Lemme Holla Atcha Playr

incredible album. He murdered that mug. Shout out your boy. We've never met, but you represent with a jazz board on there. Jazz board j you know what I'm saying. He from the code six to six. Anyway, I'm getting off topic. Playing pool at this dude's house. I don't

even think my family knows the story. There's baggaweed that's in this drawer, which was like this older brother or sister whatever, bagaweed this in the drawer, and one of my friends, somehow or another, put together the right amount of words that would convince me that I was the perfect person to steal this bag from this this person's

older brother while we was over there playing pool. And I don't know what it was about the magical phrases and things that this person said that actually convinced me to think that this nigga knew exactly what he was talking about. But I was convinced we got it, had to figure out and out. And while we was figuring out out, the same dude was Jimmy Jabby Jabby jibby jabby blasi blog whoopy whoop. While we figured out a way out, and then we got out, and as we

were leaving, we're here to hey. And I don't know if I failed to mention how dangerous this older brother that we just thought as we broke was. Either way, it was trying to run. So ran to the homeboy who had this little v W bug that was just like you know, busted up two doors with the blink of missing you know what I'm saying, and just stupid high school like buddy at a car. So hopped in

a way, ran as fast as we could. Somehow another I decided to go that my backyard was the wisest backyard to come smoke this bag of weed at which, for some reason, I don't know why, I thought, I don't know how the niggas convinced me that my house was the best choice. But somehow we went back to my mama house in the back yard, and I think it might have been because maybe my mama was at like follow me now Wednesday night Bible study, choose at

a prayer meeting something. I just figured this was the best idea to come do this. And as they as we smoked this thing, and then they took off and then everybody left. I remember standing in my driveway like did I just steal this bag of weed and take it back to my house? And spoke out with umies why my mama was at a prayer meeting? It just all hit me up that and I was like, how did how did you convince me to do this? It's some people just got to give to gab y'all. Let's

talk about lobbyists, hood politics. What's up y'all today? We gotta guess we're got talked to the illustrious Miles Gray of the Daily Zeigeist. And you know, before cool zone media took off, you know, sandwich on me in right now. You know what I'm saying, Uh, Miles was my boss. But either way he's he's what Sophie called a podfather, him and him and Jack yeah saying and I take that, you know they geez, you know what I'm saying. Respect

do uh, but we're gonna have him in here. Miles has lived a ton of lives and I'm a had a hummy in to talk about lobbying. But I think a way to get your brain around this is like I remember I had a friend walk out the principal's office that we was all positive was gonna get either suspended or expelled. Somehow, another this nigga talked his way out of a suspension. I don't know. I still don't know how he did it. I still to this day, I have no idea how this nigga talked himself out

of a suspension. And he won't tell us. It's just like and he wouldn't tell us. I mean, I ain't seen the nigga in years, but I just remember, like this fool could talk his way out of anything. He did what the hell he wants Because he could talk his way. I was just like, how are you doing? Like how some people could just convince other people to do stuff even though they know they shouldn't do stuff. I'm like, what's this motivation? Is? This? Is this a like?

Are you a super villain? I just sometimes I feel like some Niggers have got the gifted gap but just super villains or you have to learn how to use your power for good. But dog, I feel like every hood got somebody. Every neighborhood got somebody could just talk their way in and out of anything. When I was in uh, when I was in college, I used to work with these these brothers, these uh Puerto Rican brothers uh out in Cove and no lie, y'all. These were

these these two brothers. They were gorgeous. I can't this listen, listen, you already know Puerto Rican man, look are beautiful. These two nicks just just gorgeous. Anyway. They never paid full price or for any entrance into any club festival event. They talked their way in and would just let somebody just tell me no. You could see if somebody find you, you'll get to a no. And if you get to

a no, you could either keep going or not. That was once I remember they talked their way into the v I P section for like wrestling event, and they just said that they were Dwayne's cousins, Oh you know him as the Rock, Like, yeah, no, they just talked their way into I'm like, how are you just listen? If you got the gift and you got the confidence, you could do it. But as uh the joker says, if you're good at something, never do it for free.

Let's talk about lobbyists. Hood politics y'all. How you so hood right now? Whole politics y'all of politics? Yo. The cheese mosuls mediicas cheese more size. You know there silver tongue folks that are just like always gossiping. I said, cheese mo soul. It's like that's a gossip. You know. Medic is like, Yo, you're so nosy like stuff being a medica, you know. And I just sometimes think like, as a lobbyist, you kind of gotta be both of those.

You gotta have a silver tongue and you gotta be nosy as hell, you know what I'm saying, because you got a game going on. But rather than listening to me talk to this talk about this stuff, I gotta guess which is funny because this is, uh, this is the two way page I got from my boy Jay Boy. Let's go from back then because his aunt worked at this fucking big gas real estate company and she was in charge of selling sending out all the corporate phones.

So they had a side hustle where she could just attribute a couple of loose phones every week to some whatever that. Yeah, so that's how I was talking two this is media and fucking two thousand four with my two way pager. Anyway, shout out the boy, the two ray page. Yo, this is the best way to start this. Ever, that's the exactly you just proved the premise of the whole ship. Ladies and gentlemen, Miles Gray has already wedn't even started yet, and he had already proved the premise.

