yep yeah so the the premise here is

let's take that let's take that section of um the novel and expand on it and I think that has potential but um when you're looking at the runtime of almost two hours just under two hours you're thinking what could they do with all of this and essentially to set up what happens is we

have a ship I think it's like a Russian ship um and it is setting in sale they're being paid a lot of money to go on this voyage from there and transport some cargo to London and of course if you know anything about what happens in the novel I don't know if we should get into that or not maybe

somebody doesn't know here's what I say about that yeah go ahead two things is this is a spoiler free review that we're gonna do right now um and I know like but I think if you want to try I think there's worthwhile to take another five minutes and just talk about some of our our issues with the

film that would involve the spoilers uh I do think it's I will say this much about the last voyage at the Demeter if you've seen other versions of the Dracula story it is usually never seen at all or it's a small setup and let's point out that this is getting Dracula to London and where does the majority of Dracula take place well good chunk of it takes place there in London um the way I see this very quickly the story in the novel is it is a it's a it is set as all he he does give us

a snapshot of this as its own event but it's in the in the context of those story we've already seen Jonathan Harker meeting Dracula and we've seen that kind of what Dracula's influence in in Transylvania in Romania right and we see that world that he inhabits and the kind of thread he is

specifically to Harker and to others and to those small towns but we when he gets to by time he gets to London we need to see him as a greater threat and I think that Stoker uses that Demeter passage as a way to transition as the bridge from this creepy count character that seems ominous

and is dangerous to this scourge that could wipe out London and so the Demeter's a transition yeah but how and getting into that how eerie and unsettling is the idea of this ship washing up without the crew I mean in that kind of um you can kind of call back I mean if you really wanted to

see we had the I don't know why this popped in my nine or eight I'm Nathan but uh we're talking about Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park the lost world that has a similar kind of um the sequence where they're taking something from one place to another on a ship and you see the aftermath and I think

that idea is really cool to me I've always liked that when it's been done in films but now you have to stretch this out like you said just over a sea void and it gets tricky like you lost world for example the questions do wait to crew if we lock the T-Rex after yeah and apparently that was

storyboarded up and guess what don't cut the scene and explain to wait to crew uh but you do get into that issue and Ram Stoker's Dracula as far as I know is probably the film the only other film I know that visualizes in a very in a couple minutes but visualizes what happens on that ship because usually what it's used for the John Badam Dracula that has Franklin Jullin it has a great image of that ship washed up and then and we get that here in the in the

demeanor as well in the opening. Yeah so honestly this is a very different film I think that they were selling because I think what they're selling this as and you can correct me if you think of wrong Nathan and I think why you you and Victor were maybe a little down on this on our preview

is they're almost selling this as like this high stakes action horror movie and it does have a lot of that in it but for the majority of the first part of this film it's very slow moving it's kind of very it's built around an atmosphere and it's built around small glimpses of stuff and it's

built around characters thinking they saw something and starting to you know get conspiracies in their head and all this other stuff and really how the characters are interacting with each other I'm not gonna sit here and say you know any of these characters are written as like home run

they're not home runs they're not written that well but I think there's enough going on there that builds this cool atmosphere and then by the time you get the creature or the monster the main threat in this movie I think your mileage will vary there but I think there's a lot of good

underneath it and it kind of plays more of like this mystery that we're uncovering even though unfortunately we probably know the answer to the mystery but I don't know what your thoughts are in that but I think they're almost selling this wrong for what you get what's weird yeah they

they definitely emphasize the Dracula element and and that is sort of an issue that's hard to get beyond when you have a movie where the ending is particularly with a small chunk of this right think of lots of classic novels that have these little sides and it's like a main if I take it and

make that aside and do a longer movie that's great but do I learn anything new do I get to experience anything different when I already know that the ending is in place and I think that's kind of on the tricky and weird things with this film the initial trailers gave you just enough to get okay

there's some good atmosphere going on here but as trailers continue we start to see more more of the monster or lack of a better term and in fact we see it's implied really that there's more of that creature in the film than there really is I think in terms of like what we actually see on screen

to your point I think that the Demeter and Orville being hired to direct this my experiences I loved Troll Hunter when Troll Hunter came out thought it was a great original movie and for all the giant trolls and the and this found footage film where where this Scandinavian folklore is real

and these trolls are just as weird as they would be in folklore and they're visualized on screen and we watch these hapless like filmmakers running around with them that stuff's great but the heart of Troll Hunter is the titular Troll Hunter this old guy well they're not even that old you

know it's this guy who's living in anonymity in the wilderness the government hires him to hunt these things down and he's kind of lived this sad life destroying these magical animals and you see the loneliness inside of him you see he's such a great character and the movie slows down to do

that and I think that Orgolz he's been hired to do some of these American films autopsy of Jane Doe scary stories in Troll Hunter dark the last way to Demeter I like these films but I don't feel that they fully utilize his skills as a filmmaker I think he's hired because he can bring these

characters to life can give you interesting characters that make you invested in this small small enclosed space stories you know autopsy of Jane Doe two guys in a morgue and there's a third body there and then we get a little bit more even scary stories of Troll Hunter dark you have

that small group of kids united around this book that has the small story so you hire Orgolz who can create these little vignettes and create a lot of atmosphere and create good characters but then a lot of times what he's been given to do in the American films is just sort of kick

the can through a very basic story that doesn't give him a lot of room and that was what I was concerned about with this one but you're right on there's a lot of atmosphere in this movie I think this really feels for most of its runtime like a hammer horror movie yeah I think that's

a good point of emphasis I mean and for you don't I echo what you said about you know I think Troll Hunter is absolutely his masterpiece so far and I think the other ones with Jane Doe and scary stories and that's a little spoiler or this one and then also a film he did called mortal

are there really good aspects of the filmmaking and like you said he just doesn't fully deliver on it and with the atmosphere here yeah he builds a hammer-esque atmosphere I mean you get one shot in particular that I noted with the the lady figurehead on the ship you get like the waves

crashing and there's a storm and you're just getting a shot of that there's no characters in this you're just getting a shot of the boat for atmosphere and I love that kind of stuff and the way that they slowly build like what the old garen character sees which I I really like his

kind of little arc in this film and as well as the captains so yeah I think early on especially it feels like a hammer film and then at some point it does shift a little bit I think there's a scene with a door in particular that I think is excellent and probably the highlight of the film where it

seems like it's maybe going for some other a little I don't know it got it got a little brutal there and it got a little bit different but yeah I get what you're going for with the hammer ambiance the hammer feel and I think I agree with that yeah there's early shots where you see

the you've got the the misty shoreline at night and the the boat washed up in the storm and the officials coming out to see it like that opening scene even the scene of the the luggage being loaded the the the crate's ending being loaded onto the demeter and those opening scenes there's just a vibe

like that and you know we don't go into a ton of this but you've got this cast of characters and these actors that play the characters you've got a pretty strong cast here and you've got Captain Elliott was played by Liam Cunningham a lot of people will you know you can do the shorthand

work here he's he's Devos Ceworthy in in Game of Thrones and so it's not too hard to imagine him as a captain of a ship here and he brings I think he brings a decent amount of gravitas to his character in a certain amount of sadness to his character I love David Das mulchi and then he's

better used here than he was used in the boogie man I didn't recognize yeah yeah he's still that a little but he doesn't look so gaunt and haunted but he should by the end of the film but he plays Wochak and his role characters some of these characters were directly named check in the novel but

you need to get some people that weren't in there but Elliott also on board has a woody Norman plays his son not his son his grandson who's mother's passed away and he lives on the ship with with Elliott kid actors are usually you know the particular film like this it's like okay the

kid actors there a I know you're safe b you're probably gonna irritate me this is a really good example of of the kid actor done well and the way he's placed into the story and there's some stakes involved with him again no pun intended but you know this crew it's a small crew and then

you bring on Clemens who's played by Corey Hawkins who really you know he's the the the doctor who's brought on board the ship and he seems like he was never really meant to get on the boat but he ends up getting on the boat he's the character clearly whose eyes we see this through

as we're watching the film we realize okay he is our central point of focus uh Corey Hawkins is really good in the film playing Clemens and he has a couple of speeches up front where he says why just need the world to make sense as a person of color the only

person of color on this boat is a person of color who's trying to shear force of will trying to become a doctor in the in this world where you know racism is a very it's a very obvious and real thing his character has a lot of baggage that he brings with with on the boat and so that's

interesting there's another there's a stowage play by Aisling Prince Jose we're not sure if she's a stowage or she's been sort of like she was she part of the part of the the luggage that was loaded on the ship and she has a mysterious illness that needs blood transfusions Clemens knows how to

do this and that kind of sets the story emotion because we realize there's something down in the hole to the ship it's not what it appears to be and then crew it's already small starts to get sort of you know whittled away in some ways that we're actually surprising to me and so at that point

we it is hard to talk about the film without acknowledging that that Dracula and the vampire element becomes a major part of it um but I agree completely with your saying about the atmosphere in the early going uh the characters are well to find I think it's an interesting crew characters

in the sense that we like most of them and we're we're not really given a bunch of characters where we're expecting to see a lot of infighting between them they all have their own perspectives and and some of them don't see eye to eye immediately but they're all relatively likable people and I

kind of enjoyed that aspect of it that this was a group of people that uh you know when the bad things happen we're gonna see them come together not necessarily be pulled apart so I appreciated that that felt that felt relatively real realistic and they don't spend a lot of time trying to build up

these bad apples and we're gonna take everybody down that kind of thing so I enjoyed that and here's a thing that I think really makes makes the movie as good as it is which is in addition to the horror atmosphere there's a great amount of detail a life felt anyway put into the rhythms of being on a

a sort of Victorian sailing ship like this right uh this was done in master and commander to even better effect I think where you really get a feel of the live what it would be like to live and live on that boat and then to be on that boat in the midst of now there's someone trying to kill you you know and I think that's the maybe the movie's greatest strength is its adherence to those details because suddenly you feel like yeah I'm on this ship you get a feeling of sort of claustrophobia

you get this eerie sense of being watched and the things are going down below the ship uh I like all of that stuff a lot yeah and I like that stuff too I think and I want to shout out one more um positive thing before I get into some some of my negatives here but a Javier Botet plays Dracula

on this one and he's a very accomplished kind of um Doug Jones S. K. R. He's playing a lot of creatures things like that and I think there's a scene here where he uh the character the creature design in that particular scene that he's playing looked for your reminiscent of something he's done

uh a long time ago I don't want to spoil anything with that but um that reminded me of a certain movie he was in a certain Spanish movie um but honestly the designs of I I don't know if his spoiler not Nathan um to talk about the Dracula doesn't look the same all the time and some of those hit

for me and some of them don't um I think my biggest problem with this movie are some of the effects uh sometimes I think they're very well done um and other times they're just not for me so I think that's one of the main things that takes me out of this one are just how those effects are

hit or miss for me at least yeah I know what you mean and there I think that one of the issues with the film is so much of it has that very like handmade realistic tactile feel to it the things that you're seeing are really there uh as this creature is introduced in most of the shots it

feels like it's really there and it does become more excessively sort of CGI visualized this movie goes along and at some point uh I think the problem when you're visualizing these sorts of characters that way is that they start to remind you of other movies you know um I don't want to be

thinking about underworld while I'm watching this film you know because of the nature of it because uh it's dealing with these these kind of shadowy terror that we don't always see and so to have this final confrontation which is sort of with the film will eventually builds to uh you're building

you're building all of these characters and you're building all of this atmosphere and the vampire mythos and all of this good point where you're eventually gonna have an action scene and it's gonna have to be pretty impressive if that's how you're gonna close your your film out and so I

think that becomes a potential problem for the movie as well yeah yeah and um honestly I think a lot of it is Nathan for me and I didn't I'm just say I don't I don't hate every design this I think there's very um good scenes and stuff with that creature in it but another thing for

me is a lot of the times when you reveal the mystery it's not going to live up to what it isn't your head and I think you talked um about other interesting instances of the Dracula where we get enough information of this section of the film to kind of be creeped out and that's always been one

of the mysteries of me you're thinking in your mind what happened on this ship and what happened to these people what did they go through and I don't necessarily think it lives up to anything like that that I've imagined in the past and that's not necessarily the film's fault

um it has kind of an uphill battle with that but um it wasn't necessarily what I was wanting out of out of that stuff but I don't know if that makes sense or not no it absolutely does and I think it's getting a point where we don't want to probably talk too much more about the plot

unless we offer spoilers but I will say this that my ultimate impression of the film deals with kind of what you just said is once we've introduced that we kind of know where this is going it's really a bridge piece in the in the novel and in most of the other films and Dracula is sort of like

