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a jampackshow for you guys todaight. We decided to pivot around the end of the first half there as it turned into a complete and utter destruction as the Minnesota Timberwolves tie the series at three, sending us to a Game seven in Denver on Sunday, they are up by as much as fifty the most destructive blowout of this
postseason to this point. So with that we're gonna bring in the guys from Nerd SESSH Logan and Carson, and we're going to take a deeper dive into this particular series, talk about what we saw tonight, talk about what we expect in Game seven. Then we're gonna use tonight as an opportunity to bounce around to the other two remaining semi final series that we have Mavericks, Thunder and Nick Pacers.
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All right, let's talk some basketball.
So what's up, guys, Thanks for taking the time to come on short notice and hang out talk some hoops this game.
You know, it's really hard to learn much.
About a game where a team goes up by fifty points after they got out classed three times in a row right before that, right I said the same thing after the Knicks one game Game five at home, after the Pacers tied in game four, Like when you play in Indiana and the Knicks get killed, and then you go back to New York and the Pacers get killed, it's very clear that effort and energy and focus is the primary determining factor. I thought that was clear in
this game from the opening tip. I'm gonna pitch it to you guys, to you first, Carson, and we're gonna go round. I want you guys to give your thoughts on what happens tonight. I'm gonna give you one stat before we start. Minnesota's defense tonight, another incredible performance. According to Cleaning the Glass, held the Nuggets to sixty five point two points per one hundred half court plays. They outscored them by forty one point one points per one hundred half court possessions.
It was a complete and total destruction.
What did you notice tonight, Carson, Well, I think you hit on the key point, which is that this was clearly going to be a bad Denver game, not from the jump right, because early they were actually getting out in transition and they got out to that nine to two lead.
But pretty clearly thereafter once you see the twenty zhering run, and I think that we have to give a lot of credit to Minnesota for that, because this is a fantastic defense. I believe one of the best defenses that we've seen this century, and the last few games didn't change that. That was just an all time offense winning out against still a great defense, and in this game there was a reversal. To me, it immediately felt more like Game two. This was a very physical game from
Minnesota defensively. The ball pressure actually had a substantial impact at a few points, which we've seen Denver has found
ways to negate over these last few games. But like there's the bad Jamal Murray turnover early, and they were much more physical, and I thought they did a really good job on Jokic as well, super rac with their hands, they're getting those backtabs, they're poking balls out just like they were in Game two at a ridiculous level, and they did a really good job of forcing anybody other than.
Yolkic to beat them.
I thought last game's game plan was just shockingly bad from Minnesota in terms of how willing they were to allow Yolkish to work in single coverage. Now there came a point where he started specifically hunting that stuff.
He was like, Okay, I'm not gonna let Rudy Rome.
I'm going to force the switch here and then you're not gonna send help when I have go bear on me. But like he was just allowed to really toast them in that game. And they have seen by far their most success against him and the Snuggets offense in this series when they send doubles. In Game two, that was the single biggest thing. With Rudy off the floor. They didn't really have a choice, but they doubled the hell out of him, and they just have such an athletic advantage.
Their rotations were so excellent in that game. They were running dudes off the line, they were forcing contested threes, and they just sped up that offense and they threw it into the chaos.
And that's what happened in this game.
Again, it felt like the Uggets completely lost their sense of self and they were just operating at this very hectic pace that was clearly to their disadvantage. Like you have early shot clock Aaron Gordon threes and I know that he shot the ball quite well from beyond the arc in this series. But you don't like those looks early shot clock Jolkic threes, with how he's been shooting over this postseason, you don't love, and you would just like for them to work to get a better shot
off of these Jokic doubles. Oftentimes they're just taking like the first catch and shoot three that they get instead of trying to consistently swing that ball and put the defense further into rotation. And I just thought that things got worse and worse for them, and the issues compounded, and then you have like Aaron Gordon forcing an ISO on go Bare missing a turnaround he dribbles off his
foot trying to attack Kat. The non Yolkic minutes were awful in the first half offensively and ultimately as well as Minnesota defended and as much as Denver was thrown off their rhythm, they also just couldn't make a shot, Like even when they got a good open look from deep, it didn't matter.
They were four of.
Twenty one from three in the first half, I believe, and Rudy also did an incredible job protecting the rim in this game, and I thought forced a number of tough misses in the paint where Jamal is just way off on a floater. Christian Brown doesn't even want to put up a shot.
Like.
His presence was monstrous in this game, and he really kept them from scoring in the paint. And when they're struggling to score from deep as they were in this game, that is obviously a massive factor. And Jamal was brutal one of ten in the first half. Really disappointing effort. I thought that Ant did a great job on him. I thought, again, this was a very physical performance and that threw him off his rhythm. He was also just missing open shots, so the offense broke down. But I
was really disappointed by just the effort as well. They allow eleven offensive rebounds just in the first half. You have that sequence to end the half when yeah, they've been down big for the entire period, but they're finally building some semblance of momentum and Aaron Gordon throws the ball up into the air and then they just concede an easy offensive rebound to Jade McDaniel. And from that point forward it was like awful rotations. You get a
jokicch lazy turnover. He wasn't protecting the ball like he has been just a really bad let down performance from them facing a team on the road that you know is first of all, gonna pride themselves on the defensive side of the ball, and they're going to start their effort there. They are going to bring the physicality if it is allowed, more so than anybody else in the league. They are more athletic than you, and so if they are giving a bunch of effort and you aren't, you
can just get smacked in the mouth. And that very much happened in this game.
Yeah, they did get smacked in the mouth. I do want to give a ton of credit to Minnesota. Man, it was a defensive masterclass in this one, and I think you.
Hit on it, Carson.
It's not really the consistency of this defense and how they can affect Denver, but it's the capability the fact that they can have games like this. Like everybody wanted to make big declarations about this series at every step of the lay, myself included. Wanted to write Denver off after the first two games, wanted to write Minnesota off after the last three games. But the bottom line is
that nobody has been able to disrupt Denver. In the way that Minnesota has, and I think it is a testament to their defense at a game like this is possible, let alone that we get three in a single series. Like I think the big key is doubling nikoley Jokic, getting the ball out of his hands consistently and forcing other guys to kill you. They did a phenomenal job and recovering off doubles.
Carson.
You mentioned how they dominated the glass. Two eleven first half offensive rebounds. Guys, that's the most in the first half in the playoffs since two thousand and four. They also grabbed sixty one boards overall, that's the most in a game since the twenty twenty two Warriors. And they just forced the Nuggets to settle for so many jump shots. The Nuggets in the regular season were thirtieth and three pointers attempt under just under thirty two threes a game.
They attempted twenty one in the first half. That's on the Boston Celtics pace for a single game. You guys know how I feel about the Boston Celtics, Like, that's not a great stat.
You just got to get downhill.
They finished this one seven to thirty six overall and they beat him in the paint forty six to thirty six, Like that's a huge key, man. They can't get anything else going. They can't hit the broad side of a barn on a jump shot, and their offense was just out of sorts. I thought the game plan was great. I thought the energy and the effort was great. And I want to give a big shout out too. You
mentioned Rudy Gobert Karson. I want to give a big shout out to Kat and how he stood physically in the post two and Jaden McDaniels, like the will of him, dude, not even what he did offensively, He had a great offensive game to I too, But just that takes a toll man, that consistent effort and energy, and he didn't looked tired at all throughout this game. Man, kept applying
ball pressure, kept getting after it. It was just a genius game plan, tremendous effort, tremendous energy, and something that you rarely see against this Denver team. Man, it is really amazing that Minnesota is able to pull off three games like this in a single series against maybe the best offense I've ever seen.
Yeah, the talk after this game is going to be tactically focused around the double teaming, right, Like that's going to be the big thing. Is like, oh we double team jokicch it threw off Denver's offense. This is this is where things kind took off. And I think we're gonna learn a lot more about that adjustment in game seven.
