Episode 74: Rondo, Last Roster Spot, Lakers Win Total

doing stuff, having fun. But we're like thirty days out from the first preseason game, and you believe that, like the summer's flying by. We had all these like off season kind of you know, goals and things to kind of hit on in the podcast, and like thirty days away. Training camp is in like twenty five days. We're gonna start getting quotes from training camp and all the people saying that in the best shape of their lives, you know, all the stuff we hear at training camp is coming

up soon. But I'm doing great. How are you doing that? I'm doing good, man. Um uh we It is very similarly. We got hit by the leftover remnants of a tropical storm last night that had come from hit in Mexico and so it rained and just cooled everything off. Um, and we're heading into this at the time of the year for us where things start to get a little bit better, which is nice because summers in Arizona can

be rough. But yeah, it's funny because basketball As a basketball fan there, it was such a low point when the season was really heating up. After that weekend Lebron beat the Bucks and the Clippers, and then all of a sudden, it was like the league's going away, and we have no idea when they're coming back. And then even when they were talking about coming back, they're like, maybe we'll just skip the season and trash the c b A. And then you're like, oh my, we might

not see NBA basketball for months and months. And instead we took three months off and now it's been like NonStop basketball and even this little break of an off season we have is is super super quick. But for Laker fans in particular, it's nice because things ended way too quickly. I was actually joking with my wife the other day because you and I started doing these pot these post game shows, right and you know, we were getting great you know, interest from that, and there was

so much fun. But we only did them for like a month, maybe not even because the Lakers lost fast like they got they got knocked out in the first round. And I told Carly, my wife, I was like, just so you know, like we're looking at like nine straight months of that happening like three to four nights a week, just so that you're aware. And she's like, no, no, I know, it's okay. But anyway, we're we're excited to

talk some Lakers today. We're gonna talk about Rondo, uh in him coming back, what that means, what his job is going to be on this particular team, um, what he brings to the table. We're gonna talk about what to do with that last roster spot. Uh there's two opening still, but they plan on leaving one open from what I understand. But then there's also the potential for Marc Gasol to retire and how that can kind of throw an extra spot in there in the mix. Uh,

So we're gonna talk about that a little bit. Um. As I was looking up at the beginning, the Lakers win total for this season is only fifty one and a half, and both rog and I think that's pretty low. And we're gonna discuss why uh there at the end, and then if we have some time at the end, we're gonna touch on a little bit of this Kyrie Steph debate that was going around yesterday on NBA Twitter. But let's start with Rondo. So, you know, it wasn't

exactly a big surprise. Uh, you know, there was some intel pointing in that direction. Obviously the Lakers, even though the fan base had an inconsistent impression of Rondo. Obviously the Laker organization loved having him. Uh. And the only reason they really let him go is because the shrewder, it seems like, so you know, they seem all pretty stoked about it. What was your initial like like snapshot takeaway when the Rondo deal happened. Were you surprised? Were

you happy about it? Are you disappointed? What's your overall impression? Yeah, it felt inevitable after he was traded by the Clippers, right, it's kind of hilarious looking at how he got here, Like he got paid by the docks, Um, he got traded to the Clippers, gets traded to the Grizzlies, and then the Lakers just get him from the minimum. So basically he got paid to go doing one like a one year little tour around and come right back. And

he said that this is where he wanted to be. Um, he didn't even have any other kind of suitors that he was even thinking about. He's a guy that raises the collective basketball I Q right, that's what he does. Um. People are saying he's gonna feel that Jared Dudley kind of role. We'll see you with that. I think he's gonna play more than Jared Dudley did. UM Logo definitely has an affinity for him, like just as a player, and his like accolades as a player show up on

this team. He's actually one of the younger guys, right. I think he joked in anybodys like one of the bottom five youngest guys on the team, which is hilarious. And he has a chemistry with eight that's undenied. Bill to me, he had the biggest chemistry with a d even including Lebron, Like that's that's a high of a chemistry he had with him. He found him on law passes.

He's great for him and he's not gonna he talked about he's not going to play as much, and that's easy to stay in the middle of in the end of August, like, it's really easy to say, he's a guy that's shown that he wants to play, and I think he will um in certain situations. But yeah, that was my first kind of initial takeaway by kind of looking at the trees to the forest or however you say that, Um, he's kind of he's a guy that raises the collective basketball Q and he's just another smart

guy to have on the team. There's negatives that he brings on the floor, but that's kind of my take What do you what do you see from Rondo? So it's no secret that I'm I'm in the rare company of of Laker fans that were not overly swayed by his playoff run. Um. For the record, he was in you and I talked about this on the podcast. He was definitively better in the playoff run than he was in the regular season, So there was some uh, you know, redemption there so to speak. Uh that said, I thought

he was still a little inconsider stint. I thought it was just kind of like you know, in the regular season, you know, if you took a five game sample, there'd be four bad Rondo games and there'd be one good Rondo game. And I felt like in the playoffs that kind of went more to like a one to one kind of deal, where you know, one game he would look like playoff rondo from the Celtics, and then the

next game he'd be actively hurting the team. It seemed like, So what kind of frustrated me about that experience is like, you know, when you have two stars like Lebron and a d you just need people after them that don't

mess things up. And so in those nights when he would when he would be kind of gambling all over the place, getting out of position on defense, being super indecisive as an off ball shooter, but then at the same time driving into the paint, smoking layups right and left, Like it just got really frustrating to watch just as a fan, you know. But that said, like, I do think it's it's very important that I personally acknowledged that he was very good at stretches in that playoff front.

His assistant turnover ratio is fantastic. He was just shy of seven assists with just about two turnovers shot from three in that playoff run. He had in the regular season his net rating was right around zero, and in the later portion of the season he was way below zero. He was hurting the team a lot, but in the playoff run his net rating was just shy of plus six points per one hunter possession. So he did his job of not letting all hell break loose when Lebron

would go to the bench, so to speak. So I I do want to pay him his props in that regard. My main concern, and this is not exactly a big secret among uh, you know the people in my camp who have been a little bit concerned about this. You know, I'm worried about him taking opportunities away from young players who are going to struggle with getting a rhythm. You know.

You know what's really really hard is when your opportunity is inconsistent, and if Rondo gets a big game in terms of minutes once or twice a week, that that's just a little bit of a wrench own into Molik Monk or Kendrick Nunn's rotation and their opportunity. That might

hurt their confidence a little bit. And so my thing is, like we kind of ran into this issue last year, right where you're when you when you almost have too many guys to play, it seems like it seems like everyone starts to struggle a little bit because their opportunities

are inconsistent. And so that that's my one warrior with Rondo is just whether or not he ends up, you know, kind of inadvertently hurting Malik Monk or Kendrick Nunn by cutting into their opportunity and hurting their confidence a little bit.

