¶ Creating a Great Candidate Experience
You're listening to The Hire Calling Podcast , your source for all things hiring , staffing and recruiting . I'm Pete Newsome , joined once again today by Ricky Baez . Ricky , how are you ?
Pete , I am energetic and excited . I can tell I love it . I had coffee like four cups , so I am . Yeah , I'm going to crash this afternoon , all right .
But we get the benefit of what it's doing for you in the meantime . So we'll take it and then let your wife and son worry about how you are .
That's right .
That's their problem later on . Exactly , exactly . But in the meantime we're going to focus on what makes a good candidate experience , or I dare say , a great candidate experience . That's something you know a little bit about , right .
That is something that's near and dear to my heart and I'm very passionate about . I'm trying to contain my excitement with the amount of caffeine I have right now . Don't , don't hold back , let it fly , got it ? I love this topic because we get to bog down .
We as an organization , we get to bog down at finding the candidate , putting the processes in place and not enough time , and focusing and giving them that great candidate experience . So I think that is a small arm of branding that is an important piece of organization really need to pay attention to .
Well , we know that for every candidate who's hired , it's going to be a lot of candidates that aren't , so that is as important a part of this as anything else . So let's just let's just talk about what a candidate experience is . How would you define it ?
How would I define a candidate experience ? Well , I mean , I hate to use the word to define it , but it is what you know , what is . It's what the candidate goes through . That gives the candidate Maybe the employer doesn't realize that gives the candidate the same type of information that you , as an employer , get from the candidate in the interview process .
That that first step , that first step in building that foundation with that candidate , is crucial , because if you don't build it right , that candidate may make up their mind about jumping ship to come to you before you even thinking about making an offer to them .
Well , I think I think you're correct , right that every interaction you have matters , and to me , the candidate experience is defined in the eyes of the candidate , right ? It is their perception of how those interactions go .
And so the main thing for me with all of this is you have to be conscious of that going in , you have to commit to being conscious of it , and if you are and you do that , then odds are it's going to be a great experience . If you're not , well , probably the opposite .
So that's to me why it's so important , because if you're not thinking about it , it's easy to quickly forget about the candidates who aren't at the top of your list , and that's a common complaint about recruiters .
We all know that that they're not as communicative as candidates would like , they're not responsive , and it's always the candidates who aren't at the top of the list , right , it's easy to like the most attractive candidate in the room , right , we know that that's who gets the attention , but that's not how your reputation is going to be built .
That is not what's going to leave a great , lasting impression . So you've got to think about all of this in advance .
And Pete , here's how I look at it . If you are an organization , in your interview in five candidates for one position , five for one . At the end of that process , here's what you're going to you no longer have five candidates , you have one employee and four marketing campaigns .
That's right , that's what you have , and you got to make sure your marketing campaigns has the right tools to tell the story to other people you want them to know about your organization . Do not skip on the people who don't get the job . They're going to talk about you .
Or you have four glass door reviews you don't want .
Exactly .
Which is which is which is real . We know that happens and when it comes to those those kind of reviews or conversations that people will have , it's never the ones in the middle , right , it's the ones that have the best experiences or the worst . Those are what your , your marketing is going to be really good or really bad . No one's ever reviews .
Yeah , it does review and say it was okay , it was just as I expected . Yeah , it's not filled with a lot of marginal reviews . Right , it's fives or ones for the most part , which is it's human nature . So , but we can control it , right , that's the good news . Um , like , like so many things in life , you can control what you pay attention to .
So let's start at the top . What are the things that make a good candidate experience ? Let's list them out , or do you want to clear ?
Communication from the very , very beginning . Pete , to me , recruiting and onboarding go hand in hand , and I just did an onboarding class a couple of weeks ago and the first question I asked is when does onboarding start ? And people say , oh , with the offer letter . Is what they accept ? No , it starts as soon as they apply for the job .
And as soon as they apply for the job , you got to start telling your story clear and frequent communication of what the candidate is going to respect . The more they know about your interview process , the less likely they're going to ghost you , because they know what to expect . Right , and there's a little attachment to it .
If they see you as just a number , is easy to drop that number off and go to the next interview .
That's exactly right and you know . Start with your leverage your website , put the information out there for the candidates and you mentioned in the interview process . Make it clear , set a tone and an expectation being in staffing . We ask all the time .
We encounter every type of process that exists , from one phone interview , you know , in an offer , to multiple interviews and panels , and very complex , drawn out processes . We like the former better than the latter , for the record , everyone does , but the most important thing is to know , and if we don't know , then we can't prepare the candidate for it .
