Episode 17: Harden to Brooklyn, Kyrie's sabbatical, COVID in the NBA, and more with Tommy Gunn @TGunn21

Good man? Thanks for having me on as always. Uh, this league right, hashtag this league. This is what the NBA is at this point. Um what I mean, what just happened? What we were about to literally about to go on, and then all this stuff happened. So let's scrap all of it. Let's just talk trade. Let's talk with the NBA. Light landscape looks like Now. I'm excited, man,

Holy cow. Yeah. So we I was headed into a dentists appointment and I was messaging with Tommy and I said that, uh, that we were hoping that the trade news would come down before before we went live, but that we would operate under the assumption that Philly would get him. Um, that wasn't just reported because it was reported was reported by mark Stein that they were in first place, but we were all also operating under that

assumption as a result of just common sense. When you would sit there and think about what the situations that each team presented as trade options, it made so much more sense to go after Ben Simmons if you were Houston, because Ben's because Ben Simmons has been playing so well. And there was some loose reporting from mark Stein that Ben Simmons was on the table, uh namely him and Tyrese Maxie, and that they would attempt to get a third team involved to ditch Tyrese Maxie in that trade

so that they could keep some death. But Ben Simmons was on the table, and I mean, my first impression from this, from the from the start is that clearly Philly took him off the table. That's my only take away. I don't know what you thought when you saw that. Um, I don't know if Philly took him off the table. I heard that. I saw that Houston was asking for Thyble as well, which obviously wouldn't have stopped me from

doing the deal. If if I'm philly, Um, it would have made reworking the roster harder around and being harder, but you do it either way. I mean with with

the actual with what the actual trade was. Maybe they did take him off the table because the Nets only gave up LeVert and Jared Allen basically from what I'm reading, So let me quickly read the four The Rockets get Victor Oladipo, Dante Exim Rodeons Courus, three Brooklyn first rounders, one Milwaukee first in two that's unprotected for Brooklyn first round pick swaps, and twenty seven. The Nets get James Harden, the Pacers get Harris LeVert and his second rounder, and

the Calves get Jared Allen and Torrian Prince. And there's a lot of things that I find there to be interesting because, first of all, um, I'm surprised Houston didn't want Jared Allen. Um just just as a matter of depth, I think they got absolutely bullied at the center position yesterday. And I think he's just honestly a better player than DeMarcus Cousins right now, and that would have been an interesting player to try to get out of that the olo depot thing and he's just not as good as

a player as as Ben Simmons is. So I just my my basic common sense points me in the direction that Ben Simmons was taken off the table, probably at the last minute as Houston was being a little bit unreasonable with their demands, and then Philly probably just pulled back from the table altogether, and then Brooklyn just hopped

in and got this thing done easily possible. But we might be overlooking the fact that Pertida probably wanted to duct the tax because they're getting I mean, they have fans in the arena right now, but it's like capacity or whatever it is. He probably wanted to duct the tax and Oladipo is on an expiring UM. They don't have to resign him if they don't want to. This way they can get under the tax there. He's not

worried about his money. UM. They don't still have the hard money on the books and they're not taking on however many years Simmons has left, which is like four or five, but like thirty male plus a year UM, so this might be purely a financial move UM while also getting some few a ton of future first round picks to build for the future. Right off the COVID years and you know, keep your revenue stream going and then see what happens in the future. So I mean

it could have been that too. They just didn't want all the extra years of Simmons and they wanted Oladipo's expiring contract. That's insane though, right like well like in the world like I because if there's any report at it, Pertia is looking at it as a money may organization. He doesn't care about winning games. He might all the whip services that he does, but I don't think he

actually does. He's just trying to survive COVID. Half his restaurants have gone under, like the guys in Finding hurting financially. He had to go to Trump for a loan to stay up flow like, so I think it's more financial than anything else. But that's why, I mean, that's why I shouldn't have gotten the team in the first place. The team never should have been sold to him in the first place. So it's I mean, it's a mistake by the NBA dating back two years and now we're

saying the river cousins of it. Does this guy even like basketball like that? That that's my question. Honestly because like because like he's thinking it too for like too much of a cutthroat perspective here, because like I'm I would be sitting here, like, dude, I got Ben Simmons and John Wall and I got Christian Wood and like and and p J. Tucker and I've got like that's something. That's that's something. It's a fun team. At least it's

a very fun team. Yeah, and Simmons is a really good player who if he ever decides to dedicate himself to actually learning how to shoot a basketball, he'll be a great player. So yeah, I think the more that I think about it, and I saw a couple of people say this on what are I really think it was purely a financial move, you know, financial move, get under the tax now they're not paying the taxes here much less worried about the financial future of the team,

and they got a bunch of first round picks. So I think that was probably the thought process from Houston standpoint, But from a purely basketball standpoint, it doesn't make any sense. Let's so I want to get to I want to spend a bunch of time talking about what Brooklyn looks like, but I want to quickly touch on this Philly situation because I joked about this with you before in our last part. I think it was one week ago or

two weeks ago. I I was worried that Philly was playing so well that they were going to play themselves out of a James Harden trade, talking them into a situation where they would think that they were fine without him, And I do believe that that's what happened. And now the one silver lining they're the one thing that that Darryl Morey might be clinging to is that Joe l Emp has been awesome, and he was awesome again last night.

He was hitting one legged fadeaways, he was hitting a variety of dribble pull ups against multiple contesting in congested defense. He looked like the kind of guy that might be able to solve Ben Simmons's problems. So it maybe literally that simple, but I still think that they that they kind of, through the success that they had in these opening weeks, played themselves into talking themselves into thinking that they didn't need James Harden, and I think that could

end up being a mistake in the long run. It easily could be. But indeed, right now he's he just turned twenty six, so he's entering his prime. Twelve and three assist, two blocks of game one and a half steels, shooting thirty eight from the from three eight six from the line, had forty five What did he have the other night? This is great podcasting, just reading off numbers. Had forty five sixteen five and five steals and a block the other night last night, So he is playing

absolutely incredible right now. I'd say he's probably the front runner for m VP, maybe more. He is banking. Our best player is finally hitting his prime, and we think he is good enough to be the best player on a championship team. And we don't need James Harden. We don't want to mortgage our future for James Harden, um because hard at the end of the day, Harden is incredible, right I've said that many times. Um. I think my

thoughts on Harden are well known. But he is in his thirties and Simmons is in his early twenties, and if he can just kind of figure out how to be a better player in the half court and that better utilize his skill set moving forward in the half court, he can easily do the second best player on a

championship team. So more he's betting on the future. He's betting on a team that has looked really good through the first eleven or so games of this even even with all the COVID protocol stuff they're going through right now. Um and and a potential matchup with the Lakers, EMBIID typically gives a d a lot of problems. Right There's obviously still the Lebron James factor on the other side for the Lakers, marcusol At that too, that too, but EMBIAD has typically given a deal a lot of problems.

