This week's episodes of Hodinkee Radio are proudly sponsored by our partners at UBS. Stay tuned later in the episode for what we're planning this year in celebration of all things horology. And keep an eye out for the return of UBS House of Craft.
Hello and welcome to day two of Watches and Wonders 2025. My name is James Stacey. I've got Ben, Tantan, and Mark. We are digging into everything we saw today. We're trying to move quickly. We've got a ton of stuff. It's a very busy show this year. We also have a special segment.
in just a few minutes with the CEO of Watches and Wonders Geneva Foundation, Matthew Umair. And I think it's a pretty good chat. Andy and I sat down with him. We had some questions. You won't believe how many hotel rooms they book for this. It's truly a staggering number. So stay tuned for that. But guys, we've had a really busy day. We sure have. We saw Tudor yesterday after recording, so we can chat Tudor if we want. We finally got some hands-on with Rolex. Pretty exciting.
Uh, Oris, Grand Seiko, Tag Heuer, Hermes. It was a busy day. Yeah. You guys want to, want to do a little, get, get through the, the Rolex hurdle with, uh, there's so much stuff to see and talk about. I think we probably should. Let's do Rolex. For all the people that don't want Rolex, just skip ahead five minutes. If you see me with somebody else, that's the next segment. Okay. You could jump to that if you need to. But look, I was surprised by a lot of the stuff.
But especially 1908 on a bracelet, a heartbreaker, really good. And Tantan, the GMT with the Cerachrom dial, the difference that a matte dial makes to a modern, you know, ceramic.
clad rolex is really remarkable that's a cool watch it's bizarre how good it is it's so and it's really different from the black dial i completely agree and you know i think you would just think that something like that is just such a cheap you know like oh they just threw a colored island you know like it's the same thing as a hulk right no um this is the
first ceramic dial Rolex has ever made in a watch. So it is officially a Cerachrom dial. It is... optically different on the dial than it is outside of the crystal so compared to the one on the bezel i believe it's the same shade but it just looks so different and you know both of us observed that when we saw in the booth it kind of looked matte but actually i don't think that's the case it just isn't glassy it just
isn't like bright and glossy it doesn't capture light in the same way that you would expect and i think that's so much of why it looks killer like it doesn't i think ceramic tends to You know, there's a fine line between looking cheap and looking, like, really rich and saturated. And I think this dial managed to balance that in a way that I've never seen before. People have made ceramic dials before. Oh, sure. Not in this way. Yeah. Ben, what'd you figure?
I don't even know where to begin. We saw so many things. Yeah, it was a lot of watches. I'm just excited when Tantan's excited, when Mark is excited. James doesn't get excited, but these guys get excited. Oh, I'm dead inside. Yeah, yeah. That was cool. Yep, for sure. I got to go right to Landweller. I mean, I think that that's the star of the show ultimately. So I think it was really, really nice on the wrist. I felt the 40 millimeters is too large for me.
Then again, I'm literally wearing a 36 millimeter Rolex right now. That's my thighs in Rolex. Super slim, really nice. The steel I thought was a little bit light. Again, I'm wearing a precious watch, so I like heavy things. I thought the rose gold was the standout, actually. The movement looks beautiful. in the flesh, in the metal. Dial, not my favorite, but we kind of knew that it's better than I thought it was going to be. Mark, what did you think of Land Dweller?
Yeah, I think there's like a weird thing. I think maybe... Look, their photography is always awesome, but I always wonder, like, maybe there was something about the way that it was photographed that made the dial look more three-dimensional in pictures, weirdly, whereas it sort of flattens out when you see it in person. I thought that was really cool. I...
Liked more than I expected. I liked that new turquoise dial Daytona I It feels kind of like you know just a fun palm beach watch or like a miami watch or something like that reminds of the daytona beach but like i i really like daytona's on oyster flex and
I don't know that I would buy it, but we saw somebody else walk in wearing it today. It looked amazing. It looked amazing on her. And that person was a woman, and it just looked awesome. I think that's really cool. I think, you know, it's an interesting time for Rolex when they do something.
that dramatic that obviously the rest of the releases are not going to be as dramatic or whatever. I mean, they did eight new Daytona dials this year, but a lot of them were things that they did before, variations on things. that they did before it's also just they understand that they've got one piece that's going to grab all the attention and
Not only for them, but for the rest of watches and wonders, that's the thing. Even if you broke an accuracy record or made the most complicated watch in the world or anything else that we've seen, the fact that Rolex did something that massive just shows...
how hard it is to compete with them on a market and in terms of attention that they get. So it's funny you mentioned that. James and I were in Geneva about a month and a half ago. We were sitting with the CEO and the CMO of an international brand.
