AI and Leadership: Hype, Fear, or Transformational Power?

Don - 00:00:05: Welcome to High Octane Leadership with Donald Thompson. This season, we're diving deeper with more solo episodes, where I'll share the experiences that have led to recognition by EY, Forbes, Fast Company, and others. Not as a boast, but as milestones on my entrepreneurial path. From growing multimillion dollar firms to successful business exits and building high performance teams with a global perspective. I'll reveal the insights and strategies from my journey and share them with you so that we can win together. Alongside these solo episodes, we'll have industry visionaries and thought leaders, and we'll explore effective leadership. Ready to empower your leadership journey with real success stories? Let's embark on this transformational journey together. Welcome to another episode of High Octane Leadership with Donald Thompson. And a good friend of mine is here to talk all things AI. Bob Batchelor is a renowned author, world-class communicator, currently vice president for global marketing at Workplace Options, and a trusted and dear friend. Bob, welcome back, man. Bob - 00:01:14: Thanks, DT. I can't wait to dig into this because... You and I have been talking about this for a long time. Maybe I shouldn't say it, but I will anyhow. We are co-authoring a book on this topic because we both believe in it so much. And so I would call this CEOs and AI a strategic crossroad or endless possibility. And so we're going to look a little bit at the pluses and the minuses. Because I think when you get caught up in the hype out there, some people are a little overly hyped up on the optimistic side, others more negative. And we want to play it like we always do, kind of what we've seen, hands-on, what do we know, what are we hearing. So let's go from that perspective. Don - 00:02:03: Okay. Bob - 00:02:04: Game changer or just more tech hype? So 2023 Gartner report found that 42% of AI Implementation, stall before reaching production. So right off the bat, 42%, nobody would be happy with that if you just took the AI out of the picture. What do CEOs do next? If you're being pressured into investing without a clear roadmap or even really measurable returns. Don - 00:02:38: So AI, and I'm interested in your thoughts on this also, artificial intelligence is both scary and highly productive, right? Like things I'm using it for personally make maybe faster. A word that you use is a thought partner. It's accelerating that where I can really just bounce my own ideas with that digital thought partner really quickly and then get to a point of confidence in what I want to share or work on much faster. But... There is a lot of hype. And the challenge. Is knowing what to do with conflicting information. And so one of the reasons that you're seeing a lot of these implementations fail is nothing to do with AI. Has everything to do with the way people do change management and technology in general. Right? Those numbers are actually very similar. And so what I like to do, and this is putting my, you know, I used to be a tech CEO back in the day, but you put on my tech hat and say, all right, what projects worked? And why did they work? Okay, number one, you have to have C-level buy-in. And CEOs are not bought into something just because they fund something. A CEO can cut a check for something just to get people out of his or her ear. Just to band-aid it. That's not committed. A committed CEO means in their regular updates, are they hearing about AI and how it's being implemented? Most people are focused on the tools and what the tools do. That creates a scary proposition for people that are like, is AI going to replace my job? The way you want to think about it and the way I try to explain it better now is AI plus you equals you being able to be more productive and becoming more valuable in the enterprise. People are like, well, tell me more. I would like to become more productive, more valuable in the enterprise, and then dot, dot, dot, right? Be paid more, have more job security, different things. So AI being additive as a part of your tool set for how you do knowledge work. It's about adoption. It's about implementation, which includes education, which drives adoption. And anywhere where I've worked on technical projects that have not been implemented well or lasting. Is because the organization tried to drive the decision top down. And then people in the organization will give you a false positive. Love the new suite of AI tools. Not going to use any of them. Love the new tool for my design capability. I didn't choose that tool. Not going to use any of them. Right? And they go back to their day-to-day work. But what I have seen so far with AI in particular is there's so many small things that can be done to enhance the productivity of your workforce, but you have to package it and train it and educate it in that mindset. Bob - 00:05:46: Yeah, that's super. And it's so much about projects and education. One of the things... Maybe I shouldn't. I always say this. Maybe I shouldn't say it. And then I go right ahead and say it. I was an early, early adopter. I mean, I jumped in right away. And for you listeners that don't know me, I should be the most anti-AI person on the planet. I have a PhD in American literature. I've written 16 books. I sweated out those 16 books. And the thought that something could just replace me or that intelligence, that should be very much an affront to me. But, I view it as a tool. And because it's a tool, I can use that tool to make myself better, just like I use a hammer and not my forehead or my fist to try to bang a nail into the wall. So I remember early days, you couldn't talk about whether you were using AI or not because people were really freaked out. And I think it was maybe. Two