Episode 26: Evaluating The Contenders With Tommy Gunn @TGunn21

us something to talk about. Man. Yeah, And you know, it's funny because I feel like one of the reasons why I'm excited for our topic today is I feel like, for the first time this season, I feel like I have a decent grasp on all of the of the teams.

I've been super lucky because my wife, you know, I've talked with you before about how like I try very carefully to balance like you know, diving too hard into my hobbies and then also kind of make I'm sure that I spend time with my wife and and she right now is going to school in addition to work. And it's ironically been kind of a blessing for me because I've just been diving into basketball. Uh and watching

a lot more games than I usually do. You know, I've always been able to watch like every Laker game and a handful of Marquee games, But now I can like really dive into a lot of the teams, and it's been nice because I've been able to get like

a much better feel for a lot of the teams. Today, we are going to discuss, uh, basically, as a result of the Anthony Davis injury and the fact that he's going to be out for probably a month and then who knows what it might look like for him the rest of the season, We're going to talk about how that has kind of cracked the door open for a lot of different teams to potentially win a championship this year. I'm gonna let you guys know what I think are

the list of contenders. Tommy's gonna let us know if he disagrees, and then we're gonna go one by one and kind of just talk about what it would look like for that team to get the job done and to to hoist the trophy at the end of the day. But before we get to that point, I want to

talk about a couple of current events stuff. Um, The first thing I wanted to touch on, was this Draymond Green quote that he had in this post game the other night, uh, involving the Andre German situation, in the Black Griffin situation, and some of the you know, the hypocrisies that he pushed, UH pointed out about, like the way that uh, you know, activity in business, Uh, it takes place in the league. And so I want to start there. I want to let you go first time

to give you your idea. But I do think it's I do think it's important right off the top to talk about it's just very complicated. It's always a lot more complicated than people are willing to to originally kind of admit. So I want to kind of dive into that. So, for starters, what was your first impression when you heard that quote? Like you're noting it is complicated. I don't think there's any one correct answer here in terms of

how to analyze the situation. But I think what we're seeing here, and we see this increasingly with with more players basically having access to fans and to media just through their own ability being able to use things like Uninterrupted or just things like Twitter or Instagram where they can just contact bans directly. It's more, you know, kind

of consumer to consumer. Everybody wants credit and nobody really wants to take responsibility for their own actions, right Like he Drman pointed to the Hardened situation, and every every bit of criticism that Hardened got was deserved. Houston bent over backwards for that guy for four or five years, and then he got all of his money, and then he turned around and wanted to be traded. And at the end of the end of the day he wont like. He got what he wanted and he got all of

his money. So if he had to take a bit of bad public publicity, who cares, Like, at the end of the day, he still wins because he might win a championship. Now, Broolyn looks amazing, Um. But I think

the important distinction is to make between superstars. Like superstars, I think to have a ton of power in the week because they can single handedly determined championships, right And I think if you are that good and you're that talented at what you do, you should be able to determine kind of where you go and where you play. But I I don't think the Andre Drummond types do

have the same type of power. So I do understand what Draymond is saying, but I also think a lot of his ire is directed maybe at the wrong people. So I'm interested to hear what you think, because I think he's he's trying to direct ir at the league instead of looking why a guy like Andre Drummond would be perceived as a cancer. I don't think it's the league's fault. I think there's something else that play here,

But I'll let you go. Yeah, So the same as Fontiero talks about this all time and about how like the Players Association cares too much about the top of the league and the and the middle class kind of

gets snubbed out of that. And you know, there's been some improvements recently with them attempting to help the bottom of the league, you know, through you know, raising the veteran minimum to you know, raising G League salaries, to creating that G League Select Team or what I can't remember what it's called, but the team that they have that's got all the guys fresh out of college, ge leaue Ignite, that's right. So, like there's been some improvement, but there's a lot of truth to the fact that

like a lot of the power in the league. You know, this player empowerment era is really just about a handful of guys. It's very concentrated. It's a very concentrated bit of power. And and I'm kind of okay with that, Like I think, like you know, I'm I'm a big believer in, like you know, understanding the harsh reality that the guys in the middle of the league don't really have an opportunity to get this wealthy if it wasn't for the fact that the very, very best players in

the league drive such great viewership. So that's why we talk about how, uh, you know, Lebron or Staff might be worth a hundred million dollars a year if you really get down to brass tacks, like I I do understand that. I think the interesting thing about the Draymond Green quote is agree with you. I thought it was kind of directed in the wrong in the at the

wrong people. Because if you're worried about the impression that that a certain move gives to a player or to an organization, you have to look at the media and you know, and and quite frankly, I'm a little bit of a defeatist when it comes to the media. I just think it's I think we're in like the whatever, you know, like a Golden age, were like the opposite of a Golden age with media because the there's too many cooks in the kitchen. There's too many cooks in

the kitchen. There's almost no accountability. Like even the people that had tried to hold themselves accountable are in the political world, they're like painted is like fake news and stuff like that. Like it's been one of the most frustrating eras to to try to, you know, lean on any sort of journalism pretty much in the history of mankind, you know, And and we live in a free country. I mean, it's it's it's way worse obviously in other

countries where you know, the government controls the media. But I mean it's it's just not it's not perfect. And you know what's frustrating is like you know, if you're uh if if if James Harden does something, you know what ends up happening is there's a large cool of media and all of them kind of form their opinions about it. And you had people come out caping for James Harden, and you had people coming out that we're ripping him ripping him too, shreds and and but the

same thing happens to the teams. And that's the funny part I think. I think like the Draymond Green speech kind of like took the focus off of the much bigger problem, which is a collective bargaining issue between the league and its players, between the owners and the players, because the truth of the matter is, for decades and decades and decades, the owners took advantage of the players. That's true. There's if you read any that book about

basketball history, it was pretty bad. And and and credit to the player, especially like the early players like Bill Russell who and Will Chamberlain who were willing to put their foot down on certain issues with the owners and leverage some more rights for the players. But if you look at this current situation, in recent years, the players have regained some of that power, but now it's almost like an even playing field where they're kind of both

screwing over each other. Because for every situation like a Andre Drummond, which may be ugly, or that Harrison Barnes situation in Sacramento, there's also a situation like Anthony Davison New Orleans or James Harden in Houston, where it's just as ugly the other way around. So, like, the big thing that I thought when I saw that quote was like, We're headed to a nasty collective bargaining agreement the next time that they get into a negotiation. Because if I'm

the owners, I'm like, I'm sick of these guys. And if I'm the players, I'm like, I'm sick of these guys. And I don't know where. I don't know where it settles from there. I mean, it could get ugly. I don't think a strike is out of the question. I really don't, especially considering that the league is losing money relative to where they thought they would be because of COVID. You know, there's there's still no fans in most of the arenas, and the ones that do have fans there

at like capacity. So I do not think strike is out of the question at all. Like it it can get very very ugly. But what I'd say, just in regards to this situation is it just felt like weird timing. It felt like Draymond had this thought in his mind for a while and he was just waiting for a moment to go off about it, and he picked a weird moment because who was saying anything bad about Andre Drummond.

Who was saying anything bad about him? The Calves are sitting him out to recoup value for him and make sure he doesn't get injured so they can actually trade him and both sides can get probably the best of both situations. Drummond doesn't want to be there anymore because they're losing games, and the Calves don't want him there because he's not playing hard. Like nobody was saying terrible

things about Andre Drummond in the first place. And if if people are saying bad things about him, it's going to be media members, like you're noting, It's gonna be the people in the media, and they're doing so maybe at the behest of an organization, right, which is something that you have to look at. Maybe the organization is

backchandling bad messages about a player. But Draymond sitting there yelling at you know, about all that the league is and trading the players, right, It's and media members are sitting there like nodding their head. Wow, Draymond so brave.

He's right. It's like, dude, media members, you guys are the ones that talk about about the players in the situation, in these situations, and I realized the irony of this because we're sitting here doing a podcast essentially acting like media members and like yelling into the void about this stuff. But like, yeah, it just doesn't make sense. His comments, well, I understood kind of the broad overarching theme of everything he was trying to say. It just it didn't hit

quite as well as it could. Because Draymond is one of the smartest dudes in the league. Like, by all accounts, he's an incredibly smart guy. And I'm one of Draymond's biggest fans, so I'm kind of apprehensive to criticize him in any manner. But it just felt like weird timing and weird messaging. I got the point, but he didn't connect it as well as I thought he could have. Yeah, no, I agree, and like, and that's the thing, like, like

Draymond has, uh, he has a motive. He's he's got a bias in this case, and that that that's always going to be the case, like when you're when you're asking a player to talk about players rights. I think he made good points. He pointed out some hypocrisies and media coverage, but then he like seemingly like passive aggressively put it on the owners and again, like I said, I'm a media defeatist, Like, good luck changing that situation.

