Hello everyone. And welcome to today's episode of hope through grief. I'm one of your cohost, Steve Smelski, and I'm here with my good friend and cohost Marshall Adler.
Hello, everybody. Hope you're doing well today.
So for today's episode, we actually have a very special guest that's joined us today, Mr. Howard Dayton. Mr. Dayton was the co founder and chairman of Crown Financial Ministries from 2000 to 2007. And at the time they were the largest financial ministry in the world. During Mr. Dayton's time at CEO of the ministry, they taught more than 50 million people in 88 countries, God's way of handling money and operating a business.
In 2009, Mr. Dayton founded a new ministry called Compass Finances God's way serving as CEO and full time volunteer. Mr. Davis recently stepped down as CEO and he's now serving as chairman of the board. He's hosted three different radio shows. He's the author of eight books in six small group studies, one Bible, three audio books, and two DVD series. I had the opportunity of meeting Mr. Dayton about six years ago, right after Jordan passed. And, um, he was very helpful to me. Welcome Howard.
Thank you very much, Steve. Great to be with you and Marshall,
So I thought maybe we would just start out a little bit and let you start with sharing your history. You have had a journey of grief, but maybe you could give us a little background and then we can get into that portion.
Sure thing. I'm graduated from the Hotel School at Cornell spent two and a half years as a Naval officer, one year in Vietnam then returned to my home state of Florida. Started my business career in Orlando, uh, in 1971, two major things happen. I married and the second thing was that through a small group of guys, Uh, I was introduced to Christ as personal savior.
One of those men became my business partner, a fellow named Jim Zenith challenged me to study of all things, the Bible to find out what it said about money. We discovered there were 2,350 versus dealing with money. Completely changed my life felt God was calling me to become involved in teaching others that subject, uh, we, uh, have had two major grief experiences in my life. First was a little boy named Andrew. We were in the process of adopting him.
All three of our children are adopted as newborns, had him for a few months, took him to a neurologist because we figured something was wrong with him. And bottom line his mom had been on narcotics and he had only a fraction of his brain, just his STEM, uh, lived till he was 11. That was a, an emotionally challenging time for us as a family. Fortunately, the Lord brought, uh, the birth mom's mom and dad in our path didn't know him before then. They only lived three miles from us.
They loved him. So they actually raised him. We were babysitters, which was a good thing because it had been so challenging. He was becoming hydrocephalic. We didn't realize that at all kind of operations. And my wife got a phone call for her one time and she didn't know she was in so we knew that just emotionally and physically. Bev was at the end of her rope and really we needed relief. And God brought that in the form of this wonderful couple.
About, uh, let's see, probably eight years ago, eight years ago, we discovered that she had breast cancer, double mastectomy. We learned a year later that it had metastasized to her bones, which is a very, uh, painful type of cancer. I was her caregiver. And I would describe this then in our 26 years of marriage, it was the most difficult time, obviously, but in many ways it was the sweetest time in our marriage.
And I had read a book called Trusting God and I come from a faith perspective and it really dealt with crises. You know, what's, what's God doing in the middle of a, of a crisis. And this was before we realized that it spread to her bones and Icame away from reading that book, realizing that God loves us like crazy.
That, um, he's sovereign, he's in control of everything large and small and the planet and that because of his deep love for us, there will be times where we go through challenging times. And, uh, in the old Testament, there is a book of Job and poor, old Job got whacked, uh, beat up to beat the band. And was asking God why, and God never answered him, but he did reveal more of who he was, who God was.
So the bottom line on the book was that when we are going through a difficult time, as hard as it is, it's for our ultimate benefit and for God's glory. So I never asked the question why during that, uh, that time and after she went home, As you well know Steve, cause we lived in the same neighborhood. I know I'd walk every morning, play Christian music. You know, cry my heart out and did that for about a year. And then, uh, through a mutual friend, the Lord brought Lynne into my life.
