Lakers/Pistons Postgame Spaces

It's so funny. Someone tweeted at me underneath something I tweeted earlier and said, Remember, apparently at the end of last podcast, I said something along the lines of like, hey, come back on Sunday because it'll probably be uneventful and we'll have, you know, more time to take callers blah blah, blah blah, And he was rubbing it in my face because this ended up being arguably much more eventful than than the Friday night game. But anyway, ROJ, how are

you doing. Man? How's your Sunday? Did you? Uh? I think you and I had a different idea of how to end of that game was gonna go, but a nice little, nice little positive ending. But I hope you had a good Sunday man. Yeah. I did these three o'clock games, or at least three o'clock. For me being in southern California, it means you can't really do anything for your other part of the day. Right, it's like right in the middle of the day. You can't plan

anything before planning after it. Three hours just chunked right in the middle. This is a good, good game. Man. It was really sorrow and we were texting back and forth what to discussed. We're like, Frank Vogel, Lebron, James, just the nature of the team looking dejected, looking un uninterested for majority part of this game. And then that

fourth quarter absolutely just turned around. I think it was like thirty seven fifteen or something like that they closed the quarter on where do you want to start with this? Because I I think we can start positive at least to start here. There's still a lot of problems with the teams. There's a lot of issues. Lebron, I guess might be ejected here for one game, But where where do you want to kind of start with this? So yeah, so like if I were to like make bullet points

of the key stories of the game. It was funny because about their even in spore tip off, we found out that DeAndre Jordan was being reinserted into the starting lineup and that th h T was being moved to the bench, and there were two interesting things about that one reverting to them going big. And then also th Ht who you know, obviously had a bad game last game, but he certainly had a better case to be with

the starters than Avery Bradley did. And so that was kind of like the interesting little wrinkle there now that seems like so far on the back burner tonight compared to the Lebron basically mailing in the game and then the Lebron ejection situation, which was its whole other interesting thing. And for the record, those two things I want to hit later on because quite frankly, it just it just doesn't deserve to be talked about first for a bunch

of reasons. But then you have this, you know, clear and obvious stretch of the game that lasts that like basically three quarters where the where the Lakers just are giving absolute trash effort, operating in this funky zone and and and just getting absolutely beating everything. Everything got pumped

in every physical matchup, ever, every everything. But then you have them wake up in the fourth quarter, largely driven by Russell Westbrook and then Anthony Davis at the end of the game, which I think is the perfect place to start because what you saw there was Russ and a d giving a ship, which is an expression, which is an expression I use a lot on the show because of the obviously like you can't judge scheme, you can't judge personnel, you can't judge lineups if guys aren't trying,

and you couldn't tell me like, oh, this zone isn't gonna work when I when the guys are not even trying in the zone, you know what I mean, Like, it's hard to get a read on any of that stuff when the guys are mailing it in like that. And what you saw was two supreme talents, Russell Westbrook and Anthony Davis go from coasting through a game aim to trying desperately to win, and all of a sudden, the Detroit Pistons couldn't do anything to stop them. They

couldn't stop him at the rim. They couldn't stop Anthony Davis on the offensive glass they could they literally they couldn't get to the rim and finish on Anthony Davis. It was. It was masterful to see the two of them hit the gas, and so I guess that's where we could start. It's like, and I don't know if it's associated with Frank. I don't know if it's the Stars false themselves, but this team just looks better when it's best players play hard and when they try to

when they try to win the game. And that's just with two of them, with one of them in the locker room. So I mean that that's kind of that that to me is the most interesting phenomenon that happened here tonight. Yeah, again, we don't have to go deep into the ejection or whatever happened with Lebron and Asia Steward, but I definitely think that was a turning point in

the game. Like I totally saw Russ even if earlier early in the game it wasn't efficient if he wasn't scoring it, I when he saw his energy tick up, eighties energy tick up. And not to like move this into Frank Vogel, but like again, a whole bunch of Laker fans and everyone is calling for his job throughout the whole night tonight, honestly, and I know you felt

you felt that way as well. To me, like firing Frank Vogel is very similar to like the take DeAndre Jordan out of the starting lineup, Like it solves some issues, but it opens up these these other problems on the team as well, where I'm just don't want to go there there, and look, his job is probably saved tonight. We'll see going forward. But a D and Russ turned into superstars in the fourth quarter of Who They Are. A D looked like the best defensive player in the world.

And again, this is Detroit, one of the worst teams in the league. And all those caveats are fair. But we haven't been a good team either, like you've been saying, right, we've been a bad team for a very long time. Like all wins are important right now. And I thought they really turned it up. Russ's aggression to get to the rim. He got a charge on what he got a charge on one play, but I saw I was fine with that, like just him being aggressive, him attacking.

I like th ht in that lineup, even if he had some questionable decisions. I just thought another guy that can kick out to the A D post stuffs were still there, but it was a lot better. They continue to double one pass away off us, but he cut. We saw Russ cutting like that was stuff, such a concept, but like we were that's what we were begging for right, Like Russ just cut to the rim and he did this night and he got like four layups off of that.

And once they stopped doubling, a D was in single coverage with Jeremy Grant able to get to his spot, get to the basket, a little big gift out. It was just something that we need to see more, man, this type of effort. You talked about four we got punked in the earlier in the game by how many Diallo as well, and I think Russell Westbrook felt that

as well. He's the one that he got dunked on and he saw him scream all loud, and I don't think it was an accident that was on Diallo a D with the big scream after blocking shots and after we sealed the game, like they could tell this game mattered, man, And they just need to see more of this. There's a good team in here somewhere, they just need to find it. To me, I think it wasn't a coincidence either that we started to go on a run with like we took out a lot of the bad defenders.