If your hope is a utopia where the media treats every situation a hundred per sent fair from both sides, that is never going to happen. And I would even go a step further to say it's going to continue to get worse, especially as more people get voices and and at the flip side of that is like, you know, uh, from the standpoint of uh, like acknowledging the realities of the way that the media treats these situations, you have to understand that, Like you're all you can do is

try to control the narrative yourself. And so it's it's it's the onus is on you to try to make sure you're ultra transparent in your press conferences. Like Andre Drummond needs to come out and say this is what happened. I told him I wanted to play. I wanted a trade, but I also wanted to play. They said they wanted to bench me. I think that's bullshit. They should have to put me out there on the floor when I asked, like,

that's one thing, you know. James Harden said the same thing, Like what ends up happening is they leak some stuff and it's very vague, and then the media can run with it with whatever interpretation they want as opposed to like really really going out of your way to tell the story. But I mean, again, you're it's a losing battle, and it's the onus is on us as people as fans to try to like seek out the media that is doing the job right, Like that that's the reality

of the media problem being fixed. It's not you can't fix the media. You can just fix the way you consume it and that and that responsibility is on you. Gotta amplify the right voices. And then trying to compare any two situations I think is just misguided because all these things are case by case. Right, We're dealing with human beings, beings who are actively like changing emotions and

thoughts and and what they want to do. You can't compare any two cases, like as many parallels we may want to draw, Like even the Anthony Davis and James Harden situations are like very very different, right, even though there's a lot of there's a lot of similarities kind of just from a thirty ft view, they're not the same situation when you get down to it. So I think trying to compare any of these situations, you're just it's always gonna feel kind of hollow and just like

like you're saying, Draymon is bias. He's always gonna side with the players, and then when he gets on the other side, he's probably always gonna side with management. We've seen this with Michael Jordan. Jordan was like a huge kind of players rights guy when he's playing, and now he's like all about doing everything that's best for the owners. End of the day, people are always going to fight

for their their own personal gain. They're always fighting for their own personal game, and that's what That's how we as fans have to approach these situations. I think we just have to understand that from the outset and then

we can have more honest conversations about this stuff. And then there was the classic thing that I always complained to you about, where like the someone takes an obvious stance on on Twitter and then everyone jumps behind them and gives them a raw rab hat on the back and round of applause, and it's like and and then like the guy who stands up and he's like, actually, we'll complicate into that, and that guy gets shredded, like

it's it's it's the textbook, it's the textbook case. And which is actually a good segue to this next situation because I think, you know, uh, we're gonna talk about this report that came out today with Adrian war Zanowski having to do with the player vaccinations, and you know, I think it's extremely important like coming into this and this is something that you and I have talked about another podcast that like there is a long, dark history as it comes to the treatment of African Americans in

the medical medical community. That's important. But but I also think, like, you know, sometimes we have a tendency to draw false equivalen seas in those cases, like I remember there was a big thing that came out during the UH during the Disney bubble, or they're like they're like, oh, I don't like the optics of having you know, police officers, off duty cops that are guarding the entrances to the bubble, and you're like, well, like actually, like they're not there

to guard the players they're there to guard the people that are maybe trying to break the bubble to get in the bubble. Okay, Like that's like, I get the point you're trying to make, but I feel like this

isn't the hill to die on. And I think that's kind of the the opinion that I have on this, Like I understand the idea of of not wanting to do a p s A for all of the reasons that we discussed in the past, but I do think it's okay to tell the players or to ask to play years to be realistic about taking the vaccine, just individually for themselves, like when in the report it says that that the NBA sending out like an education doctor to go around to all these teams and sit down

with him. And I do think, like, again, at the p s A thing totally different debate that can get ugly and optics are great, but I do think it's okay for the players to pressure the or for the owners to pressure the players into taking the vaccine because

it's literally like in their best interests. It's in their best interests no matter how you look at it, especially when you factor in all of the bad things that We've seen even young athletes experience post COVID or during COVID when they get the real illness, you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean Jayson Tatum is talking about it right now. How he's still he's still getting fatigued more quickly than he ever really has in his life.

And he's twenty three years old, twenty two years old, something like that, and you know, probably as fit as basically anybody in the world that is twenty three years old, and he got a bad case of COVID and he's still struggling to to breathe times from it, right, And I think you said you went through something similar when you got it right, and you're in your late twenties.

I'm still experiencing some lingering fatigue. But I can't tell if it's literally the same lingering fatigue that every human has been experiencing around two pm every day their entire life, or if it's post COVID stuff. But I can tell you that it was real, like it was a real It kicked my but worse than any illness have ever had.

And and and I I'm you know, there are a lot of young people who've had it worse We've even heard about the kid from Florida who had the heart inflammation that caused his heart to I think I can't remember the exact details, but the yeah, Kyante Johnson Johnson if family, the family did come out and say recently that that wasn't COVID related. I don't know, probably did. I didn't see that. That happened like maybe a week ago. I remember seeing then the news break, and then I

read a little bit of the article. Um, they did say it wasn't COVID related. I don't I mean, maybe they made the wrong determination. I don't want to speculates my point. That's classic. That's classic, like the way scarier version of the story everybody sees, but then like the the like the real version of the story comes out that's way less scary and like no one sees it.

That's exactly exactly. UM. As far as the All Star Game goes and players getting vaccinated, it's just a really tough topic, man, for all the things that you said at the outset, just kind of the dark history with UM Black Americans in the medical medical community here, UM especially, it really becomes how concerned do we want to be about the optic because at the end of the day, you're probably getting white owners telling black players to take

a vaccine, and that still doesn't look great. Like I I still that still makes me like a little bit queasy, And you know that. I agree. I think though, Like again, it's like I think there's there's a difference between empathy and like uh and like kind of like letting your emotions dictate your dictate your decisions, because like it's IM sure, this is not we're asking the black players to take the vaccines first. This is not we're asking the black

players toticipating in a clinical trial. This is tens of thousands of people have been tested by this with this vaccine and clinical trial that it has been approved by the CDC, it's been approved by the federal government, it's been approved by the FDA. It's been already given to almost every emergency worker in the United States of America right now in terms of people who have for seen

these pine. I think it's okay to be like, we have a checkered history with this stuff, and these are the facts about this individual case, and so like, where where I do agree with the people that are pushing back is the the the p s A. It's like that's weird, like like, hey, can you guys go and do this on television to try and talk to your communities so that they're not scared like that I think

can get ugly really fast. Uh, And I agree with but the simple act of saying, hey, guys, it is in the best interests of our league for you guys to be vaccinated so that you don't have some awful health issue with the actual virus itself, and so that we can stop having suspensions and get to get get through our schedule. Also, here's all the medical facts that show that it's safe. I think that's okay. I don't

have an issue with that totally. I mean, you can frame it as the same way that when you go off the college, you're supposed to get vaccinations, right, and it is a little bit different. And I do understand the apprehension because this is a vaccine that was basically produced in twelve months, and it did not have the normal clinical trials that any other vaccine would have, and they did some different things. It's m r NA versus

kind of your classic vaccine. Like there are I think a lot of reasons for apprehension just relative to getting a a normal vaccine quote unquote, but it is definitely in the best interest of the league to do this and for like this season to continue at the pace they wanted to and for the playoffs to start in May, and for there it will be less COVID delays and COVID postponements. And I mean Charlotte and San Antonio going through one right now, they've each missed their last two

games and they might miss their games this weekend. That's gonna continue to happen if you know that we don't have more players or any players get the vaccine, right. So, yeah, it is it is definitely in the best interest of the league to do it. It's just the optics are are really really shaky. And I do understand the stands of the players too. This is one of those things where I'm probably not gonna come down hard on either side because I I truly do understand both sides here.

Whereas like the last situation we talked about, the Draymond thing, I was probably a little bit more opinionated about it. This is just this is one of those things where it's like, look, man, if you want to get it, great, get it if not, I totally understand where you're coming from, because I think the apprehensions that a lot of them have are the same apprehensions that a lot of Americans

have about getting the vaccine right now. And that's not to say I'm an anti vaxx or anything like that, but point being like, this is something that we we really don't have a lot of data on and and for somebody like me who relies on being analytical and data for a lot of my approach to life, that is something that is a little bit scary. But pointing, if the league wants to continue at the correct pace, then yeah, they should absolutely push the players to do this.

The p s A stuff is weird, but definitely they should have as many players are that are willing to get the vaccine to get it. Yeah, I agree, And uh, it'll be interesting to see because like this, this was something I tweeted about earlier. But I don't think that there's actually a large number of players afraid to take the vaccine. I don't think that that's the case. I think that it didn't want to say I didn't watch say that there was a good amount of resistance from

the players. Do you think that's I think thing. I think that I think the resistance was more directed towards the P S A S, which I get and and he specifically said in his piece basically that their tentative, especially in light of them being forced to go to

the All Star Game in Atlanta. So now I don't have data on this, but my guests would be that the majority of the pushback in this piece is more directed towards leverage in hopes of getting the All Star Game canceled so that they can have more time off

in the middle of the season. That's just my guess, like there, because everything in life is about leverage, especially when you look at these these pieces, which is are are basically reporting, right, So like somebody's going to WOJ and saying, I need you to write this piece, And my guess is that in this case it's the owners and WOES probably went to Michelle Roberts and was like, what do you guys want to say in this piece?

And I'm sure Michelle Roberts was like, we don't love the way this looks in light of what uh they're trying to get us to do in Atlanta, And then here come you can kind of like try to draw the picture from the from the reporting, and and I think that's I think that's probably where where this is going. But uh, like I said, I think there's probably an agreement to be had, Like get sit down at the table with these guys, be like, you know, uh, do you are you interested in in uh making a deal?