I do think that that's the best available route for them, mainly just because Michael Porter Junior is not shooting particularly well in this series, and so as a result of that, and Jamal Murray's not shooting particularly well either, So like you gotta go down by making these dudes that are out of rhythm make shots. So, like, I one hundred percent agree that that's the strategy, but I didn't think that that was the determining factor in tonight's game at all.
It was just a complete physical, athletic bludgeoning. That's literally
all it was to me. And you know, one of the things we noticed, and we saw this at the opening stretch in the first first quarter of Game one, pretty much throughout Game two, and then throughout the game tonight, Like one of the big things that Minnesota's defense has done to Denver for stretches is speed them up and Carson you specifically referenced this, but this really like kind of showed through for me at the end of the first quarter tonight, where it's like you just see them
making uncharacteristic non Denver Nuggets types of plays, like you said, rushing a jump shot when there's an opportunity to get something better, you know, just not being as methodical with
their execution. I think the best complement that you can play that you can pay a defense, or I should say that the best indicator of a defense really having an effect is when you make an offense or an offensive player play a different way than they typically do, meaning like if you get them out of their their kind of like tendencies and get them to start like rushing, making mistakes, taking shots they don't normally take anytime, you get them to like literally lose their head, so to speak.
That's a testament to the defense. And again one of the things that regardless of what happens in Game seven, I think we can even say for sure that Denver has really struggled for stretches with this Minnesota defense. They have a way of kind of like holding up underneath that onslot, and to me, it comes down to being
like really deliberate with their offensive execution. It kind of reminds me of Game Three, where it's like just being really good about handling ball, pressure, being patient to get the ball up the floor into your spots, setting really good screens, kind of executing from there.
Honestly, like, there was a stretch early.
Second quarter where Jokic stayed on the floor where he typically doesn't, and I think they did that. I think Michael Malone did that on purpose to try to kind of regain control of the situation before he put Jokic out because he knew thirty one fourteen or whatever the score was at the end of the first quarter. You bail on Jokic there, it could be a twenty seven point game in a matter of minutes, right And honestly, during that stretch, they generated multiple wide open threes off
of the yokch doubles and they were missing them. But what happened was they got a few offensive rebounds and got a couple putbacks, and then they went down to the other end. They locked in, they got stops. They actually kind of methodically worked it down to eleven even though they weren't shooting well. And then as soon as Yo gets checked out of the game, it was nineteen
and ninety seconds, like it was. It was over that fast, and so really like that, that to me is the is the is like the kind of like like the kind of ebb and flow of this series. Minnesota's defense is oppressive, but Denver is capable of executing against them
and scoring. Carson, you had a tweet that you sent out after Game five that I thought was really really fascinating that Denver had a one to twenty seven offensive rating in those in those three games against this defense that we all think is the best, right, And what's crazy about that is Boston had the best offense in the league this year at a one to twenty two offensive rating, So just think about that. That's the level of production you were getting out of that Denver offense.
We know that they're capable of scoring against them, they just have to be really deliberate with their execution as soon as they let go of the rope a little bit. The problem is Minnesota's way more athletic than them, and so as soon as they do let go the rope in terms of like their discipline and execution. It's not just that they lose, they run into a buzzsaw, and that's why we're seeing these like blowouts in Game two and in game in game six, where it's like when
they let go, they just can't hang. But before we kind of move forward, I want to make sure that we appropriately kind of focus on Minnesota here, because Minnesota has their flaws, you and you two and us or
my you two and myself. We've discussed that specific set of flaws all season long, having to do with some of their offensive limitations, especially if you can force Anthony Edwards to give up the basketball since he's playing like he's playing like prime Kobe and MJ these days, right, So, like there is obviously limitations there, but their defense is real. They're capable of shaking their opponent's foundation, and when they do,
it doesn't really matter what their other flaws are. It's almost like confidence takes over and then all of a sudden, Jade McDaniels gets going offensively all of a sudden, like my Conley starts being super aggressive and hitting pull up threes and other pull up jump shots, and like, I just want to credit Minesota. I thought they played a hell of a game. I thought Anthony Edwards had an incredible bounce back after that rough Game five. Actually that there was a report that he went to one of
the staffers for Denver. It was like, see you in game seven. That's right in the check and he had to cash it today and he did. And so I just want to shout those guys out. So here's the thing. I still think that Denver is capable of executing and beating this team in game seven. However, the problem with this is you now have put yourself in a situation where the variance of a single basketball game gets you eliminated,
and so there's a considerable amount of risk here. As far as it pertains to game six, I don't really necessarily, and I said this to you guys before we actually went live, I don't really see tonight as a huge downmark for Denver in the sense it's just really hard to beat a team four times in a row under any circumstances, let alone a really good team.
Right.
The damage they did was the damage they did in the first two games. By dropping those first two games, they put themselves in a predict commit where they were almost certainly going to face the Game seven if they were to win the series. Now here we are I'm gonna toss it to you first s logan as we head into game seven, I'm assuming we all are sticking with our Denver pick. Do you still remain confident there or do you feel like Minnesota has him on the ropes and has a chance to win.
Confiden's an interesting word. I wouldn't say confident. I'm hopeful. There's just still other things that need to swing back in Denver's way for them to win. I mean, I think the biggest thing is the supporting cast. Like this game is a complete indictment on the supporting cast and what they've done this series. And the first guy that you got to point the finger at is Jamal Murray.
Like the thing with Jamal too, is he's a rhythm guy, right, and a lot of scorers and a lot of shooters in the NBA are like that.
Man.
You get that first one to go through to nylon and it's like, all right, I'm gonna.
Have a good game.
And I felt like you could see the confidence kind of leave Jamal's body as this game went along, Like he starts out this game four to five and then he's getting these open mid range looks that he's he would put up without any hesitation if his.
Shot was falling, and he starts being passive.
It's like what you said, Jason's got a great defense getting you off of your game, and he missed enough early and they got him off his game where he was second guessing himself and being more passive and passing up open Looks like it's a broad blanket statement that you could make for almost any team. But like, the second guy's got to pull his weight, he's got to play so much better Game one, Game two and or
receiving this is game one. In game two, thirteen points on thirty seven percent true shooting, and this one he's ten points on four of eighteen and two of seven from deep. Like he's got to be better. Michael Porter Junior has got to be better.
Man.
In round one, he was probably Denver's second best player against LA like they needed him. Twenty three points in seventies percent true shooting, and this one. In this series overall, he's twelve points on.
Fifty five percent true shooting.
And a big thing here with Denver is the fact that they don't have a luxury of depth here. They don't have role players that they can turn to. Guys they're benching this game, and they've talked about the bench in this series a ton, and I think that's an interesting factor to look at. It is Holliday gonna hit his open looks. Is Christian Brawn gonna do brown? Excuse me? Is he gonna do something? And this one they shoot
four of twenty eight. The bench does for Denver, like they don't really have margins offensively if MPJ and Jamal aren't pulling their weight, they don't have avenues to easy offense. Like you know, maybe the boring take. Denver's got to bring energy. They got to bring more effort, obviously, or Jamal and MPJ gonna hit a freaking shot.
Man.
If they can't, it's wrapped like Minnesota's gonna steamroll them once more. And Jokic can make all the right reads, man, he can make all the right passes. If they're diverting, this kind of defensive attention to Jokic and the nugget supporting cast is not gonna make them pay.
They're not gonna win.
So it may be a boring answer, but like the number two and number three just have to hit open shots, man, They got to alleviate some of this pressure off of Jokic, because once they do, and you gotta stop doubling Yokic as much, it opens up the floor for him. Everything for Denver gets going. It's all those two guys to get it going.
In Game seven, absolutely, those guys have to be way better. Aaron Gordon, who has been really good in this series, I thought just the decision making tonight again, he was just chaotic in the first half of this game, and I thought that that was costly.
Where he has been so good. But I do expect Denver to win.
