Episode 62: Conference Finals Breakdown, Ben Simmons

my initial takeaway about you. I'm not really sure, to be honest, Like, I feel like if they keep playing brook Lopez, we'll get into it. But like I feel like Trey Young kind of does exactly what Brook Lopez and the Milwaukee but regular defense gives up. It's it's kind of an interesting clash there where Buddha Holzer is really going to have to change his his theories like what he originally likes to do, so I think he'll be fascinating. I don't think this Hawks team is like

you know, some this is some fake run. I think they're legit. I think they have a lot of talent even with that with the guys they're injured. So yeah, well, we'll kind of get into it. Yeah, So I thought the entire game swung on an adjustment from Mike Buddenholzer to to start switching screen and roll, which obviously required

them to take Brook Lopez out. But I tweeted during the game, you can't run any sort of of drop coverage against really high end ball handlers, whether that's a you know, a Trey Young or or a Lebron or anybody like that. Anybody that can either pass really well out of screen and roll or shoot really well at a screen and roll. Anybody that's that's high end in

that regard. And it's funny that teams even try it, Like, why would you even go into that game and say, hey, let's just see how this goes when we already know how that's gonna go. And I think they were hopeful that that Drew Holiday would be able to kind of chase over the top and bother Trey Young from behind. But what they don't realize is as good as Drew

Holiday is, Ben Simmons is better. In one of the ways that Trey Young adjusted to that last series was to try to get ahead his team off of that screen, Like as soon as he got that first bit of separation takes a really hard dribble to get that space, and that's how he adjusted to Ben Simmons and and all of a sudden, it was just all day long, just floating floater, floater, blah blah blab and Milwaukee couldn't

do anything with it. And then as soon as they switched to that switching scheme, all of a sudden, he was jacking up bad threes. And really Atlanta stole that game on the strength of that crazy and one he had and like ah and uh, like an offensive rebound put back from John Collins and a couple crazy like that multiple offensive redound play that ended in the John Collins corner three. Like they really stole that game even though they weren't getting anywhere near his high quality shots

in the half court there at the end. Yeah, So, like, I guess we can kind of start with the beginning of the game. So I felt like Trey just consistently

attacked brook Lopez and that drop coverage. He just kept getting to that floater and I'm looking here a brook Lopez was a minus four teen tonight in a in a three point game, then kind of showed a lot um like I feel like when you get let a guy like Trey Young just get in rhythm like that, it's tough to slow down as the game goes on, right Like, even as a person who's who's played, like

you let a guy just feel that good. He felt he looks so comfortable out on the floor, Like he looked like he knew exactly what he wanted to do. Um And I love how he kind of uses the other, like the defense's physicality against them, right Like, I feel like he did that to Drew Holiday a lot tonight. Drew's a real physical defender that really gets into you,

and he really uses them against them. He got those kind of Trey Young fouls tho those ones that the league is going to look at, but like he got a field of those and it it really kind of loose in him up and he got a he got to the free throw line a couple of times, And I feel like you just can't let them get that comfortable. Um what do you see there? Like, like, do you think they can continue to start brook Lopez um in

going on into Game two? So again, I mean maybe if you want to try it in the uh in the non train minutes that's one thing. It's just a matter of the way they want to attack. Like, so what we learned from that Clippers Jazz series was that the only way that the or the way that is switching defense degrades the game and turns it into a one on one contest. If you can't win those matchups,

you're gonna struggle. And when they go to that all five at the Jannie at the five lineup, it's like, you want to try on your honest be my guest, You want to try Drew be my guest, You want to try p J. Tucker be my guest. You want to try Chris Middleton be my guest. Your best bet is maybe Pat Commerton, And even he will is not exactly just a sieve that's gonna let you go right around him every time. So it's one of those things. And Reggie Miller actually called it out at one point.

He said, Trey cannot get by through holiday and one on one, and so they would get him into those screening actions use his over aggressiveness against him. Like you said, he actually did get that crazy and one on that the third or fourth to last play of the game. But I tend to think that the brook Lopez stuff. Any time you have him on the court, you're gonna have to run the traditional pick and roll coverage and Trey is just gonna pick you apart in those moments.

So it feels like, you know, giving an advantage to Atlanta that you don't have to give them, if that makes sense. No, Yeah, for sure. It's cool to watch kind of the adjustments to the adjustments and like what you kind of have to give and take. Right, So they took brook Lopez out, Joanna's went to the five. Jana's got a bunch of lobs. But I feel like the gift there is now like you give up a lot of offensive rebounds, right, Like, I feel like that kind of the Atlanta back in the game as well.

Now Janice is the main health defender and then you have of you know, p J. Tucker is the biggest guy left, but him had a bunch of guards trying to you know, I think Capella is the best offensive rebounding big in the league in terms of like percentage. And you have also Collins as well, a real athletic dude. So it's just like a fun kind of back and forth. That's why I think Atlanta can definitely win this series.

I just think like their matchups even with Bugnanovich, who I guess we can talk about later, but like mcdonovitch not looking like himself even without Hunter. They yeah, he does not look comfortable out there, but they just have

a lot of like problems they give them. And then try Young is just a different Obviously, Kevin Durant is the best player probably in the playoffs that was left, but try Young is just a different type of animal there where he's attacking you purely on ball strings and your rotations have to be kind of crisp every time,

and his flutter game just going at you. I just think it's like a fun kind of adjustments, uh, the adjustments back and forth, and coach Bud always has you know he's getting He gets a lot of flak for not making them, so I think it's funny. Like people are yelling honest at the five. I just think like, yeah, that's probably the best option. But there are also things, right that you have to give up when you put

him there. Well depth too, you can put him there all game long, right the the you you mentioned the offensive rebounding, which is key, like when you're when you're attacking and switching defense. You could do it on the ball through isolation and attacking matchups, but you can also do it off the ball in offensive rebounding and the

