Episode 36: Trade Deadline Reactions With Tommy Gunn @TGunn21

you doing? Man? Are you feeling okay? I know you're a Warrior's fan, so you're probably a little annoyed, but how you doing overall annoyed? Um? I mean, I think the Warriors are making their direction clear. Basically, we're going all in on nineteen year olds. Um, which is I mean, it's a choice that we can say that much. It's a choice. But um, it's frustrating. Um. But yeah, except

to talk about all the other stuff. Honestly, I discussed all the Warrior stuff at length on Twitter over the last couple of hours, so we're ready to talk about everything else. Yeah. So one of the recurring themes that's gonna get brought up here in the next you know, half hour hour is going to be this idea that every team in the country. UH seems to be intent on overvaluing draft picks and young players. And it sucks because, like you know, we'll just frame this through the Kyle

Lowry situation. So there's intel out there that the Lakers could have had a much better chance of getting Kyle Lowry had they put talent Horton Tucker on the table, but there was no willingness to include him in the deal. Now, the Tyler Harrow one made more sense to me because Tyler Harrow at least had a dominant playoff game, you know,

partially responsible for executing the Boston Celtics last year. He has I'm not gonna say his ceiling is necessarily higher than talent Horton Tuckers, but he certainly held a lot closer to it, and given the age of the players on the team, that makes a lot more sense. But it doesn't make any sense to me that the UH that teams are are so hesitant to commit to a timeline, and it really it really drives me nuts. And you know,

what's talent Horton Tucker's ceiling? What is he? Maybe in Eric Gordon, maybe a little bit more athletic version of Eric Gordon how does how does that? Uh, and what's he at least four or five years away from being that and Lebron's turning thirty seven this year, Like, I just don't understand that that concept. And and you're you can probably speak to this as well with some of

these Warriors young players. Yeah, it's it's interesting because what the Lakers are the Warriors are basically saying is we think these individual players th H T or wise when they're gonna be at the very least stars and maybe superstars because you already have the components to you already have the superstar player that can win you a title. Like for both the Lakers and the Warriors, who are in different positions right now. The Warriors are ninth in

the West and have an average roster. The Lakers have one of the best rosters in the league. Um, they can win a title this year. But what they're basically saying by not being willing to include these young guys in trade packages for players that are already really good, is that we think these guys can potentially become superstars, which is I mean, I think both guys like Wiseman

and t HD have the talent to do that. But as you're alluding to their so far from the ceiling, it's a pretty wild bet to make when you have superstars in there, either early thirties and Steps case, or their mid thirties in Lebrons case, where they don't have much time left to win championships. Right like that, that window is very, very limited, So not going all in doesn't make sense to me. And that's for any team

in this situation. Right then, we can take the Nets, for example, dur Answer in his early thirties hard and the same thing. They're saying, let's go all in. Let's do whatever we can to improve this team right now to win a championship or multiple championships over the next three or four years, and they have continually done that all year. Yeah, it's it's a question of what your goal is. The are like so many teams are obsessed with being interesting, and then when they're interesting and they

fall short, they're all super annoyed. At the end of the season. It's like it's like they only care about the ultimate goal when they've lost, and then before that they care about being interesting. And that's something that I struggle with, especially for bigger market teams, like if you're Golden State or you're the Lakers. You have to understand that you're gonna get probably the best midlevel exception guy most years. You're gonna get the best veteran minimum guys

most years. You're you. You, you you have all these other things working in your favor. So it's being tied to a draft pick, which is arguably the least valuable thing to a big market team, to me, is completely nonsensical. And I just you know again, like the big thing too for these contenders is that the league is so much better now than it used to be. Like Warriors fans are so caught up in this idea that hey, wait, wait,

wait until we get Clay Thompson back, we're gonna be good. Hey, I got news for you, Steph claim dray one is not good enough anymore. That's not not with not with clayoff in a c and Achilles. If you're telling me we're getting two thousand, nineteen Klay Thompson that I think there may be right there with the right moves on the margins, but that's not a garante. And I think the larger point is that injuries happen, Like as a Warriors man I've seen this over the past twenty months.

Injuries happened. There's the three best players got significant injuries four times over a twenty month period. So when you have the chance to go all in and your players are healthy, like for the Lakers, for example, even though le Bron and a d are injured right now, they're gonna be fine come playoff time, you gotta go all in. You have to write because Brooklyn is putting together an incredible team. They still have some struggles on defense, but

they're gonna be formidable in the playoffs. Denver got better. The Clippers are nothing to laugh at, even though I still don't love their team. If they are clicking on all cylinders, they can beat the Lakers and not moving for a guy like Lowry when he clearly was available over a guy like t HD, who's I think will be a good player, But will he ever even be as good as Kyle Lowry? Like at his peak? Will he be as good as Kyle Lowry? I don't know. Do you think he'll be the second best player on

a championship team? That's the question that we're asking And if he if he's not that, then I'd rather have three years of Kyle Lowry as a second or third best player on a championship team, then whatever t H T is in ten years. And what you just said is that the key point. It's it's you know, Brooklyn is good enough that they can beat you, and and that is the key fact that keeps getting that keeps getting lost in all of this. Like I'm as big of an optimist as far as the Lakers go as

you'll find out there. Like I last year, I did not think any of those teams could beat the Lakers. I didn't think any of them could. You know, I thought the Clippers were close, but I didn't think any team realistically had a chance to beat the Lakers. I was confident through and through the entire process this season there are at least there's at least one team out there that can beat you. Brooklyn can beat you, you know, like uh, with the way that Phoenix is constructed, they

can beat you. With the way that the Clippers are constructed, with Sergebaka, with Cauai getting a little better and Paul George looking better than he did last year, they can beat you there. This is a year or even though

the Lakers are theoretically better. The margin that exists between you and the other teams in the league is smaller, and to me, it's like the uh, you you cannot you don't want to go down holding chips and you know what, mark mark my words, man, Like, there's gonna be a moment where it becomes abundantly clear that th HD can't play in the playoffs this year, and he'll have he might have a moment where he looks good, but in a late round, there's gonna be a moment

