Episode 12: Eastern Conference Preview With Tommy Gunn @TGunn21

Let's go. He looks good. I it was funny. It's funny because I couldn't actually watch the entire games. I saw a couple of minutes of one when I was in a restaurant, and then I would just periodically check on the box scores. And it was a little bit of a roller coaster ride for you, because it started awesome in the first game and then went off the rails a little a bit late, and then all of a sudden last night, it was like the exact is

the exact opposite. It started rough, and then he just had one of his vintage Steph quarters there in the third quarter that looked like the old staph, which was awesome. Yeah, that's I mean, that's a step Curry experience. You know, he can beat three for thirteen and then all of a sudden, he makes six straight shots in the third quarter and the game puts on its head. So yeah,

he looks like the same old guy. I'm still slightly slightly concerned about his off the dribble shooting, but I'm assuming it's a rhythm thing at this point and it

will come back. So it's funny because I remember, now you and I used to have like debates a long time ago about because remember I remember having this big thing that thirty It was like twenty nine of his first ninety playoff games, so roughly like thirty percent of his first nine playoff games he shot below and and my one of my biggest things that I talked about was like, he's just prone to having cold shooting spells, and I believe that's what got him beat in two

thousand and sixteen. The reality is is that will inevitably that's the beauty of a seven game series, as you can afford to have bad shooting games because it'll the math will just inevitably work out in your favor. But I always looked at that as something that was just kind of a characteristic of his game, you know what I mean. But as long as the good is still there and as long as it happens at least twice for every one time he's bad, I'm I'm still a

believer in what he can do. Me too. Yeah, And he's just, you know, out of the top twenty guys of all time. He's probably the most Hiberians player there is, hotter than anybody, but we've see it can also get colder than anybody because he's still reliant on jump shooting. That's what jump shooting. That's what jump shooting is exactly exactly, So it is what it is. But he looked good the last couple of games, So I'm I'm optimistic. Yeah, I'm excited to see how it goes, especially once he

gets all of his guys on board there. So we're gonna we're gonna be doing the Eastern Conference today. We're primarily going to be focusing on Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and Philly, but we'll kind of do like what we did on Tuesday, will rapid fire through some of the other teams in the Eastern Conference. Um, but you know, when we get to talking about Brooklyn, we're gonna be harping on defense just the most the thing that gets brought up with Brooklyn.

But it's one of those classic kind of cliche things that gets said so much that I think it almost loses some of its meaning. And I don't think people realize that, as is the case with most cliches their cliche for a reason. The reason why people preach defense wins wins championships is because it literally does. And so I was doing some digging into the numbers, and it's crazy because the stat that everybody hears is that if you're not a top ten defense can't win a title.

And it goes back like that goes back decades. Basically, the only outliers are teams Rockets, and I believe ninety five I remember correctly. I think he is one of the greatest defensive players of all time, so that makes sense, right, He could probably turn it on and shut down the

RIM for an entire series exactly. And then there was the Shaq Kobe Lakers, and then there was the uh the Warriors in two thousand eighteen, all out like just outlier talent teams at least that came not so much, but it was a different era and MJ was out of the league, so there was kind of like an

opportunity there that opened up for him. But so what's crazy is I dug I dug a little bit deeper in the numbers, And what's wild is just going back in this centuries so from there's been twenty one champions, and yes, the all of them made the top ten, except for the three that I mentioned or the two that I mentioned a second ago. But what's even crazier is fourteen of the twenty one weren't just top ten defenses.

They were top five defenses. They were defenses that, uh that weren't just capable of having stretches where they defended well. They were the elite of the elite on the defensive end of the floor. And I looked at what I thought was really interesting to your point earlier about like having a defensive identity to fall back on, even if

it was from previous seasons. The two thousand eighteen Warriors were eleventh in defense, but the previous season they were second, so you could attribute a lot of their defensive slippage to just normal regular season apathy. Same thing with the two thousand thirteen heat they were ninth, which is outside of the top five, which, like I said, was somewhat

rare as well. But the previous year they were fourth, so they had a defensive ended identity that they could fall back on, and I believe they were even higher than fourth. In two thousand and eleven. The two thousand nine Lakers one as a sixth best defense in the league. They were top five the previous season even though they lost,

so there was a defensive identity they built up. And then famously, the shot Kobe Lakers in two thousand one were twenty second in defense, which is just absolutely atrocious, but that I thought it was like they weren't there were twenty second if I'll double check, but I'm pretty sure that's what I had. And what's crazy about that they were number one the previous year, They were the best defense in the entire league in two thousand one, and then they you know, fell off the rails the

next season. Point point being though, is that they were able to, you know, fall back on a defensive identity that they had at some point in the past that allowed them to kind of regain some momentum on the defensive end in the playoffs. And you know, it's funny because I remember vividly watching this Laker team, because this is like one of the first teams I've readed for were since the Miami Heat, that had uh such a strong defensive identity, and I believe that was why they

were winning games. And there were a couple of stretches that I wrote down Game two against Portland after they dropped Game one, the Lakers didn't allow over twenty one or they didn't allow over twenty points in a quarter until the fourth quarter, so they literally just shut them down in the first three quarters of the game, as

like as they tied up that series. Um Game two against Houston after they dropped Game one and Russ was flexing to the non crowd and all that stuff, uh, seventeen points in the fourth quarter they allowed, and then famously at the There's a bunch of other examples over the course of the next few rounds, but famously, in Game six against Miami, they gave up only fifty eight points through three quarters, which is arguably one of the

more dominant defensive performances in NBA playoff history. The point being is that you know that we get fixated on highlights, we get fixated on skill sets, we get fixated on the things that that are more you know, appealing to the eye when it comes to winning basketball games. But you have to be a very good defense to have any chance of winning the title, and chances are roughly two out of three in this century. You have to be the elite of the elite on the defensive end

of the floor. And even if you don't put up the statistics, you have to have some sort of previous iteration of your current roster that can defend with the

elite of the elite. And so that's what I'm going to use to bring us to Brooklyn, because what I would ask you, Tommy, is what in the world can we lean on there, not just to think that they might be an okay defensive team, but that they could defend well enough to win in a league where all of their contenders that they're going to be going against can absolutely for extended stretches of the game lock in

and give you absolutely nothing easy. Um, well, I think what you have to look at is Kyrie Irving consistently playing like he did in the finals on the defensive ender. He was physical, he used his hands well, he kept his body in front of his man, he was relatively alert and didn't get lost off ball. You'd have to have Katie tap into the guy that he was in seventeen, and you'd have to do that consistently, because he has the potential to be UM. Maybe not an Anthony Davis

level room protector, but somewhere near that. When he's really locked in UM, and then you have to hope that that DeAndre Jordan is DeAndre Jordan from again instead of the guy that just puts his hands in the air as guys drive at him and just kind of plays ol a defense UM. And then there's just not a lot of defensive personnel on that roster. You have have to hope Spencer dinwoodi UM really takes a step forward in that direction. Same with Carris Lavert. Landry Shammont isn't

a bad on ball defender, but he's small. Mm hmm. You just have you would have to have the best defensive season for a lot of guys on that roster, either in their career or in a long time, so their path is basically bucking trends that have existed and becoming an entirely new team, which, as you're kind of pointing out, isn't common in the NBA. It's it's not common for people just to change who they are overnight, especially when they've been in the league for a long time.

So I've said this before. I think Brooklyn has the highest ceiling in the league, possibly because of the offensive talent on that roster. They have the two best ISO scorers in the league potentially in Kyrie and Katie, and then they have really nice pieces to go around them. And on offense, really good shooters and Shamut and Harris, good secondary handlers with Dinwoodie and Lebert who can even be primary handlers. They have lob threats with Jordan and

