¶ US Basketball
Outro Music yo peace fellas , peace , peace , what's ?
good , what up ?
I see ag with the um dream team shirt . American flag hat okay so thirsty . You're on right now . I love it . Dream team , dream team og og dream team facts . I love it , love it , I love it , I love it , I love it . How y'all fellas doing on this beautiful Sunday Tired . You've been up and at it , bruh , since .
Thursday Since Friday yeah a lot of grinding , but you know what I'm saying . It's vacation time , you feel me ?
Gotta do what you gotta do to enjoy the spoils of the hard labor .
That's right .
Yeah .
I don't take no days off , man , so enjoy your own vacation , man .
No days off for the kid . I mean , you may not take days off , but your days on involve you already traveling .
So that's true . That's true . What up Bugs AG ? Having to leave West Virginia to go someplace else ? That's a journey within itself . Man , you got to pack band-aids .
I get what Sean was talking about no days off from being a jerk . That's what it was . No days off Ferris a jerk . That's what it was .
No days off Ferris Bueller nigga , no doubt , no doubt , never a dull moment here .
First of all , everybody click , like and subscribe to the page and all our pages . Run our numbers up . Hip Hop Talks . We're everywhere . We're on twitter , we're on tick tock , we're on facebook , we're on instagram , we're on every simple stupid naming app that you could think of . Run our numbers up , please , yeah , yeah , what's ? Up to the people in the chat .
Jack , I see you up in here . Bugs , bugs , what up .
Love you , it's all wavy when we want to get started today , fellas , where y'all want to go , where y'all want to start with .
Let's get into these albums , man , I kind of wanted to talk about LeBron and Steph and Katie and the Olympics , right quick .
Okay , yeah , the light skin cast is back up . Hey , hey , drake and tatum had him down , bad for a little bit , but you know , steph steph came back , man , I told my son . I told my son jordan I was like yo y'all back up again man yeah , what are we ?
I mean seriously , guys like I know we won , but what are we going to do in four years when victor wimbenyama is 24 years old and might be the best player in the world and france is building this program on both the men's and the women's side , because the women defeated the french french women today by a point . Yeah , well , like there isn't .
There isn't , there isn't anymore . The world is catching up to us anymore , the world has caught up to us . And here and here's what I'm saying it took us having three of the 15 greatest players who ever lived to win this gold medal by roughly 10 points . Doesn't that frighten anybody about our future ? Just a little bit .
Just a little bit , because who do we have right now other than Ant ? I think that has a potential trajectory to be in that conversation , because even the best players of this era , well , in Jokic's case , they're not even from here . In Giannis' case , they're not from here , you know .
So it's like , in a lot of ways , it's like , oh no , I'm not sure if a Jason Tatum , john Morant , anthony Edwards-led team , I'm not sure how that type of team wins gold in four years , unless Ant really does like turn into a Michael Jordan , kobe Bryant , lebron James , kevin Durant , akeem a lot like type of all-time great player .
Because people forget this it took Durant busting 30 on the French in the last game to get us out of that one , and that was a five-point victory . And the American team was down in the fourth quarter against the French against 21 . And Kevin Durant literally just told the team just give me the ball Right .
Take us home .
You know , and so we were . You know we were . Kevin Durant's performance in the last Olympics is very comparable to Steph's in this one . The way that they closed out the games respectively , it took three . It's taken two of our 15 greatest players of all time to close out these last two Olympics Durant in 21 and Steph last night .
And LeBron playing like Magic Johnson because he has the talent to play like Magic Johnson and just fill up the stat sheet and make all the wonderful passes and plays , because when LeBron plays with talent he actually looks just like Magic .
Let's not forget that it took a kopi to close out spain . I don't remember if that was 08 or 2012 , that was 08 , with the redeem team right and um , it's a carmelo having a few big games to . You know , I'm saying , um , close out some teams .
So , yeah , I mean , I think to your point , coop , it's a big , big worry not having , uh , durant , um , you know , steph , let it be known , this is going to be his one and only chance at a gold medal . And then , you know , lebron , obviously , um , the guys , the younger guys left on the roster , can they carry the torch ? We don't know .
But look here in these last two games I watched kevin durant and steph curry hit assassin level shots when it mattered most . Like it's one thing to do it in the first first quarter . No , they're doing it in the last four minutes of the game . Like , like real verifiable , closer type of shit . Give me the ball , give me the ball .
You've seen durant in the semi final game .
Go ahead , go ahead , clear out go ahead , but this is playoff type intensity , moments like and it shouldn't be that close . But I think that's a twofold thing .
Uh , one thing look to your point about the rest of the world catching up and I heard barkley talking about it um , you know that that is a true statement , but these other countries still don't have , you know , somebody like a kevin durant or , uh , jason tatum or what , that you could pull off the bench . You know what I mean .
So the depth level of the usa is one thing , but depth isn't everything , because I was listening to paul george talk and this is something that we never take into consideration , right ? He said just putting 12 all-stars together and thinking they're going to be a team . He said , I mean , that's not necessarily the case .
He said that's hard to do , like , if you're a superstar working in the confinements of a , of a system , of a team , where you're used to getting your own shots a certain way and doing those sorts of things .
So I think that's why , when they adopted the USA camps around the redeem team , where you have to have a so many year commitment and you know , you do the world games and then you come back for the Olympics . You know , every two years you're in that cycle , so you get to develop a chemistry .
But what a lot of people don't speak about these other countries , even though they don't have the superstars we have . They may have two or three NBA players , but these guys have played together most of their whole lives . You know what I ?
mean Hold on , but AG . They're also playing and building out these programs with the intentions to contend and defeat the United States . We are the target when they are building out these programs from these kids that have been playing together since they were 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 years old .
Exactly , and that's all a product of this . Right here , the original dream team . That's what started that . You know what I mean , and I think that's we're giving them too much credit fellas .
We're giving them too much credit straight up because we got more programs , more resources than they will ever have to build a comparable team , the talent that we have and just the programs and everything that we have to come along with it . A lot of these countries , man , they are poor .
They don't have that around-the-clock treatment when it comes to playing basketball . You know what I mean . When I came up , we didn't have a legit AAU program . We didn't have all of those things the resources and to be able to treat your body the right way , to be prepared for season after season . We had to take bumps and bruises and kind of shake it off .
That's what they're going through . What we had to go through in the 90s and the 80s , that's what they're going through right now , in 2024 . The thing is , usa basketball has changed so much . The NBA has changed so much .
It's a caricature of what it used to be , because now you don't have no hand checking , there's no defense being played , there's no pride in defense , there's no pride in just having a skill tree that can develop . So when you go with that and you play loose balls in the Olympics , you have goofy stuff . That happens .
These teams are staying close to you because you're not playing good defense . That dream team I don't want to go back and , you know , get off my lawn type of deal here but that Dream Team , those guys . They played skilled basketball , fundamental basketball , and they started with defense .
Those guys had pride playing defense , because back then you had to play defense to stay on the court . Nowadays they let people go by you , they let you shoot . You're letting people , you're letting somebody from what ? France doing this , doing the mellow joint . They're not even shooters like that , you know . I mean because you're leaving a wide open .
Yeah , that's how it is in the nba . That's why these games are like 130 to 120 , 140 points , because there's no pride in defense and to your point , that's a problem .
If drew , holliday is the best defender on your whole team bingo , that's what I'm saying .
They're like , yes , have they closed the gap ? Absolutely , have they caught up ? Absolutely . But a lot of that is because the regression of fundamental basketball that's not being played over here . The most fundamental player won the championship last year and that was jokic .
The most fundamental , unexciting player won the championship last year , and what two-time , three-time mvp of the league . Two-time mvp no , you might have three , three now it's three , three yeah yeah , no , you know , I mean , he's playing fundamental . That's what those guys are over there doing . They're playing fundamental basketball .
No isolation , no stat pattern of that . They're playing basketball together . They don't care who scores , what we do .
We do . And if the team didn't have LeBron to run the offense like to Coop's point about him looking like Magic Johnson then what does that look like if they don't have LeBron being the point guard that he is ?
You know what I'm saying ? That's not regular point guard play . No , he just played magic level point guard play . You know what made magic special is that he had players , but he made the players even better because he put them right in their spots . It's like it only took LeBron a couple of weeks to figure out everybody's spots . You know , what .
I'm saying yeah . He's on an entire court .
He'd know what everyone was and he's played , and he's played against all these guys . So he studied all these guys , in particular steph and katie , so he knows exactly where to give them the ball he's like I know where you like the ball had to play your ass too much yeah , yeah , no doubt .
But you gotta have those guys that can be fundamentally sound and , um , you know those type of like a traditional point guard , somebody who's a good on the ball defender A lot of people forget . On the original dream team , john Stockton played like one game and was hurt the rest of the Olympics . He broke his fibula in one of his legs .
So Michael Jordan was like playing backup point guard . You know , when magic went out the game he was sliding from the two to the point . So I mean you've , mean you gotta have you know , a lot of these um , quote-unquote traditional positions and fundamentals to compete with these teams .
¶ Comparing NBA Players and Future Talent
So now I agree with sean in that sense ?
this is what I'm saying . Is that ? But listen to the players that we are talking about . We're talking about magic johnson and john stockton and LeBron James and Kevin Durant , steph Curry . I'm saying no , but who we got , that's next . That's comparable . To replace that . Because , outside the pants in terms of that highest level , not a high level .
They all made it over here . Of course they're high level . Yeah , that peak level , Because it's going to take a player performing at the highest level , at the level . We just saw Steph Curry perform at the level . We saw Kevin Durant performing in the previous Olympics and mellow in the Olympics before that and Kobe in the Olympics before that .
I think you're right , AG . I think it was 12 , not eight . Spain is 12 . I think you're right ?
Okay yeah . And D Wade Okay yeah . And D-Wade was big for that 08 team . I know he went crazy to like get them over the hump on some games , so he was like sixth man , you know .
And Carmelo's probably the worst of those players we just named . Most of these guys are not .
Carmelo , that's my guy . Yeah , but nah , being fair like being fair , you're right .
Most of these guys are not Carmelo . Are we clear on that ? Most of the guys on this roster are not named LeBron James Stephen .
Curry Jay no .
Especially with the ball in their hands .
Is that Curry's fault , though ? Is that Steve Curry's fault ?
You want to know what People keep talking about .
You're breaking up AG . Yeah , can you hear me now ? Yeah , we can hear you now . Yeah , my power went out for a second . Jt didn't get a fair shake during this one , but he's somebody who I think is going to be around a little bit in the Olympics , as long as Steve Curtis can coach him , I guess .
Respectfully . This is what I'm saying . Do you think Jason Tatum is actually ?
better than carmelo anthony hell . No , carmelo's my guy , one of my favorite players ever hold on then .
What makes you think , when I , when we just named off wade , kobe , lebron , kb and steph , that's the level , that's that a1 level , yeah the young guy . There's nobody on that level and Jason Tatum is probably going to be a top three player on the next team . That we feel Correct .
I'm not even putting Ant on Melo level , you know . So you think what I'm not even putting Ant Edwards on Melo's level . So you named him as probably the best on the next team .
you know what I mean , I think ant trending at this moment is going to be better than carmelo all time if he continues down this path . And so what I'm saying is is that our best possibility ?
Because it's like when I see where ann is trending , it's like I could see him having a duane wade type of career , like that would be the floor , but the the ceiling would be a Kobe type of career , and he has the highest ceiling . Is what I'm saying is because , like no , I legitimately see somebody that could have a Kobe-like career .
That ceiling is very high . If he maxes ? Did you see what he just did in these playoffs at like 20 , 21 years old ? It's very Kobe-like , like he didn't win yet .
But Mello , don't get it twisted . Mello was doing that too for Denver . Mello was doing that too for Denver . You know what I'm saying ? He ?
was killing it . No disrespect to Mello , but we talking top 30 , and I'm talking top 10 .
Yeah , but Mello was killing it for Denver . Bron didn't even make the playoffs his first two years . Bron didn't even make it and Mello was carrying Denver on his back .
I mean Wade's a better , closer than both of them . Truthfully , Like historically , if you really want to look at it , Dwayne Wade was hitting playoff game , winning shots as a rookie .
Nah Mello got the record for game winners . We might have to do another . Quantifiable facts . I said that Dwayne Wade was hitting game winners .
The playoffs has a rookie . I didn't say he had more .
Yeah , he was yeah , because that was against your boys .
It's neither here nor there . It's neither here nor there . It has nothing to do with the conversation whatsoever . Let's slide to the next topic .
Let's go to the next topic AG . The internet is going out in West Virginia again . When the weather is good , the West Virginia internet starts messing up . He's frozen right now . Give him a chance to come back to life . Where do you want to start , man ? Where do you want to go ? Do you want to go to Drake ?
Do you want to go to the album review at Mike ? Or do you want to go ? Or do you want to go ?
Yo , can y'all hear me ? I went out for a minute , yeah , real quick before we get off the USA basketball talk . Do y'all think Kawhi deserves a medal for this team ? No .
What did he do ? What did he do other than cost the ?
team money and team doctors .
Exactly , he almost got free health healthcare overseas .
That's what he got . He's got free healthcare and rehabilitation and a vacation . Yeah , definitely pimping the system . He asked the Clippers for a helicopter yeah .
He's a wild boy , he's a real wild boy . Let's not do that . Eg . Let's not do that .
Let's go to music .
People are asking for the music man go to music .
People asking for the music man , the chat asking for the music man . Let's get to the music , no doubt , but y'all want to go with , y'all want to start first , but I'm going to kick off .
I would like to start with drake okay is that cool ag yeah , yeah
¶ Drake's Music and Work Ethic
let's go . First of all , I want to say I want my jacket . You have to my birthday to give me my jacket . You're getting that jacket my birthday to get my jacket first . You have to my birthday to give me my jacket . You're getting that jacket . You have to my birthday to give me my jacket . First of all , sean , nobody asked me .
That's why I didn't tag you on Twitter today when I reposted Much like the future of Metro Album . I'm starting to feel the wave man . I don't know what to do . Man , much like the future of Metro Album . We don't trust you .
No , I'm with you on that Coop . Really Shout out to my homie LG man , lg and MD .
No , honey , you know I realize this battle has made me realize how polarizing Drake really is for people . You know , because , as I as I'm having to clarify now , I'm actually a push a T fan , so I've always looked at Drake . On an MC level has somebody that's really good , but not like great , not that next level Great we're like rap wise .
He necessarily excites me , but he is very versatile . He does do all the things . He's a high-level rapper . He sings . Hook Game is in the conversation for greatest of all time , if not greatest of all time . He's up there with 50 and Meth and all your other all-time great hook writers , slash singers in here .
Feature Game yeah , feature Game sales hits strings in here . Feature game yeah , feature game sales hits strings whatever . However , we count now he counts , you know , and counts and runs the numbers up , puts numbers on the board .
So what I really realized by him releasing this is that he's really doing this , is that he's really doing this not necessarily about the music , but about so that you really you know a lot of this is still jabs at Kendrick . It's like no , look at all the work that I put in .
You know he's showing you all the work that he puts in towards his craft to get to where he's at . So he's kind of like he's like oh , since people was asking questions , you know I'm saying let me pull it like behind the curtain for you a little bit and show you , like what it's really all about .
Like he , when he's showing you like recording out of a studio , a microphone booth that essentially is a closet like in a room you know what I'm saying he's like he's showing some humility , he's showing some insight . You know this is like . This is type of stuff you really don't get from artists of this stature while they're still existing at this stature .
This is the stuff you get after they're done or when they're doing a big interview and somebody goes to some footage , did it about the music , and some of the music is actually good . You know like , don't tell me that it's up with young thug and 21 isn't good . That's one of 21's uh , better verses that I've heard in a minute .
Um , shit , like kendrick huh , you think he was one at kendrick on that bar , no , okay .
So really , he's definitely going at kendrick like . But he's going at kendrick like . It's almost like he's resetting and restarting , because this is what I mean . He's back to throwing the subliminals again , you know .
Yeah , his manager said it wasn't for kendrick .
But I don't like when somebody's manager comes to the forefront and speaks up for him when the artist never said that when your manager comes out , that's like owens had like drew rosenhouse come out , like you know , to his front lawn like lawn , while he's sitting up there doing fucking crunches in the back or some shit .
You get what I'm saying .
It's like oh no , at the point that your agent , slash manager or whatever is coming out and saying something . That's when we don't .
Damage control .
That's when we don't trust you . Right , right , there is when it happens . So no , but I thought it was actually an insightful look into him , kind of . And this is where I feel like it's a jab at Kendrick . It's kind of like I'm always working , how about you ? You know that's what I mean . All of this stuff is subliminal .