Does that make sense? Yeah? That does, I guess. Like my only counterpoint to that is, like he's not out getting man's over Russell Westbrook, right, like Russell west was gonna be a starting point guard, Like he's gonna play the majority of minutes if Kendrick Nunn and Maligue Monk can't beat out thirty five. However, old Rondo is thirty five year old ra Gen Rondo for minutes, that we have a problem, Like Kendrick Dunn should be able to outplay ra Gen Rondo for minutes at least in the

regular season. In the playoffs, we'll see, we'll see how it goes. But yeah, like that, that's my only My only counterpoint to that is that, like those guys should be able to beat him out for minutes, like there's there's no reason that and a little competition is fine. Um, I don't. I don't like to compare him, but like Dennis Shreuder is a better player than Rondo, right, Like

Dennis Shruder overall is a better player. But I think there's a difference between a guy that can pass and find, you know, Anthony Davis for example, and a guy that's actively looking for him. And I think that's what Rondo does. It's a big and and eighties, a guy that his star level shouldn't really need for that, but it does. It's just eighties, a guy that can really float, and Rondo makes it almost his job on the floor to make sure he gets a D the ball and positions.

Re watching the playoffs, like there were so many plays where like a D would get in the post between the matchup and Rondo would just like no, no, no, we're clearing this whole side and we're getting the ball to a D like none of this, We're not doing anything else. I don't care what the play is. A D has a guy that's five inches shorter and then him, we're getting him the ball and everyone else go to

the other side of the floor. And those kind of things have a collective kind of dynamo effect to me on a d even if he doesn't score on that play, just making him consistently involved. And I think that's something that Rondo does that you can't teach him. The kind of chemistry that they build, you can't buy on the free agency market, right like like your kitchen Murray. Again not to compare them, but like you'll get your Murray have a chemistry build that you can't buy. It's it's

not available on the market. So those kind of things I think are invaluable that that he brings. And and again those are intangible things and it's hard to kind of value and he still can't really shoot, and you know, but I just think there's a flair and we we think of fearlessness in terms of shots, in terms of taking shots, right like there's like all he's so fearless in the playoffs, you'll shoot, you know, you shoot whatever.

Rondo has a fearlessness as a pastor, which I think is important, Like he he's not scared to make that pass, you know, because in the playoff those reads need to be even a second quicker than they're on the regular season, and again we're watching the playoffs. You're right, he wasn't great in a lot of these games, but his fearlessness as a pastor really showed up to me. Like where

a guy has a seal, it's a quick throw. It's not like, oh man, we'll this pass get there, you know, No, it's just a quick once he sees the guy um like fronting, he'll he'll throw it over the top. You know, stuff like that that uh that you can't teach that. He's just kind of been ingrained as a pastor. So those are things I think he really brings a lot of natives he still can't defend. I'm sure he's still

gonna take nights off. I know there's gonna be Westbrook Rondo lineups that are gonna drive you absolutely crazy this season. I am absolutely sure of it. If you don't think Boco is gonna play Rondo, Westbrook and Lebron lineups, you are fooling yourself, because absolutely that's gonna happen. But yeah, I think that. I think he's uh, he's gonna play a less than he did in the title year, But yeah,

I think I think it's great minimum signing. You know, he's getting paid by the Grizzlies to play for the Lakers, Like, what kind of what else can you ask for? There? His his passing ability, I thought really showed in the NBA Finals against the Heat in particular, there was this chemistry with Lebron. The two games that stood out to me. We're Game two when the Heat stayed in the zone for the entire game, and then in Game six when

they were beating the living hell out of him. Uh, Lebron and and Rondo just had this uncanny It almost reminded me of like if you played in a three if you if you ever played in the three on three tournament, there's always that team in there that's not super athletic or good, but they're just remarkably smart at like cutting and screening and getting open shots just by

by by running basic NBA offense. Lebron and Rondo were doing that to the Heat in Game six of the Finals, just like just really detail cuts and seals and things like that that we're getting easy layups. And Rondo certainly brings that element to the table. And we're gonna in a second here, we're gonna talk more about you know,

the other roster spots to have to get filled. And it's funny because you know, I was tweeting with with Pete from l f R the other day about this, and he said, and this is something that I agree with. He goes, it's easier to tell actually this is I have to I'm not I'm not gonna take a victory lap yet because we're not sure, but I'm going to kind of rub it in your face a little bit that I kind of think that I might have been

right about a d playing more at the five. But anyway, he goes, the signings tend to make more sense through the lens that the Lakers are going to be going smaller, because now what they have seven guards. By my account, we have Monk and none, Rondo Westbrook, th h t um Uh from the Warriors, bays More at six, and then there's a set. There's a seventh that I'm forgetting

off the top of my head, oh Ellington, Ellington. So they have seven guards right now, and so you know, it would lend you to think that they plan on having some of those guys play minutes at the small Ford. I don't know if that's gonna be bays Moore in th HT or if it's going to be more of a traditional three guard type of deal, but it's clear

that that's the direction they're heading. And one of the nice things from a depth perspective, you know, Darius Oriano made the joke about the about Batman the Dark Night where Joker breaks the pool queue and throws the two pieces of one at the guys and goes like, hey, we're taking tryouts for the new team here, you know.

And it's like, that's kind of the way that I see Vogel approaching this as I see him coming in day one of camp and looking at the guards, you know, and just and and looking and saying, hey, hey, count, count how many of the of you guys there are? And they all kind of look around at each other and they're like, oh, there's seven of us, And it's like, do you think all seven of you are gonna play? And they're gonna be like, you know, and then it's gonna be hey, well guess what I'm playing the guys

who defend? And you know, is that does that mean that they're gonna all of a sudden start defending at a super high level? Not necessarily, but at the very least, you're going to get an effort and focus and and attention to detail from those guys on the defensive end of the floor. By virtue of necessity, it's gonna be almost like a survival instinct from them in terms of trying to stay in the rotation, because even the guys, you know, you've got guys like Rondo who sure as

hell want to play. We saw the quote from him basically like throwing shade at Tyron Lou for not playing him a lot in the playoff run. But then you've got guys like Monk and None who they can't afford to fall out of the rotation because if they do,

it could derail their careers. You know, Molik Monk, the difference between him signing a mid level exception deal or bigger next year with another team, or coming back to the Lakers or someone else on a minimum deal is going to have to do with how well he plays this year. And so it's very important for these guys

to get playing time. And so it's going to drive a competitiveness in the guard corps that's going to bring the best out of them, I think, and I think that that that is the thing that is good, But it makes more sense in terms of your actual lineups if you're looking at as seven guys filling three positions rather than seven guys filling two positions. If that makes sense, Yeah,

for sure. And again you say guard, but I mean, like to me, most of those guys are like two threes, right like Baysmore, I think is gonna play a lot of three THHD looks like a wing at least from like his summer videos. Like I think he's gonna play a lot of three. Look, I hope Ad starts as center, Like I hope you guys are right. I'm just when someone tells me something for a very long time, I've kind of listened to it. Like A D has been

