Hey Humans has going susan ruth here. Yeah. This episode really stoked out. I say that every time, and every time I'm just blown away by the cool people I get to talk to. In this episode, I I speak with Zach Sc, he is the founder of Marley Mu. And within Marley Mu, he also has other programs positive change prison program, miracle months, bark and books, 22 and 22, which is the work he does to bring awareness to Veteran Suicide. He works with 1 last treats. It's another
organization. So, Zach of Marley mu. He's rescued over 3000 dogs, all over the world. K. What an exceptional human being he he said something during our during our conversation. He said, that he was the exception to the rule because as an addicts, recovering addicts and alcoholic, he almost died. He was an end stage liver failure.
His dog Marley helped bring him back to life, you know, by loving him unconditionally and the way only dogs can do And so he now has a fully functioning liver after quitting, you know, drinking and drug and and getting getting his body back into shape, and Marley was there with him every step of the way, and in gratitude for that, he created this foundation Marley months. And now he... It's hard to explain. I mean, he is
the exceptional rule. Yes. Because medically, he's his body did something that just doesn't happen. Livers don't just come back from from that traumatic of a, an event and stage liver failure. And, yet exception to the rule. And Zach is the exceptional rule in many cases because he... His programs center around what society would deem un unbelievable. As far as human beings and animals, he I mean, I don't know. I'm I'm really... I'm kind
of at a lost words. I'm gonna let the episode speak for itself, but we reference a lot of things in this episode, and there are links on hay human podcast dot com for all of the foundations and all the different programs that, Zach, whether he works with them externally or if they're within his own foundation. So that's on the hay human podcast dot com. Also, please subscribe on itunes Awesome if you subscribe. It helps get the word out. And other than that, I think that's that's enough
business. Let's get to it. Okay. Here we go. I've been following on Instagram for quite a while. I I can hey. Remember how I first learned of all the stuff you do. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. I I'm... I'm putting a lot more effort in the I instagram these days because we wrote the Facebook freight train for as long as we could and we were getting... We just had so much success on Facebook and our instagram account got hacked somehow. We have, like, I think we have, like,
7 or 8000 fans. This is probably your a half ago. And so we had to start up another 1, and and I just kinda of ignored it. I ignored it, but I didn't like, you know, it was just so much effort. I gotta operate most of these things that I I have some help from more option coordinator, but, you know, we're we're doing, you know, 10 posts today and we do it it's just exhausting. It's a lot of stuff, especially if you kind of being open and trying
to be original. If only dogs had thumbs, they could do it for you. When I got pretty funny dogs, like, if we've done some like, from Balloons perspective or from Hitch perspective, I should do that more often... Because they deserve personalities, like, I know their personality pretty well, and they they should have more There should be more banter. Yeah. Hoo is the 1 that doesn't have a tongue. Right? Yeah. Yeah. This is... I have a hoo I a hoo doll. Here. I just dropped off each of my
dad's house. But this is a. Nice. Dean anatomical cracked. If you open its mouth? It doesn't have any balls. Oh. That that part's correct. And you can open up the mouth, But it's from shelter pubs dot com. Alright. Check this this is... Can you see balloon? Oh. 0, there's a balloon. Yeah. It's a balloon that looks just like a blue then his tongue. See how it hangs out here. Yeah. Exactly like what it does with his tongue. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. His tongue. Where did Bull come from?
Believe came from the Mojave air shelter. Okay. Which is a area of Obscure animal shelter, on the Body Airport in Current County, which is the middle of Nowhere. And he bit and I'm a patrol officer and he bit, another person after he got out. So he kind of multiple difficult. Yeah. That's kind of your specialty though. Right? Is una adaptable dogs? Yeah. So bull, Brazilian mask and then this is Maggie. An Italian Mas. And she comes from from El dad el Guard. I'm not unsure if you know what
he. He's up. Pretty famous dog trap. I don't know who that is. What do you mean by dog trap? He goes and catches his dogs that are that are, like, on the run that don't know how to be dogs on man that are have been Some of them are feral, some of them are are just, kind of on the land and we're in trouble or sick where Yeah. Some of them are are imprisoned in different places. Some of them
all kinds of different stories. Some of them are just really scared when they need they they're they've experienced a fight fight flight scenario and the plea they've flown, they they are in full shutdown, you know, freight mode. Yeah. They're just like, sc, you know, to stay alive and he goes out and drops something and set them to rescues like us. Oh so I had to tell you So clearly, I I've been following your work for a long time, and I think it's incredible, but
you... There was there was a video that you posted And when I heard this, I record a little snippet I'll play it for you. When I heard this, I was like, oh, I got to have him hey, human because the whole point of a human. I'm trying to connect people because I... You... Like, I'm I'm gonna play the thing first. And you said... For a 3 legged. That's pretty impressive. And show that any of these dogs can do anything. Them them labels he's a pickle. He's black. He's got 3 legs.
Really mean nothing any of us are capable of anything at any time. And, we stereotype. Let me judge. Let mean pre judge. We're doing ourselves at a disservice. Amen. I mean, I heard that Was, like, oh, my god. Exactly. Yep. I wanna be... You know, I really I really hope to, take the opportunity to post and speak for my heart more often. You know, I'm a I'm a introvert. So I I really don't like being on camera. Don't like taking videos.
