Hoops Tonight - LIVE: Thunder Take 3-2 Lead on Nuggets + Pacers Eliminate Cavs

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Cleveland Cavaliers earlier today. We're gonna be breaking down both of those games from the perspective of both teams, and then we'll take about ten to fifteen minutes of questions

at the tail end of the show. When we are done here tonight, we'll be heading over to playback again that's playback dot tv slash Hoops Tonight, or we'll be taking questions, taking callers, hanging out watching some film, just having some fun talking hoops for an extra forty five minutes to an hour or so after we finish here live on YouTube, you guys know the Joe before we get started, to subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels.

You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore jsonlt so you guys don't misshow announcements. Some forget about a podcast feed wherever you get your podcast and our Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if we leave a rating inter review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,

Make sure you guys follow us there. In the last but not least, keep dropping mail back questions in the chat so we can get to them in our questions at the tail end of the show. All right, let's talk some basketball. So you know, there's been a pretty consistent theme over the last couple of games. The thunder Stars have actually struggled to create quality shots for the most part over the course of the last two games, but in both games they've been able to make plays late.

Those of you guys who hung out with us on playback on Sunday night or Sunday afternoon, we went over some of that footage and you'll see that a couple of big driving buckets from Shay and from JDub, a big right shoulder fade from Shay out of that five second call they forced on the baseline. And so even though those guys struggled in large part, they were able to make big plays late to put the game away. Similarly, tonight, same sort of thing. JDub and Shay both struggling throughout

the game. JDub hits a huge three on a kickout off of a double team kind of like swing swing sequence where he gets a wide open three on the left wing. He had just airmailed one from the right wing a few possessions earlier, and just confidently steps in and knocks down the big one late Shay, that huge driving spin move bucket, the and one on Jamal Murray around the left elbow, the step back three over Christian Brown, and the left wing, the driving lob Isaiah Hartenstein. The

plays were made late to put the game away. But the question is, how is it that they were in a position with their stars not playing very well to win a game like that down the stretch against a Denver Nuggets offense that is one of the greatest offenses that we've seen in recent NBA history. I was going

over with Jackson the numbers from the series. The Nuggets only get one hundred and five points tonight, despite the fact that Jokic goes for forty four, that they get sixty two out of Jokich and Murray in the game. The Nuggets only got eighty seven in Game four. They only got one hundred and four in Game three. They only got one hundred and six in Game two. Since that Game one explosion where they went for one hundred and twenty one points, they haven't been able to have

any sort of sustained offensive success. And that's because the real star of the Oklahoma City Thunder is their defense. Their defense keeps them in these games long enough for their younger stars to work through their lumps and to find the ability to make a few plays late. It

buys them all of this margin for air. And even though they lost control of Yokic tonight, they've had a great deal of success with him in this series by overplaying his right hand with Isaiah Hartenstein, which is forcing Jokic into some really difficult finishing positions where he's missing shots that he usually makes. You know, they're posting chet on the backside to help. Anytime Jokic goes towards the rim,

they're doubling him on the baseline side. Every single time he tries to post up, He's They've had extended success against Denver's defense against Denver's offense, and in tonight's game, even though Jokic had it going, they got control of Jamal Murray late and no one else on the roster was able to do any sort of substantial damage to

them in this game. Their defense, through the incessant pressure and wearing you down and getting you to miss shots like Michael Porter Junior is oh for fourteen from three in the last three games. You want to know why he's oh for fourteen from three in the last three games. It's because his legs are cooked. His legs are cooked from contending with this team. Yes, the shoulder injury plays a role, but his right hand he can follow through and shoot this shot. He can't even get it over

the front of the rim. As his last two threes were pitifully short. Most of them have been pitifully short. They're wearing them down. Jamal Murray misses another wide open three out of the right corner late in the game. There is a cumulative physical wear and tear factor, and they've been able to walk Denver down. At the tail end of these games. Denver was up to to one in the series, led by eight in the fourth quarter of Game four, led by nine in the fourth quarter

