Episode 41: State Of The Lakers With Raj C. @UnwrittenRul3s

beautiful Friday morning. I got my work out in in the morning, and yeah, it's it's nice, nice out here. How about you? It was good. I played some basketball this morning. I'm super lucky to have access to a gym now, and no one has the gym after we play, So I go and I play, and then I stick around and I get shots up. It allows me to work on my game in a in a way that I have been able to do for the most part

during the pandemic. Um Uh and I love. We were just talking, Roger and I were just talking before the pod, like how awesome it feels to get a workout in in the morning to start your day. It just gets your whole body, you know, woken up and and and just it just sets the tone for the rest of the day and helps you get going. Um. Uh, So we're gonna talk about a bunch of stuff today. The We're gonna talk about last night's uh my heat game.

We're gonna talk about Ben Nacklamore's debut. We're gonna talk about Andre Drummond and how he looks so far. We're gonna talk about Dennis Shrewder and how he's been struggling a little bit as of late. Um. And then uh, Roger and I both want to talk for a little while about the most recent podcast uh that Banski did with with Kevin Durant and Draymond Green. I thought there was a bunch of super interesting stuff in there that we're gonna get to at the end. Um. But let's

start with the Lakers. So you know, uh, if you were to look back a week or so ago, UM, you would have marked this one as a loss, not just a loss, but a game that the Lakers would have just got absolutely destroyed. And uh, you know, I actually went into the last night's game with a little bit optimism thinking they could win. And the reason why is they've kind of figured out a formula without Lebron and a D. We're defending our ass off for the record.

In the ten games since Lebron went down. Without Lebron and a D, there's third in the league in defense. So there's still guard like crazy starting to make some in a way that they weren't king earlier. They just they have a little bit of a formula. They're rocking with that formula, and they're winning some basketball games four and six, which is a hell of a lot better than we all inspect expected beforehand. Um, what were you

what were your early impressions after watching last night's game. Yeah, So, like I like to go back and watch because it's hard to kind of catch everything you want to see live. And I was looking at Andre Drummond and to me, he's like, he's like Wes Matthews in a big body, right. He matches all their guards physicality, except at the big so he's really nice. He can switch. He was in a defensive stance and both of us kind of were

on the Andre him in train right. We were saying that he's gonna be better than he looked in that Bucks game after he kind of hurt his toe, And that's the main thing that stood out to me. I think he had like fifteen points tend to rebounds or something like that, but his steals. He got a lot of hands on the ball um he was able to trap and kind of help and recover, and that's the

main thing to me to see him fit in. I feel like last night was like house money, right like, after they beat all the teams they were supposed to last night, it was just kind of like, hey, go play free and try to get a win. And that Miami team is a lot better, probably than their record would dictate right there, twenty six and twenty four or something, and they're still like the fourth seed, which shows kind of the difference in the conference. But they're a lot

better than they show. And they're very switch heavy. They have a lot of big wings. And Sproulstra, who's one of the best coaches in the league, trapped every single time our ball handlers because he knew we had no one who can dribble beside Shrewder, who couldn't dribble last night either, but he had to get a tough time. But yeah, it's supposed to trapped every single time, and that kind of really messed up our offensive flow. But I thought the defense, like you said, it's just consistent,

played really well. At They held Miami to like ninety eight with like five minutes left or something, four minutes left, So the defense was good. Jimmy Butler took over late. But yeah, that was a really good I mean, you don't want moral moral losses are moral wins? How are they say it? But that was a good game. I mean that's a good Miami team that can beat a lot of really good teams. So yeah, I'm happy. I

thought Drum played well. We'll speak on mac lamore a little later, but what else did you see from last night? Going going into the game. I actually thought the Lakers had a legitimate chance to win. And they hung around and you know, as like you said, Jimmy Butler took over l there were big moments where the Lakers got close. Think like you know, end of the second quarter. There was a moment even middle of the fourth quarter where they got within three, I believe, and just at that point,

you know, the talent advantage for Miami took over. But it was something that I thought they had a chance to win. And here's the deal, if you know, in this next four games that we're looking at most likely.

You know, Mark Stein hinted that Anthony Davis is gonna try to come back on the seventeenth, that's exactly four weeks to the day since Lebron hurt his uh ankle, So there's a realistic chance that Lebron could be coming back to So we're looking at, basically best case scenario, another four games, and in these four games, with exception of the Brooklyn one with Kevin Durant, they have a legitimate chance to win. And I think I think it's

been really cool to see. I think Frank Vogel he's not gonna get Coach of the Year just because there's better options, but he's he has proven, in my opinion, to be the best defensive coach in basketball. Uh. The fact that you can he could plug in play basically inferior defensive talent and put together a defense that competes like this, I think goes to show you where his

area of expertise is. He gets a lot of flak for what he does on the offensive end um, but what he's done with his defense, I think is is truly remarkable. Now, I think the Shrewder thing was interesting you mentioned, you know, how he was kind of sloppy with his handle. I think people, all basketball fans, have to kind of reframe the way that we analyze what an offensive basketball player in his role. So, for instance,

like that's what makes these superstars so amazing. Like Dennis, Shrewder is struggling because he's getting all the defensive attention. He's coming off the pick and roll, Miami's trapping them when he drives into the lane. Everybody's collapsing on him, everybody's reaching on Dennis. Everything is geared towards stopping Dennis because they know the rest of the roster isn't great at creating their own shot. And that's what makes the Lebrons and the KDIs and the Steps and all these

guys so amazing is they've been getting that their entire career. Literally, that's what they deal with. And you know, to Shrewder's credit, even though he struggled in a lot of ways turning the ball over creating his own shot, he did like draw enough attention that the other guys around him on the floor were able to get going. And I think that that is to his credit. He had a specific job and he's not a superstar, so he's not gonna have a ton of success as the number one option.

But he did draw attention. He did help get Wesley Matthews going, He helped get k CP going, He helped get everybody going just by eating up the primary defensive attention. And I think that there's value in that. And then to his credit, he's still defended on the other end. Yeah, like where he went with that with the superstars, because what do they do? They break down a defense, right, That's what superstars do. Now. The best ones like Lebron can manipulate a defense to do what he wants, but

most of the superstars, they can break down defense. Anthony Davis, Qui Leonard, any of those. Dennis Shrewder isn't that And also his height kind of makes makes up for that as well. So like last night, but there were some passes men like you knew that they were going to trap every single time, and he kept trying to throw that like jump pass out and it got stolen at least five times by Iguadala. Trevor Rea's a name another

wing that you know just picked him off. But yeah, he's not He's no more attacking an already collapse defense, because that's that's where I think he's best, right when Lebron breaks down, takes to the shoulder and now you have to stop his speed attacking the rim and that he can find like treads and he found treads a few times in the dunker spot last night. He did a nice job trying to control all the offense, tell KCP where to go, come off screens, and try to

run and keep things under control. But yeah, it's it's tough without those two. And you saw last night, like he he kept driving in the room trying to get contact. Miami got like eighteen three dolls in the first and I think he thought that he can kind of manipulate that as well. But yeah, it was it was nice to see that he kind of got it going late, like he was able to kind of control the offense later than early because early he had a lot of turnovers. But he got it going a little bit. He had

like a layup driving on BAM late. But yeah, it's tough without them, and it's kind of I don't think you should expect Shorter to really, you know, be able to replace those two. But still I think we can expect better from him. I mean, like he had a nice he had a nice amount of assists, but still I feel like he could have played a little bit better. Like those turnovers were just someone We're just giving them away. Like I think that was the worst Where's probably ball

handling game he's had as a Laker. But again that coincides with not having Lebron, so it's not not too unexpected. But you're right, like superstars, they've been a defense and he's not that yet. He's a really nice player, but expecting him to like fit that role. I thought Alice Cruiso did a nice job when he came in, but again he's kind of making the more simple place. So we're just trying to drive in and get his floaters all that stuff, and nothing was going, which which happens sometimes.

