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a great week. We got a very special guest today, senior NBA writer at Sports Illustrated, one of our colleagues here at the Volume as well, Mister Chris Mannix is going to be joining the show to break down the Boston Celtics and then talk a little bit about the league at large in season turn may where he's at with contenders and things along those lines. Chris, I appreciate you making time to hop on the show. This is
where I want to start today. So obviously, when it comes to the Celtics, it's so annoying to talk about them because they're so good that, like it's difficult to frame the conversation properly from the standpoint of like they've been the second best team in the league this year by win percentage, and they've played by far the hardest schedule, So like they're clearly awesome, but then there are like these kind of discouraging moments where it's like they go
and they fail a big test in Minnesota, or like last week against Indiana where their offense kind of stalls out down the stretch and like Tatum gets Haliburton on a couple of switches and he just waits for the clock to run out and takes a tough contested jumper, or he's isolating Aaron Nee Smith on a cleared side and he can't really quite get a great advantage and
their offense kind of stalls out. They had a one twelve point five offensive rating and clutch time versus Indiana couldn't get a stop on the other end and they lost. So at this point, are you worried at all about the Celtics and the same late game offense issues that we've been hearing discussed over the last few years, And was Indiana concern at all within the lockerown?
Yeah, I wouldn't use the word worried yet about the Celtics.
I still think they are as good as it comes, with the top six in the NBA, and there is a lot to like about this team, right Like when they're on they're great offensively, they're great defensively.
I think they're one of three teams in.
The NBA that are top ten and offensive, defensive, and net rating. So I think there's just too much to like to be concerned. There are some things that absolutely need to be ironed out. You mentioned fourth quarter execution.
From my vantage point, I'd like to see.
Them run more offense through Jason Tatum in the fourth quarter. They have been kind of spread the wealth in some of those situations, and I think Tatum when it comes playoff time, he's going to be the guy, like you're gonna need him to take over games, and I'd like to see them more in that direction late in games where it's finding, you know, ways for him to isolate mismatches things like that.
That's something I'd like to see the.
Coaching staff get more creative with. One of the problems though they've had all seeds has been third quarters. Third quarter has been a disaster for Boston. They're one of the worst third quarter teams in the NBA. And Indiana was a great example of that. They had a seven point league going into the locker room at halftime of that game. They were down like eight or nine or whatever it was beginning the fourth quarter.
That's not an aberration. That's been a trend.
And you know when you see that, you think the energy isn't right coming out of the locker room, which has been a problem for this team in the past. And you think coaching adjustments, because that's when the coaching staff for both teams makes the adjustments that they're going to make, you know, for the second half. So that
to me is a bigger area concern right now. The fact that this team has been so bad in third quarters during this season when you get to the playoffs, that's something that you have to be, you know, straight with.
Yeah, I remember checking at during that third quarter against Indiana and I looked at I ended up looking at the just the third quarter net rating and I think they were like twenty ninth for the MBA or something like that. It was. It was really bad. I think I think the thing for me personally, that's kind of discouraging. And I understand the reason why because I've seen this with basketball teams a lot where like they're almost too good to the point where it makes them sometimes a
little lazy on offense. And what I mean by that is like, like these guys work really hard on a lot of really tough shots, and so sometimes they find themselves in a situation where they can make a shot and they'll take it rather than being a little a little bit more deliberate to get a great shot. So to give you an example, like if I if I told you that you had a team that I think we I think you. Let me just ask you this
straight up. Do you think the Celtics have the best combination of ball handling, shooting, and passing in the NBA? I mean, like down the roster and just total number of guys that are skilled off.
ENSI point yeah, because you at least the top six that they're playing, and we can get into seven to eight, which I think is a point of concern for this team.
At least top six.
You know, whether it's big or small, they're all good ball handlers, playmakers, three point shooters.
So yeah, I would say the answer is yes.
Yeah, And see that's what's kind of discouraging to me that group should be better than seventh in offensive rating, And there's a couple of specific things that stand out to me. For one, they take a ton of pull up jump shots. They take twenty one of them a game, which is eighth in the NBA, yet they only get zero point nine to three points per shot, which is
seventeenth in the NBA for that shot type. Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown alone take thirteen pull up jump shots a game, and both of them are not nearly as efficient on that shot for what you would like, like this is not a Tyrese Haliburton pull up jump shot or a Steph Curry pull up jump shot where you're
getting well over a point per possession. Then deeper down the list of concern for me, that kind of willingness for both of those guys to kind of settle at the start of possessions has led them to be twenty
third in assists per one hundred possessions. And so my thing is, like, I think the idealized version of this team is one that is a little bit more predicated on ball movement, rim pressure through slashing and making really good rim decisions for wide open threes and layups at the rims because at this point, Like, I think if this team's gonna win the title, they have to be better offensively than they have been to this point. Would you agree?
Yeah?
