Episode 21: NBA MVP Check In With Tommy Gunn @TGunn21

refreshed on Mondays instead of hungover. So just just coming through a like a life altering experience at the beginning of each year where you're just connected to nature and just in just all wrapped up in health. I like that, dude.

I can't. It's impossible for me because in inevitably every spring my family ends up going on a couple of ski trips and uh and you know, uh, my family in particular, I don't like to do this too much, but they like to drink on the slopes, which I think is absolutely crazy because like it stresses me out enough the risk of getting hurt on skis and adding

alcohol to that mix is just like deeply unsettling. Um. But anyway, I am excited to announce that I don't plan on going out of town for a while, which means it will be a little bit easier for you and I to get into somewhat of a rhythm, um and to get a little bit better about consistently talking in the same stretch of the week so that we can get in a in a habit. Tonight we're gonna do our or today we're going to do our m

v P rakings through one fourth of the season. Tommy and I were talking and we really wanted to touch on some specific teams. We wanted to touch on Utah, we wanted to touch on Denver, and we wanted to

touch on Brooklyn after after the James Harden trade. And I thought this would be a cool way to do that, because, first of all, it's a fourth of the way through the season, and when you really are looking at m VP rankings, you got to remember all these chunks of the season because they all kind of add up to that that case at the end of the year that ends up being you know, who ends up winning the award, and then also gives us a great chance to kind

of branch off and talk about those teams, Um, what we will uh not be doing today is talking about some crazy chicks sitting courtside at a at an Atlanta Hawks game, because I feel like there's plenty of that talk to be had out there, and honestly, man like, I don't even know what to say. If I can say one thing about that. It has nothing to do with the fan herself or Lebron fan interaction at games

as normal. I think it's expected, But my thing would be, why are there fans sitting courtside we are I thought it was really weird too. We are less than ten days out from Saku Smith, one of the NBA's biggest broadcasters,

passing away from COVID complications. But we're having fans of games just the way that that silver in the NBA are treating this after going the whole woke route and you know, saying that black lives matter, and then they're turning around and doing the total opposite their true in the NBA, how Trump treated COVID. They're saying, Oh, it's kind of a States rights thing. If you want to

have fans in your arena, we can't stop you. It just feels very, very hypocritical from the position that they've taken over the summer to where they are now, where they've claimed to be. Oh, were this big moral upstanding lead compared to the NFL and MLB, and yet they look exactly like those leagues. Now, I'm not blaming the NBA for being a business at the end of the day,

that's their job. What I am blaming is the hypocritical nature of the stances they have taken and now what they're doing, because what they're doing, they are not saying that black lives matter, because they're putting black lives at risk every single day. So I just wanted to hit that real quick and get that out there. I'm not I don't want to go to the lebron thing with

the fan at all. I just want to get it out there that the NBA looks incredibly hypocritical right now, especially from the stances they took over the summer with a lot of their their social positions, and specifically Silver, he just he gets on my nerves a lot because he tries to be the moral standard of commissioners in sports, and he really isn't that guy. At the end of the day. He's worried about the bottom line, as he should be, but he shouldn't act like he's gonna and

about other things when he's really not well. For starters, Uh, I don't necessarily care about them, uh having fans way up in the nosebleeds because they can space them out, you know, ten chairs from each other, and they can do and they're so far away from the court that it's not even conceivable that they could cause a problem.

But I remember thinking the exact same thing, Like, as the altercation was happening, I'm like, whoa, they look really close to the players, you know, and like, and my my thing was is, like, like I where I would be upset is if if I was the Lakers, I would be upset that this lady was pulling off her mask and arguing, you know, fifteen feet or so away from Lebron, even though it's technically outside of six ft. Because it's like, it's all fun and games for the lady.

She gets kicked out, she gets to go be a star. But Lebron like, if he gets it, he's out for two weeks and it could literally turn around the fortunes of the team for that season. So yeah, that was that I thought was really weird. As for like the what you brought up about the the whole you know, moral posturing. You know, I think that I think that one of the biggest lessons that I've learned in my adult life is that there's a huge I mean, it's cliche,

but there's a huge difference between actions and words. It's it's the it's the reality of the situation. Like you will always meet people in the business world, you'll meet people, and when you're trying to build relationships, you'll meet people when you're watching movies or when you're watching sports, they're always gonna tell you something about who they are. And and this is a huge deal in politics, and it drives me insane. But that just doesn't mean anything to me.

It doesn't It doesn't matter to me that you pat someone's back on Twitter. It doesn't matter that you take some big, you know, moral stand on Twitter. It doesn't matter to me that you say something in an interview on the news or anything along those lines. That's all posturing to me. The only thing that that defines you as a human being is what you do. Uh. And quite frankly, like I just I'm I'm over that and

I don't care. And the other side of that is, Like, I also don't care that the NBA is hypocritical and that there are a big business who only has their own best interests at heart because they're the n b A, They're they're a professional sports organization. I don't wake up in the morning and think about like you know, oh man, like I'm I'm really hoping the NBA does nice things today, Like I don't care. That's not what they are to me. It's like it's like caring what what type of human

being Connor McGregor is. It's like the dude is literally like trained to beat other human beings to a pulp. He's probably not going to be the most upstanding citizen you've met. So I think I think people need to delineate between those two things and pay closer attention to the people that are actually in your life and the things they do rather than the things they say. And

who cares about any of that other stuff? Honestly, Yeah, it's just the opposite or the contrast between the actions and the words that bother me, right, Like what kind of like you're pointing to the NBA says says one thing that they do another. If they just want to act like a business. Fine, that's why people love the NFL at the end of the day, because the NFL doesn't try to right around and say something that they're not. At the end of the day, they are a business

and they operate as a business. They're always concerned about the bottom line, as they should be. And I think the NBA, the people would look at the n b A in a better light if they just acted like that, if they just said, look, we have to do what's best for the NBA and we're always going to do that. Yeah, I hear you. And and like, as the latest incident has been this this All Star Game thing, and people are upset about that, And what I would respond to

that is like, are you surprised? Like this whole point of doing this season was to try to find the safest way possible within uh, within the the goal, the ultimate goal, which was to fulfill as much of the TV contract as possible. It was very important to the players that they got the chance to play in the Olympics because of all the the international guys that feel very loyal to their country. It was very important to the players that they salvage the c b A and

make as much money as possible. It was very important for the owners in the exact same respect. So it was they made a decision to start playing basketball from December to July, and as part of that goal, they wanted to fulfill to the best of their ability their TV obligations, which included seventy two regular season games, and as part of their T and T contract, they probably found out that they could make a great deal of

cash if they played the All Star Game. And so what I would say is like, at least they're testing three times a day, and they're doing these PCR tests before the game, and they're doing at least as much as they can. But like I'm what I'm saying is like, if you're going to complain about what the NBA is doing in terms of going through the season and playing the All Star Game, you're kind of like crying into

the wilderness because they don't care. The owners don't care, and the players don't care, and and and you're not you're not viewing them. They're not the you know, the moral arbiters of society. They're literally just a professional sports organization, and so we need to stop holding them to the standard of like, you know, someone who's in a real position of moral authority and society, if that makes sense.

And I when with that, I think they should be doing all the things that they're currently doing to have this season go on. I just don't want them to act like they're not going to and then go and do it. That's the only part that bothers me right now. That's the nature of it. That's the hypocrisy, and like and that's the thing, Like I know, that's that's been the big joke the last couple of days with the UH, with this stuff, with the stimulus checks and the Democrats

and all that crap. It's like it's like, well, dude, like this has literally been the way this entire business has been the right and the left for my entire lifetime and for centuries before that. So like stop trying to like everyone does this. Every single business that I've ever known goes about a pr campaign in an attempt to try to portray some sort of humanity. But you gotta forget about that. Those guys are about dollars and cents. They don't care about anything else. And that even goes

down to smaller businesses. That's just the nature of the the same goes me and my family and every other family.