He was He was absolutely sloppy with the ball. That goes without saying there was a play to start. He had a sequence to start the second half where he like brought the ball up the floor and dribbled off his foot out of bounds, and then on the very next play like drove to the left and like through a swing pass right as the dude was cutting away from him and throw it out of bounds and then like two possessions later, he drives baseline and steps on the baseline. Like you could tell he was flat out

struggling with all that defensive attention. And you're right, like we we should expect him to be better than that. All I'm saying is that, like, you know, his job is hard right now, and and I think I think we all need to gain a new appreciation for uh, for the way that these stars have to deal with that type of defensive attention night in and night out. And you know, Bron Lebron is such an amazing job

of this. Like Lebron is like he's like, I'm literally going to manipulate the defense through passing, through finding openings so that I create openings for myself. You know, you see Dennis Shorter driving into the paint and there's just six set of arms around him, and and he's and he's The guys who are reaching in or knocking the ball lose with Lebron because he's able to to keep the defense spread with his passing ability. All of a sudden,

those driving lanes are there. Lebron is frequently called, you know, one of the best drivers of the basketball that that we see in the league right now, and it has it has a lot to do with his physical tools, but to me, the majority of it comes from his ability to pass the basketball. And that's the kind of stuff where you know, Dennis uh, he needs to uh. He's he came create places. He had a bunch of assists last night. He needs to see how that sort

of thing well, then open things up for him. But when Lebron and n D come back, you can see where he fits in the offense. It's gonna be attacking bigs on switches when there's more space, it's gonna be you know, he gets the screen and roll, they're gonna switch it. They're not gonna trap because if they trap Dennis and let Lebron and a D play four on three, they're gonna get absolutely destroyed. Things are just gonna open up more for him. And the same goes for Drummond.

We talk this is a good time to move over to drum and you know, he's not a good ball handler, and every time he puts the ball on the floor, I feel like he's gonna turn it over. He's just clumsy and he's sloppy, and he's the definition of a guy who has all sorts of natural ability, but just all of the fine detail type stuff in his game is off and it throws everything off for him. Um. But the bottom line is they're not going to ask him to do that ever. Uh, it's just not gonna

be his role. And like when they do throw it to him on the block, it's going to be because he has a specific mismatch, you know. And when he when he does put the ball on the floor, it's gonna be because he caught it in a pick and roll at the free throw line and the lane is cleared, and he's gonna be dribbling once and going into his statue of liberty dunk. Like that's that's gonna be the way his role is defined when he gets to that point.

And I just you know, I think they have a chance to win some of these games, and they do it through Dennis creating, creating everything and dumping the ball to Andre Drummond on the block. But that's not going to be their formula when Lebron and they d come back. Yeah, I said before, like those Drummond post ups are never going to be efficient. Like that's never gonna be a good shot right or something that analytics kind of proposes as a shot, but you know it can eat a possession.

And I think that's important because the lake, I mean, that's better than a turnover, right, and someone needs to shoot. I mean, in that starting lineup. To be fair to to Dennis, he's the only guy that can create a shot really, right, You're not gonna have KCP run ball screens and then the next the next only option is to give it to Drummond and let him try to post. He drew some fouls on bam Um, he had some

flip shots. He can get his own offensive rebound. He had a few nice putback dunks um early in the game. So yeah, and I thought he played well. I mean obviously, like I think people are more upset that Mark didn't get any minutes. But I think we discussed that, like this is just how it's gonna go. They want to see what they have, how drum is gonna play, fit him in and again fair to Dennis, like they were running some line up plus night they had McKinney malcolmore

out there with Dennis Drummond. Like it was just a weird line of people don't know when to cut when to stay there um malcolmore cut I think one time and Dennis threw it out of bounds or McKinney did the same thing late in the game. So yeah, I think it was a really nice game and drum is gonna help a lot. You could see his physicality. He was able to move Bam off his spot. He was able to um kind of stay there in the post Bam was Bam hit a few mid range jumpers, but

I think you live with that. So I think him and A d like that's where I was looking. I want to get your kind of thought on this, because when I was watching Drummond last night, I just kept imagining him next to Anthony Davis, another really leaping guy. When he's healthy, you can jump, double jump, triple jump, and then kind of like you know, stay grounded, get rebounds, offensive rebounds. So what do you think about when those two kind of play together, how how they'll be able

to fit on the floor. Well, it's a natural fit. I mean the reality is is like you know, uh, A Drummond is good at kind of patrolling around the paint, which gives Anthony Davis the ability to roam a little bit because Anthony Davis is Anthony Davis was so good last year on switches when they would you know, he gets switched on to Jamal Murray, he gets switched on to quiet and he'd be able to play defense out in space, but the Lakers would typically get hurt on

the back end on the offensive glass. And and a lot of that had to do with the fact that they couldn't play Dwight er Javail for various reasons. And if if Drummond proves to be, you know, talented enough to continue to play, then he kind of resolves that problem. You know, I thought he was good holding his ground

against Bam as well. When he did lose him for those midrange jump shots, it was typically because he was helping, Like they were wide open jump shots for Bam, because Andre was in rotation, he was he was helping elsewhere on the floor. That's his job, that's what he's doing in the defense, and you prefer to give up that

type of shot to Bam. Um with Anthony Davis, it's more or less, like I said, the ability to have Anthony Davis defend force and by allowing Anthony Davis to defend fours, you have this like crazy, freaky lanky dude flying around, chasing dudes off the line, and and and guarding the other team's perimeter player. Because you have Andre Drummond, you can play or traditional defensive center. It's just a

flexibility thing. And and with Marcusol, who has been okay as a defensive five this year, and and with Montrese Harold, they just didn't have that piece who could kind of really like kind of re established that same defensive identity they had last year with Dwight Um. The other thing with Drummond that I thought was interesting is like I don't know how you weaponize this, because I feel like throwing the ball to Drummond in the post when with

Lebron and a d is kind of a waste. But man like like guys can't guard him, but like he misses, he misses shots, but like like guys can't guys can't guard him, Like he's he's he's got enough speed and enough strength that he gets to his shot, Like he gets to his his little sweeping hook and like, yeah, he's gonna miss it a lot, and like Miami fouled

him a lot yesterday. And it was just one of those things where I remember sitting there thinking like, I don't I don't know that you ever go to this, But like, I don't feel like it's a complete waste to dump it down to him on the block, because I do feel like there's a high percentage chance that he's going to either get to the rim or get fouled. I just I just don't necessarily think it's a it's a It should be anything more than just a bail out.

Like Lebron's running the bench lineup eighties on the bench. Lebron is is kind of fatigued because he's been really aggressive over the last three possessions. It's not the end of the world to throw it into drum and for something like that, whereas with Dwight, I never felt like he was as successful at drawing fouls and getting to

his spots offensively. Yeah, it's kind of like last year and they would just throw it into jabail and be like, hey go crazy, you know, like, hey go have a possession like this is yours, and where if Lebron was tired or a d didn't feel like doing it, you know, and he would he would get a look at the rim, he choots some skyhook and then it wouldn't really go in very many times. But I think drums a little

better than Jabel in terms of like posting up. He does a good job of like Duckins right, he gets really low and he has a really nice wide basse that he gives the ball handler a nice target. I thought he got a really nice he got a he got a couple of really nice baskets download doing that he got fouled. He had like four straight free throws last night, which was nice seeing him hit his free throws as well. But yeah, like I don't think the post is gonna be anything that they use when it matters.

But again, right now, with no really offensive options Kuzma also we don't know if he's back um tomorrow as well, so that's the only real option here. It's either shrewder high screen or roll um if KCP has a going coming off screens, and then it's Drummond in the post trying to get fouled um. He has some nice passes as well. Um last night I was seeing he had a nice pass to Crusoe on the cut. He found

West Matthew for a few threes. So it's not like a black hole when it goes down there, right, Like Treads, if he Treads gets the ball in the post, he's shooting every time. Now that's an efficient shot, but he's gonna shoot it every time. I think Treads is like I think Tim cran just ms mcbasketball. He uh said that Tread's had like five times he kicked out in like a hundred post possessions. So when he gets it, when he gets the ball download, he's shooting it. I

think Drummonds a little bit more. He'll kick it out, he'll find shooters, um, So it's not like he's just gonna get there and shoot every time. But like for some reason he pulls out the Kyrie handles, he tries to in and out dribble reverse when he's at the rim when he could just dunk it. Those are the kind of frustrating things, but I think you'll live with that for now. His defense was great. I thought he played really well, So I think that was really nice.

