sometimes the biggest gifts in our life, with hindsight, are the times that gave us the greatest pain, and that is a conscious choice. Though that is a conscious choice, that is that am I going to step up or step down with this? But if you step up, that's how you can alchemize that into something that really is a huge opportunity moving forward.
It's messy, it's emotional, it can even be traumatic and toxic. I know, let's face it. Breakups and divorce can turn that fairy tale that you have that relationship into a traumatic reality. That you have that relationship into a traumatic reality and suddenly you're questioning if happily ever after is even a real thing, because that's not what you signed up for, is it? But here's the deal. It doesn't have to be all doom and gloom.
There's growth in the grief and even a little humor in the heartbreak. You just have to know where to look. And this is coming from someone who's been down that road, been down that highway and even a little humor in the heartbreak. You just have to know where to look. And this is coming from someone who's been down that road, been down that highway more than once. I have to preface with that and I can tell you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
I promise you and people who can be that guide by your side and look, I'm one of them. I talk about the hug it out method all the time on how you can find the healing and the understanding and the gratitude and the humor in all of it. Right, that's part of your healing journey. But I'm not alone in this journey. I'm not alone on somebody who can be that guy by your side, and that is why Sarah Davison is here.
She is the divorce coach, twice best-selling author, an expert on breakup and divorce, and joins us on HIListically Speaking to help you heal and find yourself again. Because Sarah, isn't that? What it's really all about is finding self again.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here. It's all about turning that pain into your superpower and actually learning that actually a breakup or a divorce can be a really valuable life lesson that actually can turn into something really positive. You can come out stronger, happier, more confident. So lots of positives. So, as you said, I totally agree, it's not all doom and gloom. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.
And a lot of times we come into this work because we realize that we've been through something like you say, that pain to purpose, like having the story ourselves, is sometimes what moves us into the work we do, and you're one of those. I mean, you've been through divorce yourself and sometimes that can be even embarrassing when we think, oh, this is what I do for a living, and now I'm going it through myself. How was that journey for you personally?
Oh, yeah, great question. I mean, I was what I thought. Happily married, I worked with my husband. We had a global business, we had nearly 200 staff, we had an office in London, an office in Sydney. We'd been married about three years. My son, our son, was one at the time when I realized, literally overnight, that my husband not only no longer wanted to be married to me, but he'd actually found somebody else and was madly in love with them. And it doesn't stop there.
Because she was 12 years younger, which never helps Hilary, by the way, never helps. Stunningly beautiful Again, doesn't help. But also she was pregnant and that was literally like it was a freight train that hit my life and turned everything upside down.
Overnight I lost not only my husband, but who I thought was my best friend, my soulmate, my business partner and the father to my son, and I became a single parent who, instead of having my future mapped out with this business that I loved running, suddenly everything was up in the air and I did a lot of that ugly crying on the bathroom floor.
I did a lot of phoning my mom at 2am and trying to figure things out because I couldn't sleep, and it was a couple of months of the pain, the heartache, the humiliation that you touched on in front of all the staff.
Everyone seemed to know about the affair, rather than me, and I'd actually gone out to Sydney, to Australia, to our office out there, and I don't know if this happened to you, hilary, I don't know your divorce circumstances, but when someone finds out that you now know that your partner cheated on you, suddenly everyone comes out of the woodwork with their story. It's almost like it's their therapy to say, oh, thank God, you knew. I didn't know whether to tell you but.
And then they launch into the story. But that's like another dagger through the heart again and again and again. And being in the Australia office, someone had opened up about something they'd experienced with my ex at one point and I had to leave the office and I went for a walk down Balmoral Beach Now it's beautiful, it's white sand, it's turquoise sea and I sat there crying my eyes out and I thought what is going on in my life?
Like suddenly, from being happy, from being thinking everything was sorted and I was just enjoying the journey, but the pain was all consuming, that physical pain feels like, even though it's an emotional pain, it is all consuming, and that's when I had my pivotal moment, which was okay, I can't take this pain anymore. I have a choice I either let this define me or I step up and I find a way through, because there wasn't any help at that point.
I have a choice I either let this define me or I step up and I find a way through, because there wasn't any help at that point. I tried to find help. There was therapy, but that isn't the same as coaching. Coaching is a lot more directional, a lot more results, focused, step by step. So I decided I'm going to create my own tools.
I'm going to combine my coaching experience been a coach for about 15 years at that point with this divorce and create something to get me and my son through, which is what I did. And in that moment, my motto was born, which is screw you, watch this.