I thought, you know what I mean, Monk stopped lane, Ellenton stopped playing the only guy out. There was Carmelo who was on fire again tonight and his spot up shooting was huge. Just a good fourth quarter win, and that we talked about after after they at Miami game, where that could have been a spark plug. But tonight they just looked so dejected early, and I thought, this, maybe this is the turning point. I'm not there to

say that yet, but this is an important win. I thought it was really big that they got together and came together to get this one. Because even though I wasn't for the firing or like Frank Vogel, I honestly thought, if they lost this game, to me, if Lebron didn't get ejected tonight, they were lost by twenty. Like, I don't know, do you agree with that? Like that's that's

how I saw this game kind of going. If Lebron didn't get out, if they didn't have any kind of spark to them, the game was going towards where Jeremy Grant was just getting whatever he wanted and we were gonna lose by twenty. But that fourth quarter, man he started switching. Jeremy Grant wasn't able to get to his spots easier. I thought again, THHD was big on both ends. I thought he bothered Grant enough. Uh, and he's gonna be a big part of this team. But yeah, that

was a good fourth quarter. That was a good fourth quarter to kind of build off off if they can. So the reason why I don't think they would have I don't think Lebron was related to the outcome was things got a lot worse after the ejection. They got worse. And then basically what happened was in the start of the fourth quarter, Mello made a couple of threes off of driving kicks rim pressure that Russ created, and then it cascaded into hey, why don't we try to win

this game? You know what I mean? And so like that that that's more my interpretation. That's not that's not to say like Lebron, you know, Uh, Lebron deserved a lot of blame, as did everyone else on the roster for finding themselves in the predicament that they were in. However, I tend to think that that was more an example of holy coward, we're really going to lose to the Pistons tonight. Not ah, Okay, Lebron and Isaiah two had almost gotten a fist fight, So now let's start trying.

I didn't think those two events were tied to each other at all, you know. Um and again, just to put a bow on the positive parts of it, that's kind of the the order of operations. Russ put his head down and got to the room to start the fourth quarter. When he did, when he did, uh, Mello

made a couple of threes and uh. Then at that point Anthony Davis engaged defensively, and then they rode that talent wave and that competitiveness wave to beat an inferior basketball team that severely lacked offensive creation at the end of the game and was leaning on Jeremy Grant and and Kate Cunningham to create everything. So I think, in a weird way, as much as I'm happy about the win and as much as it is an indicator of their competitive spirit, I'm not sitting here and saying like, Okay,

everything's good. Now we came back and beat the Pistons in the fourth quarter. No, those problems still exists. So moving to the Frank piece, because like I texted Roger to be in the middle of the game and I said, frantastic go and and I joked with him that if they won, it would be bad because because it would just delay that inevitable outcome. And I told him I was joking, but there's some truth to that concept, because the reality the situation is is Frank going back to

DeAndre Jordan represents everything that's wrong with this situation. Frank has justified that by saying we need defense and we need rebounding. But as we know, throughout this whole season with DeAndrea on the floor, they've been killed on defense and they've been killed on the glass. So that was never a solution based in reality. That was a that was a fantasy that existed in Frank's head. And then in addition to that, the heavily leaning on a zone, which you and I talked about a lot in the

last pot. You can use a zone two throw a team off out of rhythm by just mixing up looks. The Dallas Mavericks did a fantastic job of this in the two thousand and eleven finals, as we all know. But you can't just run a zone NonStop, especially against good teams, because they'll just figure it out. And there were stretches, especially in the in the third quarter tonight, where Kay Cunningham just completely solved our zone, kicking out

the shooters and making us pay. The point being like, there were just some strategies from Frank tonight that that we're glaringly. You know, they just struck me as a person who was like, things are getting bad. I'm going to revert to everything that makes me feel comfortable as opposed to trying to adapt and solve this situation, you

know what I mean. And then and then when you couple in the effort and focus stuff, which we talked a lot about, like you can't blame everything on effort, but dude, like efforts a real problem here, Like, it's actually a real problem here. This is not like, Okay, if they run the right sets and we put another big forward out there, everything is going to be fixed. No, guys aren't doing their jobs either. That's the real problem. Anthony Davis early in the game was getting destroyed on

box outs by Isaiah Stewart. Lebron James was getting caught ball watching get backcut all the time, making no attempt to help around the basket. Mellow in particular, after having a pretty good stretch of defense there a few games ago, has really tailed off in recent games as a defensive player. The guys aren't bought in, and so this is where I come back to the Frank problem. I don't like the idea of firing Frank either. Everything you say makes

perfect sense. Firing a coach in the middle of the season is asking for chaos, you know, having having a uh, tricking yourself into thinking that David Fizdale or some other random guy is going to fix all your problems. You're right, that's that that that's that's that's completely irrational thinking. However, if anybody gets into the chair and the guys buy back in, meaning they actually commit to doing the job that is asked of them by the coaching staff, it's

better than what we have with Frank. That's just the reality of this situation. It doesn't matter. I have you and I again for everybody who's just joining us in the last few weeks, Roger and I have been doing this. This is our hundred and first episode. We've been doing this for a long time. We are the biggest Frank supporters you'll find out there. I think he's by far the best coach for this team. If they actually were bought in to what they want him to do or

what he wants them to do. But the buy in is gone, and I'm not sure why that's a whole other topic, but the buying is gone. These guys don't listen to Frank anymore for whatever reason, and so as a result, it's untenable. That's just my opinion. It doesn't matter if David Fizdel is a lesser coach. If he gets in there and then when he says, hey, guys, I need you to freaking box out and they actually do it, then he's better than Frank for this job

