Episode 73: Lakers Defense, Ariza/Ellington, LeBron's Motivation

still extremely hot. So um, but I'm I feel like you'd be used to that. But yeah, some of the leagues are really cool place. It's a really nice mix of like really die hard fans you know, and uh, just a really different experience. The fans are like on top of the players, so like that there's people who want to like talk to the players and kind of uh, I don't know, go at them like if they miss a free though or something. You have people counting down

like Janice um when other people at the line. But it's so it's such a like a close knit experience. You got to go there at least once for sure. Well. And the other thing too, is I mean Twitter has been an interesting experience because it can be an ugly place sometimes, But at the same time, I've met so many great people on Twitter and have built good relationships.

And it seems like that, uh, that NBA Summer League in Vegas is just a great opportunity to meet a lot of the people that you've become friends with on this platform. And so, you know, as as much as as much as it's become a social media world, I think it'd be cool to meet a bunch of you guys in person. Plus I just love basketball and I'd love to get out there and and uh and get to experience that up close and personal, especially when it comes to the really fun part of being a fan,

which is evaluated young talent like that. Um. But yeah, it's good to be back. As much as I love birthday celebrations that they can get, they can drag on as you get older, because you get to the point where you have these like different connections all over the place,

whether it's this friend group or this family, your wife's family. Like, oh, the person who wasn't able to make it to the big friend things, so now you gotta do a separate thing with them, and then all of a sudden over the course of two weeks, you're just kind of NonStop doing stuff. So I'm kind of excited to just be thirty and and moving through my life now not have to be stressing about birthday stuff. But how was How

was San Diego though? Like if you were in my state now, like what was how what was San Diego like for you? So I I haven't been in six years. And if you look at my Instagram or of my Twitter page and you scroll down, I posted a picture of myself on this bridge six years ago with my wife, and uh, it has always been one of my favorite places on the planet. The weather is incredible, the food

is unbelo lievable. It's just to me, like, I've been to Los Angeles a lot because when I played basketball in college, a lot of my road games were in Los Angeles, so I spent probably I probably went there a dozen times during my years in college, and I'd like Los Angeles. Don't get me wrong, but I think San Diego is prettier. That's just that's just my personal opinion. I'm I'm sure some l A guys would probably disagree with me, but I can't wait to go back. I

hope to go back more frequently. And by the way, they were shockingly back at it in terms of like partying and like COVID doesn't exist out there. I in the weeks leading up, I was worried about that being an issue and ended up not being an issue. Um. Anyways,

let's get to the basketball. So, like, what we're gonna talk about today is, you know, for starters, We're gonna start with the defense for the Lakers, because fascinatingly enough, there seems to be almost a consensus among Lakers fans that the defense is going to take a step back this year, and I actually disagree, and I'm gonna explain why. Uh, and then we're gonna get your input on it and

kind of hash that out a little bit. We're gonna focus in on two particular role players today, Wayne Ellington and Trevor Reza, who I think are two of the more interesting players on this team in terms of guys that could potentially not play much at all, or guys who could be huge key rotation pieces in the playoffs, and and what could what could go right and wrong to lead that to happen. We're gonna talking about Lebron's comments yesterday and his his revival of the washed King narrative. Uh.

And then we're gonna if we have time at the end. Uh. We only have about forty five minutes today, but if we have time at the end, we're gonna talk about uh, the Kevin Durant and Draymond Green. Um, the the someone says in the comments. Someone in the comments says, I come in and you guys are just bragging about v ks, making me feel broken. Anyway, at the end, we're gonna touch on the Katie Draymond stuff. But let's get started

with the defense. So so here's the deal. Um, I think there there are three reasons why I think the Laker defense is going to be better this year. And I'm gonna try to touch on him quick and then we can kind of deep dive into him a little bit. Um. But obviously so many people are are kind of honed in on the fact that the guards aren't as good,

and I get that, I do. I I understand the sentiment. However, one of the most important things to understand is like, there's a reason why a guy like Ben McLemore gets plugged into the Lakers, and it doesn't work out defensively, and the reason why is because he's kind of set up to fail in the sense that he's not a

naturally great defender to begin with. But there was no training camp and there was no practice, and so you're taking a guy and you're basically hoping that you can just verbally tell him how to fit into your defensive scheme and then learn on the fly with these like ten minutes stints because he wasn't getting much playing time, you know, he wasn't getting these long drawn out stants where he could kind of figure out where his fit

is fit was with the defense. One of the reasons why, I think if you remember when a d first signed with the Lakers, there there was a similar pessimism surrounding the guard corps. Avery Bradley had been hurt most of

the previous two years. He had a reputation as being a good point of attack defender in Boston, but Clippers fans were reaching out the Lakers fans telling everyone that he was washed, you know, Rondo washed, you know KCP capable, but wasn't exactly the kind of pedigree of defender that he became with Anthony Davison Lebron uh Caruso. We knew he was a high effort guy, we didn't know he

was going to be this wrecking ball defensively. And that's not to say that this group this year is that talented, because they aren't. But there's a similar pessimism. And I really think giving Frank Vogel that full training camp with them and in the normal season with normal practices is gonna at least give them their best chance to fulfill their role. And there is some defensive talent there talent. Horton Tucker has a great deal of defensive talent. Russell

Westbrook is capable. Kemp Baysmore actually has had stretches of being a really good defensive players. So I think training camp and practices are gonna help. Secondly, really quick. Last year, the vast majority of center minutes were played by Montrese harrold uh, Andre Drummond, and Marcusol and they split those minutes just about evenly. Anthony Davis almost played no center.

And the number one action that teams run on offense, especially during the regular season, is pick and roll, and the number one pick and roll defender on on the Lakers for the vast majority of those possessions was one of those three guys. Well, this year, the vast majority of the center minutes I think are going to be split between Dwight and a D. That's a significant upgrade.