I do it because I have to, I went to 1 health to make this organization success. So it's just like being in in meetings, you know, Of and I'm an addict alcoholic and recovery and my my meetings. I still get nervous every time I share. Still get nervous when or need people. So a lot of times I don't remember saying those things. It's it's what I feel, and it's it's inside of me.
But, you know, sometimes I'll get in a comfortable kind of groove, and I I can speak, stream of consciousness and freely in and it all makes sense. So just... I know your story because I... You know, I've been following it. But just further people listening who haven't heard the story in a nutshell throw it at it. Well, if you heard do you wanna talk about that statement anymore. I mean there's a lot. I do. I do because I think it speaks to that
statement. I mean, you you were in a a place where you almost died and felt pretty worthless. You you've said in the past. And I think pretty much if you throw a rock at humanity right now. You're gonna hit a person that feels that way, You know? And we just... We spend all this time making each other feel shitty and you know what I mean? If it's, like, through you're giving all this love to these beautiful animals who, like for me, my dog passed away in January.
Still horrible, but it is what it is, and he taught me so much about love. And what it means to really love. I'm unconditionally purely. Yeah. I I thought it was a a lot of interesting you brought that up because it... I I have to remind myself of it every day. Think we kind of live in a culture that spent so much time reminding us that we're supposed to hate 1 another that we're supposed to not get 1 1 another. And that we're supposed to think
certain things of 1 another. And, you know, I remember being a kid, that my dad always told me the story and I came I came over practice, and and I told my dad about this kid. Was on our team, and he was playing third. And he basically stole my position. And he's was playing third base. I know Was playing left field. And... But all I kept talking about was is how good this kid was and how great he was gonna make our team. And then my dad didn't see until Than the weekend that this kid was black.
So he always telling me that story because, you know, I was very competitive kid, and you know, I cared greatly about sports and about how I was doing, but in that instance, I didn't give a shit what color this kid was or though you're taking my position because I was... I kept thinking about how because we live from Most beach is a very small city. So we got... We had a very competitive baseball team.
And if if we have, like, that 1 little, you know, factor, the x factor we could go really far, which we ended up doing. And and he said as reminds me of that story, and that's how I felt playing sports I've ever felony any division, I've ever following in pre judge people. I just people were people. And as I've gotten older and as we've we've become part of, as I become a part of mainstream culture, and I'm privy on these things. It's it's really depressing.
You know, we're we're constantly... There's constantly a wise driven between us. And, I see it more than anything in what we've done to the pickle And and pit bulls are... I mean, I cannot believe and it progressive society, like Colorado for Gran. They a dog simply because of is muscular structure, and a bunch of fear that we are going to outlaw, a dog also that we basically created this is something that human beings over 1000 percent
responsible before. It's not the dog 12. It's not it's not It is 1000 percent human beings, humankind, human powerful for creating for per for training for breathing, you know, these dogs, and and also, we've created, like a scape glove myth about the dogs so that we don't have to take responsibility for it. It's so much easier to come up with the with escape then actually be responsible for what we've done in that that that knee jerk kind of a immature reaction is
they are pit bulls. They are this way. They are some sort of fixed concrete way that's they you... They can't be fixed. There's no hope. You know, they take the hope out of it. They take the the love out of it. And and I... And we have liberal hippie literally liberal hippie reverting back to, like, fascist, racism. It's bog my mind. Yeah. I just it's I can't process that. It's weird to think that, you know, there are people that breed violence in a dog, and the dog does something based on what
human does. It's like the gun thing or people say, oh, well, Guns don't kill people people kill people. Will people train the pip to be fighters, but I've meant lovely pip that are sweet as we can be. People are dick. Pip have a... Just like any dog has an ability, you know, German shepherd are protection dogs and then cattle dogs can herd Cattle and sheep dogs hurt sheep and p, protect herd and and massive guard fences and and hip
bull's flight. Mean, that's what we... That's what human beings created couples to do is be good at fighting. And amongst a lot of other things. But they have that ability in then... What it doesn't mean that that's their default frequency pip and that's what That's where we have to understand dog psychology. It's when we have to take the time
to understand dogs psychology. We take a lot of time to understand, you know, in child in in human psychology, take, but we then just answer more files and apply all of those ideals to dogs, and we don't even give them the respect to that, we treat them like children, like mentally deficient children, where we just come at them with a high pitched voice and, you know, a really sympathetic tone, which does nothing but ex zoo weakness, which is not something dogs respond well
too. So just the whole way we approach dogs, I think in general is is is inaccurate. Is is is unhealthy. But when you... When when a person goes out an 11 says, something like that. Some people hear this guy is telling me not to let my dog. That's not at all I'm saying. I'm just... I... I'm trying to have people better understand their dogs so that they can love them better. And that's so they can take their
people to a dog park. And so that they can take their pickle, let you know, on the strand for a walk, and they'll have to be so tense and not have to be so so worried and nervous fear controls everything in this world so much of this will not everything. We we combat it with love, but not often enough. And and right now, we're in a period of time where fear is is unfortunately plaguing our society in in aspects, including how we get with dogs.