First of all, welcome to the hip. Politics were putting all Miles Gray, say, what's up to the folks? Hey, hey, thank you for having me, thank you for having to talk about my past life. You know, it's always it's always a wonderful pleasure to do that, and especially to do it with you, you know, to do it, do it the right way. Let's go, y. Miles has lived a number of lives. We were just discussing his time

in radio, uh, his time underwear modeling. I was pretty sure that was bish I had known you then, man, Yeah, that was just I was an intern at Aftermath, you know, um, trying to make my way up, I wake your way up, making a little side money modeling draws. Was that you? That was you actually doing like the double he was doing all the b gvs for the Hero years. Anyway, we're here to talk about lobbying, like what is it what makes a good lobbyist? Because that was one of

miles past lives. But as you know, the premise of this show is if you've not only if you if you grew up in the inner city, drew in the city, grew up in the hood, not only do you understand politics, I'm gonna take it a step further. You'd probably be very good at it because of having to navigate the world you were in. So I'm gonna ask Myles a few questions. Then we're gonna go into the particulars of um, what it means to be a lobbyist, how to be

good at it, and all this good stuff. But we're setting up the premise like this imagine not so here. One of my past life was when I was in college. Uh, I found that the best like part time college job is to like substitute teach because you kind of just kind of make your own schedule. It's like hundred fifty bucks a day. You just kind of show I don't have to grade nothing, or they don't have to care. You know what I'm saying, Like breaking up a couple

of fights, You're not gonna hurt my feelings. Like I'm not gonna be here tomorrow. You know what I'm saying, Like I'll write a note for your teacher, like I guess your teacher say you gotta do this. It don't matter to me. You gotta be here tomorrow. I don't know what I'm saying. Uh So it's the greatest thing ever. But I felt like, Okay, what's I'm still son of a black panther. I still believe in justice, and I'm like, I'm gonna go where nobody else would go. So I

worked in juvenile halls. That's where I substitute to East Lake Correctional Facility. I Rocky Appleball, you know, Lucky for me, my, um my, my criminal record was all non violent offenses because they was because it was just graffiti. Um So I was able to get into these Oh man, I can't tell you that, bro, I was just kid. Now, I've always been I've always been propaganda. I've been prop for years. You know what I'm saying. Um, But yeah, yeah,

I just throw up prop um anyway. So I I oftentimes, even when I'm setting up this show the premises, like the terms I used when I decided to like I probably should explain this vocabulary word whatever the case may be, I'm always thinking about the kids in juvie like that's like, that's like that's my target, you know what I'm saying, Like I calibrate everything to being like there's a kid

in juven the hall. Understand what I'm saying. So here's here's our question for you, miss using your your knowledge of both lobbying and I'm gonna ask you later on like how you got into that. But just like uh and growing up in the city, survey that room, describe the kid that you would go, honest, fool would be

really good at lobbying. I would probably find out. I would say, who was running with a group of people they shouldn't have been running with and you know you shouldn't have been running with this group of people, and then have everyone just raise your hand. Okay, Okay, So now between all of you, how many of you were the smartest kid in that crew and everybody said you shouldn't really be running with us, but you're still there. Okay,

that's my wife. Also, how many any of y'all in here have cheated on a test or done some ship in school and somehow the teacher you talked your way out of it. Okay, your way out of anything, Okay, talk your way out of you gotta be smooth, um. And also who who who all here and understands that cash rules everything around us? Okay? Great? So whoever has their hands still raised at that point, I'd say is would be good. I mean, lobbying is like about it's

it's really like it's like organizing in a way. You know, you want to get people. You're trying to convince people of something, You're trying to create a base of people to move with you. But also when the ship goes down, you can slide right out the back and you can be like, damn, look at that mess that just happened. Look I love that last part to where you could slide out like damn, I don't know what. Yeah, damn. They're like that I believe they said that what's out

doing down here? Anyway? That's crazy? Okay, I'm gonna go yo. I feel like one of the I've said it so many times, one of the one of the greatest tools you can have in your tool belt is knowing when it's time to leave. It's just you. You just gotta know when it's like you have you able to read the room and be like, A that's probably right, and not to say like you're just planting bombs and then leaving.

But if you think of, like how so much of the lack of progress that we have legislatively is due to lobbyists, It's like it's more that like nobody's looking at them, you know what I mean, and everyone's looking at the politicians when you can draw many straight lines straight back to the lobbying efforts of corporations or business groups, industries and things like that, which is why there's a

you know, why there's so much gridlock to politically. We're gonna come back to that, because that's that's a good thing. I would love to hammer home. Um because I'm even thinking about a future episode with like kind of just talking about a little bit of like a mission drift, you know, when you know you come in, especially as a politician, with these you know, even sometimes very lofty ideas or or just an understanding that like, yo, this

is my this is my base. You know, these are my fans, this is my crowd, and I'm out here doing this for them. And then you get into the work and then you realize, like, I actually can't accomplish

what they want right without giving these certain concessions. And then it's almost like you just know how it works in Washington or on the Capitol, and it's like you come home and out of hood, don't even recognize you, and everybody mad at you because it is, but it's it's because none of us really see what's happening, what happens to you when you go that when you get like when you sign them, you know with a major label, like what happened to the Weekend? You know, Okay, he

went from I'm gonna just do this ship independent. Still I will force a label. Labels have a bidding war over my signature. And then you get in that machine and suddenly you're doing all this weird pop shit that wasn't even like the Horny House of balloons type mixtape stuff you used to do, or you're talking about snort and molly off a toilet and you know, messing the strippers and things like that. That's sort of like there's a there's something you know, your instincts can get old.

