Hoops Tonight - Raptors SHUT DOWN Devin Booker & Suns, Nuggets have "perfect starting lineup”

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restrictions apply. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance. Terms at sportsbook dot DraftKings dot com slash Basketball terms. All right, welcome to hoopsinight here at the volume, Happy Thursday, everybody hopeful. If you guys are having an incredible week, we have a fun show for you today. We're gonna breaking down two games. We have

Raptors Suns and Nuggets. Rockets. Haven't talked much Raptors yet this year, so we're gonna do a deep dive on the Raptors, and then I have a take about the Denver Nuggets starting lineup that's been kind of crystallizing for me over the course of the last few months that I want to unleash today. And then we have a bunch of mailbag questions for the end of the show as well. You guys are the joke before we get started, subscribe to our brand new YouTube channel. I mean a

lot to me. If you guys would take a second to scroll down and hit that subscribe button. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. Follow me on Twitter at Underscore Jason lt for the film threads that I do every morning, as well as show announcements in the last but not least, don't forget to keep dropping mailbag questions in the YouTube comments so we can keep hitting them throughout these shows. All right, let's talk some basketball. So this was a

game that the Raptors pretty much controlled throughout. The Suns briefly took a lead there in the third quarter, but it never really felt like the Raptors didn't have control of the game. They did an amazing job on Kevin Durant and Devin Booker and that was really the story of the game. They held them to thirteen for forty two shooting and stayed out of rotation for the most part, which allowed them to hold the Suns as a team to forty percent shooting and twenty seven percent from three.

And this is what they do best, at least on the defensive end of the floor. You know, they have all these big athletic wings right, a lot of like strength, so they can struggle navigating screens sometimes and so their pick and roll defense is not as good as it probably could be, or certainly not as good as some of the other teams in the league. But they're outstanding on an island, especially against scoring wings. So they hold

up really well in ISO and post up situations. They allow to zero point eighty five points per ISO, which ranks eighth in the NBA. They allow zero point nine points per post up, which ranks fifth in the NBA. And you saw from the start of this game it was ogn and O Beyon Devin Booker and Scottie Barnes on Kevin Durant, and then they occasionally spent time on opposites, whether it was cross matches or one guy was on the bench or whatever it might have been. But both

of them did an outstanding job. And one of the big things that stood out to me on the screen, and it's kind of the advantage of having a defensive talent like this is, you know, there's a reason why Kevin Durant Devin Booker are so efficient. They take tough shots, they make tough shots. There's no doubt they are tough shot makers, and they can do the improvisational stuff and the creative stuff with the best in the league. But

there's a reason why they're so efficient. There's a reason why these or high volume scorers that are consistently over sixty percent through shooting, And it comes down to the the muscle memory shots that they can get to by getting great separation, right, So they have such great footwork and such great counter moves for every move that they can usually get to a spot and get up and down into their you know, their their muscle memory into

their energy transfer and it doesn't get disrupted. And at that point, it's just like a shot they've practiced ten thousand times in their life and they're gonna make it

a bunch of the time. Right. But one of the things you notice in this particular game, especially early, was kde and Devin Booker getting to their spots and then suddenly realizing like, oh shit, here comes a long arm in my face, and all of a sudden, I have to adjust my release, and suddenly it becomes one of those improvisational, creative shots which nobody in the league is going to hit at the same rate that you can hit those muscle memory shots. Right. Like, for the most part,

efficiency comes down a shot selection. You know, like it's not there's nobody out there that's like only taking impossible shots and has a sixty percent through shooting, you're getting like a you're getting like a certain amount of shots from the flow of the offense right where you're working

off the ball. You're getting a certain amount of shots that are muscle memory shots where you get a great deal of separation and you rise up into a shot that you can knock down at a high percentage, and then you have your rescue possessions and all of the weird creative stuff that you have to do throughout the game.

But if the ball's not popping around those, you know, kind of in the flow of the offense, shots kind of retract, right, and if you're not getting as much separation, suddenly those start to retract, and suddenly most of your shots are these like really tough, creative, improvisational shots. And

like you'd see Devin Booker like rise up. There was playing like the third or fourth possession of the game, where like Devin Booker rose up to take a shot and then a late contest came and he ended up having to default to a pass and throw it away at the last second, there were like three or four shots from KD where like all of a sudden, here comes Scottie Barnes' long ass arm and he has to adjust his release point and shoot some kind of like janky one handed kind of like like push shot right.