And they were like, you know, what's your advice for watches and wonders? And we were like, don't launch anything on the first day. Because it's Rolex Day. Like, it should be an international holiday. It's Rolex Day. And we said, like, look, like, we can show you the numbers. Like, we do publish everything basically at the same time. Rolex actually usually comes.
a little bit later than everybody else and yet the first day of watches and wonders is just dominated by rolex like it just is and that's not any judgment on any other brand or on the world at large it just it just is that way brands don't want to hear it unfortunately and like some some are some are good at it and some i understand they're really proud of what they're doing and it's just not the most helpful thing for them.
If we're trying to help tell their stories about things that are interesting and want to celebrate that stuff, it's no slight against them if they run on day two. We're helping them get more eyeballs because they're not competing with something that is just naturally going to get more clicks. But this year, I think, was...
even more bonkers yeah yeah uh we'll wrap up rolex but quickly if you're gonna buy one rolex from this year what are you buying you know money aside like somebody's gonna hand it to you The one I felt the most about was the 1908 on the bracelet. Yellow gold bracelet. This is the Timo bracelet. Yeah. It's the weight and the fineness of the bracelet, for lack of a better term. Yeah. The bracelet is incredible. It's incredible. And as somebody pointed out.
The idea that it's not actually fixed to the case, the end links are basically curved end links. That's a vintage watch. I mean, somebody that designed that watch was, you know, really looking to appeal to people that like a 1940s gay fair straight link bracelet. And that is a killer bracelet. I'm with you on that.
I mean, the GMT, that's the most positive I felt about the modern six-digit GMTs, which I find they're quite shiny. Yeah, they're great. I'm a sucker for a 16-7-10. I love the solid gold from a previous year. Yep.
But I think that with the green dial really does something. And I think it's just a little bit less shiny, which kind of speaks to me. A little bit more toolish. The other one for me, and this is one of those things that I'll happily admit here, is even though the John Mayer Daytona was coined on a... video that I was hosting on a platform that I founded. I don't own a John Mayer Daytona. You stole the watch that I was going to.
Sorry, Mark. And I feel like that happens a lot with us. And I was in London recently and I almost bought one certified pre-owned. And then I saw this watch and I was like, oh my God, they brought it back for me to buy, basically. And so I guess I would take that because I feel like I need a John Mayer watch in my life, you know?
I think for me, as much as the green GMT seems like the perfect thing, everyone knows in the company I love green dials. Literally, anytime there's a green dial, I'm choosing that one. You didn't know that? No, I'm not wearing an aubergine suit today. That's right. No, I think for me, the silent killer, though, is the rose gold, sorry, Everose GMT with the tiger iron dial. Oh, yeah.
Sick. I mean, it's one stone dial with three minerals inside. It's red jasper, hematite, as well as tiger's eye. And just like, I mean, we all saw it. It's just this really weird... take on a gmt master that's sort of opulent without being gem set um and i think it's just kind of perfect so for me it's like you know if there's one chance to do it i would that would be the one i'd pick i was going to pick the john mayer especially as a
Green Bay Packers fan that doesn't have a Packers-related watch. You need a Packers-related watch. That's the real justification there to spend that much money. I'm going to pick something... just based on pictures alone that we didn't get to see sapphire daytona sure after the after the ruby daytona which i've gotten to see in person and i guess like the rumor is maybe like 20 of those or something they did the same thing with with blue yeah
gem set but it's wild like a modern soda light sort of thing yeah but like black dial with with the baguette bezel and look if I can't have the John Mayer I guess I'll go that way there you go I mean your watch to be fair I think it's like several times more expensive so
Nobody said we had to pay for him. I agree. Like I said, you didn't have to pay. Money, no object. That's Rolex. Obviously, there's a ton of coverage on the site. If there's something more you want, give us a day or two. My guess is we'll get it up there as well.
