Episode 93: Westbrook Check-In With Roosh Williams

in Portland. We were joined by Ruche, our friend from Rockets Twitter, someone who's been through the Russell Westbrook experience the same way that we all have and provides a really unique perspective, and we touch base with him to see what he thinks about what he's seen so far and what we think about what we've seen so far with Westbrook and talk about what could be potentially the good version of this in the long run, and Russ fitting in and helping the Lakers raise their ceiling. I

thought it was a really interesting discussion. Thank you guys so much for supporting us. Enjoy the show, and we will have a postgame show back on Monday after the game with the Hornets. All right, I think a rouge. Are you there? Yes, I am, dude. I I love hearing these conversations because I've been through it and it's crazy. It's just crazy to hear y'all sounding literally the exact

same way the Rockets fans felt. I'll say this, there's gonna be a point when Lebron comes back where things go up and y'all will probably hit a stretch where it looks like it's really working, because that's the cycle, right, Russ always starts off, you know, just kind of I don't know, playing pretty much awful. Right even at Washington started off awful and then it picked up and you know, for they rode this stretch where it was like, oh hey,

this is working. Even in Houston, they had to trade capella and and spread things out to give him the space to work. But it started working, and then you know, it inevitably dips again and just kind of crashes back and regresses back to the mean. But it's crazy, man, I mean he I think Jason nailed it on the head. There's no finesse to his game. He used to be a better jump shooter. He no longer gets that same lift,

so it's really a crapshoot um. And man, the turnovers I think are just killers, because he'll have these nights where he goes like tonight one of thirteen eight points whatever it was, six turnovers, and then he'll come back and we'll have one of those nights where he scores like twenty seven points on twenty two shots. But the downside of that is even when he's at his best,

it's still a game where he's barely being efficient. Right, And I don't mean to sound all nerdy and all that, but like at the end of the day, with the volume of shots he's taking and the sheer amount of possessions that are in Russell Westbrook's hands, you need him to be efficient. And for the most party is not. The only fixer is Lebron. I mean, if anyone's listening,

they should go listen to the pot. I did rage with you and stay of the Lakers, you know a few months ago or whatever it was kind of break you down like that, the highs and the lows, Like he's gonna he's going to have those moments where he wows you and then overall his lack of shooting ability and his the killer for me, and what it seems like is killing Lakers fans is that he won't adjust. He just is what he is and you have to

deal with it. And oftentimes it feels like you're trying to fit whatever the phrases, right, You're trying to fit like a square peg into a roundhole. Like it just doesn't work, you know. So I'm really curious to hear your opinion on the potential upside here because so I do think that they're First of all, let's take one thing, for for a certain year, Russ isn't going anywhere. He's going to be a Laker at least for the rest of the season. There's just no conceivable way that they

get off of him. So this is what this team is going to be, for better or worse, unless he gets hurt, which we don't want. So, uh, taking that, assuming that, and then also acknowledging the small ways he has changed, so for it just small ways. So for instance, he uh if with Lebron on the floor only attempts about twelve shots for thirty six minutes, and that go is up to like twenty shots for thirty six minutes

when Lebron's off the floor. So he does temper back some of his aggression we saw in the Houston game, in the Cleveland game in particular, that he's more willing

to um see the offense to Lebron and crunch time. Um, So I guess my question for you is this, if he does pull back in all those ways that I just described when the team is healthy, and he is most likely mostly kind of funneled and focused against bench players and or the third best defender on any given line up, and operating in space, meaning you know, whether it's through Frank getting the acts or if Frank finally just wises up and stops playing centers, but he's in

operating in space, operating against weaker defenders. Do you think there's a scenario where potentially it could work better because he's not going to be relied on as much in the playoffs as he was in Houston and in Washington in Oklahoma City. I mean, as you've heard you say many times, I continue to believe that Lebron James is

good enough to shore up any issues. So yes, I mean there is a world where you know, Lebron's playing eighties playing and Russ is like that third option, and it works out kind of as as people had envisioned when when the trade was made. The problem is that he's so high octane that reducing him to a third