two the two last, the last two baskets. The last two made field goals Atlanta had were an offensive rebound, multiple offensive rebounds that led to the John Collins corner three. And then on the final play, when clinck Apella had the offensive remount put back, he sets the ball screen out at half court on Drew Holiday, they switch it. Janice is there. Janice is a bit slow to get out there and switch, and he meets him at the free throw line rather than at the three point line,

so Trey gets a head of steam. Trey uses the head of steam to get to one of his floaters, but immediately after setting the screen, click Appella just turned and sprinted to the rim. If you watch the replay, it's pretty remarkable because Drew Holiday, it doesn't see it coming. Drew Holiday just kind of hugs onto Clinton just kind of way to half court. Clint Hella just sprints to the rim from half court and gets the offensive rebound

put back that literally won the game. And and again, that's that's not just a dude miss a box out. That's a way to attack a switching defense. If the Clippers used to do that all the time with Montrese when you would get they try to get Lebron or a d switched out onto one of their wings, and then montrez a just bully whoever is under the basket

to try to get offensive rebounds. It's it's one of the best ways through attack a switching defense is if you have size, just bury yourself under the rim and get lots of offensive rebounds. Yeah, and to your point, Capella had four offensive rebounds, Collins had five, and it feels like they got a bunch more just like tip outs and you know, just a bunch of second chance points there. And I think that's like the that's the

thing you have to give up. But I think that's the only thing they can really go to their Middleton really struggled tonight. But how about Drew Holiday many I think it's I think that's really tough for the Bucks to lose a game where you know, they get thirty three from Drew Holiday. Um that that's like really tough to lose. They felt like Atlanta the only person they had going was was Trey Young who had who had forty eight himself. Wid didn't know he had forty eight, Um,

he had forty eight himself. Um, So like what's the I guess their answer for for Trey Young going forward? Like is it you said you can't go honest at the five full time? I'm just wondering, like where they go you if you trap him? Like I feel like his passing is even better than his scoring in my opinion, Like his passing is what makes them special to me. Where do you kind of go with that? Like what where's their answer there? Um? Other than just honest at

the five? I guess. So it's the switching, right because like you could tell, like when he would get uh into those possessions at the end of the game where the Milwaukee was switching, he was dribbling out front and he didn't really know what to do, and his default isolation move is just to step back three. And now some of this is just a problem with the regular season because in the red season, the vast majority of teams that they encounter aren't going to switch. They're going

to play a traditional screening roll coverage. So he can you Trey Young stuff ball season, but he might be in a situation here for the rest of the series

where he has to attack in isolation. Now, if you're Milwaukee, it's all about matchups, right, Like, as long as as long as you can try to keep you know, p J. Tucker, Janice, Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton out there for the big key moments and then for the rest of the game, you just gotta do a lot of help and recover if he does attack a you know, uh like uh, someone like Pat Conathan. You need to have that back line

set up to help in those isolation situations. But at the end of the day, like they're gonna turn Trey into an ice player at some point in the series. They did at the end of that game, and if they can force him to take tough step back three is then they're gonna win. Uh that that's the the What you had mentioned that was interesting is Drew Holiday going off the the the the the point of optimism for Atlanta as a way to improve over the course

of the series. I didn't think they defended particularly well, and ironically, right at the same time Milwaukee went to switching, Atlanta got burned on a bunch of lobs to Janice at the end of the game, because they were in some sort of funky you know, in between drop coverage where they were giving up lobs to Janice and that drew Janice pick and roll. So it's it's like Atlanta

can play a lot better defensively than they did. I just tend to think that over the course of the series it's going to devolve into a bunch of switching, and I do think that with Middleton, Drew, and Janice, especially considering the fact that Bogdanovich is still obviously hurt. I just don't think Atlanta has enough ability to generate quality looks in those situations compared to the way that

that Milwaukee can. As the series progresses, Yeah, no, for sure, And I think that's where they'll have to go to it because I think there are ways for Atlanta also to kind of punish those switches. Like we talked about the offensive rebounding. Um, I think Drake can kind of get by. He hit his three tonight, so I don't know if feels to you that well from three again, UM, I think he was actually was four for thirteen, so not grateful he missed a bunch at the end of

the game. Yeah, I think he missed his last five and they were none of them were pretty. They were all tough stepbacks. So what do you think of like how Atlanta kind of defended you, honest for most of

the game. I thought Clint Capella did an awesome job, Like, I wonder how much do you think defending kind of embead helped him with that because I felt like he kind of did the similar thing where em Beat obviously is a much better shooter, but I think if embiad is taking you know, step back, mid range fadeaways contested, you kind of lived with that. I think he kind of did a similar thing to be honest as well. Jannest obviously is a little bit more pound your head

into the wall trying to get to the rim. But how did you see how they defended it. I feel like Cappella should kind of match his minutes with the Honest as much as he could. Um, I'm not sure any minutes you honestly, honest played forty one minutes. I don't know Capella can played forty one minutes, But I just thought he was the best defender on him tonight. Did you see that as well when they were. He

defended him well in the regular season too, U Copella. Yeah, and know, and when you're a you know, I think I think the honest is actually an easier job for him than himbid was, because when you're in a situation where you're going to guard a guy the entire series, uh, you know, over seven games, he's gonna get even better at predicting where his first step is gonna go, where his counters are gonna go, because he doesn't really have to worry about anything other than him loading up and

trying to take him to the basket. Whereas with m B there was that wrinkled him taking those little midrange jump shots, of which he tended to make a lot of them. Uh, you know, he and be burnt him in a lot of ways with those jump shots. I

think I think that he's absolutely the best option. And and you know, when when when Janice is the ball handler in screen and roll, when he is the ball handler, they don't have to, uh, they don't have to worry about him really picking them apart, so they don't have to like a drop coverage works against nice, if that makes sense, because he's not gonna burn you with floaters and mid range jump shots and because he's not gonna

burn you as a passer. There actually was a play randomly where they switched Trey Young on him, and you could tell that there wasn't within their defensive scheme because Trey was like looking around to his teammates, like, what's