And that's just kind of the type of personnel predicament that Toronto can put you in. And for the record, that's how good this team has been on the defensive end in the half court. They have had some issues on defense, which we're going to talk about in a minute, but when they have those guys out there on the floor, they're really tough to score against. It's not just on

the ball too, it's help side. There were a lot of possessions in last night's game where it seemed like one of them got some separation or it seemed like a you know, a Jordan Goodwin or Eric Gordon got downhill and was going to the rim and here comes another freaky athlete over the top to swap the shot. Aside, they're just a whole lot of long arms all over

the floor causing problems for people. This is where I want to do a deep dive into the raptors because it's kind of interesting how good they've been in certain areas and on certain nights versus what the actual end product has been. They're twelfth in defensive rating in terms of total points allowed per one hundred possessions, but according to Cleaning the Glass, which we'll filter out to half court as well as getting rid of garbage time, they're

the eighth best half court defense. And honestly, what's hurting them in terms of dropping that defensive rating from eighth to t twelve comes down to their transition defense, which mostly has to do with offense. They have a lot

of long rebounds and a lot of turnovers. Right. They are the twenty sixth best team in the league at knocking down three point shots by percentage, so a lot of long misses, right, And then they are twenty first and turnovers per one hundred possession, So lots of turnovers, lots of long rebounds, lots of transition opportunities, right, and

that puts your defense in a really precarious position. And they've given up one point two points per transition possession according to Synergy, which ranks twenty sixth in the NBA. Synergy has a more broad scope of transition possessions which I prefer, Like, like when you look at just fast break points, fast breaks are more or less just like runouts like one on zhers, two on ones, three on twos,

and they usually result in really quick shots. But transition basketball usually has more flow than that, right, Like there's a semi transition phase where the defense isn't set. So I actually prefer Synergy's classification for what counts as a transition possession, just so that you guys know why I

use different stats in different situations. But that specifically is what hurts their transition defense, and their transition defense is what hurts their overall defensive rating as a half court defense. The reason why they're eighth instead of higher. They don't protect the paint super well, not that goes to be that's not exactly a shocking thing. Yaka pertles a solid defensive player, but he's not the earth shattering rim protector that you see elsewhere around the league. Right. Also, it's

about scheme. This team is eighth and half court defense. Last year they were nineteenth, and a big part of it was overhelping. A big part of it was overtrapping over aggressiveness, which was very much Nick Nurse's brand. If you guys remember one of the things you'll notice they allow only thirty four to three point attempts per one hundred possessions, which is the ninth best mark in the NBA.

It's not a lot of overhelping. It's leaving guys on an island, trusting your individual defenders to do their job. It gives up some layups, but it also prevents the ball from popping around and disrupts the flow of the opponent that you're trying to guard. Right biggest areas of opportunity that I'm seeing right now on the defensive end of the floor for for Toronto is they are a

mediocre defensive rebounding team. For how much athleticism they have on the floor, they should be better, especially with all the long rebounds that are available in NBA games. And then they don't force enough turnovers considering the kind of length that they had. It's something that I'd like to

see them do better moving forward. I want to talk about Scotty Barnes for a minute, because this is a guy who kind of stagnated from year one to year two, and a lot of people were specifically disappointed because you know, coming out of his first year, it was like a lot of like smaller version of Giannis, who might be a more polished score which could be one of the

best players in the league. Right Like, that's the type of potential that Scotty Barnes as Scotty Barnes had and then we came into year two and he's pretty much the same player, and so it was kind of discouraging, right, Well,

that can go out the window. He's taken a huge leap going into year three, career high nineteen points per game, career high fifty five point three percent true shooting, career high five point five assists per game, career high nine rebounds per game, career high one point six steals per game, career high one point three blocks per game, and he's a the best jump shooting season of his career. A Scottie Barnes jump shot this year has been worth one

point one four points per shot, which is excellent. He's even got a forty eight percent effective field goal percentage on pull up jumpers, which is not bad. He had a big pull up three in the second half against the Suns last night, where like he'd kind of had the honest thing going on, or he's bringing the ball to the four and everybody's kind of backpedaling, and he just kind of walked into an easy pull up three

and he knocked it down. And that's why kind of like in the big pictures doesn't have anything to do with this particular Raptors team, but in the big picture, I'm really excited to see what Scottie Barnes looks like when they finally surround him with shooting, because again, this is a team that's twenty sixth and three point percentage and you've got a downhill, slashing wing who is an excellent passer, Scottie Barnes, Like there was a play where he attacked out of the left like kind of elbow

extended against Yaka Perle, hit him with a hard dribble move to the left and then spun back to the right. And I can't remember who exactly it was that double teamed, but the guard might have been I can't remember exactly who it was, might have been Jordan Goowin. Actually I think it was Jordan Goodman. I clipped this play. It's in my thread from this game. Jordan Goodwin does what you're supposed to do. When you double team, you wait until the guy has his back turned and it's a

live dribble. That's the hardest situation to quickly identify a double and to handle it by making the right pass right and he dives down and Scotty like literally is in the spin move, turning, reading the situation and easily makes a kickout before Jordan Goodwin can do anything right to Gary Trent Junior, who's wide open, he knocks down

the shot. He's actually more advanced as a passer at this point than Giannis was at this phase in his career, and so I'm really really excited about seeing what this team looks like in the big picture, because as interesting as this version is, which is like all this length, all this athleticism, we're flying around, there's just you know,

freak athletes everywhere. That's exciting, But in the big picture, they're not gonna do anything until they put real offensive talent around Scotty Barnes, particularly the guys who can play off the ball, and so I'm kind of excited about seeing in the future what they can build around him in the big picture. Now, as a unit, the Raptors offense has not been good they're twenty fifth and half

court offense. According to Cleaning the Glass, they are a bottom third ISO team and a bottom third pick and roll team. Anything going kind of downhill towards the rim because the guy's missing shots, and then a lot of the bigger wings struggling to kind of like identify what they're dribbling into and like getting into four or five bodies over penetrating, turning the ball over taking some really tough like push shots over the top of the defense.