You know, and then printed pip in particular, you know, there's always been a scape going. And you throughout the humankind, there's always been scape. You know, in, like, the the eighties it was a the do main, and then it was the Ra. You know, those were the terrible bad dogs. Right? And then now it's good football. Yeah. So who knows, but it'll be there. You know. It'll be the Cane Cor in in 20 20 years ago. Did people try to outlaw Rot?
Did they do that? I didn't think that that went that far with Rot? Oh, I don't know. I just know I just remember I I remember viewing Rot And don't... That's the bad dog. Hell House. Very bad dogs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I have... Like, Marley is a wrong 1 pit. I have notch as a pit bull hex bull. Bag is a cane course so. But believe as AII have all these bad dogs. And they all get along. Right?? And they all get along just fine. Yeah. They're all good. You're the alpha. You're their alpha.
Right? You're the lead dog. I mean, sure a circuit Great. You know, they're there there's a degree for... They have to listen me, and and I have to maintain, do my best to maintain calm confidence, you know, or else they're, you know, they're they're gonna take matters into their own hands and and, Jo you for position and and orient themselves accordingly,
if I don't want that to happen. And if I don't want the natural course of things to play out with dogs, which is which can be sometimes if they're having some sort of they're trying to establish their dominance. Then, yeah. I mean, I I need to that's why walking dogs is so powerful. Walking dogs is. It's such a... It can be a meditation every time you do it If you take time to center yourself think about where you are and adjust yourself accordingly.
Because if you go and walk and you and your pissed irritable discontent, hungry, angry, whatever, it will it will chat through the lease, and you're you're vibe that you're giving enough is gonna affect the dog and you're gonna have a terrible time. You know, notch, for instance is a a very powerful he's a hundred someone pound that that we got from a pointing situation in. He... If I'm not centered, then he's just gonna pull the whole time. He's gonna go after chip wrong gonna do whatever.
But if I'm center, he sits right on my side and I dropped the leash, and he's does not leave my side and and we crews. And I don't have to hold the leash. But the the difference is is so pal. It's it's funny. And Caesar you always thought about that. Something that... The other thing that people like think is some sort of like, who. So We've got, you know, bullshit jumbo, but it really is true view. If there's proper intention behind your commands what
you're trying to accomplish rather than anger. Yeah. You Mike Mike, my dog use a chihuahua Docks Jack Russell mix, and he was a rescue and came out of a weird situation, and I got him when he was got 7 months old. And it's funny. I had him for, you know, 10 years, and he was with me constant companion with me. And Sure. I mean, we went on road trips. We flew together. We went everywhere. He went with me every every everything. And people would always say, oh, he's so
mellow. He's so chill. I'm like, ask that mellow and Chill, You know, dogs will be, like their people. If you're drugs. Yeah I'm drag him real good. So the people you were you were drawn to because they're the sort of the throw away dog everyone's. Yeah. It was kind of a, you know, Marley my my dog was a... Is a pickle. He's a rot pip and. He was my first... Like, he in tug was 1 my 2 original dogs. You look at my dad's house and like, the retiree.
My dad's not retired yet, but that's where the the retired dogs gonna go to drive and drink wine and watch Tv. And, yeah. There's was just something so special about that dog. And and he wasn't malicious at all, But wherever Taking people with flinch and then pulled their kids up and. You know. But and even what happened when I started adding dogs my pack was Marley...
If there was any sort of per participation, and any me sort of with the energy, you know, flare like this, he would react and bring it back down blow. He wouldn't fight. He would, I remember watching it barrel into 2 dogs that were fighting 2 big dogs. And, yes. So there'd be this, you know 2 dogs or me sniffing each other out, and there'd be something that would set them off. And Marley would blog Russian. And he basically hon each dog until they got back in
line and we're were mellow. Wow. And I just... I love that about him and he was just that the cons peace He just wanted things to be mellow and chill, and he's just so good with kids and so good with people. And and, yeah. I mean, there there are Marley is your quintessential American chelsea dog. He looks like 75 percent of the dogs in the shelter. He's a short haired multi color pit, you, 75 80 pounds. And, you, as heaviest is probably 90. But
Yeah. You know and and and people don't take a chance on those dogs, you know? And and yeah. Even more so in recovery, you know, doc dogs are a lot shelter dogs are a lot like people in recovery. You know, they've kind of been cast aside. They're at a at a particular stage of hopelessness, and they need something very, very special to to get them out of it. And and then they also need rules, boundary limitations, affection, and you know, exercise and guidance, you know all
this... All the things, shelter dogs need, in order to thrive as dogs as as companions has the same things that addicts and alcoholic people in recovery need You know. So that's why I related so much to him. We kinda just grew together. And and but just... I and like you said about your dog taught me so much about about unconditional love, and and just being cool with things. I... You know, I have a, I had a long memory when it came to keeping some resentment and
being pitiful. I I felt pitiful often. I told sorry for myself. You know, because I felt sorry that I hated myself so much, and III saw my dogs and my dogs. 100 percent didn't have any myself. And... Issues. Yeah. You look fall in the morning, be, yeah just a pit what is the black pit. Mister the black pitt, you know, not I, I had the deck act against me. Know, he call for any reasons why the day should suck. He was every day was gonna be red, and or he was gonna map whatever.