I feel like last night was his debut and like the Milwaukee game kind of. I mean, after that first quarter, it was pretty much he was playing on one leg or one toe or nine toes, however you want to say it. But Yeah, I think last night was his debut,

and I thought he played really well. Yeah, and like the passing out of the post was interesting, Like he he's a rocket thrower, Like he's here, like he's got big hands you can pull on the ball and you can tell like his favorite thing to do is just kind of like back him down and wait for one of the help defenders to just give like a little bit of like a strike zone for him to just launch a past two um and then that passed to Alex Caruso was actually really not so it was one

of the few times where he handled the ball pretty well, like didn't lose control of the ball, ball right, and then uh, just overall, like I think, I think, I think you and I talked before his first game that we kind of expected this first stage of the Drummond experience to be a little sloppy, and and it has. It's been good and bad. But I think we I think we all expect more from him in a specific role in Lebron and Nindy come back. What did you

think of Ben McLamore's debut. Yeah, so I feel like he was trying to force it at least I thought the whole team was trying to kind of get him shots, right. I think his first one was like a step back three. He hit one. He took a really quick one in the corner. But like I saw, he had one where he was fouled by Duncan Robinson coming off the screen, And we don't have any other shooter who shoots like that, who can square up. He caught it squared on the curl,

got right up into a shot, he got fouled. Um, And I think he's gonna be great at Like, I think it's funny. I don't think Casey p played well last night because of Ben Malckamore. I don't think it hurt though, to like have another shooter to like play your role right, like, oh now my legs are feeling a little bit better now I can now I'm gonna run a little bit more, you know. So Um, I

thought he kind of impacted that. But yeah, it was cool to see a guy that's in the corner that teams have to respect, Like teams have to fight over the screen over him. He's not a great guy coming on screens, but they can't cheat, they can't go under. I could do one. Alice Crusoe like they do on you know, other shooters. Cruso shooting forty one from three, but he's still not respected as a shooter like Ben Malcolmore is. He's stick him in the corner. It's hard

to help off of. Um. But I thought he kind of forced it last night, which is expected. But he had one I think he's only made field goal was like a one where he's coming off the screen out of bounds and he hit like a fading jumper in the third. But I thought he was good. I thought his defense was fine. Um, I didn't think. I didn't see anything wrong, Like I didn't. I didn't think he was a liability or anything last night. Like, I thought he'd fit in to the scheme pretty well. Um, how

about you, what do you see from him? Yeah, Defensively, I thought he fit into the scheme perfectly, which is what I predicted, just because it's like his skill set is perfect for what Frank Vogel asks from the guards. Um. Offensively, I thought he was forcing some things. I mean, it was kind of exactly what I expected in the sense that like, and didn't get any good looks last night. Like it wasn't like Ben was out there missing open shots,

like he was forcing things because nothing was open. And that's gonna change dramatically when he's playing with Lebron and a D. There were a couple of plays KCP when Lebron and a D are out, his his whole focus on offensively shifts to like I'm gonna get mine, you know, and he's a little bit more aggressive off the bounce. And for the record, he was great last night shooting the basketball, so I'm not trying to say that he

shouldn't be. But I thought there were there were a handful of plays where if KCP would have made an extra pass or if he was in his more traditional clothes out make a quick decision type of mind frame, that he would have hit Ben in the corner. There were two in the second half where I thought he had wide open shots that k CP missed him. Um that kind of thing, the thing I think is gonna come back in time. But you're right. I mean, he

gives you that weapon. The guy that can fly off the screens and is is a little bit more a dept at drawing fouls, kind of like Terence Ross type of vibe. Back up the shooting guard who can just fly off the screens and pull from anywhere. Um. I tend to think that his his extremely quick release is perfect for the Laker offense because one of Lebron's favorite things to do, it's like an energy saving thing, is out of the post or from the top of the

key and kind of like the Marcos al spot. He'll just kind of survey the floor and just catch that one help defender that's just a step too close to the paint, and he'll just launch like a rocket pass. And like Lebron basically pre communicates whether it's before the game or before the play, like hey, if I hit you with this type of pass, I need you to shoot right away, because it's almost like an energy saving play used to do with j R. Smith all the time.

He does it with KCP still now, but it's like Ben McLamore's really quick release is perfect for that. And I tend to think, like, I wasn't an amazing, you know, starry debut by any stretch of the imagination, but I have a feeling that he's actually going to be one of their crunch time eyes when it comes to it, uh, like even more than maybe a KCP, just because of the fact that I don't know if you noticed, but

kcp's defense hasn't been great lately. And and uh, I think I think Ben mclimore is a little bit more consistent shooting and a little bit better of an athlete. I think it gives him a chance to earn some of those minutes, particularly with the closing group. I remained very bullish on on Ben mcamore. Yeah, you're really high on him. I I don't know if he'll be in the closing lineup. I think that's gonna be tough. We have. You know, he's got to beat out Carusoe, KCP, all

those other guards. But yeah, it's just cool. I mean, if he's hitting shots, he's gonna play. And um, I thought last night it kind of showed. He also hit all his free throws right, he was like four or four from the line. He's a good free throw shooter as well, just to add into that. And he's really athletic. You don't think of him as like some athletic guard, but I mean he does run up the floor, he runs to those corners, he gets to his spots. Um again,

I thought he was pressing last night. And he's another guy that I would just temper expectations until Lebron andy d you get back because those shots are gonna be even more wide open. But um, he had like all those passes that like, you can't trap that way that Miami did. If Lebron's on the court, right, you just can There's no way you can trap like that. So last time his shots were a lot more contested. I

thought all his threes were pretty contested. I think maybe one was open, but I remember that first one went in and out, and he took another really contested one at the corner was also contested. So he'll get open looks of the Lakers, and uh, he hit his only real open shot, I thought, But yeah, he was. He

was good. He's I think it's nice to have someone like we all all played like you don't you don't want someone right behind you, right Ksep knows that, hey, that's his spot, like Casey knows what Ben Malcolmore is there to do, Like he knows that he's a shooter and if he's not playing well, your minutes will be taken. So I think it's nice to have that little healthy competition there because Malcolmore is gonna want minutes and it's it's cool to have another shooter that you can rely

on as insurance in case we don't have one going. Yeah, I mentioned in the in the locker room pot uh, and I really do feel this way right now already Ben McLamore is the best athlete in the back court and he's the best shooter in the back work and I think that gives him a realistic chance if he embraces the defensive end and if his shot selection kind of matches with what the Lakers ask of him, and quite frankly, if you make shots, I see him potentially

being an extremely valuable piece there. Like I mentioned, he was actually on that Houston Rockets team, their very best catching shoot shooter. And the bottom line is if you leave him open, if you leave him open, he's going to be in that mid forties forty four percent type of dude when he's wide open and uh and just catching shoot scenarios, he's gonna be around that mark as well. If he if he defends anywhere near what his athleticism is capable of in this Laker defense, I think he's

gonna be really valuable. And so I I think it was a fantastic signing a no brainer fit and uh I I mentioned this on Twitter yesterday. I think that, uh, I think that, you know, one of the problems last year, and it was an organizational down thing, was that they would occasionally have some inferior defensive performances where and it started with Lebron and a D they'd be a sloppy

and then all everybody would be really sloppy. And having the depth that Ben McLamore brings, having six like bona fide guards that can play in your rotation and uh, it just adds an accountability to the defensive effort type of stuff and makes it so that you're you really can't afford to slack off because there's just gonna be a better option than you if you're if you're slacking

on the other end. Um. But yeah, is there anything I'm missing from last night's game in particular that was interesting? Uh No, I mean I thought it was a really fun game. I think Miami is just like better equipped than most to kind of switch everything really trapped and again without it's funny th HD, I'm a little higher I think on TSD than you, But I think he would have helped last night another ball handler right. Also Kuzma was out. Kuzma was not a ball handler, but

another guy you can throw it to. Uh, to kind of mitigate those Allphonso MCKINNI, Malcolm Moore minutes where it's just really tough to kind of stay upfloat and then Jimmy Butler took over. What she's gonna do. I thought it was funny, like Andre Drummond switched on him. Jim Butler take a contested midrange jumper. I thought that was the defense, but they just hit it and he said like, don't do that or something like that, don't switch. So that was kind of fun those I see them stay competitive.

They could have They could have folded a few times, right, Miami went up like ten or eleven. Oladipo looked like fine, I guess before he got hurt. Sadly he got hurt late. But I thought they defended really well. Um and they kind of I mean, they kind of held Jimmy Butler bam too. A little bit of their averages, which all which is all you can ask in in that kind of game. And uh, no one really went went too crazy on them. So they had a shot, which is all you can ask and that kind of I thought

the fouls though, I mean, it was just weird. When you give up eighteen three Tholles in the first quarter, it's kind of tough to catch up to that, Like it's the game is just that's that's really tough to kind of mitigate as the game goes on. So, uh, if they can not do that against Brooklyn, they're not gonna be favorite at all against Brooklyn, But um, they if they can just keep it close, why not give him a chance. Yeah. I liked their chances against Brooklyn

a lot more when Katie wasn't playing right. But yeah, the competition has been the most impro us a thing to me as well. Like, you know, after their first couple of games without Lebron and A d Uh, you know, in one of our pods, we talked about how the

team just didn't really feel like they could win. There wasn't like that aura that surrounded the team for them to go in there last night down basically four of their top five offensive shock Craders literally Lebron and A. D. Kuzma and talent Norton Tucker and basically Ride with a bunch of defenders and and Dennis Shrewder and to compete like that and don't forget like that was a I don't want to say a must win for Miami, but it was a really important game for Miami because they're

in the middle of a big standings battle and they just tricked off a game to Memphis at home. We're Memphis basically just took it to him and beat him by like twelve I think so like it was one of those games where I guarantee you Eric Spoils Strew, Jimmy Butler and all the guys in that locker room were like, we gotta get this one. And the Lakers came in their severely undermanned and and we're within three points halfway through the third quarter, halfway through the fourth quarter.