simply because of the buying. And it's unfair, but that's just the reality of the situation. You know, there's everyone points of the two thousand sixteen situation with David Blatt and Tyler. Is Tyler a better coach than David Blatt? Probably Yeah, as a matter of fact, yes, he absolutely is. But a good a good percentage of that turnaround that

season was associated with changing the voice. When David talked, they looked at him as an arrogant dude from the EuroLeague, who thought he was who thought he was a lot better than he actually was, who thought he was more accomplished than he actually was, and all the NBA pros Net locker room didn't listen to him, But when Tyler got in the chair, they all bought back in and they all started carrying again and it turned around their season. And that that's kind of the way that I look

at this. The chaos, to me, is part of the process to leading towards making that change, to get the group to buy back in. And I know that scares the heck out of people, but that's just kind of where my brain is at right now. Yeah, And I had a whole bunch of notes ready for like the Frank Vogel is probably fired and this is why it probably should have happen, and we can kind of save

the is going forward. And I touched on earlier, like to me, it's the same issue that we're just trying to like plug plug one button in and solve everything. And again, like Frank Vogel hasn't been great some of the rotations, but like what we were playing was not his team, you know what I mean, Like tonight the two big stuff, like DeAndre Jordan is not the best guy for it. He's fitting an archetype that Frank Vogel

wants to play. But Frank Vogel was never a coach that wanted to play guards that can't defend at the point of at tech, that can't do any kind of that can't help on the boards, you know what I mean. And again, like putting effort into a scheme, it's really tough to judge that. But when your stars aren't bought in, like that's a to me, that's a star issue, right, Like, yeah, you can bring someone else in, maybe they'll buy in for a little bit, But to me, that doesn't solve

your problem. Like tonight we saw Russ and a D bought in. Is a makes this a really good basketball team? Like we kicked the Pistons as in the fourth quarter it was thirty seven to fifteen, Like this game that we were blowing out all game, Russ and a D just bought in like that, Like that's a huge turning point to me, And it just shows that that's in there, that's in them. Like Malik Monk is not going to be able to defend, Like it's just that's who he

is as a player. He's this park plug offensive guy. I think that's been pretty clear. Carmelo Anthony, what you get out of him defensively, to me is a bonus just with his shooting that's coming. But like the boden has to come from RUSS, A D and Lebron And again we can you can't fire them. You're you're a thousand percent right. It is not Frank's fault. It is lebron a Navy's fault. But you can't fire lebron a Navy.

It's unfair, but it's a reality. Sure. But I like, just my opinion, I don't think firing Frank all of a sudden gets that Like to me, that's an inner problem within them that they have to get to. Like to me, that's not a fire. The coach's like the Sacramento King just fired Lukewald right, seventeen games in, just fired their coach. To me, their season is done. Alvin gentr is probably a good coach. Alvin Gentry is gonna come in. It's just gonna try to instill whatever new

philosophy he has. But that season is kind of done for them. They're onto the next one. They're gonna try. They have little things in the contract. While Avan Gentry can become their you know, future coach for a longer time, but they're probably going to a deeper coaching search in there to me, firing Frank Vogo mid season just that's not the solution for this team. This team has Russell Westbrook fit issues. This team has we have guards who can't defend, who we need to space the floor? Issues?

We have who is our two centers that can play, that can protect the rim and rebound enough? Like those are not firing your coach issues to me, And like Frank Vogo has a ton of problems himself, he has line of issues. Tonight, I thought it was a step forward though, no Rondo tonight, Like we got what we wanted. We got the th ht Russ stagger tssue Russ and Lebron. We got Rondo a little bit. Once Lebron went out. I tweeted that. I tweeted that when Lebron goes out,

it's a license for Frank to play Rondo. It's just like that he gets, he gets like a card and it's like, oh, Lebron's gone, O, let me play in my Rondo card, Like I can play Rondo now. Great. But like but again, like we got we got those staggered and I'm seeing process that's going forward here. But like to me, Fryan Frank Vogo is the same thing I've been talking about with the DeAndre Jordan's stuff. Everyone came at us and like, hey, just you know, stop

playing Jandre Jordan's and we'll be fine. Play a d at the Five, And that solved some issues. That solved the rust not playing a phone booth playing in a phone booth issues, but opened up these other problems that like now the eighties the five now the help man, the low Man's monk to help Man's Carmelo Anthony to help Man's, the guy who's tagging the rollers, Wayne Ellington, like,

those are other issues that comes up. And maybe it's not fair that Lebron has to be bought in from you know, tip off to end of tip off defensively, but that's what this roster has built, has been built upon at least until Trevor Reason comes back, list until Austin Reeves shockingly comes back like we need his defense, uh, and he needs to be bought in. And then hopefully, I'm hopeful and maybe again I'm a optimist. I'm a hopeful optimist in the wrong way, but I'm hopeful this

can kind of build towards that. But like firing Frank to me, is like pushing a button and hoping it solves everything. And there's all these other unintended consequences that probably come from that. And I'm a big believer in a team needs a training camp, but team needs, you know, to have voices that they've been they've been with they went to war and won a title of the thirteen months ago. Like, if Frank Vogel's voice is lost, imagine

a guy that they haven't been to war with. Imagine a guy that they don't know if his stuff works. You know what I mean? You know what I mean by that, Jason, like that, You're right, You're a thousand percent right. I do not again, I do not think Frank is anything but a scapegoat in this situation. But like, but I'll give you an example. You know who the two thousand eighteen has at the trade deadline. So you know, Jay Crowder is pretty good. I would say he's a

