Episode 89: Cavs/Lakers Postgame Spaces

the first time this season. Um and you know what, I'm sure some people who haven't been paying attention will try to undercut to some extent, but was a really impressive win against a really good team that has shown some flashes of defense in the last week that we really haven't seen much in recent NBA history, taking high powered offenses and holding them to the eighties and nineties. Um,

like Denver, like Atlanta, like the Clippers. Just a really good basketball team that is that is smartly put together. And the Lakers, who have not been a good basketball team this year, finally put some stuff together that we knew they needed to put together in order to compete and and got the job done. Roge, what what what is your overarching you know, thirty thousand feet type of

opinion from this game to start with? So I don't know if I'm at thirty feet yet, Like I'm still you know, the plane is kind of going up as I just kind of the plane just went up. But it was nice to have Lebron back. I guess, like that was I guess my first kind of take away. The last few games we were kind of analyzing the team without him, and like I said, you have to find kind of lineups that are effective without Lebron playing.

But it was just good to have him back. And he definitely kind of sleep walked through a lot of this game. Um, he didn't really try on defense until the fourth, but that fourth quarter was really calming for me. I don't know about you, Jason, but like just to see that they have this gear to go to, like it was pretty clear. It was kind of just like, let's walk through this. And in the fourth quarter it was O time and they really just went Lebron a D screen and roll. They knew they ran this a

billion times quickly. Ron came off, hit to a D. He score. Lebron comes off, he gets to the rim. It was nice to see that that pet play is still there and then be able to turn on the defense right go on these defensive runs as we talked about and we needed to see, and they did that tonight. Ten points I think for the calves for a lot of that for to close the half as well. I think they went on like a thirteen oh run or something, so you can see the remnants there of a good defense.

But yeah, those are kind of my initial thoughts. How about you. So let's start with Lebron because I'm actually gonna be pretty critical with him tonight, but I'm gonna save it for later because he was so good at the end of that game that that happen to be what we lead with. You know. One of the reasons why I've always valued Lebron, you know, compared to his peers, is because of the well rounded nature of his game.

What he can do defensively when he's dialed in, what he can do as an isolation score, what he can do to attack mismatches, but most importantly, what he can do when a defense is geared up to stop it, because that's the most important thing. Like it's not about what you can do in your individual matchup, because nine times out of ten, when the ship hits the fan in the biggest playoff moments, they're throwing multiple bodies at you.

They're throwing they're mixing coverages, they're sending doubles, they're trapping, they're they're they're helping off the weak side corner. They're doing all sorts of crazy stuff. And Lebron is, without a doubt, the very best player in the game right

now at deciphering that type of defense. And that sequence at the end of the game was such an interesting basketball sequence because when you when you beat a team with one specific play, they're always going to shade and adjust in that direction to try to stop at the

next time. And it was so interesting to watch him go through the progression of that a D pick and roll and they threw little wrinkles in like they would have bays Moore set a quick little pin screen down on a eas man so that a D would have just a tiny bit of separation as he was coming up to set the screen. But the cycle was pretty simply pick and roll DA D. They stayed home on Lebron. He just threw a pocket pass, a D lays it up. Very next possession, pick and roll d D. Lebron's going

down the lank. This time the guy in the drop covers is a little bit closer to the rimp to try to watch out for a D and that pocket past. So Lebron just continues all the way and finishes, and then on the third one, this time they kind of sent help from the week side corners and Lebron swings it reverse across the court to Baysmore in the corner who's wide open. There's a rotating defender. He swings it

to Bradley knocks down a wide open three. And then the following possession they just switched the pick and roll, because when you're having trouble, when you're having trouble with your traditional pick and roll coverage with guys dying on the screen, if you just switch it, it usually will force you to isolate. Well, Lebron's just isolated Jared Allen and took him right to the basket and made a three.

And then on the final possession, they literally trapped Lebron on the pick and roll and A D slipped it, but Carmelo's man stepped into the lane to take away the dump pass, and Lebron just swung into Carmelo and made a three. And that progression, that ability to decipher each and every possible defensive counter to your pick and roll uh that you're running with Lebron and a D, that is what makes him a top tier superstar in

addition to all the other things that he does. And that's what that's what makes us Laker fans so optimistic because that type of defense deciphering is exactly what you need to win playoff games. And again, I'm gonna be critical of Lebron later on because I thought he was really bad defensively in this game, and I thought it

trickled down in a lot of ways. But that little stretch he went and that game was back and forth and back and forth, and the Caps you get a little lead and then the Lakers would fight back, then all of a sudden it was over because of like a six or seven possession stretch where one of the best play it was in the world, just apart and having that in your back pocket as a weapon is

such an asset for this team. Yeah, for sure. And I've like and I don't think it's a coincidence that happened when a d was at the five right as well. I believe Adio was at the five when they made their running. Yeah, and I was on the I was on the boat early that I thought DeAndre Jordan could play those first six you know, five minutes it will be fine, but I think I'm starting to turn over onto the other side. Like the offense is just too ugly when he's out there. And even when Dwight was

out there, I thought tonight it was bad. Um he kind of gets he gets off the loose, a lot, off the hook a lot with DeAndre Jordan and not playing the way he does. But yeah, like I feel like we're gonna have to go to this a d at the five more. Like Russ just can't get going. And I thought that second quarter when I think the Calves made like ten straight shots in a row, I

believe that was Um. That was with like Russ. I think it was Russ, Um Dwight and like Mellow and you saw Vogo kind of Vogo kind of put his foot down, right, Malik Monks only played four minutes in that first half. Carmela was getting picked on relentlessly, and I don't like those lineups when he's out there with just Dwight, and I think he was also Leak Monk and he's like the main help defender, so every single

time it's just a pick and roll. And they have really like high powered guards, right, Daris Garland a guy who can pull up. It's called Saxton as well, but mainly it was Garland. He was coming off. D White was up and it's Carmelo's job to help, and they just got picked on relentlessly. And I thought this was the first time I saw Vogo kind of put his foot down, like, no, if you're not gonna make that rotation,

you're not gonna play. He pulled a mellow for Baysmore Monk got pulled instantly, and then Austin reaves man like, I don't know if he wants I don't know if you want to be if he wants to be the next guy we talked about, But I said, I just I just thought he was huge, man like, like, I know it's not flash here or anything, but everything he does kind of just comes off the screen just because of how our other guards defend. Like he plays well. He got a lot of like uh close to jump

