Hello everybody, ladies, gentlemen, brothers, sisters, comrades, friends. Alexander von Sternberg here giving you another episode, another special interview episode of History Impossible. You have no doubt seen who is featured on this episode, but I just want to say I am very happy to be joined this time with the celebrated journalist and fellow history podcaster Eli Lake, who I believe his main stint right now is at the Free Press, but he's written for all sorts of different
publications over the years. He's been a correspondent in places as far flung and dangerous as Iraq during the Iraq War. We talk a little bit about that, actually, at least he references it. But yeah, I decided to have him on because he is a very very accomplished, very good podcaster.
He is on that short list of podcasts other history podcasts that I listen to with his show Breaking History associated with the Free Press, And honestly, I've been, like I said, I've been listening to his show for a while.
But what caught my ear was a recent re release of a two parter he did, I believe last year, where he talked about the birth of modern Iran and it was re released in light of all the chaos and tumult going on over there what appears, or at least appeared for a while to be quite possibly a
second Iranian Revolution. Regardless, he did a great job with his podcast talking about how things got to the point where there was a revolution in nineteen seventy nine and how it all fell apart, at least for those who were not on the side of the theocratic thugs under
the I tol Komeni. And in the midst of that story that he told, he talked about the Red Green Alliance, which I thought paired very nicely with my recent special episode about the Brown Green or Green Brown Alliance, because honestly, there really doesn't seem to be a shortage of alliances of conveniences when it comes to Western political radicals suddenly deciding they're in love with Islam or Islamism. Even so, Yeah, we talked about that and it was a lot of
fun and it was all too brief. Hopefully we'll be able to do it again sometime. But anyway, that's what I have for you guys on tap today. I want to thank everybody who supports this show over on Patreon or sub stack, including my stalwart companions and friends John Andre Saither and Mike Mayleban who continued to support me through all of this. I appreciate it to no end.
If you guys want to support History Impossible, head over to Patreon dot com, slash History Impossible, or to just history impossible dot com and become a paid subscriber there.
Today.
I appreciate all the help I can get. We're on the final stretch of grad school for me, so you know the dead It's going to have to get paid at some point soon, so it will really help me out here. And I'm actually really excited to share with all of you what I'm working on for this final semester of research that I'm doing, not including of course, my thesis. It's a lot of fun. It was actually going to be a substack piece, but then I became
obsessed and I realized there's a lot there. So we'll be getting a proper deep dive, properly cited analysis of what I'm looking at. And I'm not going to say anything else, but anyway, without further ado, let's get into some impossible history with Eli Lake.
Let me to tell you what you would have seen and heard, if we'll not be pleasant listening, if you were at lunch, or if you have no appetite now it is a good time to switch author.
Radio, an ancestor mine maintained. If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, you don't know. I don't know without an impious I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is inside. I don't feel the aloughing dream.
I feel a lot in.
Night wore.
On. If we share fresshure to guilt, if we share for assure to guill.
Some say the world will end empire, some stay a night. From what I've tasted of desire.
I hold of those of favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to say that the destruction nights is also great and would suffice. This is history and possible, all right. I'm here with the accomplished and awesome writer and reporter for various publications, including The Daily but Daily Beasts, excuse Me, Newsweek, Bloomberg, and now the Free Press, Eli
Lake and for our purposes. He is the host of the Breaking History podcast, one of the few podcasts I am able to listen to at this point in my wheelhouse, and I I really love it, and thank you again for joining me, Eli, I really appreciate it.
My pleasure, Alex, thanks for having me.
Yeah, so let's just talk a little bit, just do a little bit of a in case somehow people don't know breaking history if memory serves. The genesis for breaking history was actually your previous podcast, The re Education. Yeah yeah, and you did get into history and politics, you know, relatively often there too. I actually remember, I don't think it was the first one I listened to, because I definitely was listening to you a little bit before that.
But your your epic on the Church Commission was oh yeah, yeah, I honestly want to go back and re listen to it because there's just so much there. I mean, honestly, mid twentieth century history does seem to be somewhat your wheelhouse. So and that really well.
Yeah, I like that. But I have to say I did one on the mccabees and for the re Education, which I really enjoyed. I did a one on the Roman Republic for they honestly feed what was kind of a it was a pro to breaking history. So you're right, I do tend to focus on twentieth century, but I'm
interested in other stuff. We did one on the Opium War, which is nineteenth century, and I've got some things planned for twenty twenty six where we're definitely going to be in the twentieth century for the first mini season of Breaking History, which will be out in May, which is we're going to do a different format now, so we'll do kind of a deep dive with five or six episodes on a singular topic. But you know, I just like history, and what I like to say is I'm
not an historian. I have a lot of respect for the good ones, but like Dan Carlin says on Hardcore History, which is like one of my inspirations, and same here. Love Dan Carlin, but what he says is, you know, I'm not an historian, but I read the best and I try to do that. And like Carlin, I'm a journalist and I take a journalist approach to history. So I have skills as a journalist and I'm a writer.
I think I'm a pretty good storyteller, and what I like to do is kind of take those skills and use them and apply the skepticism that I've learned, you know, of a in my very long career as a journalist. I'm now fifty three and I've been doing it since I was I guess in college, so that's you know, more than thirty years and applying it to like history but not one of the things I don't want to do is like the and that's the story of or
isn't this interesting? Or like you know, I like to so what history, what breaking history is trying to do? And I think we accomplished it in most of more episodes. And when when we're at our best is we like to say, Okay, this is something that is bedeviling us right now, that's kind of in the news, and here's the context of that. This is where it goes back.
So you know, I don't know, like to give some examples from last year, you know, when we when it looked like it was pretty clear a mom Donnie was going to be the first socialist mayor or real socialist, I mean, I should say David Dinkins was technically a member of the DSA, but he ran as a Democrat.
I did a story kind of the history of the Democratic Socialist of America and actually the episode was the history of socialism in America, and we spent a lot of time looking at Michael Harrington, and that was very satisfying because it was like a way of understanding, you know, Okay, who is this guy who is about to be the mayor of New York.
Yeah, we get these highs and lows with the Democratic Socialists too, and a lot. I mean, if I remember right, one of the founders of the party has really come out hard against the direction it's been going in am I remembering that correctly.
Yeah, that is correct. Maurice Issermon, who is the biographer Michael Michael Harrington's basically the founder of the party, Okay. And Maurice Userman, who was one of his you know, protegees and also his biographer, left the dsay after October seventh because the Democratic Socialism of America could not bring themselves to condemn a pug rum.
Which we'll be getting into in a little bit, I think.
