Episode 65: Bucks/Suns Game 3, Team USA, Ben Simmons

until just now. So we got a lot of stuff we're gonna talk about today. UM, but we're gonna start by talking about the Game three of the NBA Finals on Sunday. But first, Rog, how are you doing on this morning? How's your weekend? Was great? Yeah, I'm doing good. It's weird to like try to transition back to video, Like I know the podcast listeners, Um, they don't see

the video, but just for us. So I used to doing spaces and now like we're on video now, so it's like a it's like a funny adjustment back to being on camera. Um, you have to look somewhat kind of presentable when you come up here. You can just you can just wally onto the spaces on Twitter. Um. So it's fun to be back, though. Yeah, exactly the spaces allowed us to slum it a little bit, that

is what that is for sure. But uh, don't worry after this offseason, we will return to doing mostly spaces um in our postgame shows during hopefully much much more positive and good luck oriented Lakers season next year. Anyway, So we're gonna start by talking about Game three on Sunday. I continue again, I'm not always right. Everyone's wrong a lot of the time, including myself. I'm going to brag a lot in this series because I've been right so far.

I've predicted every single outcome in every single game so far. Um. There's been a lot of talk about the Bucks you know, kind of season control of this series and showing some you know, uh problems in in in Phoenix's design that they're able to physically exploit. And while I do think that that is the reason why they were able to win in that particular game, I think this is just textbook NBA playoff series in a nutshell. I've seen this

so many times over the years. You know, the uh team USA which we're gonna talk about later, is such a great example of the difference in motivational advantage. You know, you win basketball games by doing all of these things, these little things, not just scoring the basketball, and you know, if you don't have people that are willing to do those little things, you can lose games two teams with

less talent. And and similar to obviously that with with this FEBA thing, it's a much bigger talent gap and a much bigger issue. But when it comes to this playoffs series, you've got the better team, which is Phoenix, who's up to games to none going into Milwaukee, playing against a desperate team, So they are more willing to do those little things. They're more willing to be more physical, to be more aggressive, to feed off of the energy

of the crowd. And so then all of a sudden, this gap manifests in their effort, and all of a sudden, a team that pretty much got handled in the first two games wins by twenty uh So, my impression, you know, from the over the top kind of macro sense, is just that this was a textbook progression of a playoff series.

Did you think it was something bigger than that? Or did you just think it was kind of the thing I'm talking about, so like we both like to tie it back until it happens on the court to write like all that playing harder and stuff that that's all true, and I think it has a dominant effect as well. We always talk about how the more physical team gets the calls, or gets or doesn't get the call, whatever

way you want to look at it. I really thought Deandrean's um fourth foul kind of change the whole game, in my opinion, was back and forth. Phoenix was coming back a little bit. He picked up his fourth foul with ten twenty five left to go in the third. I don't believe if he played the third quarter and then the Bucks just ran the score up. And I

think that really has accumulative effect. Allowed the Bucks to go small without the consequence of going small on the other end, so allowed them to play the honest at the five, not worrying after not worrying about a rim roller, not worrying about offensive rebounds. Kaminski got destroyed in his minutes. I didn't I didn't really understand those minutes at all. Um he was like a minus fourteen in five minutes. Which shouldn't even be possible. But yeah, like and again

all that stuff you said, it's true. The home crowd really put them on their back. Janice had a legendary another legendary performance. His numbers in these series is absolutely insane. They have no one to guard him, and I don't think that was ever true that. I don't think they ever had someone to guard him, but without eight on the floor, that really shows. So I think you're right.

All that playing hard and stuff is true. I just think like that the game changed to me when Aint picked up his fourth foul and Monty decided, I don't know, is different philosophies on that. I thought that's a little bit of over reaction to just not play him because of who backs him up, Like you're you're gonna lose anyway. You know you'll lose if you play with Kaminsky. I

would have just took the chance on me. But that's why I kind of saw, did you see anything else on the floor that that you thought really impacted game? Or just play tiny? Like but like if you can't, you know, they played Kaminsky because their their whole you know, structure is built around this, like four out one in concept and except with a big and it's like, you know, if if you're gonna get boat raced with Kaminski at the five, you might as well put Crowder at the

five and just put all your wings out there. And you know, maybe just by you can jank up the game a little bit and and uh and win that way. But I'm with you, like, you know, overreacting to foul trouble is one of the stupidest things in the world. It makes way more sense to do it in the college game when egos are more in favor of the referees. Like in college, like a ref's not gonna think twice about fouling a dude out of a game if he

thinks he sees a foul. But in a pros you know, there's a little bit more of a discretionary thing going on with the refs where they'll look at a guy like DeAndre Etan with four fouls and be a little bit more lenient. And you know, eighton can go up to the refs and be like, hey, you know, I'm just gonna staying here with my arms up. I'm not gonna be reaching at all, you know, blah blah blah, blah, and he might get the benefit of the doubt on a lot of those types of calls. So I'm with you.

I think that's always a big strategic flaw. You know. I thought this game was super interesting because it kind of was it was it was breaking down like a typical Game three, where you know, Milwaukee was playing with a lot more physical energy, a lot of their baskets early in the game where we're around the basket, offensive rebounds, you know, janice and pick and roll catching and finishing

around the rim. But what kept Phoenix in control because they were up thirty six to thirty at one point, was Chris Paul was still just in this ridiculous mid range rhythm where he was making everything he was taking in that fifteen to twenty two feet range even when it was contested. And then you had DeAndre Ayton just destroying Milwaukee on both ends of the floor, like he's such a problem for them, And I think it's the

most interesting subplot of this series. I tweeted these stats out yesterday, but one of the big reasons, one of the one of the big reasons why the Bucks were able to swing the Hawks series in the net series, even though they trailed was uh by going to Jannis at the five. In lineups with with Janice at the five. Against those two teams, they were plus seventeen points per one hundred possessions against Brooklyn and plus twenty nine points

per one hundred possessions against Atlanta. But in this matchup, because of eighton in their inability to guard him, there minus nine point five points per one hundred possessions with Jannis at the five. There was a sequence right at the first TV time out they took Burke Lopez out, put your Honis at the five eight and immediately burned them on a little hook shot on a switch over

I think it was over Connaughton. And then the very next possession he has a deep seal on Drew Holiday just turns and lays it into the basket, and then the next possession he got an offensive rebound, and then Bud immediately put Bobby portison. So that that was that was carrying over through that first stretch of the game on Sunday, and then, like you said, after after Aidan got in foul trouble, those lineups started to have more success.

But everything was going Phoenix's way because of how dominant Aton was, and because of how dominant Chris Paul was, and then Milwaukee just completely took over in the middle of the second quarter, and honestly, you know who was fantastic was Drew Holiday in that stretch. Unbelievable defensively. And then Drew Holiday had kind of like a uncharacteristically great game as a passer, which I think is one of his limitations as a guard compared to some of his peers,

but like, he was unbelievable passing the basketball. In that second quarter. He had a sequence where the Sons were down five after a campaign and one, it was forty five, and after the and one, Chris Middleton takes a terrible pull up twenty two ft or and it leads to a two on one fast break, and Pat Connatson blows up the two on one fast break. Drew Holiday pushes it in transition and makes a really nice, like falling out of bounds bounced pass into the corner to p J.

Tucker nails of three. Then Drew Holiday blocked Devin Booker underneath the basket, and then that's when they had that crazy fast break where he through the behind the back pass and dropped it off to Bobby Porters for dunk. That was literally a seven point turnaround, and it completely changed the game and went from Phoenix being right there to all of a sudden, you're down twelve, and it was just it was kind of like a like a like a wave of energy that just Phoenix couldn't really match,

if that makes sense. No, for sure, And we always talked about like the home and road splits for like Drew Holiday and Chris Middleton's shooting. Like Drew Holiday hit five threes last night, five for ten from three. I think those are shots that like the Sons lived with him still taking, like that he hit a bunch of like step back kind of threes, but these shots I feel like they win with if he has if he takes those shots to defense kind of wins. So like,