And that was it. I love that Screw you Like. The biggest revenge is what they say. The biggest revenge is being able to be resilient and come over it, right.
Yeah, absolutely.
Amazing. That's a hard place to be, especially being in the field of being a coach, somebody that you have been coaching other people.
And then you're going through the journey yourself and to go back to what you're asking me what my journey was, yes, that whole idea of being betrayed because betrayal is like an extra dagger to the heart and then when people say things like you know, we always had a feeling about that person or come to think of it and you're sitting there you want to be angry on one side, like why didn't you tell me? And then the other side you're thinking how did I not know?
So you start doubting your own ability to make decisions, and good ones.
And I found out that very quickly realized that it had actually been very toxic relationship and again I didn't think that abuse was something that happened to people like me. As victims of abuse, we will minimize it and normalize it to stay in it. So behaviors that were totally unacceptable became sort of everyday occurrences over a period of time and coming out of that was also a whole revelation of actually now I'm really seeing the wood for the trees and this really wasn't good.
So again, more embarrassment, more humiliation, more self-doubt, more what the hell was I doing? Moments. So yeah, it was a journey and I think a lot of people go through that, and what I found was there was no support, nobody that really understood. Friends and family can be really supportive and reassuring and if you've got a legal advisor, great, they can pat you on the back and say we'll get through this.
But if you don't have the help like with the mental wellbeing because that is fundamentally what it comes down to the stress, the pressure, the overwhelm, the fear there's so many negative emotions, especially, as you said, with the betrayal on top. There's so many negative emotions, especially, as you said, with the betrayal on top. There's so many things. So actually dealing with. That was the priority.
And really finding the right kind of support. Like you said, you can have different support in different areas. In fact, in this day and age and I've even seen this I have close friends that are divorce attorneys, one in particular that has even gone on to do additional training in narcissistic abuse, because that's a whole different area that we are seeing. It's like a buzzword really, like everybody's labeling everybody narcissist. But that's a behavior, right, but it also can be.
We can have narcissistic tendencies and that doesn't make you somebody that has narcissistic personality disorder. But having a clear understanding of how you are being abused or gaslit or love bombed, I mean with all these terms out there, how? do you know what you're going through during that time.
Well, it's such. I mean, you're so right, it's such an important topic right now and I have a training school. I set up a training school to train other coaches to help me, because my mission is to get these tools that I created out to as many people as possible, and on my own I realized there's so many people that needed this help because it made such a positive difference.
So I set up a training school and now we've trained over 650 coaches in 27 different countries, so that that's really helping people and getting and getting the help out there. But what we've seen, especially since COVID, is the rise of domestic abuse, so toxic relationships, and that includes narcissistic behavior like the gaslighting, confusing behavior you were talking about, covers, coercive control, emotional abuse, but that never is isolated.
It taps into financial control, it taps into sexual control. It's very isolating as well. So the challenge is I don't really like the narcissist word On my training. We call it the M word. I don't train my coaches to use it because it focuses the victim on their ex and the only way to take your power back, which is because it is a controlling abuse.
They are literally controlling everything you're doing and, on some level, even your thoughts, even if you're not living with them anymore, you're renting them space 24-7 in your brain. So we've got to find ways to emotionally disassociate from them and so labeling them and looking at what they're doing and getting caught up in the what I call. They throw grenades at you and you have to then chase down the rabbit holes to try and answer. Why are they saying that?
That's not true, that's upsetting, that's hurtful. Why aren't they turning up on time? Why aren't they sharing that financial information? It's so confusing. If you go down those routes and chase the grenades they're throwing at you, all that's going to happen is they're going to go off in your face. You're going to end up more confused, more emotionally exhausted. So the trick is to take a step back and not focus on the narcissistic traits.
It's more to focus on you, to take your power back and ask better questions like how can I control this situation? What can I do right now to take my power back? So, again, yeah this is all very hot topic at the moment, but I think we've got to not get sucked into the focusing on them, because that's what they want and that feeds it.
Yes, I love that you mentioned that, because you know, there was a phrase I remember going in that was shared with me when I was going through my second divorce, and that was sometimes you have to play the fool that thinks that he's fooling you, or play the fool that thinks he's fooling you, meaning like just even responding and reacting to what they're doing, it's fueling them, right.
And then it's the same thing that almost and I feel this way about when we talk about the names of perpetrators or the criminals, when we mention their name, we're giving them life. So the whole idea is I think it goes back to your whole screw you thing it's focusing on me, it's about me, it's about building me, my resiliency, my power. So the more fuel you're giving to somebody else, the more power that's being taken away from you. That's brilliant, you're spot on.
