Episode 88: Lakers/Thunder Postgame Spaces

with how the game went. But yeah, this is definitely up there in the worst losses that we've had in the Lebron and A d era, and Lebron didn't play tonight, which shouldn't really matter. When you're up thirty, you should be able to keep lead you I feel like, yeah, to try really hard to blow a thirty point lead to a team like this who is deliberately losing thought, they're trying to process I'll let you, I'll let you go.

So there trying to process what just happened. So the way that I look at it is this loss doesn't say anything about the larger vision of what this Laker team is in terms of the way the pieces fit in terms of the talent level. But what it does, due to me is it reveals a certain missing you know metal, you know what I mean? Like that just that what one of the things that you noticed about that Lakers team, the one that won the title, was they just brought it in a certain way every night

that this team has not. And it extended into that season, as evidenced by their defense and how well they defended despite losing Lebron and Navy for massive to the season. But you're primarily looking at a game like tonight as just like the kind of game that championship teams find a way to win. That doesn't mean that they can't, you know, overcome this over the course of the season and find that championship medal. However, if you look at this as a little bit of a checkpoint, it's not

a good start because of course there was limitations. You've got three centers, six cards and Carmelo Anthony that's what you got to work with because of injuries, and a lot of your best defensive players are all wearing suits. But you're you have a you have way more talent

than you need to win this game. And uh, and to put it lightly they completely let their foot off the gas after getting that point lead, and then we're never able to regain control, and it's it's embarrassing, and it's to me, just a an example of the kind of you know, mental hurdle that this team is gonna

have to get over at some Yeah. I mean, like before we do these I always try to take notes, and in that first half, you know, it was pretty notes about like, yeah, Russ is starting to kind of find his groove as a bad attack in the rim and all that stuff and finding some chemistry with a D. And I kind of not to throw that all out, I guess just with how the game went, I thought that second half was awful for us, Like that was the epitome of bad rust and just thinking about it,

like the Lakers kind of maybe induced those bad habits with the way the a D played. He started settling. He saw the defense absolutely drop off. Oklahoma City got whatever they wanted. I think they had thirty seven in the second quarter, forty one in the third quarter. And this is not a team with like super offensive firepower, but like Josh Katy was coming off pick and rolls, doing whatever you wanted, and you let a team kind of get hot in that way. It's really hot, really

tough to turn off the fire, right Garius Basley. I think he was shooting like ten or twelve percent from three. He got cooking as well. He made a few shots, so the steamroll kind of came through. But I don't want to say this is nothing though, Like I feel like when you blow a thirty point lead to a team, um like that can stick with you now. So I'm really interested in how they come out Friday and look like this maybe nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I still think though, like this can't happen. I guess like when you have Russ and a D on the floor, your offense should not go through the lolls that it does. And I was just looking at the shock quality that both of these teams were getting. Oklahoma City was running things through Shay who I tweeted this tonight, like Shay is good enough to where you have to give at least somewhat of a crap, right, Like Shay is that level of talent. Like Oklahoma City is a bad team.

They have a lot of really young players. I said, they're not feeling a real basketball team. All that's true. Shape is the real dude though. He's the real deal, and you have to give a crap to a baseline level where the Lakers just didn't, and that kind of steam rolled Shay got cooking. We were they started picking on Mellow. I thought there was too much Mellow tonight. We can get into that as well. Um, they really

picked on him. Uh, Shay, every time Melow was on the floor, it's a quick bring Mellow up to the screen, you know, and Mellow goes under and uh, it's just a quick step back three that they were just giving him, and that's his shot. Like, that's what Shaye likes to get to, a step back three, and he got cooking. And once that happened, and then our offense fell off a cliff um, and then the turnovers came from Russ.

It's just this is just a really awful game, and like two and three is not at the end of the world. It just feels like that win in San San Antonio should have been something to build off of, and now they have to kind of regain that momentum again. Yeah, you know, it's funny because at the end of that game, I thought both Russ and Anthony Davis got exposed as

players that have a form of offensive limitation. That is something that's going to come back to haunt this team, in particular on nights like tonight when Lebron can't go um. Russ is a god awful jump shooter, just an awful, awful, awful, awful jump shooter. And so when you put a guy like Lucan's doors on him, a guy who can go underneath screens and Russ cannot physically bully a guy that's gonna beat him to the spot half the time and take away the ring him and he just playing off

in baiting Russ into taking jump shots. It severely limits what he's capable of doing offensively. And then I tweeted about this earlier. You know Anthony Davis. He uses the shot that the type of shot that all the best players in the league used to rescue bad possessions, you know, the contested fadeaway jump shot. A d uses that as bread and butter, which is just bad process. And he and and it's something that that it's it's been hidden and masked by the fact that this team has arguably

the best player in the world on it. And it's something that it's something that is eventually going to have to be a point of emphasis for Anthony Davis because in that fourth quarter, ironically, offense became the issue, not because the Laker, like the Laker defensive lineup that they played was horrid. I I didn't understand going with so

much mellow. I would have used as San Antonio type approach him last night, where you go big and you just count on this really young team to just pointlessly drive into your size and struggle to finish around the rim.