better player than Rodney Hood. Okay, you know they made the trade for Larry Nance, but he didn't really play much in the playoff run. They really primarily went with Tristan Thompson to turn things around in that playoff run. You know, Mainly the trade was about ditching Isaiah Thomas, who was a bad attitude and just getting some new faces in the locker room because it just helped to have some new faces because for whatever is in that

particular concoction of basketball players wasn't working. And again, it's not Jay Crowder's fault that they sucks to start that season. It wasn't Dwyane Wade's fault that they suck to start that season. That wasn't it at all. It was one

thousand percent about a scenery change. And it's completely just like it's a it's almost like a placebo effect, you know what I mean, there's something about it for whatever reason with basketball that sometimes it's just guys tune a guy out that they used to listen to and you just need to change. And I don't think it's fair again to you to your point, it's not fair. It's a thousand percent not fair. This is Lebron and a d not buying in the way they did in it

trickling down the roster. Couple that with personnel problems and like shortages at the forward position and guys having less of a natural defensive identity, and you get this disaster. To me, those are all all the things that are actually happening. But you can't get rid of Lebron in ade, nor should you want to. You just need them to wake up. What was the famous thing that Kobe Altman said after that trade deadline? Do you remember roj H

I don't know. So he was interviewed, he was interviewed during a game at halftime, or it was actually during the broadcast and they were interviewing Kobe Altman, and Kobe Altman literally said this and I'm not exaggerating, he goes, I'm not making this up. He goes, He goes, the most important thing that we got in this trade is we got Lebron to re engage. That's what he's said. And that's literally a thing. And we're gonna talk more about this in a minute when we get to Lebron.

But the reality is is Lebron is not engaged right now for whatever reason. And that's a whole other topic that we'll get to, but Lebron is not engaged right now. That is trickled down to Anthony Davis having his least engaged season as a Laker. Will probably not as bad as last year, but still pretty bad. And so now you're stuck in this like limbo where the two guys that are most capable of fixing this situation, Shian, are

not intent on fixing it. So until that changes, nothing can really change and nothing can really start heading in the right direction. And so it's just kind of the harsh reality of the situation when your stars aren't bought in. But you're right, it's not Frank's fault. And for for the record, let's say tomorrow, you know, Rob Polinka comes out with like some sort of message where he says, we're not firing Frank. Frank's here for the long run.

We want thousand percent supported. At that point, something else has to be done. And so I actually got into a discussion with Christian Rivas, who's another guy who covers the Lakers today, and the idea there is something that you and I talked about in our last pot. If you don't have a team identity that is focused on effort and focus on defense and all those things that the controllables that we talk about, then you need to

start playing players that have that as an individual identity. So, for instance, if I can't count on the group to commit on the defense the end of the floor. Then I need to play players who will do it on their own volition, like Austin Reaves, who, by the way, is obviously hurt, but we'll be coming back soon. Frank said this morning that he's if it were up to him, he'd be playing, and so the medical stats just being

safe with him. If that is bringing Stanley Johnson in on a somehow through waving another waving one of the other vets or whatever it is, if that means playing more John Dy Brown, that means more Dwight Howard, who, by the way, is a player who has a defensive identity as an individual, like playing big, even though I don't like that idea, if Dwight is one of the five on the floor and he's actually trying on the defensive end of the floor, that it carries a certain

amount of value. That's our beef, you and I are beef has always been with DJ, not with playing big. It's been with DJ. That's the problem. And so that would be the fix for Frank is like start to give some attempts to play the players who have an individual defensive identity, which do exist on this roster. They're absolutely here. So to me, that would be if Frank

stays that's the way it has to go. But I tend to think that that ship is sailed and Frank needs to go to get that change of scenery that gets the stars to buy in. Even if that sounds completely irrational, it's just it's something that has happened many times in the history of the league. So it's funny. When we got the notification that Frank was going with the two big lineups, everyone started to freak out right, it was like, oh man, what's going on? But I

think that was and I kind of respected. I think that's just Frank going down like on his in his own way, right, like I'm going down with this ship my way. And he started again Avery Bradley DeAndre Jordan's and that's this team needs a defensive identity. And I know, like I disagree with like the way it's gone gone about, Like I think we need to lean into the offense, but that's not the coach Frank is. Like, Frank is defensive minded coach, and to me, a GM, a coach

and a star player should be moving in unison. And I feel like this roster was built somehow, some way, like in spite of freak somehow, like in a in a way it's built in a totally opposite way that he would like to play guards that can't defend. But tonight, like I put in my notes here, like we need a new rotation, you know what I mean, Like that's

the way you fix this. To me, like blaming a d and russ Is and Lebron's lack of engagement on the them not buying into their coach, Like that's a bridge you have to jump to to me, and like to me, I can't get there, Like like losing the okay see is not a I'm not losing okay see earlier in the year. It is not a I'm not bought into frame right, Like like that's that has to

be something within them. That's a lack of urgency within them, that's a lack of wanting to And then again, playing guards who don't do this anyway, like Malik Munk, Wayne Elton, our guards who fight and go box out, Like that's not stuff to me that gets fixed by changing the personnel, Like that's where I want to go with this, Like to me, we need a new rotation and that's where like the hope comes in for me and this team playing Austin Reeves, Kendrick Gun will see when he comes back,