But yeah, by the way, just as we're finding now, I mean, I think you have to sort of distinguish between the tanky left and the you know, feel good left, and I think that there's that you're seeing. The tanky left has nothing to say about the massacres in Iran. In fact, no, their worst, the worst tankies in the in the Western Left, like Max Blumenthal, are just regurgitating, vomiting up the lies and propaganda of the regime itself justifying this. I don't want to like, you know, we
don't really have numbers. We have estimates, but some estimates are higher than thirty thousand in literally two days. That is kind of a number. Now, Yeah, I mean I can't. I don't know what to do. I mean, listen, I don't need to know the numbers. I know, I know I have enough credible reports of what they're doing. They're
literally going into the hospitals and killing the wounded. They're charging the families for the bodies of their loved ones, and they're having them sort through un marked body bags to find the corpses of their family members. Is absolutely disgusting and not to put not to say it too graphically, Alex, but I mean Kamenee and his henchmen deserve to be hanging from the same crane they use to execute dissonance. Yeah, that would be an appropriate end to that, to those monsters, to those demons.
Yeah, I yeah, And that's the thing I mean I did want to talk I mean, because you know, part of what I wanted to talk to you about was related to this. You know, when I say ongoing issue with Iran, I mean ongoing since nineteen seventy nine. But I mean it's especially when talking about the stuff that's
been happening in the last month or so. It's just we don't there's no way to make that a conversation about that evergreen in a way except to just say, as of now, which is right now, it's January thirtieth, there are, as you say, tens of thousands of dead people.
We don't even know the extent of what's going on, you know, there yet, but as you say, you have a very good idea of the character of it and the general scale of it, which is yeah, so but yeah, I you know, I was thinking about this, and I made a note about this, and we are kind of
talking about the contemporary moment. What do you make of this sudden recent ish turn of democratic politicians, including Mom Donnie, but also AOC and everybody just seeming to very quickly coalesced around this condemnation of anti Semitism that they couldn't really seem to bring themselves to do for the past two years or so that I mean that is it just mid term syndrome. I mean, that's kind of what I first assumed. But it did feel very coordinated in
a way which I hesitate to use that words. It feels conspiratorial. But it just was so sudden and seemingly out of nowhere.
Notice all first of all, that that I appreciate that what you did there is the opposite of what a conspiracy theorist would do, which is to say something looks amiss. When you see so many Democratic politicians who were uh not critical of the sort of I don't know whatever the leftist route, the leftist uh you know.
The Red Green Alliance will be getting to in a little bit.
Yeah, right, And and then now they sort of are saying, wait a second, you guys are have have i'd saying you love hamas and queens? What Now? Some of that is just like a kind of like it's politicians, especially members of the House, but anyone who has to stand for an election has to in some way have their finger and be aware of the shifts in popular opinions. So they may be reflecting that it's the gouse of
war is not in the news every day. The image that you know, TikTok is now under I guess a kind of different We'll see if it's a different algorithm, but it's a different ownership. At least in America, there are certain factors that you know, people who are seeking political careers where they have to appeal to voters are saying, well, wait a second, maybe this isn't cost free. Yet at the same time, there is still a pretty like that,
you know, I take what you said. But then there's this activist base which is you know, taking over the institutions and Democratics party and also in you know, the state local governments of very blue areas of the country, and they're imposing purity tests on lots of politicians, so they're not stopping. And it's it reminds me a little bit of the trans thing where, you know, we saw after the twenty twenty four election, Seth Moulton of Massachusetts right come out and say.
You know what, I he took the seventy position.
Yeah, maybe biological men shouldn't be competing in women's sports, even if they say they're girl. He was killed for that. He's they were going to primary him, they were going to go after him. And what Moulton did is something that Rocanna also did. He did was he said, okay, I'm he didn't quite back away from his trans position, but then he said he now is the guy who's like,
I want to take a red scent from APAC. I have mixed feelings on APAC at this point, which is a separate issue, but that was clearly a soop to the same crowd. Now, my view of it is is
that there's something else. There's a third factor here in addition to all of them, and that is that Gaza between twenty twenty three and twenty and probably I would say, you know, yeah, when twenty twenty five after the ceasefire, you had two years where that was the insta cause, that was the Omnibus, the Omni cause, the instacause, right, and now the Omni cause is ice in our cities now, you know like it? And that means and the difference between an Omni cause and then like a plank of
my progressive agenda. Because we're human beings. And if you are on the left, you can say, well, I hate Israel, I hate the Ice, I like the trans open borders and these are my issues. But the thing about an omni cause is that it's an emergency. It's a crisis. And if you are talking about anything other than the crisis, but that I love that phrase. You see it on social media now all the time. Don't stop talking about Gaza, or don't stop talking about Iran, which I agree, don't
stop talking about it r on. But that's the point of that, is that, like, there's no room to talk about climate change when there is a so called genocide in Gaza, and there's no room to talk about Gaza when Gestapo Trump forces are in our cities. And so that's the thing, is that if it's it's not just that this is an issue that we agree on in this part of our agenda and you can you can read it in our convention or whatever. No, this is
the only thing that we can talk about. And that's the that's the kind of problem now we see and and in every single one of these cases, obviously it's more complicated, Obviously it's more nuanced. Obviously it's a very slanted view of things. I mean, it's still is amazing to me. And it's the power of that horrible video of George Floyd in twenty twenty. Yeah, but that was then taken to mean that every police department in the country was hunting black men. There that is that's a lie.
That's just not statistically speaking, it doesn't even register.
Not even statistic It's been it's Roland Fryar, the.
Harvard Economy Roll and Friary.
You can look at all of these things and you can go through it and you can say, wait a second, that's just not true, and you can still think what happened to George Floyd was horrible, which it was.
I think like ninety eight percent of people probably agree.
Yeah, right, So, but what I'm saying is that, like oftentimes with the instant, with the with the omni cause, what happens is that because you kind of get people who get into crisis inflation and therefore distort a problem way out of proportion, the kinds of policies that they end up sort of supporting to address this crisis end
up being deeply unpopular. Girls. I mean, the crisis that created the transgender youth moral panic was the idea that if you did not provide what they would call healthcare to an eleven year old, that it was unclear about what their gender identity was. Then they would commit suicide. So you were condemning that adolescent to you know, misery depression, they would kill themselves. There was no evidence really for that.
In fact, there's probably more evidence that people who get surgery or take hormones or so forth sometimes end up being much sadder and more depressed, and sometimes that won't be the reason why they take their own lives. But there was no real data to back that up. But it was enough. That was a statistic that was a kind of so called a fake fact that was then used to justify a series of wildly unpopular, ridiculous probably similar with George Floyd, the idea that any political party
would indulge, let alone endorse, defund the police. That's insane, That's an insane thing to do. And I went so much.