So I think the other one that we saw, which is after the recording yesterday, is Tudor. And, you know, I think at this point, if you've been on the site or really any site covering watches, you'd know about the releases. You know, I'm a Pelagos nerd, as is Tan Tan. And to see the Ultra, it's a direction I just didn't expect because we've had years of them going down in case size. And then all of a sudden we have multiple coming in at 43, the new 68 BB, and then the Pelagos Ultra.
And yeah, Tantan, what did you think of the Ultra once you got to see it? Oh, I mean, so James and I have disagreed on, as much as we are both Pelagos nerds, I think one of the biggest things we disagree on is sort of which one appeals to us most, right? For me, it's the original design of the Pelagos 42, that sort of...
weird Tudor, like unashamedly modern, exactly, the unashamedly modern Tudor design language. For you, I know it's the Pelagos 39, which is like that perfect wearing case shape. And so for me, I think... I love the Pelagos Ultra because it kind of feels like the best of both worlds, where you have a lot of what made the original design great. And one of the big things that I didn't like on the 39 is that sort of radially brushed ceramic bezel. I love that sort of ultimate.
Great true titanium with matte black ceramic and like these blocky arrow numerals and snowflake hands. That's like perfect. Yeah. And with the ultra, bigger hands, bigger numerals, more loom, two color loom. which is notable for Rolex. And then I think it's the first time I've ever come across this.
By all means, fact check me on this one. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen loom on a bracelet clasp before. 100%. I've never seen that. I don't think so. So if you love the Pelagos, it's basically the same thing. They've integrated the two-stage sort of pseudo T-fit thing. Yep. Where you used to have a little gauge to kind of get the...
the extension on the springs now they've painted the little marker yeah in loom and i was like i hit it with my camera flash and it's like it glows well enough to see it i don't know do i need that no need any of this it's freaking cool though i mean also why not you know like i think there's the idea that the pelagos when it first came out was crazy because it was basically a four thousand dollar five hundred meter diver that was essentially
technically speaking, a Seedweller. You know, it was a competitor for a lot less. And titanium. And in titanium, exactly. Way before Rolex ever did it. And it was when the brand was in the mode of really leaning into Black Bay, which is almost the opposite of Apelagos. Exactly.
up with these sort of two camps and then we got blue and lhd and fxds and 39s and now we've got a lingis and carbons and and you know the line's quite a bit bigger than you can i just say that not too many people would say that apelagos is almost the opposite of a black bay you don't think it is Like in terms of the spectrum of a dive watch? You're talking within the confines of dive watch. They serve the exact same purpose. Oh, they do the same thing, but like 99.9% of humanity.
Well, to me, they're like two different ends of the same spectrum. I get it. Maybe that's a better way to say it. But you're a Tudor hit. Like, you love Tudors. I do. Right. Especially the Pelagos. I would agree with you. But the idea of just, like, throwing everything...
and the kitchen sink into one watch. This was awesome. And it wears thinner. It wears, if you like, if you can wear the 42, you'll be happy. It's a little thinner. I think it wears better on my wrist. One millimeter doesn't do much. It wears better on my wrist than the LHD, and like, that's all you need, you know?
I think we've been seeing this the last couple of years, and maybe even like most, like a moment switched with the monochrome last year, the Blackway monochrome, but this is the year that strikes me the most that Tudor is like...
oh we have the enthusiast audience we've had them for a while like let's fill out the commercial product for a wider variety i mean i think that was it's pretty much the justification for the 68 which i don't necessarily personally get i would love to see the metrics of like
How many people are going to buy that? I wish there was a way to find out how many people are going to buy that that wouldn't have bought the monochrome. But they see a market for that in the larger watches, whether it's the Pelagos or the 68. I think the...
