Hoops Tonight - Thunder-Warriors reaction: Klay Thompson struggles with Steph Curry & Draymond out

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I hope all of you guys had an incredible week. Just gonna hit one game from last to night. The Golden State Warriors losing at home undermanded without Steph Curry to the Oklahoma City Thunder. Then we're gonna do a deep dive on the Oklahoma City Thunder and everything I've learned about them from my film session this morning. And then at the end of the show, I've got a bunch of mail bag questions for you. You guys know

the drill before we get started. Subscribe to our brand new YouTube channel would mean a lot to me as we try to get this thing launched if you guys would scroll down and hit that subscribe button. Don't forget about our podcast feed where you get your podcast under Hoops tonight. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT so you guys don't miss our film breakdowns as well as show announcements. Did another film thread from this Thunder Warriors game? You can find that at Underscore Jason LT

on Twitter. And then, last but not least, keep dropping mail bag questions in the YouTube comments so we can keep hitting them at the end of these shows. Actually,

I have one other announcement for you guys. So obviously this is our last show of the week because it's Friday, but my grandmother passed away last week, So my wife and I are gonna be flying to Dallas on Monday morning for the funeral, and I'm gonna be gone a good chunk of that week so I'm not gonna work while I'm over there, so we're gonna take a little bit of a break. So there's gonna be no show Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday or Thursday for Thanksgiving. So that's what six

full days off. But we'll be back next Friday, breaking down basically everything that's happened in the time since we'll probably just do a Power Rankings video that day so we can hit everything. But obviously with me going out of town and then also we've just we've hit this really hard to start the season. I want to give some of my teammates here the volume of break as

well so that they can enjoy the holiday. So just one show in the next week, and then when we come back the following Monday, we'll get back into our usual routine. All right, let's talk about Thunder Warriors. So this is an undermand Golden State Warriors team. Obviously you have Steph Curry out and then you know, we talk a lot about this concept of slotting, this idea that you know, when one guy is filling his corresponsibility as

a superstar, creates these smaller responsibilities for everybody else. But when you remove the superstar, that huge chunk of responsibilities becomes vacated, and then other players have to step in

and fill those responsibilities. Now, have we seen the Warriors win games without Steph before, Yes, But part of it is, you know, like Klay Thompson last year was having, in my opinion, the best half court creation season of his career, right and then you know, Andrew Wiggins before he left the team on the personal absence, was a guy that was giving real offensive punch to this team. And both of those guys just aren't playing very well right now. I think Clay was what won for ten last night.

Andrew Wiggins is still not giving you much scoring Poppy. That funk that he's been in is just kind of persisting. And then Chris Paul in particulars hasn't really been much of a score to start this season. And we got what thirty two points on thirty one shots out of Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, and Chris Paul thirteen assists to

just thirteen assists with eight turnovers. So that when you have a situation like that, everyone gets kind of like put into a position where they're doing more than they usually do, and that can typically lead to failure, and in this particular case, when these guys are already not

playing well, it just kind of exacerbates that problem. Right, So, the Warriors were kind of overmatched to begin with, but at the same time, from a tactical standpoint, the biggest thing that stood out watching the film was just the

huge gap in dribble penetration between the two teams. It didn't matter if it was a made basket or a transition situation or whatever in the world was going on around them on the court, The Thunder were able to pretty much just beat somebody off the dribble, make one kickout pass, maybe another close out attack from there, but

just consistently generate fantastic looks on the perimeter. Not only that, when these guys were making moves, whether it was Shay or Josh Giddy or Jalen Williams, the Warriors were overreacting to it, in large part because they are more dangerous ball handlers. They're guys that can do more damage when they get downhill thest relative to what Clay Wiggins and CP three are doing at this phase in this season. Right like, there was a play after a made basket

where Andrew Wiggins is at the point of attack. And you guys know what I said about Andrew Wiggins after the twenty twenty two season, like, I think he's a top tier perimeter defender when he's really locked in and engaged, and and Shade just kind of hit him with a hard left handed dribble move after a made basket and got so much drible penetration, got south of the free throw line that Sarage came over and he made the kick out past to Josh Gitty who was wide open

on the left wing for three. And it just was easy dribble penetration. And then you look at the other end of the floor and it's a struggle for Clay to get open. He's like, can't even get separated from Kendrich Williams. There's a bench wing from the thunder right, Like Andrew Wiggins is still struggling to really get going offensively,

and it's it's been a problem. And again you go down to the other end of the floor and it's just Jalen Williams getting you know, a Kevon Looney on a switch and just beating him to the basket, just straight line drive for a layup. Or Josh Gitty coming off of a screen. He's got Corey Joseph on a switch and it's just boom boom, like right left crossover, like a double crossover, and just right past Joseph all

