The Pro-Russ Case With Vinay Killawalla

hear just another perspective. We got to the bottom of a bunch of stuff with Russ. I thought this was really good. Thank you guys as always for your support and enjoy. So so let's look at us, you know, projecting forward, because I a great Lebron looks great. So if Lebron looks great, that's obviously something that you can build on. Because Lebron is a top three or four

player in the world. That's a foundational piece, right Anthony Davis, Like, even if he never shoots as well as he did in the bubble, when he's healthy, he's probably somewhere around the you know, eleventh or twelve best player in the league. Right, So you've got two top twelve players there. That's a

good foundation. So essentially, now this is where I wanted to move to the rust piece because you know, and I'm going to make the case really quickly to you for where I'm at with Russ and why, and then I want you to kind of tell me if you

agree or if you would go in different directions. So as as far as Russ goes like he played actually okay against the Magic, I just didn't care because it was the Magic He actually today I thought was the best game he's had versus a good team, which has been a which has been a consistent issue with him this year. In our bigger games against our better opponents, he's been really bad either either for a pivotal stretch

or for the entire game. Obviously with the all times stinkers like he had against Golden State, in against Brooklyn, and then some other games where he was rough for specific stretches, kind of like the Phoenix Suns game that we had last month. So, like I my main concern is, like I view this game like he had it tonight

against Miami as more of an outlier. I tend to think that most teams have figured out at this phase of his career, if you put a big forward on him, you're you're gonna basically force him to take jump shots because he can't play that same bulleyball game. Although he's had a couple of moments lately, uh, you know, against Aaron Gordon and then he had to he had once a night where he caved in someone's chest. I can't

remember who it is. But the point is that he's for the most part, been rendered ineffective against the really good teams this year. So this is where you run into this awkward situation because Frank, I think has noticed it too, because, especially with his attention to defense, Russ

has had a lot of mental defensive breakdowns lately. He lost the shooter today, he botched a switch a couple of times today, like he just those kinds of mistakes are what has led Frank to pull back on his minutes, and then of late he sat him for significant stretches

of two fourth quarters. So my thing is like, if you don't think Russ fits into your you know, crunch time rotation in the playoffs, then there's no point in keeping him around because then you have attitude issues and you don't want to have like a Andre Drummond type situation where you're in the middle of a playoff series navigating benching a player, you know what I mean, And then you've got Andre Drummond complaining and going on social media and and and and talking about the coach and

stuff like that. I just don't think that's worth dealing with. So my thing is like, if I had a reason to genuinely believe that Russ could contribute and contribute well on both ends of the floor in the actualized version of this team in the biggest moments against the best teams, I would absolutely be in favor of keeping him. But I'm at the point where it used to just be I'd be concerned with his late game decision making, But now I don't think he's good enough in any phase

of the game for it to be worth it. So I think it's better to get off of him rather than to keep him on have it go really south in a playoff series. But where are you at with Russ just in general this season, because I know you've been more positive with him, But do you think he fits into what the actualized version into this team is

And do you see him having success in a postseason run. Yeah, so so, UM, I completely understand your your standpoint when it comes to just kind of what you're describing as to trying to get ahead of a potential situation where, um, you know, like rusts may basically get schemed against where you know the I and I get what you're saying, like, uh, and I think other folks have said this to as well, Like what's stopping another team from just completely ignoring rust

like in a playoff series for multiple games and then just kind of jugging stuff up which then forced his vocal to have to pull them um and all all valid,

vallid things. Um. So I don't disagree with that. I think my general pushback against that has been, um, teams haven't outright done that throughout games, Like even even in close situations in some of the games that we played against competitive teams, they haven't been able to do that because there's this like you know, there's this fundamental nature

and it may happen. That doesn't mean it won't happen in the playoffs, but it's there's a fundamental nature, um, of a basketball player, Like we're regardless of how good how bad the shooter is you're just not going to give them a wide open lane to the rim because you just know that, like something bad could happen if it happens, and so and so Russ has capitalized on