very clear about this. He will play eight, he'll play the five when he needs to, and like a Tuesday game in Charlotte, and I just don't see it, like I don't think he will. Maybe it's a mental thing for him. You talked about the like the kind of he's kind of losing, he's kind of losing the physicality battle anyway by playing the four, right, Like it's kind

of detriment to him. Um in in that situation, but him mentally he feels better playing the power forward and you know, you kind of actu as to your stars sometimes when a D is a superstar on this team, and that's kind of how I see it. Um, Yeah, like I think he's gonna still start at center. I don't know who's going to be the starting center, but until proven otherwise, Like that's just how I think it

will go. And Bogel has kind of said that he's fine with it as well, so well, it's it's my case for a D playing more at the center kind of derives from Marcusol's hesitancy to come back, because Marcus is a competitor like that dude, like you don't go you know, you're never you're not the defensive player of the year, and a guy who takes that limited Memphis Grizzlies roster as far as he did all those years without being a freak competitor, like the dude absolutely wants

to come back to the Lakers and play. And the I personally think that the intel that came from Mark Stein, by the way, whether or not it wasn't some RD Abraham kind of deal, like he said that he thinks that Marcusol might be retiring. And the reason why, in my opinion, is that I think Rob basically called him and said, Dwight Nade are splitting the center minutes. And so if you know what's silly to me about that, from Mark's perspective, is inevitably this year eight is probably

not playing back to backs. You know, Dwight Howard's gonna have some some little nagging stuff here and there where, he's gonna miss some games. Like, there's still plenty of opportunity for whoever that is, whether it's marcusol or DeAndre Jordan who or Paul Millsapper, whoever, whoever the hell they signed to fill that role, that person is going to have opportunities to play this year. It's not it's not gonna be, you know, just riding the bench all year long.

It's not the same kind of deal as last year when we had all of those bigs. You know, we basically had a five big rotation at that point. So I'm not necessarily worried about that. But I do think that it's possible that Dwight starts and a D plays for to start the game. But I think that the it's been hinted pretty heavily that Dwight would quickly sub out and then a D would go to the five

and then him. And because even if a D, even if Dwight is the only other center that plays, in theory, what's Dwight gonna play like twenty minutes probably, you know, we talked about this the other day with Ellington, Like, twenty eight minutes is a lot of minutes. I don't think Dwight's gonna play that much. I think he'll play

somewhere in that twenty to twenty two minute range. Well, that means that there's another twenty eight minutes available at the center position during the game, and so it's very possible that a D plays that those minutes. That that's just my guests though, But so it seems to me that you think that the far more likely outcome is that they ring another center along and end up basically having them and Dwight share the center minutes exactly. So

let me make my case for DeAndre Jordan. And I don't want I don't want, you know, fire sticks at my house or or at my Twitter profile or whatever. Like I totally understand DeAndre Jordan was not great last year. You know, there were a lot of players you can find where he's kind of staring around, a lot of plays where he doesn't cut hard. I totally understand. Let me just make my case. First of all, I would

like Marcasol over him. But Marcosol is thirty six years old. Okay, Marcosol turns thirty seven in the end of January, so he will be thirty seven going into the playoffs like that. That's just that's yes. But you know, Marcosol is not Lebron. He's not built like Lebron. He doesn't move like him, doesn't have the body of Lebron, no one does. No

one in the world has a body like Lebron. But still, like you know, Marcusol isn't He's not an athlete that's gonna age all super great like his game Mage bacefully was body. You know, he's a slow kind of footed center. You saw even in the Spain games. You know, you know he kind of comes off for his brother, kind of comes up in for him really quickly. That's besides

the point. And I'm not trying to I don't need to bring down Marcusol to bring up DeAndre Jordan, right, But I'm just giving you the fact that Marcusol is an older player. He's thirty six. DeAndre Jordan is thirty two. Thirty two years old, same age, I believe it's play Griffin Um same age as Russell Westbrook. Um. He's just in that age of like these guys and they're primes, not in they're primes, but you know, he's a He's in that age where he can still be effective at

thirty two years old. He was fourth in a field goal percentage last year. He's been the top like five, I believe for the last few years. He's a guy that finishes at the rim. He still can be a big time law threat. He fits that like physical kind of dominance right that the Lakers are trying to build. Now, look he does he helped the spacing shooting, No, absolutely not, but he's still a law threat. Like I think that's a vertical space and I think they're going towards more

of that in their bigs. Um, And he can be a nominal center. Can you play twenty eight minutes a game? No? Can you play twenty five? Probably not? But can he play the twelve eleven or twelve minutes that Javail was playing? Why not? Like why not the new situation. I understand, like those were his best friends Kyrie Katie. Something obviously happen. He's getting bench for Jared Allen. Then he got bench for Pretty Claxton or I think that's his name, Pretty Claxton.

I forgot what's his actually, Nick Claxton. Sorry, yeah, one of the Claxton's. UM. Yeah, he got bench for him, and totally makes sense. They went with the younger center can kind of switch more. But I think with the Lakers scheme of wanting to just put guys to the rim, I think he fits that and this is gonna be a transition running team anyway, and a guy that can.

He's another great rebounder. UM. He was one of the best defensive players UM of his kind of generation when he was playing back in he was voted the best defensive player over guys like Anthony Davis over Tony Allen. I believe as well. I'm just a guy I think that fits and I totally Yet he wasn't good last year.

Like NETS fans keep telling me this, you don't want DeAndre Jordan on your team, and maybe I should listen, because I didn't listen to Andre Drummond stuff, So maybe I should listen to DeAndre Jordan's stuff, But um, yeah, I feel like he can still be a nominal center at that at what he is now, and maybe again maybe he's not ready for that, but like when I

watch him play, there's still stuff in there. He still has imbatic dunce, he can still really jump, he can still roll when he wants to, and I think in a new situation he can he can fit in. What do you what do you think about it? So for starters, don't I don't really want to hear anything about what the Nets fans say about DeAndre Jordan because DeAndre Jordan didn't fit into their identity. You know, like DeAndre Jordan is the super athletic, rim spacing, primarily defensive type of center.

Makes a lot more sense on a team like the Lakers, where their identity is built around that sort of thing than it does on a super finesse team like the Brooklyn Nets, you know, where he's the only guy on the floor who's really trying to physically bully people. So it's not really having much of an impact to begin with.

You know, I'm actually pro signing DeAndre Jordan as well, and the main reason why, it's like when you're looking at depth, so guys outside of your rotation, because I'm looking at this from a different perspective than you, because you're looking at it in terms of a ready made rotation player because you think that he's gonna play the four. But from my perspective, even with a D primarily playing the five or at least half the time and UH and Dwight getting those other five minutes, I still like

DeAndre Jordan as a signing. And the main reason why is when you're adding depth, you can kind of look at it from two perspectives. You can either add a guy that's just like the guy in front of him, because in that case you can slot him in and play the same style and not have to worry about, you know, trying to rebuild your identity around a specific player.