of Game five. In Oklahoma City is up three to two in this series, and it's because their defense has managed to keep things close and because their stars have been able to make plays late in the game, even though they've struggled in the meat and potatoes of the game. Obviously, a huge part in this was lou Dart lou Dort, excuse me, kind of getting out of his shooting slump

in a big way in that fourth quarter. Nicole Jokic has basically been conceding shots to him whenever he can, and to Dort's credit, he just kept taking them to the point where I'm sure there were some Oklahoma City fans while he was taking them that weren't necessarily thrilled with the shots, but they went in. He had his moment, ran back to the to the bench screaming that I'm back, and he is because he needed every They needed every

single one of those buckets. That's what he raced that lead that forced it into a crunch time shot making contest, and Jokic was there. Jokicic went blow for blow with them, hit one of those absurd, somber shuffle shots at the

top of the key. That was one of the crazier shots I've seen Yokic hit in his career, especially when you factor in time in place I've seen him or time in score, I should say I've seen him hit that shot before, but like usually, like just at the end of the quarter, at the end of the shot clock. For him to tie the game with less than two minutes left with one of those against a great contest

at the top of the key. You overcame a incredible Yokic performance that was every bit as good as the one that we saw in Game one of this series. And now the thunder up three too, And you know what happens next is gonna be interesting. Because I talked after Game four, like I thought Denver blew their chance

to win the series. Their offense was in such a they were so down in the mud that I didn't see anything that they had going for them that would manifest in the ability to win on the road in Oklahoma City, which would make it very difficult for them to win this series. Right, Well, there's some encouraging stuff out of that. So in a weird way, I came out of Game four thinking this series is over, Oklahoma City's gonna get it. Now, I still feel like Denver's

got a legitimate chance. Jokic has regained his mojo after three straight awful games by his standards, and has gotten back to having the touch on the three point shot, having the touch on the short range shot, making having the kind of just like aura and presence that he brings down the stretch of these games. That is back. Jamal Murray had his highest volume scoring game of the series,

although not necessarily the most efficient one. He took twenty seven shots tonight, but Jamal Murray started to get some things going. There are some things that Denver has going in terms of their two man game now that gives them a puncher's chance. I think they have a legitimate chance to go home and win Game six. And then after what we've seen tonight, we would all be foolish to count out NICOLEA Jokicic in a Game seven on the road in Oklahoma City. That said, I picked Oklahoma

City in seven before the series. This series is kind of manifested with some of those things in terms of the way Denver has been able to bog down Oklahoma City's defense or offense excuse me, and Jokich has been able to make plays late in games to steal games. But I still think Oklahoma City is gonna end up closing this thing out in seven is my best guess at this point in time.

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I was complaining to Jackson because I hate playoff series where the teams just trade off blowouts. It's like somebody just take a stand and try to win a game after taking a little bit of a run early. And that was what the Pacers did, because if you guys remember in Game four, the Pacers slammed the door shut with a seventeen to oher run right before the half that put the game completely out of reach, and all of a sudden, the Calves were in no position to

even amount even the asseemblance of a comeback. I mean, they outscored the Pacers by twenty one in the second half and still lost by twenty right, but the Calves were unable to make a similar type of run tonight. In fact, the Pacers made a big second quarter run that regained a presence in the game that they then rode to a big lead in the second half. Every time the Calves made a run, Tyre's Halliburton had a response. He's the guy who ignited the run right before the

half that brought the game back within reach. He hit an assortment of pull up threes versus different pick and roll coverages. He hit one over Jared Allen in a switch, he hit one over Jared Allen and a dropped coverage from way out damn near by. The logo just got a heater. They're shooting the ball. That brought them back

into the game. And then the Cavs did end up making another run in the fourth quarter that cut the lead down to one off of a couple of back to back threes from Donovan Mitchell and Tyres Haliburton slammed the door shot on that too. He ran a simple pick and pop off of a big offensive rebound for Miles Turner and hit Andrew Nemhard on the left wing,