Allen Um. But the defense is obviously the concerning part, and that's where the floor could just fall out, and this team could if wrong injury happens. They missed the playoffs, so like a lot of the East, to me, they're a super interesting team that has a wide range of outcomes. And I would assume you you kind of stand somewhere

near this because I've heard your skepticism too. Well. It's funny because, like you know, as I was digging into this like even the teams that slipped outside of the top five head near missing, like the two thousand eighteen Warriors who slipped to eleventh, they damn near lost to Houston. Like that was that was a real possibility. Now you know we have that's a much more complicated topic what

happened in that series. But the point is is like they didn't dominate their way through and the and they had no business even being remotely competitive with those with that Cavalier team. But the reason why it was close as they were not cohesive defensively and Lebron literally ripped them to shreds in that finals. The two thousand sixteen Calves slipped the tent literally like they won by the

slimmest of possible margins. The two thousand thirteen Heats slipped to night They got pushed to seven twice in the

last two rounds. The point being is that, like it's just extremely difficult to UH to to win in long drawn out playoff series without the ability to do that, and and and you know it's crazy because you know when you look at UH that that Brooklyn Nets team, the truth is is that they have a foundation UH were that that's capable of being built on defensively as crazy as as crazy as the sounds, and a lot of people don't know this, but the Brooklyn Nets were

a top ten defense last year. They were right at number ten. But and some of that has to do with Eastern Conference lack of offensive talent, whatever you want to call it. But the truth is is that's not nothing. That's that is an identity within the existing role players on that team that they are committed on the defensive

end of the floor. So the question becomes, as you're swapping in minutes with Kyrie Irving and as you're bringing Kevin Durant to the table, is it fair for us as basketball fans to ask them to do the same things that we ask of other top ten players in the n b A, because you know, we constantly are on stuff about how dedicated he is on the defensive end and whether or not he can impact that end

of the floor. Like Lebron has been slandered at stretches for, you know, for being lazy during the regular season, and James Harden obviously as a world famous reputation for that. But like all these guys that are considered Kevin Durance peers are all defense level defensive defensive players for whenever their team needs them to be that, you know, that's what they bring to the table. And so my concern would be, what what would possess us to think that,

what's Kevin duran in his fourteenth season now? Something? It's not that? How it might be because steps twelve, it's thirteen or fourteen, Yeah, which doesn't even seem possible. But yeah, how so, so Kevin Durant and I've had this long standing theory that he very well should have been the greatest basketball player ever because he was that good on

the offensive end of the floor. But the problem was is despite his ridiculous uh skill set, athletically like he he is Anthony Davis as a physical specimen, He's not quite as strong, but it was just because he stayed out on the perimeter. The truth is is he's got the length, in the size, and the movement and all that stuff to be that type of impact defensive player. He just never cared about it over the course of his career. You and I talked about this a lot

in our NBA Hierarchy pod. But the truth, the truth of the matter is is for whatever reason, for thirteen or fourteen seasons. Now, he's never really put that together

for an extended stretch. So what would be the indicator that now after an achilles tear, you know, playing on a team that has less defensive talent than he had in his other In his other settings, because Oklahoma City could lock down and Golden State could lockdown, they had athletes that had the versatility on the wing, They had all of that stuff, And so my concern would just be there, like, is it possible that those two figure it out and Kyrie resumes what he was in two

thousand sixteen and Kevin Durant kind of resumes what he was in two thousand seventeen. Sure, but like the evidence that would that would lead us to believe that that's a likely outcome just isn't there in my opinion. So, like, I don't think it's likely, But I think what we could maybe point to is Kde being more motivated than he has been almost at any point in his career. U He obviously reads a lot of the press about himself. Um, he lets it bother him at times, But that being said,

he hears all the noise. So he heard that his titles were fake or fraudulent thousands, probably millions of times. So if anything, maybe that points to him being the most motivated he's ever been in his career, and he taps into something that really we've seen in the two thousand and sixteen Western Conference Finals and then the following year when he joined the Warriors, like I referenced before seventeen regular season in playoffs, when he was probably an

all defensive level player. And what it really is, it's just the it's the effort stuff. And it's the same thing with Katie and Kyrie. And that's what you're pointing to as well. It's are they going to bring effort consistently because the tools are there for both of them to be either you know, solid to good or great defenders. It's just committing to doing it. So maybe them being together and and being happy helps motivate them to do that. But I wouldn't say it's a likely outcome, but I

think it is possible. I think it's very possible that they do it and they're, um the best team in the East if they do that. Honestly, if both those guys commit defensively all year, um, they will be the best team in the East in my opinion. So the reason why I put Brooklyn first in our list of topics was because I believe they will win the Eastern Conference. And I'm more when the when the Eastern Conference in the playoffs, they're gonna win the Eastern Conference in the playoffs.

I believe they're gonna make it to the NBA Finals. And the really the reason why is just simply that you know, for as much of a flaw as high end you know, elite defense, and you know, the defensive versatility and all the all of those things lead to uh, you know, contending for a championship, you also need to have elite, high end offensive talent, something that you and

I have talked about a lot. And the truth of the matter is when I go down the list, you know, especially as I was prepping for this podcast, there's just there's just nothing else out there among these other teams that brings enough on the offensive end for me to you know, really feel confident that they could overcome what Brooklyn brings on the offensive end. And you know, there to win the Eastern Conference. If you're Brooklyn and you bring what Kevin Durant and Kyrie do on the offensive end,

of the floor. I don't think you need to be a top ten defense now. You absolutely have to to be whoever comes out of the West in my opinion, But in the Eastern Conference because of the like you're looking at Milwaukee. We know everything we've talked about with and we're gonna talk about it later with johannest and his offensive shortcomings Philly, the clunkiness of Ben Simmons and Joel Embiad. It's it's hard to imagine them necessarily being

hard to guard in a playoff series. And you know, Atlanta and Boston, they their flawed teams, and there's just a lot of like potential for those teams to end up in a situation where regardless of who's guarding them, they're just gonna they're just not gonna have any sort of offensive creation when it gets to a tight moment late in a key playoff series. So I think Brooklyn has enough to get it done in that regard. It's just this is all just about like basically what the

two thousand eighteen calves. You know, it's it's you know, as as cool as it is to make it to the finals, you know that team got absolutely destroyed when they made it to the finals, and it was because of the fact that they couldn't guard anybody, you know, and and obviously, like the Warriors, brought a lot of

talent in that regard. But the point is is, like I do think in the circumstances that are at play in the Eastern Conference, Brooklyn can get away with being a little less effective defensively to get through the East. Now here's where it gets tricky. So can I push back real quick on that? Just a little bit ahead? Not even pushed back. But it's funny that Brooklyn is the favorite to win the East in a lot of ways,

especially in the playoffs. But I also don't think they would be the best matchup against the Lakers in the finals. I think Philly or even Milwaukee would be a better matchup because they are better defensively and if they can bog that Lakers team down in the half court, then you have a better team chance of beating them. But Brooklyn, for the reasons you pointed out, still might be the favorite, just because their offensive talent is so much higher than

any other him in that conference. But I wouldn't I would not be high on them having any chance to meet the Lakers. I would probably higher on Philly or or even Milwaukee or even maybe Miami for that matter, But yeah, go ahead. So I understand the idea behind that, I guess. I guess for me, Like it's what I said about the Lakers going into the finals last year, which was the challenge of guarding these high end Western Conference offenses like Yo Kitchen Murray, like you know, James Harden.

I I thought that they presented challenges that that made it difficult for the Lakers to you know, stop them. They still were able to for enough stretches to win the series. Is but my thing is that when you've got a defense as he lead as the Lakers are, and again just the other night against Phoenix, they went through like a it was like a fifteen or seventeen minute stretch where they gave up like sixteen points. Like the Lakers still have this absolutely suffocating defense when they

lock in. And so from that standpoint, I think that that would expose limited offenses, which I which I believe came out to be true, Like they absolutely laid eggs in the finals against Miami when they when they tricked off a couple of games, but when they really dialed in there in Game six, Miami just literally couldn't find an inch of space, whereas super high end offensive players like Yo Kitchen Murray are able to kind of soften up the Laker defense enough, like a guy like Steph

would be able to soften up the Laker defense enough to find some openings. And for the record, I think Kevin Durant and Kyrie would have moments against the Laker defense where they're gonna light them up, but more than moments. They're so talented they have more than moments. In my opinion, they'll be able to take over whole games and whole stretches of the series, but it might not be enough.

If they can't get stops exactly over the course of seven games, it would probably bear out in the Lakers favorite the Ironically, the best example would be the two thousand sixteen Calves. You're kind of a fringe top ten defense. You're going against a team that has that has all the boxes checked, but your top two guys just go absolutely supernova for a series and you steal it. That

would be what that what their path is. But anyway, so let's bring in the prospect of a James Harden trade, because this is where it gets interesting, because James Harden is a guy that, in my opinion, look at two thousand eighteen, if you give him a situation where he has an alpha dog personality next to him, I et Chris Paul or in this case, Kevin Durant or or Joe l Embid, because we're gonna be talking about Philly

and Brooklyn. If you put an alpha dog personality next to him that won't shrink from the moment the way that James has in his career. And if you put him alongside any a truly high end E leade defense like the two eighteen Rockets were, they can win as even as flawed as James Harden is, because he does even with his offensive flaws, he's he's still one of

the very best offensive players in the league. So you know, we're gonna talk about how I think that the James Harden trade makes a lot of sense for Philly here

in a minute. But I think that him going to Brooklyn, which appears to still be on the table, although I'm reporting from last night said that uh Houston is basically asked Brooklyn to bring a third team into the trade because they don't want Brooklyn's pieces in particular, so requires siphoning a star from another team in Brooklyn sending pieces

