Episode 15: Warriors Comeback, Nets Relapse, Dominant Lakers and more with Tommy Gunn @TGunn21

a disappointing moment when I got on the scale. I talked about this a little bit of my last podcast. My mom's a really good cook, and I went completely out of control and got up to two thirty one, which is about eleven pounds more than I would like to be. Um. But I think that's that's why New Year's resolutions are there. She can get over it. I haven't even weighed myself. I haven't even stepped on the scale.

I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna give myself a couple of weeks to work out and say we're on Matt.

So Uh. First of all, as you guys have probably noticed, Tommy has been on often and uh My, my format that I'm hoping to shoot for here at least for the first part of the season is I'll have my more Lakers focused podcasts well where I'll have my Laker guys come on you you guys have met some of them, Venet and Raj and I'm hoping to have Jason Maples on here in the next couple of weeks, and then I have hope to have some podcasts more in this format where we talked about the rest of the league

and and Tommy for the meantime is going to be joining me for those. Um. I really appreciate his perspective and he's fun and he's entertaining and he's not afraid to say anything, uh the crazy, but at the same time, he believes it, which is all that really matters. And uh and it gives it gives us some good content. So we're gonna talk about the Warriors to start, obviously on account of everything that's happened the last couple of days.

Um Uh that said, before we get started, I do want to say something that just in defense of Tommy and I for a second, because you know, both of us have caught some crap over the last couple of days for observations that we've made. And I want to put emphasis on the word observations, because these weren't predictions or hoping on someone's downfall or slander or anything along

those lines. Tommy made an observation that over the last three seasons and a time spanning about twenty games or so, that Steph hadn't been shooting well, and he was also observing that he's a shorter guard who is in his that he's thirty two years old, and all he was saying was I hope this isn't a sign that he's slowing down. There was no uh, there was no hope for his downfall. There wasn't anything negative there. And then

for me, the same exact thing. I'm not a Steph fan or a Warriors fan, but I do want them to be good. I want them if it were up to me, they'd play in the Western Conference Finals against the Lakers. Would be rooting for the Lakers. Yeah, but I want them to be good because it's better for the league, and I'm a basketball fan. All I pointed out after five games was that they were the worst team in the league. And that wasn't Again, that wasn't a you know, Warriors are trash, you know they suck.

It was it was a It was it was based on evidence. Statistically speaking, they had been outscored more than any team in the entire league. Literally they were at the bottom. And I was just saying, this isn't a oh, we need step to get better. Oh we need you know, Steve Kurt to be better, we need Draymond back. It was we need everything to change. We literally need every single thing on the roster, every single player, every single

person on the staff, to be better. And because they were that bad, and that was all I was pointing out. And as it turned out, the last couple of games, everything has been better. Um, and so we're gonna talk about today today, and we're gonna talk about you know what from that, it projects to continue to be better for the rest of the season and what they're realistic goals are for the year. But I just think it's important understand that, you know, Tommy and I were not

We're not out here just trolling people. We're we're we're talking about basketball, And the right way to talk about basketball, in my opinion, is to respond to information, and these were pieces of Infra nation that we got and we've made observations and some people got upset, some people rubbed it in our face, and you know what, we're actually stoked and happy that this is going the way that it's going. And I hope that people can kind of

see past that and understand where we're coming from. On that note, Tommy, tell me what you think about what Steph did over the last couple of days. So to start to kind of piggyback off your your general point, I'm a fan of the game of basketball before anything else, right. I I fell in love with the game of basketball. I didn't fall in love with the game because of anyone player or anyone thing. I love that. I love

basketball as long as I can remember. So when I see new information like you're pointing at, I try to analyze that as honestly as possible. And the way Twitter operates, some people aren't gonna like that, right, especially because I'm part of Warriors Twitter and I am a huge step Curry fan. I'm wearing it Steph Curry. David's in Jersey right now. I own tons of Warriors World gear. I

buy stuff from him all the time. I bought new stuff from sheet yesterday, but I was trying to be honest with what I was seeing, and look, I was wrong. I was wrong. My point the whole time was to hold step Curry to the standard of Steph Curry, which is one of the three best players in the league since two thousand fourteen. And some of the stuff I had seen was telling you, telling me, Okay, he still might be a top ten guy. He still might be top eight, but I don't know if he's top three anymore.

And if he isn't top three, then they probably don't have a title in their future unless they make some big trade. Now. If he plays like he did in the second half against Chicago, if he plays like he did against the Pistons, and then not in the first Portland's game, but the obviously the sixty two point explosion, and then how he played last night, he's still a top three player in the league. If he can get to that level consistently against the best competition, he is

still one of the best three players in the league. Um, and I think what we've seen is um a shift not only in in Cerve's scheme where he is trying to get step going downhill more off pick and roll. He's simplifying their actions. He's doing some simple horn stuff, or they're getting a guy coming off step and now steps getting a down screen. He's working up a dribble handoff or a curl, really simple stuff to just get

him the ball and spot where he likes it. But it's also been a shift in mentality from steph Um. Kevin O'Connor wrote an article. I believe it was right

after his sixty two point game. Before that sixty two point games, step had been touching the ball thirty one times per thirty six minutes in the half court, which was the lowest rate since Mark Jackson was the head coach UM and then in his sixty two point game he touched it eighty eight times in total, forty four times in the half court and possess the ball for six and a half minutes um total, which is about in line with his two thousand and fifteen sixteen Unionitis

m B MVP season. And the biggest difference that I saw was, instead of when he would get a switch against kind of a bigger wing or a big man or a guy who can basically take off the dribble, Robert Covington and Marvin Bagley, guys like that. Early in the season, when he was getting those switches against the bucks of the nets, he was getting off the ball,

and he's trying to do all of his off ball stuff. Cut, find, find a curl, find a fade, and it just wasn't working because he didn't have the teammates to find find him in those spots. But what he started doing is, Okay, I have these guys on an island. I'm just gonna go at him. I'm gonna go to my step back, I'm gonna try to get to the rim. I'm gonna to my floater game, I'm gonna get to the mid range a little bit. And he's really it's been a

shift in his mentality too. And I think my biggest reason for concerned was I didn't see him doing that enough, and this team needs that um and he's been much much more willing to do that, and he's gonna have to keep that mentality all year. The biggest thing in sam a spending our reports this all the time, it's health.

If he can stay healthy and do this for the entire year, they're gonna be I still think one of the better teams in the West come playoff time, and to go into more general warrior stuff, a lot of that comes down to Draymond Green. I was I was a little bit worried about Step to start the year, and I still thought he was a top ten guy. I was, like I said, I was worried about him being top three, but I knew once Draymond came back, everything was going to be basically fine. But I've said

this a couple of times now. When teams in the NBA don't have their second best player, they generally look like crap. If you're the Lakers, that might not be true if you're the Bucks, if you're the Nets, maybe, But for the most part, if you don't have your second best guy, you're gonna look like a bad team most of the time. Draymond Green, for all of his warts, is their second best player. He's shooting thirteen percent from the field right now, and he is still their second

best player. He is one of the most impactful players without scoring that I've ever seen in my entire life. And what he does is he relieves step of playmaking duties and he is I still think probably the best defender in the NBA, and the only other guy that would have an argument is Anthony Davis. Everything makes more sense from Draymon is on the floor, Kelly Ubrey is now just a play finisher, Andrew Wiggins has less on his plate um. Any of the other secondary or tertiary

guys have less on their point. I thought this team would be under five hundred for the first fifteen to twenty games. With how good they've looked the last two games, they might be better than that. Fifteen to twenty games in. They have a tough seven game stretch coming up, and I do want to see how step looks against some of the better defenses in the league, because for as great as he was, those teams are bad defenses. Portland's and sacrament or two of the worst defenses in the league.

If you and I have similar feelings about how bad Portland is, Portland's, like I said a couple of weeks ago, they had one of the most overrated off seasons in recent memory. It's That's still does look really really good against the Clippers and the Lakers for the most part. Then I'm all in on this team. I don't think no one would really scare me in a playoff series besides the Lakers and the Clippers, and that would be it. Um Denver. We'll talk about them later, but they have

their own wards. Phoenix is a really good team. I do really like Phoenix, But in terms of a playoff series, they the Warriors would still have the best player on the floor and Draymond is still one of the most impactful guys in the league. So moving forward, as long as step keeps being the guy that we've seen the last week and a half, they're gonna be a damn good team. They're gonna be one of the better teams

in the West as long as Raymond and him stay healthy. Yeah, So when it comes to the Warriors, so we'll start, let's start with the team in general here. So when it when it comes to the Warriors and what I project for them for the rest of the year, which again again is just an observation based you know, prediction. It's not me, you know, making some sweeping declaration. And one of the other crazy things is like being in the business of trying to make predictions and sports is

just insanity. Like sports, If sports were were more predictable than they are, they'd be less entertaining. There's a professional sports gamblers. Colin Coward always says a professional sports gambler is only right fifty percent of the time. So the point being like, we were making guesses, but we could very well be wrong, and we'll just respond as information comes. I'm okay with being wrong. What's hard to do it.