all plays. He just in the right He's just in the right place. He chases over screens correctly, he makes the right read and it just fits our defensive coverage. What do you think of Austin reads? Because I thought I treated that he might need to start, like if we're gonna go to this a D of the five, which it seems like it needs to. And maybe just because the injuries, DeAndre Jordan will continue to start here

and maybe the win tonight continues that as well. But I feel like we're gonna have to eventually go small and without injuries, he might be the one that fits in what do you see from Austin Reeves. So yeah, so let's so this is actually the perfect a little segue into the Laker defense because I thought Austin Reeves, Avery Bradley, and Dwight Poward in particular, phase more two as well had a little stretch in the second quarter in particular. But those those four guys ignited the Laker defense,

and the Stars ended up following suit. As bad as Lebron and a D were defensively to start the game, they both were outrageously good and at the end of the fourth quarter blowing up stuff around the rim. So but the backwards, the ask bactwards. Part of that is the fact that it started with the role players, and that so to be I'm saying that as a massive compliment to Austin Reeves, to Avery Bradley and to those guys. However,

it shouldn't work that way. And that's that's the one thing that I'd like to see to see shifted moving moving forward, is it needs to be Lebron and a D and Russ that set that example because you know what like that, that sort of thing will make it so that these because there's a consistency you can expect from those guys, but the other guys on the perpherty like Mellow, like MOLIEKMNK, those guys are are inconsistent with their defensive effort or lack their ball together, and so

they're going to be more willing to put in that type of effort and gain that type of identity if they see the stars do. And I thought it was kind of unfortunate tonight that it required the role players to come in, uh you know, specifically role players that were never intended to be part of this rotation to begin with, like Bradley, like Reeves, who came in and

ignited the team. As as awesome as it was and as great as those guys are, and we're gonna talk a lot about what they did to help you know why it works with them on the floor, But I

just I don't as an identity of this team. It needs to trickle down from the top and and I'm hope, I'm hopeful that moving forward, that's something that Lebron and a d and Russe will embrace, because that's pretty shameful when the undrafted kid comes in and finally gets you to start playing hard, Like the kid who's literally fighting for his spot in the league is the one that finally convinces you to hit the jets a little bit, you know what I mean. But yeah, I mean, the

Austar reach thing is that simple. It's just it's it's bottled up energy that is just being released, you know, unendingly. And during his during his shift on the floor, he literally is selling out on the defensive end, even at the expense of his body. He's diving in, getting two hands on the ball every time a guy picks up his dribble, putting his chest and face annoy. He's gonna get elbows, he's gonna get you know, shoulders in the chin and all sorts of crazy stuff. He's gonna take

the beating. He's putting in the work because it's a dirty job. It's a dirty job. The chase dudes over the top of pick and roll when in the NBA the other team is running sixty pick and rolls at night, you know what I mean. Like, it's a dirty job, right, and someone's got to be willing to do it. And so far early in the season, Reeves and Bradley and Baysmore have been the three guys who have been willing

to do it. Yeah, and you brought up the Reeves defense, and that's all true, but I think even on offense as well, Like I don't think you talked about him as like a guy who attacks closeouts, right, He's really good at that, and I thought you saw him like

as a connector. Again, tonight he had a couple of like really nice passes where he like shot fake drove and then like cross core passed to the corner and mellow, and then he had one with the ball moved and I think he like passed fake found Russ at the rim, like he just knows how to play. And again those are all cliches, I guess, but he's just really good as a guy who's a connector who can put play next to stars and it just fits. And his defense is at a baseline level enough. And again he'll get

picked on and stuff like that. But I thought, just tonight, putting him on the guards like Ruby, Ricky Robio got him a couple of times. And again Ricky Roubrio turns into Steph Curry mixed with Damian Lillard and the Lakers. For some reason, you could see Carmelo being like man, I put a hand up in like a step back left three on the wing side. But I thought, like Austin Reis did a nice job on him as well.

And again, I'm just trying to fit and see how like if eight is gonna start at the five, you need two other wing guys next to Russ and Lebron, and like if if Reeves is the guy, I think he can fit until we get our kind of full rotation going. But yeah, I thought he was really good, and shout out to Avery Bradley Man. He was a plus twenty. I think um at the end of the third or something like that, he was a plus twenty. And he just fits Vogel's kind of defensive style, like

you could tell Vogel likes him. They have that connection from and I think he's gonna play a lot going forward, especially if his three is going down. But he's just a tenacious guy, high like point of attack defense. Yeah, but like that that like Tenation's point of attack defender gets into you, like, you know, as a little sturdy, doesn't you know, give up anything, like goes around screens,

chases like that just fits what Vogel wants defensively. You could tell like he went to him over Molikue Monk and you know, every Bradley wasn't even on the team him to like a couple of weeks ago, but he went with him over Mi League mon because he's the guy who's gonna defend harder. And Bradley knows the system, knows the plays. Um, he's coming off these like little handoffs. He had a nice like I think dribble handoff with a d race coord at the rim. He just kind

of knows the team and he fits. I think he's gonna play a lot going forward. But yeah, I shout out to them base more as well. But I thought he played his role. Um, just high effort guys, and I think you need that. I want to ask you this because we're going into this stretch of like we're playing a bunch of bad teams, right, I'm not sure who they played next. Yeah, back to back, back to back with Houston at home Sunday Tuesday, and then Thursday they played okay see again at home and then on