the way to the rim for a layup. It just they had no problem penetrating that perimeter defense for Golden State and either getting good shots for themselves or driving and kicking for easy shots. And then on the other end of the floor, it was just a hell of a time for Golden State's best perimeter creators to generate openings. And I think again it's an indicator of what is

a roster or strength for the Thunder. And you know, the best point of attack guys for Golden State is aren't defending very well right now, which is kind of a team wide issue over the past couple of weeks. Right And then on the other end of the floor, it's a result of slotting, is guys are being put into positions where they're going to struggle because they're being asked to do too much, exacerbated by the fact that

those guys were already slumping to begin with. Another thing that the the Thunder we're doing that was working really well was the ghost screens with Isaiah Joe. So they did this three times for wide open threes for Isaiah Joe. Now, ghost screen is a way to attack a switching scheme, right, So you run up like you're about to set a screen, but you don't actually set the screen. You just quick

flare out to the three point line. And what you're trying to do is because it's a guard guard action, it's probably gonna involve two perimeter defenders, and those perimeterive defenders are in all likelihood going to switch. But here's the thing, shake Yil's whether Jay Dubb did it once and then shake Yils Alexander I think did it the

other two times. But like when you have a high level level ball handler there, when two guys are considering switching, they're both gonna error on the side of taking the bigger threat, in this case, the in the primary ball handler, right, and so he just Isaiah Joe's just catching him lingering, so to speak, lingering too long in that switch. They

got Wiggins with it twice. Like it's just way easy for way easier for them to generate open shots in general, not just by beating people off the dribble, but just their ball handlers are more dangerous. So Golden State's overreacting in a way that the thunder are not. Like, you know, there's a play to give you the counter example, It's like there's a play where Keason Wallace is is chasing Klay Thompson off a screen and there's two shooters on

the Weeks side. I think it was Chris Paul and Moses Moody, I remember correctly, and basically, as Clay's coming down off the pin down, you know, Chet Holmgren offers like a token little show, but he's not going out that far because Kassn Wallace is chasing from behind. Kayson is about is able to get all the way back in front of Clay and actually contest before he takes the shot. But even if Looney was rolling, both of

Oklahoma City's defenders were just kind of nicely positioned. And I think it was Aaron Wiggins, and I want to say Jalen Williams was the other guy. And Aaron Wiggins was on the guiding the guarding the guy in the corner, and Jalen Williams is guarding the guy on the wing, and they're both just kind of like they're in the way of Looney's role, but at the same time close

enough that they can recover out to the shooters. They're not throwing the kitchen sink at Clay because they're not worried about him, at least not at this point in the season. And so like it's that is the difference. Because of that, Clay Thompson ends up taking the shot right and Cassan Wallace is able to recover and get back in front and take that away. They're not panic chasing Clay, blitzing, throwing multiple bodies and giving up four

on threes on the back end. And it's just that that's just the difference in that push and pull of the defense. On one side of the floor, it's straight line drives and multiple defenders going to the basketball even in those ghost screen actions. And then on the other end of the floor, it's not any dribble penetration and guys guarding actions one on one, two on two, which is keeping them out of rotation and allowing them to basically force guys into tough shots and to force turnovers

that way too. So again it's like Golden State's undermand doesn't mean anything about them in the bigger picture, except for the question that I continually proposed, which is basically like, can Clay, Andrew and Chris generate enough offense for this team to get over the top, and we'll see, And I think if they get to February and all three of these guys are still struggling, don't be surprised if they get aggressive to try to bring offense in at

the deadline. But from I thought, it was also just a really a good showcase for all of the perimeter talent that Oklahoma City has on the roster. All right, let's do are deep dive into the Oklahoma City Thunder. So they are eight and four right now. That's the sixth best record in the league, eighth in offensive rating seventh and defensive rating fifth and net rating, So always a good sign for a really really good team when

you're top ten in both offense and defense. On the offensive end of the floor, it's just a textbook case of you know, my kind of favorite version of a modern basketball team, which is basically like all five guys can dribble, shoot and pass, which makes it so that

again like it doesn't really matter. We have a mailback question coming at the end of the show talking about why teams run pick and roll at the beginning of possessions so frequently, And the short answer, and we'll go into more detail when we get later, is like, that's how you get the defense in rotation. Like everything about the beginning of the possession is about getting the defense

into rotation. You're very rarely expecting a team, and even in a playoff series, to be like, let's just let you continue to attack one on one with your best

player against our worst defender, time and time again. Like generally speaking, it's you might score a couple buckets in your with your pick and roll guy, you might score a couple buckets out of the post, but you're really just trying to just get them to throw that third defender into the mix and pick and roll, or get them to throw that second defender in the mix and I in post up situations. From there, it's rotation basketball.

