Music. Hello everyone and welcome to episode what number would it be i don't know whatever number this is yeah uh probably episode 55 or 56 of hidden wings and bloodlust a podcast about ladybirds and ladybugs around the world i'm rachel and today i'm speaking to a good friend of mine john from upminster and last september we went we visited scotland and actually saw a huge number of ladybirds um and would you like to introduce yourself and yeah i'm um john from upminster my name
is john attiwell i work in conservation for a conservation charity based in southeast England but last year I had the privilege of working for a nationwide conservation organization up in the Scottish Highlands. So I was living in Granton-on-Spey and my good friend Rachel popped up to visit and we went ladybird seeking. We also went whale watching but But the ladybird seeking had rather more success, didn't it, Rachel?
Yeah, we certainly saw out a few ladybirds and managed to see quite a number of impressive species, actually, such as the five-spot. The five-spot ladybird was absolutely remarkable. This lady's ability to find ladybirds is really something extraordinary, ladies and gentlemen. She's phenomenal at spotting ladybirds. And spot ladybirds, she did. Yeah. And so we were down on one of the rivers in the Highlands. I think we were near Feshy Bridge, is that right? It was Feshy Bridge, yeah.
It was Feshy Bridge, wasn't it? Yeah. So we popped down to Feshy Bridge, just near the Highland Wildlife Park. Shameless plug for my girlfriend's former place of work. Yes, yes, yeah. Well worth a visit. But we pop down to Feshy Bridge where the river Feshy, I assume it's called, flows over some boulders and big riverine shingle banks have formed. Yes. Which Rachel reliably informed me the habitat for the five spot ladybird. Yes, they are the habitat for the five spot ladybird. Yes.
We poked around, didn't we? Yeah, we poked around a few stones and a few shingles and stuff. And then what happened is I was looking, there was a big log, wasn't there? There was, yes. And there was some green herbage growing up the rock. I don't know, the log rather. I can't remember what it was. And in there, you spotted this little tiny red jewel, didn't you? Not much bigger than a two-spot.
Yeah, exactly. And it was a five spot ladybird So it had the general look of a two spot to my eyes Yeah But with a pattern similar to a five spot That's missing the front two spots If that's something you could possibly visualize Yeah, yeah So it's definitely got that seven spot pattern Yes Yeah And that two spot vibe Yes And all together it makes something entirely itself. And I was fascinated as to how it would be finding food on those riverbanks.
What are they eating down there? Are they aphid? Aphids, yeah, aphids. So what drives them to that habitat? Well, there's a number of theories actually.
So in a lot of countries in Europe, they have a slight preference for that habitat, but they're in but they're quite sort of generalists so you do find them you find them you find them a lot there but you do find them in other parts like you do find them in people's gardens and stuff um and you do find them in fields and that and that sort of thing but they think what happened is like um so the five spot i think it i might be mistaken here but i think that the i think it's kind of like on the
edge of its range so i think it's like um the other habitats that it's found in i think it might be slightly warmer or something like that and i think what's happened is that in the uk the the shingle habitat is something that not other not many other lady birds go on to and so they have a lot they get a lot of competition from things like the seven spot or the two spot or things like that. And I think that because of that.
That is not somewhere you generally find ladybirds, and I think they've discovered a little niche there. So it's competitive exclusion perhaps. Yeah. So that's a similar story to a lot of birds, isn't it? Yeah. Because there are a lot of birds that live on the continent and they live in a range of habitats. But in the British part of their range, the habitat needs to be spot on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Otherwise, they're not able to thrive. Yeah. So that's really interesting.
I think so. But that was so memorable. Yeah, it was very memorable. And such a good find, wasn't it? Yeah. So where else did we go to? We went up to, didn't we? You found a couple of rather special ladies. Yes. There, didn't you? Yeah, we found the, so we found the hieroglyphic ladybird. Yes. They were magnificent. Yes. Quite, I wouldn't say inconspicuous But I know that means something very specific in ladybird language So they're not one of those ladybirds, are they?