The one area they've been really good offense, I shouldn't even say really good. The one area they've been above average on offense has been in the post. And it's a little bit easier for guys to read the floor they have their back turn, so it's easier for them to protect the basketball, and so they've been a little bit above average there, being led mainly by Pascal Siyakum, who actually has been the best post up player in the league this year minimum of fifty possessions one point

nine points per Pascal Siakam post up possession. Now, one of the things that I appreciate about this Raptor's offense is that they have good self awareness. They know they struggle to score in the half court, so they hunt transition opportunities as much as possible. They actually score off of steals according to Cleaning the Glass one point four to seven points per possession, which ranks fifth in the NBA,

and it's a high volume transition offense. They score twenty four point two points per game in transition according to Synergy, which ranks fifth in the NBA. Now, when I break down a team like that, when there's a lot of good and there's a lot of bad, it's like, Oh, we're this great individual defense team, but we struggle and pick and roll. We're a great transition offense, but we struggle in the half court. We can post up really well, but we can't knock down open threes and all these

different things. That's what leads to what you see this season, which is a team that hovers around five hundred any particular night. If a bunch of things go right, they can look like world beaters, and then when those other the same things go the opposite direction, they can lose even to bad teams. And so like, I don't really

have high expectations for this particular team. They're gonna hover around five hundred, but the leap from Scottie Barnes is super exciting, and I'm particularly excited in the long run to see what Toronto puts around him, especially when they put some more shooting and just higher level offensive talent, because that guy has that guy has a chance to be really, really really good in the big picture. On

the Sun's front, it's just about adjusting the length. In my opinion, this has actually been one of my like personal experiences playing basketball in twoson. It makes me sad to talk about basketball because i haven't been playing very much lately because I've been dealing with this injury. But this week I'm slowly ramping up. I'm actually gonna go to the gym and shoot around for the first time today, very very excited about that. I even already got my shoes on. I've got my uh, I've got my my

Yenescus shout out, Sabrina Yenescu. I'm gonna be testing these out in the gym today. But I when I lived in Charlotte, It's funny because I I used to play against high level competition every single day because a ton of overseas players there, a ton of college basketball players there, and so it was like every single day I had to be at the top of my game, which is something I really appreciated and something I missed about Charlotte.

And you know, I love two Soon. I don't know if I'm gonna stay here forever or not, but like there are days where I wish I lived in a better basketball city right here in Tucson, Like I am just so much more like big and athletic than most of the players I play against. Right but there are

some good basketball players here, some lanky, athletic wings. And then I also play in money tournaments and I go out of town sometimes and play, and so every once in a while end up in a situation where I'm playing against the level of talent that I used to play against when I was in Charlotte. And it's funny

because every single time there's an adjustment. Like my favorite example of this is like one of the college players that I work out with every summer, when they come home and I play against them, it's like, all of a sudden, like every dribble move you do needs to be a little tighter, and you need to move a little faster. That swing pass you make or that post entry you make like you used to be able to just throw it. Now you need to use a pass fake or you need to put real pace on it. Right,

It's like that step back three. The level of intensity I used to be able to get away with that in against the talent regularly here Tucson is not the same as the one I need to use against the kids that I'm working out with over the summer. And so like every single time I get back into that environment, it's an adjustment, and I usually struggle the first day or two, and then once I get you know, get the timing down and I kind of get adjusted to it,

it's fine. Like have Devin Booker and Kevin Durant like always struggled against long athletic teams, No, like they've succeeded against teams like that throughout their NBA careers. This is more an example of just like in the dregs of the regular season, when it's like a random Wednesday night and you show up in Toronto on the road and it's like, here comes Scottie Barnes, Here comes Pascal Siakam, Here comes O G N and O B. And it's like, shit, man, I'm not ready for this, you know, and like it

can it can be an adjustment. And that's why, like if you were to actually play a seven game series between the Suns and Raptors, which will probably never happen, like you'd see by like game two or game three, KD and Devin Booker would make all those little tweaks and adjustments they need to make to get their shots off and to get the type of separation that they need, and then they would be right at least a hell of a lot more fine than they were last night.

What were they thirteen for forty two or something like that. So I don't really want to overthink that. A lot of specific Sun's role players missed good looks. Devin Booker tweaked his ankle, that was an issue. Grayson Allen didn't play in this game. It was just an all around bad night. So I don't want to pay too much attention to it. Now. There are a couple of schematic things that I want to look at. There will be teams,

particularly at the very top level of competition. So let's say it's a Let's say you're in a series against Denver and you're facing off against you know, KCP and Aaron Gordon kind of like last year. Right, Let's say you make it to the finals and you have a Boston Celtics team that's gonna throw a bunch of athletic, you know, perimeter defenders at you. I wonder if there is a team that can successfully make all three of them work, because that's the thing we keep forgetting about

brad Beal in this situation. And like, you can have a great defender for KD and a great defender for Devin Booker. But if Bradley Beale can get the defense in rotation by beating his matchup, then everyone's playing in