No , the stuff that he's saying on these records is subliminal . Like all of them , he's trying to show you , too , that he's not affected by it . The one way you can see that he might be affected by it If the rationale and cause for releasing this is him being affected by it .
But outside of that , he's kind of showing you that it's business as usual and this is the usual .
I got a , I got a question for y'all , though , um , it's a lot of people to have an opposing view of that . I've seen it a lot on social media that the narrative now is like you know , drake is , you know , to have that work ethic . He's in like one of those 360 type deals and he's slaving for Lucian Grange and , you know , having the universals like yo .
Get back to work . You know what I'm saying . Keep on putting out these hits , and you know what do you have to say to that ?
Well , hold on . First of all , I think you know my guy , pusha T , is the one that actually made that a thing . It's for people to point that out , so we're going to point him out for pointing that out . But also , too , you're talking about a guy that owns a couple of planes in drake , right you know .
So it's not like it's not like he's running around like still trying to pay people because he's in some sort of debt or in some sort of hole , or is it being extorted .
He , uh , might just be in , you know , quite frankly , a , a rap record deal and , like Q-Tip told us on the low-end theory , rap , media and business people are shady , so he might just be in a bad deal . I mean , how many niggas is in a bad deal if we just don't keep it funky ? You know what I'm saying . Like most of the industry is in bad deals .
Don't point out Drake , because here's what it does . Drake makes the type of music that generates the type of income that the bad deal that he's in hasn't really affected his financial trajectory more than the inherent , like you know , paperwork that's on the contract itself . Like he's actually done . Like , like name other , like , if his deal is bad .
Show me the other rapper with . The deal is bad .
That got as much money as Drake yeah , I think he's close to a billionaire now . I think I saw his net worth of like 900 million or something is assets , everything liquid , yeah , assets .
And if you were to liquidate , that's what I'm saying , yeah , plus like cash flow , yeah , like , come on . So is he in a bad deal ? Probably . Here's the thing about it . It meant more when Pusha T said it 10 years ago for the first time , because back then Drake didn't have money like he has today . Right .
He was making money , but he's built an empire since then , financially for himself . It wasn't an empire when Pusha T said it , so the effect of it isn't , as that's true , not the same . Yeah , yeah , I mean most of these cats is in bad deals Like let's not act like it's just Drake or Kendrick or .
Kendrick for that matter , because there's been swirlings and rumors about Kendrick , which is kind of like some of the stuff Drake was alluding to on push-ups .
Yeah , yeah , they all have that deal .
I mean .
Jay's still trying to get access to 100% reasonable doubt . You know , no one is in a better space . Nasdaq doesn't have all the credits to Elmatic , so everyone goes through this right . It's rap life . It's rap life , I don't know , man .
This is a tricky thing for me when it comes to Drake and just the music in itself , because music , hip-hop has became it's no longer immutable . Hip-hop is more diverse now , where it's almost blurred the lines to where hip-hop really stops and where it begins again .
Drake kind of ventured into that space because he got the singing , he got the dancehall stuff , he got the pop stuff , he got a different range , different level of palettes that he can dive into . He'll always be accepted in different arenas , may not be as much as more as hip hop , as the purists will call it , but he'll still be accepted in different arenas .
You know he's proven that with Goldo . He's proven that by hopping on other tracks . I think right now his goal if I'm Drake , my goal is to come out with a great album . That's the best you can do at this point .
You can dump all of these you know 100 gigabytes all over the place and show nostalgic stuff of old , your rhetorics or relics of you All these things . The goal is to drop a dope album .
So . So , sean , here was my final point and kind of takeaway from all of this , though , and it kind of goes back to something that I've been saying and that's not why I'm pointing it out it really is true , like what I see from this as a whole . Well , right now he's kind of showing you this beef shit with him .
It's a small thing to me and the big piece of the puzzle of what I do .
It's reflected in the three songs that are actually on iTunes right now , because they're hitting his three different market bases and just through the actual footage , like like , there is no real Kendrick talk outside of the actual music subliminals , and so he's kind of showing you this is , at the end of the day , a small thing to a giant .
Is the overall feel that I get from it ? It's like , yeah , but business as usual is me , because over here it's like real big business all the time and I got to keep the business going . You know what I'm saying . So it came off very much to me , like you know .
Let me peel back a little bit before I rev up again and kind of like , just show people like the inside of what it looks like for me . And the inside of what it looks like for me doesn't involve needing to talk about him to rejuvenate or restart or do anything but cool . I .
I understand
¶ Drake vs Kendrick
where you're coming from . I don't like it because in the battle , in the battle , no , here's why in the battle , he was the one that said he was prepared for this with k-dot . He was the one that said I got more to come at you , you come at me . I got more , I'm going , I'm not going to stop . He created this wave of this .
He , he was the one who antagonized k-dot in the beginning , to the point where we felt like , okay , he's , he's beating K-Dot . He must have a lot of . He had a loaded clip to come back and he did not have a loaded clip .
He went into this thinking that I'm going to crush K-Dot off of this song or that song , this visual , that visual , this IG , that IG . And it backfired to the point where he didn't have a clip at all . So I can't accept the fact that now I'm just going to show you what I can do . I have other business to go . Nah , you started this fire .
And now the fact that you started this fire , k-dot came through , had a smash hit in Not Like Us , very poetic to what Drake would do in a battle . You got everybody bopping to it . I'm not a big fan of the song . I think it's ran its course , but people are still going crazy over it .
I like the record . The record dope .
It's a dope record , but I feel like it's ran its course for me , for me , right ? I'm just ?
saying it's ran its course for me , Unbiasedly speaking , since people think I'm so biased . No , Sean , I think the record's still slapping right now . He got one with this one .
I told you this is one of his best songs .
actually , this is one of his top 20 songs , and I'm not just talking about the attention and the strength that it's getting . It's a dope-ass record .
It's a dope song . It crushed Drake's momentum , even if he had momentum . That's the thing . Did he even get momentum ? Was he just still wrapping up ? Because it shitted all over Family Matters . When we thought that Drake had dropped a bomb in Family Matters , here comes Kendrick again and I'm like he didn't even get that joint a chance to breathe .
So now Drake is in an odd space where you had an opportunity to seize a moment and you didn't have anything left in the tank . Now you want to come back and start dropping all this IG stuff and 100 gigabytes .
I can't accept that no , y'all , both are right . Y'all , both are right for different reasons .
Hold on real quick , ag , and then I'm going to let you go and then we can kind of like slide or we can kind of we can . We can talk through this a little bit more if y'all want . But this is what I mean about business as usual , and AG spoke to it in our last show on Friday .
Well , he does shit like this actually before this battle , and that's what I mean about kind of sending the message . Is business as usual .
No , he comes from an era where you leak some of your stuff to get people more connected to you and what you , what you have going on , and so you know , strategically , he connects like this in every generation or every span of time , every three to five years , doesn't he do this , ag ?
You've got to pivot .
It's part of the Drake kit . Though is what I'm saying , sean .
The Drake kit .
Yeah , he was going to do this . It comes with the kit that makes him the star that he is . He was going to do this .
Whether this battle happened or not is what I'm trying to tell you , I agree , I agree , coop , but sean , you're also right and not to rehash stuff that we done talked , that talked about ad nauseum .
But to your point , sean , yes , like you know , he antagonized kendrick because , like into coop's point , previously we didn't have the evidence that kendrick was going to come with a flurry of records and that he had the work .
And Drake thought that if he could antagonize him and bait him for a response that Family Matters was , he was like I still haven't pushed the red button . It's not the red button , family Matters for him was the red button . He says at the end you're dead . That was them , you're dead . He thought that that was the kill shot , but it wasn't .
And the point that people miss a lot of times about meet the grams meet the grams didn't necessarily have to be better than family matters . I personally don't think it is . But it's just the fact that it stifled out any momentum that drake could have had with family matters . It did his job and then kendrick knew he .
Kendrick knew he had not like us waiting in the wings . Nobody could have predicted that . I don't care how much of a Kendrick fan you are , you didn't know he was going to hit with that flurry of records now .
Meet the Grams is like when General Sherman burned Atlanta . It wasn't the end of the war , but he was cutting the supply off when he did that .
There you go , there you go and you know , and then moving forward beyond that , you know to our point about the evidence of Kendrick not working like that . I was having a discussion with my homie the other day and he was like , well , where's the album at , where's the album at ? Kendrick got to follow up this momentum with an album .
I was like he actually doesn't . You know what I mean . Because if we're going by , you know what Coop said , not like us is still ringing off to present day . It's buying him a lot of time , buying him a lot of momentum .
So ride that shit to the wheels , fall off and then , when that happens , guess what he's probably going to do Drop the remix that we've been hearing about for the past couple of months that's lingering out there and because he had the visuals and stuff .
So then the remix buy you a few more months and then we might not even get a Kendrick album to a middle of 2025 because this one song is buying him all the time in the world . You know what I mean . So I think that that is the point where you know Kendrick can be afforded , with this hit record , to work at the pace he normally works .
Now we's right to coop's point . Drake this is the drake kid . He's done it before and if we remember , like you said , sean , with the ig captions , when the battle , when everybody has said it was done , he had the picture of the samurai against the armor . What did the army he said ? What'd he say ? He said good times , summer vibes next .
Yes , this little 100 gig ep that he put out is in line with what he's saying . Like I'm going to creating the summer vibes . That , uh , blue , green , red is a summer type record . To join with lotto is a summer type record .
The only thing I'm disappointed about like I predicted on the last show , I thought it was going to be , um , a part , those , those three songs were going to be a part to a greater whole . Like he was going to come with the care package , volume two or something like that of unreleased stuff .
So you know , that's the only disappointment I have , but you know it's on brand for him . You know , dropping these three joints when he put them out on the website , the 100gigsorg or whatever that was , you know Sean brought this up .
That was a temperature check to see if the people were still rocking with them like that , and not only Drake fans , but Kendrick fans was going to check the records out . You know what I mean . So let's put them on streaming and run them numbers up . So you know . I think y'all both are right in that sense .
Can I share my final thoughts that we can get out of here ? I love this , fellas . I love this . Two points I want to make . My first point is when Jay went at Nas and Nas dropped steelmatic freestyle and Jay suppressed it and he thought that he had this whole thing wrapped up and Jay overshot himself and undershot Nas and then Ether came .
Nas didn't have to do anything else after Ether , he let Ether burn , burn , burn , burn and Jay had to deal with it . He had to respond , continue to respond , and Nas just poking him lightly . You know all of these things . Then he finished it off with last real alive . That was the end of that . That was it .
No remixes to Ether , no remixes to anything else . He kept it right there .
¶ Battle of the Albums
Same thing . You go back and you look at the fact that when Drake said he had this extra extended clip for Kendrick and never shot it off , and now we're still dancing to not like us . You are still dancing to not like us . I don't dance , I'm a gangster like us . I don't dance , I'm a gangster . Y'all still dancing .
Y'all be shaking the tail feather to not like us . We still trying to figure out . And , like Coop said earlier , you got to drop an album after that . And the last point to that is and I saw shout out to E Subil , to E's Queens , get the Money .
And he was talking about the L and cannabis battle and said that L really lost that battle and we had conversations about that , you know behind the scenes by saying , nah , l's consistency is what won the battle . Cannabis took a round but L's consistency won the overall battle .
Cannabis made the best song in the battle , but the overall .
But him dropping the dud didn't help matters .
Sean , I want you to finish , because I have a point to make this .
I was teeing you up , for that Cause's what I'm saying . I was .
That's why , so that's what I'm saying people don't understand that it's like part of winning the battle overall . Traditionally has always had a project connected to it . Yes , that's all I'm asking the project is connected to the victory , yes , or the project is the victory lap . You get what I'm saying . You have to consolidate your power .
You can't just take the throne . You have to consolidate your power with an album .
Right , and I said on a previous show that I cannot put this battle over Jay and Nas , because Jay and Nas has the blueprint and still Matic attached to it .
Exactly Two classic albums . Two classic , classic albums . Like you know , it's a classic when you listen to it , right ? So that's the consolidation of those moments . And what I'm saying is , if what you just have is the records , it's like no , like no vaseline ends death certificate . Before you get the no vaseline , it's some of the best rap .
Like at the point that he had made death certificate , you could say that that was a top five mic performance all time , that's before no vaseline comes on oh .
And to that same point you're right , because daytona came out prior to the oh . And to that same point , coop , you're right , because Daytona came out prior to the story of Adidon and all that stuff . So he was still reeling off of Daytona . So you know , if it's a classic album you can attach to it .
It's almost like you know you head-to-head in a battle for MVP and then you win the MVP race but you don't get the chip at the end of the year . It's kind of like that . You need that chip at the end of the year to solidify your MVP in a sense .
Yeah , and this is what I mean about Drake saying that it's business as usual because this shit is popping for Dot right now and I'm not taking away anything from him as an emcee A lot of this is popping for him because of who he is talking about and drake is like well , back to business for me because I don't have to talk about anybody from my shit to
pop . I can go right back to throwing subliminals at you all day and it can be business as usual , whereas the guy over here , like you , say ag his time and I think even saying buying time , that's kind of strong ag .
And that's me saying that well , no , no , I just at the pace he normally works . I didn't mean it with no disrespect , you know what I mean , but okay you ride the single out for sure right , he's getting to ride this single out .
Let's know what I'm saying , because this song is the best rap song that he's made in a long ass time . I'm not taking anything away from the record . I'm saying until like this is better than like song wise , like , forget the disc part .
Like , if you actually like love the craft of mc and you're listening to what he's doing and how he's dancing on the beat and the pocket that he's finding and when he uses his vocal inflections and voice changes to his benefit and not his detriment , no , this record fundamentally has an mc has all those things . The hook is catchy and it's taking shots .
It does a lot of things . So , as far as mic performance and song quality , it's literally the best shit that he has made in a very long time . But it's about somebody else and what drake is saying is like I don't gotta do anything .
And to your point to juxtapose that Coop , I don't consider either or take over a top five song on either one of those albums because it's not .
Because it's not . This is one of his 20 best songs , like overall song . He did it with a Kendrick Lamar song approach . There's the vocal inflection . There's a calculated breakdown in theory being applied to the storyline of the rhymes . He's just doing it in battle form because he's getting at it . You know what ?
I'm saying it's classic Kendrick in terms of what his ceiling is . This is some of his best stuff so let me ask a question .
I don't have an answer to this , I just really want to know y'all's thoughts , so , and then we can move on . Let's not get it twisted . Kendrick took that battle because you're going to have some people in the comments saying that , like you know , we're trying to frame it a different way . Kendrick took that battle hands down , you know .
But if both of them drop albums around the same time and drake clearly has the better album of the two , then what does that ? I don't like saying somebody won the battle and somebody else won the war . I don't like that rhetoric .
But what does that look like as far as the framework of the whole thing , if kendrick I mean if drake drops the better project of the two ?
I don't have an opinion , I'm just asking . Can I tell you what ? What I think could happen ? I think that we could be having the first rap battle .
That kind of like keeps going after it seems like a seminal moment has happened , as like it might not be over , like , like people are like it's over with , not like us , and Drake's whole point might be well , my stature is as such that even if you make a record like that , which is some of your best stuff , it could never be over for a guy like me .
I'm gonna keep going and getting at you , because I'll tell you what , as a Pusha T fan , as somebody that feels like he lost to Pusha T he kept going , but he kept going .
He stayed competitively viable , and that's what you really want out of a rap artist , and that's what I mean when I'm saying he has core , fundamental hip hop tendencies that he doesn't get acknowledged for , because it's very akin to the fact and I mean , sean , you and I have talked about this before it's like well , if you whoop my ass and it's hard to whoop
my ass you should know that you're going to have to fight me again . You're going to have to fight me until I beat you . You understand , I don't care if you get me real bad . I got to take a couple days to recover . When I see you again .
And rappers got the big egos and you know , sean mentioned it earlier Jay was still , you know , nas was , you know , sending just kind of antagonizing Jay , like you know , reminding him that he lost , like you know , up until last , real live . You know what I mean . But Jay , I think he was releasing stuff all the way up until um .
A lot of people don't mention the PSA remix where cause , you know , made you look , is , you know , a disc record in a sense , or whatever , the slave to a page in his rhyme book . He's talking about Jay and Jay responded to that . On the PSA remix he said they shooting but nobody died . Somebody put a better , better , put a body on somebody's iron .
Y'all remember that joint , yeah , you know what I mean .
So jay , jay is taking shots on the black album at nas absolutely so what more can I say ? That's yeah like he was everybody's list .
Let's see right right but , but , but .