So maybe they're just banking on and be being the best big man in that series by a wide margin, um if possible, and then him carrying them to a title. So and Ben Simmons may very well be the best possible guy to guard Kevin Durant Earl Lebron James, which is what you're gonna nectably have to do to win a title anyway, and it could literally be that simple. I do trust that Darryl Morriy has thought about all

this stuff. I think that, you know, I think my thing has always been that I trust James Harden for as long as you can focus him into the things that he's good at. And one of the biggest reasons why I think they nearly won the title in two thousand eighteen is because of the fact that that Rockets defense and Chris Paul, Chris Paul and his alpha dog mentality and his his versatility offensively allowed allowed James Harden's weaknesses to kind of be put on the back burner

and they nearly won the title. And that's kind of been my philosophy with the with the the idea of putting him in Philadelphia was you put him with even if you lose Ben Simmons. You're putting in with with Eyeball, You're putting in with Tobias Harris, You're putting in with Joel Embiad. You're putting in with a lot of really good defensive players that that that would allow him to kind of mimic the two eighteen Rockets kind of situation, and you have Joe l and b that A's this

whole other layer of offensive versatility. It's a much cleaner um, it's a much cleaner basketball fit, uh side by side with alongside James Harden. There's a lot of different things there that just made sense to me. But for whatever reason, they talked themselves out of it. And I'm sure it'll be fine. It could even be a culture thing. It could literally just be that they don't like Darryl Moray knows all that is to know about James Harden, and he just didn't want to deal with it anymore. It

could literally do that simple. It could be. It absolutely could be. And and the one thing I had point to relative to Rockets is that the biggest thing I think that Chris Paul did for James Harden was he could just control the flow of the game, right He he basically knew when the time was to get hard in the ball and when it wasn't his time. Paul

could literally he still does it with Phoenix. He he's kind of changed Phoenix's outlook just in terms of how they play that the style that they play, because he is so good at controlling tempo and dictating possessions um and I don't know, as great as Embat is, that's not really his strength, right, So if you're counting on Harden to dictate the majority possessions, we know how that

story ends every single time and playoff flame outs. So maybe morey with the like you're saying, the breadth of information he has about hard and he just in terms of culture fit and then terms of how that guy plays down the stretch and playoff games. Maybe he just didn't trust and he said, let's just go all in

on the future. We build something really nice here. And they still do have some flexibility moving forward, and they have some good young guys on the roster, including Maxie and Tibo, who definitely would have went out the door in that deal. Maybe they're just betting on that because those guys actually fit the time line even maybe a little bit better than Harden does. Like I said, and he just turned twenty six. He's been around for so long that you think he's a little bit older. He

literally turned twenty six a couple of weeks ago. I think. So the guy's got if he stays healthy. That's always a big caveat with him. If he stays healthy, he's probably got five, six, seven more years. Is one of the best players in the league. UM, and I'd rather beat on that than maybe shortening the window and um going all in on Hardened, because Harden has proven to me that he can be the best player on a championship team, and I wouldn't even necessarily think he'd be

the best player. It's it's it's more just like think of it this way. When James Harden was with the best teammate he ever had, which I mean after leaving Oklahoma City, it was in two thousand and eight team with Chris Paul, who was probably right around the tenth best player in the league at that point, and he was around in elite defense, and he nearly won a title and beat nearly beat a really talented team in that Warrior team. And now you'd be talking about pairing

him with more of like a top five player. I had him beat outside the top ten before the season, but they had a lot to do with his poor showing last year. He's just a better guy now than he was then. He's in better shape. You can tell he's moving quicker, he's got a bet, he's got his touch is peeking, and there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff there that kind of puts him in that conversation so that they've got to him in the

room too. He needed a different voice in the room to going from Brett Brown and Dock I think helped a lot of huge difference, huge difference and like, and so I think that there's no question that staying on the Ben Simmons path is better for them, you know, five years from now. I'm just a big believer in pushing your chips in the middle if you want to win. And that's just kind of that was my ideology with

it all along. But I do think that we should talk about Brooklyn primarily because they are the one the team that infinitely becomes more interesting as a result of this. So the last part that I want to hit on with Philly, I think maybe what we're seeing here is Mariy learning his lessons in a way, right, because Morey was the biggest proponent, especially kind of early. Of doesn't matter. Acquire as many stars as possible and then just figure

it out. Figure the rest of the roster out. Chemistry doesn't matter, it does, None of that stuff matters as long as you have superstars. I think five six years ago, Maury Apps gets this deal done and he doesn't even worry about it. He said, we'll figure the rest out later. Now, after losing to the Warriors four or five times, after losing to the Lakers last year, a team with great chemistry,

even though they came together quickly. Maybe he's kind of learned his lesson and said, you know what, maybe there is something to this continuity thing to guys liking each other in the locker room, which Billy seems to have at least improved on, you know, compared to years past this year. So like I'm saying, maybe more he has learned a lesson and he's um he's better for it, because the guy absolutely is one of the best talent

acquires in the entire league. The missing piece has always been does he actually believe in real team chemistry stuff, which maybe he does now so and it could literally be that he likes what he's seeing with him being and and and so uh so. Looking at the Brooklyn Nets roster at this point, so you've you've now ditched two of your primary ball handlers, uh one in an unfortunate fashion. Spencer didn't what he partially tearing his A C L. But now you you've given away caress Vert.

So you're you're basically built on three ball handlers and Kyrie Irving, who may or may not show up and we'll talk about that later. Kevin Durant and and James Harden. Outside of that, there really aren't a whole lot of guys who know how to put the ball on the

floor and make plays. Joe Harris is okay. I actually like him a little bit better off the ball in terms of cutting and slashing and attacking closeouts than I do as a guy who can really like make complicated decisions off the dribble, So that automatically becomes a little bit of a shortcoming there and then the This is the most interesting part of this trade to me, by losing Jared Allen, and it's very clear that that it kind of seems like he was a throw in because

I don't really understand why Cleveland would want him because they already have two centers. So I just it may literally be, and this is another insane element to this, It may literally be that somehow DeAndre Jordan, in conversations with Kevin Durant, went to management and asked Jared Allen to be shipped out of town because I refused to believe that Jared Allen in the Cleveland Cavaliers wanting him as a third center with JaVale McGee and Andre Drummond

was the breaking point for this trade. I just refused to believe it because as clear Houston didn't want him, it's clear Indiana didn't want him, and so in in Cleveland's role in this trade was so minimal. I really really don't understand why he was given up except for ego purposes having to do with with DeAndre Jordan's. I hadn't even thought of that angle, like, at least not

in depth, the DeAndre Jordan angle. But Alan has been playing well recently, like when when George wasn't playing, there was a noticeable difference and how much better their defense was with Alan on the floor. So I guess it's entirely possible that that happened. But the Brooklyn is essentially hunting defense in every meaningful way now and just saying we are going to be, I guess, the greatest offensive

team of all time. We have three of the greatest isolation scores ever, and we're just gonna bank on them being to outscore being able to outscore you every single night. And I think you know, you, being a Lebron fan, you kind of know how this goes in a way when you have three ball dominant guys on the same team. One of those guys always get short changed. With Miami, it was Chris Bosh. With Cleveland, it was Kevin Love.

And those are two guys who were easily twenty point per game scores before they joined forces with Lebron, and then after just because of how basketball works and how many possessions there are in a game and how many touches you can afford to how many players, they both got worked into more ancillery roles in the offense. So the basketball fit is just kind of bizarre to me. You have three guys who were really two guys who

meet the ball. With Harden and Kyrie, Katie can definitely play more off the ball, but it seems like part of the reason why he went to Brooklyn as he was tired of playing in Steve's curve system where he didn't have the ball all the time. So I don't see. Well, the talent is obvious there. You have three of the fifteen best players in the league. You have three of the best isolation scores. Ever, I don't see the basketball thing.