over there. It gets complicated. It almost sounds like Billy or nothing at this point, but for sure, Yeah, but the point being like all of the like any hope of that top ten defense from last year that Brooklyn can build on, that goes out the window if you bring in James Harden just in the complicated nature of matching salaries, and you're you're probably gonna have to give up Jared Allen, You're probably gonna have to give up you know, maybe Joe Harris, Like who knows, You're gonna

have to give up a lot of the core pieces that major defense at least a fringe top ten last year. And I do think there's so much of a I talked about this with the Clippers last year when when Lou Williams wasn't or when Paul George was out because

he was rehabbing his shoulders. I was everyone was like, oh man, wait till Paul George gets added to this, And I wanted to be like, actually, you know, when you're humming on all cylinders offensively, there's kind of like a like a plateau there, there's something turns at some point, there's a and if you have three guys that need the ball as much as Hardened, Kyrie and Katie, one guy is getting left out. And we've seen this play out time and again. The Calves are a perfect example

with with Lebron, Kyrie and Katie. You had too heavy Yeah, sorry, Kevin, you had two heavy eyes. So guys, and Kevin Love got relegated a lot to being a spot up shooter. They give him looks early in the game, they give him some post touches, keep him happy, and then he would be a spot up shooter for the rest of

the night. It is just unless two of your three stars are off ball supernovas like Steph and Clay are, it is really hard to mix three stars in that are going to score twenty plus points and have it have any type of continuity offensively. It's just gonna be really clunky on on a lot of nights. Yeah, exactly, and and and and again. I think it's all about

shot quality. So, for instance, like the what worked for the Lakers, even though their role players were flawed, was the fact that their primary too offensive threats generated such high quality looks that guy's Rondo and Danny Green and KCP and Alex Caruso and Markis Morris, guys who are

all considered like below average closeout threats. KCP was pretty good, but the rest of them were considered like close out you know, like guys you kind of not want to leave open, but you're not like super worried about worried about it. But they were making shots. And it's because of the fact that like there is like you said,

there's diminishing returns. The gap between you know, a guy like Alex Caruso and a much better spot up shooter is limited when you factor in that they're always gonna be wide open, and and and and and it just it just changes, you know, your prospects in that regard. So with James Harden, you gotta ask yourself, like, the are the Brooklyn Nets as currently constructed, gonna have any issue scoring the basketball, not even not even one bit.

They're not gonna have any issue. Two great players and two great other secondary creators scoring is not going to be an issue exactly. So the so the question simply becomes what what are you and how like what percentage are you increasing your offensive ceiling by adding James Harden in conjunction with how much if you're because you're not only are you losing a bunch of bodies to match salaries, but you're gonna have to replace them with veteran minimum

players who are still available for some reason. So not the Wesley Matthews veteran minimum guy. You're gonna have to find the like the literally the junk at the bottom of the barrel. Then you're gonna have to Scott Anders and a guy trying to make the Warriors ruster right now, he's probably gonna be on a two way. He would be a guy that would maybe go to Brooklyn that happens just because they need minimum guys and he's he'd

come cheat h exactly. And So from that standpoint, like I just I personally as a basketball fan, hope they don't make this move because if they do, I think it's gonna end up horrible for all three stars involved. They're gonna get absolutely slandered all summer long because they're gonna end up losing in some stupid fashion. Because once you start getting into some late round playoff series and

you're playing your stars forty two minutes a game. Yeah, Like it makes a lot of sense in the regular season, just in the sense that you can do the perfect stagger of two stars and any given time, so like you're always having this like like there's one guy on the bench while the other two are playing, and it kind of works and makes sense like that, But when you get to the playoffs, they're all on the floor all the time because you're just not resting that much.

And I don't know, I just you know, when I when I look at Philly as we as we transition here, when I look at Philly, the there's this clear need for what James Harden brings to the table. He is he is the the perfect puzzle piece for the holes that currently exist in Philly's title like title contention path this season. And they have the they have the necessary pieces to fill in his weaknesses, which is like we

talked about a really really high end defense. Like they're still gonna have Atias Table, They're still gonna have Tobias Hairs, They're still gonna have Joel Embi, They're still gonna have you know, uh Simmons. Well, yeah, well they might have to give up bets. Are we assuming they give up Simmons. Yeah, I think the cleanest open Like, I think they're gonna have to give up Ben Simmons to get him. And and but the point is is that like it's it's

kind of a partnership that makes sense. And then now you can stare Brooklyn in the face and be like, I've got James Harden and Joe el embiide in a top five defense, and you've got Kyrie Irving, who's you know, resting on back to backs, and Kevin Durant who's not really focused on the defensive end, and you guys have had a lot of crazy highlights this year. But we're a we are a surefire proven method to win a title on paper, at least we'll see how it actually

would would would turn out. But that is a that is a that is a proven pathway. We've seen that that exact pathway time and time again win championships in this league. And it may it just makes sense. And so and then if you're Houston, I want Ben Simmons or like like like over Brooklyn. So I am I am excited for Philly to potentially get James Harden because I think it completely changes the prospect of how the Eastern Conference is going to shake out over the next

uh six months. Yeah, And and to be honest, I think Philly has a shot at winning the conference without heart of I think I'm a little bit higher on them than maybe a lot of people are, because they've kind of replicated, at least somewhat similarly the lineup that they had in when they had both when they had Reddick, Butler, Simmons and Eimbid and whoever the fifth wasn't that Covingtons. That lineup I believe had the best net rating in

the league that you're of any five man lineup. They haven't recreated it perfectly, but they've created something similar with the lineup of Simmons, Curry, Harris Embiid and Danny Green. So that's gonna be a super high level defense. They have one of the best shooters in the league in Seth Curry, who I don't know if he's quite a starter level player, but if you put him with a bunch of guys like that, he is a starter level player, he'll be just fine. And he's actually a pretty good

on ball defender too. Um So I think they actually have a chance to win the East even without hardened. But if they get hardened, then I think they become the favorites for sure, because you have deploy candidate and embiid. Danny Green is still a solid defender, even though he's falling off a little bit on that end. Tobias Harris solid.

They wouldn't need the Lakers needed Dan danny Green to guard on the ball, which he was just terrible at the Between thible And and Tobias Harris and uh and Ben Simmons, they have so much on the ball talent that Danny Green will be off the ball all the time. Yeah, exactly, exactly exactly. So I think this Philly team is definitely a team that could when they when these they have seven really good players once you add Dive Bole and Howard into that starting five mix that I just named,

and then I like Shake Milton too. He's a guy that can bring some offensive creation jobs. He looked good at times last year, and if he takes another step, he he provides some of that on ball creator stuff. Obviously nowhere near the level of the hardened, but some of that stuff that they are missing in the starting lineup. Um, So I think they really do have a chance to win the East if it all comes together correctly, and we had seen in the past Doc Rivers with the

right team have some offensive creativity. It wasn't great last year, but I'm who was at a function of the personnel and the personnel kind of being funky on the offensive end. Or is that a function of Doc Rivers the year before. I thought he was super creative offensively the year before they got Kauai. So I think a new voice in the room is really going to help them. Brett Brown, by all accounts a great guy, but Phillip Pans has been complaining about him for years, so in the room

probably helps um. Doc can definitely captain a great defense. They have all the personnel there to do that. If they can figure out things on the offensive end, I think they actually will win the East, even though Brooklyn

is the favorites for now. If Philly's offense is top ten level and Ben Simmons takes another step as kind of a career on ball creator, if Shake Milton takes another step, if embied and who was a top seven top six player consensus Lee a year and a half two years ago and has fallen off just because that

situation became messy. But if he takes another step just as kind of an isoscore and a post up threat and stops floating on the perimeter so much, I think they will win the East, and then I think they can give the Lakers some problems. I would still pick the Lakers in a potential match up with Philly and l A, but I think they have the size to

bother l A, which most teams do not. They have bodies to throw it iron and they have bodies to throw it a dat multiple of each, So I think if the ball bounce right for them, they could absolutely be a title team. We just haven't seen it yet. They have that they've taken some playoff lumps, which is kind of one of the the traditions for any team who does end up winning a title. You don't just go from zero to hero, like they had a Tesugh

series of Boston a couple of years ago. Last year, they had some injuries so they lost in the first round. But like I said, I am higher on Philly than most. I think they can. They're going to be a really good team. They're a top three seed in the East.

As long as they don't have any injury concerns, And I think they can definitely beat Broken that can definitely beat Milwaukee, and they can give the Lakers a series or whoever comes out of the West in the follow So I think they're they're gonna be a really really good team. Well, I you're right, I probably should have I should pay the their proper respects as currently constructed as a hard harden changes the whole equation. But yeah, exactly.