Or you can get somebody very different, think like a Paul millsap or a LaMarcus Aldridge, and you can have a kind of a curveball, a different a different direction. You can go to kind of change pace and mix things up in your rotation. Now specifically with the center position, because when push comes to shove, I think a D is going to play the five in the playoffs. I think you probably agree with me there. Because of that,

I'm less concerned about versatility at the center position. So I like the idea of DeAndre Jordan's because if Dwight Howard goes down for a couple of weeks and you need DeAndre Jordan to play, that's an easy slot in. You can get eight percent of the Dwight experience from DeAndre Jordan's and play the same style to carry you through the innings of the regular season. That's kind of

the way I see it. Whereas with the guard position, which I do think they'll end up bringing one more wing type of dude if Marcosol retires, I think they will um, which would which Marcus al would have to retire for DeAndre Jordan to make sense to begin with. But in that case, because the guards are going to play in the playoffs, I think the versatility makes more sense. So I wouldn't want another, you know, Malik Monk type of young guard who's kind of skinny, who's gonna run

and shoot a bunch of threes. That to me wouldn't make sense because you already have that in the Guard corps. You have multiple guys kind of play that style. So I would prefer a Wesley Matthews there because he's very different than the other guards on the roster. He's more defensive minded, he's a savvy, veteran player. He doesn't have anywhere near the offensive ceiling. He's not as good as a shooter, he's not as good at putting the ball on the floor. But he's a guy that you can

slot into lineups and he won't screw things up. He's a guy that's going to raise your floor, so to speak, with those lineups. So with with guys that I are going to primarily play in the playoffs, I'd go for versatility that they're like something different than what you have. And with the center position, I'd go for more of the same. And so like, I don't like the idea

of Dwight going down. And so now you throw Paul Millsap in there, and he's playing just a completely different style, and now the Lakers are having to change the way they play in a random regular season game in February because of you know, a little bit of injury, bad injury luck. So I'm with you. I go with DeAndre Jordan's at at the end of the day, what what he brings to the table as an athlete, and his defensive pedigree from the past, which is not the same

as he was obviously, but neither is Dwite. But for what you're going to ask him to do, to defend and pick and roll, to protect the rim, to run the floor and to screen and roll to the rim hard and be ready to catch lobs that you can't pick a better fac simile of Dwight right now in the league than DeAndre Jordan. And so I think that that move makes a lot of sense in that regard. So I would agree with you. Yeah, and and DeAndre is not Dwight Howard, right, he never was like the

kind of caliber player. But like a lot of the things you hear about DeAndre Jordan's very similar to what people are saying when the Lakers signed Dwight back in Twayne nineteen, right, Like he um, he's not motivated anymore. You know, he hasn't been good, wasn't good on the Wizards. And Deandrew Jordan was paid to be the starting center on the Nets, like that's what the contract he was given.

He obviously is not ready for that Anymorening and He's not going to be a huge, big time minute starter. He's not going to be part of this Big three or Big four or whatever. But again, a guy that can run, dunk and put in a specialized role, I think he can be effective. Saw it with Dwight. Dwight can't play thirty minutes probably anymore, like he's not effective when he does that. But you put Dwight in a

fifteen or twenty minute a role, he can dominate. He can you know, check the check the living hell out of you for for those minutes. And I think DeAndre Jordan's can kind of do the same thing. Um, I don't think you lose that. And I think there's a competitiveness there when you've been good as DeAndre Jordan has been in his career. So I just that's my only take there. I'm not saying he's better than Marcusol And I think I'm just saying, like, why can't he feel

the jabail a few minutes a game? I mean the Lakers obviously like that. Look. Um, no matter what the spacing does, whatever it does, it obviously gives a d some kind of, you know, assurance in his head that he feels better about starting, you know, at the power four position, and and you brought up all those guards. We didn't even talk about Trevor Reason. We don't even talked about Carmelo Anthony, who's gonna play as well? All these dudes again, who are three fours that kind of

fill in um. Which is why I would be okay with getting a center, because I feel like the guards and even the wings um. I would probably like I like West Matthews as well, like that would be an awesome pick up for me if we can bring him back.

But again, we have already have a glut at that position, especially in the play obviously, just why I would be okay would bring it on the center, especially if Gasolo decides to hang it up, because then you only have Dwight Howard and a d As your centers, Like that's those are your two centers. You're not gonna play Carmelo at the five. I'm not gonna play a Reason at the five. So that's why I would be okay with this. And then you still have another roster spot open, so

that's that's kind of where I would go. And they're playing it seems like they're saving that for the buyout market. Anyway, which which my guests would be they'll use that in reaction to whatever significant injury happens over the course of the year, which is bound to happen to somebody, hopefully

not anybody overly important. But you know, I agree with you, and I'm not worried about versatility with DeAndre Jordan because at the end of the day, if you're playing a game and the Dwight thing isn't working out for some reason, like Dwight's getting killed up and down the floor, You're not gonna be like, oh, well, DeAndre Jordan is gonna go in there and do better. Like no, you're gonna default to Anthony Davis at the five and you're gonna

play some other line up to make that work. So I'm not I'm not concerned about versatility from that regard. And you know, in terms of just overall talent that you can add for veteran minimum contract, as like your fourteenth roster spot, I don't think you can do any better than DeAndre Jordan's. I think that that's about as good as it gets. Um, do you have anything else you wanted to discuss in terms of the extra roster spot before we move onto the wind total. Uh No,

I think that's good. I think uh, I think this will pretty much be the roster. Maybe one of those those kind of guys on two ways can make the roster, and one of those young guys. But other than that, I think I think this is a team. Um, and we can kind of dive into that in the future as well. Yep, I agree. We're one month away from from getting into that. So um. You know, wind totals

are interesting because there's a bunch of different factors. You know, Vegas is not a hard or fast rule in terms of what you know, they're super super smart, you know, algorithm you know, analytics dudes come up with in terms of what a team is going to be. It's that in combination with what they anticipate the public to bet heavily on. It's that in combination with them trying to

bake in a little bit of injury risk. You know, a team that's a little bit more injury prone is going to have a little bit more, a little bit lower wind total because Vegas is prepping for that sort of thing. So there's a lot of different angles that

go into it. However, fifty one and a half, which is what the Lakers over under is right now strikes me as super low, and I have to I'd have to look it up because I don't remember for sure, but I think it was fifty one and a half in that season that they won the title as well. Um and I remember because I remember it was like fifty I think it was right around fifty fifty one. But it was also fifth place in the West, if

you remember. But this year they're tied with the Jazz for number one in the West in terms of their over under, and so it's super interesting. So like a couple of things, I think it's important to to understand what the Lakers did the previous two years, and then I also think it's important to understand what's different about this year. So two years ago, this was a core part of my Lebron should have been the m v P case. The Lakers were at a going into the bubble.