Saturday go to Portland. So you got three straight really really really really really bad and then uh and then they'll up for I'm wondering, like if we're about to see something like bad habits kind of build up, because I thought that's what tonight was like, even though I thought it would be a little different because of what happened and okay see, like and again I thought they started well, but then they completely again took the foot

off the gas. Some of that is line up as well, but like we might see a couple of bad habits because you could tell A D and Lebron really coasted through that first half, Like, look, Evan, Evan moment was really good, Like I think that guy is going to be special, but he was like was seven for ten in that first half. Like there was just no resistance

on the defensive end. And I tweeted this before, like our defensive talent isn't good enough to where if Bron and a D are disengaged on the end and we're just not going to defend, well, what do you think about like, do you think there's some bad habits they are going to be built here as we're going into the stretch with some more bad teams. Yeah, I mean I think I think Russ in particular will want to

get his revenge on Oklahoma. But but but the Houston ones in particularly, I mean, here's the thing, and this is what we were talking about this from an identity perspective, right because I was actually talking with Samus Fonder about this on Twitter earlier, Like, you know, the Lakers were so much fun to root for because you know, people like rooting for people who work hard. That's just it's

just the reality. Like, it doesn't It doesn't make you more likable as an athlete to to coast and b as your right through stuff, even if you do get wins. That's an unlikable trade. You know what was Zack Loo did a really good job of this pointing this out

in the season. From the start from training camp, Lebron and a d embraced the defensive end in a way that Lebron in particular had not done so since two thousand in Cleveland, and it set a tone that trickled down the roster and that's how they went twenty four and three to start the year. They had extremely good

defensive habits that started from the top down. And what's been really unfortunate about this season in particular is, you know, a d we had a tendency to cut Anthony Davis slack because he's so incredibly talented, and the same goes for Lebron, Like Lebron had fifteen points in the first half and had some dunks and you know, uh was it was pretty active offensively, but it's like, actually, he was hurting the team in a lot of ways defensively, And the same goes for Anthony Davis, Like, how who's

gonna look at Anthony Davis who's averaging twenty eight points and shooting coming into tonight and be like, you have to be better. You know, it's hard to do that, but that's the reality of their talent level as Tier one superstars, guys who are above everyone else in the league, Like shooting isn't enough if you're coasting through the game on the defensive end of the floor, and especially with Lebron, like it's Lebron, Like these dudes literally grew up watching you.

A lot of these younger guys on your team, like Malik Monk grew up watching you. You don't think he's going to watch you stand with your hands on your hips and watching Darius Scarland lay up the ball and offering no help and think like, like, I guess I don't have to do that either, you know what I mean?

Like it's it trickles down, and so from that standpoint, like I'm hopeful that in these Houston games and in the Oklahoma City game, that Lebron and a d just attap the game themselves to try to, you know, set that tone early, which will trickle down because at the end of the day, when you're up twenty six, like they were in Oklahoma City the other night, you'd like to have those guys it out there for quarter, you know, you'd like to have them rest like a lot of

the two thousand sixteen Warriors, you know what I mean, Like have a d quarters this year. That's possible if against the games against the teams like Houston, you put people away, put teams away, and don't let it drag out. But you and I both know how this is gonna go. It's gonna get ugly. Um, I just it's just this team's identity. To this point, they've shown me that they're lazy. So if that changes, then I will change my take

on what the team's identity is. But right now, every single game this year, they've had a lack of focus and effort on the defensive end of the floor for extended stretches of the game, which wasn't the case in previous years. So that what would tell you that there would change in Houston all of a sudden. Yeah, for sure, that's what it seems like it's going to be. And again I thought tonight after that Oklahoma City kind of lost,

there would be a little bit different. I thought, like the starting ened, they come out and play well, but maybe that just second quarter there where like Calves again hit tense straight at any ready, like the lineups either mellow Dwight next to them. But let's move on to Russ because obviously Russ is gonna be the story. Like I said every single night, I thought today again, he had a lot of like I don't know how many turnovers he had. He should have probably had double if

like his teammates didn't catch them. He does a lot of like this. He still does a lot of this, like where he drives, expects help, there's no help, and it's like he's in the air and now he has to throw it back out and it's like it's pretty much a turnover, even though someone does catch it. But I thought like that transition with Lebron, I thought that was something that was nice, like we found them kind

of connecting transition. I thought like they found something as well at the end of the game, where like it was pretty like that's how the end of the games are gonna go. Right in the playoff games are now Lebron's gonna have the ball, he's gonna have a D as a screener, and Russ is gonna be off the ball. And I thought they kind of found something. They stuck him kind of in that dunker spot there when a d was at the five and it and it works

because you don't have another big in there. But like I thought, he played okay, it was again another Russ game. What do you see from him tonight? So to rewatch the fourth quarter to see exactly the way Cleveland guarded him in those pick and roll actions that they spam. Um, I thought he, like you said, he was in the dunker spot. I thought I thought he might have been in the strong side corner for some of it, but I need to rewatch it because I just honestly don't

remember exactly. But over the course of the game, from the beginning, it was such a textbook Russell Westbrook type

of game. Like early early on, you have him bully Darius Garland to the basket for a layup, like that's match up hunting that I think is gonna be devastating in playoff series, is especially against a team like Brooklyn for instance, Like he's gonna be able to take Patty Mills or Kyrie Irving and just bury him in the basket on on occasion in a way that will force Brooklyn to have to send double teams, which will trickle

down to open shots he had. He hit. The three that he took was wide open at the top of the key, so much so that he had a chance to think about it, which I think is almost good for him, like he should always be thinking not shoot, But if the defense is literally making him, then he can really get set up, get balanced, get his hands on the laces and knock it down, which he did. And then and then there was another possession where he caught the ball on the left corner and Jared Allen

like chased him off the three point line. He just went in and dunked it like that's the but he but he took his time to set up for his shot, which baded Jared Allen to coming out that kind of patience with his jump shot is is really good. And then he also had an offensive refound on the first quarter.

All good, but he also had three turnovers in the first quarter, and like two or three additional plays where like you said, when he put his head down and just barreled into the lane when there wasn't really anything there and just threw the ball back out And two of them in particular, were deflected and very easily could have been turnovers for dunks, but just happened by the luck to bounce into the hands of Lakers. So that's

the rust of Westbrook experience, right. I just described five good plays and five point plays, Like that's kind of the way it goes. And every time I see that, I just think to myself, like, if he can somehow find a way to try to him back on some of the bad, this guy can really raise the ceiling of the team. But but overall, I thought it was

more or less your average type of Russ performance. The big thing that I'm looking to look at in the tape tomorrow is how they utilized Russ in those pick and roll actions and whether or not because if Cleveland, if Cleveland was staying home on Russ, then it's kind of fools gold, right, because any really good defensive team is going to ignore Russ in those situations. So you know, I'm really interested to see, uh really really look back at those pick and roll possessions and see what Cleveland