I feel like it's tough. I don't know what really to take from Milwaukee's offense other than like y honest scoring forty. I think they'll live with that, Like you obviously want to try to stop him, but like I feel like you can still win with the honest uh scoring forty, Chris Milton six with fourteen, Like they're still kind of shutting him down. I thought the biggest key in my opinion, was but kind of limiting brook Lopez minutes once eight and went out with foul trouble. He

really didn't play brook Lopez. It was mostly just be honest at the five full time switching everything. We saw a lot a lot of you honest on Chris Paul on Devin Booker, and he was really able to impact them. Chris Paul still hit a bunch of tough shots. He had like a one left to right crossover fade away over Yannice Um. And I think Devin Booker will play

better as well. Devin Booker was what three for uh three from fourteen in that game, one for seven from three, Like he's been kind of hot and cold a little bit lately, right, I feel like he's he's had big scoring games and he has like really tough shooting nights. I think that's where the Phoenix kind of push her head on. So where do you see, like game four, do you see Phoenix winning winning Game four? Yeah? I

think Phoenix will win the next two games. A couple of things, like Booker was actually getting half decent shot quality. You could just tell the overall physicality the game was wearing on him a bit, and he was missing shots. You know, you and I after Game two talked about how Milwaukee didn't necessarily need to change what they were doing, they just needed to do it better. And when I what I noticed when I was watching that game and when I rewatched it was just how much better Milwaukee

was it. All these simple things, like a lot of their drop coverages with Brook Lopez actually kind of worked. And the reason why is the dude chasing Chris Paul or Devin Booker over the screen just did a better job of getting over the screen and hounding the ball handler so that Brooke didn't have to come up as high. And if Brooke doesn't have to come up as high, he can then shut off the paint, which then throws

everything else in that in in Phoenix's action off. And so from that standpoint, you know, that's a that's kind of an effort thing. A lot of that stuff, A lot of that a lot of that stuff. You know, when you look at projecting forward in the series, chances are Phoenix is gonna come out with a lot better intensive. They did not shoot the ball at all. We talked you mentioned earlier, earlier in the podcast that you know, the physically aggressive team is the one that gets the

foul calls. The team that the team that is putting pressure on the other team physically is generally gonna get rewarded with free throws. And guess what after Phoenix was the team that controlled the free throw line in the in Phoenix. Here in Milwaukee in Game three, Milwaukee's the more physically aggressive team. They're the team that's getting to the line more. That I think is going to swing

back in Phoenix's favor in this next game. I also think, like you know, just in general, with the honest, as Chris Paul mentioned in his postgame interview, they just didn't do a good job of building that wall around the rim.

There was just a there was a sloppiness to some of the basic principles that you need to slow down your honest and so I just in a similar way till to the way mil Milwaukee just did a better job in game three with all of their things that they need to do, I think Phoenix is going to do a better job in game four. And they didn't get anything out of really anybody other than Eton and Chris Paul and even Eyton struggled after the first fifteen

minutes of the game. So I think I will feel relatively confident that Phoenix is gonna win by right around ten points in game four and then blow their doors off in game five. That's what I expect to happen. Yeah, and Aiden is everything like forty minutes a game in this series. He had twenty four minutes UM in game in game three, eight for eleven and twenty four minutes is insanely efficient. And he's really their honest garter in

my opinion. And Jay Crowder but like when they get Cam Johnson on a switch, like it's just or whoever else is switched on, switching on to Janice, it's just Overhannest is too strong. Going thirteen for seventeen from the free throw line, I thought was a big part of this game. It really helps him out. His aggression continues when he hitting free throws. I don't think you'll hear

that at that rate going forward as well. That I think that's really a big domino for them when he gets his free throw rate going up and he gets assists from now he gets passes out um And I think Bud kind of we talked about early buds, a guy that reacts to the series. He doesn't punch first. I thought he really did a nice job. Brent Forbes played I think three four minutes last night for Lopez

twenty minutes. I think that's where if the Bucks are going to make this series, that's kind of happen to go forty minutes for all their starters. P J Tucker thirty minutes. Um, he hit one corner three last night. So I know they got really good shooting from everybody, Like, I don't know how sustainable that is going into Game four, and I feel like the Suns feel pretty well. Devin Booker, like you said, man, I was watching he took the shots that he gets, like, those are the shots he's

looking to get to. Um, he just missed them. And he can do he can go like that, he can go cold. But I thought he got the shots he wanted. And I think the Suns lived with those jumpers from Drew Holiday and he got better shot quality than Drew Holiday. Drews just went in yeah, exactly, like three free throws combined for Drew Holiday and Chris Milton. And I think Chris Milton got it on a he was piled on

three point attempt. I believe because he has three free throws total and it was the first first free throws of this series. Yeah, and Drew Holiday zero free throws last night, Like he had an amazing game eight from fourteen, zero free throws, Like when he was passing when he got to the rim too, I think that was a big part. He was jump shot heavy and then driving to pass that that's very true, and he he had

a bunch of big jumpers. But again those shots I think they live with, Like Drew Holiday is not the level of shooter to where I'm comfortable with him taking step back threes in transition and thinking that's um that can work going forward. So I think I like where phoenixes as well. I feel like they win. They win

Game four. So in the last thing I wanted to say about about the Bucks, Chris Middleton in particular, You and I talked a lot about Chris Middleton in the last pot, and I made a point of of of talking about how his tendency is to want to turn his back to the basket when he has a he has a mismatch and try to take a jump shot.

So he got isolated into campaign three times in the first half by my count, and the first one was in the first quarter, and he got Campaign on his hip and took a turnaround fade away and missed it. And he had not done anything at the rim to that point in the game. It was literally his one of his first shots of the game, had a great mismatch, could have got to the rim, didn't, took a fade away, missed it. So then started the second quarter same thing.

Gets isolated on Campaign side, is cleared, he rips over the top and pulls the ball down and goes to the basket, gets right by Campaign, gets all the way to the rim, scoop layup and Campaign fouls him and one easiest basket he got all night, and then literally a few possessions later, he gets isolated on Campaign on the other side of the floor. This time he's kind of facing the basket from about twenty ft and he rips through to the right and beats Campaign to the

spot and immediately turns his back to the basket. And then as soon as he turns his back to the basket, he takes a back down dribble and Campaign reaches in and knocks the ball out of bounds. And literally like, dude, you just got all the way to the rim on this guy, Like you just overpowered him physically, you know, like like it's it's you know, Chris Middleton is one of the most skilled and polished players that we have in our league. He's at over twenty points per game.

That automatically puts you an elite elite company. But he just it's inexcusable to have zero free throw attempts through that point in the game, and then to have through that point in the series, and then I obviously had a three later in the game. But the point is is like that the physical aggression, aggression of Chris Middleton is the missing piece, and you could see it, Like I told you I expected Chris to go off in Game three and Drew to struggle that boys, I wrong.

Chris continued to kind of do more of the same thing, even though once he made were tough, it seemed like in that game and then uh, and then Drew Holiday got going. So I don't know, it's just it's just it's got to be frustrating to watch for Bucks fans because he's a six eight wing, like that's that should be a physical advantage for you not a skill ad

and it's necessarily makes sense. Yeah, And I think Michael Bridges does a good job on him as well, kind of chasing over those screens, fighting and putting back pressure. I'm looking at Chris Milton's shot chart here. He took one shot at the rim the whole night, and that's the that's the kind of play you're talking about. And I just think that's kind of his game. And Yannice's floor has to be so high for them to win. Um,

he had went back to back forty point games. Um, I think they had the stat Only a few guys have done that. UM. Lebron and other guys have have had multiple forty point games UM in the finals. Like, that's where his floor has to be for them to be competitive in this series. And uh, I'm not sure if he can continue that. Maybe he can. The way they're defending him, I think more eight minutes will kind of, uh, kind of kind of to turn him a little bit at the rim. Um, it's hard to build that wall

with no one back there. And again, the Kaminsky minutes to me, just didn't make any sense. I'd rather play Tory Craig at the five and kind of live with just switching. Um, and I feel like my budleholes are playing with fire thirteen minutes for Jeff Tigue is just you're just asking for death and get in game four. I just don't understand it at all, even though he was a plus nine tonight. But yeah, like I don't

the bucks, I feel like just shorting the rotation. Try to continue honest at the five as much as they can. But yeah, I thought that was the biggest key to me eight going out with those with the foul trouble just open the whole game up for them and they didn't have to worry about anything on the other end. Um, they got their spacing, pat content, hit a bunch of hit a big three as well. Um, they got their shots to go. And it's usually what happens at home.

It's just weird for guys of Drew Holiday and Chris Milton's stature to where like the home and road splits are what they are is it's it's it's fascinating to me when I when I see that as uh see those stats for them. But they have another home game, so maybe they'll take came four. But I have the

suns as well. Winning. You know, this is something that Bill Simmons talks about all the time on his podcast, is the concept of like, you know, the the last, the last, you know, frontier of the superstar is consistency. You know that what separates a Drew Holiday or Chris Middleton or Devin Booker from the top echelon of stars

is the ability to do it every single night. Um and and you know, and I think we take that for granted a lot of the time with the Lebrons and the A d s. Is just how how consistent they are and what what you can expect from them on a night tonight basis. And I do think that's interesting. So, you know, one last thing about this game before we move on. Um, So just to preface this before we even get started, because I want to talk about Janics for a second. You know, this was something Jackson Frank

was tweeting about yesterday. He went on a soliloquy basically discussing this idea that uh that you know, we should always uh we're we're too we're too quick to try to contextualize everything that happens in a basketball game within NBA history, and how all we should do is just watch what's on the floor and talk about what's on

the floor. Now, I do agree with him to the extent that talking about what's happening in the games is the most important because everything else is fake, you know, like talking about anything that's not actually taking place on the floor is fake basketball, whereas what's happening on the floor is real basketball. So I agree with him in

that regard. However, NBA history is all about comparing and and talking about how is this similar to what Shack died in two thousand one, How is what Lebron did in two thousand eighteen similar to what you know, uh, you know Dirk did in two thousand eleven, or whatever. It is, Like, that's what we do. We we we compare eras, we compare players, like we build lists. We talked about who the greatest of all time is. We talked about who the greatest team of all time is.

