Episode 63: Lakers Offseason & NBA Finals

late at night. So during these non Lakers games, I think it's nice for you how to take a break and do some some stuff more naturally in the middle of the day. Rog. How you doing, man, how's your trip to Vegas? Did you have fun? Yeah? It was a lot of fun. Man. That was my second trip to Vegas in like three weeks, I think. So that's I think that's enough Vegas for me for at least a month. Um, that's more than enough, more than enough time living in hotels with casinos and smoke smell and

all those all those great things. Yeah, how was your trip to Mexico? I think that's cool. The hotter, the hot as you can imagine, everything's really cheap down there, which is nice. So it's a it's a fun place to take a cheap vacation. Did you bet on any of the games while you were in Vegas? I didn't know, because like the last time I was in Vegas, I bet on the Warriors Memphis UM playing game and I threw money on the Warriors and I said never, I

said never again. I'm done. I'm done. I'm not doing that again. Yeah, so that I'm good on that. I did a little bit of gambling over there, but that was it, um. And it couldn't been hotter than it was in Vegas. In Mexico, it's like hundred and ten in Vegas. Oh yeah, I'm not. It's it's the humidity is what gets you down there. But Vegas is at least you're inside most of the time. I mean, except when you're walking around on the trip. But anyway, so, uh,

let's go ahead and get started. So, guys, the game plan for today is we're gonna talk about last night's game a little bit um And then we had Roger and I had talked about how one of the main conversations that surrounded Lakers Twitter over the last few weeks has been this concept of, you know, the guys that are already on the roster from last year, guys like Andrew Drumming, guys like Dennis Schroder, guys like Alex Cruso

and so on. We picked five names, um, and we're gonna do a little game of will they stay or will they go and kind of give our thoughts as to why they might go one way or the other. Uh. And and we're not gonna talk about potential guys to add to the roster, just whether or not those guys will be coming back or not. But let's talk about

last night. So you know, for the record, in the answers to full disclosure, I I I bet that Phoenix would win against the spread, mainly just because I have a couple of philosophies with the NBA Finals that I've noticed over the years. Veteran players, older guys tend to

play better, uh in the finals. And even though the Sons are a younger team, their leader Chris Paul is an older player, so I had a feeling he would play really well, and I thought Milwaukee was gonna be a little shell shocked by their defense just how good Phoenix is defensively, because Phoenix is a much much better

defensive team than Atlanta. In Brooklyn, Um, I actually thought Milwaukee fared a little better offensively than I thought they would, although they still I haven't looked at their defensive rating or offensive rating, but I don't think they did uh terrifically. But it was a lot of the usual stuff we see with the Bucks. A lot of budden Holes are being stubborn with his coverage, is a lot of kind of kind of just tricking off a game through his

stubborn you know, philosophies, and and I thought that. But at the end of the day, if there was a game to do that, it was Game one, because I thought Phoenix was gonna get that one no matter what, what what what was your what was your like kind of overarching you macro takeaway from that game. Yeah, So on all the like shows that I've kind of talked on and stuff, they were asking like who would you pick? And I picked Phoenix in this series, and I picked

them also in Game one. I think it's gonna be a long series. But just the way budo Holes are kind of he reacts right, he doesn't he doesn't punch first he's similar to Vogel in that way. Um kind of even more than an extreme. Um. He he just watched as Trey Young drop forty eight in Game one and just said, we're gonna keep this going until until game two. And we saw that tonight. I thought, like

switching broke Lopez just so easily. Just giving up that switched so easily, Um was was going to be their downfall. In my opinion, Chris Paul Um Devin Booker got real comfortable early on, and later on they eventually went small with Portis. But at that time, like you know when a basketball player, once you get comfortable, like it's over. Chris Paul started hitting step back threes, started hitting contested, super contested jumpers like I just thought that the Suns

would win tonight. And that's that's the thing that I was kind of worried with Budenholzer. I don't think you can go down to this Sun's team. I think they're too well coached. I think they're too good. Um, I don't. I'm not sure that the best team left. Obviously that that can be debated. But just like the way they play that they have a really high floor, like they're not gonna make mistakes. They're really good defensively in transition, Um, they threw eight and on the honest, which I thought

they would do. I thought that was interesting. So I like them overall in this series. I don't think this is a huge disaster for the Bucks. But like we talked about it with all the Lakers things, you can't give away games in the playoffs, and I feel like they gave this one. They didn't give themselves a chance. You let Chris Paul do exactly what he wanted. He was comfortable. What's the point of having Drew Holiday if you just let Brook Lopez switch every time? I just

I don't understand the coverage there. So that was kind of my main my main takeaway from from a game one. Yeah, I'm I'm pro trying stuff to see what happens, but I think everything should have a game plan. Like, for instance, if you're the Lakers, Yeah, you're gonna default to going back to Davis at the five, but you're gonna try drum And at the five. You're gonna try Marcus All at the five because the idea is, hey, maybe we'll

be able to physically bully. Then the problem with the Bucks is like you knew that if you did a drop coverage with brook Lopez like they did kind of in the second half last night, or if you did a switching coverage with brook Lopez, you would be inviting Chris Paul and Devin Booker to get high quality shots. So the entire game plan from the beginning was doomed

to fail. Uh you know it, at the end of the day, if you're gonna try something, at least have a a semblance of an understanding of how it might work. And and and that's the thing, Like I I have always been against the drop coverage against elite guards and in favor of switching. But if you're gonna switch, you need to have players on the floor that can switch. And both Booker and Chris Paul were getting whatever they wanted against brook Lopez. In those switches, you're inviting them

into a comfort zone. And then you know, late in the fourth quarter, it's hard to say really whether or not it worked because at that point the Sons had gone into full game management mode. Just try to run the shot clock, you know, all that good stuff. But at the end of the day, you need to run uh, Janice at the five if you're gonna do that switching stuff. Portis was more physically aggressive like Portis was when in