Once I started tweeting more about basketball, I accepted the fact that I'm gonna be wrong a lot of the times. It's just it's a reality of the situation. And I'm not gonna sit here and be hard at it and double down when I'm wrong. I'm more than willing to admit it, exactly. And that's what bothers me, because the people that are in your mentions always being you know, super uh, you know, crazy in your face about the mistakes you've made. They've made just as many the stupid

you know, fan based predictions in their own time. But anyway, so, you know, but coming into that two game, Coming into that second game against Portland was when they had dropped

to thirty in the league and net rating. All I pointed out was, hey, you know, in the Western Conference, given the amount of talent you have to go through on a daily basis, it's gonna be extremely difficult for you to to win enough games to to to really compete, and especially with the way that the playoff structure is, and uh, you know, essentially, like even if you fall into that eleven to fourteen range, the guys that are on the fringe of the playoffs trying to fight into

that tent spot for the play and you're still dealing with teams like like New Orleans and Sacramento and San Antonio, teams that you know aren't great teams, but they're teams that have a decent amount of talent and if you don't bring a winning formula to against them, you're you're gonna get beat. And all of those teams have impressive wins so far this season, you know, like the New Orleans has beat you know, Toronto a few times, and

and Sacramento has had a couple of impressive wins. So the point being, like, I think Sacareno was the only team to beat Phoenix in the first five games of the season. So the point being is like it's it's it's really hard to win games in the NBA, and the Warriors looked like they were the worst team in

the league. Now after what happened in the last two games where they you know that the first game was a little sketchy against Portland because it required this unbelievable performance by Steph Curry and they didn't defend particularly well. Their offensive rating in their defensive writing in that game was about a one fift team, which is pretty bad. Writing was like, but that's not gonna happen. And then last night against Sacramento, they played a team that you know,

there's a little bit of a backstory. They're they're kind of unraveling behind the scenes and they're kind of there's some sort of weird like high school esque mutiny going on where all the parents are getting involved. It's really happening with Marvin Bagley. Does anybody even really know? I don't know, but it's a weird thing. It's a weird thing. It's a weird thing going on there. And quite frankly, like like, it was an impressive win because they defended

extremely well that game and they scored at will. On the other end, they were able to rest their starters in the fourth quarter. That was all great. They in the last two games they have solutely flipped the script. But it was it's important to acknowledge that two nights prior against Portlands they got killed and there is some data that has come out. Mark Stein was talking about that this morning, that teams in these baseball series that

have performed really poorly in that second night. And then uh, and then also, you know, we just talked about Sacramentos issue. So here's the question. You know, if you if you ask me right now what I'm thinking. I'm thinking, well, there's no question now that they can at very at the very least be in that play in stretch and

that's seven to ten seed area. They have proven that there's enough talent on the roster and that Steph and Draymond and Kerr are good enough, the three of them, with their winning pedigree and what they bring to the table to get into that zone. However, they have two games against Clippers coming up, they play the Lakers, they play Sons, they play the Nuggets, they play the Pacers. It is very possible, not not entirely unlikely, that they could go one in six in the next seven games.

They could go like if they went oh in seven, it would be shocking, but it would just mean that, like like the Warriors, right now have the twenty four net rating in the league. Vegas is probably going to have them as an underdog and a lot of these games they might they might have a one They might be a one point favorite against the Pacers, maybe maybe against the Nuggets. They had to rout out to. Toronto is really struggled to start the year. So they'll probably

be a favorite against Toronto. Yeah, and they'll be a favorite against Toronto. But like you're talking about, you're literally talking about a stretch here where they could very easily at the end of it be what you know, five and ten or six and nine or whatever it is

they could be. So the point is is, like with the that's the nature of this schedule, and that is why you know, when Vegas put out their win totals to start the season, all of these teams, like even the best teams in the league, were predicted to be at like a fifty five win pace and not a sixty win pace because Vegas just understood the night in and night out schedule in this year's NBA season is going to be insane, and the same goes for the

Eastern Conference. There's just a lot of talent in the league right now and none of the really good teams are really all that good. And and so from from from that same point, what I would say is, like I have, I always say, be careful of regular season

victory laps because you can be humbled extremely fast. And the example I'd give you is last year or two years ago when region Rondo made that game winning buzzer beater in Boston for the Lakers, and everybody was talking about how I think it was their first game back after the All Star break or it was right before the All Star break or something like that, and everyone was talking about how this was what was going to turn things around. Lebron is back. You know, they just

made this game winner. Everything's good, but people forgot that, like, you know, Okay, Lonzo balls out, so they actually have like almost no talent in the backcourt and no non Lebron basket creation, and they're still got awful at the center position. So there's still just a bad basketball team. And then what do you know, for the next month

and a half, they just sucked. And then as soon as Brandon Ingram went down, they became literally one of the least talented teams in league, and they just got killed every night. So the point is is like, like, this is a long road ahead. Steph has to stay healthy. All these guys gotta keep playing better. You know, Draymond's at an age where he's not exactly the most reliable I physically in the world. It could go south quickly, and so like for the people that are talking reckless,

understand it's a marathon, not a sprint. This is good news. It shows what they can be, but there's a long way to go, absolutely, and I'm with you on all of those things. I'm assuming let's assume relatively good health, we get sixty five Stepan Draymond games or so. These guys are gonna keep improving. They have one of the newest rosters in the league in terms of the talent they're integrating with Stephan Draymond and guys they've had in

the past. But Stephen Draymond have basically played with none of these guys before, at least not in important games. So this team is going to continue to get better. There is talent on the roster, and they were shooting historically bad to start this season, not just Kelly Huber, who literally has the worst three point shooting start, considering

a minimum number of attempts in NBA history. UM, by the numbers, the worst start ever and that's a guy who shot on five to six attempts a game last season. So it's there where he can shoot. Midoun was predictable and in the last podcast, I shared a personal story like was a text bookcase of a role player shoved into a new role. That kind of psyched him out a little bit. And he was inevitably in the start

making shots, contract contract year. He knows he's on a kind of a national stage for maybe really the first time in his career. He knows there's being a lot expected of him, especially because they paid eighty million dollars in luxury tax to bring him in. UM, so he knew there was a lot on his plate. But the regression to the mean was expected. The first four games. I want to say, and uh my guy Bald has put this out on Twitter. UM a couple days ago,

the Warriors were underperforming. There their shot expectation based on you know, the shots. They were getting a twenty five points a game, literally twenty five points games, so it things couldn't have gotten worse. UM, we're seeing really good. I think they're up to around two or three below points below their shot expectation now, so that they're coming back, they're regressing to the mean. Basically, Um Wiggins has been

secretly really good the last five games. He still has his Andrew Wiggins moments where he's taking terrible eighteen footers with eighteen seconds on the shop cloth, but that's just kind of the expectation. At this point. His playmaking has release started a flashlight like I expected it too before the year. Um getting Draymond back, He's defend. He's defending probably more consistently than I've ever seen him defend, at

least in terms of effort. He still makes some bone headed mistakes, um or he will be lack some possessions, but he's made more chase down plays where he's you know, getting a steal from behind or getting a block from behind that I think I've ever seen for like a full season in his entire career. Just through these first seven or eight games, Um, he's defending with energy, He's playing with energy. He's actually finding people. He's finding three

point shooters all over the floor. It's just a matter of whether they can start making more of those. Um Ubre obviously has had a terrible start offensively, but I've really liked his point of attack defense and with Draymond back, he's actually a really good week side rim protector. Um. He's been coming over and contesting shots, changing shots, getting blocks from the weak side. UM, and those guys really really thrived with Draymond this It's similar to Iguadala or

Durant in years past, those long athletic wings. If you put those guys around Draymond, He's going to cover up so many mistakes that they can just kind of come over and be difference makers and get deplections. Wiseman is obviously a rookie and he still has a lot of rookie moments. But if I was putting a big man next to any person in the NBA, I would want

it to be Draymond Green. Right, If you're putting a young big man who has a lot to learn about the game, just in terms of feel and positioning and everything of that nature, there is no better person than Draymond Green. He's the best teacher at that. So I'm still, I mean, I'm still very optimistic on this team ceiling and and it will take a lot to go right.

Don't get me wrong, They still need more shooting. They probably with Marquis Chris up for three months, they will probably need another big body at some point because Cavon Looney has been not great to start this season. He looks even slower than he has in the past, which I didn't think was physically possible, but he actually is slower now than he was in twenty nine. So they're probably going to be at least one more big man body.

I hope they can get some shooting near the deadline or on the buy out market, because both those things are needed. If they can do that, Like I said, I I still think this team has a chance to be really, really good, but it will take a lot of things going right, and it will take the health of obviously step In Draymon. Either one of those guys goes down, it all goes in the tank. Yeah, we

talked about that a lot before the season. Health is going to be such an important thing for them because they just they literally won't be able to survive it. And it's it comes down to their two biggest weaknesses in my opinion, which is because I actually do think that Ubra and Wiggans are gonna be fine. Wings. They're they're not gonna be you know, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard or Jayson Tatum and Jalen Brown. But they don't need them to be because of what you know Draymond

and Steph bring to the table. But they're good, serviceable wings. They won't be they won't be hemorrhaging points on both ends and those matchups, they'll be able to hold their own. So where where I worry about them is, you know, like I really don't think like as I am super stoked about Wiseman, and you should be if you're a Warrior's fan too, that dudes, that dude's an All Star

in the making. That be excited, yes, but we're years away from that, and he's gonna get absolutely eaten alive by Anthony Davis and by Nicola Yo Kitchen all of the centers in the league. He's not a he's not a winning NBA player right now. He'll help you in this regular season and matchups, but he's not that guy yet. So there, they have a legitimate weakness in the front court after Draymond Green, and they have a legitimate weakness

in overall playmaking after Steph Curry. And Draymond Green, And so as a result of that, if either of them go down for any extensive stretch of the season, it's just gonna be really hard for them to win games. And and also it also worries me in the case of like back to backs in three games and four nights and things along those lines, if they ever have to rest either of them, it's hard to imagine a scenario where they can realistically compete replacing what they have

to do night tonight to win. It's very very similar, but it's very very similar to the two thousand eighteen calves. The beauty of it was is Lebron played eighty two games, and so that's that's kind of what you need, um out of these two guys is for that. I was literally thinking about that as we were going into the game last night, Like, okay, Step drops sixty two. He's fatigued, it's a back to back, and he's got a guard Deer and Fox and and all of these other really quick.

