Coughs - the Differentiating Factors

Bri Hurlburt  0:02  
Today we are recording at the end of summer, and one of the things we've been hearing a lot about is coughs. I'm extra thankful Melissa is here to help us with all things coughing, because I am dealing with this with my own kids.

Melissa Crenshaw  0:41  
Everybody's coughing! I'm doing so many acute consults right now. When this releases, it's going to be fall and this will continue. I want to start by defining coughs. Coughs are hard, so this is going to be about differentiating between the different coughs so that you can know which remedies to use, where to start, and what to do.

Bri Hurlburt  1:18  
Do you feel like you have dealt with more coughing acute consults this summer than usual?

Melissa Crenshaw  1:27  
Yep.

Bri Hurlburt  1:29  
It's weird in the summer to have this much coughing. Maybe it's has to do with COVID? Maybe not. But I have noticed that a lot, too, and I am really struggling with which remedies to use and sticking with the four dose rule.

Melissa Crenshaw  1:53  
I think we're having more sickness right now because everybody was staying home or they were masked if they went out. I shouldn't say everybody, because really, all the people that I know, including us, weren't staying home, and we weren't were masked when we went out. A lot of other people were avoiding other people and places, though, which really lowers immune systems.

Bri Hurlburt  2:24  
Even if we're going out some places, it's still not the same exposure; not as many people are going out or not as many places are open to go to. if you're like me with little kids, we're not going to school or around many kids who go to school, so when we did start meeting with people again who were more comfortable with meeting, I've seen a lot more sickness. 

Melissa Crenshaw  2:52  
I love that you just brought up the four dose rule. Let's start with some of the basic rules around treating acute conditions with homeopathy, but first just a couple of reminders. First of all, we have to remember that homeopathy's job is to move you through the illness easier and faster than if you didn't use homeopathy at all. If you go into using homeopathy with the thought, "I'm going to take this remedy, and it's going to stop the cough," that's no better than allopathy. That's not homeopathy's job. It should shorten the duration and lessen the severity, but likely you still need to move through the condition because moving through the condition strengthens your immune system. Homeopathy doesn't suppress a symptom, it brings it out to get rid of it for good so the next time you get this kind of illness, it's less severe and has a shorter duration each time. It just gets better and better until the day comes where you don't get it anymore. I see that in allergies, colds, coughs, bronchitis and all kinds of things. Remember that when you're taking remedies, the goal is not to shut it down. Although, if we grab it really fast in the beginning with the very first signs of illness, sometimes it can strengthen the immune system so fast and you get such a great response to it that you don't have to really move through the condition like you normally would.

Bri Hurlburt  5:03  
I want to hear your thoughts on something I've observed because I don't know if this is a legitimate thing or if it just happens to be my experience. I feel like I've noticed with more severe illness, that homeopathy almost works more quickly. This has worked out this way for me with high fevers, flu, mastitis, and croup. The times where I've treated croup and it's bad, they're better in the matter of 24 hours, or at least much improved, where with a regular cough that accompanies a colditt lingers for two weeks. What are your just thoughts on that?

Melissa Crenshaw  5:59  
Yeah, I hear that really often, especially with colds. People say they don't really get the best results with homeopathy with colds. You're still gonna move through the condition, and I think people are still thinking homeopathy should have shut this down or should have worked a lot better, a lot faster. That leads to them second guessing themselves and thinking they aren't choosing the right remedies or doing the right things. I don't think that's the case at all. A lot of times people will beat themselves up over giving Tylenol or Motrin, going to the doctor, giving an antibiotic, etc. Don't beat yourself up over that! You're doing the best, you can still use homeopathy along with it. It's still going to work through those things, you're still going to get better, you're still going to uproot conditions rather than suppressing them, and then you can have an easier time in the future with these conditions.

Bri Hurlburt  7:06  
You mentioned something the other day on another call about keeping in mind that we are doing this for the long term benefits, and our goal in homeopathy is not to shut down sickness or suppress it, but to use those illnesses in a way, while also feeling more comfortable in the meantime because of the remedies.