To expand on that, I think at times they get way too bog down in three point shooting. I mean, the pull up jump shots are bad for sure, but they are the definition of live by the three and die by the three.
I mean this year they're.
Sixteen and one this season when they're shooting forty three and a half percent, are better from three point range on one four when they're shooting anything less than that.
So you know, the way that they leaned.
In to the three point shooting this year really going full Missoula ball. Like you know, last year, they still had an offense or a team that was built to play a system that em Udoka was comfortable with. This year because of what we saw at the end of last year where Joe Mizula was just encouraging threes at all times of the game, they've leaned all the way into that with porzingis now getting a lot of minutes
at that center position. So you know, I think they they do have some concerns about shot selection, whether it is those pull up jump shots, or just their tendency to get you know, way too committed to three point shots to will themselves back into games.
And quick threes too, like, like they take a lot of threes that are like good not great threes, if that makes sense, And like, I think that reflects in I think it reflects in their percentage too, because we talked about this earlier and you and I agree, Like I think I think Derek White's an excellent three point shooter, Jason Tatum's an excellent three point shooter, Jalen Brown is an excellent three point shooter. But they kind of ram
their own percentages down with that shot selection. As a team, they're eighteenth in percentage, which really shouldn't be the case for the level of talent that they have on that roster.
And like specifically at the end of games, and you had mentioned this, and I one hundred percent agree with you, the running the offense more through Tatum because they're thirteenth in clutch offensive rating, And that was another thing that popped up against Indiana, like we mentioned earlier, And one of the things I noticed down the stretch that Indiana game is they kept trying to get switches off to get Tatum off of Nie Smith, but they were using him as the screener, and so one of the things
that Nie Smith was able to do is just hug up on Tatum, and they know Derek White's looking to pass because Derek White wants to get the ball back to Tatum, and so then all of a sudden it would just end up with Nie Smith on Tatum again, and then he'd be taking some tough, contested long jump shot.
One of the things I'd like to see him do is put Tatum on the ball and have Derek White set the screen, because then in that situation, if they if they don't hedge or show or switch in any way, shape or form, Tatum can get downhill and that's where
his passing ability can become an advantage. And then if for whatever reason, they both show on him, now Derek White could be wide open and it's just they're going to overreact to Tatum and both ends of that action, and so it doesn't make sense for him to not
have the ball. And then also, and I'm sure you'd agree with this, but I think Porzingis being out there would help a lot, because in those pick and pop situations, they're just going to be in a drop coverage waiting for Tatum at the rim, and Porzingis is going to get wide open catches at the top of the key where he can kind of get the defense into rotation better.
And it's worth mentioning Porzingis has played in just four hundred and eighty three out of one and eighteen minutes this year, and he's been one of their best on off guys. Like, if you look at the on off numbers, two of the guys that stand out pretty quickly are
Derek White and Chris Hoops Porzingis. And it makes sense to me because Porzingis is such a great entry point for them offensively, and then Derek White is like their most gifted like all around offense of guard, you know, with his ability to pass and to shoot the ball. But like, I think you hit the nail on the head, like they absolutely have to revamp some things with their late game offense and lean on Tatum more, if for no other reason than the reps that he needs, yeah
to be to be able to handle that down the line. Overall, with Jason Tatum's development, like here, I guess he turns twenty six in March, so we're getting into like I think you could comfortably say he's in his prime, right, So, like, where are you at overall with his development at this time?
I think it's been excellent that you know, look, you see strides that Tatum is making every single year. You look at this year, he's shooting something like seventy four percent at shots at the rim. That's a great number for Jason Tatum. His mid range game, I believe is still right around fifty percent. That's a great number for Jason Tatum. He's spokes as above sixty percent on drive to the basket. That was a real point of emphasis for Jason Tatum and the people around him this offseason.
He shot I think thirty eight percent on drives during the two than twenty two playoffs or they made that run to the finals. After that, they were locked in on trying to improve that part of his game. The fact he's above sixty percent, which is like Halliburton territory, Lebron James territory, that speaks volumes about Jason Tatum's development as a player. I mean the critique of Tatum that I've seen recently, and you can go back to that Indiana game when he did get the matchups that he wont,
specifically on Halliburn, they won. Him defended by Halliburn in the first half, he was taken to the basket.
The second half he was pulling up for three.
You're doing Tyres Haliburt in a favor if you're taking a half contested three point jumps shot in a situation like that, I want to see him going to the basket, getting to the free throw line, which has done a nice job of at this year. You know that to me is the strength of Jason Tatum's game right now.
Yeah, he has improved so much at the rim, it's ridiculous, like it's night and day from where he was a couple of years ago. The post up stuff has been really interesting. There have been eighteen players this year that have run at least seventy five post steps. His one point one points per possession including passes ranks fourth out.
That was an Another better factis for him this offseason, like they they saw their weaknesses, you know, him and the guys around him, Drew Handlin, his longtime trainer, they saw these weaknesses and and they were determined to fix them. And the post ops was something that they wanted to get better at and proving the mid range percentage with something.