And I think that's okay. I think that that's part of being an NBA fan. I just think that the nuts and bolts of those conversations has to be basketball oriented, which which is totally fair. So my question for you is this, Janice has been incredible to this point, in the postseason. He's clearly the best player in this series. Um, I don't think they're gonna win, but there's obviously a chance that he could end up, uh, you know, going

nuclear and stealing this series. So my question for you is, how do you contextualize what Janice is doing compared to his peers and what they've done in the past, guys like Kauai, guys like Staff, guys like Lebron. How does what he's doing stack up or or compare to what his peers are doing. Because if you're gonna say Nice is the best, you have to say he's better than k d. You have to say he's better than Steph. You have to say he's better than Lebron or Kauai.

And so that that's my question for you is like what do you make of this? The honest run to this point. So for me, really clearly on the Jackson France, Jackson is my guy. He's he's a great dude. Um, but yeah, like everything is contextual, Like everything in life is contextual, and that off court encourt encore is quantifiable, right, Like we can see what happened, we can go to a box score, like hey, this guy missed ten shots.

That's what happened. Off the court, it's objective, who's the greatest? All that aesthetics? What do you prefer? That's why I try to keep it on the court. Off course stuff. I don't really get into legacy and stuff as all that, but with the honest, like for me, I really value playoff performance and like finals performance. Like I feel like I heard a lot of these conversations lately. I'm sure you here too, here too, not to like move off of the honest, but people are like, oh, is zach

Lavine Zach Levine? If you play sack Lavine with Devin Booker, the sons will be exactly where they are. I'm like, maybe I don't know that though, but Devin book are doing it on this stage should mean something. He should get at least the benefit of the doubt, like or they say like, oh it replace zac Lavine with Donovan Mitchell, the Utah would still be the number one seed. I

don't know that to be true. But Zach Lyman, I don't know what he would do in the playoffs, but just seeing in person means a lot to me, Like you honest, doing this puts him on the upper echelon. To me, this is with like Steph who went through the playoffs, Um, Katie when he was in Oklahoma City, ran through, got to the finals. Like this is up there with that. You can't deny the numbers anymore. You

just you just can't. As it once like all that Middleton was Middleton is Batman or whatever they were saying. All that stuff is dead now I believe. I mean, honest has pretty much put himself up there. Um and his skill and his physicality. I mean, you have to put him there. You just have to. Guys who have these finals performances are rare. That's why I put what a D did last year in such high regard. I know people skip over it because of where it was

done in the environment, but that's an insane run. If you look at the numbers, look at the performances, the guys see out played. James Hardens is a surefy Horror Hall of Famer. That dude guy outplayed by a D in a series Like that's what happened, you know what I mean? And I just look at that. Nicola Yokich as well, another great player. But people who do it in the playoffs, to me, means a lot more. Be honest, if he gets a ring with this means a lot.

It's a dirt level ring in my opinion, like go look at who dirt beat to run to the finals. It might be a little bit more than this, but that's the kind of run he's on. And the Honest's numbers I think are even more insane than Dirk if I have to look at it, um just from finals to finals. Um. I don't know if that's really comparison. They're totally different players, but yeah, those numbers are undefinable. Man.

He It puts him in the echelon of Katie, you know, Kauai, whoever you want to put him with, uh and to do it with this Bucks team. I think we're gonna look back at the town on this roster and I think it's good. But still like his second and third guys from Chris Mountain, Drew Holiday should means something for him. He doesn't have a superstar next to him, So what do you see, Like where do you kind of put him?

I guess in those lists because I know you're you really like to kind of go and and kind of compare these these guys. What do you see from him? In that list. I like comparing UH players because like this is, let's just be clear, like basketball is a sport. It's a team sport, but it's the team sport where individuals have the most impact. And it's also the sport where you work on your individual game, you know, and

see results that can impact the team the most. And and and I think it's just it's also just a part of NBA history. That's the reality of it. Like throughout NBA history, players have been ranked and compared against each other. It's part of the culture of the game. And that's just never gonna go away. That's just kind of the way it works. But anyway, like the way

I see, it's real simple. I used to see Kauai, Lebron, Stephen Katie in their own tier at the top of the league, and the guys like Janice and Harden and a d were like right there behind him. Well, now I think Janice has every bit of as much acclaim to be in that tier. Um, you know, Anthony Davis did last year as well, but then he had a huge fall off this year, which you know, could be effort related, it could be injury related, it could be a combination of all those things, but you can pretty

much count on that not happening with Joannice. Like Janice is gonna come out next year and attack the season just like just like he did this year. But anyway, I think that that's I think that means a lot to be to be considered in the same tier as those guys is a huge deal. Um That said to me, personally, I still think that those four guys are better than him.

If if he has a case over any of them, it's going to be Kauai because he's a similar type of player who had success when every other hole in his game was filled by something that his teammates did really really well. Um But I think that, you know, uh, it's important to acknowledge what's going on here. Like Janice, as incredible as he's looked, was out late by Kevin Durant in the Conference semis and was one inch away from losing that series even though he had the better team,

because Kevin Durant was that much better than him. I think that that is not something I can wipe out of my memory just because Janice is still playing in Katie's not playing, And I think that this whole year has been a referendum on the way that we evaluate players, because even myself, I think leaned too much into the team that wins and holds the trophy at the end the best players on that team when nine times out of a tend not nine times out of tend, but

a significant percentage of the time, it actually doesn't work out that way. But I think, I think I'm extremely impressed by Janice. I consider him a top tier superstar, which is something I didn't consider him to be before. And last, but not least, I because I'm because I've seen the way he's wired, because I've seen the way he's not scared of the moment, because I've seen the

way he can physically dominate guys. I am like, relatively certain that at some point in his early thirties, you know, thirty years old, thirty one years old, thirty two years old, he's gonna have enough Paulish where he's gonna go on

a stretch where he's better than everybody. He's gonna and who knows, maybe Luca is gonna be right there with him, who maybe his ion will who knows, But Janice is going to have a stretch where his brain catches up to his body, and it's gonna be frightening, especially if he's on a decent team, Because this guy is doing all this stuff right now. I hate the phrase no bag, but he's doing all this stuff right now, and he's

lacking polish and what the polish. He'll never be Kevin Durant, but he he might eventually get to the point where he's a little bit more on the level of like Jalen Brown in his skill set, a guy who can do some more complicated dribble moves, a guy who can get hot from the three point line and be relatively consistent as a jump shooter, you know, from fifteen to twenty feet, like that stuff will happen for him, and

when it does, it's gonna be scary. And and I think, uh, and I enjoy rooting for him, and I think it'll be fun when that when that time eventually comes. But I don't think this is his moment. I don't think he has what it takes to win this series. Yeah, And I want to bring it back to two things, like like you kind of said, um first of all with him, like, yeah, where was I going with this? I lost my lost my train thought. But yeah, like that dude is twenty six year old. Oh yeah, there

we go. But you talked about Bill Simmons saying, like, um, consistency, right, that's what Superstar is. Consistency, Like that's everything. Look at Joannest the last three years, Like we talked about his MVP Awards. We laugh at him because of the way they went on the playoffs. His numbers are insane every night. His motor is insane. It's a generational motor. In my opinion, the guys don't play this hard as long as he does. Um, he plays hard the whole night he goes. He carries

that Bucks team to sixty plus wins. I think in like two straight years his numbers are insane. Year old, Like he's gonna be insane at like thirty. You know what I mean. Guys at this age just don't just aren't aren't this guys without this kind of bag as you talk about this kind of like handle don't average these kind of numbers just because they're physical. Like he does have skills, they're just not skills that are aesthetically

pleasing in my appeion. And the second thing you said, he got outplayed by Kevin Durant there's no shame in that like that, of course, like Kevin Durant to me, it might be the best score ever, Like there's no there's no there's no shame in being out played by him, especially through scoring. Like Katie to me is a might be a top ten player ever and that might be like his floor, you know what I mean, Like that's how good Katie is. Being outplayed by him is no shame.