I don't see as a complex character but he has a lot of facets to him that make him interesting as a villain right and so to be fair in the demeanor you're really only concerned with like one varies kind of specific element of him as a villain and so it almost doesn't matter that he's Dracula he's

not bringing any sort of richness or iconography of character and so the only thing really brings to the movie by being named check is Dracula is what we know he's probably going to get off of that boat I mean let's face it that's what we are thinking and I think so in some ways unless you're

really trying to sell this movie that people are going to name check to meter and say oh yeah it's Dracula like there's almost no real reason for him to be Dracula that if you took this other story about people carrying this monster on a boat it suddenly opens up a lot more possibilities if it's

going to be the demeanor yeah or don't go so far that what I want is not a lean mean survival horror because I kind of get a feeling where that might end up I want to see something that's going to make me care about these characters why they're polite that we probably know how it's going to end

why does that matter to stay with characters that are probably due and this movie gets so close to owning that that you can see the groundwork laid for a great movie and instead what you get is a pretty in my opinion pretty good matinee horror movie it's fun to watch I had a lot of fun

there's some great scenes there's a sequence involving a potential burial at sea thing is the best scene in the movie it's creepy when you think about what's happening on screen what happens after that scene passes like it sets up what happens later in the film a lot of the set pieces are good

in and of themselves but there is just something a little bit missing and I think it deals with the fact that as this gets going we're gonna have to find reasons why the characters don't immediately just hunt this monster down and destroy him particularly once they start to learn there is a

character who knows something about him and when you recognize the elements that make Dracula who he is and when I look at this on paper I'm thinking well you know what if they know before he's killed all of them they may have the upper hand and I guess the movie never quite accounts for why certain

people don't do certain things and I think your mind just keeps thinking about that and the movie is not necessarily going to offer you surprises or you don't think they will there are a few surprises here just in terms of how some things happen and characters that we you know we think at one point

that this is only a Dracula kind of get him into the picture introduce Dracula yet again and there is some work that's done on another character where I feel that really we're watching the genesis of a totally different character under totally different iconic character I don't know if that's

entirely what they meant to do but I believe even in this current incarnation that that's what they are doing that I loved I loved a lot of that stuff so a lot of things I love about the movie but it holds it back a little bit it's just this tying it so closely to the demeanor and then not

going further not really making us care about what's happening to those characters enough in the moment I I thought it was beautifully put together I was involved in the characters but there's a moment where I just am a little bit too much outside of this and I'm not fully engaged with it

yeah yeah completely agree now that being said my whole family I think enjoyed it even more and they kind of were into the story and they were involved with it and I think maybe that had to do that they didn't it kept stuff for my daughter I think everyone completely realized oh yeah this

is a foregone conclusion yeah yeah yeah we had that disadvantage there but all right do you want to go into ratings and then we can go into a brief spoiler section yeah oh go ahead no no unless you had something else you wanted to get to no I don't think so I do think it's enough

it's a fun and effective horror movie it is a good movie I do believe it's a good movie and we've been you know I think to the extent that you hear us being a little bit reluctant with it it's not the same way that I'm I'm dismissive of like the make-to this is a case

where this movie really I got more vested in it and I expected I enjoyed it more than I expected I liked what it did in our own scenes that will haunt me I think that are in the film it isn't excessively scary but it is some creepy moments I just think that it's so good that it demonstrates how

if they had given or of all maybe more latitude to work with if he had been able to just do some audacious things this could be one of the best horror movies of the year as it stands it's a pretty good one I almost feel like I need to grade it on a curve because it is dealing for better or worse

it is dealing with that sort of element of I've got to work within this framework so for me I'm going to give this one this is a seven out of 10 for me it probably could go higher but it just it was it it's some of this held it back just a little bit for me yeah and I'm right there with you

I was teetering between this in 7.5 but I think a seven is ultimately where I want to land with it and I liked a lot of it there was a lot of potential there quite some parts I feel like no and I'm very I'm very curious of where they go with this deadline where universal goes because you know we

thought they were rebooting and we can talk about this in a little bit but we thought they were rebooting everything with the invisible man and it's like well here you go so take this I'm not sure what they're doing with it next but yeah I think it's a solid movie I think it's definitely worth your time to see it again I would not recommend paying $20 for it or $25 for it but maybe once it gets to normal rental price it would be where you would check it out.

This is a closer call I can and people who enjoy this kind of horror movie who enjoy vampire movies who enjoy hammer horror films I think you know this might be when you really end up enjoying and and and and maybe do like is is one of the movies of the year for me it didn't quite get there but

the potential was there I also you know between the seven and seven point five I do think ultimately the overall feeling is it's a seven I'm gonna go ahead issue a spoiler warning here and then in the notes I will I'll let you know where where you can pick this back up but

let's go ahead and do spoilers and it's probably not surprised you know what may be surprising is that anyone survives this at all given that nobody yeah book does and the captain is there on the on the wheel when they find him and things like that of course the character that the choreo

hawk has plays the climat is not in the original book and he is the only real survivor of the demeter at by the time the film ends I do think that there were some surprises along the way I didn't really expect Toby to have such an eight oh that was pretty yeah really dark ending because

you know he's attacked he's killed in a in a but he's attacked and he's drained in a really dramatic way we see his his grandfather struggling as he's passing and then when he does pass we've got this moment where what the stowaway character she taught she she takes a moment to talk about like

you know oh well hopefully he'll be in a better place there's like a prayer that you know for all the darkness that's happened to him things will be better and you think okay well that's a nice way to put a little bit of like a hopeful spin on this kid who's body there about the dump and then

what happens just makes it all the worse and I think what you really think about it like that kid is probably burned up and vampiristic and still living at the bottom of the ocean I guess at least until Dracula's killed right I think he was and I think we both came to that same conclusion because

it was like he's definitely you know they put him he went into the water before he could fully and we watch him sing and down and yeah that's an incredibly creepy scene um but uh that the so I do think that the climate character and I thought about this as they they introduce him

and we see him with his medicine bag right and when he's a practicing doctor and he gets on the ship and he talks about his goal is through the world to make sense and really what he's talking about there as as he explains later is there's that element of racism and all these other evils in

the world and he wants to understand them so he can better fight them you know and he this comes back up when he wants to understand the nature of Dracula and he wants to understand the nature of Dracula from a scientific lens and I think the movie underscores that because well crosses don't

work on the vampire uh all of the religious iconography is nothing it does nothing at all and it usually just gets people killed because they think they can rely on it and they can't and the movie kind of a represents even in that scene we talked about where Toby where they give this pie in

in this prayer that he'll be in a better place than we see these in a much much worse place by the end of that sequence uh god is not available in this version of Dracula and that's my thing is like they choose to go um in a slight alternate route with this but they don't go all the way when they

could have and that's what we talked about earlier when they could have made something special out of something different but you you know you crosses don't work you've got I don't think I mean listen we can't the characters haven't been explicitly um detailed in earlier versions of this

but I wouldn't think it's a stretch to say that the Clemens and Anna characters probably wouldn't be in people's minds of being on the ship at this time and we have them and they both get off the ship um but I think it's it's that looking at the science like you said they're looking at it from a

scientific lens which I don't think is something necessarily that you know people think of with Dracula except for one character there's one character who's a doctor there's one character who is hunting Dracula supposedly from his perspective because he understands how he works as an animal and that of course is Abraham that Helsing and so this movie 100% right from the beginning and including that speech about the world making sense that I firmly believe particularly

given how the movie ends that the Clemens character is being set up to be Van Helsing even though technically speaking when Van Helsing comes into the picture in the Dracula story we have the idea that he has

maybe fought him in the past or has encountered him or knows his tight you know that but the question has always been well how does Van Helsing know about Dracula and honestly speaking to have him be a guy that met him on the demeanor and then follow us into London uh and learns about his nature

there and is already a doctor I don't think that's too bad that's not a bad uh use of that but there's a part of me that would almost want us to go a Tarantino sort of direction and be an alternate take on history I think we would all have been pretty surprised if he had actually killed Dracula

on that ship I mean uh but imagine something like that because then if you really are trying to build this world and I don't think the movie like the last voice at the demeanor needs to be that kind of movie it can be a movie where you just a side story uh that's all you know it's a nice

atmospheric horror story it doesn't need to be the start of a franchise and that's the thing people forget about the universal horror movies they weren't being they weren't being fashioned as these internal linking films they were just making a lot of the same movies with the

same actors because those movies and those characters are popular and then we look back through history at the universal horror movies we make them a collection but they weren't really all being developed that way except for the direct sequels you know like obviously the creature for the

black lagoon kind of three movies all match up and most of the early uh you know uh Frankenstein films but they weren't being developed in that pipeline that in that pipeline keeps failing them you know they're trying to enter connect these stories I don't think you need that but I think

were you to have found a way to take to change this ending even more drastically than we have to bring that character to the forefront that clements character I think you could have had a potential a franchise there if that's what you wanted yeah I just think it needed more surprises it needed uh

and another issue is how do they not find a way to destroy him earlier like they say well we don't know where he is they have the daylight to their advantage and we they know he's got to be below them at the very there's so much time and they don't search the ship until they like very last yes when you're gonna make a feature like film of this you have to deal with that piece and I think that's where this movie you know it's just I it's hard to get beyond that because if you're choosing

to make this you have to go into this thinking I need you know you gotta be creative you gotta think outside the box I think for the most part they do it again it is so good it's so much better than you expect on one level that I wanted it to get fully over the finish line I wanted to be one of

the like a great movie it just isn't yeah and the thing is I like the Clemens character a lot but I just don't love what they do with that that very ending I don't know I like I like the idea that you put is like this could be the new van Helsing but I don't like the way they went

no it's not done very well because if he is if he is Dracula's adversary and we know the storyline and where it ends up are we just to assume the Dracula is gonna kill him in the next scene and if he he is Abraham bed housing or the Van Helsing stand in then what's he doing and if he if he is

then he's already changed the course of this story why couldn't he change the course of story while he's on the boat yeah yeah that's my thing it going back to the alternate thing like they do small things to do it is like an alternate storyline but nothing that really majorly changes this film in general but yeah yeah there's so much potential there but it's just the end of the day.