option doesn't really work the way you'd want. I mean, I think ideally you'd want your third option to be some type of floor spread or some type of someone that can catch and shoot at the very least and be efficient. But his possessions are isolations where he's just dribbling and driving, and sometimes we'll get a match up where he's got like a smaller guard on him or something, and he can just kind of abuse that in spam

it and go go to it over and over. But they his possessions essentially feel like post ups in the modern day age where you know, if you get the bucket,

it feels great. But if you go a couple of possessions in a row, or if you go three out of like five possessions, for example, where he gets to this spot just doesn't make the shot and and misses it, it feels like a wasted possession that killed chemistry, killed rhythm, killed time, and like you know, it's like everyone's sitting there watching Russ and then he misses it and you just go go get back on defense. It's kind of

like a killer in in multiple ways. So I guess the long short of it is, yes, there is a world where that's possible. It's all going to hinge on Lebron kind of setting things and making them all fall into place. Um, the difficulty is that you know what value is Russ if he's just kind of shooting ten or twelve shots a game, because chances alreadys gonna make four of them, you know what I mean? Right? For sure?

I thought like we saw a little bit of that, Like I remember when we played the Calves at home, Uh, you only shot thirteen times, he made eight of them, and I thought that was maybe the kind of formula we'd go to. And then we played your guys Houston Rocket teams, which was a huge like up and down pace where no one played defense really, and I thought he played okay and that in those games. But like my question you is, like can the Russ and a

D lineups? Like I understand Ron's gonna fix a lot, but like Ken Russ, because we talked about this in the pod we did over the summer. It's actually like episode I think seventy two or something like that if

you want to go listen to that. But a lot of those things came true, and we talked about how here he would have a D as the guy to kind of throw the lab up to, which would be different in those Houston teams because you guys traded Capella from Kendall's Russ and a D lineups kind of build if it's just like him, a D and three shooters, do you think, like, do you think that's something that can be successful that they can build with, because I

felt like that's something they found before Lebron went out and then then went back to these like two big lineups because you saw then play against your guys team twice, so you kind of got a close look at that. Do you think that's something they can kind of build off as well as we go up here? I mean, I think so. I think the theme is inconsistency because there's gonna be games like tonight right where obviously a

D was out, so it's a little bit different. But even when a D was in there, um and Lebron was out right, like you lost, Okay, See for example, there's gonna be moments where it works and you know, Russ and a D are clicking, he's finding his rhythm, you know, scoring. But again, even when he's on, it's like it's something like twenty seven points, like like those are your best nights and that's not exactly what you're looking for. Um. In addition to that, he doesn't get

he didn't get foul love. Um. So again if he's missing his shots, like, there's not much redemption on the other end. When he was in Houston, the bench units, the rust lead bench units were awful. Um, And I don't think they'll be that in l A. I think having a D he helps significantly. But I think it's just gonna be off and on. You know, it's gonna be nights like tonight or okay, see where you lose

the game. Then there's gonna be those nights where he gives you like some crazy thirteen on you know, like fifteen of twenty or something some crazy like that. Um, And you know, you start talking yourself back into it, and then he just kind of turns around and shows you again that he's the inconsistent version of himself. The other thing is and this is the thing that never goes away. Um. He's just bad on defense, man. His awareness is not there on defense too often. He falls

like he he becomes. He creates holes in a team defensive scheme because he's either playing the passing lane. Someone's just hitting the hundred button over and over. He's either playing a passing lane, you know, over playing the passing lane, or he's taking his individual assignment way too seriously to the detriment of the team scheme. He just there's just

too many lapses throughout. And so even when you're getting his best version of offense, which again it's gonna happen, it's not like he's just gonna be awful every night. There's gonna be nice where he goes, you know, psycho and reminds you that he is Russell Westbrook. So that

definitely happens. And he tends to get on a streak right Like, he'll do it for two or three weeks in a row and you'll be like, oh, this is crazy, and then all of a sudden it just kind of flips on its head out of nowhere and you have to deal with the peaks and the valleys. But but yeah, he just doesn't defend at the level that like sustains you know, when I've always said he's very talented. He puts up the numbers, but he just doesn't play a

winning brand of basketball. And I think that's just true kind of on every aspect. Offensively, the way he gets his points, uh, the way that he just puts his head down and drives and and you know, think second and acts first and just kind of passes it wherever he thinks the ball should go. No, no method to the madness. And then on defense, you know all the things we already talked about. Um, so it's tough, but I do think you also need to find the right lineup.