Do you guys want to maybe consider giving up the All Star Game? But in return we get you all

vaccinated in in early March? Is part of an ad campaign because I think the important part of the ad campaign is, you know, as is usually the case, there's an ulterior motive to every charitable contribution that that most big businesses do you know like and in this case, like the the I think the NBA is saying like, if we have to wait for the public to get it, then we have to wait potentially Fauci was saying, potentially the late April early May, which which might be too

late to necessarily help the regular season and be in time for the playoffs, but not much else. So I guarantee the league was like, what if we use these p s A s as an excuse to do it

in March? And basically now we're working with the state governments and it's like, a we can skip the line a little bit as part of these p s. A. So that'll be the the interesting thing to kind of figure out what they're working on behind the scenes, because that would be my guest, because they're never in a million years with the players agree to do those p s as just for poops and giggles, like it's got to be for has to be for something having to

do with beating the line. And they did mention easing COVID restrictions on teams that do our players that do get they the vaccinations. How I mean, yeah, it's all leverage play and we'll see where it goes. Man, it's a weird situation just the fact that we're even here to begin with, where we're talking about whether players need need to get vaccinated for an NBA season to continue. So it's just it's all unforeseen and it's it's nothing

that anybody has really experienced before. So yeah, I don't know. I think the best thing would be for Silver just to actually have a conversation with the guys in the players Association, which is that even happening. It seems like he's always just trying to like channel messages through Michelle Roberts instead of just actually sitting down at a table with the people who matter and trying to make decisions. At least if I'm just reading the between the lines

and the articles, I could be totally wrong. But it just always yeah, it just always seems like he's pushing the message to somebody else and then hoping it gets relayed correctly. Well you, and it's like we talked about earlier, it's just the it's the classic case of of people letting to leaving too much to the imagination when they when they when they release any sort of snippet of information, rather than just coming out and saying what you think.

You know that that was the ironic part about the Kyrie decision earlier in the years, like Okay, well I'm not going to talk to the media. It was like, okay, well that's that's gonna make things worse, actually, because now everything they say about you is gonna be some sort of pontification having to do with you know, what they think you're thinking. You know, it's a referendum on him as a human being instead of just him saying what

he thinks exactly. But let's talk some basketball. So, uh, basically, you and I talked about before the season that we thought that the Lakers were in their own team, um, that no one was going to be able to beat them if they were healthy because of the offseason acquisitions that they made that improved their offense, and just because Lebron Peeking and Anthony Davis making some strides in the bubble. That was kind of the the the reasoning behind all

of that. So then we get into the season and Anthony Davis doesn't really look like himself and there was a lot of guessing as to what was causing that, and uh, then we kind of figure out that it's it was related to a lower leg injury that he's been dealing with most of the year, Which makes sense because you know, they had just started playing stopped playing two months ago before the start of the season, so theoretically it should have been that hard for Anthony Davis

to get back in shape. And so we got twenty three games of him, and in those twenty three games, he looked like a shell of himself. And so now he's gonna be managing this injury. He's gonna be out for at least a month, but There's basically a couple of different ways that this could go south for the Lakers. One, Anthony Davis could come back and he could not look like himself and still kind of just be a shell, a certain percent shell of himself for the entire season,

including the playoffs. Or it could become one of those things where he never actually comes back and he ends up missing the playoff runs. So this to this completely changes the whole UH contender situation, and what was, in my opinion, a one the two or three team field is now kind of like a six team field in my opinion. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna tell you the teams that I think now have a chance to win the title, and then I want you to let me know if there's anybody that I left off.

But so I Brooklyn and Philly out East as teams that now have a definitive, clear cut path to potentially win a championship. Then I have the Lakers and Clippers, and I have the Jazz and the Suns. Is there anybody that I didn't mention that you would add to that list as a team that in the vacancy created by the Lakers dominance, that you think could win a title this year at this to at this exact moment. No, But I think now a lot of teams are one move away, maybe one big move and one small move

away from jumping into contention. Um. And this has been something that I have talked about with some Warriors Twitter people and in some discords, some Warriors discords. If Anthony Davis is out for an extended period of time, you've got to push your chips. And if you're the Warriors, now if you get steps some actual help, but the way he's playing, you can you have a puncher's chance at winning the title without that Lakers kind of domination

hanging over your head. And which goes into a point of I think there's now a lot of teams in that situation, or at least more than there was. I think the Blazers could even be in that situation if Dame continues to play well and CJ comes back and Nerk comes back. Um. I think Boston, if they make the right move, could maybe be in that situation. It would probably be a little bit more complicated for them, but they do have a massive trade exception. They have

a million dollar trade exception. What they which they can use. So there now maybe a mover too away, um, maybe the Bucks. Even if the Bucks make a mover too to improve their roster, and you honest starts to play a little bit better than then he has, honestly, then

there there they have a chance. But point being, I agree with those six, but I also think there's other teams that are now very very close that weren't even close to having a chance before this injury, for sure, and it may cause them to be more aggressive, especially

Anthony Davis. Come. I'm not sure when the trade deadline is, but I would assume it's short after It's it's March this year, Okay, So so theoreticly there will be maybe a week or two of games after the All Star break, and theoretically I would like to see them be extra careful with a D and wait till the end of March to bring him back. But he might be back and people might get to have a look at how good he looks. But so let's let's go down through

the Lakers have. Yeah, the Lakers have no reason to rush him back. In my opinion, they already know what. They already know what Lebron and a D look like as a playoff tandem. They've obviously changed the roster a little bit on the margins, but a lot of the

same important pieces are still there. Um, I don't think chemistry will will really be an issue for them, especially because when Lebron and a D are back, most of the possessions are going to run through them anyway, especially in a playoff series, So rushing him back in any manner would be the wrong move for them. Yeah, I agree, and we already know that with Anthony Davis in there,

they are an extremely dominant basketball team. But like we we've talked about that version of the Lakers at length, so really quickly, let's go over what it would look like, you know, without a D in this case. And so this is something that I talked a lot about over the last couple of weeks. Um. You know, the Lakers have a lot of depth, and they're actually kind of constructed in a way that can win without Anthony Davis.

And I always pointed to their defense, like everyone was so obsessed with Anthony Davis's impact on their defense because of his shop blocking ability, because of how mobile he is if he switches onto a guard to be able to defend and things along those lines. Well, if you look at the roster now, they basically slide slide Kuzma into the Anthony Davis spot. So now you're playing Marcus al at center, who finally started making some shots last night.

You have Dennis Shrewder who finally broke out of his slump last night. You've got Contavious call Well, Pope, You've got Lebron and Kyle Kuzma. That's a pretty good starting lineup. I would put them behind the Clippers starting lineup. I put them. I put them kind of in the same tier as the Suns and the Jazz in the Western Conference as a starting lineup. Their depth is actually, in my opinion, a bit better than what than what you're

seeing from some of these other teams. Like Wesley Matthews as an NBA starter, he started for the Buck flash year. He's a really good NBA player who can defend and knockdown shots. Montrez Harold has been playing really well lately. Uh, there's something clicking for him on defense. In my opinion,

it's ball pressure he's just doing. He's doing a lot better job of using his quickness in length instead of trying to be bigger than guys around the basket, which is just always gonna end up putting him on the losing side. But that's a starter caliber player. Markie Moore's not so much. Alex Cruzo is a starting caliber player coming off your bench. So you literally have in talent Horton Tucker borderline, I don't think yet, but will be a starter lever player potentially come playoff time or by

next year. Really good defensively at this point in the season, and he's one of those guys, one of those young players where when you watch him, it's like every week you're like, holy sh it, he's getting better, Like he's

better than he was last week. And to me that that is just something that tells me a guy has really good feeling, really good basketball i Q. And those are the type of guys that tend to farewell in the playoffs anyway, because they can make basketball reads and basketball plays instead of just being in a super defined I just shoot threes and I can't dribble, you know, and I don't know how to do something when defenses are a little bit discombobulated. Um So point being, yeah,

he's an amazing player. They do have a ton of starter level talent on that roster. Yeah, he's dynamic, like he's got almost like borderline Kawhi Leonard Kawhi Leonard light level defensive ability. And he what was funny is his defensive focus was trash to start the year. It actually cost him a game against Portland because he kept losing the little shooting guard they have him blinking but the literally trend trend. Yeah, but since then, he's come miles

in terms of his defensive focus. He's got incredible length, he's super super strong. Offensively, he's a little touch and go, but you don't mean much from him offensively on that roster. So when he has a great offensive game, it's kind of just like gold. It's kind of like the Crusoe thing, you know, like if Crusoe is making threes, it's like, oh my gosh, this is a fifteen million dollar year level player now. So like there's there's a lot of a lot of depth on that raw and I talked

about this. You know, he had another crazy dunk last night where he spun baseline and a play that he used to just go up and lay up over the last couple of years, and he just went up with two hands and dunked it over Malik Beasley. He's a pretty strong perimeter defensive player and uh, for about three games now, Lebron is starting to look vaguely two thousand eighteen esque in terms of his athleticism, just in his