the flow of the game. And now, like KDE and Devin Booker are attacking with advantages consistently, then it can fall apart pretty quickly, right, And so that'll be something interesting because I think the way you beat Phoenix is you have outstanding perimeter defenders for those two guys, and you make them work really hard, and you stay out of rotation as much as possible, and maybe you can lead them to be less efficient and then beat them

in every other area of the game. Right, And you know, last night was an interesting example of a Raptors team that had bodies for KD and Devin Booker, and obviously, like it's they have other limitations and I think, like I think Phoenix could would beat Toronto in a playoff series. I don't think you have enough offensive talent. The Sons

would just figure out how to get stops. But it is such a it's an interesting thing to keep an eye on, and it's why the Bradley Beal acquisition in particular is so important in the big picture and why I'm excited to see them all three play together, which we haven't seen yet this year. And then the last thing was the offensive rebounds. They give up fifteen offensive rebounds in this game. Now they are ninth in defensive rebound percentage on the season, so it's kind of like

a matchup thing. But they did what they kept doing is finding ways to pull, you know, the bigger Sons players away from the basket. And then suddenly you had a six to nine wing that's trying to be boxed out by Jordan Goodwin and he just has no chance. And that like, that's you know, when we saw that

in the Denver series. By the way, it has a bunch of size on the front line and they the Denver Nuggets got offensive rebounds on thirty one point five percent of their own shot attempts in that Sun series, which was a problem. So that's something to keep an eye on as well. Now the Denver Houston game. So I Houston, if I'm not mistaken, still hasn't won a game on the road, and they really struggled in this game.

I thought they were really sloppy defensively. They were botching switches right and left and missing rotations on the back end, which against the Denver team, you're just gonna get absolutely killed when you do that. And for whatever reason, Houston hasn't been able to get their defense to travel on the road the way that it has been at home. But I want to focus on Denver in this particular game because you know, Jamal Murray was back, Aaron Gordon's

still out. They played a really tough schedule with this stretch where Jamal Murray was out, a lot of good opponents on the road, and so now you get Jamal back,

you come home and suddenly things turn around, right. But so I don't really overlook, I don't really over emphasize or focus on that stretch there where they because I did what They were six and one to start the season with Jamal, and then they went six and five after that, and I mostly attribute that to just down your second best player, really tough schedule with a lot of road games against really good teams, but they looked just as unguardable as ever last night without Aaron Gordon,

by the way, Justin Holiday filling in for him in the starting lineup. And I was talking yesterday with the Nerd Sesh guys and they asked me, they were like, do you think that that Nicole Jokic is the most

unguardable offensive player in the history of the NBA? And I said, like, I can only speak from my personal experience in the sense that, like, as someone who's had to root against both Steph and NIKOLEA Jokic Lebron, I'm biased, but having had to root against Stephan Nikola Jokic, I felt more helpless as a fan rooting against Nikola Jokic than I did against Steph. And that to me, there was an inevitability to the Nikola Jokic experience that was

straight up painful to watch. And even Lebron, who I think at his peak was a better player than Nikola Jokic, but it came from every other area of the game just because of what he could do as an athlete. Even Lebron James at his absolute peak, I don't think had the inevitable nature of offensive success that Nikola Jokic has, and that makes him, in my opinion, the most unguardable offensive player of all time. But I don't want to

talk about Jokic today because we talked about that. We did a deep dive about that with the Nerd Sach guys again, go to their YouTube channel and we did an hour and a half on a bunch of stuff. But we talked Jokic for a while. I I was texting with Carson this morning because I think that the Denver starting lineup is the most perfect basketball lineup ever built.

And to emphasize this, I asked Carson this morning. I said, if you had to take one player away from that starting lineup, like a season ending injury that would maintain the Nuggets as the championship favorite, who would it be? And the problem is is it's a really, really tough question because Aaron Gordon is vitally important for a bunch

of reasons. Took several high leverage defensive assignments last year, from Lebron James to Kevin Durant to Jimmy Butler, and did an excellent job in literally every single matchup and on the offensive end of the floor, the work he does out of the dunker spot, just in general, as a high IQ offensive player, his vertical spacing is vitally important. With how much nikolea Jokic actually operates away from the basket right, so it's like you can't do Aaron Gordon.

So what about Michael Porter Junior. Well, he's an outstanding rebounder, averages what eight rebounds a game this year, a career high one point eight offensive rebounds per game. He's been super active on the offensive glass this season, just torching teams off the ball every single time the Rockets missed a switch. Last night he knocked down the shot a it's something great. I put the number on my on

my Twitter feed. But like a unguarded catch and shoot, Michael Porter junior jump shot has been worth over one and a half points. Any spot up possession at all for Michael Porter Junior has been worth one point two eight points, which is off the charts. Good and then he's been a really good help defender for them. So it's like he's the guy when you double Jokich who's making every damn shot. He's the guy who's helping you

on the glass, helping you in helpside defense. I'm not sure you can replace his value with anybody else on that roster. And then it's like, Okay, what about Contavious Calbo Pope, Well, he's your best perimeter guard defender. He's the guy who's gonna guard to Devin Booker, He's the guy who's gonna guard to Steph Curry. He's the guy who's gonna guard an Austin reevesor whoever it is that you're gonna face in these late round playoff series in