Like when push comes to shove, I'm gonna look out for my wife and I. Now, if we come into some great deal of wealth and we have an opportunity to to donate and to do kind things for the great for the rest of society, sure, but I sure sure as hell not wealthy yet and where I am right now, like, I'm looking out for our interests, and I would much rather to your to your point, I'm much rather people just be honest and say that, like, hey, we're looking out for our interests right now. You know,

you know that's that's literally all I'm asking. Just be honest about what you're doing because we can all see it. We're not dumb. People are dumb. They can see right through b s for the most part. So that's let's talk some basketball. So we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna go through the m v P rankings. We're gonna start with number one, where I think you and I are

gonna probably disagree. So to be clear, I I said in a pod last week that I thought Joel Embiid was the m v P. But as I was digging into the numbers, and as Joel sat out yet another game the other night, I've actually age did to Lebron. Now, for starters, I am a Lebron fan, I should disclose my bias here. However, I also think I'm right. I think Lebron is the m v P and the reason is is very simple. So for starters, for each of these players, I'm gonna read out their per thirty six stats.

They're shooting percentages, and I'm gonna read their their net rating on and off. I'm gonna do that for all the players, just to kind of to put some context on what we're talking about. So Lebron is twenty seven eight and eight per thirty six minutes. He's shooting from the field fort from three seventy from the line. The Lakers are plus eleven point three when he's on the court in minus one point four when he's off the court.

The Lakers are a half game out of the best record in the league, and they currently are tied for the second best net rating in the league. The reason why I would pick Lebron number one, and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this, because I would imagine you disagree, is for starters. He's been excellent on the defensive end of the floor, even better than he was last year, and it has led the Lakers to having

the best defense in the NBA. Availability. He has played every single minute or not a minute, every single game this season. He's been available in a way that we didn't expect him too considering the backstory coming into the season. So that's what I put is my third item on my list. With circumstances, this was a team that came off a seventy two game or seventy seventy two day

post off season and had just won a title. There was every reason in the world for them to slip and to come into the season not trying, and he didn't let them. He is the reason. His effort and focus to start this season is the reason the Lakers are off to a hot start. And last but not least, he's got that playoff pedigree. He's got the background that legitimizes his regular season success in a lot of ways that you know, say Janice doesn't have, or a James

Harden doesn't have. So am I crazy? Where where do you win on having Lebron number one at m v P? So I don't think you're crazy. Labron has been better than I expected this season everything considered. I thought he would probably struggle offensively relative to his standards to begin the season, specifically with his shooting, and it's actually been

the opposite. Um He is probably having, all things considered, the best shooting season of his career, even better than that season in Miami when he shot around from three because of the volume and his willingness to take threes um. He has never looked as confident in his three ball, and I thought, I think maybe some of that is kind of that post championship glow where he's coming off that championship. He feels as confident as ever, and he

looks as confident as ever. His control and mastery of the game at this point is something that very few players, I think, in the history of basketball ever have touched. He has been phenomenal this year, and I can't sit here and say you're crazy for picking him m v P.

I don't agree. I have him be one at this point just because the Sixers literally just won their first basketball game of the season without him yesterday, or I might have been two days ago against the Pacers, but either way, I think it comes down to how you define m p P. Right, Lebron is having a magnificent season, but that Lakers team is really good and really deep, and he's playing with another top six seven player and A d hasn't been that guy so far this year.

But the talent is still there and the reputation is still there, which means other teams have to account for that, and Beat on the other hand, doesn't have as much help even though they have improved that Rosster. He's been probably a top three defensive Player of the Year candidate, and they don't win games without him. So if we're going by the definition of who is the most valuable

to their team, I think it's imbeat Um. The bronze case would be built on Obviously he's looked amazing and then like you're saying availability, so no, I don't think you're crazy. I would just go and Beat at this point, But if he does continue to miss games, I think the conversation will continue to shift towards Lebron. And it is real quick. Let's let's read off and beads numbers. So he's he's thirty two, thirteen and three per thirty six.

That's incredible from the old from three from the line, the Sixers are plus thirteen point to purb one possessions when he's on the floor and minus four point one when he's off the floor. Um, but he's missed four of their last twelve games. Um, he's only played in sixteen games this season compared to twenty two for Lebron. At a certain point, to me, that is a factor in the m v P race. I mean, he's missed a third of their last twelve games. That's pretty crazy.

And to your point, he's so good that they they have really they have a lot of trouble winning when he's not playing. And my my question would just be, how do you factor that into an m v P race, you know, considering you know, availability is the best ability. As you know that cliche goes right, So his net rating swing is ridiculous. I think that the probably the number one thing I point you, beside the per thirty six numbers, which are just outrageous. Um, I'm not concerned

about the availability stuff yet. If you know, if we get sixties games into the season and he's only played forty, then yeah, it's absolutely gonna factor in. But as the season goes. If he stays healthy, he's only gonna have missed six, seven, eight games, So I don't think that will be enough miss time to really factor it into

the m v P race. I think you would have to play less than sixty games for me to truly factor that and say, Okay, now, he might have been amazing for those fifty eight or so games, but Lebron played seventy one of seventy two games, so he would deserve it over em beat Um. So at this point I still have em beat. If he doesn't continue to miss more games, I think Lebron will probably overtake him. Even though your kitchen is coming harder. I'm sure we'll

touch on very soon here. Yeah, And like the it's all part, like we talked about at the beginning, there's these chunks of the season, and so there's a story of each chunk. Like if you look last year, you know, the first chunk of the season, Lebron was right there, you know, in the in the hunt with the honest and then there was this like chunk in the middle of the season, like where the Lakers went in a

little bit of a slump. They lost like four games in a row, Janice was putting up crazy numbers and the Bucks were winning every game, and he was like very very available. He's playing almost every night. But then there was like this fourth chunk of their third chunk of the season before the season got suspended, where all of a sudden Lebron looked better and you kind of build this this picture. And all I'm saying is that in this first chunk of the season and Beads, availability

has been a problem. So obviously, if that projects to continue that way and he misses, you know, five games each chunk of the season, then he's gonna miss twenty games, and then we're and then we're talking about a serious problem for his m v P case. And and I I've you know, one of two things is gonna happen

with Lebron. Either he's gonna go full two thousand and eighteen where he just plays every single night, or he's gonna go through a stretch where he's having a nagging injury and he ends up, you know, taking his foot off the gas, and that'll all end up being part of the part of the story down the line. Um. The other thing I didn't go ahead. I think the thing with the different chunks of your of the season.

As you're laying out, is we always act like these things are decided so early, right, everybody on Twitter saying, Oh, it's a done deal, Lebron is already gonna win. The narratives behind him, this and that. But we saw last year that it literally changed three times, right. I think we jumped at conclusions and everybody wants to get mad about of about the swirling narrative, but we just gotta

let these things play out. I would like I'm saying, I would Stileana because that net rating swing is absolutely nuts and they can't really win games without him, right, Whereas I think, and this is obviously just a theory because Lebron has a misstime, I think the Lakers would be okay without Lebron. They wouldn't be amazing without him, but I think they'd still be a solid team. Whereas Philly looks almost lost when it isn't on the floor. Well, I I do disagree with you in the sense that

I do. I think Philly's roster is extremely talented. I think Tobias Harris, as the third best player on the Sixers, is a much better player than the third best player on the Lakers, which is Dennis Shrewder. Tobias is having an amazing season. By the way, He's basically been a Chris Middleton. So imagine if Chris Middleton was the third best player on his team. Uh. In addition to that, like, you know, guys like guys like Seth Curry are are are playing extremely well this season, you know, uh uh

Tyrese Max, He's having a really good see season. The Shake Milton has actually been playing really well. He killed the Lakers the other night. The team has a lot of talent. I think I think that the differences is Lebron has been so available that we haven't had a chance to see how the Lakers look when he doesn't play.

