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Today we are going to do a deep dive series preview on a series that is going to be between two very interesting and somewhat similar teams in the Indiana Pacers and the Cleveland Cavaliers. I could think of nobody better than our favorite person who covers the calves in the league, mister Carter Rodriguez. You guys might recognize him.
He's been on the show a few times before. Very busy man this time year, as are all of us, and he was kind enough to donate some of his time to help us get a little bit more familiar with this matchup. Carter, First of all, how you doing man?
Doing good? I love coming on here. I think you do such a good job covering I know our our listeners. You know there are national guys who get on on the list so to speak, that people that they get grumpy with you are luckily in the good graces of many of our of our of our listeners for your coverage of the team. So I've always appreciated your perspective on hoops.
Glad to be on.
I really appreciate that. I'm glad to hear that we're having some support over at the Chase Down. You guys have done amazing work over the years. It's been fun to watch your guys' pod grow. So just kind of big picture, I've been talking about this on my show, like I think that there are some similarities between the Pacers and the Calves in a league that we have so many different types of styles. You've watched these like
slow down, methodical, big and strong teams. You see these like matchup attacking, high pick and role heliocentric style teams. You've got these very driven, kick oriented, spacing oriented teams like Boston, and then we've got these like speed equal opportunity type of teams. And what I found fascinating is you have some similarities in the way that both of these teams like to pressure the ball and they like to try to force turnovers. And get out in transition.
Both of these teams can struggle a little bit with defensive rebounding because they have some perimeter size shortcomings or interior strength kind of shortcomings. From time to time. Both teams are very much like everyone's free. Like, you're going to see Max Struce look to put the ball on the floor and make plays or take aggressive catch and
shoot shots. You're going to see you know, Aaron Nesmith, you know, rip through a close out and pull back dribble and take a tough off the dribble jump shot in the mid range. You're going to see everybody on both teams look to be aggressive. It's very equal opportunity. A lot of games where you look at the box score and there's six dudes in double figures for both of these teams. So I think that there is a lot of similarities between these two teams. Has this been
something that you've noticed throughout this season? If you what has been like your like fan perspective as a team in the Eastern Conference with legitimate championship aspirations watching the Pacers from Afar, Well, I just.
Think they're I think they're a really really good team. I think I'm probably higher on this Pacers team than most of my peers in the Cavs community. I just I was in on them to start the year. My my, my beloved co host, Justin Rohan was much much lower on them.
They finally won him over.
You know, I just think I think they I think much like this Cavs offense, especially this year, there's kind of been you know, the offenses can be so electric and so exciting that sometimes it belies some of the ability on the other end of the floor for both of these teams, you know, the ability to pressure the ball, the ability to play big. You know, this is another two big team.
Uh.
You know, I got to feel really good about my my Cavaliers being trendsetters with all these two big land ups popping up all over the all over the league. But like, you know, I just think they can play a lot of defensive styles. You know, they despite having you know, a perceived week we clink at the top of the chain and you know, Darius and and tyresee defensively.
You know, I do think there are real differences. You know, I think in terms of perimeter shot creation, Indy is just not you know, they don't got a Donovan Mitchell, you know, like Haliburton can go through stretches of that, but I don't think that's like his favorite way to play. And like I think like they lean a little more egalitarian than the Calves in that sense, like you know, when Robert meets the Road, it's gonna be a lot
of Donovan Mitchell for the Calves. And similarly on the other side of the floor, I don't think the Calves have a blender in the post like Pascal Siakam. So you know, I do think like there are similarities in the build, especially like in how these teams have kind of come up small market, mostly homegrown, mostly you know, organically built or you know, really smartly built piece by piece as opposed to like one cataclysmic sea change type
of you know, a headline grabbing move. But I do think there are different in ways that either team I think is actually gonna have a hard time matching each other. Like I I the joke I've kind of keep making after two, you know, relative laugh for a series in the first round that that ridiculous comeback last night nonwithstanding, is that is that I kind of feel like both teams are going to be shell shocked in the first quarter.
On offense, We're.
Like, wait, you you can do something to make our our offense harder, because just neither team really had any resistance. I mean, Andy was assisting on like seventy six percent of their field goals at one point. It was like just an outrageous like twelve fourteen percent higher than number two. In the playoffs, the Calves obviously posted the best offensive series in the history of the sport by offensive rating
against Miami. I do think both these teams are like, oh, wait, okay, this is actually what playoff hoops was supposed to be.
