Oliver Mills: Being kinder to yourself

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My mind just like snapped and it took a long time to recover. I really am just a boy trying to enjoy himself. I do that non apologetically. All I feel is just a deep sense of gratitude, Like I am so overwhelmingly grateful for just existence.

Hey, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Hope Israel, the podcast. The podcast designed to help you feel a little less alone, a bit more inspired, and of course, as always, a lot more hopeful. Now, today's guest is a guy that you will know. You will have seen his face. He is the man behind the twenty two hat. He is the man involved in I think one of TikTok's most famous love triangles.

It's Oliver Mills. Now Oliver.

For those of you who may have listened to last season of the podcast, he was on last season. If you haven't listened to the episode, please pause this one right now, go back, listen to his other one, and then come back to this one. Because the man who is sitting in front of me today on this episode is so different to the person who sat down with me a year ago. The growth that Oliver's had has

But he lived a lot of his life with depression.

He had hospital stays, and the last time that I sat down with him, he was really in the mindset that his depression was his identity and it's just who he was and no matter what he did, it would never change. But now he's began to realize a lot of the stuff around self care and the importance of

Oliver Mills, Hey, goodness, you're back.

I think you were like maybe one of two guests that I've had on twice and I had to do it because your life has changed a little bit like jurassically changed.

The last time you were here, you were very different.

You had a smashed phone that you were trying to record your things on.

You were run TikTok, no it on TikTok. For those listening watching, is it we video and not?

Yeah, yeah we are as soon.

As me and Jay's finished our last part cause she gave me her home. So from that and from that day forth, on the drive home, I was like, I will vanquish her enemies until the day. I adore you.

I adore you.

It's such a force for light in New Zealand especially but the world.

Oh you're so sweet.

Knock it out of the park.

I mean, you're knocking out of the park right now, and I really it makes me. Every time I see you online, it just fills me with joy because the person that I met the very first time we were at Kessie Henderson's launch thing or party at whatever it was album party thing and seeing this passionate I was about to say little, but that's bold of me to say when I can't touch the floor on this chair that I'm sitting in.

But this passionate kid.

Who just was so like you were so excited, the world was soberg but there was also so much going on for you. And who sits in front of me now is just a different person to who sat in front of me last time.

So much has happened, lots and lots and lots so.

Like, literally so much that Okay, so I need to I honestly don't even know where to start. Like, first of all, I've never sabbed so much when I saw you get the twenty two hatch from Taylor Swift.

It's ridiculous. No, I don't. I actually still don't really know how to talk about it. Like I've seen so many videos of that happening and I forget that, like I have the memory from my eyes and going back to that is like, what the hell is going on?

I can't believe that have you had a moment of like you literally nearly missed the Oliver, like lots of those.

Like more than anything right now, all I feel every day is just a deep sense of gratitude, Like I am so overwhelmingly grateful for just existence. Really I feel very very lucky. I can't believe I get to be here with you, Like this is truly this is a dream, very serious. I absolutely adore you. I think you were so wonderful. I really adore you.

And that's why, like from the moment that I met you, I was like I just need Like you're gonna have such a huge impact this world, and your joy is infictious and it's contagious. And to be able to even look at Oliver that was sitting here last season, and to be able to tell you, like, this is what your life is going to look like in.

A year and one year.

The kid who sat here before was still very unsure of life, was still very you know, mental health was always up and down anyway, but like didn't know what.

His purpose was, didn't know. And now you're out here, you're traveling. You went to London.

Yeah, I had I had a big brand deal in London, like my first ever. That was my first ever brand deal. It's the first time I got paid from anything TikTok or and social media or anything.

Yeah, you were like really broke when I saw you last time as well.

Yeah, my phone was cracked, like yes, how it happened was Jazz was like, do you want to take a photo? I was like no, no, sorry, Like my my TikTok wasn't opening on that phone. It was like an iPhone ten. But it was beat all hell and and you gave me a phone and then it really has been up that. Yeah, I went to London, like I've never traveled, Like I've really not done much living really, I did most of it in here for the first like how many years.

Can we can we do a bit of a recap for those whom we didn't hear the last episode of your Journey before this year, because this year has been absolute Like I look at it and I so understand it because I remember when this happened for me, different didn't have Taylor Swift telling me I'm the funniest person. But I remember my life exploding and being like, oh

Hard battle with your mind? Can you tell us what happened? I?

Yeah, I was depressed at sixteen fifteen and sixteen from a really bad breakup and my mind just like snapped it and it took a long time to recover. And then I struggled through and stumbled through existence for a long time, and then was at university and moved around there and I don't really like school and never really liked school, so like there was going to university was a bit silly. I have a degree that I haven't finished.

What degree was it?

Philosophy and psychology?

That makes so much sense.

For Visah' sorry what an arrogant thing?

No, like literally, with the way that you talk, it makes so much sense.