The Burgundy Black Bay 58 is really interesting. And again, I think very niche. But I remember going to Tudor my first time to the headquarters and somebody pulled out for us the... the prototype for that watch which they have on display which is really cool it was a 1990s idea to make a sub with a you know a sunburst red dial and red bezel and they made one and that's it and then when they brought back the black bay line they
didn't want to go all the way I guess I talked to the designer and he said it wasn't the right time to go all the way for that but we could do a bezel and then okay we're starting to feel confident we did that bezel a couple times we did a blue dial on a blue
you know bezel and and eventually they're like all right full circle bring it all back around now is the time for this and again it's like well we have pretty much everything else now we can kind of experiment a little bit i'll be curious to see how successful some of those experiments are but yeah
You know, they still have the core enthusiast products. Yeah, I think that's just it. I think, and I'll kind of echo probably something that I said last year on this podcast, is I love Tudor. And if anybody ever says I wear a modern watch more than I wear my Blackface 58, they're lying. That is truly my favorite, most...
worn watch every day of my life, truly. That case is perfect. Having said that, what I missed about last year and this year is like the weird and wonderful. And I think if you look at what I've always loved about Tudor after the Black Bay 58, which again is my favorite modern Tudor. is these weird offshoots, right? Like we were at Tudor not so long ago here in Geneva, and we saw a solid gold black bay. We saw a ceramic black bay. We saw a sterling silver black bay.
We saw a, what else? Just a P-01. P-01. It was, yeah, as we said, Pelego's first in titanium. They have done these, like, pretty wonky, in a good way. Yeah. Oddballs. Oddballs. And it's like, to come from the family Rolex. and do these weird things is really fun and charming for a guy like me who sees so many goddamn watches, you know? And so this year I was like, okay, this is just all conventional. Yeah, and I'm just like, all right, like, I get it.
And I think, you know, for guys like you, like it fills out the collection really, really well. But there's nothing that gets me. that excited from this year. I like the White Dial Pro. That'd be the one for me just because that feels slightly different. The 54 probably would be the one from last year or the year before. But I love it when they do like a sterling silver case or something. It's so weird. I kind of wonder if like the last couple of years we've seen Rolex.
pick up the mantle of like doing some crazy stuff like really surprising the celebration the puzzle dial these kinds of things like I wonder if that kind of changes any of the calculus for for Tudor because like I guess it does yeah Now they're not the only crazy one in the BAM. Well, yeah. I mean, when Tudor is doing all that crazy stuff that I just mentioned, like Rolex was a hyper-conservative brand in every way. Now they're leaking watches on Ambassadors. Yep.
They're doing all the things that you just mentioned. They're still very conservative, but it really does feel like, oh, that mantle has been taken. The playbook has changed in the last few years. The playbook has really changed, for sure. Special thanks again to our partners at UBS for their support of Hodinkee Radio.
Last October, Hodinkee and UBS brought together some of the most influential personalities and brands in the industry to celebrate all things watches. This year, we're partnering again. with expanded events across the U.S., in addition to our fall House of Craft in New York. Stay tuned to Hodinkee for updates on these events and other projects with our friends at UBS. Now, back to the show.
Hello and welcome to a special presentation for Hodinkee Radio at Watches and Wonders 2025. My name is James Stacey. I'm joined today by my colleague, Andy Hoffman, and a very special guest, the CEO of Watches and Wonders Geneva Foundation, Matthew Umer. How are you? Hello, I'm very good, thank you. We opened the salon, watch the demandeur Dilma.
2025 is ready. It opened yesterday and I'm very happy to have you here. Welcome to Watch the Mondo of Geneva. Thank you so much for having us. Why don't you give us a little bit of a background on the show, how it's kind of transitioned from SIHH. There will definitely be people in the audience who don't remember.
that era and then there's lots that were there right like us and that sort of thing so how has the show been and how's it kind of evolved in the last couple of years and i have some more specific questions for yeah No, sure, the SIHH, the first edition was in 1991 with five brands. Just five. Five, yeah. We are 60 today. So you can see the evolution. A big change with 2021. With the arrival of Rolex, Tudor, Chopard, Chanel brands, we decided to join.
the Watchtower Geneva event. After two online editions, 2020 and 2021, it was 2022 as the first physical gathering. with all those brands. We were 48 brands in 2023, 54 last year and 60 this year with seven new brands with the arrival of Bulgarian six independent brands and a lot of content, a lot of animation personalized and handmade experiences for the guests. The four first days will be...
professional and clients, press, retailers and three days open to the public. Right. And how are the tickets for that? I know I checked on the site a few not that long ago. Because a friend wrote me and asked if they should go. And I said, you should definitely go. And they said, oh, there's no tickets for the day that they wanted. So I think it's quite popular. Yeah, very popular. Last year, we had 19,000 entrances. 19,000 tickets. Yeah, we were sold out before the opening.