No It was subtle Yes, subtle, subtle So it was quite subtle But very, very beautiful Many of the individuals we found were melanistic Yes, yes Completely black, lighter Yeah, yeah. And we also found some that did display the classic hieroglyphic marking. Yes, yes. And we found nearly half a dozen, didn't we, along... Yeah, we did. We found loads. It was in that forest, wasn't it? Kind of like near the header?
Yeah, so we were... Yes. Is... Rather, it's not an unloved portion of land, but it's not considering the spectacle available in the Scottish Highlands. Yeah. This is a little patch of birch, wood and heather sandwiched between two railway lines. Yeah. Next to a go-kart track and a dump. Yes. So being from Essex I felt right at home.
Yeah But it was a really It was a remarkable place It's also host to some Very particular and rare invertebrates We had a fabulous day We saw lots of lizards We saw lots of common lizards And we saw several common lizards We saw some frogs We saw numerous solitary bees didn't they even at that late stage in the year still some solitary bees and also the Scotch the Scotch Argus, yes plenty of Scotch Argus the Scotch Argus is all over the Highlands at that time okay yeah.
Except up on the high on the high tops right yeah so they, they get very used to them I do love a Scotch Argus though and I'm always do you know why they're called an Argus I don't know do you know how they got their name. How did they get their name? Apparently it's a creature from Greek or Roman mythology with lots and lots of eyes. That's interesting. That makes sense, yeah. And because the Scotch Argus has eye spots around the edge of the wing, a little bit like a ringlet. Yes.
That's why it's called an Argus because it resembles the Argus with all its eyes. Yeah. We also saw Striped Ladybird. Yes, that was one of my favorite. That was near the five spot, I think, wasn't it? I think we found a few, didn't we? Yeah, we found a few. We found one at Thurston Bridge. Yeah, yeah. I know that I'd found it before. Yeah, yeah. And it's a rather beautiful looking...
With white bands down the side. Yes, yes. So it recalls a little bit of Cream Spot Lady Bird, but it's somewhat larger, isn't it? Oh, it's about the same size as a Seven Spot. It's the same size of a Seven Spot. Yeah. And I found I was very impressed by these. And I'd seen them a few times during my trip to Scotland. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I hadn't encountered them before.
So I mean I'm not a ladybird expert by any stretch of the imagination butterflies and moths and birds and dragonflies really are as far as I go aren't they, but I've got quite I was certainly enjoyed looking for ladybirds with Rachel it's such an interesting we saw crested tit there as well didn't we yes we did yeah and we saw lots of common lizards as you said Yeah, they were just like Leaping out of the ground Like they Yeah They were loads They were everywhere,
Yeah In a place that gets Very cold in winter Of course And we saw the Heritage Railway The Heritage Diesel train Went by Yes Yeah, I remember that, That was quite a nice touch Yeah To see a little bit Of railway history, Oh yeah, we saw dolphins We saw dolphins, didn't we I was going to stick with I was going to stick with The patch near, I did say its name And I probably I don't know if I should have But.
The place near I saw those It's a great site for Longhorn Beetles too Yes Yeah we saw a few of those didn't we. And that was That was rather beautiful And Heather Kalites I think we saw too I think we did yeah Getting to the end of its season by the time, Because if anything We went a bit late In the year Didn't we Well it was It was just It was in September So it was Beginning of September Yeah.
But I think what was quite unusual about it, I think that was the nicest weekend that there had been all summer. It wasn't a particularly hot summer, was it? It was one of the nicest weekends we'd had for a while, certainly. Yeah, yeah. I'd had some lovely survey days in early September, but then after our visit, the weather went. Because the weather turns bad quickly at those latitudes, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, and then we took the ferry to the Outer Hebrides, didn't we?
