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Timberwolves Nuggets. And I could think of nobody better than my friend Adam Morrez, who works it covers the Nuggets as well as the rest of the league through the All NBA podcast as well as through DNBR. Just a basketball mind that I have a ton of respect for Super Super Lucky to have him on the show today, and I'm excited to get into a bunch of stuff Adam. I want to start with the Lakers series though, because a really interesting thing happened to me as a fan.
That's the one team that I have a little bit of a fan rooting interest in, you know, going into that series, I did not think they had a real chance. Like there was always like that tiny little chance, you know, like the if things break right and everybody plays out of their mind, you have that chance. But like I never really believed, and I didn't believe in Game one, didn't believe in Game two when they were up twenty, didn't believe in Game three when they led at the half,
didn't believe in Game four when they won. But there was a brief moment in Game five. I wouldn't have picked the Lakers, just because it's really difficult to beat a good team four times in a row under any circums dances, let alone when they have the best player of the world and they're the defending champ. But there was a brief moment in game five where I felt like the Lakers were starting to gain some ground mentally
and physically. They started to feel more confident in the matchup, and they had kind of figured out what their advantages were. And obviously through the KCP ankle injury in Jamal Murray's calf, it just felt like the Lakers were starting to gain some ground, and I thought that they went from having
a tiny chance to like an actually acknowledgable chance. So am I just being a crazy fan or did you feel a similar type of trend over the course of that series, and again not saying the Lakers would have won, but went from very unlikely to at least having some sort of opportunity there.
Well, I think what you're hinting at here is Denver didn't look good. And I think the one thing that we always have to remember in the series is that there's always one team that's more urgent. Denver never felt urgency in the series, outside of maybe the second half of Game two, when I think they let the game get a little too far out of hand and then by the skin of their team made it back. But
¶ Were Nuggets on cruise control vs. Lakers?
in Game five, I just thought Denver and it really through the whole series, I thought Denver took the Lakers very lightly. They seemed bored with the series, and I think the team.
You know, projected that.
I'll say, I don't think anybody on the record came out and said, Hey, I think that this is a series that Denver had a hard time getting through. But that was the sense I got So if they lost that game and you have to go on the road back to Los Angeles, does that mean they would muster up the energy like Okay, let's all lean forward now, let's get into it. Or is that one that maybe would have taken the wind out of the sale.
I don't know.
What I will say is that I thought Anthony Davis was very comfortable scoring on Yokic in that series. Jokic never really solved that, and then Jamal Murray was banged up, clearly did not play well in any of the games in the series save for the fourth quarters of Games two in Game five, So I think you look at that and it's easy for me to say I think the Nuggets had another gear that they have not tapped into, and that'll be a storyline as we move on to
the next series. But at the same time, Denver looked tired, Murray looked banged up, and I think they were very happy to get that series done when they did.
Yeah, you know, I said the same thing after Game four. I was like, Denver has not had urgency, meaning like they were I felt like they were approaching the series with a certain level of professionalism, like they were given their eighty five ninety percent effort. But again, when you beat a team that many times in a row, it's impossible to feel threatened. And there's also no way to replicate like true urgency, which I look at it like
an actual fear of losing. Right. That was what was interesting to me about Game five though, is like it felt like a game the Nuggets kind of needed, but the Lakers were able to kind of remain competitive throughout at the end of the day. Though, like I thought, there was one specific thing that prevented me from ever really believing the Lakers had a real chance, and it had to do with perimeter defense, which I think is going to be interesting as we get into the Timberwolve series.
But during the regular season, the Lakers had like a one to ninety four I think defensive rating and the clutch against Denver, they were scoring like every time down the floor, and then Game two k around and they scored on eight of their final nine possessions, right, and like then we get into Game five and once again it was like at the end of the game, it was like another Jamal Murray driving layup in pick and roll,
another pull up jumper to win the game. Obviously he hit three on an offensive rebound, put back or offensive rebound at the end of the game too. To me, it really came down to the Lakers never had a guy who could guard Jamal well, Like I think Austin did his job within the game plan, but he just didn't have the physical tools necessary to really make Jamal uncomfortable. And then the matchup that killed us all series was
that Michael Porter Junior matchup. And again, part of that's roster construction, Like when you roll out two forwards at the three and four that can't navigate screens, you're gonna run into issues with MPJ kind of running off of screens. It wasn't just Ruey either, Lebron lost him a few times in the series as well. But like that, that
to me, was where that matchup went south for the Lakers. Ironically, when we go into the next round, like I viewed Denver, I view Minnesota as a much tougher defensive matchup for Denver, but a much easier offensive matchup. I think some of the damage that the Lakers did to the Nuggets in the paint had a lot to do with not just Lebron and Ad as rollers, but their IQ and read
and reactability on that back line. Like, I just don't think you're gonna get that from Go Bear in Towns in this series, and so did you kind of like get a similar sense where like some of the unique ability of Lebron and Ad as a front court duo caused some problems for Denver that other teams in the league just can't.
There's no question, and the team themselves reiterated that after the series. I mean, Jamal Murray, I don't know if you saw his postgame presser after a Game five, he was as impressed with Lebron as I was. He talked about how he was one of his favorite players growing up, and then he just kept saying he makes you think every playing well, you're out there, you're just constantly having to think through And look, they were a seven seed, was flawed. It wasn't like they were a phenomenal all
around team. But I just think there's a reason Lebron has only lost what eleven playoff series or something in his entire career.
He's got eighty and eleven or something. All the time.
He's so good in the playoffs, and even with that roster he just put so much pressure on you, and then Anthony Davis had his jump shot going. I think he was very confident against Jokich. I it's funny because Yokic's numbers are tremendous. I thought he did a great job against Jokich, one of the best jobs we've seen, you know, on both ends, putting pressure on him on offense and then defensively. Obviously they did that quick double, but in the moments when he was one on one,
he made life difficult on Jokich. So I one hundred percent agree that. I think those two guys did a great job. I think the Lakers are better than people probably will give them credit for. And just like last year, the series was probably closer than the five games would would indicate. But at the same time, Denver has been doing this now for two years with this core five
and for seven years with that core too. Murray and Jokic, they have so many reps it's hard to it's hard I think for people to their heads around how many reps that unit has together, how they've seen everything, and both game winners, Jason came with no timeout. It's no small detail. And then if you look at all the details in those plays, all the little things guys did where they got under the court. That was a team
that if you called a timeout. Most teams, if you call it time out and draw up that exact action, they would not be able to execute it with these subtleties that Denver did, and they did that with no timeout, and that's what makes them special. So when they win all these games. Close to me, there's a level of luck involved. Naturally, it's just math, you know, short ten possessions is not that many, so ball bounces your way.
