Episode 66: Suns/Bucks Game 4, Trezz Comments, Dame Trade?

of the Lakers free agents. Um depend Like I said, if we have time at the end, Roger, how you do it? On this Friday morning? Man doing great, Man, Another beautiful morning. I'm excited to see Space Jam too tonight, although I feel like half the people saw it already. But I don't remember anything about the first one, to be honest, I just remember Jordan's kind of um his longhand trying to dunk um, what do you think? Do you think I have to see the first one again

to enjoy the second one? What do you think? Not at all? And you know what, I'm so like, so movie critics in general suck because I swear they don't watch movies the way normal people watch movies when I when I go to look at Rotten Tomatoes, now, I look at what the fans think or like the public in their percentage, because that's that's guys like you and me,

that's the way we watch movies. Whereas critics are so you know, they're so used to, you know, liking the smell of their own farts, that they can't they can't just enjoy a movie. Um. But anyway, this is literally a Loony Tunes movie. It is a children's movie, and you've got grown men talking about Lebron's acting and stuff like that. It's just it's just not a topic I'm interested in. Oh no, for sure, they're calling it a lot of propaganda already. I'm like, man, just enjoyed the movie.

Enjoy the movie. It's supposed to be fun. That's what it's for. Supposed to be fun. Oh man, all right. Well, So, as Roger and I were discussing before we started the show, I started with the fifth dollar bet on game one, and I turned that two hundred, and then I turned into two hundred, and then I turned it into four hundred because I hit every single game. Well, I rolled all of it into the Sun's money line and almost got rich, but no, I did not get rich. So

the Milwaukee Bucks one. And you know what, dude, this is. This is the first thing I'm gonna say. As the game was unfolding, even as Phoenix had the lead, I just I knew Milwaukee was gonna come back. And you know, in pickup games, it's about shot results, you know, because they're shortened, right, So a couple of guys get hot, make a couple threes, you lose. But in a forty

eight minute basketball game, it's more about shot quality. Are you getting better shots than the other team, because regardless of what the scoreboard says, usually over forty eight minutes, the team that gets better shots is gonna win because they'll eventually start going in. And even though Phoenix had leads in that game, it was Devin Booker making incredibly tough shots. It had nothing to do with the shot quality.

And then guess what. Down the stretch of the game, Chris Middleton was getting really nice, easy in rhythm pull up fifteen footers and the Sons were clawing tooth and nail to get crazy difficult shots and they weren't going in. And so I wasn't surprised at all that the game ended the way it did. Um, was that kind of the way that you interpreted that as well? Uh? Well, Like when Phoenix went up nine, I thought they kind of had it. I think Cameron Paine had like a

huge three he got to and one on a drive. UM, I really thought they were gonna take it. Chris Paul was struggling all night. He wasn't even shooting because of the way that Milwaukee was defending. But once Devin Booken went out, I think he got his like fifth Bowl or something like that. He went out of the game. I thought Chris Paul would kind of take over, get to his spots, and he just missed, like shots that he should be able to take, should be able to make.

He wasn't taking advantage. And Dean dre Atan man like he has to be better in my opinion, Like that was the game to me. Nine shots, three for nine, no free throws. UM played forty minutes and Milwaukee went small pretty much the whole night. UM, And then again Janna's and fourteen even on a bad night. Middleton, I don't know, I feel like those shots are the shots Milton gets anyway, Um, he gets some he doesn't hit him.

Is he gonna hit him on the road, I'm not sure, but again forty points him and Devin Book had a nice back and forth. I thought that was really fun. Um, they had like a mid range kind of battle. I thought, I thought Phoenix gonna take him. Maam, I thought, Um, I really thought they did. Milton hit tough shots like driving left raising fade away, so I thought he was gonna take it. I really did. But the series is

tied now, Man, this series of time. That's interesting that we had a different feel on that because the Milwaukee comeback just kind of felt inevitable to me. Um, But that's that. That's that's part of the fun of of of watching basketball is two people can watch it and kind of see a different thing. You know, Janice had one of the most dominant defensive performances I've ever seen.

You know what it reminded me of was the All Star Game two years ago, Um, when he had that block on Lebron's one legged fade away and then blocked him at the rim on play where Lebron had him completely beat to the basket. Janice has this ability when he really turns it on defensively where he's frightening and

there's really nothing anybody can do. I mean, the one legged fade away is one of the most indefensible shots in all of basketball, and a six nine guy tried one on on Janice in that All Star Game and got blocked. Like he just is he's He's transcendently good defensively. And you know, it was interesting because he was such a non factor offensively at the end of that game, it was all Middleton, Drew holiday in. Janice had nothing going and eighton got called for a couple of of

kind of jankie fouls early in the game. But the one thing he did well in that game, and in a game that he was generally bad, he defended Janice well down the stretch and forced him into some tough shots. But I have to I have to say, like, and I mean, the people have talked about the block to death,

that was just that. What an incredible performance to to have nothing going offensively and to still have such a massive impact on the game defensively, because literally they can't run a play within fifteen feet of you without you're raising.