So I agree with you. I've been I've been super impressed with this team. I was looking at the schedule yesterday and uh, correct me if I'm wrong. But the remaining games, it was Miami, and then it was like Brooklyn, and then it was like the New York Knicks, and then the Boston Celtics, and then there was one more in there. I can't remember exactly what it was, but they were all relatively winnable games. Do you remember, Yeah, I think they play the Hornets before they play the Celtics.

I think that sounds But like, so basically this five game stretch before Lebron and Adie hopefully come back on the seventeen, Like I was like like two weeks. God never would have thought they could win these games, but all of them are possible. I mean, I think Brooklyn beat him, but I mean they can absolutely beat Charlotte. Charlotte without Gordon Hayward and without LaMelo Ball Um, Boston is basically regress to a five hundred basketball team, which

is which is ridiculous. And and then the New York Knicks are basically more or less the same team as the Lakers. They're just an extremely well coached, extremely physical, defensive oriented team that doesn't have a lot of shot creations. So it'll be kind of a battle of of matching archetypes. Uh. And so I think you know, there are four and six,

there's four games left potentially in this stretch. If they somehow get to you know, six and six and eight in that stretch, that would be such a huge win. Um to have Lebron and Nadi come back. UM. And then obviously LEBRONI a D back will They'll probably come

with some sort of limited minutes type of deal. And having having the the the ability to play basketball without them these two that they've built up over the stretch gives them the ability to kind of ease Lebron and a D back into it, and I think that sets them up for success. Yeah, if they can just at least get one of them back, Like if a D comes back in that Celtics game, it would kind of level the talent gap that's been that's been going on right because a lot of these teams are just in

Miami just has way more talent. It's kind of going down the line. I think they can kind of match challenge with New York and probably the Hornets as well. But like you know, if you just get one of them back, you kind of mitigated And yeah, six and eight is great. People were asking if they were gonna win lose twelve and row and I think we talked about it. That was never gonna happen. They were never

gonna go on some crazy losing straight. The team's defense is too good, um, But yeah, I'd be exciting if you get one in the back. A lot of people are going off Lebron's Instagram post where he's like, you know, I think he said something really corny about the rain He's coming soon or something like that where he said

they'll they'll bull will be back soon. But yeah, like I think they'll be great and a d I think really came into the season we talked about a lot, like he really like slowly walked himself through what you could tell he was not excited to come back that soon. So I think a nice break will give him some rush, some like urgency into it, even if it's on a minute restriction, you know. But I think he'll come back

playing hard and kind of show who he is. I mean, he's been passed up in the media by every big you know, they have your kitchen beat all those dudes above them, and we talked about this, he's talented enough to be number one on that kind of list. So um, I think he'll come back with some urgency and just give take some of the pressure off of Dennis Shrewder, off of you know, all those other guys that are

creating shots when they shouldn't be. So um. Yeah, if they get him back by by the fifteen, and we'll have fans back by then as well. Hopefully that kind of changes the home court as Staples as well, So all that kind of goes into it. And uh, it'd be cool if if he comes back soon. If they can get at least I think they can get the Knicks and Hornets game. I don't think they'll get the Brooklyn game. I mean that's not really fair, but yeah, I think the Hornets and the the Knicks game is

definitely winnable. Yeah, if and that would be that would get enough to make this entire operation of success. And then if you somehow managed because the Cellist game is on the fifteenth and Mark Steins of the a D might come back on the seventeenth. Now who knows when they're coming back. I mean it might even be further than that. But yeah, like stealing a couple more is

enough to make this a resounding success. Before we moved to the Katie Podcast, I wanted to get your thoughts on just a couple of league wide things, so I U I had a take from earlier in the season about how I thought that Phoenix was better than Utah. I mean, the main reason was just because of the fact that I thought that their roster made more sense for what I usually think is going to become a successful playoff team, right because they've got a bunch of

these switchable wings. Like they didn't even play Michael Bridges much at the end of the uh at the end of the the Utah game because they favored the shooting with Cam Johnson. But Michael Bridges is not a bad option, and he can shoot the ball, and uh, Cam Johnson has just been defending so well that they've been opting for him instead of Michale and their crunch time lineups. But their crunch time line ups they're basically playing like

Jay Crowder big switching forward. They're playing DeAndre Ayton, who who actually has defended pretty well. Uh. He took a couple of bad shots at the end of that overtime game, but like more or less he's developed into what like at least a serviceable center that they can play in that lineup. And then they just took turns with Chris Paul and Devin Booker, these two alpha dog superstars, and and they just got I thought they got better shots than Utah. Donovan Mitchell, as great as he is, went

full West broken that game. And it's like there were there were times where it actually made more sense to go to Bugdanovitch because he had a better matchup or whatever it was. And you know, I think, I think that's gonna be the death of Utah as they just leaned too heavily on Donovan Mitchell. But I thought that you Phoenix lost to the Clippers last night. It was textbook tail end of a back to back. They shot like crap from three. Their defense wasn't quite where it was.

The Clippers shot the lights out. It wasn't as much of a meaningful matchup. In my opinion, I thought it was really impressive what they did to Utah. Um, they really won that game in regulation if it wasn't for a crazy little spurt from Donovan Mitchell at the end, and then they out executed them in overtime pretty convincingly. Their roster just makes sense to me as a playoff roster.

They got the alpha dogs, that got all the switching wings, They've got a physical presence inside they they they have everything they need. I would say that they are like right up there with Denver as like this second and third best teams in the West went healthy. I'd go Lakers one I'd go Phoenix in Denver. I'd have the Clippers right below them, although I do think there's still a good match up for the Lakers. What did you What did you think? Did you watch that Son's Jazz

game at all? I did? Yeah, it's really it's really fascinating because, like we talked about, a lot of the playoffs are all matchup kind of dependent, right. I mean, Utah was blowing through the regular season. They're on a back to back as well the other night and they blew out Portland's because I think it's a bad matchup for them, but the shots that Utah gives up is like what Chris Paul wants, right, Like I follow some Clipper fans that they are like Chris Paul is love

playing Utah since you know two thousand and fourteen. Remember Gobert was drafted because they played this drop coverage Goberts in the back. Now back, Gobert can switch a little bit more than he used to, but still he's giving up that mid range jumper, and that's exactly what Chris Paul wants. That's exactly what Devin Booker wants. And those two come off little screens from Eton and he gets a little mid range jumper and he hit a few to kind of ice the game, I think against against Utah.

So that's a fascinating matchup. I think they're really close together. Like I don't think there's a a gap between Phoenix and Utah. I think Denver is like a little bit right above them, and I put the Clippers right there as well. So that's a hell of the top three or four in the West. Um and all those teams. My only issue with Phoenix, I don't know about what you think, is like they play a lot of young guys. Like, there's a lot of young guys on that team. DeAndre

Aden is what in his second or third year. Devin Brooker is about his first playoffs, um, and Den brook is awesome, but again his first playoffs. UM, Michael Bridges as a young dude. Cam Johnson looks eighteen like out there, like he looks absolutely he looks for really young out there. So that's the only issue with Phoenix is that they play a lot of really young guys. I think, sorry, h at the five is kind of is an interesting

thing for them that they run a lot UM. I thought that the Clippers really attack that, So yeah, I like the Phoenix team. I like Utah. I think that's a toss up series honestly, Like, I think that's pretty close. Um Denver as well. So that's the only issue. What do you do you think that's an issue of Phoenix, Like I see them playing a lot of really young

young guys, which I mean it should be fine. They're very switchable and on defense there they can shoot, but definitely issue when I go into a seven game like playoff series with them. The reason why I'm not necessarily worried about it is I think that, um, I think that the Chris Paul element kind of outweighs that. You know, I'll give you an example, like they weren't young players, but the Lakers picked up a lot of players last year that people just didn't think we're gonna amount too much.