They want to get better that. And you know those drives to the basket.
I mean Jason Tatum, you know, the last couple of years has grown into his man strength. They want him using that to get to the rim, get to the free throw line, and to score at a high percentage. And he's doing that this season.
Well, it's it's he's gonna need that when they get to the postseason. That that was That's been one of the things specifically, especially as he's gotten so much stronger. It's just gonna be something that's that he can lean on and like like that. That's that's what's crazy. Like when you're looking at those post up guys like it's Jokic number one, Siakam who's been excellent this year in the post, Anthony Davis, and then Tatum, Like it's kind of weird to even see his name in those types
of lists. I would say, Oh, one other wild stat about Tatum in the post, when he shoots out of the post, he draws a foul twenty nine percent of the time.
That is a look they think that he can uh the one you know, Eventually, they believe that Tatum's ability to be a creator out of that spot is going to be valuable for them because double teams are going to have to come if he's scoring at an.
Efficient rate out of that post.
And they believe he's got it in him to be a solid playmaker in those types of situations which unlock other things within that offense.
And that specifically was what he did at the end of the Mining Heat series that kind of turned things around for them. It was cleared side post ups and ISOs where basically it simplifies his reads and his ability to see the floor and kind of allows him to use his strength and like, honestly the one because you hit the rim finishing. His assists are down a little bit, but I think that more has to do with Drew Holliday come in and just more diversity of shot creation
in general with the team. Like he's just not hell Leo centric, so he's not going to put up six seven assist a game. I still think Tatum's a very gifted passer, but like all of this good there, the one thing is again the pull up jump shot, which is crazy because to start the year he was red hot, like he was making everything, but he's cooled way off. He's at forty three percent in effective field goal percentage on pull up jump shots. That's zero point eighty six
points per shot. He was forty two percent last year. He's taken seven of them a game. He's in the thirty sixth percentile for his volume around the league. So for me, like again, it's really this simple. Tatum's good is now good enough to do the job and to
get this team over the top. It's can he, as a matter of discipline, kind of cut out some of the bad, which is like, will he have the discipline in a game five in Indiana to to has Haliburton on a switch with a cleared side to rip through to the baseline, turn his back and back him down and make a powerful move towards the basket, or draw a double team and make a playout of it, Like will he have that level of discipline? Because we know he can, it's just a question of whether or not
he will. But before we move on to the rest to some big picture stuff, I wanted to kind of get your pulse on the Drew and Christop's acquisition so far. Let's start with Drew Holliday. How do you think his fits spend so far with the Celtics through four?
Really good? Look.
His shooting numbers continue to concern me because it's something of a continuation of a trend. Like his last year in Milwaukee, the numbers were worse than the year before.
This year.
I don't know exactly what they are right now, but you know, last time I checked, they were trending downward, and that is obviously something you want to watch as the season goes on. But if you're around that team, you know, they just can't stop singing his praises, like just what he brings defensively.
His versatility.
I mean, he's defending power forwards most nights, Like you can put him. You know, it's kind of a cliche to go you can guard it, you can put a guy on one to five, but that's exactly what they're doing. You're seeing him on you know, seven footers, you're seeing him on point guards. So you know, that kind of versatility defensively has been invaluable.
The same thing with Porzingis.
Like my concern with Porzingis was not his production, because I did believe the way Boston moved the ball that he would get opportunities. Maybe not the same volume of opportunities he got last year in Washington, but he would get opportunities and clean looks at the basket.
My concern has only been staying on the floor.
And look, he's got the calf injury that's lingering right now.
Hopefully you know, you can put that behind him.
But this is a guy it's only played what sixty plus games three times in his NBA career. You know that worries me. Until he proves he can stay out there on the floor, that's going to be a concern for me. So I think Porzingis and and Holiday have been exactly what this team needed. What what they worries me about this team when they get.
To the playoffs.
And I said this at the start of the season, I feel like the Celtics were only six and a half guys deep, and I use Peyton Pritcher's kind of a half because I didn't know exactly what they were going to be able to get from. I still think that with the Celtics. Ritcherck has been wildly inconsistent. Uh, Sam Houser shooting the lights out of the ball, But you know what, Sam Houser shot the lights out of the ball first half of last season.
Two.
I need to see it over a full season before I believe he's gonna do it in the playoffs. The rest of those guys, like you know, Joe Missoula, is kind of mixing matches guys that are in that that rotation.
Nobody's really stuck as of yet.
Look, I understand you tighten your rotation in the playoffs, but if you really have six guys that you trust, that that's that worries me when you get into a series against the team that's probably gonna be able to play seven or eight.
Yeah, the the Houser thing's been interesting because, like I actually think he's been pretty solid on defense too.
Like see that and I see no man like the team still hunt him like they still every ty game I see still hunted him down.
Yeah.