I saw people like we're like laughing at that. I was like, no, there's no shame in me out there. Jest was incredible, honest was incredible. I just thought Katie was better. You honest, didn't shrink from the series your honest just he be honest, brought his best punch, and Kevin Durant's best punch was better. I thought that That's just the way I interpreted that seriously. And Katie is a super polished playoff performer, forget just regularly. He knows

exactly how playoffs work. He's been in a ton of them, won two rings. Like he's a guy that really knows what he's doing. Um, So being outplayed by him is no shame. And I agree with you. I think you're honestly gonna touch a couple more finals before it's all said and down. I just that's just how I see his kind of career going out. But yeah, the students, Uh, the students amazing and uh, I think even putting in context like his numbers, you can't deny them anymore. His accolades,

you can't deny them. Two m vps. Uh. I don't know if he has two Defensive Player of the Years. I think I think his first last year Defensive Player of the Year. So yeah, like I think he's gonna be great. Um, and that's where his career is heading to. When you're right at thirties, gonna be a monster six man, that's in That's insane. This isn't a Apple's Apples comparison because Lebron was twenty two when this happened, but it kind of but you know, Janice isn't Lebron, and but

he's kind of on a similar type of trajectory. I think in the sense that you know, the two thousand seven playoff run from Lebron wasn't the playoff run where he was gonna win a title. It never was. He took him further than than you would have expected under the circumstances. But what the two thousand seven playoff run was was a week Eastern Conference, a Pistons team that was kind of on the way out. Some things that broke his way. It kind of like what happened with

the Honest here. Some things broke his way in this playoff runts he benefited from some injury luck and so what what what's interesting is you know that two thousand seven run for Lebron, though, what did it tell us? It told us that this guy's made of the right stuff and that soon in the next few years, he's going to elevate his game to a point where he can dominate the league. That's what that told us, And

we were all right to have thought that. Well, that's kind of where I am at with the honest is like, this is like his two thousand seven finals run. He

gets he's getting to the finals. He's probably gonna lose to a better team, but he's proving to all of us that he is one thousand percent the real deal in terms of that, you know, like they were asking, uh, Bill Bill Simmons was asking, I think Kevin O'Connor in his podcast, he goes, do you think Janice is capable of like being a Pantheon guy, which he considers to be. I think it's like his top fifteen players of all time or something along those lines. Well, and they were

kind of bouncing around. I think I can't remember. I think he said, don'tn't know. To me, that's ad percent, absolutely yes, because you know, to be that kind of level of player, all you need to do is to have like a seven to eight year period of true dominance where you win several championships, several m v ps, so on and so forth. You mean to tell me Janice can't go from twenty seven to thirty three and and just be a wrecking ball in the league. Of

course he can. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. He's wired. I mean, he needs to get better. I just think he will. I think he will get better. And like and in terms of his mentality, he's like so he's like this weird hybrid of like Russell Westbrook and Steph Curry where he's this consummate leader who always is even keeled, but at the same time as this unbelievable motor and and and so I I'm a I'm a believer in what he can be, and I certainly think he could go down as one of the best

players ever. Yeah, and I was just looking at his numbers. He's twenty nine forty five in the last two games, Like that's that's that's absolutely ridiculous. Get again, Like the no bad kind of conversation. I feel like there's a lot of nuance to that, and I feel like there's good arguments on both sides, like, yeah, he doesn't have a heavy step back crossover, there's euro step, Like that's skill you have to like work on and have to perfect.

And he understands angles, he understands where guys if he hits them, where they fall off, Like that's all skill related. And then like you just compare to a guy like Ben Simmons who number one pick, similar type of game, similar type of uh trying to attack the rim, and you just watch the mentality difference, and I think that's kind of what separates them to right. Ben Simmons has decided I'm never gonna shoot a jump shot ever, Like that's just not what I'm doing. I'm gonna do what

I do. And there's a cap to your ceiling to that even if you honest misses those shots, even though people Charles Prokoly goes on TNT every time and like, don't ever take a three? And yan his head like why should I not take it three? I work on this crab for hours and hours and hours. Of course I'm gonna take one, you know what I mean, Like exactly yeah, and like again we don't. Basketball is not

played on a spreadsheet, you know what I mean. You can't just type in be honese never shoot at three, and he does that, you know what I mean, Like that's just not how basketball works. We've all played. When you're left open, you shoot, Like that's just just like from a standard standard basketball, It's just how that works. So it's funny watching that his mentality is what it is, Like he's a guy that what drafted. I think you have to like thirteenth or some some late kind of

first round. So his kind of arc is so different that I feel like his success is his own villain in this way, like he was too good too early, like like people put championship or bus expectations on him. Last year it was like twenty five, Like guys don't even win their first house. I thought that was always kind of crazy. The Bucks were too good for their own good, Like that's what he's funny, that's just kind

of where are we? And Luca is going to go through this in the next two years, even though he's not gonna be twenty three for another like three years or two years or whatever. It is like these all these guys because of the arrow and we're in and their numbers are insane. I think we're gonna look at

Luca this way and in a short time too. Those are the two guys though, Those are the two guys that that I think are going to run the league, um probably and obviously not together but on different teams. But anyway, Uh. The last THINGLE say about you, honest before we move on, is like, I'm actually okay with him taking jump shots as long as it doesn't dominate his shot selection. But I think he should take five

jump shots a game. I think he should take one or two threes, and you know, one or two turnaround pull ups and then another you know, off the dribble, seventeen footer or when the defender sacks off of him, if for nothing else, just to keep them honest. Variety is what keeps a defender off balance. You have to

be able to you have to be able to. You know, I tweeted something about this out yesterday, but it's like, you know, no fake that you make works unless it's built on the foundation of an actual threat to score.

If I if I'm posting you up and I do a shoulder fake to my left side, if I haven't shown that I'll shoot over that shoulder, then you're gonna ignore that fake, you know if if in vice verse, so you need to Everything needs to be built on the foundation of something that's real, uh and that the defender has to think about. And so if you're your honest and in an out dribble is the foundation for a pull up jump shot because the balls in your left hand and your and your you look like you're

about to get into a shot. If you can't at least make the defender think about exiting his defensive stance to take a lunge step forward to contest the shot, then you're not going to get by. And you have to you have to have that fear of every option

that's available. And so that's why, and that's what makes Ben Simmons so easy to guard is you don't even have to if he if he if he comes, if you go under a ball screen and he's standing but naked at the top of the key, like you don't even have to think about the fact that he might try to make you pay for doing that, and that just makes him that much easier to guard. Um. Do you have anything else on your honest or the Bucks or the Suns before we move on to Team USA? Uh? No,

I think that's it. Yeah, I feel like we we really got into Uh, it's gonna be a fun game for so we we'll see, should be a fun game for and and Milwaukee's favored by four, so I will be on the Suns and we'll see if my streak of being right continues or if I lose all my money. We'll see anyway, you've been on game three? Yeah, I've bet everything and I've just rolled the winnings into the next one. So so far, I've turned fifty bucks into

four hundred bucks. We'll see if that ends up being oh Man by the end of the series, or if I'm broke. One of the two will happen. I'm not touching it. I know if I bet Suns, the Bugs are gonna win. So I leave it alone. Don't leave it alone. Okay, So there's a couple of things with this Team USA thing that I want to touch on. We're gonna talk about the officiating shortly, but the thing that I wanted to start with is just this this

team construction. So I haven't watched gone back to watch the Australia game yet, but I but I watched the Nigeria game. Um, and I probably will go back and watch the Australia game just because I think Australia is a fun team to watch. Two there's such an interesting group of of of ball players. But anyway, so this is the thing that I think is super interesting, and I'm gonna use a personal experience for me personally just

to kind of explain in this. So you know, when I was in junior college, I was an All Conference offensive player. I've said this on this podcast before. And then when I came to Arizona Christian the last school that I played at, we were one of the best teams in the country. We were top five in the nation and a I A and we had two All American guards and all of a sudden, they didn't need

me to score. And what was interesting was I really struggled early in the season trying to be a scorer and a third role, which was so different for me, and I had some issues with it. But I remember there was a film study, uh film session that we had about a third of the way through the season, and we had a really deep team with a lot

of talented guys. The guy behind me coming off the bench, it was an All conference player the previous season at the same position, and the coach got up and he goes, you know, one of the reasons why Jason is still playing even though he hasn't been making shots at this point in the season is he's defending like crazy, and he's always doing the right thing within the offense and the play like he's not he's running the plays properly,

he's not breaking off, he's staying within himself. That's why I'm continuing to play him, because I can trust him. And it kind of resonated with me and the rest of the season, I almost never shot. I would take two or three shots a game, and I would just guard the other team's best player. But I played, I started, and I played, you know, the vast majority of the

game because of it. Because I took a larger role that I had in the past, and I reconfigured it into a smaller role to fit with better players to win in a team concept. And you know, there's been a lot of analytics guys going nuts on this Team USA thing, being like points per game is overrated. A lot of these players are overrated because they're putting up big scoring numbers. That's bullshit. Scoring is every bit as valuable as it's ever been. The ability to put the

basketball in the in the basket is extremely valuable. However, within a team concept, that's just one of the things that you need to do. You actually need to do a great many things to win a basketball game. You need to be physical at the point of attack defensively, especially in FIBA when they allow you to be. You need to be able to rebound, you need to be able to uh to knock down spot up three's, not

crazy off the dribble three's. And what's happening with Team USA, in my opinion, is you've got a lot of guys who are used to playing one role, which is this alpha offensive role, that are now being forced into a tertiary or an even further down the food chain type of role, and they're not doing all the dirty work that you have to do in those roles in order to succeed. Zach Levine is used to being the guy who takes a million shots and everyone else on the

team does all the dirty work. Well, guess what on this team, Zach Lavine needs to be more like Michail Bridges. He needs to be more like a guy who uses his athleticism as a wing defensively and then takes shots in the flow of the offense. Everything should be catch and shoot for him. Everything for him should be attacking closeouts. Everything need for him should be simplified to his specific role.

