All media. Uh yeah, do you want to ride with us? Ride with us?
Just a little west coast? All right, we'd days away from having a new president. I owe you guys another Terrorform episode. If you're just clocking into our show, first of all, welcome. This episode is a little different something I tried to do this year where in the midst of just how intense you know, the world is being like full crash out, Which I just want to add that if you're going to use the phrase crash out, like,
understand that it comes from gang culture. When you're going to go kill someone at their place, crash out, that's you. It's murder. So just no, if you got crashed out, it's murder. Just like oh he cooking, you know what I'm saying, you know, cooking in a lab.
That's about making crack. That's its origins.
Anyway, So this year has been, and I'm pretty sure been wildly intense for all of us, you know, not as intense as being someone who might happen to live in North Gaza. So what we tried to do was in the spirit of the poetry book and albums I put out called Terrorform. Are people who are terraforming in a good sense that are building us.
A livable world.
For recap, we talked to the hemie Kevin Garcia, who has this interesting work among people coming out of a pretty rigid white evangelical space who are queer, you know, exists in a particular margin having to do around their gender identity or lack thereof, and just found that, like the traditional church was intenable, but still didn't want to abandoned spiritual practices that still rain true to them. So
it's one of the things that Kevin did. I brought in the homie Shamil Idris from Search for Common Ground, Like, I don't know if there's anyone closer to the action in peace building across the world than the Search for Common Ground folk. I mean, I'm talking like at the table in Me and mart In, Israel and Gaza, like on the ground building nations, real peace like crazy styles.
Who else did we bring in as a terraformer.
Oh the WOKF podcast, my sister over there doing the amazing work. And I also brought in my wife, the Chingona ais Tingna, you know working in the Latin specifically Latina community about you know.
Being your full self.
And these are terraformers, and today we're gonna talk about business, all right, So honestly, my real answer to this podcast episode we're talking about is the complete destruction of the system of capitalism.
It just I hate it. I really I don't think.
I mean, at the end of the day, no matter how much I learn and understand of ancient history and all that comes with knowing the development, the rise and falls of civilizations and what we mean by civilization, you know, communal leads, the fits and starts. I highly recommend the book That Dawn of Humanity. The point I'm saying is governments just don't work.
Just it don't work. But just putting a dude, dame or whatever.
Just the person in charge of large swaths of people just don't work. So, I mean, my real dream is the end of capitalism as we know it as an institution. That doesn't mean the end of economics, bartering or selling things. It just means the concept of capitalism I think needs to die slow, like just burn, baby burn. That being said, it's not dead and we exist in it. So you're in notion.
You gotta swim.
So it's a difficulty to find people that are swimming well, one of which, though I've found, is my man Brian Pepe at Mirror. Now, as you may know if you've ever purchased any of my merch it's created by Mirror. It's a company that I can stand by doing their absolute best inside and out, certified b Cord carbon neutral. You're gonna learn what all those things mean. And I just think if you, if you gotta do it, do
it like these dudes. Brian Pape a friend of mine, like truly a friend in a lot of ways, he's he's the bulls. I have everything wrong with Western culture. He is a cisgendered, upper middle class white male. Now you might be upper class. Now Brian bawling out like you're you're the thing, you know, saying like you are the top of the American food chain, and he runs a very successful business. I have the same My head hits the same wall as a lot of y'all is like,
it is not possible. I just don't know in this toxic water of late stage capitalism, you know, is it even possible to do business good? I mean, I sometimes feel weird about the fact that like we have corporate overlawyers in iHeart, like it's still still corporation, you know, but I.
Still cash they check.
I'll tell you one thing, So I just want to talk to him and show y'all that, like, here's the thing, dude, Like it's possible, you know, in in the to the extent that you are purposeful aware and are doing your best. It is possible, you know. So yeah, it's it's possible. So this in in in the in the way that he can.
Let me introduce you to the hommy the terror former Brian Pepe. But first it's like this Bullook is like this Bullook is like this.
Well new president. He is assembling his avengers. I shouldn't laugh. I shouldn't laugh. He choosing his people for his cabinet members. He picked a guy with a with a brain bacteria worm and put it in charge of anti virus in bacteria. He put an anti vaccer in charge of the medicines. But hey, you know he believes in the eating good. He might be on the something, don't get me wrong, Like I don't want the world to collapse, so.
Out ow the kiddedy boy do something right.
He got Elon musk and for baked Ryn's with cake. Basically he hired them to fire people. It's not funny, but it kind of is because never mind, I don't need it. I don't need it. I'm just saying, this is what's going on right now. My man Denzel Washington talking about how everybody getting duped. Denzel always got the good like Uncle Hot takes when it comes to stuff like this, lay telling y'all, like listen, you being brainwashed.
It is what it is.
So in a Hollywood Reporter article, he talked about, like I don't understand why y'all not hold of y'all. Y'all elected officials accountable, These people are not your friends, to which I would say amen. And then finally before we get into this episode, Flognaw shout out to Tyler the creator dropping an amazing, amazing record and a ten year long festival. And just as an interesting note, so his hairstyle and style address that he's presenting in this new
album is directly from Africa. Like the way that his hair is is done, it's really dope, like it's a I believe it's Nigerian hairstyle that he's doing. But I went to Flognaw, well, I didn't go.
I worked it. So my back hurts because I'm old.
Shout out the homies at Family Industries, where I was allowed to put some patches on some.
Merch and see a lot of the younglings enjoy it.
It highlights to me was Douchi's set killed it. It was dope to see Erica Badu set, and I finally saw Andre play the flute, which was its own thing.
It was.
You know, obviously two things can exist in the same space. I would much rather have heard him rap, but I really enjoyed. I'm surprisingly I.