That's what I would have done, but he went with mellow. Ironically, though, because of how limited Oklahoma City is down that stretch of that game, the Lakers did get a lot of stops, but they just could not score because every time they threw it to their best player, he was content to jab step and take a step back jump shot, which, again for the best players in the world, is a low percentage shot, you know, like im Katie's Katie's hitting step back jump shots with hands in his face at

like he's not like Anthony Davis is trying to use that as bread and butter, and it's bad process, and and and it was one of those things where at the end of that game, you almost feel to yourself, like, how are they going to get good looks? They're going under everything on Russ and Russ can't beat door to the basket, and if we go to Anthony Davis, he's taking a jump shot and it's probably not going in. That was that, that was what it came down to.

And so at the end of the game, your last few offensive possessions, they're trying to run something for Mellow or Monk to try to get somebody else to look because it's like the A D. Russ action just was not working because of the fact that Russ can't shoot and Anthony Davis was too quick to settle for the jump shot. It was. It was definitely an extremely frustrating game.

But at the end of the day, there's no point in evaluating a team that's that has Lebron James on the bench because they're not winning the title anyway without Lebron. So it's it's just one of those things where from like as a as a fan of this team over the last several years, they had a certain they had a certain characteristic about them that gave a ship more than the other teams in the league, and it led to those good habits that carried them in bad nights

and helped them win a lot of basketball games. And so far, and it's early, but so far that appears to be missing. And so the next thing I wanted to talk to you about before we get into our collars and everybody gets your question, because for the rest of the show tonight, we're just gonna be taking callers after Roger and I dig into this one little thing. But I this to me is part of the downside of a of a team that feels like it can

just outscore its opponent. And this was one of the things that we were worried about coming into the season, as an identity change that would come from the moves that they made. And I'm wondering what your opinion is on this on the Lakers lacks of daisical approach to defense so far this season, because I don't think it's all about personnel. This appears to be an identity thing early on, because there are enough good defenders in these lineups that they shouldn't be as bad as they have been.

Oklahoma City has scored over a hundred points one time this season before tonight, Like this is not a personnel issue. This is an effort and focus issue in my opinion. So I'm wondering what your thoughts are. Yeah, Well, before like I get to that, I just want to speak on your point that you said, like you can analyize this team without without Lebron in You're right, this seems

not winning a title with Lebron. But Leron is not gonna play forty eight minutes a game, like they have to find units that are successful without him, and like these and this is a perfect This was a perfect game to get like a practice run where Russ and a D can kind of figure things out right while winning the game comfortably. At least that's what it should have turned into. It should not have turned into this rock fight. And it's interesting watching a D try to

re rev up his engine, right. You could tell he kind of gave his all on that first quarter and said I'm done like that. That's what I'm giving you tonight. That was the first quarter, and then from there it was just a trickle down effect. And this kind of leads to your next question there with your identity thing, I think it is some of both. I think a D has to be the defensive leader of this team,

like just the way it works. And I've been saying before, like we've traded in these defensive guards, like you can joke about Crusoe, k CP all this stuff. We traded in defense for offense. That's what you did here, likes what we did this summer, like there was no qualms about it. It's it's true you're catering to russ as well, this super fast paced style at least to this kind of back and forth where and we have these blow average defenders were running this coverage where these guards are

absolutely giving no pressure. And I talked about it last night how I said it was no coincidence Jaw had forty on us. I didn't even look at the box car yet, and I'm not sure what she had on us, But I don't think those are like coincidental. I don't think it's an accident. This is going to keep happening until we kind of get healthy here. Um And again, pinning all this on th HD or reason Kendrick Nunn is probably an unfair way to look at it as well.

And these lineups are not really efficient defensively either. These ROHNDO Westbrook lineups like those are all in it. I think your identity question is correct to this all. Then a d like he has to be the defensive anchor every single night. This should be a night where you can shut down the Oklohoma is gonna be thunder. There's no reason they should be getting lay up after lay up. But just our guards aren't those kind of players. You see that Russ and Malik Monk and all these other

guys are trying to tag the rollman. It's like layups for Dereck Favors, Derek Blue Doors getting right to the basket. They're picking our Carmelo. It's just a lot of bad defense and when our offense guys just go cold, which they did. We had seventy two points is that right at halftime or something like that, and then we had like thirty We had like a hundred and five with like three minutes left in the fourth, So like we have like thirty points in the second half or something.

Just like I agree with your identity point, but I also think like these are bad defenders like that, and they're trying to fit into the scheme with Vogel. We're running this like drop coverage kind of scheme, but the guards are getting whatever they want, these mid range kind of guards. So I don't really this is a frustrating loss like this. I don't think it's nothing like. I don't think you can throw this out if if that makes sense, like I don't. I don't think it's like

hampering to the season. I just I don't think you can throw this type of game out. Russ A D plus. You know, competent players should be able to take down an Oklahoma City team that's literally trying to lose. No, agree, I mean, look at Golden State last Yeah, they ran into the same problem the Lakers said today. They went down to Oklahoma City to play basketball game against the team that is going to play a hell of a lot harder than them, and they nailed it in for

almost three quarters. And then they hit the Jets like all those teams that have that type of character do, and they got the job done. They took care of business because all they needed was to turn it on for a little stretch of this game, and they were able to pull it out, especially on the defensive end.

If you look at their offense or their defensive rating in the first half compared to the second half last night, it looked like a team that was like, hey, we need to take care of business and beat Oklahoma City tonight, you know. And it's it's just you're right. It's not something that can be discounted as far as the identity thing goes. This is this is the way I look

at it. It absolutely is Anthony Davis's fault. Absolutely is because the way the way that I look at it, and this is and for the record, when Lebron comes back, it's absolutely his responsibility as well, and the same goes for us. You know, You're right. The Lakers traded out some personnel for guys that have a history of not giving a ship on that end of the floor, and so there was no universe where they were going to come in to start the season and care that that

that was not gonna happen. It was gonna have to be a slow building fire that builds in those guys to start giving a ship about defending. And here's the thing, Anthony Davis, with exception of a handful of stretches of these games, has been mailing it in defensively this year for for significant chunks of these games. And like the a d at the five lineups last night were horrible. They were horrible compared to the when they went big defensively.