Same trend this year. So yeah, for people who want to join, it's almost sold out Saturday. A few tickets left for Sunday and Monday. So yeah. Go on the platform, make your program. You can see the different sessions organized by the brands. We have never been so much content, different experiences inside the booth.
encounter with the watchmakers, workshops, conferences, guided tours to explore the secret of the brands and the Maison. And also a very nice program this week in the city of Geneva with the watchmakers. village and the boutique animation. So a very nice program all week long. Absolutely. And I think what anyone listening would understand at this point is there's a lot going on. Yeah.
This is a maximalist take to what's essentially a very special, interesting expression of a trade show. And I'm curious, just some baseline questions. How many people come through this building while the show's open? So last year we had 49,000 visitors during the week. We expect this year to be again a record edition.
because we had a lot of registration yesterday already, plus 10% attendance Thursday. So yeah, definitely Watch on Earth 2025 will be amazing. How do you keep the people who are here happy? Keep them well-fed, hydrated. Tell us about how many meals, how many drinks you're serving, and how you... How many staff members. How many staff members? It's a big organization. The Wachsons and Moderna Foundation works throughout the year.
hand in hand with the exhibiting brands to build the best meeting platform specific for this industry. There's a lot of coordination. Of course, the operation, it's two months set up. We started here in Palais Expo beginning of February to be ready and open on April 1st. Just to give you some numbers, it's almost 4,000 steps to work.
around the salon. So you need to have good shows when you come to Bois-Saint-Denis-Var. We had 2,000 people working during the setup. Now it's more or less 6,000 staff.
hospitality, security, F&B, because it's very important to keep the level of service when you come to Watch Saunders. It's an experience, an immersive experience in the world of watchmaking, so everything needs to be perfect, like the right... on your wrist absolutely and what do you say I mean you've grown the number of brands each year what do you say to brands when you're telling them why they should join and who
What kind of brands do you want to join? Are there any parts of the industry that you don't want here? You know, Watchtondas is open to all brands interesting in joining. Of course, it's the brand's decision. to come and watch Sonder Geneva. It's a teamwork project. When you come to Watch the Londres, you talk about watchmaking. Our mission is to promote watchmaking all around the world. We have the ambition to create new passions, new vocations in the industry.
and that's why also the youth is the guest of honor this year and a lot of animation dedicated to them in the salon. and in the city with the watchmaking professions that are on the spotlight all week long. Fantastic. Now, I'm curious. The audience will be upset if I don't ask. I see you've got a cardio on the wrist. How do you decide what brand you wear what day?
I'm sure you wake up in the morning and you've got 60 brands. I change every day. Yeah, of course. The salon lasts not 60 days, unfortunately. But I have the chance to be in the middle of... all those beautiful brands and lucky that I have several nice watches that I like to wear according to the suit. It depends on my style of the day.
Very nice. And can you talk about the structure in terms of the brands that are part of the founding members and you've had new brands join and how that's evolving? So the Watchtower Geneva Foundation was created in 2022 by the initiative of Rolex, Richemont and Patek Philippe. Newcomers last year in the foundation board with Chanel, Hermès and LVMH. is a guarantee of continuity and shows a commitment to the future of this event. We have 60 brands participating at this show, so we also have
We're exhibiting committees where we take the decision, the operational decision of the show. And yeah, happy to have a... those very nice players in the industry willing to work together to make watchmaking shine. And your goal is to have more? It's definitely open. So yes, we talked with the entire industry and brands who would like to join. There are still some available space, not a lot, but we still have some space here in Pal Expo for them.
Very good. And I'm curious, beyond just the brands, I think if you walk around the show, you mentioned it's at least 4,000 steps, so you have some time. I saw a YouTube hub, there's the lab, there's a lot more than... just sort of spaces devoted to the brands. Any of that you find specifically exciting as far as this year's additions? The Longitude Zero exhibition.
Must be seen this year, an exhibition presented by the Geneva photographer Fred Merz will take visitors. It's a journey along the Greenwich Meridian. very nice to see. It's a photo exhibition and it's part of the wonders of Watches and Wonders because definitely we want the visitors to experience watchmaking. differently on the booth, of course, but also in the lab, in the exhibition and in the city of Geneva.