Enjoyed his musical set. It was fun.
Anyway, let's talktor Brian Papey is like this.
According in podcasts.
Yes, so the preamble has already happened. You guys who will see this video. I've already seen us talk about the stuff we wasn't supposed talk about before we was recorded, but we were recorded either way.
Brian pape mirror, drinkware, cups, cuffs, He's make cups, fry. What's up, Brian, what's up?
Prop? It's gonna be with you man.
Yeah, so I'm glad to do this. Man, I've been meaning to do it for years.
We're like real.
Friends, you know, Like Brian is the hommie. I am, you know, not only a client. I'm also a member, like you know, not only as Like am I a fan of their product, I'm a fan of him. I'm a fan of his family. I like I'm a brand ambassador, you know what I'm saying. Like, So, like, that's how much for me personally, I believe in what Mirror is doing that I'll.
Willing to put my reputation on the line.
To the extent that I know, you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know if there's any Diddy parties happening over there.
If it is, you ain't show me. You know what I'm saying, Like.
None of that happened over here? Problem, none of that.
I was Like, I know your wife, I know your children.
You know what I'm saying. I met your sister. I feel like I was to the extent that I know, you know.
I mean, yeah, this day and age is kind of like that is all I know.
Yeah, yeah, but an absolute stand up guy.
So ultimately, what I want to get to at the end of this part is like, is it even possible to do like good business, to do capitalism in a not exploitative way?
Right?
So That's that's why I kind of want to get to here. But first of all, hey, you remember how we met?
Oh man, do I ever? Yeah?
Calama Zoom Michigan. So funny Man, that was. You know, it's funny. I think I've told you this, but I'll tell it against your listeners. Oh yeah, Prop and I were we were supposed to speak at what was the Catalyst conference or.
Something and something like that.
Yeah, And I had no idea. I was like, all right, cool, Yeah, I'll get paid to show up.
Cool to me.
Yeah sounds good.
And I needed to make money at that point, so I mean, I still need to make money. But that was like I was like.
I really I will travel. Yeah, yeah, I would get paid to speak for thirty minutes. Yes, yes.
And my sister texted me and she was like, oh my gosh, you're at the same conference as PROP. And I was like who. It's like, I have no idea. She's a super fan. She's like, you don't know propaganda. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm just I've been heads down the last six years and a hole trying to make cups.
Yeah. And anyway, we were like the youngest one.
I mean, everybody else was yeah, speaker by like a decade totally.
Yeah, so you like looked at each other and what's up? What's that? What's up? Yeah? And I had a mad Caps was that mad Cap?
I think you had a mad Cap sweater on?
And I had already went and got mad Cap because I knew we were near where they have it, so I'd already got a bag and me arrest in peace. DJ Effecto was like, all right, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna start making coffee blah blah blah blah. And then I think we ran into each other again backstage and was like I believe I was doing an narrow press.
Yeah, and drink at the bar though with DJ Effecto.
Yeah yeah yeah, And then I.
Awkwardly asked for a selfie so my sister would think I was cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
We got in the elevators, like, hey man, my sister she doesn't think what I'm doing is very cool.
She just now started thinking what I do is cool again now that you're in Arawhine.
Right.
It was like her friends are like, your brother sells a Patago and that's so cool.
She's like, I guess that is kind of cool. She was like, oh my gosh, you got a photo with problem like that.
We're gonna be.
Friends now we made it. Yeah.
So, as Brian is alluded to, like, so first of all, you know, tell what is mere?
So I wanted to start back, what is trained all the way at mer? Yeah, you know, we it's funny. We I wasn't like, I don't know, it's just like concept. It's it's just like theoretical. But at the end of the day, we sell cups. But now we're into you know, soft goes like apparel and hats and beanies and whatnot. But the general ideas that we sell stainless steel drink ware. And it's pretty like what's that, mama?
How are you? Yeah? Uh stanles still drinkwaar back.
Yeah, yeah, anyway at home studios, man, it's good.
Yeah, home studios, guys. It's real, real deal, both sides, both sides, all right. Yeah, we sell we sell stanless stel drinkwaar and it's I mean, it's very on trend these days, but in two thousand and nine it was like very not on trend. But it's you know that it's well, I say, it's more theoretical. The idea that Back and I had was we wanted to start a business together, but we wanted to do it a different way.
We wanted it to be philanthropic from day one.
So it was like we observed the capitalism was kind of you do something, you build it up your mass wealth, and then you sell it or you know, you give back later in life when you're like sixty or seventy, right, Yeah, And our concept was like, we want to give back through every single transaction. So from day one, even though when we were profitable, we were still contributing to lots of different projects all over the world.
Yeah.
I think I just listened to.
Like the ted talks from the the former owners and CEOs of Or of Patagonia and North Face that like got together, hooked up and then moved to Chile and just started buying land and make it preserved, you know what I mean to your point, So it's like, all right, we've amassed this insane amount of wealth at the end of our work, so now we're just gonna buy land
to preserve it, you know. And how in your like in all of our brains, anybody, if you listen to my show where You're just like, that's just kind of.
Feels I just want to make money. Yeah, it kind of feels gross, you know. But after being around you and kind of like meeting the pattern, like now that I know people at Patagonia and like really their vision is like what can we do to preserve the planet And if the plant, if what makes the world go around is money, then like we will buy it, and we will will buy it and do nothing, Like we are going to turn this into a national park and y'all can make the money off it, you know what I'm saying.
It's like, well, yeah, you could camp here, you do.