was doing with Russ. But overall, good game, just typical Russ, good and bad, mixed type of deal. Yeah, So for us only thirteen shot attempts in thirty four minutes, he was eight of thirteen um put in a five or six, six, five assists, six rebounds. But I thought he did away with those like really bad shots like you always talking about Tim the fat right, like he took something. He took those banker three baker banker like mid range shots,

which I kind of I'm okay with. I think he hits those in okay percentage where like he's in the post isolation, Lakers aren't really running anything and he's just against the switch and he tries to bank it in. But like those like transition mid range pulled up, I thought he kind of took those away. Um, he took one. He only took one. Three and he made it. It was that one where he's wide open at the top. You talked about it, but he didn't take those like

you know, I made a layup. Let me come down and and do like a job step three or one of those. Like he took all those out. And maybe that's just like the result of playing next to Lebron, I guess. And I thought like they were staggered pretty nicely tonight. Um. And when he got to play with like a D at the five, I thought it looked pretty good. Like him and a D ran a couple of ball screens and it looked like it was kind of working. Um, he got a lob to a D

on one of the players. In the fourth, he got to the rim he finished. Um, this was one of the better like Russ games. Even if you put in the turnovers, which are never gonna go away, that's just kind of the that's just kind of what you get when you play with Russ. So I thought he was okay, like, this is what it should be, right, thirteen shot attempts. Maybe that's a little a little low, but he was super efficient on him and that's all you can really ask.

And I thought he fit kind of the defense as well. I thought his defense was fine um in the fourth too, But yeah, that's kind of what I saw from Russ Who else? Who else do you want to talk about

from tonight? Well? I wanted to talk a little bit more about the defense, so you know, but what was so interesting about the last couple of years with the Lakers is, you know, for as much as people would make fun of the Lakers, is particularly the Spectrum sports Net broadcast would always throw up that graphic like Lakers haven't scored in four minutes and thirty two seconds, and it would be like ticking on the bottom of the screen.

They actually used it tonight at the start of the fourth quarter, which I thought was primarily a result of Russell Westbrook co opting the ball from Lebron. And then when then when Lebron finally was like enough of this and to control, things kind of settled down. But the what's what was so funny about that as teams, people would make fun of the Lakers for going through these

extensive scoring droughts. You and I would always point out in almost every win there was there was a pivotal defense of stretchy like a stretch, a stretch of the game where they just choked the life out of the other team. And during that stretch, you know, even if the Lakers only scored, you know, in a in a twelve minute quarter, even if they only scored twenty two points, they'd end up holding the other team to like nine or something like that, you know, and they win. That

was the identity of that team. There was always that pivotal defensive stretch. And this year there have been a handful of short defensive stretches a couple of minutes here, a couple of minutes there, where the right lineup is out there and they get a bunch of stops. But they had never been able to put multiple of those together, or an extended one of those together. In the first three quarters tonight are more like the first two and

a half quarters tonight. There was that one stretch in the second quarter to the end of the quarter where you know, for about four minutes they held the calves. Uh. It was either scoreless or nearly scoreless. I can't remember what it was, but all around that was Garba defense.

But with two minutes and forty something seconds left in the third quarters, all the way to the two minute fifteen second mark in the fourth quarter, when the Cats took out all their starters, so over one quarter, twelve minute and twelve and a half minute stretch, basically they helped the Cats to ten point. Yeah, that is a

that is a vintage l a Laker defensive stifling. We're literally choking you to death and and we're but the difference is this team can score the ball so well, Like, get over that two minutes and forty something seconds at the end of the third the Lakers scored twelve points, you know, and then and then the start of the fourth, the Lakers got really sloppy offensively and they gave up those ten That's where those ten points basically were scored,

the ten points that Cleveland scored, and then they like completely strangled them again. And their offense is so nuclear with the shooting that they have now because the guys around Anthony Davis and Lebron are are so much better at shooting the ball up and they were in previous years, like Carmelo for instance, they just completely blew the game open. All of a sudden, you're up twelve and it's pretty much over. Now Here comes the Calves taking their starters

at the game point. Being like, I always wanted the addition of offensive talent to this team to be something that complemented the defense, not something that replaced the defense. That was never gonna work. Trying to outscore teams was never going to be a way that this could work. The only way to look at it was if we infuse some offensive talent with this group, maybe the offense, maybe our runs would be even more explosive and even

more dominant. It was meant to raise the ceiling of the team, not to change the identity of the team. And so that's the key moving forward for me. That stretch, that twelve minute stretch, that needs to be like your basketball, like your basketball needs to be we are the same as our championship team with more offensive talent, so that our runs are even more explosive and so that we're

even more dominant. That needs to be the way that the Stars think, the way they approached the game, because if that's the case, this team will win the title. But if it becomes a swap thing where we're giving away a bunch of ground defensively and making up for it offensively, this team will lose to somebody in the Western Conference playoffs, probably a Phoenix, probably a Utah, probably Golden State. That's that's kind of the way I see

it in my opinion. Yeah, like you talked about that defensive the four, they shut the calves water off like that, that's what they Basically, they completely shut the just and it was a complete diversion from the whole game, right, So like they were coming off these screens and they were doing whatever they wanted. And in the fourth, Lebron and a d were like, no, like we're gonna be there on the help. Lebron is there, right, He's he's

the help defender. That's his job now. And I think it was like russ Um when they made that running You talked about like that they have the offensive score now the offensive was mellow tonight, right, Like you can't help off Mellow, especially when he's on like that, like he was obviously on and you could tell you kind of loves playing in l A And that's pretty cool. But it was like Russ Bradley, A D. Lebron and Mellow and and three of those people are for from

that team. Right. We forget that KCP started in the playoffs, but all year it was Avery Bradley and you could tell like they kind of turn it was great. Yeah, and you could tell they fit right in defensively, like Avery Bradley would you know, fight over the screen and eighties right there and eighties able to take away the shot from Garland and take away the past the lab to Jared Allen or to Mowbley and and then they would come down the other end and Lebron has the ball,

uh someone eighties screen and then they find Mellows. So but yeah, their defense in that fourth quarter. I just needed to see that at least a few times. Like I don't need to see it. I want to see it every night. That would be great. I just don't think that's what we're gonna get with this team. Like

this team has pretty it's been pretty clear. Where was six games in now and uh, they've given this kind of lackluster effort um a few times, and I feel like that's what we're gonna continue to get, especially with the schedule going as it is against Houston, Oklahoma City, but just to see that it was really cool because you're right, that was the identity of the team, that they can really just turn your water off, and that's what they did against Garland and Mobley and all those dudes.