Yeah, you know, there are these obvious differences. I'm glad you pointed out the Mitchell Siakam piece because there is like a certain amount of Tyrese Haliburton through his high level playmaking and Darius Garland through his just relentless dribble penetration will start the engine, so to speak, for both
of these teams in the half court. But the Pacers have like this low post matchup attacking option that they can go to, and you also see like a two man game element with him in Tyrese Haliburton, and then with the Calves you have this as we've seen, particularly in the two Celtics wins that they had this year, Like in Crunch Time, they have a guy that can pick on a matchup and just create his own shot over and over and over again from the perimeter, which
Tires can do. But it's as you mentioned, it's a lot more of like he likes to dribble, drive against switches and either kick to shooters or try to finish around the rim. It's not necessarily a mix it up, high level, over the top shot making type of approach. I love the part that you said earlier, just talking about how both of these teams are gonna kind of have like a certain amount of success against each other. Like there's certainly a challenge in the sense that Cleveland
and Indiana present more resistance defensively than each other. But I do think both of these teams will score on
each other. I think that there's a rhythm element to where, like I think we will see points in this series where it's like, WHOA, the Pacers are in a really good groove right now, or oh, the Calves are in a really good groove right now, manifest in different ways, Like the Calves are very much a higher volume three point shooting team that has multiple dudes on the floor that will take contested threes off the catch.
When they're there.
Max Strews and DeAndre Hunter's tested three point shooting in the Heat series was like eye popping, like it was amazing. Whereas the Pacers don't have as many guys who will shoot off the catch when they're being chased off the line. It's much more of like a close out attacking. They'll take a little bit more in the mid range off the ball. The Calves will take mid range and pick and roll from their main guys. But you'll see, like you know, guys driving closeouts and taken in the mid range.
So it'll manifest in different ways. But I do think both teams will be able to score on each other. You look like you were about to say something. Did you want to jump in Yeah, I'm just gonna say yeah.
I think, you know, I think on both sides of the ball, it's just going to be a lot. I think it's it's going to be harder work for these defenses too. Again, these seems are just better than who they played in the first round, So, like I know, it's like not a crazy it's a relatively obvious statement
if you pull the camera back enough. But like, you know, I think for the Cavs, you know, one thing that I'm really keeping an eye on guarding the Pacers is Siakham because this is a team that under Kenny Atkinson switched.
Way, way, way way more than they did under JB. Bickerstaff.
And you can do that against the Miami Heat, even against like a Bam out of Bayo, who's obviously grown a lot as an offensive player, but like still to this day, we'll like have a favorable matchup and won't demand the ball, you know, we'll kind of fill the dunker spot and kind of wait for a duck in as opposed to like you put Sam Merrill on a
switch on Pascal Siakam. Siakam is going to find his way to the ball, He's going to get kind of the spin cycle going, he's going to draw fouls, he's going to make you send help, and then you get into rotation. I mean, Miami just could not break the Calves defensive shell. That was all four games. It was just you know, very I mean, on very very few occasions did the Calves even have to be disciplined in their rotations because.
They were not in rotation.
You know, I think I think Indy is going to be much better, uh situated to do that, primarily with Pascal, uh you know. And then it takes me to a thing that the Cabs didn't break out too much against the Heat, but they broke out a ton of the regular season, which is how often are they going to go zone? Because if there's one thing that makes post catches difficult and Matt mismatch hunting difficult, it's a it's
a good old two three zone. In one of the games the Cavs beat the Pacers earlier in the year that see I come cook them in the entire first half. He only had like three attempts in the second half because they just zoned him up and said, hey, we're not going to just let you catch it on the
block and bump bump, spin shoot. So like that schematic question is going to be really interesting to me, is are they going to go zone to try to block off the Pascal post up, you know, blender because he even kicking good shots on Mobile and Alan, you know, like he's he's job, he's a great player. He's done a nice job even against our best defenders. And if you go zone, does that open up a three point machine?
You know, as you mentioned, they're not the best contested three point shooters, but like it's a pretty good open three point generating machine. And zone you are dancing with that a little bit.