The good movie not a great one yeah much better than the May both of them ultimately we're not quite the movies I was hoping they'd be but they're out there to see and I think the Demeter would be a fun one to rent and watch around Halloween so to me it's a it's a priority rental definitely

check it out your monster movie fan see it but I would definitely watch it before you buy it personally unless you're someone who's gonna collect you know get everything but it's a fun movie I did quite enjoy it and I think it's worth a rental price but maybe not that $20 rental price

like you say yeah that's those are our two newer movie reviews and then we'll move on to our next segment so I'm gonna throw the ball over to you okay thanks Nathan yeah I was very saddened to hear about the passing of William Freakin and I'm sure if you're listening to this podcast you've

probably heard of him he directed the extra-sists probably the most famous horror movie ever made at least in the last 50 years it's a pity that we lost him he kept directing up to his last years there's a documentary I guess before I forget I wanted to mention there's a documentary that's

accessible on 2b called Freakin Uncut it might be on shutter as well that's where I saw it originally but the movie's from 2018 and it's got an amazing interview that he gave when he was 83 and it's I don't think it's quite a feature length but it's close to it and he goes over a lot of stuff with

regard to the extra-sist and how he got it to be so visceral because I don't know about you guys but that that is one of the things that makes the extra-sists so electrifying I think and there's there are several of his films that really have torn holes in my brain but man the extra-sist

just the opening the first act is just insane I mean it's very gritty it's just showing you like these gradually turning wheels of the plot coming together right before the possession and it's still creeps me out to watch it the way he uses audio in that movie is revolutionary as an audio

guy I really appreciate it and I found out a few tricks that he did to achieve the desired result in that documentary Freakin Uncut so yeah track it down but yeah let's just say okay he's got a horror filmography and he's got a thriller film filmography which is a little longer but obviously

besides the extra-sist he also directed a movie called Bug this is not the 1975 killer flaming bugs movie this is a lot more recent it it's a psychological drama with Michael Shannon and Ashley Judd as respectively an unhinged war vet and a lonely woman hiding out in an Oklahoma hotel room talking that is the film but trust me it is gripping and a little terrifying have have you guys seen this?

yes I actually saw this in the theater in a kind of a weird circumstance we were buying tickets to go see what like the at the time the last of the Pirates of Carebeam movies and of course it made like three more but at the time we were getting tickets to see that was myself my buddy for a bunch

of us that were going out later and then we saw this on the marquee and I really didn't even know what it was but I saw Freakin's name I saw Ashley Judd's name and I and it's the just the little card that they had there I didn't even have full poster it was just a title and kind of a picture

sort of to the side of it and I thought hey this could be where see we have a couple hours to kill instead of going back we just went into this movie and this was gonna be like oh the light mat name movie before this Pirates of the Carebeam film and we'll hook down to it was later and we

were like well we didn't see that coming this was my introduction really to Michael Shannon I think I might have seen him in shotgun stories or something small before this but this was the movie where I was like wow this guy is like he's got it you know yeah same I think I think I

may have seen him first so bug was 2006 and I I could have sworn my first recollection of him was as a character in boardwalk empire the HBO crime show but that bug may have been before that and I just didn't know who he was he was just like some great actor that was in this movie that

was watching yeah boardwalk empire was like a few years later in 2010 okay so yeah bug was first for me too this would not be my first introduction of Michael Shannon because I came to this one well after the fact and I can't remember it's bits every years now but I do remember not at all seen

where this thing was going to go and see now it descends into the places it does I think it's an excellent little pretty much single location movie right if I'm remembering right more or less yeah yeah yeah in the acting is fantastic and yeah it's it's not playing it safe I'll say that much

yeah it's just it's just people talking the whole time um but uh yeah it's riveting because you're you're dying to find out what is gonna happen to them or if what the vet is saying is true and uh yeah it's pretty it's pretty gripping but uh yeah there's a there's another film that he

directed which I have not seen unfortunately not seen yet I should say called the guardian have either of you seen that oh yeah I can I can take this the guardian is crazy movie from I want to say 1990 yeah yeah it's it's extraordinarily strange and it is it's sort of free kin delving into

it's a horror film but also has kind of that like a erotic thriller vibe that was big in the 90 although really that was just arriving right because this is 1990 we're still a couple of years out from the single white females and hand the rocks of cradles and basic instincts all that this is

still very much a supernatural horror film but it has that vibe of almost like what I would later think would be like the lifetime movie where the characters you've got this primary character bit I mean I think the movie opens up with this she is a a dry ad or some sort of wood spirit

forest spirit that worships a baby eating tree which is more like the the deity that she represents she's sort of the she's the go-between she's the one that requires that she's the food provider she goes and finds some babies because she in her human form is a hot nanny and she goes

to be a hot nanny for these sort of yuppie couples that are always gone and their children are in her care and then she when she gets an opportunity she takes them feeds them to the tree and you know most of this almost right off the bat and then the rest of the movie proceeds in that classic vein

where yes she's a creepy forest spirit but nobody knows that so the husband's coming on to her she seducing the neighbors and that sort of thing and in the middle of all this you have a scene where someone is trying to fight a tree with a chainsaw and prevent it from eating anymore babies

were you watching the same lifetime movies that I've seen Nathan or I'm talking about the basic I'm not eating a eating tree out you've got the infidelity you've got the new being the new parents and how horrible and difficult it is to be rich and then you've got you throw in the baby

eating tree you know that's a big exclusion I mean well they take the same template in a later movie they train it out for alcohol or watch it too much porn no I'm just maybe eating trees or problem no absolutely get where you're coming from I mean that sounds like it fits in with that time

period of movies I feel like with is it as crazy as it sounds or is it more of the just it's crazy it's an odd mix it's you can see that you can see the freaking that trafficked in the same circles that came up with movies like traders cat people and things

like that it wants to be that kind of film but it's like just a little too rushed it's like just a little too goofy and if anyone I think could make you believe in a baby eating tree I think it would be freaking because the thing I want to say about him and it's true including his

non-horror films movies like the French connection cruising sorcerer I know we talk about sorcerer Victor like an amazing remake really of wages of fear great great films but what they have in common and you can see this in the exercise is he has when he's on point he had this very

cool way of building a world that felt entirely realistic and and what I mean by entirely realistic is not realistic until the weird thing shows up but realistic with the weird thing in it like the fact that the exercise starts with them digging in those ruins right it puts us

in that far-flung mystical world right off the bat then you bring in those tubular bells when we're in the more mundane world and there's this weird crossover where the spiritual and we're gonna probably talk about the movie remember a few later the spiritual world and the real world

feel comangled like right from the beginning yeah right from beginning and so you believe that Reagan has possessed you believe that the devil is a crazy horn dog it just wants to mess with these priests you are fully invested this because there's some crazy potentially

eye-rolling things that happen in the axis but by that point you're there and the guardian I need to go back to watch it but my feeling is that doesn't happen though the guardian I feel a freaking feels a little bit more like he's a higher gun that didn't quite get on the same

wave like but it's a wacky movie I do like it I'm probably gonna pick up blue right yeah I'm intrigued I want to see it now but yeah you touched on a few of his thrillers I'd like to talk about them and I can't wait to talk with you guys about the exercise but yeah the the basic story of his

career as a superstar director started when he made the French connection I think he won the Oscar for Best Picture and Best Director for that movie which is great it's a crime thriller it's got Jean Hackman there was a famous car chase scene in it which is my favorite car chase scene ever

filmed in the movies and doing research from the show today or for the show today I found out that it was illegal he didn't have permits Hackman was just driving the car around and fortunately didn't kill anybody I mean that what what else can you say I mean but it's an amazing

scene and when you see that sequence and it's one of the great sequences of film period like if you even don't plan to watch a French connection go watch the car chase but you should see the whole movie yeah but when you watch it sequence it's amazing to know and got killed

yeah it's I mean it really looks intense and I mean the emotions are real that's why that's why it looks that way but but it's also very well filmed I mean he's he's a very competent filmmaker already at this point and he I think when he run one that that Oscar he was

maybe the youngest director to ever win the Oscar or the second youngest I forget but he was really young like 33 or something like that and the movie also electrified a writer named William Peter Blattie and William Peter Blattie wrote the exorcist it's an excellent book it's gripping

gripping read from start to finish and he later went on to direct his own movie the ninth configuration which is highly recommended also which is sort of a sequel to the exorcist but don't you don't think it's going to be a good idea about demons and possession it's more of a

character study but it's really good I highly recommend that and I it has horror elements in it so you know I think it's a weird movie it's really almost I can't fit into a single genre hard works about as well as any but like the exorcist the ninth configuration not directed by William

Friedkin is a great cinematic example of faith that's one of the things that I love about that movie is there's a thing that he does I can't tell you what it is because it would be a spoiler but there's a thing that he does to the main character in the movie where he questions his faith and

in his journey throughout the movie he resolves that crisis point and it's it's beautifully done likewise in the exorcist but anyway just to frame all this the exorcist was 73 right 73 now we we have to imagine just a few years before this movie which is still shocking to watch

today Hollywood was making completely different movies like Dr. Doe Little and the 10 Commandments and stuff like that they were really stuck in these big budget g-rated you know lavish productions and and then 1967 happened and you know the graduate and the heat of the night and and all and

Bonnie and Clyde those movies revolutionized what audiences really wanted to see younger audiences you know and and they put their butts in the seats and they went to see those movies and they dictated the direction of where Hollywood is going and this is exactly what Friedkin needed to do

the French connection so he was part of that I wouldn't say like part of that troop like he wasn't in with those guys but he was part of that generation of young revolutionary filmmakers at the time and of course you can imagine what the exorcist did to people's brains when it came out in 73

I was alive at that time and I do remember seeing lines of people wrapped around the block at the movie theater going to see the exorcist and I was like hey what's that and my parents were like never mind they did not want me to see it but like all things eventually I made my way

to it and yeah it's incredible so now everybody has a different experience when watching the exorcist for the first time but I want to hear about you guys like Nathan what did you what was your take on it like did you what would you know much about it going in or what so I think this is an interesting thing is I thought I knew going in like I was a whore I saw this a little bit later I saw it I said later it was a really like a beginning of high school so it was only ninth grade but still

you know for me I'd seen a lot of horror movies I felt like I'd seen a lot of movies I knew of the exorcist I was interested in it but I still thought I had a basic idea of what was going on I was really sick when I saw it so I had the full I was much sick right now I had a full

balloon fever like a bit vomiting and you know you get to that one point in your illness where you're like too sick to sleep but too tired to do anything else and so you're just sort of staring into the mid-distance or at whatever your eyes will focus upon and so and my memory is that most

of my other siblings were sick along with me and you know our parents were getting any sleep so we're all sort of just awake but I turn even being that we're in high school so I can go and I can turn the TV on and start watching something and the exorcist is playing and it's clearly just

started and keep in mind I'm watching this it's not network television it's cable but it's not like HBO so even whatever I'm watching is still edited but it shocked me I was not you know at that point in time I've seen enough horror movies a very few even the classic horror movies when I got

around to seeing Halloween they didn't shock me like there wasn't anything in that film that I didn't expect to encounter in those other movies but in the exorcist totally was a little shocked because I didn't expect it to go where it did when it gets when Reagan is finally possessed I knew

about the pea soup I didn't know about her urinating on the floor and the horrible thing she sang and her stabbing herself in the groin with the crucifix all of which by the way is still represented like because of the way it's shot and it's done they were still able to play it somehow on

television because you don't see a lot of it a lot of it is implied even in the final cut now some of those lines were clearly not in there and later I'm like oh that's even more colorful than I thought but it wasn't the language or it wasn't even the the acts but I did come from and I think

this is an interesting point I came from a very religious family and we were very religious at the time and I say religious we were you know Protestant Christian and the experience of seeing that movie and seeing that portrayal of Satan done in a way that was profane but serious like and he's

serious it's made series not by the shenanigans of the devil and the possession and the demon it's made serious by the performances that are surrounding it and then it includes Linda Blair but specifically when you're talking about those priests and and Damien Cara some particular right

like that portrayal that he does is so good and because we take him seriously and we feel his pain and his uncertainty and his wavering of his faith like we feel those things that gives the devil its weight I think it's not something but seeing those things happen and the movie not blank the

movie's not winking at you when she's stabbing herself in the crotch with the crucifix you're watching this young girl like mutilate herself and have this moment of cry like she is deteriorated to this point and you are legitimately afraid and concerned to worry for her and the emotions were

just so like like it and again I should probably put this up front for people who haven't seen the actress as a you know spoilers here I'm not going to go into the very end of the film but even the end of the film and what happens because in a tip I'm still expecting the beats we

