¶ Understanding Employment Labor Laws and Misconceptions
Welcome back everyone . I'm speaking today with HR consultant Ricky Baez . Today's topic is employment labor laws . Ricky , how are you today ?
I am doing great Pete . How about you ?
I'm doing all right , but , man , I've got to tell you , as a business owner , this one hits really close to home , because when I started my company 20 years ago , one of the things that I struggled with was understanding employment , labor laws and where I'm even supposed to go to get information . Can we just start there ?
employment , labor laws and where I'm even supposed to go to get information . Can we just start there ? Absolutely so it's Pete , I'll tell you this Wikipedia is not it . Wikipedia is not it . Obviously , what comes to people's mind is you know , I can Google it .
Right , you can , but then you have to figure out what is credible information and what is not right . So one of the best ways that you can find out exactly what's out there , to keep your finger on the pulse , is go to official websites that vet this information . One of them is SHRMorg , the Society for Human Resource Organizationorg .
That's a very good organization and you can trust that any information they put out . They're very good at putting new laws and new statutes out there that affect employment and labor law . That way everybody knows about it . They are really good at making sure that not only they communicate it , but it's understood for anybody that's not an attorney .
So I would say SHRM would be the best place to go . That's number one . The second one , because I've got three of them . The second one is go to conferences . Conferences is one of the best ways to share knowledge . You got people from all over the world that come to one area to talk about the same topic , being attacked by 25,000 different points of view .
So you can go ahead and just make sure that you go to a conference and send somebody to a conference and bring that information back into the office . The third , and I think it's the easiest one get a consultant .
It's just easier to get a consultant to come in who will go to those conferences and will make sure that these new laws and these new statutes are applied to your business appropriately , because that HR consultant will know your business . So that is the best way to stay on top of the new changes .
Now , ricky , as an HR guy , I know this may surprise you , but I'm probably not going to conferences learning about labor laws . I know we all like to spend our time that way , but it's not practical for everyone . So there's constant changes . We know that with the law .
If I don't have a consultant and I agree with you , by the way , and that's how you and I know each other , of course , because I lean on you for this information but if I didn't have you , where could I go to keep up with changes ? Or what's maybe a better way to ask is what's a strategy for keeping up with changes in labor laws ?
You go to the EEOC website and then you submit your email . That way you get these updates . Here's the problem with that , pete your email . That way you get these updates . Here's the problem with that , pete . Right it's . I would advise it . But the problem is it's they put the actual law out there , right ?
You're going to need somebody to translate that from legalese to make sense to the average business owner , because it's , at the end of the day , the law . Does not care whether the owner understands the law or not . It is up to the owner , the business owner , and it's their responsibility to understand what the law means . So that's going to cost you more money .
Right ? Because either you spend the time to filter through everything to see what applies to you , or you get an attorney to do it that's not going to be cheap or you get an HR consultant to do it . So the best way , if you're not going to have a consultant out there , just go into those different websites .
And , of course , those websites really depend on how big your business is . Right , because some people think just because they got 10 employees , the laws don't apply . They kind of do right , every level with a 10 , 15 , 20 , even 50 employees , you got different laws that apply to you . That's why I'm saying the best thing to do is get a consultant .
But in the absence of that , you just got to make sure you subscribe to those known websites shermorg , the eeocgov or dolgov . That will definitely help you out .
Ricky , today's video is filled with surprising things . First we learned not every business owner wants to go to HR conferences , and now I have to say not everyone , not the government . That isn't always clear in their information . So you know these things are surprising to everyone , but let's talk about a different kind of surprise misconceptions of labor laws .
What do you see that's commonly misunderstood out there ?
The biggest one and I don't know if this will surprise you or not is people's understanding of employment at will . Man , let's spend some time on that . People think employment at will and right to work are the same thing . They're not Two very different things . So right to work has more to do with unions , right Employment at will .
At the end of the day , what that means is it says that you , as an employer , can fire anybody for whatever reason . That's not protected by law . The biggest misconception is people don't read that last part . That's not protected by law right Now .