the deal, guys, anybody canna help me out here? And then and then Janice ended up turning into taking a turnaround fade away from twelve feet missing it anyway, But that will be the interesting thing to to see, you know, uh, as a counter for Milwaukee is Janice wasn't getting anything as the ball handlers, so they started using him as the screener, and they got a bunch of dunks out of it at the end, because Capella can guard Janice

in isolation. But if you put Capella in a drop coverage against someone like Drew and now he has to worry about towing that line between blocking the lob and defending Drew on at the point of attack, that's a much much bigger challenge for Capella. And I tho, I think I could shots out of that at the end, So I looked for a lot more of your honest as a screener to try to get Compella off of him. Yeah, for sure, And I feel like we saw a lot more of that tonight. Janice also only only two three

point attempts tonight for him. Um, he hit that little mid range bade. It was like a clutched jumper, and I thought like that was a good shot. But I feel like that's and I think he missed another one as we went forward there. But the last thing I guess I had for this game, you've got anything else? I was wondering if the Bucks could like pick on Tray a little bit more than Philly could. Right, Philly couldn't really pick on trade Young on defense. I saw

them try to do it. I just like when you try to do it with Pat Connachon and like brim Fords, I just like, I don't think that worries the Hawks. Like Trey was able to kind of hedge and then recover back to his man. I thought Drew Holiday also wasn't able to do it as much either. He tried to put him in the post. Thought Atlanta held pretty nicely. Um, so did you see like anything there where they can kind of work on that? I felt like they couldn't really attack him the way I thought they would be

able to. They tried to with the honest and Drew Holiday. I just thought, like, didn't really hurt him that way. Drew Holiday sickly heard him on jump shots, which I don't think is punishing tray Young as much as they can't, Like, do you see anything that they can do there to

kind of punish him more on defense? So well, this is the same problem they were having with Brooklyn, right because with Brooklyn, they they would we're going against a lesser version of this switching defense, and they couldn't get high quality looks because they kept attacking the wrong guy. And so I mean, they were going up against you know, James Harden with a torn hamstring, which is every bit as limited defensively as the Tray Young is in a lot of ways, and and they weren't even going out

of their way to attack James Hardy. This is where guys like Chris Paul and Lebron and Luca don Chips are so valuable, or Nicola Yokits are so valuable because they're they're patient enough to work the shot clocked down to get to the right spot against the right defender. And that's the thing is like, even even on the play where Janice Goot Trey Young, Trey Young had time to look around talk to his teammates, be like what's the deal, because you honest is like I got Tray

on me. What do I do? Like, uh, you know a post move? You know, Like he just he just doesn't he just doesn't know what to do because he's not that's not his game is he's he operates at his best when decisions are simplified for him. And and that's what's so advantageous about that, Like you need to literally look at the floor. Oh look, they're switching stuff on the back end to try to keep Tray out

of screening actions. Okay, so we need to run like a pin down on that side so they can't you know, do this before we set the screen whatever it is, you need to have something set up and as part of the play you have twenty four seconds is a lot of times as long as you get to the match up with you know, five seconds on the shock clock, that's plenty of time to go to a really quick, high percentage move, you know what I mean? So I I I just I Tray is there for the attacking.

I'm just not sure that anybody outside of Phoenix is going to be able to properly attack him because all of these teams lack super high i Q guys basketball. And I'm just talking about that very top tier basketball, like you guys, because like even Trey, when Milwaukee started switching, even Trade was like, what do I do? You know you could tell you could tell he was struggling. Now, I think Trey will get a little better at it

as the series progresses, once they do more switching. Um. But yeah, I think I think there's a reason why Brooklyn got away with it. I think there's a reason why Atlanta got away with it tonight. For the most part, it's just it takes to really dissect the switching defense. You have to have that top tier basketball i Q

type of the type of guy. And it's funny you bring up that possession where like he had Honest on him, and Honest was like I'm not sure what to do and he's looking at Collins and Capella and the help and he just takes his like one arm hook right and it just I think it almost air balls and it goes way off. I thought, like that's the best. That's the best shot you can do. I thought Chris Middleton would be the guy to kind of pick on Trey Young, right, Like I thought more like maybe like

a Janis Chris Milton pick and roll. But Milton China with six three. Um, he seems very like feast famine in the playoffs. So you probably won't get a six for twenty three game again. But I mean I don't think you'll get a bunch of like high percentage efficiency games either, so that that can be tough for them to kind of overcome if he's not playing well. Um, that's kind of all I had. What did Do you have anything else from this this Bucks Hanks kind of

game game one? No, not really, I mean, uh, the the Middleton stuff he said. The last thing I'd say is that I kind of trust Middleton to eventually show up. He is. You know, I have seen him over the last several years, have tons of bad games, excuse me, tons of bad games in playoff series and then still bounce back. I mean, don't forget like he hit the

shot that beat Brooklyn. You know, he knocked Brooklyn out of the playoffs with a turnaround fade away on the post in overtime, you know, in game seven, and I I tend to think that, you know, he's a guy that that kind of eases his way into playoffs series as he really builds his rhythm and and I'm not necessarily worried about about him in the long run. And you know, it's not so much about him, uh you know, he's not really like a dribble out front, set himself

up type of guy. He kind of needs to be put into spots. So some of that's on Drew, Like Drew needs to do what is necessary to get Trey onto Middleton and then be like get to the post. Shooters on the opposite end, go to work, you know, like some of that needs to be set up for him. But yeah, I'm I'm, I'm, I'm super into this series.

I think it's super interesting, super uh interesting chess match type of series because both teams have distinct advantages that can go to um, you know, but Trey Young is so much better and pick and roll than anybody Milwaukee has. That's an advantage and we you know, we've discussed it at length, but I I personally am leaning Milwaukee in six because I think it's gonna degrade into a ton of switching and get really physical as a series goes on.