And the challenge with that is it's easy for somebody to say don't focus on them, focus on you. So you need to give them the how, which is what I created, which is what I call my gameplay checklist, if you like. So it's basically understanding that, whether we like it or not, we are in a game. Now a lot of people go oh sorry, I don't like the fact that you're saying I'm in a game, I'm not doing anything.
I know it's them, but whether we like it or not, we are in their game and we're going to be moved around like pawns on a chessboard unless we learn the rules of the game. So I spell out the rules of the game so that we can master the rules of the game and then be two steps ahead. Now, if you're two steps ahead, you can do very cleverly. What you've just been saying is like you go, I see what you're doing and now I choose not to chase down those rabbit holes. I'm going to.
I can see tactically, you're doing the lying, I'm checking it off my checklist. The lying, the gaslighting, the confusing, belittling, insulting, yeah, all those things, yeah, okay, so now you're classic because they all play from the same textbook. It might feel confusing, but when you actually break it down, it's actually textbook behavior. Now, your pet psycho you will know better than anyone. You'll know the tendencies.
They tend to do more of the gaslighting or more of the isolating or the threatening or whatever. But you'll know them and you'll see, and then you'll see right. Okay, these are the tactics you're deploying in this game. Now what do I want to do? I know where you're wanting me to go. You want me to be upset or hysterical, or file another legal letter. It costs me more money, or whatever it is.
I'm going to take a step back now because I'm emotionally disassociating from all that drama and I'm able to make a better informed decision, and so that's kind of where we give people the how, which actually enables them to feel more empowered in what is a very disempowering situation for a lot of people.
Oh yeah, I. I remember feeling like that the minute I was not responding and reacting, and it the other person becomes unhinged because it's like you. There's power in the silence, there's power and not sharing, because when you're in it especially if you're in a relationship where there are those tendencies that you don't mention, right, you realize that when you're in it you don't know what the heck is going on with you. You think it's you.
You're the one that's losing your mind, and that's such a part of the psychology of that illness. And that disorder, but also when you take that power back, you are more empowered and you start building that resiliency. I do want to go back to what you just mentioned. You have a school, a training school.
You say you've certified over 600 people to get certified in divorce and breakup training, and we're going to actually drop something in the notes of this podcast about your school so that people can take advantage of an offer if they're looking to up their level of certification.
If you are actually already a coach or a therapist or somebody who is supporting people even divorce lawyers, I'm sure could benefit from this so that you become more educated on how to go forward and support those that you are serving.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you don't actually have to have any coach qualification to do it. A lot of my coaches have come from just going through a really tough breakup, really getting the pain, having that empathy, and then I can do the rest. I've been coaching for gosh 30 years now, so I've got a lot of experience.
So I fast track you through the coaching skills and give you the recipe of the tools and how to put them together to create those fast, positive transformations with clients and then, if you want to add, in the specialist area of domestic abuse and the toxic relationships and the N-word stuff. It's such a rewarding career, I think, a time when it's much needed as well.
Yeah, especially when you realize that your pain has turned into purpose to help other people. I think of that myself, and even if people are taking a course just to self-educate, it doesn't mean they have to go out there and use it as a profession. I think of so many people who are getting trained, even in the work I do in Havening or going through my certification.
They might not use it in the workplace, they might just want to have more tools to learn how to self-regulate and self-soothe for themselves right. So if you think about it that way, just getting certification just makes you more aware and educated on ways to deal with your own life.
Or maybe you have a friend or a family member going through it and they know that they can trust and come to you because you have the skills that Sarah is sharing with you in her curriculum to make you a more well-rounded person and knowledgeable in this area, which could be very, very traumatic and hard to deal with on an everyday. You know, yeah, I know.
I just think it's. There are also life skills. You know how to, because a lot of my training is based on understanding that we control the remote to our brain. So and a lot of people don't know that A lot of people my clients, for example will come and say well, I'm crying all the time, my life's ruined because my ex has cheated on me. I've got a client at the moment. He's run off with her best friend from the school gates. One of the moms and their kids are best mates as well.
It's a really tough situation and she's like my life was over. I'm never going to find love again. Now. I'm not taking away from how painful this situation is. However, what we're working on is helping her to dial down those negative emotions and put in place specific tools and techniques, as well as a lot of practical tips to help her take her power back, and one of them is self-care.
One of them is literally looking after yourself, because she turned to various coping mechanisms that were actually ending up making her feel worse, and this is really common, like drinking more. For example, she likes red wine. She would usually have a glass in the evening with her dinner. Now it's three or four glasses the next day is having a knock-on impact, and she hadn't really been consciously aware because it was her crutch.