or three months after ChatGPT launched, you and I were kicking it on a Friday, just hanging. Maybe there was a little bourbon involved. And I said, Don. I'll know if you're trying this out, but you should start. Yep. And I don't even remember if you were trying it, but I know a couple of weeks later, you came in with a big smile on your face into my office and you're like, yeah. I've been playing around with this. So that's still happening. We're years in now. We're a couple, handful, not even a handful. We're two, three years in. That's still happening around the world every day. People in leadership teams are still having that. Families are having that discussion. So. Do you think and do you counsel the CEOs you talk to and that you coach and the boards that you sit on? Do you think that CEOs need to be leading this charge? Should they be waiting and watching? I know you're hands-on, so you need to get in and play around. And it worked because you've done it. What are you telling other people? Don - 00:08:10: Same thing. Leaders may have bigger strategic roles or companies than I do. But the fundamentals are similar. Zeros are different, but some of the fundamentals. Transformational change starts from the C-Suite and it starts from the leader Because ideas can bubble up, but if they're not supported, where do they go? Right? So you have to have a leadership vision that change is good and this is the way AI is going to change us. It's not going to dehumanize us. You have to give people the ability to have a sandbox and have fun with it. Right. And that's what worked for me personally. And then once I experienced the value. All things AI started to open up because I found some things to do with, I'm not an amazing speller. I'm not an amazing writer like you and Jacqueline that helped me a bunch, but I have a lot of reasonably good ideas that I want to vet. And so I was able to and am able to use ChatGPT to more quickly sanity check my ideas before I'm confusing my whole team. Hey, man, what do you think? What do you think? Hey, you got five minutes? You got five minutes? And the next time, I've literally wasted five hours a week of productivity from people, maybe more, just with my ideas. Now I have that thought partner that can help me structure new ideas better. But because I saw that value, that time to value for me was very clear. Then I started to be an AI champion with other CEOs where I'm on boards. Hey, have you thought about using AI for XYZ? And yes, people will have some good confidentiality reasons why you shouldn't. How do we deal with client information? All of these things are good, rational things. But staying stuck on zero is not one of them. And so you've got to figure out and understand, and I'm just going to say this, AI is transformational. It is not hype. And you should either get on board of how to make it a tool for you or it will run you over. And the reason being is you're going to be competing with people that are using it. You're going to be competing with people that can think through and process information faster than you and your team. And so now you've actually created, right, a 50-pound weight vest. On each of your employees if you're not giving them the best tools, right? Think about it like this. Let's just say you have a golf team. And you're the golf coach and you're getting the team new commitment equipment. And so let's say there's eight kids on your team. And you each give them a bag full of golf clubs, and they each look at their golf clubs, and there's only a putter in the back. I'm like, coach, how are we going to win states with just a putter? I don't know, just try it, it'll work out. No, it won't, because there's supposed to be 14 clubs in the back. So as a coach, as a CEO, as an investor, you're supposed to give your team the best tools available to compete. You can't do that by limiting them or not creating the opportunity for training education. Here's the other thing, Bob, and I'll hush on this, but I'm excited and appreciate the question very much. We're afraid of things we're not educated on. So then we have to educate people about how AI can enhance their particular job. And then there's less fear, you usually aren't afraid while you're learning. But when you're not learning about something, then you're only reacting to the negative narrative you heard or the positive one. But it's not on a basis of education. It's a basis of frequency of communication. And that's not a lasting thing. So education around AI and how it can impact the work your team does is highly recommended. Bob - 00:11:58: Okay, so let's try one of the, a little tougher question maybe. All the hype and the fear, not all the hype, lots of hype, lots of fear around the forecast of how many jobs are going to be lost. Now, when they talk about jobs being lost. They talk about guys like me and the men and women and people on my team. They talk about. Quote unquote, average everyday employees. What they don't talk about is when it hits the C-Suite at the CEO level. Because if AI is going to make all those other people immaterial, then it's coming for the CEO. It's coming for the C-Suite too. So what would your counter be? What remains uniquely human about a CEO and a CEO's leadership that will be able to rise above the machines? Don - 00:12:52: That's a great way to phrase it, rise above the machines. Before the C-Suite answer. I want to actually look bottom up for this and what makes people unique in the process of growing a business. And, uh, There's a gentleman and this is, you know, this is from my point of privilege, right? So there's a gentleman that's doing some work at my home. And he was in our bonus room and we took down some pictures and there was just some damage to one of the walls that just, it just didn't look amazing. Right. And my