Naftali Bennett and Michael Oren: Israel and Iran at War

From the Free Press, this is Honestly, and I'm Barry Weiss. In the early hours of Friday morning, Israel pulled off a historic strike against Iran. Moments ago, Israel launched Operation Rising Lion. a targeted military operation to roll back the Iranian threat to Israel's very survival. This operation will continue for as many days as it takes to remove this threat. That strike is still unfolding.

As I record these lines on Friday, New York time, Iran is reporting a massive explosion in Isfahan, a major city in the center of the country. It's also a province that's home to several nuclear facilities. We are hearing tonight from Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who confirmed these strikes took place with dozens of Israeli jets in the skies over Iran.

The prime minister saying that the Natanz nuclear facility, this is the main enrichment site for Iran's nuclear program, was targeted in these strikes along with a number of other locations. In Israel, where Shabbat has just begun. The government has ordered all synagogues in the country to shut down and for citizens to remain close to their safe rooms and bomb shelters as the country girds for a retaliatory strike.

It is hard to overstate the magnitude of this operation. Israel, in one fell swoop, has taken out Iran's military leadership. and Hussein Salamin, the head of Iran's Revolutionary Guard. It has taken out many of its top nuclear scientists. The former head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran and top nuclear scientist. It has hit nuclear facilities across the country, including ones that are buried deep underground. And these strikes are still ongoing.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed to do whatever it takes in order to prevent a nuclear Holocaust. Meantime, the Iranian military's Twitter account is saying our response will be lethal. The supreme leader of that country is tweeting, the Zionist regime has prepared for itself a bitter, painful fate, which it will definitely see.

And Donald Trump is using this as an opening to push Iran to enter into a nuclear deal. This is a historic juncture, not just for the state of Israel, not just for the Middle East, but for the world. Because if Iran were to get a nuclear weapon, something that they are on the cusp of doing, it would set off a nuclear arms race across the Middle East. So last night...

Just as the news of these attacks broke, I sat down with former Israeli ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren and former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett to discuss all of it. The strikes. what they accomplished, how Israel defied conventional wisdom and seemed to pull off the impossible, what we can expect in the days ahead, and perhaps most importantly to many of our listeners, whether or not America...

is supporting Israel and its efforts. This is an unbelievably fast-moving story. It is 150. In the afternoon, New York time on Friday as I record this, and I'm getting messages from my phone that Israelis are being ordered to shelter. Many people believe that an attack is imminent.

But regardless of what unfolds over the coming hours, this conversation will ground you. It will ground you in the facts, and it will ground you, most importantly, perhaps, in the history. To really understand what's going on, this is a conversation you are going to want to hear. Stay with us. Hey everybody.

I am in Chicago right now. It is 9.20 p.m. here. I am with Michael Oren calling in from Israel. Michael, what time is it there? 5.30 a.m. 5.30 a.m. I don't think he has slept a wink. Really, really, really thrilled to have some time with you right now, Michael, and thank you for making the time. We closed a story at about... 6 p.m. I believe the headline of the story was, is Israel about to attack Iran or is Israel about to strike Iran's nuclear facilities? And about two hours later.

That is exactly what has happened. So for the people who have just seen the broad headline, Michael, explain to us what has happened and what we know about the beginnings of this strike. What do we know so far? Well, first of all, always a pleasure and honor to be with you, Barry. You know, we live streamed October 7th.

223, if you remember, and here we are again at another historic juncture, truly historic juncture, where everything, everything hangs in the barrel and the entire Middle East stands on the brink of an historic and maybe thorough, irreversible transformation. Yes, and our article came out several hours before Israel launched the strike, and much of the...

The social media I've received is accrediting us with having foreknowledge of the attack. Somehow we were privy to the decision by having raised the question. We weren't. I'll say that unequivocally. But this is what happened. about several hours or hours ago.

Every citizen of the state of Israel received an unprecedented message on our cell phones. We're used to being awakened at various hours of the night by Houthi missiles fired usually at central Israel. But tonight there was a very faint siren followed by a...

a buzzing on our cell phones, an announcement by the home front commander, the IDF, that we were to proceed immediately to our safe rooms or the nearest shelters, either a neighborhood shelter or even under a staircase. And the minute that happened, I turned to my wife, Tammy.

I said, okay, we've just attacked Iran. Never experienced anything like this. Ran in front of the TV. And, of course, we have attacked Iran. This attack, first of all, just in purely military terms, is utterly, utterly unprecedented. multifaceted, multi-targeted. It involves not just hundreds of Israeli warplanes, perhaps other capabilities. Israel has other capabilities other than warplanes. We have submarines. We have ballistic capabilities that I can't describe in too much detail.