As much help as a D can provide off the ball, he's actually significantly more valuable in the screen action as the big man in his ability to kind of cover those gaps in a way that those guys last year couldn't. And then Dwight Howard's just better than those guys defensively, So I think you're getting a big upgrade in terms of your pick and roll defense. And Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond, and then lastly, Trevor Reasa. I think you know, Kyle Kuzma became a good help defender last year. He

became an okay on ball defender. Uh Mark Kief was okay on the ball, is better in the post, not great on the perimeter, but he was kind of bad in rotations and stuff like that. Trevor Reason, even at the back end of his career, is a significant upgrade in terms of on ball defense and veteran savvy off ball defense, knowing when to commit when not to commit. Big game reps for all of that stuff. So those three things in particular are why I'm a little bit

more optimistic about them defensively this year. What about what I just said, do you think I'm wrong about Are you also optimistic that there will be a good defensive team this year or do you think there will be a slit? I think you made good points. They are

like you talked about Kyle Kuzma. I think he's like the face of this for me because it's kind of crazy when he left, um the kind of national media it was like, oh, who's gonna defend now, which is just wild to me because when Kyle Kuzma was here, he was known as a bad defender, like he could not defend before you know, he got with Vogel and really um up to his health defense, up to up this point of attack defense. To me, it's just all

it's like reputation versus ability, right. It's kind of like Russell Russell Westbrook can defend, like he has all the tools, but he just never shown it the last few years to be a good defender. Um, say Trevor Reason, I think people are worried about his age a little bit. Um. I know you talked about him. I'm worried about himing at that age in the AD two game season. I think a D two versus sixteen this is kind of what we're discussing here in the regular season, Like how

much effort is he gonna have? Um defensively Lebron as well? Right, Lebron, is he gonna put up another crazy defensive year? Like, I think that's where the thing is here. Um, Anthony Davis will be the rock on that team. All obviously he will be the center, but uh, in that starting line up, to me, I still think Mark's gonna start so like for me, I feel like eight is not

gonna start at the five. I think I think we talked about this, so like your defense there Westbrook, Lebron, maybe any whoever's that the guard spot also doesn't have a reputable defense, right if it's Wayne Alington, Malik Monk, maybe it's Kendrick Nunn, who's a little bit better as a pointed to tack Fender. But that's where my pessimism is. UM, I think Vogel should get the benefit of the doubt.

Like last year, I think Bron and a D played like twenty games together something, and they still kept the number one defense, But I think that's where the question is for me, Like for you, how much do you think Lebron will be bought in? I guess defensively um this season, because I think that's where it is, um And we'll discuss his like comments, I guess later, But like just him on the defensive end, I think that's where we have to see and Westbrook as well. He's

gonna have to show it. Westbrook has been in this league for way too long to have the benefit benefit of the doubt defensively, and I think that's where it's so key to me. Your guards need to have some level of awareness on defense to to have an impact there, to have a good defensive team, and I think the Acres last year they did. Um. You can credit the coaching stuff, but you always talk about it credit the

players as well for getting better on that end. The players have to put in the work and they did. We had good defensive cards and we'll see this year. But I think that's where most of the pessimism is, at least for me too. I think we're gonna score score like hell, but like staying in front of guys that that's probably worried about a d can clean up a lot, but I mean, how much can you clean up?

Is my question there? But yeah, for you, how much do you think Lebron is gonna be Because I think he's a big key of that starting lineup he's gonna be He's gonna have to be the second secondary uh secondary health defender if it's Marcusol at center. So where do you think pretty much do you think Lebron buys in this this year? I think Lebron is gonna have a great defensive season. The really short easy answer there is that he has He's gonna have less offensive responsibility

than ever before. Um I can't think of a single season in my time watching and rooting for Lebron where he's going to have less on his plate offensively, He's going to be able to have entire games where Russ really has it going, or he can take on a tertiary role. Now whether or not he even wants that is is another story. But I think he's going to

have a lot of We know Lebron. Lebron likes to be the center of attention, and it actually manifests in a good way in a situation like this because Lebron is so capable of impacting the game without the basketball in his hands that he's that guy that, like, if the crowd's really into it and Russ is Russ is the star of the show, Lebron's gonna try to squeeze his way in there and be the start. But not by taking shots. He's gonna do it by defending, by

getting out transition and trying to get dunks. He He's done this periodically over the years with Kyrie, with Dwayne Wade, where like he finds a way to stay visible on the court through what he does off the ball defensively and then just as a rebounder, just a just a

big presence on the floor. Um, you know, don't forget like they're not going to go into training camp and have Frank Vogel walk in and be like, all right, guys, so we're gonna be a lesser defensive team this year because you know, Kendrick, you suck and you know the MO League you can't defend either. So what we're gonna do is we're just gonna focus on the offensive end. Now,

that's not what he's gonna say. You know what Frank Vogel is gonna come in there and say, hey, guys, guess what, We're gonna be the best defensive team in the league this year. That's what he's gonna say. That's gonna be the identity of the team. That's gonna be

what Frank's focus is. Now. Does Frank have different pieces to work with this year, Yes, But like I discussed earlier, your pick and roll defense is going to shift from a combination of Mark uh marcusol, Andre Drummond, and Montrez Harold to a combination of Marcus al Dwight Howard, and Anthony Davis. That's a gigantic upgrade. And your big man pick and roll defense. You know, minutes that we're going to Mark, Keith and Kuzma are now going to go to Areza and mellow That's mellow As is a less

than good defensive player, but Ariza is better. So I would argue that's a slide upgrade there. He's gonna look at the guards and he's gonna say, okay, a little thinner, we have guys who can defend at the point of attack, but guys that can't. And he's going to build a scheme that is going to work. He's going to think

in terms of lineups. He's gonna think, Okay, my bench lineup is going to center around Kendrick Nunn and Malik Monk with Lebron and Dwight Howard and some other wing to be so with this group, we need to use a funneling defense where we chase guys off the line and try to always force him to the middle, where Dwight or whatever. I'm just coming up a baseline or middle.

