Yo, what's beef? Besides what Americans eat too much of? It's also when you're not safe in the streets. That's a Piggie small song. I want to talk about beef this episode in the hood, as in in geopolitics, sometimes it's hard to imagine the situation being anything else. You never question where some of the norms kind of came from. What is conservative and liberal? Have we always been this binary? You know what do we mean by right wing and
left wing? Well, that's actually came from the French Revolution in the part that's where we get those terms. It is basically where the side of the room able sitting on. So it came from somewhere we just think as normal. One of those things is the situation in the Middle East. It's just all it's been this way or has it
always been this way? No, So today I want to introduce to you a reoccurring type of episode we're gonna have, which is not so much the same format of just like, let's look at the headlines and let me help you understand the headlines. Some of those headlines don't make sense unless you have context, unless you have backstory. You ever thought about why crips or even beefing with blood? Where did the blue and the red come from? Like? Why
is this just what it is? Why? And with the you know, killing of Costum Sulamani, which was a name that nobody ever said unless you was really embedded into the situation. Americans really know this guy was, But we also knew that we've been in a forever war, that this nine eleven issue in two thousand one really didn't start this stuff. Man, our movies since the eighties have had the bad guy come from the Middle East before Daddy came from Russia or in any action movie we've had.
It's Cold War? What Cold War came from somewhere? The conflict in the Middle East? Man, that came from somewhere. You have to ask itself, how did we even get here today? We're gonna figure out this beef You're already backstory? What is beef? So who were putting on the hood today is someone who actually needs no putting on because he earned his own stripes in his own way, the founder and CEO of Preemptive Love and someone who I
have recently joined the border directors with. This is amazing, Hey, my man, Jeremy Cortney y'all make some noise. Jeremy Cortney, what's out, Jeremy, Yeah, buddy. So this is a special episode which has been introduced and explained before you got on this call. I don't need to go back through it again, but I'm gonna start with this little story.
I was out at this thing in the mountains of Utah, just this beautiful just ski resort with people that I'm like, at least four and five tax brackets below them, but it was an amazing thing. So I was talking about the work Preemptive Love does. I got my homeboy and that lives in Iraq, and I was like, man, I'm gonna go visit that food pretty soon. Yeah, yeah, I just want to see what's going on over there. And I was like, yeah, they work in Syria to at some point I want to like pull up to Syria.
And the people in the room were like, Yo, that's crazy, man, You're gonna You're really gonna go to Syria. And I was like yeah, you know, and then uh. One sister was like why, why what's going on in Syria? And at first I was like, are you serious? And then we were so the whole room was like yo, it's a civil war, like a war than right, he can buy your way out of even awareness, dude. But wait, it gets even better. This, this gets even better. She looks at me and she goes, oh, oh, you mean
that war whatever? And then I was like what. And then it turns out to her friends go, oh, yeah, you're from Lebanon, so she was born and raised in Beirut. So she's just like what it's like. I was like, oh my god, it's all relative, you know what I'm saying. She was like, oh, oh that war. I thought she was telling me something new. I thought you were talking about something that ain't happened before that I haven't lived
through my whole life. This immediately took me back to when I got sort of bust into a different elementary school that was outside of my neighborhood, outside of where I grew up in, and I would say hey on the weekend. Kids would be like, hey, what are you doing the weekend? I was like going visit my grandma and there was like where does she live? And I was like, my grandma lives in south central l A. And they would say are you serious? Like really you're
gonna are you okay? Like you're gonna go there, And I remember just being so shocked as to like I don't understand what this is my grandma's house, Like, yeah, I'm gonna go visit. What are you scared? Like scared
of what? Like just so having no idea what their reference point was and why they were so blown away that I didn't think twice I was like I don't understand, like that's that's where I live, Like excuse me, you know, um, So it just it really took me back to that and this thought to myself, man like when you're outside of something one you really don't see that like, okay, normal life is also happening, right, And then to life wasn't always like this, but you learned to adjust in
your head you kind of feel like if this is all you know, the thought never crossed your mind, like how did we get here? So as we all, as we start every episode, I'm gonna ask you first a question about just like street life, which I don't expect you to know, but if you do, that be rad. So the origins of the Crypts and Bloods, any any clue give it to me how I got Well a little background story about that and then how they started beef And I don't want to get into a lot