And we have forces on the ground, whether special forces, that's not been clear, but also agents of the Mossad and other Israeli branches of the security system who have taken out. four leaders of the Iranian regime, including Hossein Salome, the head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards, the IRGC, who just yesterday pledged to destroy the state of Israel, targeted.

assassinations also of scientists who are targeting not just the leadership but the knowledge behind the Iranian nuclear program. And what we're not seeing, we see a lot of pictures of apartment houses on fire. And it's interesting that the hits on these products are very, very accurate. It's not the whole apartment building on fire. It's only certain apartments. But what we're not seeing is the damage being done to Iran's missile capability, its arsenals, its launchers, its air defense.

radars, other services, you know, they have Russian S-300 systems. And what we're really not seeing is what's being done underground. Iran has heavily fortified, deeply embedded nuclear facilities at Fordow. at Natanz and other sites, which contain thousands and thousands of centrifuges that have recently been enriching uranium.

to near fissile levels, 60%. That's a short distance between 60% and 90%. That's weapons grade. And Israel has now learned that Iran has not only amassed enough nuclear...

fissile material to make between nine and ten nuclear weapons, but has also learned that Iran is making steps to weaponize this rich uranium. Michael, why now? The knock against, there are many criticisms of Benjamin Netanyahu, but the knock against him from the right is that he's, as Obama put it once, and you put this in your piece, he's chicken shit.

has been saying and Israel has been saying for more than two decades, Iran is on the cusp of nuclear weapons. We cannot live with a nuclear on Iran is on the cusp of nuclear weapons. We cannot live with a nuclear on. This is what you've heard over and over again for many, many years. What finally caused Israel to take this action, as far as you know? Well, to the degree that I know Netanyahu, and I worked with him for about a decade, this is the moment for which he was born.

This is the moment in which he saves the Jewish state, in which he preserves Jewish history. And that's the way he looks at it. And that the Iranian situation, their ability to make a nuclear weapon. and very, very quickly. combined with Iran's plans that appeared in certain sections of the Israeli press just recently, that the Israeli intelligence had learned of Iranian plans to launch a multi-front attack against Israel, including across the Egyptian and Jordanian borders.

There's no confirmation to this. But the situation had become immediately existential. That is, not existential down the road, but immediately existential. And that basically there was no choice. It's very interesting. One of the points that's been overlooked in the Israeli press and the American press as well, that this coming Monday, Netanyahu is actually celebrating the wedding of his son of Nair.

So you'd say to yourself, okay, if this man is doing this for political reasons only to preserve his coalition, why would he do this in the middle of the wedding of his son? The answer has to be there has to be deeper, deeper reasons why Israel is doing this.

Michael, the open question always was, and the consensus really, and you'll tell me if this is wrong, was that Israel could not carry out an operation, again, a successful, comprehensive... operation against Iran's nuclear facilities without American support. It appears that America

is not involved in this strike. We don't know, I guess. Rubio put out a statement. I just want to read it. It's sort of a strange statement. Tonight, Israel took unilateral action against Iran. We are not involved in strikes against Iran, and our top priority is protecting American forces. the region. Israel advised us that they believe this action is necessary for its self-defense

President Trump and this administration have taken all necessary steps to protect our forces and remain in close contact with our regional partners. Let me be clear, Iran should not target US interests or personnel. What he is not saying is Israel is doing... a very difficult, very potentially dangerous thing on behalf of a world that cannot live with a nuclear-armed Iran and then the inevitable.

nuclear arms race it would set off in the Middle East. This is an extraordinarily restrained statement. What do you make of it and what do we know so far about the U.S. involvement or not in this strike? Yeah, more to the point, he's not saying the United States will help defend Israel.

against the wave of ballistic missiles, which we are expected to receive. Could be in the next minute, could be in the coming hours. But now we've been warned several times by the home front that the Iranian reaction is...

was to be massive. And it was Steve Witkoff, and I quote him in the article, who told a group of select Republican senators this week and also told a gala in New York, a pro-Israel gala, that if Israel attacks Iran, that the Iranian response is liable to be massive, prohibitive, and on a scale not less threatening to Israel than Iranian nuclearization.

That's going pretty far in that statement. I've got to agree. So, yeah, there's a lot of speculation here to the degree to which the United States was involved, the way it was kept abreast. But if you look at Rubio's statement, you look at Whitcoff's statement.