those switches with ball pressure more. But any good ball handler is gonna inevitably get a big guy who's off balance reaching in. He's eventually going to get him off balance. And there was that textbook kind of sequence there in the third quarter where Chris Paul, you know, on a switch super you know, over zealous. Here comes Bobby Portas ball pressure and like crazy, and he just got him off balance and beat him to the basket for the

finger roll. And then you know he got he got Brooke Lopez on a step back three into a foul. And then so then they started trapping the pick and roll. And this is something you and I know from watching the Lakers. They're one of the few teams we've seen that can really trap pick and roll and cover on the back end really well. The Chris Paul started picking him apart there late third quarter when they started trapping

him on pick and roll. So it's like I think, I think at the end of the day, when you play someone like Brooke Lopez or or Bobby Portis against really really good guards, you're just asking for them to fail. And and even in the Atlanta series, I think at Trey Young's foot has to be kind of factored in as part of the reason Brookes succeeded later in the later in the series was Trey wasn't really a hundred percent, but I I just as as a strategy, I feel

like that's doomed against really good guards. Yeah, Like that was my biggest key to the series because I thought eventually Brooke would get played off like he's just there's no way he's gonna be able to contain. Chris Paul and Devin Book are different than Trey Young. They'll snake a pick and roll. They don't just go into that flooriter. They have the mid range game. They'll attack you at the ram, get contact stuff like that. That was the

biggest key here. Conportis and content play like as a small ball five, I thought they kind of picked on Britain Forbes as well. He's another guy that they really rely on. Um and that's mallball and can they do that? This is not a hobble Tray Young, hobbled Bogdanovich. Um, I don't even know Lou Williams, I guess is the others the other Atlanta guard. This is a different, uh kind of tier Chris Paul Jeffin Booker a level, different level of guards um than those three as they're as

they were injured. And also Campaign, I thought Campaign really attacked the basket. He gets to the rim, his speed, his man, his speed is a problem. He's hitting his catch and shoot threes as well, which I feel like it's just a cherry on the top. Those are just really issues for me for Milwaukee going into UM game, going into Game two. I guess a positive for them is that it's like honest, at least looks like okay, right,

he didn't look um. He didn't look like he was favoring his his foot at all kind of in game one. So I thought that was a positive for him for Milwaukee. But yeah, it's gonna be tough. I feel like you just can't give games away, and this is a team that's gonna be hard really to go back from UM.

So what like, So I guess if you're covering the Sun's like, what would what would your coverage b I guess with this Milwaukee roster, would you just go completely small and kind to try to trap and give up threes? To Jay Crowder and Michael Bridges, because I feel like that's kind of your option there. I saw people saying should hedge and kind of recover? That kind of opens the role for eight and right, and I think eight and also was like six for eight from the field

or something like that. So I'm wonder, like, what what what kind of poison would you pick? I guess if you're Milwaukee defending, or is it just play honest of the five and switch everything. I guess is that is that's your option. So similar to what you would see with the Lakers, where we would always say that when the chips are down, you go to a d at the five. At the end end of the day, the best coverage is to put your honest at the five

and switch everything. Because for the record, the switching worked in the sense that they the Sun's lived in isolation most of the night. Most of the action that they ran involved long, drawn out isolations with their guards, which is a win in a lot of ways because it's stagnsion like that game looks different if Chris Paul doesn't have as good of a game. And for the record,

Devin Booker wasn't exactly his most efficient self in that game. Uh, the trick is, you can't do that all forty eight minutes. So there are a couple of things that I would do. First of all, I thought Devin Booker's isolations against Brook Lopez were less successful than Chris Paul's. I though Chris Paul did better in that matchup. I thought Booker took some tougher shots in that matchup. He he had a couple that he made, but I thought Lopez actually didn't hold his own. But he was more of a of

an impediment to too Booker in those matchups. So in the minutes where Booker is on the floor without Chris Paul, that's probably where I'd play a little bit more Lopez. You know, Bobby Portis, at the very least, if he's ball pressuring and forcing a drive, it's a little easier to react with on the on the defensive end, because

at least it's predictable, Like predictability is everything. If you if you can at least get to Bobby Portis and be like, hey, ball pressure on these switches forced him to his left, then at least everything else on the back end with them rotate with their rotations are gonna are gonna be a little bit easier to to to kind of like everybody to kind of be connected and in the same on the same wavelength, you know, as far is a pick and roll coverage, I don't think

any form of traditional hedge and hedge and recover makes any sense anymore that I mean, you don't really even see much of that at all in the league these days. Uh. And one of the main reasons is like they're just setting the screen so far from the basket. If you've got a lumbering, big hedging at twenty seven feet, he's effectively out of the play when he starts trying to

run back. So at the end of the day, I would do I would try to eventually learn how to do some kind of trap uh and recover on the back end. It's a it's the most complicated and labor intensive defense, but if you can get it down, it can work, especially if you've got the athleticism they have, which the Bucks do have a good amount of of

defensive athleticism. But at the end of the day, when the chips are down, it's gonna come down to Janice at the five and switching rather than doubling and just making them isolate and hoping that over the course of the series, your bigger, more physical stars Middleton six eight, Janice x nine, you know, Drew Holiday a big, strong guard. You just hope that over the course of the series, those guys will physically look better and that guys like

Booker and Chris Paul will start to miss shots. I think you noticed that a lot in the Phoenix Clippers series, that the physicality of the Clippers and the as that series dragged on, Booker became kind of an inefficient score and part of the reason some people were saying the mask. Yeah, don't get me wrong, the mask bothers him. But physicality does wear on teams, and so I think that that

would be their their their long term best benefit. What so, uh, let's let's switch to the other end with with with the Bucks on offense. So, as I said before the game, I thought that the Phoenix Suns were a significantly better defense than anybody the Bucks had faced. And for the record, I looked at the numbers. Uh, Milwaukee was at one sixteen points per one hundre possessions in the regular season, the one four last night, which is kind of what