of it, but I just want you to know. And everybody knows that, like Inner City Los Angeles wasn't always liked it. There was a start. The start was in the beginning of the seventies. A lot of people don't know there was a there's a direct connection between the
Black Panthers and the original crypt gangs. These were essentially the little brothers of FBI destroyed Black Panthers, who essentially in the same way that the Panthers looked at their forefathers in the Civil rights movement, saying, hey, what you guys did didn't work. Man, Just cool, thank you. But I think this needs to be we need to take this a step further. And that's kind of like the mindset of this of the Panthers, right, and then after
the FBI systematically destroyed the Panthers, you have their younger brothers. Okay, y'all try to like this, you try to like this. Forget it. We need to take matters in our own aunts Like, no one's gonna take care of us. It's never gonna work. We need to start doing our things trying to get the laws change. The alls aren't fair, the laws will never be fair. We need to just
take matters in our own hands. Um. This was at Fremont High School, the first crip gang, which a little connection to myself is had I lived with my grandmother the high school I went to. And it started off as just a collection of neighborhoods kind of sort of policing themselves and and then enter drugs, inter crack sales and activities and extortions and all these other things. And then eventually these like neighborhood autonomous gangs essentially started beefing
among each other. Then down in Compton there was an area called Compton Crips, and then there was a street called Piru, And on Piru there was a group of young men that were like, look, we needed now we need to not only have protection from the police, we need to have protection from these other neighborhoods. And they formed themselves as sort of like anti crip and became the Blood. So there's there's there's a there's a history of of seeing like the sort of the expansion of
the crips is what kind of created the bloods. Pep'm saying it is like you you were. You assumed too much autonomy and too much freedom. At some point somebody's like, look, man, you can't. We didn't all agree that you the police of the region. We kind of want somebody some of the street money too, and it kind of a beef in every sense. Now that obviously that's the shortest possible simplified version. Basically that's the story. Now, what does that
have to do with geopolitics? If you're anywhere around me and Jeremy's age, you've in a forever war, forever war that in our minds from when we were in elementary school and we did Desert Shield and Desert Storm all the way to night eleven and just like and then this warrant terror either way it was some region on the other side of the world was the problem that we all experience, my man. Jeremy moved into that. We need a little backstory. That's what Jeremy's here for. So, Jeremy,
what's wrong with the Middle East? What's wrong with the Middle East? Man? What a way to serve it up? I know, it's just like what's wrong with the hood? Like, uh, I mean, yeah, let's let's be honest. There's a lot wrong with the Middle East. And I think one of the one of the critiques of those who make so much teak these days is that basically we get polarized into these camps of either we blame it all on the West, or we blame it all on the rest. You know, that's kind of the way that some of
the conversation is framed up. And so it's either all their fault, the imperialists, the colonizers, the slave traders and slave owners and you know, whoever set us down this road, or it's it's all their fault. You know. The people who got liberated, they got free, they got their chance, they got their shot, and what they do with it,
they blew it. They had thirty year dictatorships, they had terrorism, they had corruption, they had We've given them all this aid, military, humanitarian, political, we've tried to build their nations, We've you know, and they blew it. And if it weren't for those guys, whichever side you stand on, then things would have just been fine. And so I want to having lived through some cycles of violence and having lived in this part of the world for sixteen plus years now, I want
to be an honest broker. I think there's there's truth on both sides of that conversation. Um, it does matter profoundly where you jump into the river as to how you view or tell the story. You know, I don't know if it's worth I don't know how many hundreds of years back it's worth going to get the story right. That's good man. That's that's in the same way that like where you want to start when you talk about like inner city gangs, Well, do you want to start
at the slave ship? Do you want to start at you know, at reconstruction? Do you want to start at Jim Crow? Like, where do you want to start? That's good man. And so it's like wherever you jump in, is it all police brutality or is it all means a survival? That's good anyway? Going well, and you know, frankly, it matters profoundly. I think you and I both come from Christian backgrounds where we've seen a lot of people