Trevor Reza that needs to replace kind of the Malik Monk, the other bad defenders that we play, and then you can start to build that because Frank's not gonna to me, he's not going to go back to a D at the five for a little while. Now, this is starting lineup we're gonna get. I think Avery Bradley is gonna stay in the starting lineup. And to me, this lineup

fits more with Avery what Aby Bradley does. I thought he was a little bit more impactful tonight, Like he's not the switching guy but and his shot wasn't really falling either. But he's a guy that but he's not been the problem, right And I like, to me, this is the starting lineup that fits him. It doesn't fit Rus, but it fits Avery Bradley, Like this is his type of lineup. The fight over funnel you to one of the bigs. One of the bigs are going to be in the paint. I'll funnel you there and I can

do my job doing that. That's that's an expectation thing, right, Frank Bogel knows what he's going to get out of Avery Bradley. That's why to me he starts him base more and Milak Monk. You don't know what you can get. And I tonight even Bradley might not be able to shoot as well as them every night from night tonight in terms of like a ceiling to floor level, but you know he plays at the level that you can

predict um. And again, like with the zone stuff, like Jeff van Gundy when but when he used to when he used to at least analyze basketball. Now it's kind of like a Now it's kind of like a three hour podcast exactly. But Jeff Van Gundy a long time ago, he said it's harder to get players to buy into a zone, right, like it just naturally as a coach, and he was a coach for a while. And this is not newt to Frank Vogo as well, which is this is the reason why I don't like the zone.

Looks like it works for a couple of possessions, but you just don't get players to buy into it. And that's that's something that Frank has talked about. But there's a defensive identity you can build here, I thought someone that's something someone brought up is a good point. Like, if you're gonna go with the two bigs, try Dwight Howard at least start him. I know we like him

off the bench. There's still things to do. To me where like once you press the fire, Frank Vogel plug like, you better be damned right at the next guy that comes in, because we know Frank Vogel is a good coach in whatever situation. It is. The new guy that comes in, whoever it is, whether it's on the bench right now, whether it's an outside higher whoever comes in. Like to me, that doesn't solid issues we have. I keep relating it back to the just start eight at

the five. That solve some problems. But then you open up all these other unintended consequences with that, and I'm not ready to go there. Yeah, I know a lot of I know all of la your nation pretty much is, but I'm I'm just not there at that point. You're you're the hold out, and it's good. We need all that. We need someone to talk us off the ledge. We need we need someone that is a little bit less reactionary.

I mean, you know, you know how it is man like I've been kind of trending in this direction a little by a little with each passing with each passing game. But you know, it's just weird. I mean, it's like you have to watch, you have to compare yourself to the best, right, I mean, because the Lakers goal is

not to beat the Pistons. The Lakers goal is to win the championship, right, And you know, it's like it's like I'm sick of going on the ESPN app and look and looking at the scores and being like, oh, Phoenix is beating the living ship out of Denver right now in the first quarter because they care and because they are actually committed to to to building that championship momentum and crossing those championship check marks, you know what I mean, like checking all those boxes. And I'm sick

of it. I'm sick. I'm sick of watching them just get out classed every single time they play. And and to and to me, you gott it's about the controllables, you know, And and and to me that ties to Frank, but I mean it is what it is. We we you know, I mentioned a couple of weeks back, we said there's probably a group chat that exists that has Lebron and Russ and Anthony Davis, and it maybe Rob's

in there too, I don't know. But with this group chat, there's a sentiment that's being exchanged among the group, and that sentiment is either like, come on, guys, let's get our ship together, or it's I need Frank addat here, and then Rust being like, yeah, me too. I I don't know what it is, and I guess, like we say, we'll find out through some kind of of of WOJ bomb.

But thought it was really interesting that you pointed out that he's going down his way, because that's what I ended up tweeting out when I saw in the starting lineup that's the last two nights ago, Frank said after they got killed by Boston, He's like, if you want to have a significant role in this rotation, you have

to commit to plaint defense. He said that, which was very very abrasive ish, you know what I mean, Like it was kind of like it was, it was kind of very off the cuff compared to the way Frank usually talks. And then a couple that with the starting lineup decision tonight, you can tell He's to that point, like I think Frank is sick of these guys. Like honestly, Like, can you imagine being Frank watching the film from these games compared compared to what he saw when he was

coaching them the previous two seasons, you know what I mean. Like, it's got to just be he's got to just be pulling his hair out, you know what I mean. But it is what it is. We can move on from the Frank thing. I mean, look, look, I want to talk about Lebron for a minute, because this is something that I've been warning you know, I've been warning you guys about for a long time, and I just never

thought it would apply to this team. But I used to always tell you, like, hey, like I think I said in the offseason, I was like, I could not imagine a better leader for this team. Why Because they have legitimate championship aspirations and a legitimate chance to win an NBA title. That's the best leader you want for

that type of group. Right, Well, things have been so off the rails that it's brought into the equation this other element of the Lebron James experience that I frequently talked about, which is the chaos, the fact that he when things go south, has a tendency to power and to be passive aggressive, and to entirely check out of basketball games mentally, and to try to send a message to the team or to the front office or to the public through very, very melodrama attic means, as opposed

to handling that kind of thing behind closed doors. He's not gonna go up to Kevin Love in his locker room and be like, dude, I need you to stop being so like like you know, alone to yourself, and I need you to start being a part of this team and try to find a way to win. No, no no, no, it's I'm gonna tweet it like like that's the Lebron experience. It's not. It's not. Hey, I'm gonna go to Rob and tell him we need to do this, this and this, and in the meantime, I'm gonna play really hard and