I get that the metrics say has been a little bit better, But what I see teams like trying to get him on switches all the time and and attacking going through him. It just look, I just everything with the Celtics. You have to view through the lens of a deep playoff run. And can you play Sam Hauser against Milwaukee in a second or third round series. I'm not yet convinced of it. I mean, look, I was
on the Sam Hauser train last year. I mean I was around this time of year calling Tony Bennett down to Virginia, writing a glossy profile on Sam Hauser.
And then he kind of fell off a cliff.
The shot stopped falling, the defense wasn't there, and he was unplayable for that team in the postseason.
Has that dramatically changed?
Is there a significant difference in the Sam Hauser of this year than there was last year? Maybe there is, but you know, after kind of being a little bit burned on it, you know, after the start of last season, I need to see more of it before I'm gonna buy it.
I have this issue with Laker fans too, where it's like there's a difference between like an exciting story, like oh, Max Christy is showing some flashes of you know, and it's like, can this dude play two shifts in the Western Conference Finals? So like it's a totally different ballgame when you get to that point. And I would agree
with Sam Hauser, like it's an exciting story. He's got like he kind of fits that mold of like the dunkin Robinson Michael Porter Junior, like elite week side shooter that's got good length that could theoretically help and help defense situations and defensive rebounding, but it's like, do you trust him in that spot? I don't know. I think Drew's been interesting because it's it's kind of classic Drew, where like when he sticks to what he's good at,
he's awesome. Like off ball, he's been excellent. He's been converting spot up possessions at an extremely high rate, almost one point three points per possession. Obviously you mentioned the defensive stuff, not just power forwards but centers as well, Like he's doing everything for them defensively. It's his on ball stuff where like he can just go a little rogue sometimes and he hasn't been super efficient in those situations. I think Chrisops Sports thinkas has been like like about
as perfect a fit as you could possibly imagine. They are almost six points better per one hundred possessions with him on the floor versus off. He's been one of the best role men in the league this year one point three to one points per roleman possession. That's fifth out of twenty three players to run at least fifty possessions. These post up stats are wild one point six y four points per post up including passes on pretty decent volume.
That's ninety eight percentile. And he really hasn't even shot the ball that well yet. Last year with the Wizards, a Porzingis jump shot was worth one point one points. This year it's been worth zero point nine to eight, So I think he could even go up a level as a shooter. He's actually held up really well defensively, not just in his drop coverages, but he's done really good on switches. He's been an excellent switch defender this year. I think the Kristaps Porzingis thing has been a home run.
To your point about the debt, like they're in that weird spot now where it's like, if you could guarantee me all of those top six guys will be like ready to go, then I think they're fine, but there's very little margin for error there, and I would imagine the front office feels that way as well. So this is the before we get to the big picture. My last question I want to ask you is do you think the Celtics will be active around the deadline at all?
Or do you think this is a buyout team, Like what do you look, what do you think in terms of in season changes to the roster.
I think he'll be act.
I believe they still have that Grant Williams trade exception that they can use, some other you know, salary cap vehicles that they can use.
They still have some draft capital that they can deal.
And one thing we've learned about Brad Stevens over the last few years that he is a chips all in kind of guy. With some of the moves he's made the last two seasons, he has not been shy about upgrading the roster, and it does sound you know, my sense of what Celtics ownership has said to Brad Stevens is that, like, if you can guarantee that the player we're acquiring is going to help us win at a
higher level, we'll pay whatever you need. It's guys that they acquire that wind up not turning out that way that irritate the ownership in Boston, which is understandable of course.
So yeah, I think they'll be active.
You know, the buyout market, it always just the hype has never worked matches the substance. Remember last year It's like Terrence Ross is going to be this great signing. Everybody wants Terrence Ross, Dallas wants, the Phoenix wants them.
Terrence Ross plays like, you.
Know, like ten minutes of the postseason, like it did you never you never really get it. Plus this year, with the buyout market, there's like thirteen teams in the West that are going to try to make a play and run, you know, probably ten or eleven in the East, maybe twelve. You're not going to get a robust buyout market when you have that many teams that could be
competing for a playoff or a play in spot. So I think their focus is going to be more on the trade market to try to get one more guy that is playable in the postseason, not somebody that can give them regular season minutes.
They've got those guys.
They can play you know, Deli Blanton, they can play Oh Shape or Set. You can play Sam House, you can play Peyton Pritchell. You can go into your bench for Luke Cornette for regular season minutes. Another guy that couldn't play in the playoffs last year, you can go into your bench for that. But you need a guy that you could trust for fifteen ish minutes per game in the playoffs that I think is the one piece the Celtics are missing right now.
Yeah, during the regular season. That's one of the huge benefits of having those top six guys be so damn good, is like you can take any two of them and put three league average rotation into the bench guys with them, and they're probably going to be a pretty good lineup. Because those top two are two of the top fifty or sixty players in the NBA. It's a great luxury
for this team. But to your point, you can't get away with that lineup in Game five at the Eastern Conference Finals, which is kind of the point that you're trying to make. So let me ask you this, then, if you had to pick a specific archetype of player that they would be targeting, what would it be?