You know, Either way, was his solid day. But, you know, if he convinced me to to take him on go do some time then he done an extra special day and yeah. I know. You just told me... And you told me Love myself, because I had very difficult time doing that. I don't know. If you wanna segue when into my story. I can start talking about that. Yeah. I feel like I talked too much. No. It's great. That's the whole point of a podcast. Conversation. Yeah. I suppose So I just know why
don't wanna dominate it. I I would like you to dominate it. So, yeah, I got diagnosed with with end stage liver disease and in the late winter early spring of 2008. So my liver failed, and well, a lot of things started happening to me, my started started to get real big. Started to bleed out of both ends, started to turn yellow, and I didn't stop drinking. I started I drank more as matter fact. And I just ignored it as long as possible until.
I got having get checked in into the hospital for long term care because I was you know, I was dying liver failure. G... Very reverse. You said that you could see yourself getting like that where you just throw us stage like, well, I'm already here. Might as well just kinda keep going? Alright. You know what I mean? I was I just... Yeah. Yeah. Didn't care face it. Well, I couldn't face it. I went to the hospital. Alright. Sorry. Went to the doctor they taken blood, and my doctor sent to me
he sent me down. He looks at my and my my blood test is me. It looks like all the main immunization. You need to go to the hospital. And I know what you talking about? You're very sick, and you need to go to hospital. And as just looked at him and I like, You know, Maybe I was just... Because... I have real drunk last night. Maybe that's why. Like, you sure that I pretty hard. No. These are blood blood tests. Not something that would've have been from, you
know, 1 drone. You're... Every 1 of your numbers is elevated. And, you're failure At. And I got better and going out to my dad, and and I'd be using the car. I told them, you know, just gonna come back on on the extended Pm. And and, you, they she'll only drink with with dinner. I didn't call anything about my liver. I like I said something about my kidneys. I don't know. I don't remember. But I... I couldn't face it. I just had this overwhelming fear of on facing life sober.
And that's what happened when you're physically addicted. I gone through of withdrawals going before, and it's the worst thing you can imagine. So once you've gotta taste the physical withdraws from novel, you just don't wanna ever do it again. And I couldn't imagine, you know, there was just no... Had no I get any. I had... I could not be myself without alcohol. There was just no b. Without alcohol the drugs, You know, III didn't know how to be...
I hadn't been myself in so long. It was just whatever I thought that the intense fear start to bubble up. I I drank. Not the only thing that kept it suppressed, you know, if I didn't drink then then it got to surface. And and and that was a base... Basically, like, operating at level of panic attack or all times I handle that. Yeah. So yeah. I went to the hospital. They kept me there for almost 2 months. A sicker and I got addicted to penny medicine
the hospital. And then finally, my family just broke out of hospital, and I got a... Like, they got me an appointment at Cedar Sinai, which is 1 of the 7 hospitals that does Liver transplant. I got an interview with Comprehensive Transplant program, doctor Tran Tran, then she admitted me to the program.
Which basically exists to keep people who are in liver failure alive, through different you know, through check ups through, medication management, through other means by which because mostly people with hepatitis c is a viral condition. Acute alcoholic hepatitis is different. And and need just she she just said, go home and and wait, you know, stay close to an emergency room and and try to get your 6 months sober because you need to deliver for transplant. Only thing that's gonna help you. So I
was gonna save your life. I think I had a 85 percent chance dying within 30 days. We're not a liver transplant. So I mean, I was I'm morally ill. Mh. And then I... You know, I I went home and that were terrible. I had to go through a pay withdrawal. And I went to hospital bunch times I I'm was dope sick, and it was all fucking awful thing. Were you not drinking at that place? No. No. I was just better. I couldn't get bed. I was just shitting myself and vomiting blood and it was terrible. And,
yeah. I started to get a little bit better. I started to walk my dogs. I 1 day, finally, my dogs just every morning look at me, lane. Whatever we gotta do today, you know, is the your... By the way, the sexiest thing on the planet. You look at me mean, hear the great the greene here's just so good. And I'm looking at like don't look at me. You know, don't look at me, you know, I'm terrible I'm waffle. I just
have this deep seated itself loading. I'm so pitiful and like, constant constant simple and like... And yeah know, I finally kinda bought just gave in and started walking my dogs and started journal and started going to meetings all the time. Yeah. I had my first... How all time being in the hospital, which was terrific. You know I gave us That was the first thing you gave us some hope. And yeah. Then, I I drank again, like, a
year of month that forgot hospital. I just started to get a little bit better. And, yeah. I don't know what It was. I wasn't sleeping, and I was still really sick. I'm was still yellow and I just shouldn't... I couldn't handle it. You know, I I couldn't... I... People looked at me funny because the way I loved, and I wasn't sleeping, and I didn't know how to be me, and I was scared of people, places and things, and I I just didn't know how to to how
to do it. So I drank again I had to tell my I my dad got back from Brazil. He was going for 2 days. I found back the spirit set of keys in the truck, drove and guy I remember a bottom of the line, and then I blacked out, which I don't ever do, but if I can drink a lot out on blackout out. Yeah. Then I woke up 2 days later. And there was mar wine everywhere. I don't know how I got it.