The Pacers will burn you with wide open three point shooting there with that core five man lineup, there's not really a guy in that group that if you left open, is just going to consistently miss. And like the big one is Nie Smith. Like Nie Smith working up into the mid forties just makes him an entirely different type of player than he was in the past. And the you know, the piece with Siakam like on the film. And actually, let me just i we'll start with the
Pacers on offense here in a minute. Let me quickly go through our series metrics, just so that everyone knows this is basically what happened during the regular season. There were guys in and out of the lineup NonStop. Jared Allen played in all four games, but no one else did. Andrew Nemhard and Miles Turner were the only starters to play in all four for Indie Tyres. Haliburton only played
in two games. The only game where most of the starters played against each other was their first matchup back on January twelfth. It's a very weird game. The Calves controlled the game for about two and a half quarters and then the indie bench group just beat the shit out of the Calves. And it was kind of a weird game because Ty Jerome was out, so it was like back in the Karis Lavert days, and you know, Karris Lavert not as just not as gifted as a
backup guard. The Calves completely lost control during that stretch. The Pacers brought a bunch of full court pressure too, and the Calves kind of just fell apart in that stretch. It kind of felt a lot like regular season basketball, like it was just it was one of those games.
Well, I'll say, dude, that is that remains the one thing I kind of keep looking at the Calves for in terms of, like, you know, a thing that they just have consistently demonstrated they don't love dealing with is ball pressure. You know, big physical, you know, like everyone
thinks it's long wings, It's not long wings. It is dudes who get into your chest and make a Arius and Donovan back up like they love a drop coverage, dude, Like they love They love, you know, being able to survey and use their in and out dribbles and operate in the tight spaces that the drop affords them.
They love that.
They do not like it when they're backing up, especially Darius because you know his size and athletic limitations. You know, it's hard for him if he's not turning the corner consistently. So I thought they passed a really nice test in the first round Davion. They they tried that with Davion, Mitchell, Pelo Larson, guys who tried to beat them up a little bit more like that was clearly something Spoe went to from like Game two onward didn't matter.
So like like easy.
Mode test passed gets a little bit harder when it's Niee Smith and nim Hard and McConnell, uh, you know, being nasty and physical with them.
You know.
So that's one thing I'm really keeping an eye on is the paces are going to probably pick up full court, would be my guess for big stretches of this series. I think they're going to try to hide Haliburton on Strus, on Hunter on anyone who's playing the three, and it's going to be a matter of is the pressure going to stop the Cavs offense from flowing? Didn't work for didn't work for Miami, But like the personnel is just better bam out of bio accepted in Indy.
So yeah, that January twelve game was a great example of what you're talking about. They were also playing up in passing lanes off of the ball pressure too, so like as Garland and Mitchell would try to move the ball up the floor, there was some turnovers in those sorts of situations.
Go ahead, But I do think this is interesting, Like that's where like the physical limitations of a Darius or Adonoman come in, because like if you're backpedaling, it's hard to put pace on those passes. Oh no, like it's really really hard to. You know, Like Darius, if he's going to make a cross court pass, he's not Luke
or Lebron, like he's got to step into it. So if all his momentum is going that way and he's trying to get at the opposite direction, that's where you get kind of those ducks that Indy can go pick off playing the passing lanes as aggressively as they were.
We saw Jarris Walker have some success to on the Calves guards with just some pressure and back pressure and poking away at the basketball. There was definitely some interesting stuff in that game. But then at the same time, we had another game later in the season where the Pacers played all their guys and the Calves sent a skeleton crew down to Indy and they almost beat them anyway, And a big part of that is ty Jerome is
just incredible. And when we get to Calves on offense, I want to focus on that for a minute, because there's like a level that the Calves are at right now that is even higher than they were at any point during the regular season. We did get a look at some of the ways they were defending Tyre's Halliburton, mainly just that Jared Allen wasn't coming too aggressively up to the level they were a little bit more willing
to concede pull up threes to Halliburton. Haliburton's in a really good groove right now, which is going to be the first thing that we'll get to. But metrics just for everybody. The Pacers ended up going three and one in the season series, but they had a negative net rating. They had a one ozh six offensive rating, the Calves at a one oh nine offensive rating, So the Calves actually outscored him by three point three points per one
hundred possessions in the four matchups. The Pacers did win the rebounding battle by small margin, grabbing fifty one point three percent of available rebounds, but once again, not really anything worth digging too far into there. I found that to be the case in almost all of my series previews. You're really just looking at like individual matchups, what it looks like. Oh, here's a few possessions of Siakam and Mobilely going at each other.