Well, I just want to say, I don't want to give too much credit to it, but I don't think we can underrate the effect of the pandemic. I think that pandemics tend to have a deranging quality to them that gets underappreciated, especially throughout history, and I think that that helped accelerate such things. But at the same time.
But it was also it's also a social media thing.
It's like a right exactly exactly.
In the eure of social media, where we candense every thought an argument to two hundred and forty four characters. Right, that's another part of it.
Can we kind of extend this because I like what you're saying here, because I do think it's very apt in like talking about how people create omni causes, especially it's been kind of a feature of American left of center politics for I mean, I'm just gonna just say ten years, last ten years or so, but I mean it's probably been longer than that, at least at a
cultural level. But it does kind of seem like that that fever is taken hold on the American right to a certain degree too, when it comes to things like ice rates, like that's becoming a very unpopular thing that's been going on, Except when you start to break it down, it's like the original sort of claim was we're going to go after the worst of the worst. That's like an eighty five ninety percent approval for something like that.
But then you get to like, you know, snashing up a five year old you know, no one wants to see that you get this, you see the people getting killed, And I should tell you my hometown is Minneapolis, actually, so I mean, I know exactly where all this stuff has been going down, and no one, especially anyone back there. But no one really except for the most performative types on X that I've seen, seem to really like what
they're scene there. So I'm just wondering if this, like maybe we can call it, I like you call it uh inflation, Yeah, crisis inflation. Crisis inflation, right, omni cause uh formation That seems to be kind of a feature of I guess we could call it radical politics these days, or maybe performative politics radical than usual.
And again it becomes I think it's a little different because it's like radical politics and the cheap because real radicals there's a certain kind of revolutionary discipline that a real radical would have that none of these people do.
A lot of it is performative, a lot of it is like, you know, it's the black box, it's the black square in your social media profile, it's the it's the uh you know in this house sign on your lawn orgies right or on the right, it's it's you know, like going along with ice or whatever the I mean in this case, it was a classic matter of you can't keep lying when you have video evidence. Yeah, and you can't call everybody a domestic terrorist and that it was just it's just I mean, like the behavior of
Christinome and Stephen Miller is just abominable and embarrassing. And you know, if I am not a I don't I'm not a strident like never Trumper. In fact, I've I've written things about how I've written a lot about the law fair against Trump and how Unfarah was and Russia Gate. And but at the same time, this is an administration that has like no problem just lying. I mean like it was a lie. I mean, renee Good is a domestic terrorist.
That's insane and it's uh and and and I think it caught up with them because the video so clearly showed that it wasn't that. And like know you can have I'm I have a somewhat nance nuanced view of Alex pretty at this point, which is like, uh, he seemed to have been an activist for sure, and uh, some of his tactics were designed, as many activists do,
to provoke confrontation with law enforcement. But that's not a crime, and like the idea that that justifies in some ways his his killing is horrible.
Well, the meme I saw was what was like it's and it's a good meme is saying, you know, well, he kicked a car one week before he was killed, so he deserved to be killed by the state. Like that's like come on, like he like y, Yeah, it's absurd.
So there's like two different things. Like one thing is that even the best trained law enforcement when they're in situations, are gonna they're going to be horrible, catastrophic mistakes that are made. And that is a reality of having human beings in institutions like law enforcement. But this the ICE and Border Patrol people that are being sent to Minneapolis and other cities. The ICE, the ranks of ICE have increased, they've lowered their standards, They've brought in people who they
probably should have been vetted out of the program. You have, at least until this week with the new decision to bring in Tom Holman to bring some professionalism to these operations. You had this clown show approach to immigration enforcement where it was all theater. It was all meant to be like a viral sixty second thing on you know, x or TikTok or Instagram, and that is deeply irresponsible for
a very naughty problem. Uh you know, and it was I'm just like these people are you know, just amateur not just amateur isu. It was it's it's worse than that. It's like they were in they wanted to kind of create this idea. They wanted to to sort of like you have awesome power as the government when you're performing, when you're when you're basically like executing law enforcement opserations like this on a federal level. And for these people, that seem like the main goal was again it was
it was it was the video. And so it's like, I can't tell you how much contempt I have for that. And by the way, the people who should be most offended should be the people who are most concerned about the problem of border enforcement and the problem of like, you know, flood of illegal immigrants in coming into our country. So if that's your issue, you should be angry at Christy Nome and Stephen Miller and Donald Trump for turning your serious issue into a meme. By the way, I
feel the same. I mean, like I have I absolutely love white supremacist and white nationalists. But if I was like a hardcore turner Diaries Idaho militia, like white Race Forever guy, I would hate Nick Fuentes, I would hate Myron Gains. I would hate these like like pathetic, what the look max Er Clavicula or whatever the you know
what I mean? And I would be thinking to myself, you know, I've spent like, you know, thirty five years, like you know, measuring you know, skulls with my phrenology, and like learning eugenics and like doing all of the work, and you come in here and you're like this quarter Mexican closet case is claiming to speak on behalf of all the proud whites. Again, I hate those white nationalists. I think it's liberal and horrible. I'm a small c traditional kind of class.
I was going to say, And I do appreciate I've always appreciated your commentary on politics from a we'll just say right of center perspective, because it does have that nuance there and right.
But I'm saying that there is something to like the fact that it's there's a generation of people who really they have no appreciation for the intellectual consistency, the intellectual history, or any of these things. And so if your issue is, you know, the browning of America, you know, my first target would be this clown show and you know who's so allegedly sort of picked up the mantle.
Yeah, yeah, And that actually is a good way to sort of like loop us into like talking a bit about history, because, as you say, they don't really seem to have an awareness of it, those who consume these people, I actually think a lot of these well maybe not the clown Show, you listen, I don't think any of them know much of anything about the history of what they're going to do. Maybe flent As does. I can
never I don't know what to make of him. He's like every time I think he's a more on he he realized, he shows a craftiness that I just I don't know what to make of.
I think craftiness is the right word. Yeah, idiot, he's he's he is, he's a he's like he's a clever uh talker, but he doesn't really know things rightens by the fact that he just accepts like the classic kind of you know, knuckle dragging conspiracy theory about like Jewish influence right, yeah, which so forth, which is just like anytime I hear that, I'm just like, okay, you're you're a dumb thumb. Yeah.
Well, we'll loop back to the to the the what I call the Green Brown Alliance in a minute, but I wanted to jump back to what we were actually originally talking about. This was really fun that we just went on a big modern day tangent here. But that is partly what you do as well, which is ti politics and history together, which is very hard to do. I I find myself do we need a fair amount too?