You're hard-pressed to feel that the United States gave actually green light at this. You'd have to develop a sort of a far-reaching, sort of almost conspiracy theory saying that the entire negotiations that the administration was conducting with Iran, particularly perhaps... almost from the inception of the second Trump administration. It was all ruse. It was all pulling the wool over the Iranians' eyes and rendering them complacent. And in fact, they sped up.

the Iranian rich enrichment. They increased their stockpile of 60% enriched uranium by 30%. You don't do that if you feel that there's a serious military threat confronting you. I think the judgment's still out, and I think we're going to know. literally in the next few minutes or the next few hours, whether the United States forces in the Middle East, particularly the naval forces, are going to intercept Iranian ballistic missiles fired at Israel as they did in October and April of last year.

when Iran fired a total of some 700 ballistic missiles at Israel.

Israel, as you write about in your piece, attacked the nuclear programs of two other countries before this, Iraq's in 1981, Syria in 2007. And both of those attacks effectively ended those nations' nuclear programs. about Iran's is that, as you mentioned a little bit earlier, Michael, it was just so large and so deeply underground that it would sort of be impossible to do so. Will this be the end of the Iranians' nuclear program?

It's a pressing question. And let's point out the differences. First of all, in 1981 and 2007, in both cases, Israel operated without the permission of the United States. In fact, Ronald Reagan, 1981, responded by holding up the delivery of warplanes to Israel, kind of an arms boycott. In both cases, those operations were preceded by prognostications. that the the syrians and the iraqis would then further embed

their nuclear programs and proceed to make nuclear weapons. In both cases, those predictions proved to be false. To this day, there's no Syrian nuclear weapon. There's no Iraqi nuclear weapon. So if you have to adduce exhibit A and B of history, that by moving against... Iranian nuclear facilities today, the chances are that Iran will not come back and further embed its nuclear program and not proceed to make a nuclear weapon. Having said all that,

Israel's capabilities are far greater than they were in 1981 and 2007. And Israel has acquired, as I said earlier, submarine capabilities, ballistic capabilities, certainly intelligence capabilities, the degree to which Israeli intelligence has... penetrated Iran at every possible level. Look, they knew, we knew, where the head of the IRGC was sleeping that night. They knew where the nuclear scientists had their offices in Tehran.

Apparently, we knew where the arsenals of the long-range missiles are located. And I would not be surprised that right at this moment, there are underground explosions in Fardau and in Nantans, which you haven't seen yet, which will render those areas a nuclear toxic environment and an acceptable maybe for...

generations. The big question, looking long range, is not just whether Israel has the capability to take out Iran's nuclear programs, facilities. And just parenthetically, we proved in eliminating Hassan Nasrallah. the head of Hezbollah in Lebanon, who was hiding beneath 60 feet of concrete by using successive sorties.

of f-15s and f-35s he's dropping a synchronized payload of 2 000 pound bombs and penetrated that 60 feet and killed Nasrallah, that Israel can, even with small planes, can penetrate very deeply embedded programs. We have to assume that these facilities also have air shafts and have access points as well. So the big question looking forward, Barry, is not whether Israel can take out Iran's nuclear facilities, is whether this operation will bring down the Iranian regime.

And I've been involved in the Iranian nuclear issue for 20 years now. And I must tell you, I'm quite moved tonight. I look at it as a personal milestone and as an historian looking back to 1979. the day that Iran came under the rule of the Islamic Republic and declared its intention to wipe this country off the map. This is a moment we've waited for, not just for 20 years, but for 46 years.

And that in itself is extraordinary. Will it change? And most recently, the debate has been whether an Iranian Israeli kinetic action against Iran would strengthen the regime by forcing Iranians to rally around the regime. or what was so weak in the regime, that it would fall. My gut feeling tonight goes with the latter. Michael, you and I have known each other since I'm 19 years old. We have... Since I was 19.

I was with you a few months. I talked to you on October 7th, but then I was with you on the ground and going to some of the kibbutzim in the months just after I think I was there with you in January. Israel is... 20 months in October, it will be two years into a war that has been devastating, exhausting. There is still, as we know, more than 50 hostages, dead and alive, being held by Hamas in Gaza.

Like, what is the feeling among Israelis tonight? I'm sure your signal on your WhatsApp has been blowing up all night. Is it a feeling of dread? Is it a feeling of... Finally, this is something that has been sort of anticipated for a long time. What is the feeling? At the end of your piece that we published around six tonight, you talked about how Israelis were gathering water and cans of food.

and sort of stalking their bomb shelters. Amazingly, they were in those bomb shelters not two hours later. Tell us a little bit about the feeling among ordinary Israelis to the extent that you can say that. Also, you as a historian, try and put this for me in a little bit.

of a more sweeping historical context. Okay, so let's begin on the personal level. I've had a number of phone calls tonight with some people we know, our common friends. Many of them were... I would say profoundly opposed to Benjamin Netanyahu and inclined to see any action against Iran as Netanyahu's attempt to divert attention. from his domestic political woes, whether it's his court cases for bribery and fraud, his refusal to enlist ultra-Orthodox Jews in the Israeli military.

his refusal to agree to a hostage-for-cease-fire deal with Hamas. And this was all going to be sort of a distraction. And that Israel lacked legitimacy now after that 20 years of war, our international isolation at a time when... Britain, Australia, New Zealand, some of our closest allies are sanctioning Israel and sanctioning Israeli leaders for our actions in Gaza. We wouldn't have the international legitimacy.