we're used to right like at some point the heavy is going to come in and we know that the backup and we've met father carous and oh my gosh like maximum seed I like that make up and everything like that is exactly how maximum seed I would look like 30 or 40 years later right like it

it's it you could have put it back in the film and it would have looked the same but again it's that shocking bit that it all felt so real so when the movie's over I was disconnected I was sick I was not feeling well and that probably added up to the disturbed feeling but the other

thing is when you're sick for me anyway it's very it takes something to break through and really capture your attention and make you that invested and this movie might have been the only thing in that moment that could have done that to where it was over I was like gobsmacked and then I went

to sleep for six hours wow that's a hard movie to do to me they're therapeutic they're like they relax me and I'm like okay I'm good but wow that was like therapy that was a wild ride but I loved that it it felt so contained and when it's over you feel like you've gone on a journey

and he hasn't he doesn't he doesn't trade up he doesn't sacrifice the good versus evil but he treated in such a real way like he really believes in it and that's freaky that's very freaky yeah it's not easy to do but yeah what about you trade it when did you first encounter this film yeah

so I probably have a wildly different experience than both of you growing up in the time I did because at this point I remember being nine or ten years old and well one you know the the urinating scene was parodied and I think like scary movie or something and that would have been a film that I

saw before the exorcist but growing up and you'd play these I remember playing these flash games and maybe focusing on getting like a ball through a maze or something and then regans like for lack of a better term fully transformed face would be would pop up to scare you and honestly but I

always this was before I saw the movie and I got to say that image just that's still image of regans face terrified me as a child yeah so when I finally got to the movie and it was probably on I'm guessing it's the way I saw a lot of the other older classic films and that would be on AMC

during like their Halloween season and things like that so like Nathan I saw the edited version of this first but I'm trying to remember I'm sure I was afraid of it but I don't have the distinct memory of fear like I did with something like the Omen that I had watched late one night but the exorcist over the years has just stuck with me and I think and this is gonna be odd to say and it's kind of like Nathan says but therapeutic nature is this is kind of like a a comfort movie for

me I'll throw it on every couple years in October and it just gives me like I don't what it is but I just like lose myself in this film and get completely enthralled and it's definitely one of my favorite

horror films ever but I don't know if I was maybe desensitized to it a little bit but even if I was I don't think it prepares you for like Nathan said the cross scene or things like that because this movie is just intense and it's not afraid to go anywhere and it doesn't pull me punches but yeah

it's model no go ahead Victor no it's gonna say it's muddled and I probably got to it somewhere around probably around the same age as Nathan honestly when I saw it on TV but yeah it's it's definitely stuck with me through the years man oh man yeah yeah it was a trip I really I know I

was a teenager when I saw it but I don't remember exactly how old I do remember the face and when when you guys were talking about that I mean I remembered that the original trailer that Fred can wanted to use for the exorcist just has that face and it's a flash if you've seen the trailer

for the new exorcist movie coming out by David Gordon Green he pays an homage to the original exorcist trailer by having this sort of flashing black and white image of the face except he uses the the actors in the new movie to do it instead of that face but that's all the trailer was

was like 15 seconds of that and I think somebody at the at the film studio said no we're not doing that and they you know they they said you know make a real trailer but that would have been creepy to see you imagine I'm sitting there thinking about it like and just this crazy music playing

in the background I think you can it's on YouTube like I think you can find it on YouTube but yeah be warned it's not it's not fun to watch and yeah the face freak me out like it freaked me out in the movie like it's just it's like half a frame you see it and then it's gone and you're like what what

was that you know it's just so creepy I'm getting chills thinking about it Victor like that yeah it's so creepy you're absolutely right well you know it's interesting that the the exorcist and the I'm always looking for a lovecraftian angle and I mean the exorcist and the French connection

both start with something bad coming from a foreign country and it makes its way to the United States where we think you know everything's idyllic and you know it's like suburbia and everything's lovely until the presence of the evil thing starts insinuating its in people's lives in yeah

the French connection its drugs from France and that's the connection and you're right lovecraft was definitely of the foreign stuff is scary and dangerous mindset yeah making anything that's not American just scary like that's that's the basic but I mean this is just a seed that freed

kin used for the beginning of these movies but it's very effective because when it starts out in a foreign land you know you're already out of your element like you're already oh that's cool like what's that like you know I mean the opening shots the exorcist are incredible like Iraq and

that dig site and and also that really creepy image of the dogs fighting like you know something bad's gonna happen when you see that it's just it's it's just a eerie you know right it gives an epic sensibility to it for a movie that you know the most bombastic chapters of that film are

going to take place in one room in a kid's bedroom up inside that house he yeah he it's he appeals that back in the beginning I thought that was like so wonderful boy he did that yeah and it starts out like completely in the completely opposite type of setting like wide open space

is apple sunlight like you know different area of the world and and then it gets zeroes in on Reagan's room for the last the last scene oh man well incredible but um yeah do you guys have any more exorcist comments before we move on to his other movies

I only have one and it's probably a segue to a movie because I don't know if any of you guys have seen it but you know the one thing that has to be said about the exorcist I think it is a lot of it's down to a free construction but also obviously plot this book is wow like the

effect it had on the church you know and the church in lots of ways benefited from and particularly the Catholic church at the time you know they saw an uptick in confessions and church attendance and everything else people were you know the effective tool you know to scare people into you

know salvation or at least you know short-term repentance seem to do the trick but an interesting thing for someone who grew up in the church and who would hear people talk from time to time about some of the things that are in this film and would take not the things in this film but that

world this world view of demons and an unseen adversary sort of lurking around at every angle and that's a cool thing about freaking doing that opening where it ties it back to the ancient world and these things have been around for a while like what's interesting is what I would hear

people with a hundred percent certainty and this is this is probably a whole different podcast episodes well it's been a lot of time on people talking with certainty about the the other world if you will the worlds of demons and angels and they talk about demons and

people that were were a serious about this as anything else they talk about life and we're I believe sincere in in their beliefs but they would describe demons and possession and I as I listened to it I had this thought process which was oh my gosh like what they're describing

isn't really anything that was in scripture in the bible that's supposed to form everything that they think this is this is like the exorcist like the exorcist wasn't just a revolutionary for films it it helped the church build an entire devil mythology and they didn't even know that

they did it yeah yeah I think a Freedkin does yeah he does say something about that in the Freedkin Uncut documentary about how there was an imporing of priests in training when that came out and he was like you know like his mechanic lost one of his his assistance and was like he's going to

become a priest thanks you know that's a thing for all the protests and stuff that I've heard of I obviously wasn't there this is a very like pro I mean like maybe not necessarily but the who's the good guys in this film it's the priest and yeah they're seeing there and they're casting out this demon and father carousas just shown as this you know very pure soul and all this stuff and yeah I think it I think it's more of an advertisement for the the church in ways than maybe they believe

to themselves at the time and maybe in the the church and religious institutions oh yeah absolutely yeah I think the the two the two priests are definitely heroes in this they're they're almost action heroes in this movie but it's done in as you guys have said in in a very realistic

fashion so that by the time they are called to action you believe it like you believe what they're doing that they're totally in character and it all makes sense and the ending is still shocking and uh it's just it's incredible it's also it strikes me in horror films a lot of times

the trade I think that you're looting to the religious characters are the bad guys or if not the bad guys they are off point they don't believe they're usually the first ones eaten killed or they are turned because of their you know their their faith is like so quickly tuned to fanaticism

I believe yeah or they've taken yeah like you said they've become zealots they've taken it too far they do maybe truly believe but it's too much yeah so you get to see the the buffoon or the where the the scam artist that gets their come-up ends or it's they're usually zealots who end up

causing the horror or aligning with the horror so to have them as the heroes here is like impressive but I think the other thing is when later on and when we see like some people within church actually want to try to make movies like this and they make these films are supposed to

have good and evil and are supposed to be sort of uplifting they end up coming off cheesy and hokey and here I think it's interesting I don't know go too much into this you have these characters who have a belief in God and even possibly a shaken faith in one of the instances

and yet their actions at the moment of their heroism their heroism is tied to their faith like to to the to the like aspects of Christ like the characters heroic actions represent his heroic beliefs and even in so-called faith-based films I don't think you see that a lot where they're they're

Christ-like belief translate to Christ-like action but that's what happens in this film yeah I I don't think I've seen anything quite like it until silence by Scorsese which is not an action movie but yeah it's a similar path that the you know the the main character follows

and that like trying to find his faith and what what that means to him but man yeah anyway highly recommend the exorcist and one thing Victor sorry yeah sure sorry I'll go before we move on but but one thing that this definitely caused Ripple's through healthy industry as well is you had

exorcist ripoffs left and right you know things like the Italian film beyond the door and and all that pop up and recently I was researching for a show the Amityville horror they were told you know Kitter and Brolin and when they were doing interviews and stuff they were told to

you know make up stories make it seem like it was a cursed film because the exorcist has this cursed film aura around it and they were told during press you know interviews and everything hey make make something up you know don't whatever you do don't tell them that the set was just normal

so the people the story's based off of did it know you do it yeah exactly but the the exorcist truly was a troubled production and I don't think we have time to go into it on the show but maybe we'll do a feature on that someday but yeah there were a lot of

problems with with the actors and the actor is getting abused and the set falling apart and there are all kinds of things weird things that happened on the set which give it an even earier air but anyway it turned out to be an awesome movie if you don't mind is that have any of you seen the devil and father and Morth no so I've seen it but it's an interesting because it's really a documentary where Friedkin and this is where you kind of see that Friedkin you know he's still sort of the

pro church or at least you know he's on he's he's he's got the open door to listen to them and so he's father and Morth is known Vatican exorcist and he exorcist and he takes Friedkin along to learn more about exorcist and how it goes on in the church and whether the church allows it and he's this is his ninth exorcism on this Italian lady and then they Friedkin is there to sort of document it and that sounds like amazing right like you're like the director of the exorcist in you know and

he's got like access now to a real exorcist and a real exorcism and yet it's just not very exciting you know you watch it and you're like oh no this needed the movie this needed the movies this needed that excitement and that that that that that world that Friedkin created so it's

very interesting to see and I'm not saying that I'm right he something this like comes off like a sham or anything you're just watching this though and it just it feels flat and it's a it's a reminder that while he was creating a world that felt real it was also making sure he created

a world that was very much a movie world which I think is a good segway to some of his other films yeah absolutely yeah thanks for bringing that up um yeah but he again he's specialized in thrillers and I think I think you can feel a lot of that in the exorcist but yeah Jade is a kind

of a sleazy erotic thriller that he did it didn't make too much of an impression on me but a lot of people love that movie it's got a script by Joe Astorhoss so you know basic instinct guys so maybe there's something there that I missed but yeah yeah killer Joe with McConnay as a corrupt

sheriff that's a hitman I think have you seen that one yes that's that's not horror but that kit that's definitely that southern Gothic in the vein of southern Gothic nor in the vein of like the co-embrothers yes very very good movie yes um yeah I recommend that but don't have dinner while you're uh don't get don't get a bucket of chicken especially if you're eating chicken yeah yeah to live in

Dianna L.A. Oh yeah so there's this love hate affair between Billy Friedkin and Michael Mann one of my favorite directors also uh where they were buddies for a while and I have I found a rumor I don't I haven't been able to fact check this but a rumor that Michael Mann interviewed or did a casting

uh when he was casting Hannibal Lecter for Man Hunter he thought that Friedkin might be a good actor for that part and uh I you know I can't imagine anybody except Brian Cox doing that all right but it would have been interesting uh and I kind of get it like you know

