0:00:07.3 Cheryl: Hi, welcome to Higher Education Coffee and Conversation. I'm Cheryl Broom, CEO of Graduate Communications. Today's guest, Aubrey Kuan Roderick first came to the United States as an international student, and today is the program coordinator for international students at College of San Mateo, which is situated in the heart of the Silicon Valley. CSM, hosts students from 50 separate countries from around the world, and has had a thriving International Program since the 1960s. Aubrey and I speak about how the college recruits international students, especially considering community college is an unknown system in other countries. We chat about why community colleges have international student programs to begin with and the value that international students bring to community college campuses. Aubrey also shares how Covid has impacted Community College international students and what CSM has done to continue to accommodate new international students who wish to study at their community college. It's a really interesting, timely, and fun conversation, one that will help shine a light on yet another way our community colleges serve a unique function in our society.
Yeah, why don't we start off Aubrey, I know you and I have known each other for a long, long time. Tell us a little bit about your background and what brought you to your college and what you do.
0:01:30.0 Aubrey: Thank you, Cheryl. First of all, I’d really like to thank you for this opportunity, first podcast for me. So very excited!So my background, a little bit about me, I was born and raised in Taiwan. I actually came to the States to pursue my graduate studies as an international student. That was back in the 90s, it feels like 100 years ago though. Back then, the landscape of international education was slightly different than now. I would say, not everybody really knew or were even into international education, I would say back in the 90s.
0:02:12.4 Aubrey: But now, I can say that our students, especially international students at College of San Mateo, we do have a very robust international program serving students from 50 plus countries. When we talk about International Education, the definition for that is for students who are on a student visa, or we call it F-1, Visa students studying in the States at higher education, community colleges, four years. So our program, we have a team of professional staff, we serve students from admissions from their application to our college orientation, we assist them with their employment all the way until they graduate. At the College of San Mateo, I'm also the chair for our International Education Committee, we have a team of faculty, staff, and we also have student representatives and administrators who work very closely together to provide that multi-level support system to support our international students. Prior to that, like you mentioned Cheryl, we work together in another community college district, I was there for a good 13 plus years, so had a really established understanding of a community college support system for international students.
0:03:56.1 Cheryl: I myself studied abroad when I was in college. I spent only six months, but I spent six months in Mexico and to this day it's probably one of my most enlightening, amazing experiences that I ever had. I learned... First of all, I learned more Spanish in six months than I did in 16 years of studying it. I just have the most amazing experiences, and so whenever I teach, I always encourage students of two things. I encourage them to get an internship and if they can, make it part of their educational goals, if they can afford it and they can take time away, they should study abroad. But I never knew until I worked at a community college, that students from other nations come to community colleges. It surprised me when I started working that there were international students on a community college campus.
0:04:55.3 Aubrey: That's also the same experience for me as I mentioned when I first came as an international student back in the 90s, I did not know that option was available to me as well. So, yeah, it is a popular option. I will say since the beginning of 2000, community college has become a more popular option for the younger student population. We're talking about students who have just graduated from high school in their home country, or perhaps in their early 20s. We have seen in the state of California, I would say, I don't want to say all of them, but I would say the majority of community colleges in the State of California have international education programs.
0:05:47.9 Cheryl: How do students find out about it? I know some other countries don't have community colleges, so that must be something new for them to learn, how do they learn about community colleges and then the programs as well.
0:06:00.8 Aubrey: I would say that promotion overseas has been quite robust as well. Students learn about community colleges through college fairs and also a lot of education, what we call them, Study Abroad agencies overseas. They promote community college programs for their clients as well and I also want to say the word of mouth. When students realize what a great support system community college provide to students, whether it's ESL, English as a Second Language program and other student support services. That really makes sense when you think about students who are young, at a very young age, they really don't have a lot of resources in a new country. The housing supports another thing, I think community colleges really pay attention to provide support, even though many of our community colleges in the State of California do not have on-campus housing, I know the effort is there to provide that assistance. So, working very closely with students from overseas, having that information provided to them through fairs, through websites, and more so due to Covid, through digital marketing and social media, all the promotions helped. Just like you, before I started working at community colleges, I did not know.