They couldn't score ten points in the fourth I think a lot of that was free throws as well. I have to go back and watch the fourth quarter, but it felt like a lot of those were free throws and really weird, dumbfouls. But uh, but yeah, that was it was. It was great to see that they still have that in them. And I feel like every Bradley's gonna play a time going forward. Don't about you, but I just that's what it felt like from this game. To me, I was gonna see a lot more Avery

Bradley if he plays this well, he will. Yeah, you know, the next the next step for me in my opinion, because like Cleveland's a good basketball team, You're gonna see a lot of Laker detractors over the course of the next forty eight hours trying to point out that Cleveland sucks and they don't. If you look at the way they're constructed. They're they have two bigs, but one of

them is a stretched big. So it's very similar to the way the Lakers look with their big lineups, and they're they're big man that they're playing in that Dwight DeAndre Jordan's role is a much much better version of Dwight in DeAndre and that's that's Jared Allen. He's a very very good player at that position, Glory Marketing, really good shooter. And then both of their guards can can

pick you apart out of pick and roll. So they're a good basketball team, but they're not at the level of a Phoenix or a Golden Spit or a Utah. So so the next step for me that the thing that would really solidify my optimism in this group is one of those twelve ten, ten, twelve fifteen minute stretches against one of those teams where they completely shut them down.

Like the perfect example I'd use would be that Denver game last year, back when Lebron and Navy were healthy before before the Achilles issue, where they took that Denver team and just completely shut them down in the second half, like to the point where Yoga Yokitchen Murray looks completely helpless. You know that kind of thing that once I see one of those stretches that will kind of solidify it

for me. But so I actually the question for you now, So you know, one of the big things that I've been hammering home all summer is this idea that accountability will transform inferior or defensive player years into defensive players that can do their job. Now, there's a couple of so, for instance, like Kyle Kuzma. Kyle Kuzma was a slow footed six nine player who you know, in terms of his lateral quickness in his first step is pretty blow average for an NBA player, but he had some size,

but that was where he was lacking. So he became after being an inferior defensive player to start the campaign and then was really inconsistent in the in the in the Luke Walton years, but he became a very solid defensive player for the Lakers towards the end of the championship season and extending into last year. So God, serius heard me serious, stopped, thank you. I have home pods and they're obnoxious anyway, So um, sorry about that guys anyway.

So um, so, the point is that they were able to convert Kuzma up into a passable and serviceable defensive player now there. So there's two kind of elements to that that are necessary. One, you have to have at least something that you bring to the tables an athletes. So for instance, Mellow, it's his size. He's big enough that if he gives a ship enough, he should be

able to be serviceable. Molik Monk is a very good athlete, so even though he's very thin, he's got half decent size at six three in long arms and he's a very good athlete, so he has some tool to build around. And then the other big thing is the other players on the floor have to be good defensively, so it requires Lebron in a D to be you know, all defense level players for this to make sense. But I'm

a big believer that they can be converted. So my question for you is, with Frank showing tonight that he is willing to bench players, including high profile players, for not defending, do you think that over the course of the season through accountability, that some of these inferior Laker players can become like Kyle Kuzma, serve supple defense supporters.

I think they can. I think Kyle Kuzin is a great kind of example of this because under like Luke Wall and I remember Kyl Klusma didn't even have like a defensive stance really like it was really bad. Under Vogel, it developed and he became you're right, a service wild defender. Kyle Kuzmin is also at like six seven six eight or something, so he did kind of have the tools to mix for that, like I think some guys can of Like I think Leek Monk can be better than

like what he's shown. I think there's like a baseline level that he can get to um, but there's also a cap, right, there's a ceiling. It's a small guard. He's kind of light. He's not gonna become some great defender, but he can become better. I think accountability and if your minutes are gone, I'm sure him playing only four

minutes tonight is a wake up call. Right, Lake Monk signed here probably thought, you know, he's gonna it's gonna play a bunch off the bench, and he got bench for Austin Reeves, the undrafted kid who came out and is playing better defensively. So I'm sure that is a step up. I still think that's I don't know if it's a skill and the effort thing. Like I think blaming defense all on effort is also a mistake as well.

I think it's also like lack of focus, lack of lack of skill, lack of knowledge, like there's things there. But you're right. I think Bobo putting his foot down like tonight. I think tonight was like the first time he really kind of he really kind of put his foot down, especially with pulling Mellow as well for baseball right away, just showing that you'll you'll do that. I think that can be a wake up call. But I

think it's gonna take time. Um, we're probably not gonna see those kind of real developments until the middle of the season. And that would be a whole new team as well. We'll get three new rotation guys, three guys who are supposed to be part of the defense. But I think it can. I just I don't know to what extent that it would. What do you think, Yeah, so I do as well. I think it's a it's a it's a simple fact of urgency, right like if you're if you're a Malik monk and you are as

bad defensively as he was in the San Antonio game. Um, but you know Frank's not pulling you, and you have the confidence to continue to be aggressive offensively to what

he was. I mean it basically the the shot of that game, in that pull and that pull up three on the left wing, Like there's no urgency, there's nothing that's convincing you to sit down and get in that stance, like you know, you have an order of operations when you're playing, Like it's for all of us, for all of us old men, all of us guys that are just you know, washed playing basketball at our rec league or our l a fitness. Like when you go up there,

you might have a list of priorities. And your list of priorities might be like get a sweat, you know, it might be like, you know, try try to work on your shot. Maybe you're working on your post play. Maybe you get satisfaction at a scoring and that's what matters the most of you. But the only way to actually sit in a stance and do all the things that you need to do to get defensive stops at your position, which like I said, is dirty work, you

have to actually want to do it. I mean, the easiest way to uh, to want to do it is to tie that to winning. That was always will work for me, and that's what all that's what works for most of the best defensive players in the NBA. It's not that they enjoy sitting in a defensive stance and running over picking rolls all day long. It's they love winning so much, or should say, they hate losing more

than they hate defending, you know what I mean. And from that standpoint, they they drive that to the top of their list and it becomes their number one priority, and all of a sudden, it starts to dictate what they do on the court. And that to me, that to me, is where it starts. And so this season to start, because there's been no urgency because of injuries, Frank has been forced to play some guys and he