But we were talking about the omniicause earlier, and that absolutely defines I think what you talked about in your Making of Modern Iran two part.
Thank you So glad you listened to that. That two parter of that was. I thought that was some of my best work. Thank you.
It was amazing and well. And also I listened to you talking to Michael moynihan on the moy Hand Report about the history of Iran, which you know, we could go down that rabbit hole if you want, but I mean, I'm really interested in this creation of the Red Green Alliance or I don't know if you've read Robert Wistrich's a Lethal Obsession. It's just massive tone.
No, I got to read that. I read a great book on said, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But regardless of Lethal Obsession, it's a very good book. I honestly, I can't say I've read the whole thing because it's so long that I've read chapters of it. It's it's I guess I would say it's like a definitive history of anti Semitism in that sense. But anyway, he calls it the red Green Axis in that book, which I always thought was really a fun title. But what I think is really clear is that you can kind of see that in the question of an
omni cause. I mean, you saw it with Mom Danni back in that video from twenty twenty three where he said where he made the infamous boot of the NYPD is being laced by the IDF comment he in the midst of saying that said we have to make this global cause local and making it into an omni cause.
It was pretty pretty nasty, nasty stuff, And so I can kind of see why he would be part of this movement of democratic politicians to walk back a lot of this stuff by essentially pretending they never said it, and by acting like they really care about anti Semitism all the time. But so basically what I'm saying is I think that the Omni cause has now become kind of this way of the Red Green Alliance to make sense of things, of itself and of the inconsistencies between
these things. But I guess I wanted to just, you know, jump back to your work on that amazing two parter where you talked about that what is the I guess what, you know, I'll just I'll make it as broad as possible. What is the Red Green Alliance and what is its history?
Well, the Red Green Alliance is the solidarity that socialists have shown and in some cases vice versa for political Islam. And you know, so you know, for the most part, it is it doesn't really manifest until the nineteen seventy nine Islamic Revolution in Iran, because if you think about it, Marxists are against organized religion and the Muslim brotherhood or
the origins of political Islam. Let's start with us in Albana and Cairo want to replace the sort of modern secular state with a state that is run by Islamic principles. So why in the world would these kind of two
ideology have anything to do with each other. Political Islam is kind of you could argue, naturally illiberal and anti modern and I would say that you also there is I would say, socialism and its core is illiberal as well, but it does so under the guise of kind of modernism where it's trying to kind of I don't know, rescue or save you know, countries from the superstitions and
the mental bondage, if you will, of religion. I mean famously, of course, Karl Marx called religion the opiate of the masses. And so why would you know, why why would one movement that is deeply hostile to organize religion embrace literally
political Islam. So the answer is that they It comes to kind of a point where the Chavran Mohammed res apology is hated by the left, and he's hated by the left because he's very close with the US but also espetically the CIA, and it he is he has seen, I think, through a complete misreading of the history of the early fifties as the beneficiary of a kind of c I a I six led coup in Iran, and
there were. There are some legitimate criticisms that the shot there's a vaschasm between the super wealthy and and a lot of Iranians who are living below the poverty line under the Shah. But that's the only fact that the left focuses on. I mean, the other fact about the show is that he modernized. He and his grandfather ends up modernizing Iran, bringing it into the twentieth century. So, you know, Mohammed Resasha, who was effectively ousted in seventy nine,
introduces women's rights. He introduces very important thing. It's hard for us to understand in America, but he introduces something sometimes it's called land reform, but what it was was that it broke the monopoly that most of the mosques, Sheia mosques and the sort of organized clerical system in Iran had controlled a lot of the land. The were
absentee landlords. Also, the Polavey family owned a lot of land that they you know, and it was kind of a system where you had serfs the equivalent of serfs in Iran, you know, up to their late fifties early sixties. And then these reforms known as the White Revolution were aimed at doing you know, at kind of creating the
conditions where people could own their own farms. It also was creating conditions for universalizing education, so they weren't just getting like up to the eighth grade through usually religious school, but the state would have an interest in making sure people were literate, giving people high school. Things like that
super important. Taking for granted, and the reason the shop was not more popular because I think those were these are reforms that the original liberals in Iran in nineteen oh five in the Constitutional Revolution, which creates the Maudless, which is their parliament, which is an institution. Even though it has been you know, beaten and battered, it still remains, which is one reason for a glimmer of hope that we can finally get through this period of the Islamic Republic.
But he manages to do it, but he does it increasingly by consolidting power. It becomes more and more authoritarian, and there's an enormous amount of corruption. And what's worse is that, you know, the Shop is in this period kind of isolated. He doesn't understand the move He doesn't really kind of doesn't understand the pulse of his own people because he has a court of advisors by the late sixties early seventies that won't tell him bad news.
And so he has this huge party in Persepolis celebrating twenty five hundred years of Persian the Persian monarchies and dynasties. It's unbelievably lavish. He makes it a huge media that he invites world leaders from all over the world. It's like Iran taking its place among the great nations and its rightful place, restoring its claim to being a great power,
great nation. And meanwhile, like the rest of the country is like, you know, in a kind of stagnating economy and they're not doing very well, and you know, then things are set off. He has another problem in Iatola Homani, who is a charismatic cleric who has been a critic
of the Shah ever since. He was effectively installed in the beginning of World War Two when his father's then after his father's exiled and Romani is a very effective critic, but he takes advantage of new technology, particularly telephones, and is able to get his and tape recorders and tape and and and cassette recording recordings, and is able to get his audio sermons into the country through a network through the mosques because Iran is not totalitarian, it's rather authoritarian.
That kind of thing is possible. And after on New Year's he've toast from Jimmy Carter to Mohammed Resis shapollay. Uh he that's sort of the beginning of the revolution because it's broadcast all over the you know, the newspapers write about it and people see it and it's like, you know, you've managed your country so well. People will end up bullshit.
To clarify, uh the Iyetola he was was he in France at the time. I mean, I guess I'm one of you.
He's initially exiled to Turkey. Then he goes to Naja. The Najaf is the seat of Shia Islam, so that's it's not in comb which is an eron, it's Naja in Naja. I he you know, writes books on his vision for politically, has a book called Islamic Government, which is i'd say in my podcast that's like his mind comp because he says exactly what he's going to do. And then like there are a series of mistakes that
that the Shah makes. I mean, the first mistake I would say is that he should have executed him in sixty four when he was first arrested and then kind of re offends and continues to challenge him. Said he exiles Hi because he don't want to make and.
Want to imagine if that had happened. That's a good counterfactual.
