Episode 85: Suns/Lakers Postgame Spaces

I think where is it. He's in Vegas right now, these dudes doing something some some some dim festival. I'm glad. I'm glad that I could fill uh Phil Roger's seat, and I'll i'll try to do my best to fill his role for for this episode, this post game. I appreciate it, man, um. So you know, obviously, as things were progressing in the game, it was extremely frustrating, but I kept trying to compartmentalize it by acknowledging you know where things went off the rails, and you actually did

a good job of calling this out as well. But I feel like the Lakers lost their focus in the second quarter and when you do that against the team as good as Phoenix, with the continuity that they have and at the level that they're playing right now, things

can get out of control pretty quickly. And I that my impression was that it kind of started with those bad three point shot fouls, and I genuinely believe they were bad calls that said, you can't let a bad call in the second quarter get that far into your head. And then you you brought up the fact that Chris Paul at that point kind of smell blood or you know, picked up on what was happening and just went to

the kill. And during that stretch he was magnificent. So do you want to talk about what you noticed in that stretch? Yeah, So, I mean, I think the turning point of this game is when Chris Paul got into his generational troll bag and just started baiting the Lakers into just you know, like stupid fouls. Um. You know, he started doing a lot of stuff that he kind of does when and you know, it's it's one of the things that makes him the player that he is.

Like he he always had a pretty good uh finger on like the pulse of the game and how the revs are calling the game and stuff I got, and I thought he was working really hard to get calls. Um. I was shocked at some of the calls that he was getting UM, but he was getting him and I think it completely took the Lakers out of it. And um, it's I think what you just described, like Crowder getting that flavrant foul onbron Um. I think Chris Paul drew another three point file just a little bit later. I

think I'm mellow or something I got. Like it just that completely put the Lakers in a funk. And I don't think the Lakers ever kind of recovered from it because they probably thought there was a lot of fifty fifty calls they weren't getting UM on the opposite end. And I mean, you you played basketball. I haven't played same little basketball you have. I played a high school.

But like that kind of stuff, when you're not getting calls in urine and then the other team it seems like they're getting all the calls that you kind of can seep in um to the psyche of your team for the game. And I thought the Lakers just pretty much completely lost focus at that point. And then you know,

I think it's waited out like after a halftime. I was like, all right, either the Lakers are gonna cut this lead in half, like within the first six minutes of the game, where are they gonna get blown out? And that's you know, it went in the opposite direction, um, towards the blowout. So it's kind of what I expected to have. Yeah, you know, it was interesting because during that stretch simultaneous because you have to think, how could it go so bad so fast? Right because they were up.

You despite all of the things that I complained about with the Laker offense, which we will get to and they are still legitimate concerns having to do with spacing, um and you. You and I were uh in a direct message kind of talking about what we were viewing as the main talking points from this game, and we will get into those. But the you know, during that stretch when the Lakers up, there was a lot of good for starters. I thought Russ looked fantastic with exception

of a couple of bad jump shots. He did a really good job, in my opinion, defensively putting his physical imprint on the game. And and looks like what this version of Russ with this team could look like in a good capacity, and to Phoenix's credit, the way it went off the rail so fast. In addition to the Lakers losing their focus, they were extremely dialed in on the defensive end of the floor, disrupting everything around the paint in terms of passes and drives and in rotations.

And Michail Bridges had this stretch there in that quarter where defensively he was just like an octopus just getting his hands on everything. And so I wanted to start by just giving Phoenix credit during that stretch they just played magnificent basketball. And the Lakers right now are not playing good basketball. They haven't played good basketball through these through the entire preseason and really for most still these

two regular season games. So inevitably, when you let your focus off, the team that is dialed in, the team that has the continuity, the team that's playing good basketball is going to put you out of your misery pretty quickly. Yeah, I think that's pretty consistent, right, And so like the opening game, uh, they play the Warriors, who have a decent amount of turnover themselves on their roster, and so we saw the Lakers kind of pretty much be in control of the game even though it kind of it

was like a game of runs. I think Rogers that's the thing that he's called a while back. Like it's just, uh, the game was always like seven points eight points, seven points eight points, Warriors cut into the lead, Lakers extended out. It never really turned into like blowout territory or big double digit territory. And then eventually towards the end of the game, um, you know, Warriors went small and they kind of took the lead and then they never never

gave it back up. So like you could see the Lakers, a team with no continuity matching up with another team's no continuity and just you know, talented scheme kind of working out and they lose it in the end. But then the Lakers this and they play against the team that has a lot of continuity from from you know, everything that they did last season. Most of that roster, the core of that roster is pretty intact, so they

know what they have going. Um. But even then, you know, like it was kind of good to see Russ start this game off pretty well. Um despite the two big starting which I know that you mentioned we're gonna get into later, but and Braun again, you know, like I think I've mentioned this when I kind of jumped on just to offer some comments last time, when you rodg Rod Braunze, shot quality is so good, Like some of these threes he's taking ore like wide wide open. Some

of the midrange shots he's taking their wide open. It's his quality. Shot quality is so good. So it's just I'm hoping that that continues to stay there and everybody else starts figuring things out. But you know, it's it's it's going to be a learning process. Like I don't know what the Lakers record is going to be. Um, I'm saving a lot of my thoughts to to see

what Vogel does with these lineups. But he made some changes um in this game lineup wise that I thought were good compared to the last game, and and they looked pretty good to me. Yeah, he waited a lot longer to go to Rondo, who knows that his first stub off the bench was Molik monk Uh in general. You know, So this is something you said to me in the direct message, which I thought was super fascinating because it's something that I've been harping on this entire

suming this idea. I was it was the one article I wrote on the on the blog that I started that I said I was going to write occasionally, and

occasionally it has turned out to do once. So the article I wrote was about just modern basketball, and you know, the way that the smartest minds in the NBA right now approached the game and looking past all the scheme stuff, because you can get convoluted into all sorts of stuff having to do with specific actions and the things they do off the ball and the things that you want the ball and blah blah blah blah blah. But the gist of it is what Phoenix is doing. You've got