was never able to build that urgency. Like what do you think Belief Monk is thinking right now, Like he's probably happy that the Lakers gotta win, right, but there's no way in the world that he's not sitting on his smartphone right now like kind of thinking to himself, like man, like I want to be out there, Like I think be out there so so how do you get out and Malik, you get out there by doing what Austin Reaves is doing, selling your soul on the

defensive end of the floor. You know, like like Malik Monks made more shots than than Austin this year. Malik Monk has made bigger shots than Austin this year. He made the biggest shot of the year probably and that in that three along the left wing with san Antonio. So what did the Laker fans care most about? They seem to like Austin more so far. Why because they want to win and they know that Austin right now

is helping them win to greater extent. So that's your pathway, Malik, that's your pathway to a bigger contract, that's your pathway to a bigger role, that's your pathway to being a significant piece on a winning basketball team. Is caring about the defensive end of the floor. So that urgency I think will trickle down into his physical tools being applied in the proper, proper way, which is selling out on the defensive end. And he can be he can and

should eventually be a good defensive player. I think he has that capability. Yeah, he has like the letic tools, right, it doesn't really have the size. But also, like Malik Monk, I think that that's all true. And again, like to play on Vogel's team, I think you're gonna have to defend at a certain level. But Lik Milik Monk was brought here to get buckets, right, to score, Like that's the main reason kind of why they brought him here. I think there's line up stuff you can do as well.

It's like, but the Milik Monk, you still see this like untapped potential, right, But when you see Carmelo, you're like, he's not going to get better defensively, right, Carmelo is just gonna be who he is. So there's like this line you kind of you kind of have to walk

with it. I think link Monk will be better, But again, like I still see him as a guy that was brought here to get buckets, and which is why I would like to see him kind of with that starting group or play more minutes next to a d next to Lebron, two guys who can kind of cover for him defensively. He was pulled really quickly because of his defense, but also I thought like he was next to I think it was next to Melo and he was next to Dwight and one other person. I don't remember who

it was. But it wasn't a great defensive line of either. But you're right, yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't a great line of your really quickly to throw to throw Malika bone to your point, like, well, like I said, the two important qualifiers are it needs to be Lebron in a D carring and they need to be in that baseline of athletic town. Like the point is is like even Kyle Kuzma, if I threw him out there and some of those garbage lineups, he's

going to get barbecued too. So there's a there's a baseline here. Like Carmelo looked pretty solid defensively in Crunch Times tonight. Why because he was around Baysmore and Bradley and Lebron in a D. So you so you're a thousand percent right about that part, Like you need to set them up to succeed, but they also have to

meet you halfway. Like it's it's part part of Frank setting him up to succeed, but it's also part of them, you know, agreeing to the commitment that Frank is asking for sure, and I feel like we're gonna rewatch like that first half is gonna look so different to me, Like they didn't even make the calves make like two decisions. It was just a quick like screen roll, wide open shop for Lori Market and wide open dunk for Jed Allen.

In the second half, they really tied it down. I wanted to ask you this because was Rondo Rondo wasn't hurt? Was he well? I think he was on the injury report for something, but I think it was still able to play. But we got zero Rondo Westbrook lineup tonight. Actually Ron don't even play, So I'm wondering, what do you think? Was that just him hurt? Was that him now kind of getting out of the rotation? What do you think? Because that's what I noticed big in this game.

There was no Rondo Westbrook lineup to piss us off tonight. And maybe that's just because he was kind of I think he was nursing, like a sore ankle or something like that, but no no minutes from I don't think I think it's all Lebron. I think it's ro. It's that simple, like he was out of the rotation. I think after the first game or after the second game. It was all about the fact that when Lebron went down, they needed playmaking in those bench lineups, and so they

had to go to Rondo. And for the record, like you know, this is the one big thing that had me like chill out about the last couple of games, because then even the Spurs win was ugly as all hell, you know, but like what like what b what was the what was the exact quote that Basemore said. Oh yeah, he was like He's like we were without our head. Haunt showed and that's the truth. That's the truth, man.

Like you know, we talked, we we talked extensively about Anthony Davis and some of his shortcomings in terms of

like leadership um uh in the last pod. And there's some truth to that, Like there there are guys that that kinda are going to do better when they get behind the more boisterous personality, and that's what what Ron is and in all of the guys they like the whole when when he went down, everything fell out of whack, including but not limited to they had to play Rondo because they needed somebody to put all these guys in the right spots offensively, and and that was why they

had to pill play Rondo. But you're right, I don't think it's associated with the injury. My hope is that if Lebron is healthy, you won't see Rondo unless it's garbage time. Yeah for sure. But yeah, I thought that was just interesting, uh that we didn't get to see him, and it was just purely purely Russ and Lebron kind of running the show. And I thought they found some

gooding in lineups with that. Russ got to play with a D at the five with a couple of shooters I think it was Russ Reeves, a D Carmelo and one other person, and that worked. Russ got to the rim. You saw him like be able to open up, attack the basket, find a D. I thought they found some things that worked tonight. So this is a good window. I feel like, do you have anything else from tonight to really touch on? I'm good man, let's get like two collars up here and calling tonight for sure, Lebron

twenty three? Are you there? So what's going on in so obviously you know I remember I came on after the Okay, see game, and I was kind of talking a bit more about Frank and things that he needed to do offensively and with lineups, and I think especially the second half of the third quarter and the fourth quarter, you saw a lot more of like stuff that I think I expected from the team, especially defensively because I think we lose him. Yeah, I think I think it

might have cut off. Well. He did bring up something interesting though about Frank, because you would you and I had specifically mentioned that the formula of the team was give Frank the defense and give Lebron the offense. And we kind of saw that tonight, right You saw you saw Frank implemented defensive scheme with personnel that completely shut down Cleveland, and then you saw Lebron picked him apart

on the other end. So the partners if the partnership only works if you know the offensive coordinator and the defensive coordinator are both there. In the offensive coordinator was gone for the last two games, So there's I will always stand behind Frank because I don't think it's a coincidence what happened the last two years. Yep, me either. I feel like I don't know, I'm getting this weird like feeling with a d kind of also walking through

these games. Like, like we said, we give him a lot of slack, but like he's the one that's twenty eight, he should be the one that's going off. But maybe it's just rubs off from from Lebron And also but the whole point of Russ was to kind of wake them up through these games, right, Like so it's kind of a strange thing kind of going on. Harsh Are you there? Yeah, yeah, I'm here. What's going on in?