We talked about this a little bit in our preseason, but I just don't see how this works on the floor. And maybe they all, you know, put aside their differences and decide they're all going to buy in and play really hard and it's all gonna be flowers and rainbows. But I just don't see it happening on the floor. And I would think that you're with me on this um,

but maybe you have a totally different view. So well, you and I have talked to in the previous podcasts about how we thought that there was somewhat of an offensive ceiling where you where you start to see diminishing returns. Basically, just like the whole point of an offensive possession in the NBA is to generate a quality shot, and you're gonna be able to generate a quality shot in two

different ways. One by running some sort of offensive set that gets a player in a catch and shoot situation or a cutting situation, and two to have a really really talented offensive player break down the defense leading to an open shot for someone else in a in a less a less structured what if that makes sense? Those are basically the two ways to generate offense, and I mean there are there obviously other ways, but those are

the two core ways. And so as long as you have guys who can make plays off a catch and shoot situations, which the Nets already had. And as long as you have guys who who can create offense off the dribble when things break down, which the Nets also already had, there's there becomes a point where there's diminishing returns. Now, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant are both really good spot

up shooters. James Harden should be, but for whatever reason, he's more content to rest when he doesn't have the ball as opposed to kind of putting himself in a position or you can be a threat. So the idea is is when James Harden has the ball and Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant are on the floor, they become really really good spot up threats. And and so there

is some basketball sense there. But my question has always been when you're when you're framing that out, like what what rate do you think Kevin Durant is gonna hit a wide open jump shot? He might hit it at like fort right, like wide open butt naked shot on the wing. What is Torry and Prince gonna hit a wide open, butt naked shot on the wing at maybe

thirty five, you know, maybe thirty eight? Like the difference in a completely wide open shot for those players is a diminishing return compared to asking them to create something off the dribble, you know what I mean. It would be because there's just no player in the league other than like in other than guys like Steph or Ray Allen or Kyle Korver that are just hitting seventy of their wide open catching shoot jump shots. So the bottom

line is there's a diminishing return offensively. The way that their team was structured and the reason why it looked kind of interesting at times was, uh, they had this really good shot blocking center and Jared Allen. They had a lot of really really good offensive players. Their offense was really fluid, and they had they were they were able to generate offenses against elite defenses. But there were moments and Kevin Durant would engage himself defensively and they

would look like this awesome to a team. That was their winning formula, and they let that slip a lot in the last few weeks, which is why their record isn't supid impressive, And it has a lot to do with what they did on the defensive end, but their

offense is still great. I just don't really I I don't understand the the the risk to reward factor with James Harden as it pertains to improving what they were already doing on the offensive end of the floor and somehow improving their defense, which at this point, like I don't see any situation where they don't become a worst defensive team. At this point, you've got to lean on DeAndre Jordan's now for a lot, for a long time.

You've got to lean on him a lot. They do not have a lot of depth at that position without him and and Torre and Prince is basically their only off ball wing, you know, not counting Kevin Durant, so I the roster all of a sudden is like extremely top heavy, like extremely top heavy. The offense was never going to be the issue in a playoff series. We've talked about this was never going to be the issue. The issue is gonna be can they get enough stops?

Because they were going to score enough, you know, especially if they're getting stops. They're getting stops, they're gonna score a ton because they're coming at you in transition and now you're you're mismatched and they're they're playing however they want. But in theory if if all three of those guys decided, you know what, I'm actually gonna play a brand of team basketball, it would be beautiful and I think it

could work really well. But the reality is, none of those guys have ever really bought into that for an extended period of time, Durant being probably doing it for the longest time when he did it for probably a year and a half with Golden State. But besides that, none of these guys, at least in recent memory, have really bought into playing like a team heavy concept of basketball.

So I don't know, man, I just don't. I don't see how it makes them that much better, because, like you're alluding to, the the offense was already really, really,

really good. The issue was always going to be can they get enough stops to beat I mean, eventually in the finals, I guess the Lakers, And that just I mean, that looks a lot worse than it did an hour ago, and quietly quietly, the Lakers are tied for first place in the NBA overall defense that I think like one oh four point seven points per Hunter prossessions per Hunter possessions or something like that. But literally, literally the team they have to and inevitably get through to win the title.

Is currently the top six defense and is defending at the top of the league level despite kind of showing inconsistent effort night in and night out. You know, it's it's one of those things where like you're you're looking at this titan on the other side of the the n b A that's doing things the right way in a proven winning fashion, and you just built your team around. And there's an interesting personality thing going on with the Nets too that is kind of being glossed over. So

these are these are the three stars for the Brooklyn Nets. Now, I've got one who's literally on a sabbatical, who believes the earth is flat and may or may not want to retire because he doesn't seem to really enjoy playing basketball that much anymore. I've got two who is legitimately like fat and and has been blatantly giving up on his Papa Smurf. He looked like popa Smurf last night during warmups when he's wearing that blue jumpsuit. He literally

looked like Papa Smurf. Somebody called him. He called him Santa Claus on Twitter. The other day. I was dying laughing. The the it's you've got a fat man who quit on his team to force a trade in our third to get in shape at least at least he's got to lose ten pounds like easily minimum, and and so and then and then our third guy, the the the leader of the group, the one who has his ship most together, is literally a guy who just left a

winning situation because the dynamic mess with his ego. Like that's the that's the reality. Like he would still be in Golden State if he was wired in a way that didn't after in how much he cared about his imprint on the winning situation. So you can imagine how it might affect him if all of a sudden, James Harden comes in and is averaging thirty five points a game.

You can you know, it's like it's one of those things where like you've got a really you basically have a Molotov cocktail of personalities on this team, and and there are so many different ways it could go south, Like I was thinking about this. My one of my main talking points with you today was supposed to be based on the premise that he'd go to Philly. Was supposed to be that. I that I thought this was a legitimate championship contender on the same level as the Lakers.

That was the way I felt about James Harden and Philly with that defense, with the give and take that Harden MB could have, with the leap that Embiat is taking, and with the proven method of James Harden in two thousand eighteen, with an elite defense and a really good co star, and literally even that locker room, the Philly

has great veteran leadership in that locker room. Now they have kind of put their foot down on Harden when he's being an idiot right like, and he would be the only one basically because then and Beads, I mean, I think and Bead for all of his flaws, he's definitely an alph and he's definitely a guy who wants to win. I don't think anybody ever really questions that, and so and I just I literally thought that that team was a bigger threat. And and I'm so much

less worried as someone who's not rooting for them. I'm so much less worried about Brooklyn now even than I was before, because there was always a scenario where even if they b s through the season, that Kevin Durant would engage himself defensively in the postseason, and so would Jared Allen, and so would Joe Harris, and maybe Kyrie gets to his two thousand and sixteen levels and suddenly they become a threat that is off the table. Now,

that's not going to happen. They just don't have the physicality that they would need to really bring that option to the table, and and like and and so you're you're you're in this awkward situation where like they have to they have a mid level exception that they haven't used yet five point seven million. They have a disabled player exception that they haven't used yet, which is I think right around the same amount, like five point seven million, But there's really no players left to use on use

it for. You can't trade a player into that exception because you just blew every single draft pick you've got for the next seven years on this trade. So you you're in a situation where you really can't do anything until next summer. And even then, all you can do is sign a player with the mid level exception and hopefully find some veteran minimum guys. All the good veteran minimum guys are gone right now, they will be the

premier buyout destination. That's one thing, but there is there is kind of and and I. And the reason why they'll be the premier buyout destination is, as you and I have discussed, these guys want to play, they want minutes. So even though they may rather go to l A for various reasons, they'll probably go to Brooklyn because Brooklyn is gonna be like, we need basketball players. We gave up all our basketball players. We need basketball players, you know.

