Dr. Robin Youngson: Trauma healing is kind of a shortcut to Dr. Robin Youngson: greater enlightenment and to deeper Dr. Robin Youngson: compassion and to non-attachment, Because Dr. Robin Youngson: if we let go of the pain and the hurt and Dr. Robin Youngson: the trauma then we come back to our true Dr. Robin Youngson: compassionate selves. Dr. Robin Youngson: Naturally it's just so beautiful to see.
Why are so many medical doctors walking away from the health care system? Actually, maybe we need to call that something else. We don't have a health care system. We have a sick healthcare system. Actually, maybe we need to call that something else. We don't have a healthcare system, we have a sick care system, and it's not just in the US either.
Around the world, there are problems with healthcare that are causing many doctors to make different choices on how they want to be in practice, support their patients, support their clients and show up for those they're serving and also themselves to help them heal and to also live well. Maybe this has been your story, and don't get me wrong.
There are so many wonderful doctors and nurses and practitioners in the healthcare system that are practicing compassionate care, seeking to look for the root cause, to not just look at the symptom and to genuinely look by using holistic approaches that treat the whole body right. That holistic means whole body, and I work with many of them as a holistic practitioner myself, and I'm grateful for the work they do.
I work with many of them as a holistic practitioner myself, and I'm grateful for the work they do. This is about the system they work in, not the person, the one that is not showing up for the caregiver. That's what we're seeing a lot, and the word that I want to focus on right there is care, compassionate care.
Well, dr Robin Youngson, you are one of those doctors, with over 30 years as an anesthesiologist working with the World Health Organization, being an advisor in New Zealand with the government on patient safety and healthcare quality and compassionate care, and you're also a fellow Havening practitioner and trainer, which is the work you have gone into, and, my goodness, what a joy it is to have you here, because you're the kind of doctor that we need more of in this world.
So, thank you for being here. It's so good to see you, robin. Dr. Robin Youngson: Thank you, Hilary. Dr. Robin Youngson: I'm delighted to be invited on your program. Dr. Robin Youngson: Thank you so much. Absolutely. I have been wanting to talk to you for quite some time. We obviously don't get to connect too much because we're on opposite sides of the world but we do get to connect through the Havening world, being that we're both practitioners and trainers of the field.
You've been a trainer quite some time as well, but you took a pretty bold step, and I know we're going to talk about your latest book, which is the Science of Miracles, which I can't put down. In fact, I keep reading chapters over and over because it's such a personal story.
But I think, for those who are tuning in, what I really want to touch on first is how does somebody with an entire career as a doctor and someone who actually started as an engineer and got into medicine how do you make a choice to walk away from your practice? How do you make a choice to walk away from your practice and possibly your patients and the system that kept you employed for so long, and you only made this choice in 2020. So we'd love to know that story.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah Well, that was. Dr. Robin Youngson: I'd have to say that was an absolutely Dr. Robin Youngson: terrifying decision to make.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, unlike most of my peers Dr. Robin Youngson: anesthesiologists who earned a lot of money Dr. Robin Youngson: and have a big flesh house and my wife and Dr. Robin Youngson: I have devoted so much of our lives to Dr. Robin Youngson: trying to improve the system, to campaign Dr. Robin Youngson: around the world I actually spent all of Dr. Robin Youngson: our money doing that work.
Dr. Robin Youngson: You know, I'm nearly I'll be 69 in a couple Dr. Robin Youngson: of weeks. Dr. Robin Youngson: We don't have any savings, I'm still paying Dr. Robin Youngson: a mortgage, we're not financially secure.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And to walk away from a job as an Dr. Robin Youngson: anesthesiologist with all that financial Dr. Robin Youngson: security and status and power and Dr. Robin Youngson: reputation, and to step into a kind of Dr. Robin Youngson: alternative healthcare field which my Dr. Robin Youngson: colleagues, medical colleagues, would Dr. Robin Youngson: regard, as you know, woo-woo or strange or Dr. Robin Youngson: even fraudulent, was just an
Dr. Robin Youngson: extraordinarily difficult decision to make Dr. Robin Youngson: and I'm grateful to my wife, meredith, for Dr. Robin Youngson: supporting me in that.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But basically I've spent my entire life Dr. Robin Youngson: trying to make healthcare better and Dr. Robin Youngson: provide compassionate care to the people we Dr. Robin Youngson: serve, and I just saw that there were much Dr. Robin Youngson: better ways of doing that outside of the Dr. Robin Youngson: system and, in particular, having learned Dr. Robin Youngson: about Havening techniques and seeing the Dr. Robin Youngson: miracles that unfold every day in our
Dr. Robin Youngson: clinics. Dr. Robin Youngson: And then COVID hit and in actual fact, the Dr. Robin Youngson: contract medical work I was doing Dr. Robin Youngson: disappeared overnight. Dr. Robin Youngson: So I had zero income. Dr. Robin Youngson: So I had no choice but to make a success of Dr. Robin Youngson: my own clinic, and that was four and a half Dr. Robin Youngson: years ago.
Amazing, when you look back on it, how you've grown over the years and you're really one of those folks that pop up when, if you're putting in Havening on YouTube, you know there's a number of us that pop up. But I have to say a number of folks will come to me if they've never heard of Havening. There was some gentleman that popped up and he was doing stuff about Havening.
I'm like, oh, that's probably Robin, because you really have brought attention to Havening and the world of Havening and just how this is a neuroscience based modality that can help people rapidly heal from anxiety, depression, ptsd, phobias, relationship difficulties, sleep, chronic pain. And you saw that as a doctor. And here you are flipping on the other side and seeing it's not so much about what the doctor does, but what we can do for ourselves and put the healing in our own hands.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, but I have to admit that I was deeply Dr. Robin Youngson: skeptical about Havening. Dr. Robin Youngson: So how I came across it was that my wife, Dr. Robin Youngson: Meredith and I had made many trips to Dr. Robin Youngson: Louisville and Kentucky, which you might Dr. Robin Youngson: not know is under the International Charter Dr. Robin Youngson: for Compassion. Dr. Robin Youngson: Louisville is the model compassionate city Dr. Robin Youngson: in the USA.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Led by a very inspirational mayor, we were Dr. Robin Youngson: invited into the city to try and bring more Dr. Robin Youngson: compassion into healthcare across very many Dr. Robin Youngson: different organizations across an entire Dr. Robin Youngson: city. Dr. Robin Youngson: And that was the home of Harry Pickens, Dr. Robin Youngson: who's a renowned Haydening trainer and Dr. Robin Youngson: extraordinary man and a world-famous jazz Dr. Robin Youngson: musician.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And so he became a very dear friend and for Dr. Robin Youngson: about two years he was trying to persuade Dr. Robin Youngson: me to take an interest in Haydening and I Dr. Robin Youngson: said what's that? Dr. Robin Youngson: He said well, you can have the worst trauma Dr. Robin Youngson: in the world and you just stroke your arms Dr. Robin Youngson: and your face and your hands for 15 minutes Dr. Robin Youngson: and the trauma can be erased.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And I'd never heard anything so ridiculous. Dr. Robin Youngson: And even though he's a very esteemed friend Dr. Robin Youngson: and colleague, I completely ignored his Dr. Robin Youngson: entreaties for several years and then he Dr. Robin Youngson: wrote a whole book about it, called 15 Dr. Robin Youngson: Minutes to Freedom. Dr. Robin Youngson: I don't know if you've interviewed Harry he Dr. Robin Youngson: would be a great subject. He's on the list.