I think it was like something crazy like a hundred. They gave up over a hundred thirty points for one hundred possessions with just a D on the floor last night. There's this is one of those things where and the way you gotta look at it, Anthony, is these guys

aren't going to care unless you do. You know, like in in the past, you know, Lebron and a d could Wax and Wayne on that end of the floor a little bit because everyone else kind of organically through their identity as a basketball player was the kind of person who would give give that level of effort. But

it's not going to happen with this group. If you want Mellow and Malik Monk and and all of all of these you know, limited you know, offensive oriented guards and offensive oriented players to start giving that extra effort on that end of the floor, it's gonna be because Anthony Davis and Lebron James and Russell Westbrook are selling their souls on that end of the floor to get stops.

And in the reality of the situation is both of these games ended up being incredibly close tough, physical games at the end, and these are the kinds of games that you need to avoid. You need to take care of business against these teams and beat him by ten fifteen points so that Anthony Davis isn't doubled over on the baseline clutching at his knee because on a critical rebound at the end of the game, somebody on the other team just jammed his knee into the side of

his knee. That's what happens in these super physical, crunch time games. You need to take care of business. It will it will come back to you physically. Yes, you'll have to give more effort, but it's the kind of thing that allows you to sit the fourth quarter tonight

so that you get rest. And so all I'm saying is like, yes, these guys are limited, but we we need to put a good percentage of this blame on the three Stars for coasting on that end of the floor because that inherently is going to trickle down to all the other players. And it's just it's just it's it's frustrating for me because again, like, do you understand how bad you have to be to let Oklahoma City

score that many points? Man Josh Giddy looked like I don't even know, like a mix of like Dame and step Step or whatever tonight, like just coming off picking rolls, like we had no answer and he was just picking on our defense. I'm gonna get like eighty I don't know, Like maybe he was just load managing through the game, but it was definitely frustrating. And it's not like he's

in super defensive, like great defensive lineups either. I guess like these lineups aren't great defensively, and that's kind of the line I'm trying to cross here between like we have a bunch of really bad defensives, we also have

our guys not buying in as well. Like I thought like that second, that second and third quarter from Russ it was just super erratic, right, Like I feel like he was trying to play hard, but like he got into this mode and you could tell he was kind of feeling it Oklahoma City and just got kind of crazy on both ends on defense as well. I thought he was going really hard, but it just led to these like really easy shots for Okay Se So like, yeah,

this is a really terrible loss. We're about to go through this stretch though, where we play all these bad teams, so like this is just the really first one. I guess San Antonio is a bad team as well. I just think they play at a baseline level enough to where they're not going to get blown out every game. But Home City is a bad game, bad team. Cleveland we play next, which is actually Cleveland's a good team. Yeah, Moble exactly. Moble is legit, Like he's a legit player.

He's been playing great, So like that's the team you have to you have to come with your a game for like you just and that's what they're gonna have to do. So hopefully this is just one that they get out of the way. This is really frustrating though, and it can stay with you though, Like if this is something that you can stay with, you can become a team that blows, like blows leads, you know what

I mean, like if you let it. So hopefully on they kind of picked this up and and and it just takes one to to kind of reverse the end, you know what I mean. It's I'm a big believer in those things getting in the back of your head, you know, like really cold, really cold shooting was something that got in the back of the heads of the Lakers last year and it became an issue or uh,

you know the you know the Clippers. The Clippers used to have like a little bit of a weird mental edge, like that Christmas Day game that they blew in that first season, you know. But you just have to take care of business once to change that. It all all it takes is like you beat Cleveland on Friday in a in a in a game that's gonna probably be pretty tough, although I hope Lebron comes back because they

need they this team needs him. And then and then you're gonna go back and play Oklahoma City again and play Houston twice, and if you roll those three games by points, that can reverse the psyche of something like what happened tonight. It's just you're always looking for these specific hurdles and check boxes along that championship pathway, and there are a bunch of them that I'm looking for with this team, like chemistry, like consistent effort, like caring

about the defensive end of the floor. And it's been rough so far. And again it's only been five games, so I don't want to take too much stock in it. But if you're asking me to evaluate the character, the championship character of this team through five games, even with the injuries. It's not pretty so far. Doesn't mean that it's the end of the world, just means it needs

to be addressed. And I'm hoping. I'm hoping. And I you know, one of my favorite things about Lebron for all of his weaknesses as a leader in when things are bad, because he has a tendency to, you know, pout and be passive, aggressive and do those kinds of things when when he's on teams that don't really have a chance to win. When Lebron is on a team that has legitimate championship opportunity, he's the best guy you

could have in the locker room. He gets it. He knows what the journey is like, he understands what can undercut a team like that. He gets And so I'm hopeful that Lebron's reading the tea leads here and identifies what needs to change for this group to start to hit those hurdles and to start to check those boxes. So I am optimistic, But Roy, do you want to get our first collar up there? Yeah? Let me see. Yeah,