Like, like there's this there is this perception that like if you buy land to sit on it to preserve it, it stops making money. I'm like, well, have you been to Yellowstone? Like you pay to get in, like Joshua Tree, like you pay. You know what I'm saying, Like these are they can be money making endeavors. But he's like, yeah, I just I bought it so that you won't tear
it down. Like but like you said, that's like at the end of their careers, you were you came in with a code that was like even before we're making money.
We're already establishing a practice.
Of giving you know, in in in as best as you can, right.
Yeah, yeah, I think Oh no, I was just gonna say.
I think partially was because if you don't start, you might never start, you know, because it's so hard. I mean literally, the entrepreneur journey is so difficult. And I kind of knew that from some other stuff that I'd done before that. But if we didn't start from day one and just this is what we do, this is what we do, this is what we do, it would be so easy to justify I'm going to do it next year, I'm going to do it when I get to this level, or I'm going to do it when
I get to that level. Because but I've seen people get to those levels and then they're like, well maybe when I sell the company or maybe you know, maybe tomorrow.
Right, And so we just didn't want to do that we want to do from day one.
Do you do you think that that that made the ride a lot longer?
Oh?
For sure, right the ride. The ride has been a
lot longer for variety reasons. I think partially because we have focused on generosity, for sure, But another element is that like we don't have any private equity or venture capital on our cap table, and so what the I mean essentially, what that means is like private equity wasn't really a thing back in like the sixties and seventies, you know, kind of started arising the nineties and two thousands, and people who aren't in business might not ever see
it or like understand what it actually is. But it's like optimizing business to to what I would say is an unhealthy level because it's it's not long term minded, it's short term minded. It's like, how can I buy a bunch of businesses, optimize them on the back end, and then build this company and then flip it and
sell it in five years. And usually what that means is like cutting costs, degrading benefits, It's a whole host of things, and so you can get to a number faster, so I send the Juramys longer.
Yeah, but I think it's more durable, to be honest.
So it's almost like, I mean, the way you describe it is like, yeah, it's like that's like drug dealing or like flipping houses where you're like just get in, buy them up, cut the fat as quick, and usually what the fat is is humans? Right, you know, say it like it's the exploitative way that you know what
I'm saying. But you, like you said, but you get a bunch of them, get it to the thing, flip it, and then you're like, oh good, And then, like you said, you could patch yourself on the back and be like.
Well now I'm gonna do good you know what I mean later on?
But yeah, but see that's the part where I'm just like you, like you said, I'm like, it just feels exploitative in its in its DNA.
But if you were like.
Because of the top, because it is right, yeah, Like, well it feels like it because it is. So I want you out to I want you aut to to catch this that you were like you took no venture capital. You were like, yeah, we're just gonna out the mud.
Yeah, and you know it's you know boostrapping is is? Is it? For sure? Challenging? You know, but let's be real, like it wasn't that.
Difficult for me to hit up one hundred people in Seattle and ask them to and invest because like the reality like, so, so I don't people to mishear me. It's not like Beck and I one hundred percent did this on one hundred percent of the company. Yeah, we brought on friends and family in twenty sixteen because we
were growing so fast. Yeah, that it was either go to private equity and sell my soul or go to a handful of f my friend that says, hey, do you want to invest twenty five k hunter k whatever it is that you can There's no guarantees, by the way, you know, So it's kind of there was a lot of those, a lot of l's, a lot of like, no, what's your actual strategy? I don't have one. What do you mean you I have an actual strategy. Everybody is an extra strategy. We just want to build a great
business and hopefully return capital at some point. Yeah, And which is kind of crazy, to be honest, because most people, most investors, are like, am I gonna get my money back in five years, ten years, fifteen years?
And I said, I don't know.
I don't know. Gee whoa.
That's the stuff that nobody sees. But the stuff that people do see is on it. I'm holding this cup, y'all. Look, you've had my merch You've seen this logo, you've seen this cup in the inside and what we always brag about is like keeps the hot hot and the cold cold. Right,
It's durable. I travel with it. The poor Gami that everybody get, our bottles, the tell Better Story hoodies, like all of it is from here, but so from the front end, like tell me about your supply chain, the stainless steel, the reclaim project, like all of those things that have to do it, like the front facing stuff.
Yeah.
So you know, we try to be as transparent as as we can. And part of it is just you know, when back when I started it, we didn't want people to buy the product out of guilt or because we were doing good. Now listen, a lot of people do buy it because we do good, and that's fine, But
we wanted to build the best possible products. My background is product design and sourcing and marketing, so I want to make the best possible product because I you know, looking back, it's like I saw Tom's, yeah, and people were buying Toms because they were cool.
But they lasted a couple of weeks, like they were not well.
Yeah, and there's questions I don't know about, like were the others you getting there and were you actually helping in Africa. You know what I'm saying, like, because I think a lot of times people that like, you know, give model also like raise his eyebrows because it's like, all right, you know, you build it well in this village in Africa. Oh yay, we did it, and then you just caused the civil war now because now they're fighting over water rights because you ain't got all work.
But you felt great because but but you gave, we gave to build a well, it's like, nah, did you you know what I'm saying? Or did you make it worse?
You feel me? Yeah?
Yeah, Well, I mean, you know, I think early on, we really you know, because of Tom's and you know, there was this like people wanted this precision of like if I buy this, what happens? And so we really tried for the first few years to like connect the dots. If we buy this bottle that helps give somebody clean water for about a year and their averages right yeah.
And it worked for the time.
But you know what we really tried to focus on is moving from kind of what the terminology is, like power based philanthropy to relationship based filanthropy. So power base is like, hey, I hold the power because I'm right in the check. Yeah, here, nonprofit, here's one hundred thousand dollars. I need you to give this only to the people in the field or the project or whatever else I'm gonna tell you. And then in return, I want photos, I want this, I want that.