You know, Buddy hill All, I think Buddy hild it out, but Flight Haliburton was out. He did Blight Haliburt was out the trade. So anyway, like like I remember sitting there thinking like, I wonder if the step will rest and it's like they can't rest him, Like if they rest him, they might as well forfeit the game. They literally can't win without him as a result of the way that this roster came, And I think I think

that's the reason for him putting on the size. As much as I kind of criticized that, I think some of the added size is to take the pound because he knew he knew he's gonna get beat up this year basically, and he actually I was surprised by how spry he looked last night because it was the second night of a back to back and he scored sixty two points and had a ton of output. He shot nineteen three throws in that first game of the back to back, and that's the most he's ever shot in

his career. So I was actually expecting him to maybe look a little bit tired, but he looked more spry than he than I thought he would. So hopefully that added size does help him stay a little bit healthier through the regular season, because they're gonna need they need at least sixty five games from him, because if he misses seven games they're winning one or two at absolute most,

and they're probably losing all seven. And so the last thing I want to talking about with the Warriors is is Steph Curry himself in the way that he's been playing, because I want to make a point that I think is important because there's a lot of talk about, you know, Steph Curry losing a step and you and I have talked a little bit about this, uh directly with each other, and you know, this is the example that I want to give because I think Lebron actually is is a

perfect example of how of a point that I have constantly made about the NBA, which is that about basketball in general, which is that you know, as you get into your thirties, there's like a transition that takes place mentally in your game. And so, for instance, I'm a huge Lebron James fan. I absolutely think Lebron James is

the best player in the world right now. That said, Lebron has literally his effective field goal percentage has literally dropped every single season since two thousand, seventeen, two thousand, seen eighteen nine. So five consecutive is the fifth consecutive season where his efficiency is dropping, and that doesn't mean he's becoming a worse basketball player necessarily. I would argue he's as good now as he was in two thousand,

seventeen eighteen, but there's a transition taking place. He is becoming less effective as a scorer necessarily, and specific matchups, he's not getting the same separation. He's not the same you know, physical freak that he was. But he's so much smarter than he used to be in his ability to win basketball games, which is a combination of all these different factors involving leadership and and like controlling the flow of a game, passing ability, like all of these

different little intricacies of basketball. He's so much better at now that even though he's not scoring at the same efficient clip, he's actually as effective, if not more effective, as a winner now than he was in the past. And so I feel the same way about Steph Curry. When I watched him play, I don't feel like he's getting the same separation that he did in two thousand sixteen.

That's just my opinion. That said, I think Steph is every bit as good now, if not better than he was in two thousand sixteen, because I don't think two thousand twenty Steph Curry lets the two thousand and sixteen finals slip away. I think he's just a better winner. I think he understands different possessions that are pivotal in different games, and how it can swing a series, and and I and and just in general, how to build a winning culture and all those different things like that.

Like he is every bit as good now as he ever has been. Now there will be a point where the physical slips too far and he actually does begin to slip. And the same goes for Lebron. I don't

think we're there with either guy. But like here's I told you in the in the direct message yesterday that I thought that Steph Curry might finish the season around thirty seven thirty eight percent from three And I really do think that, just by virtue of the fact that his shot quality this year is going to be lower than it has been because he doesn't have Clay taking as much attention off of him. And then I also think that he's slowing down a little bit. And then

then there's a high volume thing. Just by virtue of the way the team is built, he's going to have to be more aggressive. But if Steph Curry drops to thirty eight percent from three. I don't think that means he's he's on the back end of the slope. I

think that's just a product of circumstance. And I would leave that the makes that are in that thirty eight percent would be more impactful because he would be aggressive at different moments of the game than he used to be, and he would pick his spots a little bit better, and and and all of these different factors that lead

to winning basketball games. So I do I do think that, like, uh, it's important to monitor as we're as we're looking at like highlight tapes of of what Steph looks like as a player, that that's not the only thing he's that that that's not the only thing to track in terms of how good he is as a player right now. Yeah, And I mean that was the reason for a lot of my skepticism, right is less space on particularly dribble moves, drible sequences where he's freeing himself for his step back

or his crossover into his threes. Now it has looked better than it has probably in a long time, um these last three or four games, and a lot of this might have been virtue of not having to do

it anymore. But a lot of my concern was based on, Okay, his his shot profile has actually flipped on his head compared to fifteen sixteen, Right, fifteen sixteen, like sixty percent of his threes or so, we're unassisted versus present being assisted by eighteen nineteen that had flipped exactly now assistant were now unassisted. Now. Was that a product of playing next to Kevin Durant and having to share more possessions and working more off ball so Katie can have the

ball more? Yeah? Absolutely, But I also thought that was a product of him losing a half step as as a guy with the ball, and maybe his release being slightly slower because he's not twenty seven and his apt

at his absolute physical peak anymore. Now, what he's shown the last four games have made me very hopeful for you know, maybe he still is that guy off the dribble um, but he does seem a lot of this stuff you're pointing to, with winning basketball and him not letting the finals slip away, and just being in general

a better decision maker, a more conscious decision maker. Part of what made Steph Curry so special was his recklessness, Right early in his career, it was how reckless his shot selection was and how scared defenses were any time he had the ball. And they still are, don't get me wrong, they absolutely still are. But there are moments where he'll step back and I think, oh, he has space for a shot, and he doesn't quite shoot it. Now.

Is that him just searching for a better shot. Is that him not trusting his step back quite as much because he hasn't done it as much, or because his release isn't quite as quick, meaning he's going from the absolute quickest release of all time to maybe just one of the quicker releases of all time. Once again, people aren't understanding what I'm saying. On the margins. It's all about who he was as his former self, not you know, compared to Damian Lillard. He's still a better player than

Damian Lillard. I think everybody knows that after the last four quour or five games, point being, I think a lot of the stuff you're staying is correct. He definitely manages a game better now, um, and that is the reason to be optimistic. But he also can't lose the recklessness that he once played with. It's a very very fine line to walk between saying hey, I'm gonna take I'm gonna constantly hunt for shots, and you know what, there's times where I gotta manage the game a little

bit better. And I think he absolutely has improved it that and I think we've seen it the last four to five games. Now, what does it look like against the Clippers and Lakers? Another big test? And no, I'm not saying his legacy is on the line, That's not what I'm saying at all. I want to see how it looks this year against some of the best defenses

in the league. And what that will tell me is is this team actually ready to be a Western Conference playoff semi contender where they can have a puncher's chance against anybody, but they're not favored against the best teams in the league. That's what this next week and a half will tell me of games, these next seven games, That's what I'm looking for. How good is this team against some of the better teams in the league, because to start the year they looked like an absolute train wreck.

M That's an interesting point you brought up about his recklessness. I haven't really thought about that because he he doesn't like sometimes him being a little too tempered could be a bad thing. And see what you're saying. One last thing I want to touch on with Steff before we that you just reminded me of before we move on

to the nets. So, like this became a big thing when Ben bend Trick or Detrick or ever you pronounced his last name, was tweeting about Steff the other day and he said a bunch of stuff that I didn't agree with, but I did think he brought up one thing that I thought that I think is interesting and I wish people were a little bit more open minded on because, uh, like a great example would be like

like Michael Vick. You know, Michael v was. It was a market inefficiency in the sense that teams had no idea how to deal with the mobile quarterback like him. He was. He would never be as effective right now because teams are so much more set up. They've they've downsized their linebackers, they've they've built defensive schemes where you know, a linebacker is completely keyed in on the quarterback the

entire time, and they they found ways. They grew into a league that had learned how to better deal with someone like Mike Vick, and that doesn't mean that Mike Vick is a lesser quarterback. And to me, it's a compliment to Mike, it's a it's a sign that he was ahead of his time and in many ways a genius.

And I feel the same way about Steph, like I think it's okay to admit that the way that teams guard step now is different than the way team's guarded Steff in two thousand fifteen and two thousand sixteen, and the fact that they had no idea how to guard him helped him win basketball games. It's a fact you

can't like. There's no point in lying about it. In two thousand sixteen, he was crossing half court against the Oklahoma City Thunder on a clutch possession with the game on the line, unguarded and stepping into a thirty ft three. Now they're literally like last night, Sacramento was trapping him in the back court. Okay, teams are guarding Steff different now than they used to, and many other guards have

copied him. Now, Dame and try Young are taking a lot of long threes off to dribble over over ball screens. That's something that you never used to see in the league except for when step did it, and now other guards around the league are doing it and as a result, defenses have adapted and learned how to better guard them.