Right right after they beat the Clippers on that Sunday in March. The Lakers were on a sixty four wind pace, okay, that was what That was the pace at which they were winning games through the point of the shutdown. Then they went into the bubble and and weren't trying and they went three and five, so threw it off a little bit, but they were at a sixty four wind pace. Then this year, before the Anthony Davis injury, they were twenty one and six. And six is guess what a

sixty four wind pace in a full length season. Now this season, I'm getting a normal training camp with normal practice in normal rest, which is going to favor older teams because the schedule isn't as intense working day to day as things kind of drag on. Then I also have Russell Westbrook, who was arguably the best regular season motivator in league history. I don't know that you could tell me of a single play are that's going to give a ship more night in and night out against

random teams than Russell Westbrook. And so for me, if they stay healthy, sixty five is very much on the table, you know. And that's counting the fact that they might be at a high sixties pace and then let their foot off the gas at the end of the year if they have the one seed locked up, I think that's very possible. My guess is if you put a gun to my head and said how many games you think they're gonna win I'd say sixty, and that's based

on Anthony Davis taking some rest games. Same with Russell Lebron. The rust thing also adds this weird element where they're just a little bit more capable of winning games if Anthony Davis is out, for instance, like you know, with Lebron and Dennis, they were able to get some wins, but with Lebron and Russ, they're just gonna be able to get more wins in the days that Anthony Davis

sits out and vice versa. Like a Lebron out game was like a guaranteed loss last year or close to it, although they ended up scrounging together some wins there in that little stretch with Dennis Shrewder. But with with Russell Westbrook and Anthony Davis, you've got a chance to win some games there. So even they even have a little bit of baked in injury, you know, buffer in that regard.

And so to me, what it would take for them to win fifty two games, which is what they would need to hit the over is very much in play. And you know, parody is absolutely a thing, and it's it's very true in NBA history. This is one of the things that I hate about when you see in the Lebron MJ debates when they go, oh, Lebron beat fewer sixty win teams than than m J didn't. It's like, Uh, lots of sixty win teams is a sign of a

week league, not a sign of a strong league. It means that they're beating the heck out of guys night in the night out and stacking up wins. You Uh, a league with parody has more teams in the fifties and it does teams in the sixties. That's just the way that it works. That said, I think the Lakers are considerably better than the teams beneath them in the West. I think better than Utah. I think you'd agree with me. They're better than Denver without Jamal murray by by a lot.

Same goes with the Clippers with Kauai being hurt. You know, the Phoenix Suns. The Lakers are gonna take that match up very personally this year. It's easy to see that they're going to be the better team most nights that they're on the floor. They're gonna lose some games, But I tend to think that sixties very much in play and could I wouldn't be surprised if they hit sixty five, what about you? Yeah, I agree with that. I think if you look at like just the over runners in general,

they didn't give anyone too many wins right there. They're really believing this like parody league, kind of this balanced out league. Right. We just saw the Milwaukee Bucks when the title over, you know, Kevin Durant and and the Brooklyn Nets. So it's kind of that's all kind of baked in. You bake in injuries, you bake in um players sitting more, all that stuff. I agree with you, they should be able to run off a bunch of

wins UM one and six. I didn't even realize that that was like a sixty five win pace, like just when it was happening. It's just didn't feel that way winning percentage, believe it or Yeah, And that was with like a d kind of you know, Hollwold and out of shape and stuff like that. And you talked about Russ as this like big time motivator in the regular season.

He's not just that. He's also motivated himself this year, right, Like he has an extra even boost of motivation because he's on a new team and wants to prove that he's part of this you know, winning kind of formula. So I think he'll be great for the whole team. The motor You have a bunch of new guys, bunch of young guys trying to trying to prove each other. But yeah, like when you just look at that, they also bake in that, you know, lak your fans are

gonna go and you know slammed over or whatever. You know, Vegas base is very smart in the way they that they kind of dude in theory, if they're slamming the over, it would be higher because they would want to bake it that. That's what that's what's so crazy about that line. Yeah, and I think it will raise like by the time. So if you want to go back that you should probably do it now if you can get it at

the one. But yeah, I agree with you. They should be able to get more wins um now that But again, like this is all baked into how many like to me, this all just go and sides with the point that we've been making all summers. It's like this is the year of Anthony Davis. To me, like that this is the year of a d like this is where he needs to show he's one of the top five players. You know, there's been a lot of talk is he even topped and stuffing like this needs to be his

year and this all gets baked into that if he's himself. Um, I think this team can run off, run off a bunch of wins, and they have the talent to do it. They have young guys, they have motivated guys that are that are a little bit older. So I think they cam in and Russ has talked about it. He's ready to kind of run off run off a bunch of wins. And even Lebron I think is a little bit more

motivated than than last year. There was a there was a seriousness, there was a tone that was lacking last year that I feel like, we'll see, we'll see this year. So since I agree with you, they should hit that over And if you want to go bet that, you should because I'm sure that number is gonna rise by the time we get to get the training camp. So the journey. A little secret is I never bet over unders,

literally because I'm not patient enough. I hate the letting money disappear for that long And even if it's like fifty bucks or something. I actually bet and over runner for the first time ever the other day with a buddy of mine because he asked me to. The over runner for the University of Arizona football team was two this year, so they just need to win three games there,

you Bay football team is terrible. But anyway, but we both got season tickets for like fifty bucks, so we literally are are we bet the over under so we can see if they can win three wins. But anyway, it's weird. It's like you put I bet seventy five bucks on it, and uh, I won't see that money if unless until December if they win, like you know, like that that's what's so weird about it. Um. But I think the one craziest thing this is Tim Bontemps, which,

by the way, this is classic Tim Bontemps. But he goes like, you know, what do we know about Lebron and in year one with a new team, like it usually is a little bit rough, and I want to be like Lebron and d D have played together for two years now and I've already won a championship, Like like they had all those new players last year last

year was exactly the same. Yeah, they brought back k C PThD, that kind of thing, But for the most part, the rotation was stocked with all these new guys Marcus Almntrez, Harold, Dennis Shrewder, Wesley Matthews, all these new dudes. And they started twenty one in six and like, the wildest part about that twenty one and sixth starting you touched on

this A d was freaking somewhere else mentally that entire stretch. Okay, Lebron didn't touch a basketball the entire offseason, like like he basically just took time up for rightly so because he won a title on October eleventh and then started playing in December. But the point being like, for whatever reason, the people are level like talking about these concerns having to do with that continuity, and I'm like, dude, push comes to shove. Lebron and Anthony Davis know what they're doing,

and all these other dudes have smaller roles. Dannish, Dennish, Russell Westbrook has the biggest kind of new thing to to fit in with this group, but he's more or less going to do the same thing that Dennis Shrewder did which is control the pace of the game to bring the ball up the floor. And early in the season last year, the Lakers were forced feeding Dennis and begging him to do stuff, which also was part of the reason why I thought Anthony Davis struggled a litt

a bit. But you know, and at this I'm interested to hear your take on. Lebron is always loud and in your face with what he's doing. So he's one of the few guys that when he tweets, you know, like am time for work? Like he's that guy that when you do that, when he does that, like it actually happens every day, you know, Like whereas there's a great deal of players that are like, oh, I put I put him work today, and it's like the first time they went in three days, you know what I mean.