Right. So that's kind of the old way.
And we've had a lot of you know, we've listened to a lot of our nonprofit partner and we just said, actually, this is how you innovate. I think we've just said, hey, what's working and what's not working? How can we help you better? And they said, you know, it would be really great an unrestricted grant, which in the nonprofit world is kind of crazy because you know, all the people who are looking for grants from all the foundations of all this stuff, usually there's strings attached.
Yeah, you know you do this, you can do this, but you can't do that. Yeah.
And then so we want to unrestrict it. And said, oh, okay, well let's think about that. What's what's the downside of that? And for us, there wasn't really one other than like, we're just gonna tell stories about the nonprofit and the general work that they do versus like it went to this place on this place in the place, right. So for us, we've kind of shifted to that relationship where it's, uh, we're asking them, how can we help you in a way that's like, Hey, we're just gonna build, We're gonna
we're gonna audit for sure before you check. We're gonna make sure that you're not taking like one hundred percent of this and just like put in your pockets, right, like what percentages actually go into the projects? Right?
Yeah, Because that's what I was gonna say.
Like, it's like before I even approach, before you even approach him, you've already done your homework, Like I believe that you're you know what you're doing.
That's why I'm willing to give you this money.
So if I already trust you, why would I tell you what to do with your money? You know what I'm saying, Like, you've already shown me that totally you're who you say you are, which is why I'm down to hell.
Well, it's it's almost like if you took that same model of like power based pilanthropy and you and you put into like power based private equity, it wouldn't work or even like investing right, Like, yeah, if I want to have to an investor and said hey, I need one hundred thousand dollars, and somebody who was passionate about operations was like, great, I'm gonna invest one hundred thousand dollars in business, Brian, But you can only spend that on supply chain. I'm like, hey, I gotta go to
a trade shuttle, like it's the sales. They like, yeah, no, no, you can only use it for this Like that's insane, right, And yet we're expecting these nonprofits to operate in a completely different model, and so I think I'm a huge advocate for relationship under strictter grants.
Yeah, let them, let them do it.
Totally, so good, totally.
Yeah. So back to the product. So this stainless steel, Yeah, right.
Stainless steel. At day, stainless steel ninety percent recycled.
We might get to one hundred percent someday, but sometimes you got to mix in a little bit of version with the with the recycled, make it nice and nice and durable. Yeah, but that's a that's been a you know, a transition as well over the last couple of years of trying to get all of our products into recycled material if it's the same or better quality. And the reality is was recycled stainless. There's no different from a
quality perspective. Yeah, because it goes into a massive smelter and just like comes out the other side in a tube. But it reduces emissions dramatically on the front end. So yeah, that's a huge change. All the plastics that we work with are mostly recycled plastics. Like the lids on the bottom of most of our products, there's a you know, there's a coat on the bottom.
You are sure that give code.
And again inside of transparency, we want people to know where are we sourcing from, where we who we donate money to. Yeah, it's an invitation, I'd say to come and and and you know peak on the elis to speak.
Yeah, And and then there's the reclaim program to where like right, if you're done with the cup, right.
Yeah, well recycle for you. You can recycle or we can do for you.
And you know, we really want to take ownership in the full journey of the product life cycle. Yeah, which is kind of crazy, but I don't think it's gonna be that crazy. And years to come and I'll give you. An example, Google stops supporting Nest security camera or security you know on the door homep together home stuff, right,
just stop supporting so it doesn't work. So now I have this, like all these lithium OMN batteries, all these gadgets from Google, and they're just like sorry, and I'm like, what do you want to do this? So like, oh, take it to a local electronics recycler and maybe there's one in your town, but maybe not. It's like I should be able to just send it back to Google and be like you made this, you deal with it. Yeah, you know, like it really put a bad taste in
my mouth. And I don't think we're quite there yet. People are just throwing clothes in the trash and whatnot. But I'd love to see more companies, you know, kind of take responsibility for the full.
Product life cycle. Yeh's bringing it back or recycling in it.
You know, if we have misprints or there's some damage, we'll try to fix it.
We'll send new gaskets, new lids, like we want this to remain.
And it's like as long as possible is good, because it's like you're not just like, well you bought it, like it's yours now, you know what I'm saying, Like we did our part.
You're like, well, no, like that's not it.
Like because when you get into y'all, which we'll we'll get into later, like the b Core, the you know, the one hundred percent carbon neutral, like all the stuff that like the world has said, we looked under the hood, they're doing it.
You know what I'm saying to me, Like that is a part of it.
That's us you going back and being like I'm gonna pick even if you took it, I'm still gonna pick up trash here.
You know.
You can't just leave the park and be like, well we did our part, you just cause you guys through your trash all over the floors and I was like, no, like, this is our park here, you can bring your trash to us.
You know what I'm saying. I think that that's that's beautiful and.
It's just at the end of the day, like it's a really really really good product, you know what I'm saying. And and just fun now your treatment of your employees now, I know now, okay, listen, I am aware that when I come into y'all space, I am aware.
Of the pier Dynamic. I am one of the front.
Facing ambassadors, and the owner is bringing his friend in, so everybody, of course is going to be as well behaved as possible, you know, I for real, But I will say this in my experience, when there is problems, someone dms me, Like if I'm at a place, if I'm at an organization, I'm at a thing. You know, I'm messing with somebody publicly. I like, whether it's a coffee industry, music industry, or whatever it is. Somebody goes a prop I know what you stand for, and like,
I don't know about them fools. Here's my experience. I don't want to be a hater, but like here's what somebody always gets to me, you know what I'm saying, And then it's on me to be like, okay, let me hold that or back off a little bit, like maybe not be so one hundred percent all in on somebody and be like all right, well, yeah, pull back a little bit. And I've had to in past, had to be like pull back a little bit and just you know, hey.