Dr. Robin Youngson: To my shame, I didn't even buy his book, Dr. Robin Youngson: even though he's a great friend. Dr. Robin Youngson: But my wife, meredith, had a copy in her Dr. Robin Youngson: room and every time I went into a room I'd Dr. Robin Youngson: see his book on the shelf. Dr. Robin Youngson: It was like a reproach to me, and so one Dr. Robin Youngson: day I said hey, darling, can I borrow your Dr. Robin Youngson: book?
Dr. Robin Youngson: And I sat down and read it and I got Dr. Robin Youngson: intrigued, because he interviewed Dr Ronald Dr. Robin Youngson: Ruden, the developer of Havening, and Dr. Robin Youngson: shared something about the science which Dr. Robin Youngson: intrigued me, and then a lot of stories Dr. Robin Youngson: from practitioners and from clients, and I Dr. Robin Youngson: thought, hey, maybe there's something to Dr. Robin Youngson: this.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So I did what we all do I sat down at my Dr. Robin Youngson: computer and did a Google search for Dr. Robin Youngson: Haydening and I came across a video of Dr Dr. Robin Youngson: Ruden Havening, someone for a severe phobia Dr. Robin Youngson: of bridges.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So this poor woman, while driving across a Dr. Robin Youngson: very high bridge over a waterway in a Dr. Robin Youngson: tremendous rainstorm the rain fell so Dr. Robin Youngson: heavily she couldn't see the lines on the Dr. Robin Youngson: road, couldn't see the other vehicles, Dr. Robin Youngson: couldn't see the barriers became Dr. Robin Youngson: disorientated. Dr. Robin Youngson: She had kids in the back. Dr. Robin Youngson: She thought she was going to die.
Dr. Robin Youngson: She had a panic attack and then over a Dr. Robin Youngson: number of years, the phobia got worse and Dr. Robin Youngson: worse and spread to other bridges until Dr. Robin Youngson: eventually she couldn't drive across any Dr. Robin Youngson: bridge at all, even a really small bridge, Dr. Robin Youngson: and her life had kind of shrunk down.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And Dr she chose to do the Havening touch Dr. Robin Youngson: to herself what we call Havening and Dr Dr. Robin Youngson: Ruden took her through the simplest Dr. Robin Youngson: protocol, which is to raise her traumatic Dr. Robin Youngson: memory, and in 15 minutes and that's how Dr. Robin Youngson: long the video is her trauma and her fear Dr. Robin Youngson: was completely gone and she sat there Dr. Robin Youngson: completely astounded.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And then he said well, should we go and Dr. Robin Youngson: check it out? Dr. Robin Youngson: And she said what do you mean? Dr. Robin Youngson: And he said well, we're not far from that Dr. Robin Youngson: bridge, you know. Dr. Robin Youngson: Would you want to get in the car and check Dr. Robin Youngson: it out? Dr. Robin Youngson: And she kind of looked at him aghast but Dr. Robin Youngson: eventually agreed.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So she drove across the bridge with no Dr. Robin Youngson: reaction at all. Dr. Robin Youngson: And I watched this video and sat on my Dr. Robin Youngson: computer for quite some time shaking my Dr. Robin Youngson: head in disbelief that this terrible fear Dr. Robin Youngson: had been erased in 15 minutes.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And then I began thinking about some of the Dr. Robin Youngson: very traumatic events I've experienced as a Dr. Robin Youngson: doctor, like a young mother bleeding to Dr. Robin Youngson: death in front of me despite my best Dr. Robin Youngson: efforts. Dr. Robin Youngson: Then I had this crazy thought what if I try Dr. Robin Youngson: it? Dr. Robin Youngson: So I rewound the video and copied the Dr. Robin Youngson: entire process.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I copied the touch and I copied the Dr. Robin Youngson: distractions. Dr. Robin Youngson: At the end of 15 minutes I could not Dr. Robin Youngson: connect into my traumatic event at all. Dr. Robin Youngson: It was a race in my mind. Dr. Robin Youngson: I could remember objectively the effects of Dr. Robin Youngson: it and I just sat there again completely Dr. Robin Youngson: astounded and thought no, I've got to train Dr. Robin Youngson: in this.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So I discovered there's a training course Dr. Robin Youngson: in Melbourne three weeks later in Australia, Dr. Robin Youngson: and Louise Kami and Donna Ryan were flying Dr. Robin Youngson: from the UK and the USA to run that course Dr. Robin Youngson: and On the first day of the course I Dr. Robin Youngson: volunteered to be a subject for Havening in Dr. Robin Youngson: front of the class and had my fear, Dr. Robin Youngson: profound fear of abandonment that I'd had
Dr. Robin Youngson: for 52 years was erased in 15 minutes as a Dr. Robin Youngson: demonstration in front of the class. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean that was really life-changing and so Dr. Robin Youngson: that was 2018. Dr. Robin Youngson: So I've never looked back, really. I think a lot of us have a very similar story. That's how Havening came into my life as well. I was not a doctor for 30 years. I did not have a background and I was coming from a completely different field in journalism.
And yet that one day, that first day of the workshop on stage with Dr Ron Ruden, I volunteered as well and I never looked back. I'm like I remember, saying I've got to put this into my practice Because there is a skepticism, you know and. I think that is what's so beautiful about more people in the medical field that are seeing its value, whether they are still in the actual medical system and the healthcare system.
You know, some of the folks I've been recently training are doctors, are nurses, are first responders and at least are taking a chance to see. This is something that could help put the tools in somebody else's hands to you know to help themselves. But that's just part of the story and thank you so much for sharing that. I love hearing that story too. I've heard the bridge story from Ron before and, yes, shout out to Harry Pickens as well. He's wonderful.
We have so many wonderful people in this community, including yourself, but your work getting to this point. I want to go back a little bit, because as someone who's been in the system for so long, and you even mentioned having your own traumas as a child, and you mentioned in your book, which is the Science of Miracles. This is your latest book, which is One Doctor's Journey to Find Hope and Healing Beyond the Broken Medical System. My friends, please put this in your library.
It is a beautiful read. It is such a personal read, Robin, that to learn about you before your time as a doctor, but also during your time and then making that decision to walk away, really, really builds the story, which is different from your first book, which was Time to Care, which sparked this international movement about why compassionate care is so important. So I so, as somebody who's been in this field for so long and then moved away from it, like you just shared.
Where was it where it clicked in you to say I need to write my personal story, Like I need to put it out there, I need to share it this way? Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, so that's a bit of a. Dr. Robin Youngson: It's been a long journey.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I've been working on that book for three Dr. Robin Youngson: and a half years and I've actually written Dr. Robin Youngson: the whole book three times a half years and Dr. Robin Youngson: I've actually written the whole book three Dr. Robin Youngson: times.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And I really struggle to know what kind of Dr. Robin Youngson: a book, because my previous book, time to Dr. Robin Youngson: Care, was written as a nonfiction book, you Dr. Robin Youngson: know, with 200 scientific references and Dr. Robin Youngson: lots of arguments and so on. Dr. Robin Youngson: It had a lot of personal stories as well Dr. Robin Youngson: that really connect to the heart of people.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But we learned on our international Dr. Robin Youngson: campaign work on compassionate healthcare Dr. Robin Youngson: that if you try to persuade people, you Dr. Robin Youngson: just create resistance Because they're Dr. Robin Youngson: deeply embodied in their own worldview and Dr. Robin Youngson: their beliefs and ways of working and if Dr. Robin Youngson: you suggest something different it's in Dr. Robin Youngson: some ways threatening to them or they have
Dr. Robin Youngson: to give up something or learn something new. Dr. Robin Youngson: I learned something new and eventually we Dr. Robin Youngson: evolved ways of not preaching to people but Dr. Robin Youngson: putting people in a circle and getting them Dr. Robin Youngson: to share their stories of compassionate Dr. Robin Youngson: connection and human connection and healing.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And they would learn from those stories and Dr. Robin Youngson: hear the stories in the group and remind Dr. Robin Youngson: themselves of all these precious gifts of Dr. Robin Youngson: caring, compassion and empathy that they Dr. Robin Youngson: have. Dr. Robin Youngson: And what an amazing life-saving difference Dr. Robin Youngson: it made.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So we found more subtle ways of influencing Dr. Robin Youngson: people for them to find it within Dr. Robin Youngson: themselves. Dr. Robin Youngson: So I wrote a kind of non-fiction book which Dr. Robin Youngson: is a kind of mismatch, you know, partly Dr. Robin Youngson: autobiographical, partly non-fiction.