So that is something that staffing companies learn very quickly , but I don't know that organizations always think about that , and even though they should , you have to prepare the candidate from all the way to the finish line , right , and so then there's no need to apologize , there's no confusion , and so that setting the tone right from the start is huge .
There's the best way to put it . When you get into your car , you go in somewhere you don't know , you go to your GPS , you put it , you punch the information of the GPS and you follow it . You have to be the candidate's GPS and let them know what they're going to expect .
One interview , two interviews , three interviews Pete , I once went through five interviews . It was annoying , it wasted my time and I would have been upset if I didn't get that job . But I know three other candidates went through five interviews and they didn't get the job Right .
Right . Those are the ones who do get upset , right , it's , no one likes to go to an interview and not have an offer . We know that . But odds are , it's going to happen to everyone throughout their career , probably multiple times . That's the deal . But the sooner you can let a candidate know that they're not in consideration , the better .
So try to avoid those long interview processes . Every situation is different . That's a topic for a different podcast and probably one that we should do to talk about that in detail . But let's just keep this concise and say the shorter your interview process , the better the candidate experience is going to be . Right , that's . I don't think anyone would dispute that .
But we know that organizations don't think about that as much as they should .
They don't . Because I guess the old mentality is you should just be happy that you're interviewing . I mean , yes , that's true , but right now , don't give people the illusion that they have options . Make your process so valuable . They don't look anywhere else .
So , yes , let's keep it concise , because , although you don't want your time wasted , that street has a two-way street they don't want their time wasted as well , especially the top caliber people . The top caliber people are not going to have the patience for a loose process . Why ? Because they know they have an option to go somewhere else .
Way better that the process is tightened up . Yeah , so it's also how concise , how well oiled your process is is going to attract the type of candidate you want to employ .
Absolutely . And look , you build relationships through this process and the goal is to build ones that leave a good , lasting impregnation , as you said earlier , not just for the marketing aspect of it . But you may want to hire your second choice at some point , your third choice , if your first option doesn't accept .
I was just playing pickleball last night , if you can believe that . My newfound hobby , pickleballs , your newfound hobby , yeah , and one of the guys I was playing with happened to just make an offer to a candidate today or yesterday and said that the candidate asked for 60 days before they could start .
And it was such an interesting conversation because I thought , wow , boy , that's a great way to have things fall apart at the end . So they've been through all of this and now the candidate springs this . So I'll tell you there's an expectation that the candidates need to be consistent with delivering that information up front .
But you want to build these reputations or these relationships as you go . So no one's surprised , right ? I mean , that is that's something .
I'm surprised right now Somebody asked for two months .
Two months before I can start and we know that time kills deals . But as you're building these relationships , you want to understand the candidate's personal situation and motivations and drivers . That's a huge part of it . So you're on the same page , because we really want it to be a everyone needs to be happy at the end with the good , and that's the goal .
So Well , I was going to say can I calibrate on something ? Because I want to make sure the audience understands what we're seeing right For the people who are out there listening from a candidate's perspective . The reason we're saying that ? Because , pete , they're probably thinking that's not unreasonable . I want time to make sure that I'm making the right choice .
From an employer's perspective , that's 60 days without a position there where they're losing money . So if you're thinking about this from a candidate perspective , thinking that's not unreasonable , it is kind of unreasonable because we as an organization we are losing money for every minute that position is not there making money .
And to ask for eight weeks of time , that's just eight weeks of unproductivity that the organization is just may not tolerate . I'm sorry I don't have any organization that'll say yes to that .
Well , I won't . I won't name names , but this organization wasn't having it . I'll say Got it so but . But . But there's expectations and I'll I'll say , obligations on both sides of this .
So if you go into the interview as a candidate , I think you should assume Now I'm going to , I'm going to change that you should don't try not to assume anything on either side . And in Once again , being in staffing , we know what questions need to be asked , because our goal is to make a match and a connection that is going to last .
Every staffing company should operate that way , so we know the pitfalls , and time of the thing stretching out is one of those . So of course , we encourage our clients to shorten their interview process and be concise with it , but the main thing is again to know same thing with the candidates Do you have vacations planned ?
Are there any reasons that you won't be available for the foreseeable future or through that interview process ? Because if we've already done our job on the front end , we know how long it's going to take , we know what the plan is , we match that with the candidate and sometimes often in fact you could have the best candidate on the market potentially .
But if they're not aligned with the availability for interviews and the timing , it's not going to work . So the more you know up front , the better .