I don't know what his scheme is gonna be. He's going to figure out what he thinks is gonna work with that specific lineup and they'll shift around and that that's just that to me is like, as much as we are pessimistic, I have a feeling that Frank Vogel is actually kind of chomping at the bit here to get to work with these guys because I would be willing to bet he thinks they're going to be a

great defensive team this year. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean we can say this is offensive team, but Frank Vogel obviously like his thing is defense, even so times at a detriment to the offense. Right, He's gonna pick defense over offense. Um every single time. I think you're right with that, though, Like just on the basketball floor, I think this is this has to be a funneling type of defense, Um funneling or a switching defense, depending on the kind of personnel. But I think funneling probably

makes more sense. Um again, because I don't believe that he's gonna play the five as much as you know people think he is. But if it's like a D and Dwight, then you can really have the guards kind of funnel. I think that's one thing that Frank Vogel

is really good at. He's good at like kind of explaining his scheme right, making it kind of simplified for the guys on the floor, Um, kind of forcing guys into the paint Um, and then a D and Lebron can kind of be those crazy health defenders or ADI kind of gets steals that come to the corner and stuff stuff like that. Like that's how I believe this team will defend. But then it remains to be seen.

Like when you have guys like Westbrook Carmelo and you're you know, in your rotation like that, you give up stuff defensively. That's just how it works. Guys can kind of pick on him, um, and he can get back on Vick back on them on the offensive end. But that's I guess where the concern is. But yeah, I think I agree, like it has to be a funneling defense or if eighties at the five, you can kind of switch a little bit with bron and Brandon a d at the four or five. But it remains to

be seen. But I'm not as optimistic as like a top five defense. I'm not. I'm not sure. I think if they can stay top ten and with the offensive jumps that they have, I think you can make up for the margin and make them a better team than they were last year for sure. But that because that's where I want to see it first. Um, because again I think Mark's gonna start and then Dwight off the bench, Dwyan Dwight as your main center. Um, well, we'll see how that works. But I'm interested to see how like

they defend defend with that. I think that in terms of the scheme of the defense, they have a lot more versatility than I think people realize. Uh, they can go with a you know, everyone thinks that this Laker team has no point of attack defense. I would actually disagree I think that one of Russ's strengths actually his point of attack defense. It's probably his only defensive strength.

But but it's something where when he when he he's such a competitor, he gives a ship so like he's just gonna be, you know, against specific matchups, he's gonna take that point of attack role personally. Now, if you imagine a line up with Russell Westbrook, Talent, Horton, Tucker Kemp, bays Moore, Lebron and Anthony Davis, that's an excellent point of attack defense team. That's a team that's not going

to give up a ton of straight line drives. Now you can imagine a switching defensive lineup that's got Anthony Davis at the five, Lebron at the four, Trevor Reesa at the three. You know, bays Moore and Russ. Now you know, I'm six five or bigger two through five, and Russ is super strong and athletics, so I can probably switch everything in that lineup. That's a switching lineup that would work. And then you know lineups that have

none in Monk in the backcourt. Maybe you play a D at the four with Dwight Howard and you go big in the front court, you trust all the shooting off of Anthony Davis to generate space, and you just continually funnel Chase all You give them an easy role. Look, Malik, I know you haven't been a great defensive player in your career. All I need you to do is chase

these guy eyes off the line. If you can chase him off the line, I've got Dwight Howard and Anthony Davis behind you, They're gonna be able to clean up a lot of your messes. There's a versatility with the lineup that I think again, with a full training camp and with the full uh set of normal practices that I think that this Lakers team is going to be able to defend. I personally think they will end up as a top five defense this year, just in terms

of their depth. Frank Vogel, you know, the chip on their shoulder, the identity of the team, so on and so forth. Is there anything else you want to talk about with the defense before we move on? Yeah, I think the depth is a good point. You look down that roster and it's like tough to see who's not going to play right, Like, like I go down, Um, you were asking me, like, what end of the bench

guys you're thinking, and I'm going down the roster. I'm like, I don't even know who's the end of the bench guy right now, because I'm not really sure. We have like twelve thirteen guys who can play. And again, maybe that would bode well for guys like a Resa who can kind of play eighteen or fifteen minutes and just be you know, just be crazy active defensively in those minutes instead of having to be relied on for like

the thirty. Again, guys like Monk None, all those dudes have the ability to play defense, like they have all the tools. It's just can they fit into the scheme? Do? Will they you know, be engaged? Will they make the rotations? You know, care about the little things? These are all guys who want another contract, you know, only all this stuff kind of goes into this this kind of stuff. So um, that's what I'm interested in. Will they do the little things? But yeah, I think we covered pretty

nicely how the defense defense would shape UK. I think I think they'll do the little things well too. And and the very last thing I'll say and then we'll move on, is like we have two years of likeer defense. We have a year where they were the best in the West, but two Eastern Conference teams had better defensive ratings in a historically weak defensive Eastern Conference from from basically from eight to fifteen in that conference was absolute garbage.