I couldn't do so psychology great, like straight a's no problem at all. Philosophy, what are we talking about? Like can we actually say something that has meaning and value rather than like, here's what this white man thinks, and this white man disagreed and hadn't I what are we doing?

Like, yeah, correct, I couldn't.

I couldn't get into it, but then stumbled upon techtoc like just started uploading random videos of me singing in the car, and then it took off, and Christmas last year, I was like, I'm just gonna We're just gonna do this, like I'm gonna see what happens. And so I moved home to them Mount with lips, started living with Mum and Dad, and then it all just started falling into place.

And I really don't know where I am now, which younger Oliver would have never believed because you were struggling to even stay alive a while ago.

Yeah, like like really quite quite seriously was nearly not here. And the amount of times that I just see you're posting or just seeing stuff have you come up and just this immense like I can't even explain how proud I am that, like, because I've seen you in that his space of just like this is my identity, nothing's ever going to change, and for you to experience what real hope is, like you couldn't even answer that question last time.

You couldn't answer what the meaning of hope was.

When you were like, like, so is there hope? And I was like, don't make me tell them that there's not.

Well, you also believed that depression was just who you were. How has that shifted for you? No, you still believe that's who.

You are, not who I am. But like, God, this is a step forward we're making straight. It's no, it's more for me. It's that like I have a very sensitive mind. Yeah, Like I broke my arm when I was sixteen or seventeen or whatever, and it healed wrong, and I have bad knees and so like I'm very careful with them, and it's the same with my brain. I take at the moment, I just take an incredible amount of care with myself and my peace and what allows me to get through. And a lot of the

Well, that also is such a significant difference, even though it might kind of feel the same, the fact that you're even able to be.

Like I'm actually just really sensitive, Like I've got you.

Know, like this stuff that just impacts you a lot more than it might impact someone else, just because of the way that you've developed and for you to be able to see that and understand that and take.

Care of that.

Yeah, I'm very I'm very gentle with myself. I know a lot about what I need. And for the longest time I fought against that because it felt like I was fighting against the the illness. But it's no, it's it's more like accepting what I am. And that's like someone who will uh stray into really really dark thoughts. Yeah, and so I'm just I'm just gentle with myself, trying to try and be very kind with myself. I protect my peace over pretty much anything good without being hedonistic.

I can't believe you drove up here just for this.

Of course. Yeah, no, I'll do I'll do anything for you. Oh my gosh, I I owe you the world. I know, not at all.

Not at all.

It's been my my absolute greatest pleasure just watching you live this crazy life. And I mean the moment with Taylor Swift is like we have we have to talk about all of it, because first of all, every video I'd ever seen was children getting it.

Yep, but should have been a kid.

And then suddenly it's Oliver no, no, no, how iconic?

Is this right? Okay? Can you can you tell? Like what happened? So get to this concert?

Usually so yeah, Taylor Swift gives out a twenty two hat, a hat signed with during her song twenty two too, usually a child, usually a sick child. So we got there in the mediate last start finding all the you know, all the maker Wish kids, and I'm pushing them out of the way, shoving them care and getting all these little things. And then I got to the stage and I was like, hey, I'm here, and she saw me.

And Taylor specifically requested it to be you yeah, yeah.

Which is I don't know I don't know how no one that is or if that's something you want to be knowing, But like that was something that wasn't random, Like she chose you, Oliver. That seems amable, Like it wasn't her team that just saw you and was like, oh we should bring Like she chose you because of the light that you bring and how funny you are.

I can't believe she should should have been a child.

But happy, right, I mean, I'm thrilled for you. You're standing there, You're what should have come towards you.

She would have been a set kid. But I'm happy to take it right.

What's going through your brain as you're standing there?

Oh, nothing at all?

Like what's going through your brain when you find out you are going to get the twenty two hat?

I did? I mean nothing, Like what what do you mean? First of all, like they they came and got us and moved us to VIP and like even that, I was like, what are we doing? Like this is so shue, But this was so last minute. It was like we found out I found out I was going to Eras like a week before we went wow and then yeah, one of her teams said, well, we were walking down to VIP like it's just leading me no this, and I was like I don't know what to do about that or with that at all.

I would have just left. Yeah, I couldn't have handled it. I would have just I would have just exited the building.

Yeah. No. Yeah. So it was just like, okay, let's just uh, let's just enjoy the concert. And it's eras is. Have you seen have you been?

I haven't. I couldn't get tickets.

We have to go? Yes, please, It's the most unbelievable show.

Yeah, I've seen every single video. I watch every video.

It's ridiculous, feel like a movie. And because we were in VIP, sorry like this, sorry anyway, So I was in VIP with my with my twenty two hats and it's basically don Julio like that was like Ben's full of and you know, it was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. But I don't I I really don't know how to speak about it quite quite earnestly, because it's so unfathomable.