hopefully Lebron can play Friday. You got to two games off here and hopefully the ankles rested up and he's able to go. But I agree with you, like they can fix this. It's just that this this one's gonna leave a bad taste in the mouth for a little while. Mm hmm. Alright, says it's connecting. I'm still trying to get used to the Twitter faces. Remember, guys, when they bring you up as some mut it's you gotta mute

yourself before you start talking. Alright, I got two people here to who connects first, and we'll go with them. Appreciate everyone kind of coming out on this uh terrible loss. Joe are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Can you hear me? Hey, how's it going? Guys? I caught like the fourth quarter? But man um, I just got a question for you all. Uh So we're year three or eighty in Lebron. This should be the shift where eight is actually the one who's kind of leading the charge. But unfortunately Fellas, I

just I just this guy. I just I'm fearful for the organization once Lebron leaves because this guy has not shown any type of He hadn't shown me anything that that says that he's gonna be the one that's gonna lead this franchise. I just I am just perplexed by this guy. I don't wanna, you know, think long term because I know we're in the season, but man, I just I just don't see it. Guys, and it's got me turn. You know, It's tough because I don't want to.

I don't want to start trying to paint a picture about a guy's hole, uh persona and in what he's capable of based on one specific circumstance. That said, I mean, I'm more worried about Anthony Davis as a future centerpiece in the sense that he has shown that he needs to be set up like he is not a primary initiator in a league where all of the best players are primary initiators, and so that becomes a significant shortfall.

So from that standpoint, inevitably Rob Point and Jeannie Buss are going to keep him surrounded by really cerebral basketball players who can get him set up for success, and inevitably the team is going to take on a certain amount of the persona of that person whoever that primary initiator is. However, the one thing that I would be concerned with a d is like, this is a guy that Laker fans have consistently preached is the best defensive player in the league. Right, Raji and I both believe that.

We think we think Anthony Davis is the best defender in the league. We think he's capable of winning multiple Defensive Players of the Year. But his peers, the Mbiads of the world, the honest Is of the world, the Ben Simmons of the world. They every single night go out there and put their physical imprint on the game as a defender. And Anthony Davis does it when he

feels like it. And so from that standpoint, like, I'm not worried about any of the uh like anything outside of that, the Lakers will be fine as soon as Anthony Davis identifies and understands his responsibility as the defensive lynchpin of this team. And and once he gets that year in and year out, then I mean, he's twenty

eight years old, and this guy's a limit. You can have seven straight years of this team being right in the thicker things, but he just needs to understand the power and the response ability that comes with being who he is and and what he's capable of when he actually tries to put his physical imprints on the game.

And I've heard this question a lot, and I really don't even want to think about, like life after Lebron already, like Lebron has shown really no signs of it really slowing down at all, like any signs of dropping as a player to me, So I don't really want to go with that thinking about a D as number one option,

like he's always gonna need to be set up. He's not Nicola Yokits right where you can just give him the ball at the top of the key and have your offense kind of run through him with players running around, Like that's just not the player he is. But you can build a team around a D. You you just find another shock creator, and you're not gonna find another one as good as Lebron. Probably there's only one Lebron ever, But you can still build a team around him and

his defensive skills. And like in when when the A D came here his first year, he was that defensive monster every night though, like this wasn't some every other night kind of thing. And maybe that's just the way this season has started, or how the defenders are this year.

But the whole point again of bringing Russ, if you remember one of our talking points of positives upbringing Russell Westbrook guy of his type of tenacity every night was to push a D. Right, that was the whole kind of point of this, Like was like Russ's every night energy is supposed to kind of transfer over to a D. And we've seen that in spurts in here and there. But that should be sudding that's every night. And maybe

that's another thing that takes time as well. But yeah, like thinking about a D as the best player on the team, like that's just not where we are yet, Like it's just not Lebron still the best player, which is crazy in year nineteen, but is it is what it is. I really don't want to think about that dropping off. But yeah, but a D has to be better for sure, Like he needs to. This needs to

be an every night defensive thing. This team doesn't have enough defensive talent to make up if he's not every nine.

And you saw what happened tonight. There's teams a million times better than Okay, see that will run you out of the gym if he doesn't appreciate Yeah, Joe, thank you so much propping appreciate it, and just to piggyback on what Rogers just saying like that that it was Anthony Davis's pier, the one that we all measure him against, your honest right, that's the guy, you know, Lebron, we measure against, maybe Janice and Kevin Durant, you know, maybe

even Staff depending on who you ask, and uh Kauai, but you know the guy that everybody measures Anthony Davis against his nice And there are two factors with the two of them that are massive differentiators. Janice has put the time in to become gifted enough with his ball handling ability in his floor vision to bring the ball up the floor and to initiate offense. He can run a pick and roll. As the ball handler, he can break the guy down consistently ten fifteen times a game

from the perimeter. Anthony Davis is far more gifted as a ball handler than most centers, but if you watch him compared to Janice, he just doesn't have that level of comfort to stare a guy in the face, hit him with the move ten fifteen times in a game, and and get and and create stuff from the perimeter, and then Secondly, it's that consistent night in the night

out effort. Honest is just it binds me of young Lebron in the in the way that he just every single night, regardless of who he's playing, is going to make his physicality felt by everybody on the floor and leave that imprint. And so what's disappointing is coming off of last year where everybody could make the excuses that Anthony Davis, you know, had a rough, had a rough quick turnaround from the bubble, and he needed to kind of ease his way into the season. Well that's not