just throw up their hands. They go all the way back to the beginning quote unquote, and they just throw up their hands, go, well, say what are you gonna do? And it's kind of it's kind of the ultimate trump card. It's like, well, there's nothing we can do about these things because humanity is ultimately depraved. And I see that as a really gross version of going back to who threw the first punch? Like that. That doesn't work for me. I find that deeply unhelpful. So we gotta jump in
somewhere on any conflict, on any conversation. I think the historical contextual approach is always very helpful, and it's something that frankly, I think around the world right now, we're seeing leaders who are not very adapt who aren't very
skilled at knowing their history and knowing how to wield it. Well, we've sort of been reduced to a kind of populists pugilistic leadership where whoever screams the loudest and whoever threatens to punch the other guy in the face the toughest, they seem to be winning or at least ascending in politics around the world. So so, so take us back, though, take us back to the first um who hit first? Yeah? Just like yeah, and then even how America got involved
in the first place. So so if you could take us back to Okay, so we've done an episode on the Red Couch podcast about the CIA's involvement in taking down of like Moza Deck, our interest in having a player there in that part of the in that region that's sort of on our side sort of How just the the disorienting destabilization when someone puts their hands in in in a place where you were used to being able to sort of exact um resources from and then
somebody finally says like hold up now, Like I don't it's okay for you to just just be taking our stuff here? And how that messes up our own sort of status. You know, that was three So we we went all the way back there, But I know that in a lot of ways, that sold a lot of seed that brought us to that first Iran Iraq war in the eighties. Maybe take us back to that, like to that Irana Rock war where that start? Why is Kuwait involved? You know when Kuwait I'm um, I'm fast
forwarding here that I know you'll get to. But there was a moment where what we would call affiliation happened where Kuwait was just really just trying to get some oil rigs through through the seas, would look to America to be like, yo, can you help us like not get shot at we said no. They were like, okay, cool, what's up with Russia? Though, Maybe Russia help us get through, right, And we was like Holla, holla, ho, We'll help you, will help you, And we just essentially put our flag
on their boat. It's something that I've experienced in my own life where someone just sort of like stamped their safety on me in in a sense of like I didn't want to be a part of none of this anyway, but I just found myself caught in the middle of something that I didn't asked to be caught up. Maybe take us take us back to that Irana Rock War and how all that stuff started happening. Yeah, So the the Iran I Rock War was born out of about twenty seven years years of repressive regime in Iran that
was propped up by the United States. So, um, we go back to nineteen fifty three when the United States partnered up with the UK really on behalf of a fully UK agenda to overthrow the democratically elected Mosadak who had who really was leading a populist nationalist movement of Iranians who were opposed to the ways in which the British had struck a deal with a previous leader of of Iran to extract oil out of Iran from like a hundred year concession, and the oil deal was it
was really bad for Iran, really bad for the people of Iran. And the Anglo Persian Oil Company was was involved in a lot of exploitation of Iranians for the sake of propping up the British fleet throughout World War One and then on into World War Two. After all these years of living under this oppressive corporate sort of state sponsored oil concession, this guy named Mohammed Mosaduk rises up inside Iran to lead a nationalist movement and said, very much on the face of it, I'm going to
nationalize our oil fields. I'm gonna get back for us what was ours, our birthright was essentially sold out from under us by our previously corrupt Shaw. I'm going to get it back. You elect me. I'm going to get our land back, and I'm not going to let the British occupy our land in the name of corporate exploits anymore. Well, obviously it was very controversial. Brits tried to get him ousted from power. Truman wasn't interested. But when Eisenhower came
to power. Eisenhower's CIA and State Department partnered with the Brits to oust Mosadak So when they oust him, they bring back to power. Are this show, which is essentially they're they're king. And he goes on to rule for another twenty seven years. But now during part two of his reign, he's more repressive, you know, he's he's already had to hit put In on him once more, and uh,
he comes back with a very heavy hand. And so for the rest of his reign, he really drives the country even further into the ground, drives the people further into the ground, and people are experiencing his brutishness for a couple of decades. In the late seventies, then um, there was a rising movement against him that culminated in what we now call the Islamic Revolution, and ayatollahm preacher took over the took over the country with his his people.