It's unbelievable. And I thought Devin Booker made the right play there, Like, that's the correct play to do you come off that little screen action and then Janice is helping on Devin Booker and then he sees that Janice comes over to help and he throws that law I thought pretty perfectly. Janice just gets it at like the apex of it. Um, that was an amazing play. He

was awesome all night. What do you think I thought the Janna is kind of at the five switching everything is really like, I don't think it's a coincidence that Chris Paul is starting to play worse and worse as the Bucks continue to play more small and small. Um like his I think he's scoring Milwaukee is way down from when he was in Phoenix. Um, they're really switching everything. Devin book is hitting tough shots. Um, Where do you think Chris Paul can kind of get better shots here?

Because I feel like he's kind of lost, Like this is a guy who's a generational point guard and he looks absolutely unsure what to do where to go with this? Um? To me, it's eight and has to be better to kind of open things up for Chris Paul. What do you see like for him gets to get better shots in this series. So for first of all, Drew Holiday deserves credit because you know, I told you like early in the series that I didn't really see him as

capable of having much of an offensive impact. He just

got uncharacteristically hot from three in Game three. Other than that, he can't really generate quality shots, and he actually won them that game with there with his defense and honestly, man like, if there's one criticism to throw at Drew, it's just that he needs to shoot less, because if he can take Chris Paul out of the game and and have a smaller offensive role, he's actually going to have a better impact on on Milwaukee's ability to win

the game. So with Chris Paul, here's the thing. This is something I've talked about with you many times in the past, Like this is something I get made fun of for a lot of times because I've I've brought

it up in the past. But physical tools matter when you get into these super physical games, when things get outrageously physical and the refs are swallowing their whistles, you it helps to be Chris Middleton's six ft eight and able to shoot over the top Like this is not it's so I tweeted yesterday that I thought that officiating was going to play a big part in this series moving forward, because Milwaukee is the bigger, stronger team at

least on the perimeter. Aton is huge, Aten's a beast, but outside of DeAndre Ayton, the like, there was a moment in that fourth quarter where I'm looking at the lineup and I'm like, I'm like, that's campaign this. I think Chris Paul was out at this point, but it was like Chris Paul Campaign, Michael Bridges and Cam Johnson, and I'm like, that's a thin, uh parameter core. That's a thin group of guys. And meanwhile, Drew Holidays built like a truck, so is Janice and and they're they're

just They're just a big, big, physical perimeter lineup. And so I it's like, if the refs are gonna let them be really physical at the point of attack with Chris, he's just not gonna get quality shots, you know, Like the Drew Holiday has this uncanny ability to fight over those rolls like that, Like he just sidles up above the screen and just bumps Chris a little bit further out and just gets over the top of it. So

pick and rolls, not freeing up Chris. Even when he gets a little bit of separation on the pick and roll Yannice is right on or not nice. Drew his right on his back, and then Janice is just a freak and drop coverage because he can guard the ball and turn around and block shots at the rim like it's it's unbelievable. I don't if the refs continue to let Drew be that physical at the point of attack. There's nothing Chris Paul can do because he's just not

athletic enough or big enough to get separation. But if he starts getting some calls, which at home he very well might, then that might be enough to get Chris Paul going. Yeah. And Drew's also picking up like full core. He's like having laid his body on him. Um all night. We talked about I think after a game two I forgot which game it was, where like they were just letting um, Chris Paul get the switch way too easy, and now Drew's like fighting over every single time. And

you're right, they're letting them be more physical. Eating is catching it like I think it's like a foot pass where he would like to in the paint, like where he's comfortable. He has a little jump book. I thought he settled a few times, but he has to punish to me those like when they switched through Holiday on Eighten p J. Tucker on eight and like, I think that's where he has to punish him with the offensive

rebounds too. I just don't think you can allow um the Bucks to play this small right, like play honest at the five without the consequences of playing honest at the five and credit to coach Bud like he's really short in that rotation. But you're right, Pat Connaton, Bobby Porters, those are big dudes that Chris Paul is like really trying to attack in isolation. If it's not him, it's

just Devin Booker. What had an amazing night by the way to um what he had like forty I think as well, and they defended him well shots all night long he did. Yeah, yeah, he's coming off those screens, just firing. Um. I thought he got a little tired at the end there, um And I thought Chris Paul would try to take over um little late, a little too late, but Middleton kind of saved the day there. What what do you think about that foul, letting, letting

that foul go. I feel like you haven't get interesting take on that. Yeah, I don't care. So first of all, first of all, like we we can't complain about refs stealing the show and then also complain when they swallow their whistle on purpose so that they don't steal the show. Like who do you want to what do you want to know? Do you want to know if the Sons in the Bucks, you know who's gonna win with all their players or with Devin Booker sitting on the bench

with six fouls? You want to you want the Bucks to beat the Suns with Devin Booker out there, so that you can know who the actual better team is. And I shared this morning, uh at four o'clock when I woke up. If you look at my twitter feed, I shared the the uh, the foul early in the game where Drew Holiday jumped up into him and elbowed

him in the face. And like, don't get me wrong, I don't think it should have been an offensive foul, but it shouldn't have been anything that should have been a no call that And I I haven't gone back to look over the tape, but I remember there being a couple of kind of nit picky fouls that the uh the rebounding foul on on p J. Tucker where he kind of chucked him out of bounds, a couple of things. First of all, as the ref show some describe, the ball didn't go anywhere near them. It had no

impact on the play. Shouldn't have been a call. Second of all, it's game four of the Finals. It's been one of the most physical games I've ever seen, and p J. Tucker's running in to go get the offensive rebound. Let them, let them bump and chuck each other, and

