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It took me.
A while to realize that I wasn't happy, and I was very blind to that. He looked at me and he said, one more time. Let's just try one more time. It's not always going to be this way, and you have to stick around to see that through.
Hey, guys, welcome back to another episode of Hope Is Real, the podcast. The podcast designed to help you feel a little less alone, a bit more inspired, and of course a lot more hopeful. Now, today's guest is one that I know that I always say this that I'm very excited about it, but it's because it's very true, and I'm very excited about every single guest, but this one. This person is one of my closest friends. It's someone that I met on TikTok. If you're on TikTok, you've
probably seen this person before. Anna Muller. Anna's story went viral last year. I think it was a story of a paramedic that saved Anna's life when they were struggling at their worst kind of point, at the point of not wanting to be here anymore. And it tells the crazy story that led up to that moment and everything that has happened since Anna went through a divorce, got diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and then decided to share all of these struggles publicly in order to try and help people.
And Anna, like I said, is one of one of my best friends at someone that I met on on social media, which I know don't talk to strangers on social media, but this is one that worked out. We've been able to travel together. We have a thing of going to horror nights on Halloween. I don't know why, I'm terrified at all times, but we do it and
we're going again this year, of course. But this episode is one that Anna is so raw and is so real about the struggles that they faced, everything that they went through, and also just the reality of what it is to live with mental illness, to live in a survival mechanism, to live kind of constantly on edge. But the bravery that Anna has shown the ability to tell the story in such a beautiful and meaningful way. And I will, of course, as always, put a trigger warning
on this episode. Anna does talk about suicide attempts by Paula and all of that kind of thing, So please, as always, if you need to take a break, come back to it, call it text to help line, a friend, a family member. You are not in this alone, but Anna's story is coming up right after this. Anna, Welcome to Hope It through the podcast. Oh my goodness, it has been a minute. We've been trying to get you on since season one and then season two, and now here we are season three.
And you'll meet it only two seasons later. But we met it will.
I think our calendars just consistently we're clashing.
But I know they were just like we're not working together.
But I'm glad that this is happening now because we can talk about before I get into literally anything else in this episode. Major news. You have a ring on your finger. You are engaged. Yeah, yeah, what the heck?
I need to tell everybody because I think that Cameron has set like a standard that everyone should be following to the point that he messaged me asking for permission, like me, your friend on the other side of the world, asking for permission and being like I assume you're okay with this, Like if I propose to Anna, and I'm like, yes, yes. It was the hardest secret I've had to keep, Like I just, oh my goodness. But we will talk about that soon because I've got so many questions and there's
so many stories that will go into it. But first of all, let's just literally start all the way back to where we met. Social media it's a big thing. And I remember starting to see you on my TikTok and being like this person's cool and following you. But you had seen girl on the bridge before social media, right, yeah.
Before I was even online, Like I was not doing anything online.
That's wild. And then you join TikTok. What made you join TikTok?
Not the way most people would think. I like, when I joined, I was going through it. I was in a very rough space. I think it was shortly after I came out of the hospital, actually, and I was so frustrated with like the mental health, like how that was portrayed in media.
Which like not really at all.
So I literally just set up my phone and recorded during my mental breakdowns and just talked to my camera and but.
We're like, wait, this is me.
I'm also having a breakdown over this, like I'm not alone, And so it started really crazy like that, but then.
Turn into a whole different thing.
And I'm so grateful that you did because it meant that we got to meet. I can't remember who slid into whose dms, but there was some form of DM sliding that happened.
I don't remember either.
I just I remember the first time we met was in La. Was it yes?
La? Yeah?
It was La. It was La La. And then we went to New York and then we did LA again. We have the tendency to be going to horror nights, which is our favorite thing to do. I love horror nights. There's much footage of both of us just losing it and you nearly breaking my hand, and some of the horror houses.
And knocking us to the floor.
Yeah.
Well, because we're small as well, and so these massive guys with the chainsaws were just like bloody chase us around all the time and leave everyone else alone, just be following us through. It was terrifying, and yet we just kept going back because.
Cursed feel good scary said something about us. I.
Yeah, but it's not think about that too much. You can't overthink that.
Hey.
I obviously your story is has been widely known online. You've been very very open about it and the things that you've been through. But I would love to kind of go right back to the start, what was your childhood?
Like, Oh, that's a question.