I just I remember seeing the video and messaging you immediately, and I'm pretty sure the first thing that I said.

To you was, Oliver, you nearly missed this. Yeah, like that was the first.

Obviously you were still and you still are now, just like, literally, what the heck? No, But as an outsider who knew your story and seeing this and being like, boy, if you had gone through I was not being here and the way that you had tried to and believe that you should not be here, you would not be standing in front of Taylor Swift getting this damn hat dancing along.

Like. I had moments like that during Enchanted, where like just literally looking up and this like it's like this quasi religious song amongst one hundred thousand people, every single person in the stadium is singing it, and I was looking up and I was like, we made it. Like I really can't believe I'm gonna cry. I'm here.

I'm literally gonna cry.

I can't believe I got there. I had. I had lots of moments like that during the concert of just like we I really nearly missed all of this.

I think I'm legitimately there are tears forming in my eyeballs. I'm so emotion about it because I also remember, and it was not that long ago, having a similar moment I was at Pang and which side note also insane concert when you're flying around this is amazing, what are you doing?

Get done?

But just standing there.

And looking up and I remember just starting to cry and having this moment of like I really missed this, Like and it's just those moments of like not even the big crazy things that happen in life, but just a moment of being amongst all of these people and being like, holy crap, like I had.

I'd had the adverse moments of like experiencing a pain so great that like this is so great that it can't be worth it. And I had that at the Swift content. I've had it many times since, of like this is so good that everything is worth it. That that during enchanted of me, like literally like looking up and there's all these lights and it's all the whole standium is purple. I got you one of these, actually, I forgot to bring it for you. Yeah, Hella Swift's

Is Taylor fIF just touched this.

Yeah, this was one of the ones on my on my hands. I had to forgot about it level of course, of course.

Oh my gosh, Oliver, Oh my godness, this is Oh my gosh.

I was in my room this morning, like which one, Like, there's like a hundred I had. I had like a you know, down to my elbows of and I'm like screwing through.

If you could look back at Oliver a year.

Ago and tell him what was about to happen, what would like, how do you how do you talk to.

Oliver from a year ago?

I wouldn't tell him anything, you know, like he had to be who he was to experience what he did. And so yeah, no, I'd never betray my former self with do this differently, Like I you know, I'm.

Just so thankful that your former self chose to fight every single day to be here, and not just for these massive, crazy successful moments.

But just for you and who you are and seeing.

You develop as just like you're really coming into yourself and you're finding yourself and you are finding your place in the world, and the fact that you had to like people will never understand how hard you had to fight to just be okay with yourself and to be okay in your own company. And I think that happens a lot of the time when people see people becoming successful in.

Any area, but especially online. You see these highlights.

But you've been so incredible as well at being so transparent about kind of the ups and the downs and showing the whole journey, and a lot of people can still be like, yeah, it just kind of snapped and then it was great, and now he's just lived this perfect life in the case.

No, I was at Starship right. They locked me away. They took my shoelacers and the drawer street from my ship. I was there.

Oh my god, did that I don't think we did.

And I went to the and see if you was that the child family unit.

Yeah, I hang out with the kids through all the time.

I'd love to go.

Back, but you go back together.

Yeah, I love to. They had me in the in the ward where like you're not allowed outside it here. Yeah, it was. It was bad.

We did not talk about this shike psych Wold experiences. How old were.

You sixteen, I think, or maybe sixteen or seventeen. I can't remember if I got my tattoos at seventeen. I can't remember if I had tattoo.

What was it that legit into the psyched?

Oh, it was just like a string of At some point, your parents, like my parents just couldn't do anything. We tried everything, and then I think I had a quasi attempt or something. I clearly have learned a new word of said quasi like six times. Yeah, yeah, I think I had an attempt. And then they just drove me. It was the most like picturesque, picturesque horror story I think you ever seen. Like we drove. I was in the hospital. I don't remember it because you know, I'm

So do you remember going into see if.

You a little bit? I remember the fact I remember being in there the first night and screaming at the top of my lungs, like like pushing everyone, running away, getting it, finding the corner of the room, screaming at the top of my lungs, like yelling at them. Just I was just psychotic, and then being like the next day being like, man, I can't believe I'm in here with these crazy people. I think about it, I'm like wait,

The lacers.

Honestly, I remember my first ever time getting admitted to the psych ward and it was like two o'clock in the morning when I got put in, and so I was like taking through a back entrance and I literally remember being like I'm in jail, like Shoelacers gone, hoot eastring.

Gone, everything, phone charger gone.

And I also went into the high ka, which is like the one on one like someone's looking at you.

All the time, and I remember line for your drugs. Yes, everyone's like.

But also just like like it was a good place for me to be in regards like stabilizing me.

But it's a wild experience.

Yeah, yeah, no, I I it needs more sunlight.

Aren't you so glad that you weren't active on social media as much when you were there?

Like goodness, I'm just so thankful crashed out.