That doesn't mean that Steff is a lesser player. It just means that he took advantage of a little bit of a market inefficiency there during that time period, and that's what allowed a six three guard who does not defend at the same level as as the super elite wings in the league to be maybe the best player

in the league. I don't think he was. I think he's the second best player, But to be in that conversation, he he was a genius who was ahead of his time, who found a hole in the NBA and exploited it to literally win a championship and then to win two more with Kevin Durant. It is a compliment to him. But I also think that, like Steph fans and Warrior fans are a little bit unrealistic about the realities of this staff experience, which has been that he's guarded differently

now than he used to be. And I think that that's okay to admit, and I don't think that that's an insult to Steph. Yeah, I mean, it's it's not an insult. I think that the pushback that I have with stuff like that is like, oh, he didn't revolutionize the game at all. It's like, no, he absolutely did, because whether three point or the three point rate was already going up in the league before STEPH really became stephteen. Teams are starting to take more threes, but it was

accelerated because of Steff. Revolutions are never one thing, right, It's a multitude of factors. So does the revolution still happen where teams are eventually taken you know again? Yeah? Probably, But does it happen within a three year period where the Warriors are shooting thirty threes a game and then the number one in attempts and then they're still shooting thirty threes a game three years later and they're like

twelfth in attempts. No, probably not. He accelerated everything. He made it happen a lot quicker than it was going to because what him and playoff these sleep proved is that you can be a jump shooting team and win a title. Now. I still think some of that stuff is misguided because good luck getting two of the five best shooters of all time right, and so our fund Bobby on Twitter always says this, the two thousand fifteen Warriors taught us the wrong list and jacking up a

bunch of threes isn't necessarily the way to go. You do have to shoot threes and volume now, because it's simple math. You have to shoot enough of them to be competitive. But at the same time, I don't think it's necessarily the way to go. Like I said, my push back to Ben would be, if you're gonna sit here and say that Steve Curry didn't revolutionize basketball, It's not just a three pointers. It's like you're talking about with Michael Vick. Now, teams have linebackers who are speedy

and can chase down speedy quarterbacks. Teams have gone to more switch oriented schemes because and guys who are switchable, because that's an easy way to stamp out threes. You're not. You can just show high on pick and rolls, you can switch curls, you can switch flares because we don't want this our opponent to get open threes. So I'm I'm fine with saying Steff has guarded different. He absolutely is. Teams have changed the way they've guarded him and it's

made his life harder. Right, that's what you're supposed to do with the best players in the week. But to sit here and act like the guy didn't revolutionize the game of basketball, I think it's a load of crap. Well, that's that's the thing that I think. That's where teach a cross the line. If I remember correctly, is I think he said that Alan Iverson had revolutionize of the game more than Steph did, or something like that. I remember me, like we're talking like corporal if we're talking

cultural impact, sure I'll hear that argumentation. Yeah, but if we're talking on court, it's not even close. Steph Curry. Steph Curry literally shaped the way that uh that all of these guards play basketball now, like literal generation of guards. Yeah, Like guys like Bradley Beale and Kemba Walker and Dame Lillard used to never take threes out of pick and roll, like against drop coverage. They would attack in and take

midrange shots. They would like that. There there's an entire element to the way that guards developed their skills now that is one based on what Steph Curry did. The idea that that that didn't revolutionize the game is insanity to me, and I think, but again, like that's the thing, like, you know, Steph's gonna go down at the end of the day as a top ten player all time. In my opinion, I think he's going to unless he suffers a catastrophic injury right now, in which case he's still

twelve at the lowest four like statistical production. Yeah, he'll be there exactly. And so he's gonna be up there, and he's gonna be the only short guy up there literally, So that that requires to me some crazy circumstances. And the crazy circumstance here is that he had to use his brain because he didn't have the physical uh you know, the physical part of it. And in his his he saw a hole in the game. Oh wait, no one guards anybody out here, like like if you watch the

two thirteen playoffs, you could see it coming. That's how he kind of started to do it. It was like, Okay, David Lee's out. I'm gonna shoot eight or nine threes a game, and six of them are gonna be off the dribble. The Spurs one of the greatest defensive teams of all time from you know, the year two thousand through through thousand sixteen had no idea what to do with him. Their responses, Okay, we're just gonna run him

up a bunch of screens. We're gonna bang them up, and and that's part of the reason why you had to get stronger. But he absolutely torched them in Game one of that series, and they came within a possession of winning the NBA Finals that year. You know, he dropped forty four and eleven on one of the best defensive teams of all time, maybe, and it's because he

found a market inefficiency. Yeah. Literally, coaches teach you growing up as you're playing basketball, like before staff what they would teach you like that it used to be part of like a drill that you would do where if it was a live dribble, you'd give space and if it was and if it was if it was a catch and shoot, you'd start in the shooting pocket like like on the catch. You'd be right up in his business.

As soon as he began any sort of dribble dribbling, you to meet space and you put hanging out like like you can't guard people like that anymore because guys will just shoot over the top of you. Like the game has literally changed the result of him, and I think it's it's foolish to to gloss over that. But you did bring up something interesting that I think is a perfect segue into the Nets. So, um, the Brooklyn Nets right now are tenth in offense, fourteenth and defense

eighth and net rating. Um, they're coming off of a couple of bad losses. Uh, there's there's this thing going on with Katie and Covid that we're not going to talk about. But he's going to be out for a little while, but he should be back. Yeah, he'll be he'll be back eventually. Um. Uh. They just had this game where Katie and uh and Kyrie both missed a crunch time jump shot, which we're gonna get to in

a second. But the big thing that I want to point to is is, like what you were talking about from Bobby, the comment that the two thousand fifteen Warriors taught us the wrong lesson, Because again, it's it's important to understand that, you know, the two thousand fifteen Warriors

were not a finesse team. They had the best defensive team in the league, defensive writing, the best defensive team in the league, and they had big physical defensive players like Draymond Green was a it was a physical player,

and Andre Guadala was a very physical player. Clay Thompson was an extremely gifted perimeter defender who was physical, and the way that he used his body to bump people off of their driving lines and forced them to shoot over the top, like literally, that was a incredible physical, incredible physical rim protector. Really off the bench, Harrison Barnes played the reason part of the reason why the deadline

up initially works because Harrison Barnes could guard format. He arted back Randall for a lot of that Memphis series and did just find against them they were a super super physical, hard nosed, tough team. And this is something we talked about before the season in our preview about about the Brooklyn in the sense that we thought that they were missing a lot of those dirty work type

of guys. And this is and I think, like ironically, this crunch time situation with Kyrie and Katie is such a great, uh microcosm of everything that I've been preaching for years, which is that basketball is about so much more than just elite isolation creation. That doesn't mean that it's not a very valuable skill it's right up there with all of with the skills that I always preach about, you know, defensive versatility and elite offensive creation for your

teammates and things along those lines. But it's funny because you know, everyone will boil it down to, oh, the Brooklyn Nets lost that game because Kyrie and Katie missed open jump shots that they were able to create out the dribble, and I and I completely disagree. You know, if you actually pull up you know, clutch numbers for superstar players in NBA history, they all shoot low percentages in runch Lebron's like high thirty. None of them, none

of them are None of them areket always shots. They're always have shots. And so that's why it's important to understand, like these basketball games are one in crunch time through like like good old fashioned rock fight basketball. That's literally how they're won. And if you allow yourself to get bullied physically on the other end of the floor, you're not gonna be able to get Katie enough looks for him to win on the other end. You've got to

be able to do all of those things. And that's what I loved about that Lakers team last year was like it was they they they were able to thrive in that environment when the game's really got into that uh, into that like absolute you know, ship show of a rock fight type of the reason they were like fifty six and oh or whatever when leading going into the fourth quarter exactly one game all year when they were leading going into the fourth quarters because they were an

absolutely elite defensive team exactly. And so what we're seeing with Brooklyn that I think is interesting is, you know, uh, their offense is gonna be fine. I have absolutely no doubt about that. The only thing that would concern me about them on the offensive end of the floor is they are a little bit reliant on jump shot making. And it's it's something, uh, you know, the Warriors were reliant on jump shot making in a lot of ways, but they were so good defensively that it was it

wasn't a problem. And my and that's my thing, is you need your defense to carry you during stretches when you're not making shots. And what's whereas you know, that's what makes the Lakers so scary is that they rely on a brand of offense that also involves some shot making.

But they're gonna get a great deal of shots right at the rim because of Lebron's physical ability to just bully people under the basket, and Anthony Davis who against like look against the my the Miami Heat double teamed amount of the post and he was unable to to post up. But he was so good at like just bullying people on the offensive glass and just getting tippins and all this other stuff. Like they were able to

generate this easy stuff that Brooklyn Nets team. Every basket they get is gonna be hard, especially when they get into the half court of the court of these playoffs series. That doesn't mean they can't win. I still think they have a really good chance to come out of the East, but that that those are the kinds of flaws that you and I pointed to you before the season. They don't defend well enough to carry them during stretches when they're not making jump shots, and they're really bad at

generating easy shots. They're really good at making difficult shots, but they're really bad at generating easy shots. So they have a tendency to be able to go cold. And the reality is is like like those two shots that Kyrie and Katie took at the end of that game, those are what we would consider high percentage shots for jump shots, but they aren't high percentage shots when you factor in historically how difficult it is in a really like slow down, bogged down, crunch time game to make

a pull up jump shot. Like all stars in NBA history have shot low percentages there because your legs are tired and you've got to use a lot of energy to get that separation, and it's just it's just difficult

to win games that way. It'll win your when you some games, but that there's a reason why that the nets have fallen off and have dipped below five hundred, and it's because they're relying too much on difficult shot making and not the bona fide proven ways to win games involving defense and being physical and generating easy shots. So I think everything you pointed to there is correct, and how all I add onto it is we don't spend enough time I think when discussing the NBA talking

about the relation between offensive and defensive rating. One of the reasons the Warriors were so good, kind of as you're pointing to, is they had this elite defense, and not only was it elite, it created turnovers and easy looks for a team that sometimes struggled to get easy looks.