Friedkin's a pretty intense fast-talking guy so there are some aspects that are that are in there but uh you know I think it would have made that great scene where Will encounters Lecter and Hunter a little ridiculous if you know if you know it's a director yes yes but yeah and you

know I just saw the the keep and the the opening shots of the keep which are gorgeous by the way directed by Michael Mann clearly an homage to Sorcerer with the trucks and the you know the rainy village and and all that stuff like you know clearly these guys admired each other but

it was over to live in Dianna L.A. like when Friedkin did to live in Dianna L.A. which also stars William Peterson as the main character Michael Mann felt that it was too close to what he had written for the his the episode of Miami Vice that he did which is establishes the Crocket

character like he's an undercover cop and you know he's trying to bust this uh this well in to live in Dianna L.A. it's a counterfeit ring um but yeah he deals with kind of the the sensibility of like corrupt cop or not really corrupt but um bad and yeah good counterfeiter

but you know like an anti villain and anti hero meet and and try to get each other that is a very Michael Mann like idea like that pops up a lot in Mann's movies anyway man thought it was too close and he tried to sue Friedkin I presumably that's where their friendship ended

but uh Michael Mann lost the suit it wasn't similar enough to uh to have him win I can see the Miami Vice stuff but yeah I don't I don't think he would have had a very credible lawsuit yeah uh yeah I don't think there's there's enough there I mean it's a pretty I mean it's a

specific story but it's it's different characters so yeah I I agree with that decision and that's got a great car chase in it too yeah yeah absolutely but uh yeah then there's a cruising I have not seen that have either of you guys seen that I have that's an interesting it's a very

interesting movie and it's it's another one where uh people being aware of what they're getting into but you've got that one again not horror but definitely thriller and pretty be strong thriller but you got alpuchino and I think the thing is that what makes it sort of stand out is that it

takes place in like the underground like gay cults or particularly like the SNM's love the stuff of like New York City and there's a serial killer killing gay men in that vicinity and you've got the detective whose undercover is alpuchino so got alpuchino in that world so you talk again

free can be very gritty and very direct you can imagine what this film is like this is 1980 but that serial killer element makes the movie intense but then you're seeing this world that is not very often seen on film and so it's a it's a pretty fascinating movie just be aware it's also a

pretty hard-edged movie yeah and then I guess sorcerer is that's my personal favorite movie that freed kin ever directed but uh it's not it's not really a horror movie like you said at the top of the show Nathan it is I believe it's the best remake ever made because I love wages of fear

and it's it's a great great movie similar story but what freed kin does is the people the the the basic premise of sorcerer and wages of fear is a bunch of expatriates and criminals decide to drive a couple of trucks with TNT or wouldn't know with nitroglycerin on board to a very rocky

location to stop a natural disaster from happening and because these characters are so desperate they sign up for it and they they're all kind of very sketchy dudes obviously things happen along the way where they're pitted against each other they're pitted against nature they're pitted

against time you know it gets very very intense and sorcerer again the Michael Mann connection soundtrack by Tangerine Dream which uh it's an amazing soundtrack yeah pops up a lot in man's movies too yeah it's a great yeah it's a great soundtrack yeah the what what freed kin does that's different

in uh sorcerer is he shows the pre exile lives of these guys who sign up for the this crazy mission and what's for some reason that telegraphed to me when I was watching it that this movie is really about the apocalypse like it's really about how all life ends like in this sort of crawling downward

spiral that these guys are sucked into so that they that it culminates in their trip with these trucks to to the the target place and it inspired me to write a doomsday short story actually called a discourse a discourse of philosophy between a man and an unexploded atomic bomb there's

really no relation between my story and this movie except that emotionally that's what I felt when I was watching it so the reason I really wanted to to mention all these thrillers was just because you guys listening are horror fans we're horror fans and I think that there's something in

all these movies we mentioned that you guys will find appealing and cool but yeah what about what about sorcerer did you guys see that one yeah that's one of my favorite movies at night I also made huge ran away just a fear and it's just fascinating how it how it looks how it feels you know

and that immediacy that's in that film I can't what you're saying Victor about like because watching it has very much in fact it has more of an apocalyptic field on apocalypse now but you know it has a very end of the world or this is all there's this will nothing else matters

because of this thing that we're stuck in right like it it doesn't matter even if the rest of the world goes on because the world around us is collapsing and it's just handled so again it kind of like it shrinks on one hand the focus and it expands this idea of a world we don't know much

about but like I I agree I think sorcerer can be appreciated by horror fans I think particularly in the movies we've mentioned that both the course bug and the guardian are straight up horror films but I think that movies like killer Joe and cruising they would fit that bill too where he's really

on that dark line of like what's inside of people's hearts but then he's great at making the physical world dangerous too yeah and like I had mentioned off air yeah unfortunately I've only seen three of Friedkins films and we've mentioned two of those so yeah it seems like I got a lot of homework

to do you guys definitely have me interested in some of these other films highly recommended all the films I talked about I couldn't give them a higher recommendation but yeah anybody listening for you guys if you ever find yourself in Hollywood and you're feeling sentimental about losing

Friedkin his star is on the Hollywood Walk of Fame at 69 25 Hollywood Boulevard and yeah just go check out his stuff because the man lived eight and breathed movies and it shows so yeah all right he yeah and if you've never seen the exorcist now's the time yeah so sad to say goodbye to Friedkin

we do have an all a great body of his work and I I'm very interested in going back and checking out the guardian and he had a bunch of thrillers I haven't seen many of them but I'm looking through his filmography and he had a decent number of thrillers into two thousand that I'm not that familiar

with like I don't think I ever saw hunted yeah I didn't either but we should mention one last note is the you know the exorcist turns 50 this December so and that's definitely left its legacy it's hard to believe that one is that old yeah and then we're still we're still making still making

exorcist movies and shout out to to bloody who's already passed but he you know his exorcist three is is pretty good too it follows I think a lot of the more than the other any of the other sequels it follows some of the same conventions that that Friedkin was using in a different way yeah

yeah bloody I did read this today too he he I guess in those days in the early 70s certain writers were superstars kind of like Stephen King is now and he he had control complete control over the exorcist movie that the studio wanted to make he had a complete control over choice of director

and after he saw the French connection he was like that guy that's what we need that's awesome and and you can you can see that he had like there's there's actual affection for the work that was done on that on that film in the exorcist but yeah well yeah I yeah I'm really sorry that he he's

no longer making movies but yeah I think we we did him justice today and we know we're huge fans and hope we got a few more people out there to go watch his work but yeah with that I'll turn it back over to you guys yeah cool so I think what we'll do now we do have probably have a few of our

mini reviews of things we've been watching and stuff but what I do want to take time to do first is do a review of a brand new harm of your relatively brand new mate it's probably been out about a month this point that we are reviewing it maybe a little bit less but just take me a little bit

to get to the theater to see it and this is 2023's talk to me and try you I think you were the most recent person to see this although I think we all saw it within the last week yeah so yesterday there you go yeah I'm gonna turn it over to you to kind of take us if you're cool then take

us into the movie and talk about it and then we can discuss this will be a spoiler free review for everyone who's listening and if we do talk spoilers we'll throw up a a warning beforehand yeah so this is um I would say it wouldn't be an understatement to say that this was has been hyped up for a

while now ever since it's premier on the festivals and directed by Danny and Michael uh Philip who who are Australian I believe right yes okay yeah and we get a little flavor of that so talk to me is I want to say and let's set it up first but it's a very it's very simple in

what it does but I think it does it so well and this film opens and we get this very much a cold open and I'm not gonna spoil any of that for anyone but a very good solid cold open but this movie basically follows these kids who have possession of this hand and when they grab

onto it they get pulled into this other world they start seeing spirits and things like that and they kind of treat it as a game and we focus on our main character here who had lost her mother two years before and you know she's dealing with some stuff her dad's dealing with some

stuff she's kind of hanging out at a Miranda Auto's house and yeah it's just I just love I don't want to say too much about it for anyone who hasn't seen this because I think I went in very blind to this knowing nothing but about the hand that is on the poster and I think you should try

to go in that way as well but I think we get a lot of psychological stuff I think the film has some messages and some things to say but what I think it just does best is it doesn't try to get too fancy it doesn't try to overcomplicate things it just drives forward and it gives us some really

good genuine horror so I'm going to quit rambling here and turn it over to you guys what are your initial thoughts on talk to me Nathan let's start with you I had seen the trailers I knew this was a 24 I didn't get a chance to see this at Sundance because I wasn't I did some of the online stuff

this year but I wasn't physically there so I didn't get a chance to see talk to me but I will say this you know there was a lot of hype for it and I tried to kind of like go under that hype because almost immediately I started hearing things like it's better than hereditary and I'm like yeah that's just what we need because hereditary course works so well because in those sense nobody really knew it was coming right yeah and I think that's when these films work the best this one really

did work for me and I like you I don't want to go into the plot to any more than you did really I can talk a little bit of the characters because I thought this movie did a pretty good job and we've seen other horror films do this in recent years where they do an interesting job of

communicating the concept of something like grief or aging or you know a movie like it follows with promiscuity and things like that and of course I don't think that this is much and if you think it is straight cut it but I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that there's an

element in talk to me where this hand and the lore of the hand and the lore of the what the hand cat kind of propels you into what it's a gateway to the feelings that it creates in you it's really like a drug metaphor right and this very much felt like as I was watching this film it's very

australian it's very twisty and turny in in in a psychological horror way where there are physical things going on but the forces at work here are going to look different depending on who's talking about them and and who's you know which character wants to deal with them some people

you know these kids initially want to encounter the supernatural and it's like a thrill for them but each character has a different reasoning for doing it so I think the character work on this is particularly strong but the other thing that worked for me was just how kind of creepy

we creepily intense it is when it comes to those those scenes because we've seen scenes of ghost popping up we've seen scenes of people being possessed so often that those are the parts of the movie that I normally gloss over I was expecting good acting I was hoping there would be a very

kind of atmospheric moody sensibility to it and they're totally is but what I was a little bit surprised about is that the possession sequences do work in their own way in a kind of weird way that's different than I usually seen there's a lot of energy and a lot of kind of dark humor involved

in it I love that there's a really creepy sequence involving a kangaroo oh it really did kind of these guys they have a YouTube channel which I just discovered before I sent Trey a video and he was like why did you make me watch that but I wasn't I just

think it changed the button to send to you Victor because we started like two seconds before but a lot of their videos are horror like shorts and most of them seem to feature Ronald McDonald oh boy just watch when I'm on a McConnell murdering everybody inside of a chicken fried chicken

place so the and thanks to me Trey has seen it too but they're they have a they have a like a very energetic way to the to the to the filming these horror scenes they're way into it may is might be influenced by being able to have to make something that's four to five minutes long right and

then it everything that happens in it has enough energy to propel you through and then you're ready to watch another video and there's this doesn't feel to me it didn't feel very segmented or broken up but it was a small sequences have a life of their own like they almost exist unto themselves

but then they're nestled into this story they kind of keeps going back and forth and you're trying to get a handle on you know it's very twisty and turning I don't think that's any kind of spoiler but you're just now constantly being the story just keeps sort of flipping around just a little bit

to another movie in the wake of talking about the exercise these directors they manage and these actors they manage to make you believe in this world of the supernatural and and I like the characters being afraid of the supernatural is different than being afraid of serial killer right like

particularly supernatural the deals with the possibilities of heaven and hell because I think what the exercise has is a fear that goes beyond death right and this movie has some of that too ah it it was freaky to me as well I haven't seen too many horror movies that felt freaky to me

it didn't really scare me but the ambiance is there I really enjoyed this one a lot I think it is very strong it's probably getting over a hype the little bit because I it doesn't feel breathtakingly original but it is a very good example of the kind of movie the this concept is done just about

as well as it can be done yeah and you mentioned a couple things there's characterization is excellent in this and it's only I think an hour and 37 minutes and they've hit all the characterization that you need into these characters without hitting you over the head with exposition so thinking

out that Nathan and freaky because there's a scene when they first I think when things first go a rye is all I'll say here there's one particular thing that a character does that had me freaking out a little bit but Victor go ahead you haven't really had a chance to get in on this what are your