try to maximize as much as this is. No, it's like I'm going to pout and not try until I get what I want. That's that's the way he is. It's the way he's been pretty much ever since Miami. And so I've warned you guys, I warn you Laker Nation that this is kind of part of that experience. But there's two sides to that coin. ROJ. You said the King's season is over. They fired Luke Walton, their

season is over. Lebron, in my opinion, yes, and you're not wrong about that, although the one little detail I'd say is that the king season might have been over before it even started. But the one flip side of that coin with Lebron is that with the chaos, there is no better person to have in that chair in terms of coming out the other side. There will be a point when Lebron buys back in this year. I don't know if it's tomorrow. I don't know if it's

after the suspension. I don't know if it's after the trade deadline. I don't know if it's after Frank gets fired. I don't know if it's after another five game losing streak and nothing changes. I'm not sure. But there will be a point where he dials it back up, and what he does this team will be just fine. Lebron is very very good at taking the ugly after it's past and just moving on. It doesn't linger it doesn't

stay on the team like a tumor. He just one, he gets what he wants, he cuts it out, and he moves forward. And so all I would say is this is gonna get ugly, and I don't know what's going to change. Something's gonna change, though, and when we come out the other side, you're going to see the real Lebron James and it's all gonna be fine. I genuinely feel that. I don't think you and I ever during the season have lost faith in the ultimate goal

with this team. We've just been frustrated with the process. So does what I'm saying makes sense to you at all? No, it definitely does. Uh, Definitely, that definitely makes sense. Like Lebron has shown, I wasn't following the calves as closely, but obviously I've read the stories all the people have come out with it, Bryanoyd Horizon because the guy who's

detailed it, uh, gone in detail on that. But like to me, I can't again, like I just can't jump that bridge to like because we've seen Lebron not trying on defense before in a Laker uniform, right like that, that's definitely happened, like it happened last year in Points as well. I don't know if that's to blame on him just coming back from injury. And again I keep saying, like it's unfair to me to have year nineteen Lebron have to be the first defense type of player that

we need him to be. Uh tonight, again, a lot of really lack of engagement, lack of interest in the ball game, and that kind of goes out to the whole team. But I really can't jump that gun to go like, yeah, Lebron is not trying and that's because he's out on Frank Fogol. Like again, I said this when they when the King's let go of Luke Wall and like, if you let go of a coach seventeen games in, you know he's not your guy going into

the season, right, Like the King's knew. I don't know why they wasted everyone's time doing the seventeen game, you know, the seventeen game trot out this fake like, oh maybe he could have won. Now they knew they were letting him go at some point, whether it was now, where it was later, it was gonna happen. That's the same

thing to me with the Frank Vogl stuff. And we joke about how much power Lebron has Lebron asked for all of this, like let's let's be on his here, like this team was built with you know, him and Anthony Davis in mind. Carmelo directly came out and said he was rooted by Lebron James, not Rob Polinka. He was recruited by Lebron, James, Russell Westbrook, Russell Westbrook. The whole story about going to their house, and you know Rob wasn't there. Rob wasn't at that fancy dinner wherever

it was. It was. It was Russ, Lebron and a D deciding hey, we're gonna do this. Lebron as for all this, and he also had Frank Vogel as his coach four months ago. He had his coach three months ago. Like, this is not something that to me changes mid season. If you want to fire your coach, that's an off season thing. And that's the thing that you know, if if Lebron and a D really were you know, against Frank Vogel, that could have happened last last off the season. Instead,

Frank Bogo got an extension. Like to me, like the Lebron not trying on defense equaling to uh equaling to them out on Frank Vogel. Like those two, those two things to me just don't connect yet. Like I can't get there yet. But I see your point there. I know that if things do go bad, like stuff like this can happen. First year Lebron, right, like we lost a lot of games and then all the all the dudes were traded. Like that's sure, and Jackie mcmullens the

one who got really mad at that. I don't care about that. Lebron can drink whatever he wants on the sideline. But but yeah, like that's where I just can't get to that they haven't bought into Frank Vogel. Now, look, maybe Frank vogel scheme doesn't match the team, Like that's a fair conversation to have, Like these guards can't defend that way. I think that's something that we've been saying for a while now that you like, we probably need to do a little bit more of this switching again,

he's gone to some zone. But like the drop coverage with DeAndre Jordan as the big probably is not gonna work. And and that's okay. That stuff that can be worked out, that can be tinkered with, that that stuff that can be worked out, and again the lineup stuff is super frustrating. I would like to get I would like Frank Vogel to have the full team though, have the media day starting lineup that we were, you know, sold the Russ ellington. I think it was a reason Lebron and a d

like I'd like to see that lineup once. I'd like it to give a chance before we pull the plug, because again, to me, find a coach is pulling the plug and then the next only next thing bigger than that is trading Russ, which I compared to you know, so Frank Vogel was pulling the fire alarm trading Russ as the house burned down. I don't want to even get close to either of those two yet. So that's that's why I'm at with that. I know we're trying to move on and go on to Lebron, but they're

all intertwined if you're connected here. But again, his objection to me didn't matter. I know we got we gotta ask kick early, but I thought Russ really changed his energy. He wasn't. He wasn't playing effectively right after the objection, after the tussle with Stewart. But I thought that his you know, his his energy really reflected onto the rest of the team. Obviously Carmelo getting going was a part of it too, But I do think that was a

spark tonight and hopefully that that builds on. But but yeah, I can't get to the Lebron's not playing hard because of he's not bought into Frank Vogel or he doesn't like the roster when I feel like his hands are his hands are tempered with all of it, you know what I mean, Like, I can't, I can't get there yet. I I'm not. First of all, I'm thankful that your perspective is what it is because I think it makes for a little bit more balanced with my more radical approach,