He he basically had a tape cassette ministry. He was the first, he was the first podcaster of Iran, so you know, and and with his his tape cassette sermons that he was blasting out from safety in Iraq and Paris, he mobilized millions for a while. He wasn't even there. I didn't even know that he wasn't even in the hood day he had he had already fled the Shaw at one point, and Uh through this tape literally a
tape cassette ministry of his serbans. He mobilized this army and the people helped oust the Shaw, and so then the Islamic Revolution was on. And essentially Saddam Hussein, who was a real military man, UH, guy who believed in state power and state institutions. Next door, he sees this preacher now suddenly the leader of a whole country, and he's like, I can take this guy. They got a preacher,
Now I can take this guy. And so then he he invade this contested plot of land that has been at issue between Iran and Iraq for a while, and the preacher, the preacher sends his foot soldiers with a theological zeal against Iraq, and then we get this eight year war. Saddam bit off more than he could chew. He underestimated the preacher and it kind of becomes the preacher versus the commander in chief and resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths over eight years. So California got
the best weed in the world. Right, so we know that California grows the best wheat. California has been supplying Atlanta. It's weed. Atlanta been buying California weed, uh and really only paying us maybe keeping eighty All of a sudden, California go, um, I don't know if this is a fair deal, Like ya ate like it grow here? Like who agreed to this? Well, one of our big homies
agreed to it. At some point a new young dude is like yo type out man, like y'all, y'all just can't keep just getting this stuff at this cheap and we out here struggling, you know, trying to run stuff
down from the dog on border from Mexico. You know, we're running into the police and the federalies and carrying on like we're going through too much when the stuff grow here, like you're trying to fund your mission on our stuff and we're only getting pennies from what this ain't right Atlanta say, oh no, we can't have that. You ain't gonna mess this up. So even though this little homie is starting to take over l A and be like no, no, no no, no, no, you need to
pay us I just do. We're like, no, Atlanta's going no, we can't have that. So Atlanta talk to their big homies in d C and they like he because you know, this's gonna mess up our bag. D C comes down and says, okay, let me let me. Let me go ahead and help you out with this. So d C in Atlanta make sure they take out the young homie that was trying to stop l A from getting the money that's just due from them, right, and then they put the big homie that put the original deal in
place back in charge. But that guy is terrible and that's not who the hood wants. But we can't help it because Atlanta in d C done already has decided that that's their boy. So you out of luck. Then eventually some hotep dude boy to raise in l A and it's like no, this, no, this needs to change. So this hotep get everybody in l A back together.
Some Nation of Islam hotel dude talking about the black man is God gets l A back and get their stuff together, right, But then Long Beach look up and he go, wait a minute, l A ran by a hotel. Now oh, I could take this fool out back to Germany. The racket wasn't merely somebody else's drugs, somebody else's extortion. It was birthright. I mean, it was like it was the land beneath your feet. It was the resources beneath your feet. Like it wasn't imported from Colombia, it was
it was your resources. From an American perspective, we've just kind of looked over there and been like, well, all your languages sound the same. It just you all look like the same people to us, so we can't tell the difference between a Saudi Arabia, a very secular leader in Saddam Hussein, a cleric in Aetola Camani. We just looked at them and just went, y'all all Islamic. So we don't we don't understand none of it. You know. I think there have been people like that, decision makers
like that. I think there have been voters like that in the in the night. If we go back to nineteen fifty three, a little bit earlier, when Truman was hit up by the Brits. Initially, initially the Brits approached the US and said, hey, they're taking our oil. You gotta help us, and Truman was like, no, that's your problem. I'm not I'm not looking to start a war because they're taking your oil. You deal with your own imperial issues.
But then the Brits savvaed up and after Truman was out, Eisenhower, a military man was in. They tried again and they approached the Dullest brothers, one of them heading up Cia, the other one heading up State. The Brits said they
tried a totally different strategy this time. They approached it through a lens of American self interest, not British interest, and they said most of the deck is a communist and when you look at how close Iran is to Russia, USSR this whole situation like, you guys got to act. You gotta act fast because if Iran falls then it's it's game over. That's the whole thing. So we're in Cold War era mindset right now. And they really got us.
They really got us on that one by saying Iran is gonna fall under Russians, you know, sphere And that worked and so we overthrew most of deck, not because of Islam, We overthrew most of that because of Russia or Soviet and that's sort of like fear that someone's gonna fly a red rag in front of a blue rag has driven at least in my lifetime, from my father being in Vietnam all the way to like, you know,
my it's yeah, it's a very similar sort of it. Yeah, all the way, Yeah, all the way to like my eldest daughter's birth father who was in afghan Understand, you know what I'm saying, Like, just that fear that you're gonna fly a different flag which apparently puts me in danger. It's just it's it just seems like it just landed us in this forever war, which is why it's so important for us to know people outside of our own worldview and outside of our It's what helps inoculate us
a little bit too hysteria. I mean, there are real fears. I'm not. I'm not. I would not have been a fan, even from today's vantage point, looking back on history, I wouldn't have been a fan of Iran falling under the Soviet sphere. That probably would have been a very bad thing. I think the more needful question was is that a likelihood? Um? Is that really what most of us preaching is that
really what's going on here. We managed to find a way into Iran to manipulate of the mosques and newspapers across Iran to tell the story we wanted them to tell. We owned the streets in n and we got them to tell the story that we wanted them to tell.