And he was gonna be there in, like, 4 hours and I had to go walk over somebody got back, and I I told her him I said we gotta go to hospital. And he said, what do you mean? And I said, we got to the hospital. I drank again, and he looked up at me, and he didn't believe me He just was, like, you know, away left. And I said we have to go all, I took my glasses on. I had my glasses on. And I took my glasses off and he could see Gather my eyes were.
And so he knew right then, and and he just started crying, and he just said, you killed herself. He killed herself. He he killed herself. He just got repeating. And and then he was like fuck you. Not taking you that hospital. He was like, fuck you. You wanted to kill yourself. Kill yourself. Yep. And that was the last time I day.
Wow. And and and then I kinda of just became obsessed with trying to get better when obsessed with exercising, and and just walking, I couldn't exercise where I could just walk and then walking turned into running and running turned into exercising, and just trying to eat right and just trying to survive, you know? And then I... My numbers is starting to get slightly better, and I became healthy enough to not need a liver transplant anymore.
So, now I'm still a transplant patient and once you're in stage once you've been that sick. Once windshield whoever's that call them Because you're always a transplant patient. Because usually, you you die or you transplant. Yeah. So, you, the exception tool. So, yeah. That's where I stand now is on the on the liver patient in good standing. Anything happens to me if I get sick I'm I'm good standing to receive help and all those work. Wow. That's a hell of a story, man.
Yeah. You must feel like a completely different person that has this other person in the, you know? Gonna be you cut out there for. Oh, I've said to feel like you know, you're this other person now, but you have that person still in you. It's always in you'll always in you. It's always a part of you. But Yeah. You know, that it's quell and this Yeah. It keeps me relatable. It's 1 thing because I work so many alcoholic and drug addicts that it that that that is definitely always at the surface.
You know, It's always just beneath the surface. Being able to relate to those feelings, and and that makes it a lot easier to work with people who are in recovery when when you can relate to that feeling. And you bring the dogs in to help people... I I know you do the prison stuff now and, did you work... So talk about that a little bit, because that's awesome as well. Yeah. We have a, an inmate training and, like, rehabilitation program. It's rehab to the dogs rehab to the humans.
So explain that. What that means exactly. We have 10 dogs living at the California City, pen and cal. Ted dogs with 26 inmates. The dogs live there in the pod, pod b 3. And these are all silent criminals. Who been most of them have been in prison for a very long time. And all of them will get out of prison. So they're all gonna need jobs eventually. And so we're trying to them get jobs when they get out in the, you know, head services industry, whether that's the shelter or doggy Daycare or,
a rescue, whatever walking dogs. People tend out to mind, and people have found any records when dealing with dogs. Or you know, we're we're more forgiving group of people. And the dogs that we give them? Are there because they're not well. I got there because they're good. They're there because they have the she. So the dog is in the humans new late with could both be little fucked up. And which is great and the guys love it.
I mean, we have it's really important because I identify as matt and they'll alcoholic where There and a lot of the guys are there because of their own diseases and that's pretty powerful. And the guys are all mixed in with a race wise, which is really, really special. Most these guys don't ever interact with men of other races, and they do program and their brothers in our program, which is special watch. Everybody's on the same page. Everybody's on the same level, and
help on another. And we have our issues, you know, there's personalities know, he got 26 felons. And there's 4 trainers are 4 of us, Kim and Leah and Lisa, and Sam has been helping us out too. So we all go way every Tuesday. And He's spent many hours there training from the men have homework they gotta do their thing and it's just... Great. And the dogs stay there all the time.
Yep. They live there. Wow. And they're there for 14 weeks the 4 team week long program, Then the dogs go through Canine good citizen certification, So which is a very difficult test. 2 inmates take the daughter through the test 5 5 points each. It's a 10 point test. And yeah. It's awesome. It's congratulations Like the best thing Ever is the coolest thing to be part of. You've been to, like, I agree there been doing like a guy dog, graduation where there's bunch of blind people on
stage getting their their dogs. It's just kinda like that. It's depressing them because the guys who leave the dogs that. Like, we take the talks with us. Oh, not. I mean, brutal, do you give them prepared for that? Oh, I mean, no. You know, I don't know how you did. I would break my hard. I mean jeez. It was tough. And then we take 2 weeks off, and then we go back in with another set. We started... We start out with demo dogs. And then we bring in the... They're all
shelter dogs. They're all dogs that come from. Our shelters nearby. Already city shelter all the bakersfield. Do you have to pardon in the pun vet the prisoners so that, you know that they aren't animal users. Yes. Like Can't be animal users and they can't be raped to, which actually they can't eat, like, women abusers, which kind of cut down a lot of the people that we can draw from. I mean, people at first, people were like, well, they're not they're not dangerous criminals. Are
they? And they're all almost all of them are requiring criminals but they're they're great. They're great. I mean, a lot of them are proud they've been in there. Since there were 17 for being knuckle heads. And they've trying to mature a prison, and they're trying to find an identity. And they punching it straws about anything to give them positive, like, nourishment like, nourishment and and our program does that. But. Need to wash them grab. Know. Yeah. K. Dog is love.