the Western Conference. And the drop off offensively from someone like him to Christian Brown is pretty significant. And this is not I'm not trying to diminish Jokic in any way, shape or form. That's not the purpose of this discussion. I'm really just shouting out the Nuggets in general and the job they've done building this particular lineup, because when you combine the synergy between Jokic and Murray as a two man game and obviously, we've talked all about everything

that Jokic does. Jamal Murray I ranked him as a top fifteen player in the NBA. I think that he I think I've had him at sixteen if I remember correctly. But I think that he played at a star level in the NBA playoffs last year. I think he's gonna make an All Star team this year if he can stay healthy long enough. Like Jamal Murray's awesome, But it's

not just those two. It is perfect complimentary pieces that Nuggets have been an excellent defense this year in large part because they're anchored by two excellent defensive players, and Aaron Gordon and Katavias Calboll Pope, and you're getting the excellent help side defense from Michael Porter g Michael Porter Junior and KCP are so vitally important to their backside spacing. Aaron Gordon is so vitally important in terms of his

vertical spacing. I'm actually really curious if anybody has an alternative opinion, and I'd like to see those in the YouTube comments. Maybe we can hit him in a mailbag question later on this week. But like, can anybody think of a five man grouping that more perfectly compliments each other on both ends of the floor than the Denver Nuggets that lineup Jokis, Murray Porter Junior kcp in Gordon had a plus ten net rating in the playoffs last year,

which is insane, absolutely insane. Playoff basketball against an outstanding Timberwolves team that I've been high on for a while and it was a top tier contender this year, against a Phoenix Suns team who was more limited last Yer than they are this year, and a Lakers team that's more limited last Yer than they are this year, but to very very good teams led by very very good players, and then the best coach in basket ball in the Miami Heat in Eric Spolstra, and they had a plus.

They outscored those those groups by ten points per one hundred posessions. It's insane. That same group outscored opponents by thirteen points per one hundred posessions in the regular season and only a slight drop off against the higher level competition of the playoffs. I just that's the thing is, like, obviously any contender suffers a significant injury, they drop down a level, so that this is not a unique problem

to Denver. But I don't think there's a single guy in that starting lineup that you can sacrifice and maintain Denver as the championship favorite. But it's because of this syenergy of that group that I do view Denver as the championship favorite. They don't have the top tier talent that Boston has. They don't have the top tier talent that like, like Damian Lillard's a better player than Jeal Murray. Hate to break it to you, but like it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter because the synergy of that group. That's what I love about basketball. Shout out Mark Titus. Basketball is more art than science, right, But because basketball is more art than science, it's not a out adding up the talent. It's about the synergy of the group. And I can't remember ever seeing a five man grouping have better synergy than that Denver Nuggets lineup. All right, Moving on to our mailbag. First question, at what point this season can we say we know how good a team

really is? Is it like forty games, all Star break, trade deadline. I don't think there's any specific amount of regular season games. I look at specific trends. You know, it's more important to show what you can do when

you get to a certain point in the playoffs. I can't say forty games because we've seen too many teams be bad for forty games and then look great, right like we've seen we saw Boston Celtics team in twenty twenty two start the season extremely mediocre and then just start kicking everyone's ass, right like we saw the Los Angeles Lakers start last year as a team that was outside of the play in tournament for most of the season and then suddenly made it to the Western Conference finals.

So I don't think there's any specific span of games. All we're trying to do is learn specifically from the schematics. Right. I can't tell you how many times, like I'll watch a game and I'll just be like shout. I'll be like, oh, wow, Mo Wagner looked really good on that possession. Oh he did a really good job on that. Oh he's bullying everybody here. Oh he's knocking down the spot up threes. I don't even realize he has twenty seven points because

I'm not looking at the box score. I'm just watching the players playing the game. Because what I'm trying to do is, like, really, a regular season result means nothing it means absolutely nothing. You know, like you're gonna have a hard time getting anybody to any specific regular season outcome in terms of what happens on the scoreboard at

the end to sway me in the big picture. What I'm more concerned about is like specific exos and o's things that are happening, because at the end of the day, you have to beat the team four out of seven times to eliminate them in the NBA playoffs, and so like a lot of times, I'm not necessarily looking at a specific forty game chunk or anything. I'm looking at lineup groupings. Oh man, this lineup can really do well. Oh man, this lineup struggles with this. Okay, they've won

all these games, but they're really struggling with XYZ. Right. So, I don't think it's necessar about the number of games. It's more about just seeing repeated examples of specific lineups thriving in versaal situations, right, if that makes sense. Next question, what is your opinion on Kamingo with the Warriors. He looks great during the preseason, but has not had many bright spots since the season started. I felt like he often looks a bit nervous on ball and reluctant to

make a play. Is the Warriors kerr reluctance to let him stay on the court as soon as he makes some mistake, stunting his confidence in his overall development. Do you think the Warriors should just trade him? So, one of the things I've noticed with Kaminga is a lot of high end potential as an on ball creator. We've seen this in the post. He's a freak athlete. He draws a lot of fouls. That's always a really good sign.