some of those situations. So, UM, I think one of the things you mentioned was Russ has had bad games against playoff teams, contending teams playoff teams, UM, and So I would push back on that a little bit, because there are there have been games, even without bron where Russ has played really well. For example, perfect example is not really well, but has played well enough for us to win. UM. And the Miami game at home in overtime, like Miami was was running all the same actions and

stuff like that that they would normally run. We didn't have run that game. They lost Jimmy Butler I think after that after the first round or first quarter or something like that for his knee or his ankle, and Um, we pulled out the wind and that was a win that absolutely required Russ to be good. Like it wasn't a game whereas his Anthony Davis took over because Andy Davis was having some trouble to himself against a guy like uh, you know, bam out of bio and stuff,

I got another physical team. And so um the Cleveland game, this is before everybody realized Cleveland's a really good team like they were. They were beating up on teams because they're really good defensive team. Uh, they come to play the Lakers were down by twelve. Third quarter, Braun and Russ go on this crazy run to kind of uh catch up the race deficit. And then what ends up happening is I think Braun and a d just basically spamed their pick and roll like we expected them too.

In the fourth quarter, Lakers win the game. Then the Boston game, back and forth, trading jabs both teams and trading jabs. Eventually Russ erupts off the pick and roll action with uh. And if you remember that game, that was a game where Robert Williams was like dunking over

and Anthony Davis like every single play and stuff. Yeah in the first half, and the Russ explodes in the third quarter, and you know, we end up winning the game and stuff I got and so um, I'm sure there's other games I could probably also pull out to as well. Um, like even the Bucks game. This will be the last one. The Bucks game away uh in Milwaukee.

That was another game we didn't have with Braun. But that was a tightly contested game up until maybe about six minutes left in the game where we kind of let go of the rope as a team. Uh. Russ was he wasn't bad in that game. He wasn't average. He was above average, you know, staying under control and stuff like that. That was a good th HT game

too as well. UM So, my thing is, if you're in the boat that you have to trade Russ, I understand if your logic behind trading Russ now is that you want to get ahead of a situation where he could potentially just kind of be schemed against completely. UM I understand that too as well. However, my only thing is this, if you trade Russ and you don't get another guy who could put pressure on the rim the way Russ has, regardless of how how many turnovers and

stuff like that he's been doing. Um, if you don't get somebody who's willing to put pressure on the rim, you're gonna be like Braun is not going to do it. Like you watched Braun a lot, Like you've seen how much Braun is getting beat up like in New Orleans than he literally got slapped in the face by Jalen Suggs and they did not call a flavor. They just called it a common foul and they just said, oh, yeah,

it's it's cool, like it's nothing like. I don't think Braun physically can keep up with attacking the rim twenty times a game and creating for his his teammates. And we absolutely need somebody to do that, because even Anthony Davis is having trouble doing that on a consistent basis. And so I'm not trying to make an argument that like, oh,

we have to keep Russ for the playoffs. My argument is there's a very specific thing that he's always he's willing to do, which is attacked the rim, even when he doesn't have, you know, a size advantage, or even when it looks like, you know, they're gonna collapse the paint, He's willing to attack the rim and try to make plays for his teammates. I know that we're really mad about his finishing and stuff like that, but my thing

is it does help spell Braun. Like Braun is not shooting the way he is, he's not having the fresh legs that he has if if if there isn't somebody else doing it for us, and that you know, like that was something that we wanted at A then a Stroder last season, and he gave it to us in like some consistent, some inconsistent fashion. And and I think that's a big part of basketball, you know, just putting pressure, constantly applying pressure on the rim. And I think that's

what makes him really really important. I will say this too as well. When Anthony Davis and Braun are on the floor, Russ is he stays out of the weight, especially in these clutch situations. He doesn't try to get in their way with whatever play called they want and Braun wants to eye so or or they run thick and roll and stuff I got. So you know, it's hard for me to be mad at him when he's

not hijacking possessions away from those guys. And look, Anthony Davis has had struggled making passing out of double teams, like Russ has been an active cutter. Like that's something