And I say that because there's so much duality in it. I had so many great moments in my very young childhood that I remember and I loved, I'm very grateful for, but I had so many painful ones, and unfortunately those ones to go out a lot more and a lot of us. I actually didn't realize until I went to therapy and processed everything that happened in my childhood, and I was like, okay, so everything adds up. You know, I was a kid who had normal kid behaviors. I
was a kid. The issue was it was mishandled and I was failed in a lot of ways. And I think at six I saw my first psychiatrists really just from behavioral issues. But again they were more behavioral issues because I wasn't being helped. I was very misunderstood and
I wasn't being seen. And I remember I actually recently found those files from my psychiatrist when I was six, never got to read them before until now, and I remember reading them and the psychiatrist describing me at that time, and he said, you know, he described me as anxious, which I knew, but He also said I had learned helplessness, which shook me because.
I don't know how a six year old has.
Learned helplessness, and I really had to like look into that, and basically, it's like, you go into so many difficult, stressful events where you don't have control and you don't have a voice and you can't help yourself or it's being taken away from you, that you under you start to understand that it's not worth trying, like there's no point in trying, so you just stop.
And that was in your files at six years old.
Yeah, wow, yeah, that's that is not even something I can comprehend that as a six year old.
A professional can sit you down and you are presenting so much in a way that that is what they are seeing, right, this?
What that?
So what do you think you were kind of like early signs were that there were behaviors, that things weren't quite okay.
I really struggled academically, and that was noticed as soon as.
I entered school, you know, first grade.
I was getting help academically, and that really wasn't because I wasn't trying or not understand these concepts. I just learned outside of the academic box, which is common.
For a lot of people.
I didn't learn the standard way, and I really struggled to conform to that, and that's where help was pushed onto me in a way that made it was good intent, but it made me understand myself as broken and something needed to be fixed. So things really started going downhill, I would say third grade and then just kind of I feel like intensified up until my early twenties.
Do you remember like a key moment when you realized, like, I'm not I'm not normal and comparable you know what even normal is where you realized that your brain was working differently to your peers. Was it like a key moment that stands out to you for that?
I would say it was sometime closer to third grade as well. I was being pulled out of the classrooms a lot. I was seeing different kinds of therapists like speech pathologists, I was seeing tutors. I was having people come into the classroom to be there to support me. I'm again, I'm sure it was good, intense, but I was seeing all these different services that were being given to me, and I would made me feel so different, And that was really when it sunk into my brain.
I was like, I'm different, and not a positive way.
What impact did that have on your teenage years?
A huge one, A huge one, And I like get so frustrated looking back because I was like, there were so many things that could have been done differently to prevent what happened after that, you know it that kind of translated into bullying later on, and then trauma. It was like a mesh of just really horrible events all at the same time. I remember I was like thirteen, so that was my first sexual assault at thirteen, and that's when again.
I say it's bullying, but it's very hard for me to.
Describe it that way because sometimes you think of bullying and you think of people just saying mean things or making you feel bad, And for me, it was, you know, people were coming to my home and destroying it. We had the police at my home frequently. I was getting death threats, I was getting suicide encouragements.
It was.
That really really messed me up, and I was very very unwell. So as I was, I turned into a teenage addict essentially, like I had so much, so many distortions about myself and genuinely believed I was a broken, horrible, horrible person who was not loved, and I, as a young teen, I couldn't tolerate it. I didn't know what to do with that I had. I never learned those coping skills or how to regulate that. So drugs were the only thing that were there to make me feel like, okay for a minute.
How old were you when you first had your first substance?
Thirteen?
Wow?
Thirteen years old. If you could talk to the people that were sending you those death threats encouraging you to take your own life now, at the age that you're at, if you could face them head on, what would you say to them.
I'm not angry, I think that's the thing.
I feel bad that they were in a place that they were able to be so cruel to someone else, right, because you think of people who do cruel things to others and are hateful, and those things were taught, you know, like, people don't just come out of the womb being mean.
I wasn't always that way. I was angry for a long time, but that was also very toxic to me, and I just I feel bad for them that they were in a place where something happened to them that they were there and that's kind of how that resulted for them. But it took a lot of a lot of therapy for me to get to a place where I'm not angry anymore.
The maturity in that is phenomenal. I think, you know, I spend a lot of my time with high school students, and the message that we always put out is that usually bullies have a bigger bully in their life and that's what makes them feel like it's an okay or
an appropriate behavior. And to get to a place where, even though the impact it had on you literally nearly cost you your life, alongside a whole bunch of other things, to be in a position of understanding that the common saying of her people hurt people is something that's so different to just hear the sentence and then to actually believe it and to walk with that and to have that kind of forgiveness almost is a completely different thing.