Oh man, you know I would say that, well, it's twofold, right. I would want a scoring guard that can play multiple positions, that can give you more than what Peyton Pritchard is giving you right now, something like what Malcolm brog did was for them last season and before I get injured at the very end, Malcolm Brogden had a phenomenal year in Boston, so.
They need something like that.
I'm also a little concerned learned about that front court depth, because to get to the finals, you're probably going to have to go through a Milwaukee, Philadelphia, maybe even in New York, which has got great size and strength in that front court, among some of the other teams that are out there.
Al Horford in.
June, I think is going to be what thirty eight is he like, he's he's getting up there in age and porzingis you know, look, he's been excellent, but an injury here followed trouble there, and all of a sudden, you're dusting off Luke Cornett to play real minutes and and.
And that's that's a lot to ask.
To have Luke Cornette matching up with like bam Adebayo in real minutes or against any one of the three headed big man monster in Milwaukee with Giannis, Bobby Portis and Brook Lopez. That to me is something that's concerned. Look, the Celtics share that concern. I mean, it was just a couple of years ago that the Celtics were, you know,
all in on Yaka Perle. You know, when Peerle was with the Spurs like they were willing to go and give up a first round pick when Pearle was in the last year of his contract because they knew they needed frontcore depth going into the playoffs.
And that was on a team that.
Still had Grant Williams and had more depth than younger depth, and Rob Williams was still there. So, you know, one of those two things I think should be the part. They're good on the wing. You know, Tatum and Brown gonna play thirty eight minutes a night and they can find you can deal with any lack of depth on the bench there, but upfront, muscle upfront, a scoring guard in the backcourt.
Those are the two things I'd look at.
Yeah, I think I agree with you on both counts. Like one of the beautiful things about Derek White and Drew Holidays they both can functionally operate as wings as well because of what they can do in terms of their strength for Drew Holliday and length for Derek White. I think, yeah, like a reliable version of that Pritchard archetype.
And then it's so hard to even tell what the center market's gonna look like this year at the deadline, just because you haven't heard too many names thrown out there, a Yakapurnle. It could be one of the guys that's available again, and we'll have to see zooming out a little bit as we look at the big picture. Where do you like? So I have like an inner circle group of contenders seven teams for me, which basically Denver, Boston, Lakers, Bucks, the Timberwolf Sons, and then I still kind of like
just dangling on by a thread. I have the Warriors just because if they make the right trade you could put you know, like if they got Siakam or something like that, you'd be like, you have to take them seriously. So, where what does your top tier of contenders look like right now? And where do you have to sell?
Oh, they're in that top tier. I mean, if you're going to make an elite tier, you'd probably put Denver from the West in that group, and then Milwaukee and Boston. Look, I'm a huge fan of what Philadelphia is doing, but I'm gonna need to see more of that in the playoffs. They're right there and like cut below in terms of finals teams that i'd trust, But you know those you know,
Boston's right there, you know in that mix. You know, Milwaukee's still very much a work in progress, but that's the kind of team I think is going to get better, you know, as Chris Middleton gets more time and more reps, As you know, Damian Lillard gets more and more comfortable in that offense, as he and Giannis get better and more proficient on the pick and roll. So I would still put Milwaukee in that tier out West. To me,
it's only Denver right now. I mean the Clippers the last twelve games or nine and three, so I'm keeping my eye on them.
You know, how they play. They've been top five in.
Defensive efficiency during these last twelve games. So while the offense in LA is sorting itself out, the Clippers right now are playing great defense, especially on the wings. So they're a team I'm keep an eye on. But for right now, it's kind of Denver and everybody else in the Western Conference.
Let's see men on the Bucks for a second. I thought that Pacers game was really concerning just from the standpoint of like they didn't even make Caliburton feel uncomfortable. And I tend to think that the point of attack stuff that we talked about before the season with them,
we might have underslt that a little bit. And I didn't even like particularly the way the Celtics Bucks matchup looked like a few What was that about a month ago where it just was so obvious that Boston can make Dame work so much harder than Damon Maleik could
make the Boston guards work. And I'm I'm wondering because like I've actually so I have I'm with you in the sense that I have Denver and Boston in my tier of like seven, I have Denver and Boston is like the clear top two, and then like a small gap. And then I actually after last week put the Lakers above the Bucks just because I think that physically the Bucks have some major issues on the perimeter that are going to be a problem down the line. Are you am I.
Overplaying that a little bit in your opinion, or because I mean I like Malik Beasley. I don't know if Malik Beasley is a starting two guard on a finals team and I worry.
About how much they're playing him.