And a big reason is that so much of what we've talked about has been an issue of focus and of effort and of consistency, which really has been the polar opposite of the done of the Denver team that we saw last year. Like that's what's so stunning to me, is where they really separated from the pack last year was just the consistency of their offensive process, taking care of the basketball, always engaged defensively. They didn't have like
a bad game in all of last postseason. They didn't lose a game by double digits, whereas this year we've seen obviously all the slow starts and all the carelessness against the Lakers, and they pulled through because they're just
that much better. But then you have this series, the bludgeoning that they take in Game two, which I thought was more about like an all time effort by Minnesota's defense, but of course, like they got sped up and thrown off their rhythm and they weren't ready for that battle in this game.
They just don't have the focus.
They went Jason from as you say, like three games of offensive perfection, posting an offensive rating of one to twenty seven against this defense. Jokics played two back to back masterpieces, and they were hitting forty five percent of their threes.
Just everything was clicking.
They figured out the ball pressure, they were playing so more methodically, making such great collective decisions. And then they're the first team tonight to score seventy points or fewer in a playoff game in eight years. So that's just completely bipolar. But to me, locked in Denver is still the best team in the league, and that's what they
showed over these last three games. But as you say, like they leave themselves open now to the variance of one game against a really good basketball team that kicked their asses legitimately in the first two games of this series, and obviously again tonight. But again that was just sort of like you just throw your hands up and it's like, all right, that was never gonna happen. They obviously have to be focused from the jump, but I fully expect them to be. That is why I think doubling Yokic
makes sense. Though, it's just the inconsistency of the supporting cast, and that's the trend that we've seen. The Lakers found their most success doubling against Yokich. The Timberwolves had by far their best defensive game doubling him aggressively.
It's not a question of him making the right reads.
Like we consistently see he can make those skip passes if you really pressure him with length, like sometimes they'll come out a little bit high, but generally he's gonna make the right read. It's just a question of, all right, can we contest them, can we rotate well, can we run them off the line? Can we force anybody else to make decisions and make shots? Michael Porter Junior over his last three games six points per game on thirty eight percent true shooting.
This is one of the greatest pure jump.
Shooters in NBA history, I legitimately believe, and he can't make anything right now. The shots that he's taking are out of rhythm, they're forced even for him. I give him leeway because he's such a crazy, contested shot maker, but these are not good shots that he's taking, and Jamal absolutely has to be better. So I do expect them to heavily double Jokic, but I also agree it's not like they figured things out, being like, hey, we can double Jokic if the Nuggets jump shooters are hitting well,
then that's still a really really bad answer. But this year, when you leave yokicen single coverage on a post up, he's averaged one point twenty five points. When you double, the Nuggets average point nine to four points. So a lot of that is just the shot making of the teammates. But like there is a pretty clear answer, there's no good answer to Nicole Jolkic and specifically his post up offense.
But the worst answer to me is clearly just letting him work in single coverage like they did in Game five. I do think that the bench minutes are certainly crucial for Denver. They have outperformed there, but this was a really night rough. This was a really rough performance tonight, and the Timberwolves were absolutely just better in this game, not just defensively, their offensive process was way better.
Having Mike Conley back on the floor.
You just had more shot making, You had more good decision making out there. That ball was moving, you saw it from the jump. Kat was being proactive as a playmaker. Jane McDaniels was outstanding, and he has been pretty rough offensively this series. He was two of twelve from deep coming in to tonight, and he was hitting his open threes, but he was also attacking closeouts. He was aggressive as a driver. So this Timberwolves offense has had some low lows,
but tonight was a pretty high high. All of that to say, yes, this was a night that was all Minnesota and it was no Denver. But when it comes down to it, all the money on the line, I do think Denver can focus up. I do think they can dial in their offensive process. They have the best player on the floor. And even if Jamal and MPJ aren't shooting well right now, like those are really really good shooters of the basketball. This is an incredible offense.
I believe one of the three best offenses we've seen this century, and I would bet that to win out on their home floor.
Yeah, I'm picking Denver as well. I want to look at this from both perspectiveives. The Denver win on Sunday would look more or less I think like what Game three looked like in the sense that I do believe that Minnesota will go back to doubling a lot, and I think that Denver will counter that by going back to a more steady diet of pick and roll and using Yokic more as a screen and roll guy than as a post guy, just to try to kind of
maintain some of that rhythm and flow. And again, we know what Denver is going to do to try to mitigate some of the ball pressure stuff. They're going to have Jokic and Gordon bring the ball up the floor more. Jokic is going to be setting monster screens from the opening tip of this game to really try to free up Jamal and help them get kind of free right from there. It's just about them kind of maintaining that
methodical approach and then continuing the defensive game plan. Because one of the things we haven't talked a lot about tonight is Denver I thought had a really bad defensive game, and the dead giveaway was like a lot of the same, you know, kind of extra attention they throw it through
at Anthony Edwards wasn't there from Game five. A big part of that is I thought they allowed Minnesota operate a lot in semi transition, and a big part of that is just not ever scoring and constantly being in transition cross matches and where you know, when you let Ant really kind of gallop up the floor with a head of steam into like that semi transition, it's just really difficult to kind of corral him and make him play passive basketball. And then I also want to credit Ant.
I thought he had a really good playmaking game, even above and beyond just assist totals, just like getting the defense in rotation and making easy reads, which by the way, is contagious and it kind of sets everything else upright, So we know what a Denver win.
Would look like.
I think it would look a lot like Game three for Denver going into Game seven. Minnesota I do think has a legitimate path here though, and I think it kind of comes down to a couple of key things. First of all, you have to throw a hallacious defensive punch from the opening tip, like we talked about earlier, you can shake Denver's foundation, and when you do, they kind of let go of the rope mentally and they
can kind of fall apart. Right, So, like you got to throw that sledgehammer at that at that foundation at the opening tip, and see if you can crack it a little bit. Right, That's a big piece of it. Just a lot of defensive intensity, which by the way, in Game three they very much did not bring. And that was a big part of what Anthony Everards talked about after the game.
Right.
Secondly, Anthony Edwards, in my opinion, is probably a top five player in the world and is flat out unguardable in the majority of situations. And so what if he just goes in and has a red hot pull up jump shooting game. You know, that's a factor that has to be kind of weighed in here. You mentioned Jada McDaniels. He got kind of going in a big way offensively tonight. Some of this stuff like Kat and nas Reed posting up. A big part of that I thought was Denver didn't
really bring the physicality. I think they've demonstrated that they can flat out, flat flatten out Cat's post ups and turn him into more of an over the top shot maker and kind of limit his effectiveness. I do agree that Mike Conley just in a lot of ways. It's just kind of like blue guy is kind of like a cliche that we use in basketball, but he just kind of makes everything come together, especially with this decision making of that group.
Right.
So, like again, I'm picking Denver, but Minnesota absolutely has a chance to win this game. There's a pathway for them there. I wouldn't even say they have a chance. There is a version of this game that they will win if things go a certain way. They have they have that type of firepower. And so this, to me, I would put it roughly, we'll go we'll go around quickly. I'm gonna put it at at about like sixty five thirty five in favor of Denver.
What do you think, Carson?
That is exactly what I was gonna say, And I agree with everything that you laid out. But I do expect Denver to be much more prepared for the physicality of this game, to be prepared for that sort of relacious defensive effort like if you're not in game seven, and if you are, as you say, just giving the sort of lazy defensive effort that we saw tonight. I thought some of the rotations were really poor. That's not
gonna happen in a game seven. So yeah, I think sixty five to thirty five is a good spot.
Yeah, that's the exact same number.
I'd say, way, yeah, No, that's so weird.
That's so weird. I was going to go seventy thirty.
But that's for you guys, are coward good number.
No.
I wanted to see Carson.
I wanted Carson to come out with like the ninety seven to three, like I wanted Carson just to just lean into his Jokic standum with the full fource.
Minnesota is great.