You know what was then? When I was there though? Pokemon Go. So Pokemon Go was just there and there was a remember the gym, you'd like fight at the gym. There was a gym just outside and so I was in the corner like reach trying to get that, trying to get jiggly path or whatever or.

Like, did you play the volleyball outside with the you know, they didn't.

I don't think they let me. Oh no, they did let me over there. And there was a drum set and I was on the drum set.

Oh yes, the drum set is still there, yes, yeah.

And it was beat to shirt and I I think, I know it was fun. Yeah. They let me through the doors to the other to the other side.

Could you imagine little all of us sitting in there in their site called like knowing the life that you were about to have, like not just like I often think about this with myself and like those moments of being like nothing's gonna change this as who I am like and when you I don't think people understand when you live a life genuinely believing you are going to

Yeah, we were working on borrow time, and that's beautiful. I'm happy to I mean.

When I just start paying bills and I was like, I wasn't planning on being here.

How lucky to be able to pay bills? What an incredible thing to be able to experience.

You've been able to just do so many freaking things. And obviously t Swift was one.

You went to the UK and then you you're this triangle thing blew up and I was so confused for so long as to what was going on. But I was like, it's me, and then it's her name Aar and then Yuval and just triangle and then suddenly you're the new version of Bridges and what happened?

Do you even know?

It was ridiculous? Yeah? No, he really found my house by the way, he'd like, he did send those flowers to my house.

Talking is not okaycourage.

That I met im On on this Audible shoot and we got along really well. I think about that a lot actually, Like on that Audible shoot, Aarme and Brittany and were the first two friends I made in the industry through a job. Like I can't believe. I mean, two of the most incredible women you've ever come across, really, and I get to call them friends? What a what

It not planned?

No, of course not.

Oh my goodness. Actually that doesn't surprise me at all, no speak, and.

I'm leaning into it to be ridiculous because like ridiculous is fun. But then it just got they got a bit the best thing out of it. Like I feel so blessed to have been a part of that. They raised our man, you've all raised somewhere near half a million dollars for Palestinian families. It's incredible, Like what a you know, so like I can't believe I was lucky enough to be a part of that.

Was it ed all hard on your mental health? Having this sudden Yeah, of course, like everyone watching, Yeah, yeah.

I find I find the notoriety of whatever we do quite unbearable.

Yeah, yeah, it's weird, right, It's weird because it then starts to translate into the real world, like when it's online and then you start to go out and you get stopped all the time, and you're like, wait, people actually know me.

I like when people come up to me. I prefer I have a lot of like problems with self hate, and so when people are like pointing and steering and like taking photos from a distance, you can you can tell like you like, we know, we know what's happening.

We can see it.

Yeah, that freaks me out because in my head I'm thinking, like they just thinking, look at that loser tech talk dorg over there with his stupid shoes, you.

Know, and me now yeah yeah, those of you who can't see that's where wearing the same shoes, just different fonts and.

It's dumb haircut, like where do you get their hair at the toilet stool? And I'm just in my head like they hate me, this goob from Meet the Robinson's, like they all hated me.

Where does the self hate come from?

I don't know, I really don't. I have no problems with self esteem, like a my self worth is non existent, but self esteem no problem. Like I can be ridiculous and sing online clearly, but when it comes down to it, like I struggle to I don't know. I think I know all the things wrong with me, and they're the loudest in my head. Yeah, but I've been doing a lot recently to I mean, attempt to see myself from someone else's shoes. I'm quite like, you know, I'm quite nice,

Yeah you do really like the amount of time that you need to be able to sit and understand the person you might, but I also understand, like when you've had the life that you have had, like the self worth, the self worth and the like being able to just be out there and be extravertied and be yourself Like,

That the self worth can struggle in that environment.

Have you found it more or less as your kind of profile has grown? The self worth?

Yeah?

Not real, Like I really at the moment, what I'm really doing is just I really am just a boy trying to enjoy himself and I do that non apologetically.

Right now, tell me that the top three things that you love about yourself.

Oh god, I'm really funny. I'm really funny. I am kind, I am kind, and I do love unapologetically and I'll never stop. It's not love bombing when I actually love you and I do love you.

There is definitely a line between love bombing and love.

So I'm I'm clarified.

I don't do it though, I mean it. I really do. Okay, I really do.

Yeah, I mean you do.

And and I ask you that because I also think that that's the kind of thing that's important to remember when, especially when you're talking about trying to see yourself from other people and how other people experience you and interact with you and in your presence. Like every time I've been around you, I'm like, this guy is awesome. Like

Animals. Animals love me. That's my thing recently. Actually, it's like, uh yeah, when you're padd a dog and it don't walk off.

Highly recommend just standing in a dog park and then they all come to you and you're like, drink.

This is the best thing.

I live at the mountain. The beach is just riddled with dogs.

I love them out. It's such a beautiful place.

