The volume.
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responsible gambling resources. All right, welcome to hoops tonight. Here at the Volume, we have a very special show today. The guys from Nerd Sesh are coming to hang out. I have my list of contenders, which I believe is nine teams long, and the nine included a couple of fringe teams as well. So I've got eleven total teams and we're going to play a game. And the way this game is going to work is we're going to play higher or lower. And what that means is we're
going to go through each team. We're going to talk about whether or not we are higher on that team than we were at the beginning of the season or lower on that team than we were at the beginning of the season. So you can't whimp out if you're on the fence. If you feel the same, you still have to lean one way or the other that's the game. But we're very excited to have Carson and Logan coming
on the show today. Let's start with my number one championship contender coming into this season, the Denver Nuggets, Carson, Are you higher or lower on them than you were at the start of the season.
So this is close to the scenario that you just described where I feel very similarly about this team, but I would say I'm a little bit higher on them. They are my title front runner right now, and part of that is a team like Milwaukee that I viewed on the same level, I now have more concerns about, so by at least maintaining their level, the Nuggets move up compared to them.
But also there are some things on the margins.
Reggie Jackson has been legitimately really impressive this year, and I think has brought some value to that second unit, which has always been sort of sketchy. You can have Jamal with those bench only units, but they have been lacking sort of in some offensive pop there, and he has been better than I expected. And then I think you look at some of the young guys on the wings. Christian Brown had some awesome moments in that playoff run, last year but was inconsistent. I think that he is
a better all around player now in year two. Peyton Watson, I think you see the value of his athleticism, what he can do as a two way guy. His SHOT's been solid, So it's really just the depth stuff where I think that they've improved a bit compared to my preseason expectations. But the fundamental formula is the same. Best player on the planet, this perfect cohesive starting five. They're huge in the front court, they have awesome shooting. It's
just the best offense in basketball. And I think that they can defend at a high level. So they are all so my title favorite.
Yeah, I completely agree with Carson, and I think performance wise, record wise, I think i'd probably say that I'm lower on the Nuggets relative to the beginning end of the season. What I mean by that is, I just was so confident in Denver being the runaway number one seed in the Western Conference. But like Carson said, we're not basing this off of you know, record or anything. We're basing this off of what I expect them. They're moving forward.
They are my title contender. Toad on that, I think Jokichen Murray are still the best duo in all of basketball, and I just have a different level of faith with this team continuity wise, defensively, chemistry wise, and the role players have gotten better. The Nuggets were not my title favorite. I was a Los Angeles Lakers enthusiast. The Nuggets are my title favorite now and I have come around. I'm very high on the Nuggets.
So I'm higher as well. I had one concern, and I want to get back. I want to go round again to kind of get your guys' take on this. But the thing with Yokicic's jump shot concerns me a little bit, Like it's down almost twenty percent inefficiency from where it was last year. And last year he was efficient throughout the regular season and then was efficient in the postseason. The year before, he struggled in the regular season, and then he struggled in the postseason, And so it
does concern me a little bit. But I think it's made up for the fact that they've been a much better regular season defense than they were last year. They've had a couple of months, specifically October and December, where they were both in those two months among the best defenses in the league. Reggie Jackson. You mentioned the offensive stuff. I actually like the way he's been competing on defense too. It's just another guard that'll fight over the top of
the screen and compete. And then again, Peyton Watson just kind of replacing that Bruce Brown athleticism off of the bench, and Christian Brown as well. There's enough there to kind of make up for any sort of concern about Jokic's jump shot as it pertains to comparing to where I felt before the season. That said, as we know specifically in the Lakers series that over the top shot making was an important part of Denver's success. So let's start
with you, Carson. Are you concerned at all about Jokic's jump shot and what that might mean for this year's postseason run?
Not really, just because I still think in the scope of things, he's shooting the ball pretty damn well. He's thirty five percent from deep, which is a little bit below where he was last year in the regular season, and certainly not at the level he was at in the postseason, where he was forty six percent from three, And we know that that is the one component that makes him truly unguardable when in that pick and pop game.
You can't leave him.
When as a spot up guy he can hit forty five percent of his three's, blending that with the interior scoring dominance in playmaking. That's when it's like, cool, this is the best offensive player that we've ever seen. And he hasn't been at that level of sharp shooting, but fifty two percent for mid range. His bread and butter shots there are still mostly falling. We have seen that
he can run hot and cold. It feels like every year he has that one little stretch where he's down, but generally when it comes to the postseason when it matters most, he's able to deliver with that big time skilled shot making.
And I still have a lot of faith that he will.
And it's important to preface that the last playoff run was one of the greatest runs ever by any player ever. To expect Jokic to be back at that level would to be to expect another one of the greatest runs ever. And while his perimeter shooting maybe down, like over his last ten games he's only shooting one to three a night, I still think he's getting to his good looks and there's just a level of confidence I have with Jokic is a shooter. He's just he's got great touch. Great shooters.
That touch doesn't wane away, it doesn't leave you. He may be hitting a skid this year, but I think when it comes to playoff time, when the chips are down, there's nobody in the NBA that I have more confidence in showing up and performing than NICOLEA Jokicic.
Yeah, to me, the optimism is that they didn't just win last year, they dominated last year. So like that there's this margin for error there. I do think the gap is a little bit more substantial than people realize. Like, yeah, he was a Jokic jump shot was worth one point two to one points for shot in the poseason last year, which is like absolutely insane, but it was worth one point one seven for the entire regular season. So like
he shot nearly that level the entire regular season. He's down at one point zero four points per jump shot in this season. And we did see, like again in that Sixers game, there's a tendency that teams have right now to ignore him on the pick and pop, which was not a thing that you saw last year. Last year, there was so much more like driving that close out as guys are chasing him off of the three point line, so I do think it's worth mentioning. But again, they
dominated last year, so there's a hefty gap. And then there's just so much more other things with Denver to be excited about, as it pertains to their defense and the young athleticism on the roster. Popping all right, moving on to my number two championship contender, the Boston Celtics. Logan, are you higher or lower on the Boston Celtics than you were to start the season.
I can't believe I'm saying this, because my expectations were so high for the Boston Celtics coming into this year, I'm higher on them. This Celtics team is historically great. Just thirty one teams since two thousand have notched thirty two wins in their first forty one games. Ten of those teams won the title, and additional three made the NBA Finals, so the track record is good, and it's just such an absurdly talented collection of players.
Tatum, JB.
Porzengis, Holiday D White, Horford shooting the hell out of the ball. He's over forty percent this year, and they jill really well together. An interesting stat that I found about this team. Against the Spurs, the Celtics became the second only team in NBA history to make at least eleven more three pointers than their opponent in three consecutive games. The only other team to do that is the twenty sixteen Warriors. And I just think that speaks to how
Boston can just boat race teams. They can just shoot you out of games. And it's a double it's a double edged sword because the one part of me says, come playoff time, they can just blow out teams game to game if they get hot. There's so many shooters down this roster that they can just shoot you out. But I also think there's a really heavy reliance on the three ball. That scares me that when they need shot variants the playoffs and they need to vary up
that shot selection, can they do it. I'm higher on them because I've been so impressed at the talent. I've been so impressed at the defense and the shooting ceiling. I'm still a little scared about the Celtics in big moments, in grimy games and those rock fights that we see. Can they get it done. That being said, i am higher on them. This is a historically great start to this regular season.
I'm higher on the Celtics two. I think that they have separated from the Bucks in terms of my Eastern Conference contenders, and so that's kind of the standard that I'm holding them to when I'm looking at how i feel relative to preseason expectations. And this is one of the most overwhelmingly talented basketball teams at the top of the roster that we've seen, and especially in terms of
the third through fifth guys. To have legitimate All Star level players in terms of impact with Drew and KP and Derek White, dude to just makes so many winning plays in their respective ways. To compliment your two big time shot creators and shot makers on the wings, it's just really ideal modern basketball construction. I loved the KP addition.
I thought some people undersold that he was legitimately coming off of a career year in Washington, and I understand that people didn't really value it that much in that situation, but he was defending at the highest level we'd seen. He was doing the most effective mismatch attacking and bullying out of the post that we'd ever seen, and that
stuff has really translated. He adds a new dimension to this offense to me in terms of having that reliable guy who can finish around the rim on the interior, who can just brutalize mismatches out of the post where he has been mind bendingly efficients and overall just break that reliance on the three ball that Logan's talking about a bit, where you're not just necessarily settling for pull up three after pull up three or one pass catch
and shoot threes. As we've seen, that's when things can go a little bit south for Boston, even though they are a great shooting team. They can get off there and then that's when the lulls can start to develop. And he's been an awesome interior defender, Like one of the most effective rim protectors in the league, Derek White was awesome stall star break, he's been even better this year.
And when you look at crunch time offense, where the Celtics process has always been a bit of a concern, Tatum and Jalen breaking down a bit as playmakers turning the ball over too much settling for tough shots.
He's a guy you can lean on. In fact, it's a small sample size.
With all clutch stats in a regular season, but the Celtics offense has been great there and specifically KP is their number one clutch score and Derek White is their number three clutch score, so they just have more dues
this year you can lean on in those settings. And I do think that Jason Tatum has improved, and there may be nothing on the ross stat sheet that reflects that, but the one complate that I've most consistently had about his game is that predictability and the reliance on the pull up threes in the postseason, and how his game can sort of fade away if those shots just aren't falling. He has really increased his post up volume this year
and he has been awesome in those spots. He's averaging one point two points per post up, so he's been more physical in those situations, and we're seeing more shot variety for him, more comfort attacking from the mid range. So the Celtics just look better across.
The board to me.
Really, my only concerns are big depth if KP goes down, because we know that he is a historically very injury prone player, and I guess I would say that consistent crunch time offense and the ability still potentially to fall into those rules. But I am far less concerned about
that this year than last year. It's just still a difference maker when I compare them to for example, Denver, and I do think that Denver has the more reliably great offense because they have the best player on the floor because he is always going to generate those high quality looks around the rim and in the paint, and they also have this elite shooting. But Boston is a phenomenal basketball team.
Yeah, there's less variance with what Denver does. I think that's what makes them a bit of a safer bet. And again, when we're talking about flaws with Boston, it's important to mention that, like there's a big drop off after this point in my opinion, and so that means like when we're discussing flaws.
It's all relative to the field.
I think there's a lot of like specific things that they're better at than I expected. Tatum just being way bigger than he was last year has helped a lot. You talked about the leaning more on the post up attack as a method of just generating higher quality shots around the rim. Big shots chrisps porzingis fit ended up being perfect. They're leaning more into Derek White as an initiator.