Like the Lebron is not that guy. But I do think it's super interesting to me that Anthony Davis has been very quiet this summer um, even to the point where Russell Westbrook and Lebron didn't work out without him at one point, which I don't think he deliberately avoided. I'm sure it was just a scheduling conflict, but I do think it's super interesting that Anthony Davis has had a quiet summer. What are your thoughts on Anthony Davis basically falling off the edge of the earth this summer? Yeah,

I mean he he does. Like Okay, so Russ and Lebron are super lud personalities right there. There guys that jump off the screen and too. You'll know when you'll know when Russ has a bad game good, You're gonna know, like he's gonna be in your face, it's gonna be on the referee, you know all that. Anthony Davis has a more like toned down kind of approach. I think he's more laid back. Um, I think he loves the l A lifestyle. But he doesn't want to be on

social media all the time. It's not like he posts like crazy unless it's like his commercials and stuff. And I don't think you need to. That's not to confuse his competitiveness, Like you don't get to Anthony Davis's level without being a super fire competitor. You know, That's just how it goes. And I think he understands. Um, he's he's not dumb. He's read the tea leaves, He's read what people are saying, and he knows he can't do

anything over the summer to prove it wrong. So again this I go back to that twenty season, like that A D was a monster every single night. Like it wasn't like, oh a D had a good game and then had three you know subpart. No, it was like twenty five and twelve and then twenty and thirteen and then thirty two and fifteen and and all this stuff about how is rohndoing Danny Green in the defense. No, it doesn't matter. There's Lebron and A D kicking your

ass every night. I remember when they went into Utah and Utah you know, they weren't great, but Utah is a tough place to play, and it looked like a joke. Like A D was absolutely eating Gobert for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Because that's the capability that he's having. And I'm listening on the Utah broadcast, like to listen, they're like, oh, well, like, what are you gonna do. A D did a you know, dribble through, step back, you know, dunk on Gobert? Like

what are you gonna do? And that's the type of stuff that he can do because that's the talent that he has. And last year, look, there's a lot of I don't want to say excuses, but reasons. You know, you get a title, super short offseason, um, you know, and there's like the motivation factor has gone. And I think this year A D missed a lot of games, like he really did, Like he was out from February,

was never himself again. He had a few good games that game against the Suns where he screamed I'm back, you know, stuff stuff like that. There were little parts and moments, but nothing like that previous season where it was nightly. It was every single night in Portland. Damon c J, Are you kidding me? Like no, we're gonna I'm absolutely dunk on you every time because that's what I can do. And so like that's that's the A D. I want to see again. And then he understands that

he's not done. He's a guy that's been in top m VP votes and he's the guy that should be in Defensive Player of the Year awards every year. Like that's the guy I think is there and we'll see again and this stuff. But like it's funny because you talked about, you know, the Russell Lebron is so big personality that like Carmelo just gets put to this like, oh, he's just gonna come in and be like the three. And this is Carmelo freaking Anthony on the team. And

it's like they posted him as a Laker yesterday. They posted his like photos and him shooting at the gym. I'm like, this is absurd. He's like the eighth story on this team. It's like, oh yeah, Also Carmelos on the bench, I'm like, that's Carmelo Anthony, like who was

starting for the Blazes last year. So it's just you're right, the Lebron and the rust takes so much of the oxygen in the room that like you forget sometimes about a d about Melow, about all these other guys who have super strong Even Dwight is a strong personality, it's not like he's he goes quiet into the night either. So it's it's interest gonna be interesting season, man, We're gonna have a limited amount of things to kind of

engage on here. Yeah, you and I have talked off the record or off the air a few times about how this season is just gonna be so much fun to cover it's not even Anthony Davis has so many good reasons to be motivated, you know, Like he had a bad year in the regular season. Uh, and he lost in the first round. He had his moments in that series, but he also got outplayed beyond by DeAndre Jordan in Game one, which was kind of a big

swing swing moment of that series. And uh then then the player that he's most compared to, Janice goes and wins finals MVP and drops fifty in Game six, and it is literally you know, the bell of the ball, so to speak, for for the last few months and getting all this love and it's like, hey, a d Like, what have you been up to? You just had one of the worst seasons of your career. So like there's a lot of reasons why Anthony Davis should come into

this year very motivated. He's been very quiet. He's traditionally he's very much more Kauai than he is Lebron in terms of the way he handles himself off the court, Like I didn't even though he had a kid until until he came to the Lakers. Like that's just kind of the way that he carries himself, which I have a great deal of respect for I have no problem

with that. It's just just been different and interesting. But he has he has a great deal of reasons to come into this year caring a lot, and you know, and I do think that that stuff matters, and especially the honest thing, because like, I don't think it's a coincidence that Steph Curry came out and lit the world on fire the year after Lebron won his fourth Finals m v P. I think that these guys sit at home and when they see their rivals UH having moments,

I think they take it personally and they and they and they use it as a fire to go to the next level. I you know, we just talked a lot about a d I very much expect Lebron to be an m VP candidate this year. There's way too many people writing him off as like this, you know, this is the year that Anthony Davis is gonna come back and go off. You know, Russell Westbrook there was Royce Young did his big thing with LFR and he talked a lot about how teams take on the personality

of Russell Westbrook. It'll be interesting to see what happens when he joins the Lakers. And I'm for the record, I'm very interested in seeing that as well. But meanwhile, Lebron, you know, has been very out in the open over the last couple of weeks. And uh he made a joke about being on house arrest for the next month getting ready for training camp the other day on Instagram.

Like the dude is taking this offseason very seriously as well, which is something he hasn't done in a couple of years because of his growing injury and because of his ankle injury. Like Lebron, guess who stole the show from him last season? His two biggest peers at the position, Janice and Kevin Durant. Even Kauai had a fantastic playoff run before his a c L got torn. So there

are gonna be people around the league. I think he's the fourth best small forward in the league right now, you know, like they're at a certain point, you know, I wouldn't. I think this is gonna be Lebron's last great, great,

great season. That's not to say that he won't still be good next year to some ex it, but like, I think this is his last, like his last just masterpiece of the season, and and and and so I think as a Lakers fan that they have more more reason to bet the over, by the way, But I just see, I think there are so many reasons why this Laker team could be so good, and some of the pessimism surrounding them doesn't actually make a ton of

sense to me. But um, but yeah, I I I would certainly there's room for all of them to succeed, you know, like Anthony Davis can get Defensive Player of the Year get m v P votes and Lebron can get vy P votes. The best case scenario, ironically, would be like two thousand seventeen Golden State where Stephen Katie both finished like fourth and fifth and MVP voting. Because what that means is neither of them are getting the award,

but both of them probably should. They're just not getting it because they're on the same team, which is what you want. That means that both players are playing to the absolute peak of their ability, and I think that that's very much in play. Did you have anything else you wanted to add about uh that in particular before we move on to our last topic. Yeah. My last thing on that is, like it's looking at Lebron has been a Laker for three years, right, and two of

them have pretty much been uh derailed by injury. Right. The first year he heard on Christmas, Um, I think he tried to come back, but I'm not sure. I don't think he did come back. And then the third year is you know, he got injured. Um, Solomon Hill went to his his angle and he got h ankle sprain and he was never really himself after that either. So the one year he was healthy, they won a title.