That's what I'm saying , but that's'm saying but Jay's way of saying is that , no , I might have lost , but I can still make a product like the Black Album . Yes , yeah , the Blueprint and the Black Album . It's like , no , I lost . Now how the Blueprint and the Black Album sound .
It's like , well , nobody's career could ever be over when you make albums like that , when you rhyme the way Jay rhymes yeah , so Drake has to put up when you make albums like that , when you rhyme the way Jay rhymes , yeah , like it can't be over , and so Drake has to put up Right , and so Drake needs .
He don't need the Black Album , because I think that's too big of an ask at this stage , but he needs something to show that it's like very much like Jay , like in the midst of losing a battle , he made the Blueprint and the Black Album . In the midst of that , though , battle , he made the blueprint in the black album .
In the midst of that , though , it's like that . It's not , it's a lot .
It's a loss against one guy , but it's not a loss overall compared to the rest of you dudes so let me get this straight and hold on ag and real quick , and there are still people that think that , despite losing that battle , that jay is better than nas , and there's a large amount of people that feel that way , including the mass media .
So we need to be taking the long stream approach about this and look , if you look at not like us , the way that you look at ether , if you feel like it's a modern day ether , understand . Ether's a kill shot to literally probably anybody else , except for a prime j or a prime rock him .
For anybody else it's a kill shot , but because of who they are on the mic album , wise and culturally , no ain't no killing that off and drake very much is in that respect in this generation and he just needs an album to consolidate that thought yeah , well , I just yeah , and that's good points .
But I just want to ask you this coop , to keep you honest drake doesn't have to come out with a black album level record , but cole have to come out with a Black Album level record , but Cole has to come out with a Cuban Link type record .
No no , no , let's go to Apple Reviews . Apple Reviews no . Apple Reviews no , no , no , we're not doing that .
You want to step away from the mic ? You better come back to the mic with something brilliant you want to step away from the mic .
No man want to step away from the mic . We not doing this today . That's Patreon , that's for the Patreon . Don't get triggered on that Patreon Ridiculous , coming soon .
¶ Killer Mike's Album Review and Status
I said he don't have to make the purple tape . That's unrealistic . His purple tape how about this ? I think it's . Can I get a the Cool Level by Lupe Fiasco ? Or it's purple tape ? How about this ? Can I get the cool level by Lupe Fiasco ? Or Midnight Marauders ? Or Illidelf Half-Life ? Or Light Water for Chocolate . Can I get a Light Water for Chocolate ?
Do you think that's unreasonable ?
Not for Cole , no .
After all of this too , come on , not unreasonable , it's necessary at this point . Not for Cole . No , after all of this too , come on , not unreasonable , it's necessary at this point we'll see what happens .
First you get your jacket or Cole drop . I don't even .
I don't even need him to make moment of truth like I don't need moment of truth . Or it's dark and hell is hot , or get rich , or die trying out of you like , hey , what about , michael ? I'm sorry man , I was provoking and the truth , or it's dark and hell is hot , or get rich , or die trying out of you , like make it ill , or don't have what about .
Michael , I'm sorry man , I was provoking Coop with that one . Let's move on .
This is ridiculous .
Michael Better make album of the year .
Album of the year . We going to Michael next .
If he don't make album of the year , I ain't trying to hear it . This one you aging .
Okay , yeah , so we go into Michael and that's a good transition . Coop talking about album of the year , because Killer Mike was one to promote Michael as such . This new project , man , the name of it is a long title . I don't even remember it off the top of my head . It's for Saints and Sinners , what's it called ?
Saints and Sinners . Something , something , something , something . Get to the music . Let me get a super chat . Okay , go ahead . I don't know what this is .
JPH Mafia album is production-wise . Raps are mid . Thank you for the super chat .
No , no , tell him to put that back in the chat , because we don't understand what the hell that he might be from a different country .
Yeah , I think he's a Euro . That's a different currency . Appreciate it . Yeah , we got you Magic . Thank you for the super chat . I know this rap is like Dot , drake and Logic . Out here we're dropping eight to nine minutes Rap songs . Thank you , lupe . Please let's not get started on that again .
So we're talking about mike right , yeah , I got michael . Michael man , wow man . But um , but yeah , I got this new project . It's uh , you know , and mentioned it last time . It maybe can be seen as like lost tapish or whatever .
I won't go that far , but you know , rappers have found a way to repackage and repurpose like products that they , you know , songs that they worked on before , and listen to this , to this project it was , it was cool , it was cool . But what I will say ?
Like he had new joints on there but some were repurposed , like the song Slumber from Michael and Songs for Junkies , which were two standouts on Michael . He repurposed that into like one , you know , and Ill Magic brought up these nine-minute songs . It's like a 10-minute song on there where he combines both of those songs and it's called Slumber for Junkies .
And it's a 10 minute song on there where he combines both of those songs and it's called slummers , slumber for junkies , and it's a 10 minute song with different beats of production but the same lyrics as those two songs which were on Michael .
And then he has another , another song that's repurposed with features it got blast on our offset called Scenic route or whatever that was on . It's called exit nine . That was on the michael joint .
So what I'll say is outside of the repurpose songs , I think this would have been better served as you know , because the songs are solid if you would have packaged these songs with michael and made like a nice cohesive double album , because I feel like a lot of these songs would have fit within the scheme of Michael .
He probably scrapped them while he was recording and I'm not necessarily saying people are running to check for a Killer Mike double album , but the Michael DeLutz runtime was about a minute , I mean an hour and like 10 minutes roughly , and then this project is roughly about 40 minutes .
So if you take off the repurpose songs and then add the other songs in with michael , you're looking at probably a solid hour and a half . Um , you know , double album that would have flowed well , would have been cohesive . But you know , sometimes the move is like , okay , well , let's repackage this and put it out later to keep that steam rolling or whatever .
But I don't see the purpose in it really . I think it would have been better as a double album for me .
It's OK , apple , it's OK . Listen , nothing jumps out . I love . Nobody Knows . You know I love 97 , 36 Freestyle . Nobody knows you know I love 97 , 3-6 freestyle , I love . Still talking , I'm going to be honest . I'm going to apologize to my homeboy Pittman Back in 99 , I told him that Project Pat was just as bad as Silk the Shocker . And that was 2024 .
And my adult self , I know I was young and naive and ignorant . Now , me being 44 , I look forward to hearing a Project Pat verse honestly , and I felt that Project Pat verse to me was something refreshing to close out the album .
In my opinion and that's crazy for me to even think about that years later , 20 plus years later , thinking that man , I'm looking forward to hearing a Project Pat verse Because I thought he killed it , style-wise , everything . I like the fact that Mike is feeling himself a little bit Paul just off winning the Grammy . He's talking about that .
He's out there , he's bragging a little bit . He's showing he feels different now that he won his Grammy , did the jig dance on the Grammy stage in front of millions of people . He's okay with that .
But the fact that he dropped this as a follow-up to a Grammy-winning album , I thought it was like a Lucy for the most part , to let people still know I'm still Killer Mike , I'm still dope and I won a Grammy . That's my takeaway from the album itself . Coop , take us home with this one man . Give us an intricate perspective from your side of the house .
I say all of this respectfully . Do you consider Killer Mike to be an A-list caliber MC ? Absolutely On the A-list .
He's tap dancing on it . No pun intended , but he's why do you do this man ? It felt right .
I don't . No , I don't think he's . I think he's clearly and there's no disrespect I think he's clearly B . I don't think he's on the fringe of being A , I just think he's clearly a B tier .
AG , I would agree with you , except for the guys that are on the quote-unquote B tier .
Of all those guys that I would consider to be on the B tier instead of the A , I don't think there's a guy that crosses over the line of giving you a level versus , at times , the way killer Mike does , though , and so I get what Sean is saying about about tap dancing on the line .
I do understand fundamentally what you're saying , knowing who you are as a person .
He's trying to be funny .
That's what he's doing knowing your intentionalities , you're wrong , as usual , but that's not anything new to me .
I told you no days off from being a jerk . That's Sean . How about ?
this . Do you remember him on Good Morning with Black Thought and Pusha T ? Well , he has the best verse and I do consider Pusha T and Black Thought to be on the A-list . Black Thought would be close to the top of the A-list , pusha T probably , objectively , would be somewhere at the bottom , but both A-lists and he had a better verse than both of them .
So he has those type of capabilities for a verse to come out and show out like that , has those type of capabilities for a verse to come out and show out like that .
But I felt after listening to this project and after watching our last show where we were talking about big sean , that mike's problem isn't the songs , it's not even necessarily the albums , it's not the verses , it's the fact that identifiably , we don't really connect to him because we really don't know who he is . Much like big sean .
He doesn't have a connecting point or connecting thread to him and that's why when we were even talking about top 10 atlanta mcs , I was just ringing off the guys , because those guys have something about them that makes you feel more connected to them , and they always have , and so I feel like he actually has some of big sean's um , their first world problems ,
but in hip hop terms , in terms of your all time classification and rank and the era that you exist in , I feel like he has the same issue Sean had , because it's like I want you all to ask yourself this and if you can answer it , go ahead . Who is Killer Mike to you In hip hop terms ? Who is Killer Mike to you In hip-hop terms ? Who is Killer Mike ?
It's like Andre is a poet and a thinker and a philosopher .
You know what I mean .
Big Boy is a pimp and a player with that smooth Atlanta talk to you even if he's not there . Ti and Jeezy represent the hustle and the struggle and the trap . You get what I'm saying . I'm just talking and the trap . You get what I'm saying . I'm just talking about Atlanta artists . You know what I'm saying . Future represents the new wave .
¶ Killer Mike's Identity in Hip-Hop
You know what does Killer Mike represent in hip-hop terms for who he is as an MC ? That you can identify it , because I think that might actually be his biggest problems . Because he makes solid projects . All the Run the Jewels projects are dope . Good point he . Because he makes solid projects . All the Run the Jewels projects are dope .
He's only made a few albums , but all the albums have actually been good to great , depending on how you feel . So it's not like he's necessarily missing anything , but do you feel connected to Mike ? I'm with you all the way up until Michael .
I think that's why Michael got the love that it got , because it was very personal . I think that's why Michael got the love that it got , because it was very personal . He dove a little bit deeper into you know who he is as a man and subject matter and those sorts of things .
But I think , to answer your question , like not maybe the hip hop as a whole , but to Atlanta itself sonically , in the route that he took on Michael , I feel like he's trying to portray himself as the soul quote unquote of Atlanta . You know what I mean Very gospel or gospel oriented tracks , the subject matter , and you know .
You know , like you said , big boy , pinfish and and you know that sort of thing . I think Mike wants to market himself as the soul of Atlanta . You know , and that's what I took away from him .
I can dig that that might be an accurate assessment . But what I would tell you is I think CeeLo is that to a lot of people I was thinking about Goody Mob when I said it CeeLo has the belt .
That's what I mean .
So CeeLo does it at an A-list level . It's like Mike . How about this ? Mike's verse of the year contenders , because he has them in his catalog . Ceelo's verse of the year contenders they make the same type of verse of the year contenders .
It's done with soul and because CeeLo can sing .
He has an inherent advantage over Mike .
I'm not saying it's fake , but we haven't seen Z-Lo in a good while .
No , he's up there For me . As far as Atlanta MCs , I only have Andre and Big Boy ahead .
No , I'm just saying we haven't seen him in a while . He's not as active these days he has short arms too .
Let me get this on Super Chat real quick . There's . Get this on super chat real quick . There's something wrong with him .
Man like why do you do that ? Nothing you don't have , so she don't have short arms . So read the super chat , bro . Hold on , hold on , hold on before you can't box with god before you do . Rj may have called the point . Great point , rj . He says celo has personality Killer . Mike doesn't .
I agree with that . Brandon Rogers $10 Super Chat . Did you guys pick the Larry June project ? Happy 51st birthday to hip-hop ? Indeed , happy 51st birthday to hip-hop , for sure , and the Larry June project is dope . It is definitely dope . We're probably going to talk about that a little bit when we get into this Benny joint .
Larry June is my favorite new West Coast artist . As far as the guys that have come out , let's say post the Nipsey Schoolboy , q Kendrick , all those guys flooding Larry June's tough . Larry June's my favorite guy from this era of all the guys . Oh yeah .
I love Larry June's shit . Here's what I'm saying that we can rate the killer might join . Um , I think both you guys are right and you smoked that man because I do think that he doesn't have a true identity . But I think about big michael looking at him as the um , the ground level trooper from dungeon family .
Right , you got the dungeon family , the Dungeon Family , you got Outkast and you got Goody Mob . I look at them as the bigger threat , right , the ones who come out there , give you everything classic album , dope albums , et cetera . You know Charisma , moxie , all of that .
Then I look at Killer Mike as a ground level threat guy where he's more of a , he's more of a setup guy or he's like more of a little man's to big boy . That's how I looked at him and I think that he's always kind of , you know , went back and forth on what he wanted to be where he wanted to be .
I think he did the activism thing for a little while he was kind of on a whole bernie sanders coattails , um , stuff a few years thing for a little while . Yeah , exactly that's what I'm saying . See , like he's almost to the point where he wants to be a revolutionist . He wants to be a militant . He wants to be a lyricist . He wants to be a pimp .
He wants to be a hustler . You hear all of these different things that he expresses in his music and not one of those things to me stick to your ribs Like . None of those things to me lands OK it's there but it doesn't land .
So his biggest problem might be that it's like , well , you know , he is the son to a woman who was a police officer , but he's also somebody who hustled in the street , so there are some conflicting emotions that probably come with that . He's also a college educated man . You get what I'm saying .
So there might be some conflicting things , but here's the thing about it is that when other artists are those things , the greatest of artists kind of pull those things together , like a Tupac you know what I'm saying Like they pull their education and their street knowledge together and give you something formalized creatively in the form of an MC that embodies
something that you connect to and feel . I don't mind the conflicting reports because he's had conflicting lifestyles Most of us , as black men coming up in inner city environments , do but you still got to find a way to connect , and so my thing is is that where does he connect ? Does he connect to the underground super lyrical backpack crowd ?
It's like , well , kind of . Does he connect to the soulful crowd ? Well , kind of , you know what I'm saying . Does he connect in the terms of being relevant in the hip hop sphere to a degree ? Yes , Right , because he's been . yeah , but does it stick ? Is he the guy that you walk around talking about and want to like , like ?
There hasn't been a point in his career where I think he's been looked upon , even in this city , as the best and so where ?
does that ?
all time , when you've never even been the man in this city and at some point Andre , big boy , luda , ti , future thug , he never had that moment like and when you're around all of these guys and coming off the heels of the dungeon family which is big boy CeeLo , andre Gip , like all those guys , it's just hard to place him .
I agree it's hard to place him because of that , because all those guys had a moment . No , ti had a moment where he was the man in the city Jeezy hold on , even Jeezy and 2 Chainz , who technically aren't as good as an MC as he is , but they've had that moment where they've taken the city .
Thug is not killing Mike on the mic , but his moment in the city has been way bigger .
Yeah , I'm seeing the whole crux of your point , coop . As far as B-level MCs or whatever . If I'm doing this comparison it might seem random as hell . But let's take Sheik , for example . We talked about the locks last episode . I will put him in that B tier .
This is the benefit of being in a group , within being a , you know , instead of being a soloist , because nobody's running around asking like , yo , we really don't know who she , she gives , we see , like , know him as the tough guy in the locks or whatever , which you know they often give off that vibe .
But as far as on a personal level , what do you represent in this space ? Nobody's asking for that . Because you have that image , you can hide behind the image of a group versus killer mike being a soloist even though he's part of a collective in the Dungeon family collective in a group two totally different things .
He has to set himself apart as a soloist as far as what he represents .
So I do see the argument that you're bringing to the table , but I just think you know that we hold , you know , a soloist with that issue , like Big Sean or Killer Mike , to a higher standard than we have somebody who is within a group that may have released solo records , but we're not going to still say like yo , you got to give us , like , really , who
you are , you know what I ?
mean and that's a perfect segue into Benny , because I want you to hold that thought on Sheik as well . That's a perfect segue to Benny . You guys want to rate this one real quick
¶ Analyzing Benny the Butcher's Discography
. Let me get the super chat from Mad Max . Mad Max is wild out in the chat right now . Mad Max said he's popular . Now he said Glorilla is his greatest rapper of all time . Larry Snooze was never dope . His LP is full of stuff . Yo , mad Max is bugging man Mad . Max said that Glorilla is pop man .
Mad Max did that at home . Mad Max , you just say in the comments . You just say in the comments we need to make it a point . We need to make it a point to never give Mad Max a platform . It's never going to be the same if he's given his platform one day . The theme of this show is we don't trust you . And Mad Max , you're at the top of my .