And it bothers me because, like I feel like all of the people involve aolved with Team USA should know this because this is literally what happened in two thousand eight. If you remember, they lose in two thousand four, and they lose in two thousand six, they lose twice, and the whole thing became exactly what I'm saying, too many stars, not enough role players. So if you remember they brought on uh what were the who were the guys they

brought in? They brought on the lefty from the Bucks, um Michael read as like a spot up shooter to join the team. They on the two thousand twelve team, they brought in Jason Kidd. On the two thousand eight team, they brought in uh I think it was Mike Miller was on that team too. They brought in role players, They brought in guys to play roles instead of strictly

bringing stars. And then all of a sudden, here we are ten years later and they've completely forgot that that that lesson that they learned, Like, it does what I'm saying is saying make any sense? Or do you think I'm crazy? It does? Really, I just want to preface this is that two Expedition exhibition games, like they're not going their hardest as well, right, people want Katie to bend like it's the end, be a finals. He's not going to. He knows like what the consequence of losing

these games are, which is nothing. Also, I think the lead the world has kind of caught up a little bit, Like I like, you watch Australia play and it's so like this modern offense or running these double track screens with for Patty Mills and he's coming off shooting like he's Steph Curry, Like, I feel like the world also has kind of caught up. But like, I don't know, looking at their roster construction, there should be more than enough talent to win. Like these other teams have a

few NBA players. We have all NBA dudes on this team. They should be able to work it out. You can't score any three points with like Dame Katie Tatum real playing for you, Like these are offensive juggernauts at what they do, not just good offensive role. But this is not not like Dennis Shrewder. This is like the top the top offensive level players. I think they'll figure it out. Um, I think their talent is still enough. That's why I'm like,

I don't know how to really blame. I know the roster construction isn't perfect, but like they have a team like all star level dudes that should be able to figure it out high basketball. Like you guys, I think Draymond is a guy that can do the stuff you're talking about, the little stuff, the rebounding um, trying to protect the rim. Playmate kind of moved the ball, be

a ball mover. Zach Lavine. I think Zach Lavine kind of last night, at least when I was watching he got shots that he usually guess those dribble step into threes, that he took those. Dame is like the de facto point guard on this team. Um, he's a guy running all the ball screen action, trying to get people involved. I think they'll figure it out. Um, it's not a perfect roster. The talent discrepancy isn't like it wasn't two thousand and eight. Two thousand eight, they had Kobe Lebron.

I think Durant was was Durant on that team or he wasn't drafted yet. He was in twenty twelve team Kobe Lebron Durant. They were beating teams by like forty and fifty like in two twelve. I remember those games. I don't think this team will do that, but there still should be enough talent to kind of override that. It's been two games. I expect the chemistry to pick up.

I expect their them and know each other's tendencies. It felt like it felt like a little bit more serious All Star game to where they're trying to, you know, be a little bit more unselfish than they're used to. Um, that's kind of what I saw. Did you see a little bit as well. Yeah, I mean the I think that it's better to lose early and to build that urgency when things don't matter, than to skate by in some of these games to convince yourself it's not a problem,

and then to and to succeed later. To your point, they have guys on the roster that will do the dirty work. They just have to do it. I mean, there's been a lot of talk about defense on this roster, right We've we've all heard it. I'm sorry, but if you're starting lineup as Bam Jayson Tatum and Kevin Durant, you should be locking teams up. A lot of exactly A lot of this is effort. Like you said, they

aren't giving their best. The one thing that concerns me about that though, is and you can tell me if you disagree, Raj, but like the they're never going to be able to match the effort. So or I shouldn't even say the effort. The the it's way more more important. This is somebody uh j is. His name is buddy of mine on Twitter. He played Division one ball out in California, I think, and he tweeted this out yesterday

and I thought it made perfect sense. He's like, it just doesn't mean the same to these guys to play for USA that it does for the Nigerians to play for Nigeria, or the Australians to play for Australia. For Luca to play for the Slavonian national team, like, it means so much more to them to do what they're doing than it does for the Americans to play for the USA. There's a lot of reasons for that that we're not going to get into, but as far as

they're concerned, it's just less important. So that's going to be a factor throughout this entire run in my opinion, And you're right, the world has caught up. The other teams are like Nigeria, the Nigerian team is ten times better than they were ten years ago. You know, the USA beat them by a d I think the previous time they had played them. So like, there's just more talent globally, and they give a ship and the Americans kind of don't. And so that will be a factor

throughout the whole process. Now, I I'm with you. I think that as this progresses, Popovich is going to be able to get stars to buy into roles. You're gonna get guys of the caliber of a Jason Tatum to embrace being Hey, like, this is Katie and Dame's team, so I'm gonna be a three and D guy. You know, You're gonna get guys to embrace all of that. Bam is going to be like, you know, maybe I'm not

Miami Bam. Maybe I'm more of like a DeAndre and type of role where I'm just letting them do all of the the offensive work and I'm just gonna bruise the hell out of everybody with my physicality. You know, I think they're gonna I think they're gonna get into their roles and I think they're gonna get it going, and I think they're gonna be able to win this tournament when it comes down to it. Yeah, I think the roles will be more defined as we go on here. Um,

Katie was still amazing. He had like a bunch of really tough three point shots that he hits. But you could tell they're like in a relaxed kind of mode on the other side, going hard as they should. That Jr. Played their Assholt like they wanted to win that game, and that was one and people are saying that's one of the biggest upsets UM that they've seen. Right in in uh In Viva Basketball UM. Australia as well. They wanted to win that. You could tell. Joe Ingles was

fired up, Patty Mills was fired up. When they played the USA. You watched, you watch Katie and Dame's body language compared to like the Australia players, you know, I mean they they want to win, that they're fired up, they want to be team is say, and you know the other side is just kind of kicking the ball around, trying to you know, trying to I'm not saying they didn't want to win, but it just didn't feel like as intense as I think in actual game would and

they could still lose. I mean, this team isn't I still think they have a huge talent advantage, but it's not like it was UM in previous years. The world has definitely caught up and these teams practiced together right Like Australia, this team knows each other. You could tell their actions are Chris, they know exactly what they want to run. UM, they know what they're doing on the offensive end. Meanwhile, like team you say, is still trying to figure out The King's still trying to figure out

what they wanted do. That's what I saw the difference in these first two games. Um the effort and those teams know each other a little bit more um than this one. That's super interesting that you bring that up, because I was going to say that earlier to like the these national teams generally bring the same guys to

every tournament. Yeah, and Team USA is so radically different every time they send a team because it's like what what uh you know what a sponsorship type of deals or you're running over the summer that are gonna make it so that you can't get out, Like oh uh, space jam is happening, so I can't play this year? Whatever it is, you know, Like literally, that's the issue that a lot of these American players deal with that the guys overseas don't have to deal with, and so

they bring the same group of guys. Um, how do you think. I don't think officiating is the reason why the Americans are struggling. I do think that they have struggled with it, but I think they can win in spite of that. What did you make of the officiating? Do you think it's impacting their ability to win these games games. Do you like the way Feeble as officiated? What has been your your thought process with that? Oh? I love the officiating. I love that they look at

the ref and the ref just tells them to play on. Like, I absolutely love it that it's pretty much like open run kind of where like you can't just call these bogus fouls. You see Damon bal drive, trip on their own leg, throw the ball up, try to draw a foul, and these refs are just not buying it. Um. I love. I love the kind of physicality that they also allow. It just feels like a little bit more like not. I know it's still the modern game as well, a lot of high pick and roll, but they allow a