It's everyone's flying around and from there. Aggregate ball handling, aggregate shooting, aggregate playmaking is what makes your offense so difficult to guard. And the Thunder have that in spades. And it's hard to overstate specifically how much Chet Holmgren helps with this because he is both a legitimate, you know, defensive anchor on one end of the floor and a guy who can operate as a traditional center on the defensive end in terms of screening and popping and screening

and rolling. But he's that in addition to being a very good dribble shoot pass guy, meaning like he's not a weak link in that drive in kickgang if a game. If anything, he's a strong link in that driving kick game, and that has gone so far towards just kind of like grease in the wheels, so to speak, in this thunder offense. And above that, like he's super unaggressive. I would argue that Chet could shoot more than he has, and to his credit, it's because he's just trying to

fit in with the team. And honestly, like in the big picture, it's fine like this team because when he defers, it's just going to another great offensive player. So it's not like he's deferring so other guys you know that are lesser players than him can shoot. He's just been such a shoe and fit with that thunder offense. Every single ball handler that initiates offense for this team brings

a different strength to the table. So like Shay for instance, is your shifty shot making guard, right, and he's the third best high volume ISO guy in the league this year. He's getting one point one six points per ISO. Out of the eight players in the league to run at least fifty to this point, he's third best. He's ahead of Jason Tatum, He's ahead of Kevin Durant. He's had a Zion Williamson who's like one of the most devastating ISO players in the league with his ability to just

to beat people off the dribble. Anthony Edwards Palabancaro, He's ahead of all of those guys. Josh Giddy is more of like your big play making forward right, so like he can get size mismatches and get little shots over the top. And then he's a very good passer, although he'sruggling with the shot making a bit this year. And then Ja Dubb Jalen Williams a really good downhill athlete in terms of generating rim pressure, but he's actually a very good passer in a way that a lot of

players of his archetype are not. And he's shooting really well, especially in pull up jump shot situations. For a young player. He's at fifty percent in effective field goal percentage and pull up jump shots this year, hit a huge step back three over Kevon Looney in the fourth quarter the Warriors game to Stem. I think it was Pozemski who just hit a big three at the top of the key on the other end, and he kind of knocked that off with a big step back going the other way.

He's up over a point per possession and his self creation metrics, so that's ISO, pick and roll and post up all including passes, he's over a point per possession. But he brings an entirely different vibe. All three of them do. And then after that, every single role player is a good shooter. Like they have seven players shooting over forty percent from three. Five of their top seven in minutes played are all shooting at least thirty nine

percent or better. And that's what it is. It's it's seven players shooting thirty nine percent or better from three. But five of the seven guys that I just mentioned are in their top seven for minutes played, and they're

all shooting at least thirty nine percent from three. Right, The only two guys in that top seven in their rotation that are like leave open guys meaning like the defense off the ball would probably concede a catch and shoot three to them are Josh Giddy and Shake kills with Alexander, who usually have the ball in their hands, so you're not leaving them open in the sense that they're usually they usually have the ball in their hands, right, And then you know they do a decent job of

staggering them throughout games so that they don't have a ton of overlap anyway. So like it's it's it's a complete, uh, you know, loaded roster from the standpoint of passing, shooting, ball handling, but at the same time with the off ball threats to make it all work, Like no one you can't leave them open from three, they can drive and make you know, they can expand the advantage via drive and kick. It's just an incredibly well rounded offensive roster.

And then this Cason Wallace thing has been an absolute revelation. Like I scouted him for the Summer League this year, and you know, I'm there watching him and it's you know, another defensive guard prospect, right, and and you're watching him and you're like, yeah, is this guy even gonna play like, because the Thunder just have so much talent, but he's just been immensely important to them. He's played in every

single game. He's been an excellent point of attack defender, as was expected in his pre draft process, but he's been a Swiss Army knife for them on the offensive side of the ball. They're basically using him as a big man, which is which is weird because they everyone The big comp that everyone was throwing out with Kason Wallace coming out of college was Drew Holliday, you know, big, strong,

defensive minded guard. But at the same time, you know, he actually reminds me more of Gary Payton in the way that they use him offensively, in the sense that they use him a lot in like ball screens as a guy who will set a screen for Shay and then roll to the you know, take a short and then then they have a good ball handler and good athlete who can finish at the rim making plays in those four on threes. He's a very good cutter. He