where it looks like he's not ready. And it's not gonna be because it's his fault. It's gonna because he's twenty years old. And in that moment, I hope people understand that the like those little tiny details like improving the third best player on your team, even if it's just a marginal amount, like the gap between Lowry and in Shrewder is real. It's not a huge gap, but there's a gap there, and something like that could be the difference between you hoisting the trophy or going home

in the Western Conference finals. Oh and guess what, Lebron turns thirty seven next year, and it's just gonna get harder and so I I just don't understand why why I did that obsession, and I'll never get it. But I think it's just I think it's just it's it's for whatever it's worth. It's something that exists all around the league. So it's not a problem unique to the Lakers. I mean, Bob Buyers is having the same problem all the like pat Riley's having the same problem. This problem

exists all over the league. I think what it speaks to mostly is once you have success in one way, it's hard to move off of that. You like, you just hone in on this one way of doing things. That's what's That's what the Warriors are going through, and that's what I think, to a certain extent, the Lakers are going through. They did improve their roster a little bit this offseason, but they're thinking, oh, we we have the same two guys that we want the title with

last year. We're still good enough to do it this year. The league has shifted around you, Like Brooklyn didn't have Kevin Durant or James Harden last year. I mean, Katie was on the roster, but he was injured. He was never playing a game. Like the league has shifted Phoenix didn't have Chris Paul, Denver didn't have Aaron Gordon, who I don't obviously isn't in the class of any of those guys, but I think he changes the geometry for

them a little bit. I think he gets you. And Yokis is way better, like the other guys are improving, and that's going to continue to happen. There's a lot of good young players in the league right now, Like in Beads, probably gonna be better next year. Don Chech is gonna be way better next year. All these young guys are gonna keep getting better, and eventually it's gonna shift from the old guard like Katie or Lebron or

maybe Step. If the Warriors make some moves, one of those guys will win the championship in the next couple of years. I think at least one of them will, and then eventually one of them will win one and it will be the last championship that that group of three players wins. And if teams like Lakers and Warriors aren't willing to make the moves to go all in right now, they've already seen those last championships, it's over for them. It's over. They will not win another one.

Lebron needs more help than he did at thirty two. He just does. You need a guy like Kyle Lowry who can handle some of that playmaking and just like take the load off of him because he's thirty six. He never used to get high ankle sprains. He's just older. It is what it is. Yeah, No, I I I disagree in the high ankelesprain thing because I think it was a contact injury. But I but to me, the better example that was the growing the growing injury last year.

But however, your larger point I agree with. And you know, for like Rob Polinka has done a really good job since Magic has left. And I always have to be careful with this sort of thing, you know, when we're talking about trade discussions, because there's always what is reported and then there's the reality of what happens. And it's very possible that even th HT might not have gotten the deal done. So I don't want to be, you know, super matter of fact in the way trying to up

the price for Lowry. It could have been that it could have been them feeding you know, Shellbirn or Wendy whatever and telling them this is on the table, but it really wasn't and Lowry there there was until that Lowry wanted to have some sort of input on where they were going. It's very possible that that that the l a thing was never real. However, in the hypothetical where this should have happened or could have happened with th HT in the trade, to me, that's a catastrophic mistake.

And I the only I I thought about this so many times over the last couple of hours because I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something. And the only thing that if I had to be a devil's advocate for why the Lowry trade for th H

T KCP and Dennis Shroeder wouldn't have made sense. The only thing I can think of his guard depth this idea that right now the Lakers have five guards the CRUSO, th H D KCP, West, Matthews, and Dennis Shrewder, and if you give up three of them for one, then now, all of a sudden, you've got a guard corps that's only three deep. And now you're looking at playing in Alphonso McKinney, or you're trying to find a buyout guide

and maybe you can get Awayne Ellington. I don't know, and so I do see I do see some validity to that. However, to me, the lineup flexibility, provided they stayed healthy and made it into deeper rounds of the playoffs, the lineup flexibility of having a Kyle Lowry as an upgrade over Dennis Shooter, to me was was worth it.

But I just that that's the devil's advocate approach. But I still think that that it could potentially have been a big mistake, and there there will be a moment potentially if the Lakers lose this year, there will be a moment. Maybe it's against the Clippers, maybe it's against Brooklyn where it's gonna feel like there's a talent gap and and that is something that could have been remedied here and and that could be unfortunate. End of the day,

top end talent is what matters in the playoffs. I'd rather be eight deep and have have my top three be amazing than be ten deep and have like a top two and then everybody else that's just kind of black at the end of the at the end of the roster. So it I mean, I can I don't understand why the Lakers didn't do it if th h T was the sticking point, and I'll leave it at that.

We talk some other trades here, Yeah, so okay, So it appears that Miami had a backup plan lined up for Victor Oladipo, which we won't get into it for the Lakers because we've talked enough Lakers. But that was another one the Lakers should have been in on, in my opinion, because Victor Oladipo is an upgrade over the current guard staff that the Lakers have right now. However, that said Miami gets Victor Oladipo, they give up Avery Bradley and uh Kelly owner Kelly Olynnock and I think

his second round pick. Yeah, so effectively nothing a guy who Avery Bradley barely played for them at all, and you're giving up a big but they're expecting to get one in the buyout market. They already got the Eliza, so he can fill that Kelly Olynok role at a much smaller price. He costs like five bullion bucks. Yeah, and and push comes to shove, he probably won't even play. They'll probably play Little Marcus and Bam and Precious. But anyway, how do you feel surface level about Oladipo, his fit

with Miami, so on and so forth. Um, I'm not sure because I don't know exactly what Oladipo has left. I wanted the Warriors to take a chance on him just because their roster is terrible. But if he's eighty, or if he's the guy that we saw in Indie, you know, three or four years a go that took Lebron's Calves to a seven game series, I really like to pick up. You know, they I think they were struggling with lead a ball handling a little bit. Number one,

you can't count on drawing. Should be healthy anymore. He's really good when he's healthy still, but he was injured in the playoffs last year. He was injured in the finals. They that's part of the reason why it was so tough for Miami when the Lakers really locked in defensively to generate offense, because they didn't have a second ball handler besides Jimmy. Basically they're relying on Tyler Hero. Hero