That's been kind of like their counter to some of Tatum's decision making stuff is like have him set ball screens for Derek White and kind of see if they can get some stuff out of that. The shooting variance thing is interesting because like, first of all, there's a lot more highs than lows on that front.
Yeah, I don't think.
People realize just how crazy that stat Logan through out was, Like, think about that, over a three game stretch they outscored their opponent by more than one hundred points from the three point line, like that. That's absolutely insane, right, Like, that's a completely insane stat That said, I do think we're underplaying the Tatum pull up shooting thing a little bit.
He's in a red hot stretch right now.
He's twenty two for his last forty five over the Celtics last ten games, which is like almost a point and a half per shot, So like really really useful there. But it's very clear that Tatum's leaning into it, like he's hunting the pull up three. That is what he wants to take. The dead giveaway to me was he got Carl Towns on a switch at the end of the Minnesota Timberwolves game and had space to operate and looked for and made a move hunting a pull up three in a game where they were down by four
in the final minute. So that tells you a lot about Tatum's approach. So last question before we move on from Boston, and I'll start with you, Carson, like, are you concerned at all about the fact that Tatum seems to be tying a good chunk of his success to whether or not to pull up three point shot falls.
Yes, I am, and I.
Don't mean to underplay that concern because I think that that has been a fundamental issue with the Boston Celtics, and they have been an extremely talented team. They're even more overwhelmingly talented now. But at the end of the day, I still think they need Jason Tatum to play at that consistent superstar level over the entirety of a playoff run. And he has had such high highs, but he has also had uncharacteristically low lows for a player.
Of that caliber.
Like the meme of how every other game or every three games, Jason Tatum's gonna shoot thirty percent is very real, and it's because of that heavy reliance on pull up threes where over the last couple seasons he's on a tear right now, but he hasn't that reliably been a very efficient pull up three point shooter, and he wasn't in the playoff run last year. So yes, I do
think that that can bite them. And if I had more confidence in Tatum, like just consistently attacking from all over the floor, not falling into that over reliance on the pull up three, maybe Boston would be my title favorite. But it is the little things like that that still hold them back when I compare them to such a reliable juggernaut like Denver.
It is the little things like that.
And for example, I mean when he's in these lulls too, Tatum has the tendency to keep trying to shoot himself out of the lull, you know what I mean, In those late game situations, I just think the more easy offense is a kick down to the low block Tatum literally just driving and trying to get downhill and get the ball to touch the paint to collapse the defense that I know, Carson, I know, and I agree with a lot of what you said with White, with Borzingis,
with Tatum playing better and being more dynamic. That is still my chief concern about the Boston Celtics. I don't know how it can be like they're going to give the rock to Tatum and it is on his shoulders to close out games when it comes to playoff time. That's still my biggest red flag about Boston and why I can't put them over Denver.
To Carson's point, there have been eight games this season when Tatum shot below forty percent from the field. As a point of comparison, Shae yild justs Alexander has only had three such games. So that goes to show you just some of the variants as it pertains to the types of shots that Jason Tatum takes and how that can lead him to have some.
Really really rough nights.
All right, moving on to my number three, can tender the Milwaukee Bucks? Starting with you, Carson, are you lower higher or lower than you were on the Milwaukee Bucks before the season.
I'm lower because they were my pick actually to win it all. I had them beating Denver in seven in my theoretical finals because I looked at this roster and I thought the one thing that this team has been missing consistently is that seamless, dynamic shot creator in the half court, and I thought there are very few guys
who fill that role better than Damian Lillard. What I underestimated in that equation was how significant the step back this team would be would take defensively was because we are now looking at a team that is still struggling mightily with point of attack defense, that is twentieth in defensive rating, and that really consistently struggles to stop anyone.
I also think that because of just the increased trend we've seen of them getting smaller and less athletic in the backcourt, this has gone from a dominant rebounding team, which they've consistently been with that huge front line with a bigger, more athletic, better rebounding guard like Drew Holiday to a team that is eighteenth in rebound rate. So just overall, that defensive ceiling has gone way, way, way down, and I don't see easy fixes on this roster. They're
playing a guy like Andre Jackson Moore. He's doing a good job. Ultimately, he's not a dude who I think that you can lean on in a playoff run because offensively. I think that he's a guy who teams are probably going to ignore and he won't be able to make them pay. Marjon Bouchamp isn't a guy who's at that level, so that still needs to be addressed. And I think that the pipe dream of like an Alex Caruso is gone. I just don't think they have the assets to make
that happen. I would be targeting a Quenton Grimes if I were them, because New York is apparently looking to move him. I think that his value is at an all time low. And no, that's not an ideal solution, but I do think it's an upgrade in terms of filling that three and D point of attack defender role. And then I have a couple other little concerns about Milwaukee, like Chris Middleton has been trending in the right direction, he's playing more. I would say that he's been good
in his minutes. I just at this point am questioning can he play thirty two minutes a game over an entire playoff run? Can he stay healthy? Can he be at the level that they need? I still totally believe in him as a difficult shot maker and a playmaker.
I worry though, a bit.
About the athleticism at his age, the two way impact of the rebounding and Dame. I would say I have been a bit underwhelmed by just because he was coming off of maybe the best offensive season of his career, and I thought this will be a great situation playing with jan It's an awesome spot up shooting, but I think it's mostly just a shot making issue with him. Like his touch, shot making has been a bit off. He hasn't shot as well from three as we're used to.
I still think he's a really good fit here. Defensively he's not been nearly good enough, but offensively, I still think he does solve a ton of their issues and they've been a really, really good offense this year. The tandem of him and Yannis, to me, still gives them a real chance against anybody. But the defensive issues are more pronounced than I expected.
For sure.
Yeah, I wanted to straddle defense on the Bucks. This is kind of what I expected from Milwaukee. I am lower on the moving forward, and it is because of the defense. Wonder if we took coach Budd a little for Granted, I know it's hard stepping in as a new coach, But I don't really think Adrian Griffin really has anything schematically or anything they can do in game. I think that really matters when it comes to playoff time. And I also don't think they have the personnel another
defensive stet. The Milwaukee Bucks are once again the worst in the NBA forcing turnovers. They've lowest turnover rate defensively in the NBA. That matters to me too. Not only can they not get stops, they can't force big plays and get out and transition as easily as they used to. I think they need to make a move personnel wise. I think they have to go out and get somebody. But I don't really think this team can stop anybody that can get to the rack come playoff time, and.
That matters to me.
Like I think that it would make a series against the Knicks competitive. I think it would make a series against the Miami Heat competitive, Like I think the Bucks as great as they are offensively, and I agree with Carson, I would never count out a tandem of Dame and Giannis out from the finals. I think it's going to be a sweat against any team that Milwaukee goes up against because of the issues defensively.
Yeah, I I'm lower as well. I started the season with them at number two originally, and then I moved the Celtics over them. The point of attack defensive issues ended up being way worse than I even thought they would be. You know, Dame was a really bad defensive player in Portland, but I always cut him the slack because that just wasn't what that team did well. Like, it was like it didn't even make sense for Dame to compete at the point of attack. They didn't even
have a good back line defensively. But he's been like because I've watched so much tape on the Bucks this year, keying in on their defense, and like Malik Beasley's trying. He really is trying. He's just he's just a little he's small. He's a little small. And then like one out of every four possessions he'll make a mental mistake of some kind. But like he's trying, but like Dame could give a shit, Like, for lack of a better term,
he is. Some of the most embarrassing defensive clips I've seen from a guard this season have come from Damian Lillard, and I'm not sure if that's one of those things where he plans on gearing up when they get closer to the postseason, or plans on making those efforts when he gets there. But they need to be transcendently great offensively to make up for the defense that they have.
Now.
The offensive metrics they put up have been good, but there have been some stretches, particularly at the end of games, where they get a little indecisive about what they want to do. There's still some stuff with the Damiannis pick and roll where I feel like they're leaving some meat on the bone.
There's still some.
Stretches where you can tell Chris is like, hey, why am I not getting the ball more? Or Chris has the ball and you're like, hey, why isn't Dame involved in this sequence right now? There's still some stuff that they have to sort out on that front. And then there's just some bad vibes like this team is what twenty eight and twelve or twenty and thirteen, something like that.
They have the third best record in the league, and they just have these lifeless efforts on some of these nights where you're like, what is going on with this team? Which is almost it's just weird to even imagine a team that's a bottom ten defense that has the third
best record in basketball. Like, it almost doesn't even make sense. Now. Yeah, I like the idea of Quinton Grimes because I do think that he is a much much better point of attack defender than Malik Beasley, And if they get somebody like that, I think that could go a long way towards helping their issues. But I keep coming back to this, and this is my major concern. They're slow. Yeah, whenever
Giannis isn't out there, they are a slow team. I don't know if either of you guys managed to catch that Calves game the other night, but like they got boat raced and they literally looked like they were stuck
in the muddy. It literally looked like it looked like when I was in Juco and every once in a while at the beginning of the season, they'd schedule like a bunch of dudes in their thirties to come play in an exhibition game because they needed to fill thirty games on the schedule, and so we'd play like I
remember we did this in Utah. We played like a team of a bunch of like dudes from like Salt Lake City who came down and played against us who were just like former college players, but we were just so much faster, you know what I mean. Like, that's literally what reminded me of watching that game. I'm like, holy crap, It's like they are just standing around. They look like shocked by the speed of the calves and
they're just it down the other way in transition. Obviously, Jannis didn't play in that game, but that's the concern is outside of Jiannis, they just don't have a lot of team speed, all right. Moving on to number four on my list, a team that wasn't even on my contender list to start the season, the Los Angeles Clippers. Logan, are you higher or lower on the Clippers than you were to start the season.
I'm much higher on the Clippers. I don't ever really buy into Clippers hype period. I mean, there's an organizational track record, there's an injury history with all of these guys. I was very, very very low on the Clippers heading into this season, and then obviously they make the James Harden deal, and I was pretty low on them after
the Harden deal. I didn't really have high expectations, and I've been really impressed with James Harden, his commitment to playing a role and feeding these other guys, Like this stat kind of blew me away. Guys, He's got the highest plus minus of any Clipper over the last ten games, and that is even with while he's shooting fifteen points a game, pretty in a fit, shooting forty percent from
the field thirty eight percent from deep over that time period. Like, he's just a valuable asset on the court, And I think there's a there's a better fit in La than in Philly. Obviously there's a lot of alleviated pressure off of his shoulders. He's no longer the number two guy. He can play the number three guy here. So I think Harden deserves a ton of credit for what he's done.