Hey, they're just merch. They're just merch.
I don't know, you know what I'm saying, but like I haven't had to date, I haven't had that experience. So that is something to be said about your hiring practices and your your pay scales and all those all those good stuff.
Can you talk a little bit about.
Like how those practices of like you said, like full transparency, full justice, treating your your staff well, because and you don't really have a lot.
Of turnover, like what I've noticed, you know what I'm.
Saying, Like, yeah, and we publish all that data on our annual impact report.
See it's all published.
You can see our turnover.
You can see our you know, gender breakdown, you can see you kind of see our leadership breakdown. And you know, I think it starts with again that idea of just we want to do we want to build a responsible business.
Yeah, and you know, the reality.
Is we have had a lot of growth over the years, which is afford us the opportunity to invest in our people. So I guess there's one sense we don't have to Cause the early days, it's like I didn't have health care for like the first four years of YR. You know, like yeah, but now we can offer healthcare, and we do offer healthcare, and we offer health care to our employees their dependents and their children. So like, we cover one hundred percent of the health care costs for everybody
inside the family. The only people who are doing that is like tech companies maybe yeah, because their margins are insane and so people are like, well, why do you choose to do that? And it's like it would feel disingenuous like that, and I would not feel good about ourselves if we paid for our one hundred percent, but not for everybody else, right, yeah, And so it's about business at the end of the day, is about trade offs.
And so for us, we're willing to trade up, so to speak, and treat what we think our employees really well.
Yeah.
Now, I will say sometimes when we hire younger employees who haven't had other experiences to other companies, Yeah, oh this it's not that, it's not fair, it's not you know, it's not enough. And then either they leave or we ask them to leave, and they're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea, how good I had it?
Word yeah, yeah, yeah, you know things like that. It's you know, parental leave.
You know, we're we have a young company, so a lot of people are having babies and you know, back and I We love it. We love letting people take four or six months off when they have their kid.
You know.
We didn't have that opportunity with our first two, but on the on the last one we did, and so it's, yeah, we just feel we just feel like it's.
A huge privilege to let our our team.
You know, you know Jenny on our team, my assistant, you know, she's on materorney leave until January, you know, and I miss her deeply, but it's like I kind of have.
To step up.
Yeah, you know, yeah, so we again it's and I think it's because we're long term minded.
You know, we're not thinking about the results.
I mean, we look at the results quarterly obviously, daily, weekly, monthly, the whole stuff. But we're looking at like what can we build in ten or twenty years. And I think when you look at that time horizon, it affords you the opportunity hopefully, if you run your business responsibly, you can do those sorts of things. And it's also like it's double edged sword, meaning like if we're able to provide these great benefits for our team, we also have
to perform. So there's a there's this bit of like give and take it doesn't mean just everybody gets all these things and we can just hang out and have you know, fun.
We'd like to have fun, but it's also like we have to perform at the end of the day.
Yeah, you definitely. And I've noticed that around y'all too. You expect the staff to be like, Okay, we're giving to you lavishly. We are trying to be a better company. So fam you got to bring home some bacon, like you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know, I don't know where you think this healthcare coming from. You know what I'm saying that you bring it home to bacon.
You feel me. And it seems as though people are like super motivated.
You know.
I've even recruited for you. You know what I'm saying, Like you've been like, hey go get this fool. I'll put it in a good word, but like you know, because it's I've just like I said, I've just.
Seen that, like it just ends up being a good look.
So this would not be genuine if it wasn't if I didn't bring.
Up some l's like.
Where you guys, where have you guys like fucked up royally? You know, like some real l's where you were just like, yeah, no, we got take that in a chance it was all wrong.
Here, Oh man, pick a pick a category, prop like right, like supply chain product hr Yeah.
Oh yeah, I remember the story about about one high.
We ain't gonna get into it, but about higher that you were just like, oh, I have to fire him now.
Yeah.
There's only one person that I fired in my entire life, and that was that was one of them, and it was for great reasons.
Yeah.
Yeah, we'll keep that offline.
Yeah, I mean.
Even you know, even getting into like, you know, to be honest, real talk, like we had layoffs two years ago because were on this COVID rocket ship and it and it came down faster than we thought. We had to make some changes and yeah, you know we legally we could have said, hey, your job's gone.
Sorry.
Yeah, but we get people as much runway as we could, you know, so months of salary, you know, healthcare where we can, because I think you're always going to have these ups and downs with business, and it's how you treat people through those ups and downs that are really
going to make a difference for yourself. And yeah, so you know, I think looking back it's like, you know, I want to I want to be I want to be proud of the decisions we made, even even in tough times, you know, even when it's not working out, when it's like, hey, we don't need this role anymore. We want to help you. We'll help you find another job. Like being more candid I think is really really important
in the process. But I mean else, gosh, how many so many l's like manufacturing ls I mean one of the first uh.
Trying to think of which which ship of this was we had, Oh, this is way bad.
It is like twenty fourteen, we were doing this project for ARII and I had I mean I was probably twenty eight, you know, so ari I was like not taking me seriously, and I had, like I brought in an advisor who was much older than me, just to make it upear that we were like bigger than we were,
you know. Yeah, And we did this product for ARII and they wanted the bottom to have this crisp, clean, stainless kind of lower half, lower third and the fact we royally watched it like it was out sourced twice, so we don't even know what was made day and it came in with like ninety percent rejection on the QC. Like at first we're like, oh, there's a couple and then we then we like went to the DC and we opened up all of them and.
It was like a like an absolute disaster.