A lot of really good stuff there, right. But one of the things that Kaminga is struggling with right now is playing within the flow of a five man unit. And that becomes a problem because he's playing with a team in particular with Golden State and a coach and Steve Kerr is hyper focused on the flow of a

five man unit, right. And so it's one of those things where I think Kaminga's value as a talent and as a trade asset is actually really really high compared to what his actual impact is on this particular team. And so it really just comes down to aggression. Now, if you're wanting me to say, don't trade Kminga. I've

been saying trade Kaminga literally since before they won the title. Like, I'm a big believer in pushing your chips in, and if it were up to me, you'd pair you know, Chris Paul's salary with Jonathan Kaminga and you try to bring back someone like a Jeremy Grant or one of the players from the Toronto Raptors. I had one of the guys. The next mail back question actually the upgrade at the four for the Warriors between Wiggins and Draymond you describe sounds to me like Siakim or Anonobe. Do

you like the fitting? Could you see the Warriors going after them? Those are other examples that are excellent. The reason why I didn't throw them out yesterday is like, I really think that the Raptors have an outsized value of all their players, and I think that specifically, when it comes to getting a Siakam or an Anonobi, you're gonna have to overpay, and at a certain point you ask yourself, like, how much better is a Siakam than a Jeremy Grant, really? And what if I could get

him for less? You know what I mean? And those are the kinds of decisions you have to make. But in my opinion, I'm a big believer in, like, if you've got a if you've got Steph Clay, Andrew Wiggins and let's just call it Jeremy Grant for the sake of this particular discussion, and Draymond Green, and off the bench,

you have a Kevon Looney. And off the bench, you've got a Moses Moody, and off the bench, you know you've got Potzamski playing a certain amount, and if Gary Payton can come back from his calf injury, and you've got Dario sarag I looked at it, and I'm like, man, they are a lot more athletic than they used to be. They've got a lot more scoring pop in the starting

lineup than they used to have. This is now. You've now turned Jonathan Kaminga into a veteran forward that like has played in big playoff games and has guarded Lebron James in the Western Conference finals, and a guy that's shooting the shit out of the basketball this year. And I'm like, I just feel a lot more comfortable with that unit. Right, do you lose the long term potential of Jonathan Jonathan Caminica, Yeah, you do, but it's been it's been made abundantly clear that he's not ready to

be a reliable piece in a playoff rotation. Right, So if that's the case, the question becomes what's your goal here, because if you don't believe in that core, then it's time to start trading the veterans and building around Jonathan Kaminga and Moses Moody and Podziemski and Trace Jackson Davis. Right. But if that's not the case, if you do believe in Steph Curry, which I still do, I still think he's one of the best players. I think he's firmly

in the top three four players in the world. If you still believe in that, you invest in it and in the plane. The two timelines thing worked for you in twenty twenty two. But like, don't play the results, play the process. That was a good result in over

a process I disagreed with. And you could argue that if they had made that sort of trade, because Jonathan Kaminga and Moses Moody basically didn't play at all in that playoff run, you could argue that they would have had a much higher chance of repeating in addition to having probably won more comfortably in that particular year, right, and they might be in a better position now. And so my thing is like, I'm a big believer in committing to the timeline at least when it comes to

having significant personnel needs, right. I think that that's you know, I've heard a lot of Laker fans and they're like, you know, Ruey Hotchmurrow, we can't trade Ruey hot Chamura. He's playing really good basketball. He's really good playoff player for us. Last year we just signed him to the long term deal. Or they'll say, like, he's your guy

who plays the four after Lebron James retires. And I want to be like, well, you're now talking about after Lebron James retires this year, you're one of the top six or seven contenders, Like why are you not? You know, and Ruey plays the same position as Lebron. Now, I'm not saying give it rue way away for nothing, but if you have an opportunity to go get a Jeremy Grant, you get him. Because Jeremy Grant can play alongside Lebron James and Anthony Davis in the starting lineup. There's a

reason why Ruey hasn't. Ruey's not as good as a screen navigator as Jeremy Grant. He's not as good of a perimeter defender as Jeremy Grant. He's not as good at playing in the flow of the offense as Jeremy Grant. Ruey Hachi Mura's a really damn good player, and I like him, and I think he's gonna succeed wherever else he goes. And if you can't get a high caliber player back, you keep Ruey Hachimura. But like, again, look at your timeline. Lebron's thirty nine in December, you gotta

invest steph is thirty five. Now, Like, at a certain point, if you don't think Kaminga can help you win a championship this season, then all you're really doing is sacrificing the potential ceiling of this team to maintain the potential future. But you're also hurting that because these guys have value. See the point, Like, you're actually better off either investing entirely in this group and making and maximizing this era,

or investing entirely in that future era. Otherwise you might have two mediocre eras, if that makes sense, And specifically when it comes to Kaminga, and I say, I'd say the same thing about Rui is a Ruyacha Muray Anthony Davis Frontline winning you the title? I don't think so is a Jonathan Kaminga. And I think Jonathan can be really good. But is Jonathan Kaminga flashing Jannis Jokic, Anthony Edwards? You know, is he shake Gillis Alexander? Is he flashing

that level of high, high end play. I'm not saying it's off the table, but it's certainly a much longer shot. And so that's the thing is, like it's not like you're in it's not like you're being reluctant to trade away a franchise cornerstone like Jonathan giving A might be that, but it's so up in the air at this point and and and there hasn't been that strong of an

indication in that direction. And so yeah, like I'm a big believer in like pusher chips, and it just is difficult to say at this point who's going to be available. You don't want to overpay either, and so it's more of a discussion that's easier to get in the weeds about when we get closer to February. Next question, I agree with your assessment on the current state of refing. I have some other thoughts that I'd like your thoughts on.