your primary creators. There's three of them on the team. They run everything through campaign, Chris Paul and Devin Booker, and every single one of their actions involves getting one of them in advantage, usually involving some sort of either off ball screen or on ball screen, and then from there they space the floor and and because of that,

everything they get is easy. And what's frustrating for me watching this Laker team, especially, you know, with the lineups that Frank has opted to go with in these first two games, is the Stars are not getting those same opportunities you know, uh Pete from like a film room, you know, as obsessive as he is, which is such a blessing because he does a lot of the dirty

work for us. He charts all these possessions out and he charted and realized that in the first game, the starting lineup in the half court attempted fourteen shots and attempted two shots at the rim. And fortunately, um we can interpret from that that the spacing leads them to become jump shooters, and that happened again tonight by my account, that russ drive to the basket where he got free throws, which was on like their seventh or eighth possession of

the game, was their first attempt in the paint. Everything else was a jump shot. That's just what you're going to get when you put those guys in a position where they can't get an advantage because of the way the defense is loading up on them. And so what I'd like to see is, like what you saw there in that fourth quarter, you space the floor and everything just starts with getting the ball in your best players hands with an advantage. From there, everything will be easier.

Guys will be in a better rhythm. I don't think it's a coincidence that Anthony Davis in two of his last three games, including that preseason game against the Kings, looked awful because he's not getting easy looks at the ring. I do think those things are related, and I think that that's all part of the living organism of a basketball game, and it's the part that's getting ignored as Frank heavily favor size and heavily favors you know that that defensive mentality at the expense of the of the

rhythm and focus, the rhythm and confidence of his stars. Yeah, I'm on board with you. Um So, So there's actually one thing that I just kind of I wanted to talk about, and um you know, a lot of the conversation that's been going on by by very very smart folks, Laker fans and non Laker fans, just very smart folks around basketball has been around that this idea that you present that you're mentioning right now, right like spacing the floor out giving giving your best players in the advantage

to play, is important. Um But but I think as it relates to like the Lakers, one of the things that I'm seeing a lot on the timeline is well, well, you've got to do it for Russ. You've got to do it for Russ. You've gotta do it for Russ. And the thing that I think folks are the only thing I want to like suggest to folks is it's not about just Russ. This is the direction, like if we had Dennis Schroder, or if we had like I don't know, even if we had like Chris Paul in

Russ's position. This is the direction that NBA offenses are going in. This is this is separate from Russ all together. It doesn't matter whether he's on a roster or not. Spacing the floor is absolutely necessary. And so the reason why I'm saying this is because we've what maybe about three three days where the games come through, right, And I watched a couple. I watched the Nets games because they were they were the early game before the Laker games. Um.

I watched the Atlanta game. I watched that Clippers Warriors game last night, and I was absolutely fascinated at the fact that both teams at one point we're running almost four guards, like four maybe like six five or shorter kind of guards ball handlers, and they'd run like a like a single you know, high motor, rebounding wing and when I saw that, and you know, obviously some of that's playing the game of chess Tyrone Lou playing chess um against Steve Kerr and just trying to match up

and stuff I got. But what was happening is those teams were trying to match up like not just space, but they're trying to match up like the speed that's on the floor. Like if you watched the Laker game, you saw a couple of you saw a couple of possessions where the Sun's just got out faster than the Lakers could, you know, in transition, and they got to eat like I think I want to want to. I think Michael uh, Michael Bridge has probably had like what two or three just kind of wide open dunk's just

kind of running the outlet or something. My gut so that that there's there's a um. The thing with the two bigs is not just a Vogel thing or or Russell Westbrook thing. This is a this is the direction the NBA is going in, And I just don't know what Vogeo is sort of thinking the trade off here is because it's not making any sense to keep playing two big, So I'm just I'm just waiting to see

when he adjusts. You know, I thought he played the single big with a d um after that first shift happened when they brought him link Monk and I think Avery Bradley next to Russ and the ad went to the five, and that looked really good. Uh that you know that the ball was moving, there was good shots coming out. Um, but you know they need more reps.

I just I don't know about the two bigs things, Like I'm not seeing in any game that I've seen so far this season, I have not seen any team run two bigs successfully, like just dominating another team with two bigs, And you know, it's it's just interesting to see. Yeah, even if you're like, as a Laker fan, when you see the Keevan Moone starting, aren't you thrilled? You're excited?

You're like, oh, thank god they're playing Keevan Like it's an advantage that you're that they're basically playing into your hands. And I love what you brought up about the speed thing because it reminds me a lot of you know, what's happening in the NFL. You know, like, for instance, a linebacker fifteen years ago was Brian or Lacker, you know, this giant mountain of a human being who stopped everything inside that that that came his way. And now the

successful linebacker in the NFL is Micah Parsons. You know, this smaller six one six two ish type of speedy like range e. It's almost like a hybrid between a cornerback and the linebacker. That that is the evolution of the game that the Cowboys you know, read in advance and made a really smart draft pick and it's helping them win games. And that that to me is like you're either going to be on the right side of that kind of stuff, but you're gonna be on the

wrong side of that kind of stuff. And you know, it's kind of discouraging because do you guys remember uh Frank's first interview when he was like, we're going to take an analytical outside in approach and he said all

he said all the right. He sounded like that modern basketball mind that we desperately wanted after the Luke Walton experience, right, And it's been kind of discouraging because at the end of the day, the way the way that Frank looks at it, it seems to me at least that at the he's obsessed with a certain amount of of that

rim deterrence right and then. But the point is is it only worked in because he had these guards that were really willing to put in the work to get over the top of screens, chase guys off the three point line and close out, rotate in that chaos and funnel everybody inside. But this year right now, so far, at least the guard corps hasn't been able to hold up there and of the bargain, so now we just look slow. So at a certain point you have to

adapt and and and call an audible here. And I'm with you, like just and one of my biggest beefs with the whole thing is all these people that say, hey, when you ditch DeAndre Jordan or you ditch Dwight Howard as the center, you have rebounding problems, you have size problems. Bullshit. You have Lebron James and Anthony Davis in the front court.