And I think that, uh, I think that Milwaukee is gonna have a little bit better time generating better quality shots over over the course of the series. Yeah, me too. I probably have Milwaukee probably in seven. I still think it's just a really tossed up, really close series that I think Atlanta has like the perfect kind of personnel to uh attack Milwaukee what they what they do well.

So I'm kind of I'm really interested to see it. Um. I don't really trust the other guys, I guess as much in Milwaukee to just score enough, um they can win on the road. Of course. I just think it's gonna be a really long series. Um. I guess you can kind of move to this like Clippers Clippers Son series. What did you kind of see from the first two games? Like what was your kind of main first kind of

takeaway from from those from those two games? So, first of all, I think that the Clippers are a case study and how modern basketball, you know, I can succeed even in absence of talent. That's not to say that the Clippers on a town, because they do. But but Phoenixes has a lot more talent in my opinion, um, and I think Utah even pre even with the injury to to Mike Conley, I thought Utah had more talent

than the Clippers without Kawhi Leonard. But they've won on the strength of dribble drive creation from from Reggie Jackson and from Paul George and just spacing the hell out of the floor was shooting, and then a switching defensive scheme that has caused teams to have a lot of problems. Um. Paul George continues to to really impress me. I think, you know, Lakers fans have their fun um uh and and he walked right into it with those two free

throw misses. But I thought he was so good at the end of that game before the misses, and that's just a really unfortunate It's an unfortunate turn of events for a player that has really stepped up to the plate. Um. But I think I continue to be incredible. Phoenix has not lost the game since since uh since Anthony Davis pulled his growing um. At the end of that game too, everybody was making plays. You had you know eight and

making a tough hook shot over Zubos. You had Michail Bridges hitting the three coming off the screen at the top of the key. You had you know, Campaign driving scooping layup. You know, like like as amazing as Devin Booker is like that, they don't need him to do everything. I think he only made five shots in game two because the role players for that Phoenix in retrospect might be in that top tier of talent in the league,

not with their stars. Their stars are both you know, in that ten to fifteen tend to twenty range in the league. But down the roster, they're stacked at every position. Everybody's really good. Campaign is like a really good guard and you know they've awesome three and d guys. Eighten is on his way to being a star like Phoenix. Phoenix is really really good, and I think I think they deserve a lot of credit for the way things have broken, even though they've had some injury lock. Yeah,

for sure. I guess before I get into it, like I got kind of killed for going to a Clipper game. What a what a crime that was? But going to the I know, how dare I go watch a basketball game? But like going to the game and going seeing like what the playoffs are in person, that crowd like really did change the game, like we make fun of like Kipper fans, but like that crowd was so into it. I saw it affect Utah on the floor, like I saw Royce O'Neill get like, holy crap, Like this crowd

game super loud. I can't hear anything, and he turned the ball over. Like That's where I think it's so interesting this game. Going back for game three, those those players really pick it up at home. They really feed off the crowd. Terrence Man dropped forty in that final Game six to kind of make an advance. So I don't think this series series is over, but I do think like I agree with I think Phoenix has the

more talent um. I've been kind of banging this drum, like I feel like they're way deeper than I guess we even thought Michal Bridges is just one of the best three in D. I don't even think he's just three and D, but just one of the best three D players. Cam Johnson and then like for this series to me, like I thought the key was DeAndre Aden and he forced them to go big in Game two reaches Zoo Bag played thirty five minutes, he was a

plus zero. I just think as the series goes on, I don't know if you would agree, but that's kind of a win for Phoenix if you make the Clippers go big. Um, it takes away the driving lanes from Paul George. Um. He he had a bad shooting bad shooting nine in Game two when they went big. Some of that circumstantial, Some of that is not. Some of that isn't coincidence to me. I think his driving lanes getting shut off by them having to go big. I

think it's a win. And then you allow Devin Booker to got to get to his spots, which is that like mid range kind of mid range area, Like would you agree with that? Like, let getting the Clippers to go big, even if it neutralizes eight and a bit, which it really didn't. I think it was ten for fourteen even when they went big. But like I feel like that's a win for them as we go forward in this series and made them it made them abandon

what the identity they had taken. And this goes to that question that was that arose after Game six of the Clippers Jazz series. You know is DeAndre Eten a better basketball player than Rudy Gobert, and I don't think that. I don't think that's a case to be made in the regular season, but you but you are seeing and

I don't even necessarily have an opinion on this. I don't want this to be taken out of out of context here, but I do think that there is a case to be made that Eten is a better playoff player than Gobert because he's more mobile on the perimeter. He's better at defending in space. Gobert is much better at the rim, sure, but but Eaton has has shown a better ability to rotate around on the perimeter, and

Eton is just a bigger physical presence in the pain. Offensively, he's better at offensive rebounding, He's better at the little push and hook shots around the bast He's got great hands, he rolls hard to the rim. Guys bounce off of him because he's stronger than Gobert, and he's just a

bigger problem on the back end of those rotations. If you trap, you know a if you trapped Booker coming up the screen, if you trap Campaign coming up the screen, and even if the back line defender is there to bump and Chuck and as he's coming down the lane, he's just so big. He raises his arms, makes himself available, and he's got great hands and he just catches and

finishes everything. So again, like I'm not saying he's better than Gobert, but he's shown himself to be extremely valuable in the playoffs in his first attempt in a modern form of basketball, in a way that Gobert hasn't really shown um over the time. And so I think that's been really interesting. And like you said, like you said, it forced the Clippers to play differently. In the last series.

It was a lot of Marcus Morris and a lot of Nick Patu, you know, but instead you're seeing zoobots plan even though he was, you know, mostly a non factor against Utah, and then you're seeing, uh, I'm blinking on his name, the left handed shooter um on for for the Clippers. Yes, thank you. You had big minutes in that game. Uh, you know, the Clippers had to kind of switch gears in a lot of ways. And so I thought, I thought that that was really interesting.