It makes a huge difference. But there's something to Denver that I say, it's not all luck and it's not all variants. That team just does every detail right in those moments, and it's why they're the best clutch team.
Yeah, when you brought up the seven years, I immediately thought about Malone's comments after Game five, like trust the best two man game in the league, Like because it's just a certain level of like it almost is instinctual for the two of them after all this time, and like last note on the Lakers before we move on, like there's gonna be a lot of moments at their expanse first round exit. They both of them talked about
how they wanted Denver again. One thing I'll say, though, I think Lebron and Ad put their money where their mouth was. Like a Jokic kicked AD's ass last year, and Jamal soundly out played Lebron. I thought Ad closed the gap a little bit. Obviously didn't surpass him, but he could closed the gap a little bit. And I thought Lebron, actually, outside of the clutch shooting, was a
better player in this series than Jamal Murray. So like shout out to them, but like at the end of the day, it actually just shined a giant light on the chasm between the down the roster competence, and like again, like I think it's actually fascinating that the Lakers went about a bizarre roster build with two skill guards and two big forwards instead of having a natural two and a natural three. And who were the two guys who let them down in the biggest way in the series.
It was the second skill guard and the second big forward, Ruey and d Lo, And I thought that was fascinating. So like, in a weird way, it was like I was proud of the Lakers. I was proud of Lebron and Ad but it was like very revealing as to why there's a gap between these two teams and what they need to address moving forward. So looking at Wolves Nuggets, I'm gonna read through some quick numbers before we get into the weeds here. So season series was two two.
The only time all ten starters played was way back in early November, like I think it was November one, So we're talking about that just feels like an eon ago. Denver won the most recent game all the starters played except for Kat and Jamal Murray was on a minutes restriction in that game. I think he only played like
twenty six minutes and that was the game. If you remember where they went without Jamal in those like early second quarter early fourth quarter units that he usually leads, and just really good basketball for Peyton Watson and Aaron Gordon as they just kind of manufactured buckets and kind of won in a classic Denver fashion. It was competitive and then Denver pulled away late. The metrics for the whole season, in all four games, the Nuggets had a
one nine point one offensive rating. The Wolves had a one fourteen point nine, although they had some blowout wins in games where Jamal Murray didn't play. Denver dominated the rebounding battle. They grabbed fifty four point two percent of available rebounds. They also rebounded thirty three percent of their own misses. I think that's fascinating because Minnesota destroyed Phoenix on the glass. That was a huge part of that series. They grabbed forty percent of their own misses in that series,
So I think that's gonna be interesting. Denver one points in the paint in the season series two sixteen to one eighty six. Denver won second chance points fifty six to forty six. Minnesota won fast break points fifty six to forty seven, and big one here one points off a turnovers seventy five to fifty. I think that's gonna be a huge A narrative in this series is just how well Denver can take care of the basketball and
on the gambling side of things. According to DraftKings, the Nuggets are currently a minus two to zero five favor That's pretty substantial, so Vegas views Denver as the better team.
So let's start with Denver on offense, and as I mentioned at the start of the show, to me, the main difference in this series is the giant gap in perimeter defense talent, Like, I think we're gonna see Ada McDaniels on Jamal and and on Michael Porter Junior for a good chunk of the series, and I think that is just going to be a substantially larger challenge for those two guys than what the Lakers brought to the table. So what do you see in this series with Denver
on offense? How do you think their approach will be different compared to the Lakers series.
I think the whole thing will be different.
I mean, the Lakers actually dictated Denver's offense in a unique way in the last round, and that they quit double Jokic every time he's in the post, and that's such a compromising defense to play, to say, we're just gonna send two guys at him and then just scramble every possession we're going to be in rotation. I don't think Minnesota will do that. I think they're going to trust that Rudy Gobert has that so we don't need to double. He'sier rim protector. And that'll be an interesting
one because it'll come down a lot too. How well does Jokic score on Karl Anthony Towns with that you know, spy defense from Rudy Gobert. That'll be a big one. I think Jokic will do very well in that, and I actually think Denver, starting last year with the Rudy Ruey adjustment, Denver has seen every team try some form of that ring your rim protector on Aaron Gordon and just bring him over to try to block shots. Denver has a lot of experience and I think they'll be successful.
¶ Recapping Nuggets-Wolves prior matchups
Where I think they'll struggle is with the pick and roll, which is obviously the bread and butter of Denver's offense. Nikil Alexander Walker and Jaden McDaniels, in my opinion, are two of the absolute best in the league at not getting screened on screens. They're so hard to run pick and roll game because they're so skinny. They get so into you and then that screen just becomes non existent. And even if you do screen them, they're both don't quit on the play, try to contest from behind and
can have success with that. Murray historically has been great at punishing guys that are trying to, you know, play from behind, top locker challenge from behind. He's so good at, you know, his glitchy little moves and creating separation there and putting the defense making them guess. But in the first round he didn't do that. And I don't know if he didn't do that because of all the injuries
or what it is. But if Murray is able to play the game that I think that he has played in years past in the playoff, I think he can score on Jaden McDaniels, as good of a defender as he is, And I think Denver can compromise Minnesota's defense in a way less so than most teams, but still in a way that makes them successful. But if he can't, then there's so many downstream effects of that, that pick and roll loses a lot of its bite, and so much of what Denver does is downstream of that initial
pick and roll action. So to me, I think we're gonna know very early in this series how healthy is Murray and how how effective is the Yokich Murray pick and roll when those two guys are guarding.