This is what it.
Looks like like that kind of stuff. But let's start with the Pacers on offense. And so I want to start with the idea of the Halliburton pick and roll, so it it will manifest in a bunch of different ways, a lot of him two man game with Siakam, where teams will often look to switch and attack in the post, like we talked about earlier. But I want to start with the Tyres Halliburton, Miles Turner pick and pop, which is the foundation concept of what makes the Pacers offense work.
So how do you think the Calves will go about trying to contain the tyres Haliburton pick and roll.
I think this is going to be you know, I've spent a lot of time of this appearance so far talking about the things I think Andy is really good at, because I do think it's going to be swept under
the rug. I think talking about a rude awakening going from a you know, sometimes Dame Lillard Brook Lopez pick and roll or an aj Green Brook Lopez pick and roll defensive pair, to like it's going to be Max Druce, it's gonna be Isaac Okoro, it's going to be DeAndre Hunter uh and Evan Mogle or Jared Allen, and those guys are going to close out so much better. They're going to be much They're going to feel much safer
switching the Miles Turner action. Like I I'm not sure, but if you were, if you had asked me what I thought, you know, Kenny's staff would say about uh death by Miles Turner switch post ups. I think they're pretty cool with that, you know. I just think like that is not going to be a problem for them, especially with how not strong Indie is on the offensive boards.
They were twenty ninth in the regular season. Like, if you're getting a men shot attempt from you know, a contested you know, twelve foot turnaround for Miles Turner, which is kind of his preferred type of post up anyway, Like, I think you're fine with that. I think even if you do play it straight and you hedge and recover, you know, the way Evan and Jarrett can close ground
is just so much better than Bobby Portis or Brook Lopez. Like, I think that action is like not going to be there for them as much as they wanted to be. And like I think, and frankly, if you're the Pacers, you're, in my opinion, you're kind of doing the Calves a favor by not having Siakam in that screen almost every time now, like and just kind of depending on Turner
as more of a spacer. That's kind of what I would do if I were Indy, just because I just think the Calves are really well equipped because they're not going to have Darius on Tyres, They're not going to have Donovan on Tyres. They're going to put their big, strong,
long wings on him. And like, I don't think Max can hold up against Siakam, but he can hold his ground a little bit in the switch and but against Turner, like you kind of just got to be okay with that and trust that your help is going to be good. And I think the Calves help was so good in
Miami series. Like I know Miami played a very very bad series, don't get me wrong, but like the timing was so dialed in from them that I think you can give up a short term disadvantage knowing that you're burning clock, you're eating more like if the Calves are making the pacers work into the bottom ten seconds of the shot clock, the possessions kind of already a win.
Yeah.
I think that the early the early portion of the series will see less switching. I would especially early in games.
One of the things I noticed on film is Jared Allen was very keyed on the pop. And what I mean by that is like in instead of coming up to the level where he's fully committing to basically being two on the ball and conceding the pick and pop, he's kind of making a judgment call based on how the on ball defenders doing so if the on ball defender is like fully compromised, then he'll jump over there and help. But if he sees that the on ball defenders in the position to flatten out the drive, he'll
kind of be more keyed up towards Miles Turner. To your point, though, I think that action inevitably trends towards switching and Jared Allen having to hold up on an island against Tyreus Haliburton. Now, one of the things with Tyres that made him kind of go through the spiral that he went through over the previous year between the start of last year to where he is now, was he with the hamstring just didn't quite look very explosive attacking switches on the perimeter. As we saw last night
against Giannis. There is a pretty important moment one, yeah, exactly, and it was an example of what the tug of war will look like.
I think.
I think a substantial part of the tug of war will be can Tyrese Haliburton get dribble penetration against the Cavs bigs in you know, ISO situations. But one of the things that's interesting about India is like they do not marry themselves to Tyrese Haliburton shot creation If it's not what the game calls for. And so one of the things that I think we could end up seeing, to your point, is like a lot more of Siakam action trying to get switches for Siakam to look to attack.