But that's also because you're moving into an environment that is just dealing with so much money that it's it's hard to sort of stand against the current and be a fixed object, like it will typically just sweep you away. Yeah, it's like do I do I keep this job? And like using the weekend as an example, just's like, hey man, you want to number one hit or not? Right? Like why are we why are we even here that? Why do you so start pop locking with daft punk? Okay? Yeah,

I can't feel my face when I'm with you. You know you want to perform the super Bowl? Like you can do that or keep making these like or keep it real? Yeah and make and I get it. It's then, and that's I think a decision a lot of people have to make her and sometimes people know it was like, you know, maybe he was just a shrewd business person the whole time and just knew that was his way

to get the most revenue for himself. But other times, I mean that was even me, Like before I got into politics, I was so fucking optimistic and so naive um that it only took a few election cycles for me to realize, Oh this, I'm like in the complete fucking devil's asshole of the whole thing. Wow, I want to get the funk out. He's like, I am I'm the problem. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm like, I'm I'm the fucking I'm the bad guy. And and I knew that

so clearly. So it was just it became a very quickly untenable situation for me, Like emotionally, morally, is it a part of that job that like, if you're good at it, that's inevitably where you're gonna land to where you're like, because I'm assuming with like if it's a lobbying firm, like you're not choosing the the things you're lobbying for, right, well, I mean typically right, So lobbyists, you know, just generally right that they say that etymology

comes from like back in the day in parliament, uh in England, where the the MPs would gather in like the lobbies in the House of Commons, and that was the moment where people who weren't elected officials could have a chance to bend the ear of somebody that was attached. I was going to ask that where the term. Yeah, so you're kind of like, you know, its fans waiting in the hotel lobby for the afters. You know, the groupies are at um. It's like, oh, there's their bust,

I want to talk about this bill. So, you know, a lot of it has to do with typically, right, the most the lobbyists that do the best are ones that come out of a part like a you know, a bureaucracy or typically held office themselves. That's why the revolving door is such a true thing about lobbying is that the people who really really get it in are the ones that have that very small degree of separation

between themselves and the decision makers. So for me where I was at, I was very far removed from doing like you know what they call inside lobbying, which is like the face to face with the legislators to get ship done. Then there's outside lobbying, which is like you are working on the forces around the legislators to to kind of get them to act okay and so are the firm that I would I worked for, um, you know,

has a mix of those things. The lobbyists like that we're out there like interface face to face with like politicians. They they're typically lawyers because they also have a degree of like legal understanding because half the time they're fucking writing actual bills anyway. UM, So you have to have that like legislative knowledge and legal lease knowledge to make sure that you're writing bills that don't have loopholes and ship like that. So those people, you know, like, there's

definitely levels to like how it works. Um. But in that instance, the people who you know, you might just you might just be in the fossil fuels because they pay the most. I don't know how many people are like I'm really you know, dedicated to this thing unless it's things like if you were for the Double A c P or other groups that do lobbying. Because it's not just corporations, but there are people who do it for you know, because they're seriously trying to change to happen.

But other times it's just about who's cutting the check. Yeahtane, that's that's that Seeing that that two different the two differences between being like outsider versus insider, Like if you're not you know, again using the using the city, you know as the motif, it's like, well, if you if you're not really, if you ain't really gang gang already, I'm like, I'm probably not gonna really hear what you

got to say, you know what I'm saying. But if I'm like, oh man, you know I was I went to Camp Rocky with this dude, you know what I'm saying, or like, oh man, we were sitting you know, we were sitting in County, you know what I mean, Like you know who was at the same kickback running from so on. So like, I know, this dude know what

it's like out here. So if he talking that yang, she talking that yang, then it's like I may I may have I may be more interested in hearing what they have to say, and that person is probably gonna know what I want to hear about because that Yeah, I mean, did you watch House of Cards of course? Okay? So me herschel Ali's character, Remy Dance, He's a perfect

example of this. Remy used to work for Frank as his chief of staff when he was like when he was in the you know, the House of Representatives, and so what happens is so then he becomes president. So now if you're if you're if you're like a lobbyist, and you're looking at how can I bend the ear of the president or a top senator, you start looking at people who used to work for them, and this second,

Oh yeah, that's the that's the first. That's the most effective way of like being like, you know what, I'm gonna get them and put a big pile of money in front of them, and then I got their ass because now when they go to see their old boss, their old boss, I'm like, oh, what's up, what's good? Oh yeah, let me know that the okay you're working with them, Oh, the fossil fuels thing, okay, the fracking right right right, okay, let me let me. I'm busy right now, but get back to me because you know