I could talk all day about that because it's such a critical part of the recruiting process , but for this purpose , be concise , communicate it and get everyone on the same page , Alright so now for improving the candidate experience in the recruitment process .
Pete , have you ever read a job description that was like eight pages long ?
No , because nobody would .
Well , I read it because I'm like what about this ? I'm still looking for something to say wow , this was worth it . Folks , if you really want , if you really want to attract people , please do not copy and paste a job description in the ad . Don't do it , because what you're doing there is think about it .
If you're going down an Isle of Public , app at a public , so you want to buy macaroni and cheese , but you see the box of macaroni and cheese , all you have is listed as ingredients Some of the words you're not going to understand , right , you're not going to buy it .
But if you see the picture of a nice bowl of creamy gold and mac and cheese , you're going to buy that . Right , the ingredients . It's your job description . The picture is your ad that you put out there . You've got to make that ad enticing and you got to make that ad something that compels the candidate to apply , tell a story behind it and make the process
¶ Improving the Candidate Experience
easy . Pete , I cannot tell you , when I was interviewing back in the day , how many times I was asked to submit a resume and then I had to turn back around , spend 40 minutes filling all the information over again . Right , I stopped . I'm like I'm not going to put up with this and go somewhere else .
Yeah you have to put up with that at your doctor's office . You don't have to put up with that as a candidate . I like that .
You're not giving me a colonoscopy today . I just want an interview . I'm not going to put this in there Exactly .
So , yeah , simplify it . There's just because software systems and applicant tracking systems now that exist and all these tools , just because you can do it doesn't mean you should Got that right . And so , if you're thinking about the candidates experience and put yourself in their shoes , I mean that's the easiest way to do it . What would you want to go through ?
Would you want to be , you know , accountable for filling out all that information more than once ? No , of course not . No one likes that . We all know what it feels like to have entered 10 things on a phone and then have the rep pick up live and ask you for the same information , right when you call your bank or a good one , right ?
Yeah , it's the worst right . So don't do that with candidates . Make it easy for them , make it easy to apply , communicate early and often in the process , and give them your attention along the way .
So that's the next thing that I think we should talk about , because Candidates are going to decide whether to take a job not just based on compensation or what the work is or the title .
They're going to decide based on how they feel about the opportunity , and if they don't feel that they're important , they're not going to move forward , and so you have to give them your attention and focus throughout this process and let them know that they're valuable Folks .
This is I hate to put it this way . This is a relationship you go and eat harmony I'm not even going to say Tinder , but you go and eat harmony and all these other places . Right , we're planning a fish where you want to find that , that , that spouse , that significant other . You've got to do your best to communicate with them .
Let them know why this is a good idea , right ? So same thing here . If you , as an organization , are not constantly communicating with the candidates , somebody else will . And when somebody else will , then they leave . And then you're wondering why they didn't finish the process ?
Because of lack of communication , lack of engagement , and the more engaged a candidate is in the process , the more likely they're going to see it through the end . Absolutely , that's a fact .
Yeah , and , like you said , it's earlier , it's a . You never know when the candidates going to come back to you . It's a round world . So if they're not your choice , tell them as soon as you know . People don't like delivering bad news . It's human nature . We all know that no one likes to . I I .
There's nothing worse for me in in as a staffing professional than having to terminate a candidate who doesn't deserve it . Right and and for budget changes or organizational shifts , whatever it might be . It's an inherent part of the job . We all know that's what we signed up for . I've been doing this for a long time and guess what ? It never gets easier .
Never , it never gets easier . You have to do it . But it's awful . But do it because the sooner you do it , the better it is for everyone . You'll feel better as an individual who had to make that call , but you'll leave the right impression . Bad news early is good news , absolutely it always is from you .
I got that from you .
I use that every day , no one else . It was smarter .
Early is good news . It's , it's true , because the more you leave them hanging folks , the more different ideas go in their head and the ideas are going to be negative . Remember , they're going to talk about you over dinner . How they talk about you , it's exactly up to you and how you create this experience .
And yeah , and I'll go even once up further If you're going to keep , if you're going to tell them you'll keep them in mind for future openings . Actually keep them in mind for future openings . Have a system for that . Make sure you do it . But don't say it if you don't mean it . It's okay , right , people need .
It's the information they need to hear , even though it's what they don't want to hear . We're not a good fit for the this organization . If you're never going to be , tell someone why . Right , do them a favor , help them improve .