Melissa Crenshaw  7:43  
Right. Homeopathy will also help to strengthen your body. So remember in acute conditions, when you choose a remedy or a protocol to use the four dose rule. This means you stick to the remedy or protocol that you chose for four doses. If at the end of the fourth dose, there's zero change in the condition, then you move on to the next protocol or the next remedy. I often see is people say they see no change after the third dose and want to know what's next. Go ahead and take the fourth dose - often that fourth dose is the kicker. If it's not, then it's okay. We move on, but definitely give it four doses.

Bri Hurlburt  8:52  
When you said no change, you didn't necessarily say no improvement. I think in general, change means improvement, but with coughs that's tricky. I think the word change is a good term because coughs change a lot. Sometimes we interpret that as worsening, or in our minds, we see change but it might get worse, so we don't stick to the four doses. I think that's worth noting. I've never pointed that out, but it stuck out to me today.

Melissa Crenshaw  9:33  
That's a very good thing to discuss because yes, change can be that you're getting better or could be you're getting worse. If you're getting worse, that doesn't mean you're on the wrong track. If the cough worsens, it could be that the remedy is bringing it out and doing its job, so you probably should stick to it. Zero change is positive or negative change. Nothing's happened. It's all the same.

Bri Hurlburt  10:01  
If we stick to the four dose rule and it has dramatically changed, do we then switch remedies and follow the symptoms or would you stick with the remedy that caused that change, even if it doesn't match the profile anymore?

Melissa Crenshaw  10:22  
As the cough changes, you might change remedies. If it was dry, we're using a dry cough remedy. If it becomes wet, it's a normal progression. It's not that your cough is getting worse, but it's changed. Then yes, you might move to a different remedy because of the presenting symptoms. As the presenting symptoms change, you change remedies. Coughs are tricky, so I'm hoping that this episode can just help people do this on their own more often.

Bri Hurlburt  11:05  
It is encouraging to talk through this because it feels exhausting when you're changing remedies a lot, and it can be discouraging for me when I'm changing so much I feel like I must be doing the wrong thing. I might feel like I've been scrambling and changing remedies all the time, but coughs do change, so maybe that was the right thing to do. It just takes a lot of energy, so it is exhausting to keep up with it, but it's the right thing.

Melissa Crenshaw  11:41  
Yeah, and the goal here for this episode, but even this whole podcast, is to teach you well enough that you'll have confidence. When you don't have the confidence in it, you get nervous and you waffle and you go back and forth and feel like you're not doing well. Having confidence with it can make it a peaceful process. You're just going to give the remedies as they're called for. 

Let's start with the with the different cough descriptions.  I do highly encourage you to start with, at the first sign of a cough, Aconite 200c mixed with Bryonia 200c for four doses. You're meeting the intensity of the condition with the frequency of the dosing. It's a very intense cough, you wake up and you're coughing, coughing, coughing, and it's disruptive, then you might take it every 15-30 minutes. If it's just annoying, then maybe you're taking it every three to six hours. After the fourth dose of Aconite and Bryonia, if you're not very much better, or there's no change, then you start getting really specific. So that's what we'll talk about next is the very specifics of Bryonia by itself. 

Bryonia aka DRYonia. Everything about Bryonia is dry. This is going to be that painful, dry hacking cough, and that's how a lot of coughs start. 

Bri Hurlburt  13:35  
Coughs are those things that don't typically start intense like other sicknesses do. Improvement to me sometimes seems like I'm dosing a lot at the beginning, and then slowly spreading out doses. Thinking back with coughs, I usually dose less often, and then as the remedies brings it out, maybe I dose more often for a little while. Then maybe the cough changes and I'm switching remedies like we just talked about. Half of this struggle, as I'm thinking through stuff, is just that it's so opposite of treating some other things. It feels bad or like homeopathy isn't working, when it's just a totally different ballgame.