And for the record, there was this really weird stat that I kept, you know, beating the drum with when when when I was talking about having Schroeder in the starting lineup, the Lakers are killing teams when Lebron, a D, and Schroeder on the floor. They're killing teams when Lebron and a D are on the floor. They're killing teams.

When Lebron and Schroeder are on the floor. They're barely positive when it's just Lebron and when it's a D and Schroeder, they're still negative in just the minutes that a D and Schroeder are on the floor. So there's some weird stuff going on there where. And it was like this last year too, And honestly, I think it just goes to the stuff you and I talked about

all the time about like primary initiators. I just think that Anthony Davis is a very very very very very good basketball player, but he's like a Lamborghini without a key fob, Like somebody's got to bring the key fob to get him going, you know what I mean. Yep, I don't disagree with any of that. I have Philly winning the East. I still have Philly winning the East. So I do agree with the overall talent, but it just, for whatever reason, it hasn't worked without and be there's

a reason they only have one win without it. Right, as good as Tobias has been, if he all of a sudden has to be your second best guy, and that second best guys to Ben Simmons, who has a an absurd aversion to scoring. At this point, I think it looks he hasn't been on offense. He's been bad. Sure,

he's regrets there. It's one of those things where the skill hasn't improved, and now he kind of feels the pressure of that skill not improving because he hears the chatter and he's so afraid to try and even score around the rim sometimes at this point that it doesn't make sense because he should be. He should still be regardless of what the shooting looks like. He should still be one of the best room attackers in the game.

And that's like a night to night thing. At this point, you don't know what Ben Simmons you're gonna get in terms of attacking him. So I haven't beat especially if he continues to play games. He's been absolutely incredible. Um, I feel like an absolute idiot for not having him in my top ten before the season started, because he's easily he's a lot better now than he was. Like he is. He he put up monster numbers in the first round playoff series, but he was bad for the

most part. He didn't play anywhere near as well on defense as he usually does, and he was about his like he was facing double teams almost time down the floor, almost every time down the floor, and I think he only averaged one assist per game in that series. So like he just he wasn't very very good. And now as far as m beat as a player, you know, I was really I've watched him quite a few times

over the last couple of weeks. He's still the one downside with him and the one thing that makes me nervous not for him, not for a Brooklyn series, but more like if he ends up in some dog fight with Boston or Miami, or if he ends up in the finals against the Lakers. He still struggles with the double team in terms of making complicated reads. He can

make simple reads against defenses that make catastrophic mistakes. So for instance, you know, uh, a poorly spaced on defense not in a good shell drill leading into a double team where a guy is just completely wide open under the basket or completely wide open on the wing. He

can make that kind of read. But he's struggling with the same reads that Anthony Davis had been struggling with, although he's been getting a little better this year, where it's like embracing the double team, taking it a little bit further into the double team deliberately to really get the defense off balance, to make the more complicated reads that the only like that you can only find against

the really good defenses. Like when you're playing a really good defense, you're not gonna get the butt naked guy under the basket or in the corner. You're you're gonna have to make the difficult, complicated read to get a slightly contested shot. But that in a playoff series is a high quality shot, if that makes sense. Absolutely, And I think handling double teams is an experienced thing. The more you do it, the better you're gonna get at it.

As long as you can process the game quickly enough. Uh. One of the best things that coach ever told me was to play slow in a crowd. Right. The tendency for a lot of guys is when they get double team, they speed up and they hurry and they instantly try to find something because they're nervous about getting double team. What Embide needs to learn how to do is when that double comes, like you're saying, invite it, embrace it. He's taller than almost anybody who's coming to double him.

Embrace that double team, play patient, play strong, and then find your kickouts. What I think they can do is they have done is they put some more shooting around him. Obviously with Curry and Danny Green hasn't been good this year, but at least he's a theoretical shooter and so Bias is shooting the eyes out of it. He's shooting incredible this year. I think what they need to do is is have more guys who can make that secondary read. Right like Simmons can make the secondary read if MPD

hits him out of a double team. They need to find another guy kind of in that Simmons mold than like a Draymond Green roll mold or an Andrea Gudala mold where they can make that second and third read. If embides only gonna make the simple one, you've gotta have the guy that can make that second or third

read to find the open shooter, find a layup. So that would be the type of guy if I'm them that I'm looking for near a trade denline at a buy out, some of you can make those secondary passing reads that will amplify their offense, because right now I want to say they're eleventh or twelfth and offensive rating, which is good, but that might be a problem come playoff time. Um So I'd be looking for somebody like

that over the trade deadline. Yeah, I agree with you, And for the record, a lot of those offensive metrics are thrown off by the fact that in bid has been out so much. Um. But yeah, it's funny you brought up that thing when you were calling. When you were coaching. I remember my coach at Arizona Christian University

did what was called the tight space passing drill. And I'm not sure if you've ever seen this, but basically, you go stand on the h in the corner and you you could kind of make a theoretical box that stretches from the from the block over to the out of bounds line, so it's it's roughly like ten ft wide by like fifteen feet long, so it's a little it's a small box. And then you play. You put

three three offense of players and two defensive players. But then you encourage the defensive players to be physical and to foul, and basically the ideas you can't dribble, but you have two complete passes within the circle, but there's

always an open man. But you're getting absolutely hounded because you can't dribble, and the defensive players just up in your grill and being extremely physical, and it forces you to be really strong, clear space with your elbows to get to get to uh bounce pass and you almost always have to throw a pass fake to get the one guy to jolt to the other guys that the

third player is open. And UH, it was funny because like if you actually embraced the physicality and embraced the past baking and embraced the the guy who's all over you, it was it was an easy drill to succeed in. But if you got sloppy, it was turnover city, even though you have only had two defenders involved. And I think that's that that's kind of the way I look at it with Emdeed and uh with Anthony Davis as well.

It's just really just kind of embracing the fact that the defense is into your hands and and being patient

with it. But yeah, I was kind of disappointed late fourth quarter of that Lakers Philly game when uh, when the Lakers actually kind of shifted their defense to have Anthony Davis straight up on Embiid and then they had Dennis Schroeder kind of get into like a uh in a dig position where he's kind of lunging in at the ball on him beat and then they had KCP uh kind of split the difference between the two shooters.

And it's one of those plays where if embiad was strong with the ball and took one dribble into the paint, he would force Dennis to commit, which would force KCP to make a decision. But instead, like he was hesitant and he and he and he was just immediately would kind of like dribble away from where the dig was coming from so he could get to his jump shot.

And that to me is like looking solely for your shot in that situation instead of understanding that the defense is compromising itself to try to stop you and that there's some sort of opening there. And he's probably not taking that dribble into the paint because he doesn't feel confident in as a to really read the double team and makes me play quickly out of it and strongly. But it's funny you mentioned the tight space passing droll.

We actually did that same drill at Fresno City. Um, same the coach that told me, you know, play slow in a crowd, play low and slow in a crowd. That, yeah, I spent a lot of days in the tight space passing drill. My uh what my college roommate at Fresno City, his dad was actually the creator of that drill. Mike Dunlap coach at Metro State. Yeah, yep, coach Metro State coach Charlotte bobcats Um coach A l M you for

a little bit. He's been all over. He was then interim coach at at You have A Arizona when who was it that guy, Mike Dunlap. Mike Dunlap was an interim coach at the UV. I'm trying to remember because there were two interim coaches between between lud Olsen and Sean Miller, and it was Dunlap and then there was one other guy and I can't remember who it was. That's crazy, that's funny though. But yeah, it's the drill.