who had a three. Ty Jerome goes down and decides it's his time, even though it hasn't been his time in that entire series, so I'm not sure what he was thinking, but ran in there and tried to take some floater and Tyres Haliburton just beautiful rear view contests, swatted it from behind, got the rebound, went down the other way and got an end one and basically ended

the series and ended the Cleveland Cavaliers season. Now here's the thing, Tyree's He may not have had the statistical impact in this series that Donovan Mitchell had, but I thought he dominated every pivotal stretch of the series. He goes for twenty two points and thirteen and a wire to wire pacers just kind of like just demonstrate to everybody what makes them so good in Game one. Then he hits the game winner and two driving layups in

crunch time of Game two. Then he goes for thirty one, six and eight Tonight dominates every pivotal stretch of this close out game five. Aliburn's just having a very special playoff run, and I'm really really excited to see what it looks like in that next round. I want to shout out a couple other pacers before we look forward. Miles Turner, I thought he whooped Jared Allen's ass in this series on both ends of the floor. Scored in

double figures. Every game caused all sorts of problems for him on the roll where he was missing some shots that he usually makes killed him on the glass. Had that critical offensive rebound again tonight after that miss, Jared Allen boxes him out to one point. Game calves, get a rebound and go down and score. We might be heading to Indiana for a game six, but he just throws Jared Allen out of the way like a rag doll,

gets the offensive rebound swing swing. Next thing you know, it's that Tyres Alibert Andrew nemhard two band game that ends in the three that puts him back up by four. His play finishing the picking pop threes, the short roll, jump shots around the elbow, beating switches. In this postseason run, he's shot out of the post on seventeen different possessions and he's scored nineteen points as a shooter. So he's

routinely been a high value option for them. Every single time he catches a guard and a switch in ball screens. He's been excellent. Siakam was consistently good in the series, but put up his two biggest scoring games to close the deal. Andrew Aaroni Smith could make a three tonight, but he had a lot of really high level scoring moves in the mid range. Andrew nemhard again doing the job on both ends of the floor, hitting that huge

shot late. They're just the Pacers are just hitting their peak on both ends of the floor at the perfect time. I thought their defense was excellent again tonight. They held the Cavs to seventy four points over the final three quarters of this game. Even Halliburton I thought was good on defense, getting deflections in his head and recovers with high hands. The rear view contest on Ty Jerome was a huge play late. Like he's active, he's competing, He's

got a shortcomings. He can get out of position. Obviously he's a smaller slender player on ball, but like he just competes and does his job on defense. And so as I look forward to the Knick series, like, I think this is a very different matchup for the Knicks than the Celtics, and I want to I want to make a similar example to what I use. If you

guys remember after the Lakers Timberwolve series. One of the things that the Lakers did in the Timberwolve series is because of their play style with Luka Doncic, they're basically just picking on switches and running a lot of high iso right and so as a result, it challenges your individual defenders, particularly your weaker individual defenders, but it is not so much a mental challenge. It's not a lot of ball in player movement. There's not a lot of

like pace and blender to what they're doing. And then you go into the Minnesota matchup, or you go into the Golden State matchup with Minnesota, and all of a sudden, it's like in game one, you could just see it's like Steph's getting clean looks right away, they're losing Buddy

healed and screening actions. So all of a sudden, there's just this blender of ball in player movement, and without Steph Curry, they were holding second half leads in the games in Golden State, although the talent differential ended up

being too much for them to overcome. But there's a similar dynamic at play as we head into this next matchup for the Knicks, in the sense that as the Knicks deployed a game plan centered around switching with their five and switching with Jalen Brunson, which I agreed with was their best game plan for the Celtics in particular, the Celtics fell into the trap. The purpose of that game plan is not just to gift Boston favorable matchups.