and and and box each other out. It's a physical game like it just it bothered me because of course it was a foul and Drew Holiday and it was just, of course, it was a dumb play from Devin Booker to do that when he knew knew he had five fouls. But independent of all of that, I'm okay with the fact that the guy with the whistle was like, I don't want to take Devin Booker out of Game four

of the NBA Finals when he's got forty points. Like to me that that was an obvious judgment call, and I would hope that every ref in the NBA would have done the same thing, especially since he saw the he saw the guy trailing and the and and had who had the offensive rebound putback. He might very well have been sitting there going like, if they get a stop here, I'm just gonna do late whistle foul on Devin Booker. You know that kind of deal. Yeah, that's kind of how I how I saw it to That

was fine with it. A lot of people. A lot of people would say, like, I guess that is Devin Booker deciding the game by like doing that stupid play, But I like the discretion there, like with contest. Yes, if that was another player, that probably is a foul, but that's Devin Booker. Like there's a reason why that that play wasn't called. So so I'm fine with that, um not being a foul, I guess um, but but we'll see. He he had like two bad files to be honest, going late there. Um, he could have filed

out twice. But I'm glad they kind of let that go, let the game kind of finish. You're right, Janice was trailing to play anyway. Um, that's where like it's so weird the game is so physical, but yet like those eight and foules were really confusing to me. It felt like Janice was just driving into his chest and he got like two of those that he kind of passed

out of. So it's it's funny. Do you do you think like that will switch when they go to Phoenix, Like they'll kind of Phoenix will get a little bit more physical. I'm kind of interesting how they react to this because it feels like Milwaukee's figuring stuff out. Um. That's why I thought last night was so important. Like the longer the series goes, it's kind of edging towards

Milwaukee here, who's like really figuring out what they're doing. Um. As soon as Bud kind of stops the jefteen minutes, UM, I feel like they can they can get even better. But what do you think going into Phoenix for game game five? So I tweeted this out two days ago.

I believe or nose yesterday. But like I, I genuinely think officiating is going to be the biggest, uh, one of the biggest swing factors moving forward, because, like you said, if Janice is gonna lower his shoulder and try to run DeAndre and over and get get get two free throws out of it while at the while on the other end, Drew Holiday and Pat Connaughton and p J. Tucker are allowed to have their hands on ball handlers, which, for the record, I don't think is uh any sort

of unfair type of of angle from the refs. I think it's just home court, home court reffing. My guess is that Phoenix is gonna get more calls in Game five and in Game seven because refs have a tendency to subconsciously play to the home crowd. That's it's There's been studies done on that actually, and it's a subconscious thing. Now. As far as the long term wear and tear, Chris Paul had two days off before that game. He didn't He didn't have trouble scoring on Drew Holiday because of

the uh like like a progressive fatigue. That's not what it was. What it was is home court whistle, letting Drew be more physical. Also, as something that you and I have talked about at length, any sort of repetitive

action that advance is an advantage to the defender. That to me is one of the main reasons why players are UH their efficiency tanks at the end of series and at the end of games, because if I'm guarding you, you might get me with moves early in the game that aren't going to get as much separation late in the game, And the same thing goes as the series progresses.

At this point, Drew Holiday knows all of Chris Paul's little ticks and little trends and little tendencies at this point because he's been playing with him for two hundred minutes, you know, So I think as the series progress is it's gonna be harder for Chris Paul to get clean looks unless he starts getting calls to where Drew Holiday has to give him more space and can't use his hands as much. That could be the thing that kind

of that kind of swings it. But again, Phoenix is at home in game five, They're probably gonna get a little bit more beneficial whistle. All I gotta do is win that game, and then there you go back to Milwaukee, where you know, I think we can safely say that the Phoenix appears to be the slightly better team, just slightly, because they won handily at home and then they lost

a really close game in game four. You know, it's like clear, Phoenix win, Clear, Phoenix win Clear, Milwaukee win Rock Fight where Milwaukee barely won, so they got home court advantage. A couple of things go their way, I would give them, I would make them very slight favorites at this point, which is what Vegas has. I think they have the Bucks that plus plus one or something like that, so a very slight underdog right now. Yeah, I was listening to like the Little I agree with you.

I still have you next win this series. But they need better shot quality, Like I was listening to the low Post. They said six percent of their shots came from the mid range, and I think like fifteen or came from three. It's like nothing at the rim. So Milwaukee has pretty much shrunk the floor to where everything is isolation and everything is a mid range kind of contested pull up. I don't think you're beating the Bucks that way. Like I feel like that they have to

get their ball. Remember they were such like a beautiful ball movement team. The gal gets into eid and kicks out corner corner and corner bridge corner three for Bridges, corner three for jay Crowder. All that's gone, like all the three point all that like beautiful wide open shots are all gone. Maybe that's part of it, Like, like you said, you kind of realized people's plays as the

series goes on. Um they run that double kind of drag screen a lot, and it feels like that's been kind of schemed out, like they understand exactly how they want to defend it. And again it's like with the Honest at the five, all those guys are a lot more mobile. Chris Paul can't just pick on brook Lopez anymore, which I think both of us thought was clear from game one, so like, but now doing this in game three,