So as as you and I have discussed at length, a lot of the advanced metrics from that season don't make a ton of sense, uh, particularly in the Eastern Conference. So I thought the Lakers were the best defense in in the league that year. I think they proved it. And then last year they actually were the best defensive team in the league. So I inc And there was a ton of roster turnover. You could have actually argued that shifting to Marcusol and Montrese Harrold was going to

be a downgrade defensively last year. Uh. In Dennis Shrewder, as good as he is as a ball pressure guard, he kind of brings his whole other slew of defensive shortcomings because of his size. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see. Will keep an eye on it. But I just wanted to kind of express where I'm at with the whole thing and let you know why I'm optimistic

about it. But let's move on to Aresa, because this is another thing that I'm I'm kind of in the in the you know, I was listening to the LFR pod yesterday, I think, actually, and they did a pot on Areza and Mellow and there was a lot of pessimism surrounding Aresa from those guys, and you know, a lot of it does make sense, you know, like, Uh, Trevor Reason, even though he was a great athlete in

his prime, he's certainly on the back end in that regard. Uh, he did not look great against Milwaukee and the playoffs last year. However, I would as a cautionary tale, like when a team gets swept and the wheels come off like that. I tend to think that. I mean, like, look at the Lakers last year. A lot of guys you got paid this year didn't look great in that in in that specific matchup. But the point being is that, you know, I'm gonna The reason why I'm optimistic about

a reason is pretty simple. You when you're when you are in that fifth guy in the lineup type of spot, so much it's more about what you can screw up than what you can help, you know what I mean?

So for instance, like if I'm running a bench lineup and I need a primary ball handler, I'd rather go small and play someone like Malik Monk at the two or at the three, even even if I had to play him at the three and the three guard lineup, because I need dribble creation and he at that point is almost at the top of the food chain for that particular lineup. But a Reason is never going to be that guy. A Reason is always going to be on the floor with super high end creators in Russell

Westbrook and Bron James. He'll never play a minute this year without either Russell Westbrook or Lebron James on the floor. He's going to be at the end of the lineup where all you really need is for him not to screw things up. He's not an elite three point shooter, but he's not a guy you can completely leave button naked all the time, so that's that's not gonna really

hurt your spacing all that much. And then, defensively, even at this stage of his career, he's actually better than any wing defensive player that the Lakers have had in recent years. Now, the last thing I'll say about a Reason before before I let you go is there's something to be said about his minutes. If you look at his Basketball Reference sheet, he's always playing. Not only that, he's always playing a lot. Okay, since he became a

bona fide rotation player. Last year was his lowest minutes total, and he played twenty eight minutes a game. Twenty eight minutes a game would have been one of the top rotation players last year on the Lakers. Now what does that mean. It just means that, for whatever reason, coaches trust this guy as that fifth guy in their lineup. And I think Frank will too. If you look throughout his Basketball reference sheet on every one of these teams, he's just constantly slot in is that fifth guy. And

it's because he doesn't make mistakes. He shoots wide open shots, he makes simple reads at a close outs, and he defends at a high level, which is all you need out of that fifth starter. That's all you need. Did stop thinking about him being with the Lakers back in in two thousand nine reverse dunking on dudes, Okay, that's not That's not what his role is going to be

on this team. It is going to be a master, like a completely simplified role that I think at his at his age and with his experience, he's going to excel at Yeah, for sure. The reason is a guy that like you know, Lia your fans love because of that time. But I'm just watching him now. To me, he's like he's not obviously as good as Andre Iguodala, but like he's in that kind of like older kind of statesman and I think he can do what p J. Tucker did right in the playoffs this year. Like to me,

he's in he's in some gap between those two. To me, like he's a better shooter I think than p J. Tucker showed he can be um and he's not the playmaker you doll is, But he's the guy that he's just a glue guy. He knows how to play the game of basketball. He knows how to find fine guys when when they're open um he makes a simple reads um. He knows like if the help comes here, you know, sort of fast and twenty eight minutes the game. I did not know that. I did not know he played

that much last year. But Eric Spoelsa doesn't, you know, take fools. He doesn't just play you if if uh, if you if you don't know what you're doing. So obviously he was he got something there, and uh, Miami obviously trusted him. But I think you're right. I think that's the biggest thing here is ten two minutes go to like eighteen or twenty, and then he can be super charged in those minutes, um, instead of you know,

having to play twenty eight minutes. Because maybe that's why some of the you know, some he looks kind of slow sometimes and that's expected at thirty five years old. But I think, to me, he's another like you know, last year we got a lot of at two game players like Montres Harrold was an AD two game player. Um. When you look at the signing, Dennis Shrewder ended up

being kind of like a T two game player. Um. But Trevor Lee's Trevor reasons a sixteen game player to me, Like what he does in the regular season, Um, he'll have good, he'll he have bad, he'll have ups and downs, he'll look slow sometimes, but I think in the sixteen game playoff setting, that's the guy you wanted your team, and that's what matters to me here. Um, he's a

guy that you can throw on the best wing. Defender and you could just say, hey, stick him and then go stand in the corner on offense, and he can do that. He'll play his role um, and I think that's what's really interesting about him. And yeah, I'm I'm I'm more optimistic about Trevor reason than I think most of the national media's. I think he will defend well.

He's one of the guys that's been a good defender no matter how old he has been so and he knows what he's doing, so so I agree with you there. It's interesting because he he's used to being the physical presence in these lineups. And you know when you watch with Miami for instance, you know they have bam Um, but like they were using him as their primary wing defensive player you look at to add size and length and athleticism the Rockets team. Literally, he's playing on a