So if we could do that, why couldn't we go in and listen more carefully and understand is this a pro Soviet movement that's really happening, or is it a pro Iranian movement it's really happening an anti imperialist because the Soviet was just another imperial force, and there's a pretty strong argument that most of that wasn't looking to fall under the sway of another empire. Yeah, a lot of times, like just the comparison between like you said, these are just these are your as far as as
far as the Iranian is concerned. It's like all of y'all are problems in my coming up again at inner city stuff like crib blood, cop Chlo. It's just like at the end of the day, man, like y'all all
the same. Either way, you've made it hard for me to walk home home, play football in the streets outside, like it's just at the end of the day and whether it was four streets over when I was riding home on my bike, somebody took my bike and I walked into the house, and the congregate of young men next door to me took a personal offense that a little kid on the street got robbed, that they decided to get up and go get my bike back. So now all of a sudden, I'm affiliated with this, you know.
And it's not necessarily I asked for it. It's just, man, you was willing to go get my bike back, you know. So I'm gonna have an affinity towards these guys what they live next door. I mean I've known them forever and then too like they got my bike back. You know, a situation to where someone just knocks on the door and it's just like, you know what set you claim? And it's like, well, which one of what do I need to tell you that's gonna stop you from hurting
my family? Yes? What do I gonna tell you to make you go away? Right? Family? So all that to say, what makes a radical, what makes a what to make a what makes an Islamic? Is streamless? Like, what what makes that if you imagine if you imagine a pyramid. I've I've often described the violence that we kind of just lived through here in Iraq a couple of years with the rise of Isis, you know, taken over a
third of Syria, a third of Iraq. We ourselves were on the front lines of some of that violence as as Isis was being pushed back. Our teams have been shot at and bombed trying to feed and free people from this situation, and it has I've seen the way words and policies have turned people more and more violent
in ways that they didn't have to be. I've seen the ways that an effort to protect ourselves from those people has ended up being kind of a self fulfilling prophecy for those people, where they're like, oh, well, if you're set against me, then I guess I have to be set against you just to just to survive. And then they become the very thing that we said they were. So if you envisioned a peer pramid, I think of
it like this, the base of the pyramid. So if you look at that hood, that city, that place, that territory um, and you look at the population there, if you're an outsider, kind of like they were talking about your grandma's house, like you might be inclined to look at that whole Long Beach or that whole Compton or whatever as like that's all gangland. Meaning every single person involved is a quote unquote radical. They believe the thing. They're they're all in on it. But that's not I
don't think that's true. That's not that doesn't spar out with what I've seen. Um the base of the pyramid are people that I sometimes call the conquered. It's the biggest, widest um swath of people. They are the conquered. A level up from that, a slightly smaller group you might call the collaborators. Yeah, okay, there you go. So there are people who might like point you in the right direction.
They're not they're not believers, but they're they're engaged in some kind of way, usually just to like not get beat up themselves, not get their family killed themselves in our Isis situation. I think these were some of the Sunni Arabs. Isis rolls up into town, they say, where are the Christians or where are the Yazitis? And some Sunni Arab dad will point to his neighbor's house and say it's not me, man, We're sunny just like you.
It's these guys next door. He probably doesn't hate his neighbor. He probably doesn't want to see genocide happen to the Yazities. He doesn't hate their religion. He's just trying to get his daughter to not be raped today. And so he points to the door next door, and then something horrific befalls the door next door, and all those Christians and all those Yusities. He feels bad about it. He genuinely hates it. But is he guilty in the same way
that the guy who held the knife is guilty. I mean, and I guess you can have that technical conversation, But from from his perspective, he was trying to protect his own household. You know, A level up from that collaborators, I'd say, there's there's criminals. These are people who actually hold the gun, hold the knife, do the thing. They break in, they rape, they steal, they they sell the drugs, they do whatever they do. These are their actual criminals.