So it's it's one of those things where they will be having to build the rest of this roster with fringe level NBA talent, and that could end up being something that limits them moving forward, like permanently. Yeah, who is guarding Joel and beating the playoff series for them? Guest DeAndre Jordan's But DeAndre Jordan is the tendency to foul, and Joel Embiad is one of the best centers in

the world at drawing fouls. Maybe they're gonna put Jeff Green on him, Yeah, good luck, And Kevin Durant would just he put him under the basket like everything. Beat is a big dude, like Anthony Davis has turned to do a big guy and and be kind of towers over him, like beating one of the biggest dudes I've

ever seen any moves really well. But I think what all this shows, um this hardened trade, at least from a Brooklyn perspective, It's shows how hard it is to build a team correctly in the NBA now, because superstars have become so powerful, right and you're almost kind of always bending at their will. That building a team quote unquote the correct way, you know, basically getting two superstars and putting hard working role players around them. That's not

what a lot of stars want at this point. They actually want to build the super team when that hasn't actually shown to be the most proven method of winning championships. It's the it's the quick fix. It's the easiest way to say on paper, Oh, we got the best team, let's just roll the balls out and go play basketball and hope the talent wins it. But I mean, how many teams like that have actually won championships. The teams that did the third star, they've always had to play

the bullet and become more of a role guy. We saw it with Chris Bosh Chris Boss has talked about openly so many times how tough it was for him to say, Oh, I was this twenty four and twelve guy who's one of the best players in the NBA. I'm one of the top ten guys in the league. He goes to Miami with Lebron and Wade and all of a sudden, he's basically a glorified role player's shooting spot up jump shots and he's dirty work guy on defense. So I mean, who is that guy going to be

for the Brooklyn Nets? You know? And Sean Marks has really done a tremendous job turning that franchise around from the Bailey King era where they had basically forfeited all their picks for old Kevin Garnett and Paul Peers and they had no assets left. They brought in a bunch of guys that made them an enticing option for free agents, and then Kyrie and Kevin Durant got there and they scrapped everything that made that team a super enticing place

for free agents. Point being, I think there's there's a long topic of player of empowerment here that I don't really want to get into, but I think it's really just it is so difficult to build a team correctly if you're superstars aren't actually bought into the way to build it. Because they have so much power, they can just demand a trade. That's basically what Harden just did.

He said I want out because I'm not happy with the situation, and then Houston traded him, you know, six weeks after saying, oh, we're gonna stick it out, We're gonna keep him here as long as possible, things are gonna get uncomfortable, and then six weeks later he's out the door. So yeah, it's just it's a really weird situation and one that I would not want to be a part of as a coach or a management or

anything like that. It's just a mess. Strictly speaking about James Harden in his attitude, Like, we do kind of have a a positive track record of players being disgruntled in one situation and then suddenly appearing engaged in being a totally different player once they get moved. So a couple of really quick examples. Lebron in two thousand eight team everybody remembers that being one of the best seasons

of Lebron's career, but right before the trade deadline. There was like a ten game stretch there where he was bad and and it wasn't quite James Harden quit on the team bad, but it was kind of like openly pouting on the court bad. Did you make a trade or I'm just gonna tank the season exactly. He basically was pressuring the front office into making trades of Isaiah Thomas and Jake Carter and some of some of these

other guys. Jimmy Butler in Minnesota famously pitched a massive hissy fit and then went to Philly and was one of the best players on the floor in the UH in that series with the Raptors. There there are all these examples of players in NBA history disgruntled, acting out, and then suddenly just getting reinvigorated by a new situation. So I am not worried at all about James Harden's play.

It's we're just basketball fit. And then also when they start losing, which I think they will a lot as a result of some of the flaws in their roster construction, how are they going to handle it as a group When you've got Kyrie the sabbatical guy, and you've got James Hard and the fat man who likes to quit on his team. And Kevin Durant, the guy who made his most recent free agent decision based on his ego. So those are all things that I think will be

interesting to see how they how they break down. Now, Um, about the the championship contender thing that you were discussing, which I think you brought up a really interesting point. You know, the Miami Heat uh one a title, won two titles, and everyone thinks it has to do with

this idea of the Big three. And don't get me wrong, it was very It was a very talented team, but they won pretty much because of unbelievable defense and they're being a really clear hierarchy that resulted in Lebron kind of being a solo star and Dwayne Wade and Chris

Bosh being like subsidiary stars. That's why it worked. And then you get to the Golden State Warriors, which were they They won in in two thousand fifteen in a model where they basically had two stars, Clay Thompson and Steph Draymond Green was a dirty work guy, but they defended extremely well. Two thousand sixteen, Kevin Love went off the reservation mentally, he was gone, like Draymond Green completely erased that man's confidence and he was a shell of himself.

And it was basically Kyrie and Lebron and a team

that was really defending. Then you go to the two thousand seventeen two thousand eighteen Warrior teams, which were historical outliers in terms of overall talent, so there's no point in even really looking at him defense though, point I agree, But then you get to two thousand nineteen and it's like, Okay, I've got Kawhi Leonard in Pascal Siaka with this awesome give and take and then a really good defense, and then it's like Kyle Lowry, well short change Kyle Roll

Lowry never that's my guy, and you're that's a good point. But again there was there was this really clear hierarchy where there was one guy that ended up with the ball every time, and then you end up with this two thousand twenty Lakers team exact same thing to bona

fide Superstars, unbelievable elite defense. And even in the Superstars, there's a clear hierarchy in the way that they differ to each other, like they have mutual respect, but it's like Lebron's running the show down the stretch of these games. And that's where it gets a little That's where it gets a little bit more complicated for this Brooklyn Nets team because they're missing a lot of things in that regard. They do not have the defensive presidents that they need.

They do not that they don't have the defensive will and just the willingness to put in that work. And then also they've got three stars, none of which have ever shown a willingness to take a subsidiary role, and none of it which really look like guys who would be willing to be like, here, you do it. At the end of games, they're gonna be there's gonna be

a little tug a war there. So every thing that we've learned about NBA history, you know, has pointed to us that there's a specific way to win, and it's what there's a when there's a really clear hierarchy and a really elite defense. And our our friend Bobby on Twitter always talks about how the two fifteen Warriors taught

us the wrong lesson. Well, I could go a step further there and say that the two thousand twelve, two thirteen heat taught us the wrong lesson because they taught us that this idea that you want to get together with your buddies that are stars and you want to win. But the reality is you need a really clear cut hierarchy and you need guys who do the dirty work.

You have to be able to defend an extremely high level and that guy who's your number one, everybody needs to defer to him and he needs to be the best player on the floor and a lot of in every one of these playoff series or you're just not gonna win. And that's kind of like the the only real pathway to win. And we I think we learned the wrong lesson, like I said earlier, absolutely and and even to point to the seventeen and eighteen Warriors, who

were historical outliers talent wise. Part of the reason why it worked offensively is because Stephan Clake and morph into two of the best off ball players of all time. Right, so you can give the ball to Kevin Durant and Stephan Quay are number one, are gonna be mad and number two they are so good at playing off ball that you can make it work at the end of the day. And as great as Kyrie and Kadi could

be off ball, they aren't those guys. They just don't move like that like that, It's not in their wiring to constantly be moving off ball and kind of just give hard in the space that he needs to work. So yeah, from a basketball standpoint, I just really don't see how it works. They have so their next two games where they play the nixt tonight so hard and won't be available for that, then they play Orlando on Saturday.

The way I'm looking at this Brooklyn team moving forward, especially if Kyrie comes back, They're gonna beat the crap out of bad teams just from a talent standpoint, but I think they're really going to struggle against the good teams, especially ones that defend. Um. They play the Books right after the Magic on Monday. Um So, I mean, I guess we'll see how that looks. We'll see if Kyrie is even playing basketball at that point. I don't think he will be yet. I thank you, still out for

like at least another seven days. Um. So, maybe it'll actually look okay with just Harden and k D because they there will be some type of pecking order in hierarchy. There's just two guys that need the ball, so it might actually look kind of queen. But once Kyrie comes back into the mix, I mean, if that even happens, um,