game four, I thought that was pretty clear. But that's the main thing to me is like, are do where do Sphenis get better shots? Because there's no Chris Paul Camp. I mean, he's gonna beat pack content body Bobby Portis a few times, but like that, those aren't good shots to me and Brookly I mean, sorry, Devin Booker, those are tough shots as well. I'm just wondering, like their shot selection has to be better. I trust Monty to kind of figure that out, but to me, it's on

eight and getting eight and being a force inside. They have to get stuff at the rim um, they're like Chris Milton as well doesn't get to the basket, but that's kind of his game. Phoenix is built around this rim attack that can like get out to their shooters. I don't know, I'm wondering where they go here to get better shots. With the way Milwaukee is defending, you

have to draw that third defender in right. That's the problem is like you're you know, Drew Holiday is so effective on Chris Paul right now that they really don't have to bring any help. And Chris Paul's has to call the screen every time to get any separation. So as long as they can play two on two in that pick and roll, as long as they can play two on two in that pick and roll, the Milwaukee doesn't have to send those three other defenders too far

into the paint. So Phoenix isn't getting any quality shots out of Chris Paul and then Devin Booker. It's all isolations. So like even when, uh, even when Devin Booker gets a good matchup, like you know, he got a couple of shots or a couple of possessions, it gets against Pat Connaughton and it's like, Okay, this is the weak link right, So you got you got Drew and p J and Janice and and Chris Middleton off the ball

and Devin Bookers on an island with Pat Connatton. Well, Devin Booker is not getting good enough shots on Pat Conatton that they need to send help. Pat Connaton is doing a good job of making him shoot over the top. And if you're Milwaukee, you're not gonna overreact to Devin Booker making those crazy tough turnarounds. If he beats you like dad, he beats you like that. And guess what last or two nights ago wasn't enough. And so that

that's kind of the thing. It's like in order to like this is the This is the lebron and a d factor that is so important when it gets into these types of off series, come come, hell or high water, they're gonna draw other defenders because if you let them on an island, it's not crazy fadeaways, it's physical dominance at the rim. It's like with the Honest, if you put your Honest on an island with these guys, he's

probably gonna score. So you have to send extra defenders, which is a cascading effect that leads to better shot quality. Like I said earlier, if your team is getting better shot quality, probably unless you have some crazy all time Kobe ask forty eight point blow up, the team that's getting the better shots is going to eventually get hot and pull away and and and that's and that's what

happened with Milwaukee. So I don't know, Like like Bookers not getting good enough shots to draw double teams right now, and Chris Paul literally can't get separation from Drew Holiday, So honest to god, I don't know what you do. I don't know what you do except for hope that the whistle gets a little tighter to where your guards are getting better shot because the defenders have to give more space and be less handsy. Yeah, well, to me, all roads lead back to eight and like he's the guy.

He's a seven foot dude playing against a team that's going night. Yeah, Brook Lopez had eighteen minutes, which mean the rest of that is just all small, right, They have no other backup center that's really a sizeable center. It's all you, honest, and they're pretty much switching. So you, honest is ending up on Chris Paul ending up to have a book or a bunch of possessions here, Aidan has to dominate like he can't. He he's not a great passer, but he has to make better reads to Um,

they're kind of digging in and coming out. Um, they're forcing mckel bridges to take dribble in mid range. Two is Jake Crowd was taking contested threes. He got a few foul calls which I thought weren't really foul when p J. Tucker kind of contested him at three point line when he falls down. Um, we're very familiar with that. But but yeah, but I feel like Aten kind of he's the key here. No free throws three for nine

That just can't happen in forty minutes for me. For m he's too big, too physical, too skilled to like allow him to just push him off the block that easy. P J Tuck and Drew Holiday a strong dude, but still you gotta be able to get to your spot, jump hook whatever. He was like diving on on lane dunking in Phoenix like Game one A game two he was getting like roaring dunks like Crowd, kind of uplifting stuff and right now nothing at the basket. Everything's a

mid reason, little jump hook everything. Stuff that they'll live with so all roads lead back to him. To me, if Chris Paul can't get separation room Drew Devin Booker taking these type of shots, it's it's Aton who has to be the third best player here. That's really interesting. Rog And and I think I agree with you because you know, he got physically dominated a little bit in that game, which is unusual. He's been better, He's been better in this postseason than he's ever been in his

time in Phoenix. And he had a little moment where he got a block on Bobby Portis where he kind of got emotional and kind of screamed at the station, like you could tell it's in there that he knows that he needs to be better. He just needs to do it. There's there was a clip h during the game of Monty Williams in the in the huddle basically telling that basically saying like, you're playing hard right now,

but you're not playing hard enough. And and and because the truth was as Milwaukee was playing harder and more physical in that game. Then after the game, like god, I can't remember what the exact line was, but Monty said again in the postgame locker of something to the effect of like what you want is there for the taking, but you're gonna have to play harder than you've ever

played in your life. Like I think you said the quote was what you want is on the other side of hard, meaning like what you think you gotta do, there's a whole other level to where you need to go. So it's clear that Monty is really hammering home with them the fact that hey, you're smaller, you're thinner, so you're gonna have to make up for that with effort because if you match effort with them, they're going to physically dominate you because Milwaukee's bigger and stronger and so

on and so forth. And that'll be the interesting thing moving forward. And and to your point, Aton is where that starts. Eighton being more physically dominant will trickle down the red to the roster and compensate for some of their thinness on the perimeter. Like I I don't know, man like, like Michail Bridges wasn't very good in that game, and I didn't think he did a very good job on Chris and and honestly, man, some of the shots