My feeling having had conversations over the last several hours is that's all changed. There's a tremendous rallying around. Israel, there's a rallying around this decision around the IDF. We have hundreds, perhaps thousands of fighters, pilots and others in the air right now on the sea, in the ground.

who are risking their lives to defend this country. And at such time, you don't question the decision to send them into harm's way. Everyone rallies around it. And I think that it's been a very stark and... palpable change over the last couple of hours. Historically speaking, you know, some time ago I wrote a book about the Six-Day War. It was called Six Days of War, June 1967, The Making of the Modern Middle East. Well, there's a new book to be written.

The book is The Middle East War of 2023-2025 and the Utter Transformation of the Middle East. What could happen as a result tonight? We were facing a situation where... There might have been a new Iranian nuclear deal similar to the JCPOA of 2015. As results of that deal, sanctions would have been lifted on Iran. Iran would have been enriched. And with that money, Iran would once again have extended its hegemony over Syria.

It would rebuild Hezbollah, rebuild Hamas, and very quickly we'd find ourselves in a situation very similar to that existed on the eve of October 7th, 2023. Instead, we have a situation where Iran will be cowered. will be defanged and Syria will be independent and Syria could possibly make peace with Israel, join the Abraham Accords and their discussions that end right now. Lebanon. Free of Hezbollah would regain its sovereignty and Lebanon could make peace with Israel. Saudi Arabia would make.

peace with Israel. And the Middle East that could emerge from this, and I don't want to be Pollyannish, really, the Middle East that could be unrecognizable from the Middle East we have known during our lifetimes, Barry.

Michael, one of the questions that a lot of people are asking is... Is Israel able to withstand the Iranian response that's going to come? The spokesman or a spokesman for Iran's military said retaliation, attack is definite, God willing. who knows exactly what that will look like. This seems like something that is bigger than the Iron Dome's capabilities. What do you know about what...

the retaliation might look like. Having been an ambassador, I'm certain that you have much more information than many of the pundits kind of going off on X right now speculating. What are Israelis girding for? What are they expecting? And can Israel withstand the response?

Okay, there's the ballistic response. We're talking about somewhere in the order of 2,000 ballistic missiles of medium range, long range. Israel would fall in both categories of medium and long range. Some of them can pack a warhead of about 2,000 pounds of explosives. enough not just to take down this house, but to take down much of this neighborhood, each of those. I'll give you an example. The bus bombs on the second intifada were about 10 pounds.

of explosives this is 2 000 pounds okay and that those ripped the buses to shreds um A house was taken down in the next street from me by a Kassam rockets during the war, this recent war. It took down four stories of a house that had 15 pounds of explosives in it. So it gives you an idea of just how powerful that could be. Opposite that or standing in the way of that is the world's most advanced multi-tiered.

um air defense system that includes iron dome but iron dome is really effective here it's it's for short-range rockets and that have a a fixed trajectory a rocket that goes up and down and you know Iron Dawn hits it here. We're talking about ballistic missiles that are guided by a joystick, the cruise missiles. And for that, we have another system called David's Sling.

developed with the United States, which has proven effective in taking down middle-range rockets. And then we have two systems also developed in conjunction with the United States, Arrow 2 and Arrow 3. Arrow 2 is suborbital. Arrow 3 is orbital. Some of these rockets go into outer space and then come down again. We hit them in outer space. And the big danger so far, this is what the Hooties have been firing at us recently, have been taken down by Arrow 2 and Arrow 3.

the big danger is debris falling down from the sky. There's a lot of debris, and it falls down on Israel, it falls down on the West Bank, it falls down on Jordan. In addition, there's the United States. And the United States has three anti-missile systems, the THAAD system, the Aegis system, and the Patriot system. Many of them are seaborne. They have proven to have differing degrees of efficacy.

But they are there. And in those previous two attempts of Iran to pummel us with ballistic missiles in April and October 2024, the United States actually proved... very effective in taking down numbers of these rockets that were fired at us. Only one rocket actually hit Israel and caused a serious injury among a Bedouin girl. One of them actually hit in the neighborhood of...

My ex-sister-in-law struck an oil shed near her but didn't explode. Seriously, they fired like 700 of these rockets at us and didn't cause serious damage. That does not mean they can't do it this time. And none of these systems are foolproof. None of them. Iron Dome is 92% to 95% foolproof. But if you're firing 200 rockets at you, you know, some are going to get through. And that is why the home front keeps on telling us to stay in our rooms tonight.