I think it's gonna get pretty ugly pretty quickly. Yeah, And there's so you look at their closing lineup, which is gonna be basically Kyrie, James Harden, Kevin Durant, Joe Harris and DeAndre Jordan's and maybe there's a version of that where they can go small and uh and and and bringing uh Torrian Prince or somebody like that. Jeff Jeff Green, clear he seems to be the one that Kevin Durant trust the most as well. I think it'll

be there. It'll be their big three. It'll be Harrison Green because they can tell themselves that Durant's enough to protect the rim and they should be able to get enough rebounds because I guess Harden's physical too, and so it is Green. But either way, it's it's a weird lineup, and so there's a lot of shooting in that lineup. James Jeff Green is a very inconsistent shooter, but he also kind of has this weird history of making big

shots and playoff games, So there's that. Part two. The question is like, if you can theoretically get Kevin Durant to defend at his peak, and you can theoretically get Kyrie Irving to defend the way he did in two thousand sixteen, and you can theoretically get James Harden to defend the way he did in two thousand eighteen, which

is literally just not completely be in that negative. If you can get those things, there's a version of this story where it goes, well, my question would just be, you know, given the fact that the best indicator of future performances past performance, what evidence have we seen that shows us that these guys are gonna be willing to

reach those levels again? Especially when you consider the fact that, like you know, Kevin Durant has always in his head fought this internal battle about whether or not he wants to to devote his energy on the defensive end. What about adding a player as talented as James Harden is gonna wake that up even more. If anything, it's gonna get worse because he's going to trick himself into thinking, well, now I really don't have to do this because we

just have all this talent I don't know. I just there are versions of this story where it goes well, but I feel like there are many more versions of

this story where it doesn't go well. Sure, I mean, but you basically be banking on is the outlier seasons in their career, not the norm, right, So you would bank on that all of them tapping into something that they had in seasons where um, they actually committed to the defensive end, and they all work really hard and they all kind of I guess respect one another for lack of a better term, and they really they truly commit to winning a championship, which would mean they're playing

hard defensively and giving maximum effort most nights. Um, it can be done. I think the talent is there defensively, Like Kyrie is a fairly good defender when he wants to be. Durant is one of the better defenders in the NBA when he wants to be, and hardened for all of his warts. Is actually a pretty sturdy guy in the post, like he could speak. Yeah, he can easily guard fours and five if they need him to,

especially if if he is doing less on offense. That would be the real key that they all realize Okay, I actually don't have to do as much now. Um, I can relax a little bit more on offense, and I can work a little bit harder on defense because I have these other two guys who I know can create a shot at any moment in time. Right, So it would be all of them trusting each other and all of them being willing to take a step back

and and commit to winning basketball. But almost everything in their careers, I told us that is not really the route they go. Um, and it just, I mean, it doesn't seem like ky reason I had space to do that at all. I could be wrong. I could be totally all this teammates seem to love him, right all in occasions from Kyrie's teammates for the most part, are that they actually really like the guys, at least in Brooklyn. So I could be totally off base here. Um, but

the last week has not looked great. So this is a perfect time to segue into the Kyrie thing. And you bring up an interesting point because I think there's a huge difference between likability as it pertains to you know, what they think of him as a man and what they think of him as as a teammate, and you know, this has been the hardest part that I've had. You know, like, there's no doubting the fact that that Kyrie Irving is

an artist, and that's the way you've used himself. He've used himself as an artist on the basketball floor, on the basketball court. Who's performing for us? That's the way you've used it, um. But there is a harsh reality to it that, uh, that it's also a job, you know, and when you are trying to run an operation like

a basketball team, especially when you have championship aspirations. This is not you know, the Oklahoma City Thunder where it's like, hey, we're coming to work here and we're kind of building culture, but really we're building for ten years from now. With

all these draft picks that we have. It's like no, no, no, Like Kevin Durant left to come win a title, Like Steve Nash took this job because he wanted to try to win a title, like a lot of these guys, like you know, uh, a lot of these guys are going to be looking at the situation and coming to work every day with the goal of winning a title.

And there's as you and I both know, as teams as guys who have rooted for recent champions, like, there's a process as to that every day, there's an effort level and a consistent focus that you have to bring. There's continuity, There's all of these There's chemistry is a huge part of it. There are all these different things that you have to bring to the table consistently over the course of the season to build yourself into a

team that can contend for a title. There are just not a lot of examples in NBA history of teams wil bs their way through the season and suddenly when

the title just doesn't happen. So my question would be, you know, like I understand the the the the I understand the ideology behind like giving Kyrie his space and respecting his opinions and understanding that he's, you know, dealing with some mental health stuff, and understanding that you know, he's he's off like kind of discovering himself or whatever it is that he's doing. I understand that, But there is a harsh reality of what the team is trying to do and and at what point, at what point

is it time to hold him accountable for that? Because again I have no problem with with hire deciding that now is not the time to play basketball. But if that's the case, he can't be wishy washy about it. He needs to get out. And if he's gonna get out, like send everybody a text and be like, listen, you know, guys, I can't play this year. The virus scares me. I'm piste off about stuff going on in the country. I don't know what the deal is. I can't be here.

I'll come back next year, but next year I'm here to win a title. Like next year, I'm taking this seriously. That's fine, But like, how how do you walk back into the locker room next week and be like, Okay, guys, I'm here now, I'm ready, Like like when they've been working their butts off and trying to build championship habits like it just it just strikes to me is deeply disrespectful to what they're trying to do. It strikes me

as flaky. It strikes me as as as a person who's so wrapped up in themselves that they're completely unaware of the way their actions impact the people around them, including one of your best friends that you just swayed at an All Star break and to come into joining you in Brooklyn, and I have a huge problem with his behavior, even though I can acknowledge the fact that he may have his reasons for why he's doing what

he's doing. Yeah, I'm not gonna sit here in question the guy's reasoning for doing what he's doing at all. I mean, that is not my place. Look, I understand him being frustrated about the what the direction of our country and the way that COVID has impacted all of us because of the response at a federal level that was so bumbled. It's absolutely the fact that we're still in this situation is patently absurd. And that's I mean,

that's really all I'm gonna say about it. And I understand being frustrated by the ship that went on at the Capitol last week. Like I get all of it, I really do. But at the end of the day, you have to be accountable with the people in that building, right, those are people that you're going to work with every day. Look, man, I I stopped playing basketball in my mid twenties. I understand, and it was kind of a personal choice that I made.

I could have went and played some small time pro basketball, but I was like I'm kind of done with this, honestly, Like I'm ready to move on to the next chapter

of my life. Like it is not abnormal to go through like an identity crisis in your twenties, and it seems like that might be what he's going through, right, kind of going through this path, this path of self discovery, which is great, like more power to him, but kind of like you're pointing to, you have to at least tell the people in that building, and maybe he has at this point, but all indications are from like Steve Nash and Shawn Marks that he isn't really even communicating

with them, And like, I don't number one know how like you're saying you walk back into that locker room and your teammates respect you, and even if they're saying they do publicly, there's definitely a little bit of like, alright, screw this guy, Like he just comes and goes as he pleases and he's not really putting in the work

every single day to buy into this process. And number two, I don't know, from a league wide perspective, how you sell people on this product and stuff like this is always happening, like like guys just kind of coming like it is. It is so detached from reality to expect people to buy into your product when people have been going to work with COVID issues. And I'm not saying it's right with with COVID being president and all this

stuff going on in the country. People have been going to work with this for months and and have not been really compensated in any way by the government when they weren't going to work right, Like there are people with like true, true struggles going on in the country, and the fact that that you're complaining about having to go work in the NBA, Like come on, man, Like the casual fan, like the person that's going to work at a construction plan every day, or the social worker

who is helping the person who just had five people in their family die from COVID because they don't have the proper healthcare, Like, but you're complaining about going to play NBA games, Like, dude, come on you, I don't understand how you expect sympathy at that point, Like I'm not going to be sympathetic towards that, and neither are most like regular people, Like it is just and Kyrie has put his money where his mouth is with a lot of this stuff, right, he's sitting in on on