0:07:44.4 Aubrey: So many international students actually learned about community colleges from overseas, but I think the product is good. So, then it travels, the news travels overseas as well.
0:07:57.5 Cheryl: I remember when you, this is pre-covid, you went to China, I believe. Yes. To do some recruiting and it was you, and I believe, did the college president go with you? Or it was a faculty member, I think.
0:08:15.0 Aubrey: It was a faculty member. If we're talking about 20, maybe 2014, something like that.
0:08:22.1 Cheryl: Yes, and when you came back, there were all these gifts for the college president. That may be why I thought he went, and there were these beautiful teacups and tea sets and things that people had given to the college. He was like, “Here are all these gifts, what should we do with them? Can we display them?”
0:09:18.6 Aubrey: Right, I remember that it was an institution in non-Province China, where we went as a delegation with a faculty member, myself, and we also had someone from the states. They kind of matched us up with the institution to talk about the possibility of sending faculty as exchange to do teaching, co-teaching, student exchange, and things like that seems like it was a long time ago though. That was 2014, I think, around that time.
0:09:26.7 Cheryl: Well, it triggered a memory for me because, getting back to community colleges offering these international programs, I just thought what a great way to advocate for the community college system outside of the United States, because we do offer something so unique. Being able to bring students from other countries to experience it, I think would be something that would really motivate a campus to want to have a study abroad program, an international program.
0:09:57.8 Aubrey: For sure, and not to mention that over the years, I have seen the increased amount of emphasis on global awareness as an institutional student learning outcome and the understanding of global issues are becoming more and more important. I can also share this at my current position at College of San Mateo, we have actually, have had international programs as early as the 60s. That was also an eye-opening experience for me. Last year, during our International Education Week, we actually organized our first international alumni reunion and alums who graduated from the 60s, late 60s, and early 70s came together. We offered a panel discussion, and they shared their experiences attending the College of San Mateo back in those days. What they experienced for the first time studying in the United States. That was actually quite interesting as well to hear as early as then, even back in the 60s, community colleges such as CSM had already started offering international education programs.
0:11:26.3 Cheryl: Well, what a great idea! Were there a lot of international alum who had stayed in the United States who’d become citizens?
0:11:33.7 Aubrey: Yes, the panel actually who served on the program, the majority of them are in the States, actually still in the State of California, but we did have one alum who actually dialed in all the way from Columbia. But it's just so amazing to see that they kept their friendship and network over the years. I mean now we're talking about how many years, almost 50 right, 50 years. Wow. Yeah, they still laugh and giggle. You know they talk about the old days. They had old photos to show us. That was quite an experience and quite an event for us to see that their community college experience really has kept their friendship over the years as well.
0:12:28.3 Cheryl: Wow, what a wonderful way to reconnect with alumni and to continue to build that community. That's a great idea. You have students, you said from 50 different countries? Yes. Is that normal to have that much diversity in terms of country representation?
0:12:49.3 Aubrey: You know, I have to say we are probably very lucky in the way that because we are situated in the heart of Silicon Valley. When you sell any product overseas, people want to be able to identify something they are familiar with. So, I would say when you go overseas, when you say Silicon Valley, they do recognize, they can relate to it, they know what that means in terms of innovation, technology, YouTube, Facebook, all of these social media companies. Majority of them are based in Silicon Valley. So, I think credit location, just like in real estate, we always say location, location, location. International Education Programs, I think, do have that as well, so having a strategic location helps. I can't speak for other community colleges, but I think having a diverse international student group, it's not unusual, especially for California, it's such an ideal study abroad destination for the international student population.
What an amazing experience for those students too, because when you're in a group with such diverse languages and backgrounds then you connect with people you would never meet any other way. Right, right, and a lot of times people would say, you know, international students.