And like I know that you know your teenage years very kind of similar but very different as well to mine. Of realizing that it was so different to what a lot of people grew up with. And I used to get so jealous of, like other people just living their best lives and like going on family holidays or waking up and being happy and being like, why can't I have that? When you started using substances, did you feel like that was like helping you escape what was going on in your head?
Very temporarily? It never lasted, if anything. I mean, alcohols are depressent. It that one, that one really spiraled me. It was super temporary, and I immediately like bounced back into my other mental spirals, you know, it just and that translated to so many other mental health things where you know, I was engaging in other behaviors like self harm behaviors and then I was just in the hospital often. So like, yes, it took the edge off momentarily, but it never lasted.
It never lasted for long.
Did that obviously? When you started at thirteen and then kind of went through or teenage years, were you starting to try and experiment with different kinds of drugs as you were going on?
Yeah, yeah, so it's like at thirteen I had my first drink, But actually alcohol never ended up being something I had an issue with, which is funny, especially now when I say I'm sober, people associate sober with alcohol when really what happened for me was I quickly went to things that were harder because I that wasn't enough. So I did that, and then I did start experimenting
with really anything I could get my hands on. But I did have very specific like drugs of choice that I fell into more so than others, and those kind of like became my normal.
What do you think you could say to people to help, especially like family and friends of people who are addicts, to understand how those behaviors and reliance on substance can form, because I think that society has already kind of boxed addicts into being one thing. But no one is born and goes, I'm going to do this one day and like that. It's just not that's not in the human nature, right, Like that's something that has come from needing an escape
or needing to feel something else. Like what would you say to people who do are in that kind of more judgmental phase and don't yet understand how someone could get to that point.
Yeah, I think it's really important to know that no one, like like you said, no one wakes up and it's like I want to be an addict. You know, for some people it can start with experimenting with you know, it does happen with kids who are in middle school, high school. You know, drugs are around, drugs are prevalent. Some kids try it here and there, but a lot of times with addicts is they seek it out as
a way to cope with pain. That's why typically you know, when you see an addict, they have like a typically a dual diagnosis right where they have they're an addict, but they also have depression, anxiety, bipolar, huge amounts of trauma PTSD, like these things coexist so frequently that it's not people don't quite understand with addicts that these are people who are really really hurting and they're not being
resistant to be mean or to be difficult. They genuinely that's their way of handling things, and most of it comes from huge, huge amounts of pain and really not knowing where to place it.
Do you or you've been very open online about getting diagnosed with bipolar, do you remember kind of what the process of that was. Were you diagnosed differently before you got the bipolar diagnosis, because I know that that can often manifest in ways that might mimic other mental illnesses. What was your process of getting that diagnosis, and then how did it feel when you did get that diagnosis.
I didn't get that diagnosis until I was twenty six, twenty seven, but I can absolutely pinpoint when it really started, and I was twenty two, so I got it much later. And I never got misdiagnosed for anything that was never even on my radar. I didn't even think about that. So getting diagnosed was I mean, it was a difficult reality, but also a big relief in a way because it made so much sense, Like it made me understand that
I wasn't like a crazy person. I had something that was impacting me that explained why I was behaving the way I was, because it was so confusing, you know, when I would come out of these episodes, it was like that.
Like that wasn't me. I don't know how that happened.
So there was a lot of relief that came with it because I could treat it. It was treatable and I could help myself, and that took such a whet.
Off of me.
Yeah, I fully understand that. I felt like I felt similar when I got the ADHD diagnosis of going, oh my gosh, all of these things that I thought was just like wrong with who I am. It's just an illness, like my inability to reach out and remember that people exist if they're not in my everyday world, or forgetting everything and never finishing tasks like I was like, oh
my gosh, this makes so much sense. And obviously you went through so much in your early years and then your teenage years, and then you got married, and then you had a kid, and then you imploded your whole life, and you did so on the internet so that everyone could see it. Can you tell the people that are listening that maybe have not heard the story before, or maybe haven't seen it on social media. You get married, you have a kid, what happens?
You know?
I did the I did the marriage thing, I did the kid thing, and it took me a while to realize that I wasn't happy, and I was very blind to that for a long time.
You know.
I developed postform depressions soon after I had my son, so that I'm sure contributed to how unhappy I was.
But I remember.
I almost nightly had to go on drives for hours at a time. I would drive by myself, really late at night, and it was the only way I could prevent panic attacks.
I was so tired of suffering.