Yeah But what was the to get you in the the... Doing the prison thing, that it just was that a natural from the rehab thing, a natural segue? I always wanna do it. I really always wanna 1 of my best friends Robbie was in incarcerated for for 12 years. And he when he got out, he out that gone from me he operates this really cool rescue called Free to Live and sanctuary in Oklahoma City. And I fucking love that guy. And it's just
so good. What's happened to him and he's he's the director of of the rescue, you know, And, like, It was, like, 3 years after after getting out of prison. He... He'd worked his way up, you, become that, and he's a line criminal and he's from my neighborhood from near where I grew up, and, you know, if we can do that. If if that something like I can happen with him, certainly, if we spend all this training these guys and and and we facilitate them when they get out.
Like, I could've have been any of those guys that are in there. I could any 1 of them. I... I've done plenty of things in my life. I can land me and kinda touch for a long time. And there's just no difference between us, and And I mean, that the... Whatever, there are differences I suppose, but they're negligible. Yeah and it's important. I mean, our prison system is he's a lot of work. It's so broken. Mh. It's so so broken. Yeah. So this is the way we can make a difference,
You know? This is a way that I can I'm learning a lot. I'm learning a tremendous amount going in there and and hanging out with those guys. Yeah. How do you... So where do you get your funds from? How do you do the fundraiser part? How can people They just throw money at you? Great. No. It's all we we do for great. I know You do. I know Youtube babe it's got a constant arm and a leg to to get food and they... I just we just started the prison.
I just finished up, my friend, Kristen has helped us put together a fundraiser for the prison program, and we need to basically raise at least a thousand dollars a week because the trainers are coming from Angeles. This is 2 hours away from them. All the supplies, all the food, all that... I mean, like, 10 dogs gone through poop bags. When the live inside a prison. So just the amount of poop bags we go through for 10 dogs, like, whatever 3 poops a day, 10 dogs, Wait. They came go outside, I
guess. They have to be... It's in the prison. Oh. Alright. So... But they have to use their crew bags outside. They don't have a Hoover scuba in the years there. Their poop bag. And I think it's just easier to to not have, like, an implement like that, like, a Super scoop or the actual tool. Yeah. Because it could be Uses a weapon. Sure. Soaking can poop. Yeah. 7 poop. That of our guys are has food. That's good.
Very well behaved. Yeah. They're they're incredibly respectful and they're great guys. You are grown to respect. Know, each and every world on them. So, yeah, We need help with that. We need help. We're trying we're trying to get into detached. We pen entry as well. And, you know, 40000 dollars it cost 40000 dollars a year inca, a man in California State prison. 40000 dollars a year. And it almost like, 75 percent of them will end up back in prison within 3
years. 75 percent. To spend... So 40000 dollars for them course of that guy's life, he's prison for 40 years or 30 years due math 30 times 40000. An astronomical amount of money. If we spend the money on just... You know, just... With just 1 guy doesn't re reaffirm. And just 1 guy doesn't return back to prison. Yeah. You know, That's that's worth the program like 10 times over. So I'm trying to to explain that math to people because these guys can get jobs with with the
the skills that we're getting them. And they're gonna... They're damn good trainers. They are becoming legitimately good trainers. They have really tough dogs they're going to everything from crane training to potty training to all kinds of obedience. I mean, those dogs are very well be very well trained when they get out Do you know it's so
amazing about that too? I feel like that because of the way dogs are, and here's the thing that's the miracle of a dog, gets me a little choked up is that you can get a dog who has been treated so horrific, so horribly and it just wants you to love it. You know, it's like, it forget. It knows, you know, that it's evidence it might be cage or whatever, but it just he wants is love. And so here are these people in prison who probably did not get love, let's be honest, you know, in a lot of ways
and probably feel pretty shitty about themselves. And then there's the weakness. Yeah. Yeah. To show that kind motion. Yeah. And then there's these dogs now that are, like, well, I'll love you. You know? Too amazing. Yeah That's great. And and it sets the stage for the whole pod is allowed to be compassionate. The whole group of guys are allowed to
be compassionate. And even with 1 another because you know, because they're being compassionate with the dogs because they're they're striving to give these. And they take it dead deadly seriously. They're not they're not fucking around and they're they're real. They they really mean it. I mean, some of them and some of them enjoy being challenged. Immensely. You know, they really... They want the tough dogs. They wanna challenge. They want, you
know, it's really neat. Yeah. I think there are a lot of very bright people in prison I mean, bright people tend to get bored easy, and then they get into trouble. And then prison the way the system works, unfortunately, as you know, I'm sure that it it's it's a money making. Now that prisons becoming privatized and, you know, what is the incentive to let people get out. First of all, and they don't treat mental illness. They don't treat addiction.