works a lot out of the dunker spot. I pinned a bunch of examples of this in that Twitter thread that I made today that you guys can find. He's actually scored twenty six points on cuts and rolls this year, shooting ten for eleven from the field, and the one that he missed was in this game, the drop off pass from j Dub where he went up to dunk and I think he actually did think he was the center for a minute because he tried to like straight vert dunk and got rim stuffed. But like he there

was a play where he caught. He had Klay Thompson Ymy's in the dunker spot and Chet just did a basic pump fake and ripped through Drew Clay in help and he dropped it off to Kassan Wallace at the block like behind the backboard, and he made a reverse layup on the other end off of a drop step. Because that's how good of an athlete that he is. And so but at the same time, like if he needs to be in a spot up role, he's good there as well. He's fifteen for twenty five on catch

and shoot jumpers. It comes out to one point seven to six points per catch and shoe jump shot that he's taken this year. So like he's he's just been a complete revelation, a really good two way player, a clean fit on the offensive end of the floor. Adds to their just like kind of unending string of guys that are quick and versatile perimeter defensive weapons that are also plus offensive players, and it's just yet another reason

to be excited about this team. On the defensive end of the floor, they're seventh in defensive rating right now, third and half court defense according to Cleaning the Glass. That's really impressive. They're the thirteenth best team in defending the paint. They're an excellent transition defense. They're the third best transition defense by defensive rating according to Cleaning the Glass. Third fewest fast break points allowed per one hundred possessions.

They are sixth in opponent three point percentage. Again, we talked about that earlier, the concept of not overreacting to the ball, so staying home and offering good contests and forcing guys to make tough shots over individual defense in on ball reps. Right the biggest issues they have right now is they foul a bit too much. They're twentieth in opponent free throw to per one hundred possessions, and they really really struggle to defensive rebound. They are twenty

ninth in defensive rebounding percentage. And it's not just the small lineups, Like I've dug into that data because obviously they played really small against Golden State and struggled to keep Kevin Looney off the glass, but they actually have rebounded a little bit better when chats off the floor bad in both cases. So it's just a team wide issue. They just do not have enough size to really be a good rebounding team. That's their biggest personnel weakness in

my opinion. Like, if you look at their roster, you're like, do they have shot creation in space? Do they have improtection? Chets going to be better than most most guys in the league that you can get there in terms of improtection is a good option there? Do they have off ball shooting? Yes? Do they have athleticism and quickness? Yes? What is the one thing? They don't have? A big,

strong forward? Remember I always talked about the two archetypes of Fords, the thinner, more perimeter oriented forward and then the bigger, stronger forward. Right, Like, the perimeter oriented forward is like your Jaden McDaniels, right, Like, that's that's your like Herb Jones, right, that's your Andrew Wiggins. There's a bunch of those kinds of guys in the league. They're usually about six to eight. They're usually a little bit thinner, slender,

they're usually quicker. They're usually a little bit better offensively in terms of dribbling and shooting. And then you have your big forwards and this is like Aaron Gordon, DeAndre Hunter, Ruey Hotcha Murrah. Jeremy Grant's kind of one of those guys too, where it's like a little bit closer to that like six nine six ' ten size, but they're usually built really strong. They're usually not as quick on the perimeter, but they're usually really good in terms of

guarding bigger players and switches. And then they usually are more of a power offensive game and their ability to beat mismatches in the post. Right, And there's just not a guy like that on this Thunder roster, like they're Jalen Williams is basically your fore man in this group and the starting lineup, and he's six foot six. Lou dort Is is a is a smaller, like kind of

more hydrant type of wing. He's kind of more in that like like he's like a bigger version of like that Bruce Brown type of archetype, right, and then you know, Josh Gidty is not a guy that you're looking at is a big, strong forward, right. And even the guy's coming off the bench, Aaron Wiggins and Kenrich Williams are are a little too small for that. Huzman Jang is tall like that, but he's thin, and so I don't think he really qualifies either. So they don't really have

a guy on the roster that fits that archetype. And ideally that's what you'd want, especially with Chat being a little bit of a thinner rim protectors. If you had a six ' nine six ' ten, big strong forward next to Chat Holmgren, that would be what would address their biggest weakness in terms of defensive rebounding in my opinion. And so again, like I'm not here saying like the Thunder need to make a trade. I don't think they're in a rush. I don't think they're in enough of

a rush. Like I don't think I don't think the front office is looking at this like we need to win the title this year. So my guess is that the Thunder will just be patient. But just for fun, here's an example of a trade that would actually really like this trade for both teams, but a trade that would address the biggest weakness for the Thunder while at the same time addressing the biggest weakness for the other team.