I was so tired of upbringing that I stopped it in the most drastic way I possibly could, which essentially was asking for a divorce. I moved back into my parents with my son. I came out to everyone of the same day because I kind of had to. I quit my job. I had nothing, I'd have a cent to my name. I just left and that, even though I had nothing and there was so much loss with that, at least I was alive, Like that was my win.
At least I'm alive and the most terrifying thing I've done and the most painful thing I've done, but looking back into hindsight, like I would have a hundred percent do it all over again.
There's a story that has gone so viral online every time that you've told it, and I think it's so
impactful because it resonates with so many people. And you obviously you were in this process of like you said, you were going to these intersections you I mean, you just so blatantly said that it was either imploded your life or you were going to die, which is such a massive, massive statement and I think is just shows how much pain you were in this this viral story that you've told for maybe people who haven't heard it before.
Was this something that happened before you? Basically I keep saying imploded your life because that's the phrase that you've seen online before you before you did that or was it after.
I So the incident with the paramedic, that the big viral, long more time story that happened while I was still with my ex.
Can you tell us the story, what happened, what led up to it, And I guess the story up to the words that ultimately changed and saved your life.
I was in the depths of my postpartum depression and that actually amplified my bipolar disorder. So those were really big things that were happening at the same time, aside from already being very miserable in my life. I you know, I had been passively suicidal at that point for like over a year, and.
No one noticed.
I don't know how no one noticed, and I tried very hard to make it noticeable, to do anything I could to ask for help without explicitly being like I want to die, because those are very hard words to verbalize.
So I did my best.
When I went to my last therapy session, and I don't think I could have been more clear about where I was at and was not heard, and that I went into that session knowing like this is my last effort, this is the last time I'm going to try. And after that, I'm I can't do it. And he let me leave, He let me walk, and I was so defeated, and I was like, no one sees me, No one
sees me. So I drove home, and halfway through my drive, I started hyperventilating very quickly and to the point where I just wasn't it wasn't safe for me to drive.
And as I'm.
Trying to find a place to pull over and like hyperventilating, it's hard for me to see. I'm having this full, full blown panic attack. And I drive over this inner pass and I see this huge bridge, and I pulled over. I pulled over at the nearest parking lot, and I think I sat there for a good like five minutes, just panicking, staring at the wall. And the weirdest thing I randomly looked up into my rear view mirror and my son's car seat in the back, which was empty.
Because with my mom, I feel like I always have to clarify that. But I saw his car seat and I was like, fuck, Like, I so badly don't want to be here, but I have a kid, and in like thirty seconds of courage, I super fast picked up my phone. I mean it helps that I was a little bit in like a blackout phase with my panic attack that I was not thinking clearly, but I just picked up my phone and I dialed nine one one, and I I struggled to you remember what I said.
I essentially it was like, you have to come here now, Please send someone out, and they did.
They came very quickly, which I'm grateful for. Now.
By the time they got there, I was still panicking. They helped me get out of my car, they sat me down on the curb, and I'm sobbing. I'm having a hard time breathing. At this point, they're just taking care of me physically. They're getting my breathing under control, They're getting my blood pressure under control, they're getting my
shaking under control. And eventually, when I kind of came out of that, we were able to have a little bit more of a conversation and I came down from that panic attack, and I remember being like I can't.
I can't do this.
And I think I just repeated that, I don't even know how many times, over and over again. I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this anymore. And I remember the paramedic was like level with me at this point. He was like squatting down and made very direct eye contact with me. And that's where this viral line came from. Was he looked at me and he said, one more time, Let's just try one more time. And that was the first time I felt seen in
over a year. That was the first moment that someone saw me and broke it down into a piece that felt manageable, because the pain and feelings are so big that you don't know what to do with it, and it's really hard to process and regulate. But he broke it down for me in such a simple way and saw me in such a simple way.
That I became willing enough.
To go with them and help myself. And I think that if he didn't say that, I don't know that I would have come with them.
I just it makes me emotional every single time that
I hear it, for multiple reasons. I think seeing you know, the photos and the videos of you and your son now and going, oh my gosh, this kid still has you here because of that thirty seconds of courage, that thirty seconds where you pecked up a phone and you asked for help, This one moment that meant that this kid still has you here and when I get to see the incredible things that you do now and the life that you get to live, and the statement that I feel like both of us often say of like
you haven't met everyone who's gonna love you yet, Like Cameron wasn't in your life yet, and you had no idea that there would come a time where you would know that kind of love, where you would know that life can be so shit that no matter what it is that you're facing, that there's just always hope. And I think the courage that you had to share that story is massive and it's one that has just helped
millions of people. And I still to this day keep seeing, you know, videos of people who've got the tattoos of it done, and like the statement is really stuck with people. Why why do you think that one sentence of let's just try one more time has resonated with millions of people around the world.