And then I think the other guy that I think is an unsung hero of this Clippers team is Big Zoo, Like they just have such a great interior anchor here. He is a consistent play finisher. He's an awesome big body to have underneath the rack. And he's holding players twelve point four percent below their average field goal percentage inside six feet minimum six shots defended per game. That's the fourth best mark.
In the NBA.
On top of those two guys who deserve credit. I think there's really good depth here. Bones Man Powell, Westbrook, Plumbley Kawhi is playing out of his mind.
I'm very high on the Clippers.
The only concern that I have is the one that I mentioned at the top of this, and that is injury concerns come playoff time. I just don't know if these guys can be healthy. But if they're healthy, I think the.
Clippers are a very very scary team to run into. They've been elite.
Offensively, and then you just think about personnel wise and anchor like big Zoo on the inside, and they've got two big wing stoppers that they can throw at your two best perimeter offensive players. I like the Clippers a lot. I was not anticipating saying that at the start of the year. I am much much higher on LA.
Yeah, I'm much higher on them as well, much higher than I was on them preseason, and much higher on them than I was at the moment that they made the hard and trade, which I thought was the right thing for them to do, because if they didn't do it, I was worried that they would just completely lose out on any sort of Kawhi PG window, and their priority is just clearly winning basketball. Steve Balmer is out there and his construction hat talking up the wall like they
got the new arena. They need to win basketball games, and retaining Kawhi and PG was really the only way for them to do that. And adding a guy like James Harden, I think at least unlocked a ceiling or would unlock some optimism where it's okay, we can work with this now that we have this third star. But they have been legitimately great over these last thirty games. Now ever since that early skid with Harden their top three in offensive rating, and it's a very intuitive formula.
They have elite shooting with multiple killer ball handlers, and Harden really has been an awesome fit. There's been two things over the years that I'm like, all right, the Clippers need offensively. One of them is a consistent rim pressure, which I still think this team is missing, and that's one of the concerns that I have about them, as good as they are, and a more intuitive lead playmaker.
They've always relied very much on PG and Kawhi to create everything for this offense from the wings, and I've just felt like sort of what we've seen with Boston.
The Clippers were always a better version of that, but it does help to have a guy who really can lean on for that decision, making that high end pick and roll feel setting people up, and Harden has done an awesome job of that, and he has just been brutalizing dudes with efficient scoring over the course of this season because now oftentimes he's getting team's third best perimeter defenders in isolation. There's just not a lot of dudes who can do anything with James Harden if you're the
team's third best perimeter fender. And I do have the utmost faith in Kawhi. I think that there are some dudes who have made really strong cases this year, but Kawhi is probably still one of the five dudes who I want most over a playoff run if I know
that he is healthy. I think that he has a legitimately unstoppable scoring formula because he is so great as a pull up shooter and because he can get to his spots at will, because he's strong enough out of isolation, out of the post to just work his way to that mid range area and consistently devastate you and like since he got to LA he has been spectacular and
basically every single playoff run. And the other positive of the hard move is that you don't have to rely on like the Russ swing factor roller coaster as much as I would have expected before the year, because we saw.
He had some good moments in the playoff run where they needed him.
To step up, and he had some ugly moments and he always has and he always will. So I definitely feel much better. I do have some concerns. One is the rim pressure. As I'm me int, they have been better at it this year than ever before, but in previous playoff runs, and we've talked about this before, the Clippers have been so reliant on the three ball and on their pull up jump shooting, and that's just going
to be a volidle experience. And consistently, in the series they've won, they have shot the lights out, and in the series they have lost, it's been because they haven't been able to consistently knock down those threes and they don't have enough other alternatives. They don't have enough consistent rim pressure. There's still twenty second in field goals made inside five feet this year. It's better it's not an ideal number. I'm still worried about James Harden regressing in
the playoff. There's less of a scoring burden on him than ever before, which is great, but I still worry about his ability to consistently get to and finish around the rim when he's not getting foul calls in a more physical environment against playoff defenses. We saw last year
he was brutal around the rim. He shot like thirty percent in the playoffs around the rim, and that led to this crazy volatility where yeah, if his step back threes were money, then he could go off, and he was utilizing the mid range more.
But I'm still worry worried.
About his game scaling as well as the postseason, because it really never has. I'm worried if this team can reach an elite two way ceiling. They're thirteenth in defensive
rating over the last thirty. It's solid. It's not great, though, And when they have to match up against some of the huge teams out West, I don't think that they're like totally outclass there because they have Kawhi and PG who are bigger wings, and then they they're not like fours though they're kind of in this range where they're like big for threes and then Zoo can match up physically.
But compared to like Denver, compared to Minnesota, they're not as huge in the front courts, So it's tough for me to bet on them against Denver. But overall, they're a really good basketball team and they're a real threat in a way that I didn't quite anticipate.
Yeah, I'm much higher on the Clippers with well big shock. It's hard not to be when they want seventeen out of twenty games at one point. It's funny I kind of divide the NBA teams into like different archetypes for lack of a better word. To me, there's like the big classic traditional playoff teams, and this is your Denver, your Milwaukee, your Lakers, your Minnesota Timberwolves. These are the teams that I have massive front lines and they're big
on like physical imposition on the game. And then there's like these perimeter oriented, driving, kick, pull up shooting, skill finesse teams. And to me, the best team in that group is the Celtics, but the second best team in that group is obviously the Clippers. I take them over the Thunder. I'd take them over the New Orleans Pelicans. I take them over the Phoenix Suns. Like those are all those teams, whether whether it's Brandon Ingram, or it's
Shay Gildas Alexander or CJ. McCollum, or it's you know, Paul George, Kawhi, Leonard, all those guys, Like I just trust Paul George and Kawhi and James Harden and that group on both ends of the floor and more than I trust any of those other groups, not just from the same point of skill either, but in terms of experience. And Kawhi does bring a physical imposition on the game. It's kind of similar to with Boston, Like Boston's a
little bit of both. Like Boston has this kind of skill approach, but Jason Tatum is just a huge person, and chrisops Zingis brings real rim protection and Drew Holliday brings a real perimeter strength element right even Jalen Brown as well. So like that archetype there in the Western Conference, at least the Clippers are the best version of that. I think the hard and fit piece you know, you
brought up Russell Westbrook. Russell Westbrook has great highs and great lows, and it buys Tyleru just the ability to kind of like make a call like, Okay, tonight's not the night. We're leaning more on Terrence Man. Oh, this is good Russ' night. We're leaning more on Russ, like he can kind of make that call. And to the point that Logan made even in terms of wing stoppers, Terrence Man and Russell Westbrook in the playoffs last year
kind of showed this as well. But having those guards that can take some of those high leverage point of attack assignments too, it puts all that length and athleticism off the ball, which can cause some problems too defense for offenses, when you have Kawhi and Paul George kind of ranging off the play with all their length and their IQ, James Harden to just setting people up with incredible spot up opportunities. The Clippers have been the best
three point shooting team in the league this year. Norman Powell and Paul George have been two of the very best spot at players in the league at volume this year. Paul George is just getting It's like he's playing King of the court in a close out setup where like you have to throw the ball in like the from under the basket and close out to the three point line like he's just playing one on one with a huge advantage. He's been their best player over the last
month too. Uh. The injury risk is a real thing, Yeah, but it's just not worth talking about because like one of two things.
Is gonna happen.
They're either they're gonna get there and they're gonna be hurt and we can write them off, or they're gonna get there and they're gonna be healthy, and we need to kind of conceptualize what it's gonna look like if they're healthy. And if they're healthy, it's gonna be Qui fighting to spots. It's gonna be James Harden setting them
up for good opportunities. You're right, like, uh, James Harden is getting the third best perimeter defender instead of the second, instead of honestly the best, like in Philly he was getting the best perimeter defender. Right, So, like all of that stuff is worth bringing up, and I again, a lot has to go right for them. I'm major concerns. Are there a bad defensive rebounding team and they rely
almost entirely, not almost entirely. But their bread and butters pull up jump shots, so like a lot of pull up jump shooting. They take the second most in the league. I think only the Dallas Mavericks take more if I remember correctly. And then they and then they don't defensive rebound, well those are two. And then they don't score a ton in the paint either. They're like seventeenth or eighteenth
in points in the paint per game. So like those are like three historical markers that tell us that this kind of a team typically doesn't win the title. But how often do we have James hard and Paul George and Kawhi Leonard all on the same team in NBA history too, So I think that's worth mentioning. They're looking a lot more like what I expected the Suns to look like during the regular season, which is like outskilling teams, you know what I mean. So credit to the Los
Angeles Clippers, all right. Number five, the Los Angeles Lakers, Carson, Are you higher or lower on the LA Lakers halfway through the season, I am lower.
I had them as my second favorite out West coming into the year, definitely for below Denver. But I really believe in the combination of Ad and Lebron, and I thought they could reach a really high defensive ceiling.
And I thought that they.
Had improved the supporting cast and had introduced some more shooting, and things just haven't quite materialized as I hoped. The shooting hasn't been quite as good as I hoped. They're a twentieth percentile spot up team. They're not an awful shooting team, but I thought that they could be a little bit better. And I think I overestimated the value of some of the additions, Like I've always been a huge Christian Wood guy, and maybe I was unreasonably optimistic
about what he could do. We still haven't really seen Gay Vincent, so it's tough to evaluate that, but I
thought he would be a valuable guard depth piece. And I think that I overestimated the team defense here, and like we're talking about with Milwaukee, underestimated how much having issues at the point of attack would inhibit this team there because I've had so much faith in the back line defenders in both situations, but point of attack defense has been an issue for the Lakers that's caused them to go to these weird starting lips we've seen where
they're trying to emphasize getting their athletes out there, the Cam Reddishes and the Van Dohs, and then utigate some of the offensive skill, and they just haven't really found the role players who can do both of the things that they need. Bring offensive skill and bring point of attack defense, and as we've talked about, I think that that's something that they need to find at the deadline.
I also thought this team would rebound better. I thought they'd end possessions a little bit better, and they've actually been a good defensive rebounding team. It's more of been offensively, but just Torian being like the worst rebounding three in the NBA is not ideal. And then I've had more issues with Darvin Ham this year than previously. The rotational stuff,
to me, has just been deeply concerning. And I think that the effort level every single night, Yeah, it's attributable to this being a team that's led by Lebron who's thirty nine years old, but I think that a coach still bears some responsibility in getting his dudes up to play every game. And nobody's been worse in terms of
effort night tonight than the Lakers. So there are these little things, but nothing to me that is like, Oh, this team can't reach the ceiling that I anticipated if they make the right move at the deadline here, because eighty has been really good this year. But most importantly, Lebron has been much better than he was in the playoffs last year. He has still been one of the most dominant athletes in the league. His jump shot has returned like that to me is so significant and so encouraging.