So to me, like, that's the main thing here. Lebron staying healthy pretty much equals finals run for the last twelve thirteen years, however long his his reign has been since he went to the finals. Like, healthy Lebron pretty much equals finals more than anything as every equal one. So that's my whole thing here is that Lebron stays healthy. I think he puts as much work into his body as he does put as much, you know, million dollars

into his body. Whatever, does the training, like you said, wakes up at five am, which tweet out the work out and then with tweets zach Lavine, welcome to CLUK. You know, he'll do all that stuff, which is when you're looking at that. But yeah, like to me, it's all health for him, and he's healthy. There's no one you would take over him in a series, agree with you? Um So, our last topic we about fifteen fifteen minutes here.

Um So, basically, Mike James, who was a backup point guard for the Brooklyn that's last year if I remember correctly, tweeted out basically that he thought Kyrie Irving was the most skilled point guard in the league, and it turned into this whole, uh, you know, ship show on Twitter because Steph Curry has such a ravenous fan base and uh,

it became like this whole other thing. And I don't even think Mike James would say that Kyrie is a better basketball player than Steph Curry, but for whatever reason, that those two topics got conflated and it became this whole thing. But it's been an interest. The reason why I brought it up to you something that I wanted to talk about today is it's become actually kind of like the latest proxy war in this like long term uh debate that I've been having with people about the

difference between like impactfulness and skill. And it's complicated because like everybody, I tend to think that everyone's offensive ability is a combination of three things. It's your skill, the things that you go into the gym and craft through practice and repetition and dribbling the ball off your foot seventeen times so that the eighteenth time you don't dribble the ball off your foot, and working on all these different floaters and angles and things along those lines. That

is part of it. And then another part of it is your i Q, your ability to read a defense so that you can consistently find the best opportunities to shoot. And then the third part is your physical tools. What are your god given traits that give you the ability to utilize those skills at a higher level than somebody who doesn't have the same uh physical tools. And you know what's funny is, you know, Steph Curry, I think

we I think you and I both agree. Is like a tear one super super duper star, right, and Kyrie is something else. He's in that third tier of stars, maybe fourth tier. You might find someone who thinks he's in the second tier, but he's certainly not the same level player as as Kyrie or as Steph. Excuse me, but what's interesting is like everyone associates that skill set your bag, so to speak, as the only indicator of

what you do on a basketball court. And it's interesting to me because like, what makes Steph a Tier one super Duper Star actually has only only partially has to do with his shooting, you know, his that's his elite skill that he brings to the table. But what makes him the Tier one super Duper Star is he defends extremely well at a position that most people don't defend well. He is willing to work off the ball, which has unlocked the success the success of his team as a whole.

And then in general, he's very good at weaponizing his shooting to get easy shots, so he doesn't have to do the things that Kyrie Irving does to get a shot off. That's all to say that Steff is a very much better basketball player than Kyrie. However, Kyrie is a slightly better ball handler in my opinion. He's a considerably better at finishing varying types of layups around the rim over contests, and because he shoots differently, he shoots at the top of his shot step, shoots on the

way up. He's trying to sneak it on you, whereas Kyrie elevates and shoots at the top of his release. That gives him a little bit better opportunity to score off the dribble in the mid range as a like, he can attack from the post, he can go into like spin moves, and elevate over contests to make shots. Those are three very specific skills that I think Kyrie is slightly better than Steph at And that doesn't mean he's a better basketball player. And I think it's ridiculous

that those things get conflated into two separate things. And it's it's the same reason that I think Lebron is a better player than k D, despite the fact that k D is more polished in certain areas of his game. Am I crazy for thinking this way? Do you think Steph fans are out of line here? Where are you

at them? Yeah? You're better at articulating this stuff. Like for me, like this very comes very close to like the Hooper basketball player kind of close right, like kind of like that kind of conversation to me, like you talked about Steph, Like if step was justin Lee shooter like, he wouldn't he would be a great player, He wouldn't be the Tier one star he is right. To me, what makes step like a generational player is like he not only can shoot, he can also dribble. He can

go buy you. You have to guard him everywhere on the floor because he can not only curl off screens, he can also fake get to the rim, finished at the basket. He can fake find guys are like to me, that's what makes step a generational players. Not just as shooting. You know, Reggie Miller was a great shooter, but Steff is like he has the handle, he can behind the back, step back three on you and it's a good shot. Like he made those shots good shots. He changed the

game in that way. I guess, Like for me, it's like the difference between having the ability right this skill and translating it to a five on five winning scenario. To me, Like, I guess that's how I see this conversation right, Like Kyrie has every skill in the book. Um. I was listening to Brian Winhorset the Who Collective and he asked Kyrie, like, how do you make these weird shots? He's like, I looked on YouTube and the like I practiced these like crazy bank layouts and look that's amazing.

But like, does that help. Does that like help you win in a five on five scenario? I don't know how much that helps her, But again, like that's the difference here is Steph Ben's defense is in a way like you can read kind of where it's going, kind of understand the tempo of the game now, where the game needs to go to. Those are kind of things to me that like separates you as a basketball player. That's why Lebron's in the top two best players ever because he not only can score, he also knows when

it's right to playmate. He knows you know how to play deep, you know when to play great deep. Like all that stuff kind of is baked in, and that's the difference to me. Like Jamal Crawford has every skill in the book as well, but is he a top tier, you know, superstar, No, because he doesn't bend defense is the same way he does one skill, which is scoring, which is great. It's just like he doesn't do the

same way. That's how I see. Uh, it's harder for me articulate stuff the stuff that you are, but like that's kind of how I say, do you see it that way as well? Kind of this translation into like five on five Winning basketball is different than just being have the skill like Hi Red does to do to dribble, crossover through the legs, step back, fadeaway jumpers that like, you know, a team can scheme out eventually. I think

you're articulated. It's just fine. I mean, what what what is the point if it's not to win a five on five basketball game? You know, And and for the record, those things that Kyrae does, they do bring value, just in a different way. And it's usually in very, very focused scenarios like it at this spe sick thing, which is game tied at eighty nine and it's Game seven of the Finals, and there's one minute left, and you run a screen with j R. Smith to get a