And straight back Yeah, and we saw, well, we saw dolphins We saw bottlenose dolphins following the ferry Just leaping in and out of the water And I said bottlenose dolphins, didn't I? I hope that Rachel's going to edit some of this out in post-production She's shaking her head, would you believe? No, no, I don't really know the difference between all the different dolphins. I thought it was... They were definitely common dolphins. So they had the beige-yellow flank markings.
I don't think you get bottlenose dolphins that far north in the Atlantic. I thought they all had bottlenoses, to be honest. They do have bottlenoses, but the bottlenose dolphin is a particular species. Yeah, yeah. It's Truncatus, I think it's... Someone saw a whale, but I didn't see a whale. Yeah, there was an alleged minke whale, but I'm sceptical. I know that the tour guide who found it was paid handsomely to see it. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't. I suspect it was.
But they are up there, of course. Oh, yeah. In the Minch, there are minke whales. There's a good population of minke whales in the Minch. And I did actually see one the following weekend after we went over to Skye. Oh, right, yeah. And we did see the arching back of a minky whale against a backdrop of terrible weather. So you definitely chose the right weekend. Yeah. And yeah, dolphins leaping behind the boat was quite something.
That was quite special. It was a bit late for the seabirds, wasn't it? So we didn't see much of the right seabirds. Did you say there was a skewer? We had great skewer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And possibly Arctic. It's fading in my memory. Yeah, yeah. But it was certainly a beautiful place and a great place to go looking for inverts. Yeah. In addition to the longhorn beetles up there, I saw bee beetles during that summer. Did we see a large ladybird?
Am I imagining? I think we saw a large ladybird. I think we saw a large ladybird. I'm pretty sure that we saw a large ladybird. Did you find that in Boat of Garton?
Maybe. like I think I think I think yeah yeah I do like a larch ladybird so remind me what the larch ladybird looked like it's brown and it's got like is it inconspicuous it's not inconspicuous it's, well it it is but it's not an inconspicuous yeah it is inconspicuous but it's not an inconspicuous ladybird it's it's it's it's brown it kind of looks it kind of looks like a very dark like a kind of a like a weird 10 spot um it kind of doesn't have any doesn't have any spots occasionally
we'll have like a dark brown spots it's like a little coffee bean, that's that's the one that's the one that's the one it's got a line down the middle of the lady bird like it's got it looks like a little coffee bean yeah um that's that that's and i think we did see one didn't we we did we did see one yeah we did and in addition we saw seven spots yes and and also the can i just say the large ladybird has got the most amazing scientific name yes.
What a name we also yeah of course we also saw seven spots yes did we see 10 do we see 10 spots I can't remember. Okay. Okay. I can't remember what common species we saw. Three rare ladybirds was... Yeah, yeah. ...really blew me away. Yeah. And the striped ladybird. Yeah. We saw a cream spot, I think. We did, yes. Yeah, we saw a cream spot. And we saw some shield bugs. Yes, we did. We saw a parent bug, didn't we, in fact? Yes.
Yeah, we did. That was really cool, actually. Yeah, so it wasn't parenting its offspring when we saw it. It was just hanging out. And he thought I was making it up. It was an invented insect. But no. Yeah. Yeah, so we had a good time, didn't we? We had a really good time. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Were the ospreys still there when you came up?
They'd gone, hadn't they? um i think i think one of them had just been had one of them just died or being eaten by something, i think i think we were looking for them they lost their chicks yeah yeah yeah no we don't think we saw them, No, I don't think we saw them. Yeah. But we saw cresties. Yeah. And we saw plenty of... Did we see a bearded tit? No, no. You're way out of range. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah, yeah. So it was a crested tit we saw. Okay, yeah.
And blue and cold tits. Yes. Did we see red squirrels? I think... You might have seen one. I don't think I saw it. Maybe. I did see lots of red squirrels. Yeah, yeah. Oh, we saw a lot of deer. There were a lot of those massive deer. There was a massive deer. Yeah, yeah. They were standing menacingly by the side of the road. Yeah, yeah. Well, that was quite unnerving because there was just so many of them. Yeah.