And then I would not be surprised. I would assume that we're gonna end up seeing Donovan Mitchell guard Nemhard and Garland end up guarding Nie Smith, because that would be my Nie Smith is a little bit less of a threat as a movement shooter, although Nie Smith has a little bit more of a bag than I think people give him credit for. But I think they'll be more comfortable hedging and recovering with Garland out of Nie
Smith action than they would out of Nemhart action. But don't be surprised if we end up seeing a little bit more of Nemhart on the ball in this series in the event that they view like they have a better opportunity to get him going. He's a good drop coverage player. He like last night, the first shot that got everything going for them, and that's you know run late in the game was him just coming off of ball screen and pulling up a three from you know
thirty feet at the top of the key. Nem Hard can play or a Nie Smith can Yeah, Nemhrd can play. I get them all confused anyway. The ultimately, though, what I see what I see happening is the Pacers, whether it's through the Siakam post up double teams, which we did see plenty of that in the regular season, where the Calves tried to double Siakam out of the post, or if it's Haliburton beating someone off the dribble, or if it's Nie Smith bringing in or Nemhard bringing in
low manhelp. I do think rotation basketball would be much more of a factor for the Calves in this series
than it was against the Heat. They will have to fly around, they will have to make plays in rotation, but that push and pull, it's all about how much you get compromised that If Jared Allen can hold up pretty well on switches, if the Calves guards can hold up pretty well on switches against Theakam so they don't have to as dramatically overhelp in those sorts of situations, those are gonna be the kinds of things that have a large impact on the quality of looks that the
Calves get that said, like, there is a flat out like shot making piece to what the Calves do, which is absolutely insane. And like, guys, they had a one thirty six offensive rating in the first round. They had a one eighteen half court offensive rating in the first round. There half court offensive rating was better than what the Boston Celtics posted overall in the offensive rating area in
the first round against a Heat last year. Yes, very different team, but with Davion Mitchell and Andrew Wiggins out there, it's a different type. There's some defenders out there that they were just consistently compromising. It's shot making Ti Jerome and Donovan Mitchell's off the dribble shot making in that first round was absurd, Max Strus and DeAndre Hunter and there over the top shot making in catch and shoot
situations was absurd. And so I think a big part of it is going to be, like, if the Calves shot making is there, there's not going to really be much at the Pacers do to stop them. So let's move to the Caves on offense. When we were talking about specific specific actions that you think the Calves will be leaning on as pet actions in the half court, what are you looking at for the Calves in the second round series.
Well, they were a lot more aggressive in picking at weak points than I thought they were going to be in that heat series. Like they've been a pretty like we just run our offense the way we run it, and we'll just keep attacking till you mess up. And that was kind of their philosophy most of the regular season, and like that still helped true, don't get me wrong, Like the machine didn't stop worrying. But they were really mean,
Like they were really mean to Tyler Hero. They and once they decided to stop being mean to Tyler Hero, they got really mean to kill el Ware and started really abusing him in space with with empty side pick and rolls.
Jared Allen has kicked his ass man such a like.
Like I keep joking because like Jared's such a sweet soul that I think people like don't don't think about it this way, and like in general, like you know, I think we can kind of flatten out that archetype of like I'm a I'm an athletic vertical rim protecting, finishing big that's my thing, you know, And I think sometimes we really flatten out that archetype and kind of assume everyone's about as good as each other, you know, because like they're all doing the same basic job, but
like you don't really see how different that job can be in terms of how effective you can be doing it until you watch like Jared just abuse Kloware, like with how he's spacing his pick and roll dives and all that fun stuff.
I want to cut you off for a second here, because this is something that that I feel victim too too. That what you're making, what the point you're trying to make, is very important, which is like people just like tie Jared Allen into the same tier as like Nick Claxton or like every other Robert Williams, Like, yeah, they're all just like the same. It's like this And by the way, I am admitting guilt here, I personally underrated Jared Allen
coming into this stretch. I viewed him as just another one of these dudes who can defend and drop, do a little bit of switching and can be a vertical spacer as he's on the role. And it's like, it's
so much more complicated than that. I watched Jared Allen kick the shit out of some really good players this year and had to head matchups, and it's the relentless rim running that was the big thing that he kept getting behind kellel Ware Like he just kept getting behind him, and that was really the problem was kelll just like kept getting into position where he was in a drop, but he still wasn't able to account for the role man, which is like, it's the whole purpose of the job
is don't let the roller behind you the worst of both worlds exactly, and so like he'll do that. Jared Allen is like the type of release valve that you get from an Isaiah Hartenstein as a short range shot maker in terms of the types of little floaters and pushots that he can make. He is an ass kicker on the glass. And then the big thing is is on defense. He has become such a gifted switch defender that it unlocks so many different things for them defensively.