She's an amazing person. Hadn't seen her in 30 years. We went through, I mentor one guy, one young man a year. Ask her, if she wanted me to mentor her, she said yes, because really I didn't want to, I mean, I remember her as a beautiful woman. But I didn't want, I wanted to make sure that I could finish well and listen to her heart, find out who she was. And then finally met her eight weeks later. And you and I talked about this a little bit earlier, Steve, I can remember.
Because here I had this history of listening to music and crying my heart out every day on my walk. And, uh, there was a time after, uh, we had spent, uh, two times together where, you know, I cried my heart out, uh, as usual on my Walkman, it was different. And this time I felt the Lord was saying to my heart, your days are morning are over. I've got joy for you in the future.
And, uh, bottom line, we were married, you know, 11 months ago and it's been just joyful every single day since that time. And I do think it is perfectly acceptable and legitimate from God's perspective for us to grieve and mourn. But there's a, there's a time for that. And then there's a time. To resume life, if you will. And I'm very thankful for the mourning experience. And I'm very, very thankful for the joy experience that, that we're, that we have now.
And I would say this too, when, you know, for those of your audience who are caregivers, one of the most helpful things for me, was to have purpose. And my purpose was I, I was writing, um, a small group study called Charting your Legacy. And in that study, one of the things that really captured me was how important it is to finish our lives well, and it's, um, fella did a study. There are 2,930 individuals mentioned in, in the Bible.
Of those, we only know enough of a hundred to know if they finished well or not .Of those hundred only 1/3 finished well, most didn't finish well in the latter part of their lives. And there's a decision-making theory ,if you will, that I think is right on the nose and that begin whatever you're working on with the end in mind. And for me, I realized that the end in mind for me, is when I do pass away and I finally am face to face with the Lord himself.
Am I going to hear the words well done good and faithful servant. Or am I going to hear something else which will be a lot more painful. And so for me, I would say this, the, my, my life is characterized by a desire to finish well. And, um, I'm blessed beyond description to have Lynn Dayton in my life and as my dear wife and partner in life. And that's one of the focuses of our life and encouraging one another to do those things who allow us to finish well, all, all from God's point of view.
But that's the story,
Howard that's interesting. Let me ask you a question, our listeners know this, but I want to just give some information. We mentioned before the show started that my son, Matt, it was 32 years old, passed away on July 22nd, 2018.
Yes
And when we were at the funeral home, picking out his headstone, I got the call that my mother passed away.
Wow
So my mother and my son passed away within 24 hours.
Wow.
And we had to go to the grave site. We just bought the plot for Matt, which was next to my father. My father passed away in 2012. He lived to 91. He had Alzheimer's, which was a different grief journey. But, my mother and my son passing away within 24 hours from a grief standpoint was so different because my mother was 93. My son was 32. My mother was in hospice completely expected that she was going to pass away. In fact, Matt was home from San Diego.
And we had a wonderful time within saying goodbye to my mother, we didn't know, we were saying goodbye to him. Cause it was the last time we ever saw him. He flew back to San Diego, we had a work and then we were waiting for him to come back for the funeral of my mother. And he never made it. He died two days before she did.
Wow.
So the grief journey that I've been on, I'm interested in because I will tell you. The loss of a child, which you've also experienced is like, for me, it was just completely different than the loss of a mother.
Yes
And I will tell you it's been over two years and my mother was the greatest mother in the world. Like, I'll just tell you like I'm Jewish and my mother was not only a Jewish mother. She was a. Nurse at Bellevue Hospital in New York City, which one of the great hospitals in the world. So I tell everybody well, before the pandemic.
I was told every day in my life to wash my hands because my mother, but my entire life I've been told to wash my hand well before the pandemic so that my mother was not just a Jewish mother, she was a nurse. So she was always like that. And she was very close with Matt. But then what also happened is my best friend of 50 years from Buffalo, New York. So I know you went to Cornell very close to Cornell also, who was very close with my son, Matt, and very close with my parents.
I knew him since I was 12 years old. He passed away. So I had my son, my mother, and my best friend of 50 years all pass away. And what we did is the Jewish religion on the one year anniversary of somebody's passing, you do, what's called a Yard Side Candle. It's a Memorial candle that you light and it goes for 24 hours in the Jewish religion that the day starts at sundown.