They were a team that relied on jump shooting, and there were a team that sometimes in the half court struggled to get easy looks because their primary creator is a sixth three guard, right, so they're not creating a ton of rim attempts like a team like with Lebron and Anthony Davis. Is you said Brooklyn was seventh and offensive rating. I believe seventh or eighth right now offensive rating, And to me, that is directly related to them being

fourteen in defensive rating. You know why, because they're taking the ball out of the net a lot. The easiest way to get good looks is to either create a turnover or get the ball off a miss and run and create either wide open threes, wide open jump shots, or get to the rim in transition. They're not able to do that right now because they can't get enough

stops so quick. One quick note on on Brooklyn that I think you can piggyback onto is they actually Bobby Marks pointed this out on the wind Horse wind Horse podcast the other day, and then I started digging to

look at it. They they played a really bad Golden State Warriors team on opening night that couldn't score because they hadn't figured out their offense yet, and they played a Boston Celtics team that had lost their point guard, and and they're in their best perimeter playmaker and Gordon Hayward and literally we're relying on two really young wings who are scoring players and not creation players in their offense was really in shambles at that point in the season,

and and it bolstered their defensive rating. And I tweeted yesterday in their last five games they were twenty nine and defense in the league. The only team that was worse was Minnesota. So like they're they're they're not just bad. I know that that fourteen is a little bit misleading in the sense that they have really really let go of the rope on that end of the floor as of late. And if it's happened this early in the season,

that is a bad, bad, bad sign. If they're already twenty If you know, you said last five games or twenty nine and defensive rating, yeah, I'll find my make sure, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was that I mean. So yeah, I mean that that adds on to the point. That's why they've dropped a tenth and offensive rating because they are taking the ball out of the net so much.

I don't care how talented talented you are offensively, if you are always taking the ball out of the rim, you're gonna struggle to score, especially if you're relying on jump shots, because those are just it's just they're just tougher shots than getting to the rim. You know, the formula for winning is still getting as many rim attempts as possible. You the reason for spacing out to the three point line and shooting more threes is to get

more room attemps. That's the entire point. It's to give your superstar players more space to create more room attempts. Right there, looking at the Warriors model and saying this is the way to do it, shoot a bunch of threes. Like I pointed out earlier, I don't think it's necessarily the way to go now. To not go that route, you do have to get lucky and get Lebron James and Anthony Davis on the same team, and that's the

way you can get a ton of rim attempts. But that is still the best formula formula for winning a championship, playing high level defensive basketball, top five, top ten level, and then getting as many possible attempts at at the rim as possible. So, if this Brooklyn team is that going to be that bad defensively, there's no way they're winning the Eastern Conference because they'll be taking the ball

out of it too much. It doesn't matter. I know there probably are some concerns with Philadelphia against some of the better teams in the league scoring consistently in the half court. But if Brooklyn is that bad defensively, they're gonna be able to score enough, and then they're a

really good defensive team, a really good defensive team. That's part of the reason why I picked them to win the East, because I thought Brokelym was gonna be too deficient defensively to win a series, and I thought the Bucks would be too deficient offensively to win a series against Philly. It is more of a matchup thing more than anything else. So, yeah, if Brooklyn is gonna be that terrible, they have literally no chance of winning the Eastern Conference if they're gonna be one of the worst

defensive teams in the league. Now, what we could point to is um I think the twenty eighteen Calves were, um twenty you could probably you probably first, I think, but again they weren't. They weren't dealing with teams like Philly and Milwaukee out East. They just exactly then they were playing Victorialadipot and Ricky Jayson Tatum and and the Raptors right before they blew it up with the Rose In like teams that were really kind of either really young or towards the end of the rope in terms

of where they were at in their trajectory. So um that I was not optimistic on Brooklyn coming into this season. I think people could probably guess that from me picking Philly to win the East. I am less optimistic now, especially if Katie's gonna go down for a week, maybe it's even more than a week. Um with COVID protocol stuff. What are they gonna be when he comes back for at eight four nine, So now they're already trying to dig out of a hole. They'll be on the road

for a playoff series. Maybe fans will be back by that time, who knows. So if they've got to go on the road to Philly and Billy gets to have present capacity that's gonna be a crazy Philly crowd even with that few people being Brooklyn to me is in a much more spot than I expected earlier in the season. I thought they'd at least play with effort early on, but it doesn't even seem like they're doing that well.

They're the Kyrie, and and and Katie are both you know a little bit uh what's the word I'm looking, But they're just flaky in terms of their like personalities and the way they can kind of add in and

out focus wise during the season. And this this last thing I want to touch on with Brooklyn before we move on, you know, And we talked a little bit about this before the season, but I think it's I think it's so ridiculous to me that, you know, for instance, with Steph, you know, we look at stef and we talked about where he ranks with the other players in the league, and we talked about how his you know, on bull creation and his off ball creation, his own

personal scoring, what he does for his teammates and how that adds value, you know, uh, how that impacts winning. And then we also talk about how like you know, he doesn't you know, give away points on the defensive and he's not an elite defensive player, but he's not. He's kind of like the middle of the pack, hold his own type of guy. And he's been really good this year so far. He's been really good. Best I've seen him since probably, But what really what really bothers me?

And and it's and it's it's doesn't it doesn't take away from you know, how fun it is to watch Katie or the fact that you know, I'm really happy that he's coming back from his injury and he looks healthy. He had a dunk early against against the I think it was against the Pistons that was just ridiculous, or did where he did a double crossover and then took off of his right leg and just threw it down with two hands like the He looks great. I'm super

happy for him. I'm rooting for him. Here's the thing. If you want to be considered on Lebron James level, or on Kawhi Leonards level or better than those guys, why in the world are we letting him off the hook and what we expect from him on the defensive end of the floor. And and it really really bothers me that that that no one ever brings this up. He he somehow, somewhere along the line, gained this reputation as someone who was a good defensive player, and no

one ever watches him anymore. It pays any close attention. You and I talked before the season that the only way this team would be an elite defensive team was if Katie cared enough to make that one of his goals. And because we talked about how he has Anthony Davis's defensive gifts, He's equally mobile, if not more. He's got the same heightened length He's got. He's not quite as as strong, but he's got he's got the ability to be that type of impact defensive player. He just literally

doesn't care and and I don't that does. That's not a problem necessarily, and you could still win with him, as we know we've seen him do it. But to me, it's worth bringing up that as one of the most physically gifted players in the league at a position where every single one of his peers and including Paul George and Kawhi Leonard and Janis Antenna Coompo and Lebron who's faded in and out at times, but for the most part of his career has been one of the best

defensive players in the league. Katie just doesn't care enough to even devote the time and focus it requires to build that to build that identity on this team, which could literally be the difference between him winning and losing this year is whether or not he can be effects similar of Anthony Davis or if he continues to be the turn style that he can be at times, that's

gonna be the difference between them winning and losing. And I think it's I'm not saying it's like this is not slander because he's been like this his whole career. I just think it's worth pointing out that when you're comparing him to his peers, he's got all the athletic gifts in the world and has gotten almost He's got not almost nothing, but he's he's an average too slightly above average defensive player when he should be a first team All defense guy. And and I think that's worth

pointing out. You know what's funny about it, too, um a lot of those Lebron years where he was bad and he shouldn't get an excuse for those, was because he was carrying such a heavy offensive load. He doesn't need to do that. This year. He had one of the better on ball creators in the league with Kyrie next to him, and they also have Carriss Lefort, who has been up and down this year, but he's a

guy who can create on the ball. The Spencer Dimity injury does hurt, but they have enough offensive talent on that roster to where he can maybe take five to ten percent of his energy and focus it on defense and say, you know what, every night or nine percent of the time, I'm shutting off the rim tonight and

teams aren't scoring, just like Anthony Davis does. And a D hasn't looked that great early in the year just because short off season, whatever, but we know when it when it comes to nutcrunching time, a D is going to shut off the rim every single time and teams aren't going to score. Durin has that ability. He truly does. Saw We saw him do it in Golden State. We saw him do it in the two thousand sixteen Western Conference Finals. It through the whole series out of wack.