And like I had to have my own little personal wake up call with Jared Allen this year where I'm like, this guy is not a league average replacement starting level center. He's in that upper tier of centers in this league. Maybe not in the same level as the guys at the top, but he's in that next tier below them, and that really is a talent piece that I think just gets consistently overrated with the Cavs. But anyway, you go back to what your YEA, Well, it's.
Because it's not a bag related an understanding of where you are in space, and it's a coordination when you catch the ball, you know, you know, being able to take a pocket pass at your knees and not break your stride on the on your dive to the rim. Like it's all these little like game within a game type of types of things for him, And like that is where I think on offense, I think the Cavs this is going.
To be a great series for the Cavs bigs.
You know, I think Siakam's taking a couple of steps back as a defender as he's gotten a little bit older. You know, he went you know, he started his career as the defender, you know, chaos agent. I think he's just a little not bad by any means, but a little worse. And like I just think Turner is going from a series where it's kind of tailor made for him, where he's just way his footspeed is just way better than Brooke and he's way more physical and just straight
up better than Bobby Portis, who's a player. I don't love, to be honest, I just don't think crazy highly of even though you know, I know he's been helpful for them and in big moments too, Like now he's going to have to not only protect the rim against you know, the relentless rim pressure of the Tiger Romes, the Dariuses and the Donovans of the world, but also not let them get behind him, to your point of, like you know, so like I wonder if they're going to try to
hedge in show and try to do that because like switching, I don't know if I don't know if switching is the best idea for them.
Don't think Turner is gonna be able to switch. I think that that's the interesting part. Like I think the Pacers actually have a little bit more playmaking talent in
my opinion in terms of like overall passing talent. But I think that the calves are going to be able to compromise the Pacers more at the point of attack because of that big issue, which is like to your point, like it's just an entirely different animal in the front court that he's dealing with in this case, it's just going from you know, Kyle Kuzma to to Evan Mobley is just an entirely different animal.
You know. Yeah, I just think I just think, like ideally, you know, I mean, I just think nim Hard Nie Smith's job is gonna it's one just gonna be really important in this series. I feel like they're probably like who I'm most keyed in on in terms of Indie's ability to keep this close. Like if they're fighting over these if they're fighting through these screens and staying connected to the back of the hip of Darius and Donovan and Tie, that is so much different than it if
they're getting wiped out. I just think the Caps are going to get a wide open look.
That's the series right there.
What you're talking about is the series because stay Van Gundhi did a really nice job of breaking this down when he was discussing the uh uh oh No, I think it was actually zach Low. I think it was Zachlo. I think I was listening to Zachlo the other day.
Did a beautiful job of explaining like why the Drew holiday trade was so damaging to the Bucks, and it was because in order to run the types of coverages that involve traditional bigs, meaning like not switching, but at the level coverages or drop coverages, things along those lines. You have to stay attached to the ball handler. You have to as soon as that piece falls off, your defense is going to get cut to pieces. Turner will
get destroyed in space. So to your point, the dynamic of the ball pressure of Kniesmith and Nemhard, how would you if you were coaching the pacers, how would you match up those two?
On Garland and Mitchell, I'm doing I'm going nim Hard on Darius because I think he is the slightly nastier, pushy er grab ear of the defenders, at least from what I watched. I won't pretend to be like, oh, hard core pacers expert year, but like I think, I think the nastier, uh more physical guy on Darius is probably the way i'd go. And Nie Smith just like, just do your job, stay and stay connected, do your best, fight,
be tough and physical. But like you know, I think Donovan also just gets the line a little better than Darius does, you know, So like the pushy grabby stuff, Donovan's got a little bit better at the at the grift game, uh than than Darius, But I mean it's gonna be I just think those guys are gonna really gonna swing the series on both ends. Like because like to your point, on the other side, I know we're talking Cavs offense, nim Hart is gonna have to go beat up Donovan or Darius.