The purpose of that game plan was to stagnate Boston, to force them into a bunch of isolation attack while you, on the other end, have everybody involved, and it can just lead to kind of a rhythm differential between the two offenses. And we saw that manifest as the Nicks pulled away last night. Here's the thing with the Pacers. You can try switching if you want. They're not going to stagnate. They attack switching with speed and ball in player movement. They will still throw the ball to Siakam

on the block. They still will throw the ball to Turner on the block, but they will get the ball moving quickly throughout the possession and force you to make mistakes early in the clock, and then they'll go down to a deep post up and they'll attack it at the front of the rim. That's the big difference between what Siakam and Turner do to your guards and what

Boston does. Boston isolates and faces up from twenty three feet and might work you down to the elbow, but they're not trying to back you down into these like right at the front of the rim type of post ups. Very often the pace they'll move the ball around and when they get the favorable switch, they don't pitch the ball to Siakam at the top of the key. Siakam seals that dude on the block and they throw it down and he's just turning over his left shoulder for

easy shit right off the glass. That's what Miles Turner's doing too. They beat switches right at the front of the rim, and they can beat switching with their ball and player movement. That doesn't matter what your half court scheme is. If they're going to push the ball up the floor, with pace and get into action early and get you into rotation before you're ever set to begin the possession. This Pacers team is a fundamentally different offensive

challenge than what the Boston Celtics do. We all know what the Celtics can do when they get going with their driving kick. There's a certain level of talent that they have in their three point shooting all over the floor. The Pacers bring that too, but they never stagnate. That's

the big difference. And all I could think about last night after the Knicks one and everyone celebrating the Knicks is I'm just worried about a guy like Carl Anthony Towns just being put into a million actions at the top of the key, and not like being asked to just guard Tyre's Halliburton and switches in space, but rather Tyre's Haliburton getting there and then just driving right by Carl Anthony Towns and swing and pass past pass and

driving kick and another wide open three. Like there's a pace and it flow to what the Pacers do that never runs out of steam. You want to know why they come back again tonight after going down by nineteen in the early second quarter, because it never stops. The ball pressure never stops. The pace never stops. The relentless hunting of advantages never stops, the relentless hunting of mismatches

never stops. They just keep coming at you. And so I don't think there's like a game plan trick to slowing down the pacers other than you just have to be super attentive and you've got to try to keep the ball in front of you, and you've got to close out the shooters. So many of these Caves players are not as slow as you'd think. There's a couple guys, like I thought DeAndre Hunter in particular, looked stuck in

the mud often throughout the series. But most of it is just simple decision making from Cleveland, like your natural tendency to sink into the elbow in an off ball situation while not being attentive. And it's just a quick swing pass, and there's Aaron E. Smith going right past you to the front of the rim, or running right past you for an offensive rebound or obi topping you want you turn your head for a second, he's cutting along that baseline. And so it's like I, like I said,

for the U, this like the Timberwolves matchup. I thought that the Celtics series was a test of Jalen Brunson in Karl Anthony Town's individual defensive talent on An Island, and Kat was able to get some stops against Tatum late in Game four. Brunson was able to get stops Layton Game one against Tatum, Layight in Game two against Jalen Brown, in the post against Horford at various points in time. This is gonna be more of a mental challenge.

The idea of contending with the Pacers and their flow is going to be a test up here for your ability to pay attention. And I think that's gonna be a super fascinating series. Obviously, the Celtics series isn't isn't even over yet, but with the news with Jason Tatum's achilles tear, I would just be stunned if Boston won three in a row against the Knicks. So I do think we're gonna end up getting Nicks Pacers in that

third round series. On the Cavs front, you know, it feels like it's very difficult for me to get a good feel for just how big their issues are. There are obvious issues that you can't just explain away with injuries. Jared Allen got his ass kicked, and that's unfortunate because he got his ass kicked by Mitchell Robinson and Isaiah

Hartenstein a couple years ago. Like, there is a couple of examples of Jared Allen being a very good regular season center who runs into these settings and suddenly is not as impactful, not as physical as he needs to be. His advantages running the floor in transition go away because everyone's running. DeAndre Hunter, I thought, had a brutal series on both ends of the floor. He was one of their biggest defensive problems. Ty Jerome struggles. Those aren't associated

with injury. He just got his ass handed to him in the series on both ends of the floor. Next Strus goes for zero points in an elimination game. Too many calves didn't play well. So there's a certain amount of this that is not explainable by injuries. But Darius Garland, I want to kind of like remind you guys of what I said when we were talking about Julius Randall.