wife is as particular as they come. Right? Bob - 00:13:34: Yes. Don - 00:13:35: Like, this is just like, and so she's out and I'm working from the house. And so I just go up and I look at the wall. I'm like, that does not look amazing. And so he's like, yeah, I can probably get to it next week. I was like, yeah, what about today? He was like, he said, I could probably get Tuesday, Wednesday. I was like, man, that'd be amazing. Like, what time tomorrow? And so everything he said, I said something radically sooner, right? And I said, just let me know when you can handle it. And the gentleman's name is Morgan, and I really appreciate it. He's a handyman and just does all kinds of different things for us. But he fixed it that day. And he's just walking out. Here's what he said. And this is the uniquely human piece of interactions. He said, you all have been an amazing, consistent client. And so I just stayed a little extra so I could go ahead and knock it out today. AI doesn't think through the gray area of your formal schedule that you were on today. Because this was out of schedule for Morgan. This additional thing. It wasn't his fault. It would be different if he broke something in my house. Fix it now. It was something was wrong with one of our walls. The picture, whatever, we're covering, it needed to be fixed. It did not look amazing, right? But he created that benefit analysis of me as an individual, me as a client, and he made that decision real time in a human-to-human interaction. If I'm going out, as one example, if I'm going out to buy a car. To have the money. I'm either going to pay cash. I'm going to lease it. I'm going to get car loan, whatever. Right. But I can get this car. And I look at the websites and all the things in the car. There's something about somebody being able to explain to you the questions you have in the moment. While you're driving the car and experiencing it. The human experience, it's almost like. Again, this is my privilege. I have a huge TV in my bonus room, right? This is my space, right? It's like 85 inch TV. Like nobody needs this, right? Like it's just ridiculous, right? But it doesn't replace the in-game experience. I went, Jackie and I went to Charlotte a couple weeks back, and we're in one of the suites. Somebody was gracious to us, and we were in one of the suites. And I got to do one of the things I've been wanting to do, which is see LeBron James play live before he retires. I just want to see him play one time. I've seen MJ once. I want to see Steph. There's a couple of basketball players that I just want to see one time and just give homage to how awesome they are, and I have that memory. And so that in-person experience. Is different. Than watching it at home on my television. They're both good, but they're different. AI is not going to transform the human experience. AI is going to allow you to be more productive at work so you can have more time for human experiences, more time for interaction with your team. Because you're not spending as much time on the research, on the data, on the things that a machine can do. And it allows you, it should allow you in the C-Suite, what is your superpower, is to be the chief encouragement officer. The chief innovation officer, the top recruiter in your firm for high-octane talent that you need to grow. And so AI should slice and shrink down the time you spend on things that can be automated so you have more time to spend on those things that are uniquely human. And that, I think, is the difference and why I'm so much more excited about it than I am afraid of it. But I'm a little afraid of it. There's things I do and sell and services, and I'm like, hey, this is not going to be worth as much with AI. But I think overall, I'm a fan versus fear for me. Bob - 00:17:36: Yeah, that's a good segue. You're the chairman of the board of WalkWest, a thriving digital agency here in the Southeast. You've just named Greg Boone as the incoming CEO, who is an AI aficionado at least. That's just the bottom line we'll put on him. I mean, he lives and breathes AI. So... Branding is right at the center of that work. And all the studies show that people really don't want AI creative. They're very afraid of it. They don't trust, even in their interactions, not sure about AI and that kind of thing. From a branding perspective, are you more afraid or more hopeful? Don - 00:18:25: I'm more hopeful for similar reasons that I use, but I'll be more succinct here. To build great brands. Is not creative standalone. It is creative, it is data, and it is the drive to commercial outcomes. And AI can help you effectively on the drive for commercial outcomes, the market research, the strategic plan development. AI is not going to replace strong designers and creative, but the data they need to drive that creativity to get there faster is going to create more room for the creative work at the same cost. That is what we have to do and explain and educate. If you just say AI, stand alone, it feels... Cringeworthy. Right? Like AI is doing the work. Right. And it's just I'll use your metaphor of a little disturbing, trying to put a hammer and a nail in with your forehead. I was like, Bob, that's aggressive. But if you have a hammer and you're hitting a nail in, right, well, that hammer has a purpose. And then when it's not time to use a hammer, use a different tool. Really, it's a function of how AI can help you be more efficient so that the human-centered focus is more valuable and you have more time to do that. And that's the way that we're looking at AI, but we cannot avoid it. Right? In terms of ideation, in terms of idea generation and different things, like don't play the game of creative work with your one hand tied behind your back. Because the best organizations in the world are embracing it. One other thing