I worry about Middleton holding up, you know, over the the course of a season, because he's really struggled with that over the last couple of years. That Pacers loss was concerning, no question about it, especially when you have got you know, a player like Bobby port Is blowing up a little bit in the locker room, you know afterwards and pointing the finger in part at Adrian Griffin. And Adrian Griffin to me is a wild card and all this. I mean, we spent all last year talking
about Joe Miszula. You know, what kind of factor is he going to be in the Celtics post's success. Well, well, you know, twenty ish games in you have some of the same questions about Adrian Griffin. And I love Griff as an assistant coach. I love that he got the opportunity to be the head coach. But you know how the Sea, how the preseason started with Terry Stotts kind of getting broomed out of there pretty early. That was a concern for me because Terry Stotts was like the
offensive czar of that team. You've watched this, They've changed their defenses up a few times, you know, you know, on the fly, they went from you know, doing kind of that trapping pressure defense to going back that Budenolzer esque dropped coverage. So they're kind of you know, experimenting, they're a work in progress right now.
So, yeah, there are.
Some some legitimate concerns about Milwaukee. I just maybe it's blind faith that I'm putting in like Yiannis to figure it out, Dame, who's still electric, to figure it out that front court, to be enough of a deterrent at the rim offensively to overcome the obvious defensive problems that they have on the perimeter. Maybe I'm putting too much blind faith in some of the marquee guys on the roster, but I just believe when it comes to, you know, April and May, this team's gonna be right.
Yeah, it's tough because the other thing is Dame's not playing as well as he's capable of. He's like he's he had another horrible shooting night last night. He's like a healthy he's a healthy five percent in effective field goal percentage, down from what he was last year. I think there you saw a little bit at the end of the Pacers game too, like some like who's who should run the show here kind of thing going on where they're all kind of looking at each other and
they don't know what to do. So I definitely think some of that stuff's gonna get worked out. But I feel the same way about the Bucks that I do with the Lakers, which is like, like, yeah, Moleik Beasley shooting the shit out of the ball this year, Like whatever the Laker curse was, forget about that. Like he's making shots, all this stuff is great, but it's like, can he be the starting to on a championship team?
Same thing with the Lakers, it's like, oh, Cam Reddish like career resuscitation, excellent point of attack defense, But it's like like I just think of a Western Conference Finals game and I just think of Michael Porter Junior completely ignoring Cam Reddish in the corner and basically just wrecking havoc as a six to ten athlete around the rim,
and like that being a problem. And so for both of those teams, I view them as like, if they make the right deal at the deadline and shore up that specific position to a better version of that player, I put them on the same tier with Boston and Denver. But until that point, it's just too much of a question mark, what did you are you? Are you buying
the Minnesota Timberwolves at all? They're the best team in the league to this point, but they're about to play just an absolutely brutal month of basketball, So who knows what it'll look like when we get into a month from now. But like, they've demonstrated a lot of high end potential this year. Are you buying them or do you think it's feth fools?
You're right about the schedule, what's it? Fifteen straight games now against teams with a five hundred record or better coming up on that.
Schedule, and most of them on the road too.
So we are going to learn a lot about Minnesota over this next month. I want to buy Minnesota, like I really do, because, like Mike Conley is one of the most likable guys in the NBA, and I love the surge he's having this year. Anthony Edwards is one of those guys that talks the talk and walks the walk, or at least he's doing it in the first half of this season. I love their versatility that they have defensively with Edwards and Jaden McDaniels and some of those guys.
And look, I love that Rudy Gobert and Karl Anthony Towns have found a way to make it work. They've had ten games this season where both of these guys have had double doubles. That's more than any duo has had in the same game during during this season.
So there's promising signs.
But you know, one thing a coach said to me before, really right around the time that Gobert got traded, it was reiterated to me before the start of this season, is that at some point Chris Finch may be faced with a decision where his best playoff lineup, his best closing playoff lineup will probably be one where either Carl Towns or Rudy Gobert is on the floor and not both. And does Chris Finch have it in him to sit like a thirty plus million dollar player on the bench
for the final six minutes of that game? And look, I think Chris Finch has done an incredible job because I was one of the people that were like wondering would Tim Conley fire him at the end of last season? Comes back this year. It has really been a big part of their success. But I still need to see that.
I still need to see if these two guys Towns and Gobert can play together in late game situations not be exploited by smart teams that have to only have to drill down on them for one series, So it's kind of a punt on that question. But like I want, I want to believe in Minnesota because I love the story, I love the way they've revived, you know, this this team and this franchise after just a terrible season last year.
But I still need to see more from the gobear Towns front court before I make any conclusions.