has has slumped this year. He's looked bad. Um. I think this will help put him more into a role that that suits what his game is currently. I'm talking about Hero Um. If Olidibo can still be kind of that lead slash secondary ball handler who's generating a ton of paid touches and a ton of rim looks for your offense. Um, it will help out Duncan Robinson. And then if he still has that same juice, he's also a really good defensive player. So it's all depending on

how healthy he is. And I've watched I started watching, you know, some Rockets games just to kind of get a feel for what he looks like some of the pop is still there, and then sometimes it looks like he doesn't have any thing left, And I'm curious to see if that's more injury related or if that's just I'm really bored. I'm in a terrible situation, and I don't want to try that hard because I don't want

to get injured again. So my theory on the Victor Oladipo thing is that he has had some decline from the injury and it's caused some issue more so just with the way the food chain kind of works out

with these rosters that he's been on. So for instance, he in Indiana, he gets hurt and all of a sudden, Malcolm Brogden is really good and and and Sa Bonus is really good, and so it starts to creep into your head a little bit to where like when you're shooting that pull up three off the pick and roll, you're like, am I actually the guy who should be taking this shot? Because you know so and so has

been you know, Brogden has been incredible. You don't have that light anymore, you know, exactly right, That's exactly what I mean. And and then and then you go to Houston and you're on a terrible team and John wall is a black hole in a lot of cases. So I agree with you in the sense that, uh, that there are other factors that play with the way his numbers have looked. But at the end of the day, none of this really matters, uh, when you look at the fact that you're not asking him to be lead

guard anymore. And Victor Oladipo makes no sense for me as a lead guard. I mean, if you look at the theory that came out that like that the New York Knicks might have been interested in him at one point in time, I'm sitting there looking at that and I'm like, I'm like, I don't want Victor Oladipo to be the best player on my team. However, in in food chain, like he'll experience in Miami or he would have experienced in l A. It's this idea that what

you're being asked to do changes. That's why Dennis Shrewder looks great as the third best player in the Lakers. Why he looks, you know, like he isn't worth million dollars anymore now that he's playing without Lebron and na d. The bottom line is is that he's going to kind of slot in into that like second secondary initiator, but like third most important player on that Miami Heat team where uh Jimmy Butler is running most of their actions.

He can share that secondary ball handling duty with with Dragic and he's got this awesome pick and roll weapon with bam at a bio and all he doesn't handling, he does some d h O stuff and he'll play some point center like they have a lot of ball handlers now with exactly to to me, it makes a lot of sense for them. And you know, I talked about this a lot in the podcast that I did yesterday, But every team freaks out about the idea of like

over paying a star. This idea that like, oh, well, you've gotta pay Victor Oladipo this summer and he's gonna want twenty million dollars, or you're gonna have to pay Dinner Shooter this summer. He's gonna want twenty million dollars. But this is a simple fact that everything needs to become aware of. A player's market value is not what a good team is willing to pay for him. It's what a bad team is willing to pay for him.

And guess what. You either pay market value for a player, or you get extremely lucky that a player wants to ring chase, which is rare these days, or the guy's gonna leave, You're gonna You're gonna lose him. So you have the option to either overpay talent or to become a worst basketball team. That's the same predicament that every

single contending team is in. You're either gonna pay Dennis Shooter four years eighty million or four years eighty five million this year, or his Shooter is gonna walk and the Lakers are gonna be worse. It's the same problem that the Calves had when they had to resign J. R. Smith and Tristan Thompson. It's the same problem the Lakers had this year when they had to repay contagious call well Pope. Every single contending team they win a title and it's like, crap, We've gotta pay all these guys.

The Raptors just had to pay a lot for Fred van Fleet and Fred VanVleet is really good, but it's it's hard. It hampers your roster. But you have to think about it. Fred Vanvleet's value, Dennis Shooter's value, Victor Oladipo's value is not what a contending team is willing to pay. It's what a bad team is willing to pay. And that's that's the market. And you need to pay the price to be good or you penny pinch and then you get stuck in mediocrity. Yeah. No, that's a

great point. That's a really good point in terms of how the market gets set um. Yeah. And I just think, like I said, I think if Oladipo is close to the guy that we saw near his peak, I think

it's an awesome move. I he gives them a guy who can guard a Kairie type like guard those lead ball handlers and bother them and you know, Kyrie's gonna score no matter what, but at least you can bother him now and then they they do already have the front line guy is to give you know, Brooklyn, Harden and kd in theories some issues, right, So, but they're gonna be They are a much tougher out than they were an hour ago in the playoffs in my estimation.

They just they have a lot more depth in terms of ball handling, and they got better defensively to like Oladipa when he's locked in is an awesome all NBA level defender. So yeah, it's it's an absolute improvement on their roster. I don't think they're necessarily gonna win the East again, um because the conferences obviously changed and Brooklyn looks awesome, Milwaukee's looked better as of late. Um Philly

when they're healthy is really good. So I don't know if it changes the It definitely doesn't shift the power in the East, but it makes Miami a lot more

serious than they were. They also keep Tyler Hare or excuse me, Duncan Robinson, which was the guy that they had included in the uh the Kyle Lowry trade, So they're undoubtedly better, and and I kudos to the teams that are out there trying to get better because it just it drives it drives me nuts when when teams are stuck in no man's land, which you know, maybe Katie is injuredul playoffs, maybe and be gets hurt in the playoffs, like you just never know. You never know,

and that's why you gotta go all in when you can. Exactly. That's the that's the key, is like you're not you. Every single inch that you gain in this sort of environment is an inch that might put you over the top of things break a certain way, and and that's that's the key. Like Miami, you could say whatever you want about them over paying Jimmy Butler or whatever it is, it's like they were a d potentially being a little bit more banged up last year away from winning the title.