But maybe maybe Brook, Lopez and Janice are the only other front court in the league that's bigger like they, and Russell Westbrook is like a center version of a guard. So they absolutely can handle the physical responsibilities of a five man lineup with those three on the floor without a center, and so it's actively handicapping them. And by the way, DeAndre Jordan plus four again tonight. So yeah, on Opening night in plus four, what would that have

been if it was not anybody else? Okay, So that I saw somebody tweet that, so I thought that was Larrius, right, So I get I get that, right, I understand why it's plus two and plus four. But if we if you rewatch the starts of those games, right, and you

look at how how both those games started. Lebron starts off super hot against the Warriors at the beginning of that first game, right, so that first ship that DeAndre is part of, before he leaves the floor, the Lakers are up like ten or something, I forgot what they were up against the Warriors, something like that. They had a pretty decent lead, and then he'll he doesn't come back into the game until way, you know, basically the

second half. So that number is always misleading because it's really big because of the first shift, and then the first shift to the second half, it gets you know, slightly cut into because you know, eventually Vogan will be a little bit quick with the rotation change, so it's a plus two and then and then this game, this game is like literally the same thing, right, Like Russ starts off really well, Um, Phoenix doesn't start off very well.

And this is a separate conversation, but our separate topic. But Phoenix had very very good looks at the beginning of the game and in the mid range, especially Booker. He just missed them. That's all. It was. Like DeAndre was DeAndre wasn't challenging him, Nobody was getting in front of him. Him and Chris Paul had really good looks and they were just really not to not to cut you off. Remember how good the look Step got in

the first quarter of the opening night game. Those were fantastic looks that he just missed right exactly, and so and so it's it's misleading because you're if you're just looking at the box score at the end of the game, you're like, well, well, hold on the second why DeAndre

looks so good? Or if Frank Vogo is doing this, which I hope he's not doing, if he's looking at the box score and saying that DeAndre looked good, like you have to look at the film and see that the shot quality that the opposing team was getting was

really good. They just weren't making him. So then that's how I knew, Like towards in the second half of the game, I was like, at some point, Chris Paul is just going to start making all these been range shots because he's gonna know that DeAndre is not going to challenge his shot, and um, that's basically what happened right in the second half, just Chris Paul kind of gets into this mode where he just goes to wherever

his favorite spots are on the court. And then by the time the Leakers switched Anthony Davidson the five, Chris Paul has already got it going right, so he can't do anything. Chris Paul is gonna shoot rainbow shots, and so that's that's kind of my my concern. You're jamming up the spacing, you're jamming up the natural flow of your offense, and at the same time, the analytics are

probably telling you. Even though they may be telling you that DJ is playing well, or line ups with DJ and e D are playing well, they're not because if you're watching the tape, the shot quality for the opposing team is amazing. They're just not making their shots and eventually they will. And that's basically what's happened in both of these games. So I just don't, you know, I think last year I was a little bit more lenient with Vocal when it came to this entire process, and

I was just like, you know, I'm sorry. Not last year, the very very first year that he was he was hired. I was like, all right, this doesn't make sense, but I understand where he's coming from. And obviously, the Lakers won a championship last season. Because the Lakers are out of the playoffs early, I spent you know, I watched a lot of the games that the other teams are playing.

I just the way the refs called the game. Now, you know, I think Laker fans were pretty pissed today that Braun wasn't getting calls at the rim, and he wasn't getting calls at the rim, especially against like smaller guys, like folks. You need to understand the direction that this the league is going in. This is what refs are going to do. If you are a smaller defender against a bigger, bigger offensive player, they're going to give you leniency.

It's almost a guarantee. Now, there should be no confusion about it. So aside from the spacing stuff in the direction of the league, league is going in. The refs are not going to give you those calls anymore. Braun is not going to get collision calls anymore. They're just

not gonna give it to him. And so you might as well size down and match up with a guy like Jake Powder because maybe he has a better chance than than being matched up against like a Michael Bridges or you know, whoever they whoever else they decided to play that's smaller Lebron. Yeah, it's a it's a really interesting point because you gotta like it's funny, you gotta

you gotta read the tea leaves here. You gotta see what the are favoring and what they're not favoring in the death like for instance, like Lebron was really frustrated because he wasn't calls at the rim and then he tried one of those jankie three point shot fouls and it's like, dude, like they are they are actively being coached to not call that, So you're you're you're not going to get it you've got to kind of adapt in that regard these It's weird how with the and

like and here's the other part two, Like, I'm frustrated with the landing space stuff, right, we all are that that was It was really annoying that Lebron closed out on Jay Crowder with the exact same close out that abdel Nader used on Russell Westbrook at the end of the game, and rust gets called for an offensive foul and and Jay Crowder gets two free throws and the ball because of a flavorant Like, it's really frustrating that

that happened. But at the end of the day, to your point, from the beginning, they let that get into their head. And you can't let a call in the second quarter of a game throw you off as much as they did. But so let's let's let's try to get to some positive stuff here, because I do think, like like I said at the beginning, I am optimistic about this team in the long run. I think that basketball is a game of habits. I've always felt this way,

and they are impossible to reverse overnight. And I do think it's I don't think it's a coincidence that you lose your preseason games, all six of them. Because what that means is down the roster, including your G League guys, there's a a level of accountability and a level of effort that is lacking compared to the other team. Your point, because you know, Austin Reeves is every bit as good as the G League guy on the other team, and

so as Chaundy Brown and all these other guys. The differences is that team culturally in their training camp was more dialed in on that end, and it it became abundantly clear that the Lakers in those games, and it manifested into these two regular season games, just worn't as sharp. And so fortunately they are going to run into a