I think that's part of why winning Game five was so important, to buy that extra couple of days off. That was that was that was I viewed that as such a must win for Denver, and I can't say enough, Jamal got credit for the clutch shots, but I thought he was awesome at the beginning of that game too, to kind of put him away or to kind of keep him close, and like again, like having having that Jayden matchup, you want every bit of physical pop that
¶ How Nuggets will attack Wolves stout defense
Jamal Murray has. Starting with Jokic, I agree with you. I think is gonna have to score a lot in this series. Again, Minnesota in general, as a matter of I identity, doesn't like to double or defend pick and rolls three on two. They try to stay home as much as possible. As matter of fact, they were fourth in opponent assists per one hundred possessions in the regular season in second so far in the postseason. That was a big part. Now, Phoenix, I thought missed a lot
of reads. I think there are opportunities there. Excuse me that Denver will capitalize on to a much higher level than Phoenix did, just because Yokic is so much, so much better at identifying those openings than Katie, Devin Booker and Bradley Beal were. But I do think that's gonna be a big part of it. I went back and I watched every single shot attempt that Jokic took over the course of the regular season against Minnesota, KYLEI Anderson and Nasrid. It's just a layup. They just can't They
literally can't stop Yokic at all. It kind of reminds me of the Ruy Hatcha Mura matchup. It's just like anytime you left him on an island, it was a bucket every time. He's too big for go bear, and he's good at like getting Rudy to jump to a specific angle so that he can pivot around him and get all the way to the rim. Kat's the one guy I've seen that actually can kind of like hold his ground a little bit and make him shoot over
the top. But I didn't think Jokic looked really bothered by Kat either in the in the matchups that I watched, So like, I think that that's gonna be a huge part of this series, is Minnesota trying to tie your Yokic out by making him a score. And I think that's gonna be their kind of like game plan in this sense. On the ball screens. One of the things I thought was interesting with Jada McDaniels on Jamal Murray
a couple things. First of all screening is gonna be huge, Like the quality of screens that they set, not just with Jokic, but when they set like staggered screens where they have. One of the things they had some success, some success with to get McDaniels off of Jamal was like three man actions basically like having a a KCP or Michael Porter Junior set the screen before Jamal runs into Jokic. They can get some success slipping out of
that too with whoever the other guard is. But like one of the things I noticed when Jayden was on Jamal Murray, Murray seemed very cognizant of the back pressure and much more willing to get downhill and take floaters. That was a big one I noticed. And then two, he was much more active as a passer in the
season series because of that Jada McDaniel's matchup. As a matter of fact, he averaged eight assist per game in only thirty one minutes per game against Minnesota, So like I do think that's going to be a big part of it. He also hunted a lot more threes. That was something he looked to do instead of trying to get downhill where that where that back pressure could be
an issue. He would drag out more side to side and look to take more three point shots, and by the way, he shot really well from three in the matchup. I think another part of it, too, is just trying to keep Conley involved in the action as much as possible. He's just their weakest link defensively, and he gives you the best opportunity to try to try to find like those slip cuts and things like that. They did have
some success with that in the regular season. But the biggest one I think that I put in my notes was getting out in transition as much as possible, just like as many times as you can over the course of the game, avoiding that half court set where they can load up and bring that physicality where that can be a problem. But again, I think this is going to be the toughest part of the series for Denver.
When we get over to Minnesota on offense, I think Denver's in for a much easier type of matchup than what they dealt with with the Lakers. I think that really is going to be the series, in my opinion, is can Denver slow down Minnesota more than Minnesota slows down Denver?
And these two things are connected because I love that you brought up. Both of the points you just brought up with Denver, I think are sort of the same point. One the off ball screening to free up Murray from McDaniel's just to create switches. That's big, as is Denver in transition. If you get stops and you get the other way, you can create you know, cross matches, And that's going to be especially important because I think Minnesota is designed to stop Denver when they have their main guys,
and I would throw Nikhil Alexander Walker in there. He's interchangeable in some ways because of what he can do defensively as well. But with their guys and with the right matchups. But if you get a cross match with Rudy Gobergarding Jokich and it's Denver starters out there all of a sudden, now they're out of sorts of thing. Now Karl Anthony Towns is on Aaron Gordon, He's the weak side guy. If McDaniel says' on him and you
get Mike Conley. Now Mike Conley is having to guard Murray through screens and from behind, and Murray is just so comfortable when you put a smaller guy on him. He's one of the best guards in the NBA at
playing big and playing through that. So I think it is transition and how Denver generates generate switches in the half court is going to be a big part of the series because the base defense from Minnesota is as good as the NBA has at guarding Denver, but as soon as you start to mix those pieces around, they lose it.
And they're just good at that. And that's that's why I feel more confident in Denver in this matchup, like in the sense that, like Phoenix, I was so frustrated watching film in that series at their process and how many like simple basic basketball reads they missed to generate closeout opportunities, and I just know Denver is going to
be so much more deliberate about that. And for instance too, like I think one of the things they can look to do is when Kat is on Yokid, which run more screening actions for Jokic to have him catch on the move where Kat's either in a trail position or he's getting caught on a screen where he can come
downhill at go Bear. They had a lot of success with that in the regular season and Honestly, one of the things that kind of think that I think kind of helps prep Jokic for this matchup is the time that Murray missed this season in these matchups where Jokic had to be really active as a scorer, and he got a really good look at that specifically. So moving on to Minnesota on offense, So let's just let's start here.
Do you I think we're gonna see KCP start on Ant, But do you think there are any alternative looks that Denver can go with? Because Anthony Edwards is going to be, to me, the entire, like the entire swing factor of this series because the player he was in the regular season was somewhere in the you know, ten to fifteenth best player in the world, regardless of how you feel about Ant in his future and potential blah blah blah whatever.
He played like a bona fide top tier MVP superstar against Phoenix, and if he brings that into this round, that change fundamentally changes this type of matchup, Right, So, like, let's just start with AUNT. How do you think Denver is going to confront the ANT problem?
Well, I think you're right that they're almost certainly going to try and hope KCP is the answer there, and because there's trickle down effects from that matchup, which allows Aaron Gordon to guard Karl Anthony Towns, which allows Aaron Gordon to probably stagger more and play backup center, which is what Denver wants. If that doesn't work and you're forced to bring Aaron Gordon over to guard Anthony Edwards, there's a bunch of other decisions you have to make
behind that then to make up for the rotation. But there are two guys on Denver's roster that I think become the swing factor in this series, and that's Christian Brown, Payton Watson. They were acquired for matchups like this one,
not necessarily Anthony Edwards specifically, but they were required. Calvin Booth stated philosophy was we already had the offensive part down and probably have it for years to come with Jamal Murray, Niko jokicch and then you know, you can find a Michael Porter, you can find a KCP, you can find Aaron Gordon. They happen to have all three, which is great, but you can find guys that can space the floor in the ways that they do.
Now you just need.