Rhythm is a fickle thing, especially for certain players. Yeah, Kevin Durant can have another ankle injury that keeps him out for five weeks and he can just walk on to an NBA court and score twenty seven points on thirteen shots. He's Kevin Durant. He's the exception. Take him and remove him from the discussion. It's it's just it's entirely irrelevant to the majority of basketball players in the world.

For the most, for most basketball players, if you spend any sort of extended time away from the game, it takes a long time to get that rhythm back. There's a conditioning element, there's a leg strength element, there's kind

of like a flow element. Like those of you guys who play will understand you on vacation and you come back and play pick up or you play in your men's league, Like the handle goes away, the jump shot goes away, Like there are a lot of different things that take that takes steps to recover to your full rhythm.

Like there's making shots in practice, making shots against a defender in like a one on one situation, making shots in a real game, like a very different type of especially in an NBA playoff game, with the level of intensity that is there. And so I thought, Darius Garland, it kind of reminded me of some of Julius Randall's early playoff runs where he's just clearly out of rhythm. His jumper was off, he didn't look as explosive as he usually looks. Some of the reeds he was missing,

Like Darius. The offense functioned well when he was on the floor. The Cavs logged about a one to twenty seven offensive rating when he was on the floor. But overall, just the not having Garland be the type of player that we know he's capable of being is like kind of having the headcut off the snake. In a lot of ways, I thought Cleveland in a lot of ways kind of defaulted to a lot more heavy dose Downovan Mitchell. They got away from going to the rim tonight because

I think Indiana wore them down a little bit. I think it's a combination of things. I think there are obvious limitations for this Cavs team that got exposed in this playoff run, but losing basically the heart and soul of your offense and then putting him out there as a shell of himself, I think that that also kind

of exacerbated the issues. There's never really any sustained stretch in the series where I thought they looked like the calves, the calves that I watched in the regular season, And so I think it's important as you head into this offseason to acknowledge that some of this is not explainable by injuries, and you need to look at some specific ways to kind of reconfigure the roster, Like if you're gonna end up playing small with Evan Mobley at center

for large portions of the game, or if you're going to close with Jared Allen and Jared Allen's going to get just stuffed in a bag by Miles Turner, Like there's a certain amount of like you got to start looking at that wing position and trying to get a better version of like what DeAndre Hunter is, you know what Dan Wade is. They need something that provides more juice for them in these playoff lineups because too many of the guys that worked for them in the regular

season did not work for them in this series. We'll do a lot more digging into that as we get into the offseason. My whole frame of mind is very much focused on the postseason right now, and we'll take a lot more look at that when we get into June in July, but obviously disappointing end of the season for the Calves and a lot of introspection that they've got ahead of them as we head into this summer.

All Right, we're gonna have Jackson. Come on, We're gonna take a solid ten minutes or so questions before we head over to playback.

towards their higher variance options. And those are just their higher variance options. Jwa or Mail the three on the right wing late in the game before he made the big one in the left corner. Ludrt missed a boatload of threes in this series, Like a lot of guys miss threes at various points in this series, and so

Denver's just taking a calculated risk. They're like, we if we can play Shay into a rough night, then we have the opportunity to cause the entire Thunder offense to basically look at each other like what are we gonna do, Like who's gonna take the shot, who's going to have the flow, who's gonna have the confidence to go here? And and like like I don't really see an option.