Chris missed in that game were really good looks. There were got He had like two or three wide open fifteen footers at the start of the fourth quarter when Phoenix was up like nine, where I was like, man like, if he keeps getting that shot, like it's gonna start going in and and and so everybody just has to be better in the same way that Drew Holiday is trending towards being more physically imposing on Chris, those Phoenix swings have to trend towards being more physically imposing on

on on Chris Middleton and and and have that kind of kind of swing back into their favor at the end of the series. Do you have any other thoughts on this series before we move on, Yeah, just a couple of doing quick things. On eight and he had like seventeen rebounds, but one was offensive, So to me, like, that's like that number looks awesome. And against seventeen rebounds and seventy rebounds, just when you get one offensive rebound, it's they're showing your force on the boards. To me,

everything there's a defensive rebound. And mckill bridges, I thought Milwaukee found something. Um they were just like they were starting Chris in the corner. Then he would come up off of two screens to a dribble handoff with Your Honest, and that basically puts at in this like no man's land where now he has to cover you know, the Honest rolling and Middleton coming off this screen, and it also takes away with mckill Bridges is really good at right.

Mckill bridges a super long, crazy wingstand, but he's crazy skinny. So him going through two screens, he's already like behind the play. He's still on like the first screen, and him and Aiden keep having this miscommunication. I feel like that's something Phoenix really has to clean up because they went to that down the stretch. Every single time they stopped this just Your Honest at the top trying to attack, going through Aten's chest, they went dribble hand off. Chris Milton,

he got to his spots. Whether he makes him in Phoenix, I'm not sure, but those are great shots for him. Um. I wondered if they stop trapping and all that, But I thought that was really interesting to see Milwaukee figure that out, like to how to get him going Credit to coach, but I guess they're forgetting him going to get him going there. Um, that's kind of a pet play. I saw them run that. I think they really figured out. So I'm interested to see how they defend that as

well going forward. Um, how they if they just live with Chris Milton taking those jumpers because he's not getting to the rim. Still he got eight free throws, right, yeah, but like it's six of those I think for like at the end of the game or something. So still he's not getting to the rim. Um, he's not getting to the line, he's not playmaking. So it's all still on these jumpers that as you talked about. Since he's a jumptioning guy, he has the it can. He has

a tendency to have up and down games. So I mean, if they he was up, and I'm interesting to see if they adjust you. That's really interesting, rog And you know, uh, generally speaking, it's kind of like a common it's common knowledge in the basketball community that larger players that are

taller and lankier have trouble fighting through screens. That's like a players that are smaller with a small center of gravity do much better, Like a p. J. Tucker is going to be better chasing guys off of screens than Lebron because Lebron is a little bit too upright, and that's a common way that teams attack Lebron is trying to get him to run through screens. He's just too big. It's it's too easy for him to get caught on it. We talked earlier about Drew holiday in his ability to

run over screens. Um, when I played in college, most of the best UH defenders that I knew that played off of screens that chased shooters around or short stocky guys, they just they have this uncanny ability to kind of navigate those crazy screens. And you're right, like mcaial Bridges got caught way too much on those screens and gave Chris Middleton way too much space and let him get way too comfortable. That was a good call out on your part. Um anything else, I think that's it. Yeah,

interested to see game five? All right, we got fourteen minutes, so let's talk Dame. So this this is all kind of new and fresh to me. In terms of the the the the imminent nature of the trade request. Everyone seemed to just assume it was going to happen. I was kind of more like Portland's has they got him under contract for three more years? Uh? They just hired a new coach, they'll probably make a trade on the periphery.

I I didn't necessarily think it was gonna happen, But at the end of the day, like Dame has built up so much good equity with that franchise as someone who has year in and year out given them his best and been such a great leader that if he actually asks for a trade, I believe that Portland's would capitulate to his demand just out of good business, Like, ah like, uh, you know what, Dame, if this is what you want, will do this for you kind of I I and and so it seems like we're headed

that way. Um, So what was your initial initial, uh like kind of impression on what you saw today? Yeah, I kind of fight back and forth because we're in a new NBA where like stars kind of do pick their their team now, right Like James Harden said, I want to go to the nets and he ended up there a d with the Lakers. You can go down the line a bunch of stars that kind of pick their team. But also Dame is under contract for four more years, so this season plus three more, that's a

ton that's a ton of leverage for the team. Um, and I feel like teams would throw a bunch of whatever assets or whatever picks for Dame. So it's really interesting on the teams that have kind of uh it hasn't been official, but it's like the Lakers, Warriors, and Nicks, which, um, I feel like one of those two isn't like the other. But it's but I have no idea, Like it's so weird. Dame has kind of build his brand kind of on this, like I don't want to go anywhere. I want to

build it myself. Um So it's just a switch. Maybe the like, uh, he got the backlash for the bill up stuff and all that stuff, so and the team got kind of some backlash for that. Maybe that's so that's one of the reasons that he can kind of push out. I have no idea, but him being with team, You'll say, I don't know if that helps a little bit. He's away from the situation, he can kind of request his trade and uh, it feels a little different than

being you know, on the team having to deal with that. So, so where do you think what do you think this goes from here? Do you think like it eventually becomes like a full on trade request official. Yeah, I would assume we're trending in that direction just based on the intel.