initial thoughts on this movie no well 30,000 mile high view is I I did not think it was as earth shaking as hereditary but I think that it's partially due to what you guys said before that I went into hereditary expecting nothing and this has been super hyped I do think talk to me is very good and

here's the thing that I discovered in research I walked out of the theater very satisfied everything you guys just said 100% true I totally agree I read I just found out that this is the first feature that Danny and Michael Phillipu directed and it's also the first feature

that Sophie Wilde the main the main woman the actor did and she's got a writing credit on the film too so I think that all three of those guys are people to watch because this is a incredibly well put together production the Australian thing I really I hate to say this because I'm always

the guy that's like no on Netflix like you know watching the original language and put the subtitles on I don't want to hear the English version you know because it always sounds kind of weird but I wish I had subtitles for the first 10 minutes of the movie because I really could not make

out what they're saying. I think you're right yeah but then something happens where you're like all of a sudden you speak Australian and yeah I just had to concentrate a little more and anyway yeah so yeah Sophie Wilde Miranda Otto is in it you remember her from Lord of the Rings and yeah

another thing that I thought was really cool about it is the hand how similar it is to supposedly real world item that exists called the Hand of Glory which was the subject of lots of 19th century short stories and poems by the interesting yes the imaginative in that century but that's exactly what I thought of when I saw it too it looks like the Hand of Glory which I

assume is a purpose. Yes yeah I think that's intentional although it's never explicitly said that this is the Hand of Glory but it's really cool in that it's a hand that rests on the sort of the stump and that like the fingers are reaching out to the person who shakes the hand to start the

trip and I want to see them sell this as a game. Oh man yeah it's pretty it's pretty creepy the the audio when I went to see it was turned up to 11 and yes yes it could have to be but there aren't a couple of cool audio things like echoes that I noticed because it was so loud and

that was cool it's got it's got a cool audio track yeah I highly recommend it in the theater there are a lot of gasps and surprise and nobody absolutely no one in the theater was on their phones they were completely enraptured into the movie and yeah it's a compelling story it doesn't

overstay it's welcome like you said Trey it's it's brief and brutal at times and there's one or two unsinkable moments that I think elevate it beyond a merely good movie and yeah I really enjoyed it and Victor this is kind of breaking news here I want to touch on what you said about watching out for this duo but it's been announced now that there will be a sequel titled talk the number two me and that's not a joke that is from Fangoria and it's also been said that they also have already

filmed a screen life prequel following the Duckett character that's already been filmed. Oh cool so yeah there will be plenty more. Well I was in your YouTube guys they have to have three or four in tank yeah yeah no I think I get where you're coming from I see where because there were a couple points where I thought the movie was wrapping up or reaching its conclusion and you know I was like

man this seems pretty short it seems like it's not it shouldn't wrap up here and luckily it did in a couple times but yeah I want to say about the sound I think wasn't didn't we talk about that with Evil Dead Rhyse too yeah it's out of control honestly like I don't know anyone knows anything

about sound it's no which I watched another movie which was a very bombastic movie the same day and I had no issues with the sound in that one but when I was in talk to me it was like it was pretty intense and so my theory is that when they run these and they so the and I think while one

of the reason I missed a horror movie is maybe more than others because I believe the other film you saw was mission impossible right yes yes that was big and loud and there's a there's a certain like fervor that's always going on in the film and so everyone's you know even even the talking

scenes in a mission impossible film are still pretty you know horror movies I mean there's particularly some that are more on the indie side they can get very quiet and talky and then like I wonder and particularly film like this where there is a decent amount of conversation there's

decent amount of other things to happen the horror scenes are so loud I just experience this with insidious and it's like they were you're watching at home you're adjusting the sound well we adjusted sound based on a scene where two people are whispering in a dorm room like you know

20 minutes later when they go nuts on the violin I'm like hold on my ears so I wonder if that's part of it I think there's a general issue with sound mixing and audio mixing but I would say the theater people are cranking up the the sound on horror movies because they they have kind of

looped in all horror movies with the jump scare horror movies yeah yeah but I think that they think people are going to go see it because they just want those jump scares and it will why not make it more effective by cranking the volume to the max well now that this is now that it's that loud

character unzipping their jacket becomes a jump scare right yeah it was really bad I think in smile I remember watching that last year there were a couple scenes that were pretty bad but yeah back to this movie I think I don't know how much there are a couple of things I want to either

talk to you guys after we finish recording it or if you want to do a spoiler section because I do have a couple things to to talk about but is there anything else in general you want to talk about on this film no except that I thought it was I read something today that Danny and Michael

Philip who turned down the chance to direct a new film for the DC EU yes in favor of doing this and let me tell you guys if you're listening to the show you made the right choice well and I don't care what it is Victor if it's the MCU if it's the DC EU the thing is is we see this all the time

and we saw this with oh help me out here the candy man director Nita Costa jumping right to the marvels after that it seems like the formula is you do one in the hit you get a big budget movie throwing your feet you get a star worst movie throwing your feet you get something throwing your

feet and I think a lot of that times I'd rather see the natural progression of a director because they're usually subsumed even even a director like Sam Raimi his presence is felt but it's still a doctor strange movie you know what I mean yeah if you get out of line you get Edger

right it and pull it off of Ant-Man so it's different like it but look at the difference between the Sam I'm going off track here too but the Sam Raimi Spider-Man 2 for example and even Spider-Man 3 like you know what those movies felt very much Sam Raimi I don't think that like

the marvel film that he did it's got flourishes that are clearly Sam Raimi yes but the overall feel is not a Sam Raimi movie and I think people like the Phillipu hopefully and you know I also think of I'm sure they've gone after the the everything everywhere all at once guys right Daniels the

Daniels yeah I can't imagine what their Marvel movie would look like but they wouldn't make it out of the the pitch and I'd rather have a talk to me then you know these guys working on blade or something like that and you there's originality and there's energy here that should be let

allowed to roam free and not hemmed in to match up with the Hollywood and again I there are things in this movie like the way that kangaroo is used in other elements the the the real world in the supernatural world sort of ver merge that really reminds me of if we're talking Australian

directors a lot of and not it's maybe not quite as artsy but a lot of Peter Ware who did of course the picnic hanging rock ages ago which is an amazingly subtle horror film but I contend to still horror film he also did a movie that this one reminded me a lot of called the last wave

and I don't know either of you have you seen that one I have seen it yeah it's great that one deals a lot with sort of ritual ritualistic aboriginal kind of tribe magic and and like creation and and apocalypse mythology in like aboriginal mythology and so but it's in the real world again these

these things are coming into the real world and we see how nature starts sort of being affected and and freak storms and stuff like that and the way that those elements converge is the same thing here and you get that we're you're you're living in sort of a waking dream at some point you're never

quite sure where you are or what's going on and I really like that because it's a it's a little bit mystical and it can be hard to manage when you want to keep something kind of by the books you know realistic and creepy this gets a little surreal I like that a lot about it yeah and more

Australian horror police because honestly I find Australia as a concept terrifying so I think I mean it's dangerous just walking out your front door sometimes over there I feel like there's different animals there yeah I used to go to Australia all the time on business and

let me tell you just the there's horror in just the flight time to Australia but yeah once you get there you realize that you know there are a lot of there are a lot of insects snakes and spiders that don't exist in the Americas anywhere else really yeah it's it's a crazy place but you know

a south Australia where these guys are from you know it's it's it's kind of since the the polls are you know the it's the hemispheres are reversed there the the colder it is the farther down the farther south on the country it is so you know you melburn is like basically like San Francisco

type weather like a lot of outdoor dining and rain and you know cool breezes and stuff like that but the outback stuff which is sort of in the middle and to the east where Brisbane is is like it alternates between desert and just like Florida like super humid eat so yeah tough people live

there yeah yep so got off on tangent there but give us more of that so all right guys let's get into ratings here Nathan what do you think of this one again I really like that I thought it was very strong I feel like I might be coming in slightly low on it I this is a film I feel like

could jump up and I'm planning to see it again before the end of the year it is it if we were to make lists today it would definitely be on that list but I give this one an 8.5 that's a very strong movie I think it's a must must see horror film and if you can see it in the theaters I recommend

it you may want to just get someone heads up turn the sound down a little but yeah I had to tell them to turn the lights off so yeah Victor what about you I'd agree with the Nathan 100% 8.5 it might go up upon reviewing it because I was a little blown away by the movie and the volume of the

so that I might need to watch it at normal volume to really see if the script is as good as I think it is or maybe even better but but yeah I noticed that you guys said earlier oh actually Nathan you said at the top of the review the characterization is very well done and yeah I agree I would even

focus a little little further on that and just say the the backstory of each like the exposition of each character is very brilliantly revealed in very endless little pieces and you never forget any of it but you're never bored listening to somebody's story either and the performances are

electrifying they are memorable and I can't wait to see what Sophie Wilde does next. She's amazing she's poor or no yeah I'll go see it and and I can't wait to see what the Filipus do but yeah it's same same for me 8.5 yeah and I will be coming in as the high man as I feel like a lot of times

we'll be on here and I'm coming in with a nine saying this is definitely worth getting out to the theater to see I was you know it did really well so hopefully it hangs around in the theater for a little bit you've got some time to see it but absolutely I think so far this is the film that's

you know it's at the top of my list because it's done something interesting and new and it's not a sequel and it's not like retreading the same ideas and I love that and I love how like I said it's simple but it's elegant and about every aspect of its filmmaking and sometimes you've got to get

back to basics with horror or any genre really and I think they nail the basics so absolute recommend from me yeah absolutely cool well thanks guys all right so that'll wrap up our review of talk to me and it sounds like we're all urging you to go see it in the theaters yes yes absolutely

if you can okay so let's go ahead and get into a couple of horror reviews here and Nathan you and I were able to catch up with a 2023 release called resurrected do you want to set that one up for us sure I can this is and this is the director is Igor baranoff writer is Joe

Reckman it is a found footage film and it kind of you see that right off the bat although this is a found footage movie with an actual score a dramatic score so that took a little bit getting used to very basic storyline this is the way it's on IMDB is in a dystopian future the Vatican

knows how to resurrect people a priest discovers conspiracy behind the resurrections and a possible link to a series of murders there's a lot there that isn't immediately introduced into the film but very quickly we do have pieces of it and it's set up through introduction to a family

and we see a mother who's calling her son he's on his way back from a game I believe the father has picked them up and we are witnessing this little family moment there's some tension father dead seems to be these had a beer or two and now he's picked the the kid up and they're not

really paying attention to the road and then what we have is a tragedy that occurs and again this is right at the very start of the film and the way that that is captured through the found footage immediately sort of get you a little interested because they're they're telling a dramatic story

and they're using this technique as opposed to just sort of like as a crotch so suddenly it's like oh there's a there's a sort of good reasoning for why we see this happen and so we've got a tragedy that occurs that puts the puts a family in a situation where the church reaches out to them

because they want to try this technology they're going to literally resurrect someone from the dead and because we do realize this is slightly in the future and it's a future it looks pretty much like ours in a lot of ways but we can see things sort of there are there are things going on that

are a little bit different in our real world particularly when it starts to come to the church and now they've introduced the idea you can bring people back from the dead so we're five or six minutes into this film we've seen the found footage used in a very effective way there's one

scene where we see the camera literally flip and it's very disarming and makes your heart flip a little too when you see it and the style of the film is very interesting because then what we launch into is what would happen if the world altogether realized that the dead could come back

and not in the night of the living dead way but in a way where you could see them and talk to them and interact with them and then they have three or four minutes it's it's as cool as anything you'd seen a sci-fi film where we see how the world has changed and then we see actual

you know you're essentially at one point seeing like church services inside of virtual reality in in the virtual world and we see how the Vatican has gone forward and escalated this idea of people being resurrected and then there is suddenly there's