Melissa Crenshaw  14:28  
Yeah, it really is. It really is. That's why we encourage you to study the medicines. Hopefully you've got a notebook or something you're taking notes in as you listen, but as you study these medicines, you don't have to go and look at your notes - you just hear a dry cough and think, Bryonia! 

Bryonia is a painful cough. You might see the person holding their chest while they while they're coughing because they want to keep their chest still - that's how bad it hurts every time they cough. It hurts so bad in the chest, so they might hold their chest to keep it still. This cough is aggravated by deep breathing, so they're trying to breathe more shallow, because every time they take a deep breath, they start coughing and they don't want to cough because it hurts. 

Bri Hurlburt  15:19  
I know this cough. I have had that cough! 

Melissa Crenshaw  15:22  
Yeah! I think it's one of the most common coughs. Remember, everything about Bryonia is dry. So dry lips, and the person is very thirsty. It can also be associated with a new onset of constipation or dry, hard stools. This person isn't normally constipated. Now they have this dry cough and there's this accompanying constipation. You're looking at Bryonia. One description is that it feels as if the head and chest would fly to pieces. It's painful. 

Bri Hurlburt  16:08  
I think everybody probably knows that feeling.

Melissa Crenshaw  16:13  
This is a cough that compels the person to sit up in the middle of the night and hold the chest to cough. You're doing everything you can to control it and to stop it because it hurts. I'll be honest, it's been a long time since I've had any kind of significant cough, but I remember these coughs and often the rib cage can feel bruised. Literally, my ribs felt bruised. If you start to feel that bruised feeling, you would start Arnica.

Bri Hurlburt  17:01  
I haven't had a bad cough in a while either, but the last one was exactly this. I remember eating buffalo wings just breathing in that spicy sauce started that crazy cough in my chest. I wanted to cry. My ribs hurt, I was coughing so hard. I was also pregnant and couldn't take anything else. Arnica would've been amazing!

Melissa Crenshaw  17:35  
I want to talk about croup a little bit. Honestly, the first time I'd ever heard of this protocol was from youm Bri. I also just found it elsewhere in my notes from another instructor, but I had either forgotten about it, or it was a class that I'd taken after I heard about it from you. 

Spongia Tosta is the homeopathic sponge, and it's number one for croup. I love the protocol that uses Spongia along with Hepar Sulph and Aconite. We're going to talk about that protocol, but also Spongia by itself. A Spongia cough sounds like a seal. There's lots of observation that needs to go on in coughs because you can see the person holding their chest. They might not tell you, "I have to hold my chest," but you can see when they cough that they're holding their chest. Also, we always want to hear the sound of the cough. This Spongia cough sounds like a seal. There's extreme dryness, so you think of the sponge that's not wet. This cough is worse in cold, dry weather, so in the summer, you might not have a Spongia cough.

Bri Hurlburt  19:14  
That's probably why some of the home treatment for croup is going in a hot shower for the steam or putting on the humidifier. I also love learning what the remedies are from. It's amazing to me how they work!

Melissa Crenshaw  19:35  
I know! Again, Spongia Tosta is a super dry cough, probably even drier than Bryonia. It also can sound like a saw going through Pinewood. It sounds terrible, but it DOES sound terrible.

Bri Hurlburt  19:56  
It's funny when you put labels on these coughs because then I suddenly know exactly what you mean. People have asked me before what a croup cough sounds like, and I tell them they'll just know it when you hear it.

Melissa Crenshaw  20:23  
Let's talk about that little protocol that you've used before. Do you want to explain it or?

Bri Hurlburt  20:29  
I found it during a one in the morning deep dive on Google, before I knew about homeopathy much. My oldest was very sick, and I finally found this protocol. It's Aconite, Spongia Tosta, and Hepar Sulph all in 30c. I remember the order by thinking it spells "ASH". 

Melissa Crenshaw  21:02  
I never even noticed that. I love it.