We don't trust you . List . You supersede Sean . I've had to listen to your Mad Max . I've had to listen to your fuckery longer than I've had to listen to Sean's fuckery . See , I've only had to listen to Sean's fuckery for two years . I've been listening to your fuckery for four years . I'm here to support . You're at the top of my list . We Don't Trust you .
I'm here to support when I make the we Don't Trust you mixtape . The first song is going to be called Max is Mad . It's the first record on the we Don't Trust you mixtape .
Shout out to my whole boy , LG . Man , Put my shades on real quick . Y'all talking . Please don't do that . Shades on man .
I already got a headache , bro . Can we go to the next ?
topic . Let's go to the next segment , please , Yo . So the next segment , as I wear my shades on .
We can see you wearing your shades . You don't have to notify people that you are wearing the shades . The shades are on . Make a cameo in front of the Sunday show .
As I so ever gently wear my shades .
We're going to go ahead and go to the next topic . Gently is wild , gently .
As I ever so gently put on my shades . I'm going to read this super chat .
I can't deal with this guys ? Is he doing la-di-da-di for us like the Wizards ? I really can't see it .
My shade is too dark . Let me take my shades off real quick . Queens , get the money . That new bidder just gave me time . Wish it was 45 of that , not the 25 . That it is Either Wasu better than the last effort . Appreciate you , 007 .
What up 00 ?
00 , queens get the money .
Are we on Benny now ? Yeah , let's get to Benny . Let we on Benny now .
Yeah , let's get to Benny . Let me put my shades back on real quick so y'all can take me seriously .
my man , Please don't .
We don't take you seriously . So , mom , shout out to my shades though . So , benny , I want you to guide us through this man . You took a picture with Benny . You had a chance to meet Benny . Guide us through this man , because I know , you know , my man , ag , got some thoughts on it , some skating thoughts . Who said they were skating , making stuff up .
You're playing behind the scenes , so I'm going to prepare the chat so y'all can go right in . Yo shot is wild . So , mad Master , the album is weak , so cool . I want you to , if you don't mind . Why don't you take the lead and guide us through this one , bro .
I think Benny . You know who Benny is . To people , benny is like that five-tool prospect coming up in a farm system for a team , the projections for somebody like a Benny .
When you hear him and hear some of his early material , where he really starts coming on the scene 2016 , 2017 , 2018 , you hear somebody and you're like man , this is a potential five tool player and MVP winner . You know , this is somebody that could hit 350 in a season .
This is somebody that can get you 40 plus home runs in a season , get you a 220 rbis in a season . You know what I'm saying get you 50 doubles in a season . Because that's what you hear talent wise . And so when that guy hits 300 instead of 350 , you're like , oh , it's not what it's supposed to be .
Or when that guy gets 30 home runs instead of 40 home runs , you're like , oh , he's not maxed out his potential . When he gets 100 rbis instead of 120 , 130 rbis , you're like , yeah , but then you look at it , it's like , no , but he still hit 30 home runs with 100 rbi and hit 300 and that would put him in the top tier of players .
And so I think a lot of what is happening to Benny , career wise is because of what we have projected him to be in the media as an emcee . He may not have lived up to those expectations , but when I actually look back at it and this is what I want to have a conversation about it's actually having a really , really really dope rap career .
This project is good . I actually like this project better than Everybody Can't Go , and it's funny because it's like the beats aren't better , the rhymes aren't better , but it feels better . The rhymes are comparable . If you feel like one is better than the other or the other better than the other , the rhymes are comparable . This feels better . It comparable .
This feels better . It does . It feels better . I understand Hitboy and Alchemist did the other project , but part of what Benny is is what you need to buy into . His hustler talk is his best talk . It almost feels like when he's not dealing with the expectations of having to live up to something and he just makes the music that he wants to make .
When he just makes the music that he wants to make , those are his best results . Like here's my takeaway from this project on a music level level if you actually just if everybody can't go doesn't exist , but he makes brawn and big dog with little wayne and puts it on this project .
That's an album of the year contender in my opinion , because I would tell you that that project with those two songs that like this project , with those two songs added to it , I mean I and I , and I wrote our top 10 back down I would easily slide that album somewhere between four , five and six this year with blue lips , one of one by gunner and blacks and
whites , because I feel this project and I think the expectations are what's actually hurting him the most and I'm going to pass it to one of you and I just want you all to tell me what you think of this .
I'm going to list six albums that he's made for you and then I'm going to ask you if Method man , jadakiss and Fabulous have six albums of this quality .
Man Coop . This is crazy , like when you talk Coop and Cooper are like in alignment right now .
That's what I want to hear from you . That's what I want to hear from you .
We are in perfect alignment . Coop Go ahead .
So he has Summertime , butch , everybody Can't Go . Burden of Proof , tana , talk 3 and 4 , and Plugs I Met . All six of those projects to me are four-ish or higher or somewhere in the realm of do Fab , meth and Kiss have six projects in that four range ?
Not six .
No , six , not six , not six . You're talking dangerous right now .
Kool , yeah , you was cooking , I'm just asking people to put it in perspective . Does Kiss have six projects Like name Kiss' best six projects . Name Meth's best six projects . Name Fab's best six projects .
You're not talking dangerous . I'm with you . That's what my thoughts are in perfect alignment with . If you want to go , Sean , you can go next Hold on real quick .
I don't even mean to be too long with it , but I have to get this out . Also , too , benny talks in a manner where some of the shit you have to live or be around or grow up in or have done to feel so some people may not feel Benny to his fullest . You know what I'm saying ? Like I'm going to tell you something on hire .
When he's like you should fuck with us , come fuck with us . That's real hustler talk . That's how . That's how . That's how a lot of some of the people that I've been around that's how they talk to you , coop , you should come fuck with me . You know what I'm saying ? Like that's how real hustler talk .
He talks like a real hustler and so you have to have been around it , dealt with , it , did it sometimes , to really understand the nuances , the way that he's talking . That's part of what made Jay so special . Jay's the first person to make that talk relatable . The expectation since Jay is to make the talk relatable .
It's not a relatable conversation because it's not a comfortable conversation . That's why Jay is special . But that's hustler talk . When he's talking between you should come fuck with us .
That's how hustlerslers talk like that's how real street dudes talk out here that you should come fuck with me , or if you don't see him in a while , it's like yo coop , you don't fuck with me , why don't you come fuck with us ? Like that's how real hustlers talk when they're outside .
He embodies that and he actually talks like that on record , and so it's something that not everybody is going to gravitate to , because you know , understand the nuances of it . If you can't , if you haven't dealt with it . So you're just looking at him on rap terms and he represents something different in terms of what he's providing the streets , you know .
I mean , that's why he's telling you on how we feed the streets . It's like no , like , like certain type of dudes is to like , listen to me talking this and like , feel this differently , you know .
And so his biggest problem may be that when he tries to go too big very much like a Jada kiss it doesn't always yield the best results in the framework of what he does . Kiss doing the who Shot Ya on verses oh no , that's right in pocket with what he does best . When you let him do what he does best , he sounds like one of the best .
When you let Benny do what he does best . He sounds like one of the best for this era . I enjoyed this project . I think Higher is the best album closer of his career and one of his best songs . It has not at the same level because it's the highest level , but when I hear Higher I'm like that's the type of record Jay would have made in his prime .
Higher is my personal favorite of the album .
Oh , it's the best song on the album and the way they close the album is strong because some of the best stuff is on the back end .
actually it is . I disagree with that best song , but I'll get to that in a minute . You care if I go , sean ?
Yeah , please Let me get to Super Chat real quick . Okay , we got Hold on . Who did I miss ? Mad Max said Benny Joint was weak , higher than Beth's joint . Mad Max also said Coop , stop all Kiss LPs better than any Benny project . All Fab sold tapes ripped to the competition . Real Talk project .
Get All Fab better than Benny projects I forgot the other name you said , but better to stop it . Mad Max is not a big Benny fan .
I was glad he brought up fab , like Coop . You know , coop , you cooked that . And I was sitting here teasing the whole time because I was like you're in perfect alignment with what I had to say , but in a different way , right ? So , going with that , the key word you said was trajectory . You know what I mean .
So I think with that , the key word you said was trajectory . You know what I mean . So I think with Benny we got to alter his ceiling than what we initially had . It at right , because where everybody can't go , when it came out now , granted , he put a lot of that on himself .
First major label release , def Jam , biggest thing since DMX dropped , there's Dark and Hell is High .
A lot of those wounds were self-inflicted , right , but if that was his short foray into becoming a star which , when we all heard Griselda as a collective and this parallels the locks talk when we said , like yo , jada , he might be the star of the three , like we need to push him to the forefront , when we heard Benny , it was the same type of energy .
Like yo , to the forefront . When we heard benny , it was the same type of energy . Like yo , he needs to be pushed to the forefront . He's a star , so I feel like everybody can't go was supposed to be the culmination of all that .
Like , this is the star , he's being pushed to the forefront and I think that was a short foray into that , but it was a little bit of a disappointment . But I think let's call that Benny's Zenith in that arena .
Hold
¶ Benny the Butcher's Career Trajectory
on .
As far as being a star .
If Everybody Can't Go is a disappointment , then the expectations aren't realistic . For what we thought it's ceiling to be . It's not a bad , but it's not a bad album though .
No , not by any means no . So I think we need to alter where his ceiling is , because , to your point , Coop his ceiling as a star rapper in the hip-hop space versus this project being perfectly in his wheelhouse . You know what I mean .
So like and some of that might be due to the grizelda sound , but the kind of talk like you alluded to on this album , even though the beats are not as lush , and everything like that . In my opinion , benny doesn't have to be a star . You know what I mean . We need to change that trajectory .
Jada kids some people will say kiss the game , goodbye was a disappointment because he was supposed to be that star , but Jadakiss was still one of the greatest of all time .
I'm glad you brought up Fab as well as Mad Max , because when Fab first came out people were touting him as the next Jay-Z right , and Fab had a very good commercial , know , a very good commercial push . But if you look into that version of Fab versus the Losos Way tape and then the Summertime Shootout mixtapes , that guy is better .
If we stop putting this on Fab to kind of be this commercial , commercially viable artist , then you know , and let him get into his street raps and , granted , it's the music business , you in it , to make money . But the ceiling that we want them to reach on the commercial side maybe it's not realistic and they're missing the mark .
But if you go by their other material over here , that's more in their wheelhouse . Then to me they're better . You know what I mean . So that's the point I had to make , comparing him to Fab and comparing him to Jadakiss , because sometimes the trajectory , you know , is not always met , and so I think we got to kind of take that down a little bit .
For where Benny Sillin is , I think that everybody can't go is his zenith , as far as into the commercial space , you know , but as far as just like as a rapper , I think this project was more in his wheelhouse and I enjoyed it to your point coop , more than everybody can go , it's more enjoyable I disagree , g , because he was the one who said that we should
hold him up there .
He was the one who said that this is so we got to hold him to that . It's not saying let's bring it down because you have under deliver or you underperform . I don't think that he's underperform or under deliver . I think Benny is who Benny is . When you think about someone like Jada , you know we like Jada , you know we .
Jada came off the and we talk about this on Thursday . You know Jada came off the heels of those saying that he was next up . You know he was one of those that . You know Jay said it , big said it , nas said it .
You know you had the Trinity at that time who was saying that this guy Jada , this guy Kiss , he's one of one and he was proving that because he was smoking every track .
I wouldn't even put Benny on over or Styles P , because if I look at Gangsta and the Gentleman as a complete project , I think Gangsta and the Gentleman project is better than anything Benny put out as an MC . I'm not even counting the countless mixtapes that Styles P put out . That was flawless flawless .
If you will go see , the shell goes in the machine , all of those things . So it's easy to say that , yes , we can blow the bar for benny , but that's not fair to benny as well , because benny said the bar should be high for him based on the lyrical output well the thing , the thing about yourself .
You got to be self-aware , sometimes respectfully sean to what youfully , sean to what you're saying , though let's say , a gangster and gentleman is better than all of Benny's best six projects that I just named , but styles don't have six projects that good . Let's cut the mix . The quantity of it ? Yeah .
Styles don't have six projects that sound as good as Benny's six best projects . Because I'm asking legitimately legitimately , it's like show me the six fabulous release albums , because it's like you're going to have to bring soul tape shit into it . Show me the six Jadakiss albums show me the six .
Weatherman albums and you're dipping into the soul tapes and then those type of things . That's more the wheelhouse that we're going to pull from , not these big commercial releases that these guys are like , touted as the next big stars , and then they're falling short .
You know , when you let them stay in their wheelhouse , then you're looking at it in a bad way , where I'm saying lower the bar , I'm just saying let Benny be who Benny is and stay in his wheelhouse and he's going to give us great material .
He don't want that . That's the thing he doesn't want , that he wanted to be as one of the elites . I don't think he's . He has to separate himself enough from his own group . Ok that's how he is right there , and that's the same thing that happened with Jada and Styles P and Westside makes better projects than the whole .
Yes , we put Styles P to the floor Because he's .
Pinero Kiss , he's Pinero .
I knew this was going to happen , but then I'm going to turn around and ask you , well , name the six West Side , gunn and Conway projects better than the six Benny albums that I just named you , because sometimes I feel like , even when we're talking about West Side and Conway , well , understand , three of the albums I just gave you have come out in the last
18 months . Yeah , it has things changing , so it's like no . If you're saying two , three years ago , conway and West Side have a better album catalog than Benny , well , the answer is yes , they do . I would say West Side ago , Conway and Westside have a better album catalog than Benny ? Well , the answer is yes , they do .
I would say Westside , but not Conway . Can you say that today , though ? Can you say that today , clearly , just to play the game with you ? It's like Westside's best three albums are probably better .
But you have to give it to Benny because of the rapping ability .
What I'm saying is that West Side's best three projects are probably better than maybe anything that Benny's made . But does he have six projects better ? Because Benny has six dope projects ? In my opinion , it's not easy to do . You don't like plugs ?
I met I like all of them , but I don't think I can look at them as good to great . I look at them as steady Eddie guy To me he's steady Eddie .
That's what I mean about him consistently giving you a four though Some of our best MCs , who we literally laud and applaud over like a Method man , a Fabulous and a Jadakiss-Z . A-z , a-z , a-z . Don't have six albums , that's a four .
I think that's a tough comparison , though I think that's a really tough comparison .
Do I think he's A on the mic ? No . Do I think he's Meth on the mic ? No . Do I think he's Kiss on the mic ? No . Does he make better projects ? Projects you might .
Let me ask you this real quick Coop .
He's showing the propensity to His last three projects haven't been album of the year , but they've all been fours .
Let me ask you this , coop , what I'm talking about the wheelhouse is you're a Pusha T guy . We didn't start touting Pusha T as a star until he started standing next to Kanye . But you know , even with that said , pusha T's ceiling was only so high at that time in his zenith that he made you know classic records as a soloist and a duo to boot .
Right , but Pusha T is something about him that's more interesting than Benny the Butcher . You know what ?
I mean , he's more fascinating as an artist yes .
So somebody like Pusha , we have to . His ceiling might have been a little bit raised , a little bit higher , based on standing next to Kanye , and then he still doesn't have , like a you know , platinum albums and this and that . So somebody might say he fell short . But that's more viable to apply to Pusha than it is to somebody like Benny , in my opinion .
And if people would let Benny just stay in his wheelhouse , I think Benny would be fine . But you have to be self-aware . Like I was telling Sean , benny thinks he still want to be a star and I don't think that that's in the cards for him just because of today's climate .
Okay , so that's what I mean .
Let me get to the chat real quick , I don't want to get too far behind on it . Ill Magic said if he had some of these songs on everybody's Can't Go album it probably would still be on my list for best rap album of the year so far . Michael Williams . Appreciate you , bro .
¶ Benny the Butcher's Project Quality
Benny is not fab Conway and Benny both got ate up by Fab on Brooklyn Chop House that's one record though that's a verse .
Fam like Fab in a vacuum in a verse can eat a lot of guys up he's got a whole project he's got a whole project with Jadakiss where some of the better verses go to Fab . I'm not saying he doesn't do it , not saying the Freddie versus Jason , like Fab's verse on Soul Food , might be my favorite verse on the entire project .
He has those type of capabilities . That's why I'm bringing him up , because , much like sometimes how about this ? Benny got the better verse than Kiss on God's Don't Believe . He's got very much some of the same capabilities Fab has .
This project . I didn't get to my um favorite too . I forgot . Uh , real quick , minor nightfall . I like that , but my favorite joint as a . It's not a deep concept , but I think kitchen table was really , really dope . That's my favorite by far .