But I guess to answer your question, it will. It will just be up and down. There will be moments for him and a D look amazing together, and then there's going to be moments where you know, you remind yourself, like Russ isn't a number one or a number two, and a D is a number two. So if Russ isn't the number one, you still need Lebron to kind

of come and set things in place appropriately. It's so funny to me, how like like I can be both completely frustrated, like completely and fully frustrated watching Russ, but still have some optimism. And you know the reason why, It is pretty simple, Like I, he has good things that he brings to the table, and he has bad

things that he brings to the table. And if the scenario around him is not uh, you know, perfectly catered to that, then the bad will outweigh the good and it will continue to be incredibly frustrating to watch, but again, like I I have a hard time giving up on And for the record, I'm not discounting what you're saying because this is so like that. This is a big fight I got in with Brooklyn, the Brooklyn fan base

about the DeAndre Jordan thing. I am not saying that what happened in the past with this guy, it's all the situations faulted, not his fault. But that's not what I'm saying. However, with this specific situation, I can't fully I can't fully commit to saying, hey, the rust thing is busted and it doesn't work until I see a

good stretch of basketball where the team is healthy. And the reason why is I do think there is a way, like you said, with Lebron, with his i Q and with the way this roster is put together, is like theoretically the perfect small ball lineup right like this, this lineup should theoretically be able to capture some of that that spark that he had in Houston before his quad quad injury. He should be They should be able to

capture some of that. But with Anthony Davis instead of p J. Tucker playing center, right like this, this could work the problem is is we don't even get to see what that looks like right now, and so I I'm just I want to be patient because I do think again, if he's in a situation where he's surrounded by big basketball egos like Lebron and a D who are locked in on defense extended for a couple of weeks,

he could take on some better habits. I do think that if he's strictly attacking inferior defenders, you know, because of the attention that is sent towards Lebron and a D, that he can make easier reads and by virtue of that, have that scale tip to where there's more good than bad. And if that happens, then it raises their ceiling. It really does. So now if you ask me if it's more than more likely than not that it won't happen, yeah, I'd probably say yes, I think it's more likely that

this doesn't work then likely that it does work. However, I still see the chance that it could work, and I don't really want to make you know, an observation on that until they start fielding a real basketball team with forwards in the two stars that were supposed to originally play next to him. Well, I think the interesting thing with him is that he tends to shine in situations that you know, people count him out in, right, So like in Washington, it looked like a disaster, and

then for a while it looks pretty impressive. Right, it was like, oh hey, Russ, it's kind of semi willing Washington, like to the plan um. But then when he gets in a situation where he's high end and he's like, you know, the expectations are higher, he kind of reminds you why he's on a tier below the guys like Lebron, James, Steph Curry, etcetera, etcetera. Um, I think I still think, like you said, there's I mean, when Lebron comes back, they can be a very good team. It can all work.

And I'm telling you there's going to come a stretch where it's gonna look like fire. He's gonna look like he's on fire. He's killing it. The issue is that I think I think he was acquired for the moments like now where Lebron's hurt, so that Lebron can kind of load, manage and show and you're gonna get the best version of it with Lebron on the court. So in these moments where you know you're leaning on Westbrook to kind of carry the load, you're going to get

these up and down performances. But like I said, there's gonna come a time where he finds it and you'll start rattling off a bunch in a row. But the issue is sustaining That a question for you because a lot of the conversation I guess that me and Jason have and I just looked at up right now. The Rockets traded Clint Clint Capella in February. I don't think the Lakers have until February, you know what I mean for like Rust to get comfortable. Do you think it's