So the Thunder they have a need for this type of big, strong forward, right, and they have a plethora

of guys that are good perimeter defenders. In my opinion, the Los Angeles Lakers are a team that is completely devoid of perimeter athleticism in the back court, right, and the best perimeter defenders they have right now are Cam Reddish and Jared Vanderbilt, who are both guys that are probably going to get ignored in a playoff series, which hurts them on the defensive end of the floor, right because they when they play those guys, that hurts them

on offense. When they sit those guys, their offense gets better, but their defense goes to hell. It's been a big part of the story at the beginning of the season as Jared Vanderbilt's been out right. But what they have is this guy named Ruy Hachimura, and he's only played five minutes all season alongside Lebron James and Anthony Davis.

Why because Lebron James is also a big, strong forward, and Ruy kind of slots behind him, and they don't feel comfortable playing him at the three alongside Lebron and Ad because usually at the three, you need someone who can navigate screens. You need someone who's a good perimeter defender, a guy that can chase quicker players around on the perimeter. And we saw in the Golden State series in particular, that Ruey when he was alongside Lebron, couldn't really do that,

and so he became less effective in that particular series. Right, So they're in this predicament where they've got an extra big, strong forward and they are leaning more on their Jared Vanderbilt will play a lot Tory Prince, you know, Like those are the guys that are playing the majority of those perimeter minutes alongside Lebron, James and Anthony Davis. And even when they have gone big next to Lebron and Ad, they've wanted to play Christian Wood, right. So Ruy's kind

of expendable there in that way. And so this is one of those deals where it's like lou Dort for Ruy Hatchamura, even though I think both fan bases would hate that trade. And before before any of you guys think like, oh, that's bullshit, like I would never give away Ruey for Dort, or I'd never give away Dort for RUI. I've already tweeted this out, and I promise you everyone feels the same way. Every thunderfan thinks it's not worth it. Dort's too good, ru is too bad.

Every Lakers fan thinks it's not worth it. Ru is too good, Dort's too bad. So like to give you an idea like this is that's kind of what makes it the perfect trade in my opinion, is like both fan bases hate it, but I think it legitimately fixes the biggest problems for both teams, and it comes from a surplus for both teams, Like Dort is a very good perimeter defender and is the guy who takes the primary point of attack assignments for Oka. See, it's an

important job. But at the same time, excuse me, they have a lot of other guys that are capable of doing that job and doing it well, and I don't think that would be an issue for the roster. In the big picture, I'd argue that their defensive rebounding is a bigger problem, like they're legitimately giving up an offensive rebound on more than thirty percent of their stops right now. Think about that, like a third of the time that they actually get a stop, the other team just gets

the rebound and they get to try again. It's a big weakness in this roster. Even if you look at the losses Oklahoma City's had against teams like the Pelicans, you know, with that big front line of Jonnas Valanciunis in Zion Williamson against the Denver Nuggets for instance, with Aaron Gordon and Nicole Jokic. Right even the time they lost to the Warriors, I think they gave up like something crazy like like twelve thirteen offensive rebounds in that

game too. They gave up a ton of offensive rebounds last night.

So like it's been, that's their biggest weakness, right and so in a weird way, like for the Lakers, Lakers fans are like, they love Ruy Hachimura, they want him to stay, but right now they're having trouble finding minutes for him because he's tucked behind Lebron and they desperately need a good perimeter defender that's a plus offensive player that they could put between Austin Reeves and whoever it is that's at the three, to give them a better

fighting chance on the perimeter and against athletic guards. And so like, Dort come in and solves all of the Lakers problems by giving them a plus offensive player who is also a very good perimeter defender and a great athlete. And then on the other end of the floor, at the other end of that that equation, you Slot Ruy Hatcha Mura, and you have you know, Shake gils Just, Alexander, Josh Giddy, Jay Dubb, Ruy Hatchra Mura and Chet. Now

you're big. Now you're a huge lineup. Now you're Chet next to Ruy six ' nine, next to Giddy six eight, next to Jay dub at six six, elite athlete, next to Shake gils Just Alexander sixty six with great length. And now you all of a sudden become a big team.

So again it's just for fun. That trade's not gonna happen in my opinion, because the Lakers do value Ruby Hatchamura a ton, even though he they don't use him as much as they probably should, And because I'm sure the thunder don't want to mess with a perfect concoction. I just thought that was like kind of an example of a trade that would actually benefit both teams a great deal. I think both teams would get better immediately. All right, let's hit the mailbag before we get out

of here for the weekend. I have one, two, three, four by six seven questions for you guys. Okay, is the reason that your favorite type of player is a strong forward because they can get the most efficient shot which results to winning basically essentially, like I think most playoff series, in my opinion, kind of eventually degenerate into