That's literally how close they were. So it's it's something to keep in mind. Um So this brings us to another example of a team pushing chips in the middle. There was a lot of talk from Denver that this idea that uh they were. The reason why they didn't pay uh Jeremy Grant was the fact that they were concerned that they were gonna have to pay, you know, Michael Porter Jr. To a long term deal. They just signed Jamal Murray. Nicola Yokich is one of the best

five players in the league. Who's gonna be a super Max guy one day. There was this idea that you have too much money tied up elsewhere, so there's no point in going after Eric Aaron Gordon because that would just give you another guy you have to pay. That was the concern coming into the trade line trade deadline, but they did it. They did it because they understand all of those things that we were just talking about. And I think we both agree that Aaron Gordon makes

them way better. But why don't you start by just telling us how you see Aaron Gordon improving them? Well, I think number one, it's something that kind of gets missed with him. He's not one of those super disruptive defenders that's gonna get a lot of blocks and steels. Just kind of weird considering his athleticism. But he's really good at point of attack, Like he can guard the big wings, he can guard you know, reasonably well. The lebron Kawai happen, Durant tight Um, that are that you're

gonna see in the biggest playoff series that you come into. Like, he can guard those guys, and he's not going to be the best at it. Um, Like he struggled against Kauai when he was when I was in Toronto a couple of years, but that was because Gordon was doing way too much playmaking. He's doing way too much ball handling in Denver, He's not gonna have to do that. They have Yokis, who's obviously who might be the best

offensive player in the league. Like he's right there. Marie Get does a ton of ball handling and he's looked a lot better the last month or show of basketball. So Gordon can just finish or concentrate what he's good at. He's been shooting spot up threes well this year. He's shooting from three, low volume, but he's still making him He's an incredible cutter. He's gonna get three, four or five dunks a game just cutting off of yokich Is,

high post actions, driple handoffs to elbow stuff. Um. And yeah, I just overall, I think it's a really good fit. I think he's like, honestly, just a better version of Jeremy Grant, like in terms of the way he'll fit there, Grants still just was a little bit clunky in some ways, even though he was good for them in the playoffs, because not a great handler, you can't really rely on

his shot, and he wasn't a great finisher either. Gordon's a really good finisher around the rim, Like, that's an element that he adds that I think people are gonna be surprised by is how good he is around the room, because he's he's pretty pretty damn good I finishing around the Rodman playing off Yokich and Mory like he's gonna get so many easy looks. It's ridiculous, for sure. I think the one thing that I think it's worth pointing out is that Jeremy Grant does appear to be very

good now. But I think I think the thing I think with what what happened with Jeremy Grant is he signed a deal to become a primary ball ball handler in Detroit and UH, and then he went to work. UH. He went to work that entire offseason, that short offseason, preparing himself for what was going to be a much

different role than what he had in Denver. And to his credit, I think he got better, but I would say that I think Aaron Gordon is better than the version of Jeremy Grant that existed in Denver in that

smaller role. Um One of the things that I thought was really interesting, particularly in the Lakers series, is Denver asked to Jeremy Grant to be a little bit more aggressive in that series, and Jeremy Grant went after Lebron a few times at the end of shot clock situations mainly and had a lot of pretty good scoring opportunities. You could see why Aaron Gordon, uh it slots right

into that same role. And we had concerned coming into the season that Denver had missed an opportunity to really capitalize on a window because they let Jeremy Grant and Tory Craig go and if if it seemed like they

got worse. And what so interesting about the Aaron Gordon addition is it kind of undoes that damage while at the same time capitalizing in the fact that everyone else is better, Like Michael Porter Jr. Better than he was last year, Nikola Vouseovitch better than he was last year, excuse me, Nikola Yokich better than he was last year. I'm gonna give you some ship. Now you uh said that Jamal Murray's Bubble performance was fake. I think he is at least starting to show in the last month

that maybe it wasn't. More like he's actually shot a little bit better and in the last month or two than than he did even in the Bubble from every single distance. And it appears to be what might be a top fifteen ish type of player in the n b A if he can be consistent like this. Uh. He also has kind of a history of starting season slow, for whatever that's worth. But the point being is Denver's better, And now you know JaVale McGee is more or less

what Mason plumbly did for you last year. Maybe a little bit worse, but who cares. It's a very low value position for them, And and overall you just took what was a vastly improved roster for the guys that stayed but that had lost to key Peace, and you just replaced that key Peace was something that might actually be better. And to me, that makes them super dangerous.

And if I'm the Clippers in particular, because of that bad matchup with their inability to guard Yokich, I'd be freaking out because that's gonna be just an extremely difficult team to beat now. And this goes back to what we were talking about the beginning, like there are just so many incredibly good teams this year, and at Denver there was a slip and now all of a sudden, there's not And now it looks like they're every bit

as good as anybody else. And by the way, what a great opportunity for Nicola Yokis to make a move on the MVP award. Absolutely, And I mean I think with all their troubles earlier in the season, they're still their fifth in the standings right now, So I mean, they had all those troubles, they started terribly and Yokich has been so amazing that he's lifted them to a

t eighteen record. Now the roster has improved, um, and I think they're still going to have some struggles on the wing defensively, like they're gonna be relying on Gore

to do a lot on that end. Um. I don't think that should get lost because they did move Gary Harrison this deal, so all their problems aren't fixed by any means, But I think they are one step closer with as young as their best players are in Yo kitchen, Murray to like truly becoming a contender within the next two to three years, which is all you're you're trying to do. With as young as those guys are, you know,

they're in their early early to mid twenties. You're not necessarily trying to win a championship right now, because guys in their early twenties basically don't win championships if they're the best players on your team. But they're moving towards that, and Gordon fits the timeline, so they Denver was smart enough to say, hey, we might have messed up the Jeremy Grant thing, let's rectify it as soon as possible, and that Aaron Gordon trade was a great way to

do it. And there there for the record, I I do think they can win the title this year, So that I would disagree with you there in the sense that, like I I understand what you're saying in terms of the goal in the timeline, but like if you were to, like coming into the season, if you were to order all the contenders, you would put the Lakers on their own tier number one, and then you would add this second tier that would have been like Philly in Brooklyn,

and you might have had the Clippers on there, you might add a handful of other teams, even Denver. But then once the season started playing, all of a sudden, that shifted. All of a sudden, Brooklyn kind of went up to the same tier as the Lakers, and then Phoenix and Utah jumped into that second tier and Denver like fell out of that second tier and appeared to