And I still do think this team defense will be better in the playoffs than now because they do have combinations they can go with. In terms of guys at the point of attack, they have the best defender on the planet.
And then we'll see.
We'll see if they bring in de Jonte Murray, which I know is strongly rumored. I don't think it necessarily has to be a guy who brings that sort of star label. And if Dejontay does come to LA I think that he's going to have to undergo a bit of an attitude change, because I haven't really liked how he's approached things in Atlanta as of late, and he's going to have to completely find his defensive identity again because he has the tools he was awesome in San Antonio.
He has just lost it on that side of the ball in Atlanta. He's going to fit as I think Lakers fans hope, He's got to be the two way guy that he has the tools to be. So I'm not out on the Lakers, but again, until we actually see that they hit on that move and they address the issues that they have, Teams like the Clippers, teams like the Timberwolves are just playing much much better basketball right now.
Yeah, I really agree with a lot of what you said, Carson, and I'm obviously completely lower on the Lakers than I.
Was at the start of the season.
I'm not only thought that they were going to figure it out as the season goes along, and they were my title favorite. I mean, I just thought that they were going to win a lot of games. I thought this team was going to gel together a lot more. The one encouraging thing is Lebron and Anthony Davis. Right, there was a huge variable, a huge concern coming into this season.
But I mean, shout out a lot. It's more a said, guys, Isn't it ironic?
I think we find ourselves right back in the exact same spot we were last year, the same old Lakers.
Man.
I don't know what it is with these big brands.
Man. You got the Dallas Cowboys choking in the playof again, you got the Los Angeles Lakers searching for an entire new roster. Guys, I mean literally top to bottom, all of these guys that I thought were gonna be home runs, that I thought were perfect fits. I shop everybody again. I mean d Low Tari and Prince Cam Reddish, Hachi Mura. I'm talking full on fire sale. I am shopping everyone. I am searching for whatever we can do. And sadly, guys, I don't think it's enough time. We talked about that
precedent last year. It was going to be really hard for a team to basically completely overhaul their roster at the deadline and then figure it out. I find myself in the exact same situation this year. Even if they make all the moves, if they make the right acquisitions and I think it will fit together, I don't really think it's enough time for them to figure everything out.
So again, like Carson said, I wouldn't completely count out this team.
I would never completely count out a team with Anthony Davis and Lebron James, but I'm not betting on it. End I am much much lower on the Lakers than I was at the start of the season.
There's a lot of positive Carson mentioned Lebron looks better than he did last year.
He's having a little bit of a classic.
Lebron January, which is I mean, I had heard rumblings behind the scene that he was like completely done with Darvin Ham and so I do think there was a little bit of passive aggressive Lebron going on. We even had that Brian Windhorse report. I said it to our mutual friend Logan, the one from Brian Windhorse where he was like, Lebron might not play for the Lakers next year, And I was like, this is classic Lebron, right, Like, this is hell, this is this is exactly what I
expect to see from him right around this time. Here, this is his this is his June of this is leg GM's June right here, this is where it all goes down, right, But like I think it so Anthony Davis's shot making is it where it was in the twenty twenty bubble. But I think this is the best Anthony Davis has ever played. I think the I think the playmaking and just the overall offensive folkrum stuff is
at such a higher level than it's ever been. Whereas Anthony Davis, if you remember in that twenty twenty season, he'd have some really bad halves where like if his jumper was falling, he wouldn't look particularly good. I think the all around element of Anthony Davis right now is the best it's ever been. Austin Reeves is making strides
as a shot creator, there's been. It's funny Lakers fans like they oscillate back and forth between Delo and Austin based on who's having a good game in a bad game. It's like Dlos had a couple of good games that are on everyone's like, don't trade Dlo. Trade Austin. He's the best player. It's like, next thing, you know, d Lo will be bad for two weeks and everybody like, oh, yeah, that's right, Austin's better. That's how it goes. But like
as Austin, in my opinion, is like making strides. He's one of only eleven players in the league this year to run at least five hundred pick and rolls that have amounted to at least one point per possession, he's at one point zero eight points per isolation possession. Then he can have games like he did against the Mavericks where he's primarily off the ball and he's just this awesome connector who can you know, attack closeouts and make
that extra pass. I think I think there's so much positive there, but I'm still lower on the Lakers just because of the bad vibes. Like Carson you mentioned, they've been. You said, arguably, I think they're the worst effort and energy team in the league right now. They like even this recent stretch, it's like they beat the Clippers, they beat the Thunder, they beat the MAVs, they beat the Toronto Raptors. There is an absolute egg in there against the Phoenix Suns where they just came out at home
and didn't play hard, like from the opening tip. They just got slacked, you know what I mean. So like NBA history tells us that kind of team doesn't win
the title. Now here's the thing, a lot of time left they I think the big indicator for me is going to be can they go on like a I said this on my show the other day, Like can they have a run like they did after the trade deadline last year where they go eighteen and eight or seventeen and nine or nineteen and seven, where it's like a clear indicator of we are now going to establish the habits that we did not establish to start the season.
And last thing on the Lakers front, it's really to me like when you start to start like thinking about the matchups because Lebron really is the major culprit in the Laker defense since the nd season Tournament is Lebron. I was literally watching the MAVs game the other night and Eric Lively gets three baskets right under the basket like two dunks in a layup in the first three in the first four or five possessions for the MAVs.
All three of them were plays where Lebron as the lowman, could have blown them up, and he was like, nah, I'll just get the next of them. He just went down the floor. So like here's the thing, like let just do let's just do this exercise. So the Minnesota Timberroles have been one of the worst half court offenses in the league this year, and I'm really concerned about their ability to score in a half court against a
really good defense. When we get into the playoffs. If a playoff series started tomorrow and the Lakers were healthy, and you knew you were getting a fully engaged Lebron James and Anthony Davis, even if they didn't make a trade. Like, I know the record says Minnesota is playing way better basketball, but like, I'm tempted to take the Lakers in that series even before trade. I'll just ask you guys, real quick, Carson,
would you take the Lakers of the Wolves? Series starts tomorrow, the Lakers are healthy, You're getting engaged Lebron.
I think I would take the Ta Wolves.
And the one real quick point that I will make is the tee Wolves have not been a good overall offense, but they actually have been seventy third percentile in half court efficiency, and I do kind of like them a bit more in that grind it down, super physical environment. They have a big time shot maker from the perimeter. They have a mismatch attacker and Kat, they have a veteran point guard and Conley. That with the elite defensive ceiling, the fact that they match up in terms of size.
I think I would go Minnesota. I also would Logan.
I also would go Minnesota, and I have a different level of faith in this Minnesota half court offense than I did at the beginning of the year. I love Mike Conley. I adore Mike Congley. He is like the perfect point guard man. He's awesome. I just I trust his veteran leadership in presence. I trust Anthony Edwards being consistently great in a playoff run, and I trust everybody around him. I have loved the ball movement in Minnesota. I'm watching Rudy Gobayer hit passes out of the short role.
I'm watching Nasreed dot guys up. I'm watching Karl Anthony Towns make good pass is. Like, I really believe in the offensive chemistry in Minnesota. And it's not to completely disregard your point, Jason, I think that is the biggest concern. This team's gonna be rock solid defensively against who they go up against. It is going to be about generating points in the half court. But considering the Lakers waning
effort night to night, considering the Lakers role players struggles. Yeah, I just have a different level of faith in Minnesota, and I believe in this offense. I think that I just think they work. I just think they jail way better together, and I believe in them. I genuinely buy into Minnesota as a real contender of.
Corson where did you get that half court offense stat? Because I've been looking at Cleaning the Glass. I have them below one hundred points per one hundred possessions, and they've been consistently a bottom half half court offense all season, So I'm just wondering where you've got that number.
Synergy has them at one point oh one six points for possession in the half court seventy three.
Okay, So it's uh so, maybe that's because Synergy doesn't filter out garbage time. That's probably the difference clean cleaning the glass filter thout garbage tep either way. So you guys disagree with me on Minnesota. I believe that if the Lakers played Minnesota tomorrow, that's an older, more, uh more kind of experienced playoff team. Anthony Davis eats Rudy Gobert's lunch every time they play like That's that's a very important element that I don't think it's brought up
enough in this particular conversation. And I would personally pick the Lakers, but let's let's you guys, take Minnesota. Let's go to the next one. Would you take Oklahoma City or the Lakers if they started a series tomorrow.
I would take the Lakers.
And I do want to be clear, it's still close for me on Minnesota because I really believe in Austin Reeves and Ad and Lebron. Picking against them terrifies me unless I believe the team has like overwhelming advantages. When it comes to okay See, I think they are awesome. I just think there's a different level of physical imposition that LA can unleash upon them that Minnesota is much better equipped to handle because they're huge in the front court,
They've got veteran dues. Okay See is young, they're slight, and so even if they have more perimeter skill and they have some awesome dudes, I just think that that physicality factor and having two of the three best players on the floor by a decent margin, I would still go with the Lakers there.
Yeah, I would definitely take LA in that matchup, just because of the physical and athletic advantages that I think they could.
I think they could body okay See on the interior.
Although that being said, man, there's a different level of faith with me in thinking that, Okay, see's gonna play hard.
I really can't get on the playoff series.
I think the Lakers would play hard too. I mean, maybe not every night like last road games. Yeah, the Lakers road games in the Memphis road. Yeah, in the Memphis series.
I mean it was like two or three games where I'm like, damn, man, like, did you guys even show up?
But they put when they're up, that's the thing. Like they put when it's like it's like, oh, we got a three to one lead, I don't want to win game five.
Win game six, you know what I mean? Dude, Lebron has mastered the art of coasting.
Like he is meticulous and very selective about when he punts, and it very rarely actually costs them in the playoffs because he's so deliberate about that.
Okay, so rapid fire. Would you take the Lakers of the Suns if a series started tomorrow?
Lakers?
La?
Would you take the Lakers or the Kings of a series started tomorrow?
Oh man, it's.
Okay.
Would you take the Lakers or the Pelicans if a series started tomorrow?
Lakers?