I expected. I typically speaking, elite offense, even the best offenses will struggle when they go up a level in terms of their defensive competition, not because they're not capable of scoring, but it's just an adjustment period. Like every pass that you made that was open, all of a sudden is a little less open. There's more ball pressure

got Michael Bridges and Jay Crowder and Kim Johnson. There just bigger, more athletic wings than they faced in these other rounds, And so from that and from that regard, I just think I thought there was gonna be an adjustment period. What was your takeaway from Milwaukee offensively? What do they need to do better in order to kind of uh put up a little bit more than a hundred four points per one hunder possessions. I think like Drew Holiday has to be better, and I feel like

him and Middleton are so like beast or famine. It feels like from game to game there's no like middle ground. It's either they play really well they play really poorly, and it's really tough to win that way. It's why these Milwaukee series I feel like, go so long. I thought, be honest, you're getting kind of consistent numbers throughout your getting as thirty as fifteen last night, I think he

played like thirty six minutes or something. But Drew, like his jumper is so up and down as well, and he loses confidence in it as well, like he'll catch it and like Pumpake, try to drive and he does. He's weird try to finish layups. I feel like he's better in the post. He should be like in the post a little bit more if they have Chris Paul on him and the Middleton I thought played a really good game last night, right, he had like twenty nine points.

I think Chris Middleton kind of kept them in the game with his jumper, but like, I don't know how much you can rely on that. That's kind of another reason why I kind of picked Peenis in this series. I trust their offense as well a little bit more. I just think Drew and Milton you're gonna get what they get from them. Their shots aren't changing. Drew's gonna get his catch and shoot threes. It cuttherly makes him. He's gonna have one or two good games in the series.

I think Middleton had one already. Midlton again as a guy, he'll have a good game and then he'll shoot like three for eleven the next night. So it's it's really tough to know. I think Drew Holiday was like two for eight um at halftime for like four points, and that's just not enough. They need his offense, especially with no de Vincenzo. They have like six to seven playable dudes. Um, it's really tough, Brook Lopez, I thought it had a

really good night scoring. But to me, I tweeted out, I feel like his scoring is such fool's gold because it just keeps him on the floor and it keeps it keeps those cards in rhythm. So he was, like I said, he had seventeen points. He was their leading score I think in the middle of the third quarter, and he was a minus seventeen. They're leading their worst plus minus however you want to say that, um, So I feel like that's where they're kind of either offen.

Then he Drew Holiday to have eighteen or twenty points at least to keep them afloat. Um. It's just too it's just too tough when they're really packing the pain on you. Honest Um, They're putting eighting on him and he got a couple where he just bullied him. He bullied you, honest, right at the rim. I mean he bullied eight and right at the rim. Um. He got a few foul shots, but I thought their overall coverage was on him was good. He had a few turnaround

jumpers as well. But yeah, I think it's mostly just I mean, sometimes basketball it's kind of simplified in that way. But Drew Holiday has to kind of shoot better with what did you see from Milwaukee on offense, So going down the line, Middleton reminds me a lot of Paul George in the sense that he gets his rhythm by taking joe shots, which is one of the main reasons why both of them have been inconsistent in their playoff careers.

They've had really good games and they've had really bad games. Um. One of the main reasons why Paul George had such a good postseason this year was because he made a commitment to get to the basket more, which is something that's kind of missing from Chris Middleton's game. He's he's he has a tendency to actively seek out jump shots and then take driving lanes when they're there, as opposed

to actively attacking the basket. And using your jump shot as a counter and uh, you know, and that that that'll be one of the big indicators of whether or not Paul George's kind of leveled up, as if in the future he continues to to to kind of have that priority. Well, Middleton got hot in the second half, but the game was kind of already out of reach at that point, which is one of the downsides of

building your rhythm by taking jump shots. If he gets his rhythm earlier in the game, by being more aggressive to the basket, he's more likely to make more shots early in the game, keep the keep them in the game. As far as Drew Holiday goes, like we've always known the same thing about Drew Holiday. His value comes in what he brings defensively. In terms of offense, he's not even a top you know what, probably not a top twenty guard in the league. Like he's just he's just

not a very good offensive player. And one of the problems is is really elite high end defense exposes flaws and offensive games. And you know, you know, the Lebron kind of tricks us in postseason history with his efficiency.

It starts Kevin Ray at Kyrie Irving, the vast majority of offensive players take a dip in offensive efficiency in the postseason just because of the amount of of physicality that's allowed, and because of how good the defensive defenses are, and because they have a tendency to ignore bad offensive

players and devote more attention to you. So a guy like Drew Holiday against a really good defense like Phoenix is going to be exposed as a guy who's not a knockdown shooter, who doesn't have a great mid range game, and who doesn't finish super well around the basket and traffic. That's just what's gonna happen, or or doesn't pass the ball super well or any of those, any of those limitations in his game. He's very average at all of those things. In a really good Phoenix defense is gonna

put him in a in a position where he's gonna struggle. Like, I don't know that you're going to hear a lot from Drew Holiday in this series, to be honest. Yeah, And I feel like that's a problem Milwaukee because they need his offense, Like he doesn't have to be some crazy score, but he has to hit his open threes. In my opinion, he has his open shots or he has to at least have some kind of post game, some kind of put pressure on the rim. It can't

just be honest putting pressure on the rim. You talked about Chris Milton does not put pusher on the rim. I thought he got a couple of drives where he thought he got fouled and all that stuff, got some contact, didn't get the call. But but still he's a guy, you're right, relies on his little mid range game, relies on the step back three. I think Drew Holiday relies on his jumper a little too much for like the