But again we can't stop doing something without replacing it with something else, because otherwise you're sat there going well, I want to drink but I can't drink and that just drives you mad. So again it's coming up with other solutions that she can go to that give her that soothing, that help her deal bereavement. It could also you could use those life skills for any scenario challenging behavior in the workplace.
And actually that's interesting too, because now there's been a huge increase and I've seen this in the States, I've seen it all over the world in the amount of businesses that are now looking for breakup, divorce and domestic abuse coaching, support for employees.
Because finally the research is showing and it's finally out there now someone's done it, that Harvard Business Journal did it to show the massive reduction in productivity if you are going through a divorce 40% reduction in ability to focus and perform in the workplace 40 percent. And not just for the year of the divorce, the year before, the year during and the year after as you're trying to put your life back together.
Maybe you're out on the dating scene or maybe you've got different kid arrangements or your house is a bit further away from work. There's so many things to work out. So, yeah, it's definitely something that those skills can be used in lots and lots of different areas.
Wow, that is an astronomical percentage 40%. So your productivity declines by 40%, or we're seeing that when you are going through a life change like a divorce or a major breakup, yeah, okay, so this isn't like and this isn't just affecting your personal life. This actually does have an ability to affect your professional life, which I see that with clients as well. But having someone that's specifically designed and trained in divorce and breakup coaching could support you on a different level.
Obviously, we need coaches in different areas, we need practitioners, we need support for the different kinds of things we're going through in life. So if this is something that resonates with you or you know somebody who is going through this journey, pass this podcast episode along. Let them know that this conversation between myself and with Sarah exists, and it could provide you that something extra that you might not have thought about before.
So definitely pass along this HIListically speaking episode.
Do you think, Hilary, it's kind of strange. Right Like when you were going through your divorce, I was looking for help and there was lots of help. If I wanted to lose weight, there are a thousand groups I could join. If I wanted to stop smoking which I didn't smoke there are a million groups I could choose. But heartbreak, which is something that every single person on the planet goes through at least once Some of us a few more times than that, right, so yeah, so why was there no help?
And this was what I was fascinated by this. So now I've created these online support groups. We have eight hours of group coaching every week. They're less than a dollar an hour to attend. They're free for the first week. It's just super accessible so that anyone can jump on and get help. I just find it crazy that it didn't exist before I didn't have it.
You go to a traditional therapist, a marriage and family therapist, and look, they have their place too. But I feel like I could have used more support, especially as a young wife, when I was my first marriage. And even though that turned out and I have a relationship with that person that is positive, it was still a death, a grief, a loss that I didn't know how to process as a young divorcee Then the second time around with more, more tools, more intuition, more wisdom.
it still hurts and there's different things we go through and we did different kind of community. It really depends on whether you have children, whether you don't like having these kind of support networks. So important right. Because, it's not just cookie cutter, you know, I just find it crazy that there wasn't anything.
I mean, I just think when we're all going through that and we're all struggling, whether it's your first heartbreak or you've been married 40, 50 years, you know there's there's a level of emotional pain there and at the moment, you know, trying to get therapy, help or whatever, if you, if you get it through, you know sometimes there's free help available.
There's months and months of wait lists over here in the UK and it just is, you know, people can't get the help they need, which I just think is crazy. So, yeah, no, it's one of the things that we get feedback every single day Like thank you so much, your groups have saved my life. Even I wouldn't be here because no one understood it. I mean it's been.
The best thing that I've done actually is that the groups online Then we're definitely going to share that in the notes of the podcast as well. So if you want to connect with Sarah and the groups that she offers and that sounds like a very reasonable look, your number one ROI is Y-O-U.
Anyway, I always say that, and if you can put aside a dollar a day or a couple of bucks to get a coffee, your emotional wellbeing matters too, and then you know you're in community and with support, so we'll share that as well. I do want to talk about your books too. You have two books out, Uncoupling and the Split. Can you share a little bit about both and how they're different?
Yeah. So uncoupling is how to survive and thrive from any kind of breakup or divorce, and it's packed full of my tools, my techniques, and it describes a lot of my stories how I found out that my husband was cheating on me which was an interesting revelation and decided the best way for me to get over jet lag at the time was just to go to the gym and have a bit of a run and see if I could shake it off. And I opened my bedside table and inside was a contact lens box. I don't wear contact lenses.