And and just bringing into you know, Danny Green had a rough shooting season last year, but it wasn't as bad as people like Laker Twitter. Lakers Twitter can be very hard on people, and and I was hard on Danny Green two, but primarily for what he did on the defensive end. But the truth of the matter is that, you know, bringing in Curry and Green just open things up. Ditching Horford out of their rotations are gonna open things

up for Mbeed. That was huge. I I agree with you that they have a legitimate chance to win the East. I would pick Brooklyn now, but I agree with you that they have a chance. Where I where I fall where I give where I would push back on the idea of keeping Ben Simmons and not going after someone like Harden is my classic ideology as it pertains to gambling. You know, like if I was betting on, you know, the Dallas Cowboys this weekend and I put two bucks on the game, I'm just I'm not gonna get rich.

I don't know what to tell you like that. You're you're only gonna get rich if you push your chips into middle. And all I know is as good as Ben Simmons is, and as as good and as bright as his feature, as bright as his future looks, the reality is as as currently constructed. I don't think they can beat the Lakers. I'm not even sure they could

beat the Clippers. So as far as I'm concerned, and it's it's kind of a toss up with Brooklyn so but as far as I'm concerned, bringing in James Harden, who you and I disagree because you think he's outside the top ten, but I think he's around the eighth

best player in the league. Bringing in a bona fide top a top ten player with Joel Embid, who I think I had at thirteen in my on my list, and then with all of the surrounding pieces, because it's a it's a straight up swap, Like, even if you have to give up draft draft picks, which we'll talk about in a second, I'm a big believer of the fact that that, as crazy as it sounds, And even though it seems like you're giving up some of your long term prospects and and you know, Ben Simmons is

future and future and stuff like that, I think it's an opportunity to steal a ring. And and and and I think that as good as their prospects are this season with the with Ben Simmons is currently constructed, I think they're discernibly better with James Harden in that role, filling in that elite offensive creation that they need and allowing them to have a clear cut pathway to potentially

be the best team in the league. And and and here's the other thing too, Like, over a couple of weeks, guy watched that All Star game again, um, the one, the one where they played with the elm ending Oh yeah, and Joel Embiide with the game on the line, is posting up Lebron and it's not game point yet, but it's almost game point, and he just hits Lebron with this vicious dream shake and drains like a ten footer or over the top. And I don't know if you

remember that game. That game was like super high pressure for intense. It was the first intense form of basketball. There is no more intense. It was insane. Every single player was sweaty palms, like losing their mind, like like like Joanna said, the greatest block I've ever seen in my life when he payed the bronze lap on the

class like it was insane. And in the reality is is Joel Embiid has not had a chance to go toe to toe with the game's greats at the highest level because of the fact that Ben Simmons has had some flaws and he's had some bad injury luck over the years. He's not you know, I mean, and he's he's not a hundred percent blameless. But my point is is,

like James Harden can gets you to that spot. James Harden can get Joel Embiid to a high game in the fourth quarter of the Eastern Conference Finals against Kevin Durant, and joe El Embiid can can just rely on his ridiculously like his alpha mentality is up there with the best players in the league. And James Harden could help unlock that. And so I think it's such a no brainer and and and honestly I hope they do it sooner than later. But I mean I to to kind

of put a bow on this. They should absolutely do it. If it's if it's on the table and it's basically just a hardened Simmons swap, you gotta do it. Like as much flak as I give Harden, I do always preface that by saying he is one of the most talented offensive players in the league. It's all the other stuff.

And if you can trust Dalc enough, um, if you can trust like you're saying and beating up, and then some of the veteran leadership on that team, uh, Mike Scott, Danny Green, Tobias Harris, all really good guys with really strong leadership qualities to bring out the best and Harden and get rid of some of that stuff that that makes him kind of a franchise tanker at times. And Yeah, they definitely go to They would instantly probably be number one or number two in terms of UM title favorites.

And they brought in the right guy in the front office to push in all the chips. Well, I've definitely been critical of Mori in some respects, and that's more related to how he views offensive basketball and kind of the math equasion of the whole thing and how that plays out in the playoffs. The guy absolutely pushes all of his chips in and he's an incredible GM when it comes to just acquiring talents, um, you know, working salaries to make sure every everything goes right. And I

mean we saw that this offseason. He changed that entire roster in like three weeks. It was incredible. Um. I mean he has a chance if he pulls off the Harden Dealds too, he'll be executive the year for sure. Um. So yeah, I mean the Harden deal is a no brainer if it's on the table, and they should absolutely do it today if they can get James hardened, because they become at worst the second favorite to win the title.

So let's uh really quickly, I think, because this is something that I think is one of my ideologies too, that it gets lost from time to time. The the and Darryl More happens to be from the ideology of not overvaluing first round picks, especially not late round first round picks, because just like what happened with the Lakers this year. Yeah, they had like I think they had like the pick or something like that. But I mean in terms of what it's league value was worth, it

was considered worth Danny Green for Dennis Shrewder. That's what it was considered to be worth. And and whoever that draft pick could be used on is not going to be used on anybody of enough quality to really help you in your rotation anyway. And Philly's really really deep. So this is where I this is where I would say pull the trigger. What is continuity worth? Because if I could get James Harden in here tomorrow, I basically

have a full season to build this with him. And of course, if they hold out to the trade deadline, they can probably get it to be a clean swap with Ben Simmons for James Harden, just as all the other trade offers kind of disappear into the ether. But the reality is is like, if they want two first round picks, give them two first round picks, give them your next two first round picks. They're not worth anything to you. They're worth very little to you, I guess.

And the and the reality is is that Continuity is going to be what gives you that chance, especially since James Harden coming in gives you a small window to contend. I know he's got a couple of years left on his contract, but he's getting a little bit older too. So the reality is you've got this two or three year window here where you can go after it get

some continuity. This year's punky, weird season anyway, The team that is considered the best in the league has a thirty six year old, thirty six year old superstar who two years ago got hurt and missed the playoffs. So the point is, it's like, like I am of the persuasion that they need to do this now and that bartering over this this stupid stuff. Not only will it hurt them in continuity, but who knows what team could come flying in out of nowhere and make a James

Harden trade. I mean, like like it could have been. It could be Minnesota could just lose their mind tomorrow and give Anthony Edwards and and and D'Angelo Russell and go we're gonna do you know, Carl, Anthony Towns and James Harden for a few years, Like you don't know what could happen I think they need to go after it. Yeah, no, they should. But the only thing I'd say is Maury doesn't like the optics of ever losing a trade, and he just gave up some picks to get off the

Horpord money. And also he doesn't value things like continuity or chemistry. He said it like on record before that he really just doesn't value that stuff. So I don't think that will factor into too much of a mathematician, No, he totally, He totally is. That's his issue. That's his issue. He said, you know, just get as many stars as you can then figure it out and without really looking at Okay, how did the team dynamics playing this? And

maybe he's learned a little bit. I think he has, probably through losing to the Warriors over and over and over again, he's he's probably learned his lesson a little bit. But if that's like the deciding factor whether the conduity's gonna matter or not, I think he's gonna hold out and wait until the deadline. But they should do it now,

like no question. I agree. I would get him in there and and just start because there's gonna be also this extended process where he's got to get in shape and stuff like, might as well have him learned in the playbook pictures real of course not there, of course they've been edited one but the one from the Bubble was faked, but I think the one from the other night was supposed to be real. He he looks huge even in like game the game action. He looks really big,

even for James Harden. I, I definitely have an unending amount of skepticism for pictures of people's physical fitness after what I thought was I on last year before the Pubble and then he was fat and slow. But but that said, like, you know, the the thing with James, and he actually came out and said in his interview, um, yesterday after the game, or it might have yesterday or the day for but he basically said, like, I haven't

played five and five and forever. All I've done is individual workouts, and NBA players will tell you that, you know, the only real conditioning is five on five, which I think is NBA players speak for. I put on a few but like, but of course that's what happened. But my I I he's famously durable. He's gonna get back in shape a lot of and you know, never get injured.