And I'm trying to think, I mean, we just we we remade the product air fredded it in and you know, we always want to take care of the customer. It sounds this sounds really obvious, m hm, But there is a strategic advantage in any business by taking care of the customer.
Yeah, if you're just like, hey, guys, this batch was trash, Yes, and I am so sorry, We're going to remake it totally.
It is what it is.
And it's scary in the moment to be to be like, I gotta tell his customer we messed up. But man, being honest with your customers and taking care of it and doing the right thing for the most part, always pays off. And you shouldn't do it because it pays off. You should do it because it's the right thing to do. But I'm constantly blown away by how many times our competitors mess up and they're like, well, it's kind of on you.
The customer and they're.
Like, wait, what, Yeah, well you wanted it by this date, so here it is. Yeah, exactly, no, I wanted what I ordered by this date.
Totally, totally, totally what a there's like, man, there's so many, so many else. One time my or one of our suppliers email got hacked and they yeah, like I mean, it's like a long story of like how they did this, but it was like they just changed the name on their email address and somehow made a fake.
It was not like my email address at mere dot com.
It was like a fake mirror bottles one two three at dot com, the type of thing. And they went back and forth. Anyway, the whole thing long is very short, will be like I basically wired. I think I wired like ten or twenty grand to like a fraudulent account, you know. But what's crazy is the hackers kept sending messages back and forth after they already hustled the money.
Like you guys, you got it, guys, you got it, you did it. We're like we know you, we know your hackers. Yeah, totally, like you already got me, guys, you already got me.
Yeah.
I think that was like twenty fourteen. I mean, it was like at the worst possible time too, Like I clearly needed the ten or twenty grand and I was like, okay, we're just out of that money.
Like here we are.
This is a disaster, you know.
And you know, I think in general, I've always moved really fast, like I have an idea and I'm like, let's go, right, And I think looking back sometimes I'm like, you know, it would have been proven to just kind of pump the brakes, get some buy in versus just we're gonna go, you know. Yeah.
Word, so certified B Corp.
Yeah, we're certified B one percent for the planet.
Yeah, what does what does any of that mean?
Yeah, we're certified.
Ever, I mean, they are all a bunch of you know, it's so funny we get bills for you know, because you have to pay for these certifications, right, Okay, well you pay to like test and then if you achieve the tests, you get to show that mark. Right, And so it's now the bills are substantial and I'm like, my gosh, these certification do these matter?
You know?
And yeah, I think the reality is that it's it's again, it's another piece of transparency where it's not just us saying that we're doing good. It's other nonprofits kind of checking over the hood, auditing, asking your employees questions, verifying if everything we say we're doing is true and accurate, and you know it matters.
There's communities around a B corp. You know, patagoan news a B corp.
Yeah, there's you know, climate neutral certification one percent of the plan. So anyway, B corp is essentially like, are you doing are you operating your business for the benefit of the community of your stakeholders?
Not just your shareholders, but your stakeholders.
So the distinction of being the shareholder someone who owns equity units in your company, a stakeholder would be an employee, community member, supply chain.
All those sorts of things make up your B CORP score. It's really hard.
It's a it's an insane assessment. It takes so long to fill out, so it's it's brutal, but it's the real deal. And so there's that one Climate neutral just changed their name to to Change Climate and the new it's Europe has made laws that you can't claim carbon neutrality on product specific eyeps.
So anyway, it's long story. It's a good thing, but we're we're our goal.
Is to offset any of our scope through emissions, so transportation from the factory, the factory at the emission emissions, you know, the way that we view this. It's funny because it's interesting how climate has gotten.
Like political in my opinion, in your opinion, Okay, it is.
Unfortunately, yeah it is.
But the reason I think it's kind of funny is because it's like, imagine, let's say, let's say we're doing this because the climate is warming. On the other side of the argument, right, yeah, Well, what happens if it if it goes back or it changes again, Are we just going to go back to the old ways of just few like yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean sometimes people positions are like, we have to do this to save the world.
Okay, let's say we did it, are we going to go backward?
Like no, of course not, right, of course not.
Yeah, And then on the other side, you're like, you know, what'd be a great idea. Let's say we're wrong. Let's say that actually we didn't contribute to it's just natural cycles. I still think it's a great idea to conserve resources.
Still pretty dope, Still kind of a good thing.
Yeah, we're you know what I mean, Like, I don't know, so I think you know from my from my seat, it's like it seemed to me it seems like a really great idea to use ninety percent recycled steel because the incremental cost is not that much to do something that is dramatically more impactful for the environment.
Yeah, period, And it's just sitting there, it just makes so much sense.
You know.
There's there's a part of me that's like the way that this is why I say, to the extent that you can do this well, like the reality of African cobalt minds, you know, nickel and stuff like that, that like it is, I don't you can't exist in a modern world without having some sort of child labor blood on your hands. You're like, I just that's why it's just covered up. It's covered up in a new you
know what I'm saying. Like, you know, there's obviously greenwashing is a thing, you know what I'm saying, Like all these things are like our realities, you know. But like you said, to the extent that I can that I could say, okay, why I've washed genuinely my hands up to ninety percent you know what I mean, now, I don't know the steel that is recite. I don't know how that got out of the ground, you know what I'm saying, Like that might have been slave labor too.
I don't know, Like you know what I'm saying, Like I'm on the planet. I think about that all the time. We always say a phrase on the show you in the ocean, you might as well swim like I can't.
I can't help it, Like I'm all, I'm in the ocean. You know. We sell ads. I am on iHeart podcast network. I do.
It's it's a it's a multilateral corporation. Guys like I, I pay a mortgage to a mortgage company.
Yeah, I just I don't know, man.