And that's just the problem that Phoenix presents to you. They they they do not allow you to go small because Aton can punish you. I mean hell Eton literally physically demolished Anthony Davis for a playoff game in game one of that first round series. So I think Eton Eaton kind of allows them to have multiple identities as like this modern basketball team with tons of shooting and dribbling, while also having that physical presence inside. Yeah, and Jason.

It's not just like a just being able to catch and hit a jump hook just changes everything, Like going to go in there in person and watching Gobert catch it two feet in the paint, double pump, fake twice and throw up you know nothing. It's just super frustrating to watch. Yeah, Like no, but not even just that, Like I feel like a seven footer like you should be, Like they would switch and they'd have like Reggie Jackson

on Golbert and he can't do anything with it. The Clippers aren't scared of it at all, and like the the Utah players don't even look at him either. Though. That's the other part about this. Donovan Mitchell attacks his own switch rather than trying to get Gobert to the ball. So it's just Aten is just such a different monster in that, like you can't switch Kennard, Reggie Jackson, guys like that on him because he'll just eat You'll just eat them alive. It's just really interesting to watch the

difference there. Obviously, go Beart is a much better, I guess defender in the in the regular season, but I think Aten has done a good job like that they weren't able to pick on him as they were gobert Um. I think I think Phoenix has better probably perimeter defenders, right because he would say that, like they have a lot better perimeter defenders in Utah. But still though, watching Aiden just like demolished him inside, I think it's really interesting.

I'm curious, like, do you think Tyler continues to go big um as we as we go to l A. I think you'll have to um because of the Aden problem. It's the same it's the same problem that the Lakers were dealing with, you know, like they couldn't play someone like Montrese after a d went down because of the fact that Aiden was such a big physical problem for them.

And you know the you mentioned the defense, and I think that was one of the big takeaways I had from this series and just this playoff run in general. You know, Utah was a better regular season defense because of their funneling in to go Bear and the fact that teams couldn't properly attack him. Um but they Utah wasn't good at the point of attack in that series. They were getting killed off the dribble by everybody Roy, So Neil was getting killed, Ingles was getting killed. Jordan

Clarkson was basically just a turnstile. Like the the Phoenix, perimeter defenders do a much better job of keeping guys in front of them, which makes it so that Aidan's job is easier, which makes it that he doesn't have

to guard in space as much. Like that, a lot of stuff is being set up for eight and playing into his strengths like that was part of the issue for Gobert is like half the time he's constantly helping at the rin because somebody just gave up a straight line drive with no resistance, and then you know he helps, but then the ball gets swung around and he can't get back out to the perimeter. And you know with by by just by putting up just a little bit

more resistance on the ball, you make it. You make it a lot easier for your for your back line defenders to do their jobs. And I feel like for Utah, like all season, they've kind of funneled everything to go Bear right, Like that's basically been their game plan. When you watch Utah, like their their guards funnel it to go Bart. It's his job to kind of help. But you don't play these five our lineubs in the regular season. So when the Clippers went to this, they just had

no adjustment to it. But like my other thing I wrote here is like Devin Booker is putting himself into like the superstar shop maker category, right, Like this is like this is high level of shot making. I thought Devin Booker was really good. I thought he should have been you know, all NBA or whatever. I didn't think he was this level of high quality shotmaker. Like he's he's raising, waiting for the defender to kind of come down, and then releasing like he's changing his shot in mid air.

He's he has a spot where like once he raises, it's over. Like what are you seeing from like him? Um? And do you think he can kind of keep this up? But obviously Chris Paul looks like he'll be back by game three. But do you see this as sustainable this level of shot making. Well, he didn't shoot well in game two, but I thought game one he really went off. Do you see, like, do you see anything that the Clippers in game two to make him struggle a little bit more, or like, do you think it's just he

just kind of missed his shots. I thought he got to the line as well to kind of keep them alive. But like, what do you see from Devin Booker in this series? Well, I think Booker, So first of all, I think Booker belongs on the same tier as someone like Kyrie Irving. And by that I mean, like at his specific skill, which is that the lead high end three level scoring, he's one of the one of that

top tier of guys. Um, he needs to get better at the other stuff, the defensive stuff and the although he's defended pretty well this year, uh, in the playmaking stuff to really kind of be considered among the best

of the best. But I think I think he belongs in that Kyriet here, And what that means is in any given one game sample, he's a high threat to be the best player on the floor, and we've seen that a bunch of different times, including that close out Game six against the Lakers where it's like, yeah, a d went down. You know, the Lakers are trying to get their legs back. There's not a whole lot going

on with them knocking down shots. But what really killed them was Devin Booker was literally on fire and there was nothing they could do with him. You know, I have a big believer in what he brings to the table. You know, in game two, I thought the Clifflippers just mucked it up. I thought they had made it a ton more physical. They made it a point of like we're gonna put Pat Beverley on him. Pat Beverley is gonna pick up some fouls. It's gonna get ugly, but

we just want to kind of throw Devon off. And for the record, in the long run, it worked in their face Fiver because their role players had confidence to make big plays at the end of the game. Like you know, in in that specific role, Devin Booker is kind of a decoy. Yeah, he only made five shots. Although I did think that one dribble pull up or the you know several dribble pull up, the one you're talking about at the end of the game, Um, that was such a gigantic shot. But for the most part,

he's playing decoy. He's he's just trying to be himself, but to draw as much attention in on him as possible so that his teammates can get going. And uh, and you know, really quickly before before we're done with this game, you know, I that that was such an officiating atrocity, I thought, and so many different examples of what's wrong with the way the game is officiated. Happened

at the end of that game between the Infamous you know. Uh, there's a collision at a ball screen off off ball screen, and no one knows what to do where Paul George just ran and and Devin Booker's literally just trying to hold his ground and Paul George just hooks his arm and just flops and falls to the ground and gets

two free throws to the to the Uh. Patrick Beverley literally reaching in, like when you reach in aggressively your face, your face follows your shoulder, you know why, because it's attached,