Yeah, it's it's matchup specific because like they're to me, they're very similar to the Lakers in the sense that, like they have this incredible combination of like excellent rimp protector, excellent point of attack defenders, which was weird because we didn't expect that with the Lakers. This year, just camerd has kind of appeared out of nowhere and kind of shored up that. And then the lineup configuration piece going away from two skill guards to one skill guard helped
a lot. But like there, it's a similar configuration there. The difference is is there will be teams at the top of the league that will view Mike Conley and Carl Toowns's entry points and start to really find ways to exploit that. And so I am curious in the
big picture, I kind of view them. I know this sounds outrageous to say, because they've been a better regular season team to this point, but I just view them as a lesser version of the Lakers, which is like will their half court offense be able to and from a lineup construction standpoint, will they be able to put together groups of five players that they trust on both ends of the floor enough and will they be able to execute in the half court? And it's just a
big question mark for me. I definitely have them in my in like my inner circle of contenders. I just have them further down there. Fifth twice for me, I would say, one, go ahead.
The team we haven't talked about, and I'm gonna go out to see him next week. Like where do we slot Oklahoma City right now? Because like what they're just awesome, Like they have been awesome for almost the entire season. Jay Guilders Alexander is like an automatic thirty every single night. Chet Holmgren, they needed him to be a strong number two, and that's exactly what he's been. They've got a bunch
of guys out there that can defend multiple positions. They're another one of those teams top ten I think in offensive and defense efficiency net rating, Like, you try to find flaws with this team and the only one that you can come up with really is that they're really young and maybe not ready for that type of moment.
I mean, Cason Wallace comes in.
Nobody thought Cason Walls could shoot this level he has, and he's defending.
He's another guy that can defend with this group.
I mean, I don't know way to put them right now, because they've got a top five record in the NBA, they're playing great basketball. They only seem to lose to teams that are like on their level or better. I'm starting to wonder when we have to take Ogloma City seriously.
We do have to take them seriously. I view them as like a serious upset threat, specifically for certain types of matchups because, like the youth thing that you mentioned is important, and that's obviously something you have to factor in the postseason. Just everything about NBA history tells us
young teams don't win. That's just you know, even when we look at some of the younger teams that have had success, like this Thunder with Kevin Durant, there were veterans on that roster, like Hendrick Perkins and Derek Fisher as you know. So like it's a little different. This is this roster does not have a veteran like they
literally don't you know, it's all young kids now. From a basketball standpoint, the big thing is they're just really small on the front line and they can't defensive rebound and so to me, to me, it really comes down to matchup specifics stuff. So like, for instance, they are one of the best perimeter defense teams in the league.
So like if they ran into like a Golden State or like a Phoenix where they're not going to be as bothered on the front line by some of the mismatches there, I could see them upsetting a team, but I'd give them like almost no chance to beat Minnesota, Denver or the Lakers because of just the front you know what I mean.
And do they do something about that this year?
Like that's the question I'm going to try to drill down on in the next couple of Like they've got all these assets, they can't use, all these draft picks, but they know that they they probably can't pay all these guys because you knowually the cost is going to become prohibitive, Like yeah, I remember, you know Sam Presti, who's you know, preseason press conferences I just record for hilarious sake because they're like an hour and a half long, and he uses all these metaphors that take, you know,
a long time to kind of interpret. But it's like you've got all these pieces like do you go out and get somebody like you?
Do you again? I don't know who that is at this point.
The guys that are available that we know of right now are more like wing defenders and that's not really what Oklahoma City needs to your point at the moment.
But like, is this a team that that makes a big play?
I mean because even though like they're young, as I mentioned, you know, bottom four in terms of UH age, but Shay's not young, like lou Dort's not young. Like they're young, you know chronologically we've been around for a while and they look ready to do something there Like I don't know, I mean that that's a team that, you know, if it wanted to get aggressive, you know, it might get to the trade deadline and realize is a good time to do that?
Yeah. Well, because Josh Giddy, beyond the scandal, he just
hasn't been playing very well. Specifically, his on ball stuff hasn't been very good, and there's teams are really starting to ignore him off the ball as well, given in the whole Jared Vanderbilt treatment, you know, And so I think, I think, like, when I look at the idealized version of the team, it's Dort and Jalen Williams slotted up to the two three rather than the three four, And so I almost look at it as at it as like Shay Dort, Jalen a big forward to be named
later and then Chet and to me like the team that i'd call. And it's gonna be really hard because Danny Ainge is gonna be like, I'll take all of the picks. But like, but like I'd be going after Laurie marking in because if you could get him, if you could get him, if you make a godfather offer there, and like and you're basically like, I get to put Shae with Laurie, with Chet with Jalen Williams and and Lou Dort. Now we're talking about a top tier contenderness. I'm with you.
I think, Oh, I kind of I kind of like he's experienced.
At this point than lowery probably is.
And he yeah, exactly like you could probably get him for Wow, that's actually that's I.
Think he's the guy that I liked that.
I think he'd be first to go in Utah once they start kind of picking this thing apart. I mean, there'll be an appetite for him because he's, you know, a six ' ten, six eleven forward center that could shoot the ball and has that experience. But again, Oklahoma City can outbid pretty much everyone for anything. Uh, that that'd be a guy keep an eye.