One of those guys gonna have to do damage. That's that's an that's an important part of this too. The there there was some nem Hart spent some time on Mitchell in the regular season, and Mitchell was able to get separation against him easily. But this we've seen all
the way back since the Brunson series last year. Like there's no doubt that uh uh that Nie Smith is a little bit vulnerable to over the top shot making because he's a little bit shorter or Nemhard, I should say, Nie Smith is a bigger, better athlete, and so I actually think that makes sense to match him up with Mitchell in terms of being able to get better contests on his pull up jump shots. But again, that's gonna
be the The point you're making is important. The ball pressure matchup on both ends of the floor is going to be absolutely key, and whether it's on pacers, on offense, Nemhard being able to consistently compromise a guy like Donovan Mitchell, or if it's on the other end of the floor and it's like Mitchell keeps getting don keeps getting penetration against Nie Smith, or Garland keeps getting penetration against Nemhart.
Those are going to be the starts of all of this because when the teams get into their flow, neither team is going to be able to stop each other. Once they get into their flow, it's gonna be who can stop the team from getting into the flow as often and.
Who can crack the shell more consistently. And like, that's why I'm gonna pick the Cavs in the series, just because I think, you know, as much respect as I have for Indy, and I hope that's coming through Like I'm not this is in lip service. I think they're an awesome team. I think they're actually better than their record and better than their point differential at their best. I think Carlisle's the top three or four coach in the league. I just I just I really respect this team.
But you just look at how many ways the Calves have to poke at you. You know, they're going to play two of Darius and Darius Donovan and tie for forty eight minutes. It's a ridiculous amount of perimeter creation. And then Evan has gotten so much better as a mismatch masher, a better shooter off the dribble, a better ability to drive against you know, fellow bigs and get them on his back hip as opposed to you know
them just kind of sliding their feet with them. I just think they have more ways to make Indy send that second guy in the ball and you know, Indy, it's you know it's going to be. I think the Calves are going to live with what Indy does and switch and of just try to keep them in front of them until they absolutely can't. And I just think the Calves have more ways to.
Do that right now. Yeah, I.
When I look at the way that playoff series inevitably kind of trend as you start to figure out ways to shut down pet actions, you know, whether it's like, let's say the Calves figure out like, oh, like we can switch the turner Haliburton pick and roll boom, Like that's an advantage that we have there, Like oh, we on Siakam post ups. As long as we play the hide high side and force him towards the baseline and we double from the baseline, we can rotate out of
it relatively quickly. It does tend to degenerate into matchup attacking basketball inevitably. And at that point, who do I think is the better team at hitting tough playoff shots? And I have Donovan Mitchell, I have Max Strus and DeAndre Hunter who can hit tough, contested catch and shoot jump shots. There's a level of off the dribble shot making with Ty Jerome. We didn't get to talk too much about Garland today. Actually, I think we both agree
that we're picking I'm picking the Caves and six? Are you picking the Cabs and six?
I'm gonna go in five? But I think, oh, okay, I think it could go seven very comfortably. I mean, I'm not sure Indy can win the series. Uh that is like probably the bridge I'm not willing to cross, and well, can you know, if things go really really, if everything goes perfect Brandy everything was bad for the Cabs,
I think, and he can win the series. But like I think the range of outcomes, like if I were setting betting odds for like Calves and five cabs and six cabs and seven Indian seven, Like they'd all be like closer.
Than you'd think from adds perspective.
So I think is not as slight as much as I just think it's easier to close out of series at home than on the road.
The the there's I was just really the the backup guard dynamic two between ty Drome and t J McConnell's another kind of interesting similarity between the two teams that all so manifests in a different way because TJ is just this TJ McConnell blows me away with his ability to beat people off the dribble. It's amazing, Like he.
Just hosts people off the dribble all day.
Look but tied to But Tie does it a little bit more methodically and does it a lot with like body position and leverage and it. But Ti Jerme, I think is a substantially better over the top shot maker. But are you worried at all about the Darius Garland toe injury? What are you hearing on that front? Like, how are you feeling about that particular situation. I'm about two minutes.
Yeah, I'm no reporter, so you know, I only have what's available in front of me. You know, publicly, I'm going to be worried about it until I see him play and be good because that toe it. You know, as you know you were a hooper, Like toes are important. They're how you balance their how you push start and stop. And like Darius is a start and stop player, he is not a straight line. Let me just get ahead of steam and I'll be good type of player.
You know.
I think with the back last year seizing up literally every every three minutes of game action, you could really see how much the inability to stop and start made his game flat and lose its flavor, you know. And you know the toe isn't as important as a back, but it's pretty darn important.
Uh and uh.
