Hoops Tonight - Donovan Mitchell & Cavaliers HISTORIC START, will Cavs DETHRONE Celtics?

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welcome to hops tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody. All of you guys are having a great week. Well. The Cleveland Cavaliers have been the biggest surprise of this NBA season so far, can continuing their undefeated streak with a win in Chicago. Very fascinating game. Found themselves down in the third quarter, but an all bench run without a center with a zone look brings them back into the game, and then the starters come in and finish

off the Bulls and keep the undefeated streak alive. I can think of nobody better to do a deep dive on the Cleveland Cavaliers. I'll admit I'm just a little bit of a skeptic still, and I need Carter to help me understand this team on a deeper level. Help you guys understand this team on a deeper level and explain to us how they are kicking everybody's ass.

twelve and zero. They have a very very good chance with their upcoming schedule with a couple of rest advantage games, They're only rest advantage games of the first half of the season are happening this week to maybe extend that up to thirteen fourteen fifteen, going into a matchup in Boston that will be on national TV. So man, it's the good times have been rolling. That's for damn sure.

In your eighth game you go whatever, you know, but now it's like, we got to beat the Nets, man, So it's actually I feel like splipping almost more to stress, you know, Dari know, Darius Garland drops an F bomb post game, like, man, that was a big effing win against the Nets, because it's like, I think the guys don't want to lose the streak either, you know, they're

having so much fun. So I think it's actually gone from like like you know, cautious fun to unbridled celebration to like almost moving towards angst because you just want to keep it going. But but no, it's been I mean talk about a ten out of ten start of the year.

the team that wants to knock you off. And like the NBA right now is in just even a more substantial tougher place than it was back in twenty thirteen. Like here's the thing, Like even in the Eastern Conference, there are they're they the middle tier, the bottom tier of the East is certainly not as strong as the West, but there are still feisty teams in there.

that pressure last night. But one of the things that I that I think has stood out to me the most about this team, and I noticed it last night when you just saw the energy that was coming off of the bench, when Ty Jerome and George's Kniang and Dean Wade and Karis Lavert and was a Merrill was the fifth and that guy that lineup that went on

that run. There's an energy. There's this thing that happens when a team really starts to rack up wins where you can tell they get addicted to the feeling and then it almost permeates throughout the whole roster with this like unbelievable commitment to winning basketball because everyone's addicted to it, and like that is when you really start to get into that special territory. So, like, here's the thing I think the biggest story of this team. Obviously, there's so

much more going on. There's a lot of different guys that are playing better than they did last year. There's a lot of like different dynamics at play. But to me, the story of this team is Kenny Atkinson optimizing the roster and getting another level of buying down the roster in terms of just the attention to detail in a possession by possession basis. So tell us about what the experience has been going from JB. Bickerstaff to Kenny Atkinson.

The guy spent so much time talking about all the stuff he'd learned from Steve Kerr, from Tylu and working on those staffs, and like, you know, I even said to him, was like, Kenny, like you're you're not like a new coach. Like normally, when when a coach is kind of moving into a new job, you know, gets a head coaching gig and they're talking about all their all their influences, all the people they've you know, been

stealing ideas and learning from. It's normally like the kind of the thunder Keen that the new kid on the block coming in, Like, dude, you've been in the league like twenty twenty plus years at this point, Like what about like, you know, this kind of learning mentality has

like why has that taken root? And like he just clearly has kind of he got fired in Brooklyn, you know, obviously a traumatic experience team and said like it was like, you know, I had like a bit of a y me, you know why I get Yeah, yeah, I mean I would certainly argue it was unfair, But instead of going into full victim mentality, he's like, what do I need to get better at as a as a coach and

as a manager of personalities? And you know, going to Tyler and Steve Kerr, Like I cannot imagine two more different coaches on that spectrum, but two elite coaches in that, you know, in that in that various specific capacity, and like it just kind of feels like he came back a better coach than he was in Brooklyn. And I already thought he was a pretty darn good coach in Brooklyn,

you know. And in terms of the ways he's impacting the team on the floor, they're running, man, they are second in transition points per possession and seventh and transition frequency. This is a team that we have been begging to kind of speed up over the last couple of years, you know, playing these two bigs. You know, this was a team that over the past couple of years have

really let perfect be the enemy of good offensively. You know a lot of possessions where it's just swing, swing, and then they get a pretty good advantage and then they drive and kick again, and then and all of a sudden, there's three seconds left on the shot clock, and every now and again you'll still see that slip through.