Length and defense, because you need in a playoff series to be able to give a guy multiple looks. We just said Nikil Alexander Walker, he can give Jaden McDaniels a break every now and then, so that you have a well energized defender on Murray for forty eight minutes to the game. The same has to be true for Anthony Edwards and that means that Christian Brown and Peyton Watson are going to have to be effective. And if you told me right now, I think both of them
are capable of being effective against him. I know Minnesota fans will laugh at that. These guys are really good young defenders, but it's also possible that they are not effective on him because Anthony Edwards is, to your point, at MVP level player, at least he was in the first round. So I don't think those guys can stop him. But can they play eight minutes a game collectively on him so that KCP is you know, is able to
play a little bit more aggressively. CASEP is so good with his hands, like Anthony Edwards is going to be able to body him and bully him on straight line drives, close outs and those types of things. But CACP is so good at forcing you to take bad angles, and the moment you try, Anthony Edwards has a new move. I'm sure you've observed it where he uses the extra step so you have a pivot foot and he'll pivot and then leave his pivot foot and jump and finish.
And Jalen Brunson does this, Shay Gil just Alexander does this. That's a heck of a move for a guy that has his physical tools. But the one thing about that move is you're off balance when you go to that extra step, just for a second before you can elevate, like you think about a player, they have to almost dip into it. CACP might be the best in the NBA at stealing the ball when players do that. Anytime you try to take that extra step. His hands are so quick. So I think it'll be a good matchup.
But Christian Brown, to answer your question, Christian Brown, Payton Watson our X factors because if they are a zero impact on him, Denver's in a world of trouble. If they can make a mild to medium impact on him, I think Denver's odds go up quite a bit.
That long step you're talking about I'm pretty sure he learned that from Kylie Anderson. I think that might be the guy. I think you might have spent some time in the lab together figuring that out. And like, I love the point you made about the straight line drives
and close outs. Like when I watched tape on this matchup, I hate KCP on ant and any sort of one on one situation, but I love it in ball screens where it's like more about screen navigation, back pressure, attacking the shooting pocket, things along those lines, and you know the alternative look I looked at. There was a post up we saw a KCP do a pretty solid job on Lebron James, at least until Lebron started trying to
go to the post consistently. But like Kat is just not the type of post threat that Lebron James is.
He's just not. And there was a play that I saw on tape where Kat tried to post up KCP and he cleanly stripped him on that kind of like he's just really good at like as soon as anybody goes to their drop step to get to their right shoulder or left shoulder, right handed hook, he just attacks the shooting pocket and just knocks the ball loose, and so I actually think they might be able to in certain situations go to Gordon on ant as like just
kind of like a different look. And I pulled some possessions for my film session those of you guys who are listening, probably tomorrow morning, I'm gonna record just a basic kind of film session on the series. You guys can see some visual examples. But I think Gordon can kind of cause some problems for Aunt is just like a different type of look, and I think ACP can hold up on Kat. I'd be more worried about rebounding in that situation than I would about like having to like deal with scoring.
Well, what about the rotation behind it?
Because while I agree with you, Denver counts on Aaron
¶ Can Anthony Edwards be stopped?
Gordon to be the backup center, and in this matchup, they're gonna play nas Red with the bench and they'll probably play Gobert and or Karl Anthony Towns behind it. Denver doesn't have another option there. It's DeAndre Jordan, it's Zeke Naji. I think both of those are very bad options.
So if you do use Aaron Gordon on Anthony Edwards your stagger minute, now you have to find a backup center, and you might also have to find other minutes when Aaron Gordon eventually needs a rest to guard Karl Anthony Towns with the starting lineup. So that's why I don't know if that's.
An answer at I don't look at it as an answer so to speak, in terms of like a long term Look, I'm talking more about like a big moment if you know key possessions late you want to prevent a one on one matchup where and can just go straight to work like that sort of thing. I agree with you, like even above and beyond the part with
the rotation. Also the back line, like a huge part to me of why the lebron Ad pick and roll caused Denver problems is when Yokic comes up to the level of the screen and Gordon's pressuring the ball, your two biggest players are twenty five feet from the basket or twenty to twenty five feet from the basket, and so when they get the ball past Jokic to the pocket, it was smaller players on the back line that was what was so genius about the adjustment of putting Gordon
on Ad. Is Ad can't shoot, so Gordon was constantly on the back line waiting there, and a big part of the early part of that run when they were down twenty in Game two was Gordon bothering Lebron at the rim as a helper. And so I actually I agree with you. I'm more concerned about it on the back line, which is why I wouldn't do it in a large sample. I'm just talking about like any sort of singular possession where you need to stop. Don't hate
the idea of having of Gordon spent some time on Cat. Now. I think obviously we're gonna probably see Gordon on Ant. Excuse me, we're gonna see Gordon on Kat to start Jokicon Gobert, Michael Porter Junior on Jaden. One of the things I think is gonna be interesting is the pick
and roll coverages. So, for instance, one of the things that Vogel did in the regular season that worked really well on Minnesota but didn't work in the playoffs was he ran like aggressive high drops and hedges with with with tagging the roller against Ant to kind of like play him into his worst ability, which is playmaking. And then he would play passive like deep drop against Conley to bait him into his biggest weakness, which is passivity
and his unwillingness to shoot. I actually would do that again. I they handled it well against Phoenix. Ant had a good play making series average like six assists per game and some big moments, handled the high drop and hedge really well. And Conley just happen to have a really good scoring series where he did some damage to the low drop and actually forced Vogel to adjust out of it into the high drop. Do you agree with that
approach though? Is that how you would start? Would how would you guard and pick and roll against Anton Conley individually?
I think that the roller has a lot to do with this as well, like who it is that you're rolling to the rim. Denver has played Gobert so many times over the course of this era, and they played him in a playoffs. And one of the things that I think Denver is good at is if you know if you are going to trap the ball, if you're gonna hard hedge, or if you're gonna actually fully trap. Denver usually just hard hedges, But if you're gonna hard hedge, you want him to catch the ball outside the paint,
because he's not the best decision maker there. You compromise yourself up top, but now make him put the ball on the floor and make the extra read. I don't know that you necessarily want to give. You're suggesting that Denver with con I understand it, because you're right, is see how many floaters does he want to take? He's capable of making a lot of them, but how many
does he want to take? It doesn't feel natural when that's the when, When that's what's happening with Anthony Edwards, I'm very curious because you're right that my inclination would be force him into play making, force him into decision read difficult reads is pick and roll one pass away difficult read though that to me feels pretty easy to make. Those are not the type of ones I think you're gonna say, we're going to force him to kick out to the open wing shooter. I think he is beyond that.