Bri Hurlburt  21:04  
Aconite is especially important in the very beginning. As soon as I heard the first croup cough, I'd give Aconite, wait 15 minutes and give Spongia, wait 15 minutes and give Hepar Sulph. When it was bad, like in the middle of the night if you're seeing retractions or they're not breathing well, I'd wait 15 minutes and do the same thing again, in the same order every time. I did it that close together for four rounds, so they were getting 12 doses of a remedy, but four different rounds of that "ASH" protocol. Even when it was bad in the middle of the night, I typically would only need to do maybe two or three more rounds. I'd wait a few hours, maybe let them go through the night. If it was bad, I would give it to my son even in the middle of the night. If he's sleeping, I usually don't do that, but for croup I did. Then I'd wait until morning and maybe do that protocol again - Aconite, Spongia, Hepar Sulph - and then wait and redose as I needed to. Honestly, I almost never had to do it the next night. What was really cool that I didn't even put together until I took your Gateway classes and you started talking about how homoepathy uproots, is that his croup became less and less severe until he never got it again. None of my kids get it anymore. After a few times of treating that way, I would do one round of that stuff and it was done. Gone. I would hear one cough, give that to him, and it was gone.

Melissa Crenshaw  22:52  
I love it. Yeah, that's how it works if we stick to it! I wish that I had known about that when my kids were little, especially Chandler. He's the one that had gotten croup, whooping cough, RSV, and all the ear infections. The other two didn't get any of that. They got colds, but never anything serious. Chandler got all the serious things.

Bri Hurlburt  23:27  
This may be a little bit of a tangent, but it's really encouraging to be treating our family with these specific things. My husband had said that he would get croup all the time. He had a lot of breathing issues and would get colds really easily or coughs when the heat turned on every year. He's still very, very sensitive to respiratory things. Working out in the garage in the dust gives him cold symptomes the whole next day. In the future now, when my kids have kids, these potential genetic dispositions won't normal thing for them to deal with anymore, right? Because I've been able to use homeopathy to uproot so many things. 

Melissa Crenshaw  24:21  
That's right. That's what homeopathy does too. When there are inherited things, homeopathy can stop that from going forward into future generations.

The next remedy is Rumex Crispus, and this remedy is great when the person really coughs more on becoming uncovered at night. I haven't seen that myself personally or experienced that but that's one of the traits of this remedy. Undressing causes the person to cough. Rumex has white phlegm. That's the other thing to observe or ask the person about - what color is the mucus or the phlegm? We always want to know the color of anything that's coming out or coming up. This can be a short, hacking cough, and a tickle that is excessive. That tickling is really bad. I've had lots of tickling coughs, where when I would talk, then it would get worse.

Bri Hurlburt  26:00  
...and you try to keep talking!

Melissa Crenshaw  26:03  
I used to work at the hospital, and I did work at the hospital through the worst part of COVID. Before COVID, if I had had a cold or flu or whatever, that cough would always kind of hang around a little bit. I'd be in a really warm room, I'd be talking, and I'd feel the tickle. I'd be like, "oh no. There's no way to make it stop." I would have to excuse myself and go get a drink! Nothing but a drink of water was going to stop that cough.

Bri Hurlburt  26:40  
I've been there! I used to have a phone job. And there was one time I was crying from trying to hold it in. I hung up the phone on the customer. I could not speak! I've never even heard of Rumex though.

Melissa Crenshaw  27:10  
It's not extremely common, but it's got that tickle. 

Sambucus is black elderberry. Using that as homeopathic remedy is great for mucus in the bronchioles in lungs. This person suddenly awakens at night choking on the mucus. They can't breathe because the sputum gets caught in the throat.

Bri Hurlburt  27:49  
I've more often seen this in little kids, where they cough up mucus and they don't know what to do with it. 

Melissa Crenshaw  28:08  
Yeah, definitey. A more common cough remedy is Ipecac. The homeopathic remedy, not the pack you used to buy over the counter in the store to induce vomiting. I don't think they sell that anymore. Ipecac, the homeopathic remedy, is good for whooping cough.

Bri Hurlburt  28:43  
Well, and that makes sense that it would induce vomiting because in this case, that's the cough that you can cough so hard you vomit, right?