that we haven't had from other players. Um, he's willing to cut and attack the rim and stuff I got when when he gets double teamed and so, like I said, these are smaller things like kind of within the course of the game that we won't see necessarily in highlights because they won't end sometimes in um you know, like a flashy dunk or a layup or something like that. But it has been the difference between wins and losses for some of our games. And so that's just kind

of what it is. I'm not against moving him, but you have to replace what he's actually bringing, which is like even in this Miami game, Braun, Braun and Russ run down the floor. It's like a seven point game. Bron's waiting for the past for us, but Russ realizes that that Carmelo is trailing in the back. He sets up Carmelo for a three. Yeah, you can tell he's stared down Lebron extra long to just to get that

guy to follow him into the way exact exactly exactly. So, I mean, obviously he's going to have, you know, the low lights where you know, liquor fans make fun of him, every every Twitter makes fun of him. Everybody does. But those little lights are that's not indicative of kind of the the amount of effort that he's putting into help a guy like Braun and stuff like that, and so I think that's what Ron valleys. He wants somebody who's

willing to do it because he you know, he's thirty seven. Man, you can't expect him to do all this sort of stuff, and so that that's kind of my logic behind it. Well, you know, I appreciate the perspective that you bring, because it's it's been a lot of me railing on Westbrook on this podcast, like least other gonna be good for listeners to hear a really coherent, uh pro Westbrook case. You know. I think the one thing that I disagree with that you talked about was having to do with

rim pressure. Not because I don't believe in rim pressure. I'm a huge believer in rim pressure. I talked about that all the time. However, I think the idea of Lebron needing or wanting another ball handler to stand at the top of the key and create so that he can rest is less important on this roster and in this era than it was in years past. And a lot of that has to do with the concept of

five out basketball versus vintage basketball. When you're talking about Lebron creating at the top of the key in a screen and roll with Kyrie Irving and it's you know, Kevin Love in one corner and j R. Smith in the other corner, or whatever it is that you have laid out. You're talking about specialists there, and you're not gonna kick to Kevin Love and expect him to do

some sort of dynamic closeout attacking. You're not gonna kick to Kyle Korver or kick to Shane dad of A and expect some sort of a dynamic close out attacking. The idea of five out basketball is everybody's applying rim pressure. The idea of five out basketball is because of the

space that is generated. You don't actually and because everybody can put the ball on the floor and everybody can kind of create their own shot, especially with this group of Laker players that they have, like especially in the future if they make some trades and they keep Milik Monk and they keep Carmelo Anthony, like you have guys on this team to where you know, just di virtue of the spacing and by virtue of just really crisp driving kick basketball, you generate a lot of rim pressure.

And that's been the irony here because as rog has been pointing out as of late, over the course of this Russell Westbrook's slump and in the recent month, you know, it's been a lot of Malik Monk running these kinds of actions and having success. Why because it's five out basketball. There's tons of space, and you know, and just you know in that in that setting you can maximize talent, which is basically what happened with the l A Clippers

last year after Kauai went down. So my thing is, like, you know, fundamentally, I disagree with the idea that Lebron needs this star guy to stand at the top of the key and break everything down because at this point, I think literally about concept even th h T can be that first guy who rips through and gets to the baseline and forces help defender to come over, kicks it to the corner of swing, swing, drive, drive, whatever

it is. Just in this modern concept, I don't think it's as important that said, but I hear what you're saying, like there's there is a version of this that we've seen with Anthony Davis on the floor where Russ is a little bit more relegated to an off ball role.