But there are some secondary things, some secondary reads that I think that's going to try to force him into that might confuse him a little bit. By the way, this is one difference from the Phoenix series, and this one is that Nurkic and Jokic. Jokic is a significantly smarter pick and roll player, just in terms of making you make the hard read. He's not great at stopping the lab or any of that stuff, but he is good at making you hesitate a half second too long
before realizing what your read should have been. That in between game and stunts and things. So Anthony Edwards is an improved playmaker. But I think yok which is good at making guys second guests themselves, and that'll be an interesting cat and mouse game in the Phoenix.
Was super aggressive at the nail as well, like, and that did make a lot of really easy reads where like Ant would come off and Nurkic would be in the high drop. But then also Devin Booker would just be ignoring his man like sitting in the driving lane. So that you're right, there were like these really easy
swing pass reads. I think, I think what the way that it should look in my opinion is essentially just making sure you tag from the weak side corner and don't overhelp one pass away at least make Ant make skip passes, if that makes sense. Now, the one now, the one thing that opens up, And I pulled an example of this that we'll see on film later on Friday but when you don't dig down at the into those driving lanes one pass away, it puts a lot of pressure on Jokic to catch Ant as he comes off.
And there have been examples where Ant has been able to beat Yolkic at the at the level of the screen and then when he gets past him, there's not a whole lot on the back line, So like, yeah, so it could be a little bit tougher, but like that's the other thing too, is like you can always all you can always like go away from that if Ants causing problems where he is picking you apart or
driving by Jokic. We saw Milwaukee have a really good game against Minnesota earlier this year where they went deep drop on both guys and basically said beat us with pull jumpers and floaters all night long. We're gonna just shut off the rim from you. And so I think I think that's another look that they can go to
as well. And I think that's gonna be a read and react thing, And really it's gonna come down to, in my opinion, Ant's pull up jumper, because if he's hitting the pull up jumper like he did against Phoenix, I don't think you can run the deep drop necessarily, but if he's if he can kind of regress back to the regular season efficiency he was having there, I think you might be able to get away with that.
Jamal Murray on Mike Conley, do you do you think he's going to spend the majority of the time there?
I think so, because I think it makes the most sense for him to. It's not that that's an easy one. I think physically it might be easy, but even though it's a mental task trying to contain him, but at least physically it's not following antalogue around and even Jaden McDaniels, who it can be a good slasher try to grab
¶ How Denver should approach Minnesota pick and roll
some boards. That's a separate challenge. I think with Mike Conley, it's more of a mental challenge, and I think that's what Murray needs right now.
And then the other piece of it, too is when they go to ball screens that don't involve Gobert. Like you mentioned, I agree, like you want to make Gobert catch on the role and make him be a decision maker. He's got kind of like stony hands, doesn't make quick decisions as a tendency to misshots around the rim. However,
This is where Aaron Gordon is a huge advantage. I actually think they can switch a lot of the cat and nose red ball screens to avoid some of the issues that you can run into with pick and pop. As long as it's as long as it's as long as it's Gordon or Watson. And by the way, I didn't get to this earlier, but I loved the point
you made about Christian Brown and Peyton Watson. And you know, one of the things that's been really staying out to me in this postseason so far is just how important athletic superiority is when it's this physical and it's this intense. And just like I thought that was what was fascinating about Bruce Brown as well. It was just like he was just one of the best. He was a wrecking ball athlete and he was able to make a lot of plays there. But when Peyton Watson.
And by the way, Grayce and Allen going down last round, I look Sons were gonna lose that series one way or another. But that was part of why he was so valuable, is both lengthy and athleticism was needed there. And you take him out and all of a sudden, you lose that you replace it with a Kogie who's smaller athletic, but he's smaller and a team that was already cooked.
Yeah, exactly, and well, and the problem with specifically Grayson is like he's one of the most important pieces for Phoenix in terms of like getting the ball, popping around and getting three and getting three point shots, and then like without Grayson, they just don't get generated enough to reason it's a whole bunch of issues, but Phoenix, Phoenix is a whole other different set of problems that we have to get into. So the other thing I put
in here is playing off their defense. So like again, Minnesota, they forced Denver into sixteen turnovers per game during the regular season, and they dominated points off of turnovers seventy five to fifty. And so I think just in general looking at both teams, for Minnesota, obviously they can have half court offense issues and so getting out in transition
is going to be a big weapon for them. But also for Denver, they just have to take care of the basketball because that was a consistent issue during the regular season. That's something that they have to avoid. Is there anything else that you have in terms of like X's and those that you wanted to get into from the series.
The offensive rebounding to transition defense is always an interesting question, and your point about Denver turning the ball over and getting offensive rebounds, they need to not turn it over and put pressure on second chance points because to your point, if this is a pure half court, I mean, we've seen games in the NBA this year eight combined fast break points, like neither team got it. If that happens
in this series, Bender's winning. I think Minnesota has to generate turnover and they also have to get stops and turn those into transition. Well, two ways you can take care of that is don't turn the ball over and hit the offensive glass so that they are extra scared to get out in transition. They're more concerned with cleaning up the glass. Denver has not been a great offensive
rebounding team. I do think there is scenarios where, again, especially in transition, when you get cross matches, can you bring go Bear outside the three point line because he wants to be on Aaron Gordon's roaming the pain and now he gets to do that, But you get a cross match and all of a sudden he's out on
the perimeter. Aaron Gordon can eat in those moments, Michael Porter can eat in those moments, and Denver's gonna have to capitalize not just on those cross matches, but also on the offensive glass behind those.
Agree getting cross matches by pushing in transition is like usually the easiest way to generate an advantage because you don't have to worry about running a screening action early in the shot clock to try to set up an action that has to take place later in the shot clock. I totally agree with you. So let's get to predictions, and I want you to get into it a little bit. How you actually expect the series to flow, but who
you pick in how many games? How do you kind of project the series will flow.