The drill was was genius and it's it's it's it's an example of just uh, the like when you're a college when you're a player, you don't really understand. You're like, can we just play some five on five? Like what are we doing here? But stupid stuff like that forces you to simplify what you're working on down to a specific skill, which in this case was like being strong with the ball, and you could tell like the The big part of it too, is like it's okay to

risk a turnover to potentially develop an assist. You know, like, for instance, if you just if you get double teams and you just kick it out one passive way to the entry pass guy and then he lunges back out, you didn't risk a turnover, but you also didn't make the defense pay. You basically just forced the play to reset. Now, if you take an aggressive dribble into the double team and then drop it off under the basket, there's a chance that might get tipped out of bounds. There's a

chance you might miss the guy. There's a chance you might mishandle the ball. If you make a more aggressive play to a kick out three, same thing, but if you complete the pass, it's a wide open layup or a wide open three. So you're it's a risk reward factor there, And just and Anthony Davis just starting to embrace that a little bit. He had two turnovers in the first half last night against Atlanta where he was aggressively trying to make a play. I just would like

to see em bead make that type of play. That's the next step for him. That's the kind of thing that's going to turn him into a player that can really become a guy who goes toe to toe with you know, a Lebron or a kauai and or Kevin Durant a playoff series and come out on top. Is when they when they do start to figure out how to double team in game five or six of a playoff series. How is he going to to make teams pay for that and for what it's worth. I think

he's close. He's he's twenty six. Most guys really don't hit their Prome eight. I think he has not only the ability, but the kind of the mental processing of the game capacity to actually become that guy. I mean, he's been showing passing flashes since his time at Kansas when he would barely even knew how to play the game. He has pretty tremendous feel for a guy in his eyes. If I had to bet on it, I would bet

on him figuring that stuff out, probably sooner rather than later. Hm. I agree with you and uh And I think it was important to go over that because, like and Bead is making leap, He's going from guy in that six to fifteen range of you know, superstars that's constantly fluctuating up and down based on how they're playing week to week. You know, like Damian Lillard, Like one week you think he's the seventh best player in the world, and the

next week you think he's the thirteenth. And the same thing goes for you know, Yokich, Sometimes the same thing goes for embiid and and uh, both Yokich and Embid this season appear to be making that leap into that like consistent top five level performer and uh, this is where you get a nipicky with them, because you know, those little things, little details like we talked about about how he handles the double team and and uh what he does with the double team rather than just making

the safe play. Those are the kinds of things that separate you from being the fourth best player in the world and the eighth best player in the world. Like, those little details make a huge difference. Who did you who'd you have at number three on your list? I would have Yokich um and I could even see the

case for Yoki top two. He has been he to me, the only guys offensively if I'm running an entire offense and I'm taking over him or Lebron and staff, right, and that is not People are gonna get mad at me because they're gonna think it's Kevin Durrance slander. It's not. Duran is clearly better at him than him at the skill of scoring. But Yokich is probably already the best over six ten, six eleven passer and the history of basketball. He's a point guard, but he's just six eleven anyways pounds.

He's banana is good. Like every time I watched the guy. It's despite the fact that they can't guard anybody, they are one of the most fun basketball teams I've ever watched, simply because of he makes everything go for them. They really don't have like another even top thirty or top forty player on that roster, and then they sacrifice defensive summer for whatever reason. They got rid of their two best wing defenders, and somehow they're still figuring it out

because he's that special. Offensively, he is read his staff because I want to hear me, the dude is absolutely nuts. Well. First of all, Jeremy Grant has been so so good this year. That's got to be frustrating if you're done very especially if the intel that they offered him the same contract is true, then that's really frustrating. So I had yokis fourth for the record, but I'm gonna read

his stats before we go back and forth. So Yoki was twenty seven twelve and nine per thirty six fifty seven percent from the field, thirty eight percent from three percent from the line. The Nuggets are plus seven point one when he's on the floor and plus zero point five when he's off the floor. They they have had a rough season. I think they're twelve and eight, um, but they're quietly up to the sixth best record in

the league right now. Um uh. And they are eleven and four in their last fifteen games because they started one in four and uh, they're in that fifteen game stretch their ninth and defense, which is pretty good, especially considering Yokich has been better. I think he's leading all centers and steals, which is awesome. Um uh. And then he's fourth and for the Nuggets at the fourth best

offensive rating over the last fifteen games. So the Nuggets are playing significantly better their top ten in both offense and defense. Uh. Yoki's numbers have been amazing. I agree with you that he's the candidate on this list that is your bona fide number one, without a without a number two, that's near his level. If you go through every other guy that we're going to talk about today, they're playing alongside someone who's considered that type of elite. But a big part of that has to do with

how poorly uh Jamal Murray has been playing. Um And he he's had his moments, He's hit a couple of big shots this year. He just hasn't been bubble Jamal. But I am maintaining that I want to wait, you know till right around this point in the season to start closely judging some of these teams that made it into the late rounds of the playoffs. I'm with you there, um I. It was a pretty harsh Jamal critic even

during the bubble, or not I shouldn't say critic. I was just skeptical of how real those performances were in the bubble. And I think we're at least seeing that that's probably not the guy he's gonna be, because, like I've said before, if he actually was that guy, he'd be the greatest point guard in NBA history because he was scoring thirty points a game on splits. So the potential is there with Murray, he just it's it's always been the consistency with him. I think the consistency of

routine in the bubble really helped him. Right, he was able to do the same thing every day. He's in the same gym, a guy like him who was a super rhythm player, I think that really helped him. Um, But yeah, I don't have enough superlatives to describe Yoki. I think he's been but I have him third for

a reason. He's been better than everybody not named Lebron or Embiid, and I if his defense wasn't what it was or what it is relative to Lebron and Embid, who are to have probably the best defensive players in the league when they want to be, and they both have wanted to be this year, I would have him probably number one. But I think that there's a big enough gap in the defense, especially if you're comparing Embi

and Yokich. Were embiads know a defensive Player of the Year candidate that I think you have to put both of those guys over him for now. But if if they keep playing better, and if you said they've been like tenth and defensive rating over the past through the

last fifteen games, yeah, there you go. So if if they can maintain that and then the offense is what it is, which is top three offense basically, then I think he's going to continue to build a really strong case, especially if they volt up to third or fourth of the West, which I think is distinctly possible. The West is an absolute dog fight this year. I was looking at the standings last night and I still think like thirteen of the fifteen teams have a chance to make

the playoffs. The only ones that I say don't are Minnesota and probably New Orleans. Those are the only two that I would totally count out at this point. There's obviously some teams that are probably on the outside looking in, but those two are the only ones that I would eliminate right now and say they probably have no chance of making the playoffs. The fourth best team in the league or the fifth best team in the league right now is Denver and Milwaukee tied for fifth at twelve

and eight. So there's only four teams that have fewer than eight losses right now. So I and even all four of those are all bump like jumbled up right around that sixteen and five fifteen and five sixteen and six right around that line. Um, but I agree with you that. So the reason why I had Kauai third instead of of Yokich is flat out because of the the team's success. So Kauai uh for starters. Kauai has been averaging twenty seven six and six per thirty six.