Rockets team that's playing Chris Paul and James Harden. The vast majority of their athleticism in that lineup was tied up in in Trevor Reasa because it'd be like Eric Gordon at the three, and then like Clint Capella, who wasn't guarding on the wing, but he was playing in that lineup. To the point being is like, this guy is used to being the guy that coaches insert into the lineup to be the six eight switchy wing that can kind of cover a lot of ground and make

up for shortcomings from their smaller, less athletic guards. Well, now he's gonna be the third or fourth most athletic guy in every lineup, So like he's gonna be playing alongside Lebron and Anthony Davis, Lebron and Anthony Davison lineups that are just massively physically imposing. That to me is the exciting part. And you know, you said sixteen game player, and I agree, Like his great value will be in

those playoff moments. And the reason why is, like I just said you we we watched the Bucks fall down to zero in back to back series, not back to back, in two series, and they actually lost Game one against Atlanta too, But over the course of those series, their physicality just eventually won the day. As things continued on, the other team just got tired and physically beat in a way that they couldn't match their intensity, and then it ended up costing them series and and and it

won the Bucks the championship. I think the Lakers are gonna have a similar impact on teams, and I think a reason is going to be a huge part of that. When you run lineups that have Russ baysmore Areasa Lebron in a D that is just a gigantic, like bludgeoning lineup in terms of just physical strength and power and

athleticism and that sort of thing. You know, if you just Opareza for Kyle Kuzma, that already just becomes a significantly less physically imposing lineup because Kuzma, you know, we give him the reputation, uh or he earns the reputation of being a lesser defender. We give him props for turning himself into a possible defender. He never became a high end defensive player that that that never happened. He

had his moments, but he was inconsistent. We just were giving him props for turning what was kind of a huge negative into something that was possible. Areza is an above average player even at this point in his career on the defensive end of the floor. Him plugging him instead of Kuzma into that lineup, in my opinion, is an upgrade in a playoff series in terms of that physicality,

in that length and athleticism. So I I I think that I agree with you in the sense that he's going to be one of their biggest weapons in all of their key lineups in the playoffs. Yeah, for sure. And he has He's another guy with like a seven two wings fan right, just huge arms can really get steals out. I think about a lineup with like we're not talking about th HD today, but like th h T or Reza, you know a D and you throw Lebron and whoever at the point, Russ or whatever. That's

just a lot of arms going everywhere. And he's another guy like I think Vogel also comes from like that spolster kind of He's gonna go with defense man like Trevor Reason is a guy who can defend. Um, he has a chance to start too. I feel like like he could. He could start on this team. Um, if he's the best defender in camp, I think he will at the two. That's just the way Vogel kind of works. So um yeah, I think he's gonna get minutes on this team. Again, like I would like him in the

eighteen twenty minute. I think we have enough guard. You talked about the depth the depth earlier, like we have enough guards on this team like that can kind of play. Um, a whole bunch of guys are gonna need minutes. And I think that works well for these older dudes, like like a Reason who can just you know, focus on his role defend and uh defending, hit hit corner threes.

And I think he does that well. I think like half his shots came from three last year, if I if I looked at the numbers correctly, Um, so, uh yeah it was something like that if I remember correctly. Yeah. So he's a guy who's like a three n D and knows exactly what it is. You know, he's not gonna try to run pick and roles. He's not going to do anything that's out of his scope. He knows exactly what he is in the NBA. He knows what stuck him in the NBA, and he's gonna do that.

I think those kind of players fit really well on a team full of you know, guys who need the ball, who need touches, all that stuff. A Reason as a guy just that can just fit in and that you talked about that he's a glue guy and he's why he's playing twenty eight minutes a game, which is really high for a guy at that age. I did not think he was playing. I don't even know Lebron played like thirty two or something, which is just which is just it's just funny to look at the reasons and

it's in that in that way. But yeah, he's a guy who's gonna play. He's a glue guy and and he fits well into this this court for sure. He kind of reminds me of Wesley Matthews in the sense that like it's it's about the fact that he won't

make mistakes, you know, like you can. Wesley Matthews did not shoot the ball particularly well last year, but he was still one of my favorite plug ins for lineups as a fifth guy as long as everything else was kind of cover by the other four players because of the fact that he just doesn't make mistakes and he competes on the defensive end. He's like a small forward

version of Wesley Matthews. So last year, Lakers minutes uh k C p KCP played twenty eight minutes a game, So that gives you an idea of just the kind of role that Kyle Kuzma had and again like or excuse me, that Trevor Reasa had last year and and that was down from previous season. So the point is is like, if NBA coaches keep putting him into the lineup, then clearly there's value there. But let's let's go on to Ellington. And I want you to go first on

this one. So what you you specifically mentioned that you wanted to talk about Ellington today? Why did you want to talk about Ellington? What has he so excited about him? I feel like he brings something that we just haven't had UM on this team in like two or three years. Actually just a guy, just a movement shooter, you know what I mean? I think that changes so much when you have a screener like a D so, like when you have actions like where Ellington, because the Lakers run

this run this action a lot. They start a shooter in the corner, right, so they started so sometimes this KCP. But whoever it is, Avery Bradley did this a lot, right, He had this triple handoff with Dwight Howard that they would run a lot off the bench. Um he'd come out. But every Baddley is not a three point threat. So like every Badley would come off and he's at the free throw line and it was effective. Avery Bradley hit his majoring jumpers or throw that loft to Dwight Wayne

Ellington can do that behind the three point line. So like that screen and kind of move up and I think it's really exciting. Um, he was in like the I was looking at his numbers. He's with in like the seventy six percentile as an off screen shooter. These guys really comfortable moving off screens. Um, and just being able to fire like that and having a shooter like that, I think changes everything. When you have a guy like Russ Braun a d just a guy can fit. Um.

I know you were talking about that. You don't think he's gonna play much, but I just feel like having that kind of dead eye shooter who can fire away, who can get hot, shoot shoot from three, Um, it's something we just haven't seen on this team. So what do you think about him, Deed? Do you think like my excitement is is a little bit overflowing on him or what do you think? Because I'm really excited to have a shooter of this caliber. K CP couldn't shoot

like this coming out the screens. KCP was one of a spot up guy. He hit a few kind of curl shots, but not not in this way. Wellington is really good at like catching and then squaring up really quickly, um and not having to you know, set his feet and stuff like that in a way that our other shooters did. Yeah. So Ellington is a player that I've probably changed my opinion about the most since the signing. When he first signed, I just I thought of him.