stretch here where they're gonna get some winnable games. So they're gonna have it, They're gonna have the opportunity to try to reverse some of these habits against competition that they can still afford to make some mistakes, because again, and it's not going to happen overnight, and God willing, they'll be somewhere in that seven to two, you know, uh, six and three range when they head back into a tougher part of their schedule, so that that this is

what I've been preaching about all preseason. They look terrible and that's continued here to the start. But they have time to figure this out. They're not going to get into the tough part of their schedule until you know, another couple of weeks from now. They just eventually their competitive fire has to kick in a little bit, and they did there in that fourth quarter, although Phoenix let their foot off the gas. But they need to ride

that competitive way into better basketball. Yeah, Oh, it's that that competitive wave is coming sooner or later. Like I think one of one of the things that I kind of took I've been watching as opposing teams play against play against Lakers is you know, like I've seen a lot of basketball, Like in my lifetime, Lakers basketball, love

a lot of basketball in general. As guys get older, like the superstar players and the star players get all there, there's always a point, you know, uh, in their career where younger players kind of come in and they and they're very disconnected from the aura and and the the like amazing nous of the player that they're playing against. Right, So,

Braun maybe five years ago, seven years ago. You anybody who played against Braun always was like, wow, you know, I've I've always had a young guy playing against would be like, oh wow, you know, like I'm always wanted to bron has been my idol. I've always wanted to play against him. And there there are players that are still like that right now. But you are also going

to get players like Jay Crowder. You are also going to get players like, you know, like a Jordan Pool who really don't care about who they're playing against, and they're going to bring like you know, the the the

what what's this? What's the same? You know, like when you play against like a Juggernaut team and you just know you're probably not gonna win, or they've got a guy on the other team that nobody can stop, and so you're walking into that game thinking to yourself like, you know, maybe halfway like all right, you know what, I'm gonna We're probably not gonna win this game. I'm gonna try my best. Like, I don't think teams look at the Lakers like that this this season, Does that

make sense? Like I think this fear, Yeah, I think people look at Anthony Davis say said, all right, you know what if I if I try to bullieve this guy a little bit, maybe maybe I can win this game, you know, where they look at Braun and they say, Okay, maybe if I give him a hard file here or there, if I or if I really kind of get into space or something I got, I can make it difficult. Front. That doesn't mean that that these guys, you know, the

Lakers just gonna fold. But I genuinely think that there's enough young players amongst all these contending teams across the league that the Lakers are going to have to run into where they're going to give the Lakers, you know, and they're not going to be afraid. You know, even if they go down ten, ten points, twelve points, it means nothing in the modern NBA. So it's like the reason I'm saying that is because we're playing who Lakers are playing Memphis the next game, Like Memphis, I think

he's winning their game. Yeah, exactly. Like none of these teams that the Lakers. I know that you mentioned that there's a soft schedule, but none of these teams are looking at the Lakers, outside of maybe like the bottom five teams, Like they're not looking at the Lakers as like, oh you know what, you know, we're just gonna lose, so I'm not gonna try. Like every single one of these teams probably believes that they can be the Lakers um and they want to make a name for themselves

doing it. So I think it's good because I would love to see more opposing players talk trash Lebron and talk trash d D because if they think that they're going to coast through the regular season, I don't think that's going to happen. And so that's that's that's what

I'm fascinated to see how they respond. Yeah, that's a really good point, and and that's kind of what I like about it, is like these games are going to be close, and that's good because if you look in previous seasons, they run into these stretches of their schedule and they developed bad habits, you know what I mean. These would be the parts of the schedule where they get worse, and then they'd run into a good team and they'd be like running into a freight train. Um.

You know. It's funny because earlier tonight so many people were talking about how bad Brooklyn looked, and I noticed in that first game against Milwaukee that it seemed really clear to me right up front that Milwaukee was attacking that game with a playoff intensity. Meanwhile, if you watched um Brooklyn, they looked like they were kind of easing their way into it, you know, and then they got the butts kicked and they fought back and tried to

get back into it, just wasn't one enough. And then again tonight, same kind of deal on the road in Philly. You know, Brooklyn, still kind of easing their way into things, and then like they get that there, find themselves down,

you know, ten fifteen points throughout the game. Finally they're competitive nature kicked in, you know, right around that, I think it was that first time out of the fourth quarter, and they locked in and they were talented enough to overcome it because they weren't in that big of a deficit. That's kind of what happened for the Lakers tonight. They were just down by thirty. You know, it was just

it was just too much for them to overcome. But the point is is like there was a clear difference in the overall intensity and focus and competitiveness and willingness to do what it takes to win between what the Warriors were doing and what the Suns were doing and what the Lakers were doing, and that gap needed to

be bridged. And and even though it didn't amount to win tonight, like as we're always going to talk about with these regular season games and you play eighty two, of them were more concerned about process, were more concerned about what translates to the playoffs. The Lakers if they're if they're seven in two after this stretch and they go into Milwaukee and they are going to Portland I think is the one after that, and they go into Portland and they beat Portland's and they're eight and two,

they will completely erase what happened in this week. No one will care. No one's going to care about them. Jay Crowder clowning them, No one's gonna care about you know, CP three literally turning Anthony Davis into a barbecue chicken legs, Like, no one's gonna care because they'll be eight and two and they will have just won a big game on the road. That's the way the NBA regular season works. They just need to kick that like they're like a rusty engine right now that's trying to get going to

get you know what I mean? Yeah, no, that that makes sense. So I'm with you I think process. I think the regular season, especially when you have this many people, uh, new faces to the roster and stuff like that, that's that it is a process to get them integrated, figure things out and whatnot. And so obviously most of the conversation and the thought process has been around how Russell Westbrook's going to integrate with the Lakers. Um. He wasn't

that great the first game. He was much better this game. I thought he didn't try to force too much. But you know, he miss lamps and stuff like I that's the typical brick vick threes um that sort of stuff. But he looked he looked good overall, kind of doing the Russ stuff that he does, setting up plays, putting pressure on the rim. But what what is the incremental thing? What is the thing that you need if you had to make a list of small things, right and just