But this is just a much more decisive offense. Like, yeah, they're running in transition, but they're also just getting shots up faster in the half they're getting they are you know, a lot more possessions where the SHOT's going up at thirteen or fourteen because they just took the first pretty

good shot that was available to them. A stat that I would have thought was a maybe a negative indicator about how the offense was going, that I actually have completely flipped on is I don't know if you know this, Jason.

They're twenty ninth in pastes per game right now. This is a team that you know, and when you think about a team going on this offensive explosion where they're second in the league in offensive raid and going into that Chicago game last night for cleaning the last you'd be like, oh, man, you know, is it Are they playing Iso ball? Is this Joe Johnson reincarnated? And it's not that they are moving the ball, but they are

just playing so much more decisively. They're playing with so much better tempo and they're getting they're capitalizing on the mismatches that they're that their pace is creating for them, even though they're twenty ninth in passes per game, sixth in points created by assist per game. So you know, there is there is there's passing just a pass, and

then there's passing with decisiveness. And I really think that is the biggest change in terms of the tempo of you know how they've been playing so far.

it's like, what did you run the action for? You ran the action to get that advantage so that you can get a shot up like instead of to your to your point, letting perfect be the enemy of good, and then you end up with something worse at the end of the clock as you run into more of those issues. But the transition piece is interesting to me because you look at this roster and it's like Darius Garland speed guard, Donovan Mitchell, you know, like literally S tier athlete.

into their sets quicker. You know, you'd see, even anecdotally, you'd see them kind of walking the ball up after an inbound and he'd be clapping on the sideline like go, go go, Like so you know, who knows if it is the message, the message, the messenger, the personnel you know, you know, or or you know, how they were, how they were emphasizing it. That was the change, you know, I asked, you know, I asked Kenny in my one on one I'm like, hey, everyone talks about it in

the pace of how do you actually do it? Like what what? Because you know, that's like the staple of every off season and you know, you see reporting that all through camp they were running with an eighteen second

shot clock. Oh wow, you know, or at least during significant port parts of their scrimmage, you know, and like, so, I don't know if the message is the same or like Kenny just tweaked it in a way that the guys were able to hear it better, or if it was some of those things in practice where we're like, hey, you actually just don't get twenty four seconds during the scrimmage,

you only get eighteen. You know, those are the kind of things that I think it's a big alchemical reaction in the end that like led to whatever got them up the mountain got them up the mountain. Like do I think think that it's definitely something Kenny values more than JB valued. Yes, But like I do kind of

feel the instinct to defend JB a little bit. Who by the way, I think Pistons are playing really good basketball right now because a lot of a lot of Cavs fans kind of have the instantly aw see, all you had to do was ask him to run. I'm like, dude, he asked him, Like he definitely was asking him to go a little faster and get into their sets. But you know, I think it's I think it's you know, been a column A, been a column B, and the outcome is they're running.

all of a sudden he is. So you know, there's I'm sure there's a little bit of that play in the bigger staff household.

Frank had been their coach for several years. They just needed to change, Like I think, I think that's kind of the way this can go. Sometimes you just need a different voice in there to make it feel reinvigorated, to make it feel different. And I mean the pace has been something that has transitioned into into the half court as well, And like you know, to me, George's

kneeing is the classic example of this. His numbers are actually down year over year, but just the speed with which he's making decisions, the speed on his cuts, the speed that he's slipping out of screens, he's like getting drivele penetration, Like he's just everyone's just making so much more deliberate movement in the half court. The way they get up the floor and they run into their horn sets. They're not just beating around the bush so they could

get to a Donovan Mitchell ball screen. They're running action for the purpose of getting shots early in the clock. Whether it's like oh, if we're running this horn set and the dude's open on the backscreen, throw it. If the skip passes open, throw it. If you have an opportunity to drive a close out, drive it. And then that's where the Evan Mobley part and obviously everyone's playing better.