How how do you think they should officiate smaller stout defenders walking taller, skinnier offensive players out of position even when they have the ball. It seems like athletic perimeter defenders get away with being overly physical on less athletic offensive players as long as they do it in spurts, like they'll get physical and force the ball handler to pick up the ball, like with a hand check or pressuring, but then back off as the offensive player is recovering balance,

effectively blowing up the play. Finally, it seems like stronger offensive players have to be overly cautious of having offensive fouls called on them due to flopping, but when they play straight up don't initiate contact, they get fouled and then don't get calls, which would have been mitigated if they could play with more force. So that was actually

really well thought out. The specific dynamics that you're talking about as it relates to, you know, timely physicality and then backing off, That to me is gamesmanship and It's what all really good defenders do. The difference between the best defenders in the league and the lesser defenders is they're good at fouling without getting called. Like that's the thing.

Like Draymond Green has made a career out of fouling without getting called, and like he has found every single angle in loophole in the rule book to be physical and to disrupt offensive players without getting fouls called on him. And it's made him one of the best defensive players of the generation. And it's not just him, it's all of them. You know, who's a serial hand checker, Kawhi Leonard,

who's considered the best perimeter defender of this generation. You know, you know it was a serial hand checker, Andre Gudala. And because they were so damned strong, they used to do it and it would be super impactful, right, Like a lot of these guys do that. They're just good at playing within the margins. Now, as far as officiating in general, I think the problem is is officials in particular fall for flopping because they watch the offensive player

too much. Now, from what I understand, refs are actually trained to focus on the defensive player and watch what they're doing and only whistle them when they do things that are wrong. But more often than not, they end

up reacting to what the offensive player is doing. And so I think in the big picture, if referees were just never paying attention to the offensive player and only watching what the defensive player is doing and then being more picky about what they decided to call, I think that would solve a lot of their problems and to

some of the grifty stuff that we see around the league. Jason, in a previous mail back question, you talked about the roster in balance the Pistons currently have, particularly the lack of ball handling and a shooting putt power forward, and with a losing streak going on, that imbalance is really being exposed during these long stretches where we remain competitive on defense but can't buy a bucket on the other

end to capitalize. Troy Weaver has been taking heat for not doing anything this offseason to address these imbalances, but I understand why no moves were made. The only free agent I could have seen helping us was Cam Johnson, and Brooklyn was not going to give him up. That said, it's becoming evident to this point in time the front office has not given Kid the tools to succeed the same way as some of his peers have been, like

Frondz or Mobiley Scottie Barnes. The Pistons are expected to have up to sixty million in cap space and a deeper pool of free agents that can help address the lack of spacing and aggregate ball handling. If you were the GM, would you go out and make a move for that ball handling for now to help the core and re establish an identity, or simply wait until the off season and get in play for someone like Siakam, Miles Bridges, Tobias Harris, any of those last three names

would help immensely. But I do fear by waiting too long, you're reinforcing bad habits and destroying the core's But that's the trick that that last sentence there is like it's always a fine line between like being patient to make sure you don't waste resources before it really can help you, and then the habits thing, because you want your young

basketball players to learn how to play good basketball. Now. Fundamentally, part of the problem is is when you're running out Asar Thompson in two bigs, your you're just your offense is doomed to fail from the beginning. And Asar has been like last I checked, and it's been about a week, but he's been basically the worst jump shooter in the NBA so far this year, and so that's gonna hurt you.

And Isaiah Stewart, I know, has made some shots, but it's like one of those things where teams don't guard him out there, and that that kind of is a bigger problem than the the occasional three point shot that he makes, right, And so a couple things, boy, and Bogdanovic is allegedly coming back soon's that's gonna be something that helps you. He is kind of a greaser of

the wheel, so to speak. I think when it comes to the free agent market, you just have to be careful, you know, because what you don't want to do is bring in a player that's just gonna to kind of like hamper that development, right, Like ironically, a guy like

Tobias Harris. I don't know if he'd be even interested in playing at that in that type of rebuilding situation, but he's a guy who'd be perfect because he's such a smart off ball player who attacks mismatch as well and can run the floor and transition and knock down open three point shots, although he's been in a little bit of a shooting slump as of late. But like like Pascal Siakam is a guy like I don't know

how he helps your specific situation. It's one of those things where it's I think, I think lineup construction would go a long way. Like I know you're defending better with two bigs, but I almost feel like you're better off learning how to play better offense with more offensive talent on the floor and maybe putting someone like boy On at the three ex just me at the four, and maybe move us Our Thompson to the bench and get Jade and Ivy more reps as much as you can.