I think he's yeah, there teams, so okay. On that note, let's move around to the other two series real quick. We'll just spend at about ten minutes on each of them. So I want to start with uh, let's start with New York Indiana Game four and five. Kind of similar to what we talked about tonight. Not really a whole lot for you to learn about, in the sense that you know, we have this bizarre Game four where the Knicks just let go the rope basically for the first
time all postseason. It seems like every other time they've been up against it and they find themselves in a ten twelve point deficit, they would just somehow nix their way back into the game.
You know, and they let go the rope.
Right then we go back to Game five in Indie or Game five back in in MSG, and it kind of it was like a little bit of like Game one where Tyre's Halliburton's weirdly super passive, but at the same time, the Knicks just bring this hillacious, desperate effort and they pull out to win. Rick Carlisle super pissed off after the game about their effort level. It will start with you, Logan, how are you guys feeling about Game six back in Indiana tomorrow night.
You have to be po at Indiana's effort level. Man, that's the biggest thing. I was, Oh, Jason, I don't know if you saw, man. I was all in on the Pacers. I said, they're gonna mop the Knicks last two games and next a retired, they're depleted. They're gonna run these boys.
And I bet on.
The girl that doesn't play defense, and I bet against the team that plays really hard most nights, and I feel quite foolish for it. Like New York just has bankable things that are consistently going to show up night tonight in the way that the Pacers don't. The first bedrock of this team is Jaylen Brunson, and the Indiana Pacers have no idea how to contain or how to defend him. Last game Game five, forty four points, seven
assists on fifty eight percent true shooting. These numbers were midway through game five, so they're probably there's a few more shot attempts on them for sure, so they're not fully right. This is about in the third quarter. Brunson was fourteen to twenty one on them hard in the series, eleven to twenty eight on Nie Smith, and three of eleven versus McConnell. So I think a big thing for the Pacers is you just got to match the Smith's minutes. You have to have him on Brunton as.
Much as possible. He just gives you.
The best route to maybe winning against him. I don't think it's gonna work. Like I think Brunson has been dissecting doubles. He's been getting everything that he wants and so again, again that's just something that you can bank on with New York. Jalen Brunston's gonna show up. The other thing that you can bank on is just how New York has crushed the glass and the effort.
Man.
You mentioned it, Jason.
They're plus thirty two in total boards in this series, they're plus eighteen in offensive boards, and in Game five they they win fifty three to twenty nine. Overall, they win twenty to five on the offensive glass, and they dominate second chance points twenty six to nine.
Like, that's the scary thing about Indiana.
Man, is it feels like, sure New York does not have many quality basketball players. They are playing their like eighth to ninth men as starters. It's ridiculous how many bodies and how many guys they're out. But I expect this team to play hard, really hard. I expect the role players to do their jobs to a great level. I expect Jalen Brunson to put the team on his back. And the Pacers scare me, like, are the Pacers gonna play defense? Is Tyre's Halliburton gonna shoot more than ten shots.
That's the biggest question mark to me too, dude, as a superstar player. The Pacers were scoreless for six minutes in the third quarter of Game five, and it's like, where is Halliburton?
Where what are we doing? You gotta take a shot.
So Indiana just scares me to bet on after I put all my chips in on them. Man, are they gonna play defense? Are they gonna give me effort? Is Halliburton gonna shoot enough shots? And the other guy that I point the f his Pascal Siakam. I've just been consistently disappointed at him not succeeding in attacking mismatches, and like, this is a small Knicks team that are routinely trotting out four guards in Hartenstein. That's a scenario that Siakam's
just got to dominate. So when I look at these two teams, I just think New York has more bankable and consistent things that they're gonna do on a nightly basis.
I think the Pacers can get hot.
I expect them to match that effort and energy, but they burn me man, And I'm scared about betting on Indiana again. They just have way more red flags than me than New York. New York maybe lacking quality basketball players, but I know Brunson and the boys are gonna bring it hard.
Pivot from Logan from where he was at after Day. I expect Indiana to win Game six. I would take the Knicks to win this series in seven. I don't necessarily disagree with a ton that you said, Logan, like.
The reason that I ultimately have a little bit more faith in a Knicks team that is so shorthanded is because Brunson has much more consistently played up to the superstar or friend, superstar, top fifteen guy, whatever you want to call him, level that he has earned recognition for, whereas Hallie, although he had an amazing stretch in games three and four of this series, has been much less
consistent with the aggression. And so I absolutely would bet on them having the best player on the floor in the biggest game. I would bet on them winning the effort category. And then I think they've gotten enough in terms of spot up shooting. I still think there are some really good connective playmakers there, guys who make really instinctual plays. Defensively, they still have more of a defensive foundation even without Og in a do or guy spot.
I would lean the.
Next But for Game six, it's just tough for me to see the Knicks going into Indiana and I know that they have this ability to summon this superhuman effort within themselves, but they didn't in game four. Game four was finally the spot where they were like, ah, man, that was the one to steal Game three, where we shoot fifty something ver from three, Dante gives us thirty five.
They couldn't get up for that specific game, and obviously we saw tonight like when you are the team up three to two going on the road, it's tough to summon the same level of effort that the home team has. And Indiana has been really good at home. They haven't lost a home game in these playoffs. And that's where it's like, Okay, now they have clear basketball advantages. They have nine real quality basketball players. They have two stars
on the floor of the Knicks. One they play super fast and can just build those leads, especially at home. I'm with you on like Siakam has to play those small ball looks off the floor. He has to be better as a mismatch attacker, and that goes from Ales Turner as well. And those guys have to rebound better because there's no reason for the Knicks to beat you on the glass when they are playing this super small
ball look. And that's a win for them because Deuce McBride is just better than precious, and it allows them to match your pace more effectively and bring ball pressure, and they have more shooting, all these things that were big in Game five. But with the home crowd behind them, knowing that they have to bring that sort of energy and ultimately having more weapons, I do think Indiana probably takes Game six.
So I'm actually a little bit more optimistic about the Knicks winning Game six. I think I leaned slightly towards Indiana in that game. It's probably like a fifty five to forty five for me. I think it's gonna be a really close game. I think the underrated part of Game four that people are forgetting is it was like a really quick turnaround. It was basically a day and
a half after Game three. In Game three was very much a heartbreaking end to that game, right, So I think that plays a role the especially with Jalen Brunson dealing with his foot injury. We're not just talking about not having a quick turnaround. We have an extra day in here. The Nicks and Pacers played two days ago and they don't play again until tomorrow, and so you got two full days off. That's big on a big
for Jalen Brunson's foot. I think one of the things that Tom dibdou figured out, and he figured it out earlier in the series, but he did it with the starting lineup in game five is just kind of understanding that Duce McBride is one of his five best players and there's just way too much presses. There was a playing game, I think it was in Game five that to me like perfectly encapsulated the problem with precious to Chua.
He catches in the left corner wide open for three, doesn't take the shot, drives the baseline, and shoots a floater short off the front of the rim, and you're like, oh man, yeah, so like and one of the specific things from a matchup standpoint with Deuce McBride on the floor that becomes a problem for the Pacers is they can't stash Haliburton on Josh Hart because Josh Hart's just a wrecking ball in the offensive glass, and it becomes a problem. I still think i'd put ty Reese on
Josh Hart. I just don't think they'll do it. The main reason why I'd put Tyree on Josh Hart is I think you could hedge and recover and get away with a late close out on Josh Hart when he slips to the three point line. And then again, I would confront the rebounding issue more as a team. But they're not going to put him on Josh Hart. I just I don't think Rick Carlisle wants that physical mismatch.
Don Died Evencenzo on Miles McBride can both hit picking pop threes at a pretty high level, and Duce McBride did an amazing job in Game five of just kind of making the next read in line to kind of get the the defense in rotation and kind of take advantage of it really when it comes down to it for me, Even though Indiana actually has won the half court battle so far through five games, they're at one hundred point eight points per one hundred half court plays.
The Knicks are at one hundred flat in the series. But I do think a big part of that was the blowout in Game four, kind of poisoning the.
Data a little bit.