We were talking about Garland earlier, and we'll get to him in a second, But like the Evan Mobley on ball stuff, to me, is just another way for them to get that initial advantage so they can go bang bang shot, you know, like get that initial drive the clothes out kick easy catching foot three on the side, and it's like they're doing a lot of this, like spamming Marrol setting screens for MOBILEI right around the elbow

and then just quick slipping out to the wing. And almost every time either Mobley's getting downhill and drawing multiple defenders for kickouts or Merrill's open on the slip and then it's hit shot for him or quick swing pass to the corner, or swing to the pass, swing to the corner, drive the baseline. There's another shot available, like they're just getting the defense in rotation with these simple actions.

At at the beginning of possessions, everyone is moving quickly, everyone is decisive, and it's.

like now it just feels like there's so much more variety that he can be picky, which is leading to an increase in his efficiency.

Donovan basically played point guard. They basically played Luka Doncic ball with Donovan in that role through the playoffs, and you know, Donovan really helped keep the offense afloat, but I always felt like that was a high floor, low ceiling outcome for this team's offense, and you know, if you're gonna play that kind of style, because that was you know, a lot of the discussion this offseason where you know, big contingencies of the fan base were like, oh,

we got to trade Darius, we gotta let Donovan run the offense. And I was like, well, you know, if we are going to just keep Donovan at point guard, and then yeah, we probably because Darius is an over underqualified to be an off ball shooting guard and you know, and really needs to. If you're gonna have a guy like that, he needs to play a point guard. And

it really bears out in the touches. Important to note huge minutes played disclaimer here because no one in the Cavs has been averaging thirty minutes a game right now, but last year Donovan was averaging around seventy nine touches a game, Darius averaged seventy five, and Evan averaged fifty one. This year, Darius is leading the team at fifty nine point four touches a game. Evan is second on the team in fife at fifty seven point four and Donovan

is at fifty five point one. Like, I mean, if you would have told me in March of last year that Donovan would be third on the team in touches per game year over year, I would have fallen out of my chair. That's amazing stat I mean, this is a team where you know, every single action was being initiated by the guards generally without an advantage. You know, a lot of just high pick and roll and then let's see what we can do to a team that's

their offense is just frankly much more democratized. There are a lot of guys starting plays, you know, they they had to play last night against the Bulls where Jared Allen gets the ball and takes it up or it takes it at the top of the arc, runs a handoff for Sam Merrill with Donovan just getting a flare screen on the weak side. Like like Donovan is like a secondary action. He's a decoy action almost for this team.

So I don't think, and I think when you don't have a Luca or a Yokich level like ultra super dupersar talent, you need to democratize your offense. You need to have you need to have the defense kind of not know where they need to be set up on a possession of possession basis, And to your point, a lot of ways they're doing that is just letting guys

like Evan just at the board and run. You know, they're they're not feeling the need to have Darius and Donovan walk the ball up court and initiate every set, and it's just made them really hard to guard.

incredible amount of stamina. But even then, it was like I remember, I remember on the twenty sixteen Calves, I used to be like, why is Kyrie having these possessions where he dribbles the ball up the floor like thirteen times? And dribbles the clock out and takes a contested mid range jump shot and literally there's not a single pass on the entire possession. Like remember those possessions with the Calves.

being able to spray out from there. When you play that style, inevitably you might run into a team that's got a couple of really really damn good guards that can guard the ball and that can stay attached on screens, and all of a sudden it turns into a different

type of game. And all of a sudden, having a guy like Mobley who can initiate offense at least to get the defense in rotation so that then Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell are attacking closeouts, then you can use their advantages without having to have that great guard defender pressuring the hell out of him.

of it. But if he catches it coming off a pin down where the defenders worried about him shooting because he caught the ball with two three feet of space before he even goes into that secondary pick and roll or a dribble handoff where he gets where he's getting

the ball with the running start. Now the things he is great at, which is the change of direction, the tempo kind of pushbowl where he you know, he goes from zero to max speed back to zero better than almost anyone, Like all the stuff he is great at. Now he gets to actually leverage with a defense that's already trying to catch up, like and that is the stuff that they're able to do right now. I mean,

obviously the Evan stuff. And Evan has always been kind of the thing that enables that because he is an elite playmaker as a big in terms of his fuel for the game, in terms of his ability to pass, and the skill stuff has been catching up. You know, the handle is getting a little tighter every year, the touch is getting a little better every year. But his ability to read and kind of interpret what's going on that's always been there, and I feel like they're really leaning much harder into it.

downhill and throwing that beautiful lob to Evan Mobley. And then the second one was just a dribble penetration off the top of the key and he got a little left handed layup and it's like he's getting downhill because of the threat of the three point shot like that. That is a that is a key element to it. If you can get baked in dribble penetration without having to leverage your athletic tools simply because of the threat of your shot, that is where you can bring real value.