small things. Not not just change the lineup because that everybody's screaming for that already. You know that did not not play two bigs. But what is the small process thing that you want to see this Lakers team start doing that they have not done or or you know, maybe they did a little bit of at this time, but they need to carry it over into the next game. It's a really good question. Um, I would say pick

and roll defense. So and in two on two fascetts, So, you know, you you kind of mentioned DeAndre Jordan earlier, like being uh, it might have been you who mentioned this on Twitter, but it might have been someone else. I apologize if I'm crediting the wrong person here, but there there's a difference between being in a drop coverage

and being active in a drop coverage. And DeAndre Jordan has a tendency in those pick and roll coverages to just stand there with his hands out by his side and like, yeah, if you drive right into him like an idiot, that he's gonna he's gonna bother you. But but if you but like if you as far as where you're at there, in that little pocket of space there between the guy who's still caught on the screen and in the four or five ft between you and

DeAndre Jordan's you're extremely comfortable as the ball handler. And you know, one of the things that I'd like to see is just more activity from that drop that drop coverage man to at least force him to uh force the guard to to continue to penetrate and and and possibly do something that he doesn't want to do instead of something that he's comfortable doing, you know what I mean. Like Kawhi Leonard is one of the best in the world at this, Like he will not let you dribble

comfortably outside of outside on the permiter. He's always going to be up in you trying to make you make a decision that you don't want to make, you know what I mean. And that's what that's what all of the pick and roll defenders on the Lakers need to do at the at the at the big position, and then the guards just need to do a better job of chasing over the top. Right now, Russ I thought did a pretty good job in the first half of this base has done a pretty good job all season

so far of this. But almost everyone else on the roster, especially Rondo, especially in the league Monk, those guys are getting caught too much on that kind of thing, and that's something that they can get better at, even just incrementally over the course of the season to make that coverage work. If that makes sense. No, I think you're

absolutely right. You know, the leaguers probably last season, Yeah, I would say last regular season with gasol Um and then eight in spots and then obviously the first season with Javail and Dwight in that in that position, Like they had very very consistent coverage I would say against the at least from the big from pick and roll, like JaVale was one of those guys where he would just straight up run up and and just basically hedge whoever was coming off of the screen because he knew

he was so long. Even if you beat him off the hip, he would still try to get to your shot. Sometimes it would result in um I think he used to get called for goaltends a lot because of it, because he used to kind of miss time some of those blocks, or he'd be a little bit too late game into the blox. But he it was always consistent, right, so you always knew what javal was going to do.

So the rest of his teammates knew that, all right, either JaVale is gonna, you know, make sure this guy doesn't turn in the corner, or if he does, he's gonna go for this block. So I I know where I need to be, um do I former Defensive Player of the Year. He know, like he's also much much better. Right, he can stay, he can stand in an open space against a lot of ball handlers and still you know, kind of hold his own as they're coming off off

the pick and roll. I think you're absolutely right. I think DeAndre when he's put in this position, when he's put in that position, he does exactly what you're describing, which is he just kind of stands in the middle of no man's lines. So he's not in position to you know, reflecting out of you, and he's not in position to block a shot or challenge a shot with enough authority. So I agree with you. I think that should be a small process thing that that that should

improve Um. One of the process things that I would like to see, uh short of improved, is um better better guard rebounding, like like Rust grabbed a couple of rebounds. But one of the things that I think I was a little happy about where I was happy to see is Um. You know, when they played League Monk today, like he was in jumping into traffic and grabbing some rebounds and then he would push it out on the break.

Um when they did when he had his first shift after after at the very beginning of the game, and some of some of them. You know, like the shot quality was pretty good. Uh, you know, the guys that he was setting up. He has a little bit of an issue sometimes with like tunnel vision, like he kind of misses guys that are already standing and waiting. Um, but that's okay because he's kind of still learning, uh

as the process goes. But like, um, if the Lakers are gonna play two big, so those two bigs aren't going to come out to like the mid range area to rebound the ball or the long too area to rebound the ball, and there needs to be better rebounding from that standpoint because you know, like if they're not. If if you're gonna scare teams away from taking shots at the rim, that's fine, but then you can't also let them get the long rebounds if you're forcing them

into into you know, threes and jumpers. So that kind of stuff has to be cleaned up or else, like the second chance opportunities will eventually catch up to them. Um, what do you what do you what do you think about that? Do you think agree? You know who used to be really good at that was caseyp If you don't remember he used to do he always understood like

the value of the defensive rebound. Uh, and understanding that the possession is worthless if you can't get insecure the rebound after it's way more valuable than the transition attempt. If that makes sense. Um, And I actually thought I'm glad you pointed out Molie because I actually thought Molie looked pretty good tonight. Um. He stopped a nub Or transition play where Chris Paul kind of had a steam had a scheme and he forced him into a fade away.

He's actually blown up I think four fast breaks already this season, which is kind of wild for a thin, wiry six ft three guard. Another guy who used to do a really good job of what you're talking about is Kyle Kuzma. Kyle Kuzma used to do really good job of coming flying in from out of the play to help secure the defensive rebound. I'm with you, that's definitely something that can be incrementally approved improved. Um kind of along the same vein in terms of like something

that is strategically kind of drives me insane. And I want to see if you agree with this, So like again, Chris Paul gets you on the screen, gets you on a switch. And so let's say it's you know, uh, Anthony Davis for instance, because I think he made at least what three or four pull up long twos over

Anthony Davis. So on those plays, Anthony Davis is kind of like crawling him, you know what I mean, Like like I kind of had him where I want him on the or I'm taking away the rim he's not getting by me, and so on the surface, it looks like good defense, right and then and then Chris Paul takes the fade away and you think, oh, like Anthony Davis did his job. He made he made Chris Paul take a tough fade away and his hand was right there, just just went in like I gotta shake the guy's hand.