On that like when he flipped that you know I'm saying like yo , we talk about the pirates , blah blah and that whole concept based around the kitchen table I was like man , this is that's my favorite by far . Like when he flipped that , you know what I'm saying .
Like yo , we talk about the Pirates , blah , blah and that whole concept based around the kitchen table I was like man , this is the one for me . Like that joint's really dope . I just wish it had another verse it's dope .
Look man . Benny is a rapper's rapper . Yes .
He's a rapper's rapper . Yes .
I don't want to confuse that with having a total package . Pause , you know what I mean , because if you think about the total package of an MC , there's still something that he's missing Total package loss . You know what I mean . It's hard for me to say he has six legit albums .
It's hard for me to say that I agree with you to a degree , but what I would tell you is that his biggest drawback at this point , based on the last three albums and three albums that he had made in a five year stretch before , that is the time in that he exists now as a new york rapper . Where would you have him as a new york rapper ?
Because what I would tell you is that he would probably be number one yeah , in a different area will be , unless unless , unless you feel a certain way about kiss at that point . So and so . So I feel like he's existing in the wrong era , because I feel like he would be more respected and more regarded as a rap star in a different era .
Because , like , let's not confuse it Jadakiss doesn't have any real big hits other than why and as much as I love Method man most of his hits involve guest appearances him as an actual hit maker we don't make it in .
Knock Yourself Out . We're pretty good hits . They're pretty good hits .
They're pretty big . They're not huge .
Then that one with Mariah was pretty huge too .
He's got some stuff . Don't get me wrong , he was also coached by Puff .
Kiss got about 10 to 15 to clip . I agree .
Kiss couldn't do two verses for a reason , sean , you know damn well that Kiss Best stuff ain't his commercial stuff , and that's the point that I'm making . That's true . The stuff that we rank Kiss for , the stuff that we rank Kiss for all time , ain't got nothing to do with . No knock yourself out or why we did it .
And that's what I'm saying , like stay in that wheelhouse . But , sean , I agree with Coop more about the six projects . You say you have trouble saying he has six four-star projects , but it's only one flaw with that . I agree with Coop , but it's only one flaw with that A lot of these projects are very short .
Very , very short . It's in the same wheelhouse .
I don't have no problem with the range . Okay , I'm with you on that . But if I'm cool with him staying in his wheelhouse , that's my whole point . But my only flaw is like saying he got six four-star projects . A lot of these . If you're a major artist , a lot of these uh songs are going to bleed over into the same project .
So I mean , the way that Griselda came into the game was releasing these , you know , seven , eight song joints and then put them out as complete projects , and I think that lends to him being able to do that a little bit more .
But I do agree with what Coop's saying we're talking about a micro piece of that . We're talking about projects that have seven to eight songs , nine to ten songs , and we're classifying them as four stars . I don't see them as four stars .
This project is only 24 minutes . You know what I'm saying . But I still agree with Coop in the sentiment . But that would be my only asterisk or caveat about it is the stuff that we are calling full projects .
So the projects are short . They're like six , seven , eight songs of recording material , some of his best stuff . Some of the joints are longer , like Burden of Proof , Tana Talk 3 and 4 . Those are full , full , full length players .
Yeah , burden of Proof is about like 11 tracks or something . Let's go with full length players . Yeah , burton improves by like what ?
11 tracks or something . Let's go with the actual .
He's going toe-to-toe with Black Thought on Crowns for Kings . He can rap .
He's going toe-to-toe with .
J-Kiss on Gods , don't Believe . He boxes back and forth with Conway all the time and raps at a high level . My point is it's comparing because dudes is trying to make it seem like he can't walk in and spit with like fab .
No , he can't , but in some ways it's comparing apples to oranges because , you know , jadakiss's albums have , like you know , 20 a clip and it's more room for error , like you know , it's 19 tracks 18 tracks .
My biggest problem AG with Jada Kiss projects is it's like yo fam if you would just cut about five or six songs out maybe somewhere in the middle .
Don't disagree with that .
So we can't knock Benny for doing what Kiss didn't do .
I think the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle Pause .
How about this ? I'm posing this question because what I'm saying ? Do I think he's better than Jadakiss ? That's not what I'm saying . Do I think he's better than Method man ? Oh hell , no , I don't believe that . I believe very few rappers when they rap at their peak . If Method man raps at his peak , can even fuck with Meth on the mic .
Because when he ascends to the very highest level . He's in top 5 , 10 type of rap performer . But I do think that you can start having some conversations because he continues to make high quality projects and the main thing that we rate our great MCs on more than anything else is their ability to make dope albums .
The main reason all of us for the last couple of years that have been having these conversations on YouTube have said clearly that Nas is better than Jay-Z has nothing to do with rapping ability and everything to do with the quality of projects just made just made and so he is making quality projects like the last three projects have all been quality and worth
listening to and playing . That's what I'm saying and , for somebody that raps at his level , I'm giving you some guys who don't make projects that consistently as good .
But like I said , do you feel ? Like he has reached his zenith as far as projects . Do you feel like he's reached his zenith as far as projects ? Do you feel like he's reached his zenith as far as putting projects together ? Like I don't . I think people are clamoring for something that we've seen the apex of already okay , so let's say none of the projects .
The last four projects have been a classic . Okay , because they're not have all of the projects been good yeah , how many rappers are walking ? Around in this era that made four straight dope projects .
Because people act like these guys is like Only Nas , I mean , if you're talking about the hit boy , right .
His last four projects
¶ Debating Discography and Verses
have been dope guys . No , Freddie . Freddie , freddie . I mean , so can I ? Tell you something . I don't think Freddie's made a bad project ?
No , he hasn't . And Freddie's made a bad project ? No , he hasn't . And Freddie's discography of albums I put over a bit .
Okay . So here's the thing . Freddie's discography of albums to me is better than Kiss , better than Fab , better than Meth , better than Styles . It's got a better catalog than all of those guys . It's got a better catalog than all of those guys . It's got a better catalog than most of these guys walking around .
I could even give you an argument it may not be as important , but his catalog in a lot of ways might be better than a Ross or a Jeezy or a TI , because those guys' best albums caps out at about three , four , five and he's like on Dope Project number seven .
Jeezy I might give you , but TI and Ross , that's a stretch and I know Sean don't like Ross , but Ross' discography is crazy it is crazy , like how about this ?
Ross makes better songs than Freddie , but that's what I'm saying . Ross don't have seven albums that's as good as Freddie's best seven albums , not seven .
Freddie's deep into his album catalog at this point as far as consistently giving you a quality project and it's the music business they're making albums for a reason , because that is how you project yourself to the masses . If that , if you could just do this , ain't like 1959 . You can't just do singles and call yourself the best .
You can't just have great records and be the best anymore . The music business doesn't exist like that anymore . It's the reason that albums exist .
What you got . Sean you deep in thought over there Because I'm trying to understand stuff , sean , don't have no deep thoughts .
Do not give him credit like that .
Where my glasses at man .
See what I'm saying about how he doesn't have deep thoughts . He's worried about where his glasses are . Check it .
He got ADD over there .
Wait , look , because I'm about to lose my shit . Man , Listen , we're talking about these six projects that are dope and classics this and classic that , but where do these guys rank on the all-time list we don't have that same energy for them in the top 25 , top 40 . We have other rappers way ahead of them who has a lesser discography than they have .
So help me understand where this discography is coming from . When it comes to look , we can't confuse dope projects with a classic or an overall phenomenal catalog , because we can say that by a lot of the legends out there they have a dope catalog .
But to say that freddie has this , that benny has and all of this , but we don't rank them high enough in the pantheon of our hill pop . And what are we talking about ?
like , I want to understand where's that's why I said the bar got to be lowered a little bit . And then you said no .
I'll be lowering the bar , though that's what I'm saying . I'll be lowering the bar . I want to understand .
I'm just recognizing where people accurately belong in that pantheon , versus saying , oh , they should be here , they should be there .
Okay . So here's where all I'm saying is it's conversational , okay , and I actually learned this from Taj , like shout out to Taj .
Taj and I , about a year ago , were having an argument about a certain topic , about where I had somebody ranked all time and she's like you can't do that , coop , because he doesn't have the moments that those other guys that you're comparing them to have had .
And so when we're talking about Freddie and when we're talking about Benny right now , what they're lacking isn't the album material necessarily , they're lacking the moments . They don't have the moments that Jadakiss has had , they don't have the moments that Method man has had and they haven't made the hits , and the hits are part of the moments .
You know what I'm saying ? Everybody Can't Go was supposed to be a moment , but it wasn't .
Right , you still have to have those moments . But all I'm saying is they may not have those moments to supersede those guys , but understand they're also doing something that's special and hard to do in this craft , which is consistently making good rap albums for the populace .
Even if it's for a smaller populace that's not as familiar , there is still something to be said for that . So do I have Freddie ? Do I have Freddie and Benny over Method man and Jadakiss on my all-time list ? No .
But your keyword is consistent . Consistent is your keyword .
That's what I'm saying .
There is something to be said for the consistency .
Like , yeah , jada Kiss and Method Man's highest of highs might be top five all-time MC material . Are Freddie and Benny that ? Like no , now go ask Method man and Jada Kiss to make four , five or six great straight dope projects , because that hasn't happened yet either .
So you're taking off more points for the range . Sean , that's what you're doing . You're saying they don't have the range of those guys .
No , it's not about the range , it's more than that , because I think that we are lumping in production when it comes to this kind of conversation . Because is there any ? Project that jada kiss um slept on lyrically out of all his projects . Have we ever said ? Man jada did not come with it on that joint no , he does and he's probably might .
You could say that he might be the most consistent lyricist next to black thought that's ever lived , in terms of consistency , which he delivers a stellar verse but what I would also but what ? But what I would also tell you is he may not have a whacked verse , but where's Jadakiss' verbal intercourse ? Where is his rap song ?
No , where is his dead presidents or streets is watching lyrically . Like where you got three verses where you're like , oh my God . That's . Alienwood , though Where's his live at the barbecue . You know what I'm saying , because it're like , oh my God , that's Alienwood , though Where's his live at the barbecue .
You know what I'm saying Because it's like , if you really want to start splitting hairs .
We need to understand some things Name a year . Okay , so Jadakiss is the most consistently lyrical performer on the mic . In terms of the consistency of the bars other than Black Thought , in my opinion , is that a fair assessment to you all ?
Yeah , but Jada's in my top five . His strength is when he's next to other people , like in a group or a feature , and he has the biggest moments and those instead of a solo yeah instead of a solo .
Let me ask you something , though both of you Name a time Jada Kiss had the verse of the year . Name it . That's my point .
So for as great as he's been lyrically .
He's never had a moment where we're like that's the verse of the year how about Benny ? When did Benny have the ? Verse of the year that's why I'm saying you can have the conversation in a lot of ways . He does the same thing Jadakiss does , he just doesn't have the moments . But he also never had the backing that Kiss walked into this game with .
Yeah , and speaking of which , like we're talking , birth of the year . I'm liking that Where's . Jadakiss' birth of the year , though , guys , that's what I'm saying , like he caught a lot of flack for the cold cold having the verse of the year on his project .
But I do like that he addressed it on this on the blue building track , where he was saying like yo , that's my people , we have a real relationship and y'all acting like he was going at me on that song . So I'm glad he addressed that because that was a thing for a while .
Even with that , nas may have had the best verse ever on Ray's album , but Ray was in the middle of making one of the greatest rap albums we've ever heard , so we never really knock Ray for Nas having that verse on Verbal Intercourse . Nobody looks at Ray the way they're looking at Benny .
You know what I'm saying and that might be the level that he's missing is because , well , if Tana Talk 4 is an end-to-end classic , ain't nobody talking about Cole smoking him on that verse ? Because nobody really talks about Nas smoking Ray and Ghost on verbal intercourse . They talk about how great it would be if they had more songs together .
Right , if we're in 2002 , do you have the Major Look remix verse by Kiss ? Where would you have that ? As far as verse of the year contention , I don't think it's clear cut , but I think it's in the conversation it is .
I think it's the best verse . Ag is funny . That's actually the song that I was listening to , uh , before I came online , and I think it's one of his best verses . And I think it's the best verse on that song and I think , if memory recalls , I had it as a top five verse that year .
That will be my pool If I was to say okay in this timeframe . Jada had the verse of the year .
you know you , you , you could , you could argue that like just on a , on a 16 bar like basis . It was up there that year . But look , look ,
¶ Analyzing Kiss's Mic Performance and Versatility
look at how you , you got to pull from that place . You know what I'm saying . What's Kiss's best mic performance in terms of song ?
I'm taking these notes because I'll bring them back .
I think it might be Feel Me . Feel Me might be my favorite Kiss mic performance , that top 20 , 25 all time , because he's in most people's top 10 to 15 . Does Kiss have a top 25 verse all time ? I'm just asking questions , I'm not trying to knock him . I love Kiss . I listen to Kiss all the time .
He's one of the most consistent lyricists out there .
Does he have a life's a bitch . Guest appearance .
No , but those are Zeniths . Though You're talking about alien work , 95% of the population doesn't have it ?
Who was kissing you on the mic , though ? That's what I'm saying . That's 95% of the population . He's supposed to exist in that top 5% , though .
What year did his Mighty D-Block feature come out ? In ? What year was that ?
I feel like that's 2003-ish 2004 ? I think . I feel like that's 03-ish 04 ?
I think that's a talk around that verse , the Mighty B Block .
I love Mighty B Block .
I think some of his best work was on mixtapes . I think some of his best mic performances are on mixtapes . You know when the mixtape era was going on . But at the same time we've heard okay , think about Beanie . Beanie doesn't have a bad album in his catalog . No , he doesn't .
Right , no , so him and Benny , Benny and Beanie might be having some of the same issues . It's like , well , where does your best stuff like really rank all times ? Because ? Because , but , but this is also what I'm saying when he was rapping , like at his peak .
The only guys that I actually knew were better , not thought were better , that I knew were better , were not thought were better that I knew were better were Jay and Nas , when Benny was in his prime . I mean because Beanie , short of Jay and Nas could take anybody's lunch money .
Absolutely . Let me get the super chat real quick . I don't think I got this one . I think I missed a lot of them actually . Oh , y'all want to ?
hear something . Hold on real quick . You know what I ? I got a guy that I know from north philly that actually knows beans , like he actually came up with the young guns , and he was actually telling me that , um , uh , beanie has been messing with the ai thing .
So the ai thing ain't all bad , because beanie's problem obviously has been , you know , the whole voice equation . So the ai he's actually working with some ai stuff to try to put a project out .
Because , man , that guy somebody just be sending a doc that memo as well .
Then I heard dlc's doing the same thing . I just got it confirmed from a direct source from north philly that like he's actually like fucking with that , like somebody that knows the young guns , like no state prop knows the crew , like it's showing me pictures of him standing on the same block with Beans . You know what I'm ?
saying . I mean in that case it's more along the lines of auto-tune , I guess , for a singer , because you're tweaking your own voice and you're doing your own when you're imitating somebody else's . When I got a problem you know what I mean .
No , this is Beanie using it because to help his own voice .
Yeah .
Now you can go to Mad Max's punk-ass super chat .
We need the support . You got to chill on Kiss . Absolutely Mad Max . You got to chill .
I'm not riding Kiss , I'm just opening up the conversation to a different perspective .
This is crazy . That's false . You looked into the camera when you said it .
I'm not riding Kiss , but we have to . Just you said it to the mic too . We have to have real objective conversations Like did you hear how I talked about Not Like Us earlier ? That doesn't change the fact that you're the worst fan .
Kiss is in my top five and I don't disagree with a lot of the stuff you're saying . That's a biased top five pick for me .
I know he probably doesn't belong there , but I got him there .
I'm distributing McCool for the past three weeks now .
When you're talking about Disney's versatility , all I'm saying is how versatile are Fab and Meth and Kiss to you ? Because their problem about entering that upper echelon conversation is they're not as versatile as a Ghostface , a Scarface , an Ice Cube , a Nas , a Jay-Z a .
Tupac , a Big Sean . We brought up Beanie . I mean , we brought up Beanie . Siegel , would you consider Beanie more versatile than Beanie ?
slightly .
Yes , because he had to stand next to Jay .
Beanie's more versatile . Beanie's more versatile than Styles . Kiss Pusha T Pham and Beth .
To me he is more versatile than Kiss .
Beanie makes joints that you can feel the way Kiss doesn't . I'm sorry .
Kiss , don't have a feel it in the way . Kiss doesn't . I'm sorry , he makes personal noise .
Kiss , don't have a feel it in the air he don't .
He doesn't have a K-I-S-S-I-N-G .