I think I think I trust New York's half court offense a little bit better, And so think of it like this, from the standpoint of the odds, I think the Pacers, I give them like a fifty five to forty five chance to win Game six, right, but I think I give it like eighty twenty in favor of the Knicks in Game seven. So for me, just from the standpoint of like a basic statistical analysis, the Knicks have a pretty good chance to win Game six and a really good chance to win Game seven, And to me,
that makes them the clear favorite. I don't want to write them off entirely, but yeah, I think Jalen Bruns is the best player. I think that they're just a little bit more distant with their effort and energy on both ends of the floor. I just think they're a better basketball team. You know the Haliburton piece, and you
got Logan, you broke it down beautifully. But like one of the things with Taliburton is like he was taking eleven three is a game and hitting over forty percent of them for a few weeks before that game five, and then he goes out and takes four of them, and like I did, I did this bit on my show after that game. You know, I think every single
player archetype has a downside. I think Jocic has a little bit of this too with his playmaking, where it's like, all of a sudden in game two, he's passing a sick but he's he's passing out a single coverage, you know, and it's like, dude, your team's falling apart. You got to be aggressive, you know what I mean? And like that, by the way, Lebron had that a lot over the years, where it's like he's just continuing to make the right play and it's like, yeah, but we need you to
kind of take over the game here. And so some of that is kind of a natural side effect of his personality as a basketball player, but I think it gets exacerbated with his age and some of the stakes at play here because this is this first time being the best player on a chain tam best player on a playoff team, Yeah exactly, I misspoke. The best player on a team that's actually making a playoff run. It's a different vibe entirely than than being in a supporting role. Right,
So I lean, I lean New York. I probably lean in that sixty sixty five to thirty five for them to win the series at this point, feeling pretty comfortable about that, So let's move on to Let's move on to the Mavericks Thunder series. This to me has been a really fascinating exhibition of the downsides of having a really young team. And one of the main things that I point to there is, like, you know, around the league, we're seeing youth actually win, but not youth in the
early twenties. We're seeing youth in the late twenties win.
It's the it's the prime guys. It's the guys in that twenty five to twenty nine range that have kicked the shit out of the thirty to thirty five guys, right, and that that has been kind of the big story of this postseason And one of the things that's really noticed that I've really noticed in this series for the between the thought under in the MAVs is just the Thunder have been unable to reach their ceiling through a lot of young guy decision making mistakes, and the MAVs
have had issues with their stars being consistent, but in terms of overall process, they've been more diligent about getting the right shots and playing for each other and playing to their strengths, which I think is manifested every single time that they've really put their foot on the gas. As a matter of fact, the two losses to me primarily came down to Luca just sucking like in game one, in game four, and as long as Luca reaches a
certain floor, I think they're gonna win. And so we're headed back to Dallas for Game six, which I believe is on Saturday. We'll start with you, Carson, where are you at with this series?
Right now?
I'm confident in Dallas and I would pick them to close it out at home. This should have been over in five, like, if not for an absolute Luca disaster class in game four and of course Shay coming through huge clutch in the well as well, but even Kyrie couldn't make shots in the fourth quarter of that game like that was just such a collective meltdown.
Clearly, we are seeing a.
More consistent level from this Dallas team, because it's exactly like you say, not only has this not been a good Lucas series.
Last game he was really good Kyrie.
A lot of it to me has just been so consistently seeing two defenders, and he's playmaking well. But also I would have liked to see him assert himself more in some of these spots and maybe even go away from pick and roll and just go to work in isolation. He's such a great shot maker, like heats, to me, hasn't quite had the offensive impact you would like to see.
Neither of them have had like the sort of collective big night that we know that they're capable of, partly as a product of scheme, but also just as a product of their performance, the level that they're playing at. And still they're up three to two, and again this series should have been over by now, so I have a lot more confidence in Dallas's role players right now.
I think that PJ.
Washington and Derek Jones are kind of running circles around what you're seeing from the OKC Wings in terms of shot making from PJ, but also just in terms of the physicality, the athleticism, how they're making plays. They are consistently getting the ball to those corners when you're seeing two guys Senate Hyrie and Lucan, they're making shots. And on the flip side, I just think Okac's offense is kind of broken down. Both these teams are having to
deal with awesome rim protection. Like the efficiency in the restricted area for both these teams is just brutal. It's like way below the rest of the field in this series, and you got to give props to Check there, and you got to give props to Gafford Lively there. But one team is still producing, one team is still getting good open looks in the corners, and the other team
is just really struggling to move the ball. They're at times forcing finishes, which is just not going to work out when you're dealing with this level of rimp protection, and they're forcing some shots from beyond the arc as well, like where you make an extra swing pass and you can get a better look. And they also just aren't really knocking down even the decent looks that they're getting from three to oka.
See.
I do think it's more a product of just not having very good shot quality though.
So you can.
Start Isaiah Joe like last game, and then you can't roam off of Josh Giddy super easily. But Isaiah Joe wasn't on as a three point shooter last game, nor was Caseon Wallace, nor was Aaron Wiggins those guys have to make shots to ultimately figure things out.
For Okasee and Jadab has just been really, really rough.
Has not been nearly the second shot creator that they've needed, hasn't been able to consistently create advantages. Also, just has struggled as a shooter, Like he's just off. So when I think about where Dallas is at without getting like really good Lucan Kyrie consistently, they're just checking more boxes. They're physical, the defensive foundation is so strong. I think they can win even more convincingly on the glass than
they have in some of these games. So I would confidently expect them to finish out this series.
I'm with you. I just think Oka see they're incredible what they've done for being so young.
They're the youngest one seed in NBA history. That is awesome, What an accomplishment. But up and down this roster, the dudes other than Shay just aren't ready for this moment yet.
Yeah, the supporting cast has really let Oklahoma City down. And so when you couple in the other factors, like you know, Sga has been pulling his weight, like he's thirty points last game this series, he's thirty two ten and seven on fifty nine percent true shooting. I know
you mentioned this last episode, Carson. When you're facing this kind of defensive intensity and pressure and these kind of packed lanes and all this defensive attention, it really is remarkable that Sga has been this effective and he's playmaked well, like he's seven assists of this series. He'd have way more if his boys could hit a shot, like they're really letting him down. J dub is the guy that
I point the finger at the most. Game Forty's fourteen points on five to nineteen from the field, Game five, he's twelve points on six to thirteen. And you can't overstate like how important three point shooting is to this team. They were number one and three point percentage in the
regular season. Game five, they shoot ten of five already this series, they've been at thirty five percent against Dallas, and outside of Game one, they've shot thirty five percent from below thirty five percent excuse me from deep in four consecutive games against Dallas. So you couple the fact that Oklahoma City has consistently gotten very little from their supporting cast, Dallas has gotten everything, and then you get to the physicality department, which is why I really give
the edge to Dallas. They've won every game on the glass outside of Game one, either plus twelve in defensive rebounds or excuse me, total rebounds or plus nine in offensive rebounds, Like those are just things.
That don't change.
Like, I trust Dallas's defense, I trust them on the glass. If Luca can shut up and stop crying too the reffs and do what he did in Game five, Like, I'm very confident that the Dallas is gonna come through and handle business. But it really comes down to Oklahoma City supporting cast, and I just don't think they have.
Done enough to propel Shae.
Shae has done everything you could have asked for him in this series, Like he has gone above and beyond, and I'm really disappointed at how the supporting cast has let him down in this series.
Yeah, the stat that I gave to just kind of demonstrate the bad process is they're actually shooting forty two percent on a wide open threes in the series. They're making them. The problem is they're only generating sixteen of them. They generated twenty three of them per game in the regular season. They were just so much more diligent.
About that.