rock fights and matchup hunting. And when you have a big, strong forward star who can consistently get a quality shot close to the rim against smaller defenders, that I think is the best weapon that you can have in a playoff series as long as that guy can play make. And that's why I've always gravitated towards the Jokic's, the Lucas, the Lebron's, like that type of player has always been a type of player that I think is deeply impactful

in the NBA postseason. If you can punished size mismatches while also being an elite playmaker, That to me is like the best version of a playoff player. All right, next question, Hi, Jason. I love watching the Palo Franz duo in Orlando, and I am bullish that they can become the next Brown Tatum. But in order to maximize their potential, I think the Magic need to fit figure out what sort of guards can play alongside them. Offensively. Been having an argument with a pretty passionate Magic mate,

and I'd love you to settle to score. I think guards that can set up the offense and put Franz and Pollow in spots to attack aka the Fred van Vliet player archetype, would allow them to just focus on scoring and secondary playmaking and let the other role players

feed off of that initiator my friends. My friend thinks Franz in particular can develop into a true point forward and Palow enough of a dho high post passer that the guards they should target our more off ball shooter slash cutters aka the zach Lavine player archetype, and let the combined aggregate ball handling you talked about before this before sort out the team offense. Obviously, the dream situation is a guard that can do both, but those guys

don't grow on trees. So a couple different things here, very good question for the record, I tend to think that in this particular case, your two stars are going to inevitably be the offensive engines and the big picture, I absolutely think that Franz can develop into a true point forward, and I absolutely do think that Palo can kind of spell him in the same way that Julius Randall spells Jalen Brunson essentially as this big bully ball forward, and I think he can be a lot better than

Julius Randall. Obviously in the back court, it's always a tough battle because like there's always a given a take right, Like you're probably a little bit frustrated with some of the stuff with with like Jalen Suggs and and Markel Foltz offensively, but those two guys are really good athletes and really good defensive players at the point of attack, And so it gets tricky because if you, you know, if you go, let's say you were like, let's bring

in offensive skill to help organize Franz and Polo, it's like then your point of attack defense takes a hit, and you is Wendell Carter Junior enough of a rim protector to hold things down, probably not right, Like I like that that's always the give and the take, and so honestly, as of right now, I kind of like the physical, bullyball nature of the magic with the backcourt that they have. And I know it sounds crazy because like right now they're just not good enough offensively. That

goes without saying, but like, don't rush this situation. Like there, this is not a team that needs to accomplish everything

this year. It's actually worthwhile to see if Jalen Suggs in a few years can be you know, like a top tier two way defensive minded guard that can also shoot and slash off of the attention that Fronz and Pola generate, right, And same goes from Markelle Fultz, Right, So I think I think in the in the short term, it actually makes sense to just kind of continue to give these guys as much reps as possible, and when you get closer to this being more of a win

now situation, maybe two years from now, you could take a look at at some of the more intricate details of whether or not the offense is clicking at a high and a freight, right, and and then you find out in the big picture, because like, obviously I think Franz can be a star perimeter initiator, but that's still somewhat up in the air, right, and so you need more data, and the only way to get more data

is with more time. So like again, like I understand, okay, see is an example of a team that's getting to the point where they need to start making some decisions because they're that good and their window is entering into the right now right, But Orlando's is not there yet, and so in my opinion, it makes more sense to wait. But I like good physical point of attack defenders next to Palo in France, because I don't think they're a great rim protection team compared to some of the top

tier rim protection teams in the league. So I like having that point of attack defense. And then also just in general, I like having an identity, and Orlando's identity is they're bigger and stronger than you and they're going to be a pain in the ass to deal with in the physicality areas of the game, and that to me is worth just as much in a positive way that their wee half court offense is worth in a

negative way. If that makes sense, Jason, Why do NBA teams rely so much on traditional pick and roll every possession to start an offense, to start offense instead of actually running play slash sets that are effective. Yes, it's a brute force offense, but didn't you also say that's something you really need in that playoff crunch time when

things are tight. So in general, it does, like again when it comes to at the beginning of possessions, like we talked about at the beginning part of the show. In my opinion, it's all about getting the defense into rotation, and it doesn't really matter how you do it. Like some teams are gonna do that by attacking in the post, right, Like you know the Lakers when they get into the playoff series, they'll post Ad and Lebron a lot more. Right.