just the center lineup? Do you think like just pulling DeAndre Jordan out, pulling a D at the five, like that's kind of the big band aid you can kind of put over it until Lebron gets back, Like do you think that is the fix? Like in Houston? Was that really the main kind of issue there or is it something else? Or Russ just picked it up himself and kind of like you said, he picks it up, you know when people aren't believing in him or whatever it is. Um he picks it up later he gets

rolling a little bit later in seasons. Or do you think like that's just the band aid you kind of put over it, because I feel like that's what the conversation has kind of deluded to A lot with Russ now is just to take the center, open the space for him, open up, opened up the space for him. Do you think that's just the issue for him right now? I don't think it's just the issue, but I think it definitely helps. You need to run a D at the five. I see Lakers fans argue about this all

the time. If Russ is on the squad and rus A is gonna be playing heavy minutes, you need to run a D at the five. There's no question because there's no space otherwise. And unless you have like a very legitimate lab threat, which a D already is, so you don't. I mean, I don't think DeAndre Jordan is a lowed threat anymore, at least definitely not what he was um and even I mean Capella was a lot there. But it's still to work because when Russ, Russ makes

he's like a one cut running back right. He makes that move and then he just goes and so when someone else is in that space, it's easy to help over on him. And like I said, he does not get love from referee. So he'll get to the basket, he'll get close, someone helps over, he might even get hacked, but he won't get the call most times. So it just kills the space. He can't open the space up on his own, and when he tries to, he shoots from the elbows right um that little mid range area.

So that's it's all just clogged up the best way. I mean, when Houston found success, it's because they traded Capella.

Unfortunately I missed Capella. But you get to go five out and then rust can break a defense down, draw a corner defender, whip the ball out, the ball gets moving, you know, you start putting the defense on their heels and you start forcing the defense to react, and that's when your offense actually begins clicking, because then rust can put pressure on people and is so one on one, get a smaller guard whatever, beat them to the rack, or use his muscle to get to the to the

hoop and score, or like I said, draw extra defenders. But without that, you're not going to draw extra defenders. You're gonna have the big maybe in the dunker spot or roaming somewhere around the middle, and his man is going to be in close proximity able to help over.

And then you start getting Russ forcing the issue. Russ, you know, like I said, get into the basket and missing, missing an easy layup or not getting a call, and then these possessions become wasted and they turn into turnovers and misses, and that's when things kind of start snowballing. So yeah, I think a D at the five is the immediate solution, and then the long term solution is a D at the five with Lebron back in the

lineup obviously. Yeah, we're on the same page, man. I think like, at the end of the day, you uh you, Russ is incapable of finishing around traffic anymore. So you have to find a way to minimize traffic as much as possible. Even if he's even if he's got a guy like size on him, he can't power through him to finish anymore. So look up the stats man. Look up his two point percentage in Houston, because I'm pretty sure it was one of the best of his career.

And that's because we we traded and opened it up for him to actually become an efficient player. Right, Not to cut you off, Jameson, but that's that's the point though. The point is is like you youth theoretically can do that with Anthony Davis at the five, and so like I, I think I I predicted before the season that Russ would have one of the more efficient years of his career. And it was because I envisioned a d playing at the five and Russ attacking tertiary defenders were before you

came on. We talked about the Thunder game. The reason why Oklahoma City shut down the Lakers in the fourth quarter of that game was because Russ was getting Dort,

who was their best perimeter defender. If Lebron is playing in that game, Lebron draws Dort and if they run action for Russ, it it's it's probably gonna be s g A on the ball and Russ is going to have a much better chance of the zickally beating st at the point of attack to get him on his hip and try to strong finish strong at the basket.