Something I've noticed for a long time. I work with a lot of young basketball players, obviously through a bunch of different avenues. I work with the college kids that come back to town. I work with my high school
team that I coach. And one of the most frequent things I noticed, and I've used this kind of like this story on the show before, but like young basketball players struggle to identify what's working and repeat it and then identify what's not working and like trim that fat out of whatever they're doing, is they have a tendency to kind of bounce back and forth and not really be aware of the value of what every possession is. And I think the dead giveaway there is like, look
at how Dallas is, Like PJ. Washington has it going, so they're just like hunting him with skip passes every single time he's being left open. You can literally see Kyrie and Luca like like just trying to find reasons to give him the basketball, you know what I mean. And with Oklahoma City, it's kind of just they're just playing so read and react, but not like not with any sort of diligence and bigger picture sense of what's happening in the game.
Everyone's just kind of playing, you know what I mean.
And I'll see that with young players where it's like you'll you'll run a basic action, maybe it's a ball screen where you're attacking a specific mismatch and this one guy can't guard when a guy's going downhill at him, and you'll get an easy layup. And then you'll go down the floor the next time, and I'll be sitting there thinking like, let's do the same thing again, and then someone will just go off script and take a random pull up jumper and You're like, what are you doing?
We just got an easy layup doing this, So how about we do that until they figure out how to stop it, and then we figure out what we're gonna do next. Right, Like basketball doesn't need to be as difficult it is as it is sometimes And like, honestly, like one of the big things that's dawned to me in this series, I actually do think Oklahoma City has more offensive talent than Dallas, and I think they've demonstrated that throughout the throughout the season.
Right.
The problem is is like Dallas is just playing better basketball. They're just playing a more diligent and smart brand of basketball. I do think one of the things that has stood out in a big way is Dallas's defense is for real, particularly at the perimeter and at the rim. And this is one of those things. I remember after the trade deadline, they went on an East Coast road trip and that was the game where Maxtrus hit the that was the trip where extras It beat him on a on the
full court game winner, if you guys remember. But their defense was just straight ass on that road trip, Like it was so bad. And I remember sitting there thinking like, man like, I don't know if this team is capable of really locking in on that in the way that they need to, but they did down the stretch of the season, and like, I legitimately have been super i
by them in this playoff run. And one of the things too, that I want to say before we move on Tyrie, there are some funky box scores in there, and and like I get it. I know I'm a Kyrie fan, but like, I think he's been pretty damn
good in this series. Like Kyrie is just a basketball player, man Like, he just does all of these little things really well and and just kind of has a feel for like the timeliness of what's happening in a game like he didn't have I can't even remember how many points he scored in Game five, on't much, but he hit this like huge pull up three I want to say it was in the early fourth quarter that put them up fourteen, and like he hadn't even been being aggressive,
but he was aggressive on that possession, and it almost felt like he was like, I can hit the shot. I'm gonna hit it right here. It's just gonna change the mental dynamic of the game because fourteen just feels insurmountable in a lot of ways. And so yeah, like I just want to shout out Dallas. I've been really really impressed with them. They flipped me in the last
month of the season. I had to considerably lower in my contender rankings, and I ended up moving them up to third behind Denver and Boston at the very end of the season after watching that latch that last stretch, just because I thought they were peaking at the right time and I really thought they were figuring some things out defensively, and like it's been cool to kind of see that come to fruition, and I've just been really
really impressed by them and Honestly, I think Dallas. If Dallas and Denver both escape, I think that would be a really really fun Western Conference Finals And to me, that does feel like a proper conference finals type of matchup.
Before we get out.
Of here tonight, I've decided, I've made an executive decision. We're going to We're going to do an additional segment, not gonna be a long one. We're going to rank the top five remaining players in the NBA playoffs. Okay, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it as a group effort and get into a little bit of a debate. Okay, so let's just start with this. We all agree that that Nicole Yoki is at number one?
Correct? Does anybody want to argue that at all? Whatsoever?
No agreed?
Okay, So I've Nicole Jokic at number one. Who's number two? And let's start with you, Carson, who's the second best player remaining in the playoffs?
Right now?
This is in terms of who would I want for the remainder of these playoffs, like based on the level they've been playing.
At purely in a vacuum, playing at this level in a vacuum, but within the scope of this playoff run. So, for instance, I want you to evaluate Anthony Edwards and guys like guys like Jalen Brunston. I want you to evaluate them within the lens of how they're playing in this postseason run.
So that's what makes this tricky, because I do think that Luca is the second best player remaining big picture, I also think Luca has been the second best player on his own team in this playoff run.
And even though he figured a lot.
Of things out last game and got his attitude together, and the pull up jumpers were following in a way they just haven't been, and his decision making was great, and he was getting down hillmore, he was engaged defensively, he's been so so uh, I don't.
Even know if I would say up and down.
It's been more bad than good, considerably more bad than good for Luca considering the standard that we hold him to. To me, ant's been the top two guy in this playoff run. And part of that is like, yeah, he's been unbelievable as a pull up shooter, and he finally had a clunker in Game five where those shots just weren't following, and that was rough. But also like I really like a lot of the shots that he's getting
as a pull up shooter. I don't think it's always gonna be this good, but I also do think it's legitimately better than it was in the regular season, and he has taken a jump in every postseason.
He's defending at a high level.
The athleticism just does not stop his willingness to dominate a game.
I feel like.
He's earned two right now, and that's not big picture, Like I would still have Luca and I would have Sga higher on my player rankings, but An's been It's in these playoffs so far.
Ants number two for me as well, Like when the difference I would make is I think Luca's ceiling is higher, but I think Ant's floor has consistently been higher in these playoffs. Like you know, Ants strong all these double teams too, when his pull up jump shooting isn't hitting and he's making good decisions. But what we were talking about on our show too, is the fact that you know, when Ann gets a double, he's not really gonna make you.
He's not gonna punish you for the worst part, Like he's not ever gonna kick week side to the corner like that nail in the Coffin type pass that's gonna He's gonna make the right decision. And so that's why I say on like it is ceiling when Luca's drawing those kind of coverages and he's on and he's strong and he's getting downhill. Luca, I think is definitively number two. But like the floor that we've gotten from Man has been so phenomenal, And I mean, Jason, you say he's unguardable,
like already I do. Man, nobody can stay in front of the kid. And yeah, the level he's been at, I think he's number two. And almost spoil it a little bit, guys, I think i'd have Luca maybe four or five out of the remaining guys, Like, just with where he's been.
At, where his floor has been at, and where.
He's been at consistently, Luca's probably lower than I would have him at full health.
So I think it's unquestionable that Ant has been the second best player in this postseason run based solely on results, Based on how he's played to this point, I am going to bump him to three for Luca, though, in the sense that even though Luca has had some really bad moments, Like if I was picking players that i'd want to lead my team going into the conference finals, for instance, I just trust Luca a little bit more with his experience and a little bit more of his
like half court surgery type of stuff, to be a little bit more resilient to adjustments and things along those lines over the course.
Of the series.
And it's just a respect to the fact that I do believe Luca is the second best player in the world right now. So I'm gonna go with Luca at two on my list, but I would put Aunt at three. I'm assuming Carson you would put it, or you'd put Luke at three as well, right I would, although I have.
Been concerned by a lot of what we've seen, and I think, like even as his jumpers start falling more, just the fact that he hasn't been getting downhill consistently, and I think the knee is definitely a component in that, Like we are definitely not seeing the Luca that we're used to. So I don't want to be overly encouraged just because Game five was really good, but I do just think he's earned the recognition just because of how great of a basketball player he is and the offensive mastery.
Long story short, Yes, I would still have him at three, even though I definitely don't think he's been at that level consistently in these playoffs.
Okay, so Logan, since you think Luca's at seventeen and he's a bum, who do you have at three?
He's not a bum? Thank you for putting those words in my mouth, Jason.
Luca.
I'm not super encouraged consistency wise, and I agree with you guys, like at full strength, I think Luca's definitively number two. But I think they gave him somebody that good good before Game five, some of that that big Ben's special in his leg, something like that. I think they gave him, you know, some of that you ain't gonna feel it during the game, and I think it was able to get him to lock.
In a little more.