And what role does the government, whether it be local or cantonal or federal here, play in the show and in the promotion of watchmaking in general in Switzerland? We are lucky to have a very good relationship with the city and the state of Geneva. all the local partners. The hotels represent more than 40,000 overnight stays during the entire period. I'm sorry, say that number one more time. 40,000 hotel rooms, night bookings. Yeah.
hotel rooms during the period centralized by our team to optimize the stay to yeah it's a lot of coordination a lot of teamwork of course between the brands but also with the city And the local partners. Today, Watchtower Geneva is the largest event in Geneva. And yeah, during that week, the entire world will have eyes on Geneva as the watchmaking destination and capital of time. Amazing.
Well, look, you're a very busy guy. The show's incredible. Congratulations on adding new brands and 40,000 hotel rooms. That number is going to be bouncing around in my brain for a while. That's very impressive. The logistics of this I find very fascinating. We've talked about it in past years as well.
But thank you so much for coming on the show. And anyone who's watching, if you want to learn more, hit the show notes. We'll have all the links and all that kind of stuff and you can dig in deeper. But thank you so much and congratulations for 2025. Thank you very much. We said we'd buzz through Rolex and Tudor, and there's some in yesterday's episode if you didn't happen to get to that. What else did we see that you guys kind of got excited about? I think we have to talk Formula One.
Yeah, we just came from TAG. Yeah, we just came from TAG. We saw all nine of the new sort of Formula One colors in this new revival of the 1986 design. I think the most notable thing, obviously, is Aquaracer got the solar graph movement a few years ago. Really interesting kind of concept.
concept um and now we have uh formula one with solar graph right so it's it's obviously you know and i think this ties into a trend that ben you said yesterday on the podcast which is that i think a lot of brands this year are doing what you would you said is solid commercial stuff right
And that, I think, ties into what you said about Tudor as well. Formula Ones are designed to sell, right? They're cashing in on a pocket of nostalgia that a lot of people have. They serve as, you know, and we can talk about pricing in a little bit because I think that's where most of the- of the conversation. Yeah, I think most people have a little bit of a hesitancy over the sort of $2,000 around price point. But price aside, I think this is essentially the most, I think, significant.
Formula One merchandise that you can get, right? This is instead of buying a cap. you know or a sweatshirt at a Ferrari Polo exactly instead of that at a Grand Prix you might be buying these right and for the people that don't know they're tying each individual release to different Grands Prix so you know you know Mexico will have one Austin will probably have one Miami
Miami, Singapore, all that. And so they're pacing this out in a strategy. And as we were talking to Tag, I know they also kind of alluded that it is also conveniently tied to production. It helps them space out kind of producing so many models. Sure. A ton of the limited edition. are 3,000 pieces, so it's not a small production. But, you know, this is Formula One. It's the right time to do it. It's their moonswatch, right? It's as Tag Heuer is. I don't think it is. You don't think it is? No.
Okay, let's talk about that, because I think most people dismiss it, and this is where the pricing conversation comes in, because I think most people look at it, and they're like, well, this is Tagsman's watch, so why am I paying $2,000 for something? Sure, sure, sure. Which, for the record, I disagree with, because there's a lot more nuance.
in that conversation, right? I didn't want to get into the conversation until we had a chance to see the watches. And if you pick those up, if you've had any experience with tag, what we'll call the entry point for tag, call it a $3,000 Aquaracer, give or take $2,500 Aquaracer. It's the same.
Yep, completely. So the pricing isn't that wild. It's quartz. You're either going to love quartz or you don't. If you guys know my taste, I adore quartz. But my opinion is always, if you're going to go with a quartz watch, get a good quartz. Get one that's very accurate or solar or add something.
more than just it's inexpensive and runs on a battery this one the battery lasts quite a long time for me the product has to feel like the old formula one but it has to work today and i think they nailed those two things And I was afraid too, because when they saw...
I'm usually, when it comes to a modern revival, I'm like, okay, that's fine. Increase the case size a little bit. I get it. It's a little bit bigger, but the size is still small. It still wears small. And because it's shrouded lugs. Bracelet's great. Bracelet's good. Yeah, I completely agree. Dials are not a moon swatch quality die. Correct. This is an applied numeral. Yes. Lots of color. They're nicely made. I don't know. We experience a lot of watches. I feel I'm probably...
borderline of specialists with watches under $5,000. There's nothing about this watch that feels out of place. Correct. Except that we have the context of Omega, a brand that makes amazing $10,000 watches. Yeah. partnering with a translation layer, Swatch, and making this thing. And I think if Tag had partnered with a brand that operated at the $300 price point, I might have a different expectation, but they made a Tag. And that's what it is. I dig it. I'm very...