He feels something going on , can't tell me nothing different , my nose itching . He can do something that the other person can't . Kiss , don't got that . Beanie lyrically can do Black thought , nas rock in type of stuff , but can also make you feel like a scar face or ghost face , like he's yeah he is more personal .
He has the emotion behind it .
He has the emotion , yeah but beanie can't hop on the joint . Like the um the maya joint , the um best of me , and like i't agree with that .
I just think he never got the opportunity because he existed at Jay's peak , so he was never going to get those opportunities . I don't agree with that . If he would have been given the same opportunities as Kiss , he would have blazed it .
I don't know , because that's what Jay said . Beans , I ain't trying to change you to put you on some game . Make the transition , how about this ?
transition the streets of the fence .
It's funny getting mixed songs like that .
You know I personally like Prodigy more than all of these guys , but I can't tell you that that's Queens . Get the money coming out , you should .
You're supposed to feel that way , cool ?
But if we're looking objectively , go look at P's best projects , like the Nate Mobb Neat projects .
I don't want to talk about that , because HNIC did feel flat , hnic 2 wasn't , god bless . How about this ?
Here's how I look at Benny's projects . Most of Benny's projects are actually like HNIC level , except for he's got six of them . Yeah , but HNIC's not a classic . Not a classic . Hnic , feel sure it's a classic . In Queens it's not a classic . I'm not being funny when I say this .
That's not a hip-hop classic , that's a New York hip-hop classic , kind of like Compton's Most Wanted . Compton's Most Wanted for people isn't a hip-hop classic , but it's a classic . Alvin Cali .
It still could have been better , because what we thought as fans is like yo , if P go on a solo mission and one , it didn't have enough havoc on production on there . No disrespect to Alchemist . But if P goes on a solo mission like man , because he's obviously the better guy at Mobb Deep , this is going to be out of here .
And when P dropped H&IC in the Mobb Deep albums . Up until that point , you're not putting H&IC over anything , except for you know what I'm saying their first joint . You know what I mean Juvenile Hell . That's the only one you're putting it over . You're not putting it over murder music . You're not putting it on Hello Nerf .
You're not putting it over Infamous .
They can't write after murder music .
This is what I'm saying , though Return of the Mac and HNIC . I mean Benny consistently operates on that album , album-wise at least . I can agree with that . I can agree with that . Does he have a quiet storm or a shook one ? It's like well , no , first of all , most people don't have that that's what .
I'm saying he doesn't have signature moments you got to have a signature moment . He doesn't have a signature moment .
He doesn't , he got some stuff out there . Matt said Benny , not even Juel's in 03 .
I would disagree with that .
I disagree with that .
That's wild man . Juel was on fire back then , though he was on fire .
But damn , he was on fire Until they made Diplomatic Community Part 2, . I would never forgive them for making Push it Okay your big B-pop .
That was crazy when Mad Max is saying that . This is what I mean about putting some sort of level of respect on Benny's names . What's Jewel's six best projects ? Why are we having this conversation ?
Who Don't do this , man , mad Max ? No , we're going to do it .
Can you name six Juel's projects ? That's wild talk .
You can't , but let me get to Super Jazz .
Don't do that .
If I don't have a classic song , but his catalog is better than Kiss or Meth or Fab , who have classic songs on some of these projects . I mean Breathe from Fab is better , better Than Kiss or Meth or Fab , who have classic songs on some of these projects I mean Breathe from Fab is better than anything .
Freddie's song Singular song but cohesive project .
That's a different thing , that's a song . But for 50 songs I'll take Freddie over Fab . You pull out your best 50 Fab songs . I pull out my best 50 Freddie songs .
We'll see 88 Spence Fucking Dangerous Spence Mad Max . We're going to make it Coop . Stop it . Kids blacked out on that . 88 Spence . Love this conversation , appreciate you , bro . Cj the Kid . Style's very versatile . I'm shocked Coop . We are shocked CJ the Kid , not like Beans . Not like Beans Beans has feel in the air I'm trying to tell you .
Beans is not like Beans . Beans has feel in the air . I'm trying to tell you Beans is different , guys . Okay , beans is very much like Scarface , but more lyrically inclined than Scarface , and Scarface is a top 10 , all-time rapper , easy .
This is a dope combo , but we're kind of going all over the place . We threw a lot of names out there , so I want to just circle back around to my initial point . So we threw out Jada . We threw out fab .
We threw out styles , we threw out Siegel , we threw out I'm not going to say um Freddie , because Freddie is in the same , like you know , class or whatever .
Prodigy .
Prodigy . So is that the quote unquote proverbial bar that I'm talking about ? I threw out , push a T . Is that the quote unquote proverbial bar that I'm talking about ? I threw out , push a T . Is that the bar for Benny that I'm talking about ?
Because to me that's realistic versus thinking that he's going to hit that DMX , jay Nas you know what I mean , that sort of stuff . So that goes to my point . With Sean , we got to lower the bar down All these names we've been comparing and throwing out . I think that's a realistic bar for Benny . Is he there yet ?
To Coop's point on the project making he checks that box but moments , he's not checking the box of some of these other guys . But I think lowering the bar to that tier level is more appropriate for Benny than thinking he's going to be based on his initial trajectory Like yo . This guy could be the next J . It's not going to happen .
Let's call it what it is .
Oh no , my expectation was never for that to happen . Like when I heard him , I heard somebody that could be top five for this .
I never thought he was going to make the top five but it's a lot of people that was touting them that that high , you know what I mean Respectfully to him , it's like , well , he might be doing more with less , because I don't think his ceiling is a Beanie Seagull or a Jadakiss ceiling either .
¶ Comparing Hip-Hop Artists and Impact
We got to drop in some more , or a Method man or Pusha T .
Why be dropping so much ?
though Meth , on voice alone and delivery alone , has a talent like supersedes 98% of the guys who have ever lived . Just like literally off delivery and voice . The fact that he can actually wrap his ass off is just like . Meth is a 99th percentile type of MC .
He is going back and forth with Biggie on the what and it is a conversation about a better person .
He can do that . But , sean , you acted like we shooting you . Well , me , I ain't gonna say what you acting like I'm trying to shoot Benny uh Bell versus just like calling a spade a spade , like it's the fan base and his self-projections that's putting them up there . I'm like that's never going to happen .
This is more so you're sealing where you're going to be at and then I think that's just being a realist on this .
We have to keep it above and keep it right there , because if we're saying that Benny has six dope projects or six phenomenal projects , but we also have to lower the bar , or we also have to say this is a ceiling , it's not adding up to me . Pardon me , I don't understand that .
I don't understand that kind of talk , because what I'm saying is yes , method man doesn't have six stellar projects . Um , a lot of that has to do with direction and a lot of that has to do with production as well . A lot of that has to do with so many different factors .
When you're talking about comparing that to that , you know , I mean , even when you think about beans so many things play a factor into his catalog versus someone else's catalog .
Even with kids . Here's where your , your argument is flawed . We talked about common a few weeks ago . Common has six dope projects , but we're not comparing them to Jay-Z or Nas or , you know , Scarface or these guys .
Because they're not on that level . There's different , there's levels to this ?
No , no , no level . There's levels . To this ? No , no , no , because his best moments , even though musically , if it matches , hasn't had the impact of those guys' best moments . Exactly , that's what I'm saying . Like B has an album I find to be comparable to a Get Rich or Die Trying a Supreme Clientele .
A Blueprint , a Stillmatic , stillmatic , uh , college dropout , but it didn't move the meter the way those projects impacting the culture .
But the music is there , it's there and to your point , sean , we don't have to lower the bar for comment because it's already rightfully placed where it should be benny's that's my whole point . Benny's bar is not where it should be . It's too high , and that's fine , that's okay .
But he's not going to hit that bar that the fan base and himself have set for him , and I don't mean that disrespectfully .
I'm just being real . I think his bar is that Jada Kiss , Pusha T , Freddie Kidd , Style P , Fab , Method man , whereas I don't think any of those guys , I think Kiss would be the closest one to top 10 . Objectively , Kiss or Meth .
Kiss or Meth , yes , but even with putting Meth there , a lot of Meth's placement there would have to do with the Wu-Tang work and him being the star of the most lyrical crew who ever lived .
Pusha T or Fab would be more appropriate .
Right , so do I think that he's as good as ? First of all , I think Pusha T's better than Fab . I'll just go ahead and say that , and everybody can go ahead and hate me for it .
Yeah , no question .
And I think Daytona's better than everything Fab ever made . And Hell Hath no Fury .
Do you think Push is better than Jada ?
No , I think that's a conversation .
It's a conversation , but I'm going to say no . I don't think it's a conversation .
Here's where I'm bringing up the album-making process . Well , Daytona's , better than Kiss the Game . Goodbye and Hell .
Hath no Fury's better than anything the Lox ever made . I agree with Hell Hath no Fury is better than any last album . But if I pull the seven best songs off , Kiss the Game Goodbye , then we not even having to talk about it better than they told us , but it's not our fault .
Jadakiss keep making 16 to 19 track albums .
Yeah , but the seven song album wasn't a thing in 2001 . That was like called an EP back then . Right , it was a true EP .
It's not Pusha T's problem , it's Jadakiss' problem . That's Jadakiss' problem . Nobody told you to make 17 records on your day-to-day album Nah , I'm with that . Some records should have been cut . If you take the 10 best albums , I mean the 10 best tracks on Kiss the Game , goodbye , and that's the album .
Oh , you got a whole another conversation about the entirety of his career , but he didn't do that . That's not my problem , that's not push a tease problem that's quality yes , daytona's better than kiss . The game goodbye hell .
Have no fury is better than whatever you think is the best locks project , and it's actually not close in that regard and lyrically he's comparable to jada kiss and so I would like yeah , I would probably have him personally slightly ahead . Where I would put Jada Kiss ahead of Pusha T , is that much like with Benny ?
Oh , he hadn't had the moments that Kiss has had .
Not even close .
And so Kiss would edge him out .
But that would probably be based on the gravity of the impact , because on some album , making shit in a group or solo , pusha T is actually better and lyrically just as good in my opinion , but has not had the moments Because , much like Jada Kiss , it's like as much as I love Pusha , it's like I don't know where his verse of the year is either .
Better verse on hunting season Coop .
Kiss Push , I got Kiss . I'll tell you what Coop you get Push AG , you get Benny , I get Kiss . Hell no .
Why you put me in the basement , he said why'd you put me in the basement ?
You know what I mean .
Look how Sean be doing . I should get Kiss Just cause he's in my top five .
But you shouldn't know Kiss , kiss is spitting . Read the Super .
Chat .
Sean , before I hit him on somebody to start a whole new life . Mad Max said Fab 50 smoking is Freddie Gibbs . That's crazy . Freddie Gibbs , peace homie , $5 , super Chat Is it Benny ? Don't have signature moments ? Or his signature moments don't have impact ? Good point . Joints like 97 to hold rubber bands and weight Are these not signature moments ?
Nah , they're not .
Hold on Both of those records , though they show when he exists on that level and he makes that style of record , though what I'm saying is consistently making records like that at that level can get you somewhere in this game . There's different ways to make it to the top , like how about this ? The guy that we have , that we all respectfully have , number one ?
I mean , he's not exactly known for his hit-making prowess .
No , but there's enough hits there .
But the thing about there's enough to buy in , but where he wins ain't with the hits , no , no , that's not .
But to Benny's moment's point . I think not to pick on Benny , but Benny Conway or Westside I think the best moments have come as a collective in Griselda . Versus any of them individually , the sum is greater than the individual parts . I think that's the case with them .
Yeah , lp .
There's different ways to do it . When we're ranking , Go so high , we're doing that about his solo output and then it's like , oh , the icing on top is all that Wu-Tang shit .
Yeah , he's hitting me with the mask . You got to give points for that .
I'm giving bonus points for the mask . You got to give points for the mask .
Bonus points for the mask . Always Speaking of the devil's sight , it's the God . Get your shit right . You've got to get more points for that . Come on , man , don't be a fan .
Don't be too much of a fan . Calm down your fandom , Sean . I'm getting started , man .
I'm thinking of Dominican . Slash half Indian . Don't go on mustache Drop too much . Can't say that he can't come up with that . Come on , man .
Benny can't come up with that Come on man , you get the LP super chat , yeah , my bad , oh my fault .
One second LP . It's a different time . Fab Jada , beans and them dropped on the mainstream level . If Benny Freddie dropped in 98 , they'll be there If you switch roles . Beans is a Griselda rapper , it's the Toms . I do not disagree , that's a very good point .
That's all I'm saying about me . Is that , well , benny's biggest issue is actually the time that he came out and the guys that existed before him that do what he does Because , no , I do think Siegel is better , I do think Kiss is better , I do think Quintin T is better . That don't mean he don't have a place .
And part of it's Sean's fault , because you know what I'm saying . Those guys are from like different boroughs . They try to , like you know what I'm saying hate on like Buffalo , like they ain't really like repping New .
York . All you have to do is tell me that it's Sean's fault .
Yeah , it's that elitist mentality , man they was repping't know about Buffalo .
That is crazy .
Y'all didn't even do the locks like that back of the day from Yonkers you know what I'm saying ?
Because kissing those guys at their hairline , being in hairline , is jacked up , so it's hard for you to be able to be like yo .
Read the super chat .
How about this ? And this is what I mean , about how I have Pusha T ahead . Well , when the locks and Dipset were like running New York , quote unquote . Well , the best East Coast music that I was listening to was coming from the Re-Up gang .
Mixtapes . So , coop , you take clips , I'll take the locks , let's go .
Oh , you don't want to do that , we can go .
That'll be an interesting one That'll be an interesting one , that would be an interesting one .
Okay , I'm all in on that . I'm all in on that Station head , y'all hear it here .
Station head Coop is taking the clips . I'm taking the locks .
Can y'all pull any solo material in that too ?
He going to need it , so I can want anything he need . He going to need it .
You don't want to pause that it's crazy .
You don't want to do that .
My bad . It is crazy what are you doing ?
What are you doing ?
Um sell a good , sell a gossy . I hope I'm saying that right . Um kiss alchemist should happen 15 years ago . Yeah , I agree , I agree .
I'd like to see him do a whole kiss project . I think that would be crazy .
What are we raising ? What are ? What are we rating this ? Benny , this is what I mean . He does spark debate because look at how we've just kind of like toggled through like a lot of different conversation because of the type of polarizing MC that he can be as well . But what are we ranking this project and what's his ceiling ? All time would be my .
I got it at three and a half .
Okay .
I can do with that . Three and a half , I can do with that and the ceiling is what I said .
Like you know , I think all time is more appropriately fab . Uh , going a little bit further maybe , I don't think he'll attain um put your t level . I don't think he'll attain beanieer T level . I don't think he'll attain Benny Siegel level , definitely not Jada Kiss , definitely not Method man For spitters . I think that Fab level Is the bar .
I think that's the bar .
Where do you have Fab all time AG . Top 30
¶ Debating Benny the Butcher's Potential
. So you think Benny can eclipse fab and make it into our top 30 ?
I don't know about eclipse , but he'll be in the conversation . He'll be within the same grouping , like , if not top 30 , maybe somewhere within 35 . I think him or Conway . I think they're both neck and neck . Where they can , either one of them can get that spot .
Do you think at this point , where they currently stand , they're top 50 MCs all time ?
Top 50 ? Like yeah , just off the top of my head , yeah , top 50 .
That's very hard . That's very hard to do in this climate , because how many MCs from this era are in the top 50 ?
I agree with that . I agree with that .
Let's not piss all over , it is all I'm saying .
Do you agree with Fab being towards the bottom , bottom of top 30 ? You know what I mean Somewhere in there .
I objectively would probably have Fab somewhere 30 to 35 , if we're talking objectively . But I think Conway and Benny are in that realm and still have more in front of them . I like , I think , where fab is in terms of his placement . I feel like benny and conway are still going in a right there right , and this is why this is why moments are important .
coop , because this just popped in my head um fam fab is a better spitter overall , I would say , but Cam's moments trump anything Fab did . So I got to rate Cam higher in that top 30 than I would Fab .
OK . So do you think it's unrealistic to say that Benny and Conway can pass Fab and Cam ? Do you think that's unrealistic ?
I think it's unrealistic for me , for Cam , I don't think they will , for Fab , it's in the conversation .
See , okay . So when you're saying that about Cam and I love Cam I prefer Cam over Fab too , so I would tell you that . But what I would tell you is that it's just a few slots over . So if I got Fab at 33 , I'd probably have Cam at like 28 , 29 .
You splitting hairs . But right now , here's the problem . We mentioned Styles P and we mentioned Sheik early in the show . I personally wouldn't put , even though the solo albums are not there . I personally wouldn't put Benny over Sheik Shit .