On, Yeah, and specifically slotting him next to a Rimp protector like Walker Kessler, like a Chet Holmgred. I mean, that's another guy'd even be looking at for Indy to put next to Miles Turner. That's super interesting. I'm gonna keep it, Kelly Olinik. That's that's that's interesting. All right.
Before we get you out of here today really quickly, what were your thoughts in major takeaways from n season tournament just like the whole the whole like experience, and then did you learn anything from the basketball in gen role.
I loved it.
If for no other reason, then I cared more about specific November December basketball games this year than I did last year. Now, I know it's a lot more complicated than that. You know, the in season tournament acolytes will say, the ratings are up, the attendance is up, everything, every metric you could.
Want is up.
But I'm kind of I kind of lean towards that side of it. All the skeptics will say, yeah, it's up, but how much.
The nb have to pay for it? Right?
Like, you know, with all that the league put into it in terms of actual cash marketing, I mean, Michael imperially commercials, like.
Can you imagine how much those floors were incredible? Those floors regeously.
It's it's a lot, it's a lot of money.
So the NBA has invested a lot of cash into it, and I understand why, like they're going to go to someone this offseason and say we're going to sell the is t a la carte and you, and it's another way to create revenue for But I would say it has been a success because, yes, the ratings were up.
Somebody from the NBA sent me a stat where it's like, during in season tournament games, the quote unquote star players played in ninety percent of them or something like that, So they got got they got what they wanted, They got star players playing in what would have otherwise been inconsequential NBA regular season game. So I think to that
end it's a success. You would it be the same next year without all the marketing that's behind it, without all the promotion that's behind it, without all the commercializing that's behind it. I don't know the answer to that question, but I don't know how you can sit there and say anyone can sit there and say it's been any kind of flop or a failure. Maybe it's a bit of a lost leader for the NBA because of my
much of money they had to spend. But overall it generated interest in early season regular season games, which when I talked to Adam Silver, when I talked to Evan Wash, when I talk to people inside the NBA about the ultimate goal of the n season tournament that is often at the top of the list, off it accomplished that. I think it accomplished what it set out to overall.
Yeah, I saw Ethan Strauss write a piece the other day talking about how people don't realize how much too flop it was. He's not wrong. The one thing I would say, though, is like Rome wasn't built in a day. For lack of a better term, like, this is the kind of thing that takes some momentum. I'll give you an example. There were i want to say, three teams that went three to one in pool play games and
did not get into the to the knockout round. Point being like, you know what, I'm kind of excited for
next year. I think that that was a good indicator of the fact that like, even the four pool play games are basically single elimination, like they're like, it kind of adds these Like so for all these teams, they're six to seven single elimination style games in November and December, that adds a great deal of interest, and like in general, like Lebron winning and wanting to win it as bad as he did, I think that helps for the cachet of it all. And like, I think there's a version
of this we're ten years from now. It is a type of tournament that is putting up, you know, a half of what you would expect from playoff games. I think it's like one of those things where it's way too soon to look at it as a success or failure in the big picture. But I'll tell you as a basketball fan, I loved it. I thought it was fun.
They're obviously going to be changes, like this was always an organic thing that was going to grow and evolve. I can tell you that as we sit here recording this on Tuesday, there are meetings happening in the league.
Office about how to evolve it.
Autopsy is being done. Post mortem's being done about the n season tournament. Like one suggestion I would make right up the bat. Don't hold the semifinals at two pm Local on a Thursday.
Like that, Like I remember texting League of Fish. I understand why the league did it.
Because they want to do it on one day and you could do it or like, but holding it at two pm on Thursday in an arena that was didn't seem full to me, Like I wasn't there but didn't There was no energy in that building at all for Pacers against Bucks. That's something needs to be correct corrected.
Maybe you want to consider other options other than score differential, uh for you know, for the next iteration of it, for no other reason than to stop getting like Billy Donovan pissed off about teams doing things for the Bulls.
Over the course of the last month.
So like, there are certainly tweaks that are going to be made, you know, to this format, but overall it generated interest. I mean the Ethan Straus story, like I read.
It, it was good. He called it a flop. It's not a flop.
Like it's just like it might not be as successful as some people out there are trumpeting it to be, but it absolutely is not a flop. It is absolutely something that the NBA can build on. And you know that just like the play in tournament, it is here to stay.
It's here to stay. That's exactly what I was going to say, Like it's very clearly like, oh, the NBA is better with this, so let's keep tweaking it and making it work at that point, all right, Chris, I sincerely appreciate you giving us so much of your time. Did you have anything you wanted to plug before?
But if you're listening to this, make sure you subscribe to Boxing with Chris Mannix as well, which is all part of the Old Volume Sports family.
All right, thanks, buddy, I appreciate it. Thank you all for listening and for supporting the show as always. Will be back tonight to break down another jam packed Tuesday night Slate, I'll see you guys. Then the Volume Z