My favorite.

What are the things that you do for yourself when you are struggling mentally? I do like going out, being at the beach, being in nature. Do you sit by yourself? Do you I know, you listen to a lot of music. You sing because you can sing, I.

Think at the moment, like it's less so like one particular thing. It used to be like, you know, I need to exercise or I need to do this, but I just I just take great care with being really kind to myself, like the whole thing of you know, when you get really bad and then you have to celebrate brushing your teeth. Yeah, really truly celebrate that. And I just do that, you know, I really do that. If I have two days pray, do nothing but scroll and taketok, Hey, that's fine, Like it's one great long

Well also being in a world where everything that you're seeing is like all those videos are like here's my five to nine before my nine to five, and being like, oh, I didn't wake up at four am.

Therefore I'm so unproductive.

So that stuff doesn't work for me.

No neither.

Yeah, Well, like I you know, I had a month where I was going a bit at like two and that's what I needed at the time, and I have no problem with that. And then I had sometimes where I'm like incredibly introverted and I and you know, the people around me respect that and understand that, like he's just doing this thing. But then I have times where I'm like I want to see a lot of people. Now I just I'm just that's my thing at the moment.

Existing which is so freaking important to everyone who's listening to this, who also is flooded on TikTok with this, like feeling like you're not doing enough and you're not enough and oh should I should be doing all of these things?

Like if all that you did is brush your teeth, like that's it's it's your existence.

Yeah, you take that at your own pace.

Yeah, well, what else do you think in the last year since we last spoke, what else has changed in your life?

My relationship with my parents has never been better.

Oh I love that.

Yeah that'll that'll kill me. Hold on, Yeah, no, I moved home. I moved home for Christmas too, because I was just like our flat disbanded. I didn't really know where to go, and I was like, I'll go home for Christmas and then we'll see I haven't left. And yeah.

It's really beautiful. Has it been like literally moving home is what's done?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think we we have like a greater respect for each other. I just love them dearly. And they're really good, you know, they're just they're just they're actually just good people. And yeah, that's.

So sweet and such, like it's such a huge thing.

And to have that, especially in the career that you have and to be such a public life and to just have that stability and to feel understood and I mean the gravity of what you just said of feel like feeling the way that you do now and that

It's all good.

Yeah, it's I think we all understand that it's an in between, but it's more that like they just have me. Like the people in my life that I call family of friends that have had they just have me, like my unit is unseparable, and they all know I require a bit of care, like a bit, a bit more of a gentle, delicate care, and they offer that like

Do you think other people, like in your unit specifically, that have stuck around this whole time, how do.

They view you?

Ridiculous? I'm ridiculous. I'm ridiculous, Like I have no plans ever for anything. I'm cow polk. I float with the wind. I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't. I don't make plans for anything. I can't. It's it's stressful some things, obviously, you know.

But when you look at your self worth and the things that you believe about yourself, and then you realize that these people have.

Stuck around for good reason. Why have they stuck around they have to, you know, we don't have to.

I'll show up on their doorsteps. No, it's my visterer. And Flynn, he's not a friend, he's you know, he's family. And he was saying that the other day. He's like, I've been around too long, Like there's really nothing that we could do that would separate. But yeah, it's they have a patience with me that I am just very grateful for.

How important have those relationships been within your mental health journey?

What's everything to me? No, I am only alive because of the people around me. Really, you'll you'll throw that back on me and say like, no, it's you, and I understand.

No, no, no, I can. I can absolutely understand. Those people are important forever.

I just thought that, like you know, happiness or like peace was something like entirely internal and it's just such a it's wrong, like it's such a we cannot separate ourselves from the greater unit. And I think figuring out your place and that is what you need to do.

It's so huge. And I know that you said that. I'll just throw it back at you what you just said, but I'm not going to because one thing that I noticed, I do a lot of I get to do a lot of travel, and I'm so lucky to do that.

And amongst that travel, I've ended up in a lot.

Of like very deep out villages and like Cambodia or Africa. And what's been really striking to me is that these people who have absolutely nothing are the happiest people I've ever met. And that's because their entire life is operating on this family.

Like everyone, it's about people. You know, your neighbors.

If someone sudden happens to someone's parents, the whole village takes them in, whereas here in the Western world we don't even know our neighbors half the time.

Unbearable, there's too much going on all the time.

Yeah, but it's also become so like based on things, and we're not happy if we don't have the certain things, and we've taken away that kind of the need for human connection, which is for me when I go to these places, I'm like, these people are happier than we ever will be, Like they know pure joy because they're not.

Comparing anything to anyone else.

All they know is that they love hard and they are so loved by every single person around them. Yeah, but how like to be able to take that kind of concept and bring it into our lives and like understand the importance of friendships and community and connection, and it is something that when you're struggling like you were and probably at times still are, like mental health is a nonlinear journey.