Dr. Robin Youngson: You know I tried to make arguments and then Dr. Robin Youngson: send it to a professional editor and said, Dr. Robin Youngson: look, I want you to review the book and Dr. Robin Youngson: tell me what you think, and spent a fair Dr. Robin Youngson: amount of money on that.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And she was very helpful and she said well, Dr. Robin Youngson: it's just not working in this mismatch, but Dr. Robin Youngson: if you wrote a medical memoir it could be Dr. Robin Youngson: effective. Dr. Robin Youngson: There's really not a single argument in the Dr. Robin Youngson: whole book.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I don't try to persuade anyone to do Dr. Robin Youngson: anything, but if I share my story, if I can Dr. Robin Youngson: get people on board with my passion, my Dr. Robin Youngson: story and my hurts and my wounds and my Dr. Robin Youngson: traumas and my struggles against the system Dr. Robin Youngson: and eventually finding the light, then they Dr. Robin Youngson: might come along with me on that story.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So that was the third version and then it Dr. Robin Youngson: ended up far too long, like 153,000 words, Dr. Robin Youngson: just far too long for a book. Dr. Robin Youngson: There were so many wonderful stories and in Dr. Robin Youngson: one week I cut 40,000 words out and that Dr. Robin Youngson: made me nearly physically sick.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, it was such a painful process to Dr. Robin Youngson: throw out so many wonderful stories, but Dr. Robin Youngson: the book is better for it. Dr. Robin Youngson: So that's how we ended up with just. Dr. Robin Youngson: And then I decided to dramatize it, you Dr. Robin Youngson: know, write it like a thriller, write it as Dr. Robin Youngson: a dramatized nonfiction and really get Dr. Robin Youngson: people into the stories.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So that's that's how it ended up. Dr. Robin Youngson: And then I found a professional editor, Dr. Robin Youngson: beth Derry in the UK, who's done a Dr. Robin Youngson: wonderful job and took it on as a passion Dr. Robin Youngson: project and helped me out. Somebody that saw the gift that you were giving. Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, you mentioned that it was painful to cut a lot of those stories, and what that kind of reminds me of is when we're working with our clients and this is something that comes up and you want to reinforce to them, because sometimes they don't want to get rid of their trauma. They feel like they're getting rid of the story or what built up that story. And it's a reminder to them.
It's like this is part of a chapter in your book, but it doesn't mean you're, you can read, you can rewrite the narrative, but it doesn't take away this, because sometimes people are angry or they're like no, no, if I forget it, it means it didn't I'm. You know, I'm taking blame away from whoever did whatever they did, or the upset, and it's quite the contrary. So when you mentioned that you took pages out of this final copy, what was that feeling that you were truly feeling?
Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, I mean I think you're right. Dr. Robin Youngson: I'm not going to answer that question Dr. Robin Youngson: directly because I want to come back to Dr. Robin Youngson: your point and that is I mean the work that Dr. Robin Youngson: we do in trauma is really all about stories.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And here I'm sitting in my clinic room and Dr. Robin Youngson: you can't see a lot of it, but it's Dr. Robin Youngson: actually full of curious objects and Dr. Robin Youngson: historical things and you know gifts to me Dr. Robin Youngson: from my and all sorts of things, and you Dr. Robin Youngson: know I work a lot with kids as well and I Dr. Robin Youngson: said come in, pick anything up, play with Dr. Robin Youngson: anything, because we're really working with
Dr. Robin Youngson: stories. Dr. Robin Youngson: And the beautiful thing about this work is Dr. Robin Youngson: that I'm very careful to explain to clients Dr. Robin Youngson: that you're not going to lose. Dr. Robin Youngson: If you've lost a loved one in a very Dr. Robin Youngson: traumatic way, you're not going to lose the Dr. Robin Youngson: memory of your loved one.
Dr. Robin Youngson: In fact, at the moment, all you can Dr. Robin Youngson: remember is the terrible, traumatic last Dr. Robin Youngson: hours or days and you can't even connect to Dr. Robin Youngson: who that beautiful person was. Dr. Robin Youngson: And if we take the trauma away, then all of Dr. Robin Youngson: the lovely stories of that loved one are Dr. Robin Youngson: going to come forward and you're going to Dr. Robin Youngson: be able to grieve in a healthy way.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And when we've. Dr. Robin Youngson: You know, every difficult life experience, Dr. Robin Youngson: every trauma, carries gifts within it and I Dr. Robin Youngson: often say that the people who have become Dr. Robin Youngson: the very best practitioners are those Dr. Robin Youngson: who've had their own severe trauma and gone Dr. Robin Youngson: through a path of healing.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And then they bring the gifts of empathy Dr. Robin Youngson: and compassion and non-judgment and Dr. Robin Youngson: understanding and faith and healing and Dr. Robin Youngson: they bring those gifts forwards in service Dr. Robin Youngson: of others. Dr. Robin Youngson: And so when we let go of the trauma, we Dr. Robin Youngson: actually liberate our deeper gifts and we Dr. Robin Youngson: come to a place of compassion.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Naturally, you know, forgiveness is not Dr. Robin Youngson: required because people just come to a Dr. Robin Youngson: place of of ease and healing and compassion. Dr. Robin Youngson: And then they see that, you know, the Dr. Robin Youngson: perpetrator was themselves working out, Dr. Robin Youngson: acting out of their own trauma. Dr. Robin Youngson: Um, and it's um, yeah, it's really. Dr. Robin Youngson: One of my clients was was a Buddhist monk.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I was a bit surprised because I thought you Dr. Robin Youngson: spent 20 years meditating on non-attachment Dr. Robin Youngson: and letting go of anger and you know hurt Dr. Robin Youngson: and why are you coming to my clinic? Dr. Robin Youngson: And it's just a human being like everyone Dr. Robin Youngson: else.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But you know, in some ways trauma healing Dr. Robin Youngson: is kind of a shortcut to greater Dr. Robin Youngson: enlightenment and to deeper compassion and Dr. Robin Youngson: to non-attachment, because if we let go of Dr. Robin Youngson: the pain and the hurt and the trauma, then Dr. Robin Youngson: we come back to our true compassionate Dr. Robin Youngson: selves. Dr. Robin Youngson: Naturally, it's just so beautiful to see. I love how you put that.
It's so true and in this day and age, the word trauma is such a buzzword and there are a lot of words out there that have become buzzwords on the internet and you it's holding space for those because you don't want to lessen what they're feeling or their story. And you're right, it is, it's the story before it's anything. But you can rewrite that story so that this next chapter can be the gifts, the lessons, lessons and the learning right and building that resiliency.