And I at the end of the day, though, like they're bad. They're so bad, and they're so far away from being good. There is no one thing that's gonna fix it. There's no one free agen signed, there's no you know, moving boy On into the starting lineup, There's no you know, Jade and Ivy finally finds his groove and gets more minutes with the starters. There's no anything like that. It's like you need total overhaul, you're so far back, You're you're very much where like Philadelphia was

there before Joel Embiid really took off. Like there's a lot of interesting stuff going on, and like I really like Kate, and I really like Jade and Ivy and A sar Thompson's like one of the best perimeter defender prospects we've ever seen, and Jalen Duran is super exciting, but like none of it is meshing into a kind of like coherent basketball team. And so at the end of the day, like like unless the right type of shooting four comes you write it out with boy On Bogdanovic,

and you hope somebody pops in the draft. You hope someone like a sar Thompson, Like that's as weird as a Star actually was a better shooter than a men Thompson coming out of the draft. So like you hope maybe he kind of figures it out in the long run. But I don't have easy fixes for you, because you're just gonna be bad for a long time and that's really unfortunate. But at the end of the day, it's not going to take two or three you know fixes, It's going to take six or seven decisions by that

front office to repair the situation that they have. Have you taken a shot like the one Steph got called for an offensive foul on and what are your thoughts on protecting the shooter versus kicking out when momentum takes

you while shooting across your body. It's tough because I'm a big believer kicking out is not so much like it depends on the footwork, Like if you're the specific shot you're referencing where Steph kicked out, he was moving to his right, and like you train shooters when they're moving to their right to swing their right foot around to help them square up when they're in mid air. But at the same time, like I don't, I think you have to give defenses a chance to contest shots.

And I'm a big believer in your landing area should be more or less where you took off from. And once you start giving leniencees outside of that landing area, it makes it too hard to guard, which I think is bad for the league. But at the same time, I wouldn't call it an offensive foul either. I like I would just if if he kicks out any remains inside his landing area, I think you call a foul, and if he kicks out and ends up going outside of the landing area, I think it's a no call,

and you play on. I think, like the only time where I get really where I get really bothered by it is when it's like a fake shot. And that's like the shit that James Harden used to do, where like he would take a shot and land five feet in front of where he took off from, and it's like, dude, that's not real basketball. But the shooter moving to his right and swinging his right leg around a little bit, that to me is a normal basketball play that you

train kids at a young age to do. And so like, from that standpoint, I think I agree with you that calling in an offensive foul is silly. Two more questions. Guys, you mentioned how Ad is regressed with his jump shot. Dude to him taking two months off, But how about Jokic seems to take a long break every off season and he's still incredible. This also moves to your point that he and Steph and Lebron are all insane. Jokic

doesn't seem to have that same obsession. A couple of things I think Jokic plays up the lack of obsession thing. I don't remember who it was it told. It might have been Adam Marris, but the Jokic is obsessive in the offseason. Two. I know he puts forward this like I don't give a shit personality. But here's the thing. You don't become that good at basketball without giving a shit. He, from what I understand, takes coaching clinics over the course

of the summer. I'm sure he does practice his touch. He also, just in terms of natural ability, has transcendently great touch, and I think that's a big difference between him and Anthony Davis, who's a guy who doesn't have great touch, who works really hard to become okay at it right. But like, yeah, I don't think. I don't think. I don't buy into Jokic is like fake, I don't give a shit attitude. Last question, once, do the Miami Heat have to do to be taken seriously as a

championship contender? Going to the finals and beating the one seed clearly is not enough to please the media talking heads well will change perception for them. I suspect winning a championship isn't even I get it. I understand as a Heat fan when you see your team succeed that it's frustrating to not see them get the props that they get. Here's all I would say. I'll say two things. Did anybody think Miami had a chance to beat Denver?

I did not. I'm curious if there are non Heat fans out there who actually think Miami had a chance to beat Denver. I would like to hear it, because I feel like that was the thing? Is it? Like, yeah, they made it to the finals, but they upset a lot of flawed teams, and then they ran into a team that was clearly better than all of them, and they had no chance. Right. And so the second piece of that is when would I take the Heat seriously as a contender? As soon as they trade for more

offensive talent. It's that simple. Give me a better version of Tyler Harrow, like a legitimate backcourt offensive weapon next to Jimmy Butler and bam Adebayo, and I'm all in. I Like they say they're not interested in Zach Lavine, I don't know who they're interested in. There's got to be somebody. They got to go after somebody, But even just to Martin Rosen. Like if the Heat got Demarta Rosen, I'd be back on board and view them as a

championship contender. They just need somebody in that backcourt who can provide high level offensive creation. In the playoffs, Heimi Hawk has has been incredible. They hit on these fringe pieces all the time, and that's how they keep getting the next Caleb Martin, the next Max Strews, the next Kay Vincent. They keep churning those guys out. But they need something at a higher level than that, because those role players will be round out the situation. But they

need more than what they have. All right, guys, that is all I have for today is always as sincerely appreciate your sport. One more show this week tomorrow and then we'll take the weekend off. I will see you guys. Then the volume