I'm good? How are you? We're doing well? Okay? So, uh, I guess the twenty three just mentioned about Google's line up staying I was in this uh the room. We

were discussing the same thing that you don't know. Google made the right adjustments in this game to you know, effectively because you know, in last game, I remember that there was one line up which had Westbrook and Rondo in it, and I don't know what Bogle was thinking to put Westbrook and Rondo at the same time on the floor, because you know, to ball dominant guys two ball handlers, uh, effectively, you know, they are useless without

the ball in their hands. But you know, Bocal did the right things, Uh, we made mostly the right adjustments called the time out, not the right times to make, you know, really change the momentum of the game in

our favor. So prop two over for that, you know, and I wanted to ask you on your opinions about what is what will be Carmelos and carmel Anthony's role when you know, uh n n and all those guys will will be coming back from injured because you know, we won't see Carmelos shooting ball that much, you know, when these guys come back. So it's still and things.

So first of all, with Frank, we need to give Frank a very important compliment or very important bit of slack, and that's that he when the ship hits the van, he will make adjustments. He you know, all season in the championship year, it was all smooth sailing, right, Like the Lakers just dominated throughout the regular season, so we didn't see him have to do too much and people

would complain about lineups here and there. But then when push came to shove and they were playing Houston and Houston wasn't playing a center, guess what, we didn't play center. So you know, for for all of the things, that people give Frank a hard time for when push comes

to shove, he makes the adjustment. And what was interesting about this season is it happened earlier, right like you were expecting this, this transition to defensive oriented players to eventually happen, but it happened in the fifth game because they were having they were having issues with with defense. I've caused him to fall down two and three like the urgency struck early this year, and Frank made adjustments.

But the thing you mentioned about Carmelo was interesting because I'm not worried about None coming back or th HD coming back affecting his minutes. The big one is gonna be Trevor Reasa. So when Trevor Reason comes back, if he's hitting thirty eight percent of his threes, you kind

of have to play him instead of Melow. But if he turns into something more like what Wesley Matthews was, where you know, three out of four nights he goes one for six from three or worse than I think, you have to go with Carmelo because as the fifth player alongside all of those other defensive players, Mellow is okay enough defensively that his super high offensive ceiling becomes worth it. But Trevor Reasa is so much better defensively that if he can knock some shots down, I think

Melo's minutes and up going to him. What do you think, Roger, Yeah, like I've always said, I wanted mellow kind of the ten to fifteen minute kind mark. Right now he's playing I think like twenty plus UM, and we'll see if that kind of continues. But yeah, having him as a space so like, if his shot is going, that's a huge threat to put next to. Like I always said, next to Russ ron a d you need like some

knockdown shooters. I thought Wayne Allenton could be that guy, and maybe he can't defend at a baseline level enough to play. But Carmelo is a guy who's also a fearless shooter. He's guy's gonna take the shot when it's open. Um. I think that's a big kind of thing playing next to these guys and he's gonna play. UM. I don't know how much. When those guys get back, we'll see, we'll see how a reason plays. A Reason should be

the guy, like you said, Jason, that fits right into that. UM. But I think th HD is also going to get a shot. But yeah, I would like Carmelo at that TIF mark. But if he's hot, like he can play, um, if you can cover up for him defensively like we saw tonight, if you put him next to bron and a D when they're engaged as help defenders, you can kind of hide Carmelo in that way where it's tougher

to pick on him. And I think he'll play. I think a guy like that who's a knockdown shooter, I think he's over again this year on his Catain shoots, those like isolation shots. You'd like the host kind of be minimal, but that's just that's kind of the game you get when you get Carmelo on the floor, but he's taking and making threes like that. It's electric. It's especially if you combine it with the engaged defensive Brown and Eddy. So we'll see. I don't know if a reason.

I think the reason is going to come in and play a big part. But if mel sitting shots, he's gonna play for sure. Yeah, And the thing is about you know somebody. I remember in the second quarter he was being targeted back to back, you know, in the picking roll positions because you know he wasn't contributing much defensively, So I think about what the Carmelo's shortcomings are. You know, he tends to go you know, what do you call it? It tends to go cold sometimes because I don't know,

so that that that accounts for somebody. So that was my that was my concern. What would be Carmelos futurement and come back comes back? Because you know, Desai is a better defender and Mogil tends to lean towards a better defensive player and compromise a bit of offense on

the offense because he's a defense find good. Yeah, I agree, Yeah, I mean there's alwa there's always a balancing act, right like if on any given night, you know, it could be a very Bradley, it could be Malik Monk, you know, it could be Trevor Reasa, it could be Carmelo Anthony. That's the the option that exists now that did not

exist in previous seasons. And previous seasons you went with you know, Shrewder and KCP, or you went with Danny Green and KCP and you just you crossed your fingers and you hope they made shots, you know, because they're just there was no better option. And the difference with

this year is Frank will have options. It's gonna be like, hey, this particular team, on this particular night, I prefer that little extra bit of offense, even if we give that little inch away on the defensive end in crunch time with Molik Monk or with with Carmelo Anthony those that is to me. To me, it's a versatility is all it is. And so that that's why I was a

fan of the moves over the summer. The problem, the thing that I know failed to account for, at least early on, is that you know, your defensive identity comes from a group, It comes from a like a total vibe in the locker room, and when you trade out a bunch of defensive minded players for offensive minded players, sometimes that whole identity shifts. And so that's gonna be their challenge this year is making sure that they recapture that identity with this group of guys. But I in theory,

having options is good. It makes for more decision making on Frank's part, which obviously is a challenge, but it's a good challenge if that makes sense. But then you could see him kind of looking for those defensive minded players, which was why I think Gavery Brawdley is gonna play a whole time going forward. And he's a guy that's also connected to that team. I think it just makes sense with the injuries we have. He fits kind of

the Kendrick Nunn spot I guess for right now. UM, and I think Austin Reeves as well since he's defending. He's playing pretty well. But Marge, I appreciate you coming up. We're gonna get um one more person up here and then uh call it to night. Thanks hating man, appreciate it. Thank you. Yes yo, yo, can you hear me? We can hear you. What's going on? Man? Okay, joined kind of late, so I don't know if you guys covered this already. My apologies, but I wanted to talk about