And they keep on warning that the response from Iran is liable to be quite substantive indeed. Michael, I want to ask you one more question, and then I want to...

Go to Naftali Bennett for a few questions, then ideally come back to you. And I'm so grateful to you for your time. There's a meme that's developing on, let's just say half. I don't know if it's half, but parts of the MAGA coalition. people inside government and voices outside of government who basically make the argument that America has nothing to do with Iran. Iran doesn't pose a threat.

period, some say. And then the softer version of that argument is Iran doesn't pose a threat to America. And, you know, the idea of... Like this is Israel's war. It has nothing to do with the West and certainly nothing to do with America. I'd love for you to address that because that's something that is like a very, very dominant.

strain of argument that you're hearing right now on the internet. And I would say the flip side of that argument is that there's this dichotomy, that if the United States doesn't reach a diplomatic solution with Iran, the only alternative is war.

which is a false dichotomy because Iran has actually zero ability to make war against the United States. It does not have an air force. There was a report tonight that Israeli planes down six Iranian airplanes that I wouldn't expect anything different. The Iranian airplanes are from 1979.

And if you watch the Iranian day parades in Tehran, you never see large tank formations rolling down the streets of Tehran because they don't have large tank formations. Israel, they can cause mischief. They can launch terrorist attacks, and they do that. even without the United States attacking Iran or Israel attacking Iran. But beyond that, Iran does not pose either a serious tactical threat, certainly not a strategic threat to the United States.

As to the MAGA claim that Iran is irrelevant to the United States, impose any threat to the United States, well, you know, having survived an Iranian assassination attempt in downtown Washington, by the way, and having Iranian attempts to... assassinate other American leaders, from John Bolton to the president of the United States himself. That's a curious argument to make. Iran is the world's largest state sponsor of terror.

And that terror branches are throughout South America, along America's borders. They penetrate America through the drug trade. The drug trade is very, very deep in America through Hezbollah and Al-Quds and the drug space. That drug trade finances terror. They are in cahoots with the Mexican cartels. In any way you look, you're going to see Iranian threats to the United States.

But speaking sort of geopolitically, America's refusal to stand up to Iran, to stand by its allies in the Middle East who are threatened by Iran, has reverberations throughout the entire world. Chinese are going to draw conclusions from that. The Russians perhaps have already drawn conclusions for that. Putin has repeatedly snubbed Trump's ability to mediate a ceasefire in the Ukrainian war.

There is no such thing as a theater in the world which is isolated from other theaters. Everything is interlocked and interrelated. And if the United States stands by Israel, four square in this operation. then America's ability, America's security will be greatly enhanced and America's adversaries in the world will internalize unequivocally.

America's firmness and steadfastness. America faces four adversaries in the world, China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Three of them have nuclear weapons. Why would anybody, anybody in the United States? I want to see the fourth one get nuclear power.

Michael Oren, I know it's really, really early there. I know you haven't slept at all. I'm so grateful for your piece. So grateful for you making the time. I want to say goodbye to you and bring in and hopefully come back to you. I'm sure we're going to be working on another piece. today, but maybe go get some coffee ahead of that. And I want to thank you so much, Michael. One word about Naftali Bennett. He deserves a lot of credit because he's been calling for this for a long time.

Well, for those who don't know who Naftali Bennett is, Naftali Bennett was the prime minister of the state of Israel from 2021 to 2022. And we are going to say goodbye briefly to Michael Oren, who is the author. of many important works of history about Israel in the Middle East. I was his intern when I was 20 years old, his biggest claim to fame, and of course was ambassador.

to America during the Obama administration. Michael, thank you so much. And let's bring on Naftali. Hi, Naftali. Good morning. Hi, Barry.

Hi, thank you so much for your patience and thank you so, so much for joining me. I want to start by just asking where you're calling in from and if you're safe. Yeah, yeah, we're all safe. Israelis are safe right now. There were sirens across the country and everyone's near their shelters. So we're good.

Okay, so I was just talking to Michael Oren, the historian and former ambassador, and he said, as I was introducing you, he said, Naftali Bennett deserves a lot of credit. He's been calling for this for a long time. Give us a little bit of context to that statement.

Yeah, about seven or eight years ago, I defined Iran as the head of the terror octopus in the entire Middle East. We had been fighting individual proxies. for example, Hamas and Hezbollah, etc. But missing the big picture is that there's one epicenter that's sending the money, sending the arms, training all these tentacles.