the case this year. Get plenty of time off, you're healthy, you're you're the guy everybody measures you against. Just drop fifty in Game six and now he has the finals MPP Trophy, Like, what's your move? Man? Show me what you got? Like, I think it's okay to ask him that, especially as someone who fancies himself as one of the top tier stars in the league. You know, yeah, I agree with And for the most far, I think A

d has been pretty good to start this season. Like I think tonight was a slow one, but like for the most right thought he's he's played well. But yeah, it has to be every night because his team just can't. I can't survive without him. And when he came out of the game tonight, like I guess my, well, I'll let Dom kind of speak. What's up, Don? But like we've seen, we've seen like a D play the five a lot tonight, but it's all next to Carmelo, which is just a really strange lineup thing that I guess

we can get into a little later. But Don, what's up? Man's up? Broach what's going on? Don't? Man? I don't. I don't know, Man, I feel I think this was the first game where I felt really frustrated. But like trying to put it into perspective, all right, second night of back to back we had like what nine available players? Three centers sick, so we had ten. Not bad. I think it was frustrating because you could just explicitly like towards the last three minutes of the second quarter, they

just like took you know, they just lost focused. They just stopped playing, and it's it seemed like they were kind of like expecting, like, you know, what this is done, Like we were up seventy forty four. They would they're young things, they would just like kind of like go through the motions as you know, like like us, and like part of me is like, you know, this is kind of like a deserving loss with them, kind of like it's like a humbling loss, you know what I'm saying.

But like, I think part of my frustration is like I did not expect a team full of veterans, full of future Hall of famers that needs to be by the basketball gods, you know. And I think Jason made a really good point about a d was like, all right, you were affected by the fact that people were, like you see all the slander, you know, through the going

on this summer. You see people putting the honest above you even though you just literally want a championship and argue, but we could have been the finals M v P. And you know, even though he looked good physically, you know, I mean, given to night, maybe he was tired, I mean understandably so second night of the back to back, coming off an overtime game against the Spurs where he played forty minutes. But I don't know how I tweeted this.

I was like, the defense smiles every time he takes like a low percentage jump shot, and I don't know, because I just didn't get like why he just went away from attacking the rim where he had so much success the entire first half. And the thing is, he wasn't even doing so much the entire first half. When he was attacking the rim. He would literally just you know, step through, spin, moved, dribble a couple of times, hook shot. He was making all of them, catching lobs, catching easy

dump offs. So I was like, like, what happened? You know, But I don't know. I think long term it should kind of like I guess, humbled him or sharpened them a little bit. But yeah, that's just where my head is at right now. I agree with everything you're saying. I mean, you need to have something that um that it's kind of like a wake up call that that

that establishes the need to fix your problems. Right, Like you know, there's if you play six or seven good teams in a row, you're just gonna lose a lot if you have bad habits, and so inherently you're going to find a way to get something going to help you win games. Well with uh, with a game like tonight, if anything, if there's one silver lining, it's so bad that it's kind of like a slap in the face and something that you can't look yourself in the mirror

and pretend like there's not a problem anymore. And so I'm hoping that that's kind of turns into a galvanizing it turns into a galvanizing force for this team too. It's like because like some of those games, like the Warriors and Suns, like those are games that you can learn from, you know, because like obviously Warriors and Sons to have been connality. They've been running their system for god that was how many years now, But this is like a game where you're just like you just throw

away because like you you basically just lost it. And I feel like rather than like watching film and I think it's like what you said, it's more like a self reflection, all right, like for all of them, even even the coaches, because I really like what Jason tweeted, like I think we were we we we were down one and then um Okaye had the ball and we were looking for things like one minute left or less than a minute left, and we were looking for a stop and then they took a time out, and I

was really surprised that Mellow as poor as he was shooting the entire game, and he was being hunted. And then somebody even said that Josh Giddy was giddy every time he sees Mellow in front of him. So I was surprised Vogel he had Bradley Reeves and even Dwight. I think I thought Dwight or brad or Reeves would have been a better choice, but he stuck with Mellow

on there. But what we're trying to get stopped, and so I was just like why, like, you know, there's so many I don't know if you know there is, there so many mistakes both from the players, and I think, yeah, I said it for where it's a lot of Mellow and Vogel really doesn't have a choice though we don't really have any other power forwards, and again it's like it's why you see a D play the five and it's really just Mellow at the four next to him,

even when it's Lebron out there, it's Lebron Mellow and and a D. So yeah, really really rough. Now, I think you said a bunch of correct things on your point about eighties, like settling for jump shots. I think part of that is also playing like with Bigs, like the paint is packed um and it gets he gets induced and gets baited into taking jumpers. Russ has a very similar issue. I feel like Russ took every single bait tonight that the Oklahoma City gave him, every single

three that that they went under the screen. He decided to take it. That won late in the game, that three, I don't remember, I fills in the corner or something, but they're just flying under his screens. And he took every bait tonight. Second half I feel like was all the total bad rust that you're gonna get right. I thought the first quarter he was pretty okay, getting assists and all that stuff, and the second half you saw kind of the totality of what can happen when it

goes wrong. I meanbe that's just when the team is doing all these bad habits. It kind of induces Russ into his bad game as well. I'm not sure, but we're gonna learn more as as the season goes. But yeah, this was a this was a rough night. Like you know, Don Doum, you're calling out that play. It was interesting that, uh, you know, when you have a shortage of time outs, you can't do offense defense subs because you need to make sure that you're properly equipped for the following possession.