And you know he's gonna have ten full days off between games. You know, you can't ask for much better than that at this point of the year. So I think I think we'll know how serious the toe injury is when we see if he plays or not. If he's out in a game one, then I'm gonna be like pretty nervous. That's seriously concern. However, I still think the Calves can and should win the series even if he only plays in half the games.
Yeah, the starts off quickness pieces everything, Like I've I've dealt with like different types of toe injuries over the years, And the big thing is when you're when you're going full speed and you need to stop, your foot literally rams into the front of your shoe and it's just super, super uncomfortable. But we'll be keeping an eye on that. I'm picking the Calves and six. If I just really quickly for Pacers fans, if I was making the case for how you'd win the series, this is how it
would look. A big part of the Calves attack is forcing turnovers and getting out in transition. Tyre's Haliburton doesn't turn the ball over. Tyres is really good at punishing help and recover types of sequences. He's a relentless advantage attacker, meaning like he just finds where the help is at any point in time and is going to make the
requisite kickout passes. The Pacers have a rhythm piece to their game on offense that can catch a lot of momentum and get really hot for extended stretches, and they do have the ball pressure piece to where they could potentially play the Calves into bad stretches, and so I do think even with the Calves winning the series, there will be stretches of this series where the Pacers go on extended runs or win games. I think that they
have advantages in that regard. So if they can just somehow maintain that momentum over the course of the series, there's absolutely a version of this where they can win, especially if Tyre's Haliburton is playing at the level that he was playing. That said, I think the Calves are a substantially better defensive team on the front line, and I think they are a more versatile defensive team on the front line, which gives them a lot of flexibility
with adjustments over the course of the series. And then that over the top shot making piece is just such a ceiling razor when you get into some of these slow down clutch situations at the end of games, Carter, I know you need to go. Why don't you just quick tell everybody where your work is so that we can send them that way and then we'll get you out of here.
All right.
Yeah, you can follow a Chase Down pod on any social media platforms.
If you are if you are.
If you are a video pod guy, go Calves YouTube channels where we're hosted. Can I end this pod with a question for you? Though, I can hijack real quick and let it and then it on this. If the Calves sweep this series, if they just or like win, you know, in a dominant fashion, maybe it's not sweet, but it's a Calves and five and four and three of the four wins. It's just like a oh, the
Calves are winning this game kind of thing. Will that meaningfully change how you feel about a Boston series in the next round.
Dude, I'm so close to picking Cleveland it's not even funny. There's the big thing is is that I think Jason Tatum is playing at an insanely high level, and then he's substantially better than he was last year in the postseason. I think the rest of the team is not. I think the rest of the team is I think the rest of the team is more banged up. I think they have several shooters that are really shaky right now
in their confidence and clean catch and shoot situations. I think that there is a version of that series where Tatum just becomes too much to handle. Of course, and I definitely am waiting to see how the second round
plays out. But if the Calves just beat the shit out of the Pacers and their offense still looks completely unguardable, the vision I can't get out of my head is the way that the Calves just chewed up and spit out the Celtics and the Blender ever since they dropped down twenty in the first quarter of that game in Boston, where like there is like a relentless PCE and the Blender so to speak, that really can cause the Celtics
defense some problems. And so I think this Cavs team is reaching a special level on offense and I'm very, very close, but I will wait to see what happens in the second round series.
One last thing st out of the season for me that never gets discussed. It was a justin find What do you think the net rating was for the Boston Celtics starters in the regular season three hundred and fifty seven minutes.
So this is Porzingis at center, Horford off.
Yeah, Porzengis, Drew Brown, Tatum White. I would assume plus ten or so your row point zero in over three hundred minutes, dead even on the season. Wow, wows under it was actually.
Negative for most of the season.
They had a late run that pushed them to a net neutral Wow it under just wow, justin pulled it. I couldn't believe it wasn't like a big like five alarm fire.
Dude.
Celtics fans are getting sick of Porzingis. I don't know if you've seen. I've noticed they think he no showed the first round. So that's a that's a whole thing as well. But Ay, we really appreciate you making the time. I know you're close because I just had a couple of good ones to throw at you know you're fine, Carter I, sincerely, I appreciate you taking the time to
join us today. Again, everybody, go follow and support the Chase Down podcast will be covering every game in the second round series here at OOPS tonight, as always been. Sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We will see you later tonight live after Lakers Wolves.
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