His first signing kind of reminded me of Troy Daniels a couple of years ago. I don't know if you remember that. We're like, we're like the Kauai news hadn't even come down yet, and then it was just like Troy Daniels has agreed to a minimum deal and you're like they're like okay, Like I get Like it was it was clear that it was one of those deals that he just didn't carry. He was just going to the Lakers. You just assumed he was going to be an end of the bench guy, and he basically was.

He barely played that year. Well that's what I thought about the the Ellington signing at first, because it was weird. It was like really quick it was early in free agency, none of the other chips had really fallen yet, and it was just like, oh, by the way, Wayne Ellington's gonna be a Laker, Okay, cool? Well, um, you know, uh,

I was really interested. I got intrigued by him after listening to the JJ Reddick podcast um when he said that the most underrated signings, as most underrated signing from the Lakers this past summer was the Wayne Ellington signing, and he just said because he thinks that he's one of the best shooters in the game just from his personal experience. And then he also said something that I thought was interesting. He's like, he's one of the best

competitors that I've played with. And I thought that was really interesting because to me, defense in particulars all about competitiveness.

It's all about this idea that you know, you have a certain amount of physical tools, which Ellington is going to be a below average defensive player in terms of his physical tools at the position, but so much of it can be made up for just with giving a ship and and caring, and to me, that comes from your competitive nature and and that that to is something that uh that that brought me back around to look into Ellington. So as I started to look into him,

a couple of things stood out to me. One, he's bigger than I thought he was, which was interesting because I for some reason I thought he was in that like kind of like six two range. But it turns out he's six four without shoes on, so he's actually

got some size to him. And then two kind of similar to what I was saying about Aresa, he plays a lot, and he was on a team in Detroit where they had a lot of young guys and they were rebuilding and they were trying to give minutes to young guys, and he was started when he was there, And think think about what that would take, like the coaching staff deciding to start Wayne Ellington kind of a known commodity at this point in his career over prioritizing youth.

And I think the reason why is because they knew in it actually helped the younger players because of all the little things he did on the floor to create base, to give them the ability to run to to run actions for him and so on and so forth. That that to me gets me excited, and and that that particular play that you're talking about, the one that they

used to. There was a famous moment last year. I don't know if you can remember which game it was, but when they ran that Horn's action with the pin down handoff for Avery Bradley like five times in a row and he scored a time. I can't remember who they were playing, but it was something like that. But

the Jazz, the Jazz. But that sounds about right, yeah, But like it's funny because like the Lakers, you know, Lebron and Anthony Davis have such high basketball I cues and they don't care about how they score that they were just willing to keep running the play because they didn't care. All they cared about was the fact that they were scoring. And you know what's funny is this

year and this isn't just Ellington, this is Monk. This is especially Kendrick Nunn because he's so good on drible handoffs. They actually have three really good options to run that specific action with and and Ellington is really really exciting because he's actually a lot better than any of those guys at catching and firing with just the smallest amount of space, which is the kind of thing that causes

defenses to panic and start to jump. That action, which is what leads to stuff like Anthony Davis slipping that screen or Dwight Howard slipping that screen, and now you've got, uh, you know, a rim run that's uncontested or one that's gonna lead to a wide open three on the backside. And so just he brings a unique threat that really no one else on the roster, even Malik Monk. Although Molik Monk is a pretty good quick release, catching fire type of guy, Ellington is just better than him at that.

So having having that as an option I think will actually end up getting him quite a bit of burn in a way that I didn't think so when he first got signed. Yeah, and it just opens the floor.

I mean, like that again, if you go run, go watch those actions like Dwight and e d or whoever setting those picks like they're in there below the three point line, like near the freedlow line, and they're like Ellington can kind of in Casey is not as comfortable right pulling up from three in these actions, Ellington is, he'll just fire. Um. I think he's a little bit of ball handler too. I don't know how much a better passer he is. He's a little bit a ball handler.

He can on the floor, he can hit like step back three, side step three. He's like he's really comfortable, um, shooting all types of ways. And he talked about his like you see on J J J j Reddick's podcast, he's competitive. Um, I could see that. But like, you know, if if Wayne Ellington was like a two way guy, you're not getting him for the minimum. So like I'm going into this thinking like he's a he's a one one way guy who can play defense. And I think

that's the way I'll kind of look at him. Um, if he depends, well that's great. I think he can fit in the scheme for sure. And yeah, the Troy Daniels I saw that comp a lot too. Um, But like he's six five, Like that's I mean, at least on Google existed at six five maybe six more. It's a good size at the guard position, at the two guard position, with the amount of length and um height that he'll have around him. But yeah, I'm just excited

to have a movement shooter like this. Um, A guy who doesn't doesn't just need to be spot up, you know what I mean, Because you saw in the playoffs how that kind of works. Seems to kind of get back to that. But a guy you have to top lock on, a guy you have to chase over the top. You can't just go under on his screens. Um, if you're even a little bit short. Last year, I think

it was his best shooting in a while. So I'm not sure if you'll shoot or whatever he shot last year, But if that's I like thirty percent on the type of volume that he takes and the type of shot quality that he takes, then Uh, I'm really excited about having a guy guy like this because I think he's the best shooter that we sign. Yeah, and he's gonna be able to They're gonna be able to weaponize him

as a screener to which I think is exciting. This is something that the Warriors do with stuff all the time. But when you've got a shooter that you have to top lock on, but at the same time you can't switch, uh, because he'll just run the big guy off a screen