0:14:27.4 Aubrey: I personally will never equate the international student population to a dollar amount, right. But at the end of the day, when we look at the contribution in terms of financial contribution, either from the state or federal levels, and we do see a significant amount. I can share some of the data between 2018 and 2019, the international student population contributed $6.8 billion to the California economy and supported 70, almost 75,000 jobs. So that just shows that California is really a very attractive location for international students.
Wow, I'm shocked by that amount, I always knew that there is certainly a monetary value for having an international program because you have to pay more to cover the actual costs.
0:15:35.1 Cheryl: You're covering the actual cost because you're not a taxpayer, you don't get that break from California, but in the billions, I had no idea.
0:15:48.1 Aubrey: Yeah, the record I actually read for the US economy in 2019, I think they say it's $44 billion, a significant amount. In terms of, like you said, it's a contribution, but at the same time, beyond that, the value of the international education program. I think for domestic student populations, it is that connection where they get to meet students from, like at CSM, from 50 plus countries where they don't normally get to meet if they stay in the state of California. So I think the value goes beyond the dollar amount, right?
0:16:35.1 Cheryl: Yeah, definitely, and a lot of people who listen to this particular podcast work in marketing departments at community colleges, and I would think we always struggle with telling the story of Student Life. A lot of students don't want to go to a community college because they don't think there's a robust Student Life opportunity there, like there is at the four-year. But this is exactly one program that can be showcased as an amazing opportunity, having international students from 50 countries attend your college is a talking point that I think the community would be interested in knowing and it shows how great your student life is.
0:17:17.9 Aubrey: That's right! Also creating that interaction is so critically important. I reflected on my own experience when I first came to the states, even though I already finished my college education, I still was craving for that integration with the community, either at a college or outside of the college. So, I think we all do try very hard and do a really good job. I can speak for other community college international education programs too, to really provide that interaction and platform for international students to be able to interact and be a part of the college community experience. So, when I look at our college student clubs lists, I always find student presidents or officers serving on student clubs, a lot of them are international students. That also shows their enthusiasm to become a part of the college experience and the whole college part of college life. Yes.
0:18:41.8 Cheryl: Speaking of college life too, I remember Chinese New Year, and you putting that on.
0:18:50.6 Aubrey: That feels like so long ago though Cheryl, for some reason.
0:18:54.7 Cheryl: I'll never forget this, a little side story for listeners, Aubrey led Chinese New Year at Mira Costa and had some really involved students that did the lion dance. It was so much fun, and they did a great job. I took my son, who was probably five at the time, to see your presentation. You even went to the local library to educate people on behalf of the college about Chinese New Year. We went to one of your presentations and there were a lot of people there, a lot of senior citizens, he's the only kid, and you did a whole presentation on Chinese New Year, I think your students danced in the library in their lion… We did a lion dance.
0:19:33.9 Aubrey: We also provided some food.
0:19:36.1 Cheryl: Yes, that's right. Did you cook it?
0:19:40.8 Aubrey: No, I think we ordered, I can't remember now.
0:19:44.6 Cheryl: Well, Dylan asked you if anyone had questions and no one had questions, and I remember Dylan raising his hand and saying, “Are dragons real?” I know, first of all, I still remember he was the first-person asking questions, he was there the whole time listening, that was just so impressive. I think I actually had to break the bad news, right, I had to tell him that that wasn't real, it was mythical. But he took it well though, he was like, “I'm disappointed but I’m a big boy I can take that news.”
0:20:22.1 S1: But this is the beauty of having and learning from different cultures, right, and even at a young age, he still remembers. He remembers the lion dance, even though that's now eight or nine years ago.
0:20:37.1 Aubrey: Right, and I think at the college community culture, it's always one of the biggest draws for us to learn about one another through cultural practices, cultural traditions. I wouldn't be surprised if you Googled the community colleges, you would find many of us celebrating cultural traditions. Lunar New Year is big in California because of our populations. We also, at the College of San Mateo, we also do something, we call it World Chat, where the community comes together to learn about different cultures through languages. So, we will put on a one-hour activity, we will have a couple of students coming from our international program to lead a fun discussion, learning about that target language. So, we had Burmese World Chat, Nepalese, Japanese, just to name a few. I think our next one coming up is Arabic. That’s another example for the campus communities or even our bigger college community to learn about our students through cultural and language activities. Fun, though.