I am just skeptical at how healthy he's gonna be, how much he's moaning at the rest, how much he's concerned with that aspect of the game. Mister consistent has been SGA and like I just bank on it, Like I think that he might be the most consistent scorer in basketball. If I need thirty man Like, No, I wouldn't put him over Yokics, but I might put him too. Sga just has an unstoppable skill set, and I think his playmaking numbers would look better if his teammates were hidden.
Looks like he's been so good as a decision maker, he's been so great at dealing with doubles, he's gotten any bucket that he's wanted, and in the fourth quarter of these games, like he.
Stepped his game up.
It's a It's been about the consistency for me in these playoffs, and Luca has just consistently played below his means. Is that still a really good freaking basketball player. Yeah, but I'd rather take the guy that has been consistently great and great in almost every single game in these playoffs, and that's been Sga. And so again, this is nothing against Luca. I think Luca at full strength is number two, but I wouldn't put him. I wouldn't put him over SGA in these playoffs thus far.
Okay, So I have Carson at Jokic aunt Luca, and I have Logan at Jokic aunt SGA. Correct, I am gonna tweak mine because I made a mistake this was something I intended to do, but I made a mistake. I'm moving Aunt down to four, and I'm putting Jason Tatum at three. And here's the reason why I'm a huge believer in Aunt. I think he might actually be my favorite player. And I think that Ant is going to be better than Jason Tatum within within eighteen months.
Like I think that's how highly I think of Ant. Aunt right now, though, is just a little bit volatile like any other twenty two year old in terms of his like just ability to handle the random kind of curve balls that the NBA Playoffs can throw at you, kind of like him just getting completely, like just completely blindsided by the double teaming in Game five, for instance. I also think has had some really bad defensive moments in this postseason, and he's one of those guys that's
like devastating on the ball. And I thought he had his best defensive game of the postseason tonight against Jamal Murray, much better screen navigation, just stayed attached to him a lot better. But a big part of what happened that kind of hurt the team in Game three. In Game four was and just kept losing Jamal on screens and that's a big weakness in his game at this point. Jason Tatum can be a frustrating basketball player. God knows that.
I've gone into that in excruciating detail over the course of the last few years. And there are things that I despise about his approach, and then I wish that he could get better at in terms of his scoring resiliency, in terms of his ability to be efficient, Like he shot over fifty percent for the first time all postseason last night. Yeah, like he's not having a good scoring playoff front. That said, I think Jason Tatum has been underrated in a bunch of key areas in this playoff run.
First of all, I think he's been unbelievable defensively. He's arguably their smartest and most impactful team defender in terms of like just his versatility's ability to switch everything, like, oh, let's put him on Evan Mobley or like to let's put him on Evan Mobley to start a playoff series so that we can switch ball screens and we know we're not giving up anything there rebounding or imp protection
even like there's just a lot of upside there. He's an excellent rebounder, in a way that I think is really underrated at his position. He's averaging over ten rebounds in the Cavs series. Another big piece of it, too, for me, is like he's uniquely kind of like a nice fit with this group because his passivity and is willing, willingness to just make the right play kind of allows a lot of the other guys to kind of stay
to be more impactful. I think the big weakness of his is like identifying when to be like, no, give me the damn ball and get out of my way. And that's why I don't have him higher on this list. That's why I think that Jokich and Luca are clearly better basketball players than him. Think they just are better at identifying that balance between playing in the flow of
the game versus being really aggressive. So I just think I think right now Tatum's floor is so much higher than Ants, just because he's a more experienced, better kind of like all around basketball player that I'm putting him at three. But to be clear to Ant, I think he's been the second best player in this playoff run to this point. I'm just saying, like if I was peaking players for a seven game series, that started tomorrow
in a vacuum. I think Tatum is just a little bit more reliable in all of the other areas of the game. Where would you guys have Tatum? Would guys have Tatum in your top five?
So I feel very confident about Aunt above him. To me, the gap in defensive consistency does not offset the fact that at the end of the day, I don't think there's any world in which Jason Tatum could have done
could be doing what Anthony Edwards has consistently done. Just as that takeover offensive number one thirty a night on sixty six percent for shooting, and yes hasn't been great as a playmaker, has been mostly good enough when we are talking about projecting this, as I mentioned, like he has an effective field goal percentage of fifty seven and a half on pull up jumpers in the playoffs versus forty four percent in the regular season.
That is not going to be sustained. That is like.
Better than any single pull up jump shooter in basketball this year. But he is in a rhythm right now, and like that rhythm has been pretty consistent over the course of these ten games. I just think Ann is a significantly better score of the basketball. At the end of the day, I think his unrelenting downhill pressure, combined with the fact that right now he is just way better as a pull up shooter.
I just don't think Tatum could do what he's doing right now.
And I don't agree that Tatum is in some ways like a very good connective number one. But also, when you're in Boston, you get to have the luxury of doing that because you can have offensive explosions from Derek White for a series, you can have Jalen Brown be your best offensive player, which I would argue up until last game, like, well, he's been their best score throughout this playoffs. I would say Jalen Brown has been, so I would have Tatum at five.
I would have Sga confidently at four.
I think his floor is a score is just outstanding, and again I think he is capable of providing a consistency there that I don't get from Tatum. SGA shooting fifty three percent from the mid range and even facing as we've talked about, a great defense with great athletes on the perimeter, Derek Jones Junior is a tough draw pack paints. He's the best downhill guard in the league, and he can't get all the way downhill right now, and he is still killing you with great volume and efficiency.
He's still making the right reads, and he's having a real defensive impact. I think Sga is a better basketball player than Jason Tatum, both within the context of this run and outside of it. Five is tough because I really have so much respect for Jalen Brunson and what he's done as an offensive number one. But I do think that is the threshold at which, like the all around value of Tatum does surpass the singular shot making value that you get from Jalen Brunson and playmaking because
he's drawing such obscene amounts of offensive attention. Like, I do think Brunson is clearly a better offensive player, but I do think Tatum is the better all around basketball player, and I would take him going forward. But that's even close to me, So I'd have Tatum five.
Okay, hold on, hold on for a second. Logan, So I've got, I've got. I'm actually putting Jalen Brunson at five. I think that in Wow when you cut, when you kind of yeah, well.
Again, we're splitting hairs here. This is a tier of players.
That's probably six long, not five long, but we're forcing it to five for the sake of some good debate, So I'd have sgah six. And I certainly don't see much of a gap really between three and six, really between two and six, I don't see much of a gap there. Like Joki is kind of on a tier on his own. So don't take this as an insult thunder fans. I just am kind of giving this as a as a an opportunity to shout out Jalen Brunson.
Jalen Brunston, to me, has had kind of a similar job to Shay in this postseason, and I just think
he's done a better job of it. In fact, I would argue that, like there's more pressure on Jalen Brunston to produce every single game, Like to put it simply, like we just talked about how we think the Knicks are gonna beat the Pacers, and it requires Brunson to go score seventy points in those two games or thirty five to forty in a one game if they close it out, Like it is an absolute necessity for Jalen Brunson to just completely tattoo those guys a score as
a score the entirety of one or both of those games, and he just continually shows up every single time they need him to. I think he's one of those guys too, where his like lack of physical imposition on the game kind of makes people think what he's doing is fluky. And look, I need to really really dive into the tape to kind of and I plan on doing that this summer to kind of get like a better feel for what makes Jalen Brunson such dominant score on the surface kind of take on it is like kind of
thirty thousand feet is just he's the ultimate. It reminds me of Kyrie in the sense that, like he literally has every move in the book. Yeah, he can shoot step back threes, he can hit forward moving threes off of ball screens. He can do it going both directions. He can hit pull up mid range jump shots in ball screens. He can hit turn your back to the basket fade away jump shots in ISO and post up situations. He's got all of the floaters and hooks from the
short range, and he can finish at the rim. And he's a great playmaker, and so like he literally can do it all and that in and of itself, I think kind of gives him a level of versatility that he can always kind of throw a change up at whatever defender is guarding him, and that makes him kind of super resilient in these situations. And so even though, like, yeah, in a vacuum, I would take Shay to run a franchise because I think he's younger and more physically gifted
and obviously like there's a lot of upside there. But to me, like Jalen Brunson deserves his flowers for this playoff run, and I think he's just done a better job of what Shay's doing on a nightly basis and a higher pressure situation for a team who needs it more. And so I put Jalen Brunson at five. So Logan, I have you at So that puts my list at jok Luca, Tatum at Brunson, Carson's at Jokic Aunt Luca, Sga Tatum, Logan, I have you at jokic ant Sga, and we need your four and five.