And that's Tehran, that's Iran. And I felt that we foolishly are fighting the tactical battles instead of hitting the octopus on its head. I'm pleased that we're doing it right now. We have no other choice because Iran is really on the cusp of acquiring a bunch of bombs, roughly 10 bombs. They have enough enriched uranium for that. But it's a long time we did this and we're looking at tough days ahead. But we have to do this. The world will be safer.

Israel will be safer. Millions of people's lives will be saved by what's happening now. Naftali, one of the things that... Israel has been saying for a very, very long time with greater and greater passion. But the message has been the same, which is Iran is on the cusp of getting nuclear weapons. And they've been saying that. for many many years why tonight what what like what series of events as far as you understand occurred for israel to take action tonight

It's a combination of the urgent need and the unique opportunity. The urgent need is that for years they've been enriching uranium, but they've never achieved such. tremendous progress of enough enriched uranium for 10 bombs and making big steps towards building the bomb itself, the detonator, which they hadn't in the past.

But there's also a unique opportunity that we never had before, which is all but neutralized Iran because its two main arms, its two main defense arms, which are Hezbollah and Hamas are... dramatically diminished, so they can't really retaliate in a meaningful way. And their air defenses have been neutralized over the past year. And I'd also mention they attacked Israel directly. There were two massive attacks of hundreds of missiles from Iran on a sovereign state called Israel.

Their leadership is saying, we want to destroy Israel. Well, we chose to believe them and we're acting and the world is going to be safer for that. There's a strange messaging coming out of the Republican Party right now.

You have the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, saying Israel is right and has a right to defend itself, the kind of thing that we're used to hearing from Republican politicians. And then you have a very... sort of cold statement from Marco Rubio, which I'm sure you've seen, but just to repeat for people that are joining the chat now, it basically doesn't say anything about

Israel has a right to do this, or even we're going to help Israel as it defends itself in a retaliatory attack. It basically just says, hands off America, don't attack American targets. I think I'm being pretty fair in my characterization of that. Obviously, there is a big sort of... civil war going on inside the Republican Party about what should be America's foreign policy position. I would love for you to reflect a little bit on that and what you view as the

Trump White House's position vis-a-vis Israel when it comes to this strike? Are they giving them the cold shoulder? Are they giving them the stiff arm? Is it going to come out a few days from now that they were actually supporting them behind the scenes? What's your read of the relationship between Jerusalem and Washington in this moment?

I think there's a very good relationship, but I'm certainly cognizant of the certain strands of opinion. The more isolationist approach, the more conventional approach. I would just say this. First of all, Israel is defending itself. And we're a sovereign nation. We have the right to do it. We didn't ask anyone to fight our wars. We never did. We're fighting our wars. But I'd also say that this is a huge, huge benefit to the national security of the United States of America.

Because to have another crazy regime acquire nuclear weapons like North Korea did, where words did not stop North Korea, but if actions can stop Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. That's a huge benefit for the entire world, including the United States of America. By the way, if Iran did acquire nuclear weapons, the whole region would cascade into a nuclear race, and that would be a hell.

for the world and for the United States. I also want to say Iran is attacking America almost every other day. They tried to kill the president. They've been trying to assassinate American leadership. for years now. So Iran is not this benign state that has nothing to do with America. Having said all of this, Israel is taking the steps. We are taking the steps as a sovereign state.

In the past, in 1981, we were condemned for attacking and destroying Iraq's, Saddam Hussein's nuclear facilities. And later on, the United States thanked us for doing that very thing. Because imagine a nuclear Saddam Hussein. I believe this will be the case as well. Do you get the sense that Benjamin Netanyahu defied Trump tonight? No, I think they're working in coordination. I think at the end of the day, what we're seeing is a sovereign nation defending itself. This is what we need to do.

I also want to make a very important point. All Israelis stand behind this strike. All Israelis, left and right. Myself, who I oppose the current government, I don't think it's the right government for Israel, but I stand behind this decision. It's something I've been preaching for for years to hit the head of the octopus. to take it out aggressively because it's the very last moment. So there's no daylight between anyone in Israel. We all stand behind this strike.

Okay, so let's talk about what realistically you actually expect Israel to achieve tonight. You were the prime minister. I imagine that means you've had more than a couple briefings. on the Iranian nuclear program and on a potential Israeli strike. There were many people, even those who believe that Israel should strike Iran.

were very skeptical and remain skeptical of the idea that it would be capable of doing it on its own, given the extent of Iran's nuclear program and how deep it is underground. So will this attack... actually take out Iran's nuclear program or will it be something more like Stuxnet or some of these other targeted attacks where it rolls it back by a few years? What's your expectation?