Okay? So you see the point I'm trying to make here. So all of that, by the way, all these questions were in situations where the Lakers don't make a trade, okay, and they have a trade to make because they have some roster imbalances. So my point is is, like, I'm
lower on the Lakers because of basketball character stuff. But the reality is is this team is going to march out in all likelihood Lebron James, Anthony Davis, Austin Reeves and trade return from the deadline, likely involving a first round pick, and they've got players that they include for and you know this team when they make the those moves, they come back from the deadline, they're gonna lock in and they're gonna try to establish some stuff. That doesn't
mean they're gonna beat Denver or Boston. But I do think there's been a lot of like like people overlooking classic Lebron January team trends, and I think I do think even though I'm lower on the Lakers than I was before the season in terms of I would have much rather had them just attack the regular season, I still think people writing them off are are being silly because and then again, it's last thing I'll say about it. Let's just look at the Timberwolves. Like both of you
guys picked the Timberwolves by some small margin. They haven't gotten out of the first round yet, Guys like this is not a team that has been through wars. They just haven't. So like that, And that's not to say you write them off. I'm just saying, like that's a huge advantage in my opinion, Like just NBA history tells us.
It's like, that's what allows a Warriors team that's on the way out, like a Warriors team that was about to crack to beat the Sacramento King even though they were on the road and didn't have home court advantage, Like, that's just what happens. Is it's the older it's the experience, it's the best player in the series. The Lakers would have the best player in the series. The Lakers would be older and more experienced. They would pack the paint, they would dare teams to there guys to shoot. I
do think that that would be an interesting series. All right, So now that we're outside of the top five, I want to pick up the pace a little bit. Well, we're gonna move on to number six. The Philadelphia seventy six ers logan. Are you higher or lower on the Philadelphia seventy six ers as a contender than you were before the season.
I am much higher on them. One thing that this has to do with is the James Harden trade. I was anticipating being lower on Philadelphia. I thought they needed James Harden. I've now changed my stance on that. I think that Philadelphia in some ways is better without Harden. I think it has allowed a faster, more up tempo team that just plays better in transition. I think it has allowed Tyrese Maxi to grow as a playmaker and as a lead ball handler, and.
Everything just feels a lot more opened up.
Like I love James Harden, and I love what he's doing in LA, but some possessions where you know, he's taking a couple extra dribbles or he's not moving the ball within the flow of the offense, I don't think they have those issues as much. There's not as much ball stopping. And then defensively, I really like Philadelphia one Embiid on the interior has been one of the best rim protectors in basketball. But I really like the personnel that they can throw at teams. You know, Max, He's
not a max. He's not a great defender, but he tries right, he gives effort. I like the Anthony Melton, I like Patrick Beverlee's point of attack guys. They've got some size and athleticism on the wings. I legitimately buy Philly as a contender now. Obviously the biggest issue is Embiid and if he's going to have these same woes that have plagued him in the playoffs. But I've seen legitimately growth from Embiid as a playmaker. I think he's
playing more selfless team basketball. He's looking for other shots, and that's a big factor to me. Is I just don't think Embiid is going to disappear as the way we've seen him in years previous. It could be easier said than done. It could happen again. I'm not anticipating it this year. And because of that, legitimately, by the seventy six ers as contenders, I'm much higher on Philadelphia.
I'm much higher on them too.
I felt pretty strongly this is a team that would win fifty games in the regular season, just because Embiide is that sort of regular season force. And I have always been a Tyreeks Maxi guy, and I thought that he could fill those shoes as an offensive number two and play really well. But I was not high on their postseason outlook, and I still don't like them in a series against Boston or Milwaukee. But I definitely like them more than I did coming.
Into the year.
Em Beiid is clearly better. He is the best as a shot maker that we've seen him. Last year was really good, I would argue this year has been even more consistently brilliant. I saw a tweet today from NBA University that he leads the league in shots made from fifteen to nineteen feet and leads the league in field goal percentage from that range. He has just been devastating. And as a playmaker hasn't just been better dissecting doubles
and whatnot. He's been more involved across the board as a ball handler, has been more proactive just in his efforts to find and set up teammates. And there's two things that have consistently failed him in the playoffs, but actually there's four. There's his jump shot failing him. There's his playmaking failing him where teams double him and he turns the ball over more than he assists his teammates, there's his health failing him, and there's his reliance on
getting the line. So in the first two categories, he looks better now than ever before. The playoffs is a different arena, but I have more faith than him because of that. MAXI is much better than last year and is making the most of this opportunity. And then I think Nick Nurse is a real coaching upgrade. And I think that they nailed a couple of additions on the wings with Ubre and with Batoum, who is still such
a winning basketball player. And I undersold the value that he had for them when they got him in the hard and trade. I think that that has been a little bit of a hidden gem. So they're playing awesome. I definitely like them more.
So I'm higher on the sixers. The big thing that stood out to me was Tyre Smaxy being kind of somewhat of a question mark coming into the season. Would he be able to step into this much larger role. He's just straight up kicked ass like it's been it's been. I think if you were to put together a spectrum of all the different ways that the Max he as the number one perimeter option could have gone. It could not have gone better than it's gone to this point
in the season. He's one of the best shooters in the league while also being one of the fastest players in the league, which is just a deadly combination. He's starting to figure out too, just like all the same timing stuff in terms of getting Embiid into his spots that James Harden had. Embiad's just insanely good the jump shot.
It's weird because like he's making a lot more of his like face up jab step jump shots, but he's missing a lot more of his off the dribble jump shots that he missed that he made last year, right, So like it's weird because like the actual jump shot numbers are about where they were last year. It just looks different and it will be curious to see if you can make them when they get to the postseason.
I was think Darryl Morridge has nailed the James Harden trade, got a really useful player back, and Nicholas Batoum Marcus Morris has been able to play and make some impact and small doses, but most importantly, they got draft compensation back, So I think they're in a position where they can
make an additional move. This is one of my sneaky teams that I'd love to see get a Dejontay Murray because when I imagine a lineup where the perimeter speed of a Tobias Harris Nick Batoum type of three four is not quite as impactful, I love the idea of getting a Dejontay Murray to kind of be basically a better version of what d'An Anthony Melton is for them.
The other thing with Dejontay Murray is he brings yet another dribble drive guy that can keep the defense in rotation for a team that when Dejontey would have the ball would be surrounded by Embiid who's been a deadly catch and shoot three point shooter this year, Maxi, who's a deadly catch and shoot three point shooter. Nick Patum was a deadly catch and shoot three point shooter. Like That's where I really like that kind of fit. That's the type of guy that I'd be keeping an eye
on for Philly. I have them down at six because I just think in a playoff series, Tyrese Maxie is your number one perimeter option. In his first ever playoff run in that type of role could be in for some growing pains, just like you know, I had a mail back question in my show that I did today where people were, like, somebody asked about Tyrese Haliburton. It's like, I think Tyris Alburton is a transcendently great player. I don't think he's gonna go into the postseason and just kick everybody's.
Ass right away. Like it takes time.
You gotta like that environment is very much is like a growing Pains type of environment. But like if they hit the deadline, the Sixers are like one of those teams where if they make the right type of trade, I'd put him up with Boston and with it with Denver. That's how good I think Joel Embiid can be when
he gets to the postseason. It's just can't he get their healthy and can he make his jump shot when he gets there and beat strikes me as one of those guys too that like when he breaks through, he's gonna shatter through and like suddenly it's gonna be like he just it's gonna be like like someone in the YouTube comments said, like Dirk, like a Dirk esque playoff run.
That's kind of the way I look at it, where it's like he just has this reputation of being a playoff underperformer, and then when it goes right, he's just too good to not break through. Eventually, it's just gonna be a question of when, Yeah, all right, number seven, we're got to start with you, Carson the Minnesota Timberwolves. So are you higher or lower than you were in the Minnesota Timberwolves before the start of the season.
I am much higher, And I came into this season with some optimism, just thinking, all right fully healthy, can they figure out the offensive fit a little bit more with the two bigs? Can they defend at a very high level? But then early in the year, I was like, I still think it's too clunky. I just don't think offensively they can reach the ceiling that they need to. But as the ear has gone on, I think the
cat has gotten more comfortable. I think that he's also just improved as a shot maker, and I think we have seen that this is a truly dominant defense. In the regular season, it has been by far the best defense in the league. Gobert has returned to his peak level defensively, and he's doing that with by far the best defensive supporting castid he's ever had. Awesome dudes at
the point of attack. Daniels is elite. Ant is really good when he wants to be, and Kat is doing so much more than we've ever seen him do defensively. He has committed so much more to that into the floor as a secondary rim protector. We know the value he can have guarding big bodies and post up scenarios, allowing Gobar to be a roamer in those playoff settings, and I think that that has been valuable. I didn't expect them to be this great defensively, even if I
thought that would be the strength of this team. And then I think Ant has taken a couple mini leaps which I expected into But I think his playmaking is a bit better. I think we've seen him lean on that intermediate shot making a bit more, which has always been the weakness in his game.
He's always been.
Insane ninety ninth percentile athlete getting to the rim, and he's been hot and cold as a pull up shooter from deep, but has consistently improved there and has had really hot stretches. The thing has just been a lack of touch in terms of floaters and not really having any sort of mid range game, and his efficiency has.
Gone down in those areas.
He got off to the ear a really good start, and he was really good for Team USA in the offseason, so I thought maybe he'd take a bit more of a leap there. But he's still more comfortable, I would say, at least with this super versatile all around attack. And I really do like the supporting cast. I really like Conley, I really like McDaniels, I really like Kyle Anderson and Ozried off the bench.
They're big, they're physical.
They're not experienced on the level of Ad and Lebron, but most of their dudes have been in those playoff environments before and I do think that that matters. So this was not a team but that I first saw having a Western Conference Finals kind of ceiling, and now I absolutely absolutely think that they do.
Yeah, I totally concur Heading into the season, I said the Rudy Gobert trade was the worst in NBA history, and.
I was completely wrong on that.
I thought that this is going to be a complete disaster with the draft capital that they gave up, and I thought it wasn't ever going to work, and I was wrong. A lot of it has to do with the time that this team is put into is I agree. I think this is the best defense in basketball. I think it is going to hold up during the playoff run. And then offensively, I buy in. Like I mentioned, it's Gobeer hitting guys out of the short role. Now it's Aunt not being afraid to use his guys, like taking
a pump fake at the top of the key. He feeds another guy and then cuts to the basket and they feed it right back to him. Like the team just knows how to play with each other. I love the ball movement during a Minnesota game like it's a It's an offense that I believe in in the playoffs. I just think they work together, and they've played together long enough that it's they have real chemistry that I
buy into. I'm much much higher on the Timberwolves, and I wholeheartedly buy into them as a Western Conference finals and potentially finals contender. Like Carson, I know you've said this on our show before too. It would take a lot in a hypothetical series against Denver, but I think they match up against Denver better than anybody else out West.