And then I opened it up going oh that's weird. And inside was a big false eyelash and I don't wear false eyelashes either, so am I. You know, when you sleep on the side of the bed, that's down the side, so you're gonna have to squeeze down and like no one's just gonna be walking past, like if it was a cleaner and it just wouldn't have been there. But interestingly, I went into the first stage of the loss cycle, the grief cycle, which is denial.
So I shut it up, put it back in there, went to the gym, and it was weeks later before I actually told anybody said anything about it, cause I knew that once you start talking about it, it makes it so much more real and kind of in my heart parts, I guess I knew.
So that was more of what a coupling was about.
More about my story and more about, you know, my journey through that, which I think resonates a lot with people. Then the split is 30 days from breakup to breakthrough and what it does is it's broken down into a chapter per day for 30 days.
So if you are going through that overwhelming just wanna read a chapter, have a tool or a technique that you can take on board for that day and then take you through to the next day, what we do is it's a 30-day plan, so having your own coach and you tick it off as you go through and it just fast tracks you through that recovery process.
That's great. It's like having a little pocket guide just to help you along like a companion. Yeah, Amazing. Just want to remind folks. We're going to put everything you need in the podcast notes of this episode with Sarah Really good information from your training school to both of the books uncoupling and the split. And just this was something I would love to ask you is the term uncoupling is something is not new. It's been around for a while.
Are we finding that we're using that more than the term breakup than divorce, Like why? Why are we finding more of a pull towards that term?
Well, I think conscious uncoupling sort of hit the headlines when Gwyneth Paltrow used it to describe her uncoupling from her husband and that was an interesting time because they were managing to do it very amicably. And I think conscious uncoupling is when you go separate ways. Obviously there will be some conflict, right, but it's a healthy relationship. You might argue a little bit over who gets the piano or, you know, when you see the kids. That's normal, there's nothing wrong with that.
But you can have a conversation and that's where you're aiming for compromise, even though you might be a bit fed up with the other person or you may resent them a little bit, you know, or it's fizzled, you know, over a period of time. So those kind of relationships you can consciously uncouple, which is great, and I think that if you can, obviously that's the best way to do it with communication, and both of you are aiming for some sort of compromise. So you work out that.
You know you want a fair compromise at the end of the day. But that's not really what I see that much of, to be honest. What I see is what I've coined, aggressive severing, because aggressive severing is very different to consciously uncoupling.
Aggressively severing is when you are divorcing somebody who is hell bent on causing maximum pain and suffering and basically total annihilation, which is what comes with a toxic ex or an abusive ex, and so I tend to that's my specialist area, having been through it so that's where we tend to see a lot of people really needing help, because obviously it's a bit more of a emotional rollercoaster at times and it goes on for a lot longer and you do end up feeling like the only sane person in the
lunatic asylum if you're dragged through the toxic court system that is pretty much global. The family court system is not fit for purpose in my opinion. It's very corrupt and there's a lot of inbuilt conflicts of interest, which definitely never serves victims of abuse. So again, we are specialists at supporting people through that. But I think the term uncoupling sort of got the headlines then and I think that's great because it puts a massive focus on people's ability to focus on.
You can do it amicably. And look, you know Gwyneth did it. She loves my work. She invited me personally to write for Goop. Actually, so write for Goop, which was amazing, so a highlight of over the last few years, um. So I mean it's great that you know that she does shine a light on these things and that there is, you know, is a way to do it amicably. But obviously, if if you want to do it amicably, hilary, and your partner doesn't, your ex doesn't, it's very hard to do it amicably.
That's the challenge, because they will drag you through the court system potentially, or cause many, many more problems than it needs to have. So it's not just about you, but at least you know the support's there if you need it.
Right and it's always best if you can take that approach. And I remember when I was going through my divorce, the divorce attorney who was advising me told me that you want to think of it logistically and not personally.
It's very hard Think of it as a business contract at this point and it's hard to do that because it is personal, it feels personal, but at some point you have to pull yourself out of it and be like if I want this to work, first of all, don't make your children the pawn in the chess game. Now I don't have children so I didn't have to worry about that, but so many people do. And also that whole idea of like.
There's a lot of conflict with parental alienation, one pitting against the other with their children. I see that a lot as a practitioner. There's always one parent that's not doing the right thing by their children, let alone the sanctity of the marriage that might be dissolving, but at one time you two came together for a reason. So what would be your advice to folks that might be going through this process?
Or entertaining it Doesn't mean you have to be going through a divorce, just a breakup or the thought of separating. What would be your advice to folks that you can do this with integrity.