Yes
The day before we went to Israel and we were at the beach on the Mediterranean Sea and Tel-Aviv widen this Yard Side Candle for Matt, which was beautiful, but it was also, we couldn't believe it that we were lighting this for our son and a day or two before we were in Jerusalem at The Wailing Wall, the Western Wall. And I put prayer notes for my father, my mother, my son, Matt, and my friend, Ted from Buffalo. And I put them all together because the four of them loved each other.
And putting that into the, The Wailing Wall just sort of gave me some contentment in the sense that I knew that people before me for thousands of years had come here to grieve people that they loved. And my father of 91 years, my mother is 93 years. My friend Ted lived 62 years. My son Matt lived 32 years. So we have a great, you know, a gradation there. But looking at this wall, going back thousands years, you realize it's all a short time. No matter how long any of us live...
that's right.
Comparatively looks long my father and my mother, but in the millenniums that people go to the Western Wall is a short time. So my question to you is how has your journey been different with the loss of a child and the loss of a wife? Because for me, I I've had three different losses within a short period of time, a son, a mother, and a best friend. And they've all been different, but I just know my grief journey would have been so different for each one of them.
If they didn't come in such short duration right next to each other. And it's been it's been difficult for me to grieve properly for each one of those people that I loved.
Yeah. I think with, uh, Andrew, uh, the little boy who, um, Really just had the fraction of his brain. Course we grieved for him when he passed away, but it was different in that, you know, he, he couldn't communicate with us and, you know, we, we could love him, touch him I mean, uh, do everything we could to make his life as comfortable as possible. But it was different, you know. Obviously with your wife, you have a deeper relationship, you communicate with each other.
You've, you know, 46 years you've gone through wars and rumors of wars together, so to speak. And, uh, so that was, you know, much, much different, uh, in that respect. I think it's when, when it's your mate going back to Adam and Eve, the two become one, that's a special relationship that can't be replaced. By any other relationship.
And for me, you know, given my faith, I'm completely convinced that I'm going to see her again, face to face and because she had a close relationship where the Lord is as well as, as my relationship with the Lord and same true with my, my second wife, she has a very intimate relationship where the Lord and the faith element. I think, which I know was huge.
At least for me in dealing with those losses, my mom was 95 when she went home, my dad was 81, with a heart attack and I admire and, and still miss them for sure. But I like the idea of The Wailing Wall and the history Marshall, because there's no substitute for proper perspective. And realizing that life is short, eternity is long and what we do during this short lifetime of ours can matter forever through the people that we touch.
It's interesting because I was surprised that I did get a sense of contentment putting those prayer notes into The Wailing Wall, because I just realized that 2000 years in the future, somebody could have lost a son and put the print out for them, the same place I'm putting print out for, for Matt. And I will be long gone and forgotten, but it's all part of the continuum of the human experience. And what I looked at was my mother, my father, my son met my friend Ted.
We're all for the funniest people you'd ever want to meet, they all had wonderful sense of humor and they did nothing but live lives of purpose, kindness, and humor. And I really felt that. They would all say you realize that everybody comes to this Wailing Wall. They're wailing because they're grieving and we're all going to be here sometime or the other along the human journey. So make the most of the time you're actually on this planet, whatever that time is.
That's right
And that gave me the sense of peace.
Yeah. I, I don't think we can, um, overestimate how important it is to have perspective making our life count having a clear purpose. I've struggled with what is my purpose from time to time in my life, not, not the last 45 years, but from time to time as a younger person. And I would just encourage folks, to spend time and pray and ask for clarity on what your purpose is.
It may be clear if you're a, if you're a mom with children and you're in the middle of raising them, you've got pretty clear purpose, but what is it in the long haul that the Lord is calling you to do?
You mentioned the, the why question? I know Steve and I have talked about that many times, both on air and off air. And I'll just tell you a quick story, then I'll turn over to Steve for a second. So I don't want to dominate your time here, but my, my mother I've told the story before my mother, after she lost her second child. She asked my father's father.