Well, I think because of the magnitude of the attack, the scope of the attack, where we're also taking out military leadership, nuclear military leadership and facilities. This could be a big, big pushback on the program. It's yet to be seen the full scope of the effect. From what I'm looking at, this is an ongoing attack. It's not a one-off. We're gradually taking out the air defense systems, the ballistic missile systems, the IRGC leadership.

Quds leadership, everything that moves all these terror heads. So I think this attack has a very good potential to push them back for a meaningful time.

We'll see at the end how it goes. What do you expect the next few days to look like in Israel and around the region? What can people expect by the time they wake up tomorrow in America? We're looking at tough days ahead. We're looking at tough days ahead. We should assume that Iran will respond, will retaliate. We've seen them attack us unprovoked twice over the past year.

hurled about 200 missiles towards us. And all in all, we defended ourselves fairly well. I assume and believe that we're preparing for a... broader attack than that. But Israel has formidable defenses. You know, it's not 100% things can infiltrate Israel. And that's why the actions and behavior of the citizens of Israel are critical. And here I urge, I'm sure you have also fellowship in Israel, stay near the shelters.

Go into shelters when necessary. It saves lives. I want to go, if it's okay with you, to some audience questions. We have brilliant people that read and listen to the free press.

One person here in the audience asks, is there any reason to believe that the developments that are beginning tonight could lead to the fall of the Iranian regime before the year is over? It might. We have to see. Can the IDF, Chris asks, insert troops actually on the ground to destroy nuclear facilities? To what extent, in other words, is this an...

attack a strike from the air? To what extent are there actually people on the ground carrying out some of these attacks? What do we know so far? I don't want to elaborate. Let's wait and see how things go on that front. You have been a vociferous critic of the current prime minister of the state of Israel. How do you judge his actions tonight? As I said, I think domestically.

There's a tremendous amount of criticism, which is correct. But this is not the time to focus on division in Israel. It's time for Israel to unite. behind this very, very important move. We're in for very tough days. This will benefit all Israelis, left and right, religious and secular. So there'll be a time for everything. Right now, we have to...

Unite, stand behind our military, our actions, because all Israelis need a future here in Israel. We are like 20, 21 months into a... very, very exhausting war for Israelis. As I was discussing earlier with Michael, more than 50 hostages still remain. This is a very war weary public. And many people, you know, again, we're not asking you to criticize the current.

the current government of Israel, but many people have been frustrated with Bibi Netanyahu's leadership. So beyond kind of the technical defenses that Israel has between Iron Dome and a lot of other things we were talking about earlier in this conversation, Is Israeli society ready for a massive response that Iran has promised? Give us a little bit of a sense of the feeling that you have.

not just in your family, but in your community and your friend group about like what this means, given all that has happened since October 7th. That's a very good question. And I would say that we've all been surprised and awed by the tremendous amount of energy.

and courage in the people. Now, I'm not going to pretend there's no fatigue. There is. But when people understand the need and connect the action to the... dire need, the vital need to secure our future, I think we certainly have that energy, that power in us to persevere. So the issue is not only how long it goes on, and it is long and it's too long, but the war in Gaza should have been done long ago.

When we understand how vital it is, we certainly have the power. You know, my own children, I look at them and I see a generation I coined the term on October 8th, a nation of lions. Because we were all surprised while there was a failure of leadership and a collapse of leadership on October 7th and nothing worked, government-wise, the people rose.

And I think that's evident. And I'm very proud to be Israeli. I'm very proud to be Israeli. During the, there was an Iranian onslaught, I believe it was around Passover, so maybe April. of this past year, Jordan, and this was a huge moment for Israel, was involved, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I sort of remember Jordan being involved in helping Israel defend itself. What do you imagine the role?

How do you imagine the role that countries like Jordan, the UAE, some of these other countries that are increasingly aligned with Israel are going to play in the coming days and weeks? Well, I'll say this. All the countries you mentioned and like-minded countries see Iran as a horrible player. They don't always voice that publicly for obvious reasons. But Iran, first and foremost, in all forms of radical Islam, threatened the moderate Arab states more than they threatened Israel.

So I'm sure that Israel is doing a huge service to the entire Middle East by striking Iran's military. capabilities, nuclear capabilities, and military leadership. Naftali, Steve Witkoff gave a speech earlier this week at a Jewish event somewhere in the States. I saw a video of it. And he made a statement that I think to many people sounded like the equivalent of Israel, do not strike Iran. When he talked about how Iran's ballistic missiles pose, and this is his statement, is...

as big of an existential threat to Israel as a nuclear Iran. What did you make of that statement? Well, I think precisely because Iran is in the process of building up its munitions of ballistic missiles in the thousands and tens of thousands. That's precisely why we have to prevent them from reaching that point. Right now, the amount they have is big, but...