But on that play, with less than a minute left down by one, absolutely positively need to stop. Two timeouts remaining. I literally can't think of a single reason why Frank didn't do an offensive defensive sub. It was confusing to me. And I mean part about that too is before that play, Okaye was the want to call it time out, so which means we still had a time out. You know what I'm saying. We had two time outs. We had two time outs out there, and there were fifty seconds left.

So in theory, you could have you could have gotten to stop retained possessions somewhere around thirty thirty five seconds, called the time out, made a substitution to get Melo back on the floor, and then inevitably you have that one last time out remaining should you not be able to get a stop and have to intentionally foul so that you can use it to advance the ball, you know, with ten eight seconds left, whatever it just it was.

It was really confusing for me, and and you know, you can it's really easy with every coach in the NBA to nitpick the two or three things every night that are confusing. So I'm not you guys know, I'm one of the biggest Frank fans out there, but I was just confused that that, to me was a golden opportunity because that little pick and role play they ran, uh,

trying to tag Favors on the backside. If that's Dwight Howard guarding the action and Anthony Davis tagging the roller, it's just not gonna work like you're gonna get a stop. So I just I just thought it was that was one mistake ache that might have given the Lakers a

better chance to win the game. But even if even if they would have stolen this game, I mean, come on, guys, these are all still problems, you know what I mean that it would have been fools gold and just you know, if they would have managed to pull that game out, you know what I mean, there was two and a half quarters a bad process there to end that one. And then just I just want to say, I'm not like I don't want to sound like an anti eighty or like, you know, like I'm not here. I just

want to know he's just like a really frustrating. I think this this uh tonight, I think eighties playing specifically second half. It just made me feel bad for calling pals offt like back in Oh wait, that was a hot shoot, Like I gotta take that back. No, but like I'm pretty sure, like like has like how a d I've done before. I'm pretty sure this Friday you're gonna you know, he's gonna have a bounce back game.

And a lot of things are enough, are you Like what you said there, Like more of this is self reflection, you know, like because I game don't even throw that tape for sure, and you know, and Anthony Davis look man like, first of all, you gotta understand what our job is, right, like, not just as fans, but as analysts and people who watch the game, Like, you know, we're no one's paying us to post bail for people, you know what I mean, Like, there's no reason for us to not tell it the way we see it.

At the same time, we have to have a certain amount of understanding and and you know, empathy for what these guys have to put up with on a day and day out basis. But here's the reality of the situation. Anthony Davis you are considered a top tier superstar by the vast majority of people. So there's a certain level

of you know, standard that comes with that. You know, and like if you want to be the guy that gets cut a ton of slack every time he goes out and has a rough night against a bad team and loses, then you can go hang out with the dudes that are in the fifteen twenty range in the NBA. You know what I mean? Like this is this is what comes with being the guy on a team that

has shaped being ship aspirations. Like if you mail it in and against the team that literally hasn't scored over a hundred points but once all season, and you mail it in, like some criticism is gonna come away. That's part of being Anthony freaking Davis, the guy that can go give forty and twenty anytime he wants. You know what I want? You know what I mean, like to me, to me, it's fair criticism, pretty sure, And we've seen

him do it like it was again last year. I kind of throw away as this anomally year, but likewy it was every night and that's the kind of a DA expected this season, and I thought he started the season actually pretty well. Tonight was just a really a really bad game for pretty much the whole team was a well, I don't want to throw it all onto a d as well. I thought Russ was just really awful in the second half. But it's on him. You're

right to play defense that way and he can't. He should be in the running for Defensive Player of the Year every year, and that's that's the talent he has. I say, he's the top five player, top five talent when he's right, when he's on, and that's that's what they need from especially with Lebron out, Like this was a game where they needed him to kind of put his foot on the gas and he really just didn't.

It was step back jumper. Someone went in, but you just tell it was just there was no aggression there and that's it led to this this loss. M thanks for coming on. It was good to hear from you. Let's see try to go through these a little quicker here. Carmelo Actually, just while we're waiting for it to connect, Carmelo has one for twelve from three the last two games. By the way he left that you could have that was about two ft short on that game. Like he

completely alogate Algate armed. That was rough. Yeah, that's Carmelo. You have him out there, He's gonna shoot like it's going to be himself, unapologizical, unapologetically. Um, what's going on? Man? I think? Is it Lebron twenty three? Yeah? What's up? What's going on? So? I mean, I just want to talk about more about Frank Vogel more than the players themselves, because certain decisions he's made this season just don't make

much sense to me. Um and and it goes with like even you know, even though we gave up twenty six point lead at the end of the game, we had multiple timeouts to draw something up to get a better shot, and it ended up being Russ taking a long free or um Monk having in isolation at the top at the top of the three point line and then jacking up for free. These these are not like good plays that are drawn up. And then also, defensively,

I feel like the rosters took a step back. And then, you know, I get what you guys are saying about a d defensively maybe not being as locked in as he was or has been the last couple of years.

But I feel the personnel, and this roster to suit what Frank lies to do defensively because prem to all the guards are getting crushed on screens and all of a sudden, you're leaving the big weatherest White or a D or DJ in a situation where he has to guard a guy that's coming up, probably to pull up for a jump shop or god the big and we saw yesterday the Spurs center went off for like twenty four points or twenty seven points, and I think that

was his career high like stuff like that. I don't think it was gonna was happening the last season or even in the first season with A D and l A. So I just want to know, get you guys foughts on Frank Vogel more, because I think he's doing a really bad job as a coach so far this year.