Like if you guys think of it like this, you start covering those shooters, that's where you're just gonna get driven to pieces by Shay and Jadubb and those dudes will just be living at the front of the rim the entire series. And so I think I think it

honestly was probably the best way to do it. I mean, if we talked about Oklahoma City during the regular season, we always talked about loading up the strong side, conceding those you know, kind of like lesser role player, moderately contested high pressure threes, and it didn't work, and you

you know, it's it's playing the results. At that point, I think if you I think, if you guard lou Dort close, if you guard Cruso close, if you guard all these guys close off ball, I think you just get cut to pieces in the lane.

all the discussion about shooting results. Okay, so he's outshot Denver in this series, like Denver's offense has bogged down because none of their dudes are making shots.

even out there? It was like I was like, in real time, I'm just like I feel like that's not the right option because Michael Porter just had no confidence in his jump shot at all, and Peyton Watson wasn't hitting either, but at the very least you can count on him to do some other things.

So like they like they'll credit those guys like those dudes just made plays like they got into the lane. I think I think there's a wear and tear element with Denver's defense to wear like a couple of those late layups, like specifically the spin movie out on Christian Brown where he just went right back to the rim.

Jokich was like just not even ready for it, and he just kind of conceded the layup and Christian Brown was on his heels that entire possession that's part of like that onslaught and then like kind of letting go of the rope because they just wear you down for sure.

seven offensive rating with Darius Garland on the floor. What do you think their defensive rating was with Darius Garland on the floor. It was one twenty seven. So so the point is is they got lit on fire on the other end of the floor. Jared Allen to me, I will have this image burned in my brain of him getting his ass kicked in the playoffs these last few years as like a real problem. I think that there's I think they need to be hunting down more big,

strong forwards that can dribble, shoot, pass and defend. And so if you have the ability to, like Donovan Mitchell has clearly demonstrated that he's one of those guys. And Evan Mobley I think is continuing to progress on like a year by year basis in a way that I think is tangible and real and and useful for their development in the future. But I think I think you got to look at that playoff rotation. I like Max Strews.

I think Max, like he had a rough game tonight, but I thought he was really good for the most part in this postseason run. And he's like a good defender and a guy that just kind of is in the right place at the right time all the time. Like he's one of those guys that I would I would stick with, But there I would I would like, I would start looking around for a team. But what are some fun Garland teams? Just for good question.

When he was healthy. He was like cutting like a knife through butter when he would drive through the lane around it, like it felt like he could beat anybody he wanted off the dribble and get to any spot

on the floor that he wanted to. But the whole thing that everyone was talking about all year is like, the reason why Darius is doing this, it's not that he just got better, it's because he's healthy, and then he got he broke down at the end of the year, and so like a small guard that can't stay healthy, that has his defensive limitations, Like that's where I get to the point where I start to worry about him

as a foundational piece. But I the thing that concerns me is Cavs fans like love that dude, and for good reason. But there are just some realities to playoff basketball, Like if there hasn't been a giant like flashing red light to tell you guys that the playoffs are a different sport, Like we came this close tonight to Denver taking a three to two lead and putting the third sixty win team because we had three sixty wins teams

this year. One of them's already gone, the second one's about to be gone, and the third one was on the ropes tonight until they finally pulled out a game late, and it's still could go either way here the rest

of the series. And so whatever your net rate, Like all the net rating talk and the regular season, all the focus on regular season dominance, it comes down to who can thrive in this sport, which is playoff NBA basketball, which is a different sport, and who has the versatility to make it through four rounds by adjusting to different opponents, Like it has never been more like that in NBA history.

run forty nine ISOs, most of them against switches. He's generated fifty nine points. That's one point two zero points per possession. He's been a super reliable shot creator in this postseason run. Like like I, it's so much deeper than putting shots at putting individual shot making on the table like he is, like it is such a it is such a half court surgery sport. And he just keeps his offense in rhythm consistently. He's had the clut shot making late. I'm not saying he's a top ten player.