The why question and what happened is all my grandparents were immigrants and my father's father, he came from what was then the Austrian Hungarian empire. So you never knew exactly where it was because the borders kept on changing, but he told my mother something that I never really understood till after Matt passed. And what he said is that losing two children was a tragedy, but it was your tragedy. It would be no more or less a tragedy.
If the next door neighbor had lost two children, it wouldn't be your traged but a tragedy? And what my grandfather told my mother was that. What makes you think that you are going to be so special that you're going to be exempt from grief in this journey of life? He goes, you're not, nobody is. And my mother grieved the loss of those two children the day she died because I'm living on her death bed. She was telling me about them, but it actually helped her hearing my grandfather say those words.
Cause I think it's sort of similar to what you're saying. She knew she had to get into the game of life, be the best person she could be. And then my parents always told me to live is for the living, do the best you can do here on this planet for as long as you can, which it sounds exactly the way you've led you've lived your life is what you've done.
And my parents in their own way, I think took my grandfather's statements that at first seemed sort of, um, harsh to tell somebody that, but my mother said it was the best thing for her to hear because it sort of got her back into realizing I've got to live my life as a tribute to my lost, loved ones. And Steven I've talked about that all the time. That's why I'm doing this show to try to continue the good work that my son Matt couldn't do anymore cause he's not here.
And I feel like it's my obligation to live the rest of my life for as long as I'm on this planet is a tribute to him. And it sounds like you've done that absolutely with your life. And I think that's a real important lesson for all of us because as we all know either you're going to live and the people that you love are going to pass and you're going to grieve them or else you're going to pass and people you love are going to grieve you. So grief is just part of the human experience.
Well said,
Howard, I wanted to let everybody know how much you helped me after Jordan passed. I used to tell people that I had this friend that we talked, but we always taught before breakfast. And they're like, what? It's like Howard would walk around the Lake here in our development and I would run and ruin. We met each other. We'd walk together and talk for quite a while. And you really helped me at the beginning. And I can't thank you enough for that.
I also got to walk with you as you were going through your journey. Do you think anybody ever said anything to you that really helped you with that journey? Or is there anything you can say or heard that that really helped?
My best friend is, um, an attorney Marshall. His name is Tim Mainer and I'll never forget Tim and I, when I really learned what, uh, the challenges that uh, we were facing with Andrew and I walked down Park Avenue in Winter Park one evening. And we still talk about that time. And I think having a close friend that cares about you, that, you know, you know, you just know he, he or she loves you, is really helpful.
They don't have to say some something brilliant that solves the problem, but just for them to be there during that time. And, um, you know, my friend, Tim and I talked or communicated almost every day for the past, probably 40 years. And, um, uh, you know, that's a priceless friendship that, we've both gone through good times and challenging times heartache, and it just helps a lot to have that kind of a friend that in your life.
And, and, uh, I do anything I could to nurture that or encourage everybody to nurture that kind of a friendship. And of course your spouse is absolutely key. I mean, you've, you've lived through that, Steve I'm sure Marshall has to having a, you know, a spouse that you're going through it together.
You can support and encourage one another, uh, even in the midst of the grief journey, you know, I don't believe we're, we've been made to be alone and to have those people in your life that care for you, that you care for is really a gift. It's just a, it's just a gift.
I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. I was thinking about some of our discussions and the part I remember was you were actually interested in what was going on with me. It wasn't so much what you said, just that you took the time. And for that I was appreciative and it helped a lot.
It was a dear time for me to be with you, for sure, miss it.
So do I. You had mentioned you started grieving ahead of time with above, and that was actually a fairly long journey compared to what Marshall and I have experienced. Could you tell us a little bit about from beginning? Cause at one point it's like, it's hard to actually hear what the diagnosis is, right? But then you, you have no idea what the journey is.
No it's um, and you have ups and downs, times of encouragement, times of discouragement along the journey. Uh, we were blessed to have a great oncologist who was both tender and very direct. So there was no, and he took us as much of the mystery out of where we were headed as possible, but we really appreciated that because, you know, we clearly a sense that, uh, Dr about cared for us. So that really was, um, again, gift you have times of hope, then you have times where those hopes are dashed.