Almost kind of reminded me of like a zombie film, except instead of zombies, it was deer. Yes. Yeah. Yes, they look... Looked like they wanted to jump in front of your car Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, but mercifully they didn't And they gave us lovely views The big red deer stags on the road back Yeah, yeah, yeah To Granton after we'd been on our ferry Yeah, yeah, yeah, And briefly set foot on Lewis and Harris.
Turning around And sailing straight back Yeah But it was on the way back You saw most of the dolphins, I think they follow the boat Don't they They follow Does the fish not get churned up or something Yeah the fish get confused And knocked out As the boat Speeds past And the dolphins, Will take advantage of that And they will Gobble up The stunned and wounded fish I'll see you next time. And they were spectacular, just diving in and out of the grain of water.
Really something, something beautiful. Yeah. Absolutely beautiful. And we stayed in Ullapool that evening for the evening, didn't we? Yeah. And then, yeah, drove back through the highlands in the darkness. Yeah. Round, and it's quite a long way from Ullapool to Branson. Oh, it is, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Are any of the records that we've just been talking about, are any of them, like, sensitive? I don't think so. I don't think they are.
I don't know. I think we should edit out the name of the place. What? The one with the birch trees between the railway, between the two railways. Justice's name. The one that's...
That's near uh that's that's well that was near that barbecue wasn't it yes because some fool was having an open fire some of the biggest fires in british history have been in recent years in the northwest of scotland yes yeah including in 2023 when i was up there, and it's very sad so yeah don't have uh don't have open barbecues no in the dry grass in the scottish island any time of year other than the middle of the winter when it's soaking wet and snowing well they're not going to be
able to have a barbecue now are they yeah it's not going to work is it well they don't have a barbecue out on the hills in the island because bad things happen, People like us Nosy bird watchers And ladybird spotters Might call the fire brigade on you. Is there anything else you want to talk about regarding that trip at all? Well, should we talk a little bit about this trip we're on now? Yeah, let's do it. So where are we now, Rachel? We're a long way from north-western Scotland.
We're a very long way from north-western Scotland. We're a long way from the Cairngorms too. Yeah, we're in Hunstanton. We're in a mobile home park called Manor Park. We're in a static caravan. And it took me a while to find my way back after when I got to the Manor Park. But I got there in the end. So, yeah. So, we're living our best Adam Park to a virtual life, aren't we? I was saying so. In a caravan in Norfolk. I was saying so. Yeah. It was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. And today, we...
It's late December, by the way. Yeah. Today we went and what's the name of the... So we walked from Constanton to Holmjean's National Nature Reserve Yeah And on the way, despite it being December. Rachel managed to find not one but two species of ladybird Including one that I think may have been a new one on me What, pine ladybird? Don't say it like that I'm not a ladybird pass I'm sure you found, Maybe we saw them in Scotland I think that they're quite common I'd have to
check my note Actually, have you got the camera with you? Did you just take a picture of your phone? I think I only took pictures I can show you them on my phone Okay. So today, we were walking through the dunes of North Norfolk. Yeah, so there were these little, not quite classically ladybird shows to my eyes. They were longer than you classic ladybird. Yes, you wanted to see the photos of the pine ladybird. I don't know how well this is going to translate on a podcast.
Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't another species buried in with it. Because I did kind of wonder whether there was not another species along with them because I couldn't really see them that well and because they were buried in their little pine leaves, weren't they? Yes, they were. So there's your pine ladybird. Oh, that's definitely a pine ladybird. I'm showing Rachel a photo of a ladybird nestled in between the leaves. Yeah Of a Scots pine Yeah.
Growing in Holm dunes Yeah And there's one of it Walking along the stem Yeah that's definitely Pine lady And that was Yeah Remarkable The sort of long Flattened Looking, Well they're quite Rounded Ladyfish Yeah but they're quite They're quite They're an odd They're an odd fish They are an odd fish that's a good way of putting it.