But when we when we discussed this summer, I wouldn't be surprised if he landed at like nine, ten, eleven, twelve in that range. And we'll see, we'll talk about it more this summer. To the point of the question, though, like there's been all this debate about, you know, the stars versus the depth, and I've given my two cents in terms of, like me still feeling like stars are determining outcomes in many cases. But it is both, and

it's always been both. Depth is probably a little more relevant now just because a pace there's more possessions of every game, the games are more intense, there's more ground coverage, there's more physical wear and tear, so all that's fair, but there's no doubt that it takes both. You need to have a great player at the head, a great number two, and you need to have a lot of talent down the roster. And if we go back in

NBA history, Boston wasn't just the top five guys. They had six starting caliber players and then Sam Houser was legit and Peyton Pritchard was legit. You go back to the previous year with Denver, it was Bruce Brown like they had they had like six starters that they could legitimately trust and they could, oh, this is not in a Michael Porter Junior game. We're gonna lean into Bruce

Brown more in this particular game. You go back to twenty two with the Warriors, it was Jordan Poole having the success that he had off of the bench, and what's his name, the guy that the wing who always gets hurt auto Porter Junior the Warriors, the Warriors capturing a season of useful auto Porter Junior play twenty twenty one with the Bucks. You look at you know, PJ. Tucker as a bench weapon. You go to the Lakers and it's Rajon Rondo and Kyle Kuzma coming off the bench.

You go back to twenty nineteen. We can go down the line, like every NBA champion has had like six or seven awesome players. There are no examples that I can think of where there was a superstar and a bunch of bums who won the title. That doesn't happen. That doesn't happen. Guys, like you need superstars and you need depth, like like or if you're the Celtics last year, you can have two near superstars and five thirty million dollar players, but like you win championships with talent. That

has always been the case. The only thing we see at the highest levels is two really talented teams. Where sometimes there's a team that's a little bit more talented, but this team overcomes it because they play a better brand of basketball, or they have a few role players that get hot, or a star out plays the other star. But ultimately it's the super talented teams at the top that are competing every year. It's not bums like you need,

you need both. And this Pacers team, everyone's gotten better. We've talked about it. Turner is better, He's beaten switches at a super high level now, Siakam had his is coming on at the right time. The Smith and Nemhart have both gotten better each of the last couple of years. Tyres Halliburn's the best he's looked since the start of last year. Ben Mathern has become a really useful off the bench weapon for them. TJ McConnell's one of the

top four or five backup guards in the league. They're talented, as is every great team that ever makes deep playoff runs in NBA history.

to playback. This is not about either of these two

series today. Assuming the Warriors lose to the t Wolves, should they try to build around their big three in the off season, Steph Jimmy Draymond or see if there's actually any way to pursue a major talent upgrade like Yannis, And just for fairness for the hypothetical, I'm gonna say building around their big three, the option A includes getting Cam Johnson and an option be you know, is honest, because if it's just build around those three guys generally

versus Jannis, the entriest feel like, obviously honest.

have your front office call the Bucks front office. You explore everything there, and you put together the best possible offer that you can. But I mean, ultimately, like even with the Yannis thing, if you get Yannis and it complete guts you of any depth, like because like why would Milwaukee want, you know, Jimmy Butler for instance, Like you're gonna have to You're gonna have to find a way to justify that deal with asset compensation. And so

it's worth a call. It's just unlikely. And then I start to think of it from the perspective of the Cam Johnson piece, and it's like, would you rather have Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler and Draymond or Steph Giannis and Draymond. You obviously take Giannis, but like it's the Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler Draymond is still a really cool like upgrade that accentuates this specific areas that they need help in. And I think that team can compete

for a championship. So it's not a bad fallback option, if that makes sense. You're not holding any delusions of grandeur that they're gonna get young y. Sorry, I don't think so.

couple of minutes. Again, it's playback dot TV slash Hoops tonight. We'll see you guys there in a couple of minutes. What's so, guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting Oops tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I really appreciate it.