I think it comes down to that aspect of taking it like in such small pieces, because again, like when you're in a place where you don't want to exist, where you don't want to be here anymore, you're dealing with a pain that is huge, that is not manageable, and that doesn't feel tolerable, and it's really hard to know what to do with that, Like what do you do when you feel like you don't want to be here anymore and you don't want to try, and you
don't want to help yourself, you know, Like it's people don't know what to do with that, and that's so valid because it's such a big and hard thing to manage.
But that phrase.
Made it possible for me to feel like I could manage one single moment and it wasn't all of it. I didn't need to fix the whole thing, but I could maybe hang in for one day, like maybe I can hang in there for the rest of the day.
And I think.
That's really helpful for a lot of people to hear, because again, it is so big, but we can condense it, we can condense it, and we can start with one day, like let's focus on today.
That's it. We're not worrying about the future. We're not worrying about the past. We're going to do.
Today and then we'll figure out tomorrow when we get there. And I think that perspective of making it super small and tangible when things are huge, it is kind of you know, one of the only ways for people with that much pain to feel like they can hang on is one day, one time, one moment, one second, one hour at a time, however small.
You need to break it down.
If you were standing outside that car, if you could say anything to yourself, what would you say.
That's such an emotional question, Jazz.
I'm sorry, I'm gonna make myself emotional with it, but I literally just physically picturing it of like that intensive crisis that you're feeling that in that moment, this is never.
Going to change, and you all these years later just being the third person standing outside watching this happen. Because there are people right now right that are in that space. What are you saying to yourself? It's as you're sitting in that car, I.
Think a couple things, you know, One it's not worth it.
It's not worth it, and two that.
It's not always going to be like this, It's not always going to be like this, And at the time, it felt like the end of the world and I couldn't see past that. I was not able to see past that. But if I was able to understand that it wasn't always going to be like this, I might have been a little more inclined to help myself because I didn't believe it would get better in any way. So if I could really sit down and look at
myself and just be like, this isn't worth it. It's not always going to feel this way, It's not always going to be this way, and you have to stick around to see that through. Otherwise you're taking away that opportunity from yourself. And that wasn't a thought that I think that was even evile to create for myself at that time.
I feel that so deeply. I think when you've been in that space of literally life and death and believing that there's no possible way out to I feel like to then even just make it to the next birthday is so wild and I feel like, I don't know if it's the same for you. But even throughout my teenage years, like never believing that I would make it to my twenties and then suddenly it's like, oh, I have to like adult now, and I don't know how to do that because I didn't think I was going
to be here and I haven't planned for that. But the thing that I always say is that like, as long as you're still breathing, there's still hope for change. And I think that just rained so true through both of our stories and through you in that moment and even all throughout your childhood and your teenage years, Like I just want to reach through the screen and just hug little Anna who I feel like even you're going through like the schooling system and you're realizing these behaviors
that are developing. I remember one of the most powerful things that my therapist ever said was jazz, the behaviors make sense, Like you did the best that you could
given the situation at the time. And I think for so long there was so much self hatred of like and being so angry at myself for these behaviors and the way that I would lash out and the things that I would do, and being like, why are you doing this jazz, Like you're so stupid, and then being like, oh, these things came from somewhere like this little kid who was just trying to protect themselves, who was just trying to feel loved in a world that is so chaotic
around them. And so, I mean, I'm just so profoundly proud of you, and I'm so thankful that the world has you hear and that you've been willing to just share your story and share your voice because there are so many people that are struggling that feel the same way, that feel misunderstood, that feel misrepresented, and to just know
that there is so much hope is just phenomenal. And I'm so glad that you made the decision to share this online like it's I know it's not an easy thing, and I know that you've been met with a lot of hate, just purely from when you came out and even now that you're engaged, and I see it all and I just want to bloody reach through the screen sometimes and just brush someone when I see these comments. But the bravery you've had is just incredible, and I
will never forget. Just to kind of slightly transition that at I think we were at Universal Studios, one of the bloody theme parks that we went to, and you decided to film a video, and it was one of the videos that was like was it from the one of the like we don't talk about Bruno songs, not that specific song, but whatever the secret one was. And you turned to me and you told me something that
the world didn't know yet. And my reaction in that video is my raw and real reaction, and I am so incredibly glad that it was captured because it was around the moment that you met Cameron, something that would have never happened, a person you would have never met had your story ended that day. And I just need you to talk us through, talk the people through, did what happened? How did you meet?