He's shooting from the field from three and nine two percent from the line, so like well above like a healthy season. The Clippers are plus sixteen point two when he's on the floor and minus two point nine when he's off the floor. The only two reasons I have him below Lebron and Embiid are first of all, defensively, he's taken a slip. The Clippers have been outside of

the top ten all season. I believe they're twelveth right now. Um, they haven't defended nearly as well as you would expect them to for the amount of talent that they have. The two guys in front of him on this list, for both of us and beating Lebron, have both taken the defensive end way more personally this year and have attacked the season more on that end. Uh. The other

thing to me was the offensive workload. So, you know, Lebron's offensive workload is less than it was last year, for sure, but his offensive workload is still super high, especially when you factor in the fact that Anthony Davis has basically like like put his car in neutral to start this season. So but but seriously though, like he you know, look, this should be a year where Lebron's coasting more offensively, but he but he's had to take

on that crazy, you know, uh, intensive offensive role. And then the same goes for Joe LMB. Like his usage rate is up over thirty two. He's one of the Uh. Almost every possession runs through him in some way, shape or form, even when he ends up giving the ball up out of double teams. A lot of guys are creating offense off of the attention he gets. Kauai may or may not be the best player on his team right now because of how good Paul George has been.

And uh, we're all splitting hairs between these guys. I'm not trying to say that there's some massive gap between Kauai and the top guys, but he has a case to be up there, and the reason why I have him third is because his defensive slippage and because of his much smaller offensive workload playing alongside Paul George. What's the case for him over your kitch? Then team success?

They have the best record purely sex Yeah, yeah, so the Clippers literally have the best record in the league right now, and and Denver's twelve and eight, So to me, that would be the bona fide m v p k's best player on the best team. Fair enough from there, Yeah, I mean I just from that standpoint, I can't argue with it, obviously. I just think Kauai was pretty rough to start the season. Offensively, He's obviously been tremendous since he's shooting like fifty from the floor since the first

five or so games. Um, So it's that's obviously a lesser portion portion of the season than what he's done since. But he also hasn't been as available at yokish or um Lebron. So yeah, I mean, like you said, we're splitting hairs here. Um I would personally go yokich then Kauai, then Kauai and then but I see the argument from the other side too. Yeah, and like the there's a lot to be said about how the Clippers just look more calm this year. Um. They they are making better decisions.

The Nicholas Patum and Sergebaka signings have undeniably raised their offensive i Q. I don't think enough. So they've raised their their offensive i Q in terms of making plays in close out situations. So for instance, like you know Betumb catching the ball in the corner, knocking down open shots, are attacking that close out and then a Baka on the short roll and in in post up situations higher

i Q. But those are not primary initiations. All of their primary initiations are still centered around Kawai and Paul George. They've done good this year, with exception of a handful of bad games, which no team is of witted. However that I don't see the core playoff problem which is inferior primary initiations. Uh. I don't see that problem as having been fixed. Uh. They're definitely better than last year. Um. Like I said, I didn't say anything about the Tomb signing,

but I had. I am a big believer in in like relatively young veterans, so guys who are in their early thirties who have been stuck on bad teams suddenly being good. Like think of Trevor Reason when he went to Houston as an example. Uh, Like, these these guys they're just they're they're playing alongside crap perimeter initiators and

they're on and they're not motivated. And now they get put in a situation where they're making plays and closeout situations alongside some of the best players in the league, and there they have something to play for. It was to me it was predictable that a guy like the Tune would break out. Kent Baysmore was terrible in Atlanta. This year, he looks great with Golden State. I mean that that the argument. Yeah, now he's next to Steph and to a lesser extent, Draymond, but mostly Steph, and

he's shooting over from three. He looks really good and basically all of his minutes. He gets a little bit out of control sometimes, but at the end of the day he's a role player. But but Tombs the same thing. The Tombs looked really good, and I mean people thought his career might have been over that last year in Charlotte, but he just wasn't motivated funny enough, he probably would have had really a lot of fun playing with that team this year because the Hornets are super, super fun team.

I've enjoyed watching them almost more than anybody this year. LaMelo is an absolute basketball savant. I can't say it enough. I I don't want to go too deep into it because Warriors fans are gonna get mad at me for keep talking about LaMelo instead of wise Man. But that dude is he has a chance to be an m VP candidate if the scoring ever comes around just at

like twenty points per game. Well, and I have a problem with the comments from the head coach with his name Barrego when he was like saying like, oh, I can't have a guy in my starting lineup that's having all these turnovers. And where I would disagree with that is like like people are thinking too much about what the assist stat means as opposed to the difference between

the specific types of assists. So like, like we were talking about earlier out of the post, when you make an aggressive play, an aggressive play has a has a much different risk to reward than a simple swing around the perimeter or or different types of assists plays, like you know, like uh, James Harden, just like throwing swing passes around the court that are leading to a guy taking a twenty six ft three, and he's doing that forty times a game and the guy makes seven of them.

So there's seven assists on his total in in plays that aren't necessarily like you know, super high quality shot attempts. That's not the same to me as LaMelo ball making a super aggressive pass that, if completed, leads to a dunk, you know what I mean? Like that to me is

a huge difference. And to Brego's point, it's like you've got to think of you know, his assist to turnover ratio is different than an assist to turnover ratio for a James Harden type of guy, because uh LaMelo is a super aggressive passer and most of his assists are literally for dunks. So like, if you have six assists and four turnovers, that that it's as good as getting six offense, and in his particular role, because he's just

getting dunks. Like there, he's literally creating like offensive plays with his assists. He's averaging six point one assist in two and a half turnovers the game. Right now, his sister turnover his assist ratio is fine, especially for a nineteen year old rookie who really isn't physically developed yet. He's getting by on guile and skill like he's not overpowering anybody. Everything he's doing is a means of his basketball i Q. And then obviously his skill level, which

is super super high. I'm not sure if I've ever seen, at least in my lifetime, a nineteen year old who's more just gifted with the basketball in his hands right, every pass, every dribble. He he can shoot from a bunch of different platforms, even though the shots kind of funky. Um, he's got a chance to be super super special. Man,

that that kid is unbelievable. Well, and Tommy and before the show, we were talking about like coaching and like in the culture that surrounds coaching, particularly with the older guys. So Tommy went to go coach at what school was it again, Metro State in Denver Division two school. So he went to go coach to the division school to school in Denver, and he was in the business for a little while and then he gave up on it. And I have friends of mine that I played with

in college that have gone to try to coach. I have a coach, a friend of mine that was an assistant when I was in Utah who frequently reaches out to me and just kind of vents about the industry. And it's hard. It's really really hard because these these guys, these guys that the head coach position is naturally such a stubborn position because guys are so like stuck in

their ways. And you know, I, I can just imagine that that Brego, he's looking at the situation and for whatever reason, he doesn't particularly like playing LaMelo, probably because he prefers playing a more traditional guard and uh, he's probably under some pressure from the GM and the owner to play LaMelo. And it's kind of how he's hoping with it, because I cannot, for the life of me, think of a good reason for him to say what he did about LaMelo. That just seemed like so foolish

to me and aggressive and weird. It was a strange comment, especially for a rookie who's been pretty spectacular so far this year. But to Barrego's credit, I think Davante Graham has shown tremendous development under him. Even though Graham has struggled a little bit this year. Malik last year though, yeah, yeah, he's awesome last year in Barrego's first year, Malik Monk, it looks like a different player this year. Um, I've been waiting on that forever. I've always been a Leiku