it's attached to your shoulder. And he reached in and on the play, Devin Booker's natural arm motion barely bumps him in the face, and he just flails and flops and even on review, it becomes an offensive foul, and then you've got the uh, the the awful play where the ball was knocked out of bounds and in every single level of basketball, including the NBA, that's ball to the offense. But we're gonna review it and overturn it,

like I just I thought. And then the replay reviews just slowing down the game and making it last for everything I think. I think they said the last two minutes took thirty three minutes of real time, Like I just something. These playoffs have been fantastic, So I don't want to reign on a parade, but something has to be done. So something has to be done to get the egos of these officials in check, to to to do something to counteract what the way the game is

being officiated. UH two reactionary to flopping and and and I don't I don't know what needs to be done, but something needs to be done. That's all I'm gonna say about it. My solution is, I feel like the referee should have a twenty four second shot clock to like get those reviews done for us. On teach, we see two reviews, we see two close replays, and you know, we kind of decided I feel like it shouldn't take

that long, And I agree with you. On the first of all, that flop by Patrick Beverley was absolutely awful, Like he did kind of get touched, but I felt like it was an awful flop. And then I thought Jeffund Gunny, who kind of made the point there is the way. The rule says it's the person who causes the ball to go out of bounds, right, so it's not called that way, but the referees are kind of told to call it this way. It's a it's a tough thing to kind of navigate through there. But Yeah,

this is a really interesting series. Man. I'm really excited to see where this kind of goes. I don't I don't think they're done. Um, I don't know if Kauai will I'm back, he's already out, I believe for game three. Um, I'm just wanting like what adjustments I guess um the Clippers will kind of do to keep going, Like what other adjustments do they have? I guess um campaign dropping twenty nine on them, Like I feel like they believe

that won't happen again. Although like these Guards have really big fans yeah, man, watching him just do exactly what he did to us kind of felt a little bit better. He just attacked the rim man and you know he I mean he kind of played out crisp I mean he might even outplayed what Chris Paul would have done in terms of production. Just watching him drive to the rim hit hit threes, it kind of gave us. Give

me a little PTSD. But where do where the Clippers kind of go to kind of steal I guess to kind of take Game three, well, I think they I think they need to kind of mimic what the Lakers did in Game two, which is they need to do a better job of of of making eight and play in the crowd and rotating on the back end, which for the most part, it's just about doing a better job. It's not necessarily doing anything different. It's just doing what

you're doing at a higher level. I think Game three is a must win for Phoenix in a lot of ways because I don't know what the I don't know what the intel is on the Kauai thing. And let let me clarify why I think it's a must win.

It will make more sense after I say anyway, I don't know what the intel is on the Kauai thing, because you know, part of me says, you know, prior knowledge would tell us that Kauai would never even dare lace up unless his knee was because of the fact that that's the way he's approached that throughout his career. He's terrified of getting hurt, it seems, so he's always

waited longer than usual. But at the same time, like Bill Simmons keeps talking about how he has reason to believe that he's going to try to come back in this series. And one thing is if if you go up three oh, Kauai is not coming back. If you go up three oh, Kauai's flying back down to San Diego and he's resting, he's going into rehab. So like game three to me is a chance to to to

get there. Like if if if the Clippers yet game three, and if the series drags on and Kauai has a chance to come back, that could get sketchy, uh for Phoenix because because the Clippers do play really well at the end of these series, as we've seen so far in this playoff run, and if Kauai really does just have a knee sprain, one of the things with a knee sprain is that you know you're not you're not. Uh, you don't have to deal with the long term weakening

of the knee muscles because you're still in shape. You have pain in the ligaments. But if he does try to come back, as long as he doesn't re injure himself, he could still be a decent percentage of himself, like we saw with Steph in two thousands, sixteen and so on and so forth. And the last thing you need is, you know, Game five, series tied at two and here

comes Kauai, you know what I mean. So I think I think Game three is a is a good chance for for the Suns to just put the Clippers out of their misery and send him into the summer and make sure that Kauai doesn't try to come back. I

can steal this thing. Yeah, that's why it's so interesting that Chris Paul is coming back, because, like I keep thinking back, it is kind of crazy, right, the Lakers beat them twice actually, and they're the only team to beat Phoenix UM in the playoffs, so it's a really kind of interstring. But Chris Paul coming back, and like the Lakers kind of game plan. Remember we kind of talked about it. They were kind of living with eight and scoring right as long as they were able to

take away Um Booker and Chris Paul's effectiveness. And it kind of worked for the first two games and for the game two. In Game three they won while still not shooting well from three. I just don't think the Clippers have the personnel to do that, like to where they can let a and eat while just living with zoobas trying to defend Chris Paul and Devin Booker on the perimeter. And like, that's where I'm so interested to see.

That's what makes Phoenix so tough. Like we're watching Devin Booker hit these shots and we forget, like the best mid range score ever maybe is about to come back. And that's the shots the Clippers kind of have to give up going big because if you go big, Zoobach can't switch out. You know, Chris Paul is gonna draw a million fouls he tries to hedge hard. Patrick Beverley and Chris Paul is gonna be a fun matchup. Rondo and Chris Paul too, who ate each other. But I'm

just so curious to see how the Chris Paul. Chris Paul obviously gonna be super fired up coming back for his team who won those first two games. I'm just interested in how they defend that, especially without Kauaire basically Paul George Um and you know, Paul Joys trying to defend Devin Booker and I don't know who guards Chris Paul, but that's where I'm interested to see. Like I feel like going big neutralizes eating to an extent, but then you have to kind of guard their guards on top,

and Phoenix isn't such a sync right now. They're you know, they're double drag screens are like on point. Jake Crowder's making shots with cole Bridges that love to Aidan man what like? Have you seen that? Like that play, Like, I think I've seen it one time before, but I thought that was just an amazing kind of play. The end the game to where Aidan got the dunk. It's just they look like they're they're gonna they're gonna put this away. But I think there's gonna be a long series,