We see the Rafters do this a ton where it's like og and andob or Scottie Barnes just just bullying their way to the basket until they get the defense in rotation. Right, and then there are teams that can do it through five out offense. Right. This is a lot of the Sacramento Kings, Golden State Warriors, where it's like heavy ball movement actions and sets, and that's another way to do it. And then there's your brute force teams that like Dallas for instance, that are doing it

through pick and roll. But like, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how you do it. It's more about once you get the defense in rotation, can you finish plays like by having top tier play finishers or being a great driving kick team, and like, those are the kinds of questions that kind of push

you over the edge offensively. But essentially the reason why you see pick and roll as the majority of the time what teams will do is because outside of a you know, select few archetypes of players in the league that can get the defense and rotation in other ways. Like one of the why does Golden State's five out offense work because you have Stephen Clay. Why does Sacramento's five out offense work because you Malik Monk and Deer and Fox. They do it in a different way, But

that's that's why it works. And so you kind of have to do it based on your personnel, and most teams the easiest way to get the defense and pick and roll is let me give you an example, like the Lakers in a bench group with Austin Reeves and Anthony Davis and Christian Wood just for an example, like and Ad hasn't been posting up as much this year.

So like, give Austin spread floor, two shooters in the weakside corners, shooter on the or two shooters in the corners, shooter on the weak side wing, and Ad comes up and sets a ball screen. Chances are he probably can get one of the weakside defenders to lean in. Now it's kickout pass, now di'angelo, Rustler, Torrey Prince, wherever it is attacking a close out there, Like, that's how they do it. They their their main goal there is just to get a close out opportunity for somebody. That's how

they start the possession right. So again, like it's just an easy way to do it. And the main reason why you see ball screens in particular is not only are guys like Austin and the rest of the guys in the league that's where they're most comfortable, but also when you look at the way coverages are built, with a lot of teams going with high drop and backside help, it's just the easiest way to get baked in rotations

by the coverage. Like, so many teams that I've covered this year are engaging the low man on the role man every single time inning. They're bringing the screen defender up high to help corral the ball. They're conceding the pocket pass, but they're tagging over with that with that weak side guy. So if they're they're either conceding the pocket pass right into a defender or they're denying the pocket pass with the low man and conceding that skip

pass right, they're defending the action three on two. And like, so if you can just run an action and automatically have an open man, why not just do that? And so it's a way to kind of like begin the possession. And for the record, every team runs sets. They do. It just depends on how frequently they do, and some teams run it more than others run sets more than others.

But like if a team dribbles about the floor and just runs a pick and roll, they're doing it to try to get the defense in rotation and then they're trying to play driving kick basketball out of that next question, I'm not sure how the mailbox questions work, but I would love if you could talk about if you feel that Devin Booker out playing ants so heavily means anything, or if it was just a bad game, frant I never will react to one single regular season game as

a indicator of who's better. Never forget last year in the regular season. I remember because I was coming back from a ski trip in Colorado when I was watching the game in some dive bar in like Golden Colorado or something like that. But literally, Joel Embiid just utterly obliterated Niccolo Kich just obliterated in for the world to see on national television. Anybody here think Jokic is not

better than Embiid, like obviously he is. So I would never overreact to one single regular season game, not to mention like the one of the guys in the comments pointed out something that I didn't even realize, which is that the Timberwolves were on an incredibly difficult stretch their schedule that had basically brought them to the edge of fatigue in a lot of ways. Doesn't mean Devin Booker, I believe. I believe Devin Booker is probably a little bit better than Aunt right now. I think it will

pass him very soon. But I'm just saying I'm not gonna use that particular game as an indicator. Next question. You talk a lot about typical young guard mistakes like shot selection and turnovers. Is there a way for young guards to limit them, for example, diving into a ton of tape? If yes, why don't they If you cannot learn those things on tape, you just got to play. As a fan who's never seriously played, I always wonder that. Honestly,

the guys are doing everything. They've got coaches in their ears. They're showing them like, hey, you're missing this read like, hey you're over dribbling here. Hey, this is over penetration. Hey is a bad shot. We don't really need to take the shot. Hey, defensively, you need to do this. Hey you need to sprint back. Hey you need to be in this position and help. Hey you need to do a better job fighting over screens. Like they're telling them all this stuff. It's just as with everything, it's

incremental improvement. It's not like you go have a film session you're like, oh, I just got to do that differently, and then suddenly you're a way better player. Like that's not how it works. Like everything, when it comes to the lightning quick decision making and real five on five basketball is incremental progression. You're always just getting a little

bit better. For example, like I when I was in college, I was just an athlete, so I just guarded the other team's best player shot open threes and juco I'd had to guard bigs because I was like the only big on my team. So like, like that that was what I did. But as I've gotten older, I've become a perimeter player. And I was a late bloomer, right, so I didn't play in high school and so I didn't I didn't even play in college until my third

year of college. And so I in my development, I am in a I got to phases that other people hit much earlier. So like when I was in my when I was twenty five, I was starting to kind of play a lot on the perimeter, and like I'm starting to kind of figure out how to make reads and to play five and five basketball and to be a part of a team. And then twenty six I got a little better, twenty seven I got a little better, twenty eight I got a little better, twenty nine I