little bit more hand checking as well. You kind of put your handle and defender um as they used to. I tooted it out. Eighty three points is inexcusable, and people are telling like, well, it's the feeble rules. A few rules does not stop Damian Lillard, Bradley Beale, Jason Tam Kevin Durant from getting baskets. USA scored one point in the final four minutes and thirty seconds of that game like that, that does shouldn't happen for a team with this much offensive talent. I don't care what the

rules are, I don't care what the physicality allow. Like that, just that just should not happen. I don't think it will. But I love, I love what the rest are doing. Man, people want their FEBA reffs to kind of move into the USA. Um. I don't think that's how that works. I think they're allowed to kind of call the games this way. Um, they don't. I saw Kevin Love trying

to draw a foul at the three point line. I don't know if he saw that were like he pumped baked, try to put his body into the defender and shoot at three, you know, just the unnatural shooting motion, and the ref absolutely ignored it, did not even give it any kind of any kind of daylight. So um, I love with the rest are doing. I don't think it's why. I think it's an adjustment. But like, I don't think

that's why they lost these first two games. I think A hundred has to do more with effort and also continuity of the teams. Any other teams playing a lot harder, like you said, and that's where I see. I don't think. I think they'll adjust pretty quickly to these uh FEBA rules. Yeah, I I I'm with you. I can't. It can't be

used as an excuse. Um. Yeah, as far as like I absolutely wish the NBA was officiated in this fashion, Um, you know, I do disagree with Like there was one exchange that I saw on Twitter where you know where people there's the and I've seen this kind of talking point happen a lot over the last year because officiating has been such a problem in the NBA. But it's like who's to blame. Is it the rules or is

it the officials? And so many people want to blame the league in the rules, but I do I do think the officials carry a good amount of the blame because they are officiating in a way that is hurting the league. And the reason why I say that is, guess what. You're not allowed to foul people in FIBA. That's not the rule. The rule is not you're allowed to grab at you who was driving past you. The rule is not if Kevin loved pump Fakes, you're allowed to run into him while he's shooting. Those are not

the rules. What's happening there is the referees are showing discretion. They are saying amongst themselves and to the players, if you try to foul bait, I'm not rewarding you. It is. It's a psychology with the refs that they are imprinting as their interpretation of the rules. In FEBA, you're not allowed to foul, but the refs are saying, if you're trying to fool me, if you're trying to flop and make it look like you're getting fouled, I'm not gonna

reward reward you. And that's what the basketball that's that's the way that the NBA needs to approach this is. It's not about changing rules. The rules are fine. There are a couple of rules they need to change, Like you know, obviously, you know something silly like if you attempt to draw some sort of jump shot foul. That's an unorthodox Yeah, we check out outside out of bounds

instead of free throws, that sort of thing. But in terms of the nuts and bolts of the way the game is set up with the rules, there's nothing wrong with that. Necessarily, it's officials that are baited into fouls from players. They play that game with the players, and it's a mutue and the players are partially to blame for the record. The players and the officials have built this relationship where they have allowed you to manipulate them,

and and in FIBA that relationship doesn't exist. They don't put up with it, and the game is better for it. You know, if if if Kevin Love shot that exact same three without doing the crazy pump, fake lean in type of deal, and the dude hit him in the

exact same way, I think he gets the call. It's it's part of that psychology they're fighting against ref manipulation, which I think is good, and so I think I think that's the part that needs to be fixed, even more so than any sort of rule change, if that makes sense. Yeah, I don't know if you caught the World Cup game to England versus um Italy World Cup, I'm not World Cup, sorry euro Final, um don't. I've

heard about it, but I didn't see it. Yeah, So just it's so funny watching that and seeing the refs, like even the refs there are even more of a like like guys will in soccer. I guess guys, I'm new to soccer, so like that the guy would the guy would fall and then like he would hold his knee like in driving pain, right, like driving pain, like absolutely hold it like screaming, and the ref would just be like no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing this.

And then like and then two minutes later, the guy will get up and just start playing again. I'm like, oh my god, like and they do this a lot, but the ref just does not go for it at all. They just kept trying to move on. I think they called like two about two flatterever even red cards started two cars or whatever. Yeah, yeah, two cars over the whole time. So it's amazing to watch that and then

also watching Viva. Kind of the refs. Those refs don't have relationship with the players, right, NBA refs they go to every game, the players know them, know them by name, the family, whatever, And you talked about it in the NBA. Superstars in the NBA can impact a game more than any other sport. And when that happens, like there's domino effects to that. So superstars also have relationship with the refs. They have a little bit more, you know, they just

know them a little more. It's just funny watching Bradley Beal and Dame falling and look around for like a ref they know, and there's no ref they know, so they have to like just keep playing. Is it's so funny to kind of watch that, And I would like that a little bit more in the NBA, for sure. I don't know how you uphold that, especially when these rests have been in the league for twenty thirty years.

You know, the same refs of rep the final, I think they said, like I forgot who the name was the referee, but where everything like twenty finals or on like that, Like you've been repping the same way for a very long time. Um, and I just don't think that's going to switch anytime soon. So I don't know where they go from there. Human beings are creatures of habit and and and But that's what I figured she

said anyway. Anyway, But my dad used to say this to me all the time, like people as they get, as they get older, it's far less likely for them to change. So I agree with you. I think I think it's something that that that gets complicated, you know. At the at the end of the day, I'm okay with players taking a gamesmanship from players. I'm okay with players taking advantage of the way things are. That's part of just a desire to win. We talked about this

with Chris Paul last week. However, I think part of the league's job is to legislate gamesmanship out of the game, because gamesmanship should not determine who wins. It should be who's the better basketball team. So like, I'm pro taking advantage of it while you can. However, I think it's the league's job to get it out. It's important for the league to find out how to stop this sort

of thing. Guys James Harden grabbing an arm and throwing him up in the air, or or Dame Lillard just throwing his body on the ground trying to draw jump shot out all of that. In my opinion, they need to try to get it out because it's not basketball, you know that. And and then guess what, Dame is really good. He's gonna find a way to be effective without it. That's just the way that that that's the way that those top echelon stars are. Did you have

anything else on Team USA for me move on? The only thing was, like, I think they're going to figure it out and I think the craziest thing was, like, I hope people are joking about the Katie can't handle the pressure of a second exposition game. Like, I think those takes are really funny and kind of crazy. I guess that's kind of what Twitter is for. But um, but yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Man. I don't know what. I don't want to take too much

from two exhibition games. Um, it's hard to really break down. It felt like they were just playing a friendly with another team that was going really hard. So people should calm down. The USA is gonna be fine. That going to go out in like the first round or something, though, they'll be fine. I'm glad you mentioned that because I actually thought about this yesterday, Like, it sucks so bad. Now, First of all, Twitter trolls are Twitter trolls. You're never

gonna satis. But it sucks so bad that Katie was so incredible in that playoff run and here he comes into this really funky basketball situation, which, by the way, it's just really hard. I mean like it's it's it's really hard for guys after never playing together before, to just come together and figure out how to play basketball. So I I sympathize with Kevin Durant because he's gonna get if they do happen to lose, which is certainly a possibility, He's gonna get blamed, and I don't I

don't think that's fair. But at the end of the day, like, because we know why Kevin Durants there. Kevin Durant there because he loves to play basketball and he had an opportunity to play more basketball. I be I wouldn't be surprised if he plays in four years. Like this is just the way Kevin Durant is and it just sucks because he's gonna get blamed for this if it goes south. I don't think that that's fair. Yeah, really quickly before we get out of here, I wanted to do two things.

We're gonna quickly touch on Ben Simmons and then and then we'll tell our stupid stories. So, um, Ben Simmons news came down, not a shock. We all expected this. Let's just make this really simple. Where do you want Ben Simmons to end up? Man, I have no clue, to be honest, I would like a team where, like I would have loved him in Houston kind of where they can kind of build around him and kind of build around his strength as like a driver, transition player,

um finding shooters. But like watching the playoffs, I wonder how much that's more theoretical than like actually who he is. Like if you give Ben Simmons his own team, is that how it would work? Or does he still become really like, uh, kind of shy on the court or like you know, kind of melts under like real playoff type intensity. I have no clue. I think he does need a new situation and looks like he's going to

get that. So I wouldn't like to see him on like some super rebuilding team though, like like Orlando or something where you know, it's just like if you get Ben Spence, him is there, it's just like it's it's it doesn't really help your team. In my opinion, he needs a good team around him. He needs shooters. I really don't know, how about you. Do you have like a team that that you would like him to go to.

So I just want to see what it would look like if he played in the true five out system where he was able to get to the rim or kick out the shooters, because those are strengths his strengths are he can get to the rim and and he's a great passer. He's great at finding openings in a defense.