There are things that happen in an interview that will prevent a candidate from ever getting hired by an organization , or at least while those individuals are still there . I mean I we don't need to go into specific examples right now , but it happens , right , people don't always perform well in an interview . It's okay , good , thank you , wonderful .
If you don't want to be left wondering . If you don't have to either , and because if you don't know why you burned any chance of ever being successful with that company , you can't improve for the next one . Now , that's tough . It is not for everyone to do and not every situation is appropriate to do it in .
But , where possible , give candidates feedback , do it as quickly as you can if they're not going to be your selection , and then move on , because as the interviewer you may end up somewhere else one day . You may be in it . It is a round world . I could give lots of examples .
I'm glad you're not saying flat , I'm okay . As long as you're not saying flat , I'm okay . There are people , but you know what ?
But let me say this above I got an above and beyond for that , because one of the things I like to do with my clients when I'm helping them out with this is look , give them feedback , but send them some kind of a consolation price right Flowers , edible arrangements , something . Put that in your budget .
Think about what that does to the psyche of the person who didn't get the job . Think about how motivated that person is gonna be for the next opportunity they get , because they're gonna tell everybody look at how they treated me and I didn't get the job . Could you imagine if I got it ? What story does that say about you ? So think about
¶ Improving Candidate Experience and Feedback
that . And before people say that costs a lot of money marketing dollars , papa , that's all . It is right Not shut up to marketing dollars , because you want as many people out there who didn't get the job to talk as positive as possible about the experience .
Well , and yeah , you know you're serious when your Puerto Rican comes out , Rick , yeah that's right how we know , but Because I busted out the papa , that's right , but we do have to acknowledge it , that's not always practically .
Can't send everyone flowers as much as you'd like .
But you can send them a survey , you can ask for their input , you can ask for their feedback , and I know you're a big fan of surveys , so why don't you talk about that for a second ?
No , yes , but send them a survey . But never send the survey blind , right ? Because if you send the survey without talking it up , you're gonna get a lot of negative responses because the people are still reeling from the fact they didn't get the job right .
But if you call them and something I wanted to add , Pete , as soon as you give them a call , because , remember , the person doesn't know they didn't get the job . So when they get that call from you , right , Saying hey , they're gonna think , oh my God , I got it . Communicate early in the conversation . Hey , we selected somebody else .
And here's an important part the decision has already been made . I would like to give you some feedback . But , folks , if you don't say the decision has already been made , the candidate is gonna start thinking about wait , I missed this , I missed that . I still have a shot . They don't . This is not to negotiate .
This is just solely to give you feedback and ask them first . If they say , yeah , go for it , Then send that survey . You will get more accurate responses if you prime that survey with that conversation .
Yeah , ask them for their opinion and you can see it directly or you can see it on Glassdoor later .
I like that right . Either you see it by your own hand or you'll see what everybody else sees without your hand involved .
And we do see it publicly on job boards and you see it , people who have a bad experience want to vent .
They want to be heard and I expect and believe that in many cases , if they had an opportunity to vent directly to an organization , they would take that versus being public with it , especially if the organization cared enough to take that feedback to heart and do something about it .
Now I know as a staff and company owner that there are times that our candidates have a lesson , ideal interaction with one of our recruiters . Just the law of numbers dictate that , right . Yeah , that's true .
We put as many protections in place and training and our process to avoid that at all costs , right , but we're talking thousands of candidates a month that we interact with . So perception is reality .
So whether they should have a bad impression or not is irrelevant , but we know that happens and every once in a while I'll get a message from someone and I genuinely appreciate it . Now we get lots of . We get a lot more positive reviews significantly than we do negative ones , thank goodness , right , but I value the negative ones just as much .
If someone comes to us and says I don't appreciate the way this happened , I didn't like this Now , maybe something that we had no control over with our clients . But guess what I still want to know , because I take that feedback to our clients and that's usually how it happens . Again , thank goodness it's not a complaint with us . I didn't get feedback .
I was waiting , I had to wait too long and because in almost every case I'll tell you , what people have an issue with is when no one is communicating with them . That's right . It's never feedback like recruiter A was rude to me or disingenuous or whatever it might be . It's always I didn't hear . I was left hanging .
And if you look at the complaint on recruiters as a whole , that's it right . They don't get back to me .
So if you go in the opposite direction and you approach a candidate who wasn't selected and said , not only am I getting back to you , but I want to know what we could have done better on your behalf , they're going to appreciate it in a way that will set you apart from everyone else . I like that .