But still, I believe we can deal with it. But there's a certain point, and they were racing towards that. And in that sense, it's a correct analysis that if Iran would acquire... 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 ballistic missiles with very big warheads, let's call it half a ton or a ton, that would be tantamount to a nuclear weapon. That's correct. And that's why we have to act now.

I want to read you a statement from Senator Andy Kim of New Jersey. He's a Democrat. He just put out this statement. He says, I'm closely monitoring developments in the Middle East following Israel strikes. on targets in Iran. He goes on, says some. And then he says this, this action ordered by Prime Minister Netanyahu appears to deliberately undermine ongoing American diplomatic negotiations about Iran's nuclear program with the latest talk scheduled for this weekend.

conflict should always be a last resort. The decision by Netanyahu to go against American efforts and to go alone in this strike puts American and Israeli lives on the line. We should do everything we can to stop this moment from spiraling in.

to a wider conflict. What do you make of that? I vehemently differ. I'd say a couple of things. First of all, President Trump had given a 60-day ultimatum that ran out. Yesterday. Yesterday was the 60th day. Today's the 61st day. So we actually attribute meaning to the words of the American president. Secondly, There's always a precise timing and the window of opportunity to take out Iran was closing on us rapidly.

And we just couldn't miss out on this window because at the end of the day, and I think everyone will respect this, every country respects another country. that defends sovereignty and its existence. And the contrary, I would look down at a country that doesn't go out and defend itself. So, you know, this senator, what is he saying that we should just lay back?

And the hope that someone else will save us? I don't think so. One of the things that many people, even Israel's defenders, have criticized Israel for is... not having a day after plan for Gaza. What is the day after plan here? I understand it's a different situation, but is it a denuclearized Iran? Is it the end of the Islamic Republic?

that took hold in 1979, like how are Israeli leaders? How were you? If you were prime minister right now, what do you think the kind of day after plan here ought to be? Well, the day after plan, first and foremost, is to neutralize Iran's ability to destroy my country. That's the plan. And it's a very clear-cut situation. very rapidly on both channels, the nuclear channel and the ballistic missile route, acquiring an ability to destroy Israel.

And if someone says, oh, but, you know, they're rational players, they wouldn't do it. I would point them to October 7th. We believe our enemies are near history and ancient history. Not ancient, but... Last century history tells us to believe our enemies and that want to destroy us. So that's the plan. Now, may it develop into something broader? It may, and we'll have to follow what's going on and see the opportunities as they arise. I'm able to take one last question, Barry.

I'll ask you one last question, which is the 30 years ago or even 20 years ago when I was growing up in America, there was a major consensus between Republicans. conservatives, liberals, Democrats, on the question of Israel. It was the outliers who didn't see American and Israeli interests as being aligned. I'm not telling you anything you don't know to say that that has dramatically changed.

And right now on the American right, there are a lot of people who are saying America should have nothing to do with this. And in fact, this endangers America. Not only should Israel go it alone, but perhaps America should cut off aid. I mean, this is not this is no longer a fringe position. What do you want to say to those people? Make the case to those people that this strike is in the American interest. If North Korea had an Israel...

20 or 30 years ago when they went to nuclear, but there was a local Israel that could take out North Korea and did it, then North Korea today wouldn't have a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons. That's a fact. And the same goes with any radical regime. I believe many said that if Israel didn't exist, we'd have to invent it because we are the boots on the ground. Now, what you're articulating and describing, in my view, is a thankless group of people. We don't seek war.

Look, we've been attacked by Iran directly and indirectly for the past 30 years. And Iran is operating all across the world, also against America. They tried to... Kill your president, for heaven's sakes. And we're doing the tough job. We're the ones under fire. So what I would expect is we're not asking America to go fight the war.

We are asking for America to have our back. And I think everyone in the world is looking right now to see how America will respond, what sort of backing it will give Israel. Because that'll be reflected in other theaters such as China, Taiwan, Ukraine, etc. America is a special nation. that holds a unique responsibility in the world. But one way or another, this first and foremost is about saving our country and providing a much... calmer, stabler, and more peaceful Middle East.

Okay, well, Naftali Bennett, I'm getting you at the end of a very long night. I'm so grateful for your time. Wishing you luck and thinking about you and everyone in Israel in the days ahead. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. I will say Barry, one last thing. We talked about one strand that doesn't view Israel closely. I do also want to thank the many, many Americans.

that support Israel, that see that Israel is a small nation defending freedom, defending democracy, defending the dignity of people. And for that, we are deeply appreciative and to President Trump. Thank you so much. Hopefully we'll talk in the days ahead. Thanks for listening. We have leapt to cover this story and we have been ahead of the curve. I encourage all of you to go visit our website. at thefp.com and to read all of our coverage.

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