I've got time for you. That's that's sort of the cynicism involved, is to say you get people that are already familiar with the mark, so to speak, the fucking senator of the congress, person and the president, the mayor, the governor, whoever, because it's at every level, and that's the person that you use to start funneling your information through m HM. So is there a part of it, you know in uh in Spanish, the like the the medic or like the cheese mosa, like the just the gossip,

like somebody got their nose into everything? Is that? Do you kind of have to have a little bit of like a little bit of that too. You just gotta be nosy, I mean to a certain extent, but I feel like so much stuff is known in the open that you you just kind of you'll maybe just look

at polling or things like that. Maybe that you get you know, you get nosy by doing research because the other part of it is if you can't compel a legislator with just saying like you know, typically just money, then the next phase is to show them that it's a politically uh positive or accepted thing, or there's favorable polling around a certain bill, to say like, well look at this, you know, here's some other stuff to show you just to sway you and like the streets are

working with it. So maybe you're on board now, but a lot of it is to you know, the big thing is like lobbyists mostly trying not to lie, especially if you're direct lobbying because the second you lie about something and they know about it, it kind of ruins your cred completely. So there's a lot of finessing that you have to do to not really give half truths or over promised things, but also be you know, somewhat

clear enough to like sell somebody on a vision. And again, more than that, it's it's all going to go back to money more than anything, because that's why you see people voting against their own interests in you know, in Congress, and you're like, what the fun that's gonna sunk their own state up? And you're like, well, it's because it's because the money that's coming in. So yeah, So I

think of it too. Is like I always say, like, think of like a person who someone who's in Congress or the Senate as like a you know, like those NASCAR jackets that got all the sponsors and shipped on them. That's like what a senator should be rocking when they walk into the Indo Capitol Hill. So you already know who's paying the biggest chunks of their bills. You know, that's that's crazy. So you already you should be running in here flying your flag already yoh, yeah, yeah, I

mean because then it makes things so much easier. So you're like, of course he's gonna vote. Look at his back, says Texico. They got the hood, like the hood, the hood sponsor of the NASCAR. Not like the hood, but the on the hood of the car. That literally the prime real estate for a NASCAR Right, You're like, that's the fucking that's the be all, end all for sponsorship.

So that's the same thing to a lot of people have certain industries that they're beholding to because lobbyists, they do a lot of ship to help save people in Congress a lot of time by fundraising. You know, that's really how you lean on him, because you say, bag okay, yeah, I've well, damn you know, re elections campaigns are so expensive. I mean, man, like, I mean, I'm pretty sure I

can get a few people. I think I can get a couple hundred thousand a million or so together from people I know to help you out, because you know, we like working together. And so that's what you mean by like, it's the dude that can slide that motorola two way page or two you right, Yeah, he just got something like and they're able to get shipped quick.

But you got a guy quickly, yeah, quickly. And a lot of lobbies will talk about how they have many clients, right, but they'll even get their other clients to maybe help with another another thing dealing with another client, to say this is how we move like if we can put if we're all kind of sort of on a similar trajectory, then if I say we need to help this person out, we need to help this person out, because there's you know, the whole thing with it is so many um you

know with members of Congress in the Senate, they're allo committees and they have specialties when it when it comes to like legislating on certain areas of interest or industries

and things like that. So if you, let's say you run a for profit college, you want to look at the people who are on the education committees, and you want to look at people within the Department of Education that maybe you can talk to, but mostly the it's the it's it's the actual um politicians themselves whose influence that you want because if you have somebody on that committee, then you can kind of sway the bills that are going to affect your industry because you you're heading it

off right there. Yeah, So okay, so um um, like you said, I'm um divry Institute president. I don't know, I'll just show that out of nowhere, right And I'm like, okay, Yo, they talk about I don't know, we gotta retro fit these buildings I'm gonna cost, Like you know what I'm saying. You started thinking about like how much it's gonna cost. So do I So do I hit lobbyists and go hey, Hony, like hey, who you know it's so and so, like hey, tell them dudes, like, man, I don't I won't need that.

You know what I'm saying, Like what I what can I do? What can I do? Yeah? To make it? Just make make my bills a little bit smaller. Come on, like you know what I'm saying. So okay, that's dope. Okay, So now I'm getting even a more picture of like how to the two ways kind of work? Because again, if you're that kid that I could always call like the the guy that's on the end of I got a guy, right, So you're the guy. So if I'm like, oh,

I got a homeboy that can like you are the homeboy. Yeah, you're the one that's like I got you, Yeah, I holl that so and so. But but that only works if you deliver. Yeah. But also the hard part is though too. I don't want to get too ahead of myself because I just back to that point, right. So, for example, and even in that example of education and like more specifically pell grants, those are things that the government spends money on to allow people like veterans or

other people to get college money. But if you're putting money into like let's say a for profit college that isn't really giving people the education you need, that isn't gonna necessarily create somebody with the job skills that are hirable that can justify giving the grant, because you're the hope was the grant is going to create somebody with the job skills to enter the job market and have

some upward mobility. So let's say you're of shy sty fucking for profit college and you're like, all we do is pressure these people into getting loans and ship and we laugh them out the building when they say like master's degree, and nobody hires me Like yeah you thought man. Yeah. So, for example, if let's say a committee like an education saying we need to do it, and we need to

do an analysis on the efficiency of PELL grants. The last thing you fucking want is somebody looking into how inefficient that program is, because that's that's your fucking cash flow.