ability to jump and move laterally. Uh, he's ironically he's kind of cooling off a little bit as a jump shooter, a little bit back, more to too normal. But his athleticism, to me is the bigger thing, because I know two thousand and eighteen, Lebron is is one of the best basketball players I've ever laid eyes on. So I like how good Lebron looks. They defend extremely well at the

point of attack. They're not as good around the rim, but they would go a lot more in on shooting with guys like marcosol And and Mark Mark Keith Morris as as a stretch fives, so you could kind of see like a spacing thing open up for the for the for the Lakers. I feel about that team similar to how you kind of feel about the War years,

but a little bit better. And what I mean by that is like that's one of those teams that against like the Jazz and against like the Sons or against Philly like I could see Lebron just being too much and putting them over the top. But if Anthony Davis can't play, they're not beating the Clippers, and they're definitely

not beating Brooklyn. In my opinion, I just think I just think they that is the talent differential that would be kind of too much of a chasm if Anthony Davis could not come back well Brooklyn just specifically on the Brooklyn match up. Brooklyn shoots a lot of jump shots, but James Harden is probably also the one one of the best room attackers in the league. Kyrie is when he wants to be, Kevin Durant can when he wants to be. Not having Anthony Davis his presence inside would

really really hurt them in that series. Even though they do have phenomenal guys to guard the ball, if you don't have that back end to be that super elite defense against an offense like Brooklyn, you're gonna have trouble because you need you need elite defenders at every position on the floor to beat that Brooklyn team. And that's why I like the Lakers and matchup. If everybody's healthy. But if they don't have a D, that changes the

entire calculus of the series. It becomes something entirely different. But overall, I do agree with your point on the Lakers. They're They're a team that has just a bunch of really good players and then you have Lebron on top

of it. So as long as Lebron is healthy with this roster, they're still one of the top three teams in the West at the absolute worst, and they're probably better than the Jazz because Lebron is Lebron and Utah Jazz don't have Lebron, so and I would pick the Clippers in in a theoretical series if a D isn't healthy, but it's still gonna go probably six maybe seven games, and you know late game situations. I probably trust Lebron

more more than CHOIRPG. So he's having a crazy clutch season, like I I. As of the other day, he was in first, but I'll have to check, but I'm pretty

sure he's still first. And crunch time field goals made again last night, Like after Anthony Edwards made a couple of huge threes to get it close, Lebron made a couple of huge plays down the stretch two where he drove and kicked to uh one where he drove and kicked to a wide open marcusol for three that he made one where he drove and click kicked to Kuzma.

The close out was sloppy, so Kuzma just drove in for a layoup like two plays created by Lebron, and then he hit another like crazy tough step back jump shot that I used the game at the end of the game, and like it's almost like he always was a good closer because he had the combination of decision making to go with his offensive ability like as a score, but now it's like combined with this like unbelievable confidence that reminds me of Kobe Bryant in the late two thousands,

where it just felt like every time the game was close, it just felt like he was going to make the shots to win the game. And and I really, I really think it's just like the the ultimate culmination of like all of the things that he does extremely well with supreme confidence lating games, and and that's something that

can flat out swing playoffs series. So I it's if I was a Laker fan, obviously I'm a Lebron fan, but if I was a Laker fan, like I would be extremely excited about how well Lebron is playing at the end of these games. Yeah, I mean, it's it's the same thing I watched a lot of late career MJ growing up that that was my guy. Jordan's my guy, I mean, with the same last name, so he was

obviously my favorite player. But I watched a lot of his you know, second three Pete Bulls runs growing up because a lot of those games are actually accessible on tape or you know, on ESPN Classic or whatever. It's that same kind of thing where it's like, I know, I'm one of the greatest players ever. I have the confidence that I am, everybody else knows that I am, and on top of that, I have all the accomplishments. There's nothing left for me to do, so there really

is no pressure. It's on the broad at this point. It's all just kind of cherry on top. Whatever he does, it's just extending his own legacy. So I think the confidence and then combined with kind of just that no pressure situation, he's going to be the best clutch player

in the league probably. Yeah. And the best example of it was his game tying three that he made against okay See in the second matchup, he shot like ship that whole game from the perimeter and like for him to all of a sudden like trust his shot enough to make the most important three of the game to send it to ot after he was like I think, I think he was one for nine from three up to that point was just to me, it was just like the ultimate sign of like how far he's come

in terms of his confidence in his shot. Like a Laton games there there is a post championship glow like that. The same thing happened with the Warriors in fifteen sixteen. That's I mean, partly they went seventy three and nine because they were motivated by all the people saying their year before it was fake. But Steph was like unequivocally a way more confident player the next year in clutch situations because he had done it on the biggest stage.

When you've done it on the biggest stage, and like recently, there is no bigger confidence given than that. We see it time and time again, like, yeah, he's gonna be the best player in any series they probably are in. So that's with that roster that might be enough, especially the defense. And like I said, look, going small. We see this with Stephan the Warriors, Like going small is just gonna open things up for their spacing. But like, let's sake way to Brooklyn because you had you had

mentioned Brooklyn. So in the event of Anthony Davis not being we I think we both agree that Lebron and Anthony Davis would kind of physically dominate Brooklyn if they got into a playoff series. But let's say Anthony Davis

is out of the picture. Now, all of a sudden, all you have to do is outscore Philly, who's a limited offensive team, and then you've got to outscore the Lakers, who are gonna be limited offensively on a fact as a result of the fact that they're down to basically one and a half dribble creators with Lebron and Dennis Shruder. So how would you feel about Brooklyn. Let's let's talk about the whole thing, like how would Brooklyn get through Philly and how would Brooklyn get through the Lakers. So

this is a big if. But at this moment, if the setors are fully healthy, and if the Nets are fully healthy, I think I would still puck pick Philly. Then we wright preseason pick. I've kind of stood with them so far throughout this season, and beat has still been incredible when healthy. He is starting to miss more games, so that's maybe knocking his name out of the m v P conversation a little bit, but he still unbelievable and healthy. So I still would side Philly in the

potential matchup, but Brooklyn is closing that gap. Um. They are incredible offensively. Obviously we all knew that was going to be the case, but I think some of the things that they've done I've been really good for even being better than I might have imagined offensively, Like Harden is basically their point guard, and Kyrie talked about this. He said, I'm basically going to be the shooting guard, and I think that's the right move. Harden is the

best passer on that team. He is the best decision maker, He's the best pick and roll guy. That is the guy who you want to have the balls in his hands and Employemaking has always been a weakness for Kyrie. We learned this from Lebron, so absolutely at an emplay like the Kyrie to Lebron, but in this case to James harden is a proven method to absolutely and I think what we're seeing from harden Um is that his best role was never to be a volume score. Houston

just kind of did that. But he in the modern NBA, he actually wasn't efficient for what he was doing. You know, he was shooting mid to low forties from the field and mid thirties from three. Sure in in two thousand seven, that's efficient because the defensive rules were different, spacing was different, it was toffer to get shots at the rim, so shooting percentages. Shooting percentage is always super inflated by the amount, but the free drops exactly and and that that ability

goes away in the playoffs. Right. So, but he's but point being he was going up against players in not players in two thousand seven. So the guys he going up against, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Lebron James, those are all guys who shoot high forties, low fifties, maybe even mid fifties. In the playoffs from the field, they're all shooting thirty five plus from three In stats case, he's shooting low forties from three and hardens like way paling

in comparison to them. So all the talk about him being the greatest score ever was maybe the most ridiculous conversation of all time. That's the one thing I'll always hold over darry Darryl Moore's head. That was the dumbest conversation ever. But Harden has been incredible since he's been there. He's only averaging three points a game, only it's still a lot. He's averaging eleven assist per game and I want to say around eight or nine rebounds. Late he's

been scoring more too. I think, yeah. I mean he scored a bunch against Phoenix last night because you know, Harden and excuse me, Kyrie and Katie were built out. But he's take taking less shots and his splits right now are like, I want to say, forty eighty something. Right. He's more efficient because he's not shooting bad shots and he's playing in a role that actually suits his abilities instead of just taking trying to be a volume score for lack of a better term, that's all he was

trying to be. He wasn't actually trying to do things efficiently in Houston. He was just trying to get up as many shots as possible. Um, they look really good. I'm still he's had a couple of quotes, by the way, over the last week where he's made kind of passive aggressive comments about the way things were in Houston, and I want to be like, dude, it was your fault, Like it was you, Like he said something about how

like we're a true team over here something. I'm like, man, every one of those guys that Houston hated you, because like they literally they came. They came, just shot I have saying we're so glad James is gone, like and then there was another one where he said something stilar but like he just I'm like, dude, look, I'm happy, you're happy now, but shut up about it. Everybody that went there basically hated it, or not even not hated it, but I mean role guys, stars, nobody really enjoyed their

experience playing there. And it all started from the top down. It started from him point being I'm gonna give him some credit because I have been very harsh on Harden. I said he wasn't a top ten player in the league. He's obviously a top ten talent, but I thought he hadn't been a top ten player because he had leaned so far into Mori Bowl that he had screwed over a lot of his own effectiveness by being a guy who was just basically super inefficient because of the volume