switch on to Steph Curry. Kyrie Irving is going to be one of the best guys in league history in that specific scenario. But the point is is over the length of the game. You know. One of the most common series used by Kyrie fans to say Kyrie is better than Steph is the two thousand sixteen Finals and they go, Kyrie flat out outplayed Steph on the biggest

stage to win the championship. So Kyrie is better that that's their logic, and it's flawed in so many different ways, not not the least bit was the fact that step was hurt in that series, and that Kyrie, when his knee was acting up in later points in his career, he had also didn't look great at basketball in those moments. But also within that series, Steph was the top of

the food chain. The entire Cavalier defense was thrown at him, whereas Kyrie when he was having his moments with with the ball in his hands, it was more like Lebron ran the show two thirds of the time, attracted all the defensive attention, made all the decisions, did everything, and was their best defensive player, but would just hand the ball to Kyrie about once every three possessions, and he would take some rest on the other side of the floor, and Kyrie wud attack Clay Thompson in one on one

defense with very little help. And that was his job. And Kyrie did great in that job. But he had an easier job, a significantly easier job than what Steph did in that series. And so that that's why I've always had a huge problem with that. The book is out on Kyrie Irving, we have too much evidence of what it looks like when he's at the top of the food chain the way that Steph is. When Steph is at the top of the food chain, you get

league m vps, you get championships. Even if you throw out the Kevin Durant years, he got a championship in two thousand fifteen and one sixty seven games that year and one seventy three games the following year. We know what it looks like when Steph is the guy. We also know what it looks like when Kyrie is the guy, and it's very different. But that said, it's it's also okay to acknowledge that Kyrie is better at those very

very very specific skills that are significantly less valuable. And I think you know, and lastly, as far as the shooting goes, it too often people gloss over it. They'll be like, oh, well, you know, steps steps a better shooter, Kyrie is better at the other stuff. It's like, uh, he's so so, so, so so much better as a shooter. He's so monumentally better than every single one of his peers at that specific skill that it actually makes for a significant gap in the way that they impact the

basketball game. It's the same thing with Lebron and KD. You go, well, Katie's better at this, this, this, and this, but Lebron is a better passer. It's like, actually, Lebron is one of the best passers in league history, and that actually makes up a significant gap in the things that they can do as scores. You know what I mean, Or you know, Lebron is better at the rim, but Katie is better from the perimeter. Okay, Well, Lebron literally shoots like at the rim, even at his old age

in the playoffs. So like, at a certain point, like you have to account for that's a gigantic chasm in the way that they perform at that very specific thing. And so I and to your point, it's all about what you do in the five on five. What you do in one on one that's fantasy basketball, because that

doesn't exist anywhere on in in in the NBA. It's all about what you do in the five on five setting, not just in one possession, but over the sixty eight possessions that happened in the basketball game or depending on at the pace in any given game. Those are the things that actually matter. And so looking outside of that realm,

to me, is just a waste of everybody's time. So, like, not to bring this full circle, but you said, how like the book is out on Kyrie, right like as a number one option, right Like you kind of know what you're getting. You could kind of say some of the things about Russell Westbrook, right like as a number one option. You know what that kind of looks like, Right We've seen the playoffs, we see the bad shooting kind of come to the forefront when he is the main,

high usage, high level only shot creator. But like when you watch the nets and when Kyrie is the third option, it looks absolutely unstoppable, and you're like, you have you have a Katie fire going here, you have a hard and fire going here, and then you're supposed to guard Kyrie, who's maybe one of the best one on one players seven. It just looks unfair. At times people are like, oh, I gotta throw my third best defender on Kyrie, Like this is kind of unfair. He's cooking this guy, you know.

So that's kind of the interesting point to me, is like when I look at that from a Westbrook realm as well, like Westbrook as a third option kind of thing, where can he thrive doing that as well. So I just bring in that full circle, like, you're right, there's Kyrie has a lot of kind of flaws in terms of a five and five team game, and you're right, there's no one on one situations. But in a five on five game, there are one on one situations that you come up and and and it's not and it's

not as much in the playoffs. Around the playoffs, teams are a lot more locked in. They kind of are schemed out. You're not playing one on one in the playoffs because everyone knows what everyone's doing. But in the regular season there are one on one situations where Kyrie

can kind of create. And I'm interested just from that kind of situation where to see Westbrook, who also you know, as a number one option, had his flaws, but you know, again next to Lebron, which is funny, like they both kind of want Kyrie obviously one with Lebron, and now Westbrook gets his chance um as a third option. I'm interested to see him um in that role too. But yeah, it's a interesting conversation. And Steph, I think is another

tier than Kyrie. I don't think you'll get a lot of push back from that, Um, I think the skill versus I think I think what Mike James is talking about is a different conversation. Like it just is Kyrie is probably more offensively, just has more total package in his bag, But can you pull that out in a game? And I think that's what you're saying, right, Like your back can be full, but if it has a zip or closed on it for a lot of it, then what's the point I guess, so like that that's a

distinction there. Um, I agree with you. It's been the case for Lebron his entire career is like you never are wondering where he's at on the floor on defense, he's the one on the back line communicating everything and disrupting everything at the rim. On offense, even when he doesn't have the ball, he's kind of pointing guys around telling him where to go. It's a it's an impact

every single possession of the game. And Steph is the same way because if Steph wants to go rest for a possession in the corner, all he has to do really is come off of a pin down and he's going to draw two guys and then everyone else can kind of do their things. So the value is is impossible to quantify in just a one on one skill set. You know, it's the latest example of how crazy fans are because you know, I'm a I'm a huge Lebron fan, man, like Lebron got me into basketball. Like I'm as big

a Lebron fan as you'll find out. I'm not one of those crazy guys who will tweet out the ten Commandments of Lebron or anything like we saw last a couple of months ago. But at the end of the day, like I'm a big Lebron fan. Hey, guess what, I think Kevin Durant is better at shooting than him, and I think he's a better ball handler, and I think he has a more polished scoring package. It's like, like, there are a lot of things that I think Lebron is not as good at as some of his peers.

That doesn't mean I don't think he's still the best player. It's just it's okay to to try to be kind of reasonable about this stuff and discuss, you know, the totality of a player's uh package on the basketball court, rather than just you know, being what you and I have talked about a lot, a lot This past month being yes men and just like valiantly coming to the defense of absolutely anything involving a topic, regardless of of any sort of objectivity. But anyways, there anything else you

wanted to say today before we call it today? Man, No, I think that's good. Season are gonna be coming, so get ready. It's like a thirty days away. I think from October three is the first preseason game, so like thirty two days. But yeah, we're going to pick it up here for sure. Yeah, and we're gonna do a mail back probably Friday, so uh, Roger and I'll tweet something out maybe tomorrow and get some questions from you guys, and then we'll just do a full podcast that we

just do mail back questions later in the week. But Roger, I appreciate you as always, Thank you everyone for listening, and I will get this one uploaded to the podcast feed here shortly. Thanks everyone,