So what do you do? If you're smart, you talk to somebody who's either running ship in the Senate or has massive influence in one of these chambers, or is you know, the chairperson of a committee, and you're like, hey, if something, if a bill like that comes across, you're dead that ship the second you see it, because that's it's gonna be ugly. Yes, So I'm but like, okay,

that's dope. So if I'm if I'm the guy on this committee and I noticed crooked ass dude is hollering at me, like okay, so you've fin a dirty my rep. If I if everybody sees that this happens, or you don't give a shit, it's yeah, it's it's so on the open, it's normal. Yeah, that's the and I think, and that's why we have such a problem with it. It's not it's not a thing we're like, oh, did you see him talking to that fucking lobbyists. No, it's it's everybody is going because the same thing is going

to happen. They'll they'll talk to many people and say, hey, my client would love to give you a max out donation for this next election cycle. Oh my, you know, and we were in exchange that we'd love for you to meat or you'll do some ship like if they're like nah, I'm good or whatever, you're like, we're actually gonna give you an award. You know. There's so many

ways that this ship happens. Yeah, oh yeah, that's why people have these bullshit awards like that are essentially just they're they're vapor where they're just stupid things to stroke someone's ego, but really just curry more favor with somebody. And at that point, as long as you have enough sort of loyalty so to speak, it makes it easier to sort of act out the aims of your client.

And that's sort of what like, you know, there's like a tired quote about sort of like you know, the one number one goal for a lobbyes like I'm just trying to get done what's best for my client no matter what. And but again it's not looked at it cynically because it's so such a normal part of the process because there is also good lobby you know, there's also stuff to say like we need things to like reform bail and I want to talk to these people,

blah blah blah. But on the other side of it is when you have industries that are multibillion dollar in the stories, it also creates levels of lobbies for some people are gonna be like, oh, you want to talk to them because they control a lot of money, or they control a lot of influence, because there's ways to retaliate if you fall out of line. So that actually leads to like one of my my next question of like, is lobbying and politics just it's just inherently cursed, Like

it's just bad. And I think that this example you're giving of, like there are important issues that you're trying your best to like been that person's ear. I'm wondering if it's like I mean, if it's if you're saying lobbying is so out in the open and we noticed just slash with money, what I look like appealing to this person's morality about this issue when he's like, wow, don't know this bail bond's place just offered me five

million dollars. You know what I'm saying, Like, is there okay, Well, it's you know, it's not always like sort of seen as like oh, here comes this person with a bag of cash. I mean, on on some level that's sort of the subtext, but just overall, like the idea, the concept of it is to basically be able to have access to the decision makers to help sway something in

one direction or another. So there is a certain benefit to lobbying too, because a lot of politicians don't have expertise in the areas of maybe like energy or criminal justice reform. So a lot of the times, if you don't have staff around you who's focused on that and knows the ins and outs, there is a benefit to hear from somebody who can offer you some insight to a very complex issue. Because we've seen how stupid these politicians are. They don't know a lot of ship so

they it helps where people come through. But again that's where it gets murky, because someone can come you know, they're saying we need to look at this given issue, but at the end of the day they might just be ending up writing the whole bill and then be like, all right, now go find some people to vote for

this one, um, and then off you go. Um. And that's where like a politician has also got to do a little bit of their networking as well to be able to you know, sort of find people that are going to support a given piece of legislation and move forward in the same way. Um. So it's like, yeah,

it can, it can, it can. Sort of it has a broad spectrum, so it's not always you know, I think it's when a lot of scandals come out and you can actually hear what these people are sort of cynically saying out in the open um, and it sort of begins to kind of give people a clear picture of what's going on there. They make for a good villain, just like I mean, just like herschel Aali was, Yeah, he's a villain in the in the show because you knew when he showed up. You're like, oh fuck, yeah,

what the fund is remy here to say? Yeah. But the part, yeah, the part that became so interesting to me, especially like again using the lens of the show, was like it's a good villain. But I'm also like God, but I like that dude, Like you're like, yeah, you know, what I'm saying. I'm like the guy that talked us into like you said, we had no business. It was this fool's idea. You know what I'm saying. That we hopped in the car right, drove all the way up

to Lancaster. You know what I'm saying for this dumbass party right that. I don't know how this nigga convinced us. You know, I'm saying, but like we are, all of our lives are endangered, but damn that was kind of fun though, did Why didn't we? Yes? And it turns out they just needed to ride home. You know, You're just like you don't even know nobody there, like like how are we here? And it's like, but am I gonna call him next weekend? Yeah? Probably because he fun?

Like you know, that's the part to me that I'm like, as it's such an interesting thing that happens in our and and I imagine it's I imagine, like you said, the way that you describe that kid to where you like you're the smartest person on this block. I know

you angling for something. When you have an idea, you got all these reasons why, And despite my better judgment, I'm still like, god, oh, he kind of kind of makes sense though he seemed like, you know what he's talking about, you know what I'm saying, And I'm like, what a that's to me? It's like, that's a person, you know what I'm saying like that, And I feel like that kids at every tape, every lunch table. I don't care what little sub genre you in, and you

know what I'm saying. But the interesting thing is like, and it's not, but there's a whole thing behind this one guy. Yeah, And that's the So it's seemingly one guy, yeah, but this person has they're they're they're hooked up, they're connected, they know, they have ways to gather, you know, Like I think that's the interesting thing is just on the other side, right, Like if a lobbyist comes and it's like saying, oh, you know, we'd love to max out

to your campaign and things like that. You know that's in this very narrow example, and you start doing some ship that's going, you know, counter to what the people who gave you a check did, then you might get a someone might knock knock and pull up and say, hey, what's going on? You know? I thought we were cool that's strange because I mean, I'd hate to I'd hate