Raymond Green didn't know what to do. Draymond Green looked absolutely lost after having the best season of his career because Katie was everywhere and his arms were everywhere, and Draymond could barely make passes at some point of the series. It befuddles me that he is just not willing to do this because, like you're saying, it is the difference between them like losing in the second round and maybe winning a title like that. That's how big of a

swing skill his defenses this year. As pascalbron the years that he didn't defend, he lost okolutely. In two thousand twenty, he engaged himself on the defensive end. I I thought he should have been second team All Defense. So he ended up not getting it, but he was pretty unanimously, unanimously referred to as one of the better defensive players

in the league. And again literally they want again, and it's just it's there will be a time, and you know, like it's just it's one of those things where in a margin in a year like this too, where the title is there for the taking. You know, the Laker team is the best team in the league, I think, but they are not unbeatable and and it's there for the taking, and and and you have a roster I've been pleasantly surprised with with uh, with a lot from

this Brooklyn team. You have what it takes to win. They just need you to do what the other guys at the top of the league do, which is maximize their defensive talent. Steph isn't the same defensive player as those other guys, but he damn sure is getting every

single drop of defensive potential out of his body. And so is Anthony Davis, and so is uh you know, Jani Santana Kumpo, and and so is Kawhi Leonard, and so is Lebron and you and you are leaving something on the table, leaving a lot on the table there, and it could be the difference between winning and losing. And I think that's worth All I'm saying is it's worth pointing out when you're telling me about who the

best players in the league are. And it's the reason why I didn't have him as high as other people did coming into the season. You know, It's just it's just I think it's I think it's part of winning basketball games, which if that's not the ultimate gold and what are we even talking about here? Defense is such a top down thing, man, If your best players do it and commit to what everybody else will. They have

to They have no choice, absolutely zero choice. Because if you can point to the best guy and say, hey, he's he's kicking ass every night on the defensive end, what what is Joe Harris going to say to that? What is Carris LeVert going to say to that? What is DeAndre Jordan going to say to that? Because he's an absolute statue at this point. The fact that he's playing more than Jared all and that that kind of

personifies all their issues as a whole. The fact that he's getting more minutes than Jared Allen just because I guess he's friends with k D. Point being, their whole season is basically into Rand's hands. If he decides to commit to that end, everybody else will and if he doesn't, then they're going to lose in the second round. And that's I think that's basically what I said before the season. So we'll see what happens, but I am I'm out

for the time being. That's yeah, and it will be when we won't We won't be able to get anything new from them for four games anyway. With the um okay, so with the Lakers second in offense, fifth, and defense second in net rating. Big things standing out to me is that Lebron and a d are basically barely trying. They're both underneath twenty four points per game. They're both playing pretty low minutes compared to what they had been playing.

The team has had multiple games and quarters and halves this season where they basically coasted and then just tried to have the game at the end and win. Um, their half came out of first place in the league in terms of the standings. Tell me why I shouldn't be more confident than ever that this team is going to win the title. Um injuries the Lebron or Anthony Davis, but he got their short off season. I mean, I

don't really have any good answers. Uh. Like I said, I think on our previous when we did kind of our season Western Conference season preview. The reason for the Schroder and Treads signings, in my opinion, they were regular season sign signings, and I think Shorter will help in the playoffs. He's looked really good this year. Well, he's depending really well, and that's going to be a key for him to stay on the floor, especially when uh, you know, Cruiso feels a little bit better and he's

back in the rotation. But those guys are going to help them float, you know, float wins on the on the nights where Lebron Ladie just don't have it because they're coming off a season where they did do everything

for that Lakers team they had. They both had a huge load to carry on both ends every single night, um, and they did it for you sixty plus games, and they went to the bubble and they did it for two and a half months, and then they got seventy days of an off season, short of off season in NBA history basically, So if you're a Lakers fan, you have a lots of reasons to be optimistic right now.

This team is deep, they're good, they can defend, they're they're everything you want in a title contender, and they still have You know, whatever you think of Lebron, whenever you think of a d probably two of the five or six best players in the world at the absolute worst, and more so than anything, that's a formula for winning a title. If you have two of the six best players in the world, you're probably at least gonna be in the conversation, if not right at the top and then,

and they have the supporting players to do it. Um. I know, I saw some weird stuff with West West Matthew's net rating and him being actually the worst net rating guy through six or seven games, which was confusing to me. But I've actually really liked the way he's looked for them so far. Like I said, shorters look good. Treads is treads. I don't think. I think he's not

gonna be munch time. He's he can't depend on if we need coming into the season, but it's been It was very evident because I watched that Clippers team a lot. He was one of the reasons that I didn't think they had a chance to win the title last year. He was playing too many minutes tim him. They were relying on thirty minutes minutes from him and Lou Williams.

You're not winning a title like that ever. I'm sorry, but he's a good guy to get twelve and six off the bench in the regular season or even in the playoffs and only play and you know, the smallest parts in the first and second quarters and then the third and fourth quarters. He's never playing closing minutes. Um, they're a really good team. I mean, I really don't have much else to add. They they look just as

good as last last year, if not better. The only thing I worry about is they are with the loss of Dwighton Devail compared to the Soul, they are a little bit less athletic on the front line. If they do come across the team that can exploit that and will put a lot on a D. But I think we've seen that he's more than willing to play the five when it actually gets down to, you know, second third round of the playoffs and they need him to play minutes to night there. So that would be my

only concern at this point. But besides that, they look they're coasting two wins, like absolutely coasting their bare even trying most nights, and then they're turning it on for six or seven minutes and they're winning the game. They very clearly have another level they can get to, if not a couple of levels. Um. The biggest thing that I think if I was a fan of one of the other twenty nine teams, the biggest thing that would concern me is that they look a lot like uh

last year's Milwaukee team without the same fatal flaws. For instance, last year's Milwaukee team that everybody we always talked about this going into the uh the m VP debate, but the with Jannie on the floor, they were murdering teams, and then with Janice off the floor, they were still outscoring teams by like, you know, I think it was five or six points per possession, by what four points possession with Lebron off the floor right now? Yeah, like

literally they are. They are destroying teams with Lebron on the floor right now, and when Lebron is off the floor, they're still outscoring teams by just under five points per one hundred possession. So it's it's shaping up. Now. Again, this is really early that a lot of those numbers are likely to to call down a little bit. But here in the early going, they are absolutely dominating basketball teams without having to really put their foot on the gas.

Look that last game against Memphis, now Memphis was without John Morantz, was pretty bad team, and Jared Jackson, Yeah, yeah, Lebron literally was b s ng for three quarters and then came in the fourth quarter and was like, we'll try, we'll win, and we'll get out of here. And they ended up winning by double digits. And and helped all

their advanced metrics, like it's the craziest thing. They they just and and this is where the Tread's and the mantras Harrold's or the mantres Harold and Dennis Schroeder and

westling At these types of signings really help. And we talked about this before the season, But the new bodies in that locker room have allowed the Lakers to to lose some of the lethargy and so Lebron and a d can kind of b s their way through games, but the other guys on the roster aren't, and it's allowing them to get to the end of the game when they can really dial it up and put these teams away. I I I am of the opinion that the gap has grown because I don't like what I've

seen from Brooklyn. The Clippers actually look pretty good, but it's hard to say because they have Yeah, they have well and they but they also got destroyed by the Jazz with Kauai, so there they have a couple of really bad losses. But um with the Clippers, I just have the same problems with them that I've always had. Um Uh, Let's move on to Philly, So Philly fourteen and offense, but number one in defense. Uh, third in net rating. Their for number one in defense by a

wide margin. They're the only team in the league under one hundred points per possession. And yeah, and number two is like one up over a hundred two points per possession. Umu Seth Curry is having a career best year. Tobias Harris has been absolutely killing it lately. Ben Simmons has been playing really well. He's only made one three to this point in the season, but he looks pretty good.

And Joel Embid is looking like an MVP candidate. So, uh, you were high on this team coming into the season, um is there anything from them that you've seen that would change your mind or make you get reckless and

making any prediction or anything along those lines. No, I mean I still think they they have I think al ways to improve offensively, Like you said, fourteenth in offensive rating, but I think some of that was early on that they had some bad games, and we'll see if that's common for them, or they have these games where they really struggle or is more of an outlier early in

the season. They're getting used to some things. I've noticed that they are adding some wrinkles offensively, some good stuff to get Simmons downhill, a bunch of stuff to get curry shots. Like you said, he's shooting, I mean he's he's shooting like fifty fifty one right now, I think from the field. So that's obviously not gonna last. But

one of the better shooters in the league. Um, And there's a reason I really love that pairing of him and Simmons because I mean, it has like some like poor Man Steph Draymond vibes, right, Like the skill sets are somewhat similar. Seth obviously isn't Staff and Simmons obviously isn't Draymond. But the skill sets are similar, right, so they can do some of the things that those two can do together. A lot of drible handoff stuff. Set

isn't a bad passer. You can create a little bit out of you know, pick and roll d chose situations, get Simmons downhill, get him into situations where he's playing for on three like you said, and beat is looked amazing. Um, he's looked like maybe the best defender in the NBA. He could easily win the Defensive Player of the Year this year. The key for them is just gonna be okay, can we get our offense to top ten level and do we trust him beat enough Layton games to actually

win playoff series? Right that That's what it's really gonna come down to. Ken Joe l EmpId be good enough late in the game against Kevin Durant, against Kyrie Irving, against the honest to actually win win the game because they're gonna be there. Defensively, I think they're gonna be able to get enough stops. They have the correct They have so much defensive versatility on that roster they can really I think they can basically guard any type of superstar just looking at it. Um kind of from a

broad spectrum. They can throw South Kurry isn't a bad defender. He's pretty solid. He's really handsy on ball. He's more physical than you'd expect. You can throw him on um a Kyrie type. Fatiste. Ty Bow is obviously a really good guy to throw on any type of garter wing to whys Harris Ben Simmons really big bodies on the wing. They can defend and beats one of the best room protectors in the league. There. Like I said, I I

thought before the year. Getting a fresh voice in that locker room with Doc Rivers is really gonna help them. And then they get to get some new guys too, so it didn't feel so stagnant. They brought in Curry, they brought in Green, they got rid of Al Horford. Um. Yeah, I really like this team. My opinion on them has not changed at all. I still think they're probably going to win the East. UM, and you know, it's a

piggyback on the Lakers stuff. I still think the Lakers would be favored in that series, and I think they should be. UM. But I'm really optimistic about this filly team, which is gonna be Can they figure out how to get manufacture a few more easy buckets in the half court because the defense is going to be ridiculously elite all year, and that stuff about the half court comes down to embide um. One quick note on the Lakers has been better this year, by the way, he is

actually looking for cutters again. He's looking for shooters, which he wasn't doing as much in year's past. I think because he was maybe frustrated with the way with the roster and the coaching and a bunch of things. So but he's he seems to have a renewed energy, and I think that was a lot of the reason for getting rid of bet Round and bringing in Doc Rivers.