But I think it's about progress, you know.
And I think people be like, oh, yes, you know, it's progress over perfection, blah blah blah. I just I think there's so much room to go on conscious capitalism or whatever you want.
To call it.
Yeah, but I think this is I truly believe that capitalism right now is the best so far U huh, Meaning like there's probably there's the possibility of what it could be is even greater than what is today. I mean it's already like we've already changed our business model in ways that we didn't know fifteen years ago. And we started right, and so like yeah, I just look at history and I go, you know, I mean, dying from like tetanus sounds horrible.
Yeah, diyssanentary because your water is dirty. I don't want to do to death.
Yeah, or I'm part of some ethnic race the leader who's in charge doesn't like. So therefore, like yeah, you know, there's going to be a different model of whatever it is.
You know, like I don't know, Russia wasn't great back in the day.
No, yeah, it was China, right, So yeah, which, so it's not to say that like Capital M is pure and blameless. I just think that it's the best so far. But let's make it better, Like why not make it better? You know? And I think it's really comes down to each Really it comes into consumer's power because I think sometimes I get lost and I'm like, ah, it doesn't matter, you know, like where I buy this thing doesn't matter, but it actually does matter.
Yeah, you know, And I think there's I think.
There's power, and I think there's beauty and being able to choose where you buy a thing.
From Yeah, I love that.
But you can also be like, yes, it's horrible and we're destroying the world and you.
Know, I mean, then drink out of your hands. I mean, I don't know what to say, dude.
Like it's like, you know, it's like power based versus relationship based lanthrope. Yeah, you know, we're moving, we're weaving, we're trying to get better.
Yeah, and you're gonna you're gonna have to adjust, Like you said, I'm gonna make some l's like I'm doing the best with what I got. I'm gonna learn maybe five years from now that this move wasn't the best move. But I think the the willingness to be like to self reflect, to look and be like, yeah, this was our goal. Like you said, we came in trying to be this and we still want to be this. We're just not achieving it using the tools we have now, so let's find better tools.
I'm with.
So now it's sign for you to sell stuff. So tell me, tell me about the sales.
Like what links just come check it out?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead, Oh no, it's just all.
The you know, it's it is interesting because, like you know, promos holiday, Like usually on Black Friday, we're kind of just like, yeah, take it or leave it, Like we're not gonna We're not gonna discount it.
You know. I mean the whole idea of discount is kind of funny to me too.
So it's like, I mean, I get it, you're trying to get these pops and we you know, we do, we try to get as creative as we can, but like idea, the whole the whole thing on Black Friday is kind of funny where it's just like we're just gonna massively decrease what we perceive as value in our company for a day to get more sales, versus like, how about we just like sell it for the price that we always thought it was fair to sell it at.
You know, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say.
It's like, so you're telling me that your product was massively overpriced for the whole year, right, so now that you now that you can sell it at the cost where you that's where it should have been the whole time. That's what I always think where I'm just like, oh, so because you're not gonna do it at a loss, I know that much. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, like so and against.
Then you know, it gets into like skews and you know, ones that aren't performing as well you want to discount and move them through. I mean, there's a lot of nuance to it too, but in general, it's like Black Friday.
Yeah, it's just.
Oh yeah, well.
Let's go buy some more stuff so we can feel objects.
You hear this guy, he's like saying, and I gave him a chance to sell stuff, and he's just like, man, that's what I mean by like they're different, you know, I mean, but yeah, you we.
Are doing something.
We are doing something really cool this year, and it's it Drops eleven one.
So maybe this is out I don't know, it's somebody out by eleven one. But it's not fun too.
We've got twelve days of drops, so it's kind of like the twelve Days of Christmas. But we have twelve different brand partners ranging from like really cool coffee shops, some really cool outdoor brands, and we're dropping like collaborative mugs, one brand per day for twelve days, and you can buy the whole setup you want stuff. So they're super unique because again, it's like we want to do something fun, different, interesting.
Like I think cannas is like day one, yeah, which is gonna be super fly.
Cannabis is in the place that has like a two year waiting list to eat in Seattle.
Yeah, they're crushing.
Yeah, so that's gonna be That's gonna be super fun, very giftable.
You know. So there's that, you know, we'll have some you know, personalization.
You can you know, you can put your leg you know, put your grammar's face on a bug or something.
Yeah. That things are etching.
It's super Yeah, they're like this will I guarantee you this will be your forever water bottle, your forever cup, your forever so yeah, it's just yeah, like and you know like sometimes like water bottles are even doper when they're dented a little bit, you know what I mean, like because they got a little history on it.
And then if they.
Start at that patina, Yeah that patina, Like it's yep, yep, yep.
Yeah. We we like we like that. What else we do.
We've got a as you know, we drop soft kids. Oh my gosh, I got share this crop. So you know our team is like, oh yeah, graphics. So it's like, you know, like the thank you thank you have a nice day. Uh huh, So yeah.
Thankful for thankful Day.
So we have a day where we just we all break bread and have lunch together and we call it thankful Day.
But we started dropping merch internally. This is riding a turkey.
They got eternal merch. Sorry audio, that is so great.
The dude love it.
I mean, you know you recommended Liz thanks to prop Liz Chai and the team coming up with a meer cat right in a turkey, meer cat right to public. But we got a Softka's about a year ago. And we've got a we've got a recycled Cashmere beanie coming out this holiday season.
Sheesh.
And I think it's like seventy five dollars because it's super expensive to make. Yeah, but let me tell you it is so soft, and it's it's recycled or like what why would we do virgin cashmere. Let's go recycle cash the product already exists, Let's just remake it.