You know. Uh in the times when he had success in Philly, a lot of it had to do with when Joe El Embiid was down early on and he was just the guy the team that I that I've seen brought up that makes a lot of sense to me. As Minnesota, I think it'd be really interesting because of Karl Anthony Towns if you could somehow do some sort of swap where Ben Simmons goes and I don't know if he said D'Angelo Russell back or or or a

bunch of draft picks or whatever. It looks like you're capitalizing in that case on Ben Simmons being cheap right now because he just played so poorly. But Minnesota would be a really interesting one because it'd be a true five out system. He'd be running pick and rolls with a guy who can pop to the three point line and shoot you know, forte on wide open three point shots like Carl Towns, and there's a lot of talent

on that roster. With the guy like Anthony Edwards. You know, there's some spacing issues there because he's not a great shooter, but that that would be a team, the kind of team that I think would make sense. I just don't want to see him go to another place where he's gonna have the exact same problems that he had before,

if that made sense for sure. And the sun of this that, like I see a lot of people bringing up trade like Phillies and win now mode, Like they can't replace Ben Simmons with like three first round picks. That doesn't do anything for him. That the jewel and reads and window mode. That Philly team is a window mode. They're playing Tobias Harris bi jillion dollars, you know what I mean. Like, that's where they are if you swap

Ben Simmons. D'Angelo Russell like to me, like if I'm looking that at as Philly, like my offense gets a bit better, like I have a better pick and roll a ball handler, but my defense gets insanely worse right like and and that Philly team to me, is built around this like rugged defense and bea Simmons kind of manning the manning the helm with that and then um

kind of getting enough offense from there. I don't know where they go, like who is who or who is trading Philly a good enough player that replaces Ben Simmons um to where they're better, Like those options are so low to me. Again, team like Houston, I don't know what they would have to give up again, like the team you men in Minnesota. D'Angel Russell is probably the most likely one for salary matches. But I don't know if that makes Philly better like that there in wind

now Mo. That's what makes it so interesting. Usually, like you don't trade your second All star, like you know what I mean, who's twenty I don't know how old Ben Simmons is. He's like twenty seven years old. But they absolutely just create came in the press, They created him after the game to where you have to trade him. You can't bring Ben Simmons back. Um. So it's they're in a weird situation where like everybody knows they're trying to trade him, and like, so you're gonna get two

Michian returns on that in my opinion. But I don't know, like the Warriors would would they take like a Draymond Back. I don't know how that would work and why why? Why would they do that, Why would Portland want Ben Simmons to take the ball out of Damian Lillard's hand? You know, like why would You're right? Like for both for for to make sense for both teams. It needs Philly to stay relevant and it needs and it needs the team that they're going to to actually need a

ball handler because that's what Ben Simmons is. And I don't know, man, it's it's it's really tricky. I don't know. If you go to Sacramento and I don't know, try to do like a Deer and Fox type of deal, but I don't know why they would do that. Like it's just it's it's tough because Ben Simmons presents a problem to whoever takes him. You need him to have ball in his hands because he can't do anything off

the ball. So that that that's the that's the issue that's presented if he if he doesn't have the ball, he has to stay in the dunker spot, you know, and he becomes basically like a like Andre Roberson, you know, Like that's that's what he becomes if his if if he can't be have the ball in his hands. So I'm with you, man, it's A, it's a it's a tough one. I don't I don't necessarily know what the answer is. Let me throw one at you. So like I see Philly fans, you know they're they're already had

their Dame photoshops or whatever. If Dame kind of requests a trap, I'm not saying he would, but like if he did, is like Simmons and thiable enough you think or do you think they able to get more for Dame on like an open and open market, Like I feel like that's the kind of deal where like Portland kind of feel good, like they get a budding superstar in Portland where you know, free agents don't really come at twenty four years old, he's locked into a contract

and you get a young guy like Kibal. Maybe Philly throws in a couple more things, but I feel like that's the kind of deal where both teams can kind of walk away from the table and feel like we got something. But Ben Simmons played so poorly. Like when you think now, when you look at it, you think Ben Simmons for Dame, You're like, oh man, that's that feels like a lot for Dames. I mean, not enough for Dame. So what do you think about that one?

Because that's the one I've been kind of thinking about. Um, that's the only one that really makes sense to me from like where that would work money wise, and the team has a team built for him kind of where you can Reportland can still kind of edit their roster to kind of maneuver around Simmons um since and then they'll obviously moving the column. I'm guessing in that situation, but like that's the only kind of real deal. I see, what do you think about that one? Have you? Have

you seen the title odds for next year? Mm? Hmm, so did you so the title odds for next year? So Golden State as the third most likely team to win the championship, behind the Lakers and nets um which, think to yourself, is there any reason why Golden State should be considered better than the Clippers next year, or the Sun's or or Denver Like? No, right, because Golden State is basically getting back Clay Thompson, who is more

or less coming off too incredibly severe injuries. There the reason why Vegas has Golden State as the third favorite is they know that if a star comes available this summer, no one's beating their offer, because if you get if if you're trading with Golden State, what you're getting back is probably going to be Wiggan Wiggins Wiseman seven and fourteen.

So you're getting a salary filler type of dude in Wiggins, You're getting James Wiseman, who was one of the top prospects in last year's draft, and you're getting two lottery picks this year. There's no offer out there that can match that, including including Ben Simmons. So what I'm saying is the way Ben Simmons could bring back someone of Dame's caliber or Bradley Beale's caliber is only if both

of them get traded. Because if one of them comes available, Golden States beating you because why would you want Ben Simmons if you could have Wiseman and two lottery picks from this draft? If that makes sense, because Ben Simmons is like we kind of already know what he is, which is an extremely flawed star. Wiseman could very well be another futuristic center, and the two picks from this draft could be anything like you know, I I have a feeling Vegas snows. Golden State's gonna win the bidding

war for the star that comes available this summer. If that makes sense, it does. I just maybe that's a great offer for Bradley Beal. But like my my ow thing was that I don't think Wiseman showed end up like Wiseman I think has a lot of potential. It just I don't think he showed enough in that first year to kind of warrant to be like this center of a trade package. Seven and fourteen are great picks, but like fourteen is the middle of the first round.

Seven is late, not late lottery. But like, if you're Philly, what does that do for you? You know what I mean? Like law for Ben Simmons to the Warriors, they offer you, Wiggins. No, no, I'm not saying you. I'm not saying Philly would trade for the Golden State package. What I'm saying is, so you had mentioned what if Philly went after Dame, And what I'm saying is if Dame was available, Philly is

not winning because Golden State has a better package. What what What I'm explicitly saying is that Philly can't win. Philly can't win a bidding war for a superstar unless two of them become available, because the first one, Golden State's gonna win. In my opinion, They're gonna have their pick.

If both if both Bradley Beale and Damian Lillard this summer come out and say we want to trade, then Golden States getting whichever one of those two they want, and then Ben Simmons might be the one who closes the deal on the other. But if only Beal is available, Golden State's getting him. If only Dame is available, Golden State's getting them in my opinion, because of the fact that their trade package, everyone else is going to be able to offer distant draft pick years down the line.

They might be able to get a young star, but Golden State's the only one that can give you the young prospect in Wiseman and the draft picks and a solid role player someone like Andrew Wiggins. Or they could probably sign and trade an ubree into there to fill salary or something along those lines. But Golden State has the treasure trove of assets that they they have the Godfather offer, which is why Vegas has Golden State as more likely to win the title next year than Phoenix

or the Clippers. You know what I mean, Like, look at how good Phoenix is in Vegas thinks the Golden State Warriors are more likely to win next year, you know what I mean? No, yeah, for sure. I guess like just from my perspective, I feel like most teams in markets like Lollington in Portland's they want the surefire star like I feel like they would like just this is my preference, Like I feel like they would take Ben Simmons over over that offer. But you might be right.

I'm Oklahoma City obviously has the crazy draft capital where if they want too, they could throw thirty first round picks as some team and say, you know, try to retract that offer. So it's just interesting, um how that works.