So I want to be clear, I am much higher on the Timberwolves than I was to start the season. I've been on the Timberwolves for a while, pretty much since the end of last season. I've just loved the idea of aunt Jaden and Rudy as just unbelievable combination of like two just straight jackets on the perimeter and then a dude that, oh, you happen to beat them off the dribble. Well, here's one of the best rim protectors in NBA history waiting for you. On the backside.
Andy Edwards is taking a leap his last eighteen games, He's like twenty nine points per game on like forty nine percent from the field and thirty nine percent from three. That's over a stretch where they played almost exclusively good teams. The defense is insane and is legitimate. Like, we watched their defense against all good opponents over the last month and a half or so, and they've been excellent in
all of those games. When I say that, like I have a certain pessimism around the Minnesota Timberwolves in the postseason, it really is this simple. Their three main offensive weapons are Carltowns, Mike Conley and Anthony Edwards. Carl Towns is a historically inconsistent playoff performer, like great, one game, awful the next. Mike Conley is a old skill guard. As the point of attack physicality peak picks up. Slower skill
guards tend to struggle a little bit. And Anthony Edwards is young and like once again, like we've talked about so many times on this even just with the three of us, it's just it's growing paints. How often do you see a dude in his early twenties like kick everybody's asking go all the way, like maybe he's Kevin Durant, But that's Kevin Durant. He's one of the ten greatest basketball players to ever play the game, at least in
terms of the perimeter in modern NBA history. Right, So the point being, like I just have question marks about like the long term, like winning four playoff series type of environment. Because here's the thing, like Ant has shot really well with this pull up jump shot as of late, and he shot really well in the postseason into one series samples Ant's biggest One of the things that happens in the postseason is everything becomes geared around your star's weakness.
It's no different than Joel Embiid how every single postseason he gets more turnovers than assists as teams just throw the kitchen sink at him and test his passing ability. That's that's what I expect teams to do to Ant in the postseason. There's this kind of concept with Ant where it's like, oh, you play off of him and you pray he misses. I could see teams going like, no, we're pressing up on you and we're packing the paint,
and we're going to test you as a playmaker. Let's see if Let's see if you're disciplined enough for a seven game series to consistently make the right read. And oh, by the way, we're going to close out short on Jada McDaniels because he's got a.
Little bit of a slower release.
And you know, Mike Conley, we're going to bully his legs until he's tired and old. And you know, Carl Towns, you know, can be inconsistent offensively in the postseason. So like, that's where I think things could get a little ugly for them, is just they have their primary three offensive players are three guys that are all three of them are guys that have some sort of playoff question mark surrounding them in some way, shape or form. So that's why I have him as low as I have them.
But the defense is real and they are going to bully some teams physically. It just more comes down to that half court, slow down environment and whether or not Anthony Edwards can go toe to toe with the very best players in the league and beat the in a playoff series, and NBA history tells us the dude in his early twenties typically does not. But I love the
Timberwolves long term. I would give them like they feel like one of those teams that, like two years from now, is just going to be a perennial top tier contender. So like I feel about Minnesota the way I feel about Oklahoma City, I viewed them as like an upcoming
staple in the league for half a decade. I'm just saying in this singular season, they strike me as one of those teams that's overachieving a bit in the regular season and that will run into some roadblocks when they get to the postseason, which is super common for a team that's anchored by a young superstar and that has a certain amount of like athletic verve that they can rely on for the eighty two. Moving on to number eight,
the Phoenix Suns logan, you're up first. Are you higher or lower on the Phoenix Suns than you were to start the season.
I'm a little lower on the Sungs just because I did have pretty high expectations for them coming into this year. I thought that they would dominate the regular season. Honestly, Jason, I thought you summed it up really well with the Clippers talk like that's that was what I expected out of Phoenix, for them to just dominate skill wise. No, obviously takes a while for everybody get healthy, Brad be Okad.
What we've seen with the Big three I think is encouraging, like they are gonna be able to do that in a hypothetical series that is terrifying to get matched up against where they could just drop one twenty to one thirty on your head and steal a couple of games. It obviously comes down to the role players, right, And I'm not really moved enough yet to really say that I'm more confident in Phoenix. I was confident coming into
this year with the role players. I though that they did the best job that they could in filling out the roster, and they're still just concerns like who is going to take They don't feel that far away to me, I guess, is what I'm saying. But all of their role players are so one dimensional. If it's Grace and Allen, if it's Josha Koge, whoever you point to. They are really good on one side of the ball, but their lackluster.
They just need more two way guys.
I'm not out on the Suns, but I had really really high expectations for them in the regular season that haven't been met, and so now I'm just left with injury and depth concerns, which is kind of what I were my red flags at the start of the year. So I'm not out on Phoenix by any means. They are much too talented to count out, but I just haven't seen enough of it for me to be really deeply moved by Phoenix.
I'm a little bit lower on Phoenix, even though at full strength, I would say they've looked pretty similar to what I expected, because other teams have shown me more because I have been really impressed by Minnesota and ok seeing certainly the Clippers, I do think that their offense is really good. And when the big three has been out there together, it's a small sample size, only one hundred and seventy five minutes, but they have an offensive rating of one hundred and twenty four.
That's pretty damn good.
And you just don't see teams who have three shot makers of this level, three ball handlers who are this devastating. And when you pair that with the spot up shooting that we've seen from Grayson Allen who has barely missed all year, and Eric Gordon like that's a scary offensive combination. The problem for me is the same thing that has been obvious since they put together this core. They are
a low volume three point shooting team. They are very accurate there, but they're twenty third and threes made, which means they're not as inclined to go on those sprees like you might see from Boston. And at the same time, they're twenty eighth in field goals made inside of five feet.
So when you are lacking in both high end rim pressure and you are lacking in consistent, dynamic volume three point shooting, you can have three of the most skilled mid range shot makers in the league, but at the end of the day, you're trading tough twos when other teams are getting easier twos or they're getting good looks from three. So for a team that is so offensively slanted,
that just scares me. That scares me when you're comparing it to the formula Denver has where it's elite shooting and elite paint force, even the formula that the Clippers have because they have more elite three point shooting. Because defensively, this team can only be so good, like they've rebounded well this year, they just have fundamental limitations there. They're sixteenth in defensive rating. And when you have core lineups that involve Beal and Allen and Nurk out there, I
just think you can only climb so high. I think we did see an interesting look with Katie at the five. I think that'll be fun for specific matchups. It kind of gave fits to the Kings. I thought that was a bit embarrassing for Sabonis, like they looked quicker. Defensively, they doubled, they rotated well, and offensively it was awesome.
It was super spread out.
They had skill everywhere against some of like the really big teams who will punish them for going small like that.
I don't know.
How viable it is for extended stretches. I think it can be a weapon. I don't think it's a fix to some of the limitations they have. So this team looks a lot like I expected, but I'm a little bit lower on them.
Yeah, I'm lower as well, just because again I thought they'd look like I put in my notes. I thought that looked like the twenty twenty two nets, Like that's just what I expect that I expect them just to rack up the wins. I do want to give him some slack in the sense that the Bradley Beald, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant combo hasn't had that much time to work together.
The KD at the five stuff is interesting because I agree with you, Carson, I think it's very matchup specific and I think it's a short doses thing because it depended on two things. One, Kevin Durant playing some of the best defense that you've seen from him in the last five years, Like just he was so incredible defensively down the stretch of that game. And then two, there were multiple examples where Sabonis had smaller defenders on him
and just didn't even look at the basket. But that's kind of like one of the advantages of that type of lineup is it's a curve ball, it's an off speed pitch. It's one it's one you throw to disrupt the rhythm of the game and then you bail out of it quickly, or if there is a matchup where you have some advantage, you could stick with it. But like I use the death lineup as an example, not because I think it's as good as the death lineup.
That's the greatest lineup that's ever touched a basketball court, especially when you had Kevin Durant into that mix. But it was never used to start games. It was ever used as like there. I mean they used it to I think they occasionally started Andrey Guadala in the playoffs before KD got there, But like for the most part, it was a counter that Golden State used in short doses to screw up a basketball game and then to close basketball games. So that's kind of the way I
see it. But again, like you said it perfectly, Carson, NBA history tells us teams that rely on pull up jump shooting and don't get easy shots around the basket that that also aren't great on defense typically don't win, and so that doesn't mean the Suns can't win. But through forty games or forty one games through half the season, I certainly am lower on them than I was before
the season because I was expecting more. All Right, we have three more before we get out of here today, Starting with you, Carson, Oklahoma City Thunder, you higher or lower on the Oklahoma City Thunder than you were to start the season.
I am definitely higher, and I would be higher on them than a team like the Suns because I think, yeah, there's obviously the playoff experience factor and the fact that the Suns have Katie Booken Beal, but I think that SGA could easily be the.
Best player in that series.
I think that he is a dominant force, and I think that the supporting Cats and OKSE is excellent. I have been a big Jalen Williams guy. Oh my goodness, though he is so good the tear that he is
on this month, I think they've played ten games. He shot like sixty five percent from the field, sixty percent from deep, while he's giving you twenty one points six as sists a game just a problem athletically a good playmaker, a really good shooter, and I think that chet At another guy mentioned here in terms of dynamic play finisher, really good three point shooter, Stretch Big, another guy who you trust to handle a bit, to playmake and then
defensively is an awesome Rimp protector. The limitation they have is a experience does matter. I think that they're good enough to where they could win a first round series just based off of talent, but making a run of the finals is like another conversation. And be they are so slight in the front court. They're one of the weakest rebounding teams in the league. Chet is an elite rimp protector. He is not a very good rebounding five. And the other dudes around him, like they have athletic wings,
they just don't have big physical wings. And so I think that as well as they may defend all around, that's going to put a bit of a ceiling on them. But I love the Thunder. I thought they would take Elape this year to be like a forty eight win team,
a really tough first round out. Maybe they sneak a first round series, and I think that they are clearly ahead of schedule, and the future is insanely bright because I mentioned the Big three, But like I love Keson Wallace, I think that they can move Josh Giddy, and I think that he has started to recuperate his value a bit because he's been playing better. He didn't look like an NBA player for like a month and a half this year. So the future is crazy bright, but they're
just not quite there. Really is a matter of youth.
Largely, I wholeheartedly agree with Carson. I'm much higher on the thunder coming in. I want to give a massive shout out to chet Holmgren for what he's done on the interior, defending completely transforming the inside of his defense, and just for the effort that okay see gives night to night. I do want to ask you, Jason, if you have any ideas. I know we've talked about this periodically. I mean, is there a move you guys think they should explore at the deadline to accelerate this timeline.