a mass murder and then we see how this mass murder is tied to what's been going on in the Vatican and some of those characters from the beginning that outset we go back to that father whose driving his son and he's brought into the story in a very interesting way and then it

becomes it does become this sort of uncover the conspiracy thriller shot through as a foul footage and when we get to the horror it's very it's very cool it's very interesting some of the acting isn't amazing it feels very but it's not terrible I think the best way to say it is the you've

got a lot of sort of I think relatively green actors they haven't done a lot before or done a lot in this particular venue sometimes the found footage sort of gimmick that they're using I think undercuts where they could have just made this a regular drama movie and I think we're

missing some of the beats there occasionally but overall this is a pretty engrossing movie I kind of really got into it I thought it was cool but the it's the story transpires it gets you get very creepy it's very interesting I was drawn into it I enjoyed the characters and again

enjoying that world that's built over top of ours and really asked that sort of existential question well what would happen if they could do that in one sense of the in one sense wouldn't that be the end of the Catholic Church as we would know it in you know in the purpose of the church

and we see things going on in that storyline that I thought were really interesting my bigger complaints with the film are just that ultimately it kind of boxes itself into a more traditional horror movie and so these moments when I wanted to go that direction and follow those really wild

threads I sometimes felt it just kind of it it reduced itself a little bit and went back to just being hey a pretty strong you know thriller but it's a pretty strong thriller I liked it a lot it totally surprised me I got to give a big shout out to to our friend Amanda who saw this

and then told me about it was like Nathan I think you're really gonna like this one and I immediately went and rented it because of the way she was describing it and found footage for me is a mixed bag you know that sometimes it works sometimes it does not and really in this case it works there

it they definitely don't they stray outside of the found footage can see but I think this is a pretty good movie yeah it's much more like a what they call screen life I guess something similar to like unfriended or yes that type of movie Nathan I'm trying to remember when you told us about

this I thought the makers of unfriended were involved in this but or some somehow someone was involved in maybe not but either way I think it has such an interesting idea with the you know the church being able to resurrect people that's interesting in its own right and it's such a I like

the mystery and the thriller elements that kind of go through I am a sucker for screen life found footage whatever you want to call them so I it's all automatically off to a good start when you you know preface your film that way although I will say it's I would much rather take this over

something like open windows if we're talking similar type movies but I I didn't necessarily see where this one was going I think it gets very conspiratorial it gets very much like the main characters kind of get down into a web or rabbit hole or something like that it's I like

the mystery like how it unfolds I will actually like the characters you know they're very human characters you know we don't get poor trails of people that are kind of a paragon of something or you know the perfect people they have a lot of issues and I like that and there's definitely some

I I just really like the interactions between the the father the priest in this one and the um woman that he ends up working with I think a lot of that's cool um I think the concept is cool it's got a great sci-fi mixed in with its horror so yeah I'd absolutely recommend this one

but um I think I'd give this one Nathan I'm probably higher than you are I think I'd come in and like an aid on this I really liked it yeah we are always like a 1.5 apart um right now a 7.5 but it's like a strong 7.5 I really I did like the film I do they're they're little bits here

there that I would have tightened up but the the other aspect of this is where you can see where this film's low budget you can see that they were working with um the resources that they had and then you see what they did with it and so in a way it almost flips and gives you more

admiration for it because hey you know what they they I've seen things done similarly to this with similar low budgets and there's a decent amount of imagination and effort going into this to make it work and um I like that it did deal with that idea at its heart you know that that idea of

what if they did start bringing people back to life and what would that mean overall you know it's not yeah it's an excuse to get to some horror imagery and there are ideas in this movie that remind me of lots of other films but done done in different ways and um you know and one of the movies I

was reminded of was um dead and buried from the 80s which is in itself a strange little movie and this is a strange little movie I think if you like film footage you're gonna want to see the movie and you uh I think it's it's a good one yeah and I think if you really think about where this

movie goes it gets pretty dark honestly but yeah I'd absolutely recommend this one seems like both of us would so okay so I know another movie we've all seen is subspecies five blood rise Victor do you want to set this one up for us would you be okay doing that yeah so subspecies

five it's uh the Roman numeral five the uh blood rise is the subtitle um and uh the IMDB premise is stolen by crusaders on the night of his birth he has no knowledge of his bloodline his mother is a demon his father is a vampire trained and exploited by a brotherhood of mystic

monks to slay all enemies of the church fate brings him back one night to the castle of his father armed with the monster slaying sword of lair tees to destroy the vampire bloodislas and reclaim a holy relic the bloodstone I think that's really all we need um even though that's

only halfway through that I know that's like this is the weirdly this movie has the longest plot entry I've ever read on IMDB and the least plot that's the thing you know that what happens Victor works a read and next and that's that's and there lies the crux of why we shouldn't repeat

there is some species series because it's essentially like repealing an epically long movie well it's you'll be happy to let me listeners you'll be happy to uh learn that the the director and writer Ted Nikolao is back uh I don't know if he was ever gone actually

no I think it was torn around for moon and some other capacity but I know he did the first two movies which I kind of liked and he did this one which I also liked so there's that but um yeah also good news uh it's available on physical media obviously it's always nice to patronize full

moon because they're you know they're indie um but it's also available on to be mm-hmm that was interesting yeah this was a screen box original and then I don't even maybe like a month later they're like it's on to be so it makes sense being a film that Bill Van Vagel

or a series that Bill Van Vagel's a fan of but yeah um yeah and you know also the main the main actor I think it actually sub species five has a lot of things that I like about horror movies that you know aren't necessarily my favorite movies but you know they there are a lot of tropes that

appear in this movie and you know if you're into vampires I think you might dig it uh but you know Andrews Hove is back as Radu Vlada Slaz and um you know have you guys noticed that they're like in the first two movies like he's got tons of old makeup on they've just been like

slowly taking a little bit off uh every movie and like in this movie he barely has any makeup on because he's he's been living hard and uh he still kind of looks the same but way older and uh he basically looks like Vego the Carpathian from Ghostbusters to the scourge of Carpathia

yeah he's uh he he looks great I mean he's still very physically mobile and all that he just has a really old looking face and it's perfect for the character he's totally aged into it anyway yeah it's you know what can I say it's vampires you know they have an eternal existence they

they they have these really dysfunctional relationships with other vampires where they kind of drift in and out of their lives um and uh all that is present in this movie really reminded me a lot of playing uh like an origin adventure for an old tabletop role playing game called vampire

I used to play um where your character yeah vampire the masquerade where you know you have like oh my character is a you know he's a crusader and you know he meets a vampire and gets turned to do a vampire and and then his vampiric existence starts and that's kind of what this movie is like

and uh I also really like what they did with music in the vampire world I don't know if I want to reveal too much about it but um I thought that was a cool touch but uh yeah what did you guys think yeah and we should say I think Denise Duff here as well as series veteran returning to

a new character in this movie but yeah Victor I'm of two minds on this one because I did like some things in this movie I liked it that I really liked when the brother and sister characters came into play and it's kind of you know this is what surprised me the most is I was kind of

shocked or devastated about thinking about something in a subspecies movie and I had seen you know three prior to this one when something happens to these brother and sister they have different ways of dealing with it and both are equally kind of disturbing to think about maybe something

you don't necessarily think about with vampire movies but then there's like you know just voice over throughout the entire movie from Radoo and it parts this movie is just a slog and it just is so slow at points and I honestly I gotta tell you I wasn't that invested until those two characters came

into it and then there's some cool stuff near the end I do like that and how they weave that in but yeah I'm kind of mixed honestly on subspecies five cool interesting how about you Nathan what do you think of this latest entry from full moon yeah and and to answer the question if Ted

Nenglai was was ever really gone subspecies five is one of six movies that he made in 2023 these listed as director I will mention that a couple of these have titles like the carnage collection and tales of the fantastic and we all know that full moon and Charles Bann in particular

are not opposed to releasing clip shows so really those other movies Ted Dickel I may have directed that stuff six years ago I'm not sure but he did do terror vision from back in the uh the he did he did do terror and he did he did the some of the original subspecies movies

the so new full moon which is to say stuff made me in the last 10 years or so maybe even longer than that I don't quite enjoyed as much certainly as much as the stuff and I've been watching a lot of the older stuff recently like the movies that that band made when he was with Empire and then

the early days of full moon that taken to account stuff because of we've gone through the 90s tray you know the puppet masters and the original subspecies movies and the demonic toys and you know those various movies and a lot of these weird little movies like Dr. Morton the new full moon

feels even cheaper than the the the old full moon you know and I feel like they're trying to make movies literally sometimes with no money whatsoever and I don't think subspecies five looks better than a lot of their surroundings stuff I mean bills head me watch this stuff like wee jis

hallowed weed and stuff like that so not the higher ash law but they just look cheap I'm thinking of uh even the the full moon I was involved in that remake right of um was a castle freak recently and they've uh I just don't really like the look of the movies that much they do

look really cheap the one thing that subspecies still is going for it is because there's original films they just kind of went out and you know Charles band owns a castle so he can film in that castle whatever he wants to uh and that element does add something because you're really in a castle and

so much of the other stuff is on sale stages so there was that kind of really dark European field in the original subspecies movies I don't feel it as much in this one so the ambiance that worked from he's gone a little bit I agree with you try the the voiceover there was this kind of desire that

that uh Rodu's got to be at the heart of the series and I guess he is but I think they think people are more invested in this character than they really are even after four movies and he doesn't necessarily have to be the absolute you know main character or be omnipresent at all times

and everything is going on in the movie I think the movie keeps getting in its own way and momentum is a big problem but I thought momentum is probably all the subspecies movies because they're either two minds one is it's a chase scene for like the entire film like the species do

or it's a little bit more rambling like this and I feel like there were there were a couple of stumbles in the underworld series and things like that where they like the Dracula um untold you know from a few years ago like those sorts of movies seem to be the kind of film that this is

copying and it just didn't ever grab me dramatically while at the same time I thought there was some interesting ideas like the vampire world they wanted to present to me was interesting I just really wish that maybe full moon could think about if you've got a title like sub species five and

it's one of your you know banner titles that you have left in terms of a series maybe don't make 10 movies this year maybe make one movie with the budget of the other 10 yeah yeah oh so it'd be made for a hundred thousand dollars instead of a thousand right but did that really this movie

wants to be a little ambitious don't you think like in it's storytelling and it doesn't get there because it just doesn't quite have the resources behind it yeah and I think you bring up an interesting point because my favorite thing about the original is that Eastern European

feel to it and it just feels like this small backwards town where you know vampires running rampant and I think they even have like parades and festivals and you lose a lot of that here it's interesting going for a prequel and it's probably pretty smart thinking like you know what do you even do

after all that time from them sub species four but yeah like yeah I think there's some good parts but yeah didn't didn't all work for me for sure anything else to say on this one guys yeah no I I think I liked it a little more than you guys did because maybe just you know more time has passed

before I've seen a vampire movie and I was like yay vampires but um yeah I guess the only thing I wanted to say is yeah any future Rama fans out there remember that episode where the professor invents the thing longer yeah Rado is the original thing longer and it's memorable

yeah my rating just went up a half a star no um myself Victor I've someone who has watched you know this is my fourth subspecies movie in the past probably like eight months so um I'm a little overloaded on subspecies right now but if I were to give this an rating I'd probably

come in around a six I think it's a middle of the road movie I like some things I really didn't like some other things but I'd say it's still probably worth checking out if you're into subspecies but maybe not for people who have watched the subspecies movies if you don't like any of the subspecies

movies this definitely won't do anything for you but you know I agree with that I guess I'd probably give it a seven and a recommendation to rent I'm gonna go with six as well um there I think there are as someone who does enjoy the subspecies movies I think you can add tack a little bit extra on

for people who are into the series already you're likely to like this one as well because in some ways it's better than some of the the more recent ones I think it's actually better movie than part three and part four but um I think that you know overall it's a six and it's still it's just hampered a little bit by that filmmaking because I think what's frustrating about full moon is that they show that they have ideas and they have imagination and they even have some skill I mean these guys