Yeah, you absolutely can, and you can still have integrity even if your partner is playing games and being toxic. You can. If you have kids, the most important thing is to put their best interests first. Like you said, you don't want to use them as a pawn. Um, and again, there's so many things that happen. If you are a victim, survivor, I like to call a course um of abuse. The challenge when you go through the family court system is what you term their parental alienation.
The challenge with that is that parental alien if you are turning your children against your ex as a form of revenge that is an abusive tactic and it is absolutely unacceptable. And we see that a lot, as you were talking about.
But actually what people don't see it happens more often, but it's not as talked about is when you are falsely accused of alienating your child against the abuser by the abuser because that maybe the children are scared to spend time or they're uncomfortable to spend time there. So it's very easy then it's weaponized a lot by law firms to then accuse the victim of alienating the children, which is a form of abuse as well. So it goes both ways and it is really horrific.
And again, I spend, like I'm sure you do a lot of my time dealing with victims of that kind of tactic which is perpetrated through the family courts. So my advice is if you can avoid going into the family courts then I would say that's a good thing. You can't always if your, if your ex is wanting to drag you there.
But just bear in mind it's not just the financial cost, is also the emotional cost of being dragged through that, because the courts are not fun, it's intimidating, it's scary and in a lot of cases you know you could swap the words court for casino, in my opinion, because you just don't know what's going to happen on the day, what kind of judge you're going to get, what the situation is, what your ex is going to say Again, very difficult to you cannot control that.
So being able to work out some sort of mediation is a good way, but you can't do mediation with an abuser. But there are different types of mediation now where you're not in the same room and hybrid mediation enables you to have a legal advisor in with you if you want that as well. So there's different ways now that have evolved. But putting your kids first, doing the right thing, but heads up doing the right thing is never the easy thing. It's really hard.
So, again, if you can get the support from somebody that can help you through that, then I think that is what keeps you sane, and your self-care is going to be absolutely important during those times too.
What did you find to be your best way to self care when you were going through the process?
Physical exercise was important to me because actually, when you change your physiology, you automatically change how you feel. But it doesn't mean you have to go to the gym and, you know, be muscly or you know, go full out. It doesn't mean you have to go to the gym and be muscly or go full out. It doesn't mean that. It just means for you, find what works for you. Swimming was great for me. I used to go swimming a lot. Some of my clients love yoga.
It could be just going out for a walk, but looking up, don't have your AirPods in, just look up, listen to nature, know. Obviously, if you can get out somewhere where there's green or water, it can be even more healing. But just getting out and doing a brisk walk around the block can help. So I think having that is key. Also, having good friends and a support network around you is important.
However, I caveat that with it may not be your bestie, because your bestie may be emotionally involved, because they're angry and they really upset with this ex as well, because they were sucked into that story. And maybe your family was sucked into the story and they're angry or they're hurt by it. So their advice sometimes isn't quite as constructive as you would need it to be.
So when you're choosing your what I call breakup support team, make sure you have people in there that can actually give you constructive advice that aren't as emotionally involved, as well as your friends and family for those nights or evenings where you just want to rant.
But if you're looking at how do I get myself moving forward, then again we have to be a little bit more considered in our choices with that, I think then again, we have to be a little bit more considered in our choices with that.
I think that is such a good point to bring up I'm thinking about that in my own situation that I found that I healed faster. It took me a while, but in the second uncoupling I found that my healing journey and I did so much work and I'm so grateful for it I don't even hold resentment or upset anymore because I'm and it's I'm so grateful for it. Like I don't even don't even hold resentment or upset anymore because I'm like, wow, I learned from this, maybe who I am today.
I have people in my life that are still so angry at that person and you know you feel that that's that kind of responsibility. Like gosh, I'm so sorry I laid all that on you. I'm doing okay, so maybe you can too right, Because you want them to but they're holding on to their upset because they're protecting you, and I found that to be something that was really interesting, you know?
Yeah, they will. And I love what you said about you're okay with it, because actually the key here is do you remember when I said at the beginning, you have that choice where you either step up or you just let it be who you are and it defines you forever.
I think that's the key, because when you go through any of life's challenges not just a breakup, divorce, but in my case, obviously that's my specialist focus, but it can be a valuable life lesson, not just for you but also for your children, to learn that sometimes the wheels come off. You know, sometimes we don't get that fairytale ending that we expected, that we dreamed of, but that's okay because actually, as long as we can talk about our emotions, we can express them.
We're not stuffing them down, we're not ignoring them. We can face up to them and maybe that's with help or maybe you've got a great supportive team around you, but you can work. Work through that. That empowers not only you but also your kids, because nowadays the teenage suicide rate it all around the world is skyrocketing. Because the coping mechanisms kids have these days are very different to when I was at school.