I'll share, and this was interesting, and both these organizations are both consulting and they have digital functions. So Accenture that we think about is business transformation consultants and different things, but they have an arm, Accenture Digital. There's Deloitte Digital, McKinsey, all these folks have digital arms. One of the interesting things, McKinsey, of the ones I just mentioned, has stayed all in on DEI. Now, how does DEI, you know, I'll track back to AI in a minute. Because the McKinsey CEO said, and I'm paraphrasing, but this is his quote. Is I'm playing for a long-term future. And anybody that doesn't think having diverse teams doesn't matter, then I'm happy to compete with them. Substitute AI and DEI. If you're taking a long-term view. Have to have the things in place within your organization and innovate. That is creating jobs and market leadership. Not just the elimination of jobs. See, what we do typically, all of us do this. We'll talk about all the jobs that AI could displace. But we don't talk about any of the ones that it creates. So now watch. If AI continues to grow as expected, right, and become a part of the fabric of business in almost every way. Well, what runs the machines that drive AI? Well, there's going to be more server farms. There's going to be more plants. There's going to be higher energy consumption. What are we going to do about that? That's job creation. There's going to be the ability for people that instead of, watch this, and if you're in universities, you're going to hate this, that people with a two-year degree. But also a certificate in prompt engineering with AI are going to be as productive as somebody with a master's degree. And that means that individual doesn't have $150,000 of student debt. And they're going to work for the same $50,000, $60,000, $70,000 entry role, but they're not burdened by the enormous debt for an education that didn't bear fruit. So when we reflect on jobs lost, that's one perspective, and that's real. Like, I'm not here trying to say that those numbers are made up. What I am trying to say is I am an optimist in how do we help people understand how we can make AI the next frontier of innovation and have a lot of people participate. Bob - 00:22:36: Yeah, that's good. That's good stuff. It's. It's tough to read those numbers and not be fearful because we've all watched too many science fiction films. And... But there's going to be winners. There's going to be big winners. One of the things I'm interested in knowing and hearing from you is that. What AI looks like right now is a groundswell of startups and entrepreneurs who are using their nimble quickness to get ahead. But then you have these kind of Cold War-looking monoliths who are really... The evil empire. They're the Death Star up in there in AI space. Love them or hate them, that's a lot of, it's concentration of power. Do you worry that that's going to overtly manipulate the entire ecosystem as we get bigger and bigger? Don - 00:23:38: Yes, it is a huge concern. Because now... With the machines picking the winner, so to speak. It is not about your competency. It's about what the machine says about you and your company. And to have all of that be manipulated behind the scenes in ways that most people don't understand. Is pretty scary. I'll give an example of bias in AI that I heard, I'll use someone else's credibility on this one. So most people know the name Steve Jobs and Apple, right? But his partner was Steve Wozniak. Bob - 00:24:21: Mm-hmm. Don - 00:24:23: And about six years ago, Apple came out with the Apple Card. And they wanted to put in the iPhone and the different things, right? And I was very honored to be at a talk that Steve was doing over at NC State. I'm an emeritus member of the Computer Science Strategic Advisory Board. And one of the things he said in this meeting that he was really upset about, and he talked to the principals at Apple, was that he and his wife have the exact same income. They don't have separate accounts. They keep all of their money is what's yours is yours, what's ours together. And they applied for the Apple Card. And his credit limit was higher than his wife's. Bias and AI. At a company he founded. Bob - 00:25:10: Yeah. Don - 00:25:11: He was not happy. He had the power. To chat with people about how to change it though. His dissatisfaction plus privilege. You can pick up the phone and talk to the CEO of Apple and go, what's going on? You need to dig into this, right? For those of us that are curated by a house or by a car or our kids are sending an application in for college or for law school or different things, and now all of a sudden the machines are picking the winner? That part to me is scary. Like I'll be really direct with you on that. Because you don't know the levers of control that we're going to seed by adopting this technology in every way. Let's use social media, for example. And I forget the name of the documentary on Netflix that I watch. They were talking to a lot of social media, high level technologists founders. And wasn't it interesting to me that most of these folks in the social media space didn't let their kids on social media. Or they severely limited the amount of time the kids could spend on social media. Because they know it was poisoning the minds of young people. Bob - 00:26:34: Wow. Don - 00:26:34: So if you think about that for social media, and then AI is a 10x transformation. Bob - 00:26:41: Mm-hmm. Don - 00:26:43: Right. There's cause for concern. And those are a couple of examples, but there's cause for concern. Bob - 00:26:50: Yeah. Now that the Millennials have turned 40, everybody's crying about age discrimination. And it's rampant. And you know that, I mean, if you just put two and two together, that the AI choices are part of that. And whoever's