But when you when there's an organization down, you know, expectation of certain things that I think that I think that everybody just kind of lives up to that expectation out of necessity. And I think, like you know, if you think about the things that are translatable to the playoffs, right, like you, uh, you need to have something, you need to have a functioning defense, Well, the Suns have a

great defense. They're that that's going to translate. Well, it's not like their youth is going to suddenly sap them of the ability to defend in a playoff series. And then your SuperStar's ability to create extremely high end shots also translates to the playoffs. And you know, we don't know about Booker right, Like we have no idea what

he looks like in a playoff game. However, I've seen enough basketball to know, like, like, how I tell me he's not going to be better than Jamal Murray in a playoff series, Like the only thing Jamal Murray has over him his reps. And I would argue that that, I would argue that Booker is actually significantly better, Like he's just not significantly, but he's a better player. And I think I think that that gives him the ability to tap into the same type of of looks that

Jamal Murray gets in a playoff series. And so I think they I think they make a ton of sense. Now. I do think it was interesting when they put Royce O'Neil on Devin Booker. He wasn't able to get separation as much, and uh, he did some work in overtime against Mitchell where he got to a shot from the free throw line and he got a couple of good looks um but Mitchell at the end of regulation forced him into that tough step back. The point being they

forced him into really tough shots. I thought the higher quality shots that got down the stretch was actually Chris Paul and pick and roll and even then, like even then, like he there was one where Rudy Gobert like was kind of there and then dropped away on the baseline and Chris Paul made it. And then there were a couple that Rudy Gobert got really good contests on and

he missed. And so when I think about the Lakers defending him, you know, chances are Booker is gonna be going up against someone along the lines of Wesley Matthews, a guy that he's not gonna be able to physically bully,

and he's going to force him into tough shots. And then with Chris Paul, what the Lakers are gonna do is they're going to pound him from behind on those pick and rolls, so he'll he won't be able to get into his shot because Dennis Shooter is gonna chase him over the top and basically be reaching down over the top. The Lakers are really good at forcing guys out of any sort of shot attempt, a shot attempt in the pick and roll. It's actually one of the

biggest strengths, at least from a guard. They have weaknesses when it comes to bigger wings guys that can take advantage of their smaller guards, But they're really good at taking the dames and the steps and and those kinds of guys out of their game with their picking roll coverage is being so aggressive over the top of the screen. And so I I think the Lakers are still a

good matchup for them. Yeah. Uh, when you actually break it down to matchups, they're good against everybody, right, Like I mean, the Lakers can take Rudy Gobert out of the paint by just having Anthony Davis spot up shoot, and they can chase guys off the three point line with the best in the league. So that kind of cancels out a lot of what Utah does really well. And I think that in and from an i Q standpoint, I just trust Lebron to out execute Donovan Mitchell at

the end of a playoff game, I just do. And then you look at Phoenix, like I just said, they can chase Chris Paul over the top of the screens, and Devin Booker doesn't quite have the size to really victimize the smaller Laker guards. And then you look at Denver Okay, Murray yokes picking Roll, Well, guess what you're gonna put Lebron in a D on that now they can just switch it. It will literally shut down the action.

And then on the other end, it's like you want Aaron Gordon to guard Lebron, Okay, cool, that means that Yokich is gonna guard a d which he can't. And then someone's gotta guard Drummond. So you're gonna put Yoki on Drummond, which means that you're gonna have to put Michael Porter Jr. Either On Lebron or on Aaron or or on Anthony Davis. So there's just they can't guard

the Lakers. They the matchups that they give up on the on the defensive end are gonna be significantly worse than what the Lakers can do to cancel out a lot of what a lot of what Denver does on the other end. The Clippers are the only team where you look at the matchups and you go, the Lakers can force Kauai into fade aways, but he might make you know what I mean, Like he might. You can force Paul George to take a bunch of jumpers off

the dribble, but he might make them. And the question just becomes, can the Clippers make enough off the dribble jump shots four games out of seven to be the Lakers? I don't think they can, but that is a risk. There is an actual potential there for them to get that done. And so that's why I like, it's easy for me to see the Lakers if they get healthy going on a run. They have them the requisite matchups

to win the specific series along the way. And did you catch that Clippers um the Clippers Sons game last night? We would catch the whole thing, Okay, So it's interesting. I thought at the end, um, they really made a tough time for Chris Paul. They were switching a lot of their screens, so they had like Paul George and Kauai basically switching on them, and then Devin Booker as well had to be defending one of the big wings

and it kind of looked like the Damon c J problem. Right, two guards that are a little bit smaller than normal than regular guards, and that's a tough time getting a shot off. So I thought that was kind of interesting. And obviously Aiden is not a guy that I don't think they want to throw it too in the clutch right now. But he had a good game. Um, he played well. I thought he made zoo box really work. Box really works. So I think I think that's their issue to me with the Phoenix is like he gets

to play offf time. You have big wings, uh, big strong wings defending these guards, like can they get the shot off? Um, they had like Paul George Chase over the top and then they had their big kind of switch out and defend his jump shots and he couldn't really get a shot off at the end of that game. And now it's a back to back and I understand, like you probably didn't have his legs, but I thought that was kind of interesting. So I think they all

have like interesting matchups together. I think your kids probably really beats up on Colbert. Um. He plays really well against him. So it's all these weird kind of match and then Jamal Murray and Donovan Mitchell turn into like the second coming of Michael Jordan's when they play each other, which is just really strange. But uh, but yeah, they both are like really streaky guards with like really strong

pull up jumpers and when it's going, it's going. So those are two to match up there will be fun. But again, when you have Lebron and a d I think that's when that's the big matchup the Lakers have, and that's and they have guards that defend really well and I think they match up well. But the West is really good this year, so it's it's fun to

see all these teams. It sucks because all these teams are pretty much hitting their stride right now, Like you could see like all the teams trying of figuring out what they want to do every night, and the Lakers kind of have to postpone that because they don't have their team yet. So you're seeing all these teams. Denver's playing well, Phoenix, Utah, all these teams are really starting to click and figure out their playoff kind of rotation and the Lakers kind of have to wait for that.

But again, they built bit a lot of chemistry last year and hopefully that kind of continues. But it's cool seeing the West being this this good right now, it's so good. All these teams are like they're they're legitimately like uh five bona fide potential championship contenders in the West between Denver, Utah, Phoenix and then the two l A teams. Um. The the the Blazers are kind of faltering a bit, but I think they'll figure things out.

I think Norman Powell makes them better. I just think they haven't really figured out how to integrate him yet. And then and then you know, Dallas is more or less interesting as well. But yeah, I think I think the most interesting thing to me with the Lakers is they always have these like aces in the whole that other teams can't go to, putting Lebron in a t a D on your two best players so that you can't run pick and roll. Um. I think the Lakers are by far the best trapping team in the league

when it comes to trapping pick and roll. They're so good at making you pick up your dribble fet from the basket and then as soon as the butt dribbles picked up, recovering back and starting this chaotic rotation. So like, even if Chris Paul, who by the way, struggled in isolation against the bigger guards against the Clippers last night, even if Chris Paul starts lightening you up, the Lakers can start trapping and so like and and and they

feel comfortable in that sort of situation. So in a playoff series, the Lakers have these aces in the whole E D at the five where they can create space offensively Lebron and a D on your two best players that you can't switch pick and rolls, and then them their ability to trap pick and rolls with their guards. I just like their ability to to kind of uh have a bunch of different options to attack you defensively. And then now I think they have more than enough shooting.

I mean I do. I I cannot believe how good Mark Morris looks. And he didn't he wasn't shooting well from three last night, but like he he's become the guy kind of like Marcus Morris is for the Clippers, where like you can't just put a bum on him because he's score like, and I don't want him to shoot too much when Lebron and n A D come back, because that's what hurts the Clippers with Morris sometimes. But I do think that like he's he's just better than

he was last year. I don't know if he was just in the gym with his brother all summer or what the deal is. He's better than he was last year. Yeah, he's another VET, kind of like Wes Matthews who started picking up late. You know, that short offseason I think really hurt him. Um and I talked to about it in the summer. I thought getting him for like the vet minimum was robbery, Like like, I don't know how you watch that playoffs and think like he's not a

helpful player. I don't know how he didn't. Now maybe the Lakers have something for him this summer. I don't know, but like I was just surprised they were able to contain him. And what's amazing is, like you talked about that chaotic nous with the defense right when they trapped and they have people running around right now, that's Martie Morris on the back line, Like that's that's who is on the pack line. He's real protecting, he's getting out to shooters. He had Like did you see his defense

on Jimmy Butler last night? He had like a really nice contest on Jimmy Butler made him air ball, I think, and uh, I'm just imagining, like that guy turns into Anthony Davis, that guy turns into Lebron James eventually, but right now, it's West. It's a MARKI Morris, you know, fronting out the back line and protecting the rim. And he got ejected last night, and I thought it was funny. But and then his brother got ejected in the next game.