be like a third tier contender. This very firmly puts them back on that second tier of contenders, which is quite frankly, all you're looking at there is Kevin Durant being out potentially or which he's literally hasn't been able to stay on the basketball court for the last two years, and then Anthony Davis and Lebron who both have uh Anthony Anthony Davis has an achilles issue which is about as scary as it gets, and Lebron has suffered a

contact injury, which is something he hasn't suffered in his career and his actual like physical trauma on ligaments and can actually be a problem long term. So it's it's it's absolutely and especially the reverse sprain that high ankle sprain, and so that that uh, being in that second tier of contenders is where you want to be in my opinion, because if if, rather than the third, because that's where like a couple of things break your way, suddenly you're

holding the trophy. Yeah, and Sham just reported that it's at least four more weeks for Lebron. Basically, it's he just reported four to six weeks from the time of the injury. So I'm assuming basically at least four more weeks of Lebron's out and if he's five more at three to five yeah, yeah, but I would assume it's somewhere in the middle of that timeline that would just

be my guests. Maybe not. But so he's not back till mid April, and now they only have maybe a month of games left for him to kind of get back into shape. Same with a d if he even comes back during the regular season. Yeah, things are just a lot more dicey, and Denver is now in a position to where they can capitalize much like a two fifteen more situation where During goes down in the West

and then they get some injury. Look at the East two with the Caps, right now you're in a position to where you're a little bit younger in a title. Maybe your core is, but injuries broke the right way and now you can win one. I think it's worth mentioning,

like uh, with the high ankle sprain thing. It reminds me of what happened with Clay Thompson in the two thousand eighteen finals, where it's a little bit more of a pain tolerance issue than like a re injury issue, because like the type of movement that requires that sort of re injury is extremely rare in basketball. That's why the high ankle sprain is rare in basketball, Whereas like a traditional ankle sprain, there's weakness moving laterally and it

can re injure extremely easily. So I think the big, one of the big determining factors for him coming back is just gonna be pain tolerance, and that I think will in a large part come down to how the stainings shake out. Like if the bottom really falls out of this thing and it looks really bad, I could see him potentially trying to force his way back earlier, which again was another reason why I thought it made so much sense to try to get Lowry but I digree. So, uh,

let's talk about George Hill to Philly. So obviously it appears appears what happened here is uh. There was a question as to whether or not h Philly was willing to really get into this bidding war with the Lakers

and the Raptors. And my guess is that Darryl Moray did a much better job of picking up on what Massi Eugerry's thought process was during this time, and he got a better read on the situation and got out while he getting was good credit to him, because the Lakers and he kind of got dragged along and it appeared clear that they did not read Massi Eugerry very well. But I actually like George Hill to Philly, So I'll

go first on this one. The thing with George Hill, you know, my personal experience with him as someone rooting for him was when he was with the Calves, and uh, the thing was when he was there, he had he had back spasms and was in and out of the lineup. He actually missed playoff games, uh, and and was largely

a shell of himself when he was there. That said, the because he had some success in Milwaukee is just a really He does a lot of things really well, which we'll get to in a second, But the truth of the matter is health is a legitimate problem with it. He's more or less than banged up NonStop since he left Indiana. That's just kind of the m O with George Hill, which is crazy because he's such a chiseled like freak natural athlete. But what George Hill does amazingly

well is he's an incredible spot up shooter. If he's wide open, he's as good at knocking down wide up and shots as anybody in the league. And then two he is he's capable of making really basic plays as a point guard out of pick and roll uh and out of close up, close out opportunities. He's not a guy that's going to consistently dissect you and hurt you and and and do things like really high level things

that you would want from a point guard. But he can run basic actions, which makes him great for second units. It's an interesting wrinkle to run have him run actions with Joel Embiad while Ben Simmons is off the floor. Things along those lines. He's a definitive upgrade over the backcourt that was playing for Philly with guys like Tyrese Maxie. It's in Shake Milton. So it's a definitive upgrade. And it's a classic example of a team that's like, hey,

we're really good. We might win this thing, but let's get better. And I have respect for them in that regard. Yeah, absolutely, I agree with everything you said. I just I don't know how much he'll moves the needle at this point in his career. Like he's a really nice player. He has, he's had a great career, but he'll be thirty five at the time the playoffs roll around. He is an amazing spot up shooter, but his it seems like it keeps getting harder for him to get those shots off

in spot up situation, Like he's just getting older. You know, it's just harder to get looks off when you get older. Um So, I mean, I think he's a nice player. He's he obviously is better at this point than Tyrese Maxie, who I really like in Shake Melton as well. Um So, he's gonna help them just in terms of like bolstering the rotation a little bit, and you know, some injury prevention stuff. Seth Carey has been injured a ton this year, UM, so that it gives them some insurance UM in that part.

But I don't know if he plays over any of their top five guys right now in in down the stretch UM, and then give up much for him obviously, So it's a good move. I don't hate it, but I just don't. I don't think it moves the needle that much. Like, is it really helping you eat Brooklyn? Isn't really helping you be even Milwaukee? Maybe? Is it? Is it really helping you beat Um? The new Heat team? It's all a depots, super healthy and ninety percent of what he once was. And I don't think it is.

It's still it's still gonna require and B to be better than he's ever been. And it's going to require um an incredible playoffs from Simmons who's been very, very up and down in the playoffs at this point of his career. Who did they give up for George Hild Do you remember off the top of your heads? No, I'll pull it up, UM, But yeah, I just I like I said, he's a fine player. I I really do like him. I would have liked for the Warriors to get up because it would be a rotational upgrade.

But I don't. I just don't think he's swinging a championship for anybody, you know, Like, even if if the Lakers were got him, I don't think it swings anything in their favor or not in their favor. He's just not on that level anymore. I I agree with you. I think they gave up Tony Bradley, Terrice Terrence Ferguson in two first round picks, so two guys they basically weren't playing. Uh So it isn't it is an upgrade. It's a marginal upgrade on the on the fringe, didn't

cost him anything. To me, that was a kind of a no brainer move for them. It was a move that wouldn't have made sense for a team like the Lakers because of the salaries that they've had to have included to match and and they the thing is is like it's all about a need. Like the reason why I like Skyle Lowry for the Lakers is, uh, you know, what Dennis Shooter does to the Lakers is so important.