Yeah, but you know, he exiles him, and then he he fears in seventy eight, when the revolution is building at this time that because Naseev is so close to Iran, he'd like to get him as far away. He says,
could you exile him to Paris? That was a massive mistake because Paris, unlike nase is accessible to the Western media, and there are enough people around Homani that understand and this is where the Red Green Alliance comes in, that understand that they can they can they can they can market, they can package basically a reactionary cleric as an anti imperialist. And it's that anti imperialism that appeals to prominent leftists
and liberals at the time. So you have Michelle Fuko, who is the you know, French postmodernist, probably one of the most influential intellectuals of the twentieth century. It's responsible for a lot of the gobbly gook that one finds today in all the hyphenated areas studies.
I read a fair bit of Fuco as an undergrad.
Yeah we all had to, I mean yeah yeah. So he then takes it. He's like a he gets a job for an Italian newspaper as a correspondent covering the Iranian Revolution, and he's like just loves he loves he loves this harmony fellow. He thinks he's like so visceral and wonderful. But it wasn't just Fuco. It was Andrew Young, who was the Jimmy Carter's US ambassadors to the United Nations.
It was this guy who's op ed in The Times is constantly quoted, Richard Fox, who was like called trusting homany and like how he could he could maybe be like the Iranian George Washington. It's the series of kind of left wing and liberal thought leaders in the West who are like, no, the Shaw. You know, he's got
a vicious intelligence service, the savak, the tortures people. He's he's, uh, you know, he's got a you know, cabinet full of kleptocrats, and you know, we let's let's let's let this happen. This is a true this is democratic, this is a good thing. Total wasn't It wasn't really democratic. I mean, but like Comanie, it was a liar. He was willing
to say whatever it was to get into power. So he made promises, for example, to the military saying, okay, if you don't fire on the protests, then they'll you'll be treated well. And and I'm that and and of course one of the first things he does when he gets back to Iran is he he has them tried and executed. He makes promises to the communists, the to Dead Party that he wants to be part of a coalition. He's not going to be. He's not really interested in
running the country. And you know, the Tuda party stupidly and they were, by the way, like dirt bags, and they endorsed terrorism a lot. So I don't want to like, I don't want to overstate it, but they they they stupidly believed him. Lots of people believed him. Not everyone did. There were a lot of Iranians who were warning about it, but it was putting a lot of like kind of
the Iranian intellectuals in an interest a weird position. They had their own fairly like and correct critiques of the stagnation of Iran under the Shah and how they wanted more democracy. That has been a constant theme of the entire twentieth century for Iran, which is the balance between a king and a constitution. And so they were so so on the one hand they saw that, and then then but then there's this figure who is incredibly charismatic, is able to mobilize a different set of the population.
If you go back and you look at Mosada and what happened with him, Mohammed Mosada was, you know, one the heroes of the of the original constitutional kind of movement. He emerges more in the nineteen teens and nineteen twenties, but he's somebody who for a long time kind of represented the most honorable kind of Iranian person, who who
wanted liberalism for the country and so forth. When he when he gets power, he's he kind of he catches the authoritarian bug and does a lot of things that are illiberal and anti democratic, like dissolving the Supreme Court and ultimately dissolving the modules itself. But the reason that Mossadat is forced to stand down is because the speaker of the mosuless and the like most senior Ayatola at the time is Guy Kashani. He turns on most of death. He was part of his coalition, and it says, I'm
not I can't take it anymore. You're you're reckless, You're you're power hungry. And so the ability to kind of get the clerics onside for a revolution was that made it much more potent in some ways. The problem was is that you, the person at the top of the of the heap, at the top of that movement, had no interest in sharing power and only an interest in installing Islamic government. And so the Red part, the socialist part in the West for years pretended that this was
a democratic revolution when it wasn't. Omani stole the revolution.
And killed his colleagues or comrade killed his colleagues.
Did you know it was far worse than bloodier than the shot in any ways.
It reminds me I just wanted to throw in here. Sorry to cut you off a minute, but I mean, it just reminds me of sort of how I get the sense and maybe you can correct me on this that if you apply the Palestinian branch of the Red Green alliance. You can kind of understand maybe why like the og reds so to speak, and sixties and seventies
supported the PLO because they were more socialist tinged the way. Yeah, and they were, but they just never well maybe the ogs noticed this, but like nowadays, I think nobody really like they just sort of think of the PLO as being what the Palestinian movement is represented by that. They think Hamas is just a new version of that, when they don't realize that Hamas is the opposite in a
lot of ways. I mean, they they just never updated the people here in the West, never updated their undir understanding of what the Palestinian nationalist movement has more tended towards, which in my opinion is, you know, what it used to be when it started under Pajumin al Husseini. But putting that aside, I just I'm wondering if.
That there I there's always been an Islamic element. Yeah, yeah, Pajamin Alsani was not really a political Islamist the way that Kossum of the Cossum I'm forgetting his full name, but Am yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Alkassam who that's the Kamas names there militia after he really was a
has and Albana style site cutch up style Islamus. But he also but but it was it was close enough because Handramin Alsani made it, you know, started this lie that the Jews wanted to destroy Alaksa Mosque and rebuild the temple. That was never true, but that lie has persisted for one hundred years. And if you look at the name of October seventh, it was the Alaxa flood, So it retains a kind of grip on the Palacine movement. Arafat was largely a kind of secular leader. He adopted
the times. He you know, kind of plaid lip service to international socialism and so forth. But he had a big tent. The plow was meant to be. But in two thousand, for the second Intfada, what what you know, under his leadership was created the Alaxa Martyr's Brigade, again playing back to Hajajamin al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem for your listeners, who you know again spy this horrible why and that why has been used to just kill I don't know, untold thousands, right.
And that yeah, I was gonna say that blending. I think that I think you can draw that. I mean, it's a different kind of blending, like you like in Iran. It's a little clearer because it was, just as you said, as we were saying a moment ago, a betrayal of the socialists, right, the you know, the liberals.
You could even.
Say so, so I can in that sense, I mean, I guess I'm saying perversely, I can kind of sympathize with the well, maybe not sympathize, but I can understand the ignorance that Western observers who don't really look into the history of all this stuff might allow themselves to be taken in by it. And that could partly explain the red green a line. But I do think that there's something else going on, and that's the idea of shared enemies. That seems to be what drives these alliances
that have these disparate beliefs. I mean, as you were saying earlier, secular Marxists should have nothing in common with you know, islamus thugs frankly, but they both hate imperialism quote unquote, even though obviously they both like their own forms of imperialism.