got a little better. Right like now, at age thirty two, I feel really comfortable and confident as a perimeter player. But even then, like I'm still every time I play, I just get a little better at making the reads, a little better at reading at kind of like feeling the flow of a game and knowing when it's time for me to be aggressive as a score versus when it's time for me to look to pass right, Like I've got so much better since COVID at building out

a post game. I just was like not good at scoring in the post, and now it's like a strength in my game, and you can't put a small defender on me. Like it's just everything is like little tiny improvements. Everything is incremental. I'm never expecting a young guard to have two or three film sessions or two or three good ball handling workouts and then directify all their problems. Like everything is like you're always trying to just get

one percent better, If that makes any sense. Can you break down how the Bucks can build off of Dame's huge game without Yannis? So I didn't actually watch this game, but I saw the highlights. Dame to start this year is just not been the same guy in terms of a shot making right and in general it's caused of a boatload of problems in terms of just how easy it is for them to score things like the Dam Giannis pick and roll, like just the way teams are

guarding Dame. He needed to get into the habit of not in the habit, but get into a rhythm where he's making a lot of his pull up jump shots to actually drive the aggressive coverage that will open things up for them offensively. And as I said at the beginning of the season, like it was pretty clear to me that Dame came into camp out of shape and was leaving a ton of his pull up jump shots short. But what's inevitably going to happen. Dame didn't just get

bad at basketball. He's eventually going to get his legs underneath him and he's going to start making shots. And I thought that game was a huge indicator of Dame

progressing in the right direction on that front. And then Giannis comes back, That's where you can start kind of leaning into that action a little bit, and as teams get terrified of Dame making those shots, that's what will open up those short role opportunities for jannest All Right, last question, what is Steve Kurr's problem with Moses Moody.

Even when Moody is bawling, Steve will put in inferior players over him, I e. Anthony Lamb last season and this year, Corey, Joseph, and to a lesser extent, Clay when he's clearly struggling. First of all, you gotta stick with Clay because if you're gonna have any chance of winning the title, you need him to be, you know, the type of semi reliable offensive player that he was in the playoffs in twenty twenty two, right, and for

most of the regular season last year. But above and beyond that, they're like, there are some confusing ones like Joseph. I mean, Cory jos is a good NBA player, but I don't I that's the one guy where I'm like, I don't understand why he is in particular out there, but in this particular case, curse trying to find who

he trusts. And one of the tricky things with Moody in particular, in my opinion and just my time watching him, I really like him in the playoff rotation when the rotation is shrunk because he's always playing alongside good veteran players, and in those situations when he's just focusing on point of attack defense and he's in limited minutes so he can foul and it's not as big of a deal. And just taking wide open catch and shoot threes off of you know, pick and roll actions where he's getting

great looks like, that's where he's really good. It's when he's in some of these groups where multiple young players are on the floor multiple like the where they're during the regular season rotation, when there's like ten to eleven guys in the rotation and he's playing with three or four other bench guys and he has to do more off the bounce like and the overall defensive talent is

and is good. That's where I can see him struggling and so in a weird way in moments like this where it's a regular season game, excuse me, and Steph Curry's out, those are the times when Moody hasn't looked

as good. Right. So, But at the same time, like Steve Kerr, you know, every coach has the people that they trust, and then you know they have stretches where they have heavy trust in a player and they lean on him heavily, and then sometimes that trust gets broken and then suddenly they get removed from the rotation, and you know, young guys in particular are going to go through that, and that's one of the downsides of being a lottery pick playing with a with a team that

has championship expectations, you know what I mean. But at the end of the day, this is what I would tell you, know, cause I have Lakers fans that do this all the time. They're like, we need Max Christy to get more minutes, and like, you know, Camera just should get more minutes, like less Tory and Prince more

of this guy. And it's like, if you really think that more minutes for the seventh or eighth best player on your team is the difference between you being good or bad, I'm going to disagree with you, like generally speaking, like that's not going to be the kind of thing that separates success from failure in my opinion. Like should Moses Moody play a little bit more? Yeah, probably, but they're still six and seven or whatever if they do, Like, I don't think that's turning the page on a lot

of these things. Like the Lakers, finally, because of injuries, played a lot of Max Christy and he looked like a young player you know, and so again like I don't think, I think that those are conversations worth having, but they're not big picture conversations and they don't have any real bearing on the success of the team in my opinion. All Right, guys, that's all I have for

this weekend. Remember taking Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday off for Thanksgiving as I go out of town to Texas. And then when I get back, we'll cover that week's worth of games on Friday. There's always I appreciate you, guys, and I'll see you. Then the volume