and end up causing problems. Is as long as he can set a really solid back screen on Anthony Davis's man, it kind of puts them in the awkward position now where the little guy can't leave Ellington because he's in that lock and trail and the big guys caught on the screen, Anthony Davis just cuts back door, there's a wide and dunk. That kind of thing is there's a lot of actions there that they will be able to run that they just haven't been able to run in

recent years. Did you have anything else on Ellington before we move on to the Lebron comments. Yeah, obviously I'm not going to compare him to Staff. No one's Steph. I mean just like, so don't kill me. But like you can just see how like even having one insane shooter changes the whole defense, right, just even one like Steph is the really only guy, but still just him his movement and Aalantine is not a guy that just

stands there. He actually does move. He's really active, you know, on the floor, and just having one guy like that just changes the concept of the floor um, the floor balance. And like you talked about Lebron a d Russ high basketball accused, Well, we'll know how to kind of use that and and take advantage of it. And I'm interested to see what kind of vogel comes up with that. So I think they have a lot of things to work on. But I'm just excited to have this, uh,

this level of shooting on the roster. I agree and there and yet they got a full training camp to try to figure out how to make these guys work. And competition is a good thing. Like when you have positional competition like this, it's it's there's a pressure on everybody to do their job to an even higher level because they know that if they don't, there's another option behind them that might be willing to do the work that you're not willing to do. Um, that kind of

competition is good. Okay, So let's quickly touch on this, this Lebron thing. So I think it's interesting because you know, you know, this is something that everyone is so incredibly sensitive about, and I get in trouble literally just for even saying that that Lebron can be a little bit corny. And then I'll have people in my mentions calling me out. But um, to me, this was a big non issue.

But for those of you you guys who didn't see, Lebron basically didn't get voted as the best player in the league by ten executives out there, uh and uh, Lebron basically just used it as an opportunity on Twitter to revive the washed King meme. So there are two things that I want to talk about this. First of all, let's just start here. Do you care at all that Lebron is going to these great lengths to motivate himself? No, I mean Lebron is a guy like just seems like

he's having fun with it. I mean, I don't understand the crazy I saw your tweets about it, and that's why I was gonna let you kind of get your spill off on this because like, I just think it's interesting. Man, he's a guy that's self motivated. I mean, you have to be to be at the ag is, to have the accomplishments. Think he does. The money he's made, he could stop right now. But I mean he's self motivated, and this is how that works, I guess. I like when I just look at like on the floor stuff,

like he was the finals MVP. To me, it was the m v P before he went down, you know what I mean. And then so like, of course he believes he's the best of why shouldn't he, Like that's on him. I don't get what the big deal is, and he has fun with it. He laughs about it. Um he, I don't know, I think that's that a gas station, Mean, like, was was that what that was the the pump pump? Me? Yeah, it was that a guy Okay, yes, but but yeah, he has fun with it,

and I think that's what's important. Man, it's not I don't think he takes it too serious, but obviously it's he motivates him. Um, you said Yannest is the best player in the league. Can you know you could say Katie's the best player in the league. There's arguments for both of those, but I mean the argument for Lebron too, and he just saying, uh, he's just pumping himself up.

And he did this. He does this a lot. And the only thing I'll say about this, Lebron has been a Laker for three seasons, right, and um he's got hurt in two of them, like pretty much. So like to me, it's all about health with Lebron, Like when he's healthy. He's been the best player in the league to me the last three years, and it's all about him staying healthy. So like this, but this is all really fun. And we're in August. I mean we have

like forty five days. Um, I think until preseason, which is kind of crazy and we're about to start here, but yeah, it's all fun. What do you what do you think about that? So on the on the motivation front, like throughout NBA history, this has been the way that this stuff goes like they're they're um and And this, for the record, is not something that's unique to stars.

This is for anybody who's a competitor in any I I personally when I play pick up sometimes like some kid will say something and I really shouldn't care, but for some reason, I'll just use it as an excuse

to rev up the engine a little bit. You know, you you come up with, you know, like for for a guy like Lebron, he literally plays in front of twenty thousand people eighty two times a year and then again in the playoffs on these big stages like there's in the there's a there's a certain like uh like long and drawn out process that is the the NBA regular season. And so if he uses these sorts of

things to motivate himself, who cares? And And Michael Jordan used to famously like there was a whole thing in the Last Dance about how he fabricated something that a role player on a bad team said to to to to to go off against some bad team, and then it turned out it never happened like that to me is just part of the process of trying to get through this stuff. And then I saw someone on Twitter say some some media guy go like wise Lebron so of ended that we think he's the third best player

instead of the best player. And I want to be like, have you ever ever ever met anybody who's good at anything? They want to be the best, like the are. They're arguably more offended by saying you're the third best than saying you're the twentie best, because that means you're close but not that guy yet you know, like that, it's so obvious why he might be able to draw some motivation from that. This is a guy in his nineteen season who, for more or less like has no chance

of improving any ground in the goat debate. You either think he is or he's not. I mean, like the that that ground is so overtrodden that everyone's really made up their mind. It doesn't really make a difference. But for whatever reason, like people can't relate to the fact that he uses it for for motivation. I think it's ridiculous. Now, let's talk about whether or not Lebron is the best player in the league, because this, to me is the

is the more interesting question. Now, uh, in this poll, there are ten executives and five of him voted for Janice and five of them voted for Kevin Durant. Now, I think that there are five players that have a case to be this guy Joannice, Kauai, Lebron, Stephen k d. You know, the Katie thing makes some sense to me. Katie is a different archetype of player of Lebron, but he's arguably mastered that archetype archetype to the same level.

What I mean by that is like in terms of the like ultra efficient three level score, who's just an absolute sniper type of jump shooter who also has the size to get those shots off against any defense. You know, Kevin Durant is the perfect version of that, and he demonstrated it at the highest level against Milwaukee, out playing Janice, I thought, comfortably and making it clear that he had a case to be the best player in the league.