We talk about that a lot in Havening as well as building the resiliency. But for yourself, when you had to make a choice to remove thousands of words and pages, you said it was very painful. Why was that?
Dr. Robin Youngson: Because for so many years years we've been Dr. Robin Youngson: dealing in the most extraordinary stories Dr. Robin Youngson: of human connection and compassion and Dr. Robin Youngson: healing and I mean some of those stories Dr. Robin Youngson: just would move anyone to tears. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean they're just the most precious, Dr. Robin Youngson: profound stories that have been kind of Dr. Robin Youngson: gifted to us.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Gifted to us and some of the stories are Dr. Robin Youngson: just hysterically funny and just like you Dr. Robin Youngson: know, if you were reading a novel it would Dr. Robin Youngson: just be so engaging and funny or exciting Dr. Robin Youngson: and so I just had to throw away. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean there's probably another whole book Dr. Robin Youngson: worth. That's what I was going to say. I'm like what about a second book?
Because those stories, I imagine, are healing for you too. Dr. Robin Youngson: It's therapeutic. For you to write it down.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, I actually cried a lot writing my Dr. Robin Youngson: book because, as a result of my childhood Dr. Robin Youngson: trauma and the way I grew up and then Dr. Robin Youngson: entering into medicine which in medical Dr. Robin Youngson: training is profoundly dehumanizing and Dr. Robin Youngson: brutalizing and I speak about some of those Dr. Robin Youngson: things in my book and really I became a Dr. Robin Youngson: very highly trained anesthesiologist and
Dr. Robin Youngson: intensive care doctor in our biggest trauma Dr. Robin Youngson: hospital, doing all the glamorous Dr. Robin Youngson: specialties of neurosurgery and trauma and Dr. Robin Youngson: transplant and everything else really at Dr. Robin Youngson: the peak of my career, but disconnected Dr. Robin Youngson: from my feelings, and I was always kind as Dr. Robin Youngson: a doctor and I always maintained some Dr. Robin Youngson: compassion.
Dr. Robin Youngson: One of the stories in the book is about our Dr. Robin Youngson: 18-year-old daughter, chloe, when she broke Dr. Robin Youngson: her neck and her back and ended up three Dr. Robin Youngson: months in our biggest trauma hospital and Dr. Robin Youngson: the quality of clinical care was pretty Dr. Robin Youngson: good, but how they treated her as a human Dr. Robin Youngson: being was just so beyond belief and neglect Dr. Robin Youngson: of her basic human needs.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Now, looking back on those times, I mean it Dr. Robin Youngson: was a familiar environment in a hospital in Dr. Robin Youngson: which I'd worked. Dr. Robin Youngson: So I kind of retained, in a sense, my Dr. Robin Youngson: clinical detachment and even though the Dr. Robin Youngson: events that I was seeing were distressing, Dr. Robin Youngson: you know, I was kind of a bit detached or Dr. Robin Youngson: dissociated from it.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But when I wrote the story again, 20 years Dr. Robin Youngson: on.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, I just sobbed because the result of Dr. Robin Youngson: I've done this work of getting into the Dr. Robin Youngson: world of healing and Havening and trauma Dr. Robin Youngson: I've actually healed so much of my own Dr. Robin Youngson: wounds and come back to my full humanity Dr. Robin Youngson: and, you know, connected to my feelings Dr. Robin Youngson: story and I'd write it in such a powerful Dr. Robin Youngson: way and I was able to experience that event
Dr. Robin Youngson: you know, with with everything, with every Dr. Robin Youngson: part of my being, and to to sob and to cry, Dr. Robin Youngson: and it was was cathartic and healing, um, Dr. Robin Youngson: and it makes the story sound and you know, Dr. Robin Youngson: being a trauma therapist gives us the Dr. Robin Youngson: language right of feelings, animations and Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean it's enabled me to write more Dr. Robin Youngson: powerfully and so, yeah, so it's been, it's
Dr. Robin Youngson: been healing. I'm glad, I'm so happy that's been your experience and I couldn't agree with you more that so much of the work that we do comes from our own healings involved in that. It makes you more empathetic and compassionate. We we're coming from that space already, so that's definitely something I think about a lot. And just showing up for people.
It's not just sitting across from somebody anymore like tell me your feelings and writing down and being judged like some therapist versus patient kind of thing. It's a relationship you're building, it's a trust. There's a vulnerability on both sides. Dr. Robin Youngson: And it's.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, I've come to realize that it's Dr. Robin Youngson: pretty much the complete 180 degree Dr. Robin Youngson: opposite of medical practice in terms of Dr. Robin Youngson: the power relationship and in terms about Dr. Robin Youngson: our you know assumptions about what is Dr. Robin Youngson: making a patient or a client better, Dr. Robin Youngson: because in the medical world we pretty much Dr. Robin Youngson: reduce a human being to a complex chemical
Dr. Robin Youngson: machine. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, the entire basis of evidence-based Dr. Robin Youngson: medical practice is a placebo-controlled, Dr. Robin Youngson: randomized, controlled trial that removes Dr. Robin Youngson: any influence of human consciousness from Dr. Robin Youngson: the basis of medical science and medical Dr. Robin Youngson: practice and medical treatment.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So that means that when you go and see your Dr. Robin Youngson: GP, he's not going to listen to your Dr. Robin Youngson: stories or experiences or emotions or your Dr. Robin Youngson: feelings or your beliefs. Dr. Robin Youngson: He's going to measure your blood pressure Dr. Robin Youngson: and your cholesterol and put you on a pill Dr. Robin Youngson: right In a 15-minute appointment.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So the work I do now is the complete Dr. Robin Youngson: opposite because as a trauma therapist, I'm Dr. Robin Youngson: not doing any healing to anyone at all.
Dr. Robin Youngson: As we know, Dr Ron Ruden has given us a Dr. Robin Youngson: very sophisticated scientific theory around Dr. Robin Youngson: the mechanisms by which the brain can heal Dr. Robin Youngson: itself and what we're doing is creating the Dr. Robin Youngson: conditions for that healing to occur within Dr. Robin Youngson: the client.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So we're facilitating a natural process and Dr. Robin Youngson: the power relationship has to be soar 180 Dr. Robin Youngson: degrees because you have to be led by the Dr. Robin Youngson: client's desires and feelings and wishes Dr. Robin Youngson: and you're in service to the client's story Dr. Robin Youngson: as opposed and facilitating a process of Dr. Robin Youngson: healing within the client.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So that was kind of a radical relearning Dr. Robin Youngson: for me. Dr. Robin Youngson: It's taken me perhaps 20 years to make that Dr. Robin Youngson: shift. I love what you just shared. You're a servant to the client's story. Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, that is really beautiful and I want to. I think I'll be using that in future trainings.
We've learned so much from the modality, the neuroscience-based approach, that both Dr Youngson, robin and myself use in our practice. As you know. It's a beautiful healing approach that puts the power of active emotional well-being in your hands, something you can use without even our help. You know you can do this every day to self-regulate and self-soothe, for self-care. Obviously, for deeper rooted upsets and traumas, always good to work with a certified practitioner so you have support.
Never good to do trauma work on your own. But this is a beautiful approach and I'm going to put some information in the notes about Havening and also how to get in touch with Robin and also to grab the book the Science of Miracles, and I'm also going to put a link in there for Time to Care, because they're two very different books, but I think they're both really beautiful books to have in your library.
As we're building the HIListically Speaking Podcast Library, people will never run out of reading by listening to this podcast, that's for sure, because I always have the best on here. And Dr Ron and Dr Steve Ruden, who are brothers here, and Dr Ron and Dr Steve Ruden, who are brothers, co-developed the Havening technique and it is by far the go-to for me and, I know, for you.