programming that is also a problem. But it's completely unfair. And people were reacting. And it's interesting, the reaction that people give. Gets a certain level of hype and people send it around. But in the long run, companies understand how... Debilitating that is to them. Because it's all about brand equity. And the next generation, they're paying attention. My kids are a little younger than yours. My youngest is 19. They talk about brand and the values of a company totally different than I did when I, I didn't know anything about that when I was 19 years old, but they're also going to remember. And it's like companies are very short-sighted when it comes to some of the fallout. They're smart enough to know better. Don - 00:28:14: The profit motive. Is intoxicating. And when you mentioned the five kind of, you said evil empire. I did not disagree with you. But since we're on tape, I'm going to co-sign. That is unfortunately accurate. And then if you think about the press conference, one of the ones that Trump did and Bezos is up there and Altman and like five to seven people at the largest companies in the world. And you start to realize what's happening. And it's right before our eyes. And so we can't say we didn't see it. We have to determine what we're going to do about it. And that's on a lot of different fronts. But it's not as if people aren't working in plain sight. Yes, there's things we don't know about, for sure. But what we see in plain sight of who has access. Listen, again. Sometimes I'll say not political, but this is just bananas. It doesn't matter who you voted for. Why is Elon Musk doing a press conference in the Oval Office with his kid on his shoulders? That's not normal. That's different. Bob - 00:29:29: Mm-hmm. Don - 00:29:31: Right. And so here's the thing. There's no normal anymore. There's no, we used to could rightly or wrongly. There were some things that provided consistency. Right. Whoever was in the Oval Office, that was the president. You gave a certain amount of respect to the president. And if you didn't like him, you're going to vote him out. You didn't listen. But you had a certain respect just for the for the office and different things. And now what we're seeing on a lot of different fronts is it is a financial capitalist engine that is who we are as a country. And we don't really believe much else. And again, I'm happy to take questions. I'm happy to buy you a cup of coffee where you can argue about the moral fiber of America and all the different things. I mean, people voted because they believe Trump's going to make their 401k go higher. Didn't matter who the individual, like, again, I'm not making a judgment of that someone did that or not. I'm making a judgment of you trying to explain it away to me. That's what I'm like. I'm very fine to function in what is. I don't care what he does. I want the borders closed and I want more money in my account. Right? That's why I did what I did. Right. But don't make it a morally sound argument that you're voting for the future of democracy. No, you're not. You're just not, right? And when we think about AI, the same people, and this is why I wrap in the political. Who's going to protect us? From the multi-multi-billionaires that are creating and own the infrastructure. If they are now hand in hand with the government that's supposed to regulate them, the only reason that people in government are there is because those same people gave them $500 billion. $500 million for their campaign or whatever the number is. It's tough. Bob - 00:31:33: Yeah. Don - 00:31:33: That's tough. Bob - 00:31:35: Yeah, I'm not necessarily like, I'm not burning my credit card or anything or going out and live in the woods and eating berries and sticks. I don't have that capability. Don - 00:31:47: Me neither. Bob - 00:31:47: I'm not trying to live off the grid, but it is fundamentally. Tipping the scales of balance that, that. Our system has been set up on. And I was a professor for a long time. I have friends who are as far left as you can go. They would give you a totally different argument than I'm given like the, I'm giving the Mr. Rogers version compared to them. And I also have friends on the right who think Trump should, honest to God, be on Mount Rushmore right now. So I can see both sides, but... I'm for the people. And so I guess my challenge is those tech powerhouses, they employ people and downstream, they employ a lot more people. Don - 00:32:38: Absolutely. Bob - 00:32:38: So we need that. Don - 00:32:39: Absolutely. Bob - 00:32:40: But we also need oversight. You can't let the most economically powerful in a society run free. You just can't. Don - 00:32:53: No. And... That's where we're headed, though. So what's going to stop that momentum? And I, like you, I'm very fortunate at this point in my life and the work that I've done. The things that I'm seeing don't affect me directly quickly. Right. Because the, if somebody says tax cuts for the rich, well, I'm like, who's that? And I was like, Oh, that's me. Right. Like, like, okay. Right. But I also serve on the board of nonprofits that are serving thousands of people that are affected in a negative way if there is an allergic change in the way the government does business. So my heart strings in the way I vote and the way I spend my time. Outweigh my purse strings. Bob - 00:33:44: Mm-hmm. Don - 00:33:46: That's me personally. It doesn't make me better than someone else. It's just the platform that I come from. That's just more important to me to think about the broader scope of things. Because I have more than enough and continuing to progress. Like it's not a good stop. I'm more than enough and I've made money in Democrat, Republican, but like you just figure it out. But there's some people that need our support to figure it out. And with AI