some of these guys have been making movies for a long time and some of those older movies where they had less of a budget maybe and and had to do a lot more on the on the super cheap they they come off with baby being a little bit more charming and I think that you can see some of the charm coming

through with some species five and then you kind of it hits a wall and you're like oh now I'm watching I'm watching full moon and the pacing has always been an issue for them their movies are usually very short and they're still oddly paced so fix the pacing and maybe fix some of the

the not just the production values but even the direction of of those scenes like there are whole scenes in this film that feel like a soap opera in the sense that they don't feel particularly cinematic they sort of just show you something and then you have moments that are like oh that was

kind of cool and I wouldn't have thought of that and that looked pretty neat but they're still operating off of like what direct video was and like 1995 I'd like to see them expand their their toolkit a little yeah that's fair all right well that's a wrap on subspecies five

anything else you guys I'm gonna talk about tonight as far as 2023 releases or anything else where no yeah I think I think that's uh I'll do it unless you guys want to talk back man real quick I don't know about me oh yeah and and I wouldn't mind doing that and also um there's a there is a new

animated series that premiered on Netflix recently called song 100 yeah look at list of the dead yeah yeah it's it's a comedy I mean it's a horror comedy it's an absurdist comedy but it's you know it's anime and I think the first five episodes are out and they're pretty good what's the what

is the um sub subtitle of the list of the dead and there's also a live action one don't um the live action one looks like a standard live action anime um adaptation I haven't watched either yet but I've seen the previews for them and yeah the zom 100 the the anime looks pretty cool

you say it looks like your average uh add up you know anime adaptation of the live actions that mean it looks like it was all shot through on a snapchat filter basically yeah if you've seen the trailer for the new one piece movie you probably can pick up the vibe for any of them so

yeah yeah the uh and I'm talking not not necessarily like the death note ones but the um the more ones that are starring you know Japanese um pop stars yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah got you um um well I started watching one episode of that and we was watching my son was watching it's like

oh what are you watching and then we ran into some uh zombie nudity and we turned it off of himself yeah yeah it's true adults um yeah we really he was silly too yeah yeah there was the whatever the rating was or someone had said oh yeah this is fine and John was watching so it

goes pretty good and then we hit that and I'm like okay yeah well I'm we're gonna table this and I'm gonna go watch this and I'll come back in the channel yeah the only thing I'd like to add I guess is that if you watch the first episode and you like that you'll probably like the whole series

because it gets slightly better than the first but never much better so I think that's a good gauge you only have to commit 30 minutes and um you'll know if you're a fan of the series or not yeah is that running for like a standard season length victor or is that like a uh probably

are they releasing episodically then it seems like maybe weekly yeah I think there's around 10 episodes planned okay I wasn't sure if it was gonna be a standard season or if it's like the Netflix sometimes like oh here's eight episodes and wait a couple of years and we'll have some more

yeah they do that's no I I think I don't know what the deal is I don't know if there's if there you know if it's an if it's an actual Netflix commissioned show yeah and they're just you know they're working their butts off in Japan doing episode six right now or if they're just bringing

that must be the reason why they're bringing in peace meal because that's usually not the Netflix way well Netflix tried this and recently I think they've gone to that I think they're just acquiring these shows um because they are airing in Japan uh first one their normal broadcast but I think

I don't know maybe a couple years ago at this point they started trying that with the um weekly uh releases of episodes I know they did that with something called blue period and another one called uh coming can't communicate so I think they've been dabbling in that with their anime content

cool yeah yeah definitely thanks for bringing that up like driving got to a yet and sounds like Nathan only got to a little bit of it but uh it's definitely something for horror fans it was interesting when I saw it was fun in the same way that like zombie land is fun but it even a little

more different a little more idiosyncratic than that yeah it's it's almost like it's a horror show but the character doesn't treat it seriously like the main character doesn't seriously it's like one of those toilet-tune characters he's actually kind of happy that the end of the world is happening

because like before this was just like kind of a husk anyway so why not outrun zombies instead of work a crap job yeah and I do like that idea that like he comes alive when everyone else dies cool yeah cool well that's zom 100 so check that one out um and then we'll go ahead and go into a

review here of another movie we've all seen and that is uh Batman the Doom that came to Gotham um I'll go ahead and set this up and then kick it over to you guys this is in the DC animated universe so they have their whole wide array now of these animated movies that DC comics has put

together and honestly a lot of them are really good yeah and they're usually pretty pretty good linked wise as well but in this one in particular we have explorer Bruce Wayne accidentally unleashes an ancient evil and returns to Gotham after being away for two decades there Batman

battles love crafty and supernatural forces and encounters allies and enemies and I'm not going to read the specific allies and enemies but yeah this one's interesting this is a an alternate reality kind of take on Gotham and definitely falls in that love crafty and but Victor what were

your thoughts on the Doom that came to Gotham yeah if if you are a younger viewer and you are curious about hp lovecraft I think this especially if you're in a Batman like this is a really cool way to get into it like they were like growing up like there were like there was like a single

episode of the real ghost busters that dealt with lovecraftian monsters this is like that except it's you know a little better in quality but yeah it's it's a typical elseworld's adventure so just realize that a lot of the characters that you love in the bat like mainstays in the Batman

universe could die or change into something completely different or you know turn out to be totally different than they are in the the mainstream story but that said I am kind of I liked a lot of the things in it there I there's a few homages to lovecraft stories in it the most

obvious ones are there's a tie into at the mountains of madness which is about an expedition in the in one of the one of the poles that goes horribly wrong and the call of cthulhu of course is most famous story where you know the nephew of this dude starts putting together all the clippings

his uncle had put together following this weird cult and he is blessed with figuring out what his uncle could never find unfortunately for him but yeah those elements are there I thought the the it's said in the jazz age in Gotham and the gadgets in the bat suit are awesome for for that time

that was probably one of my favorite bits where I was like oh neat but the flip side of that is I don't know if they aside from those kind of cyber I guess I guess I'd seem steam punk era gadgets I don't know if I'm using the the era correctly there but if the flip side of that is there's no

other reason for this narrative to be in the 1920s other than the lovecraft high in and the cool gadgets so I think they may have missed an opportunity there a little bit but it's mostly exciting just you know I would just go in with checking your bat fandom at the door

but the you know the character is basically driven by the same things and you know you'll probably enjoy the story but yeah he's dealing with some very cosmic level threats in this one so yeah I I guess I recommend it it was fun yeah I would say victory to your point with the characters thing

it's pretty interesting the cult and everything that he's delving into and then at some point a certain name is brought up or certain characters brought up and then you're like oh so I see where this this whole thing's going right it gets very it's kind of Batman paint by numbers at

that point because it all kind of fits in the normal Batman lore but I will say I love the character of a green arrow in this one I do like him oh yeah he goes through some some stuff in this one but I really did like that turn but Nathan what do you think of this one so I like this and I actually

read the book to the original book that Mike McNola worked on the graphic novel which starts right off with that mountains of madness reverence and ties of course you've got a story that involves those giant like Arctic like monstrous penguins right yes this story and Batman happens to have

a character modeled after the penguin so they go for it right at the beginning of that book and so this is largely faithful to that but think the place plays into these they they they don't do something because it might be just a little too weird or a little too arc for maybe a more

average like viewer I wish they had just done it you know some of the changes I art as good or is interesting we've we've had a lot of that recently where there's like what's the good reason for having it set in the 20s or whatever and I think really the reason is just what you said Victor

it's just to give it that sort of lovecraft on me and I also think there's something uh to be said when you have to put Batman in this scenario where there's maybe a greater sense of superstition or you know the world is not as technologically caught up and so these fears

these lovecrafted fears seem even somehow even more and domitable and even harder to overcome and I think that kind of works for this I think it's mostly just for the the Gothic ambiance it's you know got now Gotham has that anyway but I thought it was fun that they did that I thought that

I like those elseworld stories to me if you're going to show me something and it disregardes most of of the Batman I already know well that's good because I already know the other Batman and so I like having I um I like it when they kind of take Batman and throw him into these snares and

actually I think this is a more successful movie than the one they the Gotham by Gasla yes I absolutely dramatically better and in fact I think this is probably one of the better uh and they're really usually pretty strong but um in the more recent uh Batman animated

output this is a pretty good I think this is one of the better ones yeah uh the I kind of wish that the animated DC movies were live DC movies uh there are a lot of really good ones like at the Deathstroke one I really liked the Dark Knight returns part one and part two are really good oh yeah

those were awesome yeah and I'll say this too about these I think what I would rather have is actually don't want them to be the live action ones I would like them to see them have the studio budgets maybe um but let them still be animated because I dig the animation like some very few of

them have looked cheap and that really goes all the way back to Batman the animated series when they did and I know Victor you were on Phantom Gouns and we reviewed the mask of the Phantasm yeah that's one of the best Batman movies there's ever made in my opinion and it's beautiful to look

at and I wouldn't want it in live action yeah right and it's funny it the Sam Lou is one of the the guy who directs most of these and uh at the end of the year every year when I look on letterbox for my top directors Sam Lou is always there so but um yeah I think if you haven't checked out

the stuff um I wouldn't don't know if I'd call many of them horror maybe the Justice League Dark movies yeah that second one gets pretty gnarly um apocalypse but apocalypse war but yeah I think this is a solid entry I wanted a little bit more maybe for it to go a little further but

I'd probably give this one a seven if I had to give it a rating yeah I I think I'd be more like a 6.5 but yeah I think that's that's the right that's the right expectation about you Nathan a seven I think I would have had it maybe even had some of that Mike McMillah's styleings to it I might

have liked it even more it might have been yes a little bit more you know it just would have been a little bit more its own thing it would have been a little bit more distinctive uh but I that's said I do like it a lot it's fun it's the the voice work on these is always pretty good uh I like

what they're doing with it and it was fun to just take a joint if you're gonna have the latitude that's the thing that these movies have the latitude to do something weird like a story like the dude and the game the Gotham you're not gonna see DC even though they probably should put their money

behind these sorts of stories are gonna do one this level the trick is most where most of the good stuff is is in these so now someone let's get to Manamade it swamp thing we did yeah and full blown yeah yeah I was very excited for him to show up in um both of the justice like dark movies but I do

I would like a full one swamp thing and I love that he was in um injustice to the video game as well oh cool but yeah one last thing for horror fans here is Jeffrey Combs actually has a brief performance as Kirk Langstrom oh yeah in this one so it was cool hearing that for no

your voice but yes I love that shake that he gets in his voice when his character is going mad it's perfect yep okay and that concludes horror movie podcast episode two twenty three in the future episodes probably won't be quite as long we were compiling a lot of pieces that we

recorded prior to this and again as we get on a more regular schedule gig-spect episodes aren't five hours but we still plan to give you a lot of good content as we close out I just want to remind everyone that you can find us over on Facebook and hard movie podcasts we have a we're gonna use

that group page to do things like set up more at your mercy episodes and some other fun stuff particularly for the rest of the month of October and for November and be sure to check out the podcast for all of our other hosts as well includes tray wet stones screaming through the ages podcast

and Matt Rawlings and Jackson Rawlings father and son watch horror podcast and of course you can find me at fan of galaxy podcast where I co-host with Bill Van Vagel and tray and victor are on there often as well as is Dave Becker you can find new episodes of that podcast starting up again

this month the final thing I want to mention and I'll put a link in the show notes is regarding victor Rodriguez he got an opportunity to be interviewed by the horridors of america that interview is available over on his website I've put the link specifically in the show notes under a heading

related to the interview so you can check out and find it there be sure again to check out his podcast which is inside the sound of fear related to his anthology book of short stories the sound of fear again those links will be available in the show notes and until next time this is horror movie podcast where we're dead serious about horror movies