But you could tell like he you could tell he cares right like he doesn't he like he doesn't care that A d and Lebron are out. He wanted to win last night and I thought he got fouled. But again, that was a tough time to get two technicals that kind of put the game away. It was I think it was like a six point game, and then Miami had two free throes and from there was over. But yeah, like his his passion, his fight, He's playing really well. He's another guy that can get his own shot right

in that starting lineup. He's like, he can give the ball to in the post, doesn't matter who it is. If he has a little bit of a size advantage, she'll hit his little fade away, his pull up. He has a nice to dribble pull up that he goes to. So yeah, he's been playing great. Um. He had a few big threes to kind of stem the tide a little bit and keep the game closed. And it's cool to see him going. That's a good part about this stretch, right. It's gotten some guys going who who wouldn't have been

able to because they wouldn't have got the shots. I think like West is able to take five threes a game. You know, Mark, he was able to hold the ball, dribble, kind of feel feel the rhythm and kind of get going. So hopefully that kind of keeps up. And if we had to take a loss to get KCP going, I think everyone would have took it. So if it gets all those three guys going, um, it'll be great when

those two those two get back. Yeah, he Mark kif because of his growth defensively this year, I think he looks a little thinner than he did to start the season, a little thinner even than he was last year. He gives you just another wing option. Defensively, I don't like him defending in space. He's not good against quickness, but

That's why he succeeded against Jimmy Butler. Is when it comes to the guards who play like physical offense, like getting beating a guy to a spot and then bumping him off to get to a spot, the uh markief just gives you another option there. And so now the Lakers when they get to get to a khil entered matchup, it's used to be like it's just Lebron and Kuzma, but now it's like, there's Lebron, there's Kyle Kuzma. You can always throw Anthony Davis at one of those guys.

And then MARKI Morris has turned into more or less that type of option. And then Wesley Matthews, even though he's short, actually kind of has a gift for guarding bigger, physical forwards. Um. So, I wanted to talk about the the the podcast, the Kevin Durant podcast yesterday, so to frame this discussion, you and I talked a little bit about this before. Um, but I want to I want to pay Kevin Durant a compliment because you know, most people know I'm a Lebron fan. It's not something I

try to hide. He's the guy that got me interested in basketball. So I have a little royalty there, I guess you could call it. But I also love Kevin Durant. I know I don't. People think I hate him, but it's just I've had to root against him over the years and that's not paying the ask because he's really

really good. Um, But I think I think he's kind of become the anti Lebron in a lot of ways, in the sense that as much as I love Lebron as a basketball player, like the dude, I find him to be unlikable sometimes in terms of the way he portrays himself to the world because it's very you're meeting his representative, it's very I don't want to say fake, but it's just very like filtered and not genuine all

the time. And ever since Kevin Durant had that incident with the Burner accounts, this dude is just like here, I here's who I am taking or leave it, And in that podcast, it felt like you were getting unfiltered Kevin Durant, Like you know, I think, like I think when it comes to human beings like that is by far far more or interesting approach. Not pretending like you're perfect, not pretending like you're you don't ever have struggles or

that you don't have downsides to your personality. You can be a nice guy and also be an asshole one day. We all have our moments like that, and so I think, like Katie really embracing that genuine this is who I am. I don't care that you're not meeting like a very pitician type of personality. I don't care. This is how I prefer to portray myself. I think it makes him

way more likable. And I think, like, honestly, like I think, I think it's it's been really really cool to see and it makes it makes it makes those sorts of podcasts and things like that way more fun to listen to because you feel like you're actually getting something out of it and all in all, I just I just thought it was a really entertaining podcast. Yeah. I like how you kind of frame that, because Lebron kind of feels like so far right, like like you can't reach

Lebron right. You kind of think about he's like playing on the cord, he's doing movies, Like, he's not a guy that's like like you can talk to. I guess Katie is online a lot. He's a guy that I feel like you can feel like you can get a reply from if you reply to him in a certain way, if you come out and respectively or even I guess not respectively. A lot of people come at him really sideways and they get they get responses, but like he's just a guy that, like it feels like you can

talk to And then that podcast was great. It felt like it felt like a guy you know at the twenty four right, like a guy that you know who plays really well and you can talk ship with after and you could talk about the game with and he's like, he'll be like, oh, yeah, you suck that game, and you know you could like you could talk to him in that way. That's what Kivin Durant came off of. For me, it felt very genuine. It felt like a

guy who just wants to hoop. Like he did not sound like this huge guy who has you know, a marketing marketing agency and has you know, shows and you know it's a millionaire whatever. He didn't feel like any of that. I just felt like a normal dude who plays basketball who wants to talk hoops, who was like, who doesn't want to see a graph when he's talking hoops.

You know, who doesn't want to see um field goal percentage when he's when we're having a hoop conversation, as he'll say, So it was just really cool to see him kind of talk about that, And I think that's important. I think we need guys like that in the media that are out out and because he's the best at what he does, he's a superstar and the stuff that we're talking about, so like it. He knows more than

I'll ever forget about basketball. So it's kind of cool to see a guy like that come out in a podcast and be so genuine and have real conversations about what goes on on the court. Well, the fans have

something to really gain from it that way. Like that that that's the interesting part to me is like you know, I I feel like like man, like I would love to just sit and talk basketball with him for like an hour and just pick his brain about Like to me, the very interesting thing to him is like, uh, his particularly you know, we jokingly call it the bag, but like his his specific scoring skill set, and like how you developed that over the years, Like what's how do

you bridge the gap between like uh, working on something in the gym by yourself, to making it work in practice, to making it work in a game, like what what is what are the thresholds that you try to hit before you try to attempt to do something in a game? You know, all, I think there's so much that I think you can learn from somebody like that when they're

actually being genuine. And you know, when Lebrons in a podcast, like when he's with r J and Shanning, like r J and Shanning try really hard to get into open up, but it's just you know, you'll get some jokes out of him. You know, it's just you're always meeting his representative.

And I just think, I objectively think that the that the Kevin Durant approach is a more likable approach, even if it does expose you to people talking trash about what you might say on Twitter or things along those lines. When the funny part is is, like you know, the reality is is that's that's the way everybody is. We're just just some people filter it in a different way. And and I don't know, I just think it's likable.

But I did want to talk about a couple of things that he specifically mentioned in the podcast so the second part that we'll get to is the analytics part.

But the first thing that he said was interesting was he was talking about the Warriors and he was like the two seventeen Warriors and and uh, I think Banski asked him basically something more along the lines of, like, you know, what did it feel like, you know, walking into every gym and just feeling like you were better than everybody and that you were gonna win and and you know, be more or less said felt good, but you also said, like, you know, he also said, like

we you know, we weren't uh like physically better than everybody. We outsmarted people and we actually had to play smart basketball to win these games. Now he's not wrong, but this is something This is a bone I've picked with

Katie forever. The he always, he had a half dozen different occasions and different podcasts and different formats, has complained about this idea that uh that he approaches the game through a skill perspective and the Lebrons of the world approached the game through uh athleticism perspective and they're just

physical brutes. And always that always has driven me nuts because it's like, dude, you're seven feet tall, Okay, like when you when you go to your shot, you are it is more or less the same as Lebron bouncing a dude off with his shoulder on his way to the rent. You are. You are leaning on your physical tools to get to your shot. Now. I do think that Kevin Durant has a more polished skill set than Lebron. I think that goes without say is saying we're not

gonna sit up here and lie. But at the same time like it, it is his polished skill set in conjunction with what he does physically that allows him to do uh, to do what he does. And I just wish, I wish you'd get off of that hill because it's

so frustrating to me to be like, yeah, dude, you're right. Like, you guys had two outsmart people in two thousand and sevent team, but you also were just way better and like and a big reason why you're way better is you had a seven foot tall guy who moves around like Anthony Davis, who can shoot from everywhere, and and that was a big reason why you guys were way

better than everybody. In addition to what Stephen in the original Warriors crew could do but I just it bothers me when Kevin Durant like glosses over his physical tools and how he uses them to be a great basketball player. Yeah, it was funny. He was like, yeah, we're not beating you with physicality, We're just smarter than you, which I thought it was kind of funny um that he said that,

but yeah, it was. It was cool to see him kind of get into that Warrior's run because he was like teams were complaining like, oh, we're just more talented than you, which I mean, it's kind of true. You have Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, Clay Thompson. I mean, you are kind of more talented than everybody. But I mean still like, I like the way he kind of framed it though, where he was kind of annoyed that all people took from that it was a three point shooting, right,

because that's what the league took from it. They're like, oh, these are the point shooter, and he brought up He's like, I let the league in midrange pull ups. And then you know the counter to that is like, you're Kevin Durant, you could shoot whatever shot you want. It's going to be an efficient shot. So um, he's like, yeah, but Sean Livingston took them, you know, and he was just

he was just kind of going into it. But I think he really, like you could tell he gets annoyed at the like, um, the thought that it was easy, right, Like the thought that um, it just came to them naturally, like they just won the title without working for And you could tell that really bothers him, like it would bother anybody. So, um, that was cool. The way he kind of framed it was like, yeah, we I mean,

we're probably more talented, but we're also smarter. We used their our basketball Q was higher, We made the right place right, and you could see today how the Warriors are. They can't run their same offense right did, no matter what what's going on. So it's kind of cool the

way he kind of framed it. And he was talking about how like I think he just kept going into that and just he was saying that after after he left the Warriors, I think, and uh, he went to Brooklyn and they were talking about how Kyrie plays right and how Kyrie has this beautiful game and Pyrie's game isn't analytically kind of uh, isn't analytically put up, so it's just a beautiful art that he plays a game with.