now back to that very specifically. We've got to make sure that the education about these tools is broadly accessible. And that is a good thing that the tech companies are doing. There is a lot of free content. Now it's a function of... If you have a high school diploma. To your degree, and you're reasonably intelligent. But high degree of hard work and curiosity to learn. You can go learn how to leverage AI tools in content development, AI tools in programming and different things. You don't have to get 10 years of college. You can get certificates, different things of that nature. And there is a lot of free tools that the tech companies are providing to upskill and create competency in the new technology because they need a workforce. They need consumers. So that part, to me, is the win-win. And now we've got to make sure and encourage people not just to look at AI as a thing happening to them. But AI as a tool to help them meet their goals in the new economy as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, as a top flight employee, all the things. But we have to encourage that AI adoption and education is very broad-based. Bob - 00:35:28: Yeah. Yeah. It has to be better than other. I mean, there are plenty of people. Plenty. Vast understatement. There are millions of people who have no internet access right now. In the United States of America. And that's ridiculous when you compare us to other industrialized powers. So. AI may be the chance where we get to correct that, but it's not looking like it when you undercut the infrastructure of most institutions. But so it's tough. I'm a PR person. I'm a communicator. So to me, it's like every problem's a communications problem. And so... I think about that band of robber barons at one time in American history who all became the greatest philanthropists. America's ever seen and maybe the world's ever seen Somebody who's at the top of one of those companies now. You could become the Johnny Appleseed of AI Implementation. And you could just go from city to city, like Carnegie putting the libraries in, put in the infrastructure, put in a, instead of a Carnegie library, put in a X person AI education center. Just tack it right on the library. AI education center around the world, around the country, you would be a hero in one fell swoop. J.D. Rockefeller was one of the worst individuals to ever walk the face of the earth. Nobody knows that. Nobody thinks about that now. Don - 00:37:09: Everybody loves Rockefeller. Bob - 00:37:12: Rockefeller Center, all this, you know. Go to Cleveland. Like half the building's a Rockefeller. That's all it takes. You can turn it around. Don - 00:37:21: It's a free brand. Bob - 00:37:22: And do something. Do something positive. Don - 00:37:24: Audience, I want to tell you, there's so much to Bob's skill set. Bob's a cultural historian. So when he's talking about Rockefeller and his background, it's because he knows detail on historical figures at a level that like. I'll just ask Bob. That's the level. Like I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even ask chat. I'd be like, Bob, what do you think about this? What happened? X, Y, Z. But I wanted to share that because that brings up a great point though, is legacy, right? People want to be remembered. And so that's something that may be a ray of hope. Some of these leaders, right? Because how much is enough? Like I'm into, listen, I'm all about getting paid, man. I wake up chasing paper. I'm good with it. Like, I'm fine with it. But like, how much money is enough to where you don't start to look out for others while you're doing the thing for you and your family? That's the part I don't understand about folks sometimes. Not your ability to take your skills, your hard work, your resources, and do what you do. Right? But at a certain point, when do you become other-centered? And my hope would be that some of these titans would take on that personality. And even if it's for their own vanity. Bob - 00:38:40: Yeah. Don - 00:38:40: Even if it's for their own legacy building, just for, like, whatever the reason, if there was 50 AI centers and majors, like, it'd help a lot of people. Bob - 00:38:50: Yeah. Don - 00:38:50: And that's good stuff. It's a great idea. Bob - 00:38:52: Yeah, this is, we're coming up on the 100th anniversary of The Great Gatsby. And that happens to be one of the things that I geek out on this novel, which I've, I think, read 153 times. The idea of The Great Gatsby is that there is an American Dream. And it may be a disillusioned chase, but you can still reach for the brass ring. In Gatsby, he comes up short because he confronts the institutional power represented by Tom Buchanan. But he still went for it. And in today's world, wouldn't it be great to give people the idea that the American Dream still exists? It's not an illusion. It's not something that they teach you in school to placate you. It actually exists. And if AI is that vehicle that I can have a PhD level performer in my pocket, on my phone, every minute of every day, helping me be a better human being, better worker, better friend, better colleague, better husband or wife, better partner. I'm all for that. So Bill Gates, if you're listening, this is what you have to do. This is your game plan. Start building AI education centers in these cities and welcome the people who need the most hope. That's how you build a better society, to use AI in a way that makes sense. I mean... The most complex problems the world has ever seen are those that are just on the horizon, just on the horizon. We know they're there. We've known they're there for a long time. Climate change started in the '70s. We started thinking about that. They were thinking about that in the 1800s when they're blowing smoke from all the new industrial institutions out into the world. But we're going to confront these things big time. Don - 00:41:00: Yep. Bob - 00:41:00: And AI can help us get there, but it can't be just a handful. It can't be a literal or metaphoric handful. It's got to be everybody. And you never know where that next genius is going to come from. But if they can't get access to internet, how the hell are they ever going to get access to AI and help the world become a better place? So that's where my optimism is. Don - 00:41:28: That's good stuff. I don't have, I usually have plenty to add. I don't have anything to add to that. Like, because it's both aspirational. Right? But also within our reach. Bob - 00:41:42: Yeah, Tim Cook, everything I read about Tim Cook, he seems to be a good guy. I mean, a decent human being. Tim Cook AI Education Center. It's got a nice ring to it. The Cook Center. Drop the mic. Cook Center. 