That was my move. Yeah me too, yeah, my my, what do you call it? Trauma? Response was I would just isolate and you know, disappear as much as I can. And that has its place, certainly, But you need someone to go to. You need because you have to say things to people. I find talk therapy like unbelievably helpful. Some people don't.

Are you still in therapy now?

Yeah? I pop in it out. I have the same therapist as I've had since I was sixteen. God, when I was sixteen, like starting therapy, I ran through them. I just obliterated therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists. You know. They kicked me out of cams like you know we had Oh my gosh, we.

Got kicked out of cams. That's hard to do.

I didn't respect them, I hated them. They were reading from a book, you know, and I can't have a conversation with a textbook or an idea. And then I sat down with my therapist in a and I think within five minutes I've been through like seven at this point. Within five minutes he swore and I said I. I was like, oh, you might be a real person. And then later on, like ten minutes later, he called. He was like, don't

Finding the right therapist is so important.

I literally feel like I've only just found the right one be with her for a few years now.

That's the problem. It's so hard to attempt to go and find one, and people get so put off when it doesn't work immediately, because it doesn't a lot of the time, you keep pushing. It's a person like you have to find the person that gets you. A lot of them don't know, a lot of them don't. But man, when you find that one, yeah, unbelievable.

And it's so like, obviously every therapist is so different and some people really like the like and how does it make you feel like the real soft thing.

I can't do it.

I can't soft like probably he grabs me and it's like, let's sit in there.

Yes, I'm like tough life, and I stare.

At it and like look at the minutes or it's very intense.

Yeah.

My therapist a while ago, I've been doing a lot of trauma therapy, which is so fun and it's.

Been a wild time.

But I remember her saying a while ago, like I every time that the emotions would come up, I would turn away from her and do everything I could to not feel it. And she was like, Jazz, you have this tendency to block anything that's related to sadness. And I was like, no, I don't, and she was like, no, you do. There's something that's so like you're so afraid

I would lose it. I would bore my eyes out.

You would just sit with me, and then I would be fine and she would be like.

We're still here, Like you're okay, You're gonna be okay.

And it made so much sense when I realized that I had been doing that and blocking it because for so long it meant crisis for me.

Like for so long if I felt these things, I'm not getting out of it. I'm running to the nearest something.

And like so when something like no, I know all too well, like edit, Yeah, it's a weird thing. To then kind of grow up and mature and be able to recognize those trauma responses that you have and finding a therapist who can understand that is so important.

How old were you when you met your therapists?

Sixteen or seventeen. We really tried everything, like we were going as spiritual healers. Towards the end, Mum was like, let's just do whatever anyone you know, like throwing stuff at the wall.

At this point, I mean you kind of have to eigh.

We ran out of you know, It's like at some point, maybe the guy with magic hands that you know, all, maybe he will help, and he did, Yeah, and he did a little bit.

Well you literally we had someone a phenomenal Malti girl who went through a spiritual healer and worked for her.

And I was like, this is amazing.

Depending on who you are as a person and kind of the things that something that works for me is not going to work for you, and vice versa, and so finding that person that you can click with and the therapist like for you to be able to like find that person who will just bring you and be like, I'm calling you on your bullshit? Isn't it so good to find that person?

Your healing journey is your own, and you have to stick around long enough to find out what works for you because something really.

Well, Oliver, you would have never said that last year.

No, of course not. No, maybe I won't say it next year. What's how we go? No?

You will. You will because you've experienced now.

And I'm not talking about again, like I need to make it so abundantly clear, I'm not talking about like career excess success, sorry, but the moments that you've had, like at the at the Taylor Swift concert, not getting the hat, but the moment of looking up and being like, oh my gosh.

Like I'm here.

Like, because you've experienced those moments, you'll know what that is the next time that life depths, because life does, you will know what it is that you're aiming towards getting back to you and you will know that that's what hope is, because last time you.

Didn't know what hope was, it wasn't just very lost. Yeah, well, what do you think hope is to you now?

I think it's just like a faith like belief that it will get better like it is. And I say faith not in a religious way, but in a way that's like when you get that bad that you like lose hope, it's you have to just really believe that it will get better. And it's so impossible to see when you're that bad.

If you could be in the same room as little sixteen year old Oliver, you could be in that high care psych wood sitting opposite him, what would you say to him?

Listen, yeah, just listen.

What do you think he would say?

He'd probably screamed for like twenty minutes and then and then he just say I'm tired and it hurts. Yeah, and that's okay?

Was it a.

I don't know if you ever found out or not, Like with with your depression and the stuff that you were dealing with, was it it like a chemical thing for you or was it situational because obviously it came from like started, I guess from the breakup that you had was something that had been there beforehand.

I'm not sure it's bad enough that like it must be chemical, yeah, just because it was. You know, it's so ridiculous. I have I have a good life, beingly on paper, like, yeah, have a very good life, but I have a brain that attacks itself and quite aggressively, and so yeah.