So it's not, it's certainly not a linear experience. But, you know, I knew from the research I'd done that, you know, life expectancy was probably five years for bone cancer and that really there wasn't a quote unquote cure. And our oncologist was so kind in that he was very aware, of course he was more than aware that we were aware of that, but he, he focused on pain management, which we were very very grateful for.
And, um, as I said, for us as a couple, it was by far the sweetest time because you you're, you're pretty undistracted, uh, when you're, uh, going through the middle of that. And, um, you just get to know each other at an entirely different level, uh, depth, uh, as you did before.
So it's kind of the journey together, even though....
The journey together and it's a , um, retrospect, I'm thankful for the journey because I'm definitely, I tell my wife, my new wife, Lynn she's getting the improved model. You know, she's definitely getting a better, better husband than you know, I was 30 years ago. No. Then we've laughed about that, you know, it's and, and it's, it's interesting.
It's just not a, you know, a health challenge or death where you grief but there are a lot of things we grieve over, whether it's the death of a marriage through divorce, or, I mean, there are a lot of things that are out there. And one thing I would say it's, um, uh, for a lot of people some gifted counselor is really a huge asset. Lynn has a very gifted counselor who is, just dynamite and, uh, that can be very helpful in the grieving process.
Yeah. That's a great point. So as we were talking and I think I'm most interested in your topic of finishing well and what that means to you. There's actually multiple thoughts behind that right? It's just not because it covers a lot of different things.
But as an individual, going through grief, can our focus on that certainly help us through the grief journey as well as define what we do and what would become after, because Marshall and I have agreed were when you were talking, you got the better version of Howard. We're not the same either.
Yeah, I really believe that grieving as Marshall said so eloquently as part of the human experience and difficult times, challenging times ,grieving times really are more than allowed by the Lord to shape us into the people that he wants us to be, to shape us into people who can relate to others, you know, in a much deeper level, because we've been there and done that.
And as painful as the hard times are, if we put on a hat, let's put on the servant hat, you know, how can I serve the people around me? I'm much better at doing that than I ever was before have, um, you know, much closer relationship with the Lord because of those experiences. And I really wouldn't trade that for anything.
Thank you for sharing that. I was surprised to find out as we started through our journey of grief and we found grief share, we did counseling. I was actually very surprised at how much it helps to help others. It helps you as much as what they receive. Yet, you've spent the last 40 or 50 years doing that right?
Well, that's why I got a smile on my face. You know, it's been a joy. I've loved doing it. You know, God put us in a financial position where haven't had to have a salary or any book royalties or anything like that since 85. It's just been priceless joy to be called to do this. And I'm not saying everybody should be in a financial position where they're free to do it, but for us it's, it's just been a blessing.
Do you remember any of the people that you've met during that journey that stand out to you?
A lot of them, yeah. I mean, its you know, during the coronavirus, they, one of the things I've encouraged people to do, I did have God visited me in 1977. I know it's a little spooky to say that, but I found myself prostrate on the kitchen floor, crying my heart out at Thanksgiving for Christ died for me on the cross. And he showed me that, uh, during my lifetime, we would have a very, very difficult financial situation in our country.
Didn't show me when didn't show me how it manifests itself, but that motivated me every single day. Since that time to try to teach as many people as possible, the biblical, point of view of our resources or our stuff. And in the hopes that they would apply the principles of generosity, of getting completely out of debt, of being consistent on the saving side to their lives, so that when that occurred, they and their family would be financially stable.
And hopefully they'd have enough to help those who weren't in a financially stable place .And so I've had a lot of calls over the last few months they had.... Is this it?
That was going thorugh of mind of is this is?
That's right and I all I can say is the Lord hasn't visited me. Like he did the first time to affirm that this is it. But it is interesting to see that it happened so quickly and globally, and um, has definitely hurt a lot of people financially no question about it. So, you know, I'm just continuing to encourage as many people as I can to apply these principles to your financial life.