Right. But there's another there's another thing, like over the years that's crept into it, we should say, sure, and that is that there is a kind of exotification. There's a kind of like weird ye fetishization of like sincere revolutionary violence. There is a kind of extreme form of multiculturalism where you respect that these poor people, you know, let's respect their folk ways as it were. That is a version of the low the soft bigotry of low expectations.
But what ends up happening, And this is the problem with these red green alliances. And I say this somebody who comes more from the Burkeiyan tradition, So I don't you know, don't count me in as a progressive necessarily, but I'm a familiar enough with where progressives are coming from.
What that does is that it rases the history of every Palestinian woman who thinks they should have rights and own property and serve in juries that they you know, like it is it assumes that a group of violent authoritarian fanatics speaks for an entire population, when in fact they they terrorize the population they purport to speak for.
And that's the story, that's the real moral failing of the modern left that has made Palestinianism their primary cause aside An in addition to the fact that Palestinianism if for at least their allies on the ground, their version of Palestinianism is not to build a new state of Palestine where everybody is free, despite you know, some of the marketing materials, but it's to nick game the existing Jewish state and replace it with, you know, an Islamic caliphate. I have no tolerance.
Well, and that's become kind of and yeah, I was just going to say that's the other shared enemy is Israel, but more broadly the Jews. I think honestly, at this point it's become pretty synonymous when you're saying those things that like, oh, I just you know Israel, Well, Israel has become a proxy for the imperialist demon that these people don't like. But it does. I think it has. I mean, as you said at the end of your your two parter you talked about I believe I wrote
this down. You call them Committee's new suckers, specifically those who identify with the right that that is the Tucker car the world, yes, and the brown green or for some reason green brown just sounds better to me. I don't know why. It's an aesthetic thing. But yeah, and I've seen people claim and I'm sure you've seen this too, especially on X, that that well Tucker suddenly a leftist, and I've always like and I'm like, I get it if you only pay attention to the red green Alliance
stuff that is out there. It's well covered territory, but I think it misses the mark. And I think the best way to sort of understand this green brown, brown, green alliance is too well one to look at the history of such alliances, which is, you know, pretty extensive. I mean, I don't know if you've heard of figures like David Mayat or Auchmed Hubert, Aukmed Huber, especially because he had some he was wrapped up in the funding of al Qaeda in the early two thousands.
I don't know.
Yeah I can, yeah, I can. I can send you some links to stuff about him. Is really interesting because he was well, he actually met the Grand Muffie of Rusalomjajamin al Husseini in Beirut after he had converted in the sixties. Oh for him, yeah, exactly. But yeah, he's he was a Swiss national. I think he died in two thousand and five or something like that in his eighties.
But he had originally been part of the I guess you could say, the proto Red Green Alliance and had become disillusioned with you know, Western imperialism as you do back in the day, and then he started to make contacts with these groups in the Middle East. But then
he became a convert. And then interestingly, his transformation was a reverse where after becoming a convert and palating around with Nasser in Egypt, he started to become really close with far right groups in Europe, including the Lapenz Party and the Neo Nazi Party in Germany, and forgetting the name of it, the one that is that got sidelined by af D regardless though he's just a good example
of that. But my original point is that I think that when you really want to understand the Green Brown Alliance, all you got to do is look at the Muffty and his alliances. Yeah, with the Third Reich, that is, in my opinion, still very underrated as far as a corner of Third Reich history, and I think it's thankfully becoming corrected over time. I think I'd like to think that people like you and I are helping with that
when we talk about him. But I think that there is this element of there is a missing link I think in understanding the sort of velvet gihad, as I call it, of Islamism, because it finds venues on the left, as we know, but it also finds venues on the right, with people like Tucker Carlson and you know, his sort of circle of paleo conservative influencers these days. And I don't know, I'm just I'm going on here. I want to let you respond on that.
Paule understand where Tucker is coming from, sure, And my take on this is that it's almost funny because what's Tucker's like? If you look at Tucker's speech at Amfest in December, he has a peroration where he explains the difference between there are magas in our coalition and then
it's America First. So he's mister America First. Now let's leave aside troubled history of that phrase or slogan, But if you're America first, what are you doing with interviewing the Iranian president, the kind of figurehead atop a regime that's killed so many Americans. If you're America First, why do you take Russian propaganda at face value. If you're I mean, like you just go through the list.
If you're America first, why do you want to buy property and guitar all of a sudden.
Yeah right, I mean that was a troll, but like exactly like if you're America first, So what I sort I almost like welcome, Like, okay, you want to have a convers station about who loves the country more I Tucker, I love the country far more than you. You You you suck up to our enemies, and you are you spout their propaganda. That's so I find that to be.
I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of people who are going to agree with it, I think, but the way to look at the problem of Tucker is there's always going to be an audience on the Internet, especially but in America too. I mean, we've always had cranks and conspiracy theorists and people who believe all kinds of wild things. The difference is that they weren't influential
in helping the president select his running mate. So as long as I mean, if Tucker wants to run an Alex Jones show, you know where he talks about Chemtrail's and UFOs and the Jews with several o's instead of e W. Then hey, man, like it's like, go knock yourself out. I just don't. I just think we have to say if that's if that's who you are, then you cannot be, uh, you know, part of the Republican Party. Now maybe I'm wrong, maybe that there are more of him than there are of me, but I doubt it.
I think most Republicans, and there's a lot of polling. There was a great Manhattan Institute study in December that came out that backs this up. Basically, if if you like the the issue is most most Republicans, you know that they weren't born yesterday. They know about the hostage crisis, they know the role the Ironans Iranians played against our troops. And he's always talking about like I'm just in touch with the average you know, Americans. You know, we don't
You're not gonna fight Israel's wars. Yeah, but like you're you're just glossing over. You never mentioned the fact that you know, you're you're like sucking up to people who were killing our guys in those wars. So well, you know, and also by the way it's it's very insulting. I also know a lot of vets. I've covered wars. I mainly covered the Iraq War, and I was there several times.
It's insulting to tell somebody who fought a war, who saw what they saw and understood that they were fighting, you know, the remnants of a fascist Craisim and you know, a fanatic Islamist insurgency that oh, you're just fighting Israel's war. You're you're a sucker, you fought a worthless war of choice. When they know that when they secured a neighborhood, they could see with their own eyes in a lot of cases that there weren't suicide bombers, you know, going into marketplaces,
and they weren't you know, that kind of thing. And so I've just always like, you know, there is a thing because you know, I didn't serve in the military, but I again, I spent a lot of time covering wars. But I think there is a kind of fear, because we do have a volunteer military to ever kind of engage in these questions that you can't just concede if if you just see the argument that like, oh no,
you're bringing up the military Harry service thing. I guess whatever you say, okay, for the troops, it's deeply offensive to people who fought in a volunteer army, in a volunteer force wars that you know, one can disagree with, one can come out of, and saying you know that it was a mistake, we should have never gone in. That's fine, that's not what I'm talking about. But then't to say, you know what you are, You're a sap. You you fought a war for no reason. You were
manipulated by these people. That's an old argument. Actually, it goes back to the thirties. Uh it before that, Yeah, I.