so that that's a good thing. So we got about fifteen more minitary. I wanted to touch about the touch on the Lebron flagrant foul thing because this I thought was super interesting to me. So, um, a couple of things. First of all, guys get hit in the face in basketball games. That happens, okay a lot. Actually, um, it's

a contact sport and it's part of the game. Now they are kind of like three varying levels to that there's I accidentally get you in the face entirely, like maybe I was literally driving to the basket and my hand was on the ball, but my elbow that had the shot attempt happened to clip you in the face. Yeah, that's entirely inadvertent. Then there's like the Okay, I literally punched you in the face on purpose, you know, like a like a you know, Malice at the Palace type

of deal. But then there's like this other thing that happens, and it happens all the time. It's so thing Dwight Howard of the Lakers does like two or three times every single game, and that's the We're jostling for position, fighting for a rebound, and I thought you were a little too handsy, so I try to elbow your arms off of me. It's like just kind of like a flailing chuck of the arm. Dwight doesn't, Like I said,

literally two or three times every single game. I see it every single NBA game that I watch, at least once. But almost of the time it happens the elbow catches the dude in the bicep and knock the dude's arm off. Most of the time they run back on defense. Some of the time, they might get a little bit angry at each other, they might jaw at each other a little bit, they might get attacked, but for the most part,

we all just move on. And what happened on that play was Lebron was pinching on a on the top side on a free throw rebound, and Isaiah Stewart, who all night long has been physically bullying the Lakers on the offensive glass, especially Anthony Davis, got tangled up with Lebron and tangled up with his own arm, and Lebron, as he was falling away from him, ripped his arm through in the same way that I just described happens every single NBA game, and on the play, his hand

followed through the elbow and hit Isaiah Stewart in the face and it opened up his eyeball, and then everything you saw happened to me that was such like such a typical example of that kind of middle ground that I was talking about, something that is kind of a typical basketball play that accidentally went south. And it's hilarious because every time anything involving Lebron happens, it always turns

into this. It always turns into here, comes the Lebron's a dirty player crowd, Here comes the you know, all the Lebron stands go on the entire other direction where it's like the dude could never do anything wrong ever. And what bothers me the most about it is like, like, literally, had Isaiah Stewart not freaked out the way that he did, I don't think it would nearly have been the story that it was. And I don't think Isaiah Stewart even

freaked out until he realized he was bleeding. He got in Lebron's face and there was a little bit of jawing, and then he started seeing the blood come down his face and then he just went absolutely psycho. And what's

so it's such a non story to me. And the far more interesting topic, which we already talked about, which was Lebron's effort during the game, and obviously the Laker come back and the stuff with Frank and the stuff with the zone has all been glossed over because at this stupid angle of this video where Lebron is just trying to get a dude off of him who's jockeying for rebound position, and it's just so funny to me because it's I'm curious to hear your opinion, Rose, because

I thought, and maybe this is just me as a basketball player, you know, because like to me, it was such a normal kind of thing that can happen in the game that just so happened to go south. It almost looked to me like Lebron went right up to him after like whoops my back like Lebron. I looked to me like Ron was saying, hey man, I was just trying to get your arm off of me, and I did not mean to hit you in the face. I'm sorry, but that's the di vibe I got. So

what was your two cents on that play? So I remember in the finals when again I'm not comparing the two actions here because I'm a lot more on your side on this, but I remember when Draymond Green got suspended right for doing his kicking thing, and he tried to sell that, uh you know, that wasn't his intent. But on a replay, you can't judge intent, right Like a ref can't go and look at intent. They can

only look at the actual action that happened. So Lebron, the action that actually happened was he did hit his face. He got ejected. He got the flagrant too, might get one game suspension just with how it looked, I guess, with how bloody is. But I thought that's a play, a routine play as well. Like, Look, I do I think Isaiah Stewart obviously, I do. I think he thinks that was super intentional. Oh yeah, like I obviously think that's why he reacted the way he did. So I

was bleeding. He thought it was intentional thought, you know, as he was thought that Lebron was really trying to hit him. I thought it was the same thing. They were tied up. I think it was Dwight Howard on the other end. Look, Isaiah Stewart was kicking our ass too, Like it was. His offensive rebounding was insane, like early on, just with our lack of lack of days a goal effort combined with him going hard for every play that mixed he really killed us on that. But but yeah,

like I thought that was a normal basketball play. We see that all the time. Dudes get tangled up and one guy is like trying to get the other guy off him. And I think Lebron might have just pulled the elbow a little bit harder than he thought, and and it caught Isaiah Stewart in the face. That's all I thought it was. And again I saw the same thing you did. I thought Lebron went up to him right after it to say, like my bad, but he immediately saw the energy that that Isaiah had and obviously

that wasn't uh. He didn't feel he didn't feel it was. It was an accident, but that's all I kind of saw it was. I think Lebron gets one game, honestly, like I really do. I think that's how they're gonna they're gonna judge this. I don't know what Stewart gets. You know, he really tried to run at run at Lebron, which was Yeah, I don't know if I can blame him. He really did think it was intentional, But that's all