level of shooter he is. Um, he takes a lot of like he'll be in transition and take like a transition three, and I just feel like that's not his game. But it's just supported in this kind of Milwaukee ecosystem of how everyone takes threes except be honest, So I think they'll need is scoring. But you talked about his value being on defense. I mean, again, I just don't see the point of that. When they're switching everything anyway, so then they can just get Drew off and whenever

they want. And again, I feel like he should be going over the top, should be fighting whatever. I put some kind of back pressure. But again on offense, like it's gonna be tough for them to kind of keep up kemp kempat Connaton, Can Brent Forbes have some kind of really good game. Um, I feel like their their their light is a little too green for me. Like Pat Connaton and Brint Forbes. Those dudes take terrible shots where they're not even close to open. They'll get hot

from time to time. It's just like Milwaukee's on a huge run last night. I remember they cut it too seven. Brent Forbes got it in transition twenty seconds left on the shot clock, wonderable one leg fade away hit hit almost the side of the backboard. I'm like, man, it's just there's no there's no offensive kind of rule here, and it's your honest as well. Cutting to the room made it worse. So that's what I'm worried about with them on offense. I think they'll kind of figure it out.

I think you honest will play better, even more aggressively as the series goes on. But I think that's where that's where he that's where Monkey has to go. The role not role players, but Drew Holiday and Chris milton't have to play better. Did you like what Phoenix did with the Honest, like putting eighton on him, um, and then kind of swarming him with Jake Crowden mckel bridges and then a kind of daring I guess Drew Holiday to beat them. I feel like they kind of left

him open a little bit more. That's been the coverage that most teams have used against the Honest this year. Has put a center on him, had the center kind of beat him to the spot, force him to spin back, and then send help from his weeks side because he

doesn't see the floor super well. Um. In general, I do like that one of the ways that Milwaukee's counter debt is like really clearing the side, kind of overloading the weak side with shooting from the where where what works there is if you want to abandon a shooter. It's so like kind of unorthodox to go that far away from your matchup that it kind of throws defenses off.

And they had a lot of success against Brooklyn posting him up on that you know, left block and then overloading that side and where at least if he spun back there just wasn't as much help. Um. I think that's gonna be their primary uh thing that they go to is the honest kind of gets his legs back underneath them. I thought he was just kind of a little rusty too in general. Um, really quickly, one of the things that you had mentioned a minute ago that

I thought was interesting. You know, what's the point of having a guy with the defensive value of Drew Holiday if if you can just kind of switch him off using a screening action and now he's standing you know, in a in a shell drill elsewhere on the floor. Well, this is gonna go into you know, after the season's over, you and I are gonna do a variety of podcasts. One of them will probably be some sort of player ranking type of deal, and you know, similar to what

I did last summer. Like I've always said that, you know, super elite high end offense carries a great deal more value than super elite high end defense. Not to say that the defensive end isn't important, because it is, but when it comes down to these types of games, that individual offensive talent brings more value because you can get

a defender off the play. Like I'll never for the best example ever, several years ago, James Harden uh uh, lit up the Spurs in game one of a playoff series because Kauai was guarding his matchup, which was Ryan Anderson, and they just had Ryan Anderson stand ft from the basket on the week side, like because he took so many deep threes, and Kauai spent the entire game standing at the three point line and and they were able

to kind of scheme him out. Now, over the course of the series, the Spurs figured them out and they ended up winning. But that's kind of an example of what I'm talking about. At the end of the day, defense is much more of a five on five type of sport than than the offensive end is. On the offensive end, it's it's so much more about what an individual can do. And I think that's what makes that difference.

And and guys like you know, uh, you know, when you look at Chris Middleton, you might think he does all the stuff Kobe does, right, Like, you think, oh, he does all these turnaround jump shots. He's got all the off the dribble moves from the perimeter. He's a tough shot maker, he's a contested shot maker. That's great. But Kobe, at the end of the day, was a relentless rim attacker and everything was built off of that.

And that is the difference for him. And that's what everyone always asks, Like I see it on the timeline every time Middleton's going off, is Middleton the best player on the Bucks? Is Middleton the Alpha? And and you know, uh, the honest is the Robin? But then when he's playing bad, everyone's like, what's up with Middleton? I don't know why? Why is he so inconsistent? It's literally that simple. He is a he is a jump shooter that when he's in rhythm, he looks like one of the best players

in the world. And when he's not, he looks like a guy who's crumbling under the pressure. That that's literally all that. That's the the that huge chasm between him and the top you know wings that we see in the league has to do with their their willingness to attack the rim. Yeah, and I think that also that opens everything else up to right, like when you drive to the rim, you can become a playmaker, you can get to the you can get to the line. Like

he impacts the game pretty much. One way. It's with his scoring, right is I'm shooting. Basically, he doesn't get to the line, doesn't doesn't play make for others. So basically, if you stop if he's not shooting, well, he's not impacting the game. And I think that's what the difference between it. People were asking last night, Um, how much better is Middleton than Devin Booker, Like are they on

the same tier kind of thing? In my opinion, no, I think Devin Booker impacts the game a variety of ways. Even if his jump shots not going, He's still get into the line. His playmaking has gone so much better. The way Phoenix relies on him is just so different than just with his scoring. So I think I think that's that's true. One really quick thing I wanted to say because like I feel like people think, like I'm not saying you say this, but like most people think

you honest at the five just answers everything right. And I feel like there are some downsides to it, especially when you have Eaten out there. I feel like it really hurts your offensive rebounding, um, and they can really get I thought Eaton got a bunch of offensive rebounds as well. And on thing like, it's funny you compared him to a d I feel like Milwaukee doesn't want him on like the other star kind of perimeter players

like you saw that. They didn't want him on k D. I don't think he switched on Trey Young very much. They like him as the help defend. That's why I don't think they go to Jannice at the five as much best A. Oh yeah, for sure, But I feel like in this kind of series, you need him to be on Chris Paul and Devin Booker like I don't.