I follow Warriors people and like they kind of I think they feel like the Warriors aren't going to trade both of those picks, right, just well, at least just like the consensus I'm seeing, Like because they just hired two draft coach developmental coaches I think and at Kenny Atkinson and someone else. Um, just showing like I think they're really gonna try to invest in They're trying to do both, right, They're trying to win now and also invest in young players. And when you do both, you

do neither right. So so, but I feel like that's where they're going with this. UM. I think the Lakers try to do this a little bit too right when they had Lebron that first year, and also try to develop Alonzo and Ingram and you know, and Couz and acoustall on the team. But like you know, they try to do both and then you find out you do neither doing that. UM, you don't win enough to to go in that route. So I don't know, I feel like that's a good offer. I just don't think for

a winning team that makes sense. Maybe for Shington, but like so Fantasy World, Fantasy World Lakers, they need to trade Lebron for some reason. Would you rather have Ben Simmons and Phillies draft first round draft picks for the next seven years or would you rather have Wiggins Wiseman in fourteen and seven? If I'm trading Lebron James, I need a lot more than just fantasy. Do you think is better? Yeah, you're if you're a team that is

somewhat relevant like that. That's so interesting. I feel like if eight is still on the roster, I would probably still go with the Simmons package. I'd take the Star and then just figure the rest out later at seven and fourteen, aren't going to help me in the next two years, three years. Like I'm in wind now mode. I have eighty on a maxim. But if I'm Washington or Portland and losing Dame or Bill, I'm going full rebuild.

Yeah that's you're going to prioritize the Golden State package everything. Yeah, for sure, if you're those teams, you get the two pigs plus wise men probably plus even a little bit more. In my opinion, like like Bill goes, Bild goes on the open market, Like I think every team's gonna throw their best offer, um the word. Maybe the Warriors offers the best. I don't know. I've really looked. I haven't

really seen the market, but it's interesting. Man, I don't know where Simmons goes, but he's definitely not in Philly, right. I think we agree with that. Next year he'll be honest, I think he'll be gone unless unless everyone stings you with their offers. But we'll see. I tend to think that it's more everyone always says like, oh, wait till the trade deadline, Wait till the trade deadline. I tend to think that it's way better to get a guy

in for training camp, and that's the urgency, you know. Like, I think part of the reason why the Lakers looked so good with a d is that they went through a whole season with a training camp rather than trading for him at the previous trade deadline, you know, and having to be crazy in that regard. Um, did you have anything else on this or do you want to get to our last topic before we get out here? Yeah? I think that was good on Simmons. I'll be quick

because I know you gotta go to work. But this was a hilarious story because I I I like to think that that you and I are fully functioning, intelligent human beings and and but every once in a while we have are our incredibly stupid moments. And I've had more than more than enough for one lifetime. But I had never run out of gas before. And for the record,

I didn't technically run out of gas. But what happened was is I was going to go golfing with my brother and I was driving across town and I was running a little bit late for the tea time, and I saw that I only had like seven miles of range you know, and obviously this is a different era. You and I talked before the podcast, like, how do you know when you're going to run out of gas? Like you'd see the E symbol and you know you can go some amount past it, but you don't know

how far before you run out. Well, the range is like a number, and I'm very analytical thinker thinker, So when I see, oh, I have seven miles of range, they're literally saying like, I can go seven miles and then the thing is gonna stop, you know. So so my wife and I had plans that night. So I get in the car after golfing and I called my wife. And as I'm talking to my wife, I drive by a few gas stations. I get off the phone with

my wife. I'm on a major Tusson Street. Okay, major Tusson Street, major cross street that goes across the entire city. I get on it, and I get off the phone with my wife, and I look down. I only have five miles of range, and I go, Okay, I need to stop at the next gas station I see, but I'm on this major street, so I'm just gonna go. Well, I start driving and I make it a few blocks down.

All of a sudden, I have to two miles of range and I haven't seen a gas station, and and I'm like, oh, So I quickly pull over in the side of the road into a into a little shopping center, and I'll pull up the GPS and there's randomly, for whatever reason, on this big stretch of street, no gas stations in this like entire little sea is stretch of Tusson. And so I'm like, oh my god, I'm I literally can't get to a gas station right now. I look up the GPS, and I look up all the gas

stations nearby. Nothing's within four miles. I literally had to uber, uh in a hundred and seven degree heat to a gas station. I get to the gas station and there's no gas can. I look on the shelf, says gas can. There's no gas can. I go to the lady. I'm like, can you check in the back She doesn't have one. I had to uber to another gas station, get to there. There's no gas can, and I go up to the guy and I'm like, hey, man, can you please go

look at your backstock for for a gas can? And he's like he's like, well, we don't have backstock, but we've got a shed outside. But I'm the only one working today, so I can't leave the store. And I'm like about to lose my mind. I look at the guy and I'm like, I'll watch the store. Can you please go out there, I'm stranded, you know that. Finally the guy that goes out and he comes back in with a gas can and uh and then he's all like,

I found one. I'm like, yeah, thanks, appreciate it to buy it, fill up with gas, drive all the way back by the time I got home, and it's taken me two hours to do like a thirty minute drive. And again, as Roger and I were discussing, and this is something I'm hoping that somebody can answer for us. If the range says seven miles, does that actually means seven miles or does it go to zero? And then you enter some weird twilight zone where you can keep driving.

Because I don't know, because I could have risked it and driven to the gas station. I just didn't want to get stranded on the side of the busy street, you know what I'm saying. So I don't know would you have kept going or would you have done what I did. I would have definitely kept going. I have kept going before so my car as well. So it will say like it'll say twenty miles and then at like the at like eleven miles, it'll stop telling the number.

It'll just do this little like it'll start beeping, not beaping, but like it'll show like a flashing, so it won't tell me like one mile left or zero mile left. After like it get past ten miles left, it's like, yeah, I go to a gas station, but I've definitely like, um, gone close to the gone really close to leg zero for sure or past it. I don't know the exact number. I don't think it's the exact one I was telling

you before we recorded. I've seen like a news poor like they they went like thirty miles past zero something before it finally went out. So I think you would have been fine. I understand you're not risking it, but I think you would have made it home for sure, because they know, like the human kind of like people are going to try to test that, so they can't make it in exact in my opinion, like it's just

not how that how that works. But I think it's smart that you didn't test it to not get you know, stranded there, but I think you would have made it home in my opinion, Yeah, you would have definitely made it home. It's it's so funny because like, I turned thirty in less than a month. August nine was my birthday, so I made it almost thirty years without that happening.

And my wife never let me hear the end of it, because I've given her crap before for letting her range get too low, but she's never going out of gas like I did. So Yeah, anyway, it's just funny. We've all had our moments. But like, man, that was like I was like for that entire hour and a half saga of me looking for a gas station that had a gas can I have. I was talking so much shipped to myself in my head about how such an idiot I was. I was so frustrated and it was ridiculous.

I was so upset with myself. Anyway, did you have a story of something stupid that you've done that you wanted to show. I was gonna stick to the car, I guess so like back in college, like I used to, You know, in college, you stay up late, you do you know, assignments and stuff like that. And this is I don't remember what I was like eighteen nineteen years old.

So I used to live near the school and I drive home on like so i'd have class, let's say it, from like till like one, I'd go home and go back for like a class around three thirty, right, And so I was always dumb because like I'm like, what I'm gonna do at home after drive fifteen minutes. But like it's just like a it just feels good to go home for a little bit during the day and then like I'd be so sleepy though, so like I drive like i'd be tired, and I get home like

I had to go back. So one time, like I'm ranking front of the school. It's like a red light. And me, stupidly, when you're sleeping, you tell yourself a lot of things. I'm like, it's a red light. I'm gonna take a quick nap, I swear. So I'm like, I'm gonna take a quick nap for a second. So like so I should have put the car and break,

to be honest, but I didn't. I'm like, my foot's on the break, like I'm gonna know this light is no longer than two minutes, you know, So like I swear so like I closed my eyes for a second and like you don't know what's going on, so like and then like I wake up to a boom. I'm like, oh damnit. So this this is right in front of the school. And it's just hilarious because like the guy I actually ran into, he was like he's actually a teacher, which is funny, and he's he's like, yeah, what happened.

I was like, oh, I don't know, and so yeah, and it didn't mess his car but all like his car was fine. But yeah, that's one dumb thing. And I never did that again ever. I was like, I'm never ever ever going to try to close my eyes when I'm out of red life. It's sad because I was like riding in front of the school too, so that was a sad part about it. But dude, that's

completely hilarious. But I think, you know, I think that life has a way of putting you down sometimes to to kind of keep you even keeled and keep you like every time, like like it's I feel like this with basketball, Like every time I go on a stretch where for two weeks I'm just busting everybody's ass and

no one can guard me. I always have like a random bad day, and I feel like that's like the basketball gods were like saying, like you're not ship Jason, You're not sure, Like I feel like that's just part of the process. But like I that's hilarious because like I, well, I I have another one that I'll share on another day. But like I think that's just God's way, Nature's way, whatever you want to call its way of of just reminding us that we're not all that and we need

to we need to stay grounded. But anyway, roj, I really appreciate you taking over an hour today, um to hang out. And I guess Game two or Game four is tomorrow, so we'll plan on Thursday morning. For now, Thursday, let's do it all right. Thank you everybody for listening in. I will have the podcast version of this up shortly. Enjoy the rest of your day and we will see you on Thursday. Thanks everyone,