Howard, it's interesting because my father was born 1921. So he was a child of the depression. He was bar mitzvah'd in 1934, which if, you know, history was a year after Hitler came to power in Germany and he always told me to live your life like each day is going to be your last, because one day you will be right. It will be, you don't know when and he lived till 91 and he made the most of his life because he sort of sensed that way.
Like he, at the end of his life, he had Alzheimer's where he didn't remember what he had for breakfast, but you remembered everything about World War II so clearly, cause I was in short term memory that he lost and he was a first Lieutenant in the Army Air Corps before the air force became into existence.
So he was a first Lieutenant in the army and he was trained as a navigator with a crew and they were going to go to England to fight the Nazis in Europe and with the same crew of a B24 there's 10 guys on the B24, 4 officers and 6 enlisted men. And he knew all of them closed with them. And the day before they were going to leave for England, they pulled them and they said, His name was Merwin. MERWIN. The most unusual name you've ever heard in your life.
They said, Merwin, you're not going to Europe to fight the Nazis. We're going to send you to the Pacific, to fight the Japanese. And you're not going to be a navigator. We're gonna make you a radar bombardier and send you to Carlsbad, New Mexico for radar Bombardier training. And there's something called the Norton bomb site, which is like the first computer that my dad worked on. So, he goes, okay and he was very close with all those mates that he was in basic training with.
So they all went to England to fight the Nazis on a transport. The transport crashed in England and they all died. If he wasn't pulled that day before I wouldn't be here because he had he'd have been dead and he did 51 missions. They're supposed to send you home after 25 and they kept on hopping the missions. He did 51 missions and he never had a scratch on him. And he just reached the point where I look at his life and his philosophy was the happiest guy I've ever seen.
And it really sort of resonates with me more after losing Matt, because he would, he would tell me things like there's things in life that you can control and since you can control them, don't worry about it. And there's other things in life that you cannot control. And since you can not control those, don't worry about it. That was his philosophy.
So what you're saying is interesting, cause it seems like obviously the financial decisions you make are your decision and you do have some control over those decisions. So don't worry about those, but then there's other things like a worldwide pandemic that you can't control. And it's interesting when you said that, because it just made me think about what my father says a little bit different form, but I see a synergy between what you were saying, what my dad told me.
Yeah. I think we also Marshall have to be careful of what we put in our brains. And for me that means not watching the news very often when it comes to the pandemic because it's so, negative and, um, you know, who knows what's going to happen. I mean, it's be a rare person who knows how this is going to play out, but that shouldn't stop me from still focusing on finishing well and fulfilling the purpose that's in my life. I know a lot of people have suffered a lot through this pandemic.
Uh, not only with their health, but they were their finances, relationships. I mean, you name it. You know, all we can do is encourage as many people as you can. And just be careful what you listen to, I think is, is an important piece of the puzzle and be careful who you listen to when you're in a grief mode. That's really important.
I did watch the news yesterday, so I have to listen and they had a round table there, the governor in town, and I knew this was going to happen, but they mentioned that again, people, you know, be listening throughout the world. So we're in Central Florida, Orlando and I live in Seminole County, just North of Orlando.
And they said that this year, since the pandemic hit and obviously early February timeframe in Seminole County, the suicide rate has increased by a third over what it was last year before the pandemic, and as a suicide survivor, who I lost my son to suicide.
t's one of those things that are probably not listening to my father, because it does worry me because obviously I can't control it when, if I say don't worry about it, but yet I would love to be able to say something to somebody to try to help, to get that horrific fact changed.
And it's one of those situations where you, I think you realize what you're saying, finishing well is, we got to keep on doing the best we can for as long as we're here, because we don't know who's going to listen to this podcast today. And if there's the, if there's one person that gets something that helps them with their life going forward, I think the three of us would be very happy that we did a good deed with this podcast. And I just went up when I heard that statistic.
It just sort of made me realize, I think what you said is true about not knowing what's going to happen, because I think the longterm effects of the pandemic are yet to be determined, not only from a medical standpoint, but also as you know, financial, but also from a mental health standpoint, I think so many people are going to have PTSD.