What?
Just tell us tell us the story and I will tell us the story.
I will talk about the story forever. It's my favorite. I think, you know, to first touch on the hen around coming out. I think that comes from just so many miscons conceptions about gender sexuality. And in that video, I even told you like that was me telling you how things were evolving for me. And as I did that, you know, I was dating here and there, but nothing was sticking. I was really really having a part time connecting and I thought something was wrong with me.
I remember it was.
Two weeks before I went on my first date with Cameron that I remember talking to my therapist and I was like, maybe it's just like not meant for me, Like maybe I'm not capable of love because I've tried so hard and it doesn't work, Like maybe it's just not for me. And it was around that time that Cameron and I met up in person, so we met on a dating app, and at the.
Time him and I were both very.
We were not seeking anything serious. We were both very overcoming at that time, but we got along really well over our messages via text and we're like, oh, why not, Like let's just meet up, Like what's it gonna hurt?
And Cameron and I will talk about it this.
Day that we both can clearly identify that after that date.
And it's so funny because he called all.
Of his friends after that date and I was talking to my friends after that date, and we were both like, I don't know what's happening, but I feel like this is it.
And that's crazy for me to say.
It was crazy for him to say because all our friends knew we were so avoidant and so hyper independent.
So we both left.
Shocked and it was so different, and I never ever believed in that, Like I was one hundred percent of those people who were like, people are exaggerating love, like no one actually loves someone that much. That's not real. This fairy tale loves stuff like love at first sight, that's real. Like fully fully believed that. And then in that moment, I feel like everything I knew about love and connection with another human just he threw that right up the windows so quickly, And that said so much.
That said so much.
I remember you first telling me about him, and even me, I was just amazed at the way that you were talking because I was like, I know you, and I know you very well, and you don't talk about people like this, like this is not something that you do.
And seeing like that, even just the cute, freaking videos that you guys make online, and just constantly being like, oh, like, if your story had ended that day, camera would still just be walking around the avoidant type, not like you literally haven't met everyone who's gonna love you yet and you are living proof of that. And then you have this man who then asks your friends of he can propose to you. And I just need to point this out. One I was so close to booking flights to coming
over for the surprise engagement. However it was going to be forty hours of travel each way, so like eighty hours all up, and I was like, I really do love you Anna, but I will come over for the wedding, And so I got face timed into it and he proposed off camera. You guys were just like you just moved out of frame. And so when you came around and you had I was like, did you say yes?
Like I didn't see it. I didn't see what happened, but obviously you did and you got engaged and you get to live a moment and I guess a section of your life that you would have never thought possible. And I really love seeing the kind of stuff that you post around how understanding and helpful Cameraon has been through your mental health journey, because it's not just something that immediately goes away or like is there one day and has gone the next, Like, it's this ever evolving
process and journey. And to have someone that understands that and is willing to sit with you through that. How did you first like explain to Cameron what had gone on and what your mental health was and kind of the stuff that you struggle with. Was that a hard conversation to have?
Typically it is, but like again, with him, everything was so different. And I don't know if it was because I wasn't looking for anything serious. I felt comfortable to just like throw everything out on the table. I told him I had bipolar two via text before we got together, and I think a lot of that was because I wanted to show all my cards so that if you're going to run, like, do it early, because I don't
want to get attached. But he never thought anything like he was just like, okay, cool, I need ADHD and we're just like cool, okay, so we.
Both have these diagnoses.
Great like no judgment and even beyond that, he followed up with questions.
He was like, what does this look like? How do people support you?
Like? What do you need in these moments? Like how can I recognize these moments? And just worked so hard to understand me instead of judging me and making me feel bad for showing up with these symptoms that I just I can't control.
It was such a different.
Approach that I felt incredibly safe and comfortable to share and disclose basically anything like there was not a moment that it was hard.
That is phenomenal and such a testament to his character and also just your real lifeationship that you felt like you were able to do that. And I'm really interested for maybe people who have never experienced living with bipolar. I think that again, it's another thing that has a lot of stigma that's been attached to it from society that people like know what it is, but they don't
actually understand. Can you explain from the lived experience kind of perspective what it is like living with bipolar.
I think people hear bipolar and they think of I think a lot of the extremes that you see in movies.
And that's what I thought too, And that's why I thought.
I never considered that I had it, because I was like, I'm not doing like that crazy stuff, like I'm not jumping off of like roofs and like hallucinating, you know, like that's how the media portrayed it.