I don't think you can win this series of Bobby Reporters and and Brook Lopez defending these cards as much as they're going to, like, I feel like you have to have be honest at least to slow down whichever one is hot at times. But they love him as a health defender and that's understandable. He's really great at that. But uh yeah, I just think that there are some weaknesses to going honest at the five, But I do agree with you that that that's probably the best option here.

One of the things that's triky with that is I don't necessarily think you honest is that great of an individual defender, especially against shifty guys like you saw this spot in the Milwaukee series and just in general over the last few years when Durant and Uh and Uh you honest would get matched up, he's susceptible to shiftiness and he's susceptible to speed. Um that that's not to say that he's not a bad individual defender, because he's not. His length and athleticism makes up a gap in a

lot of ways. But you know, you know, we all see we all remember like the All Star Game a few years back, where he had some success as an individual defender against Lebron Um. But part of the reason for that is Lebron at this age is he's never been that shift e of a guy, and at this age he's a little bit more of a bullieball type of guy. So yeah, he's gonna be good in those

types of matchups. But the reality is is against guys like Kevin Durant who are super shifty, and guards like Booker and and Chris Paul, he's just not super laterally quick. And then anticipation is a big part of it. One of the reasons why Lebron is such a good perimeter defender at every position is he's got great anticipation. He's good at just kind of guessing which direction the guy

is gonna go, and Lebron is very laterally quick. It was actually his big point of emphasis before the season that they won the title, and he said so in in uh in an interview, and then there's a lot of footage out there of him working with his trainer on lateral quickness, a lot of big slide steps and jumps and things along those lines. That kind of thing takes. It's it's not just a natural ability. It is partially to some extent, but a lot of it is, you know,

a dedication in that regard. And I think one of the reasons why they want you on us off the ball is that's actually where his value is at its best. Like p J. Tucker is, this is a significantly better perimeter defender as a laterally quick guy taking slide steps and guessing and and being physical without foiling than you,

honest is I think that's why they go that route. Yeah, I agree, And and just your point with p J. Tucker, I think it kind of goes to your like where offense matters more than defense, because I feel like p J. Tucker is almost um player. He's probably he's a better defender than Brent Forbes than pat content, but he just can't shoot right now. He just can't make a corner three, and it's making him almost unplayable. So it's kind of interesting when you look at it. I feel like you

have to be able at least hit an open shot. Nowadays, we'll get into this more and like the summer, I guess the real summer, but like, I feel like defensive players now have to at least hit a corner three, and if you can do more than that, like Michael Bridges, you're gonna get paid like a low tiers star, like

in my opinion, he's about to get paid. So it's just interesting the way the NBA kind of moves because I fee guys like Andre Robertson who couldn't hit outside of the two feet, got four years eighty three, like four years ago, but now those players are being more and more extinct where he's not. He's I think, back healthy, but he still can't really get a role on the team because he can't shoot at all, even if his

defense is at a top tier levels. I think it's interesting to kind of look at that, well, Michael, this is so out of left field, But Michael Bridges, like the it kind of reminds me of football when when you have a really talented roster and uh and you draft a really good quarterback and for the for that three year four year window, you have this inexpensive quarterback that's carrying a whole lot of weight relative to the roster, and so you can devote more money to the position

players and then you're really good in that in that stretch. But then you pay the quarterback big money, and all of a sudden you have to uh to to you know, cut back on what you pay the skill positions, and you end up suffering talent wise. Well, that's what kind of reminds me with the Sun situation right now. They're they got Michael Bridges on a rookie contract. That dudes a twenty million dollar a year player, like he's that good.

And the reality is is like when they signed Michael Bridges, it's either gonna cap strap them everywhere else or they're gonna end up having to let him go because he signed some gigantic offer sheet from some other team. It's just the harsh reality of the way that you know, like when we're when we're in the off season, there's actually a good chance to to transfer. Uh here in

a minute. But like, the reality is is in the off season, it's it's easy to be like, you know, for guys like me to complain and be like, the Lakers need more skill, but really, the best way to have skill when you're cap strapped is to have a young prospect like a talent Horton Tucker, who unfortunately is gonna get paid this summer but unfortunately for him, but

unfortunately for the Lakers cap situation. But the reality is is you need young players on rookie contracts making you know, jack shit nothing relative to what their talent is in order to kind of feel the fill those gaps, which is why there is some value to draft picks, you know, and things along those lines. Really quickly, before we move on to the Lakers, just give me your pick for how the series is going to end, uh, you know, in a few sentences based on what you saw last night. Yeah,

and really quickly. Eight And also it's not a rookie deal, so like exactly just think about this going. But I have I have the sun. I picked the Sons in six even with the honest healthy So that's I'm just gonna stick to that. I think Milwaukee probably wins Game two, but from there I trust money to kind of pick and choose the lineups a little better than a coach bud. And that's where I see this going. How about you. I think the Bucks win Game three and that's all

I win. I think Phoenix is significantly better on both ends of the ball. I think they're better defensive team and a better offensive team. I think that uh game five back in Phoenix, the close out game will be an opportunity for the Suns to remember the way they kind of tricked that game off against the Clippers, and I think they'll attack it. And also it's a little bit different in those close out games with the home crowd.