None of that stuff is really even dealt with on so many letters Yeah. The substance of abuse program is is pretty inadequate. And, vocational programs are pretty inadequate. From what I know. I don't know a lot. But I know about the substance abuse programs because because my sponsor goes in. Spent time in there. And and they're there. They're just... You know, it's not something that is really really focused on. They don't give them the tools and when they get out, know they have...
You know, they can go to meetings suppose, but, you know, it's intimidating coming bin. And and and all the things you have to comply with when you get out is very... It's... You know, it's a lot of stuff you gotta comply with. Some of them when they get out, they have mouths to disease. You know, babies they have to pay for, and they... It's hard for them to get a job. Yeah. They're gonna pay for these babies when they don't have a job. So they go back to doing what they know how to do.
Right. And some of them have been in prison so long that that's the life they know. So when they get out, they don't It's sort of like, in a weird way. It's very to probably in the way military people are who are, you know, you send them to war 10 years, various wars and then expect them to assimilate when they get back. It's and people's supposed. They learn a lot of a lot of bad shit learn how to how to do a lot of new cracks.
You know, They learn how to we the system, and they learn how to They learn a lot of new bad stuff. Yeah. We we just finished up up a 22 and 22 program, which is from the sixteenth to the fourth of July, June sixteenth to the fourth of July. Then we we rescued 22 dogs and 22 days bring attention to veterans suicide, 22 veterans committed commit suicide every day. And so we got veterans involved in in our rescues and my buddy Jewel Rocky who started this organization called 1 last treat. He's
maybe Cor. So he's in a navy, but he's basically a combat entrenched with the marines. And, yeah. So he he and I where it's on that together and and save bunch dogs and got veterans involved in transported, you'd veterans involved in being there. Part of the rescues and it was cool. Yeah. I followed out on Instagram too, but I wanted everybody to hear that. Simple cool. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. What is that around your neck? Is that is that from... What is that tibetan?
The necklace you're... You've got in your hand? This is actually from from Nic Raw from a buddy line who made it. But yeah. It's got it's got Eastern origins. It's just made out of volcanic rock. Call. Yeah. From Nic rock. Something grounding Yeah. I had does she 2 days. Why Sleep. I I had back surgery. Oh, and doesn't sleeping, and then I... We were in prison all day yesterday, and I really felt like,
off my game. There were a couple of guys that were really struggling, and it's kinda of my job to go. Speak with them pull aside, have talks to them and and get to the bottom of what what's happening in their mind. And I just felt like I wasn't being as genuine as I could it's been because I was so exhausted. Like, I was... There's sometimes remake eye contact with another man when you're trying to be
vulnerable. It's certainly when you're doing inside a prison with a man of the officer race who is not used to interacting with you. We you're not using to interacting with him. It's somebody that you love somebody that you care about, but... And you wanna have the right answers for him, but I also was in a position to I needed to be tough. This person was in trouble. You know, and I needed to be you, not enable him, and I I just... You know, I beat myself up a little bit from that 1.
But, yeah, there's a lot going on lot of responsibility and and, you know, sometimes they still feel like a kid who's trying to catch up Yeah. In the canvas life. Yeah. I know that feeling. So you need to figure out how to raise 50 grand a year per program. Right? Or per... Wait. Per inmate or per program? We need when like, to do the prison program, yeah. We need... We do it 3 times a year. 3 and a half times. So, yeah. We need 50000 dollars a year. Does it do?
Yeah. That's encompassing all the prisoners that take part in it. Yeah. That's to do just Cal city. So that's to do has to graduate. That's to save basically 30 dogs and probably a hundred of me. Is that hard when you go in to talk to the the shelters and say, look, this is what I'm doing. Are they pretty good about just saying, okay. Here you go. Here's Here's program? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They love it. That's good. Yeah. They don't want red tape you to death or anything.
No. No. Current County animal services like, outrageous supportive. I wouldn't be in any other city. I, the the love that we get from our shelter and and the the the support they give us is is, like, second to none. It's so different. Going to Los Angeles, trying to pull a dog. It takes, like, an hour and a half. I walk in, I don't have to... I mean, they give us free reign to to work because they trust us, to pull dogs to to help facilitate different
things. Send us pictures of different dogs. They're just... There are buddies and there are c rescuers and are people... I'd love to talk a little bit about the the dog meat trade that you go in and you help get by the truck literally truckload. These dogs are being taken to the most disturbing situations I understand culturally that that it's but it's pretty hard to have any kind of understanding. For... At least for me,
I file card. Lot a lot of torturing involved so god when they're killed for the meat right are usually killed I thought, you know, you're trying to do to course the drill their vein and cortisol as as much is possible. So you're str them or electro queuing them, that's how they die. Yeah they say and I think sent a buyer, and I think them electro. And that's other kill. Right? Front me. Right?