Congress sessions with with senators, he's he's donating it a lot of money, so like he is doing stuff behind the scenes that that has happened thing, but publicly, I don't understand how we expect sympathy from anybody when there's people who have been hit so hard by this thing and he's just kind of brushing it off nonchalantly. From a pr standpoint, it just like you're saying, it comes off as incredibly disrespectful. Um and and to wrap it all up, I'm not mad at Kyrie the person. I

totally understand what he's going through. I really do. Like I've gone through it, Like I've gone through the point where I was like my whole identity was wrapped up in basketball and now I'm in this weird spot where I'm not doing anything basketball and ball thing where I get it. I get that part, But as a teammate, I would be absolutely furious with the guy, like I would want to take his head off, like, dude, you can help us win a championship. Be here, like help

us do it so well. That's the most frustrating part about Twitter. Twitter conversations around this too, because it's like it's like, Okay, Kyrie does something that is completely deserving of criticism in the sense that he basically goes a wall on his team for a certain amount of time, didn't communicate. Even when he did communicate, he won't tell them when he's in back and and in there in the middle of the season, and he's basically violating his

player contracts. So that's that's that's thing number one. And he's being fined for it. He's not he's not getting paid. So from a financial standpoint, they are, I guess handling it correctly, yes, but so that income people like you and I who go, hey, like this thing Kyrie is doing isn't great, And then all these people come jumping down your throat and they're like, he's actually a good guy. He's given all this money, he's done all this and it's like, dude, I didn't say anything about who he

is as a person. I'm not saying he's not a good person. I'm not saying he hasn't been extremely generous. And like I saw a thing that he like covered all the w NBA players salaries during the last year. That's awesome, that's great. However, that does not make him immune to criticism. That's ridiculous. Like it's like he should get our sympathy in this situation, especially when it looks like he's just compared to the plight of like the

normal American person. Right now, he's doing fairly well, he's doing extremely well. And so this is a good time to segue into the COVID stuff because I think you brought up an interesting point and it's something that has been driving me nuts because you know, there, I think there is a disconnect between the way NBA Twitter feels about COVID in the way that basketball players feel about COVID in the for the most part, I think it's like media types here, the way media types feel about

COVID versus how the players feel about it. Yeah, So, for instance, like the reality is is that, yeah, there are some of you out there that can lock yourself in your house and never ever go outside and never ever risk the virus. But the vast majority of people out there, and I'm not even talking about the crazy dude who's going through Walmart not wearing a mask and in a costing a security guard. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like normal people, the vast

majority of people. You know, we wear a mask in public. You know, we avoid large gatherings. You know, we we we do our best, but we kind of live in a gray area. We do take some risk, you know, maybe it's you occasionally go to the him, or you occasionally go to a restaurant, or for me, like I was playing pick up basketball. Like we all have our things that we did because we're humans. And and it's

in a note. It's a lot easier to say on Twitter that you think that you should never take a risk than it is to actually never take a risk in real life. And that's the way these NBA players are and it's the biggest way. And maybe you can kind of maybe you'll agree with me, maybe you won't.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. But the truth is is, like I have had absolutely no understanding of how anybody on Twitter could sit there and say, oh, they need to stop the season, like what that ideology is or where they or what their reasoning is, because what I what is so flabbergasting to me and is that they're so naive that they think that if they stopped the season, it would stop COVID from spreading through the player pool.

Like these guys literally, if they were left to their own devices, the vast majority of them would be out there doing reckless stuff, just like all of us are. And so the reality is is like and they'll go like, oh, you're playing basketball, You're ending on each other, You're breathing on each other. It's like, that is true. But you know what else is true. They're playing basketball against people.

They're breathing on people who have been tested for COVID twice that day, okay, And there I used to get into these arguments with people before the bubble that would say something along the lines of like, you know, like, oh, how dare you say that the bubble is safer than the real world. That's ridiculous, And I would be like, uh, yeah, it is because no one in the real world is actually doing the things that the people on Twitter are asking them to do. They're not doing them. And guess what.

I was fortunate to be right in the sense that there were zero cases of COVID inside the bubble, but

there's a similar thing here on a lesser scale. On a grander scale, I should say, like, the reality is is that like playing basketball under these circumstances, if they obey the protocols, is actually a lot safer than what these guys would be doing in the real world, where half of them would be playing pick up basketball and strangers and the other half of them will be going to They were playing basketball, but they were strangers exactly.

And so is the thing. If you want to stop playing because you don't want to risk it at all, that's fine, But don't tell me it's because of COVID, because that's not why if you want to if you want to stop playing, it's because you don't want to deal with the protocols, which is fine. That's also fair. You're more than welcome, George Hill, You're more than welcome, Kyrie Irving, You're more than welcome to not have to deal with the protocol It's mentally taxed. I not sure

you're not getting paid if you do that. You're not getting paid to do that. I don't want to tell you. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it is very mentally taxing. Like I haven't had to go through that, right, I haven't had to go through getting tested twice a day and kind of always being unders of veilance, and I could see how that would not only be very stressful to a normal person, but especially to a Black American in this country right now with the past history of this country.

Like I get all of that, like that, it's not it's not great, man, it isn't. But if this, if they want to continue getting paid and they want to continue playing basketball, this is kind of the way it has to be for the time being. And it's not their fault. It's not the NBA's fault. It's our federal

government's fault for not handling this correctly. But yeah, yeah, I really hadn't thought about it from the angle of if they stopped the season, these guys will just kind of do whatever they want, but they will, like COVID cases won't stop the only way. Yeah, were recently through a big party, someone was telling me, like, the only way to do it is you stop the season and everybody kind of gets vaccinated, right that that would be

the way you do it. And I don't want to delve into all of that because there is a lot of dark history with vaccinating African Americans in this country, and that's not something that I feel comfortable touching on. So I'm not going to get into that, but that would be the only way that you stopped the season for a certain period of time. You're like, Okay, everybody's gonna get vaccinated, or at least anybody that wants to

can't get vaccinated. So at the very least, we are curving the spread to a huge degree, because I believe it's like it's of a certain population, you know, of the population gets vaccinated, then we're like super on our way to hurt immunity. Um and and it's much easier to stop the spread essentially. Um But yeah, and they literally prepared for this too. They literally see it. If they didn't sit down at the table and go like, hey, guys,

we're gonna play basketball. Hope it goes well, it's like no, they sat down at the table and they said, Hey, guess what a bunch of you are gonna get COVID. We're gonna end up having to postpone games. So we're gonna do half the schedule right now, and then we're gonna do the other half after so that we can make up for lost time, Like like we're gonna expand rosters, We're gonna do all these different things. Oh, we're gonna expand the playoff pool so you can get in as

a ten seed. So yeah, if you happen to have really bad COVID luck and you end up down on your luck in the standings, there's plenty of time for you to come back and get into that ten seat so you can fight for a spot. Like this was all planned for, and like it just is like it's it's textbook Twitter because someone comes out and tweets something and then all of his buddies and his friends are patting him on his back and cheering him on on Twitter, and I just want to be like, look like, I

am not anti COVID guy, I had COVID. COVID knocked me on my ass. I am a believer in what it is. That has nothing to do with the fact that I'm willing to acknowledge the realities of the way society views COVID, which the society views like the society of used COVID, different than the way Twitter views COVID.

That's just the reality of the situation. And if you give those players the freedoms of being outside of the season, outside of the protocols, they're gonna run crazy, and it's like, like, but Brian Winhorse said the other day on his podcast that that already over thirty percent of the league is expected to have had COVID judging from positive tests. That's not even counting people who are asymptomatic. So what that means that's more than the general public from what I understand.