They engage in something that is that's what we call banging, that's gang banging. You still put new way up from criminals, an even smaller proportion of the overall population. I would say, are something like the cultists. These are the people who actually believe the ideology. Um, they believe the theology in
the case of like an isis or whatever. And then often I think the guys at the very tip top of the pyramid, the smallest group, the one or two heads of a region in or whatever, they aren't even cultists. They're just in it for pure power and money. That's the shot callers. They don't even believe the thing that they're saying. They know it's all a religion, like a mythos, but they know how to mobilize people. That the shot caller, the boss, the shot caller who this thing before under
that we would call like. That would be like the O. G s or like the prison dudes that are like, no, we in this, this is our life. I bleed blue. I don't care. I was born in it is. It ain't choose me, you know what I'm saying. Dudes that are like calling shots in the streets. But then the dudes above them are just like, now, I'm just out here making money. I don't care, but red blue don't matter.
I'm just here making money. So interesting they know they know how to leverage the history, the story, the ideology to keep the keep everyone else moving, and keep everyone else afraid and inspired. And I hope that makes sense for the rest of y'all. It makes perfect sense to me. The last thing I'd asked you, Jeremy, is like, maybe talk a little bit about preemptive love, what we're doing
and where we're going next with it. We're working to end war, period, and I don't mean to say that flippantly. I think, uh, look at l A. L A is not what it was in the eighties. Absolutely, there are things that can be done to end war, and there are policies and things that can be done. Stories we
can tell about each other to escalate violence. Some of the way you told the story from the Panthers on down supports our thesis and what we've seen on the streets that violence spreads like a disease, and it's important that we have first responders to stop the blood letting, stop the spread of that disease as quickly as possible. So that's a lot of what we do. We we respond fast in conflict zones to keep that story from spreading to the next group, from spreading to the next person.
Um and then we do job creation. We are we are primarily a job creation community because nothing helps more than good economic conditions to live in. Uh. Nothing really accelerates people's alignment with militias and gangs and militaries like the promise of food on the table, and if we can give strong, strong, robust alternatives to that, it ultimately helps lock it out all together. Yeah, father Greg boyle uh at Homeboy Industries out here. He has a T
shirt I remember changed my life. T shirt said nothing stops a bullet like a job. Yeah. Well, Jeremy, thank you for your time. Man. Let me show you how real Jeremy keeps it. While we were starting this, the power went out and then he just was like, hey, the power went out, Just give me a second, and then it popped right back on. I'm just like, look, man, look, Jeremy.
If there's somebody who's got like the receipts and the stripes, if you're looking to donate to organizations where if my name means anything, like I swear to you, the money is going where these people say it's going like it's real work happening. These dudes ain't They're not these ain't drowne strike people sitting in somewhere in van eyes like look over there and look at the work we're doing.
It's people who putting their own children and like their own children in the in the in the space like put their bodies in harm's way for the sake of waging peace. Thank you so much, Jeremy, everybody doing over that Preemptive Love. Like I said, I am oudly and it is my honor to be a part of this team. And thank you again for being a part of this stop.
Thanks man. You well that's our shows, shows mixed and mastered as you know by the big homie matt Owasowski Owawski Owawski ours tell me a story about his granddad who for his dad that was in war or in the navy, and the navy recruiter was like, hey, uh matt um Osaki Osaka is mad Osaka here He's like, no, no, mad now Here's not my name anyway, uh special Thanks to all of our patreons who keep making this happen. Big shout out to Jeremy Cortney. You could follow him
and their work at Preemptive Love dot org. Go get yourself some refugee soap, and by saying that, I mean soap made by refugees, like literally poke around. That website is nothing like it um and our theme music was as always made by the big Homey DJ Shampi. And like we say at the end of every show, politics is just gang banging in nice suits. We'll see you next week. Except Johnny dropped a new nugget that I just wanted to say it to the end. Y'all, check
out this last nugget Jeremy dropped. I think we got to know our history. But what is ultimately needed is someone who can point us forward, someone who can look to the future, someone who can take a a good faith peacemaking negotiation kind of brokership on behalf of both sides, who can be seen as a good faith actor by everyone involved and help move the conversation into the future.
And and that's a tall order, but I think it's really what is needed in various conflicts around the world, including the Middle East,