I still lean towards Lori market and would be the one that I'd be looking at, But if Laurie is unavailable, I'd hang tight, Like I don't think Jeremy Grant's that guy.
I don't think DeAndre Hunter is that guy. I don't think.
I don't think there's like a obvious guy that they should Like Carson mentioned this, and this is the truth, the truth, Like we were all higher on the Thunder, and we were already high on the thunder before the season, like I was with Carson. I thought they'd be right in the mix, and instead they're like better than most most of the teams. Like that's that's where it's been again. Like I want to be clear, I put Minnesota in
Oklahoma City together. Minnesota's further along on that path. Like to be clear, Minnesota is further along on that path, but Oklahoma City's on the same path. And what I mean by that is like they're both on like a freight train towards like bona fide year in, year out championship contention led by a bonafide superstar. I think SGA and both are like legitimate superstars.
I just don't.
Necessarily see unless unless they feel like throwing the Godfather off or at market in, I just don't see the point of rushing that process simply because of the fact that they're not gonna win it this year. They're just they're just not being too small. They're they're way too small. They're not gonna win it this year. That's not to say it can't, but it's like their chances are extremely slim on that front. Not only are they're young and
they're small, those are two. That's like, that's a that's a that's a death sentence in the in the NBA playoffs in my opinion. So like, the other thing too, is you could argue even on the market in front, like and I'll just pitch this one back to you guys, like, wouldn't they be better off looking for more of a dirty work for Like, wouldn't they be better off looking for like the next Aaron Gordon?
Probably, but it would be tough for me to pass on marking him to some extent. I just think that he's such an awesome fit offensively, he's so good first of all, and I don't think that you're going to be able to pry him away from Utah right now. That's a team that has won fifteen of their last twenty one. They almost beat the Thunder last night. Will Hardy is an amazing coach.
But that's January basketball. Carson, that's a young thing. Oh the overall stretch. Yes, absolutely, that's a young, fast team in January. That's so classic.
Totally agree.
I want to be clear, I don't think that the Jazz make the playoffs this year. If they did, I think they get boat raced. I think when you look at the top eleven teams in the West, there are ten teams that are more talented than the Utah Jazz pretty clearly.
But Lowry is that dude. He's amazing. I could talk about him to no end. But yeah, what if I offer you six picks?
I mean, if you give me six picks, and if you give me like Cason Wallace, because you got to make the contracts. It's easy to match contracts with Lowry because he makes eighteen million dollars a year.
Is the other thing. Yeah, I would do that if I were the Jazz, So I why not?
And why not give yourself an additional playoff run to build chemistry and battle scars with that group?
I would, I would.
I would absolutely be all in on Lowry if I were the Thunder. But I also agree with you. If there were an equally good player in the archetype of an Aaron Gordon, where it's like, hey, this is a dude who can defend the post at a really high level. Lowry's a really good rebounder, but he's certainly progressed defensively. He's just not going to be a legitimate plus there. But if you can get Lowry, I get Lowry, because I think Lowry is probably a top twenty five player
in the league. He might be the most underrated star in basketball. He is just a hyper efficient, crazy, versatile offensive weapon who doesn't need the ball, who does ad size, who is not slight like, he's strong, he's physical.
I would love that for them.
I think it's a home un go ahead logan. I mean, I just think that's a home run. I would do that in a heartbeat, Like it addresses everything, the size, the spacing, screw defense at that point, let's just go score one hundred and thirty five points a game.
Man. Well, you still think it would make their defense a little bit better because you would at least have another big body and plus rebounder on the interior. But it wouldn't really move the needle there.
Well.
Well, the other thing too, is you don't need speed out of that four spot.
You need verticality.
You need someone that can help in low man situations, like cleaning up messes when Chet leaves his feet, cleaning up the defensive glass.
Like that's where that's.
The case for marketing In is Like Aaron Gordon is one of the most important perimeter defenders for Denver because of all the big wings in the West. Like he's the guy who guards Kawhi, He's the guy who guards Lebron James. Like that, that's why they need Aaron Gordon. But like for Oka, see it's like that's lou Dort. Like lou Dort's taking that assignment so they can kind of like use so they can actually use market In as more of a low man.
All right, we got two more before we get out of here. Number ten.
The Miami Heat logan higher or lower the Miami Heat than you were to start the season.
I am very high on the Miami Heat. I thought that I thought with their losses in this offseason that they were going to fall off a little bit. Now I say fall off. How much can the Miami Heat ever really fall off in a regular season? You got a rock solid culture and identity with Eric Spolster, with Jimmy Butler with bam Adebayo, the team is always going to win forty games, they're always going to be in the playoff picture, and they're always going to be looming.
The two guys that have.
Swung this for me are Jimei Hawk as junior and Nicola Jovich. You know, I was critical of both picks at the time. Yovic because he didn't crack the lineup in his rookie year really, and then Jimi Haks I
just got wrong. I mean, I just thought that triple j was not I thought he was a really good college player, and I thought that it wasn't going to fully translate, like he'd be good at doing a lot of little things, but I didn't think he'd be great anywhere, and I didn't his athleticism didn't pop enough for me. The guy's just a baller, Like there's just guys that you watch that just get it. And he can do
everything at every level. Mid range, on the low block, from the perimeter, he can handle, he can set you screens, he can defend, he crashes the glass. He's an athlete, like he's just a ballplayer. I want him, you know what I mean, I just want him he is a rock solid role player. And then Jovich, Oh my gosh, man, same thing. He can shoot, he moves the ball like he doesn't the ball doesn't stick on his hands.
He can handle, He's an athlete. He can defend.
You know, we can take for granted because I always think in the draft it's like, oh, we're looking to hit this home run. You know, you want the star guard that's going to go fill up and go get buckets. So I want the big man that is going to dominate the interior. Sometimes you just get the good players that are going to fit in the rotation and give you a great twenty five a night. Both of those guys are going to give you a great twenty five to thirty a night. And I think that's a real
difference maker in a playoff series from Miami. And not only that, I think they are legitimate upgrades from the role players that Miami has had that have overachieved in years previous. I think that they're better than those guys. I'm much much higher on the Miami Heat, and it comes down to those two young wings.
I am also higher on the Heat. I don't know if I'm quite as high on Yovich as you are. I do like his feel offensively, I like his skill. Not sure I would really describe him as an athlete, and I'm not sure the level that he's defending at. Like I think that he definitely plays with effort, but I just think there are some limitations there.
Hawks is awesome, though I sold him short too.
I thought that they needed to add like a more legitimately big guy in the front court who they could play alongside band because I felt that that lack of size was so consistently exposed. But he's just an awesome due at all wing and so skilled, so versatile. So I'm higher on them, And also when you look at the overall cast of wings, it's not just those two who are definitely positives. Duncan Robinson what could have been seen as like a fairy tale run in the playoffs,
his resurgence is real. He is legitimately more comfortable as a ball handler, He is legitimately or comfortable as a playmaker.
And I think then you add KYLEB.
Martin, who is still good Josh Richardson, like, it's just a better wing rotation than last year, and they have dealt with injuries to everybody and I mean, everybody, Heroes missed half the year, Jimmy's missed what like fifteen games, Bams missed ten games, and there's still seven games above five hundred. So I think if that's a testament to the fact that this is a more talented overall basketball team.
That being said, would I expect them to have more success than last year, which I guess would mean winning the NBA title. No, And I wouldn't expect them to replicate last year's success because so many outlier things had to go in their way.
In saying, shooting.
A really masterful exploitation of opposing team's weaknesses that I don't think is necessarily replicable at that level. Again, Jimmy being like a top five dude on the planet for a couple rounds. That was a pretty remarkable heat run. But how I felt about them knowing all that, looking at their roster coming into this year, I think that I am higher on them now.
Yep, I'm higher as well.
Did you guys know Hoime hawkas junior is the second best post up player in the league minimum of fifty reps this year.
So awesome, And that's one thing, just really quick, Logan said the thing about him being like such a college bucket. That's like how I felt. I was like, Okay, this dude doesn't have like a crazy first step. He's not a volume of fishing three point shooter. He's cooking dudes with his post game at six seven, and it's just like stuff you don't really see in the league. But he's so good at it that it translates.
That like that, like wing that's strong but maybe not as tall is almost becoming one of the more underrated positions in the league because the league has gone so heavy into the tall, skinny wing and we're just seeing like that lower center of gravity is just so good in the bullyball elements of the game. I love what you said about Duncan Robinson. I think both Duncan Robinson and Tyler Harrow have just gotten way better at weaponizing
their shooting ability to make plays for other people. Jimmy Butler has been out this like this entire stretch and they're still like a serious basketball team. Bam at a Bios shooting forty five percent a pull of jump shots
this year. That's a huge upside in my opinion, and they have a trade to make, and you know, They're another one of those teams like Philly where if they hit a home run at the trade deadline and bring in some sort of legitimate secondary shot creator just because I you know, I'd prefer Tyler harro On Duncan Robinson as like second side guys they can figure that piece out, like another dude who can like actually legitimately take over the offense and give Jimmy a break in a playoff setting,
because I still am not necessarily sure Bam is ready for that. If they get that, that's where they could get into that really serious level. All Right, we have one last team before we get out of here for today, number eleven, and I I will never give up faith in the Golden State Warriors as long as Steph Curry
is on the roster. I also think they're dealing with a whole lot of a classic like kind of like what the Lakers did last year, where it's like this team is just just want so badly to fast forward until after the deadline, Like you can just tell that's what's happening. And I fully expect them to re engage at that point, but it's been ugly to this point. Two games out of the plane Golden State Warriors. Carson, are you lower or higher on them than you were to start the season.
I am significantly lower. I was optimistic about this scene because I thought that they made some awesome moves.
In terms of adding death.
I really loved the draft with Pods and especially TJD is a value pick.
I mean, pots has.
Ended up clearly being the better of the two, the more valuable of the two, but I thought getting TJD at fifty seven was insane. I liked what Chris Paul did for the second unit. I really liked Sarish, and I felt that if the starting lineup could sustain their level, then that just meant that this would be a better team than last year, when they still won a.
Round in the playoffs.
But despite some of the wings that some of the wins that they have taken, like the fact that I've actually loved the depth pieces, there have just been far more losses. I did not expect Andrew Wiggins to fall off a cliff and reach the point where it's like, yeah, we'll start any combination of our young wings over him. Looney and Clay have both had underwhelming seasons, and this team just hasn't defended at the level that we're used to.