Monk fan. And then I mean, he was critical of LaMelo, but LaMelo is look great. I think he's doing a great job of putting LaMelo in spots where you can succeed. So yeah, I think it might have been a contact or at a comment that got taken a little bit out of context, But yeah, it was weird either way. I don't I don't see what the point of it was,

especially when he's been as good as he has. And one of my biggest pet peeves and I was talking to you about this is like commit to commit to an era, you know, commit to a timeline, and like, if your goal is to have Melo Ball be your point of the future, having him come off the bench and play in like a secondary or tertiary role doesn't make any sense to me. Like, unless you think you can win the championship this year, which I don't think they can, you've got to You've got to at least

develop him like you you can. He's he's such a willing passer. He moves, he's he's a there's he's like an initiating passer instead of like a reactionary passer, meaning like he's not He's not that guy that's going to bring the ball to the floor, dribble seventeen times and when the defense collapses on him, he's gonna throw a pass. He's the guy who, like actively the minute he catches the ball is looking for openings and looking to push the ball at the floor. That that guy naturally will

fit with Gordon Hayward. That guy naturally will fit with Miles Bridges and these other offensive players on the team. So I I would start him, but I we've gotten off the beating path a little bit. But anyway, at the bottom line, though, so you I had I had Lebron over em beat you had and beat over Lebron. I had Kauai over Yokich, you had Yokis. Did you have Kauai fourth? Yeah, I would have Kauai four. Just like all the stuff you pointed to. He's been absolutely

tremendous his last twelve or so games. I want to say it was those first five that were really bad, and he's played seventeen totals of the last twelve games. He's been incredibly good. Um, yeah, he's just he's just a tremendous player. He is awesome. Man. I complained about him time to time because the foel hunting does get a little bit annoying. But he's incredible. If he keeps up these percentages, he's gonna have one of the better

plus point per games offensive season offensive seasons ever. So he's been incredible and and uh I actually joked about this with with uh Samus Fandar a couple of weeks ago. But like him, him and Paul George having great seasons was the most predictable thing ever. I really really do believe that when guys are embarrassed, it brings the best

out of him. I frequently talked about how I think how I think Lebron that two thousand and eleven meltdown was like the best thing that ever happened to him because it made him embrace elements of his game that he never embraced before, because he leaned so heavily on his athleticism, and it made him get to the point where he was talented enough to dominate the next the

next decade. He doesn't dominate the next decade if he wins in two thousand eleven, in my opinion, And so from that standpoint, like I I, it was, it was predictable to me that, you know, Kauai and Paul George had a really really embarrassing, like nightmare of an exit, and you don't just go home and sit on your couch after that. It eats at you and it brings something special out of you. And I don't think it's a I don't think it's a shock to me that

they're playing well. That said, like I said, you know, I think you and I both agree that there they still lack just a little bit of a high i Q ball handler to help them manage like tight moments in a playoff series when isolation shots aren't going. I'd still try to kind of swing for the fences with a Lowry move, and they have the contracts to make it work. It would be a little bit complicated, or

they can make it a three team deal. I would try to get lowery, especially because we know the Lowry and Kauai thing works, like they literally want a championship together. I think it'd be a very easy move. Lowry's on the last year of his contract. Toronto might be looking to tank in one way or another. They don't seem like they're ready to win in any shape or fashion. Loberry doesn't fit their timeline at all, especially with a

lot of the young guys they have. I would try to if I'm the Clippers, I'm doing almost everything I can to get Lowry at the deadline because I think if they get him now, I would actually be a lot more I'm sure of who's coming out of the Western Conference because right now I still have the Lakers by a healthy margin. I don't see any team in the West taking them no more than six games, and I think even that might be being a little bit generous. But if the Clippers get Lowry, I think that would

be an absolute dog fight of a series. I'm worried about them having the assets to give them up. Like I and in Toronto, fans are extremely attached to Kyle Lowry. Um I I tweeted out like a fake trade the other day with like Kyrie for for Lowry and o g and and Obi, which I thought would make both teams better. And there were a lot of there were a lot of Toronto fans that were like, hell no, man, like, we're not giving up Lowry. We'd rather have Lowry than Kyrie,

which is sanity obviously. I mean Kyrie, uh google, Lowry maybe a better overall basketball player manufactor in his leadership and availability and all those things, but there's a ceiling to what you could do with Lowry, and and Kyrie had an ability to raise that ceiling and uh I, but like Toronto fans wouldn't have it. So for whatever reason, they don't seem to be open to that idea. Lowry

is their guy. Man. He went through all the playoff failures with him, he stuck with him, and then he brought him a championship, you know, and he was tremendous in those finals. His game six um to win those twenty nineteen finals, I think is probably one of the more underrated finals performances really ever by like a second star. He was just absurdly good in that game. He he came out and he absolutely set the Tony, scored like twelve in that first quarter and was just so steady

that entire series. Really, and that's a guy who really had some massive playoff failures like at some point in his playoff career was like walking off the floor because he couldn't handle the pressure of the situation. And it was I'll never forget that. That was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in an NBA game. And then he totally people love an underdog story man. Nobody expected that from Kyle Lowry. And then he turned in he was the second best player on the title team.

So I I totally get the attachment. So I'm gonna give my number five because it's something that I think is I feel pretty passionately about after digging into the numbers, and I'm pretty sure you probably disagree with me, but we'll see what you end up thinking. So, uh, I'm a big believer in rewarding team success success And when you look at the teams at the top of the league. The Utah Jazz right now are a half game out

of first place. UM, And when you really dig into the numbers of that team, you're you know, your your initial instinct, you're like, casual perspective may tell you, oh, like it's Donovan Mitchell, he's the best player on the team. UM, But I think Mike Connolly is the is my pick for number five on the m v P ballot right now, for a couple of reasons for starters. When I read you some of these numbers, you're literally going to be blown away. So first of all, he's averaging twenty five

and seven per thirty six minutes. That's pretty good. It it's not quite like what a steph in two thousand fifteen type of low statistical output m v P type of season was, but it's pretty damn good. Uh. From the field, from three from the line, the h he has the second highest usage right in their starting lineup, so for all of their heavy minutes guys, he's second in their usage, right behind Donovan Mitchell. The Jazz are plus eighteen point two per one hundred possessions when he's

on the floor. They are minus ten point four when he is off the floor, So there's literally a twenty eight point swing between when he's on the floor and when he's off the floor. He's got the best defensive rating of all of their rotation players at nine point six.

He's probably not the best defender on the team, but he's doing really well in his minutes um and if when you and this kind of goes with what when you talk to Jazz fans, If you talk to Jazz fans about what they've liked from Utah this year, they will tell you that Mike Conley has been the steadying presence for them, the most consistent player on the team.

So my my, my question for you is does being a twenty point guy per thirty six minutes who has these dramatically amazing uh net rating effect and is the second best usage on the team for a team that's a half game out of best record in the league, is that enough to put you in the m v P conversation in your opinion? And if that's what you, put some other somebody else on the Jazz in there because I feel like somebody on the Jazz needs to be in there. Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong, Um,

somebody should be in there. They have been tremendous this year. It feels like more of a team thing where they're just like I know, as of a couple of games ago when they absolutely walloped Warriors by like forty points and it was like twenty in the first quarter. They are they are shooting threes at a clip and making threes at a clip that has literally never been seen,

so it feels like a team thing. But what I would say is there probably is kind of a dearth of a fifth candidate there, unless you want to say Kevin Durant. Just based on pure statistical output, um, there obviously are some team issues there that I well, while you can blame him for some of the defensive struggles, a lot of that is in him. It's roster construction and how broken has decided to go about their business, which isn't entirely on him, So maybe some of it is.

But he has been the worst defense, you know. I I know that. I know that, But he's also averaging thirty points a game on like fifty two eighty something shooting like he is having. If this maintains, it might be like the best dirty point per game season ever. Like at some point you have to award that just from a pure statistical output standpoint, And I get it. I know that the worst defense ever. I understand that that we talked, but we we knew that was going

to be a thing. Anybody with a working brain knew that was going to be a thing. We knew they were going to be terrible on defense. But while he could be better, I don't think most of that is on him. I think it's Brokelyn not having any type of defensive personnel to stop NBA level offenses. So it's but so Kevin Durant's case would be like you're you're talking like Russ two thousand seventeen case, like just monster monster numbers. But the differences is he's with James Harden

and Kyrie Irving. I think you have a really hard time convincing people that you know, having like moderate to below average because they they're they're like plus one or plus two points per one hundred possessions with this since the hard and Harden trade, they've been not bad because they've they've won games on the fact that they've played

some bad teams. But like they've they've they've been underwhelming with a whole lot of talent, and at a certain point, like I think that might disqualify you from this conversation. I mean, what do you think entirely fair? But Duran was doing the same thing before the Harden trade. He was putting up the same type of numbers, So I don't think there has been no tangible difference in his performance at all. I see what you're saying because the defense is so bad that you almost can't reward it.