50 cities. Pick them. Don - 00:41:58: And the thing about it is, Bob, everyone should do what they can with the resources we have. So we got to talk offline of like, what are we going to do to create some narrative pressure or some asks on people on our networks that could push that narrative? And most people are follow the leader. So we got to do is figure out how to get one. Bob - 00:42:18: Yeah. Well. Yeah. And we need some money. Don - 00:42:23: One of the billionaires. Not you and I. Not you and I. I know what my pay grade is. Bob - 00:42:30: Don's paycheck has a couple zeros in it. Mine's pretty meager. Don - 00:42:34: I don't know. The AI Center is within my wheelhouse. I mean, a small one, like for three people, we could have a center. Bob - 00:42:42: We'll start it with three. We'll start somewhere. Don - 00:42:44: But we got to start somewhere. And let me ask you this, Bob. I want to go back to a statement you made earlier of you being someone that should be apprehensive of AI, right? You talked about the 16 books you didn't mention, which I will, the 50-plus books you've edited. And all of the different authors and different folks that you counsel and come in contact with, all the folks that want to be authors that you chat with. So you have an expansive knowledge, but then as someone that has produced great content. AI could threaten your magic. Right? And so how would you describe it? I know why usage you adopted. How would you describe it to other knowledge workers, other savants in their space, other folks that spent time and money getting educated in their specific domain, and that's a part of who they are? How would you help them not see AI as so much of a threat? Bob - 00:43:40: That's a great question. And I'll say it through my own lens. What I knew is that... I could get a thought partner with AI that wouldn't get sleepy. And my wife, Suzette, listens to my dreams and aspirations all the time. But sometimes, you know, she's not having a great day or she's got something else to do. And she's like, my love. Okay, enough. As AI progressed and I saw the capabilities, it was just so much more benefit than potential loss. And now here's the controversial part. When they started creating the first AI models, the Washington Post had a database you could go in. Like four or six of my books had already been used. I'm like, these bastards are already using my intellectual property. Now I'm going to get back at them. I'm going to use them. And what I've done recently. Now that you can create private GPTs, I've created ChatBot. And ChatBot draws from my actual work because I just uploaded my book manuscripts. Myself. It's my intellectual property. It's me. So when I have a conversation with chat Bob and want to talk about, you know, what, here's an idea. Is this idea good? How would you approach this idea? If you were book editor at the New York Times, what would you think of this idea? And I can refine my ideas. Then that makes me have more time and just time productivity, I can get to the best idea faster. And that's what smart people want to do. I don't want to write. In fact, I refuse to write a book proposal and send it out to a million publishers and hope that one of them comes back with a yes, because it's a six month to a year process of writing that proposal. It could be a year before you hear back from them. There's no urgency, but I'm fighting against time here. I'm tick tock every day. I'm a little bit older. I don't know how many years I have left. So I'm using AI to gain back time, the most precious thing. And everybody who's worked hard at something. Has put in the time. That's what makes success. You've put in the time. Even somebody who's, Michael Jordan seems like, oh, Michael Jordan was a natural. No, he got cut from his sophomore year. No natural. There's very few. That savant level is 0.0000001%. There's only one Mozart. Nobody else says, oh, that guy's like Mozart. No, there was one. So for us normal people who are just intellectually curious and smart. Need time. And time to me is repetition through ideas. And AI helps me get through that faster. And that would be my argument. Don - 00:46:55: Um, it's powerful because people are chasing. More time with family, more time with things that they love to do. Bob - 00:47:06: Exactly. Don - 00:47:07: Right? Like, they don't want to necessarily, nor do I, like, work more just to work more. Right. It's early in my career was work more and harder because I wanted to pay for my kids college education cash. So they didn't have any loans. Work more was to put my home with my family in a safe neighborhood. So that my odds of having any issues in my home were different. And so people that are listening can think about what you would do with that time. What's that time driver for you? And let AI help. Bob - 00:47:42: Yeah. Don - 00:47:42: And that time to value that you described. So I don't have anything to add, my friend. I think that you're