And my opinion on that is like Chris Paul wants that, he wants that shot. All he's doing on those weird corral dribbles is he's just getting his rhythm and getting to the point where he feels comfortable. And my thing, it kind of goes back to what I was talking about with Kawhi Leonard. There was a there was a

famous game like years ago. I don't know if you guys remember I think it was Katie's last game in the last season in Golden State where he was in Toronto on the road and Golden State was down three coming out of the time out and Kevin Durant was bringing the ball up the floor and and kau I just jumped in and and made instead of letting him get comfortable, because you know, you always think of Katie taking that pull up three over Lebron, right, Like one

of the critical mistakes Lebron made there is, yeah, you contested the shot, Yeah you made Katie take a pull up three, but that's the shot Katie wanted and he was comfortable, And so you have to at a certain point strategically, you gotta jump in and yeah, he might beat you off the dribble, but if he beats you off the dribble, first of all, he didn't want to do that on that play. He wanted his jump shots.

So now he's he's adapting on the fly. Secondly, you put yourself in a position where your health defenders can be there and maybe you can rotate your way out of it. But just strategically, something I'd like to see teams, all teams do a better job of it is like when they get the switch and they're doing all those rhythm dribbles. You you can't just let them do that

because they've won the possession at that point. At a certain point, you've got to jump the person and make them do something else, even if it's what seems like a high percentage play, just because it's not what they want to do and they're uncomfortable, it might give you a better chance of success, especially when they already have the rhythm. Like you said, Chris Paul got his rhythm at the free throw line and built his confidence and he rode that into making a bunch of contested jump shots.

On the surface, it looks like good defense, but in reality, Chris Paul was comfortable and he was getting exactly what he wanted. Yeah, Chris Paul's old ass, that's what he wants to do, Like he wants to like he's old, Like, well, why do you think Lebron when he was like for the past couple of years, Like he keeps looking down at his hand, like there's a rhythm, there's a motion that these old guys get into because that's what they're

most comfortable with. And Chris Paul's old ass was trying to do that all through the playoffs, and then once he ran into the box, Drew Holiday said all right, we're not doing this. We're not doing this anymore, and he started pressing him from like three quarters of the quarter. He had Chris Paul dribbling backwards for like six of those games, Like he said, I'm not gonna let you get into rhythm. So what it forced them to do was and you know, obviously this is this is the

Buck series. This is different because you you game plan differently. Lakers may not game plan the same way because it's a regular season obviously, but it's when you when you press the ball handler, uh and from half court and you don't let him get comfortable and dictate which where are the screens coming up? Us like the screen the defense dictates where the screen comes from. So now deal and has to set that screen way above the three

point line. So now, maybe DeAndre Jordan is not kind of confused as to what, you know, what he's supposed to do. He's not standing in no man's land or uh, you know, the a D or whoever whoever the guard is. Sorry, he can recover or switch or whatever that has to happen.

But if you're just letting them dribble around and do whatever they want to do, like they're just gonna pick their spots, you know, like Devin Booker is just gonna dribble right to the free throw line like he likes to, and he's gonna pull up right and he doesn't like going left. Like Booker doesn't like going left, Chris Paul doesn't like going left, like neither of them like to

go left. That's something that the Clippers scouted out in the playoffs last year, Like if you force them to go in a certain direction, you can dictate what they're you know, what decision that they're going to make. And again, like I said, it's just regular season, but you're right, like a d is the athlete, Like why are you watching this old dude just kind of tell you, you you know, dictate what kind of shot he's going to take, Like

he knows that he's not going to get by you. Uh, and if he gets by you, he's probably just gonna stop short and try and draw a foul with you running into him from behind, because that's what Chris Paul does. So it's I think these kind of small things they probably get ironed out over the course of the season. Um, but you know, you bring up an interesting thing, you know, like, I'm sure that Chris Paul is shooting that jumper over

Anthony Davis. The highlight is going to be shared like on Twitter, right, and people are going all Adie that, you guys, sure he's the defense player here, blah blah blah, all that sort of stuff, And so what what is your thought on what a d has looked like? I let me as a specifically on the offensive end, but what do you think, what does Adie look like to you on the offensive end so far through these two games?

So it's it's ironic, right, because he looked fantastic in the opening night game, but the two games sandwiching that were two of the worst games he's ever played. I think he is four for nineteen against Sacramento and then I don't remember his finals stat line from tonight. He was like, but it was bad. So the point so, uh, Anthony Davis tries to build his rhythm in the same way that Kuzma tries to build his rhythm. And it's

something that has always driven me nuts. It's this idea that like they go into the game, and they start by taking tough shots, and when they start going in, it's like it's like you're you're just your s O L. You're done. Like even Kyle Kuzma, he makes a couple of his tough ones to start the game, he might

get you know what I mean. But but like with Anthony Davis, it's like a nuclear version of that, right, Like he was just unstoppable against Golden State because he was making all of those tough, fading, leaning shots in the lane. But then when he misses him, when he misses him to start the game, there's no easy to bounce that balance that out, you know. And one of the reasons why Lebron has been so efficient throughout his entire rear, he always builds his rhythm with easy ones.

They're one of the reasons why he's made a bunch of threes to start this season. Like you pointed out earlier, the shot quality is fantastic. The threes he takes are always in rhythm, in balance, uncontested, and then maybe the third or fourth one makes might be contested, but at that point he already has his rhythm. At that point. It's like Chris Paul on those little step back jump shots. He's exactly where he wants to be and he's comfortable

and if that makes sense. So one of the things that I'd like to see Anthony Davis doo a better job because physically he looks great. I think that's good. Although tonight was weirdly reminiscent of game Game one where he kind of got physically pushed around a lot by

eighton Um. There was that the famous one where they both got the double technicals there I think it was early fourth quarter, but even late third quarter where where got the ball deep under the basket and Eton just kind of shoved him around and didn't get the no call obviously because the rest were letting a lot of

that kind of stuff go. And next thing you know, it's fallen out of bound and the balls off of him and now he's screaming at eight and he's screaming at the rest and it's like, no, man, Like the rests are letting this be physical, and you just got out physical by the third year center, you know, the the you know, the same one that you were talking trash to the other night in the preseason. So like at a certain point, you know, and some of this

is on the spacing stuff. It's kind of all tied together because I do think it'd be easier for Anthony Davis to get easier shots to start the game if he wasn't playing alongside the under Jordan's But but I do get frustrated watching his process of offense. And he's so damn talented that it doesn't really affect him that much.