Seriously considering getting, I love that steel cream red. I mean, we've already talked about it. I would wear that all the time. The green one for me is the winner on the bracelet. Something about the sandblasted metal all over is just awesome. But I think it's also interesting because I just spent a few days at swatches.
well right looking at the system 51 factory and and you know seeing how all that's made and you know and swatch gets should get all the credit for making a hundred percent swiss made watch you know automatic at that price point absolutely and but they're still made very differently you know they're proud
of sort of the i don't want to say shortcuts because that puts it in the negative light but a lot of the compromises you have to work with to get it to that price point you have to be ingenious in that way and i don't think they would suit a tank exactly they suit swatch it's made very differently if you look at a formula one and i think
That's why hopefully people can get their hands on them. Hopefully they'll understand. I mean, the Kith ones were priced exactly, pretty much the same, right? I think a little bit less. A little bit less, yeah.
1750, something like that. But not solar graph. Yeah, exactly. Not the solar graph. And we're like 1950, about 2000. Mark, how did it hit you? I think... they were they were fine i mean i still probably would go in search of a vintage one just because there are certain little things about that that there's a similarity there that like the appeal is very simple it is you know it's little little touches um like what um
I don't know. Looking at the core collection with that cream dial, I shot two of them next to each other, the vintage and the new. The other one is like a little more off. It's the luminous like dial looking situation. I don't know. It's pretty charming, but I can't fault anybody that goes that direction. No, not at all.
Can I do a severe shift in topic real quick? Because I think it's... kind of funny that we went straight to formula one which is yes it's a consumer product yeah it's a big moment and people are people are uh you got another big moment in mind i think i know where this is going one or two big moments in mind that i think are like worth at least
one uh grand seiko most accurate mechanical watch in the world plus minus 20 seconds for their movement really cool big moment i think we're gonna see that play out over time um maybe maybe we'll finally get some more like approachable size divers and stuff like that with a smaller movement overall but uh most complicated wristwatch in the world yeah like yeah good point mark you did it again and you saw it
I saw two in a row. I mean, like Berkeley Grand Comp last year, most complicated watch period in the world, which like people mentioned the size. I mean, it weighed, I think, nearly two pounds and it was massive. And it's just like. you know yeah it's it's a watch people ask how is that not a clock okay i tried finding a definition for a clock versus watch like there's no dividing line technically so like you know at some point yeah what are we all talking about but anyway wrist watch that is
45 millimeters by 14.99 millimeters with 41 complications yeah which is like a half millimeter bigger than the eternal calendar and thickness or something like that and it's it's they let us wear it we couldn't touch the berkeley last year Got to wear it. Got to see it move the hand. I just, I looked at it. They set it down and the time was set to something that like blocks. And I was like, can I set the hands? Yeah, whatever. So it works. Just to be clear.
If you ever have the experience of going to one of these meetings, especially when you're talking about a watch that has two digits worth of complications, it doesn't have to be 40. They don't typically want you to touch much of it or put a fingerprint on it or definitely...
You pull the crown and start changing settings. Or chime. I mean, like, this is something I... Usually a man comes in a suit with gloves and chimes for you. We'll do that for you. The chimer. The chimer. Yeah. It's, I mean, that was absolutely wild. I... wish i had more time to like do more there's a great story on the site it was i mean it was a really special experience and i think like look
Until somebody else, I mean, they beat the record by five complications, which is not insignificant. And like, until somebody else does that. But not only did they do it once, and one, it wasn't a commission. They just said to one of their watchmakers. Spend the next eight years making the most complicated thing that you can that's also wearable. Wearable is important. It's remarkable. And it just looks like any other watch. Somebody said, oh, it's a little slab-sided. I was like, okay.
it's the most complicated watch in the world it's 15 millimeters thick like what are we talking about here like i'm you know but you know the to do that and give somebody the the time i mean if you figure you have a 40 year career that's you know a fifth of your career is spent on one thing it's that's that's super cool and then just to be able to handle that see that and then be told oh yeah if people come to us I mean we're gonna sell this one but if people come to us and they want another one
they want a different dial or something we'll do this this is look up an ota this is what we do so if another person wants one or two or three more people come yeah they'll do them yeah how much how much do these cost So they didn't say anything on pricing? I'm kind of curious. Your guess is... I've heard rumors, and these really are rumors, that it would be about $4 million. I was thinking $3 to $4, and I mean...