In the middle of a market, middle of downtown soul, plain is day with with dogg meat, you know, displayed and it came base tray there with case got all around and. Yeah. I would love to continue to be involved in that on. I don't know. I mean, we we are in that we don't accept dogs from soy dog foundation. You know, we go over a bit thailand a couple
times. I've been in the Korea, in the trenches, and then, that was definitely an experience but so we support sorry our foundation and we try to help them as much possible in pull dogs, and, yeah. It's a it's... The culture and the paradigm is gonna shift. It's just matter our time. We... It's been exposed, we keep shining a light down it's definitely. It's gonna change it's gonna happen within Korea, but I have in China. You know, China. It's not gonna happen because I'm brit for
some American terms in there thousands too. It's gonna have to happen from within. Yeah. Can you talk a minute about, 1 of your experiences when you were in Korea or when you were dealing with that? Or is it just Yeah. I mean, we... I was shocked to how easy it was my dog meat farms and how easy it was to play merck yes.
How easy it was to find restaurant serves, you know, restaurant it's serve telling meat soup, especially in the in the summertime, and it Believe that Dogg gives you keeps your body temper regulated. So it was everywhere. And and then the fifth farms were enormous. They were just... There were so smaller ones segment we went to couple's all and we reviewed. Mac and May and then soul an older retriever. And people talk had to shit dude. I
think we planted them there. They didn't think there being in the retriever at a dog plant. And they thought the video was, like, sage to unbelievable what people over the shit people talked. But it was good terrific There's so many doctors there there. Just the horrible conditions. And, you know, all you can help to do is is, you know, I played kind of a west
like expose. Right we're I my camera the video camera Right at Gopro, and my job is to kind of get them to get us dogs, you know, Stare the shout, Na Kim the guy which she knew everything about the rules, and the regulations to scare these people into And this is, like, polluting brown groundwater, noise solution. Stuff that you get site you pick for. So not actually having dogs, but Not necessarily illegal, to other stuff. And it was pretty horrific. I mean, it was
really horrific. A lot of the things we saw. And and I was just surprised that Japanese People some of the neighbors of the dog farm work were bread. Did they were they were pissed off and they didn't want them there, and they thought negatively bought it. Couple of them. It just kinda depends. It in cock, and you know. It's it's kinda like, you know, some people fly Jack lag proudly because of their there's several worse on heritage. And other people will being at the worst
in the world. Right. And they all they could live next door other, you know? Yeah. Wow, so what's your... What's your plan? Do you have a big plan? What's next? For everything. What's next is I wanna I wanna help rehab reevaluate dogs and people in 1 place. So I wanna have a wanna create a center where we can rehab people alongside dog. Just like, what happened with me. Yeah. So that's my goal. Awesome. This is data of breast for humans and dog. That that is my... That's my jam, my goal.
So if you... Have everything in my head. Repeat that. Was gonna say I have everything in my head and everything in my order to accomplish it. I just need to raise the money. Yeah. You ever do a fundraiser in Nashville, I can get you a handful of musicians that would totally be there for you. So just so you know. But that would be amazing. Yeah. You're you're in Nashville. Yeah. I'm in Nashville national. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've never been. They're good thing. Oh, it's a good town. Good food.
It's fun. It's it's it's growing exponentially. It's it's a little nutty. But, yeah, it's flawed to do with Let's c. Yeah. I love go. Again. Come on. Come on. So do you think that the u 7 years ago would have could have wrapped his head around the u now? 7 years ago. Right? Out. 8, almost 8. 8. That's a good question. I I don't think no part of me thought Would be raising dogs so and working with
at alcoholic. I mean, soon after I got into sobriety, I knew that even my sobriety was working other people, but I didn't know that I would be doing it. You know, that that that that would be what makes me happy. That it is what truly like, you know, stokes my fire is is working with other people that are struggling thing. I I don't I don't... I feel quite a alive I do... Because you just... You that's when you because it's hard for me to stay grateful.
I can't just... I don't wake up. I don't go to Bed grade. But when I work with, maybe it's not weird, but probably a lot of ego related. But I when I work with somebody who's struggling, I remember what I'd like to struggle. And and and then if it's all it's all there, it all make sense, You know, and that, and then I tangible. I don't just feel grateful. And that part of whatever mind me know, you know. That is difficult for me to be just happy.
I have to be I have to be active to be happy at my like, default, you know, frequency isn't necessarily stoked. You know, I'm I have to be doing something to... I have to be an action to be half... Yeah. It's a good thing to know about yourself? Sometimes, you know, I like to say sometimes you're in the very last place you look. Yeah. Yeah. A good 1. The where it is. Yeah. Thank you so much for talking on the podcast. I really appreciate. You're absolutely welcome. Shoot me a
yeah. Thank you for the listeners, and please go to Marley dot org. And donate quarter. I'll put stuff. I'll put links up on my website too and, and do all that stuff, and, you know. Okay. Get the word out. And good luck with everything. Alright. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you very much for for taking the time the pleasure was mine, honestly. I'm just... I'm so happy that people like you exist in the world thank God, You know?
I mean, not just from the animal perspective, I mean, I'm super happy that there are dogs out there that who had no chance and now have a chance. But I'm glad a there are people out there as well. Same thing. I appreciate. Bye.