You know, like that's that that's a very It's that's the It's not just about bringing Lebron back so that he can run the show, and like, it literally makes Russ's job easier when when the defensive attention has to be geared and schemed for Lebron and a D. Yeah, I agree, And I think the difficulty when Lebron the one difficult thing, at least when Lebron does come back, is that when you have that line up on the floor and Bron and Russ are sharing their time with

a D, it kind of forces Bron to become if Bron is not handling the ball in the moments when Russ is handling the ball, Lebron then becomes kind of a spot up shooter. And I think you mentioned that earlier, Um, because that's kind of how it turns with Russ, right, Like you have to just kind of sit there watch him. I so almost like Hardened, except a much less efficient

version without step back capability. So you're just sitting there watching him, you know, I so, And if the defense draws over, if they feel the need to double or help out or whatever, that's when the ball gets moving. But you're gonna kind of see like Lebron and Russ kind of just taking turns. I feel like, um, and I don't know if that's you know, I'm not as worried about that particular dynamic because, for instance, Lebron used to do the same thing with Kyrie, And ironically, like Lebron,

Lebron likes to take possessions off on offense. But that's kind of one of his things. Is like you'll watch him when he's closing a game, like he'll do three or four high picking rolls, but then it's like, let me just dump into a d in the post and go stand on the wing because I need the rest. Like that's kind of the way he is. So like the way I see it, he on possessions where he's resting, he's actually a spot up threat, so it can work with the rustling and then when he's on the ball.

We've seen lots of different examples of this. Uh, it depends on where they position him on the floor. If they position him, you know, uh, you know, in a position where it's easy tole off of him, then it can be more dangerous than if he's tucked somewhere else on the floor where he can maybe be a better offensive rebounding threat. Or we saw in the Memphis game they used him as a screener and got a bunch of good looks out of having him basically played the

Draymond role anticipating them trapping Lebron at the top. So like, I'm not as concerned about the dynamic of how that can work in crunch time. Where where I would have been really concerned is if in those games, in those high leverage moments, Russ co opted the ball from Lebron

too much, which which he did it. For the record, we have not had a game yet this year where Lebron was healthy, the game was close and Russ took the ball out of his hands and did something stupid that has not happened this year for the record, so that would be the red lining for the record. By the way, he the highest two point field goal percentage of his career was in Houston. Sounds right, and he

led the league this season. I think, according to what looking at in two point attempts as well, um, that was the He's only had two seasons in his career where his two point field goal percentage was above and that was one of them. Um. The other one was two thousand, two thousand, sixteen, So I think that's the key.

The other thing that I don't see disgusted enough. And maybe it's just on my end, but Um the killer man, and it's another thing, like I hear you'll talk about habits, right, you need to get used to the idea that he's his habits are there and that's just what it is. You get good nights, sometimes you wanna get bad nights. The saving grace could be Lebron maybe, like you know, that whole cliche of Lebron being in his ear is actually going to materialize and come to fruition and he'll

start changing his habits. But I can tell you for sure in Houston he did not like that they tried to change the way he played, and that was part of why he asked out. Um. He was just like, look, I want to get back to playing my style of ball with the ball in my hands, doing what I do. And so I think the one person he'd listened to is Lebron. But whenever you'll talk about changing habits, you need to just kind of get used to the fact that that might not happen. But the other killer with

him is um free throw percentage man. It's he's become Unfortunately, somehow he's become such a bad free throw shooter. In the later stages of his career, he used to be and above pretty much guaranteed um. And you know, now what this season he's in Houston, it was bad and he got up to at one point, but Washington, you know,

So that's the other thing I think. I think the fundamentals are obvious inability to shoot and spread the floor, defensive lapses, and then he misses free throws and he doesn't get there near enough um to kind of compensate for some of the weaknesses on offense. And you talked

about like him changing in Houston. I thought like something we talked about also on the part was like he just stopped shooting threes right in Houston as well, Like I think he just he took his least amount of threes in Houston, especially after they traded Capella, so that kind of pushed him up into a bunch of two points legal percentages. And that's what I thought he would

do here and maybe that just hasn't happened. And again we talked about like I didn't think Russell Westbrook was gonna change, but like I think marginal kind of changes would have had a big impact on this team. I've seen it in spots here and there on the games that Lebron has played, but definitely when Lebron's out, he's back to his just oldt usage or whatever. And we said, that's just not conductive to winning. Like it's it's been