But yeah, I just think there's not really a fifth candidate right now. That would be my take. Let me ask you this. If I swapped Anthony Davis and Kevin Durant, so it was Kyrie Irving, James Harden and Anthony Davis, would the Brooklyn Nets be a better team? Yes, and simple and so and so my my concern is, like what I've said to you a half dozen times since you and I have started doing podcasts together. You know, there is an easy fix to the Brooklyn Nets problem.

It's their mobile seven footer with arms that literally go forever embracing the defensive end of the ball. That that's literally the difference between them being this laughing stock of a team that's trying to outscore teams and then and then being the team that can win the NBA Championship. That's the difference. And like, and to me, like this is the exact same reason why before the season, you know, you and I had Kevin Durant lower on our lists,

you know, even factoring in health. And I think it's just like, you know, if if if we all predicted you know, definitively that this team would struggle to uh like a historical extent on the defensive end of the ball. That to me is because we know Katie wants no

parts of that type of defensive workload. And to me, that that that says everything you need to know, because like I told you, we are and like you said, we would expect Anthony Davis to erase a whole lot of their mistakes and to make that team into something worth you know, something that could be potentially dangerous. And to me, that says that, To me, that defines you know, a lot of the Kevin Durant experiences, like he is literally capable of fixing everything wrong with this team, and

I just don't think he wants to fair. But in theory, I think we would want a d to do that. But we've seen in New Orleans that if the defensive personnel is bad, he hasn't really lifted the floor of a bad defensive team like a lot of those years in New Orleans. And maybe it was a motivation factor. He didn't want to play hard because his team sucked, but they would have like a defensive rating in the

twenties even when he was on the floor. So the defensive problems in Brokelyn go much farther than Kevin Durant. He is a problem, right, but I think they are so bad they don't have They have basically one guy who can guard the ball in the perimeter in Bruce Brown. Kyrie doesn't want to, James Harden doesn't want to. Joe Harris can't. What is Katie is supposed to do? He can't erase every single problem at the rim. Right, you can only do so much if you can't get stops

a point of attack. We've seen that time and time again. Like I think point of attack defense is overrated to do a certain extent when people look at awards ballots and awarding guys like maybe in Avery Bradley. But at the at the same time, if you don't have that, you have no chance getting stops. Right, If you can't go to the point of attack, you will not get stops period. And the story it doesn't matter who's on the back side of the defense, right. We saw that

last year. The Warriors were an awful team last year, but they couldn't get stopped to the point of attack, and it didn't matter that Draymond Dream was back there because he was covering so many mistakes that they were still bottom five and defensive rating. So I maybe if Katie was more motivated, they'd be twenty second in defense instead of all time bad. Might be enough to make

them a contender. And that's my point, is like, and for the record, like Lebron got Kyrie to defend, that stuff goes from the top down, you know, Like there's no doubt in my mind that if Kevin Durant truly embraced what that meant to be the anchor of their defense vocally and with what he does with his body, he could make James harden And and Kyrie Irving in them at least defend at that that number twenty in the league type of level. Literally, if they could get there,

they could be dangerous. Right now, they're not dangerous, like I think the Clippers are going to have their way with them tonight. Lou Williams might have fifty because their their backcourt is so poorous defensively like that, they're gonna have a whole lot of trouble uh with any decent team right now because of how bad they are, And that to me could be fixed by Kevin Durrett all I'm saying, look, and I'm not saying it's all his fault.

I agree with you. But we talked about earlier when we were talking about with embeed being nitpicky when you want to be considered one of the best players in the league, these are the kinds of things we're gonna be nitpicky about. You know, Lebron is considered the best player in the world by most people right now. I don't think it's a coincidence that he started defending again last year when he wasn't defending as much, there were a lot of people out there saying Lebron is not

the best two way player in the league anymore. Kauai might be better than him. Now, this kind of stuff is the nitpicky stuff that differentiates between the top players in the league. And all I'm saying is, I've got people in my mentions every day telling me Katie's better than Lebron. I've got the usual suspects on Twitter preaching

about it every day. But for some reason, he's not held to the same standard that Honest has held to, that Lebron has held to, that Joel Embiide has held to because he's so pretty when with what he's doing off the dribble, and dude, like, I love it too. As a basketball fan. When I go to the court, I'm practicing what Katie does, not what Lebron does. That's

not the same as being a better basketball player. And and that's the that's the thing that I wish that we could delineate here because like, like it, literally it's not his fault. But if I dropped Lebron into that scenario, he's trying to fix the defensive culture on that team, and I'm not sure that Kevin Durant is. Are we sure Lebron is trying to do that? We've seen him, I think. I think the last two years in Cleveland

tell you that he's trying to do that. Okay, so two out of the past fifteen years he had bad defensive seasons and you're gonna to define his career like that. I'm not defining his career like that. What I'm saying is, as he's gotten older and he has less energy for crap, and he has bad defensive personnel, he hasn't tried on that end. When he got l A tried again because they actually had good defensive personnel. That's what Kevin Durant is a smart enough guy to realize, we don't have

anybody that can guard. We don't have anybody that can I think a lot of guys on that Laker team were considered bad defenders before Lebron got there with a d uh like Avery Bradley was considered completely washed. Rondo was considered washed. A lot of these guys were. Cukuzma was a god awful defensive player, you know, Dwight Howard was considered washed. JaVale McGee like is flawed. I guess what I'm saying is is like, you know, also with Lebron,

a couple of things. First of all, when he was in those those bad defensive seasons, one of the important details is I truly think Lebron thought he couldn't win. And I think that I think that he and this is a flaw in his game for the record, I think he embraced the fact that he couldn't win, and so he wanted to put unbelievably monster offensive numbers up and crazy highlights to try to like maintain some like mystique about how good he is. Because he knew he

was gonna lose to the Warriors. I honestly think that's the way it was. I don't think it's a coincidence that his efficiency was like super high those two seasons that he didn't defend. It's like the Lakers are the number one defense in the league right now, but they're like seventh in offense. It's because defense is tiring and

it wears you out. That it's extremely rare to see a team who's like the number one defense and the number one offense, because teams that are lacks daisical on that end inevitably score million points because they got legs on the other end. You know what I mean, I

hear you. I just don't I think without a good fifth candidate, and and you know what I I do appreciate you give him calmly some props because he has been amazing this year, especially relative to last year when people were like, oh man, this dude might be washed. What a terrible trade for Utah, And now it looks like, you know what, they might have made the right decision. And I think Memphis is happy with the decision too.