I thought it was, too. I didn't think it was a big, super big deal, which is why I told you as well that we didn't really need to discuss it that much. Just throw it onto the end of this one, because I don't want that to be the story of this game. Yeah. Yeah, Now do I think that sparked the Lakers. I honestly did think that sparked them. I think Lebron going out and not that like Lebron

got ejected and we need the energy. It was more like Russ and a D being like, oh, like, oh, I'm the I'm the guy now, like I have to run this like Lebrons on the floor and anymore like it's my time. I got to run it. And maybe that's a separate issue. That's a we need to find a way to get Russ, Lebron in Ady to have that type of energy all game, even when all three are there. But that's what I thought happened. I didn't

want this to be the story. You didn't either. I thought that was a play that it's a it's a player that happens, you know, routinely in basketball. Like you said, Dwight, how are you see it? A lot big man who tustled down low. We talked about how much contact they allow at the rim versus the perimeter. I think at the free throw line is the biggest space of that. Like on the free throw rebounds, you'll see all kinds

of contact. Files just get the rest, just slaw all the whistles on that, and I think this was another part of that. But you know, Stuart, he was bleeding and he felt the type of way about it. But I didn't think Lebron was intentionally trying to elbow him in the faces as it looked as it can look on replay. When you slow things down, things can can sometimes look a lot worse than it would just play

them in real time. That was my whole take on that. Yeah, it's interesting because, like I even think there's a big gap between like we're jocking for position and I deliberately elbow you in the ribs, like like trying to forcibly hit the elbow into somebody to me is so different than like ripping away, And to me, that's what that was. He was ripping away. Now he did it in a

reckless way. He hit the dude in the face as a result, But like, I'm serious and this is gonna you know, obviously everyone knows I am a fan of Lebron, that's true, but I also try to call it like I see it with him, and like, to me, that was a flagrant one play on It just happened to be his knuckle must have just caught him in the wrong spot opened up his face. Then Isaiah Stewart proceeded to have one of the crazy that part where he

ran through the tunnel of the announcers. We're talking about him potentially looping all the way around the hallway to reappear by the Lakers bench. That was crazy. I've never seen anything like that before. Like that was absolutely wild. But the point being is, like I I just it was a riff away again, Like, I can't tell you how many times I see that watching NBA basketball. That kind of thing happens. So there are so many like little things like that that happened in basketball all the time.

It's no different than like there are a lot of guys that like when you're isolating in a triple threat and the dude sticks his arm out and like guards you from one from arm's length away. Sometimes the guy will slap down at the arm just to knock the arm away, you know, that kind of that kind of weird hand fighting and elbow fighting, you know, just with your limbs. That kind of thing happens all the time

in basketball. I'd be willing to bet if I really tried, And no, I don't care enough to try, But if I really tried, I bet you I could find a half dozen examples this year of Isaiah tom or excuse me, Isaiah Stewart flailing his elbow at a guy while fighting for rebound position. I bet you I can find those clips. That's that's how common this play is to me, and just how straightforward it was. But but it is what

it is. Like you said, it should never have been a big for those of you are who just tuned in. We're doing this at the end for a reason. This should not have been the story tonight. The story of this game was the Lakers mailing it in for three quarters again and the team looking like they had quit

on Frank. And then suddenly in the fourth quarter, after a few Carmelo, Anthony Threes, Russell Westbrook and Anthony Davis hit the gas in won a game on the road against the Pistons and pretty impressive fashion down at the down there at the end of the game. That's the story tonight. And then you could get into a story about Lebron's buy in and Frank Vogel and all that stuff. But this should not have been the story, and it's

unfortunate that it was. Yeah, and it's going to be like this, It's gonna run on ESPN all that it's gonna be the number one story, but like we didn't, we didn't spend too much time on it, so I guess I don't know much how much time we have left. But again, yeah, I just wanted to give Thd again the shoutout. He was a plus thirteen to night, and again a lot of that was because he was in in the fourth quarter. But I think his defense is super important to this team. We didn't start him tonight

and I kind of like that. I'm I'm fine with that, letting him kind of run his units. He's still really he's still really out of control going to the basket and stuff like that. But his defense I thought was super important. Every Bradley plus eighteen and that wasn't directly just him, It's just I think he fits what the team wants to do when they go to these these lineups for Frank, and it's really consistent. What is what he's gonna do on the floor, And I think Frank

really likes that. So I just want to give those two guys a shout out. And the Russell Westbrook ten and nine. We always talked about the numbers. We always talked about the production and how real the numbers kind of equate to winning. For his fourth quarter was just huge, and uh, I want to make that the story from tonight, like the ejection is what it is. But I thought those three really played played well. I thought Frank found

the lineup that he could play. I like that. In the fourth quarter they went to Russ Bradley, Russ Bradley, Mellow, a D and I forgot who the other guy was on the floor there th HD, Sorry yeah, Russ Bradley, th HD, Mellow and a D. I thought that was the lineup that worked. It looked nice, something they can use in second units. They defended enough and then Russ a D going nuclear is something our second units can kind of build towards. So I always talk about process.

Those are things I wanted to take take from this game before we close it up. Um So, everybody who requested, I know, I said that we were trying to get to some collars today, but this ended up just being way too eventful of a game. Um. I think they played the Pistons again soon, and then they also played two games against the Kings the King, so we're gonna have some games here soon that hopefully or less eventful.

And then I promise we'll just like do like a little ten minute break down, and then we'll get into a bunch of callers because I am curious to hear where all your guys kids are at. But it is a Sunday night, and if I go over fifty five minutes, I get dirty looks from my wife, So it is time to call it. I appreciate you guys and your support. Um. This is gonna air on Dash Radio tomorrow morning at seven am. This will also be on our podcast feed

here in about fifteen twenty minutes. We Roger and I continue to be blown away by your guys a support, and we appreciate it, and we hope you'll join us again for that back to back on Tuesday and Wednesday. Appreciate everyone for coming out on a Sunday. Have a good night, Yeah,