So that never crossed my mind. But so there's bipolar.
One and there's bipolar two, and they look different, and I have bipolar two. So for me, I would and this is unmedicated, because medicated me is a completely different version so if I was not medicated, it would look like a three month stint of deep, deep depression. Like I'm talking, I can't get out of bed, I can't take care of myself. The suicidal thoughts are very loud. I'm hopeless.
I could not function as a human being. I could not function.
And then you wake up one day and a switch slips and you turn into this like productive, confident, happy version of yourself that is really like confusing, but with like bipolar two. So it's it's called hypomania with bipolar two, which is a less extreme than mania that comes with bipolar one. So for me, I'm crazy productive, I don't really sleep. I'm I remember like rearranging my furniture at three am for like three hours for what I don't know,
I just did. And you know, there are there is some aspects of reckless behavior, like there were times where I about like a thousand dollars appliance.
I didn't need to do that, like that was just reckless spending.
Or I just like glorified confidence where I'm like I'm the best, like but.
Really over the top.
So it's such it's like two opposite extremes and you bounce back and forth, and if you don't know what it is, it can be very exhausting. It can be very very confusing, not only for you, but from the people on the outside who are watching it, very confusing, especially if you can't even communicate what's happening because.
You don't know.
Yeah, I thank you for giving that explanation. I think so many people just even the bloody phrase of just like oh, just snap out of it, or like just can't comprehend or think of just being lazy when you can't get out of bed, and it's just it's just
not the case. And so this is why stories like this is so important and why I'm so thankful that we have such a quite large community of people that are sharing their stories, and that we get to be a part of that, and we get to see other people kind of coming through and sharing these stories of hope. And I would really love to know kind of obviously you had this not just a moment. There was a lot of times that were really really really hard for you.
But to go from the person who was thirty seconds away from not being here to where you are now, can you identify some like k things that helped you get from A to B because obviously I think people can sometimes hear these stories and be like, this is where I am now and relate to that, But then they see you now and they're like, but how how did you do it? What are some key things that helps you get from from THEA to where you are now?
I think a lot of different things, and it was a combination of things. And it also just wasn't like a complete upward trajectory, you know, like it was an incredibly.
Bumpy road, and there were so many moments.
After that that I would go through a period of time where I didn't want to be here. That was not the last time, but learn like every time I went through it though, I learned to handle it better.
And being really consistent with therapy, being really consistent with asking for help and priority tizing myself was really really important, and also not beating myself up if I hit a low again, because I used to hit a low and I'd be like, cool, we're doing this again, Like I'm not going to try because I already know what's going
to happen. I'm going to end up back in the hospital, and it's a repeating cycle that's going to happen over and over and over and over again, and I think that was some of my helplessness kind of coming in. So there was the therapy, the medication, the support, but then there was a really really big shift in my mindset that had to happen and in a mindset where I felt like I could take control. And I think that was really a moment where I took my power back.
That was essential for me to help myself. Was feeling capable of helping myself and getting there takes practice.
You know, you don't get there overnight. You don't have these.
Distortions and then suddenly change it. You know, like, that's not how bit of affirmations work. It took a lot of practice and consistency and repetition to really work on myself and prove to myself that I could do these things, that I had control, that I could take my power back, that I could overcome these really hard things, even if the road was really bumpy. You just you can't give up when shit hits the fan, because it's life, and shit is always going to hit the fan. It's always
going to happen. Things aren't going to work out the way you want. All the time, and I had to learn how to navigate that, I had to reteach myself how to be regulated, how to cope, and I had a lot of different resources that I used for that, but I really had to learn. I had to teach myself because I didn't know how to do it, and that took a lot of time. It did not happen in a year or two years. I'm still learning every day.
You know, like I'm not a perfect person. I still have moments where things slip up and I have to pick myself up again. And I think it's always going to be that way, because that's just the human experience. But when you can shift your mindset into a way of like, Okay, this is really hard right now, but I know I'm going to be okay, and I know it's not always going to be like this, and I
know I'm capable of helping myself. I don't think i'd be able to be where I am now if I wasn't able to shift my perspective in what I was capable of doing for myself.