I think it makes sense for Dame. You know, Dane, this is why it's always better to let other people do the talking for you when it comes to this type of stuff like uh, as a star in the n b A if it's better for you to plan your exit behind the scenes than to do what Dame did, which is basically outwardly say in trash talk to the Clippers, I'm mr loyal, stay in one place. I don't want to take the easy road. Blah blah blah blah blah.

You know, well, well, dude, had you let us say that on your behalf, then it would have been fine for you to leave. But now you've realized that your loyalty was you know, kind of foolish in the sense that you were self sabotaging because you were a top ten NBA player who routinely was getting knocked out early in playoffs because your team wasn't very good, and there's

no shame in wanting to leave. That. Loyalty to franchises is stupid in my opinion, because at this at those fans are the first ones to turn on you when when things aren't going well. You know, that's just the

nature of of the way this stuff is. And so to be honest, like, you know, like we would have been on your side no matter what, had you just kind of let it progress naturally, and unfortunately now you're gonna have I wouldn't be surprised with how reckless Dame and c J have talked about this in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if Patrick Beverley or or lou Williams are one of those guys, uh came out and and and tweeted something like like you're taking the easy road,

you know, something like that. But you know, uh, when it comes to the destination, there are you see you hear all these different teams that could thrown out, and they have all these different cap issues that would have to Like for the Lakers, as we've talked frequently, like if they do a sen in trade, which is what they would have to do to get Dame. If they do assign in trade, they get hardcapped, and under the current hardcap situation, it would probably force them to lose

a bunch of other free agents there. They would lose guys currently on the roster, so it really kind of it really kind of janks things up. So and then just in general, I think other teams have better trade packages, and I don't think Portland's gonna sit there and go, we'll take talent Horton Tucker and Kyle Kuzma just because we want to do Dame a favor, you know what I mean. So I would look more to teams like the Knicks, teams like Golden State, although I don't like

the fit there. I don't think it makes a ton of sense to have Dame and Steph play together. But like I would look to the teams that have assets, just because I think at the end of the day, Portland's gonna they'll say, hey, Dame, we're gonna help you, but we gotta get we gotta get a fair return, you know what I mean. You're top seven, top eight player, yeah for sure. But to me, these these kind of things always become ugly anyway, right, These trade because are

never clean. It's never like a oh, we had our time together and uh it's over now, and both teams, you know, uh seeing by to each other. It never happens like that. It's always ugly. It's always ugly breakup. You got to ask questions on both sides what happened, and you know that. I feel like that's how this goes.

But I'm like, we're in the new league. To me, if Dames says I want to go to the the Lakers, like and only the Lakers, like, that's kind of what happens here, Like, I don't know, that's just the league. I feel like we're in leverage because he has three years that you usually leverage, Like I want to go to l A if you trade for me, I will go to l A as soon as my contracts gone. Well, guess what, that doesn't matter when I've got you for three seasons. You know what I mean? That is fair.

But I guess like my only counterpoint is Dame is on a super max He's not on like a regular max contract. He's making the super max money, which I think is like of your cap or whatever that is. So that pretty much like puts you down to like you either are a title contender, right or like a team that's close, Like I don't think a bad team can like I don't think Oklahoma City can go and throw you know, a BA jillion draft picks at Dame because what does that do for them? They're not in

position at all to win for Dame. The Knicks too, I don't understand the Knicks unless, like he just wants to build on a bigger brand, which I think Dame is a pretty big superstar already in this league. But I mean, they're not ready for him. But you're gonna sign and trade Julius Randall for Dame and you have

Dame R J. Barrett? How is that better than Portland's? Like, I that's that's my my question here is like it's either a want to be one of these really good teams that can get for him, and it can that list shortens? It's Philly just again we talked about this last episode. Just Philly want Ben Simmons on a max contract. I don't know, do they want the Warriors package? Do

they want Wiggins? Why isn't like that's where I think this will eventually get to because the list is so small for where like, it doesn't make sense if Dame goes to a worst team like that, that doesn't happen in these situations. Players don't leave for a worst team. It just can't. That's a horrible look on a on a guy that that you just can't have. Stars don't

want that. Stars want this, even if they don't believe it, they want this, Like, Yeah, all I want to do is win, you know, like that has to be the motivation for leaving. So I'm interested to see how this plays out. Yeah, I agree with you, and and you know, it's interesting because like you got to think about I think about it from all the angles, right, because if I'm Portland and I'm giving up Damian Lillard, I'm going

into the rebuild. So unless I'm extremely high on Ben Simmons, I'm gonna go for a package more along the lines of Wiseman or one of the high picks in this draft. And you're right, like, why would Oklahoma City get involved if that's gonna involve me getting Dame Lillard when I don't have the pieces around him to help him compete. And then there was that big report that came out in early July. Jason Maples tweeted tweeted it out today, so if you want to go find it, you can

find it in uh UM in his feed. But there's some guy that claimed to have intel that said that Dame wanted to go to New York and he wanted to bring Kawhile entward with him. And this is when we knew coau I was hurt. And it's like, okay uh and and this guy was was of ahead of the ahead of the Clippers news, and he knew that

there was some unrest between the Clippers and Kauai. But anyway, it's like, if I'm dame, It's like, why would I want to go to the Knicks when if I if all we know about Kauai tells us that he's probably not gonna play next year because Kauai doesn't mess around his body. He's gonna take at least a year to get healthy. He's certainly not going to come back two thirds of the way through the season to try to go to to try to help the Clippers go on