He never ever gets injured. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, and like, and don't get me wrong, like he's been a literally a whiny little bit for lack of a better term, this last season. But the truth of the matter is he's gonna get into Philly. He'll be reinvigorated. The Philly fans won't let him get away with his bullshit by

the way. That well, I don't. I don't think dok will even I think the situation in LA was just weird last year for whatever reason, just because the the roster dynamic and some of the stuff the PG and docks pass whatever. But yeah, I don't think he would take crapromarten either, really, So yeah, no, I think they would definitely whip him into shape more than almost any franchise cut outside of like Miami for sure. Alright, so we have four rapid fire teams to go through before

we get Owau the forgotten number one seed. Well, just I think the honest extension is good for basketball in a couple of ways. Not to get too crazy about, like player empowerment, player movement, all that stuff, but I think it it helps the casual fan feel like every superstar isn't just going to go to the next super team and team up with three superstars. And even though we see the ratings increase when that stuff happens, people

complain more. So there's less of like bad energy around the league, which I think does matter, even though all that stuff is kind of fake in a way, but it does matter that there's less bad energy around the league. But I think the more important point is it makes small markets feel like they actually have a chance again. The last couple of superstars who have like really been extension eligible, and like Lebron and Katie, basically the guys who were two of the three best players of the

last fifteen years are ten years. Let's say they both left smaller markets to pursue bigger markets super teams. Lebron did it a couple of times, Katie's done it, I guess twice now. Even though the Warriors are a big market, but Booklyn's even a bigger market. So I think it it it's gonna help during the next c B a UM from a perspective of the small market owners aren't just gonna, you know, demand all kinds of crazy stuff

as protections against superstars leaving. And I think what this really does, though, is it puts the onus on the honest to bring a championship to Milwaukee. He could demandag right in twenty four Buns, I think you have to be at least one year into the extension before you can actually get traded if you sign the super max UM. But I think he's taken responsibility for saying, look, I'm gonna bring a championship to this city, which is a

huge burden. We all know that's a huge burden. But he can definitely be better to to kind of go into the the buck situation here. He can become a better player, Like there are there are massive holes in this game. And I know you agree with me on this. There are massive holes in his game that keeps showing up during the playoffs and he's still unbelievable. Nobody's saying

he's not a great player. Um, But the lack of a jump shot, the lack of super high level decision making, which is harder developed than I think the jump shot, UM. That that stuff that he has to improve on. And if he does, then I think they have a chance to win a championship. But he has to go to an entirely another level against the best teams in the league, not against the Charlotte Hornets on a Tuesday at five pm. But yeah, old to my basic thoughts on the Gaunt extension.

So for to be clear upfront, I hope the honest days for the entire contract. I truly do for all the same reasons you just mentioned. However, I am fearful that this is the new NBA free agency for a superstar. And what I mean by that is, if you look back in NBA history, recent NBA history, there are a lot of examples of of a team being informed that a player was leaving and so they conduct a sign

and trade. So essentially, you know, for you know, when Kevin Durant went, or when Kevin Durant went to Brooklyn, they shift back to Angelo Russell. When when Chris Paul decided to go back to go to Houston, they shipped back you know, Montrese, Harrold and Williams and Patrick Beverley. When Lebron went from Cleveland to Miami, Miami sent back some draft picks and train exception, right, and he didn't trade exception. The point is is like once they decided

they were going to lose him, for nothing. Once they understood they were going to lose those players for nothing,

they were willing to accept whatever came. And so what I'm fearful of is that similar to what happened with Paul George Um because there's been some reporting done that there was an under the table agreement with him and Sam Presty about him potentially wanting to leave, which makes sense when you think about it, because it was confusing that he signed that three year extension when he did after a night free agency started, like immediately right away,

when when when they lost in the first round in horrific fashion, when his co star basically shot them out of the series, Like, it was really confusing when that happened. And so my concern would be that that Janice went up to them and was like, here's the deal. You have two options. I could go into free agency this year and decide where I want to go, or you can lock me up for five years and you'll have

me under contract. But you have to understand, under the table, this is an agreement between my agent and you privately that if I wish to be traded somewhere, you trade me where I want to go, and you can pick whatever assets from that team, you know, within reason to

get back so that you don't lose me for nothing. Yep, I mean, and let's not forget the same thing happened with an Anthony Davis exactly, and I don't know if there was any under the table agreement there, but he signed his extension, essentially got his money and thought, you know, four months down the road, I can do whatever I want. I can MANI trade and they literally have to listen

to me because I just won't play. Yeah, I see where you're going and it it definitely could be an issue for the league, but continue well, because the thing is is like, so now say you're Milwaukee. So your Milwaukee and Joannice has just come to you and said, I'm thinking about even you know or I'm not sure and I don't know, and there's a chance you lose

me for nothing. So now I get to choose between the risk of losing him for nothing or signing him to this deal and potentially losing him at some point in the future, which the which the reality is if he's gonna stay, Like if over the course of this season that Janice wins a title and he decides he's going to stay, then he would have signed a five year max in the summer anyway. So regardless of what happens this year, Milwaukee's in the same position this summer,

no matter what. The extension doesn't really necessarily change that the pressure. No matter what. The only way the the the extension really gives Milwaukee power is if it is really the traditional extension where Janice has told the front office he wants to stay here forever, which very well may have been the case. And like I said, I hope that's what he said. But what I'm saying is kind of like what happened with Paul George, And who knows what this Paul George situation with the Clippers if

it's not a similar type of format. But I'm worried that this might be a new trend of essentially strong arming franchises into saying you can either lose me for nothing potentially, or you can let me get traded to where I want to go and you get to then take your pick of whatever you want from that team. They'll be thrilled because they're getting honest. You'll be thrilled because you're not losing me for nothing if you don't sign me to this extension, I might just leave for nothing.

So this kind of just it's it's almost like it's almost like a delay. It's it's yeah, it's it's like you're kind of in pseudo free agency. Every year, even the franchise a grace period. You're given the Franchi the grace period basically, and and then and then you basically threatened them with all hell from your agent if they did violate their end of the verbal agreement, basically the way it would work. Yeah, exactly, No, I think you're spot on. But how do we feel about the Bucks

this year? Do we think they have any shot to win the title? So? Real quick? They added you to Holiday, but they lost George Hill, Eric Blood so in West Matthews, So they lost three of their best perimeter defensive players on the team, at least perimeter defensive players at the guard. Here's the here's the biggest thing that scares me. Uh,

Drew Holiday is incredible. He's a really really good player, especially on the defensive vent and he has a resume of getting of raising hell with with the best guards in the league. With on the defensive end, without a doubt, here's the problem with Drew he can't guard wings really well and well defined wings because he struggles against Lebron,

but Lebron just overpowers them, That's what I'm saying. So, so Drew Holiday in the inevitable trip to the finals, Drew Holiday is gonna have to guard potentially you know what they're what they might ask him to guard is a is a Lebron or Kevin Durant, and that that role used to fall to Wesley Matthews on that team. And Wesley Matthews is one of the better big, strong

wing defenders in the league. And so that was my concern was just that, like you know, Drew Holiday failed to fix their biggest problem, which was high end e lee offensive creation. And he may or may not have been a defensive wash, if not a loss, because while he's a little bit better against cards, he's not as good against wings as Wesley Matthews was. Like Wesley Matthews was their go to guy against the best wings in the league, so that they could have Janice be a

help defender. That was what they were doing with Jimmy Butler. They were having you know, uh, Janice play the help defender. And and the point is is unless Janice wants to take that role, which maybe he does, unless Heihannie wants to take that on ball role. Like, I just don't see the trade off. It kind of It kind of reminds me of the idea of Brooklyn executing a James Harden trade. It's like, okay, cool, but you're not fixing

your problems. Yeah, and that's where I get concerned. I'd say they addressed issues, right, Like they addressed some of the offensive creation stuff that they've been lacking, especially if we're going to compare it to Eric Bledsoe and George Hill. We're fine players, good players in the NBA, but Drew Holiday is much better. And yeah, they they addressed issues, but it might not be the right ones. As you're alluding to that their wing defense is not any better.

It really isn't. So the NBA is so matchup based in the playoffs, and if you don't have the right guys to guard the best players in the league, you're probably gonna lose the series that you're playing it. And if you don't have the right guy to guard Kevin Durant or Lebron James or Kawai Leonard or Steph Curry, any of these guys, you're you're going to be in hell and so just looking at the roster, I don't even know who they would put on the brand at

this point. You' putt Middleton on them? Are you putting your honest on them? And maybe maybe the goal is having three really good offensive creators. With the honest Middleton and Drew, you can allow your honest take on some more defensive responsibility. You can even allow Middleton take on some more defensive responsibility because their offensive load isn't so heavy.

So maybe that's the thought process with Drew is Okay, let's get another guy who's a really good creator in here, who can get his own shot, who can create for others. You know, he's been upboards of six assists multiple times in his career, even though he does dribble too much.

Sometimes I would assume that was their thought process. But all in all, I don't think they address the right issues, and I still have them as a They might be a great regular season team again, and they probably will be, just because of the way they play and the fact they play in the Eastern Conference, but I still see them as a fake title contenderfinitively third behind Brooklyn and Philly. Absolutely, and especially if the Harden trade happens. I don't even

think it's a question that they're in the conference. But even as currently constructed, I would still have them. If we're just talking about chances to make the finals, I would have them third, and maybe even fourth or fifth. I would maybe even like Austin, Yeah, Auston or even Miami. I'm I'm a Heat, you know, sell it to a certain extent. I always believe in the culture there. I believe in the guys they have there um and I think some of the young guys would take another step.