If if the true if he's at steak, like the Lakers tricked off Game five against the against the heat Um. Part of the reason, in my opinion, was because of the lack of a crowd. If that's a Game five in Staples Center to close out the heat people Larry ob sitting in the tunnel, I think they win that game. You know, there's a difference in your effort there, So I expect I expect the Suns to play better. So we're gonna try to get Ros out of here in the next ten minutes. So we're gonna do a little

bit of a rapid fire type of deal here. Um, we're gonna name the player. I'm gonna have you tell me whether or not you think they're gonna stay or they're gonna go. And why our first player is Alex Crusoe. I think he's gonna stay. Um, I just feel like the market isn't gonna like He's gonna get probably like a ten million dollar deal, and I think the Lakers

are going to keep him for that. He's going to be their priority number one in my opinion, Um, in this in this offseason, he's a guy that they've developed like themselves. Like he played in the G League for the Lakers, and then he got called up and then slowly by sure he became a starter in the NBA Finals game. Just a guy that you can't lose for nothing in my opinion, even if he's just kept a trade, which I don't think he is. Um, Laker fans, don't kill me, but like he's I think he's kept. I

think he's kept on the team. What about you, You think he's back. I think he's back as well. I think uh. I think he wants to play with lebron Um. I think he understands. I think I think he genuinely

has no interest in playing for any other team. I think it would take a gigantic financial chasm between what he would get elsewhere, which, for the record, based on how he played when everybody went down with injury this year, not that he was bad by any stretch of the imagination, but he doesn't look like a fifteen million dollar a year guard. So I think the I think the Lakers will be able to offer him a slight discount over

what he would get somewhere else. And I think he'll end up signing with the Lakers, And I think it's a good partnership. And and I think that when healthy, he's one of the most valuable role players in the league, when he's surrounded by guys who can do the heavy lifting for him offensively, Um, Calent, Horton, Tucker. I also think he's back. I'm nervous on the number he kind of gets Um, but I feel like it's going to be tough for a team to just throw ten fifteen

million dollars a year at him. But he's a clutch guy. He's a guy, another guy that they've put a lot of time into developing. We talked about it. I think he was like the second the third most important part of the season, just like the way that the season went, they got developed battle minutes for him. I think he'll be back. Um, he's a restricted free agent, so those are a little bit more tricky for other teams to throw money at because it kind of caps you for

like three or four days. I think he'll be back. I think they'll they'll come at to a number that that makes sense for me. Yeah, I think he'll be back as well, if nothing else, out of pride, because they clung to him as a trade during the trade at that point, like if you let him walk over a few million bucks, speak after you after you refuse the d l M. I think I think that that that starts to raise questions from the ownership, and that

starts to range raise questions from the fan base. Uh, the questions that I don't think Rob wants to deal with. So I think he'll be back based purely on that. Also, I'm you know you and I had a difference of opinion with talent Norton Tucker this year just in his value within this season, But I think you and I are on the same page long term with him. I really do see him as a as a as a

player that has a very high ceiling. I believe in his work ethic and once again, every single game he gave you this taste of this superstar type of talent. In in the close out game against Phoenix, it was that you know, uh fourth quarter tip slam that was just absurd, you know, for for like for a guy of uh, you know, in that environment. And and so at the end of the day, I think I think

he's back, regardless of the number. At this point, you're just praying that there's not some stupid GM out there. You know. Was that rumor that came out a few weeks ago that of some Eastern Conference GM who said that they would offer talent Norton Tucker the max. I think, I think anytime these gm start talking to reporters anonymously, I take it with a grain of salt. There's also

god knows what kind of leverage campaign that is. It could be Rich Paul literally just you know, b Essen to try to to try to raise his value, give the impression of some sort of of competitive market for him. But I think I think they'll they'll they'll let him go out there, and my guesses he'll go out there and and sign some offer sheet and then the Lakers will match match it and hopefully no more than fifteen million a year. But we'll see that's high. That would

be the high. That would be the high end. Where like, but here's here's the thing, man, Like, between you and me, Let's say it's a four year, sixty million dollar deal. Chances are in that third and fourth year, he's probably he's probably gonna be worth more than fifteen millions. Guy, he's he's he's got elite two way off guard written all over him as as as his uh ceiling um. Next one is Dennis Shooter. So Dennis is the one where I'm so confused on what his market is because

I think we talked about it. I think he had a good year. Um, but then you know, those six games are hard to get out of your head. Even though, like I feel like Game two, Game three are forgotten in the ABYSS because the Lakers won those games and he played really well. It's just when you go, oh, for not in a playoff game, it really sticks on you. I don't know where he's going. Like I feel like the Lakers should bring them back because they can't replace

his money. Like you don't. You don't lose Dennis Shooter. I think you can spend on you know what you lose is for I think he'll be back. But he's one of the ones where I'm really questionable. If some if, like some bad team was like, hey, we got a starting point guard for the next few years that's above average. Maybe he gets that this one. I'm not sure. What

do you what do you think? So at the end of the day, some team out there is going to talk themselves into the fact that Dennis can help them and uh, and they're gonna know to get in the bidding war, they're gonna have to pay an amount of money. Dennis at his best this year was good. He was good defensively as a ball pressure, point of attack guard. Um. He was good as a passer in a way that I didn't even think he could be coming into that season.

He clearly learned from his role and time spent around lebron Um. And then you know, he had big moments in the playoffs too. He had terrible moments in the playoffs, but in the two wins that they had, he was really good. Um, someone's gonna talk themselves into it. I think that there will probably be a walk away from the table number for the Lakers. If you're what you have to hope for as a Lakers fan is that that shell shock from what happened in two thousands sixteen

where so many players got overpaid. We'll just get people to be a little bit more frugal, and that he ends up coming back to the Lakers hoping, you know, for something in that you know, four years a d type of range. But at the end of the day, if it's four years eighty gets Dennis, you gotta take him at Lakers because it's it's it's a talent exchange that you can't afford to lose. It's a tradeable contract

at that number. And even if talent, like one of our comments in the in the in the stream says, what if we pay Dennis all this money only to realize talent Horn Tucker is better midway through next season, that's a good problem. You can as your trade your trade dennists and you play t h D. It's not

that's a good problem. But at the end of the day, you got you gotta bring him on as a trade asid the only thing that gets tricky is all the intel out there that the Bus family doesn't technically have all that much money, and that when you get into correlative to other owners, and that when you get into a situation where when you get into a situation where you're paying luxury tax, which is something that the Lakers are gonna be dealing with in future seasons, it's a

lot easier for a Bomber to just cut the check than it is for for Genie Buss. And and that I would be interested to know what kind of conversations are taking place behind the scenes between Rob and UH and Genie about what their budget is, because if they're willing to overpay, then you gotta you gotta overpay, especially I think the two year window with Lebron. Yeah, and I think they will. I mean, when you have Lebron on your team, that's just you know, that kind of changes.