I like that . That's a great way to prime it . I wasn't even thinking about that right . Even have that communication , then say , hey , you're gonna get a survey , right ? Please let me know how we could have served you better . I'm going to start doing that , pete . I'm going to steal that from you . Well , it's , it's You're doing that .
You're not going to get it if you don't ask for it . That's what I mean . You might , but you'll you do . I don't know of an organization who wouldn't want to improve , and I don't know of an organization , whether it's Apple or or Amazon , the most successful organizations out there I have I have .
I'm sure that they still would like to improve and get better .
Absolutely .
So no one ever sits back and says we're good enough . So if you want the feedback and you'll actually use it ask for it , use a survey . We'll put some . We could go through a list of questions here . I'd rather just put them in the show notes , and so we'll . We'll do that , and so hit the link .
That will , that will add , and you can see that some questions there will recommend what you should put in your survey . So , ricky , let's , let's , let's , let's not Belabor this too much . But what else do you have , anything else for wrap up that you think could build a positive candidate experience ? What would you ? What ?
would you want to . At the end of the day , it's what I want . I'm not going to give any little tiny . I'm just going to give an idea Right At the end of the day . Put yourself in the mindset . Put yourself in the mindset on what your ideal candidate would want , what your ideal candidate would expect .
Forget the idea of people should be happy that they're interviewing . That doesn't exist anymore . People have options and if you want to attract your top tier candidates , you have to build the process in a way that attracts a top tier candidate and what they would or would not support .
So all I'm saying is put your mind in the person you're trying to attract and build the process surrounding that . That's never , ever going to steer you wrong . Just do your own .
Absolutely . There's two things that I want to add before we wrap . One is to if you , if you're , in a high volume situation . So there's different kinds of recruiting .
There's the high level recruiting , where you need to find one candidate who's very in a very niche role , so you're not going to be speaking and interacting with with too many people in that situation .
But then there's the opposite , where you may hire for a class of 20 plus people in a training where your candidate pool could be massive and you may have thousands of candidates . So take advantage of technology if you need to .
I mean , that is a big change from from when I started in the dark ages , ricky , where we didn't have automated tools , but now they're . They're prevalent , they're not overly expensive . So if you were in high volume recruiting , take advantage of that , because , look it's , I get it because I live it . You can't hold everyone's hand the way you want to .
You can't have personal interactions with thousands of candidates if you have a small recruiting team . It's not realistic . So shame on you if you don't take advantage of technology to reach out directly , because , as we've , I think , established very well , at this point the worst thing you can do is not communicate and so give , give people that .
And then the last thing I want to say is measure yourself , hold yourself accountable , make sure that you leverage technology and tools for that as well . Are you , have you responded to everyone ? How quickly are you responding to everyone ? Those are things that you should . You should measure and then manage to it , and and not cut any corns .
That's right , you said it best . I think if people , if people start the process like that , they're going to have a great , great pool of candidates to choose from and great marketing campaigns .
Can't forget that piece Absolutely there's . There's nothing better than a mouth yeah . Then then starting a new search and already knowing who your candidate pool is , who you can look to recruit because they're candidates you interacted with in the past .
And if , as a recruiter , I can tell you that there is absolutely nothing better than to say well , I'm going to fill this job quickly and easily because I already have candidates in mind from the last time . And that is up to you and your actions .
If you treat all of your candidates the right way , coming in , you'll , you'll be able to build that pipeline in that , in that , in that base to draw from the next time . And if you don't , well , recruiting is going to be a constant uphill battle for you .
You're always starting from scratch because you haven't built relationships along the way and everyone knows that no one . If I think of my candidate interactions over the years , as we say it already , most are not going to get hired , most applicants aren't going to get hired . Most candidates you call and recruit and source aren't going to get hired .
But you can have a lot of good relationships at last if you just treat them the right way and plan for it , that's right , it's .
And , by the way , for everybody listening eight and I'm sorry , pete , you don't know this , I'm going to throw this out there HR Florida is coming up here in in Florida , for those of you listening , in Florida , it's a huge HR conference at the end of August .
I'm speaking there and I'm going to speak about this , this very thing how to revamp your candidate experience to attract the best and the brightest in the future and keep them in the future . Right , perfect . This is what we're talking about right now . That's perfect .
We're going to end that session Watch , all right , good , we will , we'll put . Ricky can get us that info and we'll put it in the show notes as well for that too , so everyone can come out to HR Florida .
Roger , that Awesome . Thank you Appreciate that , Pete Well that's it for today .
Thank you for joining us . Drive safe , have a great weekend and we'll talk soon .
Candidate experience . Folks have a good one , all right , okay .