At the same time , an employee now I'm talking about an employee , not a contractor can leave the organization for no reason whatsoever . 49 out of 50 states in the United States are employment at will . Montana is the only state that is not employment at will . You need a reason both ways .
So that to me , that is the biggest misconception and here's what we need to do with that . And here's what I tell all my clients , because they ask me Ricky , if I can fire anybody for any reason , that's not protected by law . Why are you always telling me to document , document every conversation , document every infraction ?
The reason you should document it is because if you , as an employee , you fire somebody . So , for example , for this particular example , pete , you and I work together , right , and you fire me because I'm a man . I mean you would never do that , right . And you fire me because I'm a man . I mean you would never do that right .
But you fire me because I'm a man , right and it's . Or , better yet , you fire me for no reason , no reason whatsoever . I go to the EEOC , I file a complaint and I say he fired me because I'm a guy . Again , that will never happen with just an example , the EEOC . Then they're going to ask you so why did you fire him ? What are you going to say ?
What are you going to say ? So now you're stuck right . You want to have a reason documented , because if you don't have a reason , you're going to spend a lot of legal dollars trying to prove yourself right . At the end of the day , you're going to end up on the right side of the law , but it's going to cost you 20 grand in legal fees .
Save the money and just document the entire process and you should be good .
Let me give you a little twist on that with a question . Let's say I fired you because you were consistently late for work . You know , it , I know it , everyone else on the team knows it , but then you go and make a claim and say I fired you because of age discrimination , for example .
Okay .
Now , is it safe to say that I'm probably going to win that lawsuit , but I may have to spend a lot of money to get there ? Is that why documentation is so important ?
That's correct . It is . And the reason you are going to be okay is because the burden of proof is on me . I have to show that proof , right Me as a person filing that claim . Right , If I go ahead and start pursuing that and for some reason I got money to get an attorney , you don't have to show that proof , right Me as a person filing that claim .
Right , If I go ahead and start pursuing that and for some reason I got money to get an attorney , you now have to get one too , right ? So you now have to get one . And then , at the end of everything , if you come out on top , you've got this $20,000 legal bill . Now can you come towards me to recoup that back ?
Yeah , but what if I've got five bucks to my name ? You're still out , Right ? So that's why I tell people just make sure you document everything . That it makes it easier for you to defend yourself in case somebody brings some kind of a lawsuit . Right , it's at the end of the day , really , is that simple ?
I want to understand exactly what you just said about attorneys , because I think it's a universal truth that nobody wants to hear from them , what you just said about attorneys , because I think it's a universal truth that nobody wants to hear from them . What's the best way to avoid ?
a lawsuit . Document everything and focus just on work , just on their performance output .
Do not focus on their personality , do not focus on what they look like , do not focus on what sex they are , if your only focus is how they're performing at work or if your only focus is the ethical violation and nothing about the person , only the action , and you document everything .
That is the best way to make sure that you are on the right side of the law in case you get hit with a lawsuit . Right ? Because of course you know an attorney like I'm not a lawyer , but a lawyer is bound by an oath that if a client says , hey , this has happened to me , the attorney has a reasonable obligation to help them with that process .
They kind of have to believe them reasonably , unless there's a reason not to believe them that might blow up in their face . So when you have that thing out there , you have to make sure that if somebody because lawyers are an expert at raising reasonable doubts , they're expert at that . That is what they're trained to do .
You have to make sure that there is no doubt in your process that your case is airtight , and the best way to do it is to document everything and make sure you stay away from personalities and only focus on the infraction , and the infraction only , because anything outside of that are going to have holes poked in court and it's not a pretty sight .
Get into the real world . Can you share an example of when you've leveraged your expertise to help one of your clients with the labor law situation ?
Yes , actually , this was the best example is when I used to be a W-2 employee and I used to be an employee relations manager for a large restaurant chain , and what I did there is they grew so fast , pete , that they did a good job in training leaders on how to be a leader .