for someone to primary you before your next election. That would just be awful, you know, because we you know, there's there's I heard there's a scandal with your son in law or something I just heard from because I used Lexus Nexus illegally, but I just saw some ship on there that I thought probably wouldn't be great if it came out anyway, So let us know about the next you know, the next vote that you have coming up, because there are ways to you know, get politicians who

aren't in line with the aims of an industry like out like and so that's why you see a lot of especially politicians who are like have a backbone and they're just like, yo, dude, I'm I can't be bought. I'll fucking vote against your ass every time. Like no, I'm here to actually do a service for people. They don't last a lot of the time unless they're in a really insulated district because outside money, this is the

other thing where lobbying comes in. There's dark money, there's super PACs and ship like that that now suddenly have all these ads popping up. You got robo calls, talking about you all this other stuff that starts destabilizing your district and your incumbency. So damn those are all kinds of you know, that's what I'm saying that So you know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's like, hey, I heard I'm just saying I just heard it, right, Like, hey,

they're saying. Look, that's what they're saying. That's not what I'm saying. That's there, that's just out there. I mean, I'm saying the streets is watching. I'm like, I'm just saying for you, homie, like if you're trying to still be good, it's like I wouldn't do what you're doing right now. I wouldn't. I'm not saying, but hey man, you can do whatever the funk you want. Man, that's all good man, because we all got to meet our maker at some point. But yeah, go ahead. You're free.

You're free to do what you want. And I mean it's like an exaggerated version, but that's how it works, you know. Like just when I would do like more sort of outside influence kind of things, you start thinking of like the op research you can do and looking into what you can find out if there are things to talk about if there's a like a narrative you can create to start painting somebody as an unfit leader, legislator, etcetera, and not like and that's just one of the many

tools like at People's disposal. I mean, there were even times where you can straight up set politicians up, um like you know, like let's say they're gonna go speak out of high school and you start going, okay, you can see their calendar and said, okay, this is their campaign. They're about to go to this high school. Let me go find out to see if I know anybody who

knows somebody who goes to the high school. And then maybe give them a camera, maybe give them some questions, maybe give them tell them to tell other kids about some things they can ask this politician because there's gonna be cameras around, and put them on the spot right there in a place they didn't think someone was gonna pop up on them and get them on camera saying

some dumb ship. And then you take that sound people that you know that work in the newspaper, work in the local news, and you say, yo, I need you to run this ship because I can't believe they just said that ship out loud, I don't think this person can be it's fit for office, and then boom, you've been got. So it's there's, it's, it's it's there's so much. Yeah, that's coal is ice, and what's called about it is

how normal it is. Yeah. And I think that's where I I started to get sour a little bit on it because I was like, damn, it's so fucking cynical. Um. But that's also meat. Like you know, going in two thousand and eight, two thousand nine, you know, Barack Obama, change and all this ship and thinking like, oh, yeah, it's probably it's different, or like it's something maybe moving in in the right direction that will look after working

people and the marginalized. And you're like, all the people that have the most face time with these decision makers represent industries. They industries that are predicated on making sure people aren't liberated. So you you ain't gonna get to the table, no, no. And I think that's the other I think that's really the funked up part about lobbying is that it's just created this insulated world where only the biggest money is truly going to have this guy.

That's why the fucking focus of Congress is so fucked up half the time, like where they're going to spend months talking about, well, we're doing debit card fees. That's because these fucking lobbyists have too much access telling you that's the be all, end all, when we're not looking at real ship like decriminalizing drugs or other things like things that it can end yeah, cultural benefit. So you

know it's it. It factors into so many of the ills and you know, the suboptimal operation of our government because there's too many distractions that can be injected through lobby Okay, wow, so you gave us a lot here. So again we're back in the jew I'm learning all this stuff. We're back in the juvie. It's like, Okay, you can talk somebody into anything. Um, you got a whole network of people outside of this room. So when you say, hey, that's what I'm gonna do, you can

deliver this. Um. And you also got the balls with balls whatever guts, let's not, let's not let's be gender neutral here. You got you got the guts in here that got not you know what I'm saying to like, if you gotta if you gotta pull triggers. If you gotta make a call, you know what I'm saying, if you got to run the mission on somebody to be like, this fool is not putting their work. We need to bust this discipline. And because this is what this is what I need from you. And I'm not scared of you.

You know, if you're down to do that, Okay, if you got if you got the stomach to do it, then you'd probably be you could probably do this job my lap. Okay, go ahead. Oh no. Just the other thing is though, but the but more than that, these lobbyists don't have agency though, you know what I mean. They have the agency to maneuver how they have to because because at the end of the day, they answer to someone else. Answers to stimie, yeah, remi he answers

to the natural gas company, conglomerate. You're gonna answer to somebody. Yeah. So that's where So that's really where it starts, is that it's like the Koch brothers. They're like, you know, if they tell you to run your ship, then it is what it is because they have the resources and they can get you. And so that's really how the lobbyist is more like the you're just the your foot soldier who you can trust thing. Yeah, yeah, but but you know they're gonna get it done. But you know

they're gonna get it done. But and they're not gonna they're gonna stick to the script and they're not gonna start improving with it and fucking shut up. But at the end of the day, you know they're going to deliver on what you need, because that's really how it ends up. At the end of the day, the lobbyists will be summoned by the client to say, what is happening This person voted this way, this, this bill is getting too much? What is happening out there? What are