You're kind of spending not just from what you're earning, but also you're spending power. Like It's just that's what Lebron does to a team when he comes there. Cleveland a luxury tax exactly Cleveland. Al he almost took Cleveland's business with him, you know when he walked out the door, like that's how that's how much he kind of interacts it. And although also like, when you have this type of star power, you have to spend. And I think they will.

They were in the luxury taxs, I think when they were putting out lineups warning like twenty games a year and stuff like that, I'm sure. I'm sure they will. Yeah, it's interesting to think about he was asking. I think I think the Lakers offered him four years eighty four or something in the middle of the season. He didn't take it. I kind I think that's where they'll end up at some number around there, and I can live

with that. I'll be good with that. Um. Two more alright, next one is Andre Drummond and I think you and I probably yeah. I think he's done his time in Los Angeles, like I think, and I think the way he's talking as well, it kind of sounds that way as well, just what he's been tweeting lately. He wouldn't come back on the minimum is what he said, But I feel like that's his market anyway. Um, I think that experiment was tried, and I feel like you can find other minimum bigs to be out there. I said

it before. I'm higher. I think on what he could have brought to a healthy Laker team, Like I don't think this team was ever healthy enough. But I don't know. I think I'm done with the Drummond experience and I feel like every game was just a conversation on Andre Drummond. All the spaces we did, all anyone wanted to talk about was why is Andre Drummond playing? Why is he Why is he in the game? But what is he doing?

Why is he missing layups? I just think his his time has kind of come to it, and I think, uh mean that's good for both sides. What do you think? So I agree, I think he's gone. I think it comes down to the cap situation. Um, the reality is is the Lakers can't offer anything other than the tax paaramid level exception or the veteran minimum contract. Uh, He's

not going to take a minimum contract. I don't think I would say that there's a near one percent chance that somebody out there in the thirty teams will offer him their mid level mid level exception. So the only way the Lakers could get him is by offering in the mid level exception and no team offering more than that,

because I do think he would chase the money. The question becomes, and this is something that Pete from Laker Film Rooms kept talking about, do you take Drummond at the mid level exception in place of a like an inferior wing, meaning like, do you is it worth letting drum and go to chase a guy who can allegedly shoot because they need shooting, but he's actually not that good of of a of a wing, you know what

I mean? And and there's there's a there's cases to be made on both sides that, but my guess is that the Lakers will have the pick of the best mid level exception type of guys and they'll end up actually signing a quality wing shooter. That's my guests And so from that regard, I think Drummond will end up

taking the middle level exception elsewhere. But if things shake out, the one scenario where he returns is all he gets is the m l E from the rest of the league, and the Lakers can't find a good shooter, so they take Drummond as just like a fallback plan. That's kind of the way I see it. But his attitude is so trash to me. And you know, this is something Naples has been on the past few weeks and and

our friend Damon has been on as well. Like the Lakers, you know, their whole brand is this like blue collar type of hard working type of team where Frank Vogel just tells the truth to his players. Hey you're playing to that, Hey you're not blah blah blah blah. The whole thing with Rob Blinkl promising him a starting job was weird. It's it's something that had no business doing, and I don't want to I hope they never go

down that route again. And Drummond seems like the kind of guy who's more interested in that than he is and and kind of melding in with the locker room, so I don't necessarily think it's worth keeping him unless the cards really break, right. Yeah, I agree with all that. And also it's like a use of your resource, allocation of your resources, right, Like I thought this year was a special year because of a short off season. I was fine giving the mid level to like Montres Harrold,

who was a regular season player. It was kind of known he was a regular season player. He would fill innings. Um next season is back to a normal season. I would like us use that on a player that can play in the playoffs, you know, I feel like that. I think that's more important than using that on you know, like Andre Drummond, who even if he came back at some deal, he'd be you know, he's like the third string center you have, I think Davis Who's gonna play

center in the playoffs. So what's the point of using that much of your Your really only thing you can leverage to a free agent is that offer that tax player m L e um and use that Andre Drummond would just be an awful use of resources in my opinion. So uh yeah, good luck to Andre Drummond. So our last name on the list is Kyle Kuzma. I think ka Kuzma will be thrown in every single trade conversation the Lakers are in. He's really there only like him and KCP I guess are there like making mid money

that they can offer. Since THHD is a free agent, as Custer free agent, that's the only guys that you can really offer. So I feel like he played so bad in the playoffs, that like he's going to be back because it's gonna be hard to move him. Him in the first round pick is really their only offers. Uh, I think he'll be back, though it's just my gut feeling. I think he'll be on the team next year. What do you think. I think it's possible that he's on

the team next year. This one, i'm more kind of my guests going to my head if I had to pick, is that he'll be traded in the off season. A couple of a couple of reasons why. First of all, he's got a perfect tradeable contract. He plays in a role where some GM out there is going to convince themselves that he can be better in a bigger role. Uh, there's gonna be a team out there that could probably use a wing score type of bench, kind of like