But I could see them easily being kind of fifth in that picking order in terms of teams that can make the finals. They just, like I said, they addressed issues, but not the correct ones. So well, we'll see what happens. But I'm I am maybe just on the same level in terms of optimism for their year as I was last year. But I picked the Heat to beat the Bucks in the playoffs last year, so I feel the

same way. I still think the Heat, well, the Bucks will probably address some of the issues that plagued them in that series. I still think that he would beat him in a seven game series. I really do well. Drew is a clear you know, is a clear improvement as a pick and roll ball handler, as a primary decision maker over George Hill like and and taking the ball out of Honest's hands a little bit without a doubt.

But the point is is, like, like Drew Holiday is considered, you know, somewhere around the best player in the league because of what he brings on the defensive end. Offensively, he's pretty sporadic, Like he's solid. Yeah, he's really up and down. Yeah, he's He's like, Drew Holiday is a lot closer to his brothers in terms of offensive creation than he is to the like, to the high end

guards in the league. And I'm not saying he's better than his brothers, but my point is is he's closer to that than he is to the high endguards game or staff or any of these are the best guards in the league, definitely. So so your idea was to improve that offensive creation element. The truth of the matter is is you're gonna find yourself in these matchups where Drew is gonna not be the best guard on the floor.

So yeah, and so I don't understand how how it necessarily raises their ceiling enough to be especially when you factor in like what they paid for him, like it's it's unbelievab perst round picks. Three first round picks got assign the extension, so it achieved a goal. But you're still giving up so much capital for Drew Holiday. Like you said, fine player, but nothing special. And you took

yourself out of the Harden race. And he actually came out, well, he didn't come out and say, but he leaked to UH to either Sham's or Woach that he potentially wanted to go to Milwaukee. And and I tweeted on the night of the Drew Holiday trade, I said, well, why would you take yourself out of be Like, why would you take help out of whoever else might come. I don't know why they didn't go after Beal. I don't know.

I don't understand why more teams haven't pursued you. I think people are just because he's stuck in Washington and he was really, really, really bad defensively last year. He would have helped two or three title contenders immediately and bothered them to one of the favorites to do. He's one of the most dynamic offensive players in the week. He is incredible on that end of the floor, So if you put good defensive personnel around him, he'll be

passable on that end. And then he gives you one of the more high level shot creators in the weak the whole thing that can throw a wrench in This from Milwaukee in a good way. As if Janice becomes one of the best post players in the league, which which is his path to a title. I still don't know why they have him hanging out around the three point arcs so much. Yes, you want him in transition bringing the ball up, I get that totally. He's he's one of the most lethal transition forces in the league

and the half court. They need to do more stuff off the elbow for him. They need to do more stuff kind of midpost, low block, because that's where he's really good. They started going to that in the Miami series right before he heard his ankle, and he was absolutely destroyed Miami in that first half. I want to say, he had twenty four points on like ten of twelve shooting.

They couldn't stop him. So that is the way that they would have a chance to actually win the title is he becomes just this absolutely dominant post player because he has obviously the strength and the athleticism to do it. It's okay, Kenny add really simple a hook with each hand, you know, six ft in the rim, and Kenny had a little fade away. That's not it doesn't have to bet.

But Kenny shoot at you know, Kenny, Kenny shoot at forty two to where it's like, all right, we don't want to give it up to him because he can't make it. The problem is he released a video of him shooting step back jumpers and then he in his preseason came out in his preseason interview, he basically came out and said this year, I'm gonna have the ball more out on the premium. It's basically what he said. It's the craziest thing going. Man, I don't understand it.

After the life of me, I don't understand the development tract that they're taking. But to your point, though, and I was gonna add the same thing, and you you beat me to it, and I think you're absolutely right. The big wild card for Milwaukee is, be honest, if he goes from being the sixth best player in the league to being the second or third best player, in the league, all of a sudden they become a way more interesting team. All right, So for time purposes, let's

let's hit our rapid fire here. So we're gonna do it. Since you just brought up Dealist to Washington, first, what are your thoughts on Washington. Um, I think there'll be a playoff team for sure. As much crap as I give Russ for being this highly, highly flawed player, he definitely raises when he has the ball a lot. He raises your ceiling as um or raises your floor, I should say, as a regular season team, So he's gonna

he's gonna play hard every night. I think he'll and he'll remotivate deal in some ways to maybe play a little bit harder on the defensive end. They have too high level shot creators. Now. They have a bunch of shooters there. If I'm recalling it correctly, I think they were the best offense in the league last year, but they were also the worst defense. They have a ton of offensive talent, and they should get the defense to maybe passable levels, like instead of thirty in the league

and in the East. If you're a top five offense in the twentieth defense you should definitely make the playoffs. So I think off team, but they're low level playoff teams, somewhere six through eight. And yeah, I think there'll be a fun team on a lot of nights because Russ is still Russ and he can still do Russ stuff and feel, like I said, he is one of the best shot creators in the league. That dude is incredible as a perimeter shot creator. They'll they'll be a fun watch,

but there you know, a first round exit, no likelihood. Yeah. So, I think one of the biggest reasons why they were so good offensively last year is that they were so bad as a team that they got the worst defensive effort from everybody every night. I think they still will be one of the best offenses in the league this year, but as a team that gets everybody's better shot because Russ and and Bradley will beat you if you don't

bring your better shot. Um that I would put them as about the second best offense in the Eastern Conference behind Brooklyn in terms of you know, a team that would as a team that's going to get a better focused defensive effort from the people they play every night. Again, they don't defend anywhere near well enough to have any

hope of really competing or contending. But I think they're going to be a very interesting team in the East all year long, somewhere middle of the pack, bottom of the East, and they're gonna be huge pain in the asked to beat in a playoff series because in any given series, they might have the two best players on the floor, depending on if Russ brings you know, any

sort of uh like Russ is. Just the thing with us is it's like he's so used to playing one way that when Houston leaned on him playing that way in the middle of the last season, they want a bunch of games, and he put up crazy numbers. But as soon as things kind of shift, and whether it's based on him getting injured or whether it's based on, you know, just James Harden doing James Harden stuff, as soon as things shift into him being in a beta role,

he his impact falls off of a cliff. Like in an alpha role, he's like a fringe top fifteen player, but in a beta role he's like barely a top thirty player. That I mean, that's the issue if you're if you have to be the alpha and you're only top ten, top fifteen. When you do that, you're basically a first round exit. That's basically you're ceiling, or maybe

a second round if you get lucky. I don't see them pushing anyone because of Russ's flaws that always become more evident in a playoffs year, especially if he's having to share touches with bo and it's like kind of a pseudo one A one B type thing where Russ isn't the main guy. We we saw it with Paul George. I think he is probably a better offensive player than

Paul George. He's more dynamic in my opinion. But they lost in the first round both year in a row when they were together, so I think it's gonna be actually a somewhat similar situation. Okay, see they won't be as good defensively, but offensively it'll probably be somewhat similar, and they won't in my opinion, I don't think they even have a right matchup. Maybe they can get somebody in the first round, but I don't see it. No, I agree with you. Think the reality is the Eastern

Conference is different than it used to be. I railed on the Eastern Conference all year last year for being weak at the bottom, and they were, they were historically at the bottom, but at the top they were as strong as they had been in decades. And the reality is is Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Philly and Boston is a hellish first first round a series to go on the road for and swap one of those teams out for the Miami Heat, the team that made the finals last year,

if you want to. But again, like I'm with you, I just think they're gonna be interesting, and I like interesting in it and it adds to the overall talent level that exists in the Eastern Conference. All right, let's do Atlanta, um. But they added Rondo, Dinero, Gallinarian, Bogdan Bogdanovitch. I think there's a clear mandate for them to make the playoffs right from ownership. It seems like, you know, this is kind of a make or break here for that front office maybe, and I think maybe they have

the pieces to do it. I like a lot of their young guys. I'm a big fan of Herder, I'm a big fan of fan of Cambraddish. I really like the a Kong Woo pick. I think he's gonna be a really dynamic defensive player right away. In the NBA, John Collins is an awesome offensive four slash five man. He can pick and pop, you can shoot threes. He's an incredible role man with really good gravity. And then of course Trey Young, I mean Trey Is. I'm super super critical of Trey because of play style and shot

selection and literally not even trying on defense. But he's also like maybe a top three, top five most dynamic creator in the entire league. He has greater natural passing, vision and feel. He's an incredible shock creator for himself. He can get threes off from thirty five ft. He has a really good floating game for a guy his size. He draws fouls really well, he can get to the rim.