I kind of think that this series is gonna look like the previous one, different strategy, all the different things we just talked about. But I think there was a sense of, well, Denver didn't look that good in the last round and they got through it. I think this is gonna be another round where you get into game five and you're thinking, you know, Denver hasn't looked very good in this series, yet Minnesota hasn't necessarily looked very good in the series because I think both of these
teams are gonna make life hard for the other. One prediction I have is I think both teams are gonna lose a home game in the first four games. I think Denver's gonna split and I think Minnesota's gonna split. But at the end of the day, a lot of this comes down to Jamal Murray's health. I think Denver is the better team. I think Minnesota's on the come up. They remind me a lot of Denver in twenty twenty in the bubble, where they were just on the edge
of being ready but not quite. There's still some flaws and there were still some lessons that they had to learn, but they were capable of upsetting teams that were perceived
¶ Biggest matchups for Denver defense
to be better than them. I think Minnesota is much the same. They have an incredible connection and incredible belief, and then their bread and butter is of course their defense with a superstar and Anthony Edwards, that's a great recipe. But Denver's recipe has tried, is tested and proven, and I think that this is a seven game series that Denver wins. It becomes a three game series after the two splits and I think the home teams win games five six.
You just reminded me of something interesting from the bubble. Do you remember the Donovan Mitchell Jamal Murray, you know showdown in that in that first round series? Do you remember that?
I will never forget that.
Do you remember like the way that was discussed after the fact and it was like, oh, fake shooting in the bubble this is and I'm like, like, I talk about vindication Jamal Murray, Jim. You know, I was actually talking about this with a buddy of mine at the gym today because I, uh, so my my game, I'm like a score and I rely a lot on tough shot making myself, and so Jamal Murray's like my hero.
I love everything about that guy, like his combination of footwork and the ability to get to like different types of pull up jump shots from so many different dribble combinations and footwork. I just I don't think people realize how hard he's had to work to get to that point, even like that shot that he hit over Austin Reeves, Like the one over Ad was tougher because he had to get more separation, but it's a more basic it's a more basic footwork, just a basic step back for
right handed shooter going to the right. But that one that he hit over Austin, the funky like start stop, like backwards lean that he got to like just I just love Jamal Murray's skill set. I think it's super fascinating. And honestly, you just reminded me because that twenty twenty run, I remember everyone was getting undercut. Everyone was like, Jamal Murray's fake shooting. You know this guy's face, Everyone's faked, and I just feel I feel like Jamal has been vindicated.
But so the one thing real quickly about that series, though, is I actually think Anthony Edwards at this stage of SCRID.
I love Anthony Edwards.
He more mirrors Donovan Mitchell than he does Jamal Murray in this one way. Murray took and made tough shots, but I think had a very good sense of what a good and bad shot was and when a bad shot.
Was needed from the team.
I think Donovan Mitchell doesn't quite understand even now. I don't think Donovan Mitchell always understands when it's time for the tough shot, Donovan, and when it's time for not that try to find something else and I think Anthony Edwards, I love him, and I don't think this has anything to do with selfishness, But I think he is still learning that lesson because there are still shots he takes, including in key moments where you go not that one there,
like this is two minutes to go, it's a tie game. You've got to find the better thing. You had ten more seconds on the clock to get to that shot.
¶ Adam's keys for Nuggets
And I think that's one difference between them. But obviously Anthony Edwards, I think a different caliber of player at least has been over the last regular season.
In postseason, no, I totally agree.
Like I think I think Donovan Mitchell's biggest weakness is game management, meaning like just kind of understanding and feeling the flow of a game. It was actually a big part of why I picked the Knicks over the Cavs last year. I was just like Jalen Brunson's a better game manager. He's just going to have a better feel for when to be aggressive, when to be passive, so
on and so forth. So what I find what I find specifically fascinating about Aunt is like I saw the same thing in my film sessions today, Like he shot really well in the one clutch game they had, which was Game four clutch bass. Yeah, clutch basketball was a huge problem for the Timberwolves in the regular season, like just an absolute catastrophic problem. They were awful on both
ends of the floor. Like I want to say, their offensive rating was like one oh four in the regular in their in their defensive rating was like one eighteen or one nineteen or something like that. But in the last game, the game in early April, the one that was like for the one seed, which, by the way, like home court advantage is a huge part of the series, which I'll get to in a second, But the Aunt had checked back into the game in the middle of
fourth quarter. Denver was on their run and they went up like seven or something, and it came off of a ball screen and Jamal Murray switched out high on him and it was like twelve on the shot clock, and he just took like a really bad pull up three. And I remember just being like, why, it's kind of
¶ Timberwolves-Nuggets Predictions
funny because, like, to me, the guy that Ant Aunt reminds me a lot of in terms of like approach is actually like Jason Tatum. But the difference between the two is Ant's just way more of an alpha dog personality and Tatum And the reason why I compare the two of them is both of them for being guys that are big, strong athletes, take way too many pull up jumpers like Jamal Murray. Jamal Murray does it because he's Jamal Murray and he's not exceptionally you know, athletic
for his position. But like literally Tatum and Ant, they settle for so many pull up jumpers. But the biggest difference between the two is Ant's got that alpha dog mentality. And then two, for whatever reason, Ant gets into the postseason and those pull up jumpers just go in. They just do for whatever, for whatever reason they do when he gets to the postseason. For the record, he shot pretty well against Denver last year on his on his pull up jumper. But like, yeah, I agree with you.
Decision making is going to be a huge piece for Ant in this series, and that's the biggest swing factor if he if he If Ant goes back to regular season, and I think the series is over five, Like I think this is gonna be I think they're gonna get him out of here quickly. Any any hope at a long series I think kind of hinges on ant maintaining his current level now as far as the low of the series, this is why I thought home court advantage was so important. I do. I do believe in like
adjusting to a different matchup. I think Denver does this to teams where you go playing like a specific type of basketball and then you run into Denver and you're like, wow, this is very different, you know what I mean. And then in the Golden State Warriors, you play a bunch of teams and then all of a sudden you're playing that Golden State blender and you just get caught off guard.