I think I think I still stand in the in the camp that it would make more sense to bring back functional off ball role players with that salary rather than to tie it up in somebody who at the end of games is gonna have to stay in the corner anyway because he's a little bit too easy to guard in those situations. That's my personal opinion, But I do, like I said, I appreciate you taking the time to explain your side. The one thing I wanted to ask

you before we get out of here. My last biggest concern with the Russ has always been his due before thinking kind of style of basketball, which I think in many ways has carried him throughout his career, you know, in a good way, just in the sense that, like you know, for his entire career, being a bowl in a china shop worked. So I get it. But you know, tonight we had this latest example jump ball. I think it was an eleven point game at the time Lakers

were on a run. Might even have been closer, might have been a seven point game, I can't remember, but but we win the jump ball in literally Russ with absolutely no advantage, with no Lakers down the floor, with three Miami Heat players very much in his way, just tried to cram his way to the basket and ends up turning it over. And we've seen a lot of examples like this over the course of the season. Miss dunks,

poor decisions, poor shots, that kind of thing. I am concerned with the pivotal mistake with us in a big moment, So talk me off of that. Ledge. Yeah, So he's not gonna have the ball like that. That's literally that. That's literally the only thing I could possibly say. Um, I don't think he's gonna have like the ball in

a lot of these situaies like today. I feel like today it was just kind of because we were down by twenty six, like you were prime to get like one of those like Russ is gonna do something stupid because he's just trying to be furious and try to make a curious come back in some compact like he had to play where it was like a two on three and he tried to like take the early advantage um and try to make a kickout plass to Bradley, but Duncan Robinson was like waiting for it because he

knew that Bradley was the only other option that he had to pass to, so he did that thing where he jumped up in the middle of you know, jumped up in the air to make the pass. So then he was screwed, so he only could pass it to

Bradley Duncan, Robinson steels and stuff like that. But I don't think he's gonna have the ball in his hands, Like that's that's genuinely the only thing I could, Like, you know, we had this panic um a long long time ago about Region Rondo, like Region Rondo, like Frank bobil Is putting Region Rondo and asked him to close these games, like we're going to be in trouble because teams are gonna play off of Region now now Rondo.

You know, he was like he hit like one, he go like one for two, one for three, Like he wasn't shooting high volumes the threes, but he was making his threes enough to keep the opposing team respectable. But he was an atrocious finisher, Like he was terrible season. He was so bad, Like you know, it's like what everybody says about Russ's jumpers, like it was a turnover and so like, to some degree I think that he Russ is not It's not that he's going to get

relegated to that role. I think he's gonna get kind of put in that that sort of position, like if if I was brawn and a d and I had to try and guess what they tried to explain to us, like what his role would be. I think they probably pointed out a guy like Region Rondo, or they pointed out a guy like Dennis Schroder, and they said, look, when when it gets tough, just get us the ball. And that was a problem Like that, there was a time where we couldn't even throw an entry pass to

Anthony Davis. So we had to put Region Rondo in the game because he knew how to get the entry pass to Anthony Davis for to Lebron on the post ups. And and I feel like that's the role that he's supposed to be. Like for the first three quarters of the game, we're not looking to Russ to score. Just keep moving the ball, facilitate, push the ball up the floor. When we have the young guys on the floor, find the open man. If you get the open lay up,

you know, make the year open layups. Obviously, that's a separate issue all in itself, which has been better at these last two games, But I just don't see it. I don't see a situation where Braun just says, Okay, Russ, bring us home in the playoffs. I don't see it. And I don't see a situation where, um, he looks at Russ before he looks at Anthony Davis, you know

what I mean, and I look more than Russ. My largest concern has been our coaching and just kind of our very very slow on to take adjustments that our coach is making on the defensive end, especially um. So that's probably a completely separate topic that we we could spend an hour on, but that that's that's really my only pushback. Like I've seen too many games now with even a compromise Braun and a compromise a d where

they just never go to the third guy. They just go to the you know, it's just a two man game over and over and over again. And then from there, you know, make your open shots, put shooters on the floor, defend your position. That's just kind of what it is. I think that's what's gonna happen with this team in the playoffs. Slotting is going to help everything, that's for sure. I mean, you know, when we're looking at talent. You know, the big problem is is you're asking Mellow to do

this much. You're asking Malik Monk to do this much. We're even with Russ, We're asking Russ to do this much. With Lebron, we're asking him to do so much offensively that his defensive effort has crater relative to the season. You know, he's had good defensive games and good defensive moments, but he's had a lot more bad ones this year than he has in recent years. And that's all the