We saw that when a d was out and then Dennis Shrewter went down, and then the Lakers couldn't win because they had nobody that can dribble with their head up and uh. And the truth is is that adding a guy like George Hill is only a marginal to below average playmaker, isn't as big of a deal in that specific role to the Lakers that he would be

for a different team. And you know, they're mainly looking for a guy that can be almost like a defensive lead guard that can do some little ball handling, but for the most part as an off ball player like he was in Milwaukee. And and uh and and so I think it makes a lot more more sense for Philly. And they still they still strike me as the only team out East that is capable of beating Brooklyn because of how much pressure they can put on the rim. I agree, I agree, And I think Brooklyn is probably

gonna bolster their front court on the buyout market. I would assume they're going to go after either Drummond or all Dridge, even though it sounds like all Dred going to Miami. Um. But yeah, I mean, I still have Silly winning the East tentatively. But I don't think the Hill move shifts anything. Is my point, Like, if people thought that, you know, they were going to be Brookelyn. I don't think people think that they're gonna beat Brooklyn now because they got George Hill. It's just it's not

a needle moving thing. It just it helps him, but it's not this incredible move. So Adrian or Znowski just treated and tweeted. In making trade offers for Kyle Lowry, teams had to take into consideration whether he would turn out to be a rental for the season or if they would be able to meet his contract expectations to stay in free agency. That impacted how far some teams

were willing to go on him. I suppose we can try to parlay that and to cover for the Lakers not putting in th h D because there might have been some intel that he wanted to go to Miami. Everything was saying that he was gonna end up in Miami as a free agent, and then he Sham's report it earlier today that he wanted to be in Miami. Uh if if he had the choice between the toy

between the trade offers, so that kind of at some clarification. Uh. But just like with the Kahila Leonard situation, when the Raptors trade form, I don't think you can necessarily weigh a player's future for what the moment might bring. And I don't think there's a single Raptors fan in America or Canada who would who would who would turn down that business arrangement that they had with Kauai. Yeah, definitely not.

Um Alright, so let's talk. We're gonna talk one last trade and then we're gonna talk about one last non trade and then we'll get you guys out of here. Um So, nick voussovitch to Chicago. What were your initial impressions? I think, I mean for Wendell Carter Jr. I think, and it was Otto porter Wendell Carter Jr. In two first round picks, So really not that much going off the door for a guy who's been incredible this year

and four on like would be eight two shooting. He's one of the most official efficient offensive players in the league. And now you're pairing that with Zach Lavine right, who has also been one of the most efficient scorers in the league, so offensively, they are going to be a nightmare.

I wish, just from a bull standpoint, I wish they could have like maybe worked a trade for a Lonzo because now you have some some really really fun lineups that probably aren't contenders in the East, but you're building something around some guys who were young. Booch is a little bit older than Levine obviously, I want to say he's twenty nine, so he's on a little bit later of a timeline. But he also seems like a guy whose skill set is gonna age very very well because

he's not dependent on any type of quickness. Really, he's he's strength and he's skilled. Um, he's an awesome player. He obviously makes them much better. The Bulls go from maybe a team that could fall out of the playoff race to definitely being a playoff team in the East. And I think it's just the Bulls are signaling, hey, we number one, we really like Zach Lavine UM and number two, if we can do things to improve this team,

we're gonna do him. And that hasn't been um a trade of the regimes in the past, Like guar Packs was one of the worst front office in the league. Um they brought in I can't pronounce the guy's name our tourists, I don't. I cannot pronounce the last name. The guy who was Denver's assistant GM is now their gm um, and he's done some really nice things, like and I think they're probably they're probably gonna pay you know,

whatever Levin's extension is. I'm coming up soon. And yeah, I just I think they're signaling that we're trying to build something here. UM in Chicago can be a destination, like it's it's one of the bigger markets in the league. So if they get good, UM, I think it will become a free agent destination too. Yeah. I think like the cornerstone for this entire piece is how good Zach Levine has been. Um. To me, he's like this era, this generations Bradley Beal And Uh, that's gonna sound crazy

because there are only a few years apart. But what I mean by that is like the guy who's been on a bad team who like suddenly is like showing these scoring flashes that you see from the very best players in the league. And it's a it's an actual translatable thing, Bradley Beale. It's a little bit more skill based, it's a little bit more just incredible Paul uh and was Zach Levine. It's more of this like freak athleticism mixed with incredible shooting touch. But there's a you can you.

I mean, zach Levine has some bona fide weaknesses. He's legitimately a bad defensive player. However, as an offensive player, he's every bit as good as a lot of the best players in the league. And and it's crazy because it's uh. He was probably one of the more uh like like one of the more like despised players by the maligned is probably the better word, like disliked players around the league in re especially by the analytics community.

And oh yeah, a lot of those guys have like done a one eighty on it because he's scoring so officially he's shooting from the field and from three, scoring twenty eight points game. That's insane. That's like rarefied air. Nobody does that. So look at now, now what you're working with is uh, let's call him a fifteen to twenty top twenty player in the NBA and zach Lavine and now you're adding a twenty to twenty five type of player. And in Nikolavusevich, who who who has been

playing for really bad teams for a long time. So there's something to be said about putting him next to a really, really talented player. Um I'm with you. I don't think they're any sort of real legitimate threat. Uh, certainly not yet. However, there's something to build on there now. All you need is for some of these young guys like Kobe White and Lorie Marketing to pan out, and if they do, you could be in a in a really,

really good spot. But I I I'm they've they've they've become an infinitely more interesting UH League past team to watch. That's for sure, way more interesting, and like I said, in a big market like that. They're They're obviously not as big as you know, the Lakers or the Knicks or even the Worries in terms of market, but they