Melissa Crenshaw  28:52  
Yep, it's the "nag and gag" cough. It's a nagging cough that causes you to gag and/or vomit. The Ipecac cough doesn't feel better after vomiting. Ipecac can also be used if the person is vomiting outside of a cough, but the person doesn't feel better after vomiting. Often you'll feel better after that, but this one doesn't feel better at all.

Bri Hurlburt  29:21  
That sounds like a morning sickness remedy.

Melissa Crenshaw  29:27  
Yeah, that's right. Speaking of pregnancy, I'm working on a new course, so be on the lookout for that. Pregnancy, labor, and delivery. 

Ipecac is similar to Phosphorus, which we're going to talk about soon, where it can be good for nosebleeds with the cough. Maybe you have a cough and that causes your nose to bleed. You would think of Ipecac. This one also brings up white mucus and vomiting from too much mucus. My son used to do that.

Bri Hurlburt  30:16  
My baby seems to have that issue when he's really congested. I'm glad to hear somebody else say that because I thought I was a little bit crazy for thinking it was the drainage. Ipecac may have been a good remedy for him, but I didn't think of it since there wasn't an intense cough.

Melissa Crenshaw  30:57  
Well, now you know for next time. 

The next one is Drosera, and this is my favorite. I don't know why, but I because it works so well in my family. This is my favorite and is number one for whooping cough. Drosera also works well as a preventative during an epidemic or exposure to whooping cough. The whooping cough is loose and rattly. Drosera may have yellow mucus. How does the voice sound? Drosera is a deep and hoarse voice that's not normal for this person. There is pain in the chest, underneath the ribs, from this cough. This cough can also vomit from too much mucus. I just said a minute ago that my youngest son, he used to always do this, he would get a cough and then he would throw up. Drosera was always the one that I used, and for him, it always worked really well. This cough is worse at night and worse for singing and talking. You're probably not going to be singing when you're sick, but if there's a cough made worse by talking, you might think of Drosera.

Bri Hurlburt  32:24  
What about bronchitis? I know whooping cough is a deep cough that will cause hoarseness, but that does make me think of the bronchitis type of cough. Or maybe I'm thinking of laryngitis.

Melissa Crenshaw  32:43  
Well, bronchitis is Phosphorus. Phosphorus is great for bronchitis, and it's also another one of my very favorites. I really love Phosphorus. Phosphorus can also be good for pneumonia associated with burning in the throat, bronchioles and lungs. Phosphorus does have burning. Phosphorus craves cold drinks. So you ask the person, "are you craving any drinks?" We don't want to ask if they're craving any cold drinks. We have to keep our questions open ended and not leading. Phosphorus might cough up blood or bloody sputum. Phosphorus has a lot to do with the blood and with bleeding. 

Bri Hurlburt  33:53  
That's the nosebleed remedy, right?

Melissa Crenshaw  33:56  
Yes, it's a good one for nosebleeds. 

Hepar Sulph is what you can think of as the homeopathic antibiotic. We're not saying that it's an antibiotic or that you can replace your prescribed antibiotic with it, but it does work like an antibiotic without destroying the gut. If you choose to forego the prescription, you could use Hepar Sulph. It's great for all kinds of infections. Hepar Sulph is great for croup and is part of the trio that you used. This is a loose, rattly cough with yellow phlegm. Hepar Sulph is always yellow. So whatever. If the infection is oozing yellow, then you're going to think Hepar Sulph. Hepar Sulph has a barking, choking, rattling cough that's worse in the morning. It's worse with drafts, so this person is very sensitive to drafts. My fan blowing on me would make me cough more if I had a Hepar Sulph cough. I pretty much introduce Hepar Sulph early on in a lot of coughs, and I like to do it in a 200c, twice a day, until you're very much better. You can use it along with other cough remedies.

Bri Hurlburt  35:48  
I have found as I'm learning that Hepar Sulph added in with a lot of protocols is really beneficial. It makes sense in croup because I learned that croup is in the vocal cords, not in your lungs. Itt seems like it would be because it presents breathing issues, but there's not many treatment options aside from a steroid. Antibiotics and things don't really do anything, but Hepar Sulph still works! Homeopathy amazes me.