product of the slotting. So your hope is, you know, when you bring in Anthony Davis, everybody slots back a little bit and then all of a sudden your skill

set has a better chance of fitting right. But my thing is, like, this is where Jeremy Grant trade could be so game changing for this team if they could pull it off, or even if it's not Jeremy Grant, even just in Eric Gordon sliding somebody like you know, Avery Bradley, who even in the current slotting with health healthy, Anthony Davis, it really isn't the guy for that job, you know, putting someone who's a very competent NBA player like Eric Gordon in that spot and moving everyone else

down one more slot could go a long way to fixing this. So I'm I'm definitely not a defeatist yet about this roster, but I do think that vibe needs to be reset, and the coach could very well be associated with that as well. I I tend to think that there's been way too much pushed back on the

Frank slander. I don't think. I don't think people outside of Lakers Twitter, Lakers fan outside of Laker fan base, I don't think people that have been casually following the Lakers have any idea just how bad Frank has been this year. Again, again, that's not the only problem, but he's definitely been a problem. Like how do we do? Like, you can't you know, you can't post low lights for coaches, right, Like, No,

there's no single possession that we could post. All we could post like the misshots and the miss cues by our star players. But but I think one thing that you said is very is very key. Regardless of who's on this roster, whether it's Russ or somebody else, the slotting on this team seems to be very out of place.

Everybody is being asked to do more like that this is the biggest issue with Russ, right, Like we know he's been athletically declining as a player, we know that he's scoring wise, he's challenged as a player, Like since his MVP season, it's it's been a steady decline. You had the guy from the the Houston guy, Rush Rouge. I think kind of talk to you about them trying to optimize. Like one of the things I've been trying to push back on is like everybody's like, oh, we

have to optimize for Russ. I was like, no, we we don't have to optimize for a guy who struggles to score. Like why are we trying to optimize for him? We should be optimizing for Braun. We should be optimizing for like whatever the strength of our roster are, And if the strength of our roster are roster is you know Mellow can shoot, Monk and shoot, Grieves can shoot, Broun can shoot, then we should be optimizing in that capacity.

Like since Anthony Davis has been out, can you remember a single game that we've played where we've consistently run pick and roll? No, that's and that's my point, Like we're doing this thing where where we keep having these conversations about optimizing for one specific player. Well, if we are going to do that, it's not Russ, it's either Bron or it's a D when a D comes back.

And and that's been my like general pushback when it comes to like the conversations about Russ and stuff like that, Like we're already like we're expecting him to score instead of Anthony Davis. If if Rob Lincoln thought that Russ could do that in case Anthony Davis or Lebron James

went down, he approached this offseason terribly. The entire foundational process of how we went to to decide this is completely wrong and that and that's what you know, you and I have watched a basketball you know, you coach kids like that that play in high school. Like we could compartmentalized skills and say, Okay, I understand why we

have this guy here in this spot. I understand why we have mellow in like that Kuzma role of just kind of scoring UM and stuff like that, because that's what we want to use Kuzma for as a stretch for Um. But when Anthony Davis goes down, we're using him as a small ball five it's just like that's not gonna work, you know, like that's a layup line for the opposing team and stuff like that. And so I think slotting is really really important. I think athleticism

is really really important. And I think if if we can add bodies that kind of helping those two realms, I think what you're describing, which is a very human thing, like the air in the locker room, it will change because you'll you'll know, you'll get consistent effort and you'll get consistent um execution from from guys that are able to do it. So, um yeah, I think I uh, well, we've just crossed over the our marks. So I know, Vanetta, you and I can talk for a long time. Buddy.

We are going to get you back on the show, hopefully sometime soon. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time out of your Sunday to come hang out and talk um so Westbrook with me. I appreciate it. Everybody. This is going to be on dash Radio tomorrow morning at seven am Pacific standard time and be on our podcast feed here in about a half hour. So as always, we appreciate your support. Thanks again be for coming on and we will see you guys after the Nets game on Tuesday night,