microwave type of dude. Um, it's important for both of us because I know you and I are on the same page here to say that Kuzma had a good season in terms of the way he played in the regular season. However, he had a horrible series against Phoenix, and if he plays even remotely capable or close to what he played in the regular season. That's probably a more competitive series than it was there at the end. Um, I think it's worth acknowledging that Kyle Kuzma has limitations

in his game. He's similar to a uh Middleton Paul George type of dude that he actively seeks to build his rhythm by taking jump shots. Um, He's got a little bit of a low offensive basketball, a queue that causes him to take tough jump shots to build his rhythm instead of building his rhythm with easy jump shots, which is what makes him inconsistent and what makes him

capable of going into long slumps. You know, more more than likely, I think the Lakers will be active in the trade market this year to try to bring in a high level shot maker, and they can't do it through a sign and trade, which means they're gonna need to use a mid level contract because I assigned trade with hardcap the Lakers, which would be at a suicide mission this year because it limits what they can do

around him. UM. So, from that standpoint, I think that more than likely he gets thrown into a trade as a like kind of like a salary filler type. I think he is an asset for the record, I think I think that the I would probably bet that the vast majority of NBA GM's view him as a positive asset at the number that he's at, and he was on an extremely deep team that didn't have a ton of minutes or opportunity for him. Other teams out there are going to have more, um So I think I

think that he'll get thrown into a trade. Someone will value him. I I'm in another pod you and I will dive into what those trades might look like. But my gun, in my head, my guess is that he gets traded. Yeah, definitely. I feel like he could be. I feel like he might be a guy that's probably easier trade at the trade deadline. I'm thinking, just easier to kind of move when when team are kind of

decided on whether this season has gone. You know, at the beginning of the year, everybody thinks they have a chance to win, and then once the season goes on, you can kind of It's kind of like the Lou Williams deal. He reminds me of that Lou was making like eight million dollars a year. KU's I think it's

like twelve point six or something like that. He's like I never would have thought Lou Williams would be like a primary ball handler in the conference finals after that trade what he almost retired remember, Yeah, and and again it's like to your point where offense is is is that such a high premium that like Lou Williams, even though I think this is part of the problem with Philly, and I guess you can get into that another time. But like, also Philly not beyond to take advantage of

Lou Williams. But again, an offense is such a premium. He became so important and he won them. He was part of the reason they beat Philly, like, he had huge games. So it's interesting to look at that. But yeah, I think Kuzma's Kuzma can be talked into. Um. I think he's a good player. I think you know that I'm hiring on him than most people. Um. But it's just an awful series and that's hard to get out

of people's heads. So we'll see. But yeah, I think it was a short It was a short series two like in terms like like I shouldn't even say short story short, playoff run. He didn't have a lot of opportunity really quickly before we get you out of here because I know you need to go. We had a question from the comments, would you prefer a more traditional wing player over Kuzman, like PJ. Tucker or Robert Covington' That's that's hard on this. I'm interested to see what

you think. I don't know, Like, what do you mean by traditional, Like just a guy who just shoots the traditional veteran wing like a p J. Tucker Robert guy who defends and knocks down open shots some of the time, like a thirty open three point shooter who's a pretty good, too above average defensive player. Yeah, I mean I feel like that's what Kuzma is supposed to be though, right in this role. That is right now, I think right now, and you're not getting those guys for the money that

I think Kuzma is making either. I mean, maybe you can get p J. Tucker, but he's like thirty five. I mean, it's hard to really rely on him as well in that I don't rather just keep Kuzma, to be honest, Robert Covington went for two first round picks last last year. I mean, so it's any makes I think like sixteen seventy million dollars a year so it's gonna be it's gonna be tough to get him get him on there, So you I'd rather just keep Kuzma honestly, Yeah,

me too. The one of the things that I think people don't realize is like it's really easy after a series like that to be like, oh, Kuzma sucks. Kuzma sucks. Uh, guess what, man like I get. P J. Tucker and Robert Covington both have many playoff series on their record that we're worse than what Kyle Kuzma did. Okay, Like the point is is like, when you are a role player, uh, and you have limited opportunity offensively, and you've played enough

playoff series in your career, you're gonna have stinkers. So I don't I don't think that's a problem. I think I think the Lakers when it comes to these trade targets, need to be more aggressive for a shot maker, high end offensive skill player type of deal, like in the mold of a Spencer Dinwoodie. And we'll get more into

that later. And I don't think Spencer is going to be available for the Lakers, but that's the type of player that the Lakers need to be looking at a c J mccollumn, Like if the Blazers end up blowing it up, anybody that's in that here that's not really considered a star, but that's a high end shot making offensive player. Those are the kinds of guys that you need to be thrown a Kyle Kuzma type of dude at,

because the reality is is that the PJ. Tucker, Robert Covington, you get that from Wesley Matthews, and Wesley Matthews is available at three million a year. So you know, like at the end of the day, you you have to understand that that the value for what Kuzma brings, it

needs to be directed. And I agree with you. I think right now, if I had to choose strictly for defending and knocking down open shots, I think I'd probably take Kyle Kuzma over Covington, or at least in the same tier as a Covington and p JA Tucking player. You know, he's not as good defensively as a p J. Tucker, but he's close and and I would argue that Kuzma is a better help defender than both of those guys, or maybe not not as good as Covington, better than PJ,

So I'm with you. I think I would keep Kuzma in that regard, but we gotta get you out of here. I really appreciate you taking uh an hour out of your morning. Roger and I are back from vacation, so we'll try to get back into a good rhythm of doing two or three DS a week. Actually, I think we're gonna do one after every game of this series. In that case, Friday morning. Yeah, yeah, Friday morning. Let's do it cool. All right, Thank you everyone. I'll have

the recording of this on our podcast speed shortly. Rogs. Have a gooday at work, man, I'll see you later. Appreciate you guys. Thanks