Luca, and then Brunston, I just want to ask real quick, Jason, what do you mean about by his lack of physical imposition?
Like on the game. Like, I think Brunson's a pretty physical guy.
No, he plays a physical brand.
When I say what I mean is he's not particularly fast, he's not particularly strong. Well, he is a strong player for his size, but he's not like particularly big. He's not particularly tall or athletic like. He just he's straight up beating these dudes with with skill development and and just IQ and savvy and audacity and just like Alpha Dog, you can't guard me like that, He's.
Just doing it. I'll tell you that the Baldon stop would love him.
He's just just straight hooping these guys into the dirt.
But he's no Jamal Crawford.
Tell you that the reason I would go with Brunson and like SGA over Tatum.
You make a great argument, I think, Jason.
About what you have Tatum outside the top five entirely, wouldn't.
I mean, I'm I'm the resident Boston Celtics and Jason Tatum hater. I will wear that hat. I will wear the hat. I will be the spokesperson for the campaign.
Yeah.
Like, I think you make a great case for Tatum with what he brings defensively, with how great he has been on the boards and how imperative that is to Boston's winning formula, Like without Christoph Sporzingis, Boston is kind of at a significant size and interior disadvantage with Horford, Like you need Tatum to play that role. And so I think he's great at those things and all the extra things, but I just don't think Jason Tatum could
do what Jaylen Brunston is doing right now. I don't think Jason Tatum could do what shake Gilges Alexander is doing right now. Like Saston, Tatum has such a high ceiling when his pull up jumper is going, and that's great, but I've also seen Jason Tatum's offensive floor.
And it's a pit man, it is a big hole.
Like I just Tatum brings such a lack of offensive consistency that I would always take Brunton and Sga over them because I can just count on these guys to consistently deliver. I don't trust Jason Tatum consistent to consistently deliver. Like he's got all the tools, he's got all the traits, but it's about putting it together. And SGA and Brunson to me clear him as number one scorers and number one playmakers and I just value their offensive skill sets
more than Tatum. I don't know why you guys are surprised, Like I had Tatum outside of my top ten players playoffs.
Yeah, like I'm not.
Tatum is hotly, It's not a big gap for me. Like I do view Tatum more highly as an overall basketball player. However, what Brunson is doing right now is ridiculous and there's nothing.
Fluky about it. I compare them, I don't know.
Six weeks ago maybe, or really he and this whole next team to being very iverson and early two thousand and six ers esque, and that you have this team that is built on high effort, defensive minded guys. It's different, of course, because now it's twenty twenty four and most of these dudes can shoot, but you have no other shot creators, and you have this small guard who has to bear a ridiculous offensive burden, and it's not possible
to be super efficient under those circumstances. Like Jalen, Brunson's true shooting percentage is fifty four in these playoffs, well below the average. There's no question he has been one of the best offensive engines because he is the only reliable shot creator.
And my gun.
Yeah, none of them are shots of offense. Yeah, none of them are bad shots because they literally need hit.
Like if he takes a tough traundateaway, You're like, that's the highest value shot they can get on this possession. And then honestly, like most of one of the things that you're hitting there too, with the fifty four percent for shooting percentage, it's being amplified by offensive rebounding because he's just getting so many additional attempts.
That's true.
So what I think is really interesting about the Brunton Tatum dynamic is like there's no question that both of them is very much engineered for their current situation. Like Jason Tatum is never going to need to carry the offensive burden that Jalen Brunson does as a scorer, as a creator, him being such a strong part of that connected elite when they're dialed in defense, that's what the
Boston Celtics need. Whereas I think if Jason Tatum were on the New York Knicks, like you would not be seeing the level of offensive production that you're getting from
Jalen Brunson. So that one is legitimately tough to me but when I think about the ceiling of configuring a team around either one of them, I do think it's a little bit higher with Tatum, just marginally so, because of course Brunson's doing this under difficult circumstances, but he's never going to be like the most efficient offensive number one because of some of his size limitations.
He's incredible.
And then it is like the gap in the two way impact and Jason Tatum being one of the best rebounders in these playoffs. And by the way, that's part of the reason that I go SGA over Bruntson. It's not purely about the offensive impact. It's not to say that Brunton is bad defensively. We all know he's a champion charge taker, but like SGA is making impactful plays as a help or he's averaging like over three stocks a game, like he's not all world there, but he's
legitimately quite good. And I think that that's where the gap is as much as anything.
This was fun.
Yeah, one last thing I want to hit just on the Tatum thing, Like, I let's not forget it that he does play one of the most important positions athletically in the league, which is like that big forward, Like, this is the guy that's responsible for low man responsibilities a lot of the time. This is the guy that has to clean up the defensive glass a lot of the time. This is the guy that has to usually staying with a larger post player. Yeah, exactly, And so
like I think that like we again, I believe. I think I believe truly everything I said about as it pertains to Tatum. I think that ants ceiling is a pull up jump shooter in his first step are just gonna be what a to enter into conversations both currently and all time that Tatum is kind of incapable of entering into that said, like, focusing on the scoring is
just one small part of what Jason Tatum does. And as much as he's been frustrating and plateauing as a pull up shooter and as an efficient scorer, especially in the postsetting or in the postseason setting, his overall impact
has been ascending. In my opinion, I thought the end of that game against Cleveland last night was one of his best moments as an NBA player in the sense that like he just looked like the old savvy like it reminded me of like Lebron where it's like he's not doing anything stupid other than just looking the direction the defense is leaning and throwing basic swing and skip
passes that set guys up for success. And so I just want to make sure that Tatum gets the appropriate level of respect that he deserves that goes beyond just the scoring piece. All right, before we get out of here, guys, why don't you tell me a little bit about what you're working on over at the nerd Sets channel. Everybody who's tuned in tonight, make sure you guys head over there and hit that subscribe button for them. They're doing
a bunch of really cool stuff. Carson's going to tell you about it right now.
Yeah, So we are at nerd Sash.
First of all, of course, appreciate you having us on as always, Jason, a bunch of fun. Very glad that you added that segment. Also the top five players that was fun fun. I thought that was great. So yeah, follow us at nerd Sash on YouTube. We are doing almost nightly shows. We're reacting to a bunch of these games. We're actually gonna take tomorrow night off, but then we'll be back on Saturday. On top of that, you can
watch all of our shows on our YouTube page. We also are doing some in depth video breakdown film driven content. I just made a video about why Yoki is the best score on the planet right before they lost by forty five, so go check that one out.
Beautiful timing by me, O, my, and Yeah.
You can follow us across social media if you want, Instagram and TikTok at Nerd, sash, Twitter, at nerd, Underscore, sesh. We do a bunch of trivia content there on top of posting some clips from the show to get more of our analysis, so that pretty much covers it.
Thank you guys seriously for taking the time tonight. I know, short notice, but when we get a team losing by fifty in the playoffs, it's no longer no longer makes sense for me to get up here and talk to x's and o's about what's going on. So I appreciate you guys taking the time out of your night to make this happen. All of you guys supporting the show obviously, it means the world to me that you guys keep rocking with us as we get through this playoff run. Again,
it means a lot to me as well. If you guys head over to nerd Session and subscribe and support those guys are doing great work over there. That's all we have for tonight. I may or may not do something with film in the morning. We'll see how I feel when I wake up. And then we're for sure going live after the final buzzer of Nick Pacers Game six, so I will see you guys.
Then the volume