And again that's the other matchup piece where it's like he had the most favorable matchup in that situation. You know, like it's a lot easier for him to go to work against Zach Lavine than it is for Donovan Mitchell to go against ayatassum MoU whoever it is. That's on him in any given situation where he's drawing the high leverage perimeter defender and that that's where that variety comes in. That is where uh, that is where that like you just have more punches you can go to depending on

the matchup. So I've a couple things I want to get to you real quick. So the depth, I did not even notice in my research that there's not a single cav playing over thirty minutes.

prefers to run a tighter rotation. He really, you know, you can tell JB is at his happiest when he's playing eight, you know, and every now and again would

extend to nine. But there were, you know, the five minutes last year where the team was fully healthy, he tried a ten man rotation, and it just felt like you know, you ever like you know, you ever at a buddy's house and you borrow like a hoodie or something, because it's called like this isn't quite mine, this doesn't comfortable, you know, like that's the way it felt with JB. It felt like he was trying on another coaches tactics

when he had to go ten. And then you watch what Kenny's doing playing ten, and he he said before the season he might try play at eleven when the team's fully healthy. And like you can really see why it, you know, for someone who was like I was like, dude, they have four guys that need at least thirty two to thirty four minutes a game that gets really hard, really fast to you just run out of minutes and you're playing guys two minute shifts.

and normally by the two minute mark they're out. So those guys know, this is what this, this is the way I need to run and how I'm going to play. During the stretch, there's there's no ambiguity to it. But in the second half he's he kind of is able to read the room a little bit more. He's a lot more flexible and a little less orthodox. So you know, hey, we are starters look like they're dead. We've played the heaviest schedule than of the entire league so far. We're

just gonna go with a five man bench lineup. So he's doing a really nice job of creating a structure where guys know where their minutes are coming from and giving himself the flexibility. So I feel like that is part one to this is the bench is playing better because everyone knows exactly what their job is and when their job needs to be executed. And then obviously the

players are just playing great. You know. Sam Merril, you know, has been a real tool, as you mentioned, alongside Evan Mobley and like Dude Gie your Ome, Tie Jerome, he has been the best backup point guard in the league't I actually did did a little right before this, and he's it's pretty objectively true. Maybe TJ McConnell can can

lay claim. Tijerome is averaging twenty two points, seven point six assists, four and a half boards, three point three steals per thirty six on sixty one fifty four eighty three percent.

having to get surgery. It was a crazy thing. And you know, so he was a guy who was either out of sight, out of mind for the Cabs or for Cabs fans, not this Cabs fan, but for the general population. Or was a guy that like was kind of representative of like frustration with like, oh, this guy that we added didn't even play. You got to hang ankle Spring didn't even end up playing, like Vincent for

the Lakers, is what you're saying. Absolutely, that's a great cop you know where you know it's not fair to the guy, but certain certain parts of the fan base just kind of treated him as like part of their frustration and uh, and he has just been he's taken this game up another level in the system. Remember he played for Kenny and Golden State when he when he was kind of the second slash third point guard depending on h depending on what part of the season you

were in for the Warriors. And he had real moments there too. Absolutely had real moments against the Cabs. I think that's part of the reason they designed to be scored like twenty seven and a bench mob win in Cleveland. But you know, he he's got great size, six ' five, he's got a great stop and start game. The playmaking has been really good. And you know, here's the thing, man, Like, this team is not an inherently nasty team. You know, Evan and Jared they are so fundamental, so smart, but

they aren't. They aren't, you know, the the kind of guys who are like digging elbows into people's sides. You know, neither is Darius, Neither is Donovan. You know, I would say we are the least grifty team in the league on that front, you know, like yeah, and the free

throw late rates will U will confirm that. So it's nice having a guy who kind of plays like a dick, you know, like I mean, I think there's no other way to say it than a guy like Jerome is kind of doing the stop start, you know, clearing space with his elbows, and you know, he just plays different than all their other players, and so he has been unbelievable.