For you, the one thing I would love to talk about a little bit is you know you've worked with the World Health Organization, you've worked with the government in New Zealand, where you're located, and how has that been for you as far as the reception and going forward being in this area of health, now care, now.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean that's a major theme in the book Dr. Robin Youngson: because I mean I first started trying to Dr. Robin Youngson: change healthcare as a junior doctor, as an Dr. Robin Youngson: intern.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I wrote my first book, which was a handbook Dr. Robin Youngson: for surgical patients, explaining to them Dr. Robin Youngson: what happens when you go in a hospital and Dr. Robin Youngson: who are all the staff and what are these Dr. Robin Youngson: tests, and will I die if that little bubble Dr. Robin Youngson: in the IV line gets into my vein?
Dr. Robin Youngson: And there's so many questions like that Dr. Robin Youngson: because I discovered as a junior doctor Dr. Robin Youngson: working a hundred hours a week in the UK, Dr. Robin Youngson: that the patients were so afraid and so Dr. Robin Youngson: uneducated and didn't know no one really Dr. Robin Youngson: talked to them as human beings and I felt Dr. Robin Youngson: so motivated to try to give them some Dr. Robin Youngson: knowledge and some power.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But I was far ahead of my time in those Dr. Robin Youngson: days. Dr. Robin Youngson: This is about 1990. Dr. Robin Youngson: Bookshops did not have a shelf for kind of Dr. Robin Youngson: self-help medical books. Dr. Robin Youngson: They didn't exist as a genre. Dr. Robin Youngson: So my book kind of got filed with the Dr. Robin Youngson: nursing textbooks and so I knew where to Dr. Robin Youngson: put it and I've just been passionate my Dr. Robin Youngson: whole life.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I was an engineer first and worked.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I did an engineering degree and then worked Dr. Robin Youngson: for three years and that gives us a Dr. Robin Youngson: language to understand structures and Dr. Robin Youngson: systems and prosims and mechanisms and Dr. Robin Youngson: dynamics and when I came into the hospital Dr. Robin Youngson: system I found a completely disordered Dr. Robin Youngson: system that was incredibly inefficient and Dr. Robin Youngson: that hurt a lot of people and I saw so many
Dr. Robin Youngson: opportunities to re-engineer patient care Dr. Robin Youngson: pathways and to provide better quality, Dr. Robin Youngson: safer care that was just better for Dr. Robin Youngson: everyone better for the workers in the Dr. Robin Youngson: healthcare system as well as the patients Dr. Robin Youngson: and which would save money. Dr. Robin Youngson: And that's been my passion my whole life. Dr. Robin Youngson: I've been a pioneer in patient safety.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I've been medical director of a hospital Dr. Robin Youngson: and worked with a very inspirational Dr. Robin Youngson: leadership and we actually completely Dr. Robin Youngson: transformed the culture of a hospital.
Dr. Robin Youngson: We had the opportunity to design and build Dr. Robin Youngson: and commission and open an entirely new Dr. Robin Youngson: 200-bed hospital in a disadvantaged Dr. Robin Youngson: community where there had been no hospital Dr. Robin Youngson: before and there was kind of like tsunami Dr. Robin Youngson: of demand arrived in the emergency Dr. Robin Youngson: department the first day.
Dr. Robin Youngson: We opened the doors and we did so much work Dr. Robin Youngson: on compassion and caring and eliminating Dr. Robin Youngson: bullying, which is very widespread in Dr. Robin Youngson: healthcare, and creating a friendly and Dr. Robin Youngson: compassionate environment.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And we're pioneers in patient safety like Dr. Robin Youngson: after a terrible adverse event when a Dr. Robin Youngson: patient was horribly injured and it was Dr. Robin Youngson: number one story in the newspaper Dr. Robin Youngson: nationally, we employed apology and open Dr. Robin Youngson: disclosure and a radically different way of Dr. Robin Youngson: addressing bad events and building trust Dr. Robin Youngson: and rapport radically different way of
Dr. Robin Youngson: addressing, you know, bad events and Dr. Robin Youngson: building trust and rapport. Dr. Robin Youngson: And so I pursued that work relentlessly for Dr. Robin Youngson: decade after decade after decade.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And then you know, I was just trying so Dr. Robin Youngson: hard to bring more humanity and compassion Dr. Robin Youngson: to the healthcare and finding it resisted Dr. Robin Youngson: and I couldn't get it on the agenda of the Dr. Robin Youngson: National Committee, I couldn't get it on Dr. Robin Youngson: the agenda of the WHO.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So eventually, after the experiences of our Dr. Robin Youngson: daughter, we thought, well, maybe there's Dr. Robin Youngson: another approach.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So I quit all my committees and all my Dr. Robin Youngson: roles and my job and so did Meredith, and Dr. Robin Youngson: we founded an international movement for Dr. Robin Youngson: compassionate healthcare and we wrote the Dr. Robin Youngson: book Time to Care how to Love your Patients Dr. Robin Youngson: and your Job, and traveled around the world Dr. Robin Youngson: and that got translated into Dutch and Dr. Robin Youngson: German and Hungarian and sparked movements
Dr. Robin Youngson: in those countries and we helped maybe tens Dr. Robin Youngson: of thousands of individual health Dr. Robin Youngson: professionals reconnect to the heart of the Dr. Robin Youngson: practice and find more joy and satisfaction Dr. Robin Youngson: and care for patients in a better way. Dr. Robin Youngson: But the system itself just stubbornly Dr. Robin Youngson: refused to change.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, we had compelling evidence that Dr. Robin Youngson: compassionate care gets much better Dr. Robin Youngson: outcomes clinical outcomes for patients, Dr. Robin Youngson: that it gives joy and satisfaction to the Dr. Robin Youngson: work of you know doctors and nurses and Dr. Robin Youngson: therapists and midwives that it Dr. Robin Youngson: dramatically reduces patient demand.
Dr. Robin Youngson: There's even research in the USA looking at Dr. Robin Youngson: how patient-centered is the care in primary Dr. Robin Youngson: care.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Looking at how patient-centered is the care Dr. Robin Youngson: in primary care and if you're above the Dr. Robin Youngson: 50th centile, so the 50% of people who get Dr. Robin Youngson: more patient-centered care, the total cost Dr. Robin Youngson: of health care is 30% less than the Dr. Robin Youngson: patients who don't get patient-centered Dr. Robin Youngson: care in primary care. Dr. Robin Youngson: That's research from the USA.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean really stunning research showing Dr. Robin Youngson: that we could save a vast amount of money. Dr. Robin Youngson: So it's a win-win-win for the patients, for Dr. Robin Youngson: the health professionals, for the funders, Dr. Robin Youngson: the providers, the insurance companies. Dr. Robin Youngson: And it should spread like wildfire and just Dr. Robin Youngson: the system would not change.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And I began to dwell down into, you know, I Dr. Robin Youngson: always ask the question why let's not blame Dr. Robin Youngson: people, let's not just say they're greedy Dr. Robin Youngson: or corrupted or whatever. Dr. Robin Youngson: Let's really dig down and try to understand.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And greedy or corrupted or whatever, let's Dr. Robin Youngson: really dig down and try to understand and Dr. Robin Youngson: eventually, through coming to this healing Dr. Robin Youngson: work, that Havening work and understanding Dr. Robin Youngson: the extraordinary capacity of a conscious Dr. Robin Youngson: human being to heal, realize that the Dr. Robin Youngson: fundamental problem is the nature of our Dr. Robin Youngson: science, this scientific materialism, the
Dr. Robin Youngson: science that reduces a human body to a Dr. Robin Youngson: machine. Dr. Robin Youngson: The science that assumes that mental Dr. Robin Youngson: illness is the result of a chemical Dr. Robin Youngson: imbalance therefore must be treated with a Dr. Robin Youngson: drug.