That's a good way of putting it an odd fish, and we saw female winter moths didn't we yeah we did so we think they're winter moths, they're wingless yeah and they were hanging out on fence posts and if I've got this ID wrong yeah my girlfriend Emma's never going to forgive me so let's check that i'm right okay before we put this out and you can uh i'll say december moth all right yeah over it you can record me saying december moth just in case okay yeah,
yeah and lots of starfish including one with no less than 12 arms also there was that white moth that was on that bit of grass yes you took a photo of it you took a photo of it yes there There were a couple of micros on the wing as well. And our old... Because we came back in the darkness. And our old friend, the seven spot. Our old friend, the seven spot. He was very pretty. Yeah. Hibernating until we disturbed him. Yeah.
But they can get back to sleep, can't they? They can. They can, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we also got to see what a whelk looks like when it's alive. Mmm. And... We also saw lots and lots of washed up starfish, didn't we? They must have come from Storm Darra. They must have been casualties of Storm Darra. It was a bit of an upsetting sight seeing so many of them dead, wasn't it? It was sad, but it was a bounty for the gulls because the gulls were loving
that ready supply of starfish. Well, there was that herring gull that we saw. Well, I saw a herring gull that was just waddling along with a fish in its beak. Yeah. Either a fish or a massive starfish. I don't know what. Yes, and these were probably casualties of Storm Darragh. And there was a 12-armed starfish, wasn't there? Yeah. It was particularly fascinating and beautiful. But was it dead? We couldn't tell. We couldn't tell.
We put it back in the water anyway. Yeah, yeah. and took its photo. So it lives on in our hearts. Okay. I think, have you still got your sea urchin there? I think it's in the... Oh, yeah, we found some sea urchin shells, didn't we? Some empty sea urchins. Yeah. So it really was, there's a lot of wealth, a wealth of life befuddled and washed up by Storm Darra. And there were gulls, including a glaucous gull, Which is something of a rarity,
Nibbling on those And we saw the shorelocks as well Didn't we? Yeah, Yeah, what was your bird highlight of the day, Rachel? I would say probably the Glaucus gull because, oh, and the fulmar. Yes. Because I couldn't really see the other ones quite all that clearly, but I did like the fulmar and I did like the Glaucus gull. I thought he was pretty cool. Yeah.
Yeah, the fulmars are quite an interesting bird. I've been quite fascinated by the fact that they squirt out this fish sauce when they're threatened, and it can do a fair bit of damage, apparently, because they squirt it out through their nose. And it congeals, and it dries. Yeah. And so if you're a human and you get squirted with it, it's very, very unpleasant. But if you're something like a predator, like a herring gull...
That's it. it could be really serious that's it apparently and apparently it doesn't it doesn't wash off with water and and if you get it on your clothes it's the smell sticks around for years so it's yeah so it's a super effective bird defense and also also they with their nose their their special nostrils they actually um they can desalinate seawater yes and if they if they're really desperate if their chicks are really desperate they can feed this fish sauce stuff to their chicks and
that yeah i hadn't heard that before that's what that's what it said in that in the wildlife the wildlife trust website was talking about it what what a clever bird what's a clever bird and they and they and the way that they fly is quite you know they're. The stiff wig. Yeah. They're very, it's like, it's not almost like a penguin, isn't it? It's very different. It's very different. It's almost like a penguin. It's not. So they're not related to seagulls, to gulls at all. No.
They're their own thing, aren't they? Well, they look quite, they look, if you see it in the sky, I think you think it was a seagull, but it's clearly. It's a shoe water in a gull wraparound, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
And they live on the cliffs at Hunstanton Yeah I believe all year round Apparently there's loads of these ones The special noses And they call it tube noses Yeah Yeah Yeah, Yes Around the world And four miles nest on the beautiful chalk and sandstone cliffs The two coloured red and white cliffs at Hunstanton It's said that they're quite related to petrels That sounds very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I quite like petrels.