I thought he was one of the guys that was primed or you know, most dangerous to lose his rotation spot when Max Strus returned, because, by the way, Maxtreus hasn't played a minute yet. Yeah, what about Max Trus exactly our starting small forward who was our best plus minus player last year.

Brooklyn's playing super tough at the point of attack. We're playing Karris Lavert at power forward, and they won the game with that lineup, but that it was dodgy a few times on the glass and things like that, and they you know that would be Max Stru's playing those power forward minutes, and you know he can shoot on the move.

they haven't had him. I thought Ty Jerome would be, you know, a guy that maybe might drop out of the rotation. I don't think you can. He's been that good, that consistent, and he's saved them a few times.

with a ton of pace in the half court. Everyone's minutes are going to be down, but we're gonna do these like just aggressively long rotations, but to your point, consistent, so the guys know what they can count on and they're not scared of getting pulled anytime they make a mistake.

throw me the ball steals. These are I'm ripping the ball away from you steals, And like that's generally been a big emphasis from Kenny going into preseason, where he's like, hey, we've got this great defensive team, we're not a great turnover forcing team. Plays like that where they're really emphasizing

ripping the ball. Even guys like the Yang have gotten a lot their hands on balls, a lot more in terms of getting rips and steals, like those kind of players are like are part of what it has made this team feel a little bit inevitable over the last couple of weeks where it's like, man, every time the other team's making them real push, someone like tied Jerums to rip them and it you know, it generates a wide open three, and it's like, that's so painful for

the posision and yeah, he's been amazing, just makes.

came from Golden State. It's like that textbook like not conceding switches just for the sake of conceding switches, but being more willing to switch and then like stunting and recovering rather than hard helping and doubling, which has caused defenders to be positioned in passing lanes more often and has caused offensive players that have the ball to be more indecisive. So then when they turn to make those kickout passes, there's people in the lanes and they're using

that to then just further leverage their transition pushes. Like I mean the game against the Lakers, man, I think they had I think the Lakers had six spedovers. Yeah, I was a complete beating. They had I think six turnovers in the first quarter, and I'm pretty sure they scored on every single one of them.

a very very high rate. They had two games in a row where aj Green and Jose Alvarado combined to go like fourteen to fifteen from three against them, Like you know, they they've had guys go just bananas against them from three despite so like I think their ninth in defensive rating. That might have changed after last night.

But like they are generally underperforming their metrics. But to your point, I think their fundamentals are really really strong when they're switching, especially when they switch a big at the point of attack they're doing. I really would recommend anyone watching the team to not look at the ball on those plays and look at the tag out that happens on the back end where you know Darius Garland. They'll run. The opposing team will run a pick and

roll at Darius Garland and Evan Mobley. Evan will take the switch. Darius will switch onto the opposing team's power forward. In no time at all, Jared Allen will have swapped in tag Darius to a lower threat player. You know, And that was a team, you know. I've always credited the Boston Celtics for this. They're the best tagout team in the league and have been for like six years. The Cavs are starting to learn how to do that at a much better rate. And then, frankly, dude, they're

just playing better at the point of attack. Darius Garland when he gets switched onto an APEX scorer, isn't getting cooked. Sam Merrill is holding his ground, He's not killing it. But when you have Evan or Jared on the back line, your margin for air as a defender is pretty high. You just can't get absolutely torched. So even if you get beaten, but like make it a little harder for them, you're still probably going to give up a less than

ideal shot for the offense. So like, again, their margin forer air is great, their attention to detail at the point of attack is great. Steph no on Twitter just this morning posted a clip of Donovan denying Zacly being down the stretch where he has scored three or four possessions in a row and basically Donnie faceguards him for an entire possession to keep him away from the ball. Like they have the top end talent on the back line and then they just have the attention to detail

at the point of attack. And it's and again, I think this is the ninth overall team in defense right now. I really think they'll end the season around, you know, in the top five. So even if their offense drops off a little, they have margin ferrer on the other end.