And obviously it's just five games, but I think he really needs to improve what he's doing on both ends, because also running lineups with Ross and Rondo in the back court is not a good offensive line up in So I just want to get you guys fauts or not. So I want I want to defend Frank a little bit here for a minute, Uh, First of all, it

has not been perfect. I mentioned I'm mentioned them state that he made tonight in my opinion, and then I thought some of his lineup decisions, particularly against Golden State, we're we're genuinely confusing. But he's kind of in between a rock and hard place here. The when you look at who's healthy on this roster, it's not really, Uh, you're not gonna be able to run traditional basketball lineups, you know, the way that especially in the modern NBA,

the way that they're supposed to be put together. He's kind of just sticking stuff together with duct tape, trying to survive until th HD and Kenny mcnun and Lebron James can come back. So I do want to constance slack on that side of things. As far as offense goes in terms of like play design, that's never been his specific strength relative to his peers. He's never gonna

be Brad Stevens. That's not who he is. But what he is, in my opinion, is by far the best defensive coach and basketball he That's what he brings to the table, and the way that this whole Laker formula is designed to work is like, Hey, like Strength, you're running things on the defensive end, and Braun you're running things on the offensive. And that's how it works. Now when you when we look at actions and and really complex you know, UH, play design, that kind of thing

has a certain amount of value. It does. I don't

want to undercut that. However, when it comes to the postseason at the highest level of basketball, when you're playing the very best defenses that are most likely going to be switching everything little cute actions here and there and baseline out of bound play designs and stuff coming out of time out, the value of those kinds of things falls off a cliff because of uh, any discipline defense at that point in the season is going to take away the type of easy shots that those are supposed

to develop. And that's where a guy like Lebron becomes immensely valuable and a guy like Anthony Davis becomes immensely valuable because it becomes about matchups and it becomes about gaining advantages in one on one or two on two situations so that you can try to claw out some easy shots against a really good defense. And so, from that standpoint, if this is not this is not the

setting where you're gonna see Frank bring his value. Frank's value comes from bringing the very best out of this roster defensive belie when they actually have their pieces, and carrying them to the point where Lebron can out execute teams in the half court in the playoffs, when the trophies on the line. And so in that standpoint, like, I just don't think it's fair to measure Frank uh you know, for not for what he's not brought here for, if that makes sense. And Frank Frank has always had

like really confusing lineups. So if we remember that first year he played uh Rondo with Lebron a bunch and it kind of made our head scratch. And I said, over the summer, we were definitely gonna get Rondo Westbroog lineups. And maybe that's just a situation that had to come from injuries, but it's what we're getting right now. And I don't think he's gonna switch up his defense like

he's gonna he's gonna play this style. He's playing the two bigs, And again, maybe that's the right decision, maybe it's not, but he's gonna be himself. You want a title kind of doing that and Yeah, these guards aren't great for his system for sure, but he's gonna stick with it. This is the system, the defensive system that he wants to run. He's gonna have his players adjust

to that, not adjust, I guess to the personnel. And I think if you wait for the guys to get healthy t t um a reason, even like Kendrick Nunne, those guys kind of fit better. But again, right now, those like our guards, like you said, are dying on these screens, and these guards are these offensive guards are

getting whatever they want. But I just can't blame Frank Frank Vogel for a team losing a three d point lead like that's to me, that's on your superstars, Like that's on like the guys on the floor um killing the momentum of the other team. Like I just can't go and blame like Frank Vogel for that. I guess

he had questionable lineups. I agree with you that last play where we needed the three and we just literally gave it to Mike Monk at the top of the key and said do something like I was shocked that was the play we ran. But but I like, to me, I I can't put too much of this on Vogel, I agree with like what a lot of what you guys are saying, But I think this year is it's a bit different than the last two years because the roster is so different because before we had you know,

Danny Green, KCP Crusoe. Then it's shrewd. These guys are defensive guards that are going to stay in front of them and every time. And obviously we don't have all our guys back, and there's only five games into the season, so you can't really make too many conclusions at this point. But I don't know, I'm just a bit worried that he's kind of not really the coach for this specific roster.

And that's not to say that he won't be successful or anything, but I just think, like, you know, we we brought in a lot more offense and lost a lot of defense, especially on the perimeter um compared to last season and even comparing the roster to the first season of Vogel in l A. So I don't know, I'm just a bit worried that he's not really the coach for this team specifically. But it's just five games

and obviously we're gonna get some guys back. Um, so hopefully I'll just be like ironed out for our the season. But I'm also is a bit worried about the fit of Ross as well, because especially today, some of the turnouvers and some of the salt that you were taking, these are things that I didn't think he you know,

what happened playing alongside two stars. But I guess we'll have to see how that goes as well from season when we end up in a big playoff series and it's Lebron at the top of the keep breaking down the defense, and you've got advanced close out attackers like Malik Monk, like Kendrick Nunn like you know, uh th ht making plays off of the advantages that they're creating through getting double teams and getting a head of scene towards the rim. This is all going to make a

lot more sense right now. I get why you can get discouraging. All I'm saying is like this, this roster and this coaching staff, this is all built in a way that is more advantageous in the playoffs. And so I do I do wanna. I'm not discounting everything that you're saying, to be clear, I'm just saying that I disagree, but we got we got five more minutes, so we're gonna get two more quick ones and they call it a night. Thanks for hopping on, man, We appreciate it.