but it looks like they're they're up for it. Yeah, I did that play. We've seen it a handful of times. I've seen variations of it. I saw Vince Carter get one ages ago. I saw the Tyson Chandler one that's famous. You know what's funny is I remember thinking the Tyson Chandler one was a goldpend and but I didn't watch

it live and I didn't really research it. So apparently that was when the rule was originally uh you know, kind of like that people learned about the rule um because I thought, you know, when the lab is originally thrown, I thought like, oh, I think that I think that that got over the rim enough for Eighton to get a good clean dunk on it. Like I just thought

it would have counted anyway. And then when I heard about the rule, I was like, oh, this is over, Like like, if that's the rule, then there's nothing to even look at here, you know what I mean? But yeah, you know what you're talking about, the adjustments the This is the beauty of having a team that makes you pick your poison. And it's what makes me looks so

good and it's what made the Lakers so good. Is it's like when you're when you as a defense have to choose between two crappy options, you know that that's when you when you really you have power as a as an NBA contender, because you know, the hera the Clippers, a team that just destroyed the one seed without Kauai because of matchups, because the Jazz did not have a

good option to counter what the Clippers were doing. And flip around to the other end, and here you are in a different series against a different team, but now they have presented matchup problems for you, and you're gonna be sitting in there watching film, going, Okay, we gotta play zoobots because Etan's killing us. But if we play zobots and Chris Paul comes back, they're going to attack the living hell out of him, you know, And and

that's the that's the the discussion to be had. My guess is by the end, the Clippers are going to go down playing small, Like if they go down, they're gonna go down. I think playing small. I think they're just gonna try to really swarm around eight and try to get him before he goes up. Stuff along those lines. But that's what the Lakers tried to and they didn't

have a ton of success. I can't tell you how many times I saw Crusoe or Cacp comes flying by from the opposite corner on an entry pass to eighton and tried to knock the ball the way. But he's just got big, strong hands and and he's really coordinated and he's quick in decisions. When I said Gobart is too slow, I'm talking about his decisions around the basket,

like go Beart catches and thinks about it. He doesn't know what to do, like like eating catches and it's like just it's all fluid, natural motion to the basket with those little scoop shots and layups and floaters and stuff, and and that's where where he gets going. Yeah, I would say, yeah. And he's a number one pick for a reason, right, Like that's why it's weird. We kind of we kind of kind of forget that sometimes watching him,

just because of his kind of draft class. But like he's the number one pick though he's supposed to be more skilled. It's just while I'm watching, like going from watching like Gobert catch it download not be able to do anything, or even Derrick Favre is a guy like that to like Eton who just punishes you every single time les jump hooks turned around. Um, he's able to make layouts. It just changes the whole game. It's he's can't go small against him, and he's a force, Like

he actually attacks the offensive rebounds and he cuts. He dives with like intention to like dunk on you, you know, like and you know, go bears a lob threat, but like his lobs are like so like he has to be open. I feel like right, like go BET's not catching and dunking on you a lot of the times. Aten will like catch and finish in like and ones in a way there where he got just doesn't put

pressure like that. So it's really just stronger. He's stronger. Yeah, um, and I think I think Bonnie Williams deserves his flowers to uh yeah, like every every little for him to be drawing up plays for role players at the end of games out of time out, like like he did for uh Michail Bridges on that big three at the top of the Key, which was literally an aftertime outplay, you know, for him to the way he adjusted to the Beverly stuff in Game one by by having them

set the screen out near half court in Booker just picked him apart, you know, uh, with a more space to his last second play design for DeAndre Ayton genius to have Booker set the back screen because Booker had just made the shot on the previous possession. And and also so this is stuff that like stuff that you you notice that you can do a better job of noticing on on rewatch, like he Booker makes the pull

up jump shot that gives him the lead. And on the next possession, they openly double Devin Booker on the right wing and it leads to the wide open Michale Bridges corner three that he missed. But that is Tyler showing that he's doubling Booker. If you're doubling Booker, chances are if you use him as a screener, you might get someone to bite and take and double down on Booker. And and Zoobo didn't double Booker, but he lunged at him on the screen. He lunged to the right, got

himself out of position. And eighton was if you watch eighton had plenty of space to really load up into a jump. And that's all play design. That's Monty Williams noticing that they're doubling Devin Booker on the previous possession, understanding that if they had Booker set the screen, He's probably gonna draw an extra defender with him and that leading to the game winner. And then I think, you know, like I said, money, money, Money has to get his

flowers for the way he's coached so far at this postseason. No, absolutely, And that was a beautiful play design. They had like point seven uh seven seconds left, so I honestly thought the Clippers had that. Um, it was funny watching Cousins like not take away the one pass you're supposed to or like that's the whole point of being there is to take away that specific pass. And he just did you see the baseline angle? Did you see that on

the baseline? Oh my god, Like he still almost got a hand on it, and he was out of position. That's the crazy part. That's why you have to be in the right spot. Like he was way out of position, but he's so big he almost blocked the past anyway. Yeah, no, exactly. That's just just a crazy finish and it's kind of the Clippers. Um left there. We'll see how it goes. Um, do you have anything else from this game? I just have one last kind of thing for you. Are you done?

I'm done for this game. What do you alright last thing tonight? Like we haven't I don't think we've spoken since the Philly um Hawks game seven, right, um have have you? Have you ever seen anything like the Ben Simmons kind of thing that went on, not just maybe that game, that series, Like I've been watching hoops for like since like two thousand and seven thou eight. I haven't seen like a player go through that, especially like I've seen players pass up open shots here and there.