are one of the bigger markets in the league. You do become a bigger free agent destination when when that time comes right, like, more guys will consider playing with them, because Hey, it's at the very least, we're gonna be on a fun ross. We're gonna be competitive, we're gonna win some games, and if things break right, we can make some noise in the play us. Yeah, and it's it's at least again a team that's trying on a team that's uh. I think again, I think this team

was teetering on on a rebuild. Uh and zach zach Levine's ridiculous improvement. Clearly he took advantage of the pandemic. Zach Levine's ridiculous improvement completely tilted them back on the other end of that timeline. And I think, I think that's cool to see, and it's exciting for Chicago fans. And again, now you're in that zone where you've got your two guys, you just need to make some a couple of key successful moves on the periphery and then

you can be in good shape. I'm a little bit surprised they didn't move market in because him and Bukovitch are pretty redundant. Like I thought they would have moved him for at least some type of defensive pieces or at least contracts that aren't going to expire, um, you know, just to fill the salaries so they can make future

moves um. But yeah, I mean there's something to build on there, And I think that's that's a great takeaway from the trade DeLine, especially when, like you're saying, coming to this season almost looked like they should be rebuilding for sure. And and for here's what I'll say about marketing, And I've watched him for a really long time because he came through the University of Arizona, and as a result, I've watched a lot of him when he was in Chicago.

The dude has been hurt all the time, which is good and bad. It's bad because it means he's shown a propensity to be susceptible to injuries. But it's also good in the sense that there's a little bit of unknown surrounding it. We don't really know necessarily how good he is, and and you know, there's an impression around the league that he's not very valuable, and that may have been the main reason why they didn't trade him.

And so if you're Chicago, you just look at it like, you know, you know, maybe this dude really does suck, in which case, you know, we know that in house, and we can trade him for even if it's just something small this summer or maybe just in the long In the long run, he finally gets healthy and he pans into something and then you can move him at that point. But I mean, with with how crappy his first few years in the league have gone, there was no scenario where they were just going to get a

bunch of a great value for him. No, definitely not. And he I mean to be clear, he does have some skill. It's just and like you said, it's just been very up and down. A lot of injuries and just a lot of roster change, a lot of just turnover and turmoil in Chicago. Alright, guys, the last thing

we're gonna talk about today is Alonzo ball not getting traded. Um. And this one's interesting in the sense because it's it kind of falls into the same conversation that we keep having today surrounding what people are willing to pay for a player that's a fringe star to a mid level player, and and and part of the problem here is just kind of like the lack of a middle class in

the NBA's payment structure. It seems like every dude is It's like it seems like you have like half the league playing on minimum deals, and then you've got like a quarter of the league playing on like mid level exceptions, and then another half of the league's I'll make it, or another quarter at the remaining quarter of the league,

I'll making twenty million plus. And so that's what sucks because then like a guy, like a Lonzo comes up, who you know, is a legitimately good basketball player, Like the kid can defend, and now he's made himself into a really good shooter, and he is a really good maybe an extension, an exaggeration, but he's a above average shooter as of late. And he has legitimate skill offensively as like kind of an off ball guard who can push the ball in transition, make the right play, run, run,

pick and roll, all that good stuff. So he has he's a too, but he he has like secondary playmaking chops, especially in transition exactly. And so the interesting thing there is is you know, what number is that worth? But again you have to look at it from the standpoint of like a player's worth is what a bad team is willing to pay them. And I guarantee you some bad teams gonna play pylons of fifteen million a year or something like that. You know, So, uh, I hope

you're muted, can you hear me? Yeah? Now again, Okay, I think it'll be closer to yeah, and maybe maybe

it's twenty. But the point is is, like, if you're New Orleans, you're not getting some big time free agent you got you kind of have to approach this with the opposite method as some of these UH coastal powerhouses and you and and to me, it's like you you can let a Lonzo walk uh and maybe some of your draft picks pay a pan out and you know, maybe it's especially when you consider the timeline, Like my guess is that with Zion and b I, you're not

going to be contending for three or four more years anyway, So why not toss a Lonzo at three or four more year deal and then if he doesn't fit into the timeline when b I and Zion are in their primes, then you can kind of change your mind at that point. Yeah, And I think he'll always have a trade value even if he's at twenty million a year. I think he does enough things well and he's gonna keep getting better. It's not like the guy's gonna become a worst basketball

player unless he just has a weird development track. He's gonna keep getting better even at twenty million a year. I think he's a pretty valuable player, Like I really do, Especially as the I would assume the cap starts to continue to go up a little bit, it might get kind of funky because of what Covid has done to

the league, um, just in terms of revenue. But I think at twenty million dollars a year, as long as there's not some crazy overpay where he's at like twenty five or thirty, he's gonna be a good contractor and maybe not great, but it will be a solid contract for what he can do, especially because it can defend. Like he's three in D, but he also has playmaking, and those guys are super valuable because that's what makes

them rare. There's a ton of three and D guys in the league, but there aren't a lot of guys who can also like create against the clothes out or bring it in transition and really be a good passer and find teammates and create opportunities for teammates. He can do all that stuff. So at twenty million a year, I think he's a great value. And I think even if I think New Orleans would be stupid not to

match basically any offer a twenty million or under, yep. Agree, and and quite frankly, he's a He's a perfect fit with brandon ingraman Zion. It just in terms of what you'd be willing to uh, what you're asking him to do and what a skill set is. He's not ever going to be asked to do something that that that doesn't fit his skill set. And to me that that makes him a natural fit and a guy that makes a ton of sense. And he's one of those guys. He's one of those guys for like any of the

top ten teams in the league. Where isn't he a perfect fit? You know, like, what what top ten team in the league would you put him on? You're like, oh, that doesn't really work. Like I'm not saying he brings a title, but he makes your team better with all the things that he does. He does things that are really really valuable, and that type of stuff isn't going anywhere. The defense, in the passing that will never go anywhere.

Maybe the shot is a little bit inconsistent, but it's been at thirty from three for like the last two seasons basically, so it's probably not going to be much worse than that for the rest of his career. And one last thing on on the Pelicans, Like I there's been some talk about whether or not, uh, you know, it makes sense to keep Zion and brandon Ingram together. I am I'm a huge believer in those two together. Uh. To me, it's that like, this is two completely different players.