What's so interesting is that with a brain like yours and like mine as well, I mean not mine came from a lot of trauma stuff as well, and these beliefs that kind of develops with me. But also the way that your brain functions and does go in these really lows is also the exact same brain that has this wild creativity and these beautiful moments and can see things that other people can't see, and like carries this lightness and this kindness that.

You have, Like I know that for me.

So I've got ADHD and what I remember, shut.

Up, do you have ADHD.

Who knows, I've got a whole bunch of stuff.

You should get tested.

I can find out on TikTok, now, can't you? You just like that?

I mean, that's legitimately how I found out.

If you see hashtag ADHD on TikTok means you have. But I think that's how it works, right.

They probably would go a little bit further to say you should talk to someone.

I started seeing these videos and was like this.

I just thought this is who I was like as a person, like this is just me, And I was like, no, this is a disorder. And but the thing is right, my HD brain that like I struggle to do so many normal everyday things, is the same brain that my impulsivity is what has broke through most of my career and has allowed me to do so much of the things. And there was a thing that I saw or some psychologist says that people with ADHD don't just think outside the box, they create an entire new one.

And without saying you have ADHD, I feel like you are.

That person as well, who has this wildly creative brain that you don't just think outside of the box like you do create an entire new thing, and I love like you post so unapology, unapologetically, like twelve million times a day sometimes and then not at all other times. When I first met you, you were posting like six even eight times a day.

It was a lot. Yeah, it was just like.

Wok is because your brain was just going and you were like, post, post, post post.

It's fun. I find it. I do what I feel like I should do at the time.

Do you feel like you have Do you have gratitude for your the way that your brain works in that?

Oh? Yeah, My ability to improv is for my ability to what's it called when you bring things on to yourself manifest Yeah, my my skills. I went to the Travis Kelcey's School of Manifestation. Like, I'm right up there like everything. I really do believe that everything happens exactly when it's supposed to.

What do you think of the first signs for you that you need to take moments for yourself?

What starts happening in your world that you're like, oh, Oliver, I just I do it.

I intrinsically, I act. I act out what I need. Most of the time. I find myself acting out what I need most of the time. Yeah, so I'll just start. It's it's more the mental shift of accepting that because before I would I realized now that like, that's what I need if I'm doing nothing, if I'm scoring on tiktalk for days at a time, that's what I need for me.

Right now, that's your screen time on TikTok before.

Do you want to know it? Yeah? Really?

Yeah? Right now? Cheerfull them up?

Okay, hang on, Oliver's Oliver's going to get his phone, because as we need to find out from two people that spend their lives on TikTok, what our what our screen time is.

In a way that I'm nervous, don't understand.

This is a very important information that we must find I'm actually kind of nervous, to be honest.

Who do you think's gonna have higher?

My last week's oat of screen time was fourteen hours and thirty minutes.

That's not terrible. No, mine was ten hours and thirty eight Yeah, but that.

Doesn't make any total total screen time of one hundred and one hours?

And wait last week? Hang on, how do I then we go to the week before?

Oh, what was the week before? Is this daily average?

My week before.

More than fourteen and a half hours.

Thirty three hours, thirty three hours.

Talking about Oh that's total screen time, babe, I'm blowing that.

Oh okay, we're just talking about TikTok.

We're just.

I'm different all of that. I'm like done one of the My god, let's got brain rop for brain rock.

Can I can I read your time out of your total screen time? Oliver's total screen time last week?

One hundred and one hours even one hundred and one hours and a week.

Oh, let's find out two four six.

That's like you've spent almost four consecutive days. I am this is the life of people who live their lives online. That's that's that's impressive. I'm really Oh you still want the same phone cases when I gave you the phone, of course, Please gave me this phone that's really cute.

Until the end of time, I will vanquish your enemies and come what you call like, I really am here.

Oh my gosh, this is Taylor Swift. You look like you're worshiping Taylor Swift.

Yeah, I mean she is to be worshiped.

I still cannot.

I feel I'm now one degree away from Taylor sworft By that's my girl, that's honestly, and being in those moments, Like the only thing I can ever even slightly related to is when I was in Vegas and got to go backstage with Lady Gaga and.

Was just, wit, what did I tell you this? I hung out with her, I'll throw up so oh my gosh.

So I worked with her mum for a while and I was going to Vegas with my friend and she Gaga's my message and was like, Hey, do you want to come backstage? It's her final jazz concert that she was doing her residency in Vegas, and so we were like yeah.

So we go backstage thinking that.

We would like maybe get to like see her quickly, like take a photo with Gaga. If fat no, we can give it a family wristband. We go into this little family room. There's like four of us in there, and Gaga comes in before the show and she's chilling in there for like an hour. She's got a track sit on, She's sitting there talking to me about mental health and like all the stuff.

That we do.

She's so I was just like in awe, And then I.