Guys like we're all in this together. There's a there's like almost like a community feel from the defensive end, and like you, it's I think this is one of the coolest things that happens in sports when you kind of catch this like flash in a pan winning type of environment, because you can literally see it build on itself. You can literally see it gain momentum. But we have

to go negative now, Carter. So if I asked you, if I asked you to nitpick this team and to come up with the reason why you are just I'm not even saying a reason why they would fail, just say what you are concerned about. Is there anything that when you watch them when things do go off the rails, when teams do go on run, like, oh, Chicago's up seven in the third quarter, what's happening? What are the things that you're seeing? If you had to nitpick this team.

You know, they there's been a little bit of a backslide there, or Darius doesn't take the open three when the defender goes under. So those are some of the habit things I think in terms of the comfort level, you know, I've you know, we talked about this earlier in the pod, but I think Donovan Mitchell has had the biggest degree of an adjustment to make of anyone

on the team. And I think there are some a few possessions this year where if you're really watching closely, where he is breaking the offense to just go get to go, take a get a bucket, and he's amazing

at that. But it is noteworthy that he's I feel like Donovan is still finding himself in the Kenny offense more than anyone else, which is funny because all of his percent all of his efficiency numbers are are high, but you can still see a few cracks where it's like, all right, Donovan, me like you you can't hijack that possession. You know, everything's running super smooth. But to his credit again, I know this is the nitpicking section, but even when

he does that, he doesn't he hasn't been stubborn. You know, the next game down the stretch that that game is tight, there in the middle of a huge comeback, uh you know, being spurred by Darius, being spurred by Evan and Donovan comes down basically doesn't pass an entire posision, takes a contested seventeen footer and misses. You know, all every Cabs fan and are Discord is furious at the shot. And then the next like four possessions that goes Darius.

They're not all going to keep shooting this well. You know, Carris is well over forty percent for Karris Lebert is at forty seven percent from three this season. You know, I don't I don't expect.

they don't have a lot of big man depth. Like it's funny because everyone talks about them as this big, big team, but you know they really only have two centers on the roster, and one of them starts for them at Power Forward, you know, because Tristan Thompson is much more of a veteran leader than a guy that you really want to be playing twenty minutes a game. What happens to this team if Evan Mobley misses three weeks due to injury, or Jared Allen is having a

series where he just can't hang for whatever. You know, he's having a bad series and you want him closer to twenty minutes a game, not not you know, thirty two, thirty four, Like that's the one like roster piece where I go, This feels a little shallow.

that's a big part of your team's identity. So those are my knits to pick. But man, do they feel nitpicky right now?

Like I always like, I always have a little bit of grace for that sort of thing, and you take that away from him. Yeah, And like, also there is something to be said about a score, like wanting to feel the basketball a little bit, like they're like it's like it's like, for instance, like I've always hated the right shoulder fade from Lebron in the post, Like I feel like he's never made it more than thirty two thirty three percent of the time. I feel like he

settles for it way too often. But I have always just been okay with Lebron taking three or four kind of BS shots a game where he's just kind of feeling out his like kind of like creative shot making, you know what I mean, Because then again, I want him to feel a little bit more comfortable when it if he does end up in a late clock situation at the end of a game and and he's created a shot. So like there's always a delicate balance between letting a score field the ball and like, Okay, you're

starting to co opt too many possessions. We need to get back into our flow. And so it's always complicated. But I do think Donovan has done a good job for our last topic today. I'm just gonna I'm just going to take the Devil's advocate stance, and I do kind of feel this way, but it's just way too early in the season. I just want to see a lot more basketball. But let's say I'm like, Okay, I think Boston's way better than Cleveland.

sit around the basket. We know that there's like a formula here for Boston. What is Can you make a case for our viewers why you think Cleveland should be on Boston's tier or if you don't think that they should be explained how close you think they are?

we didn't have Darius Garland in Game five. We literally were running kros We have Caroselaburton game five like, like this team actually made Boston work really really hard for that series win, despite being more depleted than just about anyone.