So I thought it was interesting just the way he kind of went kept going into that, and he was going into how, uh, where is that going with this? But he was going into how like I remember why I was going through this, but like how the analytics kind of don't support everything that's going on and all, oh, yeah.

The way I wanted to go is was like he's saying, like, people who shouldn't be shooting like five three's a game are are pulling up like five times a game from three, right because it's a more analytically proven shot when those guys shouldn't be shooting that. So that's where I was kind of going with there, like he was going with the basketball is not played the same way the way it was like when he was going in I think I was rattling for a bit, But no, you're good.

I mean they covered so much information in the pod that, like, I mean, like you mentioned like he talked about uh, they talked about analytics in the way that um, uh, like a guy that averages twenty and ten in one team is nowhere near as good as a guy who averages twenty and ten and other, which is all stuff

I agree with. I mean, like I always bring up my Collin bastball experience, Like I averaged sixteen and ten as a freshman, and I was a way I was a way worse basketball player then than I was the following year when I averaged like twelve and seven and I made an All Conference team, because I just I

was a better basketball player. Everything I did on the floor is more impactful than what I did when I was putting up bigger numbers, And so much has to do with whether or not the stuff is being run directly through you, or if it's being you know, or if you're in a more subsidiary role in all of

these different things. I think the biggest thing that he mentioned in the pod that uh that was interesting is he basically said that, uh, that he was using John Hollinger as an example, but he basically said that that the numbers failed to capture the natural flow of a basketball game, and that to me is the most interesting part. Like you there, there's no way to quantify any two basketball possessions as the exact same. They aren't. It may be the same play, but you don't know what's been

happening immediately before. Then, you don't know what's been happening happening immediately after that. You don't know what kind of

coverage the defenses in. You don't know whether or not you've been touching the ball a lot leading into that moment so you've got a good rhythm, or if you're coming in cold off the bench, or if there's a lot of pressure, if there's not a lot of pressure, whatever it is, everything is different, and and you know, that's why I think it's so important to not be thinking about numbers while you're playing unless it comes naturally to you, you know, Like, for instance, I'll get like

Jayson Tatum has done a really good job of adding his side step three to his game as opposed to a traditional like pump fake ononderable pull up getting to like eighteen feet, and so because he's done it so many times, it feels natural for him, you know. But there are a lot of guys who do that where they'll over pursue a three at the expense of and easier shot, and it doesn't feel natural, and it takes

them out of their flow. It takes him out of the rhythm and they'll miss, and you know that that's that's the thing we have to always factor in. There is is uh the way that each possession has to be kind of viewed within its own prism. And you know, one of the things that I think Kevin Durant kind of glosses over, and this is where it brings me back to the physical stuff that he's talking about, you know,

being smarter and being more skilled versus being a physical brute. Well, the reality is is like if you ask Kevin Durant, like, dude, if you get to your spot, what's the difference between you making and missing? Usually it's how fatigued you are. Did you get into separation? Like is the defender bumping you as you're kind of going up into your shot,

causing you to lose a little bit of balance. All of that is part of the physicality of basketball in the way that it plays out and jump shooting and in other skilled moves. You know, if you were to break down a Lakers net series, never in a million years or you're gonna get the Lakers a chance based on their art form and what they do as skilled basketball players. However, you know, the idea is is when push comes to shove and it's nine in the four

worth quarter of Game two of the Finals. The idea is is that we've wear down Kevin and James and Kyrie at the point of attack on rebounds the other end, when they have to guard all of these things, we've been wearing them down so that when Kevin Durant hits Kyle Kuzma with a wicked spin move at the top of the key, game tied at ninety five minutes left, he just doesn't quite get the same amount of lift.

He just isn't quite on balance. And it's not like when he's in the gym by himself working on the game. It's different. And that's what causes guys to miss those types of shots. And and that's where you gain the advantage back, is uh where on the other end, the Lakers are kind of more embracing that physicality and they're actually using that to their advantage by getting all the way to the rim and shots that aren't gonna miss

when you're a little bit more physical. Uh. And so I think that I think that that was interesting, but I I I do think his larger point though that like uh that John Oliver coming into the league or John Holliger excuse me, coming into the league, and it kind of started that movement. And and this is the last thing I'll say about it, Like, you know, the problem is ego, because these guys that do all the numbers, they're smart. They're smart guys like these are guys that

are really hard in school. They've worked really hard at school, they've studied. You know, a lot of these guys have like, you know, statistics degrees or you know, they're you know, computer scientists or whatever it is that they bring to

the table. These dudes are you know, there they are amongst the nerds, they are the best of the nerds, and so they have egos, and so they don't handle well the idea of someone like me who has experienced these sorts of things or Kevin who has experienced at at a much higher level, looking at them in the face and being like, no, dude, you're wrong, Like this isn't how it goes, whereas super analytical thinker who has a giant ego is gonna be like, now you're you're

lying in the face of data. And I think that's where the gap kind of rows is just that that ego that these guys have matching up with an ego that's not derived from athlete, from academics, but rather from athletics. And it's just a classic like jerks, a nerds versus jocks kind of kind of debate. Yeah, he put it pretty eloquently. He said, like, like those guys, obviously John Holliday get in the league opened it up, opened up careers for a lot of people, right, and that's a

good thing. Like we have more people getting opportunities, you know what I mean. But like he the way that he put it was like they don't they can't understand the encore game, so they can only understand it through the numbers, right, So that's the only way they can

process the game. Right, Like we say, a lot of people are watching these games on Excel sheets, right, like because you can't watch thirty teams at once, it's impossible, but they have they have to have opinions on all thirty all thirty teams, so that when that happens, Uh, I have someone at my door, but once, but when but when that happens, that you have you have these guys that can only understand it through numbers, So it makes it tough for it makes it tough for that

that to kind of blend together. But my favorite part of the pod was you brought up the you brought up the fatigue part of it, right. And so when when Katie talked about it, he said the game has changed because he was watching. He was watching the Nets play the Hawks, I think from the sidelines, and he

was seeing how, um, they went ten straight possessions. Each team shot ten times or something without stopping, and he's like, man, I know these guys are tired, which I think is really fascinating because you think the game is slower now, a lot of fouls, a lot of replays. But he was saying he was watching and like he was seeing each team go like ten straight possessions of time out and shooting, and how he's like, man, I know that they're tired. I know that there's no way they have

their legs in their shots. So I thought that was interesting that he was saying, like the game is actually a lot faster now. You have to process the game a lot quicker. Teams are shooting way quicker in the shot cloth. There's no more running the offense around and it's just whoever gets the open three pulls it up and you have to run back. So what do you think about that part? I thought that was really interesting when he said, like, the game is kind of really

different now, it's so much faster than it was before. Well, he's right, he's right, and it's something that I've talked about at length on Twitter, just this idea that the game is far more athletic and mobile than it ever has been. He connected it to injuries, which I think

is fascinating. I don't know that that are necessarily connected because I tend to think that injuries are more connected to UH managing wear and tear, and like the reality is is, you know, we should be able to as a as a league, we should be able to do a better job of monitoring wear and tear to prevent injuries.