But I do think that the next level for him is consistency, right, Like, the next level for him is almost every night looks like that Golden State game, And the best way for that to happen is to consistently build his rhythm the right way by starting with easy stuff and working his way backwards from there. Yeah, so

I agree with you. Um, I was going to I was going to riff on the you know, I don't know if we're playing on bringing up guests, um, but if we don't have time tonight, well guys, we're going to do guests on Sunday night after that game. We have our we're just doing hard five minute outs for dash Radio. So obviously then a ven is a different guest and Rog and I've had for a long time, so we wanted to kind of give him an opportunity to, uh, you know, kind of talk about some stuff that we

haven't talked about before. But Rog and I will both be back Sunday and we'll do guests then. So tonight we're gonna just doven A. But I do appreciate you guys for for coming in, and I appreciate you understanding, and I hope you'll come back on Sunday and request to speak then anyway, go ahead. Yeah, so so you know, I I agree with you. You know, I think, um, he he's not doing himself any favors UM when it comes to having having the second big on the floor.

I don't think he's ever going to get good touches or he's ever going to get good looks um with if IF as long as they continue to run UM two bigs to start games, because it's just really really hard between asking Russ to attack the rim to collapse the paint. Bron You know, Brons look great because he's making all these open threes, but it's just like where, now, where where do a d S shots come from? Right? He's not in the dunker spot. He's either standing in

the corner. He's not the one who's making the screens for Russ, like he's not involved in the offense and the way you want, like maybe you run a couple of picking pop plays, because you can't run a pick and role play with DeAndre, there's going to be a second guy available. So it's just there's a lot of stuff. I think his offense is suffering because of the two bigs and uh, you know, I know there's a tug of war on on Twitter about you know, is it Vogel, is it a d um, you know, whatever it is.

I think his offense is suffering the most because of it because and and you know, one of the things I talked about in the off season, or I was kind of trying to mention the offseason, is that if the Lakers size down and he plays the five, there's more opportunity for him to get more picking pops and there's more opportunity for him to get like easy how you attempts or you know, one of those rusts collapses the paint and kind of drops it off to him

and he has to kind of finish through somebody like something that to to help him get like sort of a lather as it relates to what it is maybe he gets a couple of quick early fouls so that he can get to the free throw line and find his jump shot a little bit earlier. Stuff I got.

It's it's I think, the two big thing. More than it's hurting Russ, it's hurting a D because it's allowing him to do exactly what you're describing, which is he takes a bunch of jump shots which were probably low quality jump shots because you know that everybody on defense just standing around, everybody offense is just standing around, and they're not good quality jump shots. And if he makes him,

that's great. You know, we get a start like the Warriors game where we're like, Wow, Anthony James is back, or we get games like or we get games like this one where it just doesn't look good, you know. And there was a point where I want to say, at the beginning game, they ran a pick and roll with a D and he did like a pick and pop jumper at the free throw line, which he made and it looked great. I was like, oh wow, it looks like DeAndre Atan is not going to step out

on these. They should just keep running this over and over again. And then they like never ran any and I was just like, okay, like I don't understand, like what's going you know, So that that's what I'm trying to say, Like it doesn't there's no consistency when you have two bigs on the floor, so it hurts your offensive players the most. So you're taking away Russell's ability to attack, uh you know, get the first step on

his guy and attack the paint. And now you're also making it difficult for a D to do anything with the ball. And when it's in his hand, Braun can shoot the ship out of the ball. So it's not gonna matter. He'll be fine, it won't. It won't be a big deal at all. Um. So that I'm my concern with a D on the defensive end is not just that that big, because I think once his conditioning gets there and stuff, I got some of the some of the silly stuff that he's getting cooked for and

it'll go away eventually. My concern is genuinely on the offensive end with him, like he has to be he has to be good, like we can't. These last two games, Lebron has been great, like great to his standard, and he's doing in a way that I did not expect him to do, which is was just with the three ball. Like I did not expect Braun to be taking as many threes to start games as he has, but he has, and he's been doing really well. I need a D to build some consistency. And uh, you know, I'm not

gonna lie. I know the Laker fans probably don't want to see the Lakers start off, you know, like oh and three on four and five. But if that's the way that we get an a D at the five lineup, like I'd rather they lose, because I honestly think that's the only way the Lakers are going to win. Like a D has to be committed to playing that five position at least to start the games. Like flip the rotation, start a D at the five and then go into the two bigs or whatever it is you want to

do against opposing benches and end the first quarter. Because a D and Dwight actually have a weird defensive like like craziness to them. That's hard for other teams score on. Right, Yeah,

don't don't. Don't start with the two biggs. Jump start your offense by playing a space lineup and then grind the game down to a halt against opposing benches, but don't don't do it the other way, because I think when they I think teams have already kind of scouted the Lakers out because Voco hasn't really changed very much of his philosophy, and they kind of know how they want to approach these games. So like, uh, who does

Memphis having Memphis has Steven Adams right, like he's a trip. Now, this is three games now, folks, Like, for anybody's listening, we've had Kavan Looney, we have DeAndre, and we've had Steven Adams. If they go with two bigs again, you're going to see very very similar stuff. You're going to see the four guys space it out. So a D

can't help help on defense for DeAndre. If DeAndre gets pulled away and you're going to see like the same sort of thing happened, Lebron will probably get really good shots. Russ may look good too as well, But we don't know a version of a D we're gonna get because we're running two bigs. That's that's uh, that's that's probably the one thing that's on my mind more than anything at all. I'm so glad you did such a good job of breaking that down, and I sincerely appreciate that.