So many of these first responders, medical people that have just seen such horrific carnage and suffering and death, and they don't have time to grieve because they have to respond. And I think there's going to be a tidal wave of grief ahead of us as a society. And I'm interested in, what would you think about that?
Yeah, I mean, I, in total agreement with you that we don't know the fallout that mentioned earlier, we were made to have community with one another. And when you're isolated, that's a real challenge for us as a newly married couple. It's been great. I mean, we bring on the sequestering. We were, we couldn't be happier, but all kidding aside, that's, that's a huge challenge for a lot of people.
It would be a significant challenge for me today had I not been married and was living alone with my dog. You know what I mean? That would have, uh, to present real, really tough, tough time for me.
Yeah. I also wonder about like my, I mentioned my father being a child of depression going through World War II. He always had a sense that, well, this too shall pass so we can survive this no matter what happened. And I'm wonder whether our society has that resilience, you know, the world war II generation, they were just humble, they raised their family, they had a resiliency that was amazing to deal with.
You know, my father, again, he lost two children, but he was the happiest guy in the world. He just, he just was, and he didn't worry like my friend Ted had that passed away. He loved my parents and he used to ask my father, um, how come you don't worry about anything? And he says, all my wife, Florence does all the worrying for me, which was true. My father never worried. My mother always worried. So there was a synergy between them.
But I think now with especially younger people with social media and somebody concerned about how many likes they get on something on a Facebook page to me is almost the antithesis of what my father mentally knew how to go through life because my father would not have cared one iota about how many likes you had a Facebook page. You wouldn't know about it, he wouldn't care, it would be irrelevant to him.
And I need that in a positive way because whatever life brought to him, he was able to handle it. And with society the way it is now, I just wonder if our society is as, uh, as, as equipped as the World War II generation was to deal with adversity and I hate to say it, but I would, at this point have had to make a guess on. I would probably say we're not as equipped.
Yea, I think it's an individual up to the individual and what's their experience. What's what's their home life been like? What's, I mean, there's a lot of factors that that will play in. To this, but it will clearly be challenging, really challenging for a lot of people.
I'm just praying that folks will learn from this experience and just become more able to cope with things that are beyond their control cause this, this is beyond our control and it's just a really, I think it magnifies the need to have close relationships with folks to have faith, have a faith. I mean, all those things really are so significant in our wellbeing, in our able, in our ability to cope with grief. There's some basic factors that every one of us on the planet really need.
That's a good point because Steve and I have talked about this and I'll swing it to Steve in a second. You know, Steve and I became friends because after Matt passed July 22nd, 2018, we knew we needed help. So my wife, Debbie went on the internet and just grief support group grief, help, and grief share popped up. And Debbie goes, I don't know what this is, but starting next week. So I said starting next week, sign up either we like it, or we don't.
And we met Steve and Shelly and when Steve started he said that it was really interesting. I've told the story many times, he said, how many people here have taken courses on grief, raise your hand. And of course everybody was there was like, looking like I haven't taken a course on grief. Why in the world would I ever take a course on grief? And obviously Steve knew the answer because nobody's going to take a course on grief until you're in grief and you need it.
You want to avoid it because who wants to grief, but it's just something that's going to happen. And so Steve I've talked so much about how important is to have a support group, you know, in the Jewish religion, when somebody passes away, you do, what's called Sitting Shivah. You stay at home your loved ones, your relatives, your friends come over, they take care of you. So all you really need to do is go through the grief process, but it's done as a community.
Yes
And now that's the antithesis of social distancing. That's the antithesis of everything we're supposed to do with the viruses. You know, Steve and I've talked about this so how much grief is in such a different place. Probably in the first time in a hundred years since the 1918 pandemic, because you need people you need together and as you need hugs, you want to kiss people and now you can't. And that to me is such a conundrum.
You know, we're talking about grief and how, what words would you give to somebody going through that saying, you know, how do you deal with that basic human need, generally and specifically, when you're in grief for human contact, which we can't do now.