I would not be mad at that . I'm not doing that . I would not be mad at that .
What I would tell you . That's the AG . I will not be mad at him .
That's the AG . I know the other guys on some other stuff , but that's the AG , I know .
I hope both of your internets go out so I can just take over . Mine literally did an hour ago what I would tell you . The ceiling for Benny for me would be to crack the top 25 , which would put him in the Styles and Beanie Siegel range for me .
Okay , that's fair , I think he can pass Fab and can buy hair , but I think the ceiling for it long-term would to be in that 25 , 26 , 27 conversation .
I got Bleak higher . No , I'm joking because I just want to trigger Sean . I just want to trigger Sean . No , I like Bleak , I'm a fan of Bleak , but Sean gets triggered every time I talk about Bleak having dope stuff .
But to your point , coop , I think we rank Beanie higher because Beanie was spitting next to Jay on so many tracks , like getting Jay and then holding his own . Yeah , and I don't really . Even though Benny's been on tracks with a lot of people , he doesn't have somebody .
You know how they say when you hoop and you play with Cass is better than you , so you can . You know still sharper , still you can get better right . You play with the older kids and stuff . I don't think Benny has that person that he collaborates with frequently that's going to push his pen .
He probably looks at Conway like that because their relatives and they're older and he came up under them , but he doesn't have that figure like Beans had Jay to really push his pen all the time .
Right . As much as I love Conway , Conway's not Jay .
There you go . Conway's , not jay there you go .
You know conway's not jay um , and in a lot of ways to me , benny's not beanie . But what I am telling you is is that he can have the type of career because it's still going right now where we can look back at his career and be like , no , he's got enough to be over a styles and a beanie seagull , a Cam and a Fab .
It's like , no , he has that capability and I think that's saying a lot . Now , do I think he's going to jump into that next tier where , like Method man , pusha T Black , thought Common , like DMX , like , do I ? Think he's going there , I mean . I'm saying this is like well , very few people have been as impactful as DMX and he's not in my top 10 .
And I love X , I agree .
X is a top 10 to me , so the impact is everything . Either X would be top 10 .
OK , so this question is for you to , for you to decide who's right between me and Sean . We come to a fork in the road . You say he can do that and achieve that . I say that if he stays in this wheelhouse that he's used to that he can achieve that . And stop setting the bar to crazy expectations , thinking you're going to be a star .
Just stay right here where you're comfortable . Sean says that he's not versatile enough and doesn't possess the range and therefore he won't hit that unless he gets this different tools in his tool bag . What do you say to that ?
No , no , no . I'm with you because I think I'm with you , like , first of all , because you're against Sean . That's the first part . I'm not going to let Sean win in the first part . Yo , that is nasty , yo , that
¶ Benny vs. Hip-Hop Legends
is nasty . The second part to that would be I do believe , musically speaking , that when you organically do what you do best , the best that you have to offer is going to come .
And so I feel like if he will double , down on what it is that he does best .
I feel like he might start making records . Possibly are going to come naturally , man , it'll come naturally . Like like part of why I think higher is the best song on here is because it's like oh no , it feels natural and that's his level .
And if he can continue to make records like that and you get in the habit of making records like that at that level , oh no , something is going to come from it . Yeah , everybody's , everybody's not gonna make a hard knock life . Like like there's different ways to do it . Like part of why I bought up x , x , did this with .
Get at me , dog , and stop being greedy .
Don't tell me it can't be done so yeah , sean you lost and going for it .
That's the best part .
And to your point , coop , we know who Benny is more than we know who Killer Mike is . Circling back to that we do , we do .
We know him more than we know Big Sean , that's what I mean . And he's like when he's on hire and he's like come fuck with us . I'm like , oh , that's a hustler , yeah , hustler . That's a hustler like , I know who he is , who he's speaking to , where he's coming from .
It's identifiable to me no doubt so we're giving Benny a three and a half , we land on three and a half . Do you agree with that ?
I would give it a three , seven , five . I feel like the things that I'm going to knock it for is that beat wise . I do think everybody can't go . Has better beats but , I , feel like he actually sounds more comfortable on this album .
I think the rapping is better on this one I think the album flows better , I think I think the bar work is comparable , but he says more noteworthy punchline rapper stuff on this project , yeah , and so I feel like I almost feel like I wish that he would have actually just waited and taking the best from both projects and released one album , because I think we
would have an album of the year contender . Because when I listen to both projects and when I listen to both projects and , and what's the best of both of them ?
Well , the only rap , the only albums , if you were to put the best from both projects together , that I think I would still say might be better is the rap city , the I am god and the paisley dreams , and I'm not sure about that . And so I feel like you would have an album of the year contender had he just condensed all but here's the problem .
I agree with that coop . Here's the problem rappers sometimes put themselves in the box and it ends up shooting themselves in the foot . And you know , because they can't get out of that box because , like you said , you can pull some of the joints off this project and put it on every uh , body can't go and it's better .
But if you market it as oh , this is going to be half alchemist , this is going to be half hip boy .
So if you're doing joints , that's dope , that's produced outside of those two producers , and you're like damn , I gotta put this to the side over here for another project , because I'm marketing this project to be this , then that's putting yourself in a box and having certain confinements .
That's really limiting yourself , because some of these songs will would have elevated that project . You know what I mean .
So yeah , like I feel like braun should have been on this project . I feel like it would have been more appropriate for the end of the summer . I think he would have given himself better push and buzz behind this project . I would have preferred to hear Braun on this project , I think . How about this ?
Unless they would have lost and got the LeBron's medal .
I guess , Just Braun alone for me would have pushed this project into an easy four range maybe 4.25 . And I feel like the buzz behind the album and behind the record would be different , because I also feel like what happened because of the expectations that were self-inflicted by him . He had the records , but when you start talking , it's dark and hell is hot .
Yeah To us .
No , you can't do that to us , because what you're ?
Essentially saying is I'm about to make a top 20 rap album , because that's what this dark and hell is out of that's why he had to spin the block again , coop , because he knew that it didn't do what it was supposed to do no , and it's smart of him , but it's not out of his fabric of character to pull up and do two , three projects a year it's not , it
was quiet as a church mouse with this one , though .
He ain't said nothing . You want to ?
know what ? Because he knew that he didn't meet the expectations and he wanted to let the record speak this time , and I feel like it did , and that makes me question was it ?
did he really feel that way about Everybody Can't go as his own project , or was Def Jam gassing them to say those things for promo purposes ?
Oh truth , truth , truth . Probably somewhere in the middle . It's both . You got to get some excitement around .
It's a major release on Def Jam . You got to get some excitement about it . He's the one he was , and I think that's where we are right now , and I think that's where we are right now .
I can't speak for you guys , but I think that's what I'm hearing from you , because I think that we're comparing Benny to the 90s and the 2000s and he's like a soldier out of time . He's here in 2024 and he's the closest thing to that ilk that we enjoy Right .
Right . So it's easy to say yeah , he has these many dope projects because he's amongst a lot of not so stellar projects coming out right now To your initial point , when you was talking at the beginning of the show , sean . It's like somebody being a lockdown defender in today's era , exactly .
You know what I ?
mean yeah . I was going to say you want to stand out . Like you know , the weaker competition .
Well , his biggest problem is that what he does , the guys before have done it better and had more impactful moments Like Griselda doesn't have a grind .
Yes , cool . In an era that applauded it , in an era that championed it , we championed knowing that Kiss was coming Pause . We championed knowing that Fab was coming Pause . We championed knowing that Fab was about to drop something . We were ready for it .
This is where it becomes unfair when people are like Benny . Subject matter is the same . I've been listening to Pusha T rap about cocaine and I've been listening to Jada Kiss and the Lox murder half of New York City since I was a teenager . They have been pushing weight and busting caps in niggas ass since I was a teenager .
Don't talk to me about being redundant when Pusha T has pushed more bricks than the third piggy , a whole brick house full of bricks . Don't tell me that I still get excited to hear him build a house of bricks the same .
I still get excited to hear him build a house of bricks the same way I still get excited to hear Jadakiss Styles and Sheik murder half of the city when they drop an album . Everybody's getting a blicky to the face when the locks drop an album .
That's a fact .
Absolutely , they're great at it . That's what I'm saying . He's being held hostage by the fact . Well , the guys before you did it better . It's like , ok , that guy's not great though .
Yeah , just stay in your wheelhouse , man , and like how about this ?
Let's look at it like this . Let's look at it like this who are your top five small forwards all time ?
Let's look at it like this who are your top five small forwards ? All time Got to have Braun , larry Bird , dr J that's what three . Yeah . I'm throwing Scottie at number four . Oh no , no , no , Durant , you got to put Durant and then Scottie . I put Durant . Durant would be third . I would say Braun Bird Durant , Dr J Scottie , that's my five .
Okay , what about you ? I may put Grant Hill in . I ain't gonna lie .
Grant Hill was a beast .
If Grant Hill stays healthy , I feel like he takes that five spot , that Scottie Pippen's in .
Grant Hill was healthy . I feel like he takes that five spot that Scottie Pippen's in Grant Hill was Braun before Braun he was .
I'm with AG's top four .
Yeah , I can live with that I can live with that .
I would say T-Mac .
If T-Mac would stay healthy , he'll be in there as well , he played a lot at the two though . He played a lot at the two . Yeah , but he classified as a three a lot at the two .
That's fair , because when him and Vince Carter played on the same team , carter was the two and he was the three . I can agree with AG , okay . So listen to what I'm about to tell you . We just named LeBron James , larry Bird , dr J , kevin Durant , scottie Pippen , grant Hill and Tracy McGrady . We just named seven guys .
Do you all think that Jason Tatum is going to end up being better than the seven guys that you named ? No , I don't see it . But he's still great , isn't he ?
¶ Analyzing Versatility in Basketball and Rap
Same thing with Benny , that's what I'm saying is like no , is the nigga Dr J or KD or LeBron or Larry Bird ? Like no , he's not , but much like Jason Tatum . It's like no , that doesn't mean that he can't be like conversational and crack , like the top 10 , 15 in terms of what it is that he brings to the table , that he does .
Like asking him to be top five , like for how he talks , is like asking him to be better than Jay-Z Cool G Rap , jay-z , pusha T , cool g , rep , right , j is push a t . It's like no , not those guys , yeah , for this era , is he a good approximation of those things ? The same , and this is exactly what I mean .
Do I think jason tatum is better than kevin durant or lebron james ? No , am I watching him ball with them on the same level , even though I think all time it's not going to turn out that way ? Yes , he is . I've watched him block kevin durant shot . I've watched him block Kevin Durant's shot .
I've watched him drop a 40-piece on a LeBron team where LeBron is guarding him . So he has the capability to play with these guys . It's just all time . Is he going to reach those levels ? Well , it's like well , no .
I agree with that , coop , and to what you're saying is I think that that's where me and Sean wasn't aligned , because he said you have to evolve and you have to show certain versatility , whereas whereas I said , stay in a certain wheelhouse that versatility card .
I'll put that down on the table , if I can see you as an artist , that you can do it , but you choose not to do it .
What I'm saying about Benny is I'm seeing more , so like I'm not saying he can't do it all together , but to hold him to that bar , like you said , like holding jason tatum to the top five small forwards , is unfair to him because I don't think that he can do that or be that level of versatile mc and that's fine .
But when I throw that card on the table , like this person needs to be more versatile going forward , then I see that in you You're just not , you know , using that . You know , as far as you know what you're , using your skill set . People use that with Pusha T . You know what I mean , but he sticks to what he knows well , which is , you know , coke rap .
But I mean it is what it is .
I think , versatility and evolution are two different things in this . In this case , see , this is what I mean .
So so so , define , define versatility in terms of being a rapper , because here's what I'm saying .
If we translate it to ball terms , it's like you do understand that I just watched two games in the fourth quarter where Steph and KD literally got to the same spots Right To do the same shots , and run the same types of plays in action that they have literally been doing for the past 10 , 15 years .
I saw Mello talking the other day . He practices the same spots on the floor over and over , and over and over again In the semifinal game where KD hit that shot at the top of the key .
How many times in an NBA game have you watched him clear out the same exact way with the shot clock winding down , or with the quarter winding down , or with the game winding down , and he shoot literally that same shot from a comparable spot on the floor ? Is that versatility to you ?
Or is he all time great at pulling off that move when you see Curry come around that screen and give his dribble handoff action and then they swing the ball back ? Is that , is that versatility Cause ? yeah , yeah , but the spots on the floor for 15 years . Katie's been getting to the same three or four spots for 15 years , Aren't they ?
To use your term , doing , I think , is a situation where you're doing all the things right . I think that's what we use . As far as like , versatility , like , show me a little bit more this , that like , like I said , I like kitchen table . That was a hell of a concept . You know what I'm saying for subject matter .
But you know , using the basketball analogy , I'm okay with Benny being who he is . Like I said , I'm a mellow guy . Mellows , one of my favorite players of all time . Did he win a chip ? No , you know . I mean , is he wanted ? Is he in that conversation for best small power forwards ever ? Yes , is he in the top five ? No , but he's .
You want to bring his name up when you list enough all these guys , and that's Like . Benny can be like what mellow is in the Pantheon of . Like you know , he's a bad boy when he gets on the mic because people respect mellows game . But is he those other guys ? No , you know , and that's okay .
So here's how I look at versatility . It's like first of all , I saw somebody chat Chad Katie can score from anywhere on the floor . Like no shit . He's 6'11 with a 7'4 wing stand Absolutely An actual jump shot . Like thanks for telling the world some shit that we've been all right , that we know . Definitely . Thanks for explaining that .
Thanks for breaking that down . It's great . What the hell are we doing ?
What I'm trying to say is is that when we define the versatility when it comes to somebody so like Kevin Durant , when he was winning scoring titles , he didn't have the defensive prowess to make the block that he made in that gold medal game the other day , did you see his reaction , how he timed that block and made that block ?
The KD that was winning four straight four scoring titles and literally came in second three of the other years and could have won seven like that guy is a better score and that's when he actually won his MVP . But this guy's actually more versatile .
I think I know your answer to this , but would you put KD as a better scorer to Melo ? Me personally , I say no . The only thing that gives Melo the edge is the post game . Kd , don't have that .
KD has actually been in the post more than the last couple of years .
He doesn't use it . It's not as effective or efficient as Melo is with his .
That's actually what I was about to tell you . Where I do think Kevin Durant's a better scorer than Carmelo is because he is more of a threat percentage-wise on every level of the court than Carmelo .
Percentage-wise . I give you that .
Yes . You can't stop him Now is KD going to like give ?
a prime Kobe .
Is he going to give a prime Kobe the problems that Carmelo did ? No , but he did give LeBron plenty of problems .
I lost a lot of respect for KD when I saw he couldn't post up Chris Paul in the playoffs one time .
Yeah , that's the point . That's more of a point .
You're a foot taller than him and he's pushing you off the block .
This is what I mean , I know as far as true shooting percentage all time it's like Steph and KD are number one and number two In terms of if you go to the guys that have over 20,000 points and you go to the true shooting percentage , like the effective field goal percentage , it's Steph and KD and they're like tenths of a point apart .
And so when I look at KD's effective shooting percentage , well , is Melo a great free throw shooter ? Yeah , but he's not better than KD . Is Melo a great point shooter ? Yeah , but he's not better than KD .
Yeah , when you look at the numbers , kd's going to have them more .
Yeah , kd's going to have them more . Carmelo's one of the best mid-range shooters I've ever seen . Kevin Durant might be the best mid-range shooter I have ever seen and so , respectfully , he's just better at all of the levels and he does have a better defensive game .
The only thing Carmelo really got on him is size and the post , but that's why Carmelo is a top 10 small forward as opposed to top three or four , in my opinion depending on how you feel about it .
Well , you got the other names that we mentioned Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady , I think , just off of , like , the longevity factor . You got to put him ahead of those guys . You know what I mean , because those guys didn't win anything either .
OK , so how about this Like like if Benny ends up being on the as far as like talking this hustler talk goes . If Benny ends up being on the as far as like talking this hustler talk goes , if benny ends up being on the back end of the top 10 , that's a great career .
Being on the back 10 of small forwards is like it's like if he ends up being mellow like . Imagine being dominique wilkins or carmelo anthony and people are telling you that you're not dr j or larryron .
I could totally live with being Neek or Melo 100% who would be Dominique or Carmelo .
Neek is in that conversation 98% of them would still be Dominique or Carmelo .
That's a fact . Or even Vince Carter , for that matter . You know what I'm saying Because Vince Carter played a lot at the three . So , yeah , I'm cool with that . I'm cool with Benny being Vince Carter . I'm cool with Benny being Vince Carter .