Well yeah, and I mean Darryl Moorey managed to completely fix this roster in one offseason just by making basic basketball decisions that were related shooting around Joel Embiad and

Ben Simmons. What a novel concept. Hum, But I do think this is one of the biggest reasons why I was pro the Marcusol signing is you know, Dwight Howard was a good option to throw at yokich In, a good option to throw at a guy like Embiid, but not a great option because he commits a lot of fouls, easily gets into foul trouble, can get kind of riled up,

and very easily can mentally check out of a game. Marcusol, to me, is such a huge addition for the Lakers as a spot guy to have for specific playoff matchups. If i'm because of the because you know, Marcusol is a is a the The game has kind of passed him by as a defensive center in the open court, but he is still probably the best post offender in the league, and I need hell everything he gives him be hell every single time. And he's built for a

Yoki's matchup as well. And so from that standpoint, like I love having him on that Laker roster for those specific matchups and because you know, when it comes to beating a team that is more talented, you usually need an ace in the whole, a matchup that you just can't deal with. For instance, the Clippers and the Nuggets

last year. The Nuggets did not have the top to bottom talent that the Clippers did, but they didn't have anybody that could guard your kitch, and it completely threw off the tenor of the series and it made it so that, you know, the Clippers found themselves into late game scenarios and then a couple of things didn't go their way and then they lost. And so having that kind of matchup could have been a problem for a lot of teams in the league, and having someone like

marcusol on the roster is huge. But I again like the this is this would be my question for Philly, and it's something that I think will be interesting to watch as the season progresses. If you think m Beat is that guy and you think that this is the season that when he gets toe to toe, eye to eye with the best players in the league in the late round playoff series, that he's gonna be able to come out on top. Then I think you keep the

status quo and you ride this out. You build on your number one defense in the league, and the goal is just keep the game closer. You can ride and be late. Uh. If you don't think him be can do that, then I think you gotta go after Harden and I and I and I tweeted this last night. I'm I told you before the season that I thought they needed to go after Hardened, and I'm worried that they're playing too well now that that is off off

the table. They're hoping that. I'm hoping that Darryl Morey, you know, has been around long enough to see that winning in those late round playoffs series is all about your alpha dog and what he can do against the other alpha dogs in the league. He literally has been assassinated by Steph Curry before he knows what he knows

what it takes. And so from that standpoint, you know, if if they if they come into a rough patch or if they lose to a couple of really good teams, Like if they drop a game in Milwaukee, they drop a game against one of the big Western Conference teams, or they lose a game in Boston, because suddenly when Boston and and and in Toron though and and you know, Milwaukee get into a switching scheme and the half court that leaves you know, uh and beat on an island,

and all of a sudden you can't handle double teams and Ben Simmons is back to being a guy in the dunker spot. That kind of thing happens. I hope they're smart enough to audible and realize that they've got an option on the table that makes them unbeatable. And if a lot of people are like, oh, you have to ditch tyble or you've got you know, Ben Simmons could be the defense player the year, why would you

do that? It's like it's like, yeah, if you can build a team around James Harden, Seth Curry, Tobias Harris and Joel Embiid, you do that a million times out of a million, because that's the best top four in the league probably, you know, I mean, and Beads looking like the sixth or seventh best player in the league in Harden's right there. I think he's around seventh or eighth.

Do you think he's eleventh? But the point is is like that that's the line up there, that that that other teams in the league will not be able to match up with and and and it's something, It's an opportunity that's right there for the taking. And I feel like they're playing so damn well that that Daryl Morey is gonna be emptied into not doing it, and Harden's gonna end up going somewhere like Toronto where they're still

not going to be good enough. And I don't know I did that that that was just something that's been on my mind. Yeah, I don't think about mori is. I don't think he ever takes any option really off the table, right. I mean, my guests would be he's waiting close to the deadline. He's waiting for more leverage so they can give up less to get James Harden, because if they I don't see how they get it

done without Simmons. But if they somehow can, and now you have hardened Simmons and embiid, you can be pretty special. I mean that might be too many guys who need too many touches. That is an issue from time to time where you've got three guys who need the ball a lot um, you'd have to sell Simmons on really just being kind of an off ball playmaker in a way and and just being an absolute defensive menace to

basically to sell them one being Draymond Green. But if they can either way, if they can't get hardened, that there they go from, in my opinion, that slight favorites in the East two being the prohibitive favorites in the East. If they could sum out playing a Harden trade and keep Simmons or not keep Simmons because Harden is that

special off or that is that special offensively. For all the crap that I give him a lot of, it is contact space and what he's done to that Rockets franchise in terms of just every eighteen months they're turning

over the roster because he's never happy. If you get him in a situation where you can you have some leadership around him, you have some veterans, and you can kind of just tell him to do what he's really good at and not do much else, then yeah, I think he's like I've said, one of the most talented offensive players of all time. So if if it's on the table and they can get a better deal because

they wait towards the trade deadline, then do it. And Ben Simmons just missed a postseason with a knee injury, and he missed his season with a foot injury. Like he's not the same physical guy that that Harden is. Um Okay, so uh, just because we've been going for so long, let's go rapid fire through these um, what are your quick thoughts in Toronto? There and offense thirteenth

and defense twenty one and net ratings. Siakam has been absolutely terrible again, offense is ridiculous for a team like that. The only reason I wanted to talk about them is do they just punt? I mean, do they do they decide this is the year that we move Lowry and and maybe move a couple of guys and just kind of punt the year. Um. I know, they just signed resigned Van Bleet. They gave Sam a ton of money, so that doesn't really make sense to do in a

lot of ways. But this draft is also one of the most special drafts in in the in recent memory. I mean, I'm following it because the Warriors have the Wolves pick Um, so they're gonna get probably a pick in the four to ten range. There's like five or six guys in this class who probably would have went number one in the last class. That's how good this

draft classes. So if you're Toronto in your Massai who is not scared to take a risk and make a move, we know that for sure, do you consider maybe moving Lowry and maybe moving even siakum Um and kind of punting it and saying, let's let's try to get a

future superstar and start to rebuild a little bit here. Well, And the other thing there too is I think they're wired in a way kind of similar to the San Antonio Spurs, where I don't think, I don't think we're not getting in their vocabulary, but I do think that, you know, I don't think it's nearly as good of an opportunity for James Harden as Philly is, but they are an interesting opportunity because so theoretically you end up having to give up Sam, and you have to give

up um god, what's his name, the guy towards the cel when he was a Yeah, so you have to give up o G and Sam and messes with your defense a little bit, But they still have a lot of athleticism on that team, a lot of bigger wings. Theoretically, Lowry and and and VanVleet are two really really good shooters that give James Harden space. You go all in on kind of a small ball team with a lot of athleticism, um and having three guards that can create

a lot on the perimeter. Again, you have some matchup issues potentially when you get to the late round playoff series. I mean, Baines isn't a terrible option, but he's someone you can throw um. I do wonder if if that's the move there for them, just understanding that they're not

wired in a way that they would punt. You know, Trading Kyle Lowry is effectively just selling I Like there's a lot Trading Kyle Lowry makes a lot sense, a lot more sense for the other teams in the league than it does for the Raptors, meaning like of course, like yeah, of course, Like he would make anybody better.

Kyle Lowry is an absolute winner. If he's the second or third best player on your team, like you're just you're a lot better team but again, what if I'm Toronto, if the what like, there's so much talent on the team too, you'd have to sell everything in order to tank. And I just don't don't think they're wired that way.

And then the lottery is never sure thing for getting a top five guy anyway, with the way that it shakes out, So I they to me are a sleeper heart and destination or not even one of the top two or three destinations. And then we also know we we we we know uh um from the Kauai situation, that that's something that they're willing to do. You know, miss miss i is is not scared to take a big risk. UM Denver twenty ninth in defense, fourth in offense,

four teenth and net rating um uh. We talked about before the season that giving up Tory Craig and uh Jeremy Grant could have been a problem for them in terms of their overall wing defense and the way that it might make them a less athletic team. And and we talked about how Michael Porter Jr. While he's a great offensive player, was not the team defensive player in that role. And early on it looks like we hit

that one out of the Park. They're one of the best offensive teams in the league, and they're not winning games, right, And that's basically why I wanted to talk about them. I think, but we do a lot of the times is we don't realize how important point of attack defense is for raising a defensive floor. I think your health defenders a Draymond Green, a you know, Joel and beat and Anthony Davis, they can raise your defensive seeing a lot. And they obviously can raise the floor too, right becau

they're really special at stopping rim attacks. But if you're if your guards and wings are constantly getting beat off the dribble, those type of guys can only do so much, right. You need those guys who can at least be passible to good on the ball, so your health defenders aren't constantly in rotation and constantly playing one or two steps behind.