Dr. Robin Youngson: This is the fundamental difficulty in our Dr. Robin Youngson: society and it applies right across every Dr. Robin Youngson: different field, whether it's health or Dr. Robin Youngson: education, or housing or food production. Dr. Robin Youngson: It's a set of societal myths and beliefs Dr. Robin Youngson: about the nature of the world as an Dr. Robin Youngson: unconscious machine.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And yet if we realize that human beings and Dr. Robin Youngson: nature is conscious and alive, the Dr. Robin Youngson: possibilities for change are just endless.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And I just kind of gradually, bit by bit, Dr. Robin Youngson: through a variety of extraordinary Dr. Robin Youngson: encounters with healers and others, Dr. Robin Youngson: discovered that the scientific world as had Dr. Robin Youngson: been described to me and that I was Dr. Robin Youngson: immersed in was in no way a description of Dr. Robin Youngson: the real world, and there's far more Dr. Robin Youngson: sitting beyond that.
Dr. Robin Youngson: That's what eventually led me out of Dr. Robin Youngson: medical practice and led me to understand Dr. Robin Youngson: that really good people trying their best Dr. Robin Youngson: to make healthcare better are just stuck, Dr. Robin Youngson: because they're stuck in these mental Dr. Robin Youngson: models of how we should try to fix things, Dr. Robin Youngson: as if things are a machine, as if a Dr. Robin Youngson: hospital is a complex machine.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So you need a command and control Dr. Robin Youngson: management structure to address their Dr. Robin Youngson: feelings and their beliefs and their Dr. Robin Youngson: experiences. Dr. Robin Youngson: We utterly transform clinical care. And everything you're saying reminds me of just needing to be heard and understood.
And you know, I had a. I had an example of a story that happened with my mom, actually, when she was seeking help from a new doctor and she was really needing care and she wasn't getting care. And this was, I don't know, maybe five years ago or so, and we finally got an appointment in with the doctor who she had never met before, and when the doctor actually walked in the room, she was holding a clipboard.
She was frantic and she's like she was very upset because she's like this is just adding another patient to my plate and she kind of directed her upset towards us. But my mom and I looked at each other because we both come from that compassionate place and we were like we kind of winked at each other because we could tell, even though my mom was in pain, this woman was just overworked.
And you talk about that in the book, the physiological effects and the extreme overwhelm and the fatigue, and actually I talk about that a lot, with the secondary traumatic stress and vicarious trauma and compassion fatigue, especially coming from the field of journalism. You know, we call it the forgotten first responders.
The way that we approached her was just like I understand this, you must be so overworked with so many people and like just saying that to that doctor diffused her and suddenly she sat down with us. Diffused her and suddenly she sat down with us and what was supposed to be 15 minutes right, Because they usually only give you about 15, turned into 45. Because I think she just needed to know that she was appreciated and heard and needed a break. We need more of that.
We definitely need more of that. Dr. Robin Youngson: And I think, as trauma therapists, when we Dr. Robin Youngson: look at a doctor behaving like that, we're Dr. Robin Youngson: seeing a very traumatized individual and Dr. Robin Youngson: you talk about vicarious traumatization and Dr. Robin Youngson: that's true.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But we need to take a step back and realize Dr. Robin Youngson: that the process of medical training itself Dr. Robin Youngson: is profoundly traumatizing, brutalizing, Dr. Robin Youngson: dehumanizing. Dr. Robin Youngson: I just I mean as what you would call a Dr. Robin Youngson: resident, as an anesthesiology resident, in Dr. Robin Youngson: a large city hospital.
Dr. Robin Youngson: You know, on a 15-hour shift one Saturday I Dr. Robin Youngson: had three patients young patients in a row Dr. Robin Youngson: that all died despite my best efforts. Dr. Robin Youngson: There was no suggestion that I should stop Dr. Robin Youngson: work or take time off or go for counseling Dr. Robin Youngson: or take stress leave or whatever. Dr. Robin Youngson: I was just expected to continue.
Dr. Robin Youngson: You know, reported all the deaths to the Dr. Robin Youngson: coroner and wrote the records and, you know, Dr. Robin Youngson: felt really traumatized and shocked and Dr. Robin Youngson: grief stricken and I've and East I was five Dr. Robin Youngson: more patients that day, all emergency cases, Dr. Robin Youngson: and I remember I had a cup of tea and Dr. Robin Youngson: trying to calm myself and I went to the Dr. Robin Youngson: patient and I was doing informed consent
Dr. Robin Youngson: and I remember the thought in my head I Dr. Robin Youngson: wonder if it should be part of informed Dr. Robin Youngson: consent. Dr. Robin Youngson: Should I tell this patient maybe you don't Dr. Robin Youngson: want me as your anesthesiologist, because Dr. Robin Youngson: my last three patients all died and I Dr. Robin Youngson: thought, no, I'd better keep quiet about Dr. Robin Youngson: that.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And then the Sunday I did another 15-hour Dr. Robin Youngson: shift and then turned up for work at eight Dr. Robin Youngson: o'clock on Monday and there was no debrief, Dr. Robin Youngson: no counseling, no support. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, you know, this is how we cause PTSD. Dr. Robin Youngson: Most doctors I know have PTSD.
Dr. Robin Youngson: They have burnout, and the symptoms of that Dr. Robin Youngson: are emotional exhaustion and Dr. Robin Youngson: depersonalization and cynicism and a lack Dr. Robin Youngson: of personal agency, like they feel their Dr. Robin Youngson: work doesn't do any good anymore and the Dr. Robin Youngson: patients, you know, are just demanding good Dr. Robin Youngson: anymore and the patients, you know, are Dr. Robin Youngson: just demanding too much.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And it's, you know what. Dr. Robin Youngson: That's what you're describing is the doctor Dr. Robin Youngson: that first presented and what you did Dr. Robin Youngson: beautifully was empathize with her and, you Dr. Robin Youngson: know, open up her heart a little bit, which Dr. Robin Youngson: is a lovely story. I think about that a lot because you know we get so frustrated in the healthcare system.
Just getting on the phone and trying to get an appointment sometimes is a struggle and just knowing that and I have a lot of friends, obviously, who are doctors as well that still work in the system and it is just daunting and wearing. And it's not just about the patient, you know, it's also about the person who's providing the care and I want that person to feel like they're cared for. But it also comes back to what are you doing to care for yourself?
So that let's circle back for a second, because I'm curious what you think if and I don't mean this to be a pitch, but quite frankly I can see it working well, but can you see an entire medical system that uses behaving techniques in their approach, like how different doctors and practitioners would be? Dr. Robin Youngson: It would just be utterly transformative.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I was doing research into mothers with Dr. Robin Youngson: severe PTSD as a result of childbirth Dr. Robin Youngson: trauma, which about a quarter or a third of Dr. Robin Youngson: all women in the Western world experience, Dr. Robin Youngson: sadly, in our medicalized childbirth system.