Was like, I can't ask for a photo that this is such an inappropriate time to ask for a photo, but I do have, like there's like this sneaky like little thing that I took on my phone just to prove I was there, because no one's gonna believe me when I'm like I was backstage.

With I don't have to believe you. You know what You're life.

It's such an insane moment.

That's Lady Gaga's I love her and she's yeah, she's the she is one of the queens. Yeah, like she really paved the way.

And she's so she's so genuine, Like I was at

It's Gaga and like Chapel Rome.

Yeah, those people.

I love Chaperone so much. They make me feel encouraged to indulge in ridiculous and I just adore that. I just find that just to be so wonderful because it's good. We don't have a lot of that New Zealand. We don't have there's no characters in New Zealand to like model like you know, anything off.

Have you experienced tool poppy syndrome of New Zealand, Yeah, of course I have.

It's weird island nation. It's going to happen, you know, it's it's gonna happen.

It's a weird it's a really weird thing.

For those of you who aren't from New Zealand, we're obviously so far away from the world, and there's a thing called tool poppy syndrome, which is basically like no one is allowed to rise above the rest, and so if anyone has seen to be succeeded in any kind of way, New Zealand kind of tends.

To cut them down quite fast.

And it's really weird when you then go to America, Like I got so used when people would ask me what I did, or like love America what I do, and I would just be like, I work in mental health.

And then my friend Nix who like she just wanted dancing with the stars, and I was.

Like about, I walk your shits. Dan On Bennison, I'm learning to us Americans.

I love them, I love I love I love Americans. I find them so wonderfully optimistic. Their optimism comes with delusions of grande. But I will take it. I will take the delusion if it means the optimism truly, I will. Yeah. I Bobby they they they like Trojan Horse Tour Bobby in with under the guise of humility. Hey me humble, Hey man, I'm I'm winning though. Yeah, Like I'm up right now, like rather than like trying to make me humble, come up here with me, dude. It's great.

And you also not with people like us? What's keeping us the most humble our own damn brains? Like, trust me when I say we don't need to be.

I hate me more than you ever could, sir, So I'll stop you right there.

It's not gonna Yeah, what does the next year look like for you?

Ridiculous? Yeah? Can you tell us anything I need at Ariana Grande. That's my that's my day. One that'll happen.

I love this for you.

No, whatever, what is the next year? Look like I might do a show. I think I'm going to do a show. I had plans to do a show called The Olive Show.

Yes, I saw this, but I do this, yeah, just it just felt there.

It just wasn't ready and I had a bunch of stuff move around in my life that I wasn't ready for. And so yeah, I think I will. I think I will do that, but I might move overseas for that. I might move somewhere to do that, or you know, or maybe sell the show to something. It's quite it's quite hard. Yes, it was just me, like I have it set up in my garage where I was going to do it. But you know, I found quite quickly

Creatives.

Yeah, and I was like, I'll just do that, and I was like, no, I have no idea what I'm doing, so but no, that'll that'll happen. I just need to figure out what it is.

Can you get around with other creatives and they help you figure it out?

Yeah, no exactly, But otherwise, like I really am just where I'm supposed to be, exactly where I'm supposed to be there, I'm just I'm just pottering.

And I have already asked you kind of what I always do.

Is the last last question in regards to what Hope means to you, So I'm not going to make you answer that again, but I would love you to give advice to any person that is listening to this or watching this, whatever platform they may be doing. So, people that are struggling with their own minds, that feel outcasts, that feel like there is no hope for them, that feel like you did in that ward and like you did last year, what would you say to them?

It's dreadful. You just have to hold on, you really do. Just have to hold on. There will come a day soon where you won't recognize the pain you feel now, and that is worth all of the strife. Just get there and then we'll be good.

I love that, love you, I love you.

Thank you so much for coming up and for doing another episode.

Another season of Hope is real. Honestly, it's been Yes, can we actually, of course we need to.

There's so much that happens in your life in a year, like it's so it's so wild seeing it unfold, and I am so like, I know that you obviously have achieved so much in the last year, but just for who you are, Like, I'm so.

Freaking proud of you.

You fought so hard, harder than most people will comprehend to have the life that you have, to be able to be in the situations that you are, to be able to face the things that you do.

It hasn't been easy for you.

And you have freaking, like tooth and nail, fought this shiz and you have done it, and you're here and you have more optimism, you have more hope. You're not the same person that was sitting here a year ago, and that's just testament to your freaking hard work and the people around you and the people you've surrounded yourself with.

But you did that, all of it. You did it. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for.

Coming, happy to be here always.

Well there you have it, guys, Thank you so much

Or if you live.

Overseas, go to dub dub dub dot the Voices of Hope dot org for a list of international helplines. Remember that no matter what it is that you're facing, no matter what it is that you're going through, that in all things, hope is real and change is possible.

I'll see you guys next week.