So there, I think their biggest issue is they really only have one one guy who's even average too above average as a point of attack defender, and that's Gary Harris, and he has not looked good this year either. He's had a lot of injuries at this point, and he might never be the same guy they gave him. You know, four years, eighty four million, which looked like a great deal at the time. I thought that was a really good deal for him, but when he first signed it,

but he's a hit. At the time, Yeah, he was. He was shooting from three, he was able to attack the rim. He looked like he was going to be one of the best young shooting guards in the league. But injuries, man that they ruined. They ruined tons of guys careers, So who knows if he's ever going to

be the same guy doesn't really look like it. And hunting your other two best wing defenders turns out that's not a good idea, especially when Tory Craig he didn't really even go for that much like it's a lot of their off sense offseason moves made no sense to me. Um, I guess I wanted to see if Michael Porter Jr. Was ready to be that guy, but pretty clearly he isn't. Um, maybe things change, But if your kich has been amazing offensively, but if they can't get stops out of that matters.

There two and four for a reason, they cannot get stopped. Like I said, having point of attack defenders raises your defensive floor. That was the issue with the Worris last year. Draymond Green was still Draymond Green defensively, but they were twenty seven and defensive rating because they didn't have anybody who could guard the ball. As you can guard the ball, you will not get stops, period, end of story. You gotta have at least two or three of those guys.

Denver has one at most right now. Well, you and I talked a lot about this as it pertains to Portland, like there's so much emphasis on this big, switchy wing defender and what ironically, because of how talented the point guard position is in the league, the one of the most important parts of a defense is guard defense. And and and you know it's funny because I, uh, it was. It was one of the biggest you know, refreshing things

that I saw about the Lakers last year. Um was you know, these were these were guys that were considered under size, you know, below average defenders. But what they were good at was they were good at moving their feet against smaller guards. And so yeah, like Alex Crusoe and Contagious called a hope couldn't guard. Why but against all of these other teams in the league that we're relying on your Jamal Murray, you know, Bradley Beal or Kemba Walker, any of these quick, you know, initiation guys

up top. They were able to keep them in front and and just do a better than usual job of making things difficult at the beginning of a possession for these guys. And and you know, it's not exactly a big shock that that Steph Curry was able to break things open against Dame and c J because they're just not a really they're just not a really good point of attack defensive team in the back court. And they were like, oh, we got Robert Covington, all of our

defensive problems are solved. And it's like, well, unless you plan on having Robert Covington guard the other team's point guard, it's not really going to fix your problems. Every possession starts with a straight line drive. And yeah, and that's not his strength either. He's a really good help side defender.

He's the type of guy that if you have good point of attack defenders, he can help raise your defensive ceiling because he's gonna raise a lot of problems, right, But if you don't have guys that can get a stop at all. Then there is are gonna be blow by after blow by after blowby, and now he's always a step or two by one, and now we're either shooting layups, were getting wide open threes, and yeah, just

point about that defense. Man. It's become underrated because there's all this focus on getting a Draymond Green, getting an Anthony Davis, getting this guy or that guy. First of all, good luck getting one of those guys. Second of all, if you do get them, you're still gotta be able to stop the ball. Nothing matters if you can't guard

the ball exactly. Um. And the last thing Ile'll say about Denver is that they're a team that I would project to eventually end up in the middle of the Western Conference playoff race, if not better, because they can score. And like I always say, it's a lot easier to take bad defensive players and get them to play some form of cohesive defensive basketball where they are rotating and being in the right spot at the right time. Um.

And Mike Malone's a really, really good coach. I don't they'll never be a top ten defense with this personnel, but if they can get into that fifteen fourteen range just by virtue of effort and focused. They will very easily be a four or five seed in the West just because of how good they are scoring the ball. Um last nut offense while being twenty nine and defense that's insane. Yeah, it's insane. They're taking the ball and then they're still one of the best offenses in the

league exactly, uh. And and their offense makes sense, and they've got a lot of chemistry with the guys and and maybe that's why they've kind of bowed out of this James Harden thing is they're not worried about their offensive end of the ball defense here Atlanta, there are. They are third in offense seventeenth and defense UH sixth and net rated rating. UH. Gallantari has been hurt for

the most part. UH. Bogdan Bogdanovich has been really bad, like really bad, especially in the last couple of games they started. They started undefeated and then went into Brooklyn and lost a really crazy game where Kyrie made a bunch of clutch shots. Then they came back and beat the pants off of Brooklyn. Looked really, really good. So they got off to this amazing start and then they lose to the Knicks and the Calves, so so I don't I don't really know what to make of them.

Early in the two in the Knicks and Calves game, Uh, Trey Young was really bad against the Calves. He was okay against the Knicks. Pagdanovitch was really really bad. Like I said, Gallinari has been out. Um. But to me, those are just, you know, inexcusable losses for a team that's that has the type of aspirations that they have. Yep. So part of the reason why, well, the main reason I wanted to talk about them is do we think they're a playoff team? Because we talked about this in

our season preview. It seems like there's a mandate for them to make the playoffs, especially on that front office. They obviously started really well, but I think a lot of the same issues that were there are still there. And if Trey Young isn't gonna shoot seventeen free throws a game like he was early in the season, then they're going to start to struggle a little bit more offensively.

I don't think he's gonna keep shooting seventeen free throws a game unless he's the greatest foul jarwer in the history of the week. Right, They obviously do have a historically great or not historically great right now, but one of the better offenses in the league. And I think Trey is the type of guy that can lead that. Um. But as soon as those free throw numbers come down, they'll drop back to the pack a little bit. And

I still don't think very much of them defensively. They played some really bad teams and they're still seventeenth in defense. Breading Like, they played some bad teams to start the season, and I think that was a lot of the reason they look good. Um, So, I mean, do we think they're a playoff team at this point? Well, it's the trouble for Atlanta is that all the other teams in the East look really good. I mean people were hoping that if people were hoping that India would fall out,

and he looks really good. Gas, Yeah, Like, you know, Philly looks really good. Boston has kind of got it together in the last few games. Toronto has fallen out, but it's like you've gotta figure they're going to figure something out or make a move or something. They're yeah, yeah, So, like the problem there is is everyone else is so good and I my gut tells me that they'll get in just because they have enough good basketball players on

the roster that I think they'll get in. And and it's it's clear that they're the organizational goal is there, you know, And right now all these teams are trying. But because of the depth at the top of next year's draft, there's gonna be a point sometime thirty games into the season or so or a bunch of these teams that are at the bottom of the East in particular, and a couple of teams in the bottom of the West are going to kind of let your foot off the gas and let this thing slip away. And when

they do, you know, guess what's gonna happen. Like you're you're just gonna start getting some easy wins on that Eastern Conference schedule, And teams like Atlanta just have so much talent and they're young enough that they're just gonna clean house in those games. I mean, you think they did dropped a couple of really winnable ones. Um uh, But yeah, I I you know, I tend to think that there's enough talent offensively on that team to carry them in a week Eastern Conference at the bottom and

and and find a way in. But yeah, like I think I think I explicitly said, uh in my last podcast that you know I had, I had a hard time believing that the Atlanta Hawks and the Cleveland Cavaliers are gonna be the best team, best teams in the league by the end. So this, some of this was kind of to be expected. Yeah, I mean, where do so. I'm still Luca over Trey guy, but I think that conversation is a lot closer than it has been in the past. Like, Trey has looked amazing this year, and

Luca obviously hasn't. I think Lucas probably out of shape. Luke's playing himself in the shape. Yeah, and he had to play in the bubble trade, didn't There's some other stuff going on there, that's true. I didn't even think about that. But I don't know. Man, As a guy who's been pretty low on Trey, I'm starry to think he might prove me wrong because he he is just a ridiculously talented offensive player. He can literally do whatever he wants with the ball. He draws like I'm saying

he dropped I'll an historic right. He's an incredible shooter from deep even though the percentages aren't there. You have to guard him out the thirty peak because he will shoot it. He's an incredible passer. Uh. It really is going to come down to does he ever learn how to play defense? Because if he does, that guy is gonna lead top five offenses for fifteen years. Um. So the last thing will end with today is a comment

from uh from Matt John brother it's your brother. Okay, So Tommy's brother says that Tommy's a fake Steph fan and that world peace is not attainable while he's still on Twitter. Thanks Matt, I love you too, brother. Anyway, thank you guys so much for joining us. Like I said UH at the beginning of the show, the idea here is that at least once a week we'll have Tommy on. We'll talk about all this NBA stuff. Um. God knows that we're gonna have plenty of interesting things

to talk about over the course of the year. And then I'll mix that in with some lakers of big stuff with some other guys. But tell me, I really appreciate your time, and I really appreciate you uh committing to do this with me. I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. Always fun, man, always fun. Thanks for having me on, all right, man, I'll see you next week, all right. Let it by