of shots he was taking. He's been amazing since he's been broken, been in Brooklyn. He's playing in the correct role. And I think if if they do continue to do this, if they continue to play in this manner, especially when all three guys are healthy, they're beating almost every over five team that they play. Kevin Durant is taking less shots, he's taking less of an offensive role. He's one of the best on ball guys in the league right now

in terms of field goal percentage defended. Um. I want to say he's holding his opponents under fort from the field when he's the one on one matchup. So he's doing a very good job defensively. Um. They still do, in my opinion, need more defensive help. They're gonna need actual rim protection at some point because Joel Embides still will absolutely destroy them in a series if they do

match up. But I am much more optimistic on them than I was even two or three weeks ago when the trade was initially made, because I think we were

both very low on it. I hope they signed Andrew Drummond, that would be that would be my dream scenario as for them to sign Andre Drummond, because I think it would be the ultimate like catastrophic mistake, just because like I really do think that, uh, that there are going to be like obvious decisions that that aren't the right decision, while there are some like some other kind of like lower profile guys that they could find, like a Dwayne Deadman or somebody like that, that that I think would

be much better for what they're actually asking that player to do. You think you think I'm gonna just command too many minutes, even if it's on a buyout, I don't think. I don't think Drummond plays a winning brand of basketball for a for a contender like I think. I think here's the thing with Andre Drummond. Once every couple of weeks he decides to get twenty rebounds and

twenty points off offensive rebound putbacks. But he's very much like Dwight Howard and the fact that he demands the ball in the low block when he has no business having it down there. As far as his defense goes, he's a little bit of a shot block chaser in the sense that like any decent high i Q team, like as on White side, like as on White side, where he's just jumping in everything and now you're giving up like eight offensive rebounds because he's jumping at shots

he shouldn't be jumping at. This is all you need to know, Like, uh, Cleveland is not going to be able to get any asset for him. In fact, they may have to pay to get rid of him or buy him out. And so there's no incentive for them to get rid of him other than the fact that they know Jared Allen is way better. And and what does Jared Allen do, Like Jared Allen is on a post up player, Jared Allen is not taking threes Jared.

All they do is they can rely on Jared Allen to be a like a a presence around the basket defensively who's smart with his length instead of like aggressive with his length. And then on the offensive end, he's got a bunch of vertical gravity as as a lob catcher. Like the center position, unless you're using them like a d as a primary scoring option. The center position is all about doing dirty work. And I don't think that that's necessarily something that Andrew gumand would accomplish for them.

I still can't believe Brooklyn gave Allen up. You know, Okay, I was really confused about this, and you and I were both really confused about this. But I heard that you make the trade work the day that Cleveland through another first round pick to Houston in that trade, and I'll have to look into that. But like, if Cleveland through a first round pick to Houston, you can safely assume that that was in payment for Jared out. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

But yeah, so I think we're I think we're in agreement about Brooklyn as far as like what their path looks like, which is like Kevin Ran defending better, getting a decent buyout guy, you know, James Harden, embracing the playmaking girl, Kyrie Irving basically becoming two thousand sixteen Kyrie Irving in his role in the offense. Um. As far

as Philly goes, though, I agree with you. I think that I think that Joe l Embiad is such a like unbelievable mismatch for them, uh, And I think they have so much length, And I think Ben Simmons is probably the best defender in the league right now. And for guarding. For guarding Kevin Durant and the Matistabel is

a problem they've got. They've got such a Tobias if they've got so much length defensively, ironically, the guy that would worry me for them is Kyrie Irving, because I don't think they have someone who can stay in front of Kyrie. But that I I do think that they have the two way play mixed with the physical offensive dominance to cause them a lot of problems. I just think they would rip muck that series up. I think

they would just ugly, just really ugly. And I think they have enough shooting around him Bead and Simmons now to make it work if if both Seth Curry and Tobias are healthy, I think they have just enough shooting to get it done. If one of those two guys goes down, then they're screwed, even if it's just Seth who's a role player, but they need the shooting that

both m and Tobias provide. No, I agree, and they the big thing is going to be the Anthony Davis situation because I think, I think, I literally think that the Lakers are the much better version of the Sixers. They they have very similar things that they bring to the table, and this like big playmaking forward going with this like dominant mismatch big man in a great defense full of a bunch of There's a little bit of

difference in the way they defend. The Lakers are more ball pressure oriented with less size, and the Sixers are more length oriented and just kind of swallowing up distance with long arms. But but I think the Lakers are a better version of them. So they would, in my opinion, depend on a injury to Anthony Davis in order to actually come out on top in the in the finals. Um, what do you think about Uh, what do you think about Utah right now? I mean my position on Utahs

and change. They still look amazing that they're just they're, like I said a couple of weeks ago, they're playing a brand of basketball that I've never seen, just in terms of the actual efficiency that they're making three point shots with across the roster. Right, even even a team like the Warriors, who you obviously had Stephan Clay and Katie, it was really concentrated their shooting abilities, right. It wasn't like this team wide thing where you have six, seven,

eight guys that can make three pointers. It's a different type of stress on your defense, right. The Warriors version was like more star centric, where it's like you had these three guys you really had to worry about, and everybody else on the team was basically just trying to get them shots at all times, whereas with the Jazz, it's like six, seven, eight guys who are all able

to shoot and all able to make decisions. So one bad step by a defensive player, one wrong assignment, one miscommunication, it starts kind of that cavalcade of events where that ends in an open three or a dunk for Golbert basically, or a wide open lay up for one of their

their perimeter guys attacking the rim. So, I mean, my concerns remain the same about their playoffs ceiling, but in the case that Anthony Davis is not a factor, and maybe Paul George two because he's kind of sort of injured right now, he has the bona demon thing in his foot, nobody's really sure what's going on there. I think I think it's a perfect comp to the Anthony Davis injury, Like, yeah, he don't know, so it's almost exactly pretend like it might not be great, you know

what I mean. Paul George also has a history of coming back from his injuries with no rhythm and not playing particularly well. That was one of those things this offseason is like, oh I was healthy, I got to train with my guy. Well it's like, okay, well now you're just taking a month off. We'll see how that disrupts your rhythm. Yep, exactly. So Utah, it definitely has more of a chance if neither one of those guys

are a factor, meaning Anthony Davis or Paul George. I mean, I could see I could see Donovan Mitchell getting hot enough to beat anybody in a playoff series because we actually have seen it before, right, It's not something that's what We've seen it against Russell Westbrook, and we've seen it against Paul George. We've seen it against Jamal Murray, although not enough to actually win the series. Sure, right,

we haven't seen it against Lebron James. That's not what I'm saying, But we know that he is capable of getting hot for a long period of time, especially in you know, in big moments like that. That is not something he he is unable to do, and it wasn't just one series. He's done at multiple times now, So it looks better now than he did in the past. Oh absolutely, he's a better player. Um, But yeah, they definitely have more of a chance if Anthony Davison Paul

George aren't playing. This is this is their window to a title, right, This is a team like the Jazz. You're probably never gonna win and every if everybody is healthy, but you get some injury, Look now you've got a chance. Now you can rely on your system and you hope that that your star is good enough to get the job done against other rosters that are depleted to what they normally are. So yeah, I haven't moved on them at all. They're just an outstanding basketball team and I

love watching them. So I think I think it's important to understand and respect the fact that they're winning a lot like I don't think that's easy to do. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think it's worth acknowledging that. I think there's a clear reason why they're the best three point shooting team in the league on offense, and they literally lead the league and opponents three pointers made.

So they're doing a great job of kind of doing the reverse analytics thing, like we're gonna we're going to take advantage of it on this end and take it away on the other end. However, you know, I do think that they have like there's a little bit of a gap between what their actual outcomes have been versus what their roster would tell you about them as a team. You know, for instance, like they're not the only team in the league that has guys that can knock down

shots and defend. But yet somehow Joe Ingles and and Bogdanovich and and O'Neil are kind of exceeding expectations in that regard. They're not the old guys, are they Those guys will not O'Neil. O'Neil is not like a career three point guy, but Bogdanovitch and Angles basically are those

are guys who shoot basically every year. No, I I agree, But at the same time, like there are other teams in the league that that have good three point shooters who can defend what I'm sure what I'm trying to talk about as matchups here, So I'm going somewhere with this, but basically with the with the matchups, the way I look at it is like they also have like a good playmaking guard mixed with a good scoring guard, and then they have a guy who can protect the rim,

and then they have a really aggressive score off the bench. That's like the really quick like breakdown of the way

their team works. They do not have a crazy mismatch problem that they can make in a series now other than Donovan Mitchell, who is more or less the same archetype of player that you see and and on a half dozen different good teams in the league, which is this really good scoring guard that if you go under screens he can shoot from three and if you go over the top he's really athletic and get to the

room and score. So like it's not like he presents you know, some sort of monstrous playmaking or uh mismatch. And on the nights where he's not making shots, he's just not as effective, like he doesn't find other ways to affect the game really exactly. And and and he's not a great playmaker, like he's an average he's an

average playmaker. So what I what I what I kind of take away from that is like I try to like you have to look at like the Atlanta Hawks from two thousand fifteen, or like the Rafters from two thousand eighteen as examples, Like when you looked at the success that they were having on the court, being a lot of teams winning a lot of games, so much of it had to do with effort and making shots and and just a really good coaching and all of

this stuff. But then when it came down at the playoff time, there were obvious deficiencies in the way that their roster was constructed. Okay, So that's that's what I think is okay to point out with this Jazz team, and it's simply put, like, I don't think Donovan Mitchell is as good at what he does as the other guys he's going to run into around the league. I don't think Mike Connolly is as good at what he

does as the other guys he's gonna run into. Gobert is fine, but you and I both are kind of I think I think we both respect what he does, but I think he's like John Hollinger was at the other day. Put I was just about to say that, did you hear him? He put him top three in m v P. He said that him and Lebron had the same case, his media his media passion be revoked. That's the most ridiculous fucking are you kidding me? It was. It was bad, and like basically this is his whole thing.