Was saying Smedley Butler.
Sedley Butler is the one, and he wrote a book about He's a former Marine colonel who got caught up at one point in a coup against Roosevelt.
I did. I did a fair I actually did an episode about him and about the business plot and uh yeah, war as a racket and the thing is like it was a very interesting sort of just a quick aside. I just thought it was really interesting his activities as an American imperialist in air quote there though actually wouldn't say it was air quotes that was under Woodrow Wilson.
It was pretty pretty imperialist time, if you want to call it that, and the Banana Wars specifically down in the Caribbean and Central America, that those experiences led him to be the exact wrong guy for the business plotters to go to him. I still don't understand why they did, but you know, they they seem to think he was the guy because he was a populist, but they picked
the patriot instead of a trader. But unfortunately, his understandable cynicism about the American way of doing things overseas has influenced, as you said, for decades the critiques of going to war, which are you can't make that they don't make sense across time, like every war is different. People can make a case for or against any war for all they want, but at the end of the day, they it's it's
going to be a case by case basis. And as you said, it is insulting to especially when it's a volunteer army, to say that you know, you're a set. I mean, I have friends who are in the Marine Corps that hate people like Tucker Carlson for that very reason.
So right, you know, yeah, no, so yeah, that's that's what I'm saying. And I just find that like, in some ways, because we live in a country now that's so stratisfied that most Americans don't know people serve in the military, that that just becomes like kind of an argument or discussion ender. And my view is, no, it should. No, it's not it should. I mean, I don't know, like I disagree, but anyway, in a weird way, I was much more worried about Tucker Carlson like four or five
months ago than I am now. I just think he's made a series of incredibly stupid decisions and that he's in the process of marginalizing him himself. And I don't know, like for me, if you want to what's the waterloo of the Gropers Dropers, what's their waterloo? Their waterloo is that video that came out two or three weeks ago with them going in Miami playing the Kanye song Hell Hitler. Yeah, yeah, first of all, and then people started going through and
they're like saying, wait a second, all these people. I have no problem with people or who are gay, by the way, I'm not, But I'm just saying if you're.
A gay Mexican.
Yeah, the gay Mexican. Like I'm like, you know, he's like, oh no, no't bring the women over. And I'm just like, okay, guys, First of all, you're not doing it right, like if you want to do the douchey you know, misogynist dudes in a club, None of you look comfortable right now. All of you look ridiculous.
And yeah, we're talking about Nick Fentes, by the way, in case people didn't pick up, yeah, exactly.
And it's like, how yeah.
Well, there's so many memes about how Hitler would have killed himself all over again if he saw who.
Was there was that great downfall meme that came out where they were talking. Yeah, yeah, I'm just like, okay, I think that that's like, you know, what's the phrase that's Fonzie jumping the shark on happy Days? That's like, right, yeah, no longer kind of that cool anymore.
Well, and it's hard to really understand, like how sincere a lot of this is. I mean, I'm sure you've heard people. People have probably asked you is Tucker serious or is he whatever? And and I've actually just started listening to the new book that just came out by Jason Zengerly.
I think, oh yeah, he's an old friend, and I'm looking forward to reading that.
It's I'm blasting through it because it's really compelling stuff. But it also might go over a lot of territory you know already because it's you know, goes back. But but as you said, though, it's a little different, and I agree that there does seem to be a bit of a muted nature to that sphere, the Tucker Carlson sphere, And I think maybe, as you said, that Waterloo for the Groebers might have actually kind of ruined the party for the people who are trying to be quote unquote
high iq anti Semites. And and as you said, it's a little different though, even with this like diminishing seemingly diminishing influence or luster that he is helping, he did, as you said, helped select the vice president, you know, and that's all sting in somebody who is, as far as I know, he died in the wole quote unquote postliberal as he would call himself, and somebody who very clearly has very little regard for the Constitution, very little
regard for liberal norms. Hence the name postliberal. He seems to love indulging in the you know, uh, the Catholic integralist types like for Mule and Denin and so forth. So in that sense, I kind of understand why. And I'm not saying JD. Vance has done this, because as
far as I know, he hasn't. But when it comes down to, uh, like, why would someone on the right support Islamists like Tucker seems to, or at least seem to be doing in twenty twenty five, you know, glowing up the Taliban's drug rehab program, for example, or talking about how Shariah sounds like an amazing thing, or the fact that submission sounds like an amazing principle for a
religious society. I can see why someone in the post liberal camp or the so called America First camp, who might have a religious tendency on the level of Tucker would be fans of something like Islamism because it's you know, a shared value of theocracy and a shared again distrust or hatred of Israel.
And well, he has said as much. He says like, oh, I can't leave my Lamborghini and no one will steal it, and.
Yeah, exactly, you know, it's like, yes, everyone in Gatar is a Lamborghini, that's exactly how it works.
Or like his whole thing about well, you know, look at all the Christian Church and like there are no Christian churches in fucking Saudi Arabia. Moron. Yeah, and you look at oh, they're looking at all the Christians in Qatar, and they're all guest workers who aren't who don't have the citizenship rights. They're easily checkable facts, which is why it's like it's yes, you know, this is like maybe
it sounds smart for if you're totally uninformed. And I think he's getting a lot of mileage out of the fact that and he was attacked in the late twenty teens by the left. They were hysterical and they were wrong, so you know they I don't agree. By the way, I'm a big My view is that like America as a concept, one of its great strength is that we are a magnet for genius from all over the world. So I like, I'm not open borders, and I'm not you know, I think in citizenships should mean something and
borders should mean something. So I'm not coming at this from like the George Soros left but I also think that one of the great things about our country is that like you know, have a big wall with a with a with a giant door, like let people in who are going to renew and and and bring their genius to create jobs and enrich our great country. That's a big part of what America is. Everybody nobody is really from here. Everybody came here. But that said, if
you're if, you're when. But when Tucker would say, you know this, there's a there's a strategic reason as to why Democrats are open borders now because they think they're bringing in all these new voters. Democrats were saying that he was quoting them. This was the theory of the case in you know, especially Obama's second term, that the browning of America meant that like maybe this was the
end of the Republican Party. There was a lot of triumphalism that was based on these kind of demographic changes. So when they would say, aha, the replacement theory, you're a white nationalist, you're a Nazi. I was somewhat sympathetic to Tucker, even though I kind of disagreed with that argument. So I'm just saying he was getting a lot of mileage out of that. He's getting a lot of mileage out of what might be called elite conspiracy theories.