I mean, if we split it four ways, I think. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. I think we can do that. Yeah. I think, I think first of all, it's a business right. I think. Yeah. First things first, I think Mark won this podcast because he's totally right. Like the fact that like we're talking about.
Formula One and Land Dwellers and Tudor are not talking about A. The Grand Seiko. And that's all good stuff. I'm not saying that. The Grand Seiko thing is insane. The Grand Seiko thing being the most accurate mechanical watch is 20 plus or minus 20 seconds a year. A year. A year. And their most... their next most accurate watch before that plus minus 15 seconds per month right yeah i don't know that that was the record overall but that was their most act and then
20 a year. Yeah. No, that's a big deal. And very, very right with the Bacheron thing. I think in a different decade, it's just for the 80s or even the 90s. I think it's like that, no matter what Rolex did, that would be the talking point of the enthusiast world. It just shows you how powerful Rolex is.
york times story kind of i mean i'm sure it still is but i think it already has but yeah in a different way i mean like you think about stuff like this is a deep cut but the james schultz wristwatch which was the first ever perpetual calendar minute repeating chronograph was made i believe in the 30s and it was still written about in time magazine i think in the 1950s so like that's the level that we're talking about here now we're going into 41 complications and it's just like
yeah land dweller and it's and land dweller is a big thing for the industry and for what it means for rolex but um but it's just kind of Give Bash around their due for sure. You can't say that we don't have some variety. $2,000 tag, solar all the way up to superfluously thin, 41 complication wristwatches. Have we talked about Cartier yet?
No, we haven't. Probably should, right? I think we got a little time left. Yeah. Another show stealer, I think. I mean, for the vintage lovers. And that's, I will say, still not legible if your eyes are not. absolutely perfect but it was it's still pretty good and it's fun and like okay so you have to look a little bit longer but it's it's my i would argue the coolest tank that's ever been made and like the fact that they did it pretty much
damn near original this time. Instead of the crown at 3 o'clock, now the crown's back at 12, and it's relatively easy to actually set, which is another important thing. What's the movement in that? So... I can't remember the caliber number, but they developed a caliber for the jump hour, apparently, is what my understanding of the messaging was when I wrote about it. And the whole watch is only 6mm thick.
so a jump hour i mean yes other people have done jump hours recently there's a big difference between that that fits in that tank size and is six millimeters thick and you know, other jump hours to me. Yeah. And I, I loved it. I saw that my favorite was the yellow gold. I'm in the yellow gold mindset, as you know, Mark, uh, it does a little, we can share. Yeah. Perfect. Um, yeah, really, really beautiful thing.
So what do you guys like think about the oblique? Is it too weird? It's not too weird. I just prefer the traditional. I think that'd be my take as well. The yellow gold just. wow three for three what about you just cool thing there's like the easiest way to say this is this is gonna get me made fun of i know especially by ben but when i when i before we knew what the pricing was i texted my guy in new york and i've got a guy
I got a guy that I bother. I don't know that I'm helpful to him in any way. I texted him, somebody at Cartier in New York, and I said, you know, if there's a list forming, maybe someday on the Platinum.
And then I heard that the price is rumored around, I think, 50 euro, 50,000 euro. And I was like, if there's a list, can you take me off it for the Platinum? And he's like, yeah, no problem. Gotcha. But I really like... the original and the oblique is interesting but as rich pointed out to me it's better if you're wearing watches in the right hand because the way that the font is twisted you're upside down on the right hand with that turn you have to like distort your body to be able to see
There you go. That's day two. Body distortion, mass complications, land dwellers, and everything else. Loom on a bracelet? Yeah, loom on a bracelet. That's big. We've got a lot of variety. There's a ton of stuff on the site. Even as you're watching this, there will be more stuff. later so please enjoy thank you so much for watching and we'll see you tomorrow for day three from watches and wonders