But at the same time, like but he but at the same time, like he's right, Like there there is something to be said about the fact that you know, you know, seven bodies in the paint on any given possession like it was in the eighties isn't going to resemble athletically, you know what what what what people have been dealing with UH in this era, And I do think there's some truth to that, but I mean more or less, like I tend to think these things will

even out like uh, throughout NBA history if you just so, just if you google NBA league averages, it takes you to a basketball reference page that just kind of lays down statistical, uh, the landmarks from year to year. And if you look like paces, like pace kind of just goes up and down, and it goes up and down, and and what it usually reins it in is defense, Like defenses just get really like the pace is really

heavy right now. But then just wait until teams completely forego offensive rebounding to get back in transition, and all of a sudden, it's going to make more sense to uh to uh uh to change your approach because all of a sudden, the transition opportunities aren't there, or vice versa. Like a team might you know, uh heavily emphasized offensive rebounding and make it so that if you do run

in transition, you give up offensive rebounds. Like there are a bunch of different aspects to it, but the league always finds a way to correct itself. And I do I do think it's fascinating that teams like Utah and the Lakers and teams that have had a lot of success this year defensively have done so by taking away the three point line and making it so that, uh, you know, teams have to take shots that they're not comfortable with, whether it's in the mid range or driving

into all of their centers. And I I've always found that sort of that dynamic to be super interesting. And for the record, I think this is what's going to make the uh uh, the Lakers Nets Finals, if it happens, be so interesting because it is a super conflicting style

type of thing. Because the Lakers do run when they have Lebron and Marcusol in the game, but they run from the standpoint and they have their wings run the floor and they'll just throw giant outlet passes that they'll they'll have Anthony Davis leak out for like quick post ups and things like that. Um, but you know, in relation to the rest of the league, they don't run all that much. And then Brooklyn's up and down and up and down, so like it'll be it'll be interesting.

And then physicality versus skill and you know, supreme offensive talent versus a team that is, you know, arguably the best defensive team of this era and all of that just kind of like kind of matching into this like kind of an immovable object running into the unstoppable force kind of thing, right, and and like for the Lakers, I mean it was funny, like hearing hearing the players

perspective is always awesome. Because Austin Rivers had played on the Rockets last year, right, so he was on the team with James Harden in the playoffs in the bubble, and he did a podcast and he was saying, like, h during the end of that Rocket series, like he was getting switched on a Dwight Howard right, Like he's in and Joy Howard's not a good post player, but he's like, dude, what am I doing? Like what am I doing on Dwight Howard? Like this makes no sense.

Dwight Howard just catching just dumping in. So I thought it was funny, like we see these all these matchups and switching, and sometimes it's really just comes down to like, look, this guy is way bigger than me, Like why are we switching everything? So I think it's funny to see in like a Nets kind of Lakers matchup, like the Nets are gonna play small. I mean, they just have to.

There's they can't really match up with a D Drummond, Marcusol all that, So it's gonna be like and like you said, like kind of wearing them down through a series. I mean, like if you watch Katie in the playoffs, you watch those guys when he was obviously not on the Warrior, but you know those Oklahoma City teams, Um, they struggled like down the stretch, and I think that's

because those dudes are tired at the hand. Those midrange fadeaway jumpers aren't as clean in the fourth quarter with with uh with a little bit of time left, and I think all that kind of matters. It's why Lebron to get to the rim is probably the most important skill in basketball. You know, it's the most important thing that Lebron does. He's able to get to the basket and create from there, and I think that's where the

battle would be. You know, the Nets have enough offensive firepower where it might not really matter who's tired because they have three mega superstars who can score the ball. But I think that's an interesting point. Like obviously basketball is not played as we say on an Excel spreadsheet, so it's it's kind of funny see Katie kind of talk about it, and Uh with Draymond Green, he was another guy. I love what Draymond said. He's like, they called me a tweener, and I wanted them to forever

regret to ever use that term. And it's kind of cool because you don't go and you don't go play at fitness and like, I need a power forward, I need a center, I need a shooting guard. You don't do that. You just go and you pick five players to go play basketball with us to have a guy who's tall. But I mean, I like how Draymond kind of fit that. I was like, you know, these guys are just way too worried about shooting a percentages and stuff like that instead of just playing the game. So

it was a cool podcast listen to. I thought he made a really interesting point about how the tweener is extinct now in the sense that like there's no such thing as a tweener because positionless basketball is kind of taken over. Um. One last thing I wanted to say

before we get you out of here. Uh. This was from the little chat that they had run in this morning, Kevin Durant and UH and on the on Twitter, and so someone asked basically like, are you worried about are you worried at all about the UM integrating everybody back in together when you guys haven't played together in so long?

And how and how that might translate to the playoffs, And basically it was like we all got high basketball accues and and the bottom line is is that like like for really smart basketball players, it doesn't take long to figure things is out and and and you know, I think I thought that that was really interesting because I think it's something to keep in mind with the Lebron bringing Lebron back on board and bringing Anthony Davis back on board, having like a brain like Lebron involved

with that process just makes it a lot a lot smoother. And you know, and uh, come to think of it, like, you know, the really interesting thing that this is actually something that popped up in a podcast yesterday they listened to is Ryan Rissilo, and he basically was talking about how he would rather have an average defense in a super elite offense than an average offense in a super

elite defense, which I thoroughly disagree with. And the reason why I disagree with it is that it's not about because if you think of it from a math perspective, it's the same, right, Like, all you need to do is score more points than your opponent, So who cares if you're doing it by giving them up or by scoring them on the other end Like that, that shouldn't

make a difference, right in theory. But when you're trying to take regular season data and translate it to the playoffs, you have to look at the stuff that usually translates well and historically in the NBA, in the n b A, the thing that translates best to the playoffs is elite high end defense, which is why the team that wins the championship is almost always an elite high end defense. The reality is is like you look at a James James Harden has a history of his offensive game tailing

off in the postseason. You know, Kevin Durant outside of those years in Golden State, has a history of his efficiency tailing off in the postseason. These guys that it is much more difficult to do what you do offensively in a playoff environment. However, defensively, it's the same job. There's nothing that changes about it. The the other team might make or miss more based on your physicality and

what the refs allow and things along those lines. But you are doing the same thing defensively in the defense in the postseason that you do in the regular season, it translates better. And then the other thing too, is uh, when you look at offense, the things that translate to

the postseason offensive are things at the rim. You you never have to worry about, you know, a physical, aggressive offense at the rim becoming less effective in the postseason unless you are an absolute brute force offensive player that does nothing but go to the rim. Think of Janice guys along those lines, where then a defense can kind of scheme for it. But if you can get to the rim in addition to a well balanced offense, and if you can defend at an extremely high level, those

things will translate more. Which is why I would rather have an elite defense with an average offense than the opposite, because I can count on that elite defense remaining elite in the postseason in a way that the offense might not necessarily. Yeah, exactly, I think that's the way to look at it too. And shots can fall or not fall, you know, in the playoffs, and I think defense kind of it doesn't change, but the intensity goes up. Right,

you're more intense defensively. Those those shots that are open for like three seconds might be open for one second now, right, Like can you shoot in the playoffs? It's like why guy like Lou Williams always really struggles. He's one of the worst play off numbers um in league history because his jumpers just aren't as open when they get to the playoffs. And I think there's a playoff shooting and regular season shooting. I think that's true. I think that's

when Milwaukee struggled as well. Now they've changed up their offense. They drew Holiday is a little bit more of an isolation score. But you know, in their past playoffs, be honest, would kick out and those those threes just aren't as open for those shooters, so they instead of shooting forty percent of the shoot like you know, thirty thirty three, thirty four percent from three, and that really impacts the whole game. So I feel like defense translates better. I mean,

there's all these cliches, defense wins championships all that. Now those are, uh, the still cliches, but you know, the cliches for a reason. I think that doesn't matter. Um and again, in the playoffs, you kind of are going to lean on your stars, right, Your stars are gonna create every shot. I feel like the offensive ratings to the regular season kind of can be misleading, especially like teams that are beating up on bad teams and stuff like that can really can really hurt you. But if

your defense is consistent, I think that can stick. I think that's a hundred percent more important. Um. Then obviously you need a good offense. Oh, but I think if your defense is like the teams don't usually win a championship without being top ten and defense at least, I believe. I think those were the numbers. The nets are going to test that this year for sure. But yeah, I think I think defense definitely is more more important going

going to the playoffs. Yeah, we're on the same page, all right, man, Did you have anything more you wanted to add today? I think that's it, and I'll just say that we're planning to do locker room on Monday at uh yes, I think at seven. So make sure you download the locker Room app. I think it's only for iPhone users for right now, but yeah, make sure download that would be there on their round seven pm Pacific. I think that's when the NIXT game should end, so yeah,

and then the game starts at four thirty. I'm sure Roger and I'll be tweeting through it, and then we'll do a locker room after. But thank you guys so much for listening the podcast version. I'm literally gonna put it up right now, so give me like fifteen minutes, Roger, I always appreciate your time as usual. I hope everybody has a great weekend and we will see you guys on Monday, So you guys