He's a super duper dynamic offensive player. The key to them making the playoffs, I think is maybe listening his role a little bit on offense and giving some of these other guys Bogdanovich Um Gallinari some more offensive touches to take the burden of Trey and getting him to not the worst defensive player in the league. I don't even think he'll ever be a possible defensive player just

because of his size. He is a tiny, tiny dude, um with not great defensive instincts, but you've got to get him to just at least be like a regular negative instead of maybe the worst defender in NBA history, at least in modern history. Um. So I think they can make the playoffs. A lot of that I think is gonna come down to what type of player Tray is because I think most of their role players, you basically know what you're gonna get, especially the bets that

they brought in. They brought in some solid vets and they also run in Chris Dunn, who was actually a really nice guy to pair with Trey and some minus because of how versatile he is defensively. So I think they'll probably be bottom run play off team. Um, you know, if Trey can bring the requisite level of effort on the defensive, and because if he can't, they're going to be so bad defensively. Yet again, he's just he's a turnstyle on that, but he's He's also one of the

most talented offensive players in the league. So I think he can lead a top five offense if everything breaks right. Yeah, I agree, And and they do have some defensive pieces around him. At least the ironically their younger players, not

their events. Yeah yeah, those guys. But so what's interesting to me about Atlanta is there like the anti Philly in this regard where you know, as we talked about in in the Tuesday Pod, like you kind of have to have really good luck to end up as a team not a small Atlanta is not a small market. It's a huge city, but it's a small NBA market because they don't have a huge, you know, expansive fan base.

But the truth matter is is like to win as a to have to really truly contend for a title in a smaller market, you need to hit on multiple draft picks, and so a lot of teams just don't have the patients to do that the way that Philly did to get Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid or you know the way that you know, Golden State just hit the absolute lottery on three consecutive massive draft picks that Step at seven, Play at eleven, and then Draymond at

thirty five. It's impossible to replicate that exactly two of them, Like Clay is almost not even a lottery pick, and Draymonds the second round pick that doesn't happen exactly. And so what's interesting to me about this is this is Atlanta basically saying, like, we don't have the patients to sit here and try to win the lottery a couple of times to contend. We got one star that we really like who's great for our fan base, so we're

gonna leave. We're gonna go pay a bunch of veterans uh more than they probably deserve, and we're okay being a fringe playoff team and and just you know, trying to contend that way, not entirely unlike the Joe Johnson experience, but but it's just funny to me because like it's like it's it's kind of like they have these teams that are in this situation usually have lots of cap space every season, but instead of doing what Philly did, like just throwing you know, twenty million at J. J.

Reddick first season to just fill cap space to keep to maintain your flexibility, they're just like, screw it, We're gonna sign all these guys and we'll go all in.

And it kind of sucks because unless you know, like literally unless John Colins or like John Collins just blows up into a top fifteen NBA player, They're just never gonna to raise their their their ability to raise their ceiling at this point is now significantly limited because now they're gonna be picking in the fifteens every year, even lowering their chances even further to potentially hit on another

draft pick. Sorry, Kevin Herder's not Clay Thompson, and you know, and and it's it's just it's kind of like they're an example of just like of of NBA small market purgatory from better time. I think they are a sleeping giant in a lot of ways. I think they have the chance to be a big market if they were

to actually have some real, real playoffs success. But I think the Joe Johnson Hawks are actually a great comparison point because it seems like they're just contemp saying, you know what, through we're gonna be a bottom two mid run playoff team. Um, they signed Bobdanovitch to what like four years seventy two, uh, galling our his contract is at least a couple of years. So yeah, they're just they're gonna be second NBA purgatory, which, hey, if you're just trying to to make a little bit of money

every years ownership, that's your goal. If you don't actually care about winning titles, then yeah so, but it could all blow up in their face because I don't think. I don't know. Trey Young seems like a guy to me who really cares about the optics of his career. And I don't know if he'll ever want to be on a championship contender, but I can see that, you know, just from an optic standpoint, he wants that because he wants to be considered in the upper one of the league,

and Atlanta isn't going to provide that to him. It doesn't seem like especially made this off he'son, unless you know Herder isn't Clay but maybe Reddish Relie pops Um. If everything goes right for him, he could be a

damn good player on both ends of the ball. He's already a good defensive player, and if he keeps progressing like he did in his rookie year on the offensive and he could be a really really good player on that at a dynamic off the dribble shooter with some creation shops, a guy with a mid range game can shoot from three, can get to the rim just enough to keep you honest, Um, So it could work out for them. I mean they're I think they're ding big on the young guys that they have right now. But

we'll see how that works. It's a big bet because besides Tray, none of these guys have a clear path to top ten Top Tip team. Yeah, no, I agree, and the Reddish real quickly. Reddish, my my worry with him is his confidence. When I watch him play, he strikes me as a player that has like like the mentality of a tenth man off the bench with the talent of Paul George. I was gonna say, there are big Paul George vibes there, like if it breaks the right way, Paul George is kind of the same guy,

is really good by the way. Yeah, Atlanta becomes infinitely more. That's a win. Um, all the tools are there. But I mean Paul George goes through about to re struggles with his confidence. So maybe Reddish is just so talented it ends up working out for them. M I'll see. So two more we got, We'll do Miami next. So Miami added Mo Harkless and Avery Bradley, but they're more or less the same team. I I don't see more

more Heartless or Avery Bradley is moving the needle. I think they're more or less going to be relying on the same Heartless is basically going to slide into Jay Crowder's role. Um. Avery Bradley to me is kind of redundant because they brought back draw Jich and they're gonna be leaning on Harrow a lot. And I guess maybe Avery Bradley takes Kendrick Nuns minutes um, which is which

is a clear upgrade of my opinion. I And I'm not a Kendrick Dunnan, and he just he's one of those guys where it's like, oh, he looks great on a bad team because he can do some stuff on offense and he can score some points, but he's such a sive on defense, and then he doesn't create well enough on offense to actually make you a good offensive team. It just looks good. It's a it's an aesthetic thing.

And you've talked about that a lot with certain players, how the aesthetics matters so much and how we evaluate certain guys on the offensive end, and it really is crazy. Well, that's the if Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving make it to the finals. It's gonna be the aesthetics Championship because it's gonna be too to somewhat ugly offensive players who who do so much more to impact winning against two of the prettiest basketball players ever offensively, and if the

Lakers win, it's gonna be kind of a referendum. But I I don't think Miami's championship run was a fluke. I don't know. But Brooklyn and Philly are here now and they weren't here last year, and I think they're clearly better. So that's kind of where I'm at. It's not that I disrespect Miami. It's just that if Janice gets any better, and if Brooklyn and Philly are what we expect them to be, your best case scenario suddenly becomes being the fourth best team in the East, even

if you're the same team that took the Lakers. Yeah, And the the issue is they did go to the finals, right, so they only got seventy whatever days off, So any of their young guys who were looking to improve, bam hero, I mean, any any of their young guys no off season, no off season, no offseason all, They're gonna be tired. They're two best offensive creators and they're old, so now coming off pretty bad. Yeah, Dragon is coming off a pretty bad foot injury, like he couldn't even really play

towards the end of the bubble. So yeah, I just I love Miami. I'm always a believer in what they do. And I think they have a punch of chance in any playoffs series just from an overall toughness standpoint, Like you're gonna get everything that they have UM in every

game in every series, So they could beat anybody. But I think they're at best the clear cut third team, and I could see the bottom falling out and their six or seven if you know, a couple of injuries, a couple of things don't go right, and you know, Jimmy injury, a Bam injury really really sets them back. Those guys are both so important to them. UM. Anytime that those two guys missed, they could almost miss the

playoffs in a way. So and and the last thing I'll say about Miami before we move on to Boston is just kind of similar to the honest But a lot of their ceiling just has to do with how much better band gets if Bam kind of starts to expand because what murdered the heat in Game six is Bam Bam couldn't shoot, and so Anthony Davis was literally just playing like two three zoning the paint, which absolutely

shut Miami down. And if Bam literally becomes a dependable three point shooter, if if if Ban becomes a if Bam just kind of progresses and that next level of his star rise to startom, that could be something that raises their ceiling as well. But like no offseason, Yeah, what do we think overall about his offensive ceiling Because I go back and forth on it. He's obviously a really good like point center or whatever you want to call it. He's an incredible creator for his size. He's

super fluid with the ball in his hands. But I go back and forth on his scoring potential because some nights it looks like, oh, he's comfortable shooting jump shots, and then other nights it's like like the one you just pointed out, it's like he's terrified even look at the rim outside of fifteen, and guys like that, Guys who were like really scared to even shoot jump shots,

they tend to not develop as scores too much. Like Anthony Davis was like willing to shoot jump shots as soon as he came into the NBA, and eventually he became a good jump shooter, like a really good one. We saw that this year in the bubble. I don't know if Bam can become even close to an a D level jump shooter, he'll be one of the best players in the league for sure. I just don't even know if that's a realistic outcome for him. As much as I wanted to that he follows a Kauai esque

were early in his career leans on his defense. But the team privately, with their player development, is just refining and refining and refining, because there are examples of players with immense physical gifts who weren't much offensively early on and then they developed. So that would be that that would be the hope. And if there's a team that can do it, would be Miami for there. Definitely, definitely,