a run when he's not feeling good. So like, and I'm dame, I'm already getting older and I'm a small guard. Why would I go to New York to flounder for a year while I wait for Kauai to maybe come back? And God knows, Kauai quite doesn't keep anybody in the loop. He doesn't tell you what's going on with his body. Or his knee and and dude, like I Kauai such a weird guy. I wouldn't be surprised if we never see him again. I literally wouldn't be surprised if he

was like, I'm retiring. Both my knees are messed up. I'm stick and tired of trying to get my knees work, and when they both keep giving up on me, so yeah, I'm retiring. I wouldn't be surprised. Like it's just that seems so when I her dad and tell him like that doesn't make sense to me. So my guess is it's gonna be so either Philly or Golden State. Um, but I don't if I'm if I'm Portland's, I'm like, I don't want Ben Simmons, Like what am I gonna

do with Ben Simmons? You know? But yeah, it's interesting. I guess Simmons could I guess sells seats. I guess and that, But I mean like Portland would sell out anyway. They're kind of like a one one sport kind of sitting there, but like I have no idea, Like I feel like Dame is gonna put out the teams, like we've seen how this kind of story goes. He puts out the teams and then he kind of there's like three teams on that list, and one of them doesn't

make sense. It's just how it goes to kind of throw it off, and then he gets to the team he wants, like that's the new league. I think this will happen with Bradley Beal eventually to like this's just how the cycle of the universe works. I want to ask you about the Kauai so because I think that's fascinating. Um, the news that's coming out Skip Bayliss isn't really a

source of you know, high regard to me. But I like when I'm just watched when I'm hearing like the team didn't even know that he had like the surgery. I think that stuff is just weird. That stuff is strange, Like to me, that can't even be possible, Kenny, Like, how can the team not know that he was having surgery? Like that's christ been there two years. It's not like he's a stranger to these people, you know what I mean? Like,

that's that kind of stuff. When those stuff come out is really strange to me that we can release that kind of information like that kind of intail, you know, like you don't is that strange to you as well? Or like it's it's strange, but it reminds me of like a spurned X, like you know, like, uh, it's it's it's a common thing that you'll see what you're dating.

It's like the the the girl who whose ex boyfriend cheated on her a bunch of times, Like she tends to have trust issues, right, Like she just trust issues, and she's the one that's not going to let you go have a guy's night because she's gonna think you're off, you know, you know, doing god knows what well. I

think that's what happened with Kauai. I think I think he legitimately had a serious issue with the medical staff with the spurs where he where he felt like he was wronged, where he was like, my knees screwed up, and these guys keep telling me my knees fine, and they keep and now you've got teammates going to the press and saying like that he's not playing when my knees hurt, you know. And I think that that screwed up his head a little bit to where he doesn't

trust these teams medical staffs at all. And so I think as soon as he had the knee injury and the first medical opinion from the team doctors said you're fine, and then he went and got his second opinion, and as soon as the second opinion apparently revealed a partially torn a c L, I think he immediately was like, screw those guys with the Clippers like that. I can't trust him, you know, because he's gotta trust he's got

trust issues. And I think from there you combine that with Kauai's general private mentality and and there's there was all sorts of intel that he had some off the book stuff with the Clippers anyway, where he's kind of like a kind of a guy who likes to flex his muscles and do his own thing and live in San Diego while playing for the Clippers and all this other stuff that I'm not I'm not surprised by that

at all. Um, really quickly before you get out of here. Um, So I'm just interested to hear your thoughts on this, and and I'll really quickly lay mine out. You know. Pat Riley used to talk about this concept called the disease of more, which is the idea that you could win a title with a bunch of guys playing unselfishly. But then you guys get selfish as things progress, because they start to care more about self goals instead of

team goals, and then things go south. And you know, the famous example everybody talks about is like two thousand four, Kobe is like, you know, they were weren't doing all this winning with Shack, but then by then he gets a little selfish. He's, you know, he allegedly shot them out of the series with the pistons and so on and so forth. That's just one example, but that's what you hear. But this is so unusual because this is the first time I can remember where the disease of

more is impacting the guys who didn't even win the title. Okay, like all the guys who won the title with the Lakers, you know, with like guys like Alex Cruzo, guys like Lebron, guys like Anthony Davis, all these guys, they're all kind

of still chugging along with the unselfish nature of it all. Meanwhile, all these new guys who weren't on the championship team, guys like Dennis Shrewder, guys like Montrez Harrold are coming out with all these comments and they're acting like they care more about their minutes and their role on the team, whether they're starting or They're like they care more about this stuff than than the guys who were won the title.

And I've never seen anything like it. I I tend to think that those guys need to be dispensed with because I think it hurts the culture. That's just my opinion. But I wanted to hear your two cents on it before we get you out here. Yeah, you eat throughout Shrewder, Harold, even Andre Drummond right with his comments. Um, we're really interesting about you know, wanting if he would have got more minutes and all that these guys are in their mid twenties. Like we keep comparing it to the Lakers.

You know, those dude had a bunch of dudes in the mid mid thirties, kind of Danny Green, Dwight Howard, Um, all those dudes, all those role players, really older guys who are kind of fit, who understand their role in this league. Danny Green isn't gonna ask for isn't gonna try to run ball screens. You know, he's not gonna be someone who isn't. Ntres Harroll is still trying to figure out Kenny be a number one or number two options you know in this league? Like what is he?