Dr. Robin Youngson: She had severe PTSD 20 years after the Dr. Robin Youngson: birth of her son, who had also been Dr. Robin Youngson: rendered disabled, and she still looked Dr. Robin Youngson: after him and you know her score for PTSD Dr. Robin Youngson: symptoms was kind of off the chart and in Dr. Robin Youngson: one session at Havening her score came down Dr. Robin Youngson: really nearly to zero. Dr. Robin Youngson: It was just typical the responses I saw.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And so she was cured of her PTSD in that Dr. Robin Youngson: one session. Dr. Robin Youngson: She went on to have two more Havening Dr. Robin Youngson: sessions, not with me but with actually one Dr. Robin Youngson: of my students I was supervising for two Dr. Robin Youngson: other major life events. Dr. Robin Youngson: Now this person was in her 50s, she was Dr. Robin Youngson: overweight, she had type 2 diabetes.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Her diabetes was completely out of control. Dr. Robin Youngson: Her blood glucose was nearly double what it Dr. Robin Youngson: should be. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean really completely out of the safe Dr. Robin Youngson: range. Dr. Robin Youngson: She was on a lot of medication. Dr. Robin Youngson: She was on a restricted diet.
Dr. Robin Youngson: She was looked after carefully by a Dr. Robin Youngson: diabetic clinic doctors, specialists in the Dr. Robin Youngson: field, but they couldn't get her blood Dr. Robin Youngson: glucose under control.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But after the three happening sessions her Dr. Robin Youngson: blood glucose fell by 40% and the long-term Dr. Robin Youngson: measure of her blood glucose is a thing Dr. Robin Youngson: called HbA1c which measures how blood kind Dr. Robin Youngson: of affects the hemoglobin, how glucose Dr. Robin Youngson: affects the hemoglobin in our blood over a Dr. Robin Youngson: long period of time. Dr. Robin Youngson: And that fell from 94 to 60.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And she had no change in medication, no Dr. Robin Youngson: change in diet. Dr. Robin Youngson: And the explanation is very simple that Dr. Robin Youngson: simply as a result of healing the three Dr. Robin Youngson: major traumas alive, her cortisol levels Dr. Robin Youngson: fell.
Dr. Robin Youngson: So cortisol is a stress hormone and the Dr. Robin Youngson: first an acute stress hormone and the first Dr. Robin Youngson: job with cortisol is to tell the liver make Dr. Robin Youngson: lots of glucose, so you've got lots of Dr. Robin Youngson: energy for the fight and flight reaction. Dr. Robin Youngson: Right, and she just had chronically Dr. Robin Youngson: extremely high levels of cortisol. Dr. Robin Youngson: That was pushing up the glucose way up.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Now obesity and diabetes is the biggest Dr. Robin Youngson: threat to our health status. Dr. Robin Youngson: In the whole world. Dr. Robin Youngson: We have an epidemic of obesity and diabetes Dr. Robin Youngson: and diabetes causes kidney failure and Dr. Robin Youngson: arterial disease and blindness and Dr. Robin Youngson: amputations and you know heart attacks, and Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean it's just the biggest.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And if we actually just help people heal Dr. Robin Youngson: their trauma, so many diabetics would Dr. Robin Youngson: actually come back in control and Dr. Robin Youngson: dramatically reduce, you know, their Dr. Robin Youngson: complications. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean that's just one illustration. Dr. Robin Youngson: Or patients with severe chronic pain. Dr. Robin Youngson: I had a client with severe fibromyalgia for Dr. Robin Youngson: 40 years.
Dr. Robin Youngson: This is an extremely painful condition of Dr. Robin Youngson: muscle inflammation and pain. Dr. Robin Youngson: It was very disabling Even till I'm bad at Dr. Robin Youngson: night.
Dr. Robin Youngson: It was acutely painful for her and she's Dr. Robin Youngson: been on lots of medical treatments like Dr. Robin Youngson: steroids, and we did four sessions of Dr. Robin Youngson: Havening over a week and at the end of the Dr. Robin Youngson: last session she danced on the mat behind Dr. Robin Youngson: me a jig of delight because all of her Dr. Robin Youngson: muscle pains are gone and her fibromyalgia Dr. Robin Youngson: was cured.
Dr. Robin Youngson: These are conditions for which we have no Dr. Robin Youngson: effect on medical treatments and Dr Gabor Dr. Robin Youngson: Mate, who's a world authority on trauma, in Dr. Robin Youngson: his new book the Myth of Normal, says that Dr. Robin Youngson: if you have early life trauma, it changes Dr. Robin Youngson: all your gene expression, it creates Dr. Robin Youngson: inescapable physiological stress, it turns Dr. Robin Youngson: on all your inflammatory mediators, all the
Dr. Robin Youngson: chemicals that cause inflammation, it Dr. Robin Youngson: rewires the brain, it changes the whole Dr. Robin Youngson: hormonal environment and that means that Dr. Robin Youngson: you're four times more likely to develop Dr. Robin Youngson: endometriosis or three times more likely to Dr. Robin Youngson: get autoimmune disease or cancer or heart Dr. Robin Youngson: disease, whatever.
Dr. Robin Youngson: These are much more important things than Dr. Robin Youngson: smoking, cigarettes or high cholesterol or Dr. Robin Youngson: all the things we try to attend to. Dr. Robin Youngson: So if we had a healthcare system where we Dr. Robin Youngson: actually treated people, patients as Dr. Robin Youngson: conscious human beings and work with their Dr. Robin Youngson: stories and their beliefs and their trauma Dr. Robin Youngson: and their feelings.
Dr. Robin Youngson: We would utterly transform the whole Dr. Robin Youngson: practice of medicine, but it might take a Dr. Robin Youngson: while. But we have a while. Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah. Right, and you mentioned earlier that you have another birthday coming up and you've been doing this, for you've been in the medical field for 30 years.
You started as an engineer and you moved into medicine, and I want to ask you what would be next for you, like, where do you want to go now, now that you have this book out and you've been doing Havening? Dr. Robin Youngson: I kind of like to start to retire and take Dr. Robin Youngson: it a bit easier, but I'm mindful of the Dr. Robin Youngson: pile of great stories.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, when I sent my original manuscript Dr. Robin Youngson: to five editors to try and find it with a Dr. Robin Youngson: sample chapter, three of them said you Dr. Robin Youngson: should be writing medical thrillers. Dr. Robin Youngson: So maybe that's the next thing, just as a Dr. Robin Youngson: hobby career, you know in retirement, is Dr. Robin Youngson: writing medical thrillers. Whatever brings you joy brings you joy.
I mean you're and and doing this for less than five years, just in 2020, about five years now, even if it's just been the last five years and it's just, it's been the most gratifying work I've ever done as a doctor. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, I really just see miracles in front Dr. Robin Youngson: of me every day. Dr. Robin Youngson: It just blows people's minds, it's.
It's so different from their experience of spending three years telling their terrible stories to a counselor or you know just um and the astonishment that you see on clients faces look, there are so many wonderful psychotherapists out there, many of which are Havening trainers and practitioners my mentors but sometimes telling the story over and over can be a lot that could be traumatizing and triggering as well.
So having different tools to support yourself and, like you said, there is humor in the healing, you know when we can look back on something later and be able to laugh a little bit. That's part of just the joy that is our human right, you know, the ability to just be joyful and present and happy.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But even in the process you know to have Dr. Robin Youngson: someone in floods of tears and deep Dr. Robin Youngson: distress with just briefly touching on the Dr. Robin Youngson: memory of a just dreadfully traumatizing Dr. Robin Youngson: event and within two minutes to see them Dr. Robin Youngson: smiling and laughing and the energy Dr. Robin Youngson: shifting, because this is a process that's Dr. Robin Youngson: catalyzing a chemical reaction in the brain
Dr. Robin Youngson: that the brain is designed to do that Dr. Robin Youngson: occurs in just a few minutes. Dr. Robin Youngson: We evolved our safety systems to try and Dr. Robin Youngson: keep us safe from many hazards in the world Dr. Robin Youngson: of the amygdala. Dr. Robin Youngson: It's like our emotional safety system and Dr. Robin Youngson: it's evolved to encode or store a trauma in Dr. Robin Youngson: just a few minutes to affect us for the Dr. Robin Youngson: rest of our life.