y'all doing out there? Damn? And then so you gotta dry down to Watts and figure out what the hell happening down at Watts right exactly. And if you gotta unfortunately, do whatever the funk you gotta do and maybe not tell them how you did it, then yeah, maybe that happens, but yeah, you're your you will your career will be

short if you don't deliver on those things. So that's why it can get really murky or other people get caught being really sloppy with it because they'll just do ship like bribe people and then it's like that and and that's sort of the art of it is because even though everyone knows sort of what the deal is like that obviously it's like there's money, there's it's all transactional that you never wanted to arrive to the point of like just a straight bribe because there's like rules

to ship, and so ship blow up in your face real quick. So it's almost like you can never do it like that. It may seem like the most efficient way it's just maybe threatened somebody and then put a pipe bag of cash in front of him. But that's the art to it is that it's about creating all this Yeah, and you start creating all these externals like damn, somebody called CPS, aren't you? Oh yeah, dog get coming

to get you out chill. Yeah, like you know, like like but you know what I mean, like how you might you know, some grimy ship you might handle with. I don't know, neighbors are weird, I don't know whatever the fuck you know. All I'm saying is there are ways to ship. Happened that isn't coming from you, but it's coming from you. Damn, Miles, that's a cold piece. And I see why. You was like, I think I'll start podcasting, yeah, just like comedy better. Like I was just, yeah,

it's more fun to be funny. Yeah. Because I started out as an organizer, Yeah, because I liked talking to people. I liked just you know, I could go to a college campus and start being like, Okay, let me talk to MITCHA, let me talk to like the Black student Union, let me talk to this group of kids, let me

talk to the group of whatever it is. Because the first campaign I worked on was one for like renewable energy, and I was doing a lot of like campus organizing for this, like ballot proposition in California to try and get the energy mix like way super high, like and be like sort of first in the nation with renewables. And it was fun and I really like doing that.

I liked talking to people, like educating people. I like to see that moment where like ship clicks and they're like right, if we do this, like this helps the environment, it is good for jobs, and like wow, the way we make energy is so inefficient, like this is great, Like I'm I'm motivated, and so I really liked doing that. I really like speaking to people and and sort of

being able to influence them like that. So yeah, after this um this campaign with this ballot initiative, like a political strategy firm reached out through like other people that I knew in politics and offered me a job to

work at this political strategy lobbying firm. And at that point I was like, this is this could be dope, Like you know, this is uh, this is an opportunity I wouldn't get otherwise, Like I had no job prospects because I graduated college in two thousand seven, and I felt like, oh, this is something I can do and apply like my knowledge of history and like, you know,

my desire to for a more equitable future. Like oh ship, I didn't even I always thought I would do comedy and stuff, but this might offer me an opportunity to do something really worthwhile. And then I, you know, quickly realized like I'm on the side of the I'm on the dark side. Okay, So I guess lastly would be like all right, so you got in on the organizing side, which you know, especially like with a lot of the young homies that I'm interfacing in like that part still

brings them life. It feels encouraging, It feels like you're doing something, and you know, I can even think about the times that like, you know, you feel like when you it doesn't you're not doing anything if you're not at the table, Like it feels like that sometimes, you know. But you know, now coming out the other end of that, I know, I know that's not necessarily how it works. I understand, you know, stakeholders and stuff like that. Like I get it now, but it took a few years too.

Took a lot of years to get to that place. What would you say to some young sort of like excited you know, future activists, Like again, we're still in this juvenile all year, you know what I'm saying. That's like, like, what would you say to that kid as far as like because again, some of the one one of the main purposes of the show is like I want to on board kids like me and you that look just like me and you into politics, you know what I'm saying,

So like, what would you say to them? Yeah, organize your block. You know, if you look, there's gonna be the companies that spend so much money bombarding people with ads and ship like that, and that works. You know, we've seen that that works. That misinformation and you know, propaganda for lack of a better work that it works. Um, And but there's also something to being able to mobilize your community and get your community intact and in touch

with what's at stake. So yeah, while maybe running for office is really glamorous, I think if you could say, if I told if I just went around and made three calls, I could get a hundred of my neighbors to show up somewhere. Damn. Yeah, that's real power. That's real. That's real power. Because I'll tell you this, lobbyists pay for that kind of ship. They pay. That's that's why they call lobbyists pay for that kind of ship. Listen,

that's what I'm saying. Look here, you hear that little how many like that that out you got on your block, that shot call it level you got on your block where you could make a call, get forty five fifty heads onto the block right now. Lobbyists pay for that for that, That's what And that's what happened with Obamacare, you know, the Affordable Care Act. We had all this

astroturfing going on, which means astroturfing is fake grassroots. It's fake it in grassroots the ship that we're I'm trying, we're talking about that, we're trying to you know, get people on to really organize, like your neighborhood or you're a group of people your you know, your community. That's grassroots. When they have these people showing up in costumes looking like in seventeen seventy six and ship with their gags

and flags, and that's bullshit. That's paid that's paid less because that and you talk to the people that are there, they don't know why they're there. They oh, man, it's all cap okay exactly. But you see some ship where and again, this is what happened last summer. You saw even organically, people just kind of knew, all, no, this is this isn't some ship. I'm just gonna stand idly by for I'm gonna get out in the streets. And