Was like, he's the best player on the best team in the league. And I'm like, first of all, I don't think he's the best player on the best team in the league. But regardless, like you get what I'm we're going with this, Like I don't think that I don't think that they do a thing that is going to scare the best teams in the league when they can face them seven times, and most importantly, I don't think they've faced the two teams that I'm really interested

in seeing them play, our Phoenix and the Lakers. And we're gonna see the Lakers play them here in a couple in a couple of weeks, which is gonna be interesting because even though Anthony Davis is not playing, I think the the Lakers are I think second or third, I think third in the league and taking away opponents

three point shots. So they're a team that's gonna force the Utah Jazz off the line, and it'll be really interesting to see how they audible to that and then Frank Vogel is so good at coming up with defensive game plans. And then the Lake. You're gonna get a great effort from the Lakers in that game because they're gonna have something to prove. That'll be a really interesting one. And then Phoenix is the other one because Phoenix is one of the best teams that chasing teams off the

three point line as well. Chris Paul is great at the point attack. Defensively, they've got all their their wings on the perimeter are actually every bit is good defensively as the kind of wings that uh that Utah is gonna throw at them. So those are that those are the matchups I would just I would like to see a team try to make Utah do something different, kind of like the Milwaukee Bucks last year. It's like, what are you gonna do when Rudy Gobert gets consistently pulled

out of the paint. What are you gonna do when all of a sudden all your catch and shoot threes aren't there? What are you gonna do? Like the that's gonna be the thing to see, Like they beat Milwaukee the other day. Milwaukee famously just lets you shoot three. So that was a recipe for disaster from the beginning,

you know what I mean. So that'll be the the I just want to see how they adapt because in theory, if you actually look at the way they're constructed, they're not really constructed to be a team that succeeds in

the playoffs. If that makes sense. Yeah, to be clear, like I said, I still doubt their playoffs ceiling, right, they can actually be in the playoffs, I would still put the Lakers and the Clippers over them in a series, And if the Warriors make a couple of MOVs to improve their roster, I'm picking the Warriors over them too. I'm sorry, Steph Curry so much better than anybody on

that team. I think they would beat that team. Point being there are a tremendous team, and we in the same way that we owe the two fifteen Hawks, you know, a certain amount of um credence for playing as well as they were, we owe the same to the Jazz, And I think the Jazz is best player in terms of just being a pure score is better than that

two Hawks team had. Right, So, just going off of that model, they have more of a puncher's chance in a series against an actually really really Donovan Mitchell is always like a one in four chance of looking like Dwyane Wade on any given nights. So exactly undercutting that. I'm not undercutting that at all. Um. Let's talk about Phoenix though, So uh well, I'll let you go first on this or what what would it look like for Phoenix to to make it all the way, because this

is a team I'm extremely high on. Yeah, they keep looking better, man, they look better almost all the time a game. And that that was bad? That was that was really bad last night. It's Chris Paul has a few too many of those on his he does, he has way too many of those on his record. And there Phoenix is starting to grow restless about DeAndre Ayton. I think a lot of he's a he's a nice player, and I think he's gonna be a nice NBA player

for a long time. But you picked him over Luca don Chrich like that at some point, like the the frustration is gonna boil over and like it's gonna get I think it might get a little bit ugly there, just because of the pressure that fans almost put on the organization. Um, even though I wouldn't say the Phoenix Suns fan base is a huge one, but point being like it could have turned into an ugly situation. But I think, do you think Devin Booker is better than

Donovan Mitchell? Yes, I do. I think I think he's significantly better. Yeah, I don't even think it's close. Really, I think he's I think he's the type of score that can be the best score in any playoff series against any player in the league besides like maybe three guys an actual mismatch, like one that's three other teams out. Oh, because because he can get a bucket and like legitimately anyway, like he can pull, he can do threes off the dribble, off of off ball movement, he can go into the

midpost and post smaller guys up and get buckets. He can go to the rim, like he keeps getting better at finishing around the rim every year. And he's one of those like classic examples this year specifically, where like his numbers are actually down compared to other years. But he's a better player because he's yeah, it's in a winning context and he's taking a step back and he's giving Chris Paul more playmaking responsibilities and he's like letting

other guys take more shots. And I mean he shouldn't have done that in years, part because the roster sucked, But point being, his numbers are worse. But he's, you know, he's learning how to be a better player because he's taking on less responsibility in a good way. Um yeah, I mean better than Conley, Yes, absolutely, I mean not even a question that And their wings are probably on pars with the Jazz, So I see the point that you're making. You're saying the Sons would probably beat the

Jazz in a series. If you were the Warriors, would you be more scared of the Sons or the of the Jazz? I think I think it's a clear difference, don't you probably These Sons, yeah say the Sun's Um, yeah, they just I think they're They're best two players are just better than the Jazz's best two players. And that's what playoff series come down to a lot of the time, especially if your best two guys are better than their best two guys, which would be the case with Phoenix

and Utah for sure. And even though Chris Paul does have his history of of playoff blunders, and just like last night. I still think there's like the outside chance

he does. Like the two thousand eleven Dirk thing were, like Dirk before two thousand eleven was this guy who always choked in the big moment right and then all of a sudden, it was like a switch flipped and he he had like a three series run where he was one of the best closures that we've ever seen in that in the I mean, they they beat the Spurs in round one and then they kicked the crap out of the Lakers the Thunder. He had like four late game situations where he was just making impossible shot

after impossible shot to close out those games. And same thing against the heat. Like and I'm not saying Chris Paul would do something as crazy as Dirk did in those playoffs, but just I think he might. Really just a question. It isn't out of the question, because he is that great. He's one of the five six greatest point guards of all time. And when he's on, because he was on for a lot of the game that last night, he's just incredible to watch. He's such a

good basketball player. He understands the game. I think he's up over like twenty and seven over his last games, and he's basically like like something in something some crazy like he is peaking again right now. Somehow. He's the only guy like he The only guy I would say that controls the flow of a game better than him in the league right now is Lebron. I agree, that's it, and the only guy Ron. That's what he is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's a six ft version of Lebron. And he was

always going to play himself into shape this season. I thought like he wasn't gonna come and I think that's probably why his numbers were low to start the year. Um, he just wasn't gonna be in shape coming into the year, just because of how weird it is. Like he's very involved with the Players Association obviously, like the dudes, got a lot on his plate. So he's probably like, I'll work my way into shape at the beginning of the season. I'll be good by game twenty or thirty. And that's

what we're seeing. He looks awesome. Devin Booker, like you said, is better than anybody that you taw as for sure, So they might I really hadn't thought about it in this manner, but they really might have more of a chance than you try to go to the finals. They're just they have a lot of guys who have never been there. Eight is really young, Bookers really young still. Um obviously Cam Johnson, who was playing a lot of minutes,

is very young. U Michail Bridges is very young. And those guys are all really good players, but they're still just really young. They're all like it under And that's just if you're lying on that many guys that are that young, it's just gonna be tough to make a deep playoff run. It always is like if you just look through the history of the league, that doesn't really happen. I agree. I think Chris Paul and Jay crowder at a little bit more of a veteran presence. That's because

the Lakers, for the record, have the same problem. I mean, they have a lot of young guys that they depend on. Uh, you know, Anthony Davis is still in his twenties. Dennis shooters in his twenties, like Crusoe and th h t are super young. There are a lot of young guys kind of mixed in that they're that there were a lot I think k cps only like twenty seven or something like that too. Yeah. One of those guys who's been in the League three you feel like fifteen years

but he's years old. Oh yeah, well yeah, that that's just it's like the Brad Beal thing. And ever since they, you know, we ever since these guys have been especially the guys in the Eastern Conference that we're playing in like big Marquee playoff games when they were like twenty two years old. It's just they're burned in your memory

from a young age. Um. Anyway, like, I'm super high on the Sun's because they check all of these boxes that that that I believe in the championship contenters and I've talked to you about it a million times, so I don't dive into it. But it's just that can do you have alpha's that can go toe to toe with the best players in league? Can you defend an extremely high level? And can you uh, are you versatile offensively?