But unionization stuff stuff with unions wasn't really part of that training program . And when you have a lot of leaders being shown that , a lot of restaurants opening , and then you have some union folks walk in and start making demands , that's a scary situation and this organization was not ready for that .
So what they sent me in and my goal is , a , to understand what the employees were complaining about and , b , to teach leaders how to make sure that , if we are going to have a unionization election , how to do it properly , how to do it properly . So here's something that they did not
¶ Effective Communication in Labor Union Elections
know . Right , in the union world , right , the only thing you need to ratify a contract is if you have an election and 50% of the people that vote , plus one more vote a certain way , that's the vote that wins , plus one more vote a certain way , that's the vote that wins . Now , notice I said 50% of the people that show up .
So that means if a restaurant has 300 employees and only 10 people show up to vote , all you need is six people to say yes and it ratifies a contract for the entire 300-person restaurant . So my strategy was is let's not discourage people from voting , let's encourage to vote . Let's encourage them to vote . Let's let them know what benefits they can get .
Let's be honest , open and honest of what happens if we get a union . And we got to be careful with that , because the law says I only have a limited way , a limited amount of time or a limited way of explaining that , because there are things we can't do from a leadership perspective . But it's not fair .
But the point I'm making here is I encourage everybody to come vote , every single person . The manager's like why , ricky ? I'm like because the more people that come out to vote , the less likely they'll get a yes vote , as long as we communicate exactly what it means for us to have a union . And here's what happened . Are you ready for this , pete ?
This is going to blow your mind . Dude , this is going to blow your mind . I'm ready . This restaurant was in New York City , downtown , right , and the first thing I did I went to the back of the house . So for those of you who don't know how a restaurant , there's the back of the house where everything's cooked .
There's a front of the house where everything's served In the back of the house . I'm working with the people in the back and I'm like hey , why ? I'm just curious , why do you want a union ? The guy's just like well , you know , we don't have any sick pay . The union guy came in here and says that we need sick pay . Darn , it's not giving it to us .
I'm not only that . You're in New York City . In New York City , organizations this size are forced to pay out sick pay . You know what happened , pete ? 95% of the people in the back of the house spoke only Spanish . They didn't know English . They didn't read English . The employee handbook was in English .
So I asked the restaurant manager and I'm like how do you communicate ? Do you speak Spanish ? He's like no , I mean , a paycheck number in English is the same as in Spanish . I'm like okay , that means a good point , I get it , but why don't you have people that speak English ? He's like Ricky , hr told me here's another misconception .
Hr told me that's an illegal question . I can't ask them if they speak English or Spanish . I'm like stop , it is only an illegal question . If that skillset is not necessary for the job , pitching in the back is dangerous . You need that , you need to know . So let's get that out of your head , please . You can ask if you can speak English .
Right , and you can require it because it's necessary for this job . Right , that's the moment . Number two you need to have the employee handbook in Spanish then , because half the people in the back actually most of the back don't understand
¶ Navigating Employment and Labor Laws
that . They do get sick pay and these union guys are lying to them , and that's where we got these issues . They do get sick pay and these union guys are lying to them , and that's why we got these issues . Long story short like 150 people showed up right , overwhelmed , overwhelmingly right , no union , and it worked out beautifully .
So had I not have had that conversation with the GM , and the GM would have prevented people from coming in right , that would have been disastrous , because if uninformed people come in voting for something they would lie to , all you need is six people . If 10 show up , pete , and then they're in trouble .
So that's why I mean that is one example of where it was a great outcome , but it was kind of hard to get there .
Well , ricky , from that example and from everything else you shared today , my takeaway is this there's a lot of complexity to employment , labor laws .
As a business owner , odds are my time is spent on other things things that are part of the actual business that I'm running and I should rely on an expert , because it's just too deep and too meaningful and too important not to have the right information and the right person giving guidance along the way . So , like I said earlier , that's what I have you for .
Everyone should have someone like you in their camp , ricky , to help out . So , thanks for listening today , ask us any questions in the comments and follow us for more Talk to you soon . Have a good one .