Yeah. I mean the zoom or FaceTime calls, or you get some semblance of community it's better than, better than a phone call for sure. But I don't think there's any substitute for looking across the table and seeing somebody and I mean, that's the human experience I'm really looking forward to returning to those days where we can, we can do that.
Amen to that. When we got on the call earlier today, that's the first thing that I wanted to do is to reach out and to give you a hug. So I wanted to thank you for coming on today and sharing your thoughts and your story. I understand you've got a book you've been working on. You have one coming out shortly and I wanted to see if you wanted to give us an update. People may want to know about the book.
Yes, this one is on one of the areas, not only dealing with money, but life and it's on honesty and there's over 450 verses in the New and Old Testament that deal with honesty and the reason, the basic reason that God wants us to be honest is that it impacts our relationship with him.
The second reason is obviously it impacts people and he really is interested in us being honest, there's an interesting verse Marshall it's in Jeremiah 5:1, the Lord speaking, and he says, you know, go up and down the streets of Jerusalem looking in her squares. If you can find one person who deals honestly I will forgive this city. And Jeremiah, he was, he was telling them that if they don't, if they don't shape up the Babylonians are going to come in and wipe out Jerusalem.
And basically he was looking for one honest person. So my challenge at the end of the book is, he's still looking for that one completely honest person, you know, are you the one for your community, your family? So that's the thrust of the book. And I will say this, you know, the Lord , in my experience, when I'm writing a book, he wants to change me before he changes anybody else. And so this has been a great journey for me too. I'm focused on honesty in my own life.
Interesting. I'm looking forward to reading it when it comes out. So we'd like to thank you, you again, for joining us today and coming on and sharing your story and talking about the experiences that you've had. we can't say enough, and I miss our walks.
Same here, Steve. Well, I appreciate so much the invitation to be with you and Marshall. God bless you guys.
Well, thank you very much, Howard
Howard, thank you so much. I really heard so much about you through Steve and I'm glad I got the chance to virtually meet you. And I hope. I will get a chance to hug you also, I'll take a hug when we can do that. We got a date.
God bless you guys have a great day
okay.
Thanks. Bye. Bye
Steve. I just want to give you some of my observations about this very interesting conversation we had with Howard today in the sense that I did not have the pleasure of knowing him as well as you did. And when I did my research and saw that he was very involved with the concept of finishing well, given his background in financial education, I thought it was really a monetary lesson that people can learn from a financial standpoint.
And after spending the time talking to him today, I realized that it is a life decision that really deals with life choices that we all have to make on our timeline, dealing with grief, dealing with our loved ones and how do we make a tribute to those that we've lost forward. And that to me was the takeaway from his concept of finishing well. So I really think it's been something that was different than I thought it was and I think it's a great message. I really do.
Yes, I agree. It is an awesome message. It actually gives me hope on where I can finis and as much as I've wanted to carry on Jordan's work, I think I was right. It is all about finishing well, and it means every aspect of your life. Just not the financial side of it. He's been a good friend for me the last seven or eight years, even before Jordan passed. We walked and talked a lot of mornings when I was out for my run.
He helped me through the early times, after Jordan's passing, I had a chance to return the favor as he was helping Bev. I knew it wasn't just the financial aspect, but he was pretty clear.
Earlier today as we went through the different portions, that there's a lot of different aspects to look at for finishing well, and I actually take it as a challenge to what's it mean for you because everybody's on their own journey and we're not sure when that day comes or how long we have to achieve it, but he's helping others finish welding. I really enjoyed having him on it. I've missed talking with them.
Very interesting guy and I do look forward to taking a walk with him and you when we can all do it together and I give him a hug then.
Awesome, me too. Thanks everybody for joining today. And listening to Marshall and I have a conversation with Howard Dayton.
I hope everybody has a good day and talk to you soon.
Thank you for joining us on Hope thru Grief with your cohost Marshall Adler and Steve Smelski.
We hope our episode today was helpful and informative since we are not medical or mental health professionals, we cannot and will not provide any medical, psychological or mental health advice. Therefore, if you or anyone, you know, requires medical or mental health treatment, please contact a medical or mental health professional immediately.