And he does have good touch. You got good touch on floats and stuff, so the potential for a solid jump shot at least is there. It's definitely a big swing factor for them for the coming couple of years. I agree, and and look, I mean like I picked Milwaukee to beat Miami because I massively underrated Jimmy Butler, and it's clear that he's capable of going toe to toe with the best players in the league. So if you add Bam as a top fifteen level player to that,

all of a sudden they become much more interesting. Boston lost Gordon Hayward, added Tristan Thompson. Those are the main key ones, although Kemba Walker is going to be out for at least a month with something going on with his knee. At how bad is that Mba contract looking? How bad is that especially when really bad? Um, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to overpay Gordon Hayward because at least he's a big wing and there's some versatility there that he brings. Or

just keep Cherry Rose here at a lesser price. Yeah, like a Kimball's. Kemba is way better than Terry Rozier. Don't get me wrong, I don't want selfic fans angry self expands. I mentioned, but small guards in the playoffs. Man Kenba is a true small guard, Like he's smaller than even step and Daymar and those guys have such a tough time deep in playoff series and now he's

apparently he has knee issues. So the thing that he relies on is his quickness and his and his and to end speed, and now that might take a hit. Like I think he's still got three years or ninety million left, good luck. And I think Tatum popps bilier than they expected, so that they weren't expecting Tatum to be Tatum as early as he is. UM. But yeah, So overall thoughts on Boston, I think they're more or less the same team. Christan Thompson will obviously help us

an interior presence which they didn't have last year. UM, And that's why Miami beat them because absolutely destroyed by BAM, Tristan is not going to get destroyed by BAM. Tristan is at least at the very least, he has the toughness and the grit to kind of stonewall BAM enough

in a series to where he doesn't just absolutely dominate. Um. They're a middle tier playoff team unless Tatum takes another huge step and becomes the sixth fifth best player in the league, and then they can win any series because as a score, he's super, super dynamic, and where he really struggled lest year was late in games, which is what a lot of young really good scores do. They can score for the first three quarters, you know, but late in the game, they just don't quite have the chops.

And it really showed in UM in both the Toronto and the Miami series. I thought even the Toronto series he struggled down the stretch and a lot of those games. So it would it would. Their ceiling ultimately depends on Tatum and Brown taking another step as players, and once again weird off season, short off season. I'm not banking on any young guys who were in the NBA UM this last year taking a big step at least that they were in the playoffs, because just wasn't enough time

to work on their games. Boston played into the Eastern Conference finals. They got more time off than Miami, but not a lot more, maybe twenty more days. So to me, they're a middle tier playoff team. They'll be the fourth of the fifth seed. They'll be a tough out like they'll they're going to give almost anyone in the Eastern Conference a really tough SERI he's probably at least six games, but I don't see any kind of championship ceiling for them.

Unless multiple of their young guys really really improved. So I agree with you, and I think one of the biggest things to keep in mind is how important Gordon Hayward and Kemba Walker were as primary decision makers, because Jayson Tatum has a similar flaw to what you see with Kawhi Leonard, which is he's an amazing two way score guy who can guard on the other end and is an absolute positive impact on the defensive end, and if you put him on an island with any player,

he's capable. He's not as good as Quiet, but he's capable of getting really really you know shots that he can make, and he was I think he was like a twenty six point per game guy last year in the playoffs. Like he is, he is on that path to to being that elite two way wing. Here's the problem. He is not necessarily capable of running a coherent NBA offense without the help of primary ball handlers. Uh That

role was filled by Hayward and Kemba last year. Kemball what was their best for last year, and Kimba's out for the first month of the season. Jeff Tigue is a pro. He's an okay guard but he's not going to be that. He's gonna be the worst guard on the floor in most games that he plays in. And so the real the reality is, especially early on in that first month and a half or so without Kemba, they're gonna basically be going to Kempa to Jayson Tatum

and Jalen Brown and saying, run our offense. Now, they'll be able to guard. They'll be able to guard like crazy. Especially with Tristan Thompson. I think I think he unlocks a lot of what their defense could be in terms of,

you know, reaching their defensive ceiling. But the reality is they're gonna be in this game, in these games, and in this NBA season where there's like twenty good teams, and they're gonna and they're literally gonna be relying on guys in their early twenties that don't have a lot

of reps running offense to run everything. And so I think it's very possible that they get off to like a five and seven start or something crazy like that because the fact that they're gonna be extremely limited in terms of their basketball i Q. Because they don't have that grown they're grown up on the floor that can be like, Hey, we're gonna do this, and then Tatum, Jason, we're gonna give you the ball down on the block here, you know, you know, four times in the next ten possessions.

But we're gonna run coherent offense around that. It's gonna be like Tatum, bring the ball up the floor, make a move and shoot. Then Jalen bring the ball up the floor, make a move and shoot. Like it's gonna be just kind of a little bit, a little bit uh like, like what's the word I'm looking for. It's just gonna be like, it's gonna be immature. It's gonna be an immature NBA offense. Yeah, And I think I think Tatum has a higher ceiling as a kind of

a primary initiator offensive creator than a Kauai. I really do. He showed some like real improvements in that area last year where he's like reading the week side defense coming over and he's throwing the skip like as they're rotating, stuff that only the best creators do. But I don't think he's quite there yet. But I think the early season could be a way for him to really continue to grow that part of his game. He has the potential. I think he does have the potential to, like maybe

not run an offense. He'll probably always need another guy who is a primary creator, but he has more potential in quiet that specific aspect. In my opinion, would you trade any Would you trade Jalen Brown and Marcus Smart for effort James Harden? I think, I think I trust Boston's culture enough to withstand that. So I think so, I don't know, that's a that's a funky one. They would get off a kemba's money, which I think is huge, but they really they love Jalen Brown, so I don't

think they smart. Yeah, yeah, so I think Smart can actually run the point guard capably too. He's a really good passer, and he's not a guy that minds aking on extra responsibility. As as wild as he is, his only issue is shot selection. He'll just take the most wild shots. But if you tell Marcus you're running the offense for the time being, we can't have you taking wild threes eighteen seconds into the clock, then maybe he gets that part out of his game. I don't know. Yeah,

they might struggle in the early in the year. I could see it, But I think I don't know. If you're giving Tatum enough credit as for the strikes he took as a creator last year, because he took real, real strides in that area. So we'll see who are you picking too in the East. We can't agree on this, so I'm gonna say Philly, I think, I really like I think they have a realistic shot at beating Brooklyn no matter what happens, if they get hardened, I would

actually pick them to be Brooklyn. Yeah, I think they can beat him without without getting hard him. I'm taking Brooklyn now, but if Philly gets hard now, would take Philly. That's what That's where I'm at right now. But whoever it is, you know, I I got. I got the Lakers beating him inevitably. I just I saw all I needed to see in one in one fifteen minute stretch of presee's in basketball. I'm sold. I'm just already I'm already pissed about it. I'm already pissed about the Lakers

just being the proverbial favorite again. It's gonna be an interesting year, man to get ready to because yeah, I think it's gonna get sloppy on Twitter too, because like steps in for a rough start, even though I know they played the Nuggets and the Kings, who aren't exactly defensive stalwarts, but they looked honestly better than I thought, especially without drinking. Draymond is kind of so key to everything they do, even offensively. He just he connects plays

so well. He gets guys that extra half second of space that guys like, honestly, Andrew Wiggins and Kelly you really need. They need like an extra half foot of separation. But he's such a smart pass where he's such a good screener. He's gonna help their offensive flow. And I hope he plays Game one. We'll see if he does. But the issue was the schedule for Golden State. They're starting with Brooklyn and Milwaukee, and it's gonna be tough

out of the gates for them. Um, we'll see, we'll see. Man, I'm still to you know, and this with some warrior stuff. I'm still high on their seeing an ultimate team, but um, it might might be ugly coming out of the gates here. Yeah, I just I feel bad because if it does get ugly, that dude is gonna be it's gonna I might have to go into hiding. But then again, it's like I mean, I remember when Lebron missed playoffs from two thousand nineteen, and the lasting the lasting memory was who's that dude,

Maria Hazonia blocking him on the game winner? Like, sometimes it just gets ugly and like and there's not really a whole lot you can do about Anybody who really knew what was going on, knew that, like that team was ravaged with injuries. But people aren't interested in being honest. They're interested in standering. This protect doesn't matter. Context never matters. But hey, dude, you give me three hours of your

time this week. I really appreciate it. I'm gonna I would imagine sometime in the next week or two, we'll get together again and talk some more. Uh, whatever's whatever interesting happens, hopefully even to James Harden's right at that point, Yeah, let's talk hard and if that happens, definitely alright. Body have a going all right, Thanks man,