When I was at school, you know, if you were stressed you might go for a sneaky cigarette around the back of the bike shed, and that was pretty much what you would do cigarette around the back of the bike shed, and that was pretty much what you would do. You know, you play truant or you do maybe not go to school or leave early or whatever.
Now it's this awful sort of smorgasbord of drugs and alcohol and um, as well as, uh, self-harming and suicide, and that is quite scary, and so we are not not training our kids with coping mechanisms that actually allow them to process difficult situations. So, if they can see a parent who has gone through something like this and see that they yes, they found it tough, because we only ignore or hide those emotions, but they found it tough.
But look, they had coping mechanisms and you can teach these to your kids, appropriate ones, whether that's five star jumps to change how you feel, putting a smile on your face, having some happy music, maybe it's exercising, maybe it's asking more empowering questions rather than what's wrong with me, why did I? Why did this happen to me? It's okay. Well, what can I do right now to make this better? What can I do right now to change how I feel?
Like those sort of little tips and coping mechanisms. If a kid learns them, then your breakup becomes actually very valuable life experience for your child, because when they're 16, 18, older, these are life skills and coping mechanisms they will take with them. They'll know that just because things don't work out doesn't mean that's it and they've got to think about the worst scenarios. They can say look, I know this is okay. I know I'll get through it.
It's tough, but I saw my mom or my dad do it and therefore I know I can do it, it's possible. So this is where the gift that keeps on giving comes in, because that pain to power, that trauma to triumph, you can generationally pass those gifts on as well.
Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's like be a lesson for the next generation, absolutely. And the one thing I learned you know and I'm also a product of divorce is that you don't want to see what happened to you or to your parents happen to you. And then you live in that fear of is this going to happen to me? Because you're already putting that into that part of your brain that's going to hold on to. This is dangerous, right.
So there's also that feeling of being able to share this as a gift with your children and be a mentor in a way of like this is just part of everyday life. Things don't work out sometimes, but what can we learn from it? Could be very powerful. Absolutely. Love that you're sharing that so much good information here, sarah. I mean that can really build that resiliency. Tell me what your tagline is again. What is it? Screw you what? Screw you watch this.
Yeah, screw you watch this, and it doesn't mean to be said in a negative way, but like success is the best revenge.
You're protecting yourself. So it's like you know when people are having a go and throwing words around and being aggressive, you know. If you're in one of those kind of breakouts it's like, okay, I could break right If I gave you permission to break me. But I choose not to and I'm taking control, like I can do this in a nice way. But screw you, watch this. I'm going to turn this into something so empowering for me, my friends, my children, people around me. Yeah, just watch this.
It's super empowering. I can't tell you, literally still today, it drives me forward.
It's empowering just thinking about that, because I'm thinking about it back on the last 10 years of my life, and where I am today and I know part of that is because of the journey that I went through. That did suck at the time, but now I'm like gosh. I don't think I'd be where I am today, doing what I do, if I didn't have that experience. Yeah Right, it's hard to see it when you're in it.
It's hard to see it when you're in it, but when you're out of it and you're on the other side, you're like screw you, watch this.
Yeah, I think sometimes the biggest gifts in our life, with hindsight, are the times that gave us the greatest pain. That is a conscious choice, though. That is a conscious choice. That is that. Am I going to step up or step down with this? But if you step up, that's how you can alchemize that into something that really is a huge opportunity moving forward, and I know it's hard when you're in it, but actually it's just one step at a time.
At that point it's just I've just got to get through this day and the next day, but having that motto behind you to encourage you when you feel down, having that support team around you. Prioritizing your self care Because I think it's important that we understand that self care is not selfish. I think a lot of people think if I take time out of my day, I'm not working, I'm not focusing on the kids, I'm not doing what I need to do.
That is what you need to do, because if you're not prioritizing you, it's like when you're on the plane and they put your oxygen mask on first and then help your kid, it's like why would I do that? I want to help my kid first, but actually if you're not there to help your kid, then you've got nothing left in the tank to help. So that's why this is so important.
So I think a lot of my clients are like, oh well, but I've got other things and other people it's like, no, put yourself, because if you're not strong to make those big decisions you've got to make about life going forward, where you're going to live, how much money you're going to have looking after the kid arrangements, all those things, if you're not strong for that, then that's going to have an impact forever on your life.
So let's get you in the best position you can now and it's good routine anyway to set up for the rest of your life.