You know, when I start talking about Janice, I'm talking about a player with some gaping holes in his game. You know, a guy that you know, even against just against Phoenix, like, he had a great deal of success defensively and had a great deal of success in semi transition, meaning when the defense wasn't set, he was unstoppable getting to the rim. But then in half court sets, you know, Eighton was able to square him up a little better.

And aside from a couple of you know, kind of strange foul calls, I thought those Sons actually defended him really well in the half court. You can actually see where Janice isn't that guy yet, you know what I mean. But like when I'm making the case for Lebron as the best player in the league, it's really simple. On the defensive end, is he a defensive Player of the Year type of candidate. No, But before he went down with injury last year, he probably was going to get

second team All Defense. And he's still is incredibly savvy as a back line defender with his hands underneath the basket and blocking shots above the rim. He's a great communicator, and he's still really good on the ball defensively, especially against the bigger, stronger wings in the league. He's probably the best body that you could throw at somebody like Kauai in the league right now in terms of the ability to handle his strength at the point of attack.

So Lebron still rings a great deal to the table defensively offensively when he's at his peak. We literally saw him in the playoffs last year. Have are in the in the bubble last year, have a playoff run where the average twenty points a game shooting well, Janics just average thirty points a game on shooting. So Lebron offensively still capable of generating offense at the highest possible level that a basketball player can generate offense. Then you have

his playmaking ability. He's arguably the best passer in the league. If you think someone like Yogi or Luca is better, he's still in that top three, which is a whole other facet of the game, especially in the playoffs, especially in the half court, when the windows are so tight and the defenses are so locked in and you need to generate high quality offense. Lebron crosses all those boxes and because of that, he absolutely has a case to be the best player in the league. It's that simple

to me. None of the other players that you encounter can cross those boxes the way that he does in terms of elite deep sense, elite playmaking, and elite scoring. There's literally zero guys in the league that can do that. He has to be considered and so any sort of push back that he might think he's the best, I

think is silly. Yeah, for sure, any you brought brought a bunch of basketball kind of um basketball takes with that, And I guess my things like we we always talk about like sixteen versus like eight two, right, um, And like to me, like if you're looking at a sixty if you need to win a playoff series, like who are you taking? You know what I mean? Like, to me, it's still Lebron. I think that kind of answers my

question with it. But like when you're talking to top three Katie stuff, like to me, you're splitting hairs like they're right, Like you're kind of splitting up and you can kind of give the edge to Lebron. You can give the edge to Katie whichever people prefer, I guess in this conversation. But yeah, like of course Lebron is gonna be mad you put him top three, Like that's like he's still the way he trains, the way he works, the way he like pays a million dollars I think

for his body every year. You know, all the kind of stuff, all the stories, all the things you hear um about how he works. Like, of course he's gonna be offended and offended about that. And I think that's okay. I think it's it's okay for him to do that used as motivation. I think it's fun. I think it's fine. I hope they I hope the executives keep going, like I hope they say he should come off the bench next year, Like I hope, I hope they say he should.

You know, I hope they say all kinds of stuff, you know, get him even more motivated for this season. Um, you know, say that he should retire, you know, say say all this kind of stuff. Because I'm I'm excited. I I put this in a tweet earlier, like I feel like there was a seriousness in a tone that was set in the beginning of the two thousand nineteen two twenty season. Um, you can go look up that. Well, I know it's a preseason game. I know, I know it didn't matter. I know it was you know, Stephan

D'Angel Russell in the back court. Like, I know all that stuff was what was on the floor, but just look at the tone and the and the like demeanor of the team, Like look at Anthony Davis, how he was he like how serious he was. Look at Lebron the tony was setting the his first and one. He was like screaming when they want to up tend nothing again in a preseason game. That means nothing on Draymond Green.

That means nothing when they've had multiple finals together. Like, I think there's a seriousness and a tone that was set in that season that wasn't there last year due to a bunch of circumstances that the title COVID, no fans, etcetera, etcetera. Um, and I think this year will get that type of same um series and tone set from day one, especially with Russ now coming on the team, such a new personality, such a new star, such a new you know, energy to the team. And and yeah, but I think Lebron

it's fine. I hope he continues to find things that motivate him. I hope Anthony Davis is reading all this stuff about how he's now a top ten player. Maybe maybe his top friend. Like, I hope they're reading all this stuff. I hope Russ is reading that. You know, he can't pass or whatever, he can't shoot whatever. So um, yeah,

but it should be a fun season, yea. This is that they had a reason to to let their foot off the gas last year for like having to do with the short turnaround, having to do with COVID, all that stuff that can't be that can be allowed this year. This this season needs to be an attack from the start. They have the depth, even for guys like Russell Lebron. You don't have to go out there and do what Luca does for eight two games. You guys are sharing

that burden and you're sharing it with Anthony Davis. So there's no excuse this year, obviously injury, as long as they can stay healthy. But as long as they can stay healthy, they need to attack this season and be NonStop prepping for this inevitable showdown, um with with the Brooklyn Nets in the finals if they can make it through the West. So like, I I'm with you, I'm I'm on board with that and whatever Lebron needs to do to derive the motivation to do that, I hope

he does it. Um, but we need to get you out of here. Uh. We'll we'll get to some other stuff, like the Katie Draymond stuff maybe early next week. We'll shoot for either Monday or Tuesday. UM. But I hope everyone here has a great weekend. I hope that, uh. I hope that next year I can make it out to Vegas to see you guys all. I'm planning on it at this point. We'll see how it goes obviously in the next year. But Roger, I really appreciate your time, man,

and we'll talk again next week. Thanks everyone, Y