I think that's so incredibly important, and I know that there was It was kind of a similar thing for me where I began to realize that so much of my healing was going to lay in my own decisions, the moments where I would want to run pulsively go and do something and just go right now in this moment where this impulses come, like I have the choice for that to not be the reality, Like same as you're like, you know the process, you're gonna bet up in hospital again, Like you have a choice right now,
And not saying that it's easy like at all, but all of those little choices, the choices to pick up the phone and message someone, the choice to not put on sad music and make self feel worse and let it dwell, but like actively try to do something else. And there is times where it just comes in waves and it's harder to do those things. But this is why I'm always so big when people come up to me and they say, like, Jazz, you saved my life, and I'm like, no, Like I didn't do that. All
I did was go, hey, there's another way. You are the one that made these decisions. You're the one that chose to fight. And I think that's so empowering for people to know that, like these other external things can be a part of your healing can help you, and songs and artists and all these things are a part of it. But at the end of the day, you
are the one that makes those decisions. And I'm so glad that you made those decisions over and over and over again, because it means that I get my friend here, it means that the world gets you. It means that your son gets you, and Cameron does and I'm just so incredibly grateful that you are here with us and that you are in a position where you are sharing
your story. And you know, this podcast is called Hope is Real, and I think your life is just so evident of that, and I would love to know, just kind of as a final question, what does the word hope mean to you?
I think hope to me means the possibility for change, possibility for recovery, possibility for better experiences, a better.
Life, possibility for things to.
Get better, for you to get better, you know, like it's not black and white, like hope is always there. And I think hope is kind of like this space that if you choose to step into it, you give yourself the opportunity to have more possibility, right Because I also think having hope is a mindset and a choice to believe that you can have that. You know, it's
like similar to how can you change your perspective? You know, if you can believe for just a moment that there's hope, you are leaving the door open essentially or good things to come and allowing or good things to come.
Gosh, I just I love you. I am so grateful to have you in my life and that you've been willing and we could finally make our calendars and schedules work. To come on. I know that you're very busy and you're doing a million things, and you've got a kid and you go. You just you've got so much going on in your world, and so for you to take the time to come and to chat on here and to be able to inspire the people that are listening to know that one thing right that no matter what
it is that you're facing, that hope is real. So thank you for fighting, thank you for choosing to stay, thank you for choosing to share your story, and for being such a cool friend. And I'm so excited for you to get married. And I don't even care if you're like eloping, I will be there, Okay, So you just tell me when where. If it's a wedding, if it's a loping, I don't care. If it's forty hours away, I will be there because I am so excited. But
where where can people find you? Where can people follow you? Not physically find your house, obviously, but where can people find anna? Yell?
We just hand out my address for you, guys.
I address, my bank account, details.
My social Security number. No, I'm primarily on.
TikTok and Instagram. That's really where I'm the most active. But I do like to work more intimately with people, So I do also do when I want to work with people within the coaching business that I have as well.
So are you taking new clients for that? Or no, what are you taking new clients for that? At the moment.
Yeah, it's kind of like a rolling thing, like as people graduate from the program or as people feel like they don't need more, they've got all they can out of it and they move on, then I'll take in a couple more people.
So it's always kind of going.
How can people get in touch about that if that's something that might be interested in.
So all of my socials have a link on it, which gives you all the resources to either things I'm doing or other resources. But one of those links will basically be a place where you can give me your name, your email, what you're struggling with, and so I can see those and go through and I can respond and offer.
You know, hey, do you want to work together? Is still something you want to pursue because I have space amazing?
Well, Hey, thank you so much again for taking the time to come on this podcast. It really means a lot and I cannot wait to see you again, hopefully soon.
I know, thank you so much for having me. I need you to come back to the States.
Okay, I'll get on a plane right now. I'll just drive to the airport.
I mean you should probably just come here for Horror Nights.
I mean, yeah, we need to. We need to read you horr nights. Yeah, every year. We've done it since we first met, so we're going.
To have to. I feel like if we if we break that chain now, we can't it happens.
Yeah yeah, okay, Well, I will obviously be there for Horror Nights, but otherwise, have a fantastic Christy your day night. I don't know what time is where you are right now, but again, thank you so much for coming on.
Of course thanks for having me.
Well there you have it, guys, thank you so much
for staying and for listening to this episode. And like I've said at the beginning, and I always say, if anything in this episode that's been talked about has brought anything up for you, you feel like you need to talk to someone, then please remember and know that the bravest thing that you can do right now is to talk to someone, is to ask for help, whether that's from a friend, a family member, or if you don't know who to talk to, then if you live in
Altaiola here you can call or text one seven three seven at any time to talk to a trained counselor. Or if you live overseas, go to dub dub dub dot the Voices of Hope dot org for a list of international helplines. Remember that no matter what it is that you're facing, no matter what it is that you're going through, that in all things, hope is real and change is possible. I'll see you guys next week