a great example from that perspective, because you should have feared it, but you embraced it. And not only that, right, you encouraged other leaders like me, right, to give it a try. And then we got hooked. And in a good way. And now I'm thinking about businesses that align with this. How does this help with? We are talking about a private GPT right now. Think about this. It's super cool. And we're working on this in the background. Think about all of the content The Diversity Movement has created over the last five years. We already have. Of the best private anti-bias chat bots for communication for leadership in the world. Bob - 00:48:31: Yep. Don - 00:48:32: And now we've just got to productize that knowledge and deliver it in a different format. Bob - 00:48:36: Yeah. Don - 00:48:36: And so I want to just say that I put like that nudge a year ago, maybe it was like, I don't remember. And then chat continued to accelerate the versions, but we were playing with it. Now it's leading us to where we can create a whole new potential product faster than we created the entire diversity movement. Bob - 00:48:56: Yep. Don - 00:48:57: It is a business accelerator. Bob - 00:49:00: Yeah. I'll tell you, you know, and then we can wrap up because you and I could just sit here all night and talk. One of the things, this is so geeky, I can't even believe I'm admitting this on the podcast. The greatest thing you can do as a scholar is create your own theory. So when you come up through the ranks, you're really... Based your, your expertise is based on your ability to adapt and adopt other people's theories. And so every discipline has its own set of theories and it's theorists who are held up on a pedestal. Before I got out of academe. Started creating my own theory. And I've been thinking about this for five years, writing about it. Private stuff that I haven't shared, journaling, putting my thoughts down. I put all that stuff into ChatGPT, into ChatBot. Chat Bob loves this theory. And. I shared it with a very small select group of scholars who have put in the time, have read all the theorists, and they love it too. And so even though I'm not ensconced in the ivory towers anymore. I think I have something here that could far outlive me intellectually. And I might've got there without ChatGPT, but having ChatBot to bounce ideas off. And refine ideas and give me the negatives. I'm like, so one day my prompt was basically like this. It was longer, but my first prompt was, you're the biggest skeptic on the planet. You don't think anybody with a PhD has the right to create a new theory. You're anti-theory as a matter of fact. How would you look at this theory and assess it? And I start building. Gave me a great answer. I start building because I don't, chat's a little too positive for me sometimes. So I force it to be mean to me because that's another way for me to accelerate my thinking. And I'm telling you. And I'm not even going the normal scholarly route. When I'm ready with my theory, I'm just going to put out a book version of it, 100 pages, 150 pages. I'm going to give it away for free. Let everybody go at it, have at it with my theory. And people will use it because I've already released it in little chunks and people have liked it. I've published a couple things, done a couple conference papers. But ChatGPT. Accelerated my process and gave me time back. So that's super geeky. That is so geeky. But- Don - 00:51:54: That's awesome. Bob - 00:51:58: So I love chat Bob. He's a great guy. Don - 00:52:01: I shared this with you, but I'll share it with the group, my version of that. I wrote a, I have a Netflix show concept. And my version of chat and I built a show treatment. In under an hour. That's pretty solid. Bob - 00:52:20: There you go. Don - 00:52:21: And we're going to start using some of our connections to get some more deeper, real feedback. I always have lots of ideas. I have a friend, Cicero, and he's an agent. In the entertainment space. And so about once a year, I just call him for lunch and I pitch him my seven ideas that he's gonna take me to Hollywood. And because he's an agent, if you wanna talk about chasing paper, he's like, yeah, nah. No, that's ridiculous. I'm not pitching that to anyone. No, that's been done. And then maybe one out of seven, he'll be like. And so I can't wait to share this latest one with Cicero because he's like you in that we're friends and we're such good friends that we don't sugarcoat each other. Bob - 00:53:07: Yeah. Don - 00:53:08: If something's good, we say it's good and we give each other props. If something's not ready for primetime, we let each other know and go from there. So I do not have a theory. So you win this round of working with AI. But what I would share is that... It can allow you to chase your new ideas and dreams so much faster. And I think that's what we're both saying. And Bob? I could talk to you all day. I'm so happy we're doing this as a part of high-activity leadership and just you and I chopping it up more because I always take a page of notes. And I'm always better because we've interacted. And so I appreciate it. Bob - 00:53:48: Thank you, Don. I love it too. So let's keep doing it. And until next time, thanks everyone. Don - 00:53:53: Thanks everyone. Thank you for joining us on High Octane Leadership with Donald Thompson. Today's episode is a step in our collective journey towards leadership excellence. Remember. Every story we share and every insight we gain is a piece in the puzzle of our leadership journey. For more insight and detail, hit the subscribe button so that we can stay connected. For deeper information and more episodes, go to donaldthompson.com. Continue to lead with vision and purpose. And until we meet again, embrace your role as a high-octane leader in the ever-evolving world of business.