And I think I think Minnesota has a little bit of that on the defensive end of the floor, where there's like a little bit of an adjustment period, And had Minnesota got home court advantage, I think there was actually there would have actually been a decent chance for them to try to jump Denver early in the series
while they're adjusting. But having those first two games in Denver I think is key because if they do happen to go to oh I think the series is over and I think that they have a better opportunity to do that at home or they have famously the best home court advantage in in NBA history with the elevation, right, I think that's a big piece of this. I'm gonna still I'm gonna go in six just because I think
a Minnesota's defense will keep every game close. But I don't think Minnesota has that much of a chance to win this series simply because their biggest weakness is Denver's biggest strength. Their biggest weakness is execution in the half court. Their biggest strength for Denver is execution in the half court. I do think Minnesota's defense will keep games close, but kind of like what happened in that late April game, I just think Denver is going to out execute them
late the picking them in six. By the way, I don't really like picking in the number of games. I think it's so pointless because it's like every series has like a weird game. It's like the Nick Sixers series has had two of them. Denver La clutch shooting, like a one clutch shot or one bad call could swing a game in a playoff series. So it's more just how much of a chance does a team have to win? And I'm more I'm more, I more or less give
Minnesota the same chance that the Lakers had. I just think I think that their I think that their weakness is going to be a significant problem in this series. We didn't see it against Phoenix. Most of those games weren't close in by game four, there is no pressure because you're up three to zero. So if you lose that series, who cares? And so, like, I think Denver's gonna to grind these games down into the mud at the end, and I think it's going to shine a
light on some of the offensive limitations for Minnesota. And so I think Denver is going to win how many games? Who cares? But like, I don't really see Minnesota as having that much of a chance. Before we get out of here, go Aheadal quickly.
You mentioned I just I wanted to give one note here because I think it's interesting. But I believe in hyper focus. I think there are people that are hyper focuses or focusers, and I think Anthony Edwards, Nikolai jokicch and Jamal Murray are all this. And what I mean by that is you think about rock climbers who you know, on the edge of a cliff with lead life and death situation somehow gets them to be the best version of themselves and they are almost addicted to that feeling.
When we talk, we always talk about clutches. Do these guys make shots? With Murray and Jokic, they make shots, but they also make reads, which just the mistakes go away in the clutch for those two guys, and I think it's just because whatever it is, the pressure brings their focus up a level.
I think Anthony Edwards is the exact same.
So when you talk about in the regular season clutch numbers this or that, I think the Timberwolves are a little bit better or will be a little bit better in the postseason as a clutch team, just on the fact that I think Anthony Edwards just shoots five percent better and makes five percent better reads in those moments because he seems to me to be a hyper focuser.
That's super interesting. And again that kind of brings you back to what we talked about earlier as it pertains to which version of ANT are we getting, because like you know, the ANT, I don't think people realize what we saw from Ant in the last round, like he he didn't just beat Phoenix, he snatched their soul. Like it was like the most mental and physical dominant series
¶ Anthony Edwards' emergence
I've seen from a young player in a very long time, and I don't know about you. I've always believed in Aunt ceiling. I just didn't think it would happen this soon. I thought I thought we were two three years away from him being able to do this sort of thing. And like, so, I actually I have two. I have two, Like, first, takey basketball topics for you before we get out of here.
So the first one, I got a mail bag question last night, and in a very reactionary way, I said aunt immediately, But after thinking about it more, I still think I might lean ant. But I'm curious to hear your perspective. Who would you have on your basketball team for playoff series starting tomorrow? Anthony Edwards or Jason Tatum.
Oh, Anthony Edwards for me, this one is actually not so it was for me too, and I'm for and look, I probably am a little too low on Tatum. But you said something, and guys use the language alpha this or that, I almost feel like it's something misleading as well. I almost like hyper focusing. Anthony Edwards one is a
super competitor, that's clear. I think he has charisma, which is weirdly important in basketball because everybody's looking at you when you're the guy, and some guys have the charisma to be like, guys, I got it, don't worry, I got it. And I think Aunt is that guy, and I think Tatum's not. Tatum's a great player, but I don't know he's a guy that in the last thirty second you look at Murray got the ball with sixteen seconds left in Game five of that series. Nineteen thousand
people in the arena, everybody knew he was. If he gets a clean look, it's going in, no question about it. And I think that Tatum, for as great as he is and is just a clearly to me in a different caliber in that one quality, and that's such an important quality when you're the leader of.
About II one hundred percent agree. And I said the same thing last night, like I just think he's so much more of a dominant personality, but even just on a basketball level, like part of the reason why Tatum I think struggles in late game situations to try to
generate shots. I don't think Tatum is big and strong, and he's very athletic, but he doesn't have a great first step, and so he actually he's actually not particularly great at getting to his spots and Anthony Edwards, Anthony Edwards, I think is one of those supreme, transcendently great generational athletes that can consistently get to stops and one of the get to spots and the things that I thought actually manifests in the in the numbers on this on
this front of things is so far in Anthony Edwards's career, every single playoff run he's been over sixty percent true shooting, and this year he's at sixty five percent true shooting. Tatum has never had a playoff run over sixty percent true shooting. Now, obviously totally different sample sizes, and Tatum has made it to later rounds where the pressure in
the quality of competition goes up. So I'm not trying to call that apples to apples, but I do think Ant's efficiency in the postseason is a really strong indicator of his athleticism being kind of like a differentiator at this level. I think he's got I think he's got defenders so much on their heels worried about the drive that he can just get great separation on these on these pulp jumpers. All right, Second one, because I'm gonna eventually get in trouble for that last one. As soon
as Celtics fans get ahold of it, we'll see. Secondly, I've been getting reamed on Twitter all day today because I said I think Jokic has the highest floor that I've ever seen in a basketball player. And basically my
¶ Timberwolves-Nuggets Predictions
reasoning was simple, Like Lebron, I think is a very high floor player too, And to me, high floor is like, on a night in, night out, basis, how reliably great is this person? Forget about like variants, just on a night in, night out, basis, what are the dependable things
that this player brings to the table. And like counter examples are guys like PG and James Harden where it's like, for whatever reason, in really big games, when the intensity and physicality go up a level, it's almost like the opposite. It's almost like they can't impact winning the way that they typically do. And for me, the differentiator for Jokich is he's so big that, like, even when he's not as engaged defensively as he needs to be, he's just
dominant on the defensive glass. And we literally saw for the Suns and Lakers how not being able to close out defensive possessions with the rebound can cost you a series. Gordon over to Lebron literally was a huge part of them winning that game five. The Timberwolves grabbed forty percent of their own misses against the Sun, So we know
that defensive rebounding brings value. And then on the other end of the floor, I just think Jokic can generate quality shots on a possession by possession basis, regardless of whether or not he's personally hitting. That I think makes his floor extremely high. And so do you agree with me? And who would you if you had to come up with a guy who would compete with him for that spot? Who would it be?
Such a good question.