I've seen pictures of them. Ah, I've only seen storm petrels once, and that was from a whale-watching boat when I was in Spain. I've had no luck with them in Britain. They're one of my British bogey birds. Oh, okay, yeah. So there aren't many regular British breeding species that I've never seen in the UK, and one of them is Storm Petrol. Storm Petrol. You were saying about the Montague Tarragher. Another is Montague Tarragher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And...
To be fair to you, I disgracefully only ticked lesser spotted woodpecker a couple of years ago. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. But I do like storm petalors. They are beautiful. They're like, almost like little house mowers. And there's something called a Manx Shearwater, isn't there? Yes. That's a similar kind of thing. Is it a similar kind of deal? Yes. It's a more similar bird to the Fulmar than to the petalors. Oh, right, yeah, yeah. Visually.
It's got black upper parts and white upper parts. Right, yeah. Okay, yeah. And it also flies on stiff wings. Skimming the waves. Okay. You'll see them fishing it out at sea during the day. Okay, yeah. And then apparently they come to their nests at night and make the most remarkable noises. Remarkable noises? Like possessed collared doves is how I'd describe it. Collared doves are a bit of an odd, again, a bit of an odd fish, aren't they? They are an odd fish.
But they're not quite a possessed, possessed fish. If you're possessed collared doves, it's the way I can describe Manxshire water's noises at night. That does sound a little bit alarming. It is. Yeah. It is when you're in a tent and the winds blow. Do they also have like, their wings are supposed to be quite strange, aren't they? Their wings are very stiff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they have that ability to glide, to shear through the air, which is something,
it's a way for seabirds, because obviously over the sea there are no thermals. Yeah, yeah. So it's a way that seabirds have evolved to glide essentially over the wave. Okay. Whilst using very little energy. That makes sense, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah so we saw marsh harriers today didn't we yeah we did yeah over over home and plenty of common herring gals yeah or the regular gals lots of oyster catches yes little sandlings running yeah yeah yeah yeah so it's been a special day and it's a
fantastic place here on the North Norfolk coast. Have you seen a blue sit? Yeah. I've seen a blue sit. I haven't seen it. Okay, yeah. And you saw a robin as well. I've seen a robin. We've seen plenty of robins. Saw a blackbird. Saw a mallard. Mallard's wigeon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We saw a big flock of wigeon. I saw... Holm and teal. Yeah. Well, we didn't see a red shank, didn't we? I saw a few red shanks. Yeah, I saw one as well. The Curlews were also down on the beach.
I missed that. And a lonely bar-tailed godwit. So there was a bird that had a really long beak. I didn't think it was a Curlews, though. I thought I was just, like, seeing things. Curlews have very long, down-curved beaks. And there were several Curlews on the beach. We could hear them when we stepped outside last night. We could hear Curlews and pink-footed geese. Yes. Flying overhead Okay. So it's been a good day so far, and we've got another two.
Yeah. So we'll keep you posted. We might record another episode, mightn't we? Yeah, that'll be good. And we might discuss something a bit closer to what I've been doing now, mightn't we? We might talk about how to welcome some inverts into your urban gardens, particularly how to help wildlife, particularly invertebrates, through the winter in your garden. That would be quite cool. Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, that would be awesome.
Nice. Yeah, so thank you very much. No, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me, Rachel. It's an honour to be on your podcast. We've been friends for some time, haven't we? Yeah, we've never done this before. We've never done that. I've never been on the podcast before. I don't think I've ever been on a podcast before. Yeah. And I'm very grateful to Rachel for letting me on. And I'm a big fan of Hidden Wings and Bloodlust. Yeah, yeah. And so it's really good to be here.
It's always nice to have like regular listeners on the show just to talk about their finds. Brilliant. Yeah. So yeah, thank you very much, Rachel. Rachel and I will from Caravan and Sunny Hunt Stanton sign off. Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks a lot for listening and happy ladybirding.