Yeah , that's what I'm saying . I'm cool with Benny being Carmelo . Yeah . Yeah . Nothing wrong with being . Melo . Yeah . Yeah , you can be top ten at what you do all the time . Anybody that can put themselves in a conversation to be top ten at what they do all the time .
In a competitive sport like rap or basketball , where literally millions of people attempt to do it , you're top 10 at what you do all time or you have that type of trajectory . That's an all time great career , guys . Yeah .
Yeah , yeah . And if you do a hunger game style , if you put all those guys in a room Benny Fab , like Beanie , like you know all the guys we named I can't guarantee you that Beanie going to be the first one kicked out of that room . You know what I'm saying ? I can't guarantee that . So he's where he needs to be for the most part in my book .
They just need to lower the bar where expectation is going to be .
Yeah , and that's okay . We still like Beanie . Shout out to Beanie .
I think we've done this so real quick .
Before we go , I kind of wanted to run down our top 10 albums from our mid-season review and ask you all if there are some albums that need to be inserted and if we've listened to some of these projects respectfully from all of us that , uh , when we did the mid-season review that we hadn't listened to yet before we get out of here , okay , for sure .
And I had a real quick question before we do that deep dive Like the LL joint , did y'all like that that single ? Because that dropped ? That was new music With Saweetie . Oh yeah , I like Q-Tip he's in the pocket .
These beats are sounding great . The project's going to be dope Go ahead .
Q beats are sounding great .
The project's going to be dope . So when we did our mid-season review , I'm just going to list off our top 10 albums and we'll repost this and I'm going to ask y'all if y'all have listened to it .
Well , we got Killer Mike . Did we rate Killer Mike ?
Oh yeah , we didn't rank Killer . I'm going to give it a 3 .
I got 3 .
Doing with all stress .
It would have served like I said . It would have served more being part of Michael as a double album instead of his own standalone thing .
Yeah , I mean , we're being hard about our standards and we should be , but if we're giving the Benny a three and a half , then we're going to have to give the Mike a three . Yeah , yeah , I can give him a three , two , five . Maybe Y'all are being harsh today . It a 3.25 . Maybe Y'all are being harsh today .
It's like I thought the Benny was a 3.75 and I thought the Mike was a 3.25 , but consensus is going to rule , so we'll go 3.5 and 3 . So our top 10 rap albums , our mid-season review , were the Rhapsody , what's it called ?
Not oh , the album title Please Don't Cry . Yeah , please Don't Cry .
Yeah , please Don't Cry , I Am Gods . At number two with Blood Suede Stain 2 . Big Hit , game and Hit with Paisley Dreams is number three . Schoolboy Q with Blue Lips is our number four . Gunna is five with One of One Big Hit and Al with Black and Whites is our number six . We Don't Trust you with Future and Metro is number seven . We All we Got by .
The Dog Pound was our number eight , and part of why I wanted to have this conversation is because at my uh , at my behest , we put the mock homie , uh , rich Haitian , at number nine and Master Aces , richmond Hill , at number 10 , even though y'all hadn't had time to really go through those joints and also , at the time that that happened , the Lupe had just
dropped . With Samurai , uh , people were saying Ransom deserved more love and the Crooked and the Joelle just dropped , which y'all had listened to . But I hadn't got to yet and so , respectfully , I wanted to give my thoughts about the Crooked and Joelle briefly .
But I want to hear first , since we have Mock Homie and Master Ace at 9 and 10 , but y'all really hadn't dug into the projects like that Are y'all still okay with that ? Have albums come out since then , like the Common and Pete Rock that deserve to slide in this top 10? .
I do . I think that Hold on , let me get this super chat .
And the Vince Dark Times . We've had more time to sit on that .
¶ Ranking Hip-Hop Albums
CJ . The Kid says so far it's looking like Force would be better than the auditorium . I agree it's shaping up that way Queens get the money . I don't know , fellas , I think we have to put the auditorium in this top 10 now . I think it could jump up to three .
So you think it's better than Paisley Dreams ?
Yes , I think it could jump up to three . So you think it's better than Paisley ?
Dreams . Yes , I think it could jump all the way to three and I think two would be a conversation , but I'm going to give . I Am God to Edge and I like the Makami , the Master Ace . I would probably take out the top ten . It was good too , but I would substitute would substitute samurai for that and I don't think this .
You know we're updating it because of these new projects . I don't think this benny cracks the top 10 . Um , maybe vince , because vince's project I get . Went back and gave it a listen . Um , but if I have to pick between two out of the three to make the bottom , I would say Lupe and Mahami over the Vince .
OK , so let's hold on , because we're going to have to rework some of that based on the auditorium .
So are we ? Oh yeah , I forgot . Yeah , because that's when I add another . Yeah , you're right , Are ?
we clear that we still have Rhapsody and I Am God ahead of the Common and Pete Rock . Are all three of us okay with that ?
I still feel Rhapsody is still number one .
I think the conversation for the Pete Rock comes at number two . I'm comfortable putting it at number three , for sure . The question is do we put it at number two , which I think would be viable ? But I think that's the conversation .
I'm going to push back a little bit and tell you that I still enjoy listening to Paisley Dreams more . I do too . Than I do the auditorium , not saying that it's a more positive album , but it's more inspirational in terms of you know the actual feeling that it gives you .
I feel like on Paisley Dreams , the world that Game and Big Hit are giving you , that Hit-Boy's giving you the soundscape to , has more replay factor and more of a vibe and just a better overall feel than the Auditorium , although the Auditorium technically would be the better album . Are we sure that it's better than our number three Paisley Dreams Like ?
Are we sure ?
I love Paisley Dreams , but it was the .
What's that bud ? I do think the auditorium is a little bit too high . I don't know if I can put it in with three man . I haven't listened back to it since the first week or two , maybe .
I just I love the record , but we talked about moments earlier and the auditorium is clearly , clearly the bigger moment than Paisley Dreams is . Yeah , as well as quality . That's comparable .
But what did that big moment really yield ? Because it didn't reflect in any numbers and it's not reflecting in any hub or replay value . I'm not going to lie . I haven't really gone back to it like that .
I was playing paisley dreams for about a month straight yeah , I'm playing both about the same , so for me that's splitting hairs or whatever , because I I sat with the paisley dreams for a while and then I've still been listening to .
I won't say I run auditorium from front to back , but I do have like a lot of records that I go back to on that present back .
So , sean , you're kind of going to have to break this tie , because for me it sounds like AG kind of wants to put it at number two . I kind of want to put it at number four . Where do you think it lies ? I'm going to be honest , man .
I have it like at five , I have it like right there in the middle .
But you said also drop Paisley Dreams down as well . So that kind of convolutes things a little bit .
No , I mean I just I don't have it over Paisley Dreams . I don't have it over Paisley Dreams .
Oh , okay , I see what you're saying .
I don't have it over Paisley Dreams at all . For me , I think Paisley Dreams is still the better . It's a better album .
So for the album . So then I guess we need to put it at number four . I can live with number four .
So if we do that , so the auditorium's number four . So this is how it slides then Then Blue Lips would be number five by Schoolboy . One of One by Gunna is at six . Are we still okay with that ? Yep , yeah , no , no , no , I'm still playing one-on-one . Yeah , yeah , do we ? Um , do we think that blacks and whites by uh , hit out and big hit is still ?
That's thanks that gotta be there black and whites . Yeah , that gotta stay , so we Don't Trust you is at number eight . We still okay with that .
That's gotta stay . Yeah , I'm still good with that .
I think the point the Dog Pound album is where stuff can get entertained .
Yes , because that would put Dog Pound at nine and Mark Homme at ten .
I think Dog Pound probably just fell Mark Homme at 10 . I think Dog Pound just fell out of the top 10 .
Yeah , I say Lupe got to be in that spot .
Okay , so do both of y'all have Lupe over Mark Homme's Rich Haitian , since we're sliding Dog Pound back ?
I do .
I don't .
I like the Mark better too .
The Mark just sounds better to me , man , the . Mach sounds better .
So we could put Mach at nine and then have Lupe at ten , because I don't think any of the other . The only other album that's slapboxing with that for the ten spot for me would be the Vents . What do y'all say to that ? The Vents or Lupe at ten ?
I personally , after listening to both , I feel like the vince is a little bit more well rounded than the lupe , and so I would have the vince ahead of the lupe .
So if we're , if we're sliding dog pound out of the top 10 and rich haitian is going to be number nine and not move , what I would tell you probably deserves to be in there is dark times by vince over samurai , but I could see it going summer . Uh , dark times , samurai and then the master ace . Well , hold on , see this thing we're .
So what are we doing for 10 ? Before we even do any of that , what are we doing for 10 ?
I think I got outvoted because I said Lupe at 10 , and then I think Sean agreed with you that it should be the Vince . I'll leave it to you . Lupe wouldn't make the top 10 .
Yeah , that Lupe , just I don't know man .
So Dark Times by Vince is our 10 . Now here would be my next thing . Now we still have the Master Ace the Dog Pound the Crooked and Joel the Ace the Dog Pound the Crooked and Joel the Ransom , and two Benny projects and a Ghostface project , a Conway project , a Rock Marcy project .
Y'all want to hash that out right quick , or y'all just want to roll with this 10 ?
The only two projects out of the ones you named that I really love are the Ransom and the Joel and the Crooked , but not enough to crack . I don't think that either one of them cracked the top 10 . I just really rock with those albums heavy but , being objective , I don't think they cracked the top
¶ Ranking Hip-Hop Albums Debate
10 .
Now we had Dog Pound at 8 . Where are they now 11 ?
I think the Dog Pound in the end I would put the Lupe over the dog pound probably .
Lupe , lupe .
So Samurais are 11 .
Yeah , would you put the dog pound in the end with the ?
Lupe Dog pound or master ace .
Dog pound .
Are you cool with the master ace at 13 ? Or do you think that the Joel and Crooked's better than the master ace ?
I like it better , but I can't say objectively it's better .
I like it better . I personally like the Joel and Crooked better .
What about the Ransom ? Is the Ransom better than the master ace ? The ?
Ransom , I'll say , is objectively better than the Master Ace . For me I like it better and I'll say it's objectively better .
Is it better than the Crooked and Joel ?
I think so .
Yeah , so we have . So Ransom would be 13, . And then you're saying Crooked and Joel . Yeah . Then Master Ace , yep . Yeah , then Master Ace , yep . Where's any of Benny's projects in ? This is Benny's last two projects in here somewhere , because right now we're at 15 .
I think now you get into the conversation of this new project . We haven't had a long time to sit with it . I prefer to everybody can't go . But as far as list haven't had a long time to sit with it , I prefer it to everybody can't go .
But as far as list representation , I don't know if I would put it on the list at this point over everybody can't go . I will put everybody can't go next where's ?
about ? What ? About the death of sunshady ? Yeah , sean , that's exactly what I was thinking .
Oh shit , Everybody can't go with .
Death . Where's the Death ? Is Slim Shady in here ?
Oh man , I enjoyed that album , like you know what I'm saying , but I'm the Resident M fan . Nah , that might be .
You think it's better than Everybody Can't Go .
I might . We'll put that M&M like closer to like 12 or something like that .
Yes , you think it's up ?
there . Objectively speaking , like honestly , if I'm being objective .
I would even say man , I'm going to get hated on , but I would say I would probably put it in the top 10 over Vince , if I'm like keeping it at 1,000 .
Look , I think it's better than the Vince .
I think it's better than the Vince . I think it's better than the Lupe . I think it's better than the Vince . I think it's better than the Lupe . I think it's better . Yeah , man , I think . Now , what did we have at ? Nine , we had the Mahami at nine . Yeah .
I wouldn't be mad at putting Eminem at the 10 spot instead of Vince , but that's up to y'all , man .
I really enjoyed that . If I'm being objective , I will have to say yeah .
So are we putting M at 10? . How do you feel about it ?
Coop .
It's tough man first of all , I'm a big fan of the Dog Pound album , so I think the Dog Pound album for me , the Dog Pound album is better than Samurai and Dark Times . I actually prefer Rich Haitian to the Dog Pound album , so I would feel most comfortable putting him at 13 after the Dog Pound album , since we have the Dog Pound album at 12 .
But I'm being outvoted on this , so if y'all want to put him at 10 , we can , if that's how y'all are both feeling . It's definitely better than Rich Haitian to me .
Because actually he delivered , because actually he delivered man Like I think I mean I'm going back to that album , you know .
How about this . I'm actually not cool with it being ahead of the Vince , but I am cool with it being ahead of the Lupe .
Well , of course you are . Yeah , I mean for obvious reasons .
No , I mean , I just mean quality of project-wise .
Yeah , I think it's better than the Lupe as well .
So how about this ? Can we meet in the middle and put the M at 11 ?
Coop didn't even bring up Vultures 2 . He said we ain't even going to talk about that .
No need to talk about that . What is that ? We don't know what that is , because they don't know what they just made and you know what . Just real quick about vultures too . It's a shame that Ty Dolla $ign is getting this version of Kanye . That's all I have to say about that .
Yeah , so are we cool with the death of Slim Shady . I would say 10 . That's my vote for 10 .
I don't think it's better than the Vince .
I don't , because the Vince is more consistent . I don't know , man , we better table this one .
I'm not going to lie , because this is tough . If both of y'all really feel like this album is 10 , then we'll put it at 10 .
I'm just saying for me I would be 10 . For me it's no lower than 11 .
I'm cool with 11 . I'm cool with 11 , too . Ok , so that would make Lupe Samurai 12 . We All we Got by the Dogtown would be 13 . The Ransom would be 14 . The Crooked and Joelle would be 15 . Master Ace would be 16 . Everybody Can't Go by Benny at 17? .
I think we have to . I think it's too early to put this one in , okay .
And so what are our last three spots ? And OK , and so what are our last three spots ? Like our back end of our last one had . Like Ghost Conway , rock Marcy . How are we feeling about those projects ?
Did you say ran .
Yeah , ransom is at 14 .
OK , I missed that Rock Marcy .
Yeah , rock Marcy . I think we had Rock Marcy like at 16 originally , and so some of the people in front of him have gotten reworked , but this would put him at 18 , so he didn't drop .
I ain't trying to be funny , but Ghost probably going to end up being 20 .
I think the Conway and then Ghost . Yeah . If we're missing something , let us know people .
Will we have Lupe ?
again . Lupe is at 12 now .
I think Lupe and Dog Pound need to switch .
I'm outvoted on that , so y'all can switch it .
I think Lupe's better than Okay who was that ?
Dog Pound is at 12 . Lupe's at 13 . That Dog Pound album was really dope . It might be a good album .
And speaking of Dog Pound , you noticed that July came and went and we never did get that Missionary album because it was supposed to come out the end of July . We're in August now and nobody said nothing else about it . You were waiting for that .
I told you . I told you , we talked about it , we talked about it . I told you when we talked about it , all of you guys , all of you foolish , foolish people I think you are getting a Dr Dre and Snoop album and those of you who think you're getting a Nas and DJ premiere album get off the drugs .
And what's even more delusional is the fact that people actually can conjure up in their mind and say after all these years of waiting , I'm going to get a Nas and DJ premiere album . The same year I'm getting a Dre and Snoop album . Niggas are smoking .
Well , nas and premiere is actually happening . The Dre and Snoop , I can't say so much , not this year , though I said it's not happening .
I said neither one of them are coming out this year . Neither one of the projects are coming out this year .
I'm saying October , I'm putting my stamp on it . I'm thinking the Nasa premiere drop in October and that's with no information you keep telling yourself that ?
Yeah , I don't believe it .
¶ Speculating on Album Release Dates"
October .
I told you when we heard Define my Name , I'm like this album's not really happening this year .
September it's not happening .
September . You saying the album dropping in September .
Yeah , 2025 .
I say October , man , but we'll see . I got to slide , guys . I got stuff I got to do .
Going to take my little girl to the basketball practice . Yo , good show , fellas . Shout out to everybody in the chat Like , subscribe , share . Like , subscribe , share . Shout out to my homies Coop and Adriel G or Mike G if I call him that For this episode . Coop and Mike G , back y'all . My bad , my bad , ag .
I was about to say something , but if I say it , no , it's not at the Cooper Mike G .
But no , we appreciate y'all , man . Thank y'all for pulling up on brunch on Sunday . We'll be back . We started Dave E's album . Jack , we got to get back in the lab and think about this a little bit more because Dave E's album was . He did drop like two . I think We'll look at some stuff . There's someone that fly off the top of the dome .
Yeah , off the top of the dome . It's crazy .
Yeah , no doubt man cut the tape , man , let's get out of here . Y'all enjoy .
Good show , fellas , yeah , we got some pretty .