that's that. God. People shook it to see that people were organized, even organically, that they could just in numbers show up in physical space to say we don't agree with this or we don't like this. It's a it's a lot different when you just get emails or calls. You can ignore that ship. You see, you see bodies in physical space. It's a whole other thing. And so

that's why I give it up to organizers. That ship is so hard and in the most you know, high stakes situations, organizers have come through to organize people to properly know them about their own voting situations or to know about like even if, for example, getting Jackie Lacey's ass out as d A, a lot of people didn't know because they go, what's this a black woman and she's a Democrat, and we all, yeah, look like no, she's protecting the fucking cops. She does. But the problem

is we don't connect enough people with the outrage. So if people and and you know a lot of people suddenly were like because the last summer, they're like, hmm right there, let me look into it. Yeah, how do cops keep getting away with this? Oh? Because the city won't prosecute because they have a relationship with p D. And that's how it works. But when people figured it out now suddenly're like, oh, no, no, no, we don't

need this. She gotta go. Yeah. So that's that's real power, is like connecting people to their own power because too many of us are apathetic or just feel so fucking disillusioned and powerless over the thing. And I get it because you will look out there and you say, how the fuck do we not have any kind of proper you know, let's say, even gun legislations where we're just trying to say, let's keep kids safe at schools. Just

that's simple, that's simple. But somehow these politicians are like, well, they're starting to about they don't know about that ship. But that's because the lobbyists got to them and they know that if they don't, the n r A can damn sure get a bunch of people to leave angry voicemails and ship like that. And that's that's really one of the ways that they're just scared. They're scared of

people showing up. So if you can get people to show up, or if you can at least get people to get on the same page if you that's fucking that's real power. And at the end of the day, even if you're getting violated by the police or the fucking city or what things like that, if your network is that tight, you can help each other out. There's ways to figure there's ways to actually support your community because everyone is so networked and knows, you know, sort

of what's at stake. So I I honestly think, you know, if you can, if you have the ability to get your community together and get them in touch with the things that are actually really important to your future, and get them to understand that, like going places and and and supporting each other and and protesting and things like that,

that's that that's real fucking power. And that's unfortunately, that's why you see, especially conservatives, they always accuse uh, you know, people of color or whatever, or anyone who's out there, progressives, leftists who've come out to support a cause. They say, oh, they're paid. They're paid. They're paid because that's what they do. And the left does it too. The Democrats will do it too here and there. But not enough people can get connected with the outrage for them to show up

for healthcare. I mean, now, with all the propaganda and misinformation, they are definitely are showing up, but that's for like a whole other funked up reason that they're not even really sure of. But to connect people to that sort of sense of purpose, that's again, that's the real power. And again, and you know what, you might be one of those people who sells your community out because someone said, hey, if you can get people here, I'll give you sixty dollars.

You know, but it is money, I guess. But yeah, wow, Miles, I think this might be shaping up as one of the most important episodes we've done. I appreciate you so much for taking his time. Oh yeah, anytime, anytime. I mean I haven't even barely scratched the surface. Dark Dark Money a whole other episode. That's a whole other episode. We okay, we're gonna do dark Money. Damn yeh come back because it's really fucked up again, you know, we do.

You hear the term lobbyists, and it's a really nebulous term, like it can mean so many things, but essentially it's about groups that try to exert influence on decision makers and it happens in many different ways. But to know that when we're trying to actually further bills and things like that, you look at even people like Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema who are in the Senate right now, who are holding a lot of even just the most basic ship like voting bills back. Yeah, there. The reason

they're not budging is because someone's in their ear. No one is knowing. They don't have a real ideological argument against although they'll try and articulate one, but it's that's not what's going on. It's that there is just a complex network of influencers that work on, you know, the realities of these politicians that keep them sort of in line.

And it was the same thing you heard. I don't know if you saw those leaked um I think it's ex on mobile calls that came out from the BBC or that one that one lobbyist straight up says, yeah, oh yeah, we work with Joe Manchin all the time, and like, yeah, we know what time it is, Like that's how it works. He just said it out loud like that, that's our dude. Yeah yeah, oh yeah, we love them. Yeah, we work with a great guy, great guy. Yeah yeah, we're working on something else with them right now.

It's like, that's that's how it all. It all comes together. And I think if people knew that it wasn't just like these tired ass politicians making decisions and that that there's people just kind of fucking pushing them around until them like a better deliciou, it would be a lot easier to figure out that, like, oh, we actually need a lot of reform, especially as it relates to a campaign finance and things like that, because it's not a

level playing field. Facts. I'm blown away, bro, I'm blown away. Thank you again, Miles, Thank you for having me yo show tow to uh the way they can find us and all that good Miles of Gray Twitter, Instagram, Go to check out the Daily Zeitgeist. That's a daily politics news culture, you know, comedy show I do every day. Uh. And if you and if you need something not so heavy,

check and you like ninety day Fiance. I got a ninety day fiance podcast called four D Fiance where we're smoking on that TLC pack and it's it's a good old time. I gotta, I gotta. I got a big dark money pack over here. Smoke on? Did we can smoke on? All right? Well man, Thank you again. Appreciate you, y'all. This mug was recorded and edited by me Propaganda right here in East low'st Boil Heights, Los Angeles. Y'all can follow me at prop hip Hop on all the socials.

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