So I think both parties ended up winning. Um, so it I think it is nice to give calmly a not especially a guy who has never made an All Star Game, who has probably been deserving and would have made some of you was in the East at some point in his career. But I just Durant has been so good offensively, like indescribably good offensively, literally better than ever coming off in Achilles. So I can't not reward

that he's been that good offensively. Like if he had just been even a little bit worse offensively, he was just having one of his normal offensive seasons like six five and five on shooting thirty five percent from three percent from the line, I wouldn't have him there. But he's been so good offensively that you can't deny it. Brooklyn's problems don't start with the rent. They start with the roster construction, Like it's it's not his fault. They

constructed the roster in that way. And maybe, I mean, maybe some of the Harden trade is his fault, but his on court play has been enough to at least I would vote for the guy, you know, Yeah, maybe if there's still five d at the end of the year, I probably wouldn't, But I think they're going to figure some things out. There's a history of of m v P voters punishing and guys who relax on the defensive

end and put up monster numbers. The uh, the Calves in two thousand seventeen or fifty one and thirty one, so better than the the nets are on paceful right now. I'm pretty sure I'll have to look at the standings. I can't remember, but I think the Calves are a

little bit better in the standings. And Lebron had just an unbelievable offensive season and he finished fourth in the m v P voting and so that season, and so I guess the idea is is, like you know, I would imagine over the course of the season, they'll win enough games that that he'll end up getting votes. And for the record, Mike Connolly is not going to get

a top five MVP finish. I'm just saying like, there's there's a case for him to deserve it, and it's him being the arguably the best player on on arguably the best team in the league right now in terms of the standings, because they're only half came out, and my god, those those net rating numbers are just absolutely absurd that that I'm just that step furry two fifteen sixteen levels where it's like US twenty net rating, which is like impossible almost, Yeah, it's it's insane and and

and as far as the Katie stuff goes, I'm just venting because, like I just it's it's crazy because a lot of times I get portrayed as a Katie hater, and like I literally I love Katie's game. I I I'm terrified of him every time he goes up for a shot. When I'm rooting against him. I have the utmost confidence in his ability. I just if it bothers me that he is held to like a completely different standard than his peers, like in almost every way. That's why. That's why I have him fifth. He spit on, he

spent on my list. He's not first. I wouldn't. He has no argument for any of the above, any of the top four guys. He doesn't. But I think after this pretty because A D has been pretty bad this season. Yeah no, I'm just saying purely um m v P. Yeah, just purely m VP. I don't see a good fifth candidate right, like, be honest, hasn't been Does there anybody were missing other than calmly Durant? Uh No? Because the season has been weird and hardened. Who's almost always on

these list is not Um. Let me uh really quickly before we call it a day. Let me pull up just a of rankings. We can see if there's anybody we missed. So this is just basketball reference, so these are based almost purely on stats. But Yogurts and be Kauai, Lebron Durant, Janice Uh. The weird thing with Joannice is

the defense has fallen off of a cliff. Um. He's putting up incredibly monster numbers, as is always the case, but I think that I think public confidence with him is at an all time low, and I think that's what's destroying him. Anthony Davis, I don't think has any legitimate case. I think he's only averaging like twenty two points a game. His defense has fallen off a cliff, although he's had a couple of monster defensive games. Paul

George we talked about earlier. Damian Lillard. The Blazers are only ten and nine, and then the other name on the list is Rudy Gobert. But I couldn't in my right mind vote for Rudy Gobert ever, in a million years. UM the one guy who I think might put his name in the in the race after a while. As Steph Curry, He's looked a lot. He struggled with consistency this year, and this is coming from a guy who's watched of Warriors games. So far, he has struggled to

be consistent. But the last ten games his splits are back to where they normally are. He's back attent from the field for the year forty one from three after a horrendous start from the line average points a game. If the team's success come comes, he will be in the race absolutely because the numbers are already there. It's just a matter of can they win enough games to get his name in the race, and I think I think they eventually will if they can never get healthy.

How do you feel about that team right now? Um? They are fourth in defensive ratings since Draymond Green has returned yep so in the fifth fourteen or fifteen games he's played. Their fourth in defensive rating. UM. I would feel a lot better if they had a couple more big men on the roster. UM. I would like for

them to move Uber for Alonso. I think that would be a fantastic move for actually both parties, because it seems like New Orleans doesn't want to extend Lonzo at the number he's gonna command, and Uber is an expiring contract. And I think the Warriors would love one love Alonzo. He would fit in so many ways. He fits that John Livingston, Andre Goodala play connector Great Defenders, smart high i Q player um that they crave in their system. It's still all tv D just because, like I said,

Steff hasn't been consistent enough yet. If he finds that normal level of consistency, I think they'll end up winning forty games probably, and then they'll be there'll be a team that people probably don't want to see in the playoffs unless your names starts with an l A, Right. I still feel the same about them in terms of eventual playoff ceiling. Nobody scares me besides the l A teams, just because of of whose step can be in a

playoff series, which is better than of the league. Well, I said this before, and uh to you and and I, and it's been really interesting to see this how this has gone. I saw that I saw two potential scenarios for Steph Curry this year in the Warriors. I saw two thousand nineteen Lakers or two thousand eighteen Gaves, and I thought it entirely dependent on health. UM. I thought that the difference between the two thousand nineteen Lakers making a deep playoff run and them not was health, not

just for Lebron, but for the whole team. And in two thousand eighteen, Lebron played every single game and it's and and it's been super impressive to see Steph Curry embrace that this year because I think in the past he's had the flexibility when he's a little banged up to sit out, and that's that hasn't been the case this year. And to his credit, he's embraced that. He's played every single uh minute that his team has needed him to play. And UH, for the record percent agree

with you in terms of that playoff run. I I've said on many occasions that I thought that the two thousand eighteen Calves would have beat that Rockets team. UM, just because I trust Lebron's ability to solve that defense and and for the same reason you trust Steph and a lot of these playoff matchups, I just felt like, if when push came to shove, that team would figure out a way to defend at at a high enough level to where Lebron could carry them over the top offensively.

That's the way I feel about about Steph Curry. However, I do think there are so many good teams this year that a team like Philly I think would give Golden State problems, and a team like Brooklyn would give them problems. That you know, a team like Boston would give them problems. Teams that could really really defend at a super high level and and physically wear down um

Golden State. But I in the Western Conference though, a lot of those teams are really finesse and and Steff is just gonna outfinesse you and to your point that they're defending at a high level. So yeah, I would,

I would. I would pick them. Like that's the ironic part about about playing Steff every game to try to fight for the standings is you know, if they get up there where there's somehow and that's you know, like six seed and and they have a gap between six and seven, I would asked him a little bit because as long as you can avoid those l A teams in the first round, I really think that Steph's health needs to be become a priority at some point. Absolutely, No,

I mean my feelings haven't changed that much. I thought they were really going to struggle through twenty games. They honestly have a better record than I thought they would. I thought they'd probably be under five hundred at this point of the season, but there are eleven and nine. They've stolen some wins. As I've said before, Now it's can they put together consistent performances, because some nights so

look awesome. They beat the Spurs by like thirty. They just crushed Detroit, who for their record, They've been playing teams really tough. They gave the Lakers, but they beat the Lakers a couple of games ago, like they are. Yeah, they played teams really tough, and the Words absolutely walloped them on Saturday. So they have some really impressive wins,

but they also have some terrible losses. They're just they're an inconsistent team with a lot of young guys, and I think if if they find they have so many bad center minutes at this point, their center rotation might be the worst in the entire league. And the Ubery minutes have just been absolutely killer. He's been he's having the worst season of his career by like a wide margin.

He's been a little bit better lately, but if they can just find a way to shore up some of those minutes, I think they're they're still gonna be a dangerous playoff team just because Steph Curry is Steph Curry is still one of the three best offensive players in the league and one of the greatest offensive players of all time. I'd be more scared of them than I would be of Denver if I was a Laker fan. So agree with you all right? Man? Well, um, I feel like we hit on everything that we wanted to

touch on. Um, we'll have to come up with a couple of more obscure teams that we can touch on next week to kind of keep with the theme of things. Um, But thank you to everybody who tuned in. This will be up in podcast format the entirety of it here, probably in about twenty minutes, but as usual, I appreciate you guys a support, and Tommy, I'll see you next week. Man. Sounds good, Man,