I think that the Two Bigs is the ultimate kind of panacea for Boston ball, like as far as one it can be found, because they you know the big thing about Boston is they get rim pressure, They suck you in, They kick it out for three, and the best way to do that is to keep to not have to go three, you know, two on the ball. And the Calves do a great job between switching and tagouts, between just literally being able to cover ground where Evan can stunt in to stop rim pressure and get out

and contest a three point shot. Don great at that too, Yes, Jarrett can do that at a high level. You know, I think Boston's has levers to pull. It's not like the Calves don't have. You know, I think Boston would absolutely be favored in a series because you know, they can work to get switches where you know, Darius or

Donovan or guarding Jalen or Jason. But like, if I'm any team in the league, I'd rather die to Tatum Iso mid range pull ups than to any other thing that Boston does, you know, And I think the Calves are best suited to bait Boston into their worst habits and that might not get you through a series. But like compared to all these other teams who like Boston can take away the best stuff they do, I don't think that's the case for for Cleveland. You know, I

think they're their size in the front court. They're actually the only team that's bigger whose size can really affect Boston in the front court because they don't just have the one big that they can throw Porzingis on. They've got Evan and like, Evan's gonna make Jason Tatum guard him. Yeah, you know they can. They can attack the offensive glass. They have tools in their toolkit and frankly, as great as Drew holiday uh And and Derek White are at

the point of attack. I got to say, going from the Orlando series where they had Jalen Suggs, that insane bulldog guarding them, Boston felt easier. They are easier to attack from the perimeter than a team like Orlando. And that's you know, Drew is just Drew does his best against the bulky, strong guys, you know, like the change. You know, Donovan was able to get to the rim at will until he got hurt in that series. Darius wasn't because Darius was like a shell of himself through

the back half of the year. But I think that, you know, it's actually not a bad matchup for them, even though you look at their offense comes from the two great guards. Boston has two great defenders I think the things that make Derek White and Drew great. You know, they're they're good defender. You know, they're ninetieth percentile defenders on Darius and Donovan, but they're not one hundredths percentile defenders.

I do think that matters in a series where the margins are as thin as they are in the playoffs.

in a seven game series in the clutch. But I think you're right. I think Boston would deserve to be favored. It's just that Cleveland is encroaching on that tier in a major way. Interestingly enough, I was pulling up, but I had to read a Draft Kings ad yesterday and they had the Calves as the second favorite to win the NBA Cup. So I was like, huh, I want to back into the hell yeah mans. So I wanted to look at the title odds and they actually have him tied for seventh right now with the Suns. I'm

surprised by that. So they have the Thunder and Celtics ahead of them to be expected, the Knicks are ahead of them, the Nuggets are ahead of them, the MAVs ahead of them, and the Timberwolves.

is awesome. But the reality is if they had beaten Orlando in five, I'll bet those odds are different, you know. But they we have not seen this Cabs team go up a level in the postseason yet. In fact, we've really only seen them under especially on their offense. We've only seen their offense go down in the postseason. And I understand that especially for a team that's not going to be a public team like the Cap. You know, we're not in a glamour market like you kind of

have to go take it. You have to go take that that perception win, you know. So I think there will remain skepticism about the ceiling of this team until

we see more consistent dominance, you know. And like this is what I was talking on our last podcast about this where I feel like my expectations for this team in the most literal sense have not changed since the start, which is that I think that they they really should be a top two or three seed in the East, and I think they should really try to make a push towards the conference finals. That would be a successful

season for me. That's still the same, except how I think each series should go on the road to that outcome those That's where I've changed. Where it's like instead of you know, if you pull Philly in the first round, if you lock up the one or the two seed and you pull Philly in the first round, maybe at the beginning of the year like just happy to win, where I'm like now, like that's a wounded team and I think they're a tier better than them. They need

to win to kick their butt. Yep, yeah, they should kick butt. They should beat these you know tier. You know, if if we're gonna pretend, if we're going to say the Cabs are kind of in a tier of their own right now, at least in the where the season is right now, they certainly are, then they should be dominant of the teams and the tiers below them. Uh, they if they get to a conference finals show down with Boston, just hanging shouldn't be enough. You should make

them sweat. Yeah, you should see six or seven game series. Yeah you need you need to have them really have to be great to beat you like that. So, like it's even though the literal outcome isn't different, like I do, think expectations have changed.

sample size, it's been there's been enough big wins. I mean, I don't think the Lakers are as good as Golden State to start this year, but I think Golden State and LA are two pretty good teams that didn't just go into Cleveland and get beat. They went into Cleveland and got humiliated.