Like can you attack offensively? In different ways? They're touching top five and defense, now, aren't they They're right around like top five. I'll check, but I think they're I think they're already in the top five. But anyway, the I've always kinda used those landmarks as the things that I used to evaluate regular season success. The Suns are sixth and defense right now, yea um, but I use those as as the lens to to kind of evaluate that because you know, you and I talk all the

time about how the regular season doesn't matter. And there are million, literally a million examples in NBA history of a team that had great success in the regular season and for whatever reason, it didn't translate the playoffs success, and and there are a lot of reasons for that. We're not going to get into it, but I think

that's why that's why we're having this conversation. If it was who had the best team in the regular season just always won the title, then we would, uh, then these debates would be meaningless because it would just be like, hey, let's look at the standings. Okay, the standings say the Bucks are the best team in the league. They were on pace for sixty seven wins. Oh wait, they lose in the second round and kind of get boat race because they're actually not built for for that type of

of matchup. And you know, when I look at the Suns, it's like I know that Devin Booker, like there's only a handful of players that can make him really work in the entire league. You know, like maybe a Ben Simmons,

maybe a Lebron maybe someone like that. But like the the if he ends up on any smaller guard, he's taken him into the post, anybody who tries to you know, if he gets some in ball screen situations, he can get him on his hip and get into the mid range to take a little like side step and step back jump shots. You you went over that earlier. He's got such a versatile scoring ability. And then Chris Paul all of the things that he brings to the table that we just talked about. They have tons of length

and shooting on the wing. Michail Bridges and Cam Johnson are both shooting the ball really well. Jake Crowder has been hot, hot and hot and cold. But you know he's he's a more He's as good of a playoff wing as you'll you'll see in the league. As far as role players go. They've got Uh and then Deandreton. You know, the thing with him is he's he's hot

and cold. It will be interesting to see how a player like him UH performs when there's a little bit more steaks because I remember this, like I watched him very closely at Arizona. He's got a love with an ego. He's got like in a good way, Like he's confident

in himself. He believes that he's one of those guys, you know, And in Arizona he played well in the biggest games, Like I remember that just from being a fan of the Wildcats and watching them play, Like I always felt more confident in him in a bigger game than I did in others. And that's just a textbook. Like some guys, it's like the Rondo thing. It's like some guys are just wired in a way that they have hard they have a hard time getting up for

for meaningless games. And physically, like he's about as good as you can do against Anthony Davis. He's a little bit young, obviously, but just in terms of like the lateral quickness, the length, the athleticism, kind of the whole encompassing package. He's got it. Like it is there. It's just Kenny tap into it consistently. And is he good enough mentally to kind of go through the slog of a seven game series. And we've all we've already seen

that when they stagger Chris Paul and Devin Booker. It leads to success because both of them can kind of just run the show while they're on the floor. And as of late, although they started terribly, as of late, they're playing well and both of them are on the court,

so it just they check all of the boxes. And like, you know, if I got into a playoff series watching a playoff series and I was worried about, like, okay, we're we're all these two teams are relatively evenly matched, so every game's coming down to the final ten minutes, okay, And uh, you know in every fourth quarter there, you know, the scores are within five points going into the fourth quarter, and it really comes down to who do I trust to to win four times out of seven Devin Booker

and Chris Paul or Mike Conley and Donovan Mitchell. I'm going with, uh, Chris Paul and Devin Booker. And I think we saw that from Yo Kitchen Murray last year, Like they just even when they were blowing the three one lead, the Jazz blew some late leads again in that and and I think I and it's not because Donovan Mitchell is bad. It's just that when you're going into into the playoffs, especially in the Western Conference, it's

like everybody's good, you know, like everybody's good. The Lakers might be rewarded with Steph Curry for getting the one seed if they happen to get the one seed, or the Jazz might might be rewarded with Steph Curry, Congratulations, you get Steph Curry for seven games like that. That's the nature of the Western Conference. And and I think, like, I think it's okay to point out the fact that, like there's a reason why we're surprised about how well

the Jazz are playing. It's because it doesn't really make sense for them to be as good as as they have appeared to be here and here in the early going. Yeah, the regular somebody on the Ringer Road an article the other day I want to give credit words due um. It was Zach Cram, who does who's a really big analytics guy, super into the numbers. He basically the thesis of the article was, the NBA is a maker misleague more than ever. It's just dependent on variants and are

you making your shots or not? Because teams are shooting a lot of threes, and most teams don't know how to defend threes, and I think his overall conclusion is somewhat correct. But in the playoffs, teams do know how to defend the three. They just take it away, right, They just take away threes from your good shooters and they make you do something else. We see it every single year, So the probably looks there are no open looks. Defenses just lock in more right there. Night to night.

In the regular season, it is hard to chase guys around for forty eight minutes and defend forty three point attempts. But when you actually get into the weeds of it and game plan for it and say, okay, we're taking away this guy's this guy likes to do this, and this guy likes to do that to get his shots,

and we're gonna leave these guys. We're not going to leave these other guys, it just becomes harder to create those open look consistently so that that would be what Utah is gonna run into and then to piggyback off of that. Phoenix. All the things you've pointed to with

Phoenix are correct. And Booker is like the best young scorer in the league, Like not counting Lebron James or Kevin Durant, Since like Kobe, if you look at just the numbers, like the true shooting, that the points per game, all that stuff, like it's those three, it's Kobe, Durant, Lebron and Devin Booker over like the last twenty five years in the post MJ era, Like he's that good

as a score he's incredible. And Monty Williams is a phenomenal coach, Like he doesn't get enough credit that that franchise is still kind of like an organizational mess, but they made the right higher at the top. They hired the right guy. Like the culture has absolutely shifted there and basically an eighteen month period to where they went from one of the worst situations in the league to where in the bubble they were like the most fun

team to watch. And now they've come into this season and they're they're one of the best teams in the West. So I don't think it can be understated. With a phenomenal job he's done um and that, and that also obviously matters in a playoff series, you know how, being a really good coach who was willing to make adjustments, And it seems like He's the type of guy that

would definitely do that. In a regular season where not many teams have been able to separate from the pack, the Sons have managed to put a little bit of separation from the pack. And I'm talking about all those teams that are hovering within a few games of five hundred and and so I think I think it is their credit. And like I'm just saying, like when we're splitting hairs, because all this is splitting hairs, Like the Jazz, Lakers, and Clippers are all within a few games of each other.

The Suns are only a few games behind that, Like the if you look out East, like you know, Brooklyn's like actually kind of in the middle of the pack with their records. So all of these teams have flaws.

We're splitting hairs. And all I'm saying is like when I when I'm splitting hair, because you know, and again we're not hating on the Jazz, like the this is this is a proven thing in NBA history that every year there's that team that just wins a lot of games in the regular season, and for whatever reason, it doesn't translate. And usually there's a reason. It's like last year you know, the Bucks won a million games and you know, uh, and it didn't trans to the playoffs

and there was a clear reason. Oh wait, their elite high end shot creation is not there. You know. Two two thousand eighteen, you know, the Toronto Raptors win fifty nine games and get swept by a bad Calves team, you know, by a bad Calves team, and and like literally that that that you look at that team and you're like, oh wait, they're alpha dogs. Can't go toe

to toe with the biggest stars in the league. Like like de Marta Rosen is like way too passive in those types of moments, Like he just he kind of plays worse than he Like anybody could have seen that writing on the wall, and it's not hard to kind of interpret those kinds of things. And so I think we have evidence of this being the case. You know, we gave some other examples earlier. We have as evidence of this being the case. There there are a ton of examples. We're just trying to find out if the

Jazz are that team this year. And I think it's okay to to guess that. Yep, totally in agreement, so real quickly before you go, because I know you gotta go the uh. We didn't talk much about the war years, but I I made this point and I wanted to hear your response to it. So, you know, I think, you know, I think Lebron was unbelievable in two thousand eighteen. Like, make no mistake, I'm not trying to undercut that at all.

But there's the obvious backstory that they beat a pretty flawed Indiana Pacers team and then they beat that pretty flaws Celtics team. The real, the reird, weird outlier was the fifty nine win Raptors that they just literally destroyed and by the end of that series like that mentally just put them into like oblivion. But you know, I would say that that Indiana Pacers team and that Boston Celtics team would be somewhat equivalent to what you're going to see at the bottom of the West this year,

teams in that seven to ten range. And so I think it's important understand that they almost lost both of those series. They trailed in the fourth quarter of the Game seven against the Celtics and then against the Pacers, they were basically like a crazy fourth quarter from Lebron and Kyle Korver from going down three one in Game

four in Indiana. So what I think is going to be interesting to see is like I think, I think the two thousand eighteen lebron thing has made people think that it is possible for Steff to maybe overcome some of this. But I think that it's very possible that Steph ends up in the play in and and that it's going to be a couple of dog fights, especially if he ends up in like a nine seed and

he has to win twice. And I think like people are gonna think, oh, eight seed, like this will be easy, but that's not the way it is in the West, and it's gonna be an extremely tough matchup. And I'm wondering what you kind of at this point are thinking about what it could potentially look like for the Warriors in a in a short playoff run. They would have to be the sixth seed for me to feel really comfortable, right, Like, if you're in that play in, it's just a crapshoot, man.