Dr. Robin Youngson: But evolution is smart, so at the same time Dr. Robin Youngson: it evolved a balancing chemical reaction Dr. Robin Youngson: that does the exact opposite.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And that's the genius of Dr Ruden is to Dr. Robin Youngson: uncover this extraordinary mechanism within Dr. Robin Youngson: the brain and figure out ways to catalyze Dr. Robin Youngson: it, to activate it and to connect that to Dr. Robin Youngson: human touch and healing and connection, and Dr. Robin Youngson: to write a very, very detailed scientific Dr. Robin Youngson: model for exactly how this is working.
Dr. Robin Youngson: And as an anesthesiologist, I'm a very Dr. Robin Youngson: skilled observer of human physiology and I Dr. Robin Youngson: see major physiological changes occurring Dr. Robin Youngson: within minutes as all the stress reactions Dr. Robin Youngson: disappear and everything that the Dr. Robin Youngson: scientific theory predicts I see come out Dr. Robin Youngson: true and it gives us such precise Dr. Robin Youngson: diagnostics tools.
Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean it's very precise work. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean there's an art to it and there's a Dr. Robin Youngson: science to it. Dr. Robin Youngson: But I'm a standard that such a powerful and Dr. Robin Youngson: simple theory plays out with such veracity Dr. Robin Youngson: in so many clients. Dr. Robin Youngson: I've never seen a client that's behaved in Dr. Robin Youngson: a way that said no, no, no, this is not Dr. Robin Youngson: right.
Dr. Robin Youngson: There's something wrong with the theory. Dr. Robin Youngson: It's a better predictor of what happens Dr. Robin Youngson: than a lot of medical, scientific theories. Yeah, love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. I want to mention again. The book is the Science of Miracles. Hold it up, it's a little fuzzy there. There we go, science of Miracles.
We're going to put everything in the notes of the podcast so that you can grab Robin's book, or even Time to Heal, which was his first book, even some links on how to get in touch with him and find him, because it's easy to find you which I love. You put out some really beautiful content, but also if you're interested in learning more about Havening, we'll have some information about that.
Or if you're in the medical field, or if you are a practitioner, a doctor, a nurse, first responder, my goodness, you don't even need to be in the field to put Havening into your life, as both of us are trainers. We have regular training so that you can learn how to learn about the fundamentals, learn about the science, the history of Havening, and even go on and get certification and mentorship, so that's a possibility as well.
All of that will be there, but what I want to do with you first well, not first, but the next step I'd love to hold space for you, robin is I would love to play a little game with you. I do this on my podcast. Every episode, my guests get to play a little word association, and what I have been doing is writing down some words, and what I'd love for you to do is just come back with the first word that comes to mind.
Dr. Robin Youngson: All right, so it's like fun Makes me Dr. Robin Youngson: slightly nervous. I get that a lot. Okay, here we go. Compassionate Healing. Dr. Robin Youngson: Stress, healing Safety. Dr. Robin Youngson: I just kind of feel like the idea of kind Dr. Robin Youngson: of wrapping this nest of safety around Dr. Robin Youngson: people. Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, nest Nesting. Nesting. That's a good word, I like that. Dr. Robin Youngson: Connection, humanity or humanness.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Bullying. Trauma, that was my next word. Dr. Robin Youngson: Trauma. Dr. Robin Youngson: There's no word coming up. Dr. Robin Youngson: I mean, it's such a massive, no one word. Dr. Robin Youngson: Curiosity there you go. Okay, I like that You've reframed that. Reframe that Humor. Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah and laughter. Havening. Blessing, oh I like that and two more words Care. Dr. Robin Youngson: Touch. This is good, Robin. And final word, miracles.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Miracles. Dr. Robin Youngson: Well, einstein said we can either live our Dr. Robin Youngson: lives as if there are no miracles, or we Dr. Robin Youngson: can live our lives as if everything is a Dr. Robin Youngson: miracle. Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, conscious living beings are Dr. Robin Youngson: miraculous, whether it's human beings or Dr. Robin Youngson: nature itself.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Now, if we want to solve the climate crisis, Dr. Robin Youngson: we just have to allow nature to heal itself, Dr. Robin Youngson: can do so rapidly. Dr. Robin Youngson: We have to stop trying to fix it. Dr. Robin Youngson: We have to stop trying to fix human beings, Dr. Robin Youngson: because they heal themselves so much better. And they're not broken. Dr. Robin Youngson: No, well, perfectly broken.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Perfectly and perfectly broken that was the Dr. Robin Youngson: title of my TEDx talk. Dr. Robin Youngson: Is it Perfectly broken and ready to heal? Love that. Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah. Love that we're going to share that as well. That's great. This was such a joy. I am so, so happy that we were able to cross continents and waters and share this time together. You're a delight, you're a gift. Dr. Robin Youngson: Thank you. I'm just so elated to have you here.
We're going to share everything in the podcast notes, but please, I want to offer you a moment and invite you to share with those who are tuning in to HIListically Speaking. What would you like for them to walk away with from this episode? Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, I would just love people to Dr. Robin Youngson: understand that they have just Dr. Robin Youngson: extraordinary healing power within Dr. Robin Youngson: themselves. Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, just seek out whatever modality.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Seek out a practitioner who's going to see Dr. Robin Youngson: you and connect with you and believe in you Dr. Robin Youngson: and help you facilitate your own healing, Dr. Robin Youngson: because that will just unfold miraculous Dr. Robin Youngson: changes for you yeah, just being a human Dr. Robin Youngson: being over a human doing.
Dr. Robin Youngson: Yeah, being the most authentic version of Dr. Robin Youngson: ourselves someone said to me Dr. Robin Youngson: tongue-in-cheek well, robin, you spent your Dr. Robin Youngson: whole life putting people to sleep and now Dr. Robin Youngson: you're waking them up. That is brilliant. That needs to be on your business card. That's a very clever way of putting it, and how did that resonate with you when you heard it?
Dr. Robin Youngson: I laughed yeah, that's great Robin, thank Dr. Robin Youngson: you so much. Dr. Robin Youngson: It was a pleasure having you. Dr. Robin Youngson: It's a pleasure, thank you. All right, my friend, if you want to learn more about Dr Robin Youngstinner, even pick up a copy of his latest book, the Science of Miracles or perhaps you want to learn more about Havening techniques, whether it's putting it into your own personal life or being part of your profession, your practice.
All of the information you need is in the notes of this podcast episode, including all of the books that we've had on HIListically Speaking in the HIListically Speaking Podcast Library. And if this conversation touched, moved and inspired you in any way, if you know one person where this conversation could make a difference, consider paying it forward. Pass it along. You never know who it could touch.
HIListically Speaking is edited by 2Market Media, with music by my dear friend, Lipbone Redding and, of course, supported by you. So thank you for taking time to spend the time with me here and tune in.
Week after week, it doesn't go unnoticed, and I want to leave you with one thing I want you to remember that everything you need you have within yourself to be able to heal, to find the support you need, the compassionate care that is out there in this world, to hug it out with yourself and to be kind to your mind. I'm here to support you. I love you, I believe in you and I'm sending hugs your way, Be well.