proven throughout his career. You give Russell Westbrook the ball for a million possessions, you're not gonna win at a high enough clip, at least to what this team wants to go to. But with Lebron, I think you can drop that usage down. And again, that's not great for a guy who you know, makes the money he does that takes the salad scot that he does, but that's

just what it is right now. And like like you said, Jason, like at the end of games, it's been pretty clear he's not gonna have the ball in his hands like that's that's been clear for a lot of a lot of the late game situations. So maybe that's just something that I'm optimistic about. Maybe I'm foolishly optimistic about, but that's where I think Lebron comes in and really helps to solidify his role, even though I still see him as like a star, like solidified his his role a

little bit there. That's why I'm less worried about it is it's just there's the what you need from Russ becomes so much less when this team is put together. And if it's not going to be put together because the injuries, then they were never going to contend for the championship anyway. And I I am a little bit more optimistic about Russ in the Dennis Shrewder role than I am in the co star role. And he was in the co star role in Houston, and he was

in the co star role in in Washington. And you know, Trush's point, like if it becomes a personal beef for him where it's like I want to go play my style of ball, then yeah, that could be a problem. But dude, like you'd have to be some special kind of lack of self awareness to to be in the same walker room with with Lebron and a d and be like give me the ball, you know, Like like, so, I I don't know. I I that like I said from the very beginning, I'll just repeat that, like I

I am really frustrated every time I watched him. However, I'm probably one of the more optimistic Laker fans in terms of what it could be. Um, when this all comes together, well, I mean, last point I'll say is I'm kind of just driving home everything I said. But I think Houston had the blueprint post Capella trade. Um. I already talked about his two point percentage being the highest of his career. His overall field goal percentage in Houston was also the highest of his career, and the

next high it was forty seven. The next highest of his career was two thousand eleven to twelve forty five point seven percent. So that's pretty drastic in my opinions. UM. And then when you but when you drop his field goal attempts to what right now he's at eighteen point eight when he's only hitting of those, that's where you get into trouble, right because he's not shooting well. He's not shooting well from three. And then it all kind

of just like adds on to itself. And also his three point attempts in Houston, we're the lowest since two thousand thirteen to two thousand fourteen. So since two that thirteen and fourteen, he has not been below four attempts per game except for the season in Houston when he shot three point seven, so you have to just get him on a track where he's bought in, focused on just using his skill to get to the rim. Houston treated him his I so possessions and Bully drives to

the basket as like a post up. Like I said earlier, Um, it was like their version of you know, points in the paint inside offense and there was a stretch where it was really working and like it was on fire. So I think that is possible with the Lakers. You know, bro on the same page. Cool man, Well, I appreciate it. So y'all to thank you for stopping by. This was fun. You're you're probably the perfect guy for us to talk

to you about this. He just you. You're You're the You're the person that's like leading that that group therapy session who's actually been through everything. You're the perfect guy to be like tell me how you really feel. I'm telling you both, it's a it is a trip watching you guys like literally mirror the entire Rockets Twitter. You know, It's like I'm watching you'll go on the roller coaster and I just want to like tell you, like, hey, this is how it's gonna be it's gonna be okay

until it's not. But you have Lebron, so I think ultimately, I think it will be okay still. And if you haven't listened to the one with the Rush hopped on our pod a couple of days, I think before the season started, a lot of that stuff kind of foreshadowed what we're seeing now, So i'd recommend everyone to go listen to it if you haven't, Rush appreciate you coming up though, Man, Thanks you appreciated baby. Have a good night, man,

thank you too. Yeah, and we'll we'll take the I'll take the link from that show, the one that Rush was on, and I'll share it underneath this one for anybody that wants to see it. But hey, we're gonna call it tonight guys, because it's already here. But we'll be back Monday night and we will take more callers. So if we didn't get to you tonight, I'm sorry, but we will get to here on Monday. We got a long season and head too, so just keep coming back and requesting and we'll get as many of you

guys up as we can. This will be airing on Dash for Video on Monday morning at seven am and we'll be on our podcast feed here in about thirty minutes. As always, we sincerely appreciate your guys support and we will see you on Monday night. Thanks everyone,