And here's how I look at it with Lebron because everybody, you know, the thing with Lebron and the game is evolved. But the thing with Lebron was he makes his teammates better. I think that is only mostly true, not fully true. There were players that he did not make better, that didn't fit the Lebron system. You know, Okay, Kevin Love maybe had to sacrifice more than he received from Lebron and Bosh and some of these other guys spot up shooters,
roleplay guys, that had a more limited role. I think Jokic is a multiplier, a rare example of a multiplier. What I mean by that is one of his best felt. He's a great individual player, scorer, all those different things. He's great at it. But one of the things about yoke is that whatever your skill set is, and it doesn't matter, he's played with a wide variety of players. Whatever it is, he has a skill that fits that in a way that not even Lebron necessarily had that.
Lebron had his style and you fit to it, He's gonna make you better. But with Jokic, it's oh you, Reggie Jackson, you run this style of offense, KCP, you do this, Aaron Gordon, you do this. Whatever it is. He molds his game to it, and I think the same is true. Then when you talk about what defense do you throw at him, whatever defense you throw, he has something in his tool bag to mold around that and to form himself around that in a way that's
even different than Lebron. Lebron more dominant, more overwhelming, more
¶ What separates Ant, Jokic & Murray
of a sledgehammer and the things he was capable of doing. But Jokic is like a multi multi tool. There's a tool in his bag for every situation. And to me, I like the way you framed it. I think knowing who the greatest player of all time is or ranking players, to me, it's so fun to do. It's a fund mental exercise. But at the end of the day, it's impossible. It's not logical to get that. But when you talk about floors, there is more logic to it, because I do.
I think that Jokic fits with every two man game you could possibly throw at him. Throw a player out there, Aleen Brunson, Luka, Doncic, Damian Lillard. Jokic has something in his game that would fit perfectly with those guys, and that's why I would agree with you about him being this floor y.
Yeah. And you know, one of the things that Lebron fans were saying on Twitter today is like, oh, well, his athleticism gives him an extremely high floor. And I do agree within the context of the post. I do agree within the context of the postseason. But like trust me, as a Lebron fan, I watched just about every game he played over the course of his career, and basically from about twenty fifteen, which by the way, he was thirty It's not like we're talking about his tail end
of his prime. From about twenty fifteen to this day, Lebron was an inconsistent effort guy in the regular season And it doesn't matter how athletic he is if he's not got it, if he doesn't have his foot down to the medal, you know, a pedal to the metal,
so to speak. Right, So, like, one of the things that's interesting to me about jokicch is like it doesn't matter how much he's engaging himself physically, Like as soon as you get in the half court, he's just giant that and that makes it so that even when he's not necessarily sprinting and moving as much as he normally does,
¶ Anthony Edwards or Jayson Tatum?
there's a certain like physical imposition he has over the eighty two that Lebron didn't have in terms of his night and night out impact and so like again, like in terms of day one of the regular season to Game seven of the NBA Finals and everything in between, and who had the most consistent high floor of any individual player that I've seen. I I lean towards Jokich. I I just I think and size.
And size matters because I think about Draymond Green the greatest small ball center in the history of basketball, most likely rendered useless against Jokic defensively. I mean, by his own admission, you know, has nothing for him, And so Lebron's athleticism I think is canceled in many ways by Jokic's size, at least on the offensive end, because Jokica size, you need somebody at least six to eleven. Even throwing a guy six ' ten at him, like a shng
goon or something. Even throwing a guy that's just a little bit below true center size, it's just it's hopeless. And the same way that if you threw an unathletic guy on Lebron.
And again, the defensive rebounding piece, Like I like so many of the Lebron fans were like, he's not nearly as good defensively, and it's like, yeah, I agree, And Lebron's prime obviously was a much better defensive player. But like, there is a floor that comes from the ability to close out every single defensive possession with the defensive rebound. Like again, as until you've rooted for a team that can't close out possessions, you don't really realize how valuable
that is. But it is so immensely valuable and the dead giveaway and the last thing I'll say about it. After Game five, Lakers were doing a lot of damage and pick and roll ad was doing like over the course of the series, Like the Lakers had some success attacking Jokic, but Mike Michael Malone gave Jokic the defensive player of the game necklace or you know, chain thing, and he immediately said, eighteen defensive rebounds. You get the thing. And I was like, he gets it, Like he just
gets it. He understands, he understands it like this because like I can just yeah, I can't tell you how many times in that series I'd watch a shot go up and I'd watch ad or Ruey crash and they just couldn't get it. They just couldn't get it, Like it just you weren't getting it, Like it was like and I watched those same guys do that Damna rushes yet and like it almost they almost look like they're completely overmatched when they're trying to go over the top of him to get the rebound.
But Adam going and by the way, defense and offense are combined, so the scariest guy Lebron's the greatest transition player probably ever. Yokes right there, he grabs the rebound, and the gap between defense and offense blurs, because all of a sudden, now it's like, oh crap that not only are we have to get back on defense, but here comes the seven foot point guard full speed ahead. And conditioning, by the way, also a part of athleticism.
Athleticism everybody knows this, but this is another one where
¶ Does Jokic have highest floor in NBA history?
we overlook it. Jokic wears Anthony Davis down, he wears DeAndre Ayton, that he wears every center down because of his athleticism, which is in his case is endurance.
And one percent agree that. I can't tell you how many times I did like a tweet with some film clips where I'm like, here's Jokich beating ad down the floor again, Like here's all these different things, you know. I remember a game a couple of years ago where Denver won in Philly. It was one of the first like kind of Embid versus Jokich showdowns, and I remember like like everyone was looking at the stat sheet and embiid had these massive numbers, but then Jokic literally won
the game. This was the game I don't know if you remember this was the game where Bones Highland got hot from three? Do you remember this one? Yeah? Okay, so and he had like two or three like thirty footers in the second half if I remember correctly, But like, uh uh, But Jokic was dominating that game because he understood that Philly was a bad transition defense, and it was just cleaning up the defensive glass and throwing kick ahead passes and just literally those two things generated enough
offense for Denver to get a win. But Adam, this was fun. We could have talked all day, of course, but I sincerely appreciate you taking the time. Why don't you tell everybody what you're working on these days?
Well, I appreciate you having me on Love the channel, Love what you're doing. I'm on all NBA podcasts four times a week with Tim Legler on YouTube and the DNBR Nuggets. If you want more Nuggets fun postgame analysis, we go live on DNBR Nuggets on YouTube right after that.
Guys, make sure you get over there and support those channels. As always, we sincerely appreciate you for supporting us. This is going to be a really fun series and looking forward to it. Everybody, have a good night. We will see you tomorrow morning.
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