So it's very clear and statistics that these guys are picking up COVID faster than the average person in America. So like, I don't know what else to tell your average twenty something, especially at twenty something who's in shape. I'm twenty nine years old. Like a lot of my friends are not adhering to anything, Like they don't care because a lot of their friends have gotten COVID, and every single one of their friends who have gotten COVID has been just fine. Right, We're put in this situation

by a government that missman, is a situation everybody. After a while, it was like, you know what, man, I can't stay locked in my house for another six months. I'm sorry, Like I can't. Mentally, I can't do this. This is more taxing on me mentally than anything else. So I'm going to take the risk, and if I get it, then I get it. It won't be great, it probably won't be fun, but I'm gonna take that risk. And NBA players, if anything, they feel more invincible. These

guys have millions of dollars. I can do whatever they want at any point. Everybody has always told them they're great. What would stop them from doing whatever they want right now? And they have giant egos about their bodies. They think their bodies are like machines. Yes, exactly, Like, yeah, it's just the moral preening on Twitter can just get very very annoying, Like it's ridiculous. It's literally so you're not

you're not floating up of everybody else. Man, Like you can sit here and act like you're not doing anything. I'm sure you're you're attending small gatherings with your friends and doing stuff that isn't by COVID protocols, like I know most of you are. Don't lie to yourselves, like, yeah, I stopping this season really wouldn't do anything to help, Like I said, unless the unless the plan is to get a lot of people vaccinated, then it probably would help.

Right then, then you can say we're gonna stop it and that's why we've we've built in this back into the schedule where we can reschedule stuff and every a lot of people are gonna get vacinated and we will be better for it. M So, I'm just a big believer in like and like. I think you need to acknowledge emotions in the way they can impact people. But I think strictly with decision making, it's very important for

somebody in the room to be practical. And and it's always been my it's you know, it works great in my marriage because my wife tends to react to things a little more emotionally and I tend to react to

things a little more practically. And then we try to hear each other out and meet in the middle, and it's like it's like someone in the room has to raise their hand and be like, uh, they're these guys are literally going to go straight to the club if we release them from the protocols, you know, and it's someone in the room has to to to talk that way. And then, for the record, this whole season is taking

place as a result of practicality. There's there's no reason in the world they should be playing basketball right now. They Uh, there's no fans, so they're they're not having

fun in that regard. The protocols suck for these guys because there are a lot more you know, constrained than they would be in their normal lives, and they're playing under like a condensed schedule, and there's just there are a million reasons for them not to be playing except for one gigantic reason why they are, and that's money. They all came to the table and they sat down and they said, Hey, do you guys want to skip the season or you or do you are in risk

losing all that money? Or do you want to try to make this work? And literally all of them were like, let's make this work. I want to You can't have it both ways, you can't. We want our money, but at the same time, we don't want to take the risk because we're all taking risk right now to make money. Like every single person almost in the entire country is taking some type of risk every day to make money. So it's just the reality of the situation of a

bad federal government. The last thing that I'll say about COVID is that a lot of the stuff that the league is doing right now is and I've said this on Twitter. It feels more optics than anything else. Like, if you're allowed to have two guests on the road, why aren't those guests tested? Somebody tell me why we're not testing those guests, Like that is the easiest way, because they know, yeah, yeah, like like it. It is the easiest way to spread COVID throughout the league, and

they know. I think they know how pissed the players would be if you know, you invite a girl over, or you just want to have your on the road, you're in the city that you're from, and you want to have a friend of the hotel and they test positive for COVID. They already can't go to the clubs, they already can't go anywhere. So now you're telling me I can't even have a friend in my room because they have COVID. I think they're they're trying to avoid

just ultimate back lad from the players. But it's like, if you actually want to stop COVID, then you're gonna have to test those people too. But I think ultimately most of these guys don't really care if they get COVID. They don't really care. They think they're going to be fine because most of the people that they know that

are in their age. Rains that have got it are entirely line after a couple of weeks, mm and so, and like I really think that um people sometimes are over dramatic with especially like a George Hill type with his quotes from last night. People are over dramatic about the reality of the situation because like this is not the bubble, you know, because in the bubble, and when the bubble was being planned, there was no hope on

the horizon. There was vaccines were at least six months off at that point, if not more like everything was. It was so everything was so like vague and distant and and there was no real It was like, I guess we're going to try to do this, but like things are really shipping possible, like they didn't they were able gonna they were gonna be able to pull this off. And there were all sorts of people on Twitter, Matt about the bubble. Why are you even doing this? This

is putting people at risk. You're not gonna be able to get this to work. This is silly, and it's like and all those people were just your text with people on Twitter who were mad and wrong, you know. But anyway, like the bubble was that I didn't think they were being strict enough with the guidelines. I thought they were being a little bit too loose. But I and I and I did I agreed with that because I thought that was it was bad that they were letting like hotel workers come in that were not that

were not tested. There. There's definitely some stuff. It wasn't perfect, but they have good job. They probably knew more than we did two in terms of spread because the more that we learned, it's like you have to be exposed for like a good amount of time to actually so they probably weren't super worried about like a player coming in quick contact with a with a hotel worker and

and contracting because it doesn't really happen like that. Yeah, and so the but the reality is is like, hey, George Hill, I'm not asking you to lock yourself in your house for the next six months. That's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you for at least two weeks while things are really bad, to be especially careful.

And uh, now that we realized that the season is on the brink, we're gonna start really digging into this vaccine thing to see if we can acquire it in the private manner, or if we can speak to government officials about that, you know, uh, demonstrating the vaccine for the public or whatever it is. You know, we're gonna

work on this. But but here's the thing. It's January twelve or whatever it is, January and uh probably around like Fauci is on the record that the general public will start getting the vaccine in March end of March.

And now it may take six months to vaccinate the whole public, but at that point, optically, the league can jump in and get because at that point they are the general public, and they can do things like, Okay, we're vaccinating, we're vaccinating all our players, and we're setting up to vaccination centers in each market or whatever it

is they can do. I think part of it, right, if they're gonna maybe if they're gonna jump the line they say, we're gonna send a vaccination centers at our arenas are somewhere in the city to where we can help disenfranchised communities get access to this thing exactly. And so so the realities is like I'm I'm asking George Hill, like, hey, dude, I need I need two months Okay, I need you for two months to do something that is still way better than the vast majority of Americans are dealing with,

and just suck it up. And then everything's gonna go more or less back to normal, not completely back to normal, but then we're gonna start having fans in Arena does and you can actually go to a restaurant because you're gonna be immune and they're gonna be all of these different things that are going to that are going to get better and and so and and to me, that's where it gets so frustrating with their attitudes about this, because it's like, this is for the players who actually

went through the bubble where it was like ninety two days or something like that, where they were in the in the bubble, Like this is a way, way, way easier version of that, and you've got guys, and you've got guys complaining. It's it's just I'm and I'm pretty sure George Hills on the four year, seventy million dollar contracts, so it's like he's not underpaid by any stretch of the imagination. So I just it strikes me as a

really tone death. It strikes me as like like someone who just is really like lacks self awareness and and honestly, like, because here's the thing, dude, Like, hey George, it does suck, and it does suck that you can't go see your family, but like the reality is is that something that literally everyone is dealing with. I'm a single person who's looking at their current life circumstances and doesn't think, oh, this kind of sucks. I wish you would go back to normal.

You know, I haven't really seen my parents are hung out with my parents in six months and my parents are like incredibly poor important people in my life. Well I've been able to is like go to their front yard and sit outside and talk to them with a mask on for like yeah, it's it's it is not ideal,

Like it isn't. And Georgio, by all accounts is like a really good dude, like was huge part of the protests in the bubble and like it could be like a community organizer of some type and somebody who like

really puts meaningful action behind like his words. Right, Um, So, like I don't want to come down on like Georgio like he's a bad person, but I think it's I think really what it is, it's really hard to see the forest through the trees right now, right like the end is somewhat near at least, like we should be able to return to normal life, hopefully by like late spring, early summer, something relatively normal. You know. I don't know how long it will type for things that be actually

normal again. Maybe never again. Um but like the end is near, like you'r hand, it's gonna be a couple of months where it's still gonna really suck, and they're not in a situation that anybody else isn't right now, and their situation is mostly better. Um So I think, like I touched on earlier with Kyrie, it is just it is like I understand where they're coming from. I really do, because it does suck. But you're not gonna get sympathy from most people. And that's the reality of

the situation. You Like, you're asking people who are making like way less money than you and have access to way shitty you're health care than you do, to like to feel sympathetic for you. Like it's like, dude, I'm just I got my own stuff going on right now, man, Like I just all I want for the next couple of months is to make sure my mom doesn't get COVID because if she does, it's not gonna end well. Like and that's really that. I think about that every

single day, every single day. And you know, we have my parents have good health care. But who knows if if she's in a position to where the hospitals are impacted right now in southern California, Like if she has to go to the hospital, maybe she doesn't even get a bed. And if you're an NBA athlete, you can probably get your your your mom, your dad, whoever a bet is, sometimes you can get him the correct care. Like It's just I don't know, it's a situation for anybody.