You know, like an Dennis Shrewder I think is still trying to figure that out too. Is he a starting point guard? He wants to be paid like one, so he has to play like one. He has to put the numbers like one. UM, and he knows he didn't do that, And again you started getting these excuses kind of UM trickling down. And that's why to me, that team is still special. It's why it's special because that's rare. You don't get teams that click like this. Also, like

I don't remember what CALVS team was, UM. I think Shannon Fry talked about it a lot that that team was super close, and I remember there was sixteen team maybe that won the title, but he he talked about how close and how everyone went out together and stuff like that. And I'm not saying you have to do that, um to win, but I'm like, that's part of why Lebron does these mini camps in Las Vegas, why he does the Dinners on the road try to like build

that kind of camaraderie. And I don't know if the factors with COVID and all that stuff kind of impacted it, but yeah, you can tell these dudes in their mid twenties feel like they didn't get the fair shake on a lot of stuff. Um, and again, I feel like the talent would have went out. But yeah, you're right. It's interesting to hear all these things come out on a team that lost, you know, the players that lost, the players that weren't on the team from the title team.

You don't hear k CP tong like this. You don't hear Kyle Kuzum a little bit. I guess um, Kyle Kuzuma came out with a little bit. But yeah, you're right. Is from the mid twenty dudes who were who felt like they were going to kind of break open here and that didn't really happen. Which individual breakout seasons don't happen on contenders like this when they're deep. I think this is a product of depth. And I'll do this, say this really quick, and then I'll get you out

of here. You know, my team at Arizona Christian University, the last school I played, kind of had a similar thing. The year before, Uh, they finished second in their conference and they made it to the national tournament. And everybody came back and they had famously good chemistry, like to them, like they talked about how great that year was and and and how close all the guys were and how everybody bought into their roles and how and how great

they were. Well, everybody came back, and they added me, and they added this guy named Matais who's a really good center who transferred from another school. And we added this guard named Rodney from Texas who was a really

good two way defensive guard. And so all of a sudden, there eight man rotation became an eleven man rotation, and all of a sudden, like you know, I took the starting spot of the guy who played the year before, and all of a sudden, we had guys that are nine, ten, eleven in the rotation that on any given night could have a d NP coaches decision. And it kind of became this deal where there was just a different attitude

around the team because suddenly there were competing agendas. There were well, maybe this guy should play more, well, this guy's this guy is is taking away from my role or whatever it was, and it kind of it kind of we we were we were a better team than the previous year's team, but a lot of the guys talked about how the chemistry wasn't as good and that

the guys weren't as close. And I think that's kind of like a similar version of what happened with the Lakers, is like it's a better team on paper, and injuries are what derailed them. Let's not confuse that. But but the the energy around the team was a little bit different this year because there were guys that had individual goals separate from the team, and I do think that that's something that they shouldn't want totor moving forward. Yeah,

it's why repeating it's hard. It's why three piece are hard. Um, things happen, you know, you get tired of people. Just it's just how life kind of works. Um. I always think about like that Warriors team, and that team was running through teams like that, that team was actolutely destroyer world, and it's still just could not keep together for more than three years. Like that's just how it happened. Things

broke one way, broke another way. People said some things like it's just that's how it works, So I feel like this team had a chance. I love the new blood. I think the idea was right. Throwing a new blood into um into the team, I think was the right decision. I think that's what they will kind of go with this year as well. I just didn't work out, and sometimes it happens that way. But you're right at it's injuries is the reason why it never really got the chance.

I think winning kind of solves a lot of this stuff, right Like, I feel like when you lose, this stuff kind of festers out even more. If the Lakers got to the Western Conference finals, I don't think I see Montrose Harold talking about, you know, there's no such thing as uh, what do you say, matchups? That there's no such thing as there's no such thing as matchups. You're yeah, yeah,

you're right, Tress. There's no such thing as matchups, like like like the matchups that are literally determining the championship right now exactly, or Dennis Shooter, you know, coming out with you know, talking about his contract and stuff like. I don't think those stuff happened on a team that wins you know, Western Conference Finals. I don't think you'll see this summer, like, I don't think you'll see mckel bridges be like, I should have got more shots. Honestly,

we would have one in four or five. Like, no, that's not going to happen. Like you know, even though he's a young guy probably trying to make a name in his league, he gets it there are in the finals. What are you talking about? Like if he said stuff like that when it makes sense, so that's kind of comparison that would make their yep. I agree with you, all right, brother, let's get you to work. We actually went five minutes long, so that that's my fault. But

let's we got a game on Saturday. My guests as will probably end up doing the podcast on Monday, just because Sundays they're always crazy. But thank you all for listening in. I will be posting the podcast shortly. Also, for those of you who have Apple, for whatever reason, episode sixty five just didn't get updated to Apple and and went everywhere else. I have no idea why. I'm working with Apple support trying to figure it out. If you haven't heard episode sixty five, that one's on. It'll

be on Spotify or Google Podcasts or anywhere else. And then hopefully it will be on Apple Podcast soon and then I'll upload this one today and hopefully, if Apple has their stuff together, will be in good shape, and I'll tweet out the links once they're all active. All right, everybody, have a good weekend and we will see you later. Appreciate ever