0:22:12.2 Cheryl: Great activities. Have you been able to continue to do things like that? Even in the current covid environment. Yes, everything is on Zoom.
0:22:23.4 Aubrey: Yes, so all the activities, College World Chat, and our Lunar New Year’s will also be on Zoom. Another big event or big series of events that we are putting on is the alumni speaker series this Spring. So as a result of our first very successful alumni, international alumni reunion, we call it. We're kicking off a new series focusing on success stories of our younger alumnus who actually finished their programs at CSM and moved on to either four-year or to their field of studies in a grad school or actually a professional world, to come back and to share their experiences. So everything's going to be on Zoom although I’ve heard a lot of Zoom fatigue these days. But still, when I come to think of it though, because of covid that really gave us this platform where we can connect people without the limitation of time and space. So that's something we're doing this spring.
0:23:46.1 Cheryl: Well, that's, I guess one of the positive outcomes of Covid has been the ability to have these virtual connections, but I can't help but think how stressful it must be and continues to be for students. Are they estranged from their families? Did a lot of them go home? What happened to these students?
0:24:06.9 Aubrey: So, since March 2020, we have been given this very specific new regulation or policy from the government, where F1 students that are on student visas could return home while maintaining their status. So, in other words, due to Covid, students, international students on an F1 visa, do have this option to return to their home countries and take online classes. Many of them did return, so I think at CSM we are at a 5050 split. Some remain here studying with us for one good reason I think, because of the time difference. Even though online classes are offered, many of them still require some virtual meetings or live lectures. So, some of the students prefer not to get up in the middle of the night, and I don't blame them. But many of them have decided to return home to study from home.
0:25:25.7 Cheryl: Interesting, and how has your enrollment for this coming year, has it been a challenge?
0:25:32.0 Aubrey: Yeah, just like everybody else, because students cannot travel freely as they used to be able to do, we have seen the decrease of enrollment. This is probably pretty true to other community colleges and four years as well. But we're trying, where we're connecting with students any shape or form, we can by doing, like I mentioned earlier, different outreach activities, so that we can still feel connected with them, prospective students and current students alike. You've also said you started an online program that students can do from their home countries. That's right, in our district, right before Covid, a year prior our district office initiated this new fantastic program called Global Online Learning, G.O.L, GOL for short. This is a new program for students to actually take classes from their home countries without being an F1 international student. So the first year, the program was relatively small, but we piloted it with, I think a few students from China took off. Then we used that pilot experience to expand our current program. So right now, we also have students from, I believe, from about 12-15 countries, currently enrolled in that program. That's great. Do you think,
0:27:12.7 Aubrey: Do you see that as something that will continue? For sure, for sure. This is definitely not just for international programs, I would say Covid, does provide us with this very unique opportunity to look at education, online education in a more, I think a global and more sustainable form. So how do we, continuing on, even after Covid, provide students this opportunity to take classes anywhere in the world. So, this is definitely a new trend, not just in the International Education Program, I will say for all education programs alike.
0:28:09.6 Cheryl: Hopefully, your programs will continue to grow and expand. I think if I can predict the future, I have a feeling programs like yours are going to grow, because I think in this age of Covid, people are itching to get out and see the world and they don't want to wait anymore. They've been locked down and now it's time when we're able to, I think traveling and learning new cultures is going to become a priority for a lot of people.