I've never seen a guy like with that much talent go through this kind of mental hurdle where he takes four shots in the whole fourth quarter of a seven game series. Like is there anything that you've seen that you can relate to that? Or like where does he go from here? Or like anything, like what do you what do you think about Ben Simmons from there? Because I think that's just a really fascinating thing that kind of happened to him, and obviously his value absolutely tinked

from there. We'll see what He's obviously not going to be back with Philly in my opinion, But like, have you seen anything like that or or what are your thoughts on that? So, first of all, no, I haven't seen anything like that. I mean the kind of thing that I've seen, you know, a half dozen times, you know, in my time watching basketball is the the Janice against

Miami last year type of deal. The up and coming superstar, usually early to mid twenties, has unbelievable dominant regular seasons, but gets into the playoffs and struggles against playoff defensives that we see all the time. That's kind of like

par for the course, so to speak. What we don't see often, what we never see is like like Lebron's game for against the Mavericks where he had eight points in two thousand and eleven, but every single game like that was like Lebron did that once and it was considered like unbelievably insane, Like we we just don't see players of his talent level just like do this. And and as far as the explanation for it, I think

it's just the way he's wired. And you know, there's I think it's like his work ethic, because he obviously doesn't work on his game. Like there was that executive that came out after the game and was like, can you tell me one thing that Ben Simmons is better at now than he was when he was drafted, and the answers. No, you could argue he's gotten worse at some things, like you know, even though he may not have a jump shot, but it's like he doesn't need

a jump shot. Would he necessarily be nice for him to have a jump shot, but he needs to have floaters and scoop shots and hook shots and push shots and anything that he could get off against specific matchups in the uh you know, inside fifteen ft he doesn't have any of that. You know that that's the that that's the embarrassing part. But like the other half of it is the way he's wired. I genuinely certain people are just you know, it's like the Lebron verse KD thing.

You know, Lebron, He's at the end of the game, he's gonna drive and if he draws a second defender, he's gonna kick it. That's the way he's wired. You could tell him to do something different, but he doesn't want to. That's not the way he likes to play basketball. You know. The way Kevin Durant plays basketball is a more assassin menality, and he might take a bad shot over to defenders. That's just kind of the way he's wired. The same thing goes like for Ben Simmons, he's wired

like Jason Kidd. He wants to rebound, he wants to defend, he wants to set up his teammates, he wants to occasionally take a shot when it really fits in with the offense. But he doesn't have that aggression gene. So even if he did get good at that stuff, I just don't know that he'd necessarily start doing it. I just I just don't think it's really wired into his game.

And and you don't he In the postgame presser, someone asked him, you know, about him not playing well, you know, compared to the regular season, and he looked over at the assistant and he goes, you know, hey, uh, you know how many assists did I have tonight? And there was like fifteen or something, and then he was like, how many What a Trey What a Trey Young? Shoot? You know there's five for twent three or whatever it was. And he goes like, yeah, I feel like I feel

like I did pretty well. And he's not wrong, like he's like he did a good job within that Jason Kidd type of role. The question is, is is he's got the talent of Jason Kidd mixed with a little bit of Lebron you know, so he should be more than Jason Kidd. He just I just said, I don't think he wants to, and I don't think he works hard

enough to do that even if you wanted to. Yeah, Like my thing was, he never had a jump shot, right like that this idea that like a jump shot is the cure all Like he was a good player before even without jump shot. It's just like he used to have an actual like inside game where like I remember when we used to play Philly would be like, who are you putting on Ben Simmons? Because you can't just put like a k CP on Ben Simmons, because

he would take you to the post. He would punish you inside, you know what I mean, Like you would he'd finish in there. And now like in the playoffs, it's like where you putting on Ben Simmons, it doesn't really matter because he's gonna go stand in dunker spot. Like but and maybe that's like a team kind of building thing. Maybe need more space, But I feel like

that just gives him like too much credit. Like I I don't know, like putting it's not really feasible to just build a team around Ben Simmons, especially a primary

ball handler who can't shoot. It's just so weird to watch like him like that that like dunk that he had that he passed him and his size bowl, which like obviously was the biggest play of that, but there were a bunch of other players where like, you know, he'd he'd get the rebound, like sprint up court, fly down there, and then just do a handoff like it's like this like fake kind of drive, you know, just like sprint up the court and then no, not at all and hand off to Purk on cork Mas, you know,

like and then go stand in the dugas bross Like what was the point of like doing that speed, going all the way to it and then just go and stand on the dunks. But like his skill and like at six ten, it's not like he's undersized. He's not like Donovan Mitchell size. You know, he's just six ten dude. Like if you get to the rim in transition, Like he can't even do ten percent of what Janice is doing in these fourth quarters. That's the crazy part to me, is like there's there should be in a level of

aggression from a I was this good? Who was you know, put on a pedestal Pretty early in his career. He was the best player on all his teams up until he got into the n B. A um, you could even argue maybe that first year he was the best, he was the best player, but like, just it's just really weird to watch a guy who I feel like was better his rookie year than he is now. So like, it's just fascinating. I just wanted your, uh, your thoughts on that, because I don't know where he goes from here.

Well really quickly. The last thing I'll say about it is that that famous play that he got made fun of for at the end on the baseline where he missed the dunk or didn't take the dunk. What was so funny is that kind of got portrayed too as like a choking kind of thing, like he got scared or like something along those lines. I literally think that's just an extension of his mentality. It's not that it's not that he looked at the rim, looked at Trey Young,

thought I can dunk this, but I'd rather not. He spun in immediately was looking for teammates because his mentality is I'm not here to shoot, I'm here to set people up, which that balance is so far on that side now that it's hurting him as a player. And that's a separate conversation, but that's all it was. Like, if anything, that play was just the embodiment of his

mentality as a basketball player. That's just the way he is is he He's the guy that beats his man in a post up spin and gets to the baseline and immediately thinks, who am I passing this too? You know what I mean? So but anyway, we we went a little bit longer than I wanted to tonight, but I also want to eventually get around to having some people on. So let's try to do another one of these uh soon, and let's be a little bit quicker on the games, and let's get to some of our listeners.

But do you have anything else you want to add tonight before we call it? Now? This is fundamental, but it's good to be back on the head, back in the group of these things. Okay, man, all right, everybody, I will have the recording of this on our podcast speech shortly, thank you as always for you guys, support and uh We will see you guys in the next couple of days. Thanks for Yeah, Thanks to everyone