And I think that leads us to one more thing I want to touch on, and basically it's going through my own journey. So I'm kind of asking questions I wish I had answers to then. But I get asked this question still to this day, because my second relationship was a very short term marriage, like yours. It wasn't a long, it wasn't 25 years or anything like that. But people said, do you regret it? And I, honestly, I have to say no, I don't.
I don't regret the day of the wedding because it was beautiful and brought love together and I got to see people that are no longer here, or maybe they were and they you just got to see a collective amount of people coming together for the whole mission of love. And then do you regret meeting the person or dating the person? No, because you are where you are when you are in that place, where you're at you got to meet yourself where you're at. So regret can be very dangerous.
It's really learning the lesson in it and not taking something that was sweet away from something that once existed. Yeah.
I totally agree with that. In fact, I always say my wedding day was amazing. I mean, it was one of the most magical, beautiful days. That's the thing. We have to cherish those moments. We can't go back and rewrite history and say, well, that was a terrible day, because look what happened three, 10, 20 years later. No, we have to keep those magic moments and remember them for special in that time.
They're part of our life's journey and you would never be who you are without that experience behind you, however painful. But the trick here is to turn that into something that you can look back and learn the lessons, because life has a funny way of teaching us the same lesson over and over again until we go, okay, I've got it, I'm banking it, I'm not going to date that kind of person again or I'm not going to do that thing again because it hurts me.
But with these kinds of things, quite often we go back to what's familiar because ironically it feels safe. But actually that familiar isn't safe if it's hurting us time and time again.
So it's about recognizing and what I call hone your radar to spot the signs of maybe a toxic relationship or the N word we talked about earlier, the narcissistic Just hone your radar, because if you spot the signs and you bank your lessons, that means that you will deploy your parachute and exit the building on day one or two without saying, oh, I can change them or they'll be different with me. No, no, no, no. You've learned the lesson, you've banked it. Parachute is deployed and you are out.
That's great. I love that. There's a powerful quote I learned when I got back into the dating scene and being in a happy relationship I'm in now. I know a big part of that is because I don't gravitate to the same kind of person. I've made the list of who I am and how I want to show up in the world. And now, and being the list, that's the kind of person you attract, right? You can't ask for.
Oh, I want them to be wonderful and nurturing and empathetic and compassionate and loving and give me everything I need, but not be that yourself. So it's like make the list be. The list was like the most powerful lesson I ever learned Love that everything you're sharing.
Okay, so we're going to have a little fun, because there's always humor in the heartbreak, and I play a game with my guests called a rapid fire, and basically what I'm going to do is I'm going to throw out a word, a number of words, just one word that you've said at some point during this conversation, and I want you to come back with one word that associates with that. So we're doing word association. Okay, going to have a little fun. You ready? Sounds great.
Okay, here we go, just quick off the top. Toxic Power Control.
Release.
Productivity, performance, compromise, step up, humiliation, embarrassment.
Game, gameplay, checklist Denial, I'm going to say contact lens box. Oh goodness, it stays with us it.
Even if it's humorous, at some point it still stays with us, right, good stuff. Uh, how about uncoupling happiness, betrayal, painful divorce, liberation and two words screw. Betrayal. Painful Divorce, liberation and two words screw you Watch this. I was hoping you'd say that I was like finish this phrase for me. This was so great. I'm so excited that we had a chance to have this conversation and really learn from each other.
Really, if you were to leave some final thoughts with those who are tuning into HIListically Speaking Sarah, what would it?
be. It's not what happens to you in life that defines you. It's what you do about it that makes you the person you are. There's always time, so if you need help, reach out, get the help, and you've got this. I know you've got this. You can do it.
Amazing, great advice, thank you. Thanks so much for having me. If you found this conversation helpful, consider passing it along to just one person. It only takes one person to make a difference in this world. And don't forget, you can also download and subscribe so others can find it too. Even leave a rating or review wherever you're tuning in, because HIListically Speaking is a place to turn those traumas into triumphs, one day at a time.
And you can also get in touch with the divorce coach herself, sarah Davison, by checking the podcast notes of this episode. You will find her books, as well as her courses and even a very special offer to her training school. Just for tuning in to this episode and conversation.
And if you need additional support to learn how to find the humor, the understanding and the gratitude that exists within you to heal, let's set up a call and figure out how you can find ways to hug it out with yourself again and put the power of emotion well-being back in your own hands.
A couple of people that I want to thank for this podcast and making it possible 2Market Media for the editing, of course, my dear friend Lipbone Redding for always bringing the music, and you for trusting me and joining me week after week and always remember this because, coming from someone who has been there herself, that you can take back your life again. I promise you that and always know that I love you, I believe in you and I'm sending hugs your way. Be well.