um uh like an identity age with the team. So I know a lot of the times that people are talking about how they're trying to recreate UM like a defensive oriented team just with like a like a steroid it up offense and like if you get what I'm trying to say. But right I think that I think that what we saw today is that that throughout three quarters of a game, the Lakers are like trying to keep it close, just trying to find out, especially early

in the season, what's working and what's not. And then once they like walk in they can get like key stops down the stretch instead of doing what they did the last two years, which is like getting stops every single like quarter. And um, I don't know, what do

you guys think about? Um, like just like that kind of identity instead of clamping for a whole forty eight minutes because I know, like, for example, last year, Miami was like they had a bunch of like terrible guard defenders in terms of like not like overly terrible, but like they weren't like good defenders, but they had to like exceptional defenders in Bam and Jimmy right, And that was their formula as well, which is like just get the key stops down the stretch because you have two

of the best defenders in the league. And that's like similar to what the Lakers have right now. So I don't know, like what you guys have to say about that. So we we did talk a little bit about the identity earlier, but just to kind of take it a step further with what you're bringing up, like you know the problem. So Pete Pete from Like a Film Room has been hitting on this a lot on on his pop this idea that like, can you go on defensive runs? Can you have a five minute stretch where you put

a game away? And for the record, that's what the Lakers did tonight, they had a couple of defensive runs. So that is, in essence, what a defensive identity is. However,

it's a it's a balancing act. Like you. This is why I like tracking defensive rating over the course of the season, because if your defensive runs are too few and too far between, it'll manifest as a defensive rating that's I'm where in the range instead of top five range, right, and that that can be a problem that can cost you not only basketball games in the regular season, but

that is your identity. At that point, you are a team that only defends for short bursts and for the rest of the game coasts and that becomes your identity. The reason why identity matters is that's what you fall back on when the ship hits the fan, when it is a when it is a game four and it's series is two to one, and it's the third quarter and the scores seventy two and Lebron's jumpers not going in and Anthony Davis is jumper is not going in, and that the other team is kind of shutting off

the rim and you're having trouble scoring. Like that's adversity, and in those moments you always fall back on what your identity is, which your habits are. And so that's why, Like, if you are a team that just goes on defensive runs and over the course of the season those runs were few and far between, you might try to start that engine and it just might not be there. That gear that you're trying to hit might not be there

when you need it. In my opinion, the top five defensive team, a team that cares about that end and has that defensive identity, when they need to start that engine, it'll start, and they'll be able to get the necessary stops when they need to to carry them through troublesome stretches of NBA playoff games. So that's why I see it as so important. But we did talk more extensively about this identity change earlier in the pod, so you'll be able to listen to that on our podcast feed.

Uh here in about a half hour. I just want to quickly like speak on because I think comparing it to Miami, Like, I think that's very interesting, that's kind of fascinating to me. In Miami now Lass Kyle Lowry and they look pretty great at least onto events from the games that I've seen. But I think the Lakers their identity, Like you can talk about this identity and stuff, but it all wraps around Anthony Davis, right, Like that's or their identity should kind of start from and then

you can branch out from that. But if he looks disengaged from the first two courters, or he doesn't look like he's ready to be the help defender every single night, then you're just not gonna able to build this identity.

Like obviously not having the great guard defenders and Crusoe, k CP, even Danny Green, even Dennis Shrewder to his extent um, all those guys are great, but like this has to start with a D and until we see him kind of put his foot down like Vogel put his foot down, a D needs to put his foot

down as well. Right in that season, he talked about holding people accountable, you know, having Lebron make First Team All Defense, all this stuff um that he talked about, and we didn't really see it last year, um because then we gave some excuses for it, for the reasonings that there were. But this year it should be different. I need to see this every single nighte not just

from Lebron. I can expect it only from a few spots here and there, but eighties twenty eight, like this is his time to take over, at least on defense. I don't expect him be him to be the offensive engine, but he can be the defensive engine, um and be that identity that I guess. I think Butler and Bam are for Miami, like a D has to be that for us. But I think that's a great point. I like that comparison there from with Miami. Yeah, good stuff, man. Yeah,

I just I don't know. This team gives me the shades of light seen calves, where like there weren't really a good defense, but in the last quarter of a game, Like I don't know. Teams had a hard time scoring in the playoffs, especially too, just because like they were an offense like German team, but at the end of games, like you had Lebron James on the defensive end making plays and like Chumper and all them, So like, yeah, I don't know, that's what this team kind of reminds

me of. So yeah, that's why I just asked that the two seventeen Caves are an interesting comp and and one of the things that I think people forget about that team is, you know, as as much as they had the Warriors as an excuse, which I've always said that, Like, I think the Warriors being so good that year is exactly why Lebron let his foot off the gas Defensively, I think Lebron knew that there wasn't much of a chance, and he one of his biggest weaknesses is that when

when Lebron doesn't actually sense the trophy, he can be somewhat pouty and somewhat passive aggressive, and he can be lazy, and he can do those sorts of things. Um, but that's actually a really interesting comp I'm hopeful that this

is going to go a different direction very soon. Um. But I was literally tonight thinking about how they reminded me of the two thousand eighteen Cats, because the two thousand eighteen Caps used to consistently find themselves behind against bad teams, which was which was like a recurring theme throughout that season, Like it just was like, here they are playing the Knicks again and they're down by fifteen, and you're like, what in the world is going on

with this team? You know? But uh that that team also was pretty old if you remember. But but I'm hopeful that this team, based on what they've done in previous years with Lebron and Nydy, I'm hopeful that this team will shift away from that identity soon. But that certainly is their identity now and they deserve to be called out for that. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate it, guys. Thanks, thanks, appreciate you. Roger. Did you have anything else to night made? No?

I think that's good. I appreciate everyone that came and stayed on a on a Friday night here after a really nice win. Yes, thank you guys all so much. As usual. Um, we will be back on Sunday night for the Rockets game. This will be airing on actually may not be airing on dash radio because I guess our Houston show will air on dash radio, but this one will be on our podcast feed on on all of your podcast platforms within the next half hour, so

we sincerely appreciate you guys support. We will see you in a couple of days. Thanks everyone,