So I don't want to be uh you know, uh make a complete equivalency, but it'd be like it's kind of like a Lebron type archetype and a Zion type or excuse me, into a Kope type archetype. You have this brandon Ingram who's really really really good in the margins as like a as like a fine tuned score, and then you've got the bowl in the China shop. Uh. And because there are times when the bull in the China Shop doesn't work, and there are times when this

elite fine tune score doesn't work. And so I do think there is a universe where it works. I just think that David Griffin has to do a better job of of of putting guys around them. The Steven Adams trade was one of the most nonsensical trades that I've seen in recent years. And then they extended the guy for way too much money. The trade was mine. It was the extension. Adding the extension on top, like if you want to trade him to bring him in to

be in minutes eater. So science not always playing the five and then you extend him at six seven eight million a year. Fine, that makes sense, but they gave him what seventeen or eighteen million a year? It was like two years, like seventeen and a half million a year. That's where it made no sense. And then you gotta get rid of Bledsoe too. Like they just they need shooting around those two. You that's the name of the game. Now,

you need to put you in around your superstars. If they can do that, then yeah, that's gonna be a pretty damn good duo moving forward. Because they're both already really good. They just got to improve in the margins of their game, Like they both have to become better defenders. They have to become more consistent. Well Zigon is already pretty freaking consistent. But um yeah, like they're in a good spot as long as they don't mess things up

too much. Yeah, David Griffin is gonna figure his crap out. They're they're pretty much a surefire bet in my opinion, to be a top both of them to be top fifteen players within the next two years. Maybe Brandon Ingram has add some real defensive slippage since he went to since he went to New Orleans, but I have seen him under Luke Walton be an extremely good defensive player, like a flat out dominant defensive player. That kid has it in there. I think he shelved that to find

tune his offensive game. And for the record, he has fine tuned his offensive game. The kid is unbelievable as an offensive player. So there's this clear cut archetype of you know, Paul George type of player that he's gonna be, uh in the slightly different in the sense that Brandon Ingram is more midrange oriented and and Paul George is

more of like a high volume three point shooter. But I just mean that in terms of like a big wing who is a is an elite defensive player and is a twenty six seven point a game guy over affective field goal percentage. That's that's the kind of guy that he is, and that's a you know, if that's

a bona fide piece. And then Zion Williamson is on the fast track to being like this generation is Blake Griffin, a guy that in the seasons where he's health he could very easily be a fourth fifth best player in the league. So there you have the talent, it's just about figuring out the pieces around it. They did be an amazing team for a Miles Turner type of player,

uh to play in the front. I don't know why if that, if they can do anything to make that happen, any to do it immediately like that's it's such a nice fit around their core. Even though his three point shooting is almost more theoretical at this point, but he does have just some natural kind of like spacing gravity because it does team teams think it looks good. Yeah, a lot of the times. That's what matters, because whether he's shooting thirty two or thirty five maybe matters a

little bit. He's gonna need to make some big ones eventually, but it more matters our teams paying attention to him, and teams absolutely pay attention to him on the perimeter. And then to go on top of that, he's a defensive Player of the Year level player, Like he's that good on the defense defensive end, So if as long as they're not absolutely giving away everything, they should make

that move happen. Well, it's the Rondo effect. It's this idea that like you know, Rondo shooting thirty seven percent from three this year. It's like, yeah, but they're still not guarding him and he's not aggressive enough with the shot to where it can make these defenses pay that that that is the the the key difference. It's it's the like you said, theoretical shooting versus actual shooting. There's

a there's a huge difference between the two. And and theoretical shooting is enough to generate spacing and and and it's like the Marcusol effect, Like Marcusol hasn't shot the ball that amazingly well since he left Toronto. He's had a little bit of a good stretch before he went out. But the truth of the matter is like team's guard Marcusol, and it dramatically impacts the Laker spacing and makes things seem more open. Well, it's different for centers, right, because

centers typically they're playing defensively in the paint. So it's it's the inverse of the guard. Uards can kind of stag off and not really close out on guards were bad shooters. Centers, they don't really know how to guard a guy who's constantly standing on the perimeter. It just throws them off. And now if they're just a step or two closer. It's giving your zions and your brandon ingram just more space to work and get to the

rim or get to their mid range. M No, exactly, all right, man, did you have anything else you wanted to add? No, that's about it. Um. Yeah, interesting trade deadline. I I didn't like I said, I don't know if there's any like true true title shifting moves Denver. I thought Denver did a great job, like I said, like, Eric Gordon's a great pickup. And then Victor I think is a great pickup for the Heat. As long as

he's you know, relatively healthy. He's not going to be what he was his p He's not that guy, but he's if he's at it's a great pickup. Um. But you know, Denver now has a chance to win a title if teams keep getting injured in the playoffs, and injuries have been an issue this season because it was a shortened off season. Yeah, Aaron Gordon to Denver to

me is easily the most impactful trade. Um, the one that could have potentially swung the result here is you know the eye I am like this close to picking Brooklyn to win the title. And uh, because they looks so good, and uh, I just can't keep lying in the face of incontrovertible evidence. They're better defensive. They're a better defensive team, and we thought they were going to be Uh. Steve Kerr finally got uh, Steve Nash finally

got them to start competing on that end. And a lot of that credit goes to Kyrie and James Harden by the way, Uh, they're playing harder on defense than they then you would have expected. Uh. And then they just have That's the route we laid out. We said, if they compete defensively, they can absolutely win the title. And they are. And so I'm not quite there yet,

but I'm very very close. Uh. And so that Kyle Lowry to the Lakers theoretical deal would have been one that I think would have swung me back to being more convincingly on the Laker bandwagon. But yeah, super interesting. And then hopefully by this time next week we'll have a couple of buyout deals that we can talk about that might transform things a little bit. But everybody, thank you so much for tuning in. I appreciate you, guys. I'm gonna work on the download version of this for

the podcast in the next ten fifteen minutes. But as always, thank you guys for your support. I will be going live with RAJ tomorrow morning at eight o'clock Pacific Standard time. Tommy, I hope you have a good rest for your weekend. Man. Thanks man YouTube later see ye