It's self reinforcing in a sense.
Right, But he it turns out he himself is a conspiracy theorist for real. And you know now now we all can can see it. So anyway, there you go.
Right, Yeah, And and I you know, I will defer to you on your judgments on how what what. I mean, No one knows what's in his heart, obviously, but I mean clearly he's indulged in a lot of jew baiting, I'll say, in a lot of ways.
I mean, I mean, he's he's the worst in that regard.
I mean, yeah, And I don't know how tactical that is or how sincere that is. As you said, he's conspiratorial. And as you know, every conspiracy theory ends one place, and that actually was kind of one thing. I mean, if we have we have a little bit more time here as.
Well as Trump, Trump's a conspiracy theorist and he is true.
So yeah, I mean I think having a son in law, a Jewish son in law, might help a little bit.
But yeah, but you're right, you're generally right yes, yeah.
I mean well, and I was going to say, that's the thing about conspiracy theories always ending with Jews is that there does seem to be this, Like I said, the common thread between these alliances is is the shared hatreds, And the more extreme it gets in these alliances, the more it gets fixated on Jews, usually by proxy through
something like Israel. But I guess, like what I'm wondering is like, is that just kind of inevitable when it comes to relatively radical ideologies because they they need conspiracy theories to function? That seems to be the sense I'm getting the more I study it, And I'm wondering because of that, does that just is that sort of what makes anti Semitism kind of an inevitaby, I don't know.
I don't know that radical movements necessarily need conspiracy theories. Okay, I think that radical movements need I mean, there's a have you read The True Believer by Eric Hoffer?
I have, yes, I should read it again, which is.
A great book, and I actually it's an amazing list. Like I want to do a breaking history on him because he was fascinating because he's.
Like a long Shorman selfman yeah.
And he's somebody who is himself. I love Autodidas. I think it's a great American tradition. He himself like kind of becomes an intellectual outside of the university, which I really love stories of that. But Eric Hoffer thinks of like his as you know in that book. What he says is you get revolutionary moments when a group of people experience a kind of rapid, you know, plummeting of
their wealth and status. That's a revolutionary moment. I think, like when that happens, yes, one can't let me part Like this a conspiracy theory, if you believe in conspiracy theory, is that there is a hidden hand. It is simultaneously personally empowering because you know something that all of the sheep don't see. But it's also an acknowledgment of powerlessness. So what's the point of writing an op ed or joining a protest or voting or any of the things
that we do in open, liberal democratic society. Ease if you see that the whole game is rigged. Follow where I'm going with this, Alex. So yeah, you know, so, like, yes, I understand that there is a kind of a link there. But if you want to be a successful radical, you can't give into that because radicalism at a certain level kind of at least if you're if you take it seriously, like you're like, all right, well I believe these things we need drastic action, but I got to do it
like I'm going to be the change. Whereas if you really believe in conspiracy theories, it's like, well, what's the what how could I possibly compete with, you know, the cabal and their black helicopters?
Right, yeah, and and so in that sense, then because a lot of the time in history Jews have been turned into scapegoats, that that tends to become part of the the explanation for why something doesn't work out in a sense, and that like why would I compete, as you said, because they own the media so called so to speak? Right?
Is that usually that one if you look at the coverage of Israel and like the New York Times, I was gonna say, I'm like, I am a conspiracy theorist. I like, I wish these Jews would stop running the media. I mean, I'm Jewish, but like you know what I'm saying, it's like, really, like you think that that's the Jewish conspiracy. Come on, like, give me a break. This is great man. I'll have me on any time, and keep doing what
you're doing. I want to encourage everybody to listening to what you're doing and keep an ear out for Breaking History season two coming in May, where you'll you're free press subscribe you'll get all the episodes at all at once, or you'll have to wait, you know, and then we're gonna be dropping some bonus content here and there.
Well, and that was gonna close by asking you what was in store for Breaking History, so you just.
I don't want to give up the topic. It's but it's a good one.
Sure, okay, I'm looking forward to it. Thanks a lot of you live all right, thank you.
He used to talk in all right deathlike glow, mister cable guy, but he got bored of the same old fight.
Now he's chasing storms and the dead up night. He ran one bread and he.
Lost his head baby water, what a right?
Oh tuck up, Tucker, did you do?
I love it the dream Now it's having you come tell me in heart gone law off.
The deep end track you you ran so funes and your left the get back.
Tuck up to by you man, you're kissing the crown at the cuts against the Labe. He wants us rules, ropes and stern old man as long as the skull in his old best friends, every wild take it, he says.
That's my jam.
If it's scares you, mom, he says, that's who I am.
You'll cheer any drone just to stand a lone money.
That's all a mess.
So tuck up, Tucker, did you do fell in love with the Feaver dream?
Now?
It's noting you.
Come carry and walk on up off the deep en tracks. You you're in so far reason you'll nerve to get back.
Tucker boy, you lost your mom.
He'll kiss any crown at the cuts against the lie.
Said that's kind of scary.
He said, that's why I'm so into any baby, he said, discounts extreme, He said, exactly, that's the dream.
Oh, Tucker, talker, did you do that? Love? But the dream now it's having you come carry and honk of the deepen track. You your insult.
And you'll never forget back Tucker.
Oh, you lost your life? Your cheer any root long made checks the time yo, talk up Talker gone too far? Talk up Tucker's spin around that twisted stop.
To all Right, that was an awesome conversation. Many thanks again to Eli Lake for making the time, carving it out of his obviously very busy schedule to talk to me about the Red Green Brown Alliance, so to speak, and everything that's been going on with Iran, both past and present, and all the other things that we touched on. Anyway, like I said, I really appreciate him coming on and I'm really excited for more conversations like that this year.
In twenty twenty six, I actually have another one on tap. It's a very very exciting surprise, I think for a lot of you listening, and that'll be coming very soon. Before I wrap us up here, I want to give some shout outs to the people who have been supporting History Impossible over on Patreon or sub stack at the
comrades and friends level or above. These people include Bob Downing, Sam Graham, Greg Hunter, Brian Joy, Soo, Skip Pachaco, Molly Pan, John Pisano on Our, PJ Raider, Matthew m Rice, Philip Rice, Emily Schmidt, Pire Vupuni, and f you. All of these people are amazing, amazing folks who are willing to I don't know, just like carve a little bit out of their budget to help me do what I'm doing here, and I really appreciate it. I cannot stress that enough.
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