But the complaining is not going to guard any sympathy from almost anybody in the country unless around Twitter apparently. Sure, yeah, exactly for sure. And and and for the record, I don't want to I'm not coming down on George Hill as a person. I think that's something that gets glossed over really often with these uh um, with all of this

discourse that takes place on Twitter. Like here's the thing, dude, Like, like sports media and talking about sports is all about a combination of criticism in praise, and it's pretty much down the middle, because in a world where we only said nice things about people, there'll be nothing to talk about. And and it's kind of a harsh reality of the business.

Like and it's like if I, you know, randomly, by some fluke chance, got offered a contract tomorrow to play for the Phoenix Suns, I would understand when I signed on the dotted line, Like, hey, this comes with criticism from media and fans, but like that's just that's just the reality of what the job, why you're making all the money. It's part of what you're making all that money percent sure, Like it's it's it's the reality of

the business. And like, and uh, where where I draw the line is when people do really get into character stuff and and I really have I avoid that, Like it is very rare for me to bring up someone's character, you know, as as part of a larger discussion about who they are as a person. A lot of times I'm just I'm I'm criticizing a specific thing that they did.

George Hill, by all accounts, is an amazing guy, and I particularly like him because he's the kind of guy who shows up two games and his team sweats, and it just reminds me of the guy from college who like just always wore his college gear everywhere he went, never really dressed up like that. That to me is like the old fashioned hooper. Just that was me too, Like the old fashioned hooper, the guy that's like, I'm here to play basketball, man, That's what I love to do.

It's what I want to do, you know at all exactly that I I love George lais a player. I'm criticizing him for this one thing that he said, and it bothers me that on Twitter. It's like it's like it's like I said, there's a cycle. It's a vicious cycle of like someone does something, whether it's misses a key shot in the game or says something off the

court that's not super smart. You know, some people criticize him, and then this army and people jump on you the other way around, and then it becomes this thing where we're like criticizing them as people. It's like, no, that's not what we're saying here, Like we're we exist. Let's acknowledge the reality of what are are are not our job,

but our hobby is here, We're we're talking about sports. Like, dude, if you and I got out here and just said nice things about everybody would be the most boring podcast in history, really easily. The thing about Twitter is everything gets taken to the nth degree. Right, you say one bad thing about a guy and maybe the way he's acting, and it's like, oh, you think he's a terrible person,

and that makes you a terrible person. It's like no, and it's look, bring it back to my stepf career conversation. This is a microcosm of it all. I said, look, he might be declining. Maybe I'm seeing some things that might be indicating that, and people took that as, oh, you think he's washed? Do you think he sucks? Now? Like, no, maybe he's not a top three player in the league.

Maybe he's only top ten. Right, It's just, for whatever reason, the way that the conversation happens kind of organically on Twitter, it makes people just make the most ridiculous conclusions of all time. They just draw the most absurd things. And I think maybe because it's fun to point fingers and and call people names and whatever. But yeah, it's just it's the nature of Twitter, and it's always gonna be

like that as long as I'm on that platform. So for sure, Well before I let you out of here, I'm gonna nail you down on a prediction for U Phil for Brooklyn. What do you think is gonna happen? I kind of touched on it earlier. I think they're gonna beat the crap out of bad teams, Like they're just gonna they're gonna score a hundred and thirty points and they're gonna run up the score and it's gonna look amazing and people are gonna be like, oh my god,

can anybody beat this team. They're gonna run through the East and win the championship. I think they probably end up losing in like the second round of the Eastern Conference finals, depending on the matchup, just because they're not

gonna get enough stops. They're just not going to it unless, like we said, there's always possibility we get that outlier season defensively from all three of their superstars, right, if they all commit to it, then yeah, I could see them easily going to the to the finals and winning the title, even because there is so much offensive talent there.

But it would take something that isn't the norm from all three of them and putting three guys who have never really committed on that end truly, and putting them on the same team, I don't see how that's a recipe for success at all. So my my prediction is similar. I believe that they would lose, probably in Eastern Conference finals, but possibly in the second round. And the reason is

really simple. In addition to them not really being able to defend, I think they're going to be an offense that is easy to stagnate when you're a good defense.

So if I'm Brooklyn, if I'm silly, if I'm Boston, any sort of like good switchy defense that's got a lot of wings that can throw it, that they can throw at people, they're going to be able to stagnate that offense and turn it into an isolation fest so fast and while those it'll require unbelievable performances from those guys to win some of these games, and uh, and

I just don't think it'll be enough. I think, like I think that in those scenarios, when you stagnate Brooklyn and they start missing shots then and then and then then on the other end, they're not defending at a super high level, I think they're gonna be a team that's really susceptible the big runs, and they really are at this point like even a crazier concoction version of the of the Clippers in the sense that like they

kind of lack of basketball like you. Overall, they're gonna be easy to stagnate and force them into taking a lot of difficult shots over contests, and then they're gonna have a weird kind of like mentality mix that could end up leading to some problems later on. So I'm with you. I think I think you and I are on the same page. I think they're less dangerous now than they were before the trade. Yeah, I agree. So before I let you out of here, so um uh

to all of you guys have been listening. Uh, Tommy's gonna be joining us once a week moving forward, I want to kind of like find a unique balance, Like I don't want to go all in on hot taking league wide stuff, but I also don't want to go all in on just really nerdy basketball analysis. I wanted to be kind of like a combination of the two, and it's one of the things that we're gonna be working on today. We were supposed to dive into the Pacers, the Bucks, and the suns. I would imagine we'll do

them as well as some other teams next week. But that's the idea, and we're gonna kind of you know, I really appreciate the feedback from those of you who have messaged me privately and for those of you have messaged us on Twitter. Like we're trying to build something here. We wanted to be something that you guys like and that you come back to to listen. I have been

so amazed. I think we've had over a thousand listeners on every single one of these that we done, and uh podcast downloads in the several hundreds, and and I've I've been really amazed at how this has gone. But we wanted to grow. So we wanted to be something that you guys like. Like I said, it would be a combination of of of different types of things and

never too much of one thing. I'd love for you and I to start digging a little bit into some stuff that's not basketball related at some point, not too much you want to stick to your to your to your you know, your your passion, but something that will will dive into. But I'm really excited to see where this goes. Definitely, man, no same same here. Give us feedback. Anybody who's listening right now, give us feedback. I'm more than open to criticism. I'm more than willing to me

I'm wrong or I'm dumb. Whatever. Tell me that I'm dumb, honestly, Like, tell me and then tell me what I can do better. This is really fun. This is I love basketball, it's my hobby. It's been my passion for a long time. I'm really excited to like dive into it in a fashion that isn't Twitter and you know, something that's a little bit more long form and where we can sit here and talk about stuff for an hour an hour and a half. So yeah, it's been fun. I'm excited

to keep doing these. Just give us as much feedback as possible, because I think we're gonna be at the doll But alright, man, have a good weekend. I am going skiing tomorrow, so we'll not be back until Monday. But I would imagine you and I will be recording something on Tuesday as usual. But I hope you all have a great weekend and we'll see you next week. Al Right, guys, Thanks Jason,