Even with Draymond out there, they've been twenty fifth in defensive rating, and I think what has to some extent sealed their fate. And I can't say this with finality because we haven't reached the deadline yet, but missing out on Siakam hurts, especially because you're calling kaminga untouchable, which I get Jonathan kaminga is good. But this is what we've talked about before and what I think has been
a gripe of many Warriors fans. The two timeline thing is a fantasy, and it has been conclusively proven as a fantasy because here you are now, when a couple of years ago, you could have made a move for a Siakam or any number of guys if you were willing to move these picks that just didn't materialize as valuable for this window.
None of those dudes played in final. None of those dudes played. Dudes played in the finals, none.
Of them literally literally, and James Wiseman was, you know, your crown prince.
So it just doesn't happen. You don't sustain multiple.
Windows at the same time on an NBA team, and when you have Steph Curry and he is still a superstar level player. I would be doing everything that I can, even if you think it's a crazy long shot at a title, which to me, it would still be a real long shot. If they did bring a Sakham or a market and who I think it's going to be really tough to move for. I would still do it just to be a legitimately good, competitive basketball team that can make a Western Conference Finals run, because future be
damn dude, it's Steph Curry. He's the best player in your Stanchfist history and you kind of owe that to him. And I think if they've squandered that opportunity again, not for sure, but it certainly looks that way, and that to me seals their fate. They're too small, they're not defending at the same level.
With the lack of a real high end.
Second option alongside Steph kind of seals their fate. And they haven't addressed those issues. So I am comcretely lower on them.
Yeah, well, said Carson. I thought Golden State.
I just have the utmost faith in Golden State as a franchise, and there was an organization like I considered them as a real title contender heading into this season. I don't really feel the same way now. In January, guys, they are seventh in offensive rating, which is encouraging, right, They're dead last in defensive rating. They have a defensive rating of one to twenty seven in the month of January. That's an eight game sample size.
It's like, that's gross.
Wiggins can't figure it out. You got the Draymond Green, Draymond Green drama. You got Stephen Curry frustrated, the deadlines up in the air, and like Carson said, they're straddling timelines, like it seems like they're championship hopes are really sinking fast.
I'm Jason, like you said, man, I.
Don't know if I could ever count out the Warriors with Steph Curry on the roster.
But I'm closer than I've ever been before.
So I'm lower as well. I don't know how you could be higher.
I like, if there's a Warriors fan out there, leave it in the comments, break it down for I want to hear the case. Yeah, but like, yeah, no, there's like the Pods thing is like anytime you hit on a draft pick like that, like that's that's obviously super encouraging. But here's the thing. First of all, the Andrew Wiggins thing, He's just never been able to get back on track. You know, Sam's Fondiari, who's come on the show before, his friend of mine. He said this on Twitter the
other day, and I thought it was really interesting. He goes, why do we keep looking at this as a decline? Zoom out on Wiggins's career for a second. That's the outlier. With exception of twenty twenty two when he was one of the best three and D guys in the league, he's been mostly this and then a version of him on the Wolves where he put up good stats on a bad team, right, and even though stats weren't overly efficient, right,
So like he just put a volume scoring numbers. So like, maybe Wiggins is this and it was this transcendently outlier performance in twenty twenty two that pushed him over the top. That's the first piece of it. Steph is not playing particularly well now. I want to cut him some slack because I do think there's a little bit of like, I don't think he.
Believes that this team can win.
I mean, Steve Kurt straight up came out and said that, like he thinks the team has lost belief, and I think that's an important part of this.
The here's the silver lining.
Technically, because of Draymond removing himself from the team and then being injured at the start of the season, they really haven't played with Stephan Draymond that much this year.
So that's the one piece of it. And then two, even though they missed out on Siakam and obviously I agree with you, Carson, I think that was that was What that was is like the last nail in the coffin was there and somebody hit it with the hammer once and the nail is like very close, yeah, and it's like there's still just a little bit of a gap for you to maybe like kind of get the the wedge end of the hammer in there and then pull the nail out. But they're gonna have to nail
the deadline. And so before we get out of here, I pitched this on my show the other day and I just wanted to kind of hear both of your guys' take on it, and we'll start with you, Carson. Let's say that Golden State calls up Brooklyn and they offer Andrew Wiggins, Moses Moody Jonathan Kaminga, and they ask for Michale Bridges and Dorian Finney Smith. First of all, I want to I expect, let's go around like this. First, do the nets say yes?
I mean, I think that that would be robbery if the Warriors got the Nets to accept that. I don't think like if we just go asset to asset, Jonathan Kaminga to me is very unlikely to ever be as good as Mcalbridge is right now.
Maybe I should.
Okay, maybe very unlikely as strong I would say unlikely. I think the Kaminga has a special combination of athletic traits. You do not see dudes who blend quickness with strength with just elite vertical ability like him. But I think that in a lot of the peripheral skill elements of his game, we're still looking at a dude who's pretty raw. He's been really good this year. He's been a lot better.
But mcaal fits so seamlessly into winning basketball with what we know he looks like when he's engaged defensively, elite there, elite three point shooters, super smart cutter and dfs. He's not too valuable to Brooklyn right now. Really he would be great for the Warriors. But I don't look at any of those assets and think that they're enough to move Brooklyn off of mcal moody. I really like, but he's a like pretty low ceiling three and D wing.
If the Warriors got that, I mean, that would fundamentally change my outlook.
Then I would say, I mean, yeah, that's we'll get.
Just focus on the Nets for now.
I don't think the Nets would take that.
Okay, what about you, Logan Mike.
My bad guys.
I honestly don't think Jason's that far off with this deal. KAMINGA to me is still a very, very valuable asset for the future. Like, I just think about this timeline wise, that would be my pitch to Brooklyn. Your timeline is not right now. You're not winning anything. Part cam Thomas up with a young Wing. I think he's got a lot of value. Like, I still think mcal bridge is the best player in the deal, but you're getting Wiggins too.
My only issue is that the fact that the Brooklyn netsis well, give me.
A second here.
That's the one thing that I have is that the Brooklyn Nets would have Andrew Wiggins and Ben Simmons, and just considering that Ben Simmons hasn't played, Wiggins has struggled, you just have two really big negative assets on big contracts that would be pretty hard.
To move at this point. Uh.
I honestly think value wise though, I don't think Jason's that far off with this deal.
So here's the take for why the Nets should consider it. Mckail Bridges is twenty seven years old, Cam Johnson twenty seven years old, Spencer Dinwoody thirty years old, Dorian Finney Smith thirty years old. This is not the Utah Jazz. This is not a young, fun team with a bunch of upside. These guys are who they are. Mikale Bridges is not a star. He is an outstanding role player, one of the very best role players in the league.
He can score the basketball a little bit. But if you make him your primary creator, you're not gonna win money many basketball games. Yep, that's the reality. Jonathan Kmming, in my opinion, does have star upside. That would be the case, And specifically, I have this belief system like you always should be trying to get your number one guy. You got to be trying to get the best guy one of those guys that's in that list of ten
dudes that you can win a championship with. There's no reason to just be holding on to a bunch of eight twenties role players. Yeah, that everyone else in the league could use way more than you while you're a bad basketball team of significantly below average basketball team. Now, I would be one hundred percent with you if it was like McHale's twenty three, right, and we think this dude by age twenty seven can be one of the top twenty dudes in the league. But that's not what
this is. So that's where I kind of kind of see the case. I'd be looking at it as like, I'm getting Moses Moody, who is a young dude who could become a great role player in this league. And I've got Johnathan Kaminga who could become potentially one of the stars of this league. And then I have Andrew Wiggins, who I could probably turn around and flip again if I wanted to to somebody else or flip at the over the summer. Right now, let's forget about all that
for a second. Let's pretend Brooklyn goes no. We like McHale, Bridge is more more than Johnathan Kaminga, and then Golden State goes, okay, here's a bunch of draft compensation two, and then Brooklyn says, yes, yeah, Now Dorian Finney Smith and McHale Bridges are on the Golden State Warriors between Steph Clay and Raymond. Start with you, Carson, how seriously would you take that team as a contender.
I would take that team probably as seriously as anybody out west other than certainly Denver and maybe the Clippers. But I think that they would be firmly in that tier because I think that they would fundamentally raise their defensive ceiling. They would add shooting, they would add some size. I mean, they would have awesome overall wing defense. And I will say I think the draft compensation would do it because you make good points, and I do think
that Jonathan Kminga is going to be really good. I just think mcal is like your third guy, pretty ideal third guy. But you're right, what does Brooklyn need a third guy for. They're not even close to a first guy. He's twenty seven, so he's twenty seven. He really is who he is at this point, So I think that would be a big win for the Warriors.
I'd have them up there with the Clippers.
And one thing that you mentioned earlier, Jason, is just kind of the vibe and the energy around Golden State. I mean, don't you guys think that light's a little bit of a fire under and too?
Oh hell yeah, oh yeah, yeah. The vibes are broken right now. That would repair them.
Yeah. And what I like about that kind of lineup too, is it very much is not trying to be Denver. It's very much like still trying to be Golden State in a very kind of like in a very unique.
Way, like I did be a little thin.
But what I also like too is it would maintain the bench mob like you still have Trace Jackson Davis and Dario Sarach and Brandon Pitzemski and Chris Paul like you'd and Gary Payton like you. You'd maintain your bench mob, you'd maintain your ball handling when STEP's off the floor.
That to me is the move that to me, I would be Colin Brooklyn and I'd be like, I want Michale Bridges and Dorian Finney Smith because that to me is like I'm not You're also bringing in a couple of guys to well, specifically one guy and Mikhail Bridges that is so damn talented and so firmly in the heart of his prime that it just kind of reinvigorates and buys you time for guys like Poziemski to develop, buys you time to, you know, figure out what you're
gonna do with some of these other veteran guys in the long run. You know what I mean. To me, it's like a very nice, kind of like little soft rebuild. All right, guys, we've been going like almost two hours. I sincerely appreciate you guys taking the time. Thank you all of our listeners for supporting the show. I am gonna go take five days off and do some skiing in Denver. I sincerely appreciate or's not Denver, but in Breckenridge. I sincerely appreciate all of you guys for rocking with us.
When we get back. It's straight grind until the middle of June. I was talking to Ryan Brumley, our lead producer here at Hoops tonight the other day, and I think we're gonna try to get the Nerd Sash guys on every other Friday, if you're up for it. So no pressure, but I'm asking you here on the air, so like you see, you have no choice but.
To say yes. We love nothing more.
Alrighty, I appreciate you guys, have a good weekend. I'll see you on Wednesday.
The Volume