The thing is yeah, Like I like, if I can make this very clear, like if you're an artist, you're a pod. You produce a thing you need, and you need merch, like mer con source not only your cups and bottles and stuff like that, but also sweaters, hoodies, beanies like like this can be rather than ordering from American Peril or Bella Canvas or something like that, you could say. And they have the ability to design, they
can help with design. They print, they you know if they homies printing it, you know what I'm saying, So like the stuff gets to you quicker, like I'm telling you this, like this is my whole chest.
I can get behind that now.
Granted, because it's so quality, because it's so fast, You're not just going to a sweatshop and getting getting a sweater for three bucks. It's gonna cost you more, but it's a higher quality. You know it ain't ain't nobody. Ain't nobody get trafficked into making these things, which is why it costs so much, you know what I'm saying. And on top of that, like again, business brain, you sell it at a higher premium, like like just it's that's why it had fifty dollars.
It's kind of been a kind of a conundrum for me of like having to explain to folks dollar margin versus percent margin, even like really well intended like shop owners, you know, We'll be at a trade show and they're like, wow, you know this is more expensive than blah blah blah blah bl you know whoever.
And I'm like, yeah, it is, but you also make more. And they're like, what do you mean.
I'm like, well, if you buy this shirt from somebody else at ten dollars and you read yourself for twenty in ten bucks, if you're buying hours for fifteen, you're reselling it for thirty, you're making fifteen dollars assuming you're selling one for one. In general, we've seen people sell it more like faster. Yeah, you're gonna make more dollar march and they're like wait what.
Yeah, trying to lay that out, and I figured, like my business brain is like I got it. I'm a C minus at best, but I do know how to push merch and like yes and the.
Like you said, the perception.
Now we're getting really into business stuff, but like your product, a lot of times, if it's too marked down, then I'm like, well you think this is cheap, Like you think this is trash?
You know what I'm saying.
Now, if it's way too high, then it's like all right, you're tripping. But you set it at a price that says, nah, there's value.
You know what I'm saying.
One of my favorite brands right now is Born and Raised. Their hoodies are two hundred dollars, and it's like, which is I get it insane, but like there are some of them hoodies. I'm like, I am doing that because one I've ordered a hoodie from them for and it's a dope hoodie. And two I'm like, I believe in y'all. This is us, Like you're making a statement on like, no, this is my soil here. I believe I am Born and Raised, you know what I'm saying. So like that buy in has to do it not so much to
price point, but who you are as a brand. I'm like, you believe in me, so like I'm gonna give you quality stuff because you believe in me.
Can feel me?
So yeah.
Anyway, we off.
The rain and it's all like, well, I mean, you know, business and consumerism, Yeah, you know, we're all consumers and it sucks like we're you know, I don't want to produce myself to being an up consumer, but I am a consumer of many things. Yes, food, gasoline, sometimes yeah, actually oftentimes because I fly. Yeah, I haven't figured out that gas let's flying yet. But it's all about trade offs, you know. So it's like, you want to buy something more responsible, it might cost you more money.
It's just gonna cost more, yeah, but it.
Might last longer. It probably will last longer.
You know.
You want to eat better food, it's more expensive, You're you know, live longer, you know. And I think, yeah, that's if there was anything that I would really harp on right now. Where capitalism is not working is when you trade down on the trade offs and listen, not everybody can afford you know. Of course, what do they
call it now? It's like regenerative, organic, obliberty free. Yeah, but it's like, yeah, you know, we all have trade we all have trade offs and choices to make as to what we what we buy, and what we listen to, what we watch. Yeah, I mean your time. People think times free, It's not. Time is your most valuable asset and here we are wasting away on social media now, no soapbox, get back in the chair.
All right, all right guys, but no for real though, Brian, thank you so much for taking time for this is long overdue.
Man.
You were on the hit list the whole time. It kind of just like again show that is it even possible to do business well that minimizes the exploitation as much as it can. And uh no, appreciate you company here and just transparency and just being like, look we're doing our best.
Yeah, thanks man, It's always it's always good to hang out. I wish it was a person. Uh we all get in person.
Time here though, not enough man, Yeah.
Go back to go back to Korea. That was fun.
Yeah, dude, we went to Korea.
Guys.
It was pretty in.
Hong Kong, Hong Kong with Kenny Kong.
That was.
That was then.
Hong Kong was a great time.
What was it? What was your name?
Agetting back doc back down, back down, I forget what it is a cantonese it.
Was it was you can go anywhere. It was like water.
Yeah, like water, I can go anywhere backed out like here, you can do all of it.
Yeah.
Good mere dot com, y'all mere dot com, m doble i R dot com YEP.
Appreciate it.
Man's appreciate you, hommy fun chat.
Hang out chat Yuh all right, stop recording, uh waitng thing all right now, don't you hit stop on this pod. You better listen to these credits. I need you to finish this thing so I can get the download numbers. Okay, so don't stop it yet, but listen. This was recorded in East Lost Boyle Heights by your boy Propaganda. Tap in with me at prop hip hop dot com. If you're in the Coldbrew coffee we got terraform Coldbrew. You can go there dot com and use promo code hood get twenty percent off.
Get yourself some coffee. This was mixed, edited.
And mastered by your boy Matt Alsowski Killing the Beast Softly. Check out his website Matdowsowski dot com. I'm a spell it for you because I know m A T. T O s O W s ki dot com Matthowsowski dot com. He got more music and stuff like that on there, so gonna check out The heat. Politics is a member of cool Zone Media, executive produced by Sophie Lichterman, part of the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme music and scoring
is also by the one and nobly mattow Sowski. Still killing the beats softly, So listen, don't let nobody lie to you. If you understand urban living, you understand politics. These people is not smarter than you. We'll see y'all next week.