0:28:37.1 Aubrey: I also have to say Cheryl, it’s almost a little bit like a paradox, because when we think about international students studying abroad, the desire is to have that campus experience. But because of Covid, because of travel restrictions, students cannot get a campus experience, yet the desire is still to start with education abroad. So, while taking online classes, almost as if they're getting a head start, so for our program the desire for them is to take classes online for their first year or have that college experience online, and then the second and third year they can transition to a college campus to finish out their education. So, I think the design for that program also has a cost saving in mind. When this whole GOL program came out, it was based on the idea that students do not have to spend a lot of money for their living costs and other costs while they can secure their online education from their own country. But Covid gave us a different opportunity, so because of Covid, because people cannot travel, students cannot travel, so we do see more students, using this as an opportunity to get a head start with their education overseas.
0:30:19.4 Cheryl: Yeah, that's a great reminder because we focus, and a lot of what I've been focusing on is this college experience, but at the heart, you're providing education. Students still want that even if they can't have the campus experience, they still want an international education, and that's a role community college can continue to play, even when their campuses are closed. Yeah, great reminder. That's right. So, I'm sure that your students are looking forward to having that campus community back. They've stayed and they're engaged because of the quality of education, and that speaks to Community Colleges. Another reason why we love them and work at them and for them.
0:31:05.0 Aubrey: Exactly, and I also want to mention that sometimes students, it is an education for the international student population as well, to really talk about the value of community college. We do understand that a lot of them now understand what it is and the value we provide them. But it will continue to be an educational piece that we share our students' success stories, and we use all these amazing resources that we provide to all students, not just international students, to let them know that this is a great education product. I think more and more students internationally too, to see the value of easy transfer, easier transfer, from community college to UC or CSU schools, as opposed to applying as a freshman overseas. So that's definitely one thing I think as you and I continue to work on this amazing product that the international student population will continue to embrace.
0:32:24.9 Cheryl: Well, and mentioning stories, I know that communicators, marketers, college presidents are always looking for student success stories, and I bet there is just a wealth of them in the international office.
0:32:37.9 Aubrey: So much, so many... So many success stories, we produce them, just like you mentioned in this story telling format. We share the college with a college community, with the overseas communities as well. I want to share a story that I actually personally experienced in 2019. When I joined a recruiting trip to Asia with our provost, I was sitting in the Study Abroad agency's office in Yangon Myanmar. I remember vividly, so we're sharing our program with them and there were lines of a line of family actually waiting to speak to us. So, I reminded our provost, I say, you know, we have a great story we can share with a family, a student who actually came on and went... Went to CSM. Now, she is studying at UC Berkeley. So, I remember I had a profile, we made a beautiful flyer, so he was on the desktop, the computer we're going to share with the family sitting across the table from us. So as soon as the laptop was turned on, our provost started talking about a great transfer program to UC Berkeley. I remember the little girl, seven-year-old, not seven years old... A 17-year-old with her mother staring at that laptop, and then she said, we know her.
0:34:25.9 Aubrey: Wow, they actually knew each other from back home, so that... that was just such a vivid, vivid experience and memory shows stories or success stories is something that everybody wants to hear. So, for them, that was just such a valid way of sharing our students' success domestically and internationally alike.
0:34:56.5 S1: It also just shows what a small world it is. Very, very true, what a small world, even overseas, right. You just don't know. I remember as soon as the screen was on and she immediately, she was like, “we know her,” just like that. Amazing. Well Aubrey, I just really loved talking to you, I have learned so much about the International Programs, and I had asked you to come on because I think there's so much value in sharing these stories and promoting an understanding of why we need to have international programs on community college campuses and the role that they play in our institutions. So, thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Cheryl. And if anybody wants to learn more about your programs and what you do, is their information on your website?
0:35:49.6 Aubrey: Definitely, I will share that information. It's collegeofsanmateo.edu/international. That's our website.
0:36:06.2 Cheryl: Awesome, well, thank you so much, and take care of yourself, and I hope that you and I will get to connect in person. I know, I know. It has been too long. But thank you, Cheryl, thank you for having me on your podcast. Thank you for listening to Higher Education Coffee and Conversation. If you like the podcast, please leave me a five-star rating and to discover more great higher education-related content, make sure to visit us at graduatecommunications.com, and with that, I'm going to say thank you for listening, thank you for the hard work you do for students, each and every day.