Appreciate it. Thank you. Uh Yellow, are you there? Yep? Yep? Yeah, what's going on? I'm good, I'm good. Look. I was kind of flipping back and forth between the Hawks game, um and the Lakers game, and I will have to say this man, and kind of responded to what he was saying about Frank Vogel. Look, I feel like the offense.

His offensive schemes are really not good. In my opinion, way too many times I see a Lakers game and it's literally just throw the ball into the post to a d and have him do a fade away shot, or throw it into the post to Lebron and he does a fade away shot when everybody else is just kind of standing there and looking, and then you know when the shooters end up going cold and they're not. But we lost your first s. Yeah are you there? But Diallo, we did kind of discussed this earlier in

the pod. This uh, this whole show will be on our podcast feed shortly after. But yeah, we talked. We just talked a little bit ago about you know, Frank and what his offensive strengths are and what his defensive strengths are. And he's just not gonna be Brad Stevens. It's just not. It's not you know what he does for this specific group, but he is. He does bring strengths and I actually think it's a good fit. And I think I think Raj agrees. But let's get let's

get one more caller and calling a night. YEP, I agree. Frank Vocal was never gonna be this super crazy offensive, uh minded coach. He's gonna rely on his defense. And that's that's one in the titles. That's what he's gonna stay. All right, let's see Hayden, are you there? Yeah? Hello, what's gonna what's up in? Uh? You know I'm doing alright, I'm doing all right. That was That was a miserable

second quarter. Well s third quarter on really the second quarter was all right, But I don't know, Um, I kind of like y'all said, at some point, you gotta put the blame on a D. Kind of like Raw said, you gotta put the blame on a D. And Russ as superstars. When you're up thirty, team is starting to claw back into the game, especially one that's not that great. You gotta you gotta, you gotta put the game away. And I just defensively, Russ is never going to be

lockdown obviously. Um, he'll get those random steals where he jumps a pass lane and gets a dunk, but that falls on a d is being more consistent full time

on that end. Um. I don't know if it's because he's saving himself for offense while Lebron is out, but at a certain point, I just felt like he needed to take over, and like you guys said, he kind of settled for jump shots and didn't really attack, you know, Darius Baisley and all these guys that he should have a pretty easy field day getting to the rim, being aggressive, and I felt like he didn't really do that. So I guess just kind of bouncing off of what they

were talking about earlier. Yeah, I agree, we agree, man, we're on the we're on the same page. I mean, one of the beautiful things about the Lebron a d fit is the fact that Lebron kind of makes up for some of Anthony Davis's shortcomings. You know, they compliment each other, right, and and obviously Lebron, Lebron is complimented very well by Anthony Davis, him being a stretched the floor, him being a guy that can hold down a lot of the defensive responsibilities. Like they're the two of them

fit extremely well. And one of the things that I noticed a lot in the championship season, if you guys remember, especially in the playoff run, you'd have these games where Anthony Davis would mail in the first half in the playoff game. You know, you'd be you'd look up and if you'd middle of the second quarter and uh, you know, and Anthony Davis would have like, you know, six points and four rebounds and and two turnovers, and you're like, what in the world's going on? And and all he's

doing is taking jumpshots when he gets the ball. But what would happen is he became the guy who would always bounce back and have a monstrous second half because in those first halfs when things were sloppy, Lebron seemed to read the tea leaves and put his foot on the gas and carry the team. And and so the two of that, you know, it almost became like one of those things where Anthony Davis would snap out of his funk because he knew his partner in crime was

laying it on the line to win the game. And and then there were games where Lebron would go cold in the second half and Anthony Davis would finally snap in and make some big plays. And so they compliment each other well. But I think I think that in the setting like this, when Lebron's out there with him, it's just tough for Anthony Davis to to get the motor to try to to win the game consistently compared to some of his peers. His motor, his motor is

not going to turn on by itself. Like him, he's not going to turn on his motor if he's the only one that has. Do you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, absolutely, he's not a self starter. He's not a self starter? Is the expression? Yeah, Yeah, there you go. Who do

you think? Yeah, for sure? I mean, like I thought tonight, Like I thought in the first quarter, he had like what I think twelve points um, but then in the first quarter or something, yeah, and he was getting to the basket, but then the Lakers went up like twenty. You could see him kind of just put the foot off the gas right and try to go in and lift this little chill mode and load manager in the game. And he saw on that third him trying to re reread that engine up, like re try to get at it.

It just wasn't there. And maybe it was because of the second night to back to back, whatever it is, but he tried to and it just wasn't wasn't there for him, and Russ try to do his own his own thing, and that kind of led to the erratic plate him and all the turnovers and the bad shots and the jump shots that you know he shouldn't be taking, or just like a when it rains, it pours kind of thing. And then the thunder started to get hot, right,

they started to make everything. I think they went like seven for ten or something from three in that quarter. So just the avalanche that they kind of hid. But yeah, you're right, you kind of have to stop that bleeding before like the blood just goes everywhere, right, like you kind of have to cut that off, and and they just didn't tonight. But um, they have another chance on Friday, and and well we'll see if they get a win. Heyden we're gonna call it a night, but thank you

so much for hopping on there. We're gon We're gonna go again on Friday night. Come come bring your thoughts again. Everybody. Thanks you guys so much for your support. This will be on our podcast feed here in about a half hour. It will also air on Dash Radio tomorrow morning at seven am, and the game on Friday. I believe it is the seven thirty Starts star playing on right around ten o'clock Pacific Standard time for our next show. Roger and I against sincerely appreciate you guys for being on

this journey with us and we'll see you then. Appreciate him and thank you. Yeah,