I mean, obviously, if they're the seven or eight, I would feel confident that they're going to be one of the nine or ten seeds. Once. Um, I think I don't think they are done adjusting the roster. I do think there are moves, not big necessarily, but I do think they will make up probably a couple moves near the deadline, especially if they continue to win over the next two to three weeks. Right, Like, they keep showing signs that this is a team that's improving. They just

needed some time to gel together. It was a very new roster with a bunch of guys who have really never played basketball together, with a shortened training camp and a shortened preseason, and they really just needed some time to figure things out. And they are showing time I've ever seen. That was the worst offense and worst defense in the league through two weeks and then suddenly became, you know, the middle of the pack type of team,

Like that's crazy to me. Correct and they still, I mean they still really struggle against good teams, like really struggle there. They're like five and eleven against good teams and ten and two against bad teams, essentially the dividing marker being over N think part of that, I I saw that said the other day. I think part of that is they haven't closed games particularly well, which I think because stef is a good closer, yeah, yeah, I

mean it's a lot of things. I think it's also they just they get down big too good teams because they'll be kind of within Viking distance and the bench comes in and then all of a sudden, it's like a fifteen point game. That that happened with Brooklyn on Saturday. Like it was maybe like a five six point game at the end of the first quarter by the time Steph got back and it's like fifteen or twelve. And now Brokelym makes a couple of shots when you get

back in and the wheels come off right. Um. So I don't think they're done making moves. Um. I think they're gonna try to improve this roster, especially because they have four fairly easy games over the next week two weeks. They should be able to win at least three of those. They get four or five games above five hundred, if you know, the front office gets more optimistic, they actually

get healthy again. Um. And I just think Stephen Draymond in a playoff series against any of these like mediocre teams, I'm still picking them, especially if they can get like another shooter and maybe somebody to help the second unit a little because the defense has been really good. It's just that offense is so bad when Steph sits there.

I want to say, their offensive rating when he's on the floor even it's like one fifteen, And they started this season it was like, you know, one oh three overall because they were playing Ubray and Wiseman together there a lot and those guys just don't function well on like a very complex reads heavy system. Um. But it's like one fifteen when he's on the floor, and when he's off the floor, I want to say their offensive rating is like one point three, like it would be

by far the worst in the week. So they still do have a really good offense when he's on the floor, even though they're eighteenth or ninething and offensive rating. If they can do a couple of things on the margins, I really don't think they're that far from being They're not in the top tier of the West, but they would scare any team outside of the l A t l A teams. I still think that if they make a couple moves, I would be a couple of moves

aren't necessary, Like a couple moves are necessary. They if they just stand pat with the current roster, I'm basically out on this team because there just isn't enough there. The bench is too bad. They have too many guys playing in the wrong role to actually scare any good team. Interesting, Yeah,

like to be clear, I would be scared. I'm literally just saying, like, you know, just under scrutiny, Like when I really look back at you know, the camp, the comp would be two thousand eighteen because it's like similar different it's it is differently of the cop A tition

the competition. But that's what I'm saying. But if they get into the play and that's the type of team they're gonna be playing, And that's my point is like you would have thought going into that Pacer series, like, dude, there's no way Lebron and Kevin Love are losing this series, and especially with Lebron being at that version of himself, which was I I like, you know, arguably the best version of themselves. Now Draymond I think is better than Kevin Love. But but you get the point though, And

and yeah, I mean the teams. The teams in those play ins Sacramento, UM, Memphis, Dallas, Dallas they man handled once and then the next night they the next game they didn't play as well because they only had eight guys on the roster and they ended up losing. They've kicked Sacramentos ass uh. They've beaten San Antonio like they've They've been san Antonio twice badly and they lost to him once. Like the teams in that kind of tear right near five under five hundred, they're beating them soundly.

It's the teams that are like a couple, like the Phoenix is, the brook Wins, the Phillies, the Lakers, the Jazz, the Clippers. Those are the teams that are beating the crap out of them. I really wouldn't worry about them against the play end teams on That's an interesting difference because the two thousand eighteen Calves were very mediocre against bad teams because they had trouble getting up. Yeah, but then they had a bunch of really impressive wins. So

so you're you might be onto something there. I just, well, it'll be interesting to see. The thing about step is like against the bad teams, they always end up losing him and if you give him enough open looks, he's eventually going to break the game open. That's just how he works, right, Like With Lebron, it's different because he has to be locked and he has to have his energy because he's more of just a rim attacker like that requires a certain amount of like mental energy and

physical want to. With Steth, it's just, oh, he's he has eight open threes a night, six of those are going down. That's that's why he's scoring forty against the Magic. That's why, like, that's why they're just crushing the team. It's magic. They kept losing him in transition. I couldn't believe. It was ridiculous, Like it's like, you're you just gonna keep giving him wide open three. So they're going to continue to beat the crap out of the bad teams.

It's more so, can they make enough improvements to where they just don't have these spells where they they can't score for like in six minutes in a row because their bench is so bad. The game is funny because I just I just watched the fourth quarter and like I I turned turned it on like ten minutes left in the fourth quarter, and Sacramento had taken the lead back in the non staff minutes. Uh, but Steff hadn't come back in yet. And over the course of the

next few minutes. Like now, there there's a lot of talk about how Orlando is so destroyed by injuries that it's basically Nicolas Vosovic and four non NBA players, But like Ubra and Wiggins just put this relentless ball pressure

on the ball handler coming up the court. They can do that, and you could literally see you could literally see Orlando just completely get out of pace, completely get scared, start rushing to and it was just like turnover run out, dunk, turnover runout shot, turnover run And I was like, holy cal like and that's the interesting thing with that team is that they're starting to make sense in the sense that it's like Ubray and Wiggins are just like these

ridiculously athletic, like ball pressure wings, and then Steff is

Steph and Draymond is Draymond. And that's why I agree with you, Like, if they make a couple of moves that they were willing to move Wiseman and that stupid pick from next year and just dive into this era and and commit um Man, like, it could be scary because there's some stuff on that team that makes legitimate basketball sense as dangerous that's totally being out potential that that and I've been trying to make that point toward to people who don't want to go all in for

right now, there is no other choice in my mind. You have one of the best three players in the league playing at his absolute peak, and he's also one of the twenty fifteen greatest players of all time, Like there is no other time there might not be a player as good as this on the Warriors for the next fifty years. Like betting that James Wiseman might be a really good player one day, which he might be, he very well might be. That's not the bet you

want to make. You want to make the bet on the guy who's the best player that this franchise is ever gonna see for probably either of our life times. By the time somebody as good as step Currey plays on the Warriors again, it will probably be probably be the year. Like that's how good this dude is. You have to go all the right now is no other choice in the Minnesota pick combined being as good as staff are like one in fifty Like it's that I

agree that. I mean, they ask yourself, like you know, given the uh, the fact that Houston almost beat Golden State in two thousand eighteen without Chris Paul. Like imagine, I literally sit there sometimes and I'll be like, that's why you trade the Collin Sexton pick, like you you trade the calling Sexton pick because now you have Collin Sexton, a guy who is a very middle of the pack guard in a league where that position is unbelievably stacked.

Or you could have traded him, and then a couple of things break your way and all of a sudden you're playing against the wounded Houston Rock Paul George. Maybe could have I could have a chance won the title. That's what I'm saying, is like you have it's gambling, but it's like, to me, it's a better gamble than kind of towing that line either way and never committing. You know, the Lakers did the Lebron experiment with experiment

with the young guys. They tried it for like three months and then they were all just like, screw this, let's go get Anthony Davis. And Anthony Davis, to be clear, isn't on the market right now. There isn't a level that level of guy out there for them to go get. But there are like really good players who are available Bradley Beal, Zach Lavine, like guys who would I don't know what it would look like moving forward. Right, the

the fickets a little bit clunky. If play is still really good and you have Levine and or Bal on that roster, it's three guards. It's not great defensively, but those guys still have value moving forward. Those guys are incredible scores. Other teams would want to take those guys, you know, other teams with scoring deficiencies. Like let's say you get Beal and then you turn around, you want to trade them for like Miles Turner and a couple

of Indiana's wings. I think Indiana would be into that right, same thing with Levine, Like the Warriors have to be thinking not just the one move. It's like, what's the move and where can that get us in the future? If Clay is still Clay right, so I would point being step looks so good. He looks so good, better than ever, which is something you and I talked about

last week. If you give him zach Lavine or Bradley Beal and you don't absolutely have to gut the roster for it, like the guys who are currently helping, Like if you only have to move Hooper a Um and Wiseman, and you bring in Deal and then you have Bal Wiggins staff Draymond and then who's ever at the five, who's better than that team in the West besides of a healthy Lakers team. I'm dead serious. Yeah, So, like I just I think it's it's foolish not to go all in with as good as step In it is

right now. No, I agree. It's just like you have the second best player in the world in my opinion, playing at the very top of his game, and you've got two super young assets, one of which you literally don't know what it's going to be. Yet it has the highest value it will ever have right now because they might not even get the pick this year. That's

the kicker. It's top three protected. And I know Steps not washed yet, But like, I wouldn't count on him being like a Lebron or he's super effective in his late thirties. I would plan on being like two three years here where you have a real chance. That's the windows three years. But dude, I've taken enough of your time. I know you've got plans tonight, so I'm gonna let you get out of here. And get the rest of your work done. Everybody listened in, I really sincere, really

appreciate you guys as always. UM, I'm going to release the podcast version probably here in about twenty minutes, but everybody enjoyed the rest of your week and your weekend, and Tommy and I will see you probably next Tuesday or Wednesday. Thanks everybody,