I first of all, thank you again for hopping on here. I really enjoy having you on when you do have the time for it. You it's such a good job of breaking it down, because it's so you know, my biggest beef with the analytics community has nothing to do with analytics. It has to do with the fact that they kind of disconnect. They try to take away the organic elements of basketball, because there are organic elements of basketball. They're they're they're meaning like, it's not no two shots

are the same. It's the easiest way that I could break it down, okay, And it's really the simple. Okay. So I've been playing basketball the vast majority of my life, and and some days when I play, I shoot well, and some days when I play, I don't. Now, you can try to associate that with just luck, but I don't see it that way. It's usually a culmination of a bunch of factors. Okay. Sometimes it's just somebody who does a really good job guarding me. Sometimes it's bad

process on my part. Sometimes it's you know, some Jankee zone that just throws you out of your rhythm. Or whatever it is. But the bottom line is, there's like a there's a like a natural organic flow to a basketball game. And the way you start is the is the is always going to be that first step in

whatever direction you're going in. You know, like the russ had a horrible, horrible game on on Tuesday night, but it started with a jankee you know, ugly offense type of flow in in in that first stint, with those starters, and I genuinely believe, even if it hurts you with your defensive rating, even if it hurts you in terms of uh rebounding, even if it hurts you in in in a handful of these different even if other teams had more points in the paint, which, by the way,

Phoenix absolutely destroyed us in the paint in the first half, despite us playing Deandretan and Dwight Howard and Anthony Davis for large portions of that. So you couldn't tell me that has anything to do with it. But at the end of the day, and you could sacrifice a bunch of those things, but you could tell me that Anthony Davis would be more confident after every one of his

first stints. I would take it because At the end of the day, this team goes as far as Lebron and Anthony Davis take them, and the only way that they will consistently play well, Lebron is gonna be Lebron. Lebron is one of the most consistent players in NBA history.

But for Anthony Davis to be consistent, I think it's gonna have to be with him being at the five because it's the only way for him to inevitably get that organic basketball game flow headed off on the right foot every night because he has, like you said, like you cannot run a pick and roll with Anthony Davis because of the dunker DeAndre Jordan in the dunker spot, So you have to have him spot up and you

have to DeAndre Jordan clump and set the screen. What if every action to start the game was Anthony Davis, it was either russan a D or Lebron and Nadi or Russ and a D or Lebron in a D. Chances are he's going to get off the better starts every night. It's and it will inherently lead to better free throw shooting because he feels more confident in himself. It will in early lead to better three point shooting.

It will lead to better defense. His defense suffered tonight because he was struggling, and it manifested in other areas of his game. And and and you cannot tell me till that you could present the most amazing list metrics this world has ever seen that breaks down even the most intricate basketball possessions. And you will never be able to tell me that there isn't like a living organism to the way that a basketball game progresses. And that always gets lost in these kinds of things. No, I

think you're absolutely right. I think all this stuff is like incremental stuff. Um, it's all. It all contributes in small ways, you know, more touches for Anthony Davis, more consistent touches in a role for Anthony Davis, like stuff like that, you know, allowing people to slot into the positions that they have. My thing is this, like, what do you have to lose in the regular season if if we're going to step back, if we're going to step back as Laker fans and say that, look, the

regular season doesn't matter. It's a process. We have to learn to be the best team that we can and the good habits so that going into the playoffs, were locked in and we know what we are, just like we did two years ago, just like we did last year, which which is why we survived, you know, not having brought any of either. Then what is the harm in doing it now? There's no harm in trying it now. And if it if it fails, if it sucks, then okay, then you go back to the drawing board and you

do it different. Yeah exactly, But now we also but now we have two years, two years and two games, you know, or not two full years obviously, but we have a lot of games of seeing this not work, you know what I mean. And I don't know what more Vocal needs to see or Anthony Davis needs to see, or if it's a wear and tear thing, like look, if Anthony Davis says, look, it's too much wear and tear on my body to play the five, I'm gonna miss possessions, I won't get the defense rebounds, all right,

cool man, Like, let's give up more offensive rebounds. We can look at it in film and we can tell the rest of the guards, and we can tell Lebroun, like, hey help him out, help him rebound the ball and stuff like that because he can't do it himself. But how do we come to that conclusion if we don't actually see it happened, right, It can't all just be hyd pothetical conversations. And so I'm just curious to see

this this this game on Sunday. Um, it's gonna be another traditional five, and I won't be surprised of Vogel plays two bigs yet again. I just I don't know what's going to happen, um, because I think it's a little bit of fool's gold some that those lineups kind of start off really well because we kind of see what happens after that. So you know, a lot of this you know conversation has been very critical, but they were definitely you know, small things that that were improving.

I think the Monk plus Russ them being kind of active rebounderies in the guard position and pushing out in transition. I think that was really really good stuff and I think it's something that the leaders can build on. I hope that Austin Reeves kid gets more gets more burned, because I actually do like him and how he plays and stuff like that. He kind of fits in naturally. So you know, we'll see Uh, well, we'll eventually get there.

There's you and I are both you and are both Laker optimists, and over the course of the season, it's there's a difference between frustration and like actual pessimism. Those are two completely different things, you know, And I would describe what we're feeling as frustration, which is warranted in this case. Um. But anyway, the day, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to join me tonight, UM means a lot. I hope we will see you many times

throughout this season when time permits. And for all of you guys who listen, thank you so much for hanging out over the course of the last hour. Roger will be back on Sunday, and hopefully we can do a show like this after a Lakers win and uh and get you guys up here to talk about something positive instead of something negative. All right, man, that I appreciate, appreciate Stubby and for ROJ hopefully he comes back sober

and healthy. And you guys are good. You guys are good to go on Sunday, but you know, I appreciate it, uh, And you know, as as always, you guys continue to do great, great stuff. Where with these post games, so I always enjoy it. Thanks for n H right, everybody, have a good night.