Melissa Crenshaw  36:35  
Amazing. That's what I was just sitting here thinking. Praise God for homeopathy!

Bri Hurlburt  36:40  
I say a lot that it has dramatically changed my life, and I really mean it. I'm always blown away.

Melissa Crenshaw  36:50  
For those of you that are listening right now, if you didn't hear the episode we did on why you would want to learn homeopathy, go and listen to that. It's life changing. It really is. 

Alright, we have two more remedies. Antimonium Tart is pneumonia, with thick white mucus in the lungs. This is a rattly cough with no power to expectorate the mucus from the lungs. There's great weakness, and you can't cough hard enough to get the mucus out. You can hear it in there, but you can't get it up. Antimonium Tart is number one for rattly respirations. Again, a loose cough but nothing comes up. 

Bri Hurlburt  37:42  
That makes me think of older people who just don't have the physical strength to move that mucus, and that's often why it becomes pneumonia. They just cannot get that out. I know there are other pneumonia protocols, but it sounds like Antimonium Tart would be a good one to consider.

Melissa Crenshaw  38:06  
Yep. I like to use all of these remedies in 200s. You could use the 30c, but I really do like the 200s.

Bri Hurlburt  38:33  
I wonder what the difference would be in that croup protocol. I've always used 30s for croup but have always given it very often. I wonder if I were to do 200s and maybe not need to do it as often. But I know it works, so I've never changed it.

Melissa Crenshaw  38:55  
That's exactly what I was just gonna say. If something works, definitely don't change it. So yes, I'm glad you said that about that trio for croup. I would stick to 30c in those and follow that because it works. That's a protocol that's been around for a long time, so I would stick to that one for sure.

Bri Hurlburt  39:13  
Rumex and Sambucus are not in any kits that I have had or seen. 

Melissa Crenshaw  39:37  
I've never used Rumex or Sambucus. I've never even suggested them in an acute consult, so I think they're just smaller remedies that maybe aren't used so often. The most common of what we talked about are Bryonia, Spongia, Hepar Sulph, Aconite, Drosera, Phosphorus, and Antimonium Tart. 

Bri Hurlburt  39:59  
I think I've used all of those, but Phosphorus was for a nosebleed instead of a cough.

Melissa Crenshaw  40:01  
Yep, I really like Phosphorus for a cough. If you don't have it, you should get it. Phosphorus does a lot of good things. 

One more I just wanted to mention is Crocus Cacti. This is the machine gun cough. I don't have my Materia Medica in front of me to read any more aspects of that remedy, but I've also never used that one. Just so you know, though, f you ever have a machine gun cough or you hear it and you're like, "wow, that sounds like a machine gun!" Get you some Crocus Cacti.

I hope that was beneficial in helping you differentiate between the types of coughs. There is a lot more learning to do with coughs. In fact, in my mentorship program, we dig even deeper than this into coughs and case taking and case management. 

If you haven't seen my mentorship program, go check it out at MMChomeopathy.teachable.com. My homeopathy school is there, so you'll see almost all of my classes. I do also have several classes on my website that are not on teachable, but you can see everything on my website under the "Learn" tab. Jump in on the mentorship program if you want to dig even deeper and learn to do this on your own.

Bri Hurlburt  41:43  
I just had my first live call for the mentorship program. I've sat through gateway for almost two years now, and still feel like we use some of the same terms where that repetition is good. I feel like I'm getting even more familiar and they're becoming second nature, and then putting them into practice in these calls was very helpful. Even after this long of training with you, I feel like it was already really helpful and really good Practice.

Melissa Crenshaw  42:26  
Yes, the program does help you put this into practice because we're going to practice during these live calls. I'm going to throw questions up on the screen for you to answer and I'm going to walk